The man whose kicking was so dominant, they invented a statistic purely to measure him.
http://www.southernmiss.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/020114aaa.html
Punter, ewwww.
Punters are people too.
Whatever happened to that Aussie rules punter some team signed? Is he still playing?
Ray Guy wasn't just a punter, he was a game strategy.
Looked like a basset hound, but one hell of a punter on some bad ass Raider teams.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 01, 2014, 10:34:07 PM
Whatever happened to that Aussie rules punter some team signed? Is he still playing?
I'm guessing you mean Darren Bennett who played with Bolts and Vikings.
Ray Guy was more than just a punter. He was an athlete who was also the 3rd string QB. His punting changed how teams played, and he definitely deserves to be in the HoF.
Too bad the Raiders sold their souls and moved south. Even if they returned to No There-There, it will be at least 13 years after the death of Al Davis before I can cheer for them again.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 01, 2014, 10:34:07 PM
Whatever happened to that Aussie rules punter some team signed? Is he still playing?
Sav Rocca? He was somewhere this year. I want to say... the Redskins?
Well deserved and long overdue. I'm quite happy with the choice to finally acknowledge his play and position. Now to get Timmy Brown in...
Reed getting cleared should open the way for Brown next year. Unless any new shoo-ins come eligible next year.
I think it is bullshit.
If in his best year he punted 70 times in a year, and was 5 yards better than the median starting punter (he wasn't), that still only gets the team an extra 350 yards over an average performer in the season. Is that a hall of fame contribution?
There is a reason that punters aren't drafted very often, and when they are it isn't very high. The position doesn't lend itself to stand out performances. Ray Guy to the Hall of Fame wouldn't be thinkable if he didn't play in his prime for one of the best teams in football that was on TV all the time (in an era that you watched the game the networks gave you). He actually only led the league in punting 3 times.
But hey...it makes sense in the new NFL I guess. Tight ends line up as wide receivers, running backs are devalued to the point that it might be stupid to ever take one with a top 15 pick, and punters get in the hall of fame. Why not.
Okay serious response. About fucking time Ray Guy gets in.
BA, do Issac Bruce and T.O. deserve to be in HoF?
Cause seems to me they have pretty similar career numbers in receptions and TD's to TB
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on February 02, 2014, 03:25:50 AM
Well deserved and long overdue. I'm quite happy with the choice to finally acknowledge his play and position.
Yeah, punting is awesome. I want to go to Canton to remember all the great memories of the punters I've seen. I'll tell my kids story after story about how we went to games hoping for 3 and outs to see the great punters come on the field and wow us all with their punting.
I have an idea for the NFL. Rather than running or passing on downs 1 through 3 and punting on down 4, why don't we punt on downs 1 through 3 and run or pass on down 4?
It will probably improve safety and will fit in nicely with all the other changes they are bringing in.
Quote from: katmai on February 02, 2014, 03:39:42 AM
Okay serious response. About fucking time Ray Guy gets in.
BA, do Issac Bruce and T.O. deserve to be in HoF?
Cause seems to me they have pretty similar career numbers in receptions and TD's to TB
If you compare the statistical impact of Isaac Bruce, TO, or Tim Brown to Ray Guy - as measured of their performance against a median performer at their position - there is no way Ray Guy should be in over any of those three.
Lots of middling qbs make bigger contributions than all-star linemen by that type of analysis. It's bunk.
Quote from: katmai on February 02, 2014, 03:39:42 AM
Okay serious response. About fucking time Ray Guy gets in.
BA, do Issac Bruce and T.O. deserve to be in HoF?
Cause seems to me they have pretty similar career numbers in receptions and TD's to TB
I would say quite possibly to both. They were dominant in their primes and quite impressive throughout their careers as a whole.
I really don't think AR understands punting. AR, you do realize there is a lot more to it than solely net yardage on punts, right? Pinning teams inside the 20 or closer, leaving lots of hangtime to ensure your coverage team smothers any chance of a return, making your kicks incredibly difficult to field to increase the potential for turnovers, and more. Would you say Carson Palmer was the 8th best QB this past season because he had the 8th most yards? It's an incredibly narrow way to look at any position, and I would have expected more from you.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 02, 2014, 04:31:47 AM
Lots of middling qbs make bigger contributions than all-star linemen by that type of analysis. It's bunk.
A true middling QB makes 0 contribution by that type of analysis.
In the NFL Hall of Fame, QBs are disproportionately represented over linemen. Check out the draft if you are interested in the value the league puts on linemen vs. punters.
But maybe I came on a bit strong last night. I don't think punters should be included, but I don't really care that much. He can take his rightful place in the Hall along with Fireman Ed.
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on February 02, 2014, 04:47:34 AM
I really don't think AR understands punting. AR, you do realize there is a lot more to it than solely net yardage on punts, right? Pinning teams inside the 20 or closer, leaving lots of hangtime to ensure your coverage team smothers any chance of a return, making your kicks incredibly difficult to field to increase the potential for turnovers, and more. Would you say Carson Palmer was the 8th best QB this past season because he had the 8th most yards? It's an incredibly narrow way to look at any position, and I would have expected more from you.
I'm not old enough to have seen Ray Guy's career. I looked up numbers on pro football reference and wikipedia. Pro football reference only had gross punting yards, wikipedia said his net was 33.8.
33.8 yards net doesn't seem extraordinary. Ray Guy averaged 42.4 yards gross, I'm guessing the league average was 2 or 3 yards less, so if his hangtime was really so remarkably effective it didn't seem to be showing up in the net punting numbers. But I couldn't find the net punting stats for the rest of the league, so I don't know. Maybe net punting averages were around 25 yards back then, though I sort of doubt it.
Regardless of how great a punter he was, I doubt he would be in the Hall of Fame if 1) he didn't play on a super prominent team, and 2) he didn't get the college punting award named after him (which could have been related to 1). But then that is probably just the nature of the beast with hall of fame voting.