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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 01:08:19 AM

Title: Ah, memories
Post by: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 01:08:19 AM
QuoteTIANJIN, China — For the past year, Liu Qichao has focused on one thing, and only one thing: the gao kao, or the high test.

Fourteen to 16 hours a day, he studied for the college entrance examination, which this year will determine the fate of more than 10 million Chinese students. He took one day off every three weeks.

He was still carrying his textbook from room to room last Sunday morning before leaving for the exam site, still reviewing materials during the lunch break, still hard at work Sunday night, preparing for Part 2 of the exam that Monday.

"I want to study until the last minute," he said. "I really hope to be successful."

China may be changing at head-twirling speed, but the ritual of the gao kao (pronounced gow kow) remains as immutable as chopsticks. One Chinese saying compares the exam to a stampede of "a thousand soldiers and 10 horses across a single log bridge."

The Chinese test is in some ways like the American SAT, except that it lasts more than twice as long. The nine-hour test is offered just once a year and is the sole determinant for admission to virtually all Chinese colleges and universities. About three in five students make the cut.

Families pull out all the stops to optimize their children's scores. In Sichuan Province in southwestern China, students studied in a hospital, hooked up to oxygen containers, in hopes of improving their concentration.

Some girls take contraceptives so they will not get their periods during the exam. Some well-off parents dangle the promise of fabulous rewards for offspring whose scores get them into a top-ranked university: parties, 100,000 renminbi in cash, or about $14,600, or better.


"My father even promised me, if I get into a college like Nankai University in Tianjin, 'I'll give you a prize, an Audi,' " said Chen Qiong, a 17-year-old girl taking the exam in Beijing.

Outside the exam sites, parents keep vigil for hours, as anxious as husbands waiting for their wives to give birth. A tardy arrival is disastrous. One student who arrived four minutes late in 2007 was turned away, even though she and her mother knelt before the exam proctor, begging for leniency.

Cheating is increasingly sophisticated. One group of parents last year outfitted their children with tiny earpieces, persuaded a teacher to fax them the questions and then transmitted the answers by cellphone. Another father equipped a student with a miniscanner and had nine teachers on standby to provide the answers. In all, 2,645 cheaters were caught last year.

Critics complain that the gao kao illustrates the flaws in an education system that stresses memorization over independent thinking and creativity. Educators also say that rural students are at a disadvantage and that the quality of higher education has been sacrificed for quantity.

But the national obsession with the test also indicates progress. Despite a slight drop in registration this year — the first decline in seven years — five million more students signed up for the test than did so in 2002.

China now has more than 1,900 institutions of higher learning, nearly double the number in 2000. Close to 19 million students are enrolled, a sixfold jump in one decade.

Liu Qichao, 19, a big-boned student with careful habits, plans to be the first in his family to go to college. "There just were not a lot of universities then," said his father, Liu Jie, who graduated from high school in 1980 and sells textile machinery. His son harbors hopes of getting into one of China's top universities.

But the whole family was shaken by the results of his first try at the gao kao last June.

The night before the exam, he lingered at his parents' bedside, unable to sleep for hours. "I was so nervous during the exam my mind went blank," he said. He scored 432 points out of a possible 750, too low to be admitted even to a second-tier institution.

Silence reigned in the house for days afterward. "My mother was very angry," he said. "She said, 'All these years of raising you and washing your clothes and cooking for you, and you earn such a bad score.'

"I cried for half a month."

Then the family arrived at a new plan: He would enroll in a military-style boarding school in Tianjin, devoting himself exclusively to test preparation, and retake the test this June.

Despite the annual school fee of 38,500 renminbi (about $5,640) — well above the average annual income for a Chinese family — he had plenty of company.

One of his classmates, Li Yiran, a cheerful 18-year-old, estimated that more than one-fourth of the seniors at their secondary school, Yangcun No. 1 Middle School, were "restudy" students.

Ms. Li said she learned the hard way about the school's strict regimen. When her cellphone rang in class one day, the teacher smashed it against the radiator. Classes continue for three weeks straight, barely interrupted by a one-day break.

Days after most of their classmates left for home, Mr. Liu and Ms. Li were still holed up last week in their classrooms. Mr. Liu's wrist was bruised from pressing the edge of his blue metal desk, piled with a foot-high stack of textbooks.

