Well, at least parts of cities. :P
US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/5516536/US-cities-may-have-to-be-bulldozed-in-order-to-survive.html)
QuoteDozens of US cities may have entire neighbourhoods bulldozed as part of drastic "shrink to survive" proposals being considered by the Obama administration to tackle economic decline.
By Tom Leonard in Flint, Michigan
Published: 6:30PM BST 12 Jun 2009
The government looking at expanding a pioneering scheme in Flint, one of the poorest US cities, which involves razing entire districts and returning the land to nature.
Local politicians believe the city must contract by as much as 40 per cent, concentrating the dwindling population and local services into a more viable area.
The radical experiment is the brainchild of Dan Kildee, treasurer of Genesee County, which includes Flint.
Having outlined his strategy to Barack Obama during the election campaign, Mr Kildee has now been approached by the US government and a group of charities who want him to apply what he has learnt to the rest of the country.
Mr Kildee said he will concentrate on 50 cities, identified in a recent study by the Brookings Institution, an influential Washington think-tank, as potentially needing to shrink substantially to cope with their declining fortunes.
Most are former industrial cities in the "rust belt" of America's Mid-West and North East. They include Detroit, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Memphis.
In Detroit, shattered by the woes of the US car industry, there are already plans to split it into a collection of small urban centres separated from each other by countryside.
"The real question is not whether these cities shrink – we're all shrinking – but whether we let it happen in a destructive or sustainable way," said Mr Kildee. "Decline is a fact of life in Flint. Resisting it is like resisting gravity."
Karina Pallagst, director of the Shrinking Cities in a Global Perspective programme at the University of California, Berkeley, said there was "both a cultural and political taboo" about admitting decline in America.
"Places like Flint have hit rock bottom. They're at the point where it's better to start knocking a lot of buildings down," she said.
Flint, sixty miles north of Detroit, was the original home of General Motors. The car giant once employed 79,000 local people but that figure has shrunk to around 8,000.
Unemployment is now approaching 20 per cent and the total population has almost halved to 110,000.
The exodus – particularly of young people – coupled with the consequent collapse in property prices, has left street after street in sections of the city almost entirely abandoned.
In the city centre, the once grand Durant Hotel – named after William Durant, GM's founder – is a symbol of the city's decline, said Mr Kildee. The large building has been empty since 1973, roughly when Flint's decline began.
Regarded as a model city in the motor industry's boom years, Flint may once again be emulated, though for very different reasons.
But Mr Kildee, who has lived there nearly all his life, said he had first to overcome a deeply ingrained American cultural mindset that "big is good" and that cities should sprawl – Flint covers 34 square miles.
He said: "The obsession with growth is sadly a very American thing. Across the US, there's an assumption that all development is good, that if communities are growing they are successful. If they're shrinking, they're failing."
But some Flint dustcarts are collecting just one rubbish bag a week, roads are decaying, police are very understaffed and there were simply too few people to pay for services, he said.
If the city didn't downsize it will eventually go bankrupt, he added.
Flint's recovery efforts have been helped by a new state law passed a few years ago which allowed local governments to buy up empty properties very cheaply.
They could then knock them down or sell them on to owners who will occupy them. The city wants to specialise in health and education services, both areas which cannot easily be relocated abroad.
The local authority has restored the city's attractive but formerly deserted centre but has pulled down 1,100 abandoned homes in outlying areas.
Mr Kildee estimated another 3,000 needed to be demolished, although the city boundaries will remain the same.
Already, some streets peter out into woods or meadows, no trace remaining of the homes that once stood there.
Choosing which areas to knock down will be delicate but many of them were already obvious, he said.
The city is buying up houses in more affluent areas to offer people in neighbourhoods it wants to demolish. Nobody will be forced to move, said Mr Kildee.
"Much of the land will be given back to nature. People will enjoy living near a forest or meadow," he said.
Mr Kildee acknowledged that some fellow Americans considered his solution "defeatist" but he insisted it was "no more defeatist than pruning an overgrown tree so it can bear fruit again".
That's a great idea. Economies need to be rebuilt from the local level, upwards. Start by having most of your food being grown, raised, farmed locally (or sorta nearby, in the same country at least) and products being created, made locally. If a thriving economy can be re-created by actually having Made in The USA/ Made in Canada mean something again ... that... that would be awesome.
I'm not particularly convinced that physical sprawl is the main problem afflicting decaying industrial cities, or that reducing sprawl will help address the other problems.
Quote from: dps on June 14, 2009, 12:22:13 PM
I'm not particularly convinced that physical sprawl is the main problem afflicting decaying industrial cities, or that reducing sprawl will help address the other problems.
Getting rid of abandoned buildings should cut down on crime though.
Quote from: dps on June 14, 2009, 12:22:13 PM
I'm not particularly convinced that physical sprawl is the main problem afflicting decaying industrial cities, or that reducing sprawl will help address the other problems.
It should improve the budget balance, though, when they need to maintain a smaller infrastructure.
Besides, what should they do to stop people from moving away or brining new folks in?
Burn it all down and start building the arcologies.
What we need is one big Devil's Night.
Quote from: dps on June 14, 2009, 12:22:13 PM
I'm not particularly convinced that physical sprawl is the main problem afflicting decaying industrial cities, or that reducing sprawl will help address the other problems.
It will help rebuild property values. It will help reduce crime, and cut down on infrastructure costs.
It could work...
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on June 14, 2009, 12:19:21 PM
That's a great idea. Economies need to be rebuilt from the local level, upwards. Start by having most of your food being grown, raised, farmed locally (or sorta nearby, in the same country at least) and products being created, made locally. If a thriving economy can be re-created by actually having Made in The USA/ Made in Canada mean something again ... that... that would be awesome.
Top down is better.
So why would the federal government be involved with this? Can't the Flint city council or mayor or whoever just decide to do it?
Quote from: Zanza2 on June 14, 2009, 01:37:28 PM
So why would the federal government be involved with this?
There's no telling what dangers lie beneath the rubble.
Quote from: DisturbedPervert on June 14, 2009, 01:40:17 PM
Quote from: Zanza2 on June 14, 2009, 01:37:28 PM
So why would the federal government be involved with this?
There's no telling what dangers lie beneath the rubble.
Funny you'd mention this. A town in Holstein wanted to raze an abandoned Bundeswehr base and soon realized they couldn't, because the base was built on top of an old tannery; the whole soil under the asphalt/concrete is very likely to teem with anthrax and other funny germs.
Sounds like a good Five Year Plan :)
As long as they raze Michael Moore's childhood home I'm happy.
Good idea.
Not entirely without historical precedent either; I can think of several historic cities that have these days shrunk down to virtually nothing as the world moved on and left them behind.
Quote from: Zanza2 on June 14, 2009, 01:37:28 PM
So why would the federal government be involved with this? Can't the Flint city council or mayor or whoever just decide to do it?
Cities like free money. Obama likes to give free money.
I favor bulldozing Michigan.
The Appian way has fallen into disrepair:
http://www.wwmt.com/articles/roads-1363526-mich-counties.html
QuoteLANSING, Mich. (AP) - Some Michigan counties have turned a few once-paved rural roads back to gravel to save money.
More than 20 of the state's 83 counties have reverted deteriorating paved roads to gravel in the last few years, according to the County Road Association of Michigan. The counties are struggling with their budgets because tax revenues have declined in the lingering recession.
Montcalm County converted nearly 10 miles of primary road to gravel this spring.
The county estimates it takes about $10,000 to grind up a mile of pavement and put down gravel. It takes more than $100,000 to repave a mile of road.
Reverting to gravel has happened in a few other states but it is most typical in Michigan. At least 50 miles have been reverted in the state in the past three years.
Time to stock up on food and ammo. The country is falling apart.
Gravel roads are a sign of the collapse?
Someone should tell Yukon Dep't of Highways...
Quote from: Barrister on June 14, 2009, 03:08:35 PM
Gravel roads are a sign of the collapse?
Someone should tell Yukon Dep't of Highways...
You have to have civilization before it can collapse.
Quote from: Barrister on June 14, 2009, 03:08:35 PM
Gravel roads are a sign of the collapse?
Someone should tell Yukon Dep't of Highways...
Nobody cares what goes on in the Client Kingdoms. Goddamn uppity canucks.
:blink: What the hell is going on in this country?
Nooooooo! Not Perkins!
QuotePerkins Restaurant and Bakery. Company accountants could probably use some of the comfort food on the menu at this diner-style franchise, which has about 500 locations, mostly in the Midwest. Like other restaurants, Perkins has been able to cut food costs since they soared in 2007. But revenue has fallen, and the parent firm lost $9.7 million in the first quarter. S&P says the firm's liquidity position is "tenuous." With market share of just 8 percent, Perkins is more vulnerable to a lousy economy that competitors like Denny's (22 percent market share) and IHOP (19 percent). Perkins also owns the Marie Callender's Restaurant and Bakery chain, which suffers from similar financial burdens. Plus, Marie Callender is based in hard-hit California, which has been hammered by the housing bust.
A company spokesperson says Perkins has cut expenses by $7.3 million to help shore up its finances, delayed some remodeling, and called a halt to expansion.
Where will I get my pancakes in a non-herpes enviroment?
QuoteThey include Detroit, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Baltimore and Memphis.
Hear, hear. I say start alphabetically.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 14, 2009, 12:27:47 PM
Quote from: dps on June 14, 2009, 12:22:13 PM
I'm not particularly convinced that physical sprawl is the main problem afflicting decaying industrial cities, or that reducing sprawl will help address the other problems.
Getting rid of abandoned buildings should cut down on crime though.
Yes, yes it would. At my job, we spend a lot of early mornings (we start at 5:00 am) clearing abandoned buildings looking for absconders. The average abandoned building in Rochester has 3-5 druggies, 1-2 prostitutes, and usually 1-2 people wanted for something by law enforcement. Now multiply that by the 2,800 abandoned buildings within the city limits and that's a lot of little "crime" zones.
Quote from: Barrister on June 14, 2009, 03:08:35 PM
Gravel roads are a sign of the collapse?
Someone should tell Yukon Dep't of Highways...
The Yukon is uninhabited. There's no reason for them to have decent highways. Michigan is heavily populated. It needs an efficient transport system in order to ensure the efficient distribution of goods and skilled workers.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 14, 2009, 03:10:41 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 14, 2009, 03:08:35 PM
Gravel roads are a sign of the collapse?
Someone should tell Yukon Dep't of Highways...
You have to have civilization before it can collapse.
:lol:
I think it's a great idea, I think I suggested it in the Detroit thread myself. City slums are like gangrenous extremities, and are best removed.
Come to think of it, Hansy might be right.. Barack Hussein might succede where Saddam Hussein failed, and flatten a US city.
I like it! Thumpsup!
Quote from: Neil on June 14, 2009, 04:36:10 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 14, 2009, 03:08:35 PM
Gravel roads are a sign of the collapse?
Someone should tell Yukon Dep't of Highways...
The Yukon is uninhabited. There's no reason for them to have decent highways. Michigan is heavily populated. It needs an efficient transport system in order to ensure the efficient distribution of goods and skilled workers.
Gravel is highly efficient. :Canuck:
Quote from: Barrister on June 14, 2009, 07:42:48 PM
Quote from: Neil on June 14, 2009, 04:36:10 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 14, 2009, 03:08:35 PM
Gravel roads are a sign of the collapse?
Someone should tell Yukon Dep't of Highways...
The Yukon is uninhabited. There's no reason for them to have decent highways. Michigan is heavily populated. It needs an efficient transport system in order to ensure the efficient distribution of goods and skilled workers.
Gravel is highly efficient. :Canuck:
Only for places that can't afford pavement.
its a good idea as it will reduce tax bills/ waste and have many other social and environmental benefits.