A Soviet born Ukrainian living in New Jersey ... :hmm:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/16/magazine/my-country-of-origin-its-complicated.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=fb-nytimes&bicmst=1409232722000&bicmet=1419773522000&smtyp=aut&bicmp=AD&bicmlukp=WT.mc_id
QuoteMy Country of Origin? It's Complicated
April, I was stopped at a police checkpoint at 2 in the morning. Being pulled over for any other reason is a drag; being pulled over for a sobriety check when you're cold sober is exhilarating. It doesn't matter where you are in life; for those five minutes, you're an all-star. "Can you recite the alphabet starting at D and ending at W?" Can I ever! Watch me nail it. "I need you to count backward from 97 to 63." I hope you're recording this. Because you're going to be so impressed you're going to want to play it for all your friends back at the station.
But then the cop asked a question that tripped me up. "How do you pronounce your name?" she asked, handing me back my license. I froze.
"Where are you from?" Americans ask when they hear me speak, and I never know what to say. "New Jersey" never works, probably because people from New Jersey don't have Slavic accents and are not named Lev. "Russia" is good for about two seconds, until the inevitable "Which part of Russia?" follow-up. "Ukraine," I sigh. "So aren't you Ukrainian?"
Well, technically I'm from the Russian-speaking region of a Soviet Socialist republic that used to be part of a country that isn't there anymore. It was called the Soviet Union, and you can still find it on old maps. "It's complicated."
During my first week of college, a clever vendor made a killing selling world flags outside the freshman dorms. Many in my hall bought them because someone, probably the vendor, started a rumor that exotic origins were good icebreakers with girls. The flag of Ukraine, where, according to my passport, I'm from, felt wrong: I've never lived in independent Ukraine, never walked under that blue-and-yellow flag, never bought anything with a hryvnia, didn't even know what a hryvnia broke down into (hryvlets? hryvlings?). Besides, I'm from eastern Ukraine and speak Russian, not Ukrainian — how can I be from a country when I don't speak its language?
I wanted badly to buy one, maybe the New Jersey state flag? Eight years of living there had to count for something, right? But for my high-school friends, Little League and swim lessons at Seaside were memories. For me, they were just concepts. Getting a Jersey flag was cheating, like spending a week at a Cancún resort, then claiming I'd experienced Mexico. I finally bought the red Soviet flag, which I promptly shoved in a dresser drawer. "Why did you buy it if you aren't going to hang it?" asked my roommate as he pinned up Czech and Filipino flags above his bed.
"I don't know," I said. "You have to be from somewhere, I guess." The flag stayed in the dresser for the rest of the semester.
The problem, I decided later, was that I lacked any longing for roots in the first place. When an American tells me he's going to visit Ukraine, my immediate assumption is that he has lost a bad bet. When someone asks if I have been back, I say no. What I don't tell them is that the night my family jettisoned our lives, friends and possessions and crossed the Soviet border into Czechoslovakia was the happiest night of my life. It didn't matter that we had no destination, no plans and no money; the only thing I cared about was we'd be out-of-Ukraine-forever, and out-of-Ukraine-forever was good. Why go back and ruin a wonderful memory?
"Sir?" The cop was staring at me. Taking my time explaining how to pronounce my own name was quickly eroding any sobriety points I had gained with my stellar alphanumeric performance a few moments earlier.
"Lev, like it's spelled." I'm from East Windsor, half a mile away, and I just want to go home so I can do wholesome activities and pay my taxes. I have the coordination of a baboon on quaaludes. Please don't make me stand on one leg; it'll demean us both. "I'm from Ukraine, ma'am."
"East or west?" she asked, a question no American would have thought of asking six months ago, before the Ukraine crisis.
East. East all the way. Yes, I hate it, and it makes Detroit look like a posh resort, but it's mine to hate. Not Putin's, not Kiev's, not the United Nations Security Council's and certainly not the media pundits' who keep labeling my relatives back in Kharkiv terrorists and separatists. Mine.
"East, ma'am," I said, and I shuddered. I thought I heard a note of pride in my voice.
"Drive safe," she said and let me on my way.
Ukrainian self-loathing. It's a special thing.
I'm from Lvov. :mad:
Sounds like a real class traitor.
Not really a new development.
So why do Ukrainian go to New Jersey? Is it because the depressive, run down atmosphere, the pollution, and decaying towns and cities remind them of the Old CountryTM?
Quote from: Syt on November 17, 2014, 09:12:47 AM
So why do Ukrainian go to New Jersey? Is it because the depressive, run down atmosphere, the pollution, and decaying towns and cities remind them of the Old CountryTM?
:yes: Between Bridgeton and Camden, we've got our own little slices of Detroit here in South Jersey. I've also heard Newark compared to Detroit, but the last couple times I had to be up there for various reasons, it didn't seem quite as bad as the first two I named.
Quote from: Syt on November 17, 2014, 09:12:47 AM
So why do Ukrainian go to New Jersey? Is it because the depressive, run down atmosphere, the pollution, and decaying towns and cities remind them of the Old CountryTM?
:mad: New Jersey is nice, if you just stay away from big cities or northern stretches of New Jersey Turnpike.
Quote from: DGuller on November 17, 2014, 09:24:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 17, 2014, 09:12:47 AM
So why do Ukrainian go to New Jersey? Is it because the depressive, run down atmosphere, the pollution, and decaying towns and cities remind them of the Old CountryTM?
:mad: New Jersey is nice, if you just stay away from big cities or northern stretches of New Jersey Turnpike.
All most people know first-hand about New Jersey is what they can see on the drive or train ride from Newark Airport to New York ... ;)
If you guys wanted to help out the image of NJ, take a leaf from the Russian playbook and erect a "Potemkin City" along that route. :D
Quote from: Syt on November 17, 2014, 09:12:47 AM
So why do Ukrainian go to New Jersey? Is it because the depressive, run down atmosphere, the pollution, and decaying towns and cities remind them of the Old CountryTM?
Populations beget populations, I suppose.
Baltimore has always had a very large Jewish population; when the Russian Jews were allowed to begin emigrating in the 1980's, a lot of them came here because of the Jewish community. Once the Soviet Union went the way of the carrier pigeon, Russians started to move here because of the Russian Jewish population: shared language, shops and grocers, community resources. Then the Byelorussians, etc.
Now I'm up to my ass in track suits.
Quote from: DGuller on November 17, 2014, 09:24:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 17, 2014, 09:12:47 AM
So why do Ukrainian go to New Jersey? Is it because the depressive, run down atmosphere, the pollution, and decaying towns and cities remind them of the Old CountryTM?
:mad: New Jersey is nice, if you just stay away from big cities or northern stretches of New Jersey Turnpike.
Which part do you live in?
Quote from: Syt on November 17, 2014, 09:12:47 AM
So why do Ukrainian go to New Jersey? Is it because the depressive, run down atmosphere, the pollution, and decaying towns and cities remind them of the Old CountryTM?
Despite vastly different histories and geographies, New Jersey and Eastern Europe are so much alike. Maybe you shouldn't be asking if eastern europeans move to New Jersey because it is like eastern europe, but if New Jersey like conditions are a consequence of eastern europeans. :hmm:
Quote from: alfred russel on November 17, 2014, 09:43:44 AM
Quote from: DGuller on November 17, 2014, 09:24:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 17, 2014, 09:12:47 AM
So why do Ukrainian go to New Jersey? Is it because the depressive, run down atmosphere, the pollution, and decaying towns and cities remind them of the Old CountryTM?
:mad: New Jersey is nice, if you just stay away from big cities or northern stretches of New Jersey Turnpike.
Which part do you live in?
:blush: Well, I dream of living in a nice part of New Jersey sometime.
I dream of Russians being sent back to vodka land.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 17, 2014, 09:39:34 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 17, 2014, 09:12:47 AM
So why do Ukrainian go to New Jersey? Is it because the depressive, run down atmosphere, the pollution, and decaying towns and cities remind them of the Old CountryTM?
Populations beget populations, I suppose.
Baltimore has always had a very large Jewish population; when the Russian Jews were allowed to begin emigrating in the 1980's, a lot of them came here because of the Jewish community. Once the Soviet Union went the way of the carrier pigeon, Russians started to move here because of the Russian Jewish population: shared language, shops and grocers, community resources. Then the Byelorussians, etc.
Now I'm up to my ass in track suits.
:nelson: We have zero track suits here.
Quote from: derspiess on November 17, 2014, 11:04:34 AM
:nelson: We have zero track suits here.
They just haven't made it that far west yet. :ph34r:
Quote from: DGuller on November 17, 2014, 09:59:51 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on November 17, 2014, 09:43:44 AM
Quote from: DGuller on November 17, 2014, 09:24:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 17, 2014, 09:12:47 AM
So why do Ukrainian go to New Jersey? Is it because the depressive, run down atmosphere, the pollution, and decaying towns and cities remind them of the Old CountryTM?
:mad: New Jersey is nice, if you just stay away from big cities or northern stretches of New Jersey Turnpike.
Which part do you live in?
:blush: Well, I dream of living in a nice part of New Jersey sometime.
The waterfront area (Newport/Exchange) is pretty fancy-schmansy as these things go.
Quote from: DGuller on November 17, 2014, 09:59:51 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on November 17, 2014, 09:43:44 AM
Quote from: DGuller on November 17, 2014, 09:24:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 17, 2014, 09:12:47 AM
So why do Ukrainian go to New Jersey? Is it because the depressive, run down atmosphere, the pollution, and decaying towns and cities remind them of the Old CountryTM?
:mad: New Jersey is nice, if you just stay away from big cities or northern stretches of New Jersey Turnpike.
Which part do you live in?
:blush: Well, I dream of living in a nice part of New Jersey sometime.
Such small dreams!
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 17, 2014, 11:13:52 AM
The waterfront area (Newport/Exchange) is pretty fancy-schmansy as these things go.
That is true, though they're a bit soulless, and high density living is not for everyone. I'd rather live in a place in New Jersey that's only accessible by car (and only during non-peak hours).
Quote from: garbon on November 17, 2014, 01:35:50 PM
Quote from: DGuller on November 17, 2014, 09:59:51 AM
:blush: Well, I dream of living in a nice part of New Jersey sometime.
Such small dreams!
I dunno man, the time machine might be a little hard to come by. :hmm:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 17, 2014, 01:52:35 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 17, 2014, 01:35:50 PM
Quote from: DGuller on November 17, 2014, 09:59:51 AM
:blush: Well, I dream of living in a nice part of New Jersey sometime.
Such small dreams!
I dunno man, the time machine might be a little hard to come by. :hmm:
Terrible! Cape May is a lovely place in NJ. :blush:
I just saw a thing about Atlantic City's casinos all closing. Will AC be a new Detroit?
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 17, 2014, 02:06:26 PM
I just saw a thing about Atlantic City's casinos all closing. Will AC be a new Detroit?
It wasn't much to start with.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 17, 2014, 02:06:26 PM
I just saw a thing about Atlantic City's casinos all closing. Will AC be a new Detroit?
It was already Detroit. Exhibit #1 how gambling is very bad for communities.
Las Vegas is thriving.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 17, 2014, 03:20:50 PM
Las Vegas is thriving.
I thought the city, beyond the strip, was having significant issues with foreclosures, very sluggish housing market?
Because they overbuilt. Still, it's grown over 40% since 2000.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 17, 2014, 02:07:40 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 17, 2014, 02:06:26 PM
I just saw a thing about Atlantic City's casinos all closing. Will AC be a new Detroit?
It wasn't much to start with.
:yes: The only reason to go to Atlantic City, unless you're interested in whores and/or losing money, is White House Subs. :mmm:
Quote from: DGuller on November 17, 2014, 03:11:45 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 17, 2014, 02:06:26 PM
I just saw a thing about Atlantic City's casinos all closing. Will AC be a new Detroit?
It was already Detroit. Exhibit #1 how gambling is very bad for communities.
My parents live within sight of the AC skyline... from a distance it looks nice at least. :)
I would guess AC will try to reinvent itself as some sort of a shore resort town, a la Myrtle Beach.
Atlantic City is a classic case of very bad governance, I would argue even more so than Detroit. Detroit fell on hard times due to change of economic fortunes, whereas Atlantic City was decomposing even while having a thriving monopoly on gambling. Even during the boom years, before other states around them foolishly started building casinos themselves, you had casinos on the Boardwalk, and then a scarily no-go area just a block away (or even in the dark alleys between casinos). Gambling companies just plundered AC while they could, and made sure that as little of the money they made as possible would go towards improvement of the city itself.
A naive person might assume that the local government would be in charge of that sort of thing.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 18, 2014, 03:03:44 PM
A naive person might assume that the local government would be in charge of that sort of thing.
A slightly less naive person might assume that local government would need revenue for that sort of thing.
A Compleat Moran might assume that AC could ever get anything right no matter the revenue.
Quote from: Jacob on November 18, 2014, 03:26:22 PM
A slightly less naive person might assume that local government would need revenue for that sort of thing.
A profoundly retarded person might assume that casinos can be set up in Atlantic City on any terms the developer likes.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 18, 2014, 03:34:48 PMA profoundly retarded person might assume that casinos can be set up in Atlantic City on any terms the developer likes.
It certainly would be foolish to assume you can get the terms you want without greasing the right palms and scratching the right backs.
Where is Jacob going with this?
Quote from: The Brain on November 18, 2014, 03:42:10 PM
Where is Jacob going with this?
Sounds like the full spa treatment.
You might think that. I couldn't possibly comment.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 18, 2014, 03:03:44 PM
A naive person might assume that the local government would be in charge of that sort of thing.
A less naive person might assume that gambling corporations would be in charge of the local government, if said corporations were responsible for virtually all economic activity.
Where I live the casinos have a ton of political power. But yet these AC casinos say they are closing due to high taxes.
Quote from: DGuller on November 18, 2014, 04:28:25 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 18, 2014, 03:03:44 PM
A naive person might assume that the local government would be in charge of that sort of thing.
A less naive person might assume that gambling corporations would be in charge of the local government, if said corporations were responsible for virtually all economic activity.
I believe Admiral Yi terms such a person "profoundly retarded".
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 18, 2014, 04:30:32 PM
But yet these AC casinos say they are closing due to high taxes.
That is laughable, but that excuse always is.
Quote from: DGuller on November 18, 2014, 04:28:25 PM
A less naive person might assume that gambling corporations would be in charge of the local government, if said corporations were responsible for virtually all economic activity.
As was the case in, say, Detroit?
Just saying that if they had as much power as they should have had then they wouldn't have allowed their taxes to get that high.
Quote from: alfred russel on November 17, 2014, 09:43:44 AM
Quote from: DGuller on November 17, 2014, 09:24:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 17, 2014, 09:12:47 AM
So why do Ukrainian go to New Jersey? Is it because the depressive, run down atmosphere, the pollution, and decaying towns and cities remind them of the Old CountryTM?
:mad: New Jersey is nice, if you just stay away from big cities or northern stretches of New Jersey Turnpike.
Which part do you live in?
One of the tall apartment building you can see from I-78 going from New Jersey to New York.
Quote from: Razgovory on November 18, 2014, 05:32:01 PM
One of the tall apartment building you can see from I-78 going from New Jersey to New York.
Are you watching his building on Google Earth right now? :ph34r:
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 18, 2014, 05:46:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 18, 2014, 05:32:01 PM
One of the tall apartment building you can see from I-78 going from New Jersey to New York.
Are you watching his building on Google Earth right now? :ph34r:
He is but the people aren't doing anything. It's pretty boring.
A couple of years ago, when I kept getting in arguments with Yi, DG suggested I stop "stalking", Yi. So I did.
:rolleyes:
Quote from: DGuller on November 18, 2014, 09:13:50 AM
Atlantic City is a classic case of very bad governance, I would argue even more so than Detroit. Detroit fell on hard times due to change of economic fortunes, whereas Atlantic City was decomposing even while having a thriving monopoly on gambling. Even during the boom years, before other states around them foolishly started building casinos themselves, you had casinos on the Boardwalk, and then a scarily no-go area just a block away (or even in the dark alleys between casinos). Gambling companies just plundered AC while they could, and made sure that as little of the money they made as possible would go towards improvement of the city itself.
It certainly didn't help AC's cause that the Mafia has run that town since well before legalized gambling started in '76. With the mob machine already in place when the casinos started opening, what a shock that somehow none of the money invested seemed to go toward urban development and renewal... :hmm:
Anything else you would like me to do?
Quote from: Razgovory on November 18, 2014, 07:37:24 PM
Anything else you would like me to do?
Punch Tim in the balls.
Quote from: Razgovory on November 18, 2014, 07:37:24 PM
Anything else you would like me to do?
Raz G. Ovory, will you please go now!
Quote from: Caliga on November 18, 2014, 07:37:00 PMIt certainly didn't help AC's cause that the Mafia has run that town since well before legalized gambling started in '76. With the mob machine already in place when the casinos started opening, what a shock that somehow none of the money invested seemed to go toward urban development and renewal... :hmm:
If you count the mafia's cut, I'm sure the total "taxes" were pretty hard to manage. :P
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 18, 2014, 03:03:44 PM
A naive person might assume that the local government would be in charge of that sort of thing.
A corrupt local government? In New Jersey?
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