I'm stunned, literally flabbergasted that they didn't do this in the early 90s.
http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-poland-move-1-000s-troops-east-135941131.html
Quote
Poland in defense shift as security concerns rise
Associated Press
By MONIKA SCISLOWSKA 4 hours ago
WARSAW, Poland (AP) — Poland is planning a major realignment of its military structure because of the conflict in neighboring Ukraine, the country's defense minister said Monday, a move that could shift thousands of troops to its eastern border.
"The geopolitical situation has changed. We have the biggest crisis of security since the Cold War and we must draw conclusions from that," Polish Defense Minister Tomasz Siemoniak told The Associated Press.
Although Poland joined NATO in 1999, most of its 120,000-member army is based along the country's western border, as a relic of its former status as a Soviet bloc member.
That is going to change, Siemoniak said, adding that at least three military bases in the east will increase from the current 30 percent of capacity to almost 90 percent by the end of 2017. That's a potential increase of thousands of troops, although Siemoniak wouldn't specify a precise overall figure.
Up to 400 jobs would be filled in the air defense unit in Siedlce alone by 2017, he said.
"I believe that what happened to the east of Poland does not represent a threat to us for the next months, or two or three or five years. It is a need to draw conclusions for the decades to come," he added in explaining the large scope of the plans.
The announcement follows a visit by U.S. President Barack Obama to Estonia last month in which he urged NATO members to do more to assist Ukraine.
There was no immediate reaction in Moscow to the planned Polish military moves. The Russian government may be reluctant to criticize Poland since Russia had insisted on the right to position its forces as it wishes within its own country when confronted by the West over the deployment of Russian troops along the Ukrainian border.
Charles Heyman, editor of the Armed Forces of the United Kingdom publication, said Poland's eastward movement is "part and parcel" of a larger NATO re-deployment.
"We'll see other NATO nations probably stationing troops in Poland on a permanent basis as well," he said. "Not large numbers, but maybe a small NATO brigade of 2,500 that would be rotated every six months."
He said this would make it clear to Russia that "there are red lines that cannot be crossed."
"It gives the other side a message: You've gone far enough," he said.
In a restructuring after Poland became a democracy in 1989, the number of troops was gradually cut down from some 400,000 and the draft was discontinued, basing the armed forces on career officers and enlisted troops. Ever-limited means have been spent on upgrading the units, rather than on restructuring the whole infrastructure. Poland intends to increase its spending on the army to 2 percent of its GDP starting in 2016, from the current 1.95 percent.
Wedged between Germany and Russia, Poland has been the site of invasion and warfare. It was carved up by Nazi Germany and then-Soviet Union at the start of World War II, leading to the death of some 6 million of its citizens. Liberated by the Soviet Red Army, it was put under Moscow's domination for decades of communist rule after the war.
Poles value the independence they regained after the peaceful ouster of communism in 1989 and are worried by the Russia-Ukraine conflict.
"People have realized that security does matter and that you cannot forget about the army," Siemoniak said. "No one wants war."
___
Associated Press reporters Lynn Berry in Moscow, Peter Leonard in Kiev and Greg Katz in London contributed to this report.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 28, 2014, 01:32:38 AM
I'm stunned, literally flabbergasted that they didn't do this in the early 90s.
Why? Stuff like this costs money and there were much more pressing concerns in the 90s (like, saving the country from bankruptcy). It wasn't until the shit in Georgia that anyone here thought we might be facing a military conflict in any foreseeable future.
Besides, as the article says, the money was spent on upgrading the units, as the doctrine was that the troops will be used in international conflicts such as Afghanistan or Iraq, so there is little difference if you airlift them from Siedlce or Szczecin.
Quote from: Martinus on October 28, 2014, 01:36:02 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 28, 2014, 01:32:38 AM
I'm stunned, literally flabbergasted that they didn't do this in the early 90s.
Why?
Tim is easily flabbergasted. It's pretty much his natural state.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-xsg09QQnCxI%2FUiapXU1gTYI%2FAAAAAAAAdF8%2FVw60Rwheyzc%2Fs400%2Fflabbergasted-cat.jpg&hash=fca30eda3943527d24aa639479fbd56b30424db5)
Quote from: Martinus on October 28, 2014, 01:36:02 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 28, 2014, 01:32:38 AM
I'm stunned, literally flabbergasted that they didn't do this in the early 90s.
Why? Stuff like this costs money and there were much more pressing concerns in the 90s (like, saving the country from bankruptcy). It wasn't until the shit in Georgia that anyone here thought we might be facing a military conflict in any foreseeable future.
Besides, as the article says, the money was spent on upgrading the units, as the doctrine was that the troops will be used in international conflicts such as Afghanistan or Iraq, so there is little difference if you airlift them from Siedlce or Szczecin.
Plus, the employees at those bases don't want to move.
Has Poland changed, or started to change, its military equipment from Russian to western or other equipment, tanks, planes, small arms, etc?
Yes. The polish army uses modern Western equipment but still has a great deal of older Eastern equipment.
Quote from: KRonn on October 28, 2014, 09:48:38 AM
Has Poland changed, or started to change, its military equipment from Russian to western or other equipment, tanks, planes, small arms, etc?
No, we sent a bunch of 1980s Russian equipment to Afghanistan and Iraq.
Tim has a child like mentality towards military matters, logistics and the world in general.
What a putz.
But seriously, Poland is one of the very few European NATO countries that is fulfilling its alliance obligations when it comes to military spending. I understand we have pretty much state of the art special forces. The general military is still lagging behind but we have been in the transition from the draft based to the professional model for the last few years.
From wikipedia:
QuoteThe Polish military continues to use mostly Soviet-era equipment; however, since joining NATO in 1999, Poland has been upgrading and modernizing its hardware to NATO standards. The General Staff has been reorganized into a NATO-compatible J/G-1 through J/G-6 structure. Recent modernization projects include the acquisition of (48) F-16 fighter jets from the United States, (128) Leopard 2 MBTs from Germany, ATGM technology from Israel (as well as possible future acquisition of Rafael Python 5 missiles), and (690) Patria AMV AFVs from Finland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipment_of_the_Polish_Army
Quote from: KRonn on October 28, 2014, 09:48:38 AM
Has Poland changed, or started to change, its military equipment from Russian to western or other equipment, tanks, planes, small arms, etc?
Call it 1/3 old soviet stuff, 1/3 polish upgrades to old soviet designs and 1/3 NATO standard equipment
Poland has long had problems with the proper deployment of military assets even the ones that are Western in origin. For instance, This German designed submarine is poorly positioned in a city street making it more difficult to interdict enemy shipping in case of war.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F6NP32VQ.jpg&hash=265c62676659f83ff18dd7998009b64acd8abe38)
Lolz.
opening....screen door
so thats where tha russian sub in sweden got to...
Quote from: Viking on October 28, 2014, 10:13:08 AM
Quote from: KRonn on October 28, 2014, 09:48:38 AM
Has Poland changed, or started to change, its military equipment from Russian to western or other equipment, tanks, planes, small arms, etc?
Call it 1/3 old soviet stuff, 1/3 polish upgrades to old soviet designs and 1/3 NATO standard equipment
Plus their own domestically produced upgraded Soviet design stuff is being brought up to NATO standards. Like the Beryl rifle, which is unmistakably an AK design but fires 5.56 NATO and has all sorts of rails for scopes and other fun stuff.
Q: How do you take census in a Polish village?
A: Roll a quarter down the street, count the legs, divide by two, and subtract one for the Jew who catches it.
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 28, 2014, 10:22:03 AM
Lolz.
opening....screen door
That's the reason they put it in the street - it kept sinking when put in water. :P
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 28, 2014, 10:22:03 AM
Lolz.
opening....screen door
Lvlz.
"One ping only, Wiktor."
PING PING PING PING PING PING PING PING PING PING
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 28, 2014, 10:42:34 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 28, 2014, 10:22:03 AM
Lolz.
opening....screen door
Lvlz.
"One ping only, Wiktor."
PING PING PING PING PING PING PING PING PING PING
Boleslaw would try to call China.
THERE ARE SO MANY PINGS IN THE PHONEBOOK
Quote from: Martinus on October 28, 2014, 10:42:00 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 28, 2014, 10:22:03 AM
Lolz.
opening....screen door
That's the reason they put it in the street - it kept sinking when put in water. :P
See, Polish jokes write themselves!