Languish.org

In 1972 a crack commando unit was sentenced to prison in a military court for a crime they didn't commit. These men promptly escaped from a maximum security stockade to the Los Angeles underground. Today, still wanted by the police, they survive as soldiers of fortune. If you have a problem, and no one else can help, maybe you can hire THE A-TEAM

The A-Team is a show about a former special forces group who broke out of jail and became freedom fighters as they continue to run from the army.  In the show authority figures are made to look like incompetent buffoons and corporations are almost always wicked.  I think the show is usually regarded by Americans as right wing; because of the massive amount of ammo used and because of the underlying hatred for all sorts of authority implied in the episode.  I was wondering how the show is viewed by other nations or cultures; if that sort of hatred of authority is thought of as right-wing outside the United States.

and just like right wingers, they looked at their one minority as nothing more as muscle; a grunt. You never saw Hannibal asking BA for his opinion.

And just like Republicans, when they saw shifting demographics in America, they picked up their token hispanic to be their little pet nigger to keep that brown tail of America wagging ignorantly yet happily.

It was a sexist show.  I loved it as a kid.

My cell phone ringtone is the guitar section of the A-Team theme song, complete with machine gun and explosion sound effects. :smoke:

Well, I think it was a special kind of "right wing" I guess, maybe you could call it "libertarian" really. It was anti-authoritarian, but pro-gun and shit. It wasn't the neocon rightwing - more like "shoot down UN black helicopters" kind of right wing. :P

Holy crap, Marty said something that made sense!

Quote from: derspiess on June 29, 2009, 01:58:00 PM
Holy crap, Marty said something that made sense!

The A-Team brings out the best in all of us.   :)

Quote from: Savonarola on June 29, 2009, 02:02:20 PM

Quote from: derspiess on June 29, 2009, 01:58:00 PM
Holy crap, Marty said something that made sense!

The A-Team brings out the best in all of us.   :)

Don't you just love it when a plan comes together? :smoke:

Quote from: Martinus on June 29, 2009, 01:54:13 PM
Well, I think it was a special kind of "right wing" I guess, maybe you could call it "libertarian" really. It was anti-authoritarian, but pro-gun and shit. It wasn't the neocon rightwing - more like "shoot down UN black helicopters" kind of right wing. :P

The show almost always depicted corporations as evil; I'd have a hard time seeing it as libertarian.  Though maybe it was libertarian-socialist.

Quote from: Savonarola on June 29, 2009, 02:05:37 PM
The show almost always depicted corporations as evil; I'd have a hard time seeing it as libertarian.  Though maybe it was libertarian-socialist.

Maybe libertarian-anarchist. Kinda like Chaotic Good.  ;)

It was a Frontier show and thus uniquely American in its outlook. It is «libertarian» if the Frontier can be called that, which doesn't care about socialism / capitalism: it cares about individuals making their way out of their good natured (there were Frontier socialists, like Saint-Simon, just like Frontier hard-core individualists). Corporations are evil because they are faceless and do not care about the little people, just like the big ranchers, or the railroad companies. Government is evil because it deceives and corrupts. In the end, you can only rely on friends, families and your guns to protect what is right: your small property, of course, but also honour and justice. It was a modern Western.

Quote from: Oexmelin on June 29, 2009, 02:14:35 PM
It was a Frontier show and thus uniquely American in its outlook. It is «libertarian» if the Frontier can be called that, which doesn't care about socialism / capitalism: it cares about individuals making their way out of their good natured (there were Frontier socialists, like Saint-Simon, just like Frontier hard-core individualists). Corporations are evil because they are faceless and do not care about the little people, just like the big ranchers, or the railroad companies. Government is evil because it deceives and corrupts. In the end, you can only rely on friends, families and your guns to protect what is right: your small property, of course, but also honour and justice. It was a modern Western.

I didn't wake up today expecting to read an insightful analysis of the A-Team. :D Good post.

I don't think it was right-wing at all, really. It was quite 'anti-authoritarian', and so I wouldn't say it was right-wing, since the right-wing is *usually* associated with being pro-authority.

Quote from: Oexmelin on June 29, 2009, 02:14:35 PM
It was a Frontier show and thus uniquely American in its outlook. It is «libertarian» if the Frontier can be called that, which doesn't care about socialism / capitalism: it cares about individuals making their way out of their good natured (there were Frontier socialists, like Saint-Simon, just like Frontier hard-core individualists). Corporations are evil because they are faceless and do not care about the little people, just like the big ranchers, or the railroad companies. Government is evil because it deceives and corrupts. In the end, you can only rely on friends, families and your guns to protect what is right: your small property, of course, but also honour and justice. It was a modern Western.

