http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/23/mynypd-twitter-call-out-new-york-police-backfires
QuoteNYPD's Twitter feed deluged with images of brutal arrests and shooting victims after attempt to highlight best of officers' work
When the New York police department invited people to tweet pictures of their dealings with "New York's finest" with the hashtag #myNYPD, what could possibly go wrong?
The attempt at public outreach, however, backfired spectacularly when users flooded Twitter with hundreds of photos of police brutality during Occupy Wall Street, one of an 84-year-old man brutalised for jaywalking – and even a dog being frisked.
By midnight on Tuesday, more than 70,000 people had tweeted about police brutality, ridiculing the NYPD for a social media disaster and recalling the names of people shot dead by police.
Police officials declined to respond to questions about the comments, which were being posted at a rate of 10,000 an hour, or say who was behind the Twitter idea. But they did release a short statement.
"The NYPD is creating new ways to communicate effectively with the community," Kim Royster, an NYPD spokeswoman told the New York Daily News. "Twitter provides an open forum for an uncensored exchange and this is an open dialogue good for our city."
The request for pictures, on the @NYPDNews Twitter page, had said: "Do you have a photo w/ a member of the NYPD? Tweet us & tag it #myNYPD," the message read. "It may be featured on our Facebook."
It prompted a flood pictures of officers mistreating people and old newspaper headlines about unarmed people being shot dead by police. It also sparked similar hashtag trends – including #myLAPD – and attracted international attention.
Not all the posts were negative. JP Quinn, 40, tweeted a picture from inside the old Yankee Stadium with his brother Michael, 38, who is a detective in Brooklyn South. "I like when they make public efforts like this. It's a shame that it blew up like this," Quinn told the Daily News. "I just assumed it would be all roses, like whoever came up with that for the NYPD."
The NYPD tried to make the best of a botched job by retweeting all the favourable photos.
Last year, Wall Street giant JP Morgan was at the centre of a social media storm when it invited Twitter users to send questions to an executive using the hashtag #AskJPM. The bank was deluged with vitriol. More than 8,000 responses were sent within a six-hour period, two-thirds of which were negative.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuproxx.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F04%2F3-my-nypd.jpg&hash=7fe11c0997cf70e7b23022a59e898e1e7ea28af9)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.nydailynews.com%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.1765157.1398198768%21%2Fimg%2FhttpImage%2Fimage.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Farticle_1200%2Fnypd23n-2-web.jpg&hash=1af74133883949e2a378aa96062d165ce5d8c349)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.nydailynews.com%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.1765204.1398201410%21%2Fimg%2FhttpImage%2Fimage.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Farticle_1200%2Farticle-nypd2-0422.jpg&hash=f988bb1f040c6bf147eebe52689bd9ca923bcf24)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbossip.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F04%2Fmynypd-feat.jpg&hash=d322343b0b4d749a7f372491702d68c7dae2b48d)
When I saw this, I wasn't sure. Is officer asleep in first photo?
Quote from: garbon on April 23, 2014, 11:00:17 AM
When I saw this, I wasn't sure. Is officer asleep in first photo?
There's a second picture of him from the front:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bl5OhIFCIAAKlSL.jpg)
Is sleeping on the NY subway verboten?
I've never heard of such / plenty of people do it. Still as an officer seems problematic given that he appears to have a gun on him?
Yeah I saw this on Twitter last night. What a PR triumph from the NYPD :lol:
Quote from: garbon on April 23, 2014, 11:04:13 AM
I've never heard of such / plenty of people do it. Still as an officer seems problematic given that he appears to have a gun on him?
Yeah, I get that. But the guy in the tweet said he got ticketed for it.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 23, 2014, 11:05:01 AM
Yeah I saw this on Twitter last night. What a PR triumph from the NYPD :lol:
I find it's a case of "Duh, what did they expect?" It's the internet, after all.
Hopefully they'll take a message out of this, and not just shut it down as a failed PR experiment. In my experience, NYPD officers are the biggest unprofessional jerks by far out of all cops I've had contact with or seen in action personally, and I've never even had an encounter with them that was adversarial in any way.
Quote from: Syt on April 23, 2014, 11:05:27 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 23, 2014, 11:04:13 AM
I've never heard of such / plenty of people do it. Still as an officer seems problematic given that he appears to have a gun on him?
Yeah, I get that. But the guy in the tweet said he got ticketed for it.
Apparently you can get arrested for it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/07/nyregion/minor-offense-on-ny-subway-can-bring-ticket-or-handcuffs.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Though odd given that I've been on trains plenty of times with homeless individuals camped out on train.
Well, I guess it will depend on circumstances, mood of the officer, whether other passengers are around or not etc. etc.
It still seems weird, though, that you can get arrested for these things.
Non-Irish cops are scums.
Quote from: Syt on April 23, 2014, 11:19:02 AM
Well, I guess it will depend on circumstances, mood of the officer, whether other passengers are around or not etc. etc.
It still seems weird, though, that you can get arrested for these things.
Yeah sort of like a lot of regulations we have. In existence so they can hassle you if they want. <_<
For such a liberal city, NYC does have a pretty heavy-handed (and, let's face it, racially profiling) police force (unless you have a PBA card from your cop relative or friend, in which case you are immune from enforcement of all minor infractions, and sometimes not-so-minor).
Quote from: DGuller on April 23, 2014, 11:25:39 AM
For such a liberal city, NYC does have a pretty heavy-handed (and, let's face it, racially profiling) police force (unless you have a PBA card from your cop relative or friend, in which case you are immune from enforcement of all minor infractions, and sometimes not-so-minor).
I'm sure that will change with the current mayor & will go back to being a crime-ridden shithole like it used to be.
Quote from: derspiess on April 23, 2014, 11:32:20 AM
Quote from: DGuller on April 23, 2014, 11:25:39 AM
For such a liberal city, NYC does have a pretty heavy-handed (and, let's face it, racially profiling) police force (unless you have a PBA card from your cop relative or friend, in which case you are immune from enforcement of all minor infractions, and sometimes not-so-minor).
I'm sure that will change with the current mayor & will go back to being a crime-ridden shithole like it used to be.
