Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel! :D
One of the most hilarious bitter articles I've read in a long time, this guy is obviously furious that he can't get his books published/sold.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/columnist/wolff/2014/06/01/the-battle-between-hachette-and-amazon/9761817/
QuoteWolff: How book biz dug its own Amazon grave
Michael Wolff, USA TODAY 7 p.m. EDT June 1, 2014
Books, perhaps not surprisingly, are the business of second-class businessmen, who twice in the last generation have lost control of their fate to retailers, allowing them to pretty much dictate pricing terms and product specifications.
In the first go-round, the power passed to Barnes & Noble, the mall outlet that morphed into a chain of stand-alone book superstores, devastating independent sellers and, effectively, turning books into tenants in expensive real estate (instantly evicted if they failed to pay the rent). In the second — subsuming, for all practical purposes, Barnes & Noble and the rest of the book retail trade — power passed to Amazon, which changed not only how books are bought, but also, using its Kindle as further leverage, the form of the book itself.
These changes, and this power grab, have been of such magnitude and relentless progression that it seems somehow churlish, and hapless, to object now. But suddenly, there is an inkling of an uprising against Amazon as it, without public relations regard, tries to enforce its pricing mandates on Hachette, smallest of the big publishing houses — and as Hachette resists.
To date, the various efforts on the part of the business geniuses in books to deal with the challenge first from B&N and then Amazon have been a bust. This has included, most notably, the book industry's efforts to align with Apple against Amazon, which resulted in antitrust prosecution by the Justice Department and a victory for Amazon.
Amazon, ever-more heavy-handed in its tactics, yet remains popular, if not beloved, among consumers — at least those who do not work in the book business — for its one-click efficiency and loss-leader prices.
The book business, on the other hand, is steeped in inefficiencies and illogic, with few fans among writers, whose books it generally fails to promote and sell, or readers, who, amid endless consolidation, long ago lost any sense of the meaning of once-vaunted publishing brands and imprints (it's hard to rally behind — say again? — Hachette books).
And yet Amazon, evident to anyone paying the slightest attention, is a creeping totalitarian state. Its effort is to build a marketplace that will give it the most power to shape the behavior of its customers and suppliers. That is pretty much the definition of "platform," that new word that denotes ultimate commercial and personal control. The stock market gives a platform vast funds to buy consumers and to integrate them into it — you become part of the system.
Indeed, Amazon can be abusive in its tactics (it is openly making it difficult to buy Hachette books) and reckless about its PR because its central proposition is to lower prices, whereas Hachette seeks to raise them — or at least maintain them.
Among the cognoscenti, Amazon commands great awe as a "disrupter," that is, an enterprise that harnesses technological efficiency and outsider ambition to undermine established businesses, cultural assumptions and traditional ways of life. In the up-to-the-minute view, all disruption is good because it comes at the expense of established power — even though it makes Amazon itself ever-more powerful, more powerful, arguably, than the power it disrupted.
he book business has tried to rally a sentimental hurrah based on book culture and literary pride, as well as dire warnings of the loss of same. This is, however, a difficult case because the industry has not just consolidated into a beast of no cultural distinction at all, but has become an outlet for among the lowest and most ignorant cultural products — books, by and large, are silly and dumb, a cultural wasteland. The industry has largely been supported in recent years by Fifty Shades of Gray titles.
And yet it should not be forgotten that Amazon is exclusively in the business of leverage and power. It offers no more taste and sensibility — or pity — than Walmart. It merely seeks more power in what is now called, cheerfully, the product funnel.
So, broadly, the fight is between, on the one hand, the incompetents, craven panderers and mid-level corporate bureaucrats in the book business and, on the other, the authoritarian creepos at Amazon. More specifically, the fight is about better and lesser businesses' acumen and strategies.
The Amazon vision is about uber control of supply and distribution. The book business method has been to offload those complicated things. Indeed, the control Amazon exerts on books is no more than Barnes & Noble did. To a great extent, Amazon offers a better deal than Barnes & Noble. And that's the point. Amazon is evil, but the book business is cursed because it made its Faustian bargains long ago.
Lazy and inept, publishers let go of their direct path to their customers. The book business once had branded retail outlets — for example, Scribner's famous and iconic store on Fifth Avenue in New York City. It once had close relationships with networks of small distributors (i.e. your local bookstore). It once had a sophisticated direct selling operations (i.e. book clubs). But, now, it doesn't. None of that. No real relationship with, or influence over, its customer.
