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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2014, 04:13:23 PM

Title: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2014, 04:13:23 PM
Does your language have any terms to describe mixed-race people?  I'm looking for equivalents of metis in French.

For example, does German have a specific word for someone who is half German and half Turkish?
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Norgy on June 07, 2014, 04:50:22 PM
Not really. Just mixed black-white, which is "mulatt". As in mulatto.

Half Filipino, half Norwegian doesn't have a name, despite becoming a bit common.
Well, I am sure there are some nasty terms, but none that I know. I am, however, known as a "potato" by the Pakistani yoooof.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 07, 2014, 04:51:30 PM
Brown on the outside, white on the inside?  :huh:
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Maladict on June 07, 2014, 04:59:57 PM
Halfbloed in Dutch.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Ideologue on June 07, 2014, 05:01:19 PM
I got halfbloed once.  Really frustrating.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: The Brain on June 07, 2014, 05:16:34 PM
None that is used with any frequency. "Mulatt" for mixed black/white is known but never used. In normal conversation you would describe a person as "half-Korean" etc.

Edit: Possibly because the big divide in Sweden isn't between races but between Swedes and immigrants. For instance there are quite a few Swedes who are adopted from Asia or Africa.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: The Larch on June 07, 2014, 05:25:13 PM
Mestizo.

Edit: And from back in the day...

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fe%2Fe8%2FCasta_painting_all.jpg&hash=cf454805b195f7037fec455c1ee3a36d6dfba415)
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: 11B4V on June 07, 2014, 05:27:31 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2014, 04:13:23 PM
For example, does German have a specific word for someone who is half German and half Turkish?

Untermensch, duh.  :lol:
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Pedrito on June 07, 2014, 05:38:12 PM
In italian, meticcio or mulatto. almost unused today.
Being us usually the giving end of migration fluxes, it seems more common for people at the receiving end of migrations to give names like these.

Oh and Larch, I love that picture.

L.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Norgy on June 07, 2014, 05:42:53 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on June 07, 2014, 04:51:30 PM
Brown on the outside, white on the inside?  :huh:

More a quip about Norwegian food than anything else.

The generation before me eats pasta with boiled potatos.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: celedhring on June 07, 2014, 06:18:31 PM
In Catalan "xarnego" used to mean that, but it evolved into meaning "Spanish immigrant" in the XXth century.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: mongers on June 07, 2014, 06:28:23 PM
British.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Barrister on June 07, 2014, 06:47:06 PM
No special word. :)
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: citizen k on June 07, 2014, 06:59:38 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 07, 2014, 06:47:06 PM
No special word. :)

Non-Americans. If you live in North or South America, technically you're an American or "New Worlder".

Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2014, 07:55:52 PM
Does mora/moro mean Moor or black?

And how the hell does a 1/4 moro + full blooded Spaniard = "Chino?"  :lol:
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: The Larch on June 07, 2014, 08:38:59 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2014, 07:55:52 PM
Does mora/moro mean Moor or black?

It normally means moor, but in that context it seems to mean black.

QuoteAnd how the hell does a 1/4 moro + full blooded Spaniard = "Chino?"  :lol:

No idea, ask a XVIIth century colonial spaniard.  :P
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Viking on June 07, 2014, 11:42:13 PM
In Icelandic? No indiginous words for mixed race people.

Edit: though we did follow a "one drop rule" kind of thing. In one case where a french ship was shipwrecked in my home village the crew settled and married into the locals, they were just called french, until, one day we didn't call them anything special.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Sheilbh on June 08, 2014, 12:28:55 AM
Not in English.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: viper37 on June 08, 2014, 12:40:54 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2014, 04:13:23 PM
Does your language have any terms to describe mixed-race people?  I'm looking for equivalents of metis in French.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2014, 04:13:23 PM
Does your language have any terms to describe mixed-race people?  I'm looking for equivalents of metis in French.
mulâtre for someone of mixed black and white parents.  Don't know if it applies to 2nd generation offspring.  Not awhere of any words for other ethnic groups but there might be.

Edit: other than metis, of course.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Zanza on June 08, 2014, 02:12:15 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2014, 04:13:23 PM
For example, does German have a specific word for someone who is half German and half Turkish?
Not specifically for that.

