http://www.wsj.com/articles/turkey-police-raid-tv-stations-of-government-critics-1446038925
QuoteTurkey Police Shutter TV Stations of Government Critics
Part of recent clampdown on news organizations that criticize president and ruling party
ISTANBUL—Turkish authorities on Wednesday stormed and shuttered a television station and a news channel that have been critical of the government ahead of an election Sunday, as officials expanded a probe of an alleged coup plot against President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
Turkey's recent clampdown on news organizations criticizing Mr. Erdogan and the long-ruling Justice and Development Party, or AKP, has sparked public and international outcry. Antigovernment protesters have been staging sporadic demonstrations to support freedom of speech, and were camped outside the two television stations Wednesday in an effort to prevent authorities from seizing the channels.
The police arrived at about 4 a.m. at KanalTurk television in Istanbul, dispersing protesters with pepper gas, breaking chains mounted at the main entrance and briefly shutting off the broadcast. Officials simultaneously raided the Bugun TV news channel, unsuccessfully attempting to take over the broadcast by entering its control room. After a half-day stand-off, authorities sealed off the premises and marched into the control room at about 4:30 p.m. to take both channels offline during a joint live broadcast
"This is called a police state," said Baris Yarkadas, a lawmaker with the main-opposition Republican People's Party, or CHP, who arrived at Bugun TV during the raid. He compared Wednesday's moves to coups in Turkey's recent past, when military juntas would dictate media coverage, and said: "We are witnessing the police entering news organizations, delivering declarations and taking over journalists' seats—just like junta periods."
Turkey's media clampdown comes just ahead of Sunday's snap polls—where the president and the government seek to regain the parliamentary majority they lost in June elections.
The two television stations, as well as three newspapers and a radio station, are owned by Koza Ipek Holding, which is accused of funneling money to a terrorist organization led by U.S.-based Turkish preacher Fethullah Gulen.
As part of a sweeping investigation, an Ankara court on Monday appointed a trustee to take control of the conglomerate, which is based in the capital and has interest ranging from gold mines to energy, media, food, tourism, insurance and education.
"The U.S. believes strongly that freedom of press [and] expression are universal rights. They are essential for healthy democratic societies," the U.S. Embassy in Ankara said on its official Twitter account Tuesday. "When there is a reduction in the range of viewpoints available to citizens, especially before an election, it is a matter of concern."
Wednesday's raids mark the latest push in a two-year crackdown against Mr. Gulen and his followers, who were allies of Mr. Erdogan throughout a decade of his three terms as prime minister.
But amid competing interests and following a corruption scandal that snared Mr. Erdogan's family and business colleagues, the Turkish leader dismissed the graft case as a coup plot and accused the influential imam and his religious network with seeking to overthrow him by establishing a "parallel state" and fomenting unrest.
"This is a different ideological fight under the guise of press freedom—in fact, the broadcasts are as if they are waging a war against the government," Deputy Prime Minister Yalcin Akdogan said late Tuesday, as the interim administration drew criticism for what the opposition said is the court's politically motivated decision to appoint a trustee to Ipek Koza Holding.
The government denies allegations that it is behind the operations, and Mr. Akdogan reiterated that the Gulen network is being investigated by an independent judiciary. Followers of the imam deny allegations that they arrange to topple or control the state. The alleged terrorist group led by Mr. Gulen is also listed as a top threat by Turkey's National Security Council, headed by Mr. Erdogan.
"If Tayyip Erdogan didn't stand up to them, they would have created a system to hold Turkey under their servitude," Mr. Akdogan said. "This parasitical structure needs be cleaned up."
Admittedly, the choice between Gülen and Erdogan is probably one between pestilence and cholera.
Don't worry, Raz told us there was nothing wrong with Turkey's democracy.
What's the reason behind the snap election? I mean, what's Erdogan's excuse? Not that there's anything wrong with Turkey's democracy.
Quote from: Liep on October 28, 2015, 01:22:56 PM
What's the reason behind the snap election? I mean, what's Erdogan's excuse? Not that there's anything wrong with Turkey's democracy.
