Languish.org

General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: jimmy olsen on July 16, 2014, 12:08:43 AM

Title: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 16, 2014, 12:08:43 AM
What exactly does that mean?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/appeals-court-texas-can-use-race-admissions-n156786

QuoteAppeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions

A federal appeals court panel ruled Tuesday that the University of Texas can continue using race in its undergraduate admissions, a year after the U.S. Supreme Court sent the case back to a lower court. A 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals panel ruled 2-1 that barring the university from using race would hurt diversity on campus. The ruling came in a lawsuit filed in 2008 by Abigail Fisher, who is white and was denied admission.

"We are persuaded that to deny UT Austin its limited use of race in its search for holistic diversity would hobble the richness of the educational experience," the panel found.

The case went to the U.S. Supreme Court in June 2013. But rather than issue a landmark decision on affirmative action, the high court voted 7-1 to tell a lower appeals court to take another look at Fisher's lawsuit. The university said at the time that that decision would have no effect on its admissions policies. The university scheduled a news conference later Tuesday to react to the latest ruling. Fisher's attorneys said they plan to appeal.
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: Syt on July 16, 2014, 12:53:53 AM
Quotelimited use of race in its search for holistic diversity

Sounds like a 1970s psychedelic album.
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: Valmy on July 16, 2014, 09:14:58 AM
Good.  We can finally limit the over-represented Asians.
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: derspiess on July 16, 2014, 09:21:05 AM
Both universities I attended had a deficit of Asians.  So I guess I was cheated of a diverse/rich educational experience from the other side :(
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: Savonarola on July 16, 2014, 09:28:41 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 16, 2014, 09:21:05 AM
Both universities I attended had a deficit of Asians.  So I guess I was cheated of a diverse/rich educational experience from the other side :(

You should have majored in engineering.  In several of my graduate school classes I was the token white person.   :)
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 16, 2014, 09:30:18 AM
Defetus double-majored in "Caucasian-American History" and "Male Studies."
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: derspiess on July 16, 2014, 09:35:10 AM
With a minor in Straight Theory.
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 16, 2014, 09:43:54 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 16, 2014, 12:08:43 AM
What exactly does that mean?

This was a case that was previously before the Supreme Court.  The Supreme Court held that promoting racial diversity could be permissible motive for the use of race in admissions decisions.  It sent the case back down to determine whether the particular means used by UT were sufficiently "narrowly tailored".  That is the only real legal question that was involved here. 

The "holistic" business came up because Fisher argued that the goals of diversity had already been achieved, based on a raw percentage of African-American and Hispanic students.  That is, the petitioner argued somewhat ironicially that diversity goals should be measured entirely by a numerical benchmark or quota.  The university disgreed and not that surprisingly so did the court.
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: Valmy on July 16, 2014, 09:47:19 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 16, 2014, 09:43:54 AM
That is, the petitioner argued somewhat ironicially that diversity goals should be measured entirely by a numerical benchmark or quota.  The university disgreed and not that surprisingly so did the court.

What are the other measurements for diversity?
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: DontSayBanana on July 16, 2014, 09:53:18 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on July 16, 2014, 09:28:41 AM
You should have majored in engineering.  In several of my graduate school classes I was the token white person.   :)

:yes: Not to mention faculty representation.  At the college I'm going to in the fall, 44% of the CSIS faculty are Asian.  In fact, my professor for Systems Analysis & Design is pretty much totally off-the-boat Chinese- even her grad degree was completed in Hong Kong).
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 16, 2014, 10:21:12 AM
Great, an entire generation of CSIS-certified eggheads that can't drive for shit.
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: DontSayBanana on July 16, 2014, 01:26:15 PM
Also:

I'd actually be in favor of a striking of affirmative action.  The 14th prohibits discimination based on race.  It doesn't say "Discrimination prohibited based on race.  Unless you're white.  In which case, discriminate away- they had their chance."
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: derspiess on July 16, 2014, 02:03:23 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on July 16, 2014, 09:53:18 AM
:yes: Not to mention faculty representation.  At the college I'm going to in the fall, 44% of the CSIS faculty are Asian.  In fact, my professor for Systems Analysis & Design is pretty much totally off-the-boat Chinese- even her grad degree was completed in Hong Kong).

At both universities I attended the computer science faculty were nearly all white male nerds and Indian females.  I don't think I ever had an Asian instructor for any of my classes at all.
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 16, 2014, 02:51:50 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on July 16, 2014, 01:26:15 PM
Also:

I'd actually be in favor of a striking of affirmative action.  The 14th prohibits discimination based on race.  It doesn't say "Discrimination prohibited based on race.  Unless you're white.  In which case, discriminate away- they had their chance."

Here's what the relevant language actually says:
"No state shall . . . deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: dps on July 16, 2014, 05:59:42 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 16, 2014, 02:51:50 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on July 16, 2014, 01:26:15 PM
Also:

I'd actually be in favor of a striking of affirmative action.  The 14th prohibits discimination based on race.  It doesn't say "Discrimination prohibited based on race.  Unless you're white.  In which case, discriminate away- they had their chance."

Here's what the relevant language actually says:
"No state shall . . . deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."


I think DontSayBanana may have been thinking of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, not the 14th Amendment.
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: grumbler on July 16, 2014, 06:01:24 PM
Quote from: dps on July 16, 2014, 05:59:42 PM
I think DontSayBanana may have been thinking of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, not the 14th Amendment.