Ms. Li's breakfast was a favorite among test-takers: a bread stick next to two eggs, symbolizing a 100 percent score.

Hours after they finished the test on Monday, both students had collected the answers from the district education bureau and begun the laborious process, with the help of their teachers, of estimating their scores.

Mr. Liu calculated that his score leaped by more than 100 points over last year's dismal performance. But he was still downcast, uncertain whether he would make the cutoff to apply to top-tier universities. The cutoff mark can vary by an applicant's place of residence and ethnicity.

Ms. Li, on the other hand, was exhilarated by her estimate of 482.5, figuring it was probably high enough for admittance to a college of the second rank.

By Wednesday evening, both were buoyed by news of the cutoff scores for their district. His estimated mark was well above the one needed to apply to first-tier schools, and hers was a solid five points above the notch for the second tier.

Before the test, Ms. Li's aunt warned her that this was her last chance for a college degree. Even if she knelt before her mother and begged, her aunt said, her mother would refuse to let her take the test again.

But Ms. Li, a hardened veteran of not one but two gao kao ordeals, had a ready retort: "Come on. Even if my mother kneels down before me, I will refuse to take this test again."


They are lucky on the Mainland.  In Hong Kong, we had not one, but two such exams.  Each lasted for two weeks, not nine hours.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: sbr on June 15, 2009, 01:30:30 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 01:08:19 AM
They are lucky on the Mainland.  In Hong Kong, we had not one, but two such exams.  Each lasted for two weeks, not nine hours.
Why do they have daughters, I though the Chinese always drown the baby girls.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Zanza on June 15, 2009, 02:33:59 AM
So they more than doubled the number of higher education institutions in less than a decade? I suspect a quality problem. And isn't it really hard for those few million graduates each year to find a job? I met a couple of Chinese in assessement centers etc. here in Germany and they always wanted to get out of China because the job market sucks.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 02:48:32 AM
Quote from: Zanza2 on June 15, 2009, 02:33:59 AM
So they more than doubled the number of higher education institutions in less than a decade? I suspect a quality problem. And isn't it really hard for those few million graduates each year to find a job? I met a couple of Chinese in assessement centers etc. here in Germany and they always wanted to get out of China because the job market sucks.

Yes, that is my impression as well.  It is now increasingly common to see university gradutes waiting tables, something unheard of a decade ago.  As the article says, the number of students taking the exam has declined this year for precisely this reason.  More and more marginal students think it is useless to get into a second or third tier university.  It is not only difficult for them to get a job - even if they do, the pay is really bad.  I read somewhere that the average pay of a graduate in China is something like US$250 a month. 

The race into the best schools however remain as fierce as ever. 
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 15, 2009, 05:27:34 AM
QuoteCritics complain that the gao kao illustrates the flaws in an education system that stresses memorization over independent thinking and creativity. Educators also say that rural students are at a disadvantage and that the quality of higher education has been sacrificed for quantity.

Mindless little yellow Robotrons.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 05:37:24 AM
I think everyone knows that the exam only tests students' ability to cramp as many facts into their brains as possible, and this has nothing to do with the "real world". 

But the exams serve an important purpose - to provide a reasonable route for every student to succeed.  Imagine for a moment if there are no such exams.  The universities will still need a way to admit students.  It'll be ugly - places could be sold to the highest bidder, to the most powerful, with the best connections.  The exams at least provide a chance for the poor and powerless to get into a good university - so long as you are willing to work hard enough.  It is very far from perfect, but it is better than nothing.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 15, 2009, 05:49:05 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 05:37:24 AMIt'll be ugly - places could be sold to the highest bidder, to the most powerful, with the best connections.

It's worked for American universities for decades.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 05:55:49 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 15, 2009, 05:49:05 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 05:37:24 AMIt'll be ugly - places could be sold to the highest bidder, to the most powerful, with the best connections.

It's worked for American universities for decades.

When I heard that North American universities admit people if they play basketball well enough, I thought the system was a joke. 
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Josquius on June 15, 2009, 06:10:06 AM
China is fucked up. Enough said.
Its nice I suppose for us though; we do all the creative thinking and we have our semi-educated east asian drones to do the work.

I've always sucked at exams, I was born Chinese I'd be doomed.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Ed Anger on June 15, 2009, 06:11:14 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 05:55:49 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 15, 2009, 05:49:05 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 05:37:24 AMIt'll be ugly - places could be sold to the highest bidder, to the most powerful, with the best connections.

It's worked for American universities for decades.

When I heard that North American universities admit people if they play basketball well enough, I thought the system was a joke.

Don't be hatin' that you couldn't fake the funk on the nasty dunk.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: PDH on June 15, 2009, 09:06:46 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 15, 2009, 06:11:14 AM
Don't be hatin' that you couldn't fake the funk on the nasty dunk.
It don't be a real dunk if it ain't got that funk.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Valmy on June 15, 2009, 09:14:43 AM
Hehe this sounds exactly like the civil service exams for the Imperial bureaucracy during the Chinese Empire.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 09:31:47 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 15, 2009, 09:14:43 AM
Hehe this sounds exactly like the civil service exams for the Imperial bureaucracy during the Chinese Empire.

Yes.  It is an incredibly powerful social stabilising tool.  Millions of families are busy either studying for the exams or supporting their kids to prepare for the exam, rather than plotting something else.  Even the most powerless has some hope for the future, for as long as one of their sons make it to the best schools and then the best jobs, they'll be able join at least the middle class.  It is also a great unifier.  Everybody from acorss the vast country studies the same thing, the same language, the same subjects. 

Chinese culture buy exams.  Even in British ruled colonial Hong Kong, they run territory wide civil service exams every year. 
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Zanza on June 15, 2009, 09:44:17 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 05:37:24 AMBut the exams serve an important purpose - to provide a reasonable route for every student to succeed.  Imagine for a moment if there are no such exams.  The universities will still need a way to admit students.  It'll be ugly - places could be sold to the highest bidder, to the most powerful, with the best connections.  The exams at least provide a chance for the poor and powerless to get into a good university - so long as you are willing to work hard enough.  It is very far from perfect, but it is better than nothing.
In Germany they take some kind of weighted average of all the exams of the last two years of high school to evaluate whether or not you get admitted to a certain subject at a certain university. There are final exams, but they only count for say a third or so of the final grade. Probably not as stressful as the one chance approach in China.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 09:57:29 AM
Quote from: Zanza2 on June 15, 2009, 09:44:17 AM

In Germany they take some kind of weighted average of all the exams of the last two years of high school to evaluate whether or not you get admitted to a certain subject at a certain university. There are final exams, but they only count for say a third or so of the final grade. Probably not as stressful as the one chance approach in China.

The trouble with that approach is that different schools have vastly different standards.  In China/Hong Kong, schools have a high degree of freedom to choose students, and vice versa.  The result is great stratification of schools - the best students always go to the same schools, and the worst students are left with the worst schools.  Those who do the worst in the best schools very often beat the best students in the second tier schools. 

The single most important aspect of the Chinese exams is fairness.  The system must be perceived as fair, otherwise the students and parents will revolt against the system.  It is not fair to compare students from one school to another using school based exams.  Only a single open exam can do that.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Zanza on June 15, 2009, 10:11:53 AM
The final exams are standardized in most German states too to increase fairness. However, that doesn't take away discretion of the teacher in grading as we usually don't have multiple choice questions, but rather something like "Explain the tragic situation of this figure in this drama" and then you are expected to write ten pages about that. So that doesn't make it comparable either.

Our universities also have some discretion in choosing their students and don't have to only go by the average grade but can also consider other, usually social, aspects.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 10:19:44 AM
Quote from: Zanza2 on June 15, 2009, 10:11:53 AM
The final exams are standardized in most German states too to increase fairness. However, that doesn't take away discretion of the teacher in grading as we usually don't have multiple choice questions, but rather something like "Explain the tragic situation of this figure in this drama" and then you are expected to write ten pages about that. So that doesn't make it comparable either.

Our universities also have some discretion in choosing their students and don't have to only go by the average grade but can also consider other, usually social, aspects.

The obsession with fairness is the reason why Chinese exams focus so much on memorization.  The only way to make grading consistent across the vast country is a standardized marking scheme, with fixed points for specified words mentioned.  To make the system as fair as possible, universities have almost no discretion in choosing students.  Someone who scores 87 and who sits at home all day playing computer games will beat someone who scores 86, has done 10,000 hours of voluntary work, is captain of the school football team, and can speak 10 languages.  Take away as much human discretion as possible is the only way to ensure fairness.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Zanza on June 15, 2009, 10:38:31 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 10:19:44 AMThe obsession with fairness is the reason why Chinese exams focus so much on memorization.  The only way to make grading consistent across the vast country is a standardized marking scheme, with fixed points for specified words mentioned.  To make the system as fair as possible, universities have almost no discretion in choosing students.  Someone who scores 87 and who sits at home all day playing computer games will beat someone who scores 86, has done 10,000 hours of voluntary work, is captain of the school football team, and can speak 10 languages.  Take away as much human discretion as possible is the only way to ensure fairness.
The difference being that people here wouldn't consider that fair at all. After all the 86 guy is much more qualified. So it would be fair to give him the university place.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 15, 2009, 10:42:29 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 10:19:44 AM
Quote from: Zanza2 on June 15, 2009, 10:11:53 AM
The final exams are standardized in most German states too to increase fairness. However, that doesn't take away discretion of the teacher in grading as we usually don't have multiple choice questions, but rather something like "Explain the tragic situation of this figure in this drama" and then you are expected to write ten pages about that. So that doesn't make it comparable either.

Our universities also have some discretion in choosing their students and don't have to only go by the average grade but can also consider other, usually social, aspects.

The obsession with fairness is the reason why Chinese exams focus so much on memorization.  The only way to make grading consistent across the vast country is a standardized marking scheme, with fixed points for specified words mentioned.  To make the system as fair as possible, universities have almost no discretion in choosing students.  Someone who scores 87 and who sits at home all day playing computer games will beat someone who scores 86, has done 10,000 hours of voluntary work, is captain of the school football team, and can speak 10 languages.  Take away as much human discretion as possible is the only way to ensure fairness.
To call that fair is an exercise in Orwellian doublespeak.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 10:47:23 AM
Quote from: Zanza2 on June 15, 2009, 10:38:31 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 10:19:44 AMThe obsession with fairness is the reason why Chinese exams focus so much on memorization.  The only way to make grading consistent across the vast country is a standardized marking scheme, with fixed points for specified words mentioned.  To make the system as fair as possible, universities have almost no discretion in choosing students.  Someone who scores 87 and who sits at home all day playing computer games will beat someone who scores 86, has done 10,000 hours of voluntary work, is captain of the school football team, and can speak 10 languages.  Take away as much human discretion as possible is the only way to ensure fairness.
The difference being that people here wouldn't consider that fair at all. After all the 86 guy is much more qualified. So it would be fair to give him the university place.

The argument goes like this.  So you say the 86 guy should be admitted.  What if he didn't do 10,000 hours of voluntary service.  What if he did only 1,000 hours.  Now, should we let the 87 guy in or the 86?  Still say the 86 guy should be in?  What if someone has a score of 86 but only 100 hours?  Or 10?  Where EXACTLY do you draw the line?  What is voluntary service?  What counts and what doesn't?  As soon as you let the officials have any kind of discretion, the system is less than fair.  The only way to keep nepotism and corruption out is to base admisison on nothing but the exam. 
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Berkut on June 15, 2009, 10:50:17 AM
QuoteAs soon as you let the officials have any kind of discretion, the system is less than fair.

That is simply not true. You are confusing objectivity with fairness.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Malthus on June 15, 2009, 10:53:08 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 15, 2009, 10:42:29 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 10:19:44 AM
Quote from: Zanza2 on June 15, 2009, 10:11:53 AM
The final exams are standardized in most German states too to increase fairness. However, that doesn't take away discretion of the teacher in grading as we usually don't have multiple choice questions, but rather something like "Explain the tragic situation of this figure in this drama" and then you are expected to write ten pages about that. So that doesn't make it comparable either.

Our universities also have some discretion in choosing their students and don't have to only go by the average grade but can also consider other, usually social, aspects.

The obsession with fairness is the reason why Chinese exams focus so much on memorization.  The only way to make grading consistent across the vast country is a standardized marking scheme, with fixed points for specified words mentioned.  To make the system as fair as possible, universities have almost no discretion in choosing students.  Someone who scores 87 and who sits at home all day playing computer games will beat someone who scores 86, has done 10,000 hours of voluntary work, is captain of the school football team, and can speak 10 languages.  Take away as much human discretion as possible is the only way to ensure fairness.
To call that fair is an exercise in Orwellian doublespeak.

I suspect the concern is that if there is any way to judge other than by strict objective criteria, people would game the system. In short it would work as a avenue for corruption.

Consider that half the purpose of the exam is to muffle social discontent. The "fairness" isn't there to ensure that the best students make it into university, but rather to assure poor Chinese that there exists a *possible* route to social advancement. The fact that it is incredibly arbitrary (a high stress exam relying on rote memorization) certainly will not ensure that the "best" students make it in - but it does ensure that the exam is difficult to game (other than in the obvious ways - a rich person can afford to pay for lots of memorization tuition).
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 10:53:40 AM
Quote from: Berkut on June 15, 2009, 10:50:17 AM
QuoteAs soon as you let the officials have any kind of discretion, the system is less than fair.

That is simply not true. You are confusing objectivity with fairness.

Hey, you don't need to convince me.  Try to explain this to the 1.3 billion people up there.  Even the communists don't dare to mess with this thousand year old tradition  :menace:
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 10:58:38 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 15, 2009, 10:53:08 AM


I suspect the concern is that if there is any way to judge other than by strict objective criteria, people would game the system. In short it would work as a avenue for corruption.

Consider that half the purpose of the exam is to muffle social discontent. The "fairness" isn't there to ensure that the best students make it into university, but rather to assure poor Chinese that there exists a *possible* route to social advancement. The fact that it is incredibly arbitrary (a high stress exam relying on rote memorization) certainly will not ensure that the "best" students make it in - but it does ensure that the exam is difficult to game (other than in the obvious ways - a rich person can afford to pay for lots of memorization tuition).

Exactly.  The rich can hire expensive tutors.  But nothing prevents the poor kid from studying 18 hours a day.  The important thing is to convince the masses that the poor kid will win if he gives the correct answer.  So far, the system works well in this aspect. 
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Malthus on June 15, 2009, 11:10:38 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 10:58:38 AM
Exactly.  The rich can hire expensive tutors.  But nothing prevents the poor kid from studying 18 hours a day.  The important thing is to convince the masses that the poor kid will win if he gives the correct answer.  So far, the system works well in this aspect.

Most people in the first world do not understand the purpose of the exam system - in China it has always been about social stability; those who are poor or dispossessed have open to them a possible route to advancement. This means that they will work hard memorizing bullshit rather than stirring up trouble and revolution (and if they succeed, they get a good job, meaning they are absorbed into the existing society).

It is interesting to note that some of the worst revolutions in Chinese history were headed by people who failed their exams - the T'ai P'ing rebellion for example. Also, exam halls were traditionally supposed to be haunted by the ghosts of all the students who committed suicide under the pressure or on failure.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 11:14:02 AM
Because if you fail your exams, you are a failure for the rest of your life.  Unless you break the existing order. 

I must say I like the system.  I am the 87 guy who laughs at the 86 guy  :P
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Grey Fox on June 15, 2009, 11:15:37 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 11:14:02 AM
Because if you fail your exams, you are a failure for the rest of your life.  Unless you break the existing order. 

I must say I like the system.  I am the 87 guy who laughs at the 86 guy  :P

I'm the 63 guy that lives in the first world :yeah:
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: DisturbedPervert on June 15, 2009, 11:16:45 AM
If you're the 86 with 10,000 hours of community service and the ability to speak 10 languages you'd be an idiot if you didn't study abroad.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: The Brain on June 15, 2009, 11:22:10 AM
I doubt that having done 10,000 hours of community service, supposedly for a great number of various minor crimes, makes you more qualified.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Josquius on June 15, 2009, 11:29:27 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 09:57:29 AM
The trouble with that approach is that different schools have vastly different standards.  In China/Hong Kong, schools have a high degree of freedom to choose students, and vice versa.  The result is great stratification of schools - the best students always go to the same schools, and the worst students are left with the worst schools.  Those who do the worst in the best schools very often beat the best students in the second tier schools. 

The single most important aspect of the Chinese exams is fairness.  The system must be perceived as fair, otherwise the students and parents will revolt against the system.  It is not fair to compare students from one school to another using school based exams.  Only a single open exam can do that.

In the UK its all marked through a centralised system over the 2 years.
Countries where its down to the school to mark the students sound a bit wrong to me...Though I would have done really well under such a system.

QuoteTo make the system as fair as possible, universities have almost no discretion in choosing students.  Someone who scores 87 and who sits at home all day playing computer games will beat someone who scores 86, has done 10,000 hours of voluntary work, is captain of the school football team, and can speak 10 languages.  Take away as much human discretion as possible is the only way to ensure fairness.
That is not fair at all.
They should take into account that the rich kids can afford to spend all their time studying whilst the poor kids will have to help out on the farm or that out of two kids with the same score one has just overcame a major illness which ruined studying for several years.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: saskganesh on June 15, 2009, 11:32:02 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 15, 2009, 11:22:10 AM
I doubt that having done 10,000 hours of community service, supposedly for a great number of various minor crimes, makes you more qualified.

well then it time to move up to the big leagues and gain some exposure to the international crime cartels.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: The Brain on June 15, 2009, 11:38:43 AM
I can see several reasons for saying that the Chinese system is bad, but it being unfair of all things isn't one of them.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Valmy on June 15, 2009, 11:40:00 AM
Quote from: saskganesh on June 15, 2009, 11:32:02 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 15, 2009, 11:22:10 AM
I doubt that having done 10,000 hours of community service, supposedly for a great number of various minor crimes, makes you more qualified.

well then it time to move up to the big leagues and gain some exposure to the international crime cartels.

Yeah are there exams to take to join the Triad?
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 15, 2009, 01:58:53 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 15, 2009, 11:40:00 AM
Yeah are there exams to take to join the Triad?
Break into a British prison and free the world's greatest kung fu killer.  Duh.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 07:08:07 PM
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on June 15, 2009, 11:16:45 AM
If you're the 86 with 10,000 hours of community service and the ability to speak 10 languages you'd be an idiot if you didn't study abroad.

Only if you can afford it :contract:
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: PDH on June 15, 2009, 07:30:58 PM
Had a girl in my class last spring who was from Beijing.  Her father had studied in the US, and he wanted her to go to university in the US (but someplace safe...Wyoming).  She did the "English High School" route and then came to get a business degree here...

They were the anti-chinese, I think.
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: Monoriu on June 15, 2009, 08:16:52 PM
Quote from: PDH on June 15, 2009, 07:30:58 PM
Had a girl in my class last spring who was from Beijing.  Her father had studied in the US, and he wanted her to go to university in the US (but someplace safe...Wyoming).  She did the "English High School" route and then came to get a business degree here...

They were the anti-chinese, I think.

We have "international schools" in Hong Kong.  Not 100% sure if we are talking about the same thing, but could be.  The original purpose of these schools is to provide a place for the children of British civil servants and other expats.  So that they don't need to go through the Chinese exam system and they can merge with the British school system back in the UK, should their parents decide to go back. 

But over time, a lot of rich local Chinese see the merits of those schools as well.  They plan to send their children to overseas universities anyway, so there is no point to study for the Chinese exams.  Children studying in these schools generally learn much better English (because so many of the class is British, they have no choice but to speak English at school).  They are also much happier, because the work load is much lighter without the burden of the exam.  The downside is that these schools are very expensive, and very difficult to get in.  I know lots of people who register their kids at such schools before they are even born. 
Title: Re: Ah, memories
Post by: PDH on June 16, 2009, 07:44:00 PM
She was a really nice girl, just finishing her degree in business and wanted to take a history course as an elective.  When she finished the semester, she gave me this bronze frieze thingy showing the first Emperor at the gates of Xian.  She is getting her MBA as some nice school back east starting this fall.

(I suspect her folks had a fair amount of money)