And maybe limit in vitro, too, for good measure.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/23/polish-lawmakers-anti-abortion-bill
QuotePolish lawmakers push on with near-total ban on abortion
Rightwing lawmakers are pushing ahead with a near-total ban on abortion in devoutly Catholic Poland, while rejecting a rival bid to liberalise an existing law which is already among the most restrictive in Europe.
The governing conservative Law and Justice (PiS) party, which controls parliament, has sent to committee a bill that would allow terminations only if the mother's life was at risk, and increase the maximum jail term for practitioners from two years to five.
The citizen's initiative tabled in parliament by the Stop Abortion coalition would also make mothers liable to prison terms, though judges could waive punishment.
Poland's influential Catholic church gave the initiative its seal of approval earlier this year, though its bishops have since opposed jailing women.
The head of Poland's KAI Catholic information agency, Marcin Przeciszewski, said he expected the PiS would axe the provision on jailing women during legislative work.
The proposal, which the Council of Europe called a "serious backsliding on women's rights", inspired several large pro-choice marches and a rival drive to liberalise the law that lawmakers struck down on Friday in its first reading.
Tabled by the Save Women pro-choice coalition, it would have allowed abortion until the 12th week of pregnancy.
Save Women activist Barbara Nowacka vowed on Friday to try again.
"Parliament doesn't want to talk about women's rights, dignity, a decent life, sex education or birth control, but that doesn't mean that we'll give up," she said.
Although the PiS generally favours banning abortion, its leaders are well aware that most Poles support the existing legislation.
Passed in 1993, the current law bans all terminations unless there was rape or incest, the pregnancy poses a health risk to the mother, or the foetus is severely deformed.
A poll published this week by the Newsweek Polska magazine showed that 74% of Poles want to keep the existing law.
The country of 38 million people sees less than 2,000 legal abortions a year, but women's groups estimate that another 100,000-150,000 procedures are performed illegally or abroad.
Lawmakers also sent to committee a PiS-proposed bill intended to limit in-vitro fertilisation (IVF), the treatment that involves fertilising an egg outside a woman's body to produce an embryo that can then be implanted in her womb.
The measure would notably make it illegal to freeze embryos, which its proponents say are human beings from the moment of fertilisation.
It would also only allow women to fertilise one egg at a time, thus considerably reducing the chances of a successful pregnancy.
From the WSJ:
QuoteDuring Thursday's opening debate, law professor Joanna Banasiuk defended the bill on behalf of its authors. "Abortion means a massacre of children," she said. "It means hell for women and moral discredit for men, first imposed by Hitler's thugs and then introduced by the Communist regime on a mass scale," she added, referring to the decision by Nazi German occupying forces during World War II to give Polish women access to abortion, a policy continued after the war.
Got raped by daddy and are pregnant? Well, it must have been God's will. Or maybe you shouldn't have worn those tight jeans.
Mart, if this law were to pass and was challenged in constitutional court, how long to a decision? Is the court still deadlocked?
Jesus is king.
I don't think even if the constitutional tribunal was fully operational (it still isn't) this would be declared unconstitutional. The tribunal has been pretty conservative even under the previous government, and other than banning abortion even if pregnancy poses a threat to the mother's life, its past case law points into the direction of this being declared constitutional (they have ruled the fetus to be human life before).
I don't think this government/majority would pass that law, though. They risk alienating too many of Poles, who are not as religious as people think (and think sex ethics is something which happens to other people - gays, transgendereds etc.).
Anyway, gynecologists in Czech Republic, Slovakia and Eastern Germany must be delighted.
Regressive Catholics will do as they do. And on Sunday, they go engage in ritual cannibalism as they literally (not figuratively) feast on their Lord's flesh and blood. Yum.
Quote from: Hamilcar on September 23, 2016, 01:10:15 PM
Regressive Catholics will do as they do. And on Sunday, they go engage in ritual cannibalism as they literally (not figuratively) feast on their Lord's flesh and blood. Yum.
... but aren't these your people now? Regressive Conservatives? I mean, sure, these ones have a Catholic and Polish flavour to them, but otherwise isn't that your team now?
Quote from: Jacob on September 23, 2016, 01:26:04 PM
... but aren't these your people now? Regressive Conservatives? I mean, sure, these ones have a Catholic and Polish flavour to them, but otherwise isn't that your team now?
Cute.
Quote from: Hamilcar on September 23, 2016, 01:28:54 PM
Quote from: Jacob on September 23, 2016, 01:26:04 PM
... but aren't these your people now? Regressive Conservatives? I mean, sure, these ones have a Catholic and Polish flavour to them, but otherwise isn't that your team now?
Cute.
:hug:
Quote from: Martinus on September 23, 2016, 12:25:40 PM
Anyway, gynecologists in Czech Republic, Slovakia and Eastern Germany must be delighted.
Sounds like 98% of Poles already go abroad for them.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 23, 2016, 05:53:39 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 23, 2016, 12:25:40 PM
Anyway, gynecologists in Czech Republic, Slovakia and Eastern Germany must be delighted.
Sounds like 98% of Poles already go abroad for them.
Would
you trust the competency of a Polish doctor? That'd be almost as bad as letting Marti represent you in a legal matter. Or hiring Timmay to tutor your kids in English.
Quote from: dps on September 23, 2016, 05:56:27 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on September 23, 2016, 05:53:39 PM
Quote from: Martinus on September 23, 2016, 12:25:40 PM
Anyway, gynecologists in Czech Republic, Slovakia and Eastern Germany must be delighted.
Sounds like 98% of Poles already go abroad for them.
Would you trust the competency of a Polish doctor?
If you live in the UK, Ireland or Scandinavia, apparently you already have little choice not to.
Quote from: Martinus on September 23, 2016, 12:25:40 PM
Anyway, gynecologists in Czech Republic, Slovakia and Eastern Germany must be delighted.
The article mentions that abortion is already banned except in cases where the pregnancy was a result of rape or incest, the life of the mother is at risk, or the fetus is deformed. Under the new law, the life of the mother exception would stay.
Is rape and incest really so common in poland? I don't think fetal deformity is so common - I wouldn't think this would be such a windfall for your neighboring gynecologists.