I'm not surprised that an uninformed and, let's face it, stupid man like yourself buys into the fairy tails about the iron fist that saved New York, but unsurprisingly reality is usually more complicated than simple fairy tales for simple men. Enforcing professional conduct doesn't come at a cost of increased crime (if anything, increased respect for police by law-abiding citizens is probably a good thing). Turning a blind eye towards petty corruption like PBA cards or ticket fixing likewise doesn't lead to higher crimes. And beside all of that, policing is always a compromise between safety and freedom, which implies that you can go too far in either direction.
Quote from: DGuller on April 23, 2014, 12:01:19 PM
I'm not surprised that an uninformed and, let's face it, stupid man like yourself
:hug:
Quotebuys into the fairy tails about the iron fist that saved New York, but unsurprisingly reality is usually more complicated than simple fairy tales for simple men.
Deny it all you want, but I could tell a difference after Giuliani took over. Perhaps you've fallen in one of those "too close to see it" type paradoxes.
QuoteEnforcing professional conduct doesn't come at a cost of increased crime (if anything, increased respect for police by law-abiding citizens is probably a good thing). Turning a blind eye towards petty corruption like PBA cards or ticket fixing likewise doesn't lead to higher crimes.
I don't disagree with this.
QuoteAnd beside all of that, policing is always a compromise between safety and freedom, which implies that you can go too far in either direction.
Yep, and that's what will happen with this commie clown as mayor.
Quote from: derspiess on April 23, 2014, 12:16:25 PM
Deny it all you want, but I could tell a difference after Giuliani took over. Perhaps you've fallen in one of those "too close to see it" type paradoxes.
I saw reports of studies that attributed the decline in crime in NYC to demographic and economic factors; it was mirrored by similar declines in other places that had a similar trajectory as well as a general decline in crime on a national level.
Quote from: derspiess on April 23, 2014, 12:16:25 PM
Deny it all you want, but I could tell a difference after Giuliani took over. Perhaps you've fallen in one of those "too close to see it" type paradoxes.
Of perhaps you've fallen for one of those "too removed to know anything other than what ideologues drill into you" paradoxes.
Of course, I'm being flip. There are plenty of people to NYC that believe in fairy tales that can be disproved by facts they should know (but don't care to). My sister had that similar chicken-little reaction to the new mayor, saying that NYC would be back to the out-of-control crime like it was under incompetent Dinkins. Of course, she was quite surprised to learn that Raymond Kelly's first reign as a commissioner was under Dinkins, or that crime started its dip down under Dinkins.
I've slept in the subway many times. Hell, anything was better than going back to Pet Clark's place for the night, even standing in the pouring rain. :glare:
Quote from: DGuller on April 23, 2014, 12:36:19 PM
Of course, I'm being flip. There are plenty of people to NYC that believe in fairy tales that can be disproved by facts they should know (but don't care to). My sister had that similar chicken-little reaction to the new mayor, saying that NYC would be back to the out-of-control crime like it was under incompetent Dinkins. Of course, she was quite surprised to learn that Raymond Kelly's first reign as a commissioner was under Dinkins, or that crime started its dip down under Dinkins.
You are lying. Dinkins was a commie clown. Crime increases under commie clowns. Ergo, crime increased under Dinkins. Ergo, claims that the crime rate started its decline under Dinkins are lies, no matter what the statistics say.
#Rushisalwaysright
Don't ever change, grumblie :)
Quote from: derspiess on April 23, 2014, 12:53:39 PM
Don't ever change, grumblie :)
I won't, and you can't. :)
:face:
Lord knows, I can't change.
Quote from: Syt on April 23, 2014, 10:41:12 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuproxx.files.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F04%2F3-my-nypd.jpg&hash=7fe11c0997cf70e7b23022a59e898e1e7ea28af9)
Wait, can you get ticketed for sleeping in a subway car?
Gotta say my experience with the NYPD was great while I lived here, always seemed very polite and helpful. But I guess I wasn't susceptible to get profiled.
Quote from: celedhring on April 23, 2014, 02:28:42 PM
Wait, can you get ticketed arrested for sleeping in a subway car?
If you read the article, it has a few people recounting their experiences being handcuffed and spending 12 hours locked up before having to go in front of a judge and enter some type of plea to this crime. :blink:
I've known about some of the crazily excessive things the NYPD has been empowered to cite people for (like sitting on milk crates), for a long time, but this is honestly a new one. I had no idea sleeping on the subway wasn't allowed.
Sleeping on the subway while impersonating a police officer.
Quote from: Jacob on April 23, 2014, 12:21:47 PM
I saw reports of studies that attributed the decline in crime in NYC to demographic and economic factors; it was mirrored by similar declines in other places that had a similar trajectory as well as a general decline in crime on a national level.
Yeah. There's been a general decline within the western world despite different systems, social problems and policing strategies.
I always find and this is only this forum, that Americans here seem to have a far more deferential attitude to the police and, so, different limits on what's acceptable. The attitude seems very different from a British (and Canadian?) 'policing by consent' view.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 23, 2014, 03:15:22 PM
I always find and this is only this forum, that Americans here seem to have a far more deferential attitude to the police and, so, different limits on what's acceptable. The attitude seems very different from a British (and Canadian?) 'policing by consent' view.
I have a deferential attitude (yes, massah) because I don't need to be hassled. Resistance is futile. :(
That's no joke. Unless you're at the extreme of shooting back at them and have made peace with your gods, there's no point in doing anything but complying 100%.
Last time I got pulled over was okay, though. Tail light went out and turns out my license had expired (I forgot -_- ) but he let me drive home with the promise to go to the DMV the next day. Good fellow.
The ideal is to find some way of manifesting total deference while also safeguarding your rights against self-incrimination and unreasonable searches. The answer to "Then you don't mind if I look around your car/pockets/house?" has always got to be "Yes, I do mind," delivered as politely as possible. So many people end up trying to talk their way out of a police encounter and end up completely sinking their chances to beat the case later.
