Not much hope in reversing this trend in time. :(
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/environment/widespread-fish-consumption-drives-fears-empty-oceans-n295556
QuoteAs doctors and health specialists urge us to eat more fish, environmentalists are warning that we may end up harvesting our favorite sea life to the brink and beyond. Some of the most popular varieties have already begun to decline precipitously, experts say. And that's with Americans eating less than half of what the U.S. government's dietary guidelines suggest.
So the question is, can we have our fish and eat them too?
The answer is a rather unsatisfying maybe.
Some of the most discouraging news on the fish front is the possibility that, if we don't change our ways, we may harvest fish into extinction. According to one frightening estimate, the oceans could be virtually emptied of fish by 2050, says Jillian Fry, project director of the Johns Hopkins Center for a Livable Future.
The push to eat more fish is based on research showing that the omega-3 fatty acids found in fish oil can help prevent heart disease, improve cognition in adults and aid in the brain development of babies.
Still, says Fry, "I'm not sure we should be even advising people to eat 8 oz. of fish per week. But we should at least include advice that people eat lower on the food chain: sardines, anchovies, herring. Those fish reproduce much faster and are a very healthy choice."
Not everyone is signing on to the 2050 date of doom. But experts do agree that many species are at risk. A recent study published in the journal Science warned that massive marine extinctions could be in our future if we don't clean up the environment and get smarter about how we harvest sea life. In the past four decades, ocean-going fish have declined overall by nearly 40 percent, researchers reported.
Dangers to the fish population notwithstanding, one thing that's unlikely to change is the advice that we should eat more fish. Along with being one of the few sources of omega-3 fatty acids, "fish is a healthy source of protein, minerals and vitamins," says Dr. Walter Willitt, a professor and chair of epidemiology at the Harvard T. H. Chan School of Public Health. But even health experts like Willitt realize that sustainability is a paramount concern. "We can't recommend that people in general increase fish consumption without paying attention to sustainability," Willitt says.
Fry's group has filed a comment with the Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee suggesting that sustainability issues should be considered in the creation of any future dietary guidelines.
While fish farming might seem to offer the perfect solution to the overharvesting problem, in its current state, it's deeply flawed from a sustainability standpoint, says Theresa Sinicrope Talley, a coastal specialist with the California Sea Grant Extension Program at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography at the University of California, San Diego. That's due to the food most fish farmers are feeding their stock: other fish.
"It doesn't have to be done that way," Willitt says. "We don't need to be feeding small fish to create big fish."
Until fish farmers start feeding fish plant-based foods, aquiculture won't be a real solution to the sustainability problem.
Which brings us back to the wild fish caught in the oceans.
On the plus side, Talley says, the U.S. has some of the strictest regulations when it comes to fishing.
The problem is, most of the fish Americans currently consume come from abroad.
"We are mostly eating other people's fish," says David Die, a research associate professor in the department of marine ecosystems and society at the University of Miami. "About 80 to 90 percent of the fish we consume are produced overseas, while 60 percent of what we produce goes overseas. And that's because the U.S. consumer has a limited palate. We consume about a dozen species and our oceans cannot produce all the demand we have for those few species."
Which is why, Talley says, the real focus should be on changing consumer preferences.
"We need to get consumers to include fish that are lower on the food chain and to diversify their demand rather than relying on one or just a few species, such as shark, tuna and swordfish" she said. "Eating those top-level predators can be likened to eating tigers. If we're only eating those, it's not sustainable."
To that end, some experts are trying to find ways to make the lower-food-chain fish more appealing to Americans. "Part of what I'm doing in my job is to raise awareness of other species and to develop recipes with chefs that use fish that are lower on the food chain," Talley says.
Another way we might be able to have our fish and eat them too is to eat only those that are locally caught, says Paul Greenberg, author of "Four Fish" and "American Catch."
Along with that, there needs to be "a major culinary shift," Greenberg says.
If Americans could develop a taste for marine foods like mussels, kelp, oysters and clams—all high in omega-3 fatty acids—it would help put us on track for sustainability, Greenberg says, adding that another way to eat fish responsibly is to keep track of, and buy, only those species that are in good ecological shape.
In any case, Greenberg says, because of strict regulations, most notably the Sustainable Fisheries Act, fish in U.S. waters are most likely to be sustainable, "although other issues, such as climate change, might bite us in the back."
Still, no nation is an island.
