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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Sheilbh on August 26, 2014, 04:13:54 PM

Title: China Tips
Post by: Sheilbh on August 26, 2014, 04:13:54 PM
I'm maybe planning on going to China for a couple of weeks in about six months to a year.

As normally happens to kick-start a desire to travel I've been hoovering up books on China. Also everyone I know who's been absolutely loved it so I'll assume I'm going to go again. I'm also quite a lazy traveller.

Now I'm trying to plan an interesting-ish itinerary so I can work out how much money I need.

Given all that and the fact that China's massive, rather than doing a whistle-stop of everywhere I think it might be better to do a whistle-stop of a particular region. If I do like China then I plan to do a Western (Gansu, Xinjiang etc) and a South-Western (Sichuan, Yunnan, Hunan) trip at some point.

So basically I'm torn between flying into Hong Kong/Shanghai and doing a sort of Southern China and Eastern seaboard tour, or flying into Beijing and doing a Yellow River plains tour. Looking at the guidebooks I think I'd try and fly to a few major cities internally and then if there's a site out of town travel to that because, alas, I don't have the time for long-distance trains and buses any more :(

Thoughts? Suggested stops? Which region would you go for?

I'm interested in food, history and the outdoors. I'm perfectly willing to accept the last is a pipe dream on a trip like this :lol:

Jacob, Mono, PP I'm look at you :contract:
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Jacob on August 26, 2014, 04:48:01 PM
Well, I'm basically obliged to say you should do the Sichuan (and Hunan/ Yunnan) part first. Not that Xinjang etc isn't going to be spectacular, but well...

Honestly, my number one piece of advice for travelling in China (and anywhere else in Asia, and possibly elsewhere), is to line up as many local contacts as possible. Can you track down any kind of friends or contacts or friends of contacts? The whole experience completely changes when you get someone local to take an interest in your visit, in my experience.

I'll have a bit of a chat with my wife and get some specific pointers. For Sichuan the big things to check out are jiaguaizhou, the panda research centre, and the food. I can possibly-maybe hook you up with someone in Chengdu to show you around a bit, maybe....
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Sheilbh on August 26, 2014, 04:52:01 PM
Could possibly get some help in Nanjing and from expats in Hong Kong...Which suggests Sheilbh's Southern Tour.
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Jacob on August 26, 2014, 04:58:35 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 26, 2014, 04:52:01 PM
Could possibly get some help in Nanjing and from expats in Hong Kong...Which suggests Sheilbh's Southern Tour.

Hong Kong though...

I mean, I LOVE Hong Kong. It's a world class city with tons of charm and things going on, but if it's going to be "Sheilbh's China Trip" then Hong Kong is by far the least adventurous. And the whole "Hong Kong expat" scene is very much its own thing too. It could very easily end up becoming the trip where you're their relief, rather than them being your facilitator to seeing wonderful new things.

If you've got contacts in Nanjing, or your Hong Kong expats have contacts outside of Hong Kong, milk it for all it's worth. But Hong Kong is a place to visit for business or shopping or to take a break if you've had too much China already.

Though you could meet Mono, which is a bonus :)
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Barrister on August 26, 2014, 05:04:15 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 26, 2014, 04:58:35 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 26, 2014, 04:52:01 PM
Could possibly get some help in Nanjing and from expats in Hong Kong...Which suggests Sheilbh's Southern Tour.

Hong Kong though...

I mean, I LOVE Hong Kong. It's a world class city with tons of charm and things going on, but if it's going to be "Sheilbh's China Trip" then Hong Kong is by far the least adventurous. And the whole "Hong Kong expat" scene is very much its own thing too. It could very easily end up becoming the trip where you're their relief, rather than them being your facilitator to seeing wonderful new things.

If you've got contacts in Nanjing, or your Hong Kong expats have contacts outside of Hong Kong, milk it for all it's worth. But Hong Kong is a place to visit for business or shopping or to take a break if you've had too much China already.

Though you could meet Mono, which is a bonus :)

I've got no opinion on the ultimate question, but if this is Shelf's first trip to China what's wrong with going to the "least adventurous" part of it?  I know my first trip out of North America was deliberately to the UK, where we'd know the language.  It seemed the safest (and since then we've gotten bolder).
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: derspiess on August 26, 2014, 05:05:16 PM
Thought you were gonna tell us about your latest manicure.
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Sheilbh on August 26, 2014, 05:12:37 PM
Oh yeah. I'm a little dubious of the Hong Kong expat scene for precisely that reason.

But from London I'd probably fly to either Hong Kong or Beijing and then get internal flights around as much as possible and if not sleeper trains.

So with Beijing I was thinking of Xi'an, Chengde and maybe Ji'nan to visit Qufu or Tai Shan.

With Hong Kong I though Shanghai, Nanjing and maybe either Tunxi (and the villages round Yixian or Huang Shan) or Fuzhou (for Wuyi Shan).

I'm thinking, if I like China and everyone I know who's been does, then I'll go back and do the rest including the West and Sichuan (especially Sichan and Hunan for the food). For now I'm basically thinking either Yellow River or Yangzi River.
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Sheilbh on August 26, 2014, 05:21:03 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 26, 2014, 05:04:15 PM
I've got no opinion on the ultimate question, but if this is Shelf's first trip to China what's wrong with going to the "least adventurous" part of it?  I know my first trip out of North America was deliberately to the UK, where we'd know the language.  It seemed the safest (and since then we've gotten bolder).
For me, I'm a young man so I'm as well placed as you can be to enjoy adventure. Also I know at some point I'll visit Hong Kong, so I feel a little more comfortable putting it off.

So I'm kind of leaning to the North but I've no idea what sort of itinerary to construct, or is even reasonable - admittedly I don't with any other area either, which is part of the fun.
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Jacob on August 26, 2014, 05:28:12 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 26, 2014, 05:04:15 PM
I've got no opinion on the ultimate question, but if this is Shelf's first trip to China what's wrong with going to the "least adventurous" part of it?  I know my first trip out of North America was deliberately to the UK, where we'd know the language.  It seemed the safest (and since then we've gotten bolder).

Nothing wrong with that, if that's how you're rolling. You can dip your toes in first.

However, from the way Sheilbh put it I didn't get the impression that he was looking for the "least adventurous" approach. It seemed to me that he wanted as much of the China flavour as possible, so I thought I'd recommend him going to the mainland.

... he did, after all, ask my opinion :)
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Sheilbh on August 26, 2014, 05:29:35 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 26, 2014, 05:28:12 PMIt seemed to me that he wanted as much of the China flavour as possible, so I thought I'd recommend him going to the mainland.
Yeah. what can I do in two weeks (roughly) that'll allow me to see different things and try and soak up at least a bit of each place.
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Jacob on August 26, 2014, 05:41:16 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 26, 2014, 05:12:37 PM
Oh yeah. I'm a little dubious of the Hong Kong expat scene for precisely that reason.

Yeah, I've spent some time in Hong Kong, with locals and with expats, and met HK expats overseas as well. It seems very much to be about making the experience as not-Hong Kong as possible.

QuoteBut from London I'd probably fly to either Hong Kong or Beijing and then get internal flights around as much as possible and if not sleeper trains.

I guess the other possible major city of entry is Shanghai.

If you fly one of the Chinese airlines, esp. Air China, you may get some cheaper internal tickets as well. Worth looking into when the time comes.

QuoteSo with Beijing I was thinking of Xi'an, Chengde and maybe Ji'nan to visit Qufu or Tai Shan.

With Hong Kong I though Shanghai, Nanjing and maybe either Tunxi (and the villages round Yixian or Huang Shan) or Fuzhou (for Wuyi Shan).

I'm thinking, if I like China and everyone I know who's been does, then I'll go back and do the rest including the West and Sichuan (especially Sichan and Hunan for the food). For now I'm basically thinking either Yellow River or Yangzi River.

Yeah, I can't really give too many recommendations on itineraries. I've spent a fair bit of time in Chengdu and vicinity, as well as Hong Kong; I've sent a bit of time in Beijing and Shanghai and environs as well, but I haven't really done a tourist itinerary per se - I've always been travelling for other reasons.

Keep us updated, though :)
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Monoriu on August 26, 2014, 07:25:04 PM
I think you should very much consider trains as a viable travel means.  China has built a high speed rail network and it is very good.  I strongly suggest that you go to Shanghai because (1) the city itself is very nice and (2) you can take the high speed rail to the very interesting Jiangnan region, like Hangzhou, Suzhou and lots of other places.  Those cities are like an hour apart from each other if you take the rail.  Hangzhou is one of the most famous tourist places in China, and we go there like once a year.  The West Lake is a must-see, and there is a reason why all the dear leaders have built villas there. 

I am of course obliged to suggest Hong Kong as well, though I am of course biased :contract:

In terms of food and restaurants, I can reliably recommend up-to-date and good places in Beijing, Shanghai, Hangzhou, Guangzhou and Hong Kong.  I know next to nothing about Sichuan though.  Never been there. 
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 26, 2014, 08:53:29 PM
I've got plenty of tips on China.  Feel free to subscribe to my newsletter.
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Monoriu on August 26, 2014, 10:28:40 PM
Beijing - Great Wall, Forbidden City, Tiananmen Square (it has to be seen to be believed - it is massive), Temple of Heaven, Summer Palace, Olympic Park, Prince Gong Mansion (He-shen's residence, richest man in China and the world), 789 art zone, Peking duck (I suggest Tung's), best Xinjiang food I've tasted (all the provinces have Beijing offices.  The best Xinjiang food is found at Xinjiang's Beijing office), Qianmen Street (shopping district).

Shanghai - The Bund, People's Park (not to see the park itself, but to see the thousands of parents trying to find wives/husbands for their kids).

Hangzhou - West Lake.  All of it.  Take a boat ride.  Walk along the shores.  Hu Xueyan's residence (remember: he put all his gold in a chamber underneath the tea pantry where his servants work.  Hidden in plain sight).  Longjing tea fields.  If you go to Hangzhou, there are 3 restaurants that I highly recommend - the one in Four Seasons, the one in Hyatt Hotel, and this one-

http://www.dianping.com/shop/2079781

It is incredibly difficult to get a legal taxi in Hangzhou.  Everybody takes the illegal ones.  If you behave like you need a taxi, someone will approach you.  Don't worry, I survived  ;)

Suzhou - Humble Administrator's Garden.

Hong Kong - The Peak for harbour view, Giant Buddha on Lantou Island (plus Ngong Ping 360 cable car ride.  Take it, don't take the bus), traditional wet markets, the flea markets and Temple Street in Mong Kok, the chance to meet me, Chi Nin Nunnery, Wetland Park and Mai Po Bio-reserves (need to make reservation beforehand), Luk Yu Tea House, International Commerce Centre observation floor (Kowloon side, not International Financial Centre on HK side.  An alternative is to have afternoon tea in Ritz Carlton which is two floors above the observation floor.  Costs more but the line is shorter), Tai O stilt houses, Disneyland and Ocean Park if you are into amusement parks (Disneyland in HK is the smallest one in the world), Lung King Heen (best Chinese food in HK, inside Four Seasons hotel, michelin 3 stars), Fook Lam Moon (best shark's fin soup if you like it), Lan Kwai Fong for the bars and expat gathering area, Stanley, Repulse Bay, Tai Tam Country Park for the antique water facilities and nice views (and mono-level hiking), HK Geopark for the hexagonal volcanic...stones, Star Ferry for mini-harbour cruise, Harbour City in Tsim Sha Tsui and Causeway Bay for shopping.

Macau - Historic city centre, gambling, House of Dancing Water (it is a show), nice restaurants.
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Josquius on August 27, 2014, 04:53:25 AM
Going to Hong Kong does seem a bit of a waste of a China trip given Chinese visas are a complete pain in the arse to get hold of whilst HKdoesn't need them.
HK would be best grouped into a HK-Taiwan-Japan/Korea trip rather than China imo.
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Sheilbh on August 28, 2014, 05:27:04 PM
I don't really fancy Taiwan/Japan/Korea to be honest. Maybe one day.

And as I say Hong Kong's a cheap flight. It's £100 cheaper than Shanghai, from what I've seen, so if I go to Southern China/Yangzi area it'll be through Hong Kong :P

How's this for a trip:
Hong Kong - Xiamen - Wuyi Shan - Shanghai - Shaoxing - Hangzhou - Suzhou - Hong Kong.

Is that plausible for 2-3 weeks?
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 28, 2014, 06:01:09 PM
I never recommend Korea as a tourist destination.
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Jacob on August 28, 2014, 07:03:08 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 28, 2014, 06:01:09 PM
I never recommend Korea as a tourist destination.

It's not bad as a business destination, though.
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Jacob on August 28, 2014, 07:05:14 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 28, 2014, 05:27:04 PM
I don't really fancy Taiwan/Japan/Korea to be honest. Maybe one day.

I never fancied Taiwan either, but I fell in love with Taipei when I was there.

Japan is its own thing.

QuoteAnd as I say Hong Kong's a cheap flight. It's £100 cheaper than Shanghai, from what I've seen, so if I go to Southern China/Yangzi area it'll be through Hong Kong :P

How's this for a trip:
Hong Kong - Xiamen - Wuyi Shan - Shanghai - Shaoxing - Hangzhou - Suzhou - Hong Kong.

Is that plausible for 2-3 weeks?

... don't know.

But Hong Kong as a jumping off point is good.
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Sheilbh on August 28, 2014, 07:12:41 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 28, 2014, 07:05:14 PMI never fancied Taiwan either, but I fell in love with Taipei when I was there.
Yeah. As I say, one day.

I've never really fancied most of South-East Asia either. Indonesia and the Philippines appeal but not so much. Though I've no doubt I'd love it if I ever go.

QuoteJapan is its own thing.
Yeah. I've got a friend who's a Japanese translator and will, inevitably, end up back there for extended periods. So I imagine I'll visit then - also when I'm earning a bit more.
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Monoriu on August 28, 2014, 07:13:42 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 28, 2014, 05:27:04 PM
I don't really fancy Taiwan/Japan/Korea to be honest. Maybe one day.

And as I say Hong Kong's a cheap flight. It's £100 cheaper than Shanghai, from what I've seen, so if I go to Southern China/Yangzi area it'll be through Hong Kong :P

How's this for a trip:
Hong Kong - Xiamen - Wuyi Shan - Shanghai - Shaoxing - Hangzhou - Suzhou - Hong Kong.

Is that plausible for 2-3 weeks?

This is good for 3 weeks, but too rushed for 2 weeks. 

I've been to Xiamen and I was a bit disappointed.  Beijing is a lot better.  If I were you, I'd not worry too much about geographic proximity.  Beijing is a must-see if you are not familiar with China. 

The flight from HK to Xiamen is about an hour.  From HK to Beijing is 3 hours without delays.  It is only an additional 2 hours, but Beijing is light years ahead in terms of tourist attractions and food. 
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Monoriu on August 28, 2014, 07:15:48 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 28, 2014, 06:01:09 PM
I never recommend Korea as a tourist destination.

I agree  :ph34r:
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Sheilbh on August 28, 2014, 07:24:33 PM
Cheers again, guys. Also any local delicacies for these places Mono?

Xiamen is really a stop-off to go to Wuyi Shan because (I think) there's flights between the two. Though I kind of fancy visiting the island.

I get what you're saying about Beijing but I'll already be rushing. I want to spend 3-4 days in Shanghai and Hong Kong, if I throw in Beijing too it makes any other trips even shorter.

As I say I think I'll go back. The way I look at it is that China's as big as Europe and there's lots that's unmissable that I will miss. For example if I'm heading from, say, Shanghai to Beijing surely it'd be crap to miss Xi'an too?

I'd rather try and do numerous concentrated trips than a real whirlwind.
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Monoriu on August 28, 2014, 07:26:44 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 28, 2014, 07:12:41 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 28, 2014, 07:05:14 PMI never fancied Taiwan either, but I fell in love with Taipei when I was there.
Yeah. As I say, one day.

I've never really fancied most of South-East Asia either. Indonesia and the Philippines appeal but not so much. Though I've no doubt I'd love it if I ever go.

QuoteJapan is its own thing.
Yeah. I've got a friend who's a Japanese translator and will, inevitably, end up back there for extended periods. So I imagine I'll visit then - also when I'm earning a bit more.

If I have to rank the tourist destinations in East Asia, it'll be -

Japan - China - Thailand - Taiwan - Singapore - Korea - Vietnam - Malaysia - the rest.  I am biased about HK, so it is not in the rankings. 
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Monoriu on August 28, 2014, 07:47:40 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 28, 2014, 07:24:33 PM
Cheers again, guys. Also any local delicacies for these places Mono?

Xiamen is really a stop-off to go to Wuyi Shan because (I think) there's flights between the two. Though I kind of fancy visiting the island.

I get what you're saying about Beijing but I'll already be rushing. I want to spend 3-4 days in Shanghai and Hong Kong, if I throw in Beijing too it makes any other trips even shorter.

As I say I think I'll go back. The way I look at it is that China's as big as Europe and there's lots that's unmissable that I will miss. For example if I'm heading from, say, Shanghai to Beijing surely it'd be crap to miss Xi'an too?

I'd rather try and do numerous concentrated trips than a real whirlwind.

In terms of attractiveness, Beijing is either #1 or #2 in China.  Xiamen is outside the top ten.  I understand your point about not being possible to visit all the places.  But my point is, Beijing is much better than Xiamen or Shaoxing.  If I were you, I'd skip Xiamen and Shaoxing, and put Beijing there.  I've been to Beijing 4 or 5 times, and there are so many things to see that there are still major tourist destinations that we haven't been to due to lack of time. 

I don't understand Xiamen being a necessary stop-over.  There are direct flights to both Xiamen and Wuyi Shan from HK.  My mother-in-law go to Wuyi Shan all the time, and she doesn't need a transfer.  You don't need to stop at Xiamen to go to Wuyi Shan.

Food:

For Hangzhou I've named the top 3 restaurants already.  Don't worry about the prices too much.  The hotel restaurants aren't necessarily much more expensive than the street ones.  It all depends on what you order.  If you stick to dim sum and the less expensive dishes, the price is reasonable.  Hotels are also better for you because they have English speaking staff and English menus. 

HK - Luk Yu Tea House is a must-see for traditional dim sum, and the decor if you are into that kind of thing.  It is like going back in time half a century ago.  Lung King Heen is *the* best Cantonese restaurant, but you need to book a place months beforehand.  If not, Cuisine Cuisine in IFC is a good alternative.  For cheap places, I strongly recommend the Australia Dairy Company that I talked about in my thread.  Make sure you order scrambled eggs.  I can go on for 20 pages about food in HK, but is there anything specific you have in mind?

Shanghai - Shanghainese food is all about being oily and heavy.  I like these -

http://www.dianping.com/shop/587030
(make sure you order their fried rice cakes.  I broke a chair there, so be careful when you get up.  If you use your legs to get up, it'll probably be better.  I think they replaced all the chairs the second time I went there)

http://www.dianping.com/shop/2079619

http://www.dianping.com/shop/500702

None of the places that we went to in Xiamen are worth recommending.  I need to ask the wife about Suzhou. 
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 28, 2014, 07:50:19 PM
Yeah Shelf, you'll kick yourself afterwards if you don't have the scrambled eggs.  :lol:

Make sure you try the "toast" as well.
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2014, 07:53:16 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 28, 2014, 07:50:19 PM
Yeah Shelf, you'll kick yourself afterwards if you don't have the scrambled eggs.  :lol:

Make sure you try the "toast" as well.

You know, there really is an untapped market for Chinese/brunch fusion restaurants.  :hmm:
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 28, 2014, 11:37:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 28, 2014, 06:01:09 PM
I never recommend Korea as a tourist destination.
:huh: Plenty of nice things to see.
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Tonitrus on August 28, 2014, 11:42:54 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 28, 2014, 11:37:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 28, 2014, 06:01:09 PM
I never recommend Korea as a tourist destination.
:huh: Plenty of nice things to see.

I doubt that is the issue.

Almost all countries have plenty of nice things to see...but how tourist-friendly are they?
Title: Re: China Tips
Post by: Monoriu on August 29, 2014, 01:18:30 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 28, 2014, 11:37:09 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 28, 2014, 06:01:09 PM
I never recommend Korea as a tourist destination.
:huh: Plenty of nice things to see.

I am sure there are plenty of nice things to see everywhere.  The problem is my time and money are very limited, and some countries have nicer things to see.  Korea is not bad, but Japan is usually better :contract: