The Vietnamese should have just opened fire. :mad:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-27293314
QuoteVietnam and China ships 'collide in South China Sea'
Vietnamese naval ships and Chinese vessels have collided in the South China Sea, Vietnamese officials say.
The incident happened as the Vietnamese navy was trying to prevent the Chinese from setting up an oil rig in an area claimed by both nations.
No shots were fired, reports say. But Vietnamese officials said that water cannons were used on their ships.
The incident is the most serious between the countries at sea in years, with dozens of boats now in the area.
Vietnamese officials said on Wednesday that the Chinese ships intentionally rammed their vessels.
Several sailors were injured, AP quoted one official as saying.
Vietnamese maritime police official Ngo Ngoc Thu told media in Hanoi on Wednesday that Chinese boats had collided with Vietnamese vessels three times since 3 May.
Chinese officials said during a regular briefing on Wednesday that the oil rig was within China's territorial waters.
"The disruptive activities by the Vietnamese side are in violation of China's sovereign rights," Hua Chunying said.
The incident came as Philippine police seized a Chinese fishing boat and detained its 11 crew in another disputed part of the South China Sea on Wednesday.
The boat carrying "large numbers of endangered species" was seized "to enforce maritime laws and to uphold Philippine sovereign rights", the Philippine foreign ministry said in a statement.
'Armed men'
China's foreign ministry called the action provocative and demanded the immediate release of the fishermen, who have been taken to a Philippine port.
The Chinese fishing boat was being towed to shore and charges would be brought against the crew members, a Philippine maritime official told Reuters news agency.
China's Xinhua state news agency said the fishing boat - named as Qiongqionghai 09063 - had been seized by an "unidentified armed vessel".
"Several armed men forced themselves on to the boat and fired four or five shots in the air. They then took control of the boat," Xinhua said.
China claims ownership of large parts of the South China Sea, including shoals and reefs, located off the coast of the Philippines.
Vietnam, the Philippines, Brunei, Malaysia, China and Taiwan all have competing claims in the region.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbcimg.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F67616000%2Fgif%2F_67616829_south_china-sea_1_464.gif&hash=9fef7e9771fff8ba42d9123792f28d5fc448bf49)
To be fair if, the sail like they drive it could just have been an accident.
Quote from: HVC on May 07, 2014, 08:13:57 PM
To be fair if the sail like they drive it could just have been an accident.
Raciss
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 07, 2014, 08:14:23 PM
Quote from: HVC on May 07, 2014, 08:13:57 PM
To be fair if the sail like they drive it could just have been an accident.
Raciss
there has to be some privilege for being white.
Kinda sorta white anyway :D
Tim, you are an idiot.
China aren't even pretending to have justification for their claims there, are they. On the Senkakus China is wrong but a debate is there to be had, with the South China Sea- :lol:
It is
The End of the World
As We Know it.
This kind of bumper-cars-with-ships stuff will happen sometimes. There is a clear set of procedures for dealing with them, though, so the idea that a country needs to "open fire' to prevent them is as stupid as the idea that a person needs to "open fire" to stop someone from stealing a parking spot.
I don't know why China has suddenly donned the black mask and begun attacking its neighbors. I am sure it has to do with internal Chinese politics, but I can't seem to see any internal crises that warrant such panicky and hostile foreign policy moves. I am about half-convinced that the new Chinese rulers are just morons who don't understand the significance of attacking their neighbors. That's about the worst possible explanation, though, so i hope I'm wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_General (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_General)
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 07, 2014, 08:12:25 PM
The Vietnamese should have just opened fire. :mad:
Causing nationalistic panic in China and drawing Xi Jinping into an unwinnable war. After a decade of fighting with no resolution China withdraws. Chinese film makers create masterpieces of this dark chapter of their nations history; most notably: "Appocarypse Now."
...and now I'm going to have to sell my basketball team. :(
Raciss
Quote from: Savonarola on May 08, 2014, 07:36:04 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 07, 2014, 08:12:25 PM
The Vietnamese should have just opened fire. :mad:
Causing nationalistic panic in China and drawing Xi Jinping into an unwinnable war. After a decade of fighting with no resolution China withdraws. Chinese film makers create masterpieces of this dark chapter of their nations history; most notably: "Appocarypse Now."
Don't forget "Pratoon" and "Furr Metar Jacket", the latter a moving tale about the war experience of a Vietnamese mink coat maker.
The racism in this thread makes me sick.
CIS MALES! :mad:
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on May 08, 2014, 06:59:27 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_General (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_General)
Exactly!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfyAZTs1YXw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfyAZTs1YXw) cf. 00:43
Quote from: Syt on May 08, 2014, 07:41:41 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on May 08, 2014, 07:36:04 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 07, 2014, 08:12:25 PM
The Vietnamese should have just opened fire. :mad:
Causing nationalistic panic in China and drawing Xi Jinping into an unwinnable war. After a decade of fighting with no resolution China withdraws. Chinese film makers create masterpieces of this dark chapter of their nations history; most notably: "Appocarypse Now."
Don't forget "Pratoon" and "Furr Metar Jacket", the latter a moving tale about the war experience of a Vietnamese mink coat maker.
The hollol... the hollol...
I'm sure even a Chinaman can pronounce the name of his betrothed.
I think some chinese captain recently saw 20,000 leagues under the sea and was inspired by captain nemo.
Recklessly *descending* :contract:
Brings to mind a Stuka drone complete with sirens, which would be pretty damned awesome.
I think we'd all be happy to pay taxes for that. :)
What did Obama do during his recent Asia trip? :hmm:
Quote from: Phillip V on May 10, 2014, 12:33:19 AM
What did Obama do during his recent Asia trip? :hmm:
Appear simian.
Well, it's the U.S.' fault after all:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/09/us-china-usa-idUSBREA4804Z20140509
QuoteChina blames U.S. for stoking tensions in South China Sea
(Reuters) - China's foreign ministry blamed the United States on Friday for stoking tensions in the disputed South China Sea by encouraging countries to engage in dangerous behavior, following an uptick in tensions between China and both the Philippines and Vietnam.
China this week accused Vietnam of intentionally colliding with its ships in the South China Sea after Vietnam asserted that Chinese vessels used water cannon and rammed eight of its vessels at the weekend near an oil rig.
The United States has called China's deployment of the rig "provocative and unhelpful" to security in the region, urging restraint on all sides.
Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying repeated that the waters the rig was operating in, around the Paracel Islands, were Chinese territory and that no other country had the right to interfere.
"It must be pointed out that the recent series of irresponsible and wrong comments from the United States which neglect the facts about the relevant waters have encouraged certain countries' dangerous and provocative behavior," Hua told a daily news briefing.
"We urge the United States to act in accordance with maintaining the broader picture of regional peace and security, and act and speak cautiously on the relevant issue, stop making irresponsible remarks and do more to maintain regional peace and stability," she added.
Tensions are also brewing in another part of the sea, with Beijing demanding that the Philippines release a Chinese fishing boat and its crew seized on Tuesday off Half Moon Shoal in the Spratly Islands.
Philippine police said the boat and its crew were seized for hunting sea turtles, which are protected under local laws.
Hua said the Philippines' actions were illegal as they had entered Chinese waters to seize the boat and its crew.
"We once more demand the Philippines immediately release them unconditionally ... China reserves the right to take further action," she said, without elaborating.
Manila says the Chinese boat was seized 60 miles off Palawan island, within a 200-mile (320-kilometre) exclusive economic zone declared by the Philippines.
The incident coincided with annual war games this week in the Philippines involving 5,500 American and Filipino soldiers and marines, focusing on maritime security.
Up in the northern Zambales coastline, Philippine and U.S. marines, in rubber boats, assaulted an isolated beach in a mock battle to test the combat readiness of the two oldest allies in Asia-Pacific region.
They also conducted a staff exercise focused on maritime security, responding to a simulated attack on a gas platform and pipeline in western Palawan island.
"We are only testing our contingency plans. This is purely simulations. We are not talking of any particular third country involved in the attack," said a senior Philippine naval officer, who declined to be named because he was not authorized to talk to the press.
China claims almost the entire South China Sea, rejecting rival claims to parts or all of the oil and gas rich waters from Vietnam, the Philippines, Taiwan, Malaysia and Brunei.
Last month, the Philippines and United States signed a new security pact allowing American forces wider access to local bases and to build storage facilities as part of U.S. President Barack Obama's "pivot" to Asia policy.
Obama, during a two-day visit to Manila, promised "ironclad" commitment to defend the Philippines, a former American colony, from external aggression.
Vietnam does whatever we tell them to do.
Quote from: Valmy on May 10, 2014, 01:03:50 PM
Vietnam does whatever we tell them to do.
Always has, always will.
CHINESE RAMMING MEGATHREAD
Is Tim a North Korean agent sent to undermine the morale of the democratic south and generally jinx the country ? <_<
All he has to say is "those South Korean wargames we're pretty neat" and the country collapses mounting an ineffective defence against north hordes precipiated by his use of the above trigger phrase. :ph34r:
I think it's a good thing that the Tim isn't controlling our military. Or any military.
We could get some strongly worded hashtags against the chinesse.
That shall teach them.
Looks like matters are continuing to escalate.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/18/world/asia/vietnam-china-tensions/index.html
QuoteChina evacuates thousands of citizens from Vietnam after deadly attacks
By Jethro Mullen, CNN
May 18, 2014 -- Updated 1528 GMT (2328 HKT)
Hong Kong (CNN) -- China has evacuated more than 3,000 of its citizens from Vietnam and is sending ships to retrieve more of them after deadly anti-Chinese violence erupted last week over a territorial dispute between the two countries.
Five Chinese ships will travel to Vietnam to help with the evacuation, the official Chinese news agency Xinhua reported Sunday, citing the Ministry of Transport. One of the ships has already set off from the southern island province of Hainan, the ministry said.
Sixteen critically injured Chinese citizens were flown out of Vietnam on Sunday morning on a chartered medical plane organized by Chinese authorities, Xinhua said.
Two Chinese citizens were killed and more than 100 others were injured in the violence that hit parts of Vietnam last week, according to the news agency. Some of the worst violence appeared to have taken place in the central coastal province of Ha Tinh.
Foreign factories, particularly those run by companies from China and Taiwan, were burned and looted by rioters outraged over Beijing's decision to send an oil rig into waters of the South China Sea that both countries claim as sovereign territory.
Protests spin out of control
Vietnamese authorities initially allowed protests, which are usually forbidden in the country, to take place over the Chinese move. But after the unrest spiraled lethally out of control, the government tried to rein in its angry citizens.
On Saturday, the government sent out a series of text messages to cell-phone users saying Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung was urging people "not to participate in illegal protests that cause public disorder and harm social safety."
Chinese officials have repeatedly called on Vietnam to take action over the riots, protect Chinese citizens and help victims.
Vietnamese authorities have arrested hundreds of suspects and started legal proceedings against several of them, Vietnam's state-run news agency VNA reported Saturday, citing Minister of Public Security Tran Dai Quang.
He described the attacks as regrettable, saying dozens of police officers were injured as they tried to bring the situation under control.
Ships clash at sea
But out in the South China Sea, neither side appears to be showing any sign of backing down over the territorial dispute that sparked the violence.
VNA on Saturday accused China of continuing to show "its aggressiveness by sending more military ships" to the area around the oil rig. Vietnam has demanded that China immediately withdraw the rig from the disputed waters.
The news agency cited Nguyen Van Trung, an official at the Vietnam Fisheries Surveillance Department, as saying that China had 119 ships in the area on Saturday morning, including warships, coast guard vessels and fishing boats.
Some of the ships were provoking the Vietnamese vessels by ramming them and firing water cannons at them, he said.
'We are not afraid of trouble'
China, for its part, has continued to accuse Vietnamese ships of similar acts, saying they are trying to disrupt the oil rig's drilling operation. It has declared a three-mile exclusion zone around the rig, which is operated by the state-owned oil and gas company CNOOC.
"We do not make trouble, but we are not afraid of trouble," Gen. Fang Fenghui, the chief of the general staff of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA), said Thursday during a visit to the United States.
"In matters of territory, our attitude is firm. We won't give an inch," Fang said after meeting U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Martin Dempsey.
U.S. concerns
Relations between China and Vietnam soured earlier this month, when the Chinese platform began drilling for oil near the Paracel Islands, which are claimed by both countries.
At the time, the U.S. State Department called the move "provocative," saying it "raises tensions."
Beijing has laid claim to most of the South China Sea, putting it at odds with several of its neighbors in the region, including the Philippines and Malaysia. China is also locked in a bitter dispute with Japan over a group of tiny islands in the East China Sea.
"We have to acknowledge there are territorial disputes," including "what exactly is the status quo and who is seeking to change it," Dempsey said Thursday at the news conference with Fang of the PLA.
His comments were a veiled reference to Washington's view that Beijing is attempting to change the status quo by more aggressively seeking to establish control over disputed areas.
Protestors torch factories in southern Vietnam as China protests escalate
At least a few thousand Chinese have also fled from Vietnam to neighboring Cambodia.
Poor Taiwanese got hosed.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 19, 2014, 08:23:31 AM
Quote
"We do not make trouble, but we are not afraid of trouble," Gen. Fang Fenghui, the chief of the general staff of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA), said Thursday during a visit to the United States.
"In matters of territory, our attitude is firm. We won't give an inch," Fang said after meeting U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Martin Dempsey.
So...they don't want to fight but by Jingo if they do they've got the ships, they've got the men, and they've got the money too?
Quote from: Siege on May 14, 2014, 05:05:53 PM
We could get some strongly worded hashtags against the chinesse.
That shall teach them.
Isn't twitter blocked in China? We need a plan B here Siege.
It is ironic that the Chinese government protests when the Vietnamese government inadvertently allows the kind of "rioters get out of control and burn things down" actions that the Chinese government orchestrates in China (see, for instance, the burned-out former US consulates).
Again, I don't understand what the Chinese government hopes to accomplish here, other than to deflate their economy.
Vietnam - China's Crimea? Annexations do seem all the rage. Just yesterday, I stole three inches of my neighbour's lawn.
Quote from: Valmy on May 19, 2014, 08:42:41 AM
Quote from: Siege on May 14, 2014, 05:05:53 PM
We could get some strongly worded hashtags against the chinesse.
That shall teach them.
Isn't twitter blocked in China? We need a plan B here Siege.
Siege can tell them. I hear has a line to the Chinese government.
Quote from: Norgy on May 19, 2014, 10:00:45 AM
Vietnam - China's Crimea? Annexations do seem all the rage. Just yesterday, I stole three inches of my neighbour's lawn.
I'm thinking of annexing my neighbor's 1.2 acres. I'll do it the American way and pay a pittance for it.
Also, I'd like to ram the 15 year old Vietnamese girl in the neighborhood.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.deliberationroom.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F03%2FBill-Murray-Caddyshack.jpg&hash=81120a85c08948a0df068ec96257c248a7701cd8)
I can see both projects intertwine into one MEGA PROJECT, with a high risk and maybe free labour.
Quote from: grumbler on May 19, 2014, 09:50:51 AM
Again, I don't understand what the Chinese government hopes to accomplish here, other than to deflate their economy.
It's straight out of the post-war Chinese crisis management playbook: they push around a weaker power in a carefully crafted and manufactured incident that they can not only directly manage and control at every step, but with high probability result in the conclusion they want.
It's not so much a salami slice as it is a test case for more fun down the road, involving stronger powers with greater challenges. I can't wait when Japan goes all improv and fucks up their part of the Chinese script.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 19, 2014, 04:48:08 PM
It's straight out of the post-war Chinese crisis management playbook: they push around a weaker power in a carefully crafted and manufactured incident that they can not only directly manage and control at every step, but with high probability result in the conclusion they want.
It's not so much a salami slice as it is a test case for more fun down the road, involving stronger powers with greater challenges. I can't wait when Japan goes all improv and fucks up their part of the Chinese script.
I don't think so. I think that the new Chinese leadership is trying out a new strategy that is far more risky than anything they have attempted since Deng came into power. Deng and his successors understood that China doesn't need to be a foreign-policy giant. Time is on their side. The only thing that can stop their inevitable rise to great power status is impatience. Unfortunately, the new leadership is impatient. We've seen this before, and it didn't work out well for the impatient one:
(https://images.asc.ohio-state.edu/is/image/cartoonimages/B/ba4173fc-f795-4325-b262-f0fe01402b1d.jpg/?size=450,450&fmt=png&layer=1&src=cartoonimages/watermarks/cgra/watermark.gif&rotate=-60&opac=40&sizeN=1,1)
Yeah, I'm not liking this bullshit.
Apparently the Chinese rumour mill has it that it's the result of more internal wrangling.
It seems that the contentious oil platforms are owned - either directly or indirectly, I'm not sure - by senior military types. The escalated tension is seen as a message to Li and his allies not to mess with them and their investments, in the wake of of Li's visit to Hanoi.
That interpretation does seem somewhat reasonable to me since it doesn't seem that coherent a policy for Li to go to Hanoi and be all about strengthening ties etc, and then following up with deliberately escalating tensions.