Finally :)
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/nsa-snooping/deal-renew-patriot-act-surveillance-powers-stalls-senate-n367431
:yeah:
Thank you Rand Paul!
:thumbsup:
That has to make he-who-shall-not-be-named proud.
I suppose Voldemort will probably have an easier time of it.
This sucks. How much did They spend on the data warehousing facility just to shut it down at the behest of quivering luddites?
Incidentally, agreeing with Rand Paul about anything more complex than "is breathing good" should be a warning sign.
:zzz
STAND WITH RAND
Quote from: Ideologue on June 01, 2015, 11:34:56 AM
This sucks. How much did They spend on the data warehousing facility just to shut it down at the behest of quivering luddites?
I wouldn't be concerned if you support surveillance. This victory was symbolic at best for my team.
If I understand it correctly Paul only delayed the passage of a Bill that has wide support while the Senate takes a one week break?
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2015, 11:43:16 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on June 01, 2015, 11:34:56 AM
This sucks. How much did They spend on the data warehousing facility just to shut it down at the behest of quivering luddites?
I wouldn't be concerned if you support surveillance. This victory was symbolic at best for my team.
True, reacting more to the sentiment. MAH METADATAS
So even completely useless douchebags can do good.
I loathe that fucktard with passion.
I'm sure he's deeply hurt by your feelings.
What is the big knock on Paul, other than his crazy dad?
There's an "R" next to his name.
Quote from: derspiess on June 01, 2015, 04:21:17 PM
There's an "R" next to his name.
That just drives McConnell crazy.
Quote from: Berkut on June 01, 2015, 04:20:48 PM
What is the big knock on Paul, other than his crazy dad?
He has said some vaguely anti-gay things, like he's "offended" by gay marriage (but wants civil unions for homosexual couples--just not marriage). Also, I suspect they disagree with his strident, limited-government stands on most issues.
Quote from: derspiess on June 01, 2015, 04:21:17 PM
There's an "R" next to his name.
That's certainly part of it.
Quote from: Berkut on June 01, 2015, 04:20:48 PM
What is the big knock on Paul, other than his crazy dad?
The same reason Habbuku likes him. He's a man who watches Mad Max and says, "Yeah, that's a good idea!".
Raz swoops in with his usual degree of lucidity.
Libertariansm is a contemptible cult, and should be stamped out when ever it rears it's serpentine head.
Enlightening, as always, Raz.
Quote from: Berkut on June 01, 2015, 04:20:48 PM
What is the big knock on Paul, other than his crazy dad?
Wiki offered me up several things:
Opposes gun control legislation
Opposes the department of education
Opposed the Employment Non-Discrimination Act because he wanted to include religious exemptions
Thinks vaccinations should be voluntary
Wants more money spent on physical barriers and drones to secure the border
Embraces the line of you can have gay marriage but don't call it marriage
Would like a federal ban on abortion
Seems to think the free market is the tonic for our many ills (which appears to include the Federal Reserve)
Would like to deny citizenship to children born to illegal immigrants in the US
Quote from: Habbaku on June 01, 2015, 06:33:10 PM
Enlightening, as always, Raz.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHUs1EV3QvA
I can let them speak for themselves.
Quote from: garbon on June 01, 2015, 06:38:47 PM
Would like to deny citizenship to children born to illegal immigrants in the US
I like this idea.
Quote from: Berkut on June 01, 2015, 04:20:48 PM
What is the big knock on Paul, other than his crazy dad?
What's the difference between him and crazy dad, other than the haircut and a apparent willingness to compromise on isolationism?
Quote from: Razgovory on June 01, 2015, 06:54:29 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on June 01, 2015, 06:33:10 PM
Enlightening, as always, Raz.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHUs1EV3QvA
I can let them speak for themselves.
This is why people ignore you.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 01, 2015, 06:56:12 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 01, 2015, 04:20:48 PM
What is the big knock on Paul, other than his crazy dad?
What's the difference between him and crazy dad, other than the haircut and a apparent willingness to compromise on isolationism?
Abortion.
Quote from: Habbaku on June 01, 2015, 07:00:39 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 01, 2015, 06:54:29 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on June 01, 2015, 06:33:10 PM
Enlightening, as always, Raz.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHUs1EV3QvA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHUs1EV3QvA)
I can let them speak for themselves.
This is why people ignore you.
It's hard to convince a cultist.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 01, 2015, 06:55:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 01, 2015, 06:38:47 PM
Would like to deny citizenship to children born to illegal immigrants in the US
I like this idea.
Violates the 14th amendment and is unamerican bullshit to boot.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 01, 2015, 07:02:15 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on June 01, 2015, 07:00:39 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 01, 2015, 06:54:29 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on June 01, 2015, 06:33:10 PM
Enlightening, as always, Raz.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHUs1EV3QvA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHUs1EV3QvA)
I can let them speak for themselves.
This is why people ignore you.
It's hard to convince a cultist.
Nothing like non stop ad homs to convince someone. I'm sorry I bothered to try to get you to realize why people ignore you.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 01, 2015, 07:02:40 PM
Violates the 14th amendment and is unamerican bullshit to boot.
I'm almost certain the Constitution can be amended. As to it being unamerican bullshit, that's negotiable.
The person who ignores me is Grumbler, he started because I started to quote previous statements that contradicted his current ones. Grumbler does not like being corrected. Rather then admit being wrong, he chose to ignore the problem and encouraged others to ignore me as well. If anyone else is ignoring me, they can speak up. Berkut sometimes does, and that was the result of me pointing out that "SS" symbol is not a stylized "SS" but Armean runes. I don't think he's mad about that anymore, but who can tell?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 01, 2015, 07:08:57 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 01, 2015, 07:02:40 PM
Violates the 14th amendment and is unamerican bullshit to boot.
I'm almost certain the Constitution can be amended.
Yes . But.
This is the 14th amendment we are talking about here. That is a pretty big deal to amend. It's not like tinkering with the Presidential succession or allowing 18 year olds to vote.
Also I can't think of an amendment that ever removed a fundamental right like that.
Habbaku, you want a serious answer? I will tell you why I hold libertarianism in contempt. At the basis of almost all libertarian ideas that I've seen the fundamental flaw of seeing freedom and liberty opposed to law and government as if it were some sort of sliding scale. From this basic misunderstanding leads to tyranny, murder, and slavery. A man without government is free from the interference of others only so long as his neighbors suffer him to be so.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 01, 2015, 07:01:45 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 01, 2015, 06:56:12 PM
What's the difference between him and crazy dad, other than the haircut and a apparent willingness to compromise on isolationism?
Abortion.
Aren't they both against?
I don't believe Ron Paul is.
http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/abortion/ (http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/abortion/)
He is.
Ah, so he for letting the states decide who is and isn't a person. Not atypical of that breed.
Quote from: garbon on June 01, 2015, 06:38:47 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 01, 2015, 04:20:48 PM
What is the big knock on Paul, other than his crazy dad?
Wiki offered me up several things:
Opposes gun control legislation
Opposes the department of education
Opposed the Employment Non-Discrimination Act because he wanted to include religious exemptions
Thinks vaccinations should be voluntary
Wants more money spent on physical barriers and drones to secure the border
Embraces the line of you can have gay marriage but don't call it marriage
Would like a federal ban on abortion
Seems to think the free market is the tonic for our many ills (which appears to include the Federal Reserve)
Would like to deny citizenship to children born to illegal immigrants in the US
So he is one of those "I'm a libertarian except for the things I don't like" libertarians?
Yeah seems as much.
Quote from: celedhring on June 02, 2015, 08:13:30 AM
So he is one of those "I'm a libertarian except for the things I don't like" libertarians?
It is complicated :P
I think his crowd are minarchists.