"There are countries that are severely overfished with fisheries that are poorly managed," Greenberg says. "Consider that 80 percent of the fish we import is from illegal fisheries. The rest of the world is running themselves into deficits. It's hard to imagine that problem being solved without some serious science and some 'come to Jesus' thinking."
I'll eat as much tuna sushi as I can :bowler:
I do my part by eating cattle and pigs instead. :alberta: :P
Certainly there are fish stocks that have been over fished and need management but others, like our salmon runs, have had some record numbers in the last few years. Not so sure about this article.
Usually when I buy fish I notice that the packaging said it was raised via aquaculture or whatever.
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 28, 2015, 08:16:37 PM
Certainly there are fish stocks that have been over fished and need management but others, like our salmon runs, have had some record numbers in the last few years. Not so sure about this article.
Most of the world is not a well developed, low corruption, first world western nation like Canada.
They are fishing like there is no tomorrow.
Only liberals would claim such a thing. Probably a plot to destroy the middle class.
I read that in a free market animals won't go extinct due to overhunting/fishing. It was in the "Political Incorrect Guide to Capitalism".
When I was a kid, I asked my Cambridge-educated father if the fish would be gone if humans ate too much fish. He insisted that the amount of fish, trees, and clean air on Earth was so vast that the idea of "over-fishing" was absurd. It is like taking a drop of water from the ocean.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 28, 2015, 08:33:36 PM
Most of the world is not a well developed, low corruption, first world western nation like Canada.
They are fishing like there is no tomorrow.
More importantly, most of the sea is not under the legal control of any country.
It could be if we had the will.
We as in you and I?
You, I, and America, through the strength of the USN, the only real navy in the world.
We can't even prevent pirates from operating off east Africa, how are we going to stop fishing vessels across the entire ocean?
Quote from: Monoriu on January 28, 2015, 08:58:19 PM
When I was a kid, I asked my Cambridge-educated father if the fish would be gone if humans ate too much fish. He insisted that the amount of fish, trees, and clean air on Earth was so vast that the idea of "over-fishing" was absurd. It is like taking a drop of water from the ocean.
Don't want to sound harsh Mono, but it sounds like your grandfather didn't get his money worth. Maybe he should ask Cambridge for a refund, because his son didn't learn basic logical thinking.
You're assuming Mono's pop didn't get a scholarship. :hmm:
I need my Omega acids. And by 2050 I will probably have 10 or 15 more years to live, tops. So fuck off, Tim.
It would be oddly satisfying if we somehow managed to EAT an entire species.
Like the dodo?
Quote from: Jaron on January 29, 2015, 02:23:18 AM
It would be oddly satisfying if we somehow managed to EAT an entire species.
When I watched Jaws, I kept thinking of eating shark's fin.
Quote from: Jaron on January 29, 2015, 02:23:18 AM
It would be oddly satisfying if we somehow managed to EAT an entire species.
Some posters could probably manage that by themselves.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 29, 2015, 02:29:40 AM
Like the dodo?
IIRC, we didn't really even eat the dodo, supposedly they didn't taste very good.
Mostly just killed them because people were bored, or were killed by introduced predators.
Timmay, not that crap again.
Another lefty conspiracy theory.
Quote from: Berkut on January 29, 2015, 09:26:53 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 29, 2015, 02:29:40 AM
Like the dodo?
IIRC, we didn't really even eat the dodo, supposedly they didn't taste very good.
Mostly just killed them because people were bored, or were killed by introduced predators.
I think people confuse the dodo with the passenger pigeon (which was eaten in vast numbers)
Quote from: Berkut on January 29, 2015, 09:26:53 AM
IIRC, we didn't really even eat the dodo, supposedly they didn't taste very good.
They may not have been considered a delicacy, but the remoteness of their habitat made them an acceptable meal for hungry sailors.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 28, 2015, 08:33:36 PM
Most of the world is not a well developed, low corruption, first world western nation like Canada.
Ah, the well-developed, low corruption, First World Western nation that destroyed its own cod fisheries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_the_Atlantic_northwest_cod_fishery).
Quote from: jimmy olsen on January 28, 2015, 08:33:36 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 28, 2015, 08:16:37 PM
Certainly there are fish stocks that have been over fished and need management but others, like our salmon runs, have had some record numbers in the last few years. Not so sure about this article.
Most of the world is not a well developed, low corruption, first world western nation like Canada.
They are fishing like there is no tomorrow.
Frankly, the risk of acidification of the oceans is a far greater risk than fisherman from non developed countries.
I thought that, in the Timiverse, we were all going to be killed by Ebola long before 2050.
Quote from: grumbler on January 29, 2015, 10:07:10 AM
I think people confuse the dodo with the passenger pigeon (which was eaten in vast numbers)
I bet the passenger pigeon was delicious.
Quote from: derspiess on January 29, 2015, 01:03:15 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 29, 2015, 10:07:10 AM
I think people confuse the dodo with the passenger pigeon (which was eaten in vast numbers)
I bet the passenger pigeon was delicious.
I'm amazed that a bird as widespread as passenger pigeons were able to be made extinct by humans. It's like trying to make sparrows or robins extinct - I think it'd be damn hard to do. But I think certain traits of the pigeons made it easier to trap/capture large numbers, probably that they flew in large flocks and were captured en masse.
Quote from: derspiess on January 29, 2015, 01:03:15 PM
Quote from: grumbler on January 29, 2015, 10:07:10 AM
I think people confuse the dodo with the passenger pigeon (which was eaten in vast numbers)
I bet the passenger pigeon was delicious.
Like Gerald Ford. :(
Quote from: KRonn on January 29, 2015, 01:44:13 PM
I'm amazed that a bird as widespread as passenger pigeons were able to be made extinct by humans. It's like trying to make sparrows or robins extinct - I think it'd be damn hard to do. But I think certain traits of the pigeons made it easier to trap/capture large numbers, probably that they flew in large flocks and were captured en masse.
Supposedly they were very social birds, to the point where if the flock got small enough they'd just stop breeding. And with mass deforestation in the late 1800s (which has now been replenished, and then some) their habitat got demolished. Also, they were pretty easy to hunt.
They have a big exhibit at the Cincinnati Zoo here that explains it all and lays on the guilt trip.
To celebrate this thread I just ate a tuna and salmon salad.
Quote from: grumbler on January 29, 2015, 12:36:56 PM
Timiverse,
What a hellish existence. Full of spelling errors and reposted articles.
the suicide rate would be huge.
Quote from: Martinus on January 29, 2015, 02:08:08 PM
To celebrate this thread I just ate a tuna and salmon salad.
Salmon is mostly farmed these days.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 29, 2015, 04:01:57 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 29, 2015, 02:08:08 PM
To celebrate this thread I just ate a tuna and salmon salad.
Salmon is mostly farmed these days.
I shop at a good spot that sells wild salmon.
So you are giving your money to Vlad?
Not really news. The rising price of eel in Japan and cod in the UK have been recurring news stories for donkies of years. Still worrying.
Science needs to get going with producing vat grown fish- has to be easier than vat grown steak, right? maybe? no basis but I hope so...
Quote from: Siege on January 29, 2015, 10:05:58 AM
Timmay, not that crap again.
Another lefty conspiracy theory.
It's simple math.
There are X number of fish in the world. If they are killed faster than they reproduce than they will go extinct.
BOLLOCKS
Quote from: Tyr on January 29, 2015, 04:33:33 PM
Not really news. The rising price of eel in Japan and cod in the UK have been recurring news stories for donkies of years. Still worrying.
Science needs to get going with producing vat grown fish- has to be easier than vat grown steak, right? maybe? no basis but I hope so...
Do you measure years in donkeys?
Coal piles
I'm wondering about this conspiracy theory business. Who stands to benefit from the world running out of fish? :hmm:
Quote from: Razgovory on January 29, 2015, 09:06:28 PM
Quote from: Tyr on January 29, 2015, 04:33:33 PM
Not really news. The rising price of eel in Japan and cod in the UK have been recurring news stories for donkies of years. Still worrying.
Science needs to get going with producing vat grown fish- has to be easier than vat grown steak, right? maybe? no basis but I hope so...
Do you measure years in donkeys?
Since a pony is 25 then a donkey's probably about 12.5, so Tyr is suggesting a minimum of 25, perhaps 37.5 or more years.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 29, 2015, 09:10:40 PM
I'm wondering about this conspiracy theory business. Who stands to benefit from the world running out of fish? :hmm:
The Joker, or perhaps Batman is behind it? :ph34r:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 29, 2015, 09:10:40 PM
I'm wondering about this conspiracy theory business. Who stands to benefit from the world running out of fish? :hmm:
Anti-Catholic partisans.
Blue-fin tuna is indeed better than all other kinds of tuna.