The word "Deutschtürke" designates a German with Turkish ancestors, but not necessarily half-half, could also be two Turkish parents. In census we have a category called "Migrationshintergrund", which basically means that you or at least one of your parents migrated to Germany after 1949. But that also catches ethnic Germans from Eastern Europe.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Norgy on June 08, 2014, 03:52:16 AM
I seem to recall people from Haugesund being called "Arabs" here. Lots of shipwrecked Portuguese and Spaniards around those parts. There's no doubt that parts of the coast has had more contact and more exchange of genes with the rest of Europe than say the inbred area where I hail from.

An anecdote that's most likely not true is that one of the big merchants who'd made his money on the lumber trade brought back a black young man as a servant. Since no-one had seen a black person, he was thrown into the fireplace at the first opportunity.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: grumbler on June 08, 2014, 09:50:04 AM
Quote from: Viking on June 07, 2014, 11:42:13 PM
In Icelandic? No indiginous words for mixed race people.

Edit: though we did follow a "one drop rule" kind of thing. In one case where a french ship was shipwrecked in my home village the crew settled and married into the locals, they were just called french, until, one day we didn't call them anything special.
How many days passed before you stopped calling them French?
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Ed Anger on June 08, 2014, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: Norgy on June 08, 2014, 03:52:16 AM
I seem to recall people from Haugesund being called "Arabs" here. Lots of shipwrecked Portuguese and Spaniards around those parts. There's no doubt that parts of the coast has had more contact and more exchange of genes with the rest of Europe than say the inbred area where I hail from.

An anecdote that's most likely not true is that one of the big merchants who'd made his money on the lumber trade brought back a black young man as a servant. Since no-one had seen a black person, he was thrown into the fireplace at the first opportunity.

Ugh, eggplants washing on shore.

*crosses Norway off tourist list*
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Viking on June 08, 2014, 10:00:28 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 08, 2014, 09:50:04 AM
Quote from: Viking on June 07, 2014, 11:42:13 PM
In Icelandic? No indiginous words for mixed race people.

Edit: though we did follow a "one drop rule" kind of thing. In one case where a french ship was shipwrecked in my home village the crew settled and married into the locals, they were just called french, until, one day we didn't call them anything special.
How many days passed before you stopped calling them French?

at least 36500 days
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: The Larch on June 08, 2014, 10:17:31 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 08, 2014, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: Norgy on June 08, 2014, 03:52:16 AM
I seem to recall people from Haugesund being called "Arabs" here. Lots of shipwrecked Portuguese and Spaniards around those parts. There's no doubt that parts of the coast has had more contact and more exchange of genes with the rest of Europe than say the inbred area where I hail from.

An anecdote that's most likely not true is that one of the big merchants who'd made his money on the lumber trade brought back a black young man as a servant. Since no-one had seen a black person, he was thrown into the fireplace at the first opportunity.

Ugh, eggplants washing on shore.

*crosses Norway off tourist list*

Eggplants have historically washed ashore all over the world.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: grumbler on June 08, 2014, 10:28:20 AM
Quote from: Viking on June 08, 2014, 10:00:28 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 08, 2014, 09:50:04 AM
Quote from: Viking on June 07, 2014, 11:42:13 PM
In Icelandic? No indiginous words for mixed race people.

Edit: though we did follow a "one drop rule" kind of thing. In one case where a french ship was shipwrecked in my home village the crew settled and married into the locals, they were just called french, until, one day we didn't call them anything special.
How many days passed before you stopped calling them French?

at least 36500 days
Wow! You are old!
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Josquius on June 08, 2014, 10:36:45 AM
In Japan they just say haafu.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Viking on June 08, 2014, 10:41:14 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 08, 2014, 10:28:20 AMWow! You are old!

Coming from methusaleh here that is a compliment
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: grumbler on June 08, 2014, 03:08:58 PM
Quote from: Viking on June 08, 2014, 10:41:14 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 08, 2014, 10:28:20 AMWow! You are old!

Coming from methusaleh here that is a compliment
:lol:
I'm not the one who claims he has changed his name-calling over the course of at least "36500 days."  :contract:

In fact, I have made no claims about great age at all.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: The Larch on June 08, 2014, 03:22:09 PM
Quote from: Tyr on June 08, 2014, 10:36:45 AM
In Japan they just say haafu.

True story: There's a village in Andalucía where a small Japanese community settled in the XVIIth century following a Japanese embasy to the Spanish and other European courts. They were all given "Japón" as a surname, and there are a few hundred people still carrying it nowadays.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Viking on June 08, 2014, 05:20:50 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 08, 2014, 03:08:58 PM
Quote from: Viking on June 08, 2014, 10:41:14 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 08, 2014, 10:28:20 AMWow! You are old!

Coming from methusaleh here that is a compliment
:lol:
I'm not the one who claims he has changed his name-calling over the course of at least "36500 days."  :contract:

In fact, I have made no claims about great age at all.

"we" not "I"
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: grumbler on June 08, 2014, 08:06:45 PM
Quote from: Viking on June 08, 2014, 05:20:50 PM
"we" not "I"

I keep forgetting that English isn't your native language.

In English, "we" is the first-person plural.  "I" is first-person singular.  In English, "we" includes "I."  The only difference in English between "we did it" and "I did it" is that, in the first case, you are expressly not the only one who did it.

So, when you write in English that "we called them that for over 36500 days" you are claiming that you did this, as well. 

You'd have been better-off sticking to the passive voice, rather than shifting to the active voice with the "until, one day, we didn't call them anything special."
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: alfred russel on June 08, 2014, 10:27:33 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 08, 2014, 08:06:45 PM
Quote from: Viking on June 08, 2014, 05:20:50 PM
"we" not "I"

I keep forgetting that English isn't your native language.

In English, "we" is the first-person plural.  "I" is first-person singular.  In English, "we" includes "I."  The only difference in English between "we did it" and "I did it" is that, in the first case, you are expressly not the only one who did it.

So, when you write in English that "we called them that for over 36500 days" you are claiming that you did this, as well. 

You'd have been better-off sticking to the passive voice, rather than shifting to the active voice with the "until, one day, we didn't call them anything special."

He was referring to the Icelandic community, of which he is a part.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: The Brain on June 08, 2014, 10:57:22 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 08, 2014, 10:27:33 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 08, 2014, 08:06:45 PM
Quote from: Viking on June 08, 2014, 05:20:50 PM
"we" not "I"

I keep forgetting that English isn't your native language.

In English, "we" is the first-person plural.  "I" is first-person singular.  In English, "we" includes "I."  The only difference in English between "we did it" and "I did it" is that, in the first case, you are expressly not the only one who did it.

So, when you write in English that "we called them that for over 36500 days" you are claiming that you did this, as well. 

You'd have been better-off sticking to the passive voice, rather than shifting to the active voice with the "until, one day, we didn't call them anything special."

He was referring to the Icelandic community, of which he is a part.

It's grumbler. :secret:
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Viking on June 09, 2014, 12:07:17 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 08, 2014, 08:06:45 PM
Quote from: Viking on June 08, 2014, 05:20:50 PM
"we" not "I"

I keep forgetting that English isn't your native language.

In English, "we" is the first-person plural.  "I" is first-person singular.  In English, "we" includes "I."  The only difference in English between "we did it" and "I did it" is that, in the first case, you are expressly not the only one who did it.

So, when you write in English that "we called them that for over 36500 days" you are claiming that you did this, as well. 

You'd have been better-off sticking to the passive voice, rather than shifting to the active voice with the "until, one day, we didn't call them anything special."


Quote from: Viking on June 07, 2014, 11:42:13 PM
In Icelandic? No indiginous words for mixed race people.

Edit: though we did follow a "one drop rule" kind of thing. In one case where a french ship was shipwrecked in my home village the crew settled and married into the locals, they were just called french, until, one day we didn't call them anything special.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 05:21:03 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 08, 2014, 10:27:33 PM
He was referring to the Icelandic community, of which he is a part.

He wasn't a part of it when this occurred.  His is a common mistake, I will grant.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Viking on June 09, 2014, 05:31:49 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 05:21:03 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 08, 2014, 10:27:33 PM
He was referring to the Icelandic community, of which he is a part.

