The title may be going a bit too far ( :P), but the Pope has just said this on Catholics participating in Orthodox Eucharist:
Quote"I want to assure each one of you here that, to reach the desired goal of full unity, the Catholic Church does not intend to impose any conditions except that of the shared profession of faith. Further, I would add that we are ready to seek together, in light of Scriptural teaching and the experience of the first millennium, the ways in which we can guarantee the needed unity of the Church in the present circumstances. The one thing that the Catholic Church desires, and that I seek as Bishop of Rome, 'the Church which presides in charity,' is communion with the Orthodox Churches."
Perhaps you should start one Catholic News From Around the World That's Catholic thread.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 03, 2014, 07:37:10 AM
Perhaps you should start one Catholic News From Around the World That's Catholic thread.
We already have Gay News and Polish News thread, so a Catholic one would be doubly redundant. :P
Nihil novi sub sole
This has been the line since Paul VI at the least. Problem is, Muscovy Patriarchate. Relations are fine with the Byzantine patriarchate. Monophysitism is no longer an issue with other Oriental churches as well with a common christological position.
I'm still not sure if the church of the Exiled White Russians in Paris recognizes the authority of Moscow or if they still refer to Constantinople, to give an example of these tortuous relationships. Last time the issue came up with Russians, nobody could ascertain what was the current status. Probably still under Constantinople.
I'm not sure Moscow Patriarchate has any authority left, seeing as nowadays they pretty much worship Putin instead of God.
Quote from: Solmyr on December 03, 2014, 08:19:03 AM
I'm not sure Moscow Patriarchate has any authority left, seeing as nowadays they pretty much worship Putin instead of God.
About one third of Ukrainian Orthodox follow the Moscow Patriarchate, I believe I read somewhere, so it is not entirely without influence outside of Russia.
It is so painfully obvious that within ten years, Marti will end up being an ultra conservative Catholic devout, frowning upon the sinful ways of youth, gays in particular, and longing for the days of old when marriage was between a man and a woman.
And good for him, as Holy Mother Church always welcomes back those who have wandered from Her embrace. Even sausage smugglers.
Quote from: Solmyr on December 03, 2014, 08:19:03 AM
I'm not sure Moscow Patriarchate has any authority left, seeing as nowadays they pretty much worship Putin instead of God.
Well, it's not like cesaropapism is without precedent in the (Russian) Orthodox Church, is it? :P
Someone should made a EUIV mod in honour of this Pope. :)
Quote from: Solmyr on December 03, 2014, 08:19:03 AM
I'm not sure Moscow Patriarchate has any authority left, seeing as nowadays they pretty much worship Putin instead of God.
MP is doing quite well, despite their Putinism.
The real issue is that despite all the glad-handing, no Orthodox bishop will submit to Roman rule. The whole system of leadership in the church is entirely different. Even though the filioque can be hand-waved away by the RC, and monophysitism has been largely dealt with, the immaculate conception of Mary and the infallibility and dominance of the Pope are non-starters.
Quote from: Scipio on December 03, 2014, 07:22:03 PM
the immaculate conception of Mary and the infallibility and dominance of the Pope are non-starters.
So pretty much the same things that separate Roman Catholics and Protestants.
Well, I can see (at least if you read Francis between the lines) that he considers Papal infallibility and dominance more of a political than theological issue and he is not aiming for submitting the Orthodox churches to Rome - more like reaching a common platform ("separate but equal" ;)).
As for Mary, I always thought her immaculate conception was bollocks.
Quote from: Scipio on December 03, 2014, 07:22:03 PM
infallibility
I thought that was only for resolving internal Catholic Dogma debate type deals.
Quote from: dps on December 03, 2014, 08:05:56 PM
Quote from: Scipio on December 03, 2014, 07:22:03 PM
the immaculate conception of Mary and the infallibility and dominance of the Pope are non-starters.
So pretty much the same things that separate Roman Catholics and Protestants.
Not really no. Compared to Protestants Orthodox and Catholics are basically the same thing. Protestants are not Catholics who just do not have a Pope (well ok some of them are like those conservative Anglican types).
Yeah. There is the whole stuff about saints, and, depending on the heretical sect to which protestants belong, there are significant issues concerning deeds vs. faith, salvation and the like.
Not to mention Unitarians who are just atheists who like to bake goods and meet on Sundays.
Quote from: Martinus on December 04, 2014, 02:17:30 AM
Well, I can see (at least if you read Francis between the lines) that he considers Papal infallibility and dominance more of a political than theological issue and he is not aiming for submitting the Orthodox churches to Rome - more like reaching a common platform ("separate but equal" ;)).
As for Mary, I always thought her immaculate conception was bollocks.
It isnt as though the pope dictated things to the east before the great schism. I understand that benedict wrote that that the maximum catholics could ever expect from orthodox in a reunification would be a relationship like the one that existed historically (before the final break).
Quote from: Scipio on December 03, 2014, 07:22:03 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on December 03, 2014, 08:19:03 AM
I'm not sure Moscow Patriarchate has any authority left, seeing as nowadays they pretty much worship Putin instead of God.
MP is doing quite well, despite their Putinism.
The real issue is that despite all the glad-handing, no Orthodox bishop will submit to Roman rule. The whole system of leadership in the church is entirely different. Even though the filioque can be hand-waved away by the RC, and monophysitism has been largely dealt with, the immaculate conception of Mary and the infallibility and dominance of the Pope are non-starters.
Immaculate Conception of Mary and infallibility are more recent though since they date from the 19th century (Vatican I). They're real impediments but overplayed, the real causes were more mundane, powerplays between the East and the West. Noboby mentioned the Eastern Catholics/Uniate who "submit to the pope" but keep their Eastern rituals, that's another real obstacle, specially for Moscow.
Such as before the great schism and the fall of the exarchate of Ravenna, the Eastern Emperor dictated things to the Pope (450 to 752).
Quote from: Martinus on December 04, 2014, 11:20:21 AM
Not to mention Unitarians who are just atheists who like to bake goods and meet on Sundays.
Whatever. The Trinitarians are just pagans who like to pretend to be Christians.
The eastern churches should be OK with the immaculate reception, there are plenty of Slavic types in western Penn and only Raiders fans could be offended.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on December 04, 2014, 01:31:30 PM
The eastern churches should be OK with the immaculate reception, there are plenty of Slavic types in western Penn and only Raiders fans could be offended.
They have their Holy Roller heresy.
Quote from: Martinus on December 04, 2014, 11:20:21 AM
Not to mention Unitarians who are just atheists who like to bake goods and meet on Sundays.
Very rude to try and rile V up like that.
Ugh. Unitarians.
Quote from: garbon on December 05, 2014, 08:11:59 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 04, 2014, 11:20:21 AM
Not to mention Unitarians who are just atheists who like to bake goods and meet on Sundays.
Very rude to try and rile V up like that.
It gets him every time. :D