Tell me again why I can't go to Hachette.com or any other publisher and buy a book? Or, perhaps, if I try very hard and dig very deep, I can — but why don't I know that? To be a publisher is not only to be cheap, hapless and bush league, but to be ambivalent about your own product, and your personal future.
The negotiation, not to mention brinkmanship, between Amazon and Hachette seems vastly too unequal. Publishers need Amazon more than Amazon needs them.
So publishers are screwed. The walking dead. They gave it away.
Amazon isn't the enemy of small publishers, the ISBN numbering system hurts them more than anything else. As for why publishers don't direct ship, that shits expensive.
Also, publishers are that great either, you should see their markups.
People will love the upcoming novel tim gets a mace in the ass by Monc E. Butt
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2014, 10:12:50 PM
People will love the upcoming novel tim gets a mace in the ass by Monc E. Butt
ill get my company to print it for you. You'll at least make a profit on languish :P
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:20:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2014, 10:12:50 PM
People will love the upcoming novel tim gets a mace in the ass by Monc E. Butt
ill get my company to print it for you. You'll at least make a profit on languish :P
eggplant publishing inc.
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2014, 10:22:11 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:20:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2014, 10:12:50 PM
People will love the upcoming novel tim gets a mace in the ass by Monc E. Butt
ill get my company to print it for you. You'll at least make a profit on languish :P
eggplant publishing inc.
its actually owned by one of the richest guys in Canada :lol:
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:04:08 PM
Amazon isn't the enemy of small publishers, the ISBN numbering system hurts them more than anything else. As for why publishers don't direct ship, that shits expensive.
Also, publishers are that great either, you should see their markups.
How? :huh:
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:23:45 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2014, 10:22:11 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:20:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2014, 10:12:50 PM
People will love the upcoming novel tim gets a mace in the ass by Monc E. Butt
ill get my company to print it for you. You'll at least make a profit on languish :P
eggplant publishing inc.
its actually owned by one of the richest guys in Canada :lol:
Snowtard publishing
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2014, 10:26:53 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:23:45 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2014, 10:22:11 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:20:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2014, 10:12:50 PM
People will love the upcoming novel tim gets a mace in the ass by Monc E. Butt
ill get my company to print it for you. You'll at least make a profit on languish :P
eggplant publishing inc.
its actually owned by one of the richest guys in Canada :lol:
Snowtard publishing
why do you always try to hurt me so :(
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 01, 2014, 10:25:40 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:04:08 PM
Amazon isn't the enemy of small publishers, the ISBN numbering system hurts them more than anything else. As for why publishers don't direct ship, that shits expensive.
Also, publishers are that great either, you should see their markups.
How? :huh:
there are different buying levels. 1 ISBN is like 150 or something, buy 1000 and you pay 1 dollar each. The whole ISBN thing is geared to major publishers.
and you need a new isbn for each "version" of your book. So you want a hardcover and a softcover? need two isbn's. Did better than you thought and want a re-print? hey, that's some more cash you have to pay for new numbers.
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:30:13 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2014, 10:26:53 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:23:45 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2014, 10:22:11 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:20:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2014, 10:12:50 PM
People will love the upcoming novel tim gets a mace in the ass by Monc E. Butt
ill get my company to print it for you. You'll at least make a profit on languish :P
eggplant publishing inc.
its actually owned by one of the richest guys in Canada :lol:
Snowtard publishing
why do you always try to hurt me so :(
Eggplants bruise easily.
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2014, 10:36:08 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:30:13 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2014, 10:26:53 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:23:45 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2014, 10:22:11 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:20:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2014, 10:12:50 PM
People will love the upcoming novel tim gets a mace in the ass by Monc E. Butt
ill get my company to print it for you. You'll at least make a profit on languish :P
eggplant publishing inc.
its actually owned by one of the richest guys in Canada :lol:
Snowtard publishing
why do you always try to hurt me so :(
Eggplants bruise easily.
:D. I can't stay mad at you
I still manage to get my hands on cheap books. :)
I think the North Koreans are also developing ISBNs.
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 01, 2014, 10:25:40 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:04:08 PM
Amazon isn't the enemy of small publishers, the ISBN numbering system hurts them more than anything else. As for why publishers don't direct ship, that shits expensive.
Also, publishers are that great either, you should see their markups.
How? :huh:
there are different buying levels. 1 ISBN is like 150 or something, buy 1000 and you pay 1 dollar each. The whole ISBN thing is geared to major publishers.
Uh... registering for an ISBN is free in Canada. At least it was when I dipped my toes into self-publishing.