He wasn't a part of it when this occurred.  His is a common mistake, I will grant.

I was part of it when we called them french, the ship sank in the late 19th century and when I was young they were still referred to as french.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: alfred russel on June 09, 2014, 09:34:03 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 05:21:03 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 08, 2014, 10:27:33 PM
He was referring to the Icelandic community, of which he is a part.

He wasn't a part of it when this occurred.  His is a common mistake, I will grant.

It isn't a common mistake; it is a common usage. "We" can refer to a nationality that includes the speaker. It is one of the definitions of the word "we".

Even ignoring the fact that you would be wrong in any event, based on Viking's last statement.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: derspiess on June 09, 2014, 09:57:33 AM
Wow.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Viking on June 09, 2014, 10:38:44 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 09, 2014, 09:34:03 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 05:21:03 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 08, 2014, 10:27:33 PM
He was referring to the Icelandic community, of which he is a part.

He wasn't a part of it when this occurred.  His is a common mistake, I will grant.

It isn't a common mistake; it is a common usage. "We" can refer to a nationality that includes the speaker. It is one of the definitions of the word "we".

Even ignoring the fact that you would be wrong in any event, based on Viking's last statement.

Things have changed so much since those days. Now we have the Argentinians.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Josquius on June 09, 2014, 11:00:20 AM
:bleeding:
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Viking on June 09, 2014, 11:17:47 AM
Quote from: Tyr on June 09, 2014, 11:00:20 AM
:bleeding:

HEY, that's my second cousins you are dissin'
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Caliga on June 09, 2014, 11:28:11 AM
Quote from: Viking on June 09, 2014, 05:31:49 AM
I was part of it when we called them french, the ship sank in the late 19th century and when I was young they were still referred to as french.
:hmm: Why didn't they just go home?  It's not like this happened in 850 AD or something...  was there a surplus of young hott maidens in the village at the time or something?
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Viking on June 09, 2014, 12:13:26 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 09, 2014, 11:28:11 AM
Quote from: Viking on June 09, 2014, 05:31:49 AM
I was part of it when we called them french, the ship sank in the late 19th century and when I was young they were still referred to as french.
:hmm: Why didn't they just go home?  It's not like this happened in 850 AD or something...  was there a surplus of young hott maidens in the village at the time or something?

Iceland 1867 = France 850



The ship was the Admiral-l'Hermite out of Dunkirk in 1867, 20 sailors were shipwrecked and they settled.

Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 03:11:29 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 09, 2014, 09:34:03 AM
It isn't a common mistake; it is a common usage. "We" can refer to a nationality that includes the speaker. It is one of the definitions of the word "we".

Actually, "a nationality that includes the speaker" isn't one of the definitions of the word.  You can look it up.  Your attempt at semantic shenanigans fails.

QuoteEven ignoring the fact that you would be wrong in any event, based on Viking's last statement.

I looked at the following two statements:
Quote from: Viking on June 08, 2014, 10:00:28 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 08, 2014, 09:50:04 AM
How many days passed before you stopped calling them French?

at least 36500 days
and concluded that Viking was saying exactly what he was saying;  that he called them French for at least 36500 days.  That's 100 years, give or take a few days.

Not sure how I could be wrong in using his words exactly as he wrote them.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: The Brain on June 09, 2014, 03:15:05 PM
I'd love to say that his mind has gone but sadly that's not true. :(
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: derspiess on June 09, 2014, 03:19:47 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 03:11:29 PM
and concluded that Viking was saying exactly what he was saying;  that he called them French for at least 36500 days.  That's 100 years, give or take a few days.

Not sure how I could be wrong in using his words exactly as he wrote them.

Let's say you were correct.  Does it really matter that much to go on about it?
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Viking on June 09, 2014, 03:22:36 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 09, 2014, 03:19:47 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 03:11:29 PM
and concluded that Viking was saying exactly what he was saying;  that he called them French for at least 36500 days.  That's 100 years, give or take a few days.

Not sure how I could be wrong in using his words exactly as he wrote them.

Let's say you were correct.  Does it really matter that much to go on about it?

he's grumbler, why do you need reasons?
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: alfred russel on June 09, 2014, 03:31:22 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 03:11:29 PM

Actually, "a nationality that includes the speaker" isn't one of the definitions of the word.  You can look it up.  Your attempt at semantic shenanigans fails.

"We"

4. (used to indicate a particular profession, nationality, political party, etc., that includes the speaker or writer): We in the medical profession have moral responsibilities.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/We

Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: crazy canuck on June 09, 2014, 03:36:07 PM
QuoteWe the People of the United States....
:hmm:
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Barrister on June 09, 2014, 03:37:52 PM
While perhaps grumbler can come back with an authoritative source showing us he was right all along, but I have used "we" in the manner Viking did and always understood that to be appropriate, and AR's link seems to confirm that usage.

:)
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 03:38:23 PM
BTW, the Frommer's guide to Iceland includes an interesting entry that may shed some light on this:
QuoteFormerly known as Búðir, Fáskrúðsfjörður was settled by French-speaking sailors (mostly Belgian and Breton) in the 1800s as a fishing base for half the year. In the cod boom of 1880 to 1914, about 5,000 French and Belgian fishermen came to east Iceland each season. Cod fishing was one of the world's most dangerous professions; over 4,000 French-speaking fishermen alone died in Icelandic waters between 1825 and 1940. In Fáskrúðsfjörður, they introduced locals to cognac and chocolate, stole eggs and sheep, and built a local chapel and hospital. Street signs are in Icelandic and French, and a cemetery east of town along the shore holds the graves of 49 French and Belgian sailors. For 4 days in late July, Fáskrúðsfjörður celebrates its French heritage with the Franskir Dagar (French Days) family festival.

Read more: http://www.frommers.com/destinations/lower-eastfjords/277761#sthash.IpLfAmn7.dpbs#ixzz34Axs2tIo

I rather suspect that this is the source of the "French" of which Viking spoke.  Some of them probably married locals and stayed in Iceland for that reason.

The only Amiral L'hermite which I can find was actually lost NW of Ireland in 1917, having been sunk by a U-boat.  Iceland being NW of Ireland, the crew could have gone ashore in Iceland, not Ireland, but there is no indication that they stayed.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 03:41:59 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 09, 2014, 03:31:22 PM
"We"

4. (used to indicate a particular profession, nationality, political party, etc., that includes the speaker or writer): We in the medical profession have moral responsibilities.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/We
That is called a usage note.  The definition in that source is "nominative plural of I."  Exactly as I said.

I'm not sure what argument you are making here.  Are you saying that Viking did, or did not, call these people "French" for 100 years?
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 03:45:28 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 09, 2014, 03:37:52 PM
While perhaps grumbler can come back with an authoritative source showing us he was right all along, but I have used "we" in the manner Viking did and always understood that to be appropriate, and AR's link seems to confirm that usage.

:)
So, you say "we first settled Canada around 16,000 years ago"?  It seems to me to be an awful stretch of the concept of "I".  If you are not present, then "they" is far more accurate and far less misleading.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Malthus on June 09, 2014, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 09, 2014, 03:36:07 PM
QuoteWe the People of the United States....
:hmm:

Well, Grumbler was actually there at the time that was drafted.  ;)
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: crazy canuck on June 09, 2014, 03:51:20 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 09, 2014, 03:48:05 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 09, 2014, 03:36:07 PM
QuoteWe the People of the United States....
:hmm:

Well, Grumbler was actually there at the time that was drafted.  ;)

He should have corrected their improper use of "We".
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: alfred russel on June 09, 2014, 03:53:18 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 03:41:59 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 09, 2014, 03:31:22 PM
"We"

4. (used to indicate a particular profession, nationality, political party, etc., that includes the speaker or writer): We in the medical profession have moral responsibilities.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/We
That is called a usage note.  The definition in that source is "nominative plural of I."  Exactly as I said.

I'm not sure what argument you are making here.  Are you saying that Viking did, or did not, call these people "French" for 100 years?

Viking did not personally call these people french for 100 years. The nationality that he is a part of, Icelandic, did.

To my knowledge every person here, excepting perhaps you, understood what he meant. The dictionary link I supplied also supported that Viking's usage "we" was correct, and in my experience it is in line with the common usage of the word.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: crazy canuck on June 09, 2014, 03:54:13 PM
If I am talking about Canadians I might say "We love hockey".  It would be odd indeed for someone to question me whether I personally love hockey.  I dont.  But speaking for Canadians, we sure do love hockey.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Jacob on June 09, 2014, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 03:41:59 PM
I'm not sure what argument you are making here.  Are you saying that Viking did, or did not, call these people "French" for 100 years?

We believe that you are the only person who thought Viking was saying that he personally called them French for a hundred years.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 09, 2014, 04:02:19 PM
Oui.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Malthus on June 09, 2014, 04:06:06 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 03:38:23 PM
BTW, the Frommer's guide to Iceland includes an interesting entry that may shed some light on this:
QuoteFormerly known as Búðir, Fáskrúðsfjörður was settled by French-speaking sailors (mostly Belgian and Breton) in the 1800s as a fishing base for half the year. In the cod boom of 1880 to 1914, about 5,000 French and Belgian fishermen came to east Iceland each season. Cod fishing was one of the world's most dangerous professions; over 4,000 French-speaking fishermen alone died in Icelandic waters between 1825 and 1940. In Fáskrúðsfjörður, they introduced locals to cognac and chocolate, stole eggs and sheep, and built a local chapel and hospital. Street signs are in Icelandic and French, and a cemetery east of town along the shore holds the graves of 49 French and Belgian sailors. For 4 days in late July, Fáskrúðsfjörður celebrates its French heritage with the Franskir Dagar (French Days) family festival.

Read more: http://www.frommers.com/destinations/lower-eastfjords/277761#sthash.IpLfAmn7.dpbs#ixzz34Axs2tIo

I rather suspect that this is the source of the "French" of which Viking spoke.  Some of them probably married locals and stayed in Iceland for that reason.

The only Amiral L'hermite which I can find was actually lost NW of Ireland in 1917, having been sunk by a U-boat.  Iceland being NW of Ireland, the crew could have gone ashore in Iceland, not Ireland, but there is no indication that they stayed.

The French probably arrived in petaches.  :D
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: mongers on June 09, 2014, 04:09:08 PM
Quality series of posts, 'We are most definitely amused'.  :bowler:
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Viking on June 09, 2014, 04:14:44 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 03:38:23 PM

I rather suspect that this is the source of the "French" of which Viking spoke.  Some of them probably married locals and stayed in Iceland for that reason.

The only Amiral L'hermite which I can find was actually lost NW of Ireland in 1917, having been sunk by a U-boat.  Iceland being NW of Ireland, the crew could have gone ashore in Iceland, not Ireland, but there is no indication that they stayed.

Different Frenchmen. The Fishermen at Fáskrúðsfjörð were not shipwrecked, they were seasonal migrants. Some of the shipwrecked crew stayed in Vestmannaeyar.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=is&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heimaslod.is%2Findex.php%2F%25C3%259Ar_f%25C3%25B3rum_%25C3%2581rna_%25C3%2581rnasonar._Verk_hans_og_annarra%2FStrand_franska_skipsins_Admiral_l%2527Hermite_%25C3%25A1ri%25C3%25B0_1867&edit-text=
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Barrister on June 09, 2014, 04:29:43 PM
Quote from: Viking on June 09, 2014, 04:14:44 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 03:38:23 PM

I rather suspect that this is the source of the "French" of which Viking spoke.  Some of them probably married locals and stayed in Iceland for that reason.

The only Amiral L'hermite which I can find was actually lost NW of Ireland in 1917, having been sunk by a U-boat.  Iceland being NW of Ireland, the crew could have gone ashore in Iceland, not Ireland, but there is no indication that they stayed.

Different Frenchmen. The Fishermen at Fáskrúðsfjörð were not shipwrecked, they were seasonal migrants. Some of the shipwrecked crew stayed in Vestmannaeyar.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=is&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heimaslod.is%2Findex.php%2F%25C3%259Ar_f%25C3%25B3rum_%25C3%2581rna_%25C3%2581rnasonar._Verk_hans_og_annarra%2FStrand_franska_skipsins_Admiral_l%2527Hermite_%25C3%25A1ri%25C3%25B0_1867&edit-text=

My favourite part of that translated article is the reference to "the frog crew". :lol:
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Barrister on June 09, 2014, 04:33:13 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 03:41:59 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on June 09, 2014, 03:31:22 PM
"We"

4. (used to indicate a particular profession, nationality, political party, etc., that includes the speaker or writer): We in the medical profession have moral responsibilities.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/We
That is called a usage note.  The definition in that source is "nominative plural of I."  Exactly as I said.

I'm not sure what argument you are making here.  Are you saying that Viking did, or did not, call these people "French" for 100 years?

Since there is no english equivalent to l'academie francaise which gives us a one, definitive right and wrong, all any dictionary does is to provide examples of how words and phrases are being used.

But as I said - I am no master of the English language.  I'd happily see any other source you might have and could be convinced otherwise.

:)
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 09, 2014, 05:25:22 PM
Back to topic, very well documented in Portuguese, specially in Brazil
Mestiço is the broad term but there is also mistos or pardos
The basics:
mulato (white + black); caboclo/mameluco (white + Indian(native); cafuzo (indian(native) + black).


Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 06:13:20 PM
Quote from: Jacob on June 09, 2014, 03:58:11 PM
We believe that you are the only person who thought Viking was saying that he personally called them French for a hundred years.
I asked him that specific question, and he gave a specific answer.  Whatever.

You don't believe that he called them "French" for 100 years, as he claimed, nor do I.  What is this "argument" about?
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 06:16:49 PM
Quote from: Jacob on June 09, 2014, 03:58:11 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 03:41:59 PM
I'm not sure what argument you are making here.  Are you saying that Viking did, or did not, call these people "French" for 100 years?

We believe that you are the only person who thought Viking was saying that he personally called them French for a hundred years.
Actually, I don't believe he did so, as I have made clear. I even asked a question to make sure i wasn't misunderstanding his claim.  His use of English was substandard, but, as I noted, it's not his mother tongue, so no biggie.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 06:21:23 PM
Quote from: Viking on June 09, 2014, 04:14:44 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 03:38:23 PM

I rather suspect that this is the source of the "French" of which Viking spoke.  Some of them probably married locals and stayed in Iceland for that reason.

The only Amiral L'hermite which I can find was actually lost NW of Ireland in 1917, having been sunk by a U-boat.  Iceland being NW of Ireland, the crew could have gone ashore in Iceland, not Ireland, but there is no indication that they stayed.

Different Frenchmen. The Fishermen at Fáskrúðsfjörð were not shipwrecked, they were seasonal migrants. Some of the shipwrecked crew stayed in Vestmannaeyar.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=is&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heimaslod.is%2Findex.php%2F%25C3%259Ar_f%25C3%25B3rum_%25C3%2581rna_%25C3%2581rnasonar._Verk_hans_og_annarra%2FStrand_franska_skipsins_Admiral_l%2527Hermite_%25C3%25A1ri%25C3%25B0_1867&edit-text=
Okay.  That's a primary source, so good enough for me.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: grumbler on June 09, 2014, 06:22:44 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 09, 2014, 05:25:22 PM
Back to topic, very well documented in Portuguese, specially in Brazil
Mestiço is the broad term but there is also mistos or pardos
The basics:
mulato (white + black); caboclo/mameluco (white + Indian(native); cafuzo (indian(native) + black).

Yeah, i teach Brazilian history, and am interested to see how modern communications and city life break down these old class barriers.
Title: Re: Question for the Non-Americans
Post by: Ideologue on June 09, 2014, 07:23:34 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 09, 2014, 03:37:52 PM
While perhaps grumbler can come back with an authoritative source showing us he was right all along, but I have used "we" in the manner Viking did and always understood that to be appropriate, and AR's link seems to confirm that usage.

:)

No kidding.  This is easily the stupidest fucking semantic debate Languish has ever had.

But I don't blame grumbler.  As an immortal, he feels part of no nation or historical tradition--they are but eyeblinks to him--so is confused by the usage of "we" by mere mortals who are seeking continuity with the past and future generations.  Instead, he takes it literally.