Go get 'em John! :menace:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jun/19/north-korea-ship-weapons-us
Quote
US destroyer on course to search suspected North Korean arms ship
• UN sanctions do not permit forcible boarding
• Hawaii defences beefed up over fear of missile launch
* Ewen MacAskill in Washington
* guardian.co.uk, Friday 19 June 2009 22.17 BST
Tension was growing in the Pacific today as the US navy prepared to intercept a North Korean cargo ship suspected of carrying weapons in defiance of a United Nations ban.
The US navy has been tracking the Kang Nam since it left a North Korean port on Wednesday.
It would be the first ship to be intercepted since the UN last week imposed sanctions on North Korea as punishment for conducting an underground nuclear test last month. The sanctions ban the import and export of nuclear material, missiles and all other weapons other than small arms.
A destroyer, the USS John McCain (named after the father of the Republican senator and failed presidential candidate, who was an admiral), was awaiting orders to intercept the ship off the Chinese coast. The UN sanctions allow the US to hail a North Korean ship and demand to be allowed to conduct a search, but not to forcibly board it.
North Korea has said a forcible search would be regarded as an act of war.
Reflecting heightened tension, the US yesterday began moving radar systems and ground-to-air missiles to Hawaii. The Pentagon said it fears Pyongyang could test-fire an intercontinental missile in the direction of Hawaii over the next few weeks in retaliation for the UN sanctions.
US officials designated the Kang Nam as being of "special interest" soon after it left port.
If the North Koreans refuse to allow a US crew to search the ship, the US could order it into the nearest port. Failing that, the John McCain could closely follow the ship until it reaches port. The US would then be entitled to demand, under the UN sanctions agreement, that that country inspect the ship.
Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, told reporters at the Pentagon: "Without going into specific details, clearly we intend to vigorously enforce the UN security council resolution."
Republicans, including John McCain, have criticised the UN resolution for being too weak because it does not make such searches at sea mandatory.
McCain on Tuesday described interceptions without mandatory searches as "a half measure" and called for a tougher response. "Those ships should be stopped and searched if there is probable cause," he said.
But Mullen said the US would first try "hail and query" and if that failed, direct the ship to a port where the country would be required to inspect the vessel. He refused to confirm that the Kang Nam was the ship being tracked or to say what the ship might be carrying.
Robert Gates, the US defence secretary, sitting alongside Mullen, told reporters he was taking seriously the possibility of a North Korean missile launch in the direction of the US. "We're obviously watching the situation in the North, with respect to missile launches, very closely," he said. "And we do have some concerns, if they were to launch a missile to the east, in the direction of Hawaii."
Gates has ordered the deployment of anti-ballistic missiles to the islands. The THAAD (Theatre High-Altitude Area Defence) missiles do not carry warheads but are intended to collide with incoming missiles. He has also directed that an array of floating radars be positioned round Hawaii, to track incoming missiles.
"So, without telegraphing what we will do, I would just say, we are – I think we are – in a good position, should it become necessary to protect American territory," Gates said.
In contrast with Iran and other foreign policy hotspots where the Obama administration is pursuing a softly-softly approach, it is toughening its position towards North Korea, frustrated that Pyongyang rebuffed diplomatic overtures and incentives offered by the Bush administration.
Washington wants Pyongyang to return to the negotiating table to discuss the decommissioning of facilities aimed at creating nuclear weapons.
Remember the Pueblo!
QuoteThe UN sanctions allow the US to hail a North Korean ship and demand to be allowed to conduct a search, but not to forcibly board it.
Stop, or we'll say stop again.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 20, 2009, 05:47:34 PM
QuoteThe UN sanctions allow the US to hail a North Korean ship and demand to be allowed to conduct a search, but not to forcibly board it.
Stop, or we'll say stop again.
Come now. There's no problem so serious that it requires action be taken.
The John McCain could be in real trouble if the Koreans turn the tables and tell them to put their hands up... :w00t:
Quote from: Jaron on June 21, 2009, 02:21:39 AM
The John McCain could be in real trouble if the Koreans turn the tables and tell them to put their hands up... :w00t:
:lol: That's just wrong.
Quote from: Jaron on June 21, 2009, 02:21:39 AM
The John McCain could be in real trouble if the Koreans turn the tables and tell them to put their hands up... :w00t:
:lmfao: This would be a POTM nom if we were still doing that.
Prior to this, a Chinese submarine ran into McCain's towed sonar array:
http://rokdrop.com/2009/06/17/update-on-chinese-submarine-collision-with-us-navy-sonar-array/
QuoteThe Stars & Stripes has more information about that collision a Chinese submarine had with a US Navy sonar array:
The USS John S. McCain arrived Monday at Sasebo Naval Base following damage at sea to the ship's multi-function towed-array sonar, Navy officials said.
A Navy spokesman would not confirm whether the Arleigh Burke-class destroyer sustained damage after the sonar array collided with a Chinese submarine Thursday, as multiple media outlets reported.
"We do not discuss detailed operational capabilities or locations of our ships," 7th Fleet spokesman Cmdr. Jeff Davis said.
He did say the McCain was operating in international waters and conducting routine operations. The McCain's home port is Yokosuka Naval Base, about 750 miles by land from Sasebo.
The Associated Press reported that a senior researcher with the People's Liberation Army's Navy Equipment Research Center, Yin Zhuo, said the collision was likely an accident. He said the American destroyer appeared to have failed to detect the submarine, while the Chinese vessel set its distance from the McCain assuming it was not carrying sonar arrays, according to the state-run China Daily.
A towed array is a long cable with hydrophones that is trailed behind a ship. It allows sonar technicians on both surface and submarine ships to hear vessels, aquatic life and other sounds within range.
According to a CNN report Friday, an unnamed U.S. military official attributed the array damage to an "inadvertent encounter" with a Chinese submarine.
The submarine did not strike the USS McCain's hull, according to the CNN report.
Philippine Defense Undersecretary Alberto Valenzuela said the incident occurred about 144 miles from Subic Bay in the northwestern Philippines, outside the country's territory, The Associated Press reported Monday.
That would place the incident within the South China Sea, which includes a submarine base built in recent years at Hainan Island.
"The base appears large enough to accommodate a mix of attack and ballistic missile submarines and surface combatant ships," according to "Military Power of the People's Republic of China," a report prepared by the Defense Department for Congress in March.
The base gives the Chinese navy access to important sea lanes and "offers the potential for stealthy deployment of submarines into the South China Sea," according to the report. [Stars & Stripes]
The important thing to take from this is that it did happen in international waters and it appears that the submarine was following the US ship and I have to assume the US ship must have picked up some kind of sonar signature from the submarine to cause it to deploy its sonar array which then struck the submarine. What I am wondering is, who picks up the bill for repairing the sonar array?
Clearly nuclear retaliation is in order.
I guess the Chinese discovered the achilles heel in our sonar defenses. Raming them with submarines.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 21, 2009, 11:40:21 PM
I guess the Chinese discovered the achilles heel in our sonar defenses. Raming them with submarines.
They got that from the Russians, too.
QuoteThe Associated Press reported that a senior researcher with the People's Liberation Army's Navy Equipment Research Center, Yin Zhuo, said the collision was likely an accident. He said the American destroyer appeared to have failed to detect the submarine, while the Chinese vessel set its distance from the McCain assuming it was not carrying sonar arrays, according to the state-run China Daily.
They almost certainly know Burkes have towed arrays. More likely the sub skipper had no idea how long it was, or how far he actually was from the ship. Or, if you want to be really paranoid, he was trying to get tangled in it to capture a sample of American sonar technology. :tinfoil:
Quote from: Razgovory on June 21, 2009, 11:40:21 PM
I guess the Chinese discovered the achilles heel in our sonar defenses. Raming them with submarines.
"Defenses?" What was the sonar "defending" against? Ramming? It isn't nearly maneuverable enough to stop a ramming attempt.
Having said that, this was clearly an accident. No sub skipper has the 'nads to deliberately risk getting tangled in a tow cable and achieving that magic Pk of -1.
Quote from: vonmoltke on June 21, 2009, 11:46:16 PM
They almost certainly know Burkes have towed arrays.
They are not streamed regularly any more, though.
Quote from: grumbler on June 21, 2009, 11:48:27 PM
Quote from: vonmoltke on June 21, 2009, 11:46:16 PM
They almost certainly know Burkes have towed arrays.
They are not streamed regularly any more, though.
The more I think about it, the more I think the Chinese sub skipper was probably trying to tail the
McCain in her baffles, but the
McCain suspected she was being tailed and streamed the array right into the Chinese boat.
Didn't know the bit about US ships not regularly using the towed array anymore, though. I figured when in proximity to a place like China where they were likely to be tailed they'd use it more often.
Quote from: vonmoltke on June 21, 2009, 11:46:16 PM
QuoteThe Associated Press reported that a senior researcher with the People's Liberation Army's Navy Equipment Research Center, Yin Zhuo, said the collision was likely an accident. He said the American destroyer appeared to have failed to detect the submarine, while the Chinese vessel set its distance from the McCain assuming it was not carrying sonar arrays, according to the state-run China Daily.
They almost certainly know Burkes have towed arrays. More likely the sub skipper had no idea how long it was, or how far he actually was from the ship. Or, if you want to be really paranoid, he was trying to get tangled in it to capture a sample of American sonar technology. :tinfoil:
Or the McCain, knowing it couldn't dump torpedos on the sub deliberately tried to tangle the sub in a towed array. I presume it's cheaper to replace than a sub propeller?
Quote from: grumbler on June 21, 2009, 11:46:49 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 21, 2009, 11:40:21 PM
I guess the Chinese discovered the achilles heel in our sonar defenses. Raming them with submarines.
"Defenses?" What was the sonar "defending" against? Ramming? It isn't nearly maneuverable enough to stop a ramming attempt.
Having said that, this was clearly an accident. No sub skipper has the 'nads to deliberately risk getting tangled in a tow cable and achieving that magic Pk of -1.
Submarines, clearly. That's why the Chinese Sub had to ram it. It was the only way to be sure.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 22, 2009, 09:44:34 AM
Submarines, clearly. That's why the Chinese Sub had to ram it. It was the only way to be sure.
No submarine currently poses any threat to any US ship, and so US ships don't defend themselves against submarines any more than submarines defend themselves against US ships.
Quote from: Viking on June 22, 2009, 12:06:26 AM
Or the McCain, knowing it couldn't dump torpedos on the sub deliberately tried to tangle the sub in a towed array. I presume it's cheaper to replace than a sub propeller?
I don't think the McCain's CO would consider deliberately sinking an enemy submarine like that (and entangling the prop might do such a thing, as the submarine might well need propulsion to surface, depending on the conditions under which it was operating).
A towed array cable wouldn't actually damage the propeller, though. What it would do was smash and then freeze up the shaft bearings as the prop was entangled and stopped, and all that propulsion power is translated into lateral movement of the shaft. Shaft bearings are not hard to replace (they are replaced fairly frequently, in fact).