Quote from: garbon on June 01, 2015, 06:38:47 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 01, 2015, 04:20:48 PM
What is the big knock on Paul, other than his crazy dad?
Wiki offered me up several things:
Opposes gun control legislation
Opposes the department of education
Opposed the Employment Non-Discrimination Act because he wanted to include religious exemptions
Thinks vaccinations should be voluntary
Wants more money spent on physical barriers and drones to secure the border
Embraces the line of you can have gay marriage but don't call it marriage
Would like a federal ban on abortion
Seems to think the free market is the tonic for our many ills (which appears to include the Federal Reserve)
Would like to deny citizenship to children born to illegal immigrants in the US
I like most of that.
Great?
Monstrous!
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 01, 2015, 07:08:57 PM
I'm almost certain the Constitution can be amended. As to it being unamerican bullshit, that's negotiable.
Really? The child didn't get the choice between being born here and being born in, say, Panama. If someone is born into a community, they should be able to interact with said community. Screwing with child welfare is radioactive, and even most Republicans try to repaint the issue to avoid being associated with it.
That said, I can see the flip side of the argument, that it incentivizes digging in until a baby is born, so the baby will be a US citizen (I think in those situations, it's more a case of "we're doing this for the kid" than the "anchor baby" BS that was spouted a couple years ago). But that's why this issue persists- there's no easy answer without huge repercussions.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 01, 2015, 07:08:57 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 01, 2015, 07:02:40 PM
Violates the 14th amendment and is unamerican bullshit to boot.
I'm almost certain the Constitution can be amended. As to it being unamerican bullshit, that's negotiable.
Sure, being certain something is possible is very different from it being probable. And that distinction is part of the reason Rand is a nutcase.
Quote from: garbon on June 02, 2015, 09:33:31 AM
Great?
Yeah, it is great. Thanks for acknowledging.
Quote from: derspiess on June 02, 2015, 10:42:44 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 02, 2015, 09:33:31 AM
Great?
Yeah, it is great. Thanks for acknowledging.
And you wonder why people think you are a right wing nutcase :P
That's my role here.
Quote from: derspiess on June 02, 2015, 10:56:21 AM
That's my role here.
:hug:
You are not filled with sufficient constant irrational rage to really fill that niche though.
Quote from: Berkut on June 01, 2015, 04:20:48 PM
What is the big knock on Paul, other than his crazy dad?
He seems to combine the worst of his dad and his party. Whereas his dad was a nut, but a largely principled nut, Rand mixes and matches incoherently like most "libertarians".
Quote from: Valmy on June 02, 2015, 10:59:39 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 02, 2015, 10:56:21 AM
That's my role here.
:hug:
You are not filled with sufficient constant irrational rage to really fill that niche though.
I can fake it.
Quote from: DGuller on June 02, 2015, 11:11:14 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 01, 2015, 04:20:48 PM
What is the big knock on Paul, other than his crazy dad?
He seems to combine the worst of his dad and his party. Whereas his dad was a nut, but a largely principled nut, Rand mixes and matches incoherently like most "libertarians".
IOW, Rand is actually a true politician, unlike Ron.
Quote from: derspiess on June 02, 2015, 09:27:45 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 01, 2015, 06:38:47 PM
Quote from: Berkut on June 01, 2015, 04:20:48 PM
What is the big knock on Paul, other than his crazy dad?
Wiki offered me up several things:
Opposes gun control legislation
Opposes the department of education
Opposed the Employment Non-Discrimination Act because he wanted to include religious exemptions
Thinks vaccinations should be voluntary
Wants more money spent on physical barriers and drones to secure the border
Embraces the line of you can have gay marriage but don't call it marriage
Would like a federal ban on abortion
Seems to think the free market is the tonic for our many ills (which appears to include the Federal Reserve)
Would like to deny citizenship to children born to illegal immigrants in the US
I like most of that.
aka Pat Robertson.