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on April 23, 2014, 03:57:43 PM
The ideal is to find some way of manifesting total deference while also safeguarding your rights against self-incrimination and unreasonable searches. The answer to "Then you don't mind if I look around your car/pockets/house?" has always got to be "Yes, I do mind," delivered as politely as possible. So many people end up trying to talk their way out of a police encounter and end up completely sinking their chances to beat the case later.
In my experience people get out of a police encounter exactly what they deserve.
When I was in a fraternity while in law school, I set down some very basic guidelines for the brothers if they ever dealt with police (and we did, from time to time, for noise complaints mostly). It was to be unfailingly polite and courteous, to go along with any request, and to politely not allow police to come into the house. The guys followed my rules and never had any issues.
Contrast that of course to the numerous files I see where the person speaking with police starts with "fucking pigs!" and it degenerates from there...
I'd tase Beeb if I was a cop.
Good thing I fixed that autocorrect. :lol:
Quote from: Barrister on April 23, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on April 23, 2014, 03:57:43 PM
The ideal is to find some way of manifesting total deference while also safeguarding your rights against self-incrimination and unreasonable searches. The answer to "Then you don't mind if I look around your car/pockets/house?" has always got to be "Yes, I do mind," delivered as politely as possible. So many people end up trying to talk their way out of a police encounter and end up completely sinking their chances to beat the case later.
In my experience people get out of a police encounter exactly what they deserve.
When I was in a fraternity while in law school, I set down some very basic guidelines for the brothers if they ever dealt with police (and we did, from time to time, for noise complaints mostly). It was to be unfailingly polite and courteous, to go along with any request, and to politely not allow police to come into the house. The guys followed my rules and never had any issues.
Contrast that of course to the numerous files I see where the person speaking with police starts with "fucking pigs!" and it degenerates from there...
Yeah when I got pulled over for driving my mother's BMW and got told that I was swerving in and out of lanes and my eyes were contradicting my statement that I wasn't drunk or on drugs, that's exactly the treatment I deserved*. <_<
I don't see why I should have to be polite to someone who is being a jackass but I'll do it rather than risk the consequences.
*meanwhile my mother had been driving ahead of me and was a witness to both how the cop had doubled back to pull me over and to the fact that I wasn't swerving through lanes like he suggested.
You have to remember that Barrister can't wipe the beaming smile off his face for the next two days after hanging out with policemen.
Quote from: garbon on April 23, 2014, 03:18:43 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 23, 2014, 03:15:22 PM
I always find and this is only this forum, that Americans here seem to have a far more deferential attitude to the police and, so, different limits on what's acceptable. The attitude seems very different from a British (and Canadian?) 'policing by consent' view.
I have a deferential attitude (yes, massah) because I don't need to be hassled. Resistance is futile. :(
Yeah I do the same thing. Asses will be kissed whenever I have the misfortune to run into a cop. Best to just avoid them.
Quote from: Valmy on April 23, 2014, 05:37:00 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 23, 2014, 03:18:43 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 23, 2014, 03:15:22 PM
I always find and this is only this forum, that Americans here seem to have a far more deferential attitude to the police and, so, different limits on what's acceptable. The attitude seems very different from a British (and Canadian?) 'policing by consent' view.
I have a deferential attitude (yes, massah) because I don't need to be hassled. Resistance is futile. :(
Yeah I do the same thing. Asses will be kissed whenever I have the misfortune to run into a cop. Best to just avoid them.
Actually the same for border crossing. I saw this man getting all heated when they were asking about his telescope and I was like that is the wrong way to play that, sir.
Quote from: garbon on April 23, 2014, 05:41:59 PM
Actually the same for border crossing.
Oh god yes. Don't fuck around at border crossings.
Quote from: garbon on April 23, 2014, 11:04:13 AM
I've never heard of such / plenty of people do it. Still as an officer seems problematic given that he appears to have a gun on him?
They are allowed to take their guns home with them. But I suppose you shouldn't be able to doze off on the way home from a 16 hour shift. That should go in his performance jacket.
Quote from: Jacob on April 23, 2014, 12:21:47 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 23, 2014, 12:16:25 PM
Deny it all you want, but I could tell a difference after Giuliani took over. Perhaps you've fallen in one of those "too close to see it" type paradoxes.
I saw reports of studies that attributed the decline in crime in NYC to demographic and economic factors; it was mirrored by similar declines in other places that had a similar trajectory as well as a general decline in crime on a national level.
Don't bring statistical analysis into this, Jacob.
Quote from: Barrister on April 23, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on April 23, 2014, 03:57:43 PM
The ideal is to find some way of manifesting total deference while also safeguarding your rights against self-incrimination and unreasonable searches. The answer to "Then you don't mind if I look around your car/pockets/house?" has always got to be "Yes, I do mind," delivered as politely as possible. So many people end up trying to talk their way out of a police encounter and end up completely sinking their chances to beat the case later.
In my experience people get out of a police encounter exactly what they deserve.
When I was in a fraternity while in law school, I set down some very basic guidelines for the brothers if they ever dealt with police (and we did, from time to time, for noise complaints mostly). It was to be unfailingly polite and courteous, to go along with any request, and to politely not allow police to come into the house. The guys followed my rules and never had any issues.
Contrast that of course to the numerous files I see where the person speaking with police starts with "fucking pigs!" and it degenerates from there...
I've said it once, I've said it a million times: more often than not, people get themselves locked up.
Quote from: garbon on April 23, 2014, 05:26:30 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 23, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on April 23, 2014, 03:57:43 PM
The ideal is to find some way of manifesting total deference while also safeguarding your rights against self-incrimination and unreasonable searches. The answer to "Then you don't mind if I look around your car/pockets/house?" has always got to be "Yes, I do mind," delivered as politely as possible. So many people end up trying to talk their way out of a police encounter and end up completely sinking their chances to beat the case later.
In my experience people get out of a police encounter exactly what they deserve.
When I was in a fraternity while in law school, I set down some very basic guidelines for the brothers if they ever dealt with police (and we did, from time to time, for noise complaints mostly). It was to be unfailingly polite and courteous, to go along with any request, and to politely not allow police to come into the house. The guys followed my rules and never had any issues.
Contrast that of course to the numerous files I see where the person speaking with police starts with "fucking pigs!" and it degenerates from there...
Yeah when I got pulled over for driving my mother's BMW and got told that I was swerving in and out of lanes and my eyes were contradicting my statement that I wasn't drunk or on drugs, that's exactly the treatment I deserved*. <_<
I don't see why I should have to be polite to someone who is being a jackass but I'll do it rather than risk the consequences.
Yeah, the correct approach to, for example, not giving the police permission to search your vehicle is, "No sir, I don't consent to a search of my car", not "Fuck no, dickhead" no matter how much of a dickhead the guy's being.
That said, sometimes I can't resist pushing the boundaries. I think I've mentioned this incident before, but once, years ago, I got stopped at a checkpoint while driving home from work. At the time I worked at Taco Bell, and we didn't close till midnight IIRC, so it was probably between 1 and 1:30 in the morning. Anyway, there were several cars ahead of me, so I had my license, registration, and proof of insurance already out by the time an officer got to me, so he didn't have to wait for me to fumble around for them or anything. So when he asked for them (first thing, no preliminaries or such), I said, "Certainly" and haned them over promptly. After he looked at my paperwork, he asked why I was out at that time of night and I told him that I had just gotten off work and was on my way home. Then he asked, "How much have you had to drink tonight" and I answered, "None, sir" which was the truth. At that point, I thought everything had gone OK and he was just going to wave me on, but instead he said, "I don't believe you. I think you're a lying SOB. What do you have to say to that?" I said, "Well, whether you believe me or not, it's the truth." At that point, I still hadn't said anything that I could see as smarting off to him, but then he said, "Well, what if I take you to the station for a breath test" and I said, "Meh, doesn't matter to me. I'm not in any hurry to get home. You can take me in and give me a blood test too if you want, but you're going to look awfully silly when the test show I haven't been drinking. You want to waste your time, though, I don't care--like I said, I'm in no hurry". I kept a polite tone, but at that point I was definately baiting him. He made me get out of the car and frisked me, and told me to stand there while he got in his cruiser. I kind of thought that he might actually go through with taking me in, but he came back after a few minutes and told me I could go.
Another time, I had gone with a friend of mine to where he worked to pick up his paycheck. He parked and I waited in the car while he went inside. The space he was parked in was marked "reserved" but didn't have a name posted on it. Right after my friend went inside, a cop pecked on the window. (Keep in mind that I was in the front passanger seat.) When I rolled down the window, he asked me, "Is this your parking space?" I answered, "No, 'tain't my car, either." The cop asked, "Whose car is it then?" and I said, "It belongs to a friend of mine." He asked, "Well, where's this friend?" and I said, "He works here. He went inside to get his paycheck." So then the cop asked, "Is it his parking space?" and I said, "Beats me. You can ask him if you want to wait around for him to get back." The cop decided he didn't want to bother waiting and left, but told me to tell my friend not to park there anymore if it wasn't his space. I didn't call the officer any names or anything like that, and I wasn't exactly rude, but on the other hand my answers did have a pretty mocking tone to them.
The subway stuff is bizzare, falling asleep on trains happens, they're the perfect environment for that.
Sometimes a nap is a good way to make the most of the dead time too, if you're capable of it
In HK, it is an offence to use offensive language in underground trains. In theory, passengers can be fined for saying the f-word. Though in practice it is never enforced.
My best police story:
That happened in Badalona, a suburban town near Barcelona, when I was 17. It was one of our friends' birthday and we decided to throw him a surprise party. We have a few drinks over it and the genius plan emerges: dress up as women in bondage and go fetch him at his home and then take him on a binge. Simple minds, simple ideas.
So we go and buy the costumes. Wigs, fake breasts, wips, bonds, the whole lot. We decide - naturally - not to dress up yet so we stash the costumes in the trunk of the car and set to drive to our friends house.
Now, this was a time (mid 90s) where there had been a major spike in design drug trafficking in the area - there were some pretty major discos there that guzzled them by the wholesome (I have a Darwin Awards story about that too) - so police had been stepping up efforts to try to curb it. And so it happens, we were stopped by the police.
Now, the driver hadn't had a drink, but the rest of us were a bit smacked. So the policeman asks us where we are going, checks that the driver is okay. And then asks: "Do you mind if I check your trunk?".
And then we think, The breasts! The wigs! The bondage apparel! And our alcohol-addled brains make us scream. NO YOU CAN'T!!!!
"Why not?" Says the policeman. Then uncomfortable silence, as we were aware we couldn't look more suspicious if we tried now. But oh, we CAN try - one of us says, in a bout of stupidity - "because you can't see what's in there!!!"
Long story short, we were marshaled to the station, our costumes were found, searched for hidden drugs (They even brought the dogs as they were surprised they didn't find any given our behavior) and our friend was left without birthday party.
Fortunately we avoided them calling our parents since at the end, the only thing they could pin on us was being stupid.
Was Franco still in power? I'm not 100% up on my Spanish history. :hmm:
Actually, I dunno, all that might meet probable cause in the U.S. I don't think it would.
Quote from: Ideologue on April 24, 2014, 03:50:07 AM
Was Franco still in power? I'm not 100% up on my Spanish history. :hmm:
Actually, I dunno, all that might meet probable cause in the U.S. I don't think it would.
"Francisco Franco is still dead" - SNL sometime in the 1970s
Quote from: Barrister on April 23, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on April 23, 2014, 03:57:43 PM
The ideal is to find some way of manifesting total deference while also safeguarding your rights against self-incrimination and unreasonable searches. The answer to "Then you don't mind if I look around your car/pockets/house?" has always got to be "Yes, I do mind," delivered as politely as possible. So many people end up trying to talk their way out of a police encounter and end up completely sinking their chances to beat the case later.
In my experience people get out of a police encounter exactly what they deserve.
When I was in a fraternity while in law school, I set down some very basic guidelines for the brothers if they ever dealt with police (and we did, from time to time, for noise complaints mostly). It was to be unfailingly polite and courteous, to go along with any request, and to politely not allow police to come into the house. The guys followed my rules and never had any issues.
Contrast that of course to the numerous files I see where the person speaking with police starts with "fucking pigs!" and it degenerates from there...
Depends on the police. What you say generally works in places like Canada and the UK, probably not in NK, Uzbekistan and the like. Then we have the arguable cases, say a scruffy black fellow on the subway and the NYPD, is politeness enough for him to receive decent treatment?
Quote from: Ideologue on April 24, 2014, 03:50:07 AM
Was Franco still in power? I'm not 100% up on my Spanish history. :hmm:
Actually, I dunno, all that might meet probable cause in the U.S. I don't think it would.
Franco had been a corpse for 20 years. And I'm sure our rights were infringed upon, we were too scared and stupid to realize.
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on April 24, 2014, 04:02:00 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 23, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on April 23, 2014, 03:57:43 PM
The ideal is to find some way of manifesting total deference while also safeguarding your rights against self-incrimination and unreasonable searches. The answer to "Then you don't mind if I look around your car/pockets/house?" has always got to be "Yes, I do mind," delivered as politely as possible. So many people end up trying to talk their way out of a police encounter and end up completely sinking their chances to beat the case later.
In my experience people get out of a police encounter exactly what they deserve.
When I was in a fraternity while in law school, I set down some very basic guidelines for the brothers if they ever dealt with police (and we did, from time to time, for noise complaints mostly). It was to be unfailingly polite and courteous, to go along with any request, and to politely not allow police to come into the house. The guys followed my rules and never had any issues.
Contrast that of course to the numerous files I see where the person speaking with police starts with "fucking pigs!" and it degenerates from there...
Depends on the police. What you say generally works in places like Canada and the UK, probably not in NK, Uzbekistan and the like. Then we have the arguable cases, say a scruffy black fellow on the subway and the NYPD, is politeness enough for him to receive decent treatment?
I've only had 1 encounter with cops, but I wasn't particularly impressed. When I was about 20 in Toronto, some friends and I were driving late at night and pulled over by the police (my friend was using a legal temporary license plate), and the police were absolute dicks. One of the first questions the cop asked my mixed-race friend was, apropos of nothing, "what's your race, son? Mulatto?" Though we had done nothing wrong, they were pretty rude and abusive the whole time before letting us drive off.
Mulatto? Really?
Quote from: Barrister on April 23, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
In my experience people get out of a police encounter exactly what they deserve.
In my experience people get out of a police encounter the lessor of what they deserve and what the cops wants to hand out. Many (though not, in my experience, by any means most) cops are cops because they get off on the power, and endure the shit parts of the job because they get to experience the power portions. No one who runs into those cops gets what he or she deserves.
Quote from: Camerus on April 24, 2014, 05:17:44 AM
I've only had 1 encounter with cops, but I wasn't particularly impressed. When I was about 20 in Toronto, some friends and I were driving late at night and pulled over by the police (my friend was using a legal temporary license plate), and the police were absolute dicks. One of the first questions the cop asked my mixed-race friend was, apropos of nothing, "what's your race, son? Mulatto?" Though we had done nothing wrong, they were pretty rude and abusive the whole time before letting us drive off.
Best answer to "what's your race, son?" is "the 200 meters, sir!"
Quote from: grumbler on April 24, 2014, 06:36:46 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 23, 2014, 04:16:40 PM
In my experience people get out of a police encounter exactly what they deserve.
In my experience people get out of a police encounter the lessor of what they deserve and what the cops wants to hand out. Many (though not, in my experience, by any means most) cops are cops because they get off on the power, and endure the shit parts of the job because they get to experience the power portions. No one who runs into those cops gets what he or she deserves.
Even with dick cops extreme politeness is usually the best strategy (though understandably pride may get in the way of it). One of the aspects of power is discretion: you don't get off by fucking with everyone, you get off by choosing who you want to fuck with. Letting someone off for being submissive to you can give as much of a power boner as fucking with someone for pissing them off.
Quote from: DGuller on April 24, 2014, 07:25:41 AM
Even with dick cops extreme politeness is usually the best strategy (though understandably pride may get in the way of it). One of the aspects of power is discretion: you don't get off by fucking with everyone, you get off by choosing who you want to fuck with. Letting someone off for being submissive to you can give as much of a power boner as fucking with someone for pissing them off.
No question. Belligerent attitudes towards cops of either persuasion is a bad idea. With a good cop, though, repsect will garner you respect. With a bad cop, respect will garner you contempt.
Better to have your own teeth than a bad cop's respect, though.
Quote from: celedhring on April 24, 2014, 04:06:10 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on April 24, 2014, 03:50:07 AM
Was Franco still in power? I'm not 100% up on my Spanish history. :hmm:
Actually, I dunno, all that might meet probable cause in the U.S. I don't think it would.
Franco had been a corpse for 20 years. And I'm sure our rights were infringed upon, we were too scared and stupid to realize.
I was being silly, I know Franco died in the 70s. :P
In all of my various encounters with coppers, be it late night in some city centre, at demo or with regard to motor vehicles, I've never had a single problem, though I guess there's always a first time.
I think being generally confident and friendly with people/officials one encounters helps to illicit trust and confidence on their part.
Quote from: mongers on April 24, 2014, 03:42:21 PM
I think being generally confident and friendly with people/officials one encounters helps to illicit trust and confidence on their part.
:hmm:
Quote from: DGuller on April 24, 2014, 03:48:33 PM
Quote from: mongers on April 24, 2014, 03:42:21 PM
I think being generally confident and friendly with people/officials one encounters helps to illicit trust and confidence on their part.
:hmm:
Yeah, that's a pretty foreign concept.
Also, I'm sure he meant elicit.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 24, 2014, 04:02:31 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 24, 2014, 03:48:33 PM
Quote from: mongers on April 24, 2014, 03:42:21 PM
I think being generally confident and friendly with people/officials one encounters helps to illicit trust and confidence on their part.
:hmm:
Yeah, that's a pretty foreign concept.
It seems to work for me.
Hell at demos, I'll go and talk with the police, but not in the smart-arse way that many younger protesters trying to make a point do.
When is trust forbidden?
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 24, 2014, 04:05:30 PM
Also, I'm sure he meant elicit.
Yeah, good catch; been a long day for me.
Oddly being somewhat deaf, I tend to pispronounce some works, and illicit is one of those worms, I guess I end up making it sound more like elicit.
Quote from: mongers on April 24, 2014, 04:06:43 PM
Hell at demos, I'll go and talk with the police, but not in the smart-arse way that many younger protesters trying to make a point do.
:huh: What do you do, make small talk?
Quote from: garbon on April 24, 2014, 04:10:14 PM
When is trust forbidden?
When it's about something illicit :smarty:
Quote from: Jacob on April 23, 2014, 06:54:53 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 23, 2014, 05:41:59 PM
Actually the same for border crossing.
Oh god yes. Don't fuck around at border crossings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_3dDNPwJTU
:P
Quote from: derspiess on April 24, 2014, 04:25:34 PM
Quote from: mongers on April 24, 2014, 04:06:43 PM
Hell at demos, I'll go and talk with the police, but not in the smart-arse way that many younger protesters trying to make a point do.
:huh: What do you do, make small talk?
Sometimes yes, often it's a good way of finding out useful information.
Other occasion you hear some interesting stories; a while back I was visiting a protest site in Parliament square, before the legislation banne all gatherings there, I think it might have been called climate/protest camp or peace village?
And actually the most interesting conversation I had there, wasn't with the ragtag collection of protesters, though plenty of them were a varied and genuine lot, but it was with one of the government security guards there, who was a Portuguese national, he had a far more engaging personal story to tell and his political views about Europe were worth listening to.
Quote from: mongers on April 24, 2014, 03:42:21 PM
In all of my various encounters with coppers, be it late night in some city centre, at demo or with regard to motor vehicles, I've never had a single problem, though I guess there's always a first time.
I think being generally confident and friendly with people/officials one encounters helps to illicit trust and confidence on their part.
Same. I've never really had a bad experience.
But I'm white, British and middle class so my experience is probably different than it normally is.
I always feel like the police have improved a lot - the way they police Carnival, Pride and most demos always seems really good to me. But then whenever there's something serious it always seems to come out that the Met lied about their version of events. So I don't know.
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 24, 2014, 05:10:07 PM
Quote from: mongers on April 24, 2014, 03:42:21 PM
In all of my various encounters with coppers, be it late night in some city centre, at demo or with regard to motor vehicles, I've never had a single problem, though I guess there's always a first time.
I think being generally confident and friendly with people/officials one encounters helps to illicit trust and confidence on their part.
Same. I've never really had a bad experience.
But I'm white, British and middle class so my experience is probably different than it normally is.
I always feel like the police have improved a lot - the way they police Carnival, Pride and most demos always seems really good to me. But then whenever there's something serious it always seems to come out that the Met lied about their version of events. So I don't know.
Well yes now that I think about it, those are probably the most telling factors with me as well. :(
I never had trouble with cops here in Toronto, even as a long-haired, scruffy, pot-smoking teen whose hobby was hanging out late at night with gangs of buddies getting high.
Either the "being White" thing worked its magic, or "being generally polite and non-confrontational" did; or, alternatively, I was just lucky in the cops I encountered.
I haven't had any terrible experiences with cops, even the one who arrested me (DUII) was decent.
I was 17 and with an idiot friend (he was ~20) driving around downtown Portland; we had a 12 pack of beer and he made the dumbest illegal left turn in the history of dumb illegal left turns. The cops were on our ass in seconds and we got pulled over right in front of Pioneer Square (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_Courthouse_Square) on a summer Friday evening. The cop asks for our IDs; I hand him my Oregon Driver's License that clearly shows I turn 18 in ~3 months. He says to me that I am lucky that I am 18, or else he would have to call my parents and they would have to come get em released or something. That was weird, but I agreed with him. He then told me that it might be OK for an 18 year old to drink on Army Bases, but it was not OK here in Downtown Portland. I have no idea why he might have thought I was in the Army, but my hair was very, very short, almost shaved., but I gave him a very polite "Yes, Sir!" and he handed my ID back. He then made us pour all of our beer out on the side of the street, with hundreds of people milling/cruising/walking by. The whole thing was funny, even at the time.
I also got a jaywalking ticket in Arizona. We were drunk and were crossing a major street at a crosswalk. A really cute girl stuck her head out the window and asked how to get to some bar, so I stopped and gave her directions. By the time I was done I had to run to beat the green light and missed it by about half a second. Again, of course there was a cop there so he gave us jaywalking tickets. He was a bit of an ass, and I argued with him that I beat the light and wasn't jaywalking (and that the chick was hot and I HAD to stop), but he just gave me the ticket and sent me on my way. The court date was the day after I went out of town so I blew it off and eventually had my driving privileges revoked for jaywalking. :lol:
My driving habits seem to attract police attention more than usual so I have also had a number of interactions with the cops over minor moving violations. None of them turned out bad, but I have never had the cops ask to search my car so I never really had to refuse them something they wanted.
I never saw the need to fuck with people any more than was necessary at any given moment, but that was just me. Not everybody saw it that way, and yeah, there's the asshole aspect of the culture. I usually tried to make the average encounter as easy as possible, because my very presence was an escalation in situational tension, and I didn't--and still don't--believe in unnecessary escalation for the sake of escalation. That's not being proactive. That's not being productive. That results in unnecessary paperwork and ass beatdowns. But sometimes attitude beget attitude, and people look for unnecessary confrontations, and get themselves a ticket when 3 minutes earlier they would've just gotten a warning, or get a warrant check because of their hateful vibes and surprise! there's a child support warrant, or their mouths get themselves locked up when they don't follow instructions, like being told to leave the fucking house you don't fucking live in.
Now, there were known shitbags, and they were treated like the shitbags they were whenever we came across them, because that's what you did: jack them up so often and so hard, they stay off the streets or could get locked up, because that's what the old people and the parents of little children in those shitty neighborhoods deserved. But those were the regulars, and they were a usually small sample of everyday encounters.
Contrary to what all you little shits may believe, I really didn't fit in with the culture of fucking-with-people-just-to-fuck-with-them (bail bonds, now that was different), and I was overqualified anyway. Took me a couple years to figure out that Dad was right, as usual. :lol:
I'd lock up Ide on general principle, toss his ass in the back of the wagon hit every curb on the way to Central, though. Tasteless Movie Reviewing with Intent to Distribute.
I've never had problems with the police, even when I had in fact committed a crime. I was cuffed by never arrested. Calm polite explanations go along way I suppose. On the other hand, my brother always has problems with the police. I suspect the police didn't respond any better to his shrieking insults any better then I did.
Quote from: sbr on April 24, 2014, 06:39:37 PM
I haven't had any terrible experiences with cops, even the one who arrested me (DUII) was decent.
I was 17 and with an idiot friend (he was ~20) driving around downtown Portland; we had a 12 pack of beer and he made the dumbest illegal left turn in the history of dumb illegal left turns. The cops were on our ass in seconds and we got pulled over right in front of Pioneer Square (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_Courthouse_Square) on a summer Friday evening. The cop asks for our IDs; I hand him my Oregon Driver's License that clearly shows I turn 18 in ~3 months. He says to me that I am lucky that I am 18, or else he would have to call my parents and they would have to come get em released or something. That was weird, but I agreed with him. He then told me that it might be OK for an 18 year old to drink on Army Bases, but it was not OK here in Downtown Portland. I have no idea why he might have thought I was in the Army, but my hair was very, very short, almost shaved., but I gave him a very polite "Yes, Sir!" and he handed my ID back. He then made us pour all of our beer out on the side of the street, with hundreds of people milling/cruising/walking by. The whole thing was funny, even at the time.
:lol:
If that happened to you today it would go very differently. Life: ruined.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 24, 2014, 07:05:02 PM
I never saw the need to fuck with people any more than was necessary at any given moment, but that was just me. Not everybody saw it that way, and yeah, there's the asshole aspect of the culture. I usually tried to make the average encounter as easy as possible, because my very presence was an escalation in situational tension, and I didn't--and still don't--believe in unnecessary escalation for the sake of escalation. That's not being proactive. That's not being productive. That results in unnecessary paperwork and ass beatdowns. But sometimes attitude beget attitude, and people look for unnecessary confrontations, and get themselves a ticket when 3 minutes earlier they would've just gotten a warning, or get a warrant check because of their hateful vibes and surprise! there's a child support warrant, or their mouths get themselves locked up when they don't follow instructions, like being told to leave the fucking house you don't fucking live in.
Yeah, that's kinda how i see it from the outside, as well. Most cops are just trying to get through the day; they have always been reasonable with me. The cops that are trying to get their jollies by showing their contempt for "civilians" (which I always thought kinda funny, given that "civilian" is what I considered them when I was in the service) always were reasonable with me, because I didn't give them shit and they were looking to end their encounter with me and find someone who was going to give them the shitty attitude they were looking for.
I know that, for some people, being uncooperative with cops is a matter of pride. Given their histories, and the stories they have grown up with, that's probably as reasonable for them as being cooperative is for me. As you note, they get what they expect (and even hope for). Like asshole cops, asshole non-cops get vindication from being abused.
Quote from: grumbler on April 24, 2014, 07:28:31 PM
I know that, for some people, being uncooperative with cops is a matter of pride. Given their histories, and the stories they have grown up with, that's probably as reasonable for them as being cooperative is for me. As you note, they get what they expect (and even hope for). Like asshole cops, asshole non-cops get vindication from being abused.
Most of the time, it was the everyday, non-important bullshit that caused the most grief. And yeah, I could always understand how from somebody's point of view they think you're just fucking with them when they're "not doin' nuffin'" out in a convenience store parking lot, but the store management
doesn't want you hanging around not doin' nuffin'.
Can't begin to count how many loitering issues got blown up bigger than responding to domestic violence and bar fights. Christ, what an unnecessary pain in the ass exercise in bullshit. Getting my BP up just thinking about it. Fuck already.
Oppressor.
Anyway the gas stations in the bad parts of town seem to be getting good results out of blasting classical music as a means of preventing loitering. Always like hearing Vivaldi or Mozart when I stop in to get an energy drink or coke zero.
That's just to lull you into a false sense of relaxation so you don't realize how stupid you've been to buy into the "Drill Baby Drill We're Gonna Be Net Oil Exporters Yay Shale Oil" bullshit that will never affect the rising prices at the pump you will continue to pay the rest of your life.
Quote from: Malthus on April 24, 2014, 05:28:44 PM
I never had trouble with cops here in Toronto, even as a long-haired, scruffy, pot-smoking teen whose hobby was hanging out late at night with gangs of buddies getting high.
Either the "being White" thing worked its magic, or "being generally polite and non-confrontational" did; or, alternatively, I was just lucky in the cops I encountered.
Maybe you were just too stoned to notice the beatings and taserings.
The metropolitan police did try and fit up a mate of mine once. We were walking around Soho about 2 in the morning when we spotted a policeman's hat in the gutter, my mate went and picked it up, big mistake............we were swooped upon by half-a-dozen armed police. Luckily we had only finished work at midnight, so were sober, also my friend had some legal training which helped in the chat that followed. He pointed out that I hadn't even touched the hat and they had jumped us before we even had a chance to discuss our find, so they let me go and no arrest was made, useful if you want to travel to the USA on visa-waiver. However, they did arrest my friend and charged him with theft. He hired a barrister; we had to miss a day's work chatting to him, then another shift for the trial. I was a witness so missed most of the 20-minute trial. The boss of the cops was in the anteroom where I waited for my turn on the stage, an inspector or some such, he remarked "well this is a damned tuppeny-hapenny affair!". I had to agree.
The magistrate found not guilty of course and awarded £50 costs against the cops (the real costs were much higher of course). He then gave a pompous little speech and advised us not to wander about town in the small hours :lol:
I like to think the commanding officer of the cops gave them a bollocking for this; armed cops were very rare in those days, they were supposed to be doing something much more important with their time; but doubt that any action was taken.
Quote from: dps on April 25, 2014, 01:38:33 AM
Quote from: Malthus on April 24, 2014, 05:28:44 PM
I never had trouble with cops here in Toronto, even as a long-haired, scruffy, pot-smoking teen whose hobby was hanging out late at night with gangs of buddies getting high.
Either the "being White" thing worked its magic, or "being generally polite and non-confrontational" did; or, alternatively, I was just lucky in the cops I encountered.
Maybe you were just too stoned to notice the beatings and taserings.
Malthus' adolescence predates the Tom Swift electric rifle. Possibly also Tom Swift.
Quote from: dps on April 25, 2014, 01:38:33 AM
Quote from: Malthus on April 24, 2014, 05:28:44 PM
I never had trouble with cops here in Toronto, even as a long-haired, scruffy, pot-smoking teen whose hobby was hanging out late at night with gangs of buddies getting high.
Either the "being White" thing worked its magic, or "being generally polite and non-confrontational" did; or, alternatively, I was just lucky in the cops I encountered.
Maybe you were just too stoned to notice the beatings and taserings.
The stuff we got wasn't that good. :P
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on April 25, 2014, 02:12:55 AM
The metropolitan police did try and fit up a mate of mine once. We were walking around Soho about 2 in the morning when we spotted a policeman's hat in the gutter, my mate went and picked it up, big mistake............we were swooped upon by half-a-dozen armed police. Luckily we had only finished work at midnight, so were sober, also my friend had some legal training which helped in the chat that followed. He pointed out that I hadn't even touched the hat and they had jumped us before we even had a chance to discuss our find, so they let me go and no arrest was made, useful if you want to travel to the USA on visa-waiver. However, they did arrest my friend and charged him with theft. He hired a barrister; we had to miss a day's work chatting to him, then another shift for the trial. I was a witness so missed most of the 20-minute trial. The boss of the cops was in the anteroom where I waited for my turn on the stage, an inspector or some such, he remarked "well this is a damned tuppeny-hapenny affair!". I had to agree.
The magistrate found not guilty of course and awarded £50 costs against the cops (the real costs were much higher of course). He then gave a pompous little speech and advised us not to wander about town in the small hours :lol:
I like to think the commanding officer of the cops gave them a bollocking for this; armed cops were very rare in those days, they were supposed to be doing something much more important with their time; but doubt that any action was taken.
Something like that happened to a buddy of mine - he was waiting in the subway to meet some buddies (including me), when he spotted a telephone receiver ripped from its cord lying on the ground. He picked it up, thinking to make it a conversation piece - only to be pounced on immediately by a cop who had obviously staked out the fallen receiver and was just waiting for some idiot to come along and pick it up. Cop threatened to charge him with a long list of crimes, vandalism, theft, etc.; the cop searched him and found he was carrying a very expensive dope pipe and some hash on him, which of course was the nucleus of a whole list of other charges ... but after reducing buddy to a scared puddle, he decided to let him go - confiscating the pipe and the hash, which went into the cop's pocket. :lol:
Your friend was robbed by a man under the color of lawful authority! :lol: :lol:
Quote from: Ideologue on April 25, 2014, 01:09:09 PM
Your friend was robbed by a man under the color of lawful authority! :lol: :lol:
I guess he could have gone to the cops and made a complaint, demanding his pipe and hash back. :) What could go wrong? :hmm:
You have a pretty black sense of humor is all. :P
Quote from: Ideologue on April 25, 2014, 01:17:23 PM
You have a pretty black sense of humor is all. :P
As I recall at the time, he was plenty pissed about being robbed, but we were not exactly sympathetic - he got lots of ribbing for doing stupid shit to get noticed while he was carrying dope. ;)
Quote from: Ideologue on April 25, 2014, 01:09:09 PM
Your friend was robbed by a man under the color of lawful authority! :lol: :lol:
I've heard about this happening to people pretty regularly since Vt. decriminalized possession under 2 oz. and s.mall amounts don't have much evidentiary value anymore. So if they find it in the car in an alcohol DUI case, they just take it for themselves rather than write up a ticket for it.
Cops have been diverting contraband since forever. Hell, the SF police were recently found running a big cocaine dealing operation out of the evidence room.
Indeed. It's not very funny though. :(
My Dad had a closet full of seized booze. Or so I was told.
"What is it about my forbidden closet of mystery???!"
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on April 25, 2014, 02:12:55 AM
The metropolitan police did try and fit up a mate of mine once. We were walking around Soho about 2 in the morning when we spotted a policeman's hat in the gutter, my mate went and picked it up, big mistake............we were swooped upon by half-a-dozen armed police. Luckily we had only finished work at midnight, so were sober, also my friend had some legal training which helped in the chat that followed. He pointed out that I hadn't even touched the hat and they had jumped us before we even had a chance to discuss our find, so they let me go and no arrest was made, useful if you want to travel to the USA on visa-waiver. However, they did arrest my friend and charged him with theft. He hired a barrister; we had to miss a day's work chatting to him, then another shift for the trial. I was a witness so missed most of the 20-minute trial. The boss of the cops was in the anteroom where I waited for my turn on the stage, an inspector or some such, he remarked "well this is a damned tuppeny-hapenny affair!". I had to agree.
The magistrate found not guilty of course and awarded £50 costs against the cops (the real costs were much higher of course). He then gave a pompous little speech and advised us not to wander about town in the small hours :lol:
I like to think the commanding officer of the cops gave them a bollocking for this; armed cops were very rare in those days, they were supposed to be doing something much more important with their time; but doubt that any action was taken.
Malthus story at least makes sense because it was a set up by a corrupt cop to rob people.
What was the point of all this? Surely if they need to make an arrest qouta the police can arrange entrapment of someone on a much higher charge. Setting up the "theft" of a policeman's hat seems like a complete waste of time.
It was utterly senseless Tim.
I suppose they got some office time preparing their "case" and then had a morning in court instead of doing some actual policing, maybe they were idle bastards :lol:
It was in Soho too; if they needed to make arrests then there were any number of "drunk and disorderly" folk about and, of course, things far worse than that just under the surface :hmm: