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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Syt on May 20, 2014, 03:12:54 PM

Title: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Syt on May 20, 2014, 03:12:54 PM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-20/immigration-boom-propels-germany-past-u-k-in-new-oecd-ranking.html

QuoteGermany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking

Germany has risen to become the world's number two destination for permanent migration, overtaking the U.K. and Canada, after the sovereign-debt crisis spurred southern Europeans to leave home, according to a survey by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

While the U.S. still draws the most settlers, Germany jumped from eighth place in 2009 to second in 2012, with permanent migration rising 38 percent on the year, according to an OECD study entitled "Migration Policy Debates," published today. Germany attracted 400,000 permanent immigrants in 2012.

"Such a strong increase from one year to another has been rarely observed in any major OECD country," Thomas Liebig, one of the study's authors, said by e-mail."We can clearly speak about a boom of migration to Germany without exaggeration."

Germany, which has Europe's oldest population and the second-lowest birthrate, after Monaco, has adapted immigration policies since 2000 to attract more high-skilled labor. Twenty-five years after former Chancellor Helmut Kohl declared that Germany "is not and can never be an immigration country," one in three migrants within Europe now moves to the nation in search of work, according to the OECD. That compares with one in 10 in 2007.

Adding Fuel

Germany, the euro area's largest economy, is key to the 18-nation currency bloc's drive to sustain a recovery from its longest-ever recession amid weak price growth. The nation's gross domestic product expanded more than economists forecast last quarter, offsetting an unexpected stalling in France and contractions from Italy to the Netherlands.

Spain has experienced the greatest immigration decline since 2007, with the number of migrants dropping to 275,000 from 692,000, according to the OECD. The organization defines permanent immigrants as foreigners settling in a country who have acquired the right to permanent residence.

A greater portion of immigrants moving to Germany is classed as "highly educated" -- 34 percent in 2012 compared with 30 percent in 2007, according to the study. The employment rate among immigrants has also increased in that period, to 69 percent from 66 percent.

Europe still lags the U.S. and Canada in attracting workers with a university-level education. Immigrants represented 31 percent of the increase in Canada's highly educated labor force between 2000 and 2010, compared with 21 percent in the U.S. and 14 percent in Europe, the findings showed.

Costing Revenue

A shortage of qualified employees is costing small and medium-sized German companies 31 billion euros ($43 billion) in lost annual revenue, according to a report in January by Ernst & Young LLP.

Without growth in the German working-age population, including through immigration, as many as 1.5 million fewer people will be available to the workforce by 2020, Bundesbank President Jens Weidmann said in September. Such a decline would cost Germany almost 70 billion euros in annual output, he said at the time.

German companies have a lack of experience in hiring from abroad even though the country's immigration rules are now among the most lenient in the OECD, the group said last year. In a 2011 survey of more than 1,100 employers, nearly 50 percent said they had never considered the possibility of hiring abroad and more than 30 percent said the process was too complicated.
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 20, 2014, 03:15:55 PM
Gott in Himmel! :o
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Valmy on May 20, 2014, 03:16:09 PM
Deutschland über alles except the US
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: The Brain on May 20, 2014, 03:22:06 PM
QuoteGermany has risen to become the world's number two destination

:bleeding: :bleeding: :bleeding:
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Ed Anger on May 20, 2014, 07:52:38 PM
Good. Stay out foreigners.
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Iormlund on May 20, 2014, 11:49:31 PM
I wouldn't assume all those immigrants are going to stay there long enough to help pay German pensions. It's very likely I'll end up in Kassel in a year or so, but I see that assignment as a stepping stone, as do most of the Spaniards already there.

Of course a nice blue-eyed blonde could persuade me to stay ...
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 20, 2014, 11:59:08 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on May 20, 2014, 11:49:31 PM
I wouldn't assume all those immigrants are going to stay there long enough to help pay German pensions. It's very likely I'll end up in Kassel in a year or so, but I see that assignment as a stepping stone, as do most of the Spaniards already there.


Kassel? Poor of you. Since it's Kassel, the year or two assignment seen only as a stepping stone makes sense indeed. :)
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Habbaku on May 21, 2014, 12:21:25 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 20, 2014, 03:22:06 PM
QuoteGermany has risen to become the world's number two destination

:bleeding: :bleeding: :bleeding:

:lol:
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Zanza on May 21, 2014, 03:30:11 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on May 20, 2014, 11:49:31 PM
I wouldn't assume all those immigrants are going to stay there long enough to help pay German pensions. It's very likely I'll end up in Kassel in a year or so, but I see that assignment as a stepping stone, as do most of the Spaniards already there.
Maybe it is different this time, but there has been continuous net immigration to Germany for several decades now and while of course people emigrated again, the number that arrived was higher than the number that departed for almost every year since about 1950.

And the beauty of a pay-as-you-go pension system is that immigrants that come to work now are immediately paying pensions. Even if they leave later, nothing is lost for Germany's social system.
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: DGuller on May 21, 2014, 07:42:06 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 20, 2014, 03:22:06 PM
QuoteGermany has risen to become the world's number two destination

:bleeding: :bleeding: :bleeding:
:lmfao:
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Iormlund on May 21, 2014, 09:11:00 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 20, 2014, 11:59:08 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on May 20, 2014, 11:49:31 PM
I wouldn't assume all those immigrants are going to stay there long enough to help pay German pensions. It's very likely I'll end up in Kassel in a year or so, but I see that assignment as a stepping stone, as do most of the Spaniards already there.


Kassel? Poor of you. Since it's Kassel, the year or two assignment seen only as a stepping stone makes sense indeed. :)

:lol:
For some reason no auto manufacturer builds factories in Ibiza, the Bahamas or Tahiti.   :(
Though I'd settle for Berlin.
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Valmy on May 21, 2014, 11:03:11 AM
Iormlund is being sent to the Spice Mines of Kassel  :(
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Syt on May 21, 2014, 11:27:23 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kassel

QuoteIn the late 18th century, Hesse-Kassel became infamous for selling mercenaries (Hessians) to the British crown to help suppress the American Revolution and to finance the construction of palaces and the landgrave's opulent lifestyle.
:bowler:
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Grey Fox on May 21, 2014, 11:33:36 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on May 21, 2014, 09:11:00 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 20, 2014, 11:59:08 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on May 20, 2014, 11:49:31 PM
I wouldn't assume all those immigrants are going to stay there long enough to help pay German pensions. It's very likely I'll end up in Kassel in a year or so, but I see that assignment as a stepping stone, as do most of the Spaniards already there.


Kassel? Poor of you. Since it's Kassel, the year or two assignment seen only as a stepping stone makes sense indeed. :)

:lol:
For some reason no auto manufacturer builds factories in Ibiza, the Bahamas or Tahiti.   :(
Though I'd settle for Berlin.

Have you tried...Mexico?
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 21, 2014, 12:11:42 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on May 21, 2014, 09:11:00 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 20, 2014, 11:59:08 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on May 20, 2014, 11:49:31 PM
I wouldn't assume all those immigrants are going to stay there long enough to help pay German pensions. It's very likely I'll end up in Kassel in a year or so, but I see that assignment as a stepping stone, as do most of the Spaniards already there.


Kassel? Poor of you. Since it's Kassel, the year or two assignment seen only as a stepping stone makes sense indeed. :)

:lol:
For some reason no auto manufacturer builds factories in Ibiza, the Bahamas or Tahiti.   :(
Though I'd settle for Berlin.

Or even Stuttgart. Wolfsburg does not rate that high but I don't think it is as bad as Kassel.
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: daveracher on May 21, 2014, 12:15:33 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on May 21, 2014, 09:11:00 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 20, 2014, 11:59:08 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on May 20, 2014, 11:49:31 PM
I wouldn't assume all those immigrants are going to stay there long enough to help pay German pensions. It's very likely I'll end up in Kassel in a year or so, but I see that assignment as a stepping stone, as do most of the Spaniards already there.


Kassel? Poor of you. Since it's Kassel, the year or two assignment seen only as a stepping stone makes sense indeed. :)


:lol:
For some reason no auto manufacturer builds factories in Ibiza, the Bahamas or Tahiti.   :(
Though I'd settle for Berlin.

I visited the BMW plant in Regensburg a couple weeks ago, seemed like a fine place to work and live.
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: dps on May 21, 2014, 07:13:49 PM
Quote from: daveracher on May 21, 2014, 12:15:33 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on May 21, 2014, 09:11:00 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 20, 2014, 11:59:08 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on May 20, 2014, 11:49:31 PM
I wouldn't assume all those immigrants are going to stay there long enough to help pay German pensions. It's very likely I'll end up in Kassel in a year or so, but I see that assignment as a stepping stone, as do most of the Spaniards already there.


Kassel? Poor of you. Since it's Kassel, the year or two assignment seen only as a stepping stone makes sense indeed. :)


:lol:
For some reason no auto manufacturer builds factories in Ibiza, the Bahamas or Tahiti.   :(
Though I'd settle for Berlin.

I visited the BMW plant in Regensburg a couple weeks ago, seemed like a fine place to work and live.


Don't think I'd actually like to live in any automotive factory, no matter how nice it might be to work there.   :D
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Ideologue on May 21, 2014, 07:19:11 PM
When I was in Atlanta, I passed the Ford (I believe it was Ford) plant.

It was a truly impressive structure.  It's a real shame the country's not full of such wonders any more.
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: garbon on May 21, 2014, 07:48:51 PM
Wonders in Atlanta...the wonders never cease.
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Ed Anger on May 21, 2014, 07:52:31 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on May 21, 2014, 07:19:11 PM
When I was in Atlanta, I passed the Ford (I believe it was Ford) plant.

It was a truly impressive structure.  It's a real shame the country's not full of such wonders any more.

The ex-GM plant in Moraine is gonna be filled with chinamen. Who I assume will be spying on Wright Patterson AFB.

Auto Glass manufacturing makes for a nice cover.
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Caliga on May 21, 2014, 08:03:24 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on May 21, 2014, 07:19:11 PM
When I was in Atlanta, I passed the Ford (I believe it was Ford) plant.

It was a truly impressive structure.  It's a real shame the country's not full of such wonders any more.
My favorite Burger King is right across the street from the Ford Kentucky Truck Plant, which is where Ford makes the F-250 thru F-550, as well as the Expedition and Lincoln Navigator.  I gaze upon it in wonder every time I chow down on a Whopper or Original Chicken Sandwich. :)
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Josquius on May 21, 2014, 08:09:28 PM
Quote from: Zanza on May 21, 2014, 03:30:11 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on May 20, 2014, 11:49:31 PM
I wouldn't assume all those immigrants are going to stay there long enough to help pay German pensions. It's very likely I'll end up in Kassel in a year or so, but I see that assignment as a stepping stone, as do most of the Spaniards already there.
Maybe it is different this time, but there has been continuous net immigration to Germany for several decades now and while of course people emigrated again, the number that arrived was higher than the number that departed for almost every year since about 1950.

And the beauty of a pay-as-you-go pension system is that immigrants that come to work now are immediately paying pensions. Even if they leave later, nothing is lost for Germany's social system.


Indeed. Having a revolving door of people from elsewhere in the eu, dedicating a few years of their productive working life and then leaving before taking much from the system, is a net gain actually.
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: DGuller on May 21, 2014, 08:15:31 PM
Quote from: Caliga on May 21, 2014, 08:03:24 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on May 21, 2014, 07:19:11 PM
When I was in Atlanta, I passed the Ford (I believe it was Ford) plant.

It was a truly impressive structure.  It's a real shame the country's not full of such wonders any more.
My favorite Burger King is right across the street from the Ford Kentucky Truck Plant, which is where Ford makes the F-250 thru F-550, as well as the Expedition and Lincoln Navigator.  I gaze upon it in wonder every time I chow down on a Whopper or Original Chicken Sandwich. :)
I take back all I said about your perverted eating habits. :hug:
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Zanza on May 21, 2014, 10:34:39 PM
Quote from: dps on May 21, 2014, 07:13:49 PM
Don't think I'd actually like to live in any automotive factory, no matter how nice it might be to work there.   :D
The Volkswagen plant in Dresden doesn't look too bad.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.glaesernemanufaktur.de%2Fgalleries%2F35%2FDie_Glaeserne_Manufaktur_08_037.jpg.jpg&hash=2037507285a57ad9f7e0eb33b4d6f60eaa3ed4d5)
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Zanza on May 21, 2014, 10:48:42 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on May 21, 2014, 09:11:00 AM
Though I'd settle for Berlin.
Mercedes has an engine plant and a van plant near Berlin (25 and 45 minutes by car from the city center).

The Mercedes and Porsche plants in Stuttgart and the BMW plant in Munich and the Ford plant in Cologne are also in fairly big cities that you can live in quite well.
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Iormlund on May 22, 2014, 10:39:13 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 21, 2014, 11:33:36 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on May 21, 2014, 09:11:00 AM
:lol:
For some reason no auto manufacturer builds factories in Ibiza, the Bahamas or Tahiti.   :(
Though I'd settle for Berlin.

Have you tried...Mexico?

We actually have a project there scheduled for Q4 or early 2015. It's in Puebla though, not the Mayan Riviera.  :(

To be honest, none of us are eager to be there.



Quote
Or even Stuttgart. Wolfsburg does not rate that high but I don't think it is as bad as Kassel.

Quote from: Zanza on May 21, 2014, 10:48:42 PM
Mercedes has an engine plant and a van plant near Berlin (25 and 45 minutes by car from the city center).

The Mercedes and Porsche plants in Stuttgart and the BMW plant in Munich and the Ford plant in Cologne are also in fairly big cities that you can live in quite well.