Quote from: Jacob on June 02, 2014, 12:00:08 AM
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:33:21 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 01, 2014, 10:25:40 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:04:08 PM
Amazon isn't the enemy of small publishers, the ISBN numbering system hurts them more than anything else. As for why publishers don't direct ship, that shits expensive.
Also, publishers are that great either, you should see their markups.
How? :huh:
there are different buying levels. 1 ISBN is like 150 or something, buy 1000 and you pay 1 dollar each. The whole ISBN thing is geared to major publishers.
Uh... registering for an ISBN is free in Canada. At least it was when I dipped my toes into self-publishing.
the Canadian one ( CISS if I recall correctly) is free, but I don't know if it's internationally recognized. The company I work for prints mainly for American companies (or " Canadian companies" owned by American companies) so I'm not sure how much our customers use CISS.
Quote from: Jaron on June 01, 2014, 11:28:55 PM
I think the North Koreans are also developing ISBNs.
*vomits so hard they can hear it in the cheap seats*
Actually I think isbns are national, so I guess books for sale in Canada would be fine, but not the us. I wonder how publishers deal with multinational sales?
What's the value in having the numbers?
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2014, 10:12:50 PM
People will love the upcoming novel tim gets a mace in the ass by Monc E. Butt
Pre-ordered.
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:33:21 PM
there are different buying levels. 1 ISBN is like 150 or something, buy 1000 and you pay 1 dollar each. The whole ISBN thing is geared to major publishers.
That's pocket change. Its $0.015 per book for a run of 10,000. If your margin is so tight as to make that an issue, you have bigger problems.
But suppose you're a niche author like Monc E. Butt, hoping to sell 150 copies to friends and Languishites at a buck a piece, that just wiped out your entire gross.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on June 02, 2014, 11:56:56 AM
But suppose you're a niche author like Monc E. Butt, hoping to sell 150 copies to friends and Languishites at a buck a piece, that just wiped out your entire gross.
You self-published and don't buy ISBNs.
Quote from: derspiess on June 02, 2014, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2014, 10:12:50 PM
People will love the upcoming novel tim gets a mace in the ass by Monc E. Butt
Pre-ordered.
I'll plot the sequels. :w00t:
Under Amazon's marketplace model, nearly all 2nd hand books tend towards 1 penny in price.
It's not solely their doing, it's just a continuation of something that started more than 15 years ago; easy internet searching for titles means near perfect knowledge of the current market price.
So since then we've seen a gradual accumulation of 'clout' with Amazon, as first the small independents go, then most of the high street chains.
That still leaves a lot of people trying to off-load books into one marketplace, where price it all but king.
Don't believe me, just list a book on Amazon, someone will undercut the price, if it's a big dealer it'll happen in 30 minutes. Then watch as someone else, maybe a private seller undercuts them by a penny.
But there'll always be several others to undercut that, so watch the market price race to 1 penny, and the marketplace for that book will end up with numerous people all selling at 1 penny and hoping to make something back on the fixed $4 (not sure what it is in USA) shipping fee.
Which again favours the few big recyclers/dealers who've heavily discounted shipping rates.
The upshot of this is that other than rarities, specific niche titles, the vast majority of books are now worthless, there only remaining value is the actual written contents or maybe the emotional attachment you have to them. :cool:
I used to be able to dump a lot of old books on half.com before ebay bought them. Sometimes I got more than what I paid. But yeah, those days are long gone.
Quote from: mongers on June 02, 2014, 01:35:13 PM
The upshot of this is that other than rarities, specific niche titles, the vast majority of books are now worthless, there only remaining value is the actual written contents or maybe the emotional attachment you have to them. :cool:
Woah the Capitalists really have hung themselves on their own metaphorical rope....at least in this one industry.
Quote from: HVC on June 02, 2014, 12:08:04 AM
the Canadian one ( CISS if I recall correctly) is free, but I don't know if it's internationally recognized. The company I work for prints mainly for American companies (or " Canadian companies" owned by American companies) so I'm not sure how much our customers use CISS.
CISS = Canadian ISBN Service System
It's the way you register for an ISBN in Canada, and it's free.
Canadian ISBN, so worthless they cannot even give it away?
Sorry I find it funny that a dude who works in publishing in Canada knows basically nothing about it.
Quote from: Valmy on June 02, 2014, 03:29:26 PM
Canadian ISBN, so worthless they cannot even give it away?
Sorry I find it funny that a dude who works in publishing in Canada knows basically nothing about it.
HVC works in publishing? :unsure:
I know it's publish or perish, but publishing in Canada? I'd rather be a pedlar.
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:23:45 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2014, 10:22:11 PM
Quote from: HVC on June 01, 2014, 10:20:32 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 01, 2014, 10:12:50 PM
People will love the upcoming novel tim gets a mace in the ass by Monc E. Butt
ill get my company to print it for you. You'll at least make a profit on languish :P
eggplant publishing inc.
its actually owned by one of the richest guys in Canada :lol:
Um so he said his company would print his book, Ed made up a joke name for this publishing company, and HVC said it was owned by a rich Canuck. So he works for a publishing company that is not in publishing BB? I mean if a Porto-Canuck is pushing typical Porto-Canuck lies I can understand.
Quote from: Valmy on June 02, 2014, 03:29:26 PM
Canadian ISBN, so worthless they cannot even give it away?
Sorry I find it funny that a dude who works in publishing in Canada knows basically nothing about it.
im an accountant in a printing company, so I'm vaguely aware of publishing matters :P . Most of the publishers who print with us are american, or American owned so what little I know of isbn's is based on the American one (bowker managed, who is also a publisher but I don't know if it's the same company. Probably though)
Bah you work in publishing. Just like the secretary for the GM of the Green Bay Packers works in Professional Sports.
Anyway damn our cabal of accountants is impressive. If they ever allied with the Lawyer cabal they could seize power from the Engineers who run this forum.
Publishers usually don't print. Or at least not a large part of their catalogue. There are exceptions like the Mormons. Ya, didn't know they had their own publisher/printing company either.
Do they ever pull you off the books in crunch time to help with proofreading Hillary? :P
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 02, 2014, 03:48:39 PM
Do they ever pull you off the books in crunch time to help with proofreading Hillary? :P
files supplied as is :lol:
Quote from: Valmy on June 02, 2014, 03:46:57 PM
Bah you work in publishing. Just like the secretary for the GM of the Green Bay Packers works in Professional Sports.
Or Derspiess. ;)
That is indeed some absurd whining. I had to look up the author; it seems that bitching is something he's know for.
I'm not 100% sure what he's whining about.
Quote from: Ideologue on June 02, 2014, 05:02:18 PM
I'm not 100% sure what he's whining about.
The stupidity of book publishers?
Quote from: Ideologue on June 02, 2014, 05:02:18 PM
I'm not 100% sure what he's whining about.
Amazon not giving much money to book publishers.
Christ Michael Wolff's unbearable :bleeding:
I didn't know who he was till now, but I agree.
Quote from: Ideologue on June 02, 2014, 05:02:18 PM
I'm not 100% sure what he's whining about.
I think it is: "Things used to be better. Freeer." Don't see how.
Wow, that article is phenomenally bitter.
I collaborate with the marketing department of a pretty big Spanish publisher (I write copy for their campaigns), they aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on June 02, 2014, 11:56:56 AM
But suppose you're a niche author like Monc E. Butt, hoping to sell 150 copies to friends and Languishites at a buck a piece, that just wiped out your entire gross.
Even after wiping, it will still be plenty gross.
Quote from: mongers on June 02, 2014, 01:35:13 PM
The upshot of this is that other than rarities, specific niche titles, the vast majority of books are now worthless, there only remaining value is the actual written contents or maybe the emotional attachment you have to them. :cool:
Most second hand books have always had near zero market value as anyone who ever attended a tag sale could notice. What has changed is the ability for buyers to find matching seller - which is now fast, convenient and virtually costless.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 03, 2014, 10:30:03 AM
Most second hand books have always had near zero market value as anyone who ever attended a tag sale could notice. What has changed is the ability for buyers to find matching seller - which is now fast, convenient and virtually costless.
Half Price books became the 5th-largest bookstore chain in the US on top of used books (and other stuff, but mostly books).
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 03, 2014, 10:30:03 AM
Quote from: mongers on June 02, 2014, 01:35:13 PM
The upshot of this is that other than rarities, specific niche titles, the vast majority of books are now worthless, there only remaining value is the actual written contents or maybe the emotional attachment you have to them. :cool:
Most second hand books have always had near zero market value as anyone who ever attended a tag sale could notice. What has changed is the ability for buyers to find matching seller - which is now fast, convenient and virtually costless.
Undoubtably, but I think a this new Internet driven market is significantly increasing the percent of 2nd hand titles that are 'worthless'.
Not that I'm complaining as I pick up lots of books on amazon for a penny. :)