Why is it that French intellectuals (and...uh...allied peoples) seem to understand Americans way better than anyone in America does?

Maybe because Americans are at heart Frog wannabes. It is hard to be as annoying as our neighbors without speaking their damned language and burning our trucks, though.

I can't remember the plot to a single A Team episode. :huh:

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 29, 2009, 06:03:19 PM
I can't remember the plot to a single A Team episode. :huh:

Well if you ever manage to remember the plot to a single episode You'll be glad to know it works for all episodes.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 29, 2009, 06:03:19 PM
I can't remember the plot to a single A Team episode. :huh:

There was this hilarious one set in New Guinea where the A-Team was transporting a crystal skull back to the states and their plane crashed over the jungle.  A native tribe found it and, long story short, Murdock was worshipped as a God, a bunch of phony Catholic monks tried to steal it, and many explosions later, the skull was retrieved and the Team was only mildly yelled at by Robert Vaughn.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 29, 2009, 06:03:19 PM
I can't remember the plot to a single A Team episode. :huh:

Someone was in trouble with a criminal gang/evil business interest
They alert the A-Team by meeting with the leader, who is always disguised, or with their pet reporter
The A-Team shows up, but falls into a trap or somehow fails
The A-Team builds a ramshackle device to help them chase off the bad guys, along with some non-lethal gunplay
The A-Team escapes, usually right ahead of the army guys who are hunting them

The episode I outlined above doesn't fit that formula, but I think it was late in the show's run so maybe they were experimenting more in an effort to save the show.  That Mexican dude who they added late in the series was in it IIRC.

Fuck Robert Vaughn. That was Fake-Team.

I love wikipedia:

QuoteIn April 2009, Mr T was called for jury duty in Chicago. He showed up in court but was not chosen. Afterwards he signed autographs and posed for pictures

The A-Team was not right wing (they organized a labour union in one episode) nor left wing (they fought Nazis in one episode) they were entertainment and a means of dealing with the Trauma of Vietnam. They were good guys treated badly after they returned after honourable service. They suffered persecution with good grace. They had their own little dolchstoss to deal with like it seems every vet feels he did.

I read the first review by the Guardian of the A-Team which did a marxian review of the tv show. It's a show about good guys doing good things, and these guys self identify with the Vietnam Vets.

What does left wing have to do with fighting nazis? :mellow:

I'm left wing and I fight derspiess almost every damn day.

Quote from: Neil on June 29, 2009, 06:10:26 PM

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 29, 2009, 06:03:19 PM
I can't remember the plot to a single A Team episode. :huh:

Someone was in trouble with a criminal gang/evil business interest
They alert the A-Team by meeting with the leader, who is always disguised, or with their pet reporter
The A-Team shows up, but falls into a trap or somehow fails
The A-Team builds a ramshackle device to help them chase off the bad guys, along with some non-lethal gunplay
The A-Team escapes, usually right ahead of the army guys who are hunting them

Between falling into a trap or somehow failing and building the device; the A-Team was invariably locked in The Tool Shed.  You would have thought villains would have watched a couple episodes of that and learned not to lock MacGyver up in the tool shed.

Quote from: Caliga on June 29, 2009, 06:14:52 PM
The episode I outlined above doesn't fit that formula, but I think it was late in the show's run so maybe they were experimenting more in an effort to save the show.  That Mexican dude who they added late in the series was in it IIRC.

They switched things around a lot in the last season.  Then they were working for the army as they waited for their pardons to come through.

No group of conservative vigilante's in the early 70's had a black guy in their ranks.

Quote from: Razgovory on June 30, 2009, 12:22:46 AM
No group of conservative vigilante's in the early 70's had a black guy in their ranks.

The Avengers?

They weren't State sanctioned 'till the late seventies.

Quote from: Iormlund on June 29, 2009, 06:00:50 PM
Maybe because Americans are at heart Frog wannabes. It is hard to be as annoying as our neighbors without speaking their damned language and burning our trucks, though.

I thought the French had their revolution because they were American wannabes.  ;)

Quote from: Neil on June 29, 2009, 06:10:26 PM

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 29, 2009, 06:03:19 PM
I can't remember the plot to a single A Team episode. :huh:

Someone was in trouble with a criminal gang/evil business interest
They alert the A-Team by meeting with the leader, who is always disguised, or with their pet reporter
The A-Team shows up, but falls into a trap or somehow fails
The A-Team builds a ramshackle device to help them chase off the bad guys, along with some non-lethal gunplay
The A-Team escapes, usually right ahead of the army guys who are hunting them

And every show there were a few car accidents where the cars invariably hit something with their wheels on one side of the car and landed on their roofs...  <_<

It was a stupid, stupid show.  All that wasted munitions, and not a single person ever died.  Golden Girls had a bigger body count.
And I rooted for the evil Colonel looking for them, because he was vested with the power of the government.

Fuck the A-Team.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 30, 2009, 04:06:00 AM
It was a stupid, stupid show.  All that wasted munitions, and not a single person ever died.  Golden Girls had a bigger body count.
And I rooted for the evil Colonel looking for them, because he was vested with the power of the government.

Fuck the A-Team.

:blink:

Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 30, 2009, 04:06:00 AM
It was a stupid, stupid show.  All that wasted munitions, and not a single person ever died.  Golden Girls had a bigger body count.
And I rooted for the evil Colonel looking for them, because he was vested with the power of the government.

Fuck the A-Team.

lots of people died, they just were all shot off camera... and in the opening sequence.

Quote from: Jaron on June 30, 2009, 04:08:14 AM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 30, 2009, 04:06:00 AM
It was a stupid, stupid show.  All that wasted munitions, and not a single person ever died.  Golden Girls had a bigger body count.
And I rooted for the evil Colonel looking for them, because he was vested with the power of the government.

Fuck the A-Team.

:blink:

FUCK THE A-TEAM.

I can't remember the A-Team having a coherent political agenda.

Quote from: Warspite on June 30, 2009, 06:11:05 AM
I can't remember the A-Team having a coherent political agenda.

They didn't. But they were pro-military and pro-guns. So they must be right wing.

Quote from: Warspite on June 30, 2009, 06:11:05 AM
I can't remember the A-Team having a coherent political agenda.

That never stopped anyone from being right wing; Mussolini didn'thave a coherent political agenda.

Quote from: Savonarola on June 30, 2009, 06:30:22 AMThat never stopped anyone from being right wing; Mussolini didn'thave a coherent political agenda.

Sure he did: rebuild the Roman Empire.  Not that it was even remotely realistic, but it had coherence in at least that respect.

Quote from: Viking on June 30, 2009, 06:30:07 AM

Quote from: Warspite on June 30, 2009, 06:11:05 AM
I can't remember the A-Team having a coherent political agenda.

They didn't. But they were pro-military and pro-guns. So they must be right wing.

They weren't pro-military, though, the army is their principle (if incompetent) antagonist throughout the show.

Quote from: Savonarola on June 30, 2009, 07:08:22 AM

Quote from: Viking on June 30, 2009, 06:30:07 AM

Quote from: Warspite on June 30, 2009, 06:11:05 AM
I can't remember the A-Team having a coherent political agenda.

They didn't. But they were pro-military and pro-guns. So they must be right wing.

They weren't pro-military, though, the army is their principle (if incompetent) antagonist throughout the show.

And they were pro-guns in the same way a carpenter is pro-saws.

Quote from: Palisadoes on June 29, 2009, 05:46:35 PM
I don't think it was right-wing at all, really. It was quite 'anti-authoritarian', and so I wouldn't say it was right-wing, since the right-wing is *usually* associated with being pro-authority.

Not in the United States it isn't.  Authoritarianism is embraced or opposed in the US by both the Right and the Left.

Things were different in the 1970's:  sex was clean and the air was dirty.  Most large business were greedy and not very honorable.   The A Team set things right.  I don't believe they were right wing at all.

Quote from: citizen k on June 29, 2009, 02:11:48 PM

Quote from: Savonarola on June 29, 2009, 02:05:37 PM
The show almost always depicted corporations as evil; I'd have a hard time seeing it as libertarian.  Though maybe it was libertarian-socialist.

Maybe libertarian-anarchist. Kinda like Chaotic Good.  ;)

:yes: This is what'd I'd say based on my hazy memory of that show. do gooders, but fuckups at the rest of life, the whole bunch.

Well, the actors who played Murdock and Face are very conservative.  The actor who played Hannibal was very liberal.  Mr. T is, well, Mr. T.

ahum?

Quote from: I Killed Kenny on June 30, 2009, 04:11:14 PM
ahum?

I was just pointing out the political affiliations of the four actors on the A-Team.

Quote from: Savonarola on June 30, 2009, 07:08:22 AM

Quote from: Viking on June 30, 2009, 06:30:07 AM

Quote from: Warspite on June 30, 2009, 06:11:05 AM
I can't remember the A-Team having a coherent political agenda.

They didn't. But they were pro-military and pro-guns. So they must be right wing.

They weren't pro-military, though, the army is their principle (if incompetent) antagonist throughout the show.

They were pro-lion, not pro-donkey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjvkS0bqx70&

Ridiculous.

I just died a little inside.

Depressingly generic.

Quote from: Savonarola on June 29, 2009, 02:05:37 PM

Quote from: Martinus on June 29, 2009, 01:54:13 PM
Well, I think it was a special kind of "right wing" I guess, maybe you could call it "libertarian" really. It was anti-authoritarian, but pro-gun and shit. It wasn't the neocon rightwing - more like "shoot down UN black helicopters" kind of right wing. :P

The show almost always depicted corporations as evil; I'd have a hard time seeing it as libertarian.  Though maybe it was libertarian-socialist.

You are wrong. You are taking real world right wing alliances (which is to the big business) for the right-wing narrative. The right wing narrative values the enterpreneurial spirit and "salt of the earth" approach but it does not necessarily see big corporations that way - the "suits" are just another form of bureaucracy that is depicted negatively in the right winger narrative.

Quote from: Palisadoes on June 29, 2009, 05:46:35 PM
I don't think it was right-wing at all, really. It was quite 'anti-authoritarian', and so I wouldn't say it was right-wing, since the right-wing is *usually* associated with being pro-authority.

It was not "fascist", but anti-authoritarianism is one of the tenets (even if only paid a lip-service to) of the American conservatism. Ever heard of the "small government" thing? It's rightwingers that are championing it.

Quote from: Oexmelin on June 29, 2009, 02:14:35 PM
It was a Frontier show and thus uniquely American in its outlook. It is «libertarian» if the Frontier can be called that, which doesn't care about socialism / capitalism: it cares about individuals making their way out of their good natured (there were Frontier socialists, like Saint-Simon, just like Frontier hard-core individualists). Corporations are evil because they are faceless and do not care about the little people, just like the big ranchers, or the railroad companies. Government is evil because it deceives and corrupts. In the end, you can only rely on friends, families and your guns to protect what is right: your small property, of course, but also honour and justice. It was a modern Western.

Well, yeah, but I was operating under an assumption (which I thought was universally shared) that "Western" is a right wing genre. Apparently a lot of people do not share this view. Strange.

Considering how many westerns have evil capitalists (ranchers, railroad barons and other shady businessmen exploiting the peasants or workers) as villains I think applying the term "right wing" to the whole genre is too broad a brush.

Quote from: Syt on January 10, 2010, 04:38:59 AM
Considering how many westerns have evil capitalists (ranchers, railroad barons and other shady businessmen exploiting the peasants or workers) as villains I think applying the term "right wing" to the whole genre is too broad a brush.

See, that's where you are wrong. They weren't exploiting workers - they were always exploiting/swindling/blackmailing smaller (and "real", "salt-of-the-earth" type) entrepreneurs and farmers (not "peasants" - "farmers" - important difference). Westerns weren't anti-capitalist - they embraced capitalism and capitalist work ethics. Corporations were evil not because they were "evil capitalists" but because they represented the detached elites who were debauched, corrupt and did not share that ethics.

I would say that this kind of anti-elitism plays a very important role in American conservatism (there is a reason Bush had a "farm" in Texas, even though he is a bred New England aristocrat, essentially) and also to some extent in the European one.

Quote from: Martinus on January 10, 2010, 04:42:50 AM
I would say that this kind of anti-elitism plays a very important role in American conservatism (there is a reason Bush had a "farm" in Texas, even though he is a bred New England aristocrat, essentially) and also to some extent in the European one.

It wasn't a "farm" it was a "ranch." :alberta:

Quote from: Savonarola on June 29, 2009, 02:05:37 PM

Quote from: Martinus on June 29, 2009, 01:54:13 PM
Well, I think it was a special kind of "right wing" I guess, maybe you could call it "libertarian" really. It was anti-authoritarian, but pro-gun and shit. It wasn't the neocon rightwing - more like "shoot down UN black helicopters" kind of right wing. :P

The show almost always depicted corporations as evil; I'd have a hard time seeing it as libertarian.  Though maybe it was libertarian-socialist.

The A-Team didn't really have politics. One episode they fight for the union, the next they fight against one. Then they fight for a business and the next episode they fight against one. Not to go all chuck norris, the A-Team was for fairness and justice and against injustice and malice. Sometimes it comes from the left, sometimes for the right.

One commentator would try to tar the A-Team as Right wing imperialists because of their use of weapons, violence and army methods, the next commentator would tar them as left wing because they were running from the US Army (for a crime they didn't commit). They are neither, they are just Good Guys and Good Guys don't have personality traits that might turn people off.

I've never seen A-Team so they can do as they please with it.

Quote from: Jaron on June 29, 2009, 01:23:36 PM
and just like right wingers, they looked at their one minority as nothing more as muscle; a grunt. You never saw Hannibal asking BA for his opinion.

And just like Republicans, when they saw shifting demographics in America, they picked up their token hispanic to be their little pet nigger to keep that brown tail of America wagging ignorantly yet happily.

BA was a Sergent. The rest were officers.  Of course his opinion didn't matter in the highly classist society of the 70's. 

Holy crap...Martinus is dead-on correct on this one.

Of course, it's just A-Team political analysis, but still.

No, they don't kill and army baaaad.

Quote from: Tonitrus on January 10, 2010, 01:46:54 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjvkS0bqx70&

Ridiculous.

Jesus Tittyfucking Christ, I hate Hollywood.

QuoteA group of Iraq War veterans looks to clear their name with the U.S. military, who suspect the four men of committing a crime for which they were framed.

Should've worked for Blackwater instead.  CASE DISMISSED

Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 10, 2010, 08:36:23 AM

QuoteA group of Iraq War veterans looks to clear their name with the U.S. military, who suspect the four men of committing a crime for which they were framed.

Should've worked for Blackwater instead.  CASE DISMISSED

:lol:

That trailer makes the movie look like cutting room floor scenes from Transformers. I am so worried that my childhood is about to be raped.

The herky jerky seizure inducing trailers of today usually make me not want to watch a movie.

The special effects looked stupid.  Even the theme music seemed watered down.  This is a movie I'll have to watch only after it shows up oin Hulu.

Quote from: Tonitrus on January 10, 2010, 07:26:23 AM
Holy crap...Martinus is dead-on correct on this one.

Of course, it's just A-Team political analysis, but still.

Nope, he is as wrong as usual.  Look at Oex's analysis for the correct version.  Marti is just doing his best to make sure that the average European's intelligence sounds average.

American Westerns in general are classic "European liberal" constructs:  what is important is the individual and the individual's values, not groups or group values (whether gangs or businesses).

Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 10, 2010, 10:07:05 AM
The herky jerky seizure inducing trailers of today usually make me not want to watch a movie.

The special effects looked stupid.  Even the theme music seemed watered down.  This is a movie I'll have to watch only after it shows up oin Hulu.

Agreed.  The only reason they are calling this generic bit of work "The A-Team" is that they think it will sell a few more tickets.  This version is gonna clearly be about bad special effects, with a few "classic" memes just to remind us that it is a remake.

And Liam Neeson looked absolutely horrid.  What did they do to him?

Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 10, 2010, 11:41:39 AM
And Liam Neeson looked absolutely horrid.  What did they do to him?

He's going through a rough patch.  Be glad his self-destruction is limited to this, and not at the bottom of a whiskey bottle.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 10, 2010, 12:27:38 PM

Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 10, 2010, 11:41:39 AM
And Liam Neeson looked absolutely horrid.  What did they do to him?

He's going through a rough patch.  Be glad his self-destruction is limited to this, and not at the bottom of a whiskey bottle.

Yeah.  Can't blame him though.  He really seemed to love his wife.   :(

Quote from: PRC on June 29, 2009, 01:37:08 PM
It was a sexist show.  I loved it as a kid.

All shows of that era were sexist.

Quote from: Caliga on June 29, 2009, 06:14:52 PM
The episode I outlined above doesn't fit that formula, but I think it was late in the show's run so maybe they were experimenting more in an effort to save the show.  That Mexican dude who they added late in the series was in it IIRC.

just watched this one on Hulu.  Apparently tyhis was the last season, and I think the producers changed or something, so the direction of the show changed to them being tools of the government instead of freelance terrorists.

Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on January 10, 2010, 01:59:53 PM

Quote from: Caliga on June 29, 2009, 06:14:52 PM
The episode I outlined above doesn't fit that formula, but I think it was late in the show's run so maybe they were experimenting more in an effort to save the show.  That Mexican dude who they added late in the series was in it IIRC.

just watched this one on Hulu.  Apparently tyhis was the last season, and I think the producers changed or something, so the direction of the show changed to them being tools of the government instead of freelance terrorists vigilantes.

FYP.  we free-lancers don't like the term "terrorists" because we don't even scare people.