I'm not likely to find a job there, or Berlin. At least not now. The reason Kassel is a probable destination is my current employer is located there.

It seems silly to draw any long term plans, especially since the Spanish export sector seems to be experiencing a sort-of boom right now*. It very well may be that I'll be still here (or back here) in five years. But if I finally manage to get sent up north my idea is to spend that time re-learning German and getting an idea of what living in the country is like. Then, with contacts in place and substantial automotive experience, I'll weight my options.


* It still sucks for pretty much everybody else, but things in my field have been going "strong" for six months or so. I'm actually making more money than I did at my last job. And I've got better work conditions and good advancement opportunities.
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Valmy on May 22, 2014, 10:40:39 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on May 22, 2014, 10:39:13 AM
We actually have a project there scheduled for Q4 or early 2015. It's in Puebla though, not the Mayan Riviera.  :(

To be honest, none of us are eager to be there.

Any particular reason?  Mexico seems nice enough but I always feel awkward being a hated gringo.
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Iormlund on May 22, 2014, 10:45:21 AM
Quote from: Valmy on May 22, 2014, 10:40:39 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on May 22, 2014, 10:39:13 AM
We actually have a project there scheduled for Q4 or early 2015. It's in Puebla though, not the Mayan Riviera.  :(

To be honest, none of us are eager to be there.

Any particular reason?  Mexico seems nice enough but I always feel awkward being a hated gringo.

Crime, poverty, crime, dismal sanitation, ¿did I mention crime?
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: derspiess on May 22, 2014, 10:48:08 AM
Seriously, Valmy??  :huh:
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Valmy on May 22, 2014, 10:48:15 AM
If it makes you feel better vigilante gangs are cleaning up the streets to the extent that Nieto is going to deputize them all.  Crime problem: solved!
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Valmy on May 22, 2014, 10:48:47 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 22, 2014, 10:48:08 AM
Seriously, Valmy??  :huh:

What?
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Capetan Mihali on May 22, 2014, 11:55:43 AM
Are Americans in Mexico really thought of as "hated gringos" on a personal level?

I've been planning a trip down there for several years but am yet to pull it off.  Maybe next year.  My itinerary was going to be Mexico City - Veracruz - Puebla - Mexico City by bus.
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Sheilbh on May 22, 2014, 11:56:42 AM
I'd love to spend some time in Mexico. I've had friends who've done it and said it was great.
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Capetan Mihali on May 22, 2014, 12:01:24 PM
Come with me! :w00t: I can't find anybody who'll go with me, and although traveling solo is preferable in some situations, I think I'd feel much more at ease visiting Mexico with a companion.
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: derspiess on May 22, 2014, 12:03:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 22, 2014, 10:48:47 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 22, 2014, 10:48:08 AM
Seriously, Valmy??  :huh:

What?

Outside a few nice resort areas, Mexico is a crime-ridden shithole. 
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: derspiess on May 22, 2014, 12:04:17 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on May 22, 2014, 11:55:43 AM
Are Americans in Mexico really thought of as "hated gringos" on a personal level?

I've been planning a trip down there for several years but am yet to pull it off.  Maybe next year.  My itinerary was going to be Mexico City - Veracruz - Puebla - Mexico City by bus.

Nice knowing you :(
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Iormlund on May 22, 2014, 12:06:18 PM
Heh, you guys realise we're not going there on vacation, right? It'll be a couple months of spending 15 hours a day in a car factory, then going back to the hotel. Maybe we'll get a couple Sundays off if things are ahead of schedule.

In a nicer place I go for a walk before hitting the sack, just to disconnect for a bit and see something else than machinery, dirt and my laptop's screen.  Don't think that's wise in Mexico, even if Puebla isn't as bad as DF or the north.
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Valmy on May 22, 2014, 12:19:37 PM
Quote from: derspiess on May 22, 2014, 12:03:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 22, 2014, 10:48:47 AM
Quote from: derspiess on May 22, 2014, 10:48:08 AM
Seriously, Valmy??  :huh:

What?

Outside a few nice resort areas, Mexico is a crime-ridden shithole. 

Nonsense.  I mean there are crime ridden shitholes there make no mistake but they are pretty easy to avoid.
Title: Re: Germany Top Migration Land After U.S. in New OECD Ranking
Post by: Valmy on May 22, 2014, 12:20:19 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on May 22, 2014, 11:55:43 AM
Are Americans in Mexico really thought of as "hated gringos" on a personal level?

I don't think so but I honestly do not know.  But generally I find it uncomfortable going to a place where I stick out so much as a foreigner.  Especially for a months on end like I would if I took a job there.