Nonsense.  Internet Lawyers don't make that kind of mistake.
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 16, 2014, 07:38:45 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 16, 2014, 02:03:23 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on July 16, 2014, 09:53:18 AM
:yes: Not to mention faculty representation.  At the college I'm going to in the fall, 44% of the CSIS faculty are Asian.  In fact, my professor for Systems Analysis & Design is pretty much totally off-the-boat Chinese- even her grad degree was completed in Hong Kong).

At both universities I attended the computer science faculty were nearly all white male nerds and Indian females.  I don't think I ever had an Asian instructor for any of my classes at all.
Indian counts as Asian.
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: FunkMonk on July 16, 2014, 07:55:48 PM
Asians are cool people. I don't understand the hate.
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: derspiess on July 16, 2014, 08:32:47 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 16, 2014, 07:38:45 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 16, 2014, 02:03:23 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on July 16, 2014, 09:53:18 AM
:yes: Not to mention faculty representation.  At the college I'm going to in the fall, 44% of the CSIS faculty are Asian.  In fact, my professor for Systems Analysis & Design is pretty much totally off-the-boat Chinese- even her grad degree was completed in Hong Kong).

At both universities I attended the computer science faculty were nearly all white male nerds and Indian females.  I don't think I ever had an Asian instructor for any of my classes at all.
Indian counts as Asian.

Technically yes, colloquially no.  You're not British.
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: derspiess on July 16, 2014, 08:34:45 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 16, 2014, 07:55:48 PM
Asians are cool people. I don't understand the hate.

Who here hates them?  I'm sure Valmy was funnin' and Seedy just hates everyone.
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: DontSayBanana on July 16, 2014, 09:16:06 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 16, 2014, 06:01:24 PM
Quote from: dps on July 16, 2014, 05:59:42 PM
I think DontSayBanana may have been thinking of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, not the 14th Amendment.

Nonsense.  Internet Lawyers don't make that kind of mistake.

IANAL, and I do make that mistake. :blush:
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: DGuller on July 16, 2014, 09:24:00 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on July 16, 2014, 09:16:06 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 16, 2014, 06:01:24 PM
Quote from: dps on July 16, 2014, 05:59:42 PM
I think DontSayBanana may have been thinking of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, not the 14th Amendment.

Nonsense.  Internet Lawyers don't make that kind of mistake.

IANAL, and I do make that mistake. :blush:
How can you be nasty to someone who readily admits their mistake?  Seriously, any tips? :unsure:
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: FunkMonk on July 16, 2014, 09:28:15 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 16, 2014, 08:34:45 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 16, 2014, 07:55:48 PM
Asians are cool people. I don't understand the hate.

Who here hates them?  I'm sure Valmy was funnin' and Seedy just hates everyone.

I get hated all the time.  :cry:
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: Ed Anger on July 16, 2014, 09:40:54 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 16, 2014, 09:28:15 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 16, 2014, 08:34:45 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 16, 2014, 07:55:48 PM
Asians are cool people. I don't understand the hate.

Who here hates them?  I'm sure Valmy was funnin' and Seedy just hates everyone.

I get hated all the time.  :cry:

What disgusting brown are you? I Need to properly calibrate the HATR 5000 machine for proper ethnic slurs.
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: garbon on July 16, 2014, 09:41:50 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 16, 2014, 09:40:54 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 16, 2014, 09:28:15 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 16, 2014, 08:34:45 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on July 16, 2014, 07:55:48 PM
Asians are cool people. I don't understand the hate.

Who here hates them?  I'm sure Valmy was funnin' and Seedy just hates everyone.

I get hated all the time.  :cry:

What disgusting brown are you? I Need to properly calibrate the HATR 5000 machine for proper ethnic slurs.

He's half-somali, half-indonesian.
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: Ed Anger on July 16, 2014, 09:44:13 PM
I need several days of research time for that.
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: DontSayBanana on July 16, 2014, 09:45:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 16, 2014, 09:44:13 PM
I need several days of research time for that.

Indonesian?  Just channel the bmollson hatred, aka crank it all the way up.
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 16, 2014, 09:48:02 PM
He's half wetback, half Flip.
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: Ed Anger on July 16, 2014, 09:49:22 PM
Flips.  <_<
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: garbon on July 16, 2014, 09:52:25 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 16, 2014, 09:44:13 PM
I need several days of research time for that.

I've a lot of practice creating ethnicities for people. :)
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: FunkMonk on July 17, 2014, 09:45:11 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Appeals Court: Texas Can Use Race in Admissions
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 17, 2014, 10:02:00 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 16, 2014, 09:47:19 AM
What are the other measurements for diversity?

I may have phrased the question wrong.
The task of the university was to come up with a narrowly tailored way to serve the diversity goal.  They way they did that to admit the vast majority of the class (well over 80%) on purely objective race-neutral criteria (principally high school class rank).  A small percentage of the class was determined accorded to the "holistic criteria".  All that means is that admissions officers considered a wide variety of factors, including test scores, grades, essay performance, extra-curriculars, work experience, family responsibilities, "leadership qualities", community service, "socioeconomic status.". Race is one of the many criteria that may be considered.  There is no explicit weights for the different elements of the "holistic review" except that applicants with higher test scores and grades are placed in boxes on a matrix that gives them priority.

Fisher's argument was that this process wasn't narrowly tailored because the percentages of African-Americans and Hispanics were sufficiently high to make further use of race as a criterion unnecessary.  But this is effectively the same as saying what UT should have done would be to include a specific numerical target or quota into its decision process.  That is, she was arguing that a program should be considered not narrowly tailored (and hence constitutional) if it *lacks* a numerical quota component.  That seems wrong to me.