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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Syt on March 16, 2014, 03:26:00 PM

Title: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Syt on March 16, 2014, 03:26:00 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26604044

QuoteVenice votes in referendum on splitting from Rome

Voting has begin in Venice and the surrounding region on whether to break away from Italy.

Recent opinion polls suggest that two thirds of the four million electorate favour splitting from Rome, but the vote will not be legally binding.

The poll was organised by local activists and parties, who want a future state called Republic of Veneto.

This would be reminiscent of the sovereign Venetian republic that existed for more than 1,000 years.

A focal point for culture, architecture and trade, Venice lost its independence to Napoleon in 1797.

Online voting is due to continue until Friday.

The vote received very little coverage in Italy's national media but the organisers said they expected as many as two million people to take part.

The BBC's Alan Johnston in Rome says the vote reflects a growing separatist mood in parts of Europe, such as Spain's Catalonia region and Scotland, which votes on whether to become independent in September.

Moves towards independence often evoke more sympathy in wealthy northern Italy, where many resent what they see as the poorer south's waste and corruption.

Luca Zaia, governor of Veneto, the Venice region, rejected suggestions that the Italian constitution would prevent secession.

International law, he told Il Quotidiano, allowed "the right to self-determination"
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: The Brain on March 16, 2014, 03:27:25 PM
Makes sense that the governor of Venice lives on the second floor.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Maladict on March 16, 2014, 03:49:37 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 16, 2014, 03:26:00 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26604044

Quote
This would be reminiscent of the sovereign Venetian republic that existed for more than 1,000 years.

No, it would be reminiscent of a crypto-fascist state.
It's not 1848 anymore.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Neil on March 16, 2014, 04:02:09 PM
Balkanization is the new normal.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Pedrito on March 16, 2014, 05:54:51 PM
...now I understand why some friends today posted "I voted" on their Facebook.

The media coverage of this fake vote is so inexistent that I buy every day a local newspaper, and it never happened to speak about it.

This doesn't mean that I do not approve a secession from Italy.  :sleep:

L.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 16, 2014, 06:07:41 PM
What's the position of the Lega Nord on this matter?
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Valmy on March 16, 2014, 08:31:21 PM
Oh for Godsake.  Europe really aims to be as useless a place as possible.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Valmy on March 16, 2014, 08:38:25 PM
Quote from: Pedrito on March 16, 2014, 05:54:51 PM
This doesn't mean that I do not approve a secession from Italy.  :sleep:

You make zombie Garibaldi cry.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Lettow77 on March 16, 2014, 08:46:33 PM
I've been following this for quite some time. Venetian independence is of course highly desirable.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Habbaku on March 16, 2014, 08:52:36 PM
 :)
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 16, 2014, 08:53:51 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 16, 2014, 08:31:21 PM
Oh for Godsake.  Europe really aims to be as useless a place as possible.

It's Italy, dude.  They've been at this nonsense since before Machiavelli.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Ed Anger on March 16, 2014, 08:57:49 PM
This makes me twirl my hands rapidly.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: alfred russel on March 16, 2014, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: Lettow77 on March 16, 2014, 08:46:33 PM
I've been following this for quite some time. Venetian independence is of course highly desirable.

I remember you speaking of the potential for a space Venice.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Jacob on March 16, 2014, 09:36:27 PM
I'm not worried until Russian troops show up.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Ed Anger on March 16, 2014, 09:38:50 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on March 16, 2014, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: Lettow77 on March 16, 2014, 08:46:33 PM
I've been following this for quite some time. Venetian independence is of course highly desirable.

I remember you speaking of the potential for a space Venice.

Space French served by nigger robots in a generational spaceship.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Viking on March 16, 2014, 09:47:44 PM
Seriously, we already have the Republic of Maldives which will soon be under water, do we really need a second (or third?) Atlantis?
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Lettow77 on March 16, 2014, 10:13:22 PM
Venice has the economic capacity to pay for infrastructure to forestall its doom; its need to pay for southern italy is an intereference in doing so
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Syt on March 17, 2014, 01:36:38 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on March 16, 2014, 05:54:51 PM
...now I understand why some friends today posted "I voted" on their Facebook.

The media coverage of this fake vote is so inexistent that I buy every day a local newspaper, and it never happened to speak about it.

This doesn't mean that I do not approve a secession from Italy.  :sleep:

L.

The pretty non-existing coverage has driven some users to comment that there must be an EU-ordered media blackout about the whole affair.  :lol:
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Pedrito on March 17, 2014, 03:26:42 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 16, 2014, 06:07:41 PM
What's the position of the Lega Nord on this matter?
I don't know, because the national (and local) resonance of this referendum, as said, is nil.
I suppose that regional and national LN representatives, like Veneto's governor Zaia, who's cited in the OP, can only approve of it, at least in an unofficial way.
But Lega Nord's stances about some form of fiscal federalism inside a unitary state can largely be agreed upon, at least from a Northerner point of view.
In the last 50 years the drain of resources from Northern to Southern Italy has become a matter of billions of euros every year, and while this could be understood in times of relative economic growth, it becomes impossible to justify when decline kicks in.

L.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Josquius on March 17, 2014, 04:37:06 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 17, 2014, 01:36:38 AM


The pretty non-existing coverage has driven some users to comment that there must be an EU-ordered media blackout about the whole affair.  :lol:
Haha.
The news isn't reporting a random internet poll?
Yes. That's the reason. Yes.



This is news to me. I guess it might kick up a real movement for such a referendum in reality? Hope Italy lets it go ahead. As dumb an idea as it would be if it went ahead, proper 21st century democracies at least let their people have the choice.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 17, 2014, 04:56:34 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 17, 2014, 01:36:38 AM
Quote from: Pedrito on March 16, 2014, 05:54:51 PM
...now I understand why some friends today posted "I voted" on their Facebook.

The media coverage of this fake vote is so inexistent that I buy every day a local newspaper, and it never happened to speak about it.

This doesn't mean that I do not approve a secession from Italy.  :sleep:

L.

The pretty non-existing coverage has driven some users to comment that there must be an EU-ordered media blackout about the whole affair.  :lol:

These Austrians need to be reminded that being called an Austrian in Italy is still an insult, and that's the favourite used by southern Italians for Padanians ;).
But then, balkanisation of Italy means Südtirol back in Austria...
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: celedhring on March 17, 2014, 05:04:55 AM
My Milanese uncle - and north Italian nationalist - very proudly claims to be "Austrian".
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 17, 2014, 05:10:40 AM
Quote from: celedhring on March 17, 2014, 05:04:55 AM
My Milanese uncle - and north Italian nationalist - very proudly claims to be "Austrian".

Traditore!
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: celedhring on March 17, 2014, 05:13:12 AM
My family are Catalan nationalists, and the Italian branch are Padanian nationalists. The main conversation topic during past Christmas' dinner: "Whose south is worst? Italy's or Spain's?"  :lol:
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Josquius on March 17, 2014, 05:32:02 AM
Quote from: celedhring on March 17, 2014, 05:13:12 AM
My family are Catalan nationalists, and the Italian branch are Padanian nationalists. The main conversation topic during past Christmas' dinner: "Whose south is worst? Italy's or Spain's?"  :lol:
Italy.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 17, 2014, 05:39:12 AM
Quote from: Tyr on March 17, 2014, 04:37:06 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 17, 2014, 01:36:38 AM


The pretty non-existing coverage has driven some users to comment that there must be an EU-ordered media blackout about the whole affair.  :lol:
Haha.
The news isn't reporting a random internet poll?
Yes. That's the reason. Yes.



This is news to me. I guess it might kick up a real movement for such a referendum in reality? Hope Italy lets it go ahead. As dumb an idea as it would be if it went ahead, proper 21st century democracies at least let their people have the choice.
Separatists should be crushed with Fire and Blood!  :mad:
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Ed Anger on March 17, 2014, 06:14:30 AM
Calm down Spaz.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Archy on March 17, 2014, 06:15:14 AM
I expected a spoof on the Crimea Referendum by the Onion I'm displeased  :mad:
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: citizen k on April 03, 2014, 02:22:04 PM
http://www.smh.com.au/world/tank-warfare-in-venice-plan-gets-24-arrested-for-plotting-secession-from-italy-20140403-zqpwz.html (http://www.smh.com.au/world/tank-warfare-in-venice-plan-gets-24-arrested-for-plotting-secession-from-italy-20140403-zqpwz.html)

Quote
Tank warfare in Venice plan gets 24 arrested for plotting secession from Italy

Published: April 3, 2014 - 5:26AM

Rome: Italian police arrested two dozen separatists including a former parliamentarian on Wednesday on suspicion of gathering arms to violently split the wealthy northern region of Veneto from the rest of Italy.

The group had converted a bulldozer into a tank with a makeshift cannon and intended to use it in an assault on St Mark's Square in the region's capital Venice, police said.

Their plan recalled the 1997 seizure of the square's famed bell tower by armed separatists who proclaimed an independent Venetian republic, harking back to the city-state that was a major power in the eastern Mediterranean for centuries until it fell to Napoleon Bonaparte in 1797.

That assault was quashed in a matter of hours.

After searching premises in several regions of Italy, police arrested 24 people on suspicion of terrorism, subversion of the democratic order and making and possessing weapons of war. Twenty-seven others are under investigation, police said.

Those arrested included Franco Rocchetta, a former lawmaker and campaigner for Venetian independence who helped organise an self-styled "referendum" that caught attention abroad last month because it took place during the Russian annexation of Crimea.

The "referendum" was an online poll that said 89 percent of respondents voted for Veneto to break away from Italy.

Wednesday's arrests coincided with a vote in parliament to move to decriminalise clandestine immigration, enraging the Northern League which had backed the law that made it a criminal offence punishable by detention and fines in 2009.

The Northern League, which has long campaigned for the autonomy of Italy's rich northern regions, said it would rally in the northern city of Verona on Sunday to protest against the arrests and the softening of the immigration law.

Mr Rocchetta was a founding member of the League, which has 4 percent of the seats in parliament, but has since left it.

"We call on the Venetians and all those who can no longer bear the intolerable oppression of the central state to fly the flag of St Mark from their homes to show their solidarity with the Venetians and Lombards who have been unjustly imprisoned," Northern League Senate leader Massimo Bitonci said.

"A state that cancels the crime of clandestine immigration ... can only bring ridicule by imprisoning those ... who are fighting for the freedom of their people," he said.

Reuters

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.smh.com.au%2F2014%2F04%2F03%2F5318024%2F1396463176276.jpg-620x349.jpg&hash=08eb913810f65e8c779ed1c7f480518b350de8f0)


Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: derspiess on April 03, 2014, 02:25:27 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 17, 2014, 06:14:30 AM
Calm down Spaz.

No shit.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: derspiess on April 03, 2014, 02:30:41 PM
Quote from: citizen k on April 03, 2014, 02:22:04 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.smh.com.au%2F2014%2F04%2F03%2F5318024%2F1396463176276.jpg-620x349.jpg&hash=08eb913810f65e8c779ed1c7f480518b350de8f0)

Still looks better than most of what they fielded in WWII.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: mongers on April 03, 2014, 02:31:25 PM
Quote from: citizen k on April 03, 2014, 02:22:04 PM
http://www.smh.com.au/world/tank-warfare-in-venice-plan-gets-24-arrested-for-plotting-secession-from-italy-20140403-zqpwz.html (http://www.smh.com.au/world/tank-warfare-in-venice-plan-gets-24-arrested-for-plotting-secession-from-italy-20140403-zqpwz.html)

Quote
Tank warfare in Venice plan gets 24 arrested for plotting secession from Italy

Published: April 3, 2014 - 5:26AM

Rome: Italian police arrested two dozen separatists including a former parliamentarian on Wednesday on suspicion of gathering arms to violently split the wealthy northern region of Veneto from the rest of Italy.


That's what come from playing too much Europa Universalis.  <_<
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Savonarola on April 03, 2014, 02:45:45 PM
Quote from: citizen k on April 03, 2014, 02:22:04 PM

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.smh.com.au%2F2014%2F04%2F03%2F5318024%2F1396463176276.jpg-620x349.jpg&hash=08eb913810f65e8c779ed1c7f480518b350de8f0)


I think the A-Team built the very same vehicle that one episode where they got locked in the tool shed.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: PDH on April 03, 2014, 04:22:37 PM
Looks like that dozer the guy in Colorado covered in armor plate and used to go on a rampage through town.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: celedhring on April 03, 2014, 04:44:53 PM
I just want to know which road this thing was supposed to use to reach Piazza San Marcos. Unless it was an amphibious invasion.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 04, 2014, 06:08:21 AM
playing too much world of tanks I think.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Pedrito on April 04, 2014, 07:28:10 AM
These guys live 15 kms from my home  :lol:

L.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Queequeg on April 04, 2014, 12:44:20 PM
I'm actually vaguely sympathetic with this, Italian linguistic and cultural policies suck, and it is probably really annoying that a lot of Lombard or Venetian money goes towards gene pool a warping level contaminated landfills in the south.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: alfred russel on April 04, 2014, 01:07:57 PM
Quote from: celedhring on April 03, 2014, 04:44:53 PM
I just want to know which road this thing was supposed to use to reach Piazza San Marcos. Unless it was an amphibious invasion.

Good point...they can't succeed....oh wait, never mind. Breaking news on CNN; the Italian military just surrendered.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Valmy on April 04, 2014, 01:16:19 PM
You must be mistaken.  The Italian Military has always preferred death to surrender.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Razgovory on April 04, 2014, 01:27:40 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on April 04, 2014, 12:44:20 PM
I'm actually vaguely sympathetic with this, Italian linguistic and cultural policies suck, and it is probably really annoying that a lot of Lombard or Venetian money goes towards gene pool a warping level contaminated landfills in the south.

What are you on about?
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Valmy on April 04, 2014, 01:38:23 PM
From what I could understand they take all the money in Venice and take it down to Bari and dig a big hole, dump waste from genetic testing labs in it, and then pour all of Venice's money on top of it and fill up the hole.
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Habbaku on April 04, 2014, 02:07:34 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on April 04, 2014, 12:44:20 PM
Venetian money goes towards gene pool a warping level contaminated landfills in the south.

:hmm:
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: The Brain on April 04, 2014, 02:09:40 PM
Bmo!! :w00t:
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Queequeg on April 04, 2014, 02:18:51 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/10455034/Thousands-turn-out-in-Naples-to-protest-over-mafia-pollution.html
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Valmy on April 04, 2014, 02:21:40 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on April 04, 2014, 02:18:51 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/10455034/Thousands-turn-out-in-Naples-to-protest-over-mafia-pollution.html

Ok.  What does that have to do with Venetian Tax money?
Title: Re: Venice Independence Referendum
Post by: Habbaku on April 04, 2014, 02:23:19 PM
Or "gene pool a warping level," for that matter.