I think there was no stable majority coalition after the last election, so they're having new ones. Escalating the conflict with the Kurds to weaken the Kurdish party which actually made it into parliament last time might help. And he's still looking for a majority to give the office of president more powers (it's meant to be mostly ceremonial).
http://www.englishpen.org/campaigns/international-editors-demand-protection-of-press-in-turkey/
QuoteInternational editors demand protection of press in Turkey
Leading editors call on President Erdoğan to ensure journalists are 'protected and allowed to do their work without hindrance'
More than 50 leading international media editors have written an open letter to President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan raising profound concerns about the deteriorating conditions for press freedom in Turkey in the run up to the elections this weekend.
The letter and a full list of signatories follow below.
Signatories include Dean Baquet, executive editor, the New York Times, Michèle Léridon, global news director, Agence France-Presse (AFP), Shane Smith, founder, VICE Media, Mario Calabresi, editor-in-chief, La Stampa, Wolfgang Krach, joint editor-in-chief, Süddeutsche Zeitung, David Remnick, editor, the New Yorker, Zaffar Abbas, editor, Dawn, Soe Myint, editor-in-chief, Mizzima Media Group, Vinod K Jose, executive editor, Caravan, Toyosi Ogunseye, editor, Sunday Punch and Martin Baron, executive editor, the Washington Post.
The editors list a series of attacks on journalists and media publications over the past two months that include: two attacks on the offices of the newspaper Hurriyet; the physical assault of leading journalist Ahmet Hakan Coskun; the seizure of Koza Ipek Media this week; the detention of three journalists working for Vice News (including Mohammed Ismael Rasool who is still in prison), as well as prosecutions and further arrests.
'We urge you to use your influence to ensure that journalists, whether Turkish citizens or members of the international press, are protected and allowed to do their work without hindrance,' they write. 'On the eve of an important election on 1 November, which will be of concern and interest to those in Turkey and internationally, the Turkish government's failure to support and to protect journalists where necessary is undermining the country's international reputation and damaging its standing as a democracy. We share widespread concerns that recent events are part of a concerted campaign to silence any opposition or criticism of the government in the run up to the election.'
The editors also raise their concerns about the rise of 'a culture of impunity' depriving journalists of the necessary safeguards to do their work as well as the government's failure to condemn attacks on journalists who are independent or critical.
Turkey is a state party to the European Convention on Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Turkey's 1982 Constitution makes the rights contained in these international instruments available to its citizens at home. All Turkish state institutions have an obligation to respect and to take steps to uphold the right to freedom of expression.
Dear President Erdoğan
We are writing to express our profound concern regarding the deteriorating conditions for press freedom in Turkey. We urge you to use your influence to ensure that journalists, whether Turkish citizens or members of the international press, are protected and allowed to do their work without hindrance.
Over the past two months, attacks and harassment of journalists have increased to an alarming degree. Incidents include: two attacks on the offices of the newspaperHurriyet, including one supported by a serving Member of the Turkish Parliament; the physical assault of leading journalist Ahmet Hakan Coskun following an organised campaign of threats led by press outlets sympathetic to the government and the President; the raid and seizure of Koza Ipek Media, known for being critical of the President; the detention of three journalists working for Vice News (including Mohammed Ismael Rasool who is still in prison), court cases against journalists and further arrests.
In this climate of intimidation, there is also the worrying rise of a culture of impunity which serves to deprive journalists of the necessary safeguards to do their essential work and leaves them vulnerable to bullying and even physical harm. The government's reluctance, and in some instances failure, to condemn attacks on journalists independent or critical of them is an especially alarming development.
On the eve of an important election on 1 November, which will be of concern and interest to those in Turkey and internationally, the Turkish government's failure to support and to protect journalists where necessary is undermining the country's international reputation and damaging its standing as a democracy. We share widespread concerns that recent events are part of a concerted campaign to silence any opposition or criticism of the government in the run up to the election.
We recognise that Turkey is facing a period of considerable tension. It is at such times that the role of a free press becomes ever more critical. Turkey is a state party to the European Convention on Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Turkey's 1982 Constitution makes the rights contained in these international instruments available to its citizens at home. All Turkish state institutions therefore have an obligation to respect and to take steps to uphold the right to freedom of expression. The media has long been recognised in international law as having an essential role to play as a watchdog.
As editors, we are dismayed to see individual journalists, along with publications and media groups, targeted in this way. We are increasingly concerned at the impact on reporting events in Turkey fully and accurately, both at home and abroad.
We urge you to foster a culture where press freedom is fully respected.
Zaffar Abbas, editor, Dawn, Pakistan
Mahfuz Anam, editor, Daily Star, Dhaka
Martin Baron, executive editor, the Washington Post, USA
Dean Baquet, executive editor, The New York Times, USA
Thomas Baumann, editor-in-chief, ARD German Television, Germany
Eniola Bello, managing director/ chief operating officer, THISDAY Newspaper Group, Nigeria
James Bennett, president and editor-in-chief, The Atlantic, USA
Ole Kristian Bjellaanes, managing editor, Norwegian News Agency (NTB), Norway
Erik Bjerager, editor-in-chief/managing director, Kristeligt Dagblad, Denmark
Mario Calabresi, editor-in-chief, La Stampa, Italy
David Callaway, editor-in-chief, USA Today, US
Kathleen Carroll, senior vice president and executive editor, the Associated Press, US
Antonio Caño, editor-in chief, El Pais, Spain
Michael Cooke, editor-in-chief, Toronto Star, Canada
Patrick Daniel, editor-in-chief English and Malay Newspapers Division, Singapore Press Holdings Ltd, Singapore
Montserrat Domínguez, editorial director, El Huffington Post, Spain
François Dufour, editor-in-chief, PlayBacPresse, France
Alexandra Föderl-Schmid, editor-in-chief, Der Standard, Austria
Janine Gibson, editor-in-chief, BuzzFeed UK
Daniel Hadad, CEO, Grupo Infobae, Argentina
Ferial Haffajee, editor-in-chief, City Press, South Africa
Andrew Holden, editor-in-chief, The Age, Australia
Vinod K Jose, executive editor, Caravan, India
Hiroshi Komatsu, chief editorial writer, the Mainichi Shimbun, Japan
Wolfgang Krach, joint editor-in-chief, Süddeutsche Zeitung, Germany
Imagen Laguna, former editorial director, El Siglo de Torreon, Mexico
Michèle Léridon, global news director, Agence France-Presse (AFP), France
Gwen Lister, founder, The Namibian, Chairperson of the Namibia Media Trust, Namibia
Lisa MacLeod, head of digital, Times Media, South Africa
Philip Mathew, managing editor, Malayala Manorama, India
Ezio Mauro, editor-in-chief, La Repubblica, Italy
Fred M'membe, editor-in-chief & managing director, Post Newspapers Limited, Zambia
Jason Mojica, VICE News, editor-in-chief, US
Tom Mosoba, managing editor, the Citizen, Tanzania
Soe Myint, editor-in-chief/managing director, Mizzima Media Group, Myanmar
Andrew Nachison, founder, We Media, US
Kaius Niemi, senior editor, Helsingin Sanomat, Finland
Anders Nyland, editor-in-chief, Bergensavisen, Norway
Joseph Odindo, media consultant, former editorial director, Nation Media Group, Kenya
Toyosi Ogunseye, editor, Sunday Punch, Nigeria
Torry Pedersen, editor-in-chief, VG, Norway
Jan-Eric Peters, editor-in-chief, WELT Group and N24 TV, Germany
Javier Garza Ramos, journalist, Mexico
N. Ravi, director, the Hindu, India
Marcelo Rech, executive director of journalism, RBS Group, Brazil
David Remnick, editor, the New Yorker, US
Jim Roberts, Mashable, executive editor & chief content officer, US
Rajdeep Sardesai, consulting editor, India Today Group
Ben Smith, Buzzfeed, editor-in-chief BuzzFeed, US
Shane Smith, founder, VICE Media
Zafar Sobhan, editor, Dhaka Tribune, Bangladesh
Elmar Theveßen, deputy editor-in-chief, ZDF German Television, Germany
Siddharth Varadarajan, founding editor, The Wire, India
John Yearwood, executive board chairman, International Press Institute
Making Turkey shit again:
QuoteTurkey detains editor, staff of leading opposition paper
"An accelerated descent into dictatorship" was how one journalist summed up the Oct. 31 raid on Cumhuriyet, one of a handful of surviving opposition outlets, which saw its editor-in-chief Murat Sabuncu detained along with several senior editors on alleged terror charges in Istanbul.
Those arrested at dawn this morning included cartoonist Musa Kart, veteran columnist Aydin Engin, chief financial officer Gunseli Ozaltay and editorial board member and columnist Kadri Gursel, who also writes for Al-Monitor.
Government spokesman Numan Kurtulmus insisted that the detentions did not target the paper's editorial staff but were linked to a probe into some of its shareholders.
In Ankara, hundreds of people gathered outside the newspaper's offices to protest the detentions, part of an ever-widening crackdown on alleged colluders in the July coup attempt.
"We stand shoulder-to-shoulder against the regime," the crowds chanted.
"We will not surrender," the newspaper declared on its website.
The move triggered sharp rebukes from Turkish and Western politicians alike. The leader of the main opposition Republican People's Party, Kemal Kilicdaroglu, accused the government of exploiting the July 15 coup attempt to mount a "counter-coup" of its own. Martin Schulz, the president of the European Parliament — of which Turkey is a member — asserted in a tweet, "The detention of Murat Sabuncu and other Cumhuriyet journalists is yet another red-line crossed against freedom of expression in Turkey."
But such talk is unlikely to faze Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who seems bent on suppressing all his opponents real and perceived as he bulldozes his path to what he calls a Turkish-style executive presidency and his critics call "one-man rule."
The climate of repression enveloping Turkey is such that many journalists were left airing their outrage over Cumhuriyet through private messages for fear of losing their jobs.
The raid on Cumhuriyet came a day after the government used its emergency powers to purge a further 9,000-odd civil servants, on top of the more than 100,000 already expelled. Another 14 mainly Kurdish media outlets were shut down, raising the total number of shuttered newspapers, journals, television channels, radio stations and online publications to nearly 200. At least 10,000 media workers are jobless and over 100 journalists are currently behind bars, more than in Russia, China and Iran combined. And these grim numbers seem destined to grow.
Under the new decrees, detainees on terror charges may be barred from access to their lawyers for up to six months if they are deemed to be pursuing criminal activities through their communications with them. All conversations between lawyers and detainees are to be recorded. The government says it's working to reintroduce the death penalty, which would effectively kill Turkey's languishing bid for full membership of the European Union. Meanwhile, the co-mayors of Diyarbakir, Turkey's largest Kurdish majority city, were arrested on Oct. 29, which marked Republic Day, on charges of promoting the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK).
Allegations that Cumhuriyet had in its coverage colluded with Fethullah Gulen, the Sunni Muslim cleric blamed for the coup attempt as well as with the PKK were greeted with derision. Turkey's oldest newspaper, whose title means "Republic" in a nod to Turkey's founder and first president, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, and its militantly secular readers, has been one of the fiercest critics of Gulen and his shadowy religious network for decades.
Its approach to the Kurdish problem has been more mixed, with a new generation of columnists like Gursel advocating greater rights for Turkey's estimated 15 million Kurds. The old guard fiercely opposes peace talks with the PKK on the grounds that it would lead to Turkey's dismemberment.
Many of Turkey's leading journalists, including Sedat Ergin, the editor-in-chief of Turkey's most influential newspaper, Hurriyet, cut their teeth as cub reporters at Cumhuriyet. Unlike its mass-circulation rivals, which seek to snare readers with photos of scantily clad women, Cumhuriyet espouses a determinedly highbrow tone. And just as unusually, it is not owned by a business conglomerate but by a constellation of shareholders, of which the largest is a foundation composed of the journalists themselves.
"Cumhuriyet is really the only major paper left standing that reports news, rather than simply reprinting talking points," observed Aaron Stein, a Turkey expert at The Atlantic Council, a Washington-based think tank.
Pressure has been growing on the newspaper since two of its leading columnists, Hikmet Cetinkaya and Ceyda Karan, defended the French satire magazine Charlie Hebdo by illustrating their articles with its cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad. In April, the two were sentenced to two years in prison for fomenting "hatred and enmity" and have faced a barrage of death threats. Cetinkaya, who has not yet began his sentence, was among those detained.
Last year, Can Dundar, the paper's former editor-in-chief, was sentenced to five years and 10 months in prison for allegedly revealing state secrets.
Erdogan warned Dundar that he would pay "a heavy price" for the paper's May 2015 report on a shipment of arms that were allegedly being funneled by the Turkish government to Syrian jihadists. Dundar, who together with his Ankara bureau chief Erdem Gul spent three months in pre-trial detention, is living in exile in Germany. Dundar left after surviving an assassination attempt outside the courthouse where he was being tried.
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2016/10/turkey-opposition-paper-cumhuriyet-detained-crackdown-coup.html#ixzz4OghOE2wt
Two things occur to me:
1. The more he cracks down the more fragile his regime becomes. That might extend the instability and chaos from the ME into Turkey.
2. I am somewhat relieved to hear there was still an opposition newspaper to suppress in 2016. Hopefully there are several more out there.
Well three things I guess:
3. This is probably our fault somehow.
This kind of anti-Muslim extremism, demanding that a democratic Muslim country conform to western ideals of democracy and freedom, is exactly the kind of intolerance and bigotry organizations like the SPLC and Seedy fight tirelessly to stamp out. While Edrogan might have some enemies in the US, he can rest assured that he has faithful friends as well, willing to blackball and stifle those who would oppose his efforts to expand religious tolerance by expanding the reach and influence of Islam by whatever means are necessary.
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2016, 07:22:13 AM
3. This is probably our fault somehow.
You forgot to mention racist Europeans. :thumbsdown:
Quote from: Berkut on November 01, 2016, 08:05:04 AM
This kind of anti-Muslim extremism, demanding that a democratic Muslim country conform to western ideals of democracy and freedom, is exactly the kind of intolerance and bigotry organizations like the SPLC and Seedy fight tirelessly to stamp out. While Edrogan might have some enemies in the US, he can rest assured that he has faithful friends as well, willing to blackball and stifle those who would oppose his efforts to expand religious tolerance by expanding the reach and influence of Islam by whatever means are necessary.
Don't strain yourself, Mr. Trump.
Actually Berkut was in favor of letting in more Syrian refugees.
LOL OTTOMON EMPIRE
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2016, 07:22:13 AM
2. I am somewhat relieved to hear there was still an opposition newspaper to suppress in 2016. Hopefully there are several more out there.
Report I saw indicated he got the last one.
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2016, 10:00:17 AM
Actually Berkut was in favor of letting in more Syrian refugees.
Only if they are atheists.
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2016, 10:00:17 AM
Actually Berkut was in favor of letting in more Syrian refugees.
This is a fact free zone. Stop that.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 01, 2016, 10:04:17 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2016, 07:22:13 AM
2. I am somewhat relieved to hear there was still an opposition newspaper to suppress in 2016. Hopefully there are several more out there.
Report I saw indicated he got the last one.
I see. 2016 continues to deliver.
Erdogan is building up quite a coalition against him.
Quote from: Berkut on November 01, 2016, 10:10:14 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2016, 10:00:17 AM
Actually Berkut was in favor of letting in more Syrian refugees.
This is a fact free zone. Stop that.
Clearly, Viper set the tone by telling a lie about me.
Quote from: Razgovory on November 01, 2016, 10:12:49 AM
Quote from: Berkut on November 01, 2016, 10:10:14 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2016, 10:00:17 AM
Actually Berkut was in favor of letting in more Syrian refugees.
This is a fact free zone. Stop that.
Clearly, Viper set the tone by telling a lie about me.
That is a rich complaint coming from the person who claimed about ten seconds ago that I wanted to limit Syrian refugees to only atheists.
Quote from: Berkut on November 01, 2016, 10:20:58 AM
That is a rich complaint coming from the person who claimed about ten seconds ago that I wanted to limit Syrian refugees to only atheists.
So you agree with Viper's statement? Or do you believe lying if fine if it's about me?
Quote from: Razgovory on November 01, 2016, 10:43:24 AM
Quote from: Berkut on November 01, 2016, 10:20:58 AM
That is a rich complaint coming from the person who claimed about ten seconds ago that I wanted to limit Syrian refugees to only atheists.
So you agree with Viper's statement? Or do you believe lying if fine if it's about me?
I have no opinion on vipers statement one way or the other. I didn't even think about it for more than the nanosecond it took to read it, you will have to take up his characterization of your position on Turkey with him...whether he feels it is a fair characterization or not is not that interesting to me.
However, regardless of that, you knew perfectly well that you were saying something that was simply not true, and you said it anyway.
You get to own your own dishonesty regardless of vipers statement.
Maybe viper was lying or not, but there is no doubt that you were.
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT
It's nice to know that Lies spread about me are not even worth thinking about. I really don't put anything past you Berkut. Not one goddamn thing. Only wanting Atheists is something entirely within your character. You are an intolerant, self-righteous asshole.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.startrek.com%2Fuploads%2Fassets%2Farticles%2Ffight5.jpg&hash=e076d887200b8109588b37458e8711d0fddeec03)
That post from Viper was from 2015, if that helps diffuse the situation any.
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2016, 11:07:32 AM
That post from Viper was from 2015, if that helps diffuse the situation any.
SHUT UP
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2016, 11:07:32 AM
That post from Viper was from 2015, if that helps diffuse the situation any.
Why would we want to spread the trouble to other threads? :hmm:
Quote from: Razgovory on November 01, 2016, 11:03:38 AM
It's nice to know that Lies spread about me are not even worth thinking about.
An interesting way to interpret my response. I clearly stated I didn't think about it when asked whether I thought it was a lie, hence I cannot possibly be saying I don't care about lies. I certainly have no idea what I thought about a comment made over a year ago, while your lie was posted just a few minutes ago...
Quote
I really don't put anything past you Berkut.
That's nice. You seem very angry at me in particular because you think viper lied. That seems rather oddly misplaced. Are you super mad at everyone else at Languish who didn't ride in to your defense as well, or is it just me?
We do know that I am the only one you made a conscious decision to lie about though.
It is almost like your lie isn't really connected to viper at all....
Quote
Not one goddamn thing.
How about one not goddamn thing?
Why are you so angry that you are a liar?
Your own lying is completely under your own control.
Quote
Only wanting Atheists is something entirely within your character.
Being an expert on my own character, I can assure you that this is entirely incorrect. This won't stop you from repeating it of course, but do know that when you do you will be lying. Again.
More to the point however, I never said anything of the kind, hence we know, and you know, you were lying.
Quote
You are an intolerant, self-righteous asshole.
This at least is opinion, which you have every right to, of course. I am very content knowing that you think so.
I won't make a similar personal attack, but I think you have a pretty good idea of my opinion about you and your honesty.
I don't think you know what the word lie means, Berkut.
Quote from: Razgovory on November 01, 2016, 11:12:29 AM
I don't think you know what the word lie means, Berkut.
So you are claiming that I did in fact only support letting in Syrian refuges who were atheists?
Or are you saying that you honestly thought that was my position, but now realize that you were completely wrong and came to that conclusion based on your own prejudices and inability to understand simple words and meanings?
Quote from: Habbaku on November 01, 2016, 11:08:33 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2016, 11:07:32 AM
That post from Viper was from 2015, if that helps diffuse the situation any.
Why would we want to spread the trouble to other threads? :hmm:
Whoops :blush:
DEFUSE not diffuse :lol:
Berkut, just let it go.
Quote from: Tamas on November 01, 2016, 12:53:31 PM
Berkut, just let it go.
There isn't anything for me to "let go", I don't think.
Raz lied, he pretty much admitted he lied, it's all good. Life goes on - it's not like we learned anything new by this in any case.
Quote from: Berkut on November 01, 2016, 12:57:49 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 01, 2016, 12:53:31 PM
Berkut, just let it go.
There isn't anything for me to "let go", I don't think.
Raz lied, he pretty much admitted he lied, it's all good. Life goes on - it's not like we learned anything new by this in any case.
You are down some lifespan unnecessarily. I'd recommend the grumbler approach to raz.
Quote from: grumbler on November 01, 2016, 01:08:12 PM
Quote from: Berkut on November 01, 2016, 12:57:49 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 01, 2016, 12:53:31 PM
Berkut, just let it go.
There isn't anything for me to "let go", I don't think.
Raz lied, he pretty much admitted he lied, it's all good. Life goes on - it's not like we learned anything new by this in any case.
You are down some lifespan unnecessarily. I'd recommend the grumbler approach to raz.
True enough.
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2016, 10:12:02 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 01, 2016, 10:04:17 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2016, 07:22:13 AM
2. I am somewhat relieved to hear there was still an opposition newspaper to suppress in 2016. Hopefully there are several more out there.
Report I saw indicated he got the last one.
I see. 2016 continues to deliver.
Erdogan is building up quite a coalition against him.
Erdogan has a huge fifth column all over Europe willing to use violence to make sure he gets his heart's desire.
The rest of the scenario writes itself...
"we" (the West) needs Turkey and thus Erdogan who runs the show there, for the foreseeable future.
So nothing will happen in terms of outside pressure, if Turkey wants real democracy, the Turks will have to do it themselves. Good luck to them.
Quote from: Berkut on November 01, 2016, 11:29:58 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 01, 2016, 11:12:29 AM
I don't think you know what the word lie means, Berkut.
So you are claiming that I did in fact only support letting in Syrian refuges who were atheists?
Or are you saying that you honestly thought that was my position, but now realize that you were completely wrong and came to that conclusion based on your own prejudices and inability to understand simple words and meanings?
For me to tell a lie, I must knowingly say something that I don't believe to be true. What you "want" can't be objectively known as it is entirely internal, there for anything I say about what you want is my opinion. My statement was informed by your contempt for religion and slavish devotion to an Islamaphobe Sam Harris. Originally the statement was just an off-hand snide comment (the same as anyone gets), but it really seems to have hit a nerve. If you don't want to be the recipient of such statements stop posting stuff from Islamaphobic authors, stop justifying their statements, and stop defending them.
Got it, you are doubling down on being a liar.
Not surprised.
Quote from: Berkut on November 01, 2016, 02:38:00 PM
Got it, you are doubling down on being a liar.
Not surprised.
Got it, you don't understand shit.
Does anyone, truly?
Quote from: The Brain on November 01, 2016, 02:54:07 PM
Does anyone, truly?
I would expect Berkut to, considering where he keeps his head.
Lolzors. Raz really doesn't like being caught in his lie, does he?
Quote from: Berkut on November 01, 2016, 02:59:11 PM
Lolzors. Raz really doesn't like being caught in his lie, does he?
Demonstrate where I lied.
Tell you what. I will be willing to concede I was wrong in my statement about you, Berkut, if you clarify your opinion of Muslims.
Berkut doesn't like religion but he doesn't seem to dislike the people. I mean he has noting but contempt for my religion but treats me fine.
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2016, 03:36:22 PM
Berkut doesn't like religion but he doesn't seem to dislike the people. I mean he has noting but contempt for my religion but treats me fine.
Battered much?
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2016, 11:07:32 AM
That post from Viper was from 2015, if that helps diffuse the situation any.
I'm impressed Berkut can read a dozen words in a nanosecond.
Quote from: The Brain on November 01, 2016, 03:42:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2016, 03:36:22 PM
Berkut doesn't like religion but he doesn't seem to dislike the people. I mean he has noting but contempt for my religion but treats me fine.
Battered much?
Languish and I have always had an abusive relationship :(
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2016, 03:36:22 PM
Berkut doesn't like religion but he doesn't seem to dislike the people. I mean he has noting but contempt for my religion but treats me fine.
So it's not a personal attack then. Just business.
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2016, 03:36:22 PM
I mean he has noting but contempt for my religion but treats me fine.
yeah, that's reassuring. A true psycho would make you believe he cares about your religion before slaughtering you. He's only half pretending. :ph34r:
Turkey Police? Is this something Thanksgiving-related?
Quote from: Martinus on November 02, 2016, 01:20:08 AM
Turkey Police? Is this something Thanksgiving-related?
Puerile, but not cunty. The streak continues.
Quote from: Syt on October 28, 2015, 01:31:40 PM
Quote from: Liep on October 28, 2015, 01:22:56 PM
What's the reason behind the snap election? I mean, what's Erdogan's excuse? Not that there's anything wrong with Turkey's democracy.
I think there was no stable majority coalition after the last election, so they're having new ones. Escalating the conflict with the Kurds to weaken the Kurdish party which actually made it into parliament last time might help. And he's still looking for a majority to give the office of president more powers (it's meant to be mostly ceremonial).
With the last critical press outlets being forced into submission, the time to neutralize the political opposition has now come. The HDP leadership and a number of MPs have been arrested today.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37868441 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37868441)
Turkey is sure melting down its democracy and becoming something more like a tyranny. So sad.
I am still happily riding my "I told you so!" train from, what, 2011?
:showoff:
That seems like a strange "I told you so!" to be happy about.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on November 01, 2016, 08:16:17 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2016, 07:22:13 AM
3. This is probably our fault somehow.
You forgot to mention racist Europeans. :thumbsdown:
Oh you are right: it is entirely the EU's doing:
"The MPs of the only democratic, truly secular, pro-diversity, pro-women, pro-ecology, pro-LGBT rights, pro-freedom party in Turkey are being arrested. All of this is happening because the EU is selling itself to Turkey. They are all criminals. There is no way left for the Kurds than to defend themselves to the end. Nobody has the right to tell them to refrain from protecting their will and existence. Resistance, resistance, resistance!"
- Dilar Dirik, some kind of Kurdish commentator
You guys are the real criminals here. Stop being so damn pro-Turkish.
No matter what you do somebody in that area will think you probably deserve to die.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/11/03/world/europe/ap-eu-turkey-germany.html
QuoteTurkish Leader Slams Germany for Wavering on Extraditions
ISTANBUL — Turkey's president harshly criticized Germany on Thursday, accusing the country of supporting terrorism and slamming comments by Germany's justice minister suggesting that Berlin may not extradite suspects wanted by Turkey in cases it considers politically motivated.
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan attacked comments by German Justice Minister Heiko Maas, who said Berlin could refuse to extradite cases related to the "so-called (post-coup) cleansing that is taking place."
Maas was referring to the mass arrests, firings of civil servants and news media closures that have accompanied Turkey's clampdown on the movement led by U.S.-based Muslim cleric Fethullah Gulen. Turkey accuses Gulen of masterminding a failed coup in July that left over 270 people dead. Gulen has denied knowledge of the coup attempt.
Slamming Germany's hesitation to return prosecutors suspected of being members of the Gulen movement, Erdogan accused Germany of having "become a shelter" for terrorists and for having no regard for other countries' national security issues.
"You will forever go down in history for supporting terrorism," he declared.
Erdogan also blasted German criticism of the post-coup crackdown.
"The German minister said they were watching the operations against terrorism-supporting newspapers with alarm," he said. "Well, we are watching Germany's stance and its subsequent policies with alarm— no, with horror."
Erdogan's comments come a day after German Chancellor Angela Merkel criticized Turkey's detention Monday of senior staff at the opposition Cumhuriyet newspaper, saying the situation was "highly alarming."
German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said he did not "at all" understand Erdogan's comments about Germany supporting terrorism. Speaking Thursday in Berlin, he said Germany's desire to maintain close relations with Turkey "cannot lead us to be shy of speaking our minds if, from our point of view, there is a danger to freedom of the press and opinion."
In addition to demanding the extradition of suspects abroad, Turkey has arrested almost 37,000 people and dismissed or suspended over 100,000 personnel from government jobs.
Opposition parties, human rights groups and international allies have all criticized Ankara for using the failed coup to clamp down not only on alleged coup plotters, but on all government critics including pro-Kurdish and left-wing individuals and media outlets.
Erdogan invited German officials to tour the Turkish Parliament, which was hit by jets on the night of the coup.
"I wonder what they would do if their Parliament had been bombed," he said.
Turkish justice minister Bozdag is meanwhile quoted saying that Germany has no rights to criticize Turkey, that the Turkish justice system is as neutral and independent as the German system, and that the rights of Turks in Germany only exist on paper ("If you're a Turk in Germany, you have no rights at all!")
Quote"I wonder what they would do if their Parliament had been bombed," he said.
Well last time they gave total power over to a fascist dictator. That has generally been considered a bad idea. Just saying Turkey.
Quote from: Valmy on November 04, 2016, 07:47:17 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on November 01, 2016, 08:16:17 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2016, 07:22:13 AM
3. This is probably our fault somehow.
You forgot to mention racist Europeans. :thumbsdown:
Oh you are right: it is entirely the EU's doing:
"The MPs of the only democratic, truly secular, pro-diversity, pro-women, pro-ecology, pro-LGBT rights, pro-freedom party in Turkey are being arrested. All of this is happening because the EU is selling itself to Turkey. They are all criminals. There is no way left for the Kurds than to defend themselves to the end. Nobody has the right to tell them to refrain from protecting their will and existence. Resistance, resistance, resistance!"
- Dilar Dirik, some kind of Kurdish commentator
You guys are the real criminals here. Stop being so damn pro-Turkish.
No matter what you do somebody in that area will think you probably deserve to die.
Both Turcophobic and pro-Turkish: brilliant! :worthy: :D
Quote from: Valmy on November 04, 2016, 07:55:08 AM
Quote"I wonder what they would do if their Parliament had been bombed," he said.
Well last time they gave total power over to a fascist dictator. That has generally been considered a bad idea. Just saying Turkey.
you can't help but wonder if those turkish fasco's are totally oblivious.
that said: let's hope our security services are paying close attention to the turkish communities.
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on November 04, 2016, 08:02:27 AM
Both Turcophobic and pro-Turkish: brilliant! :worthy: :D
Yet, at the same time, not Turcophobic and pro-Turkish enough :hmm: