http://news.yahoo.com/california-grants-law-license-immigrant-184611205.html
QuoteThe California Supreme Court granted a law license on Thursday to a man living in the United States illegally who graduated from law school and passed the state bar exam.
The decision means Sergio Garcia can begin practicing law despite his immigration status.
Garcia had challenged a 1996 federal law that bars people living in the country illegally from receiving professional licenses from government agencies or with the use of public funds, unless state lawmakers vote otherwise.
Shortly after the court heard arguments in the case, California Gov. Jerry Brown signed a state law that authorized the granting of the license. The new law went into effect Jan. 1.
Garcia arrived in the U.S. illegally 20 years ago to pick almonds with his father and worked at a grocery store and in the fields while attending school.
The case has pitted the Obama administration, which opposes licensing Garcia, against state officials who have supported him.
The Obama position in the case came as a surprise to some, since it adopted a program that shields people who were brought to the U.S. as children, graduated from high school and have kept a clean criminal record from deportation and allows them to legally work in the country.
At a hearing in September a majority of the state Supreme Court justices appeared reluctant to grant Garcia the license, saying the law prohibits them from doing so unless the Legislature acts.
The court is in charge of licensing attorneys in California.
Lawyers for the federal government argued that Garcia was barred from receiving his license because the court's budget is funded by public money.
But Garcia said his case is about showing other immigrants that hard work and dedication mean something in the U.S.
Garcia, 36, worked in the fields and at a grocery store before attending community college. He became a paralegal, went to law school and passed the bar on his first try. He applied for citizenship in 1994, and is still working toward that goal.
His effort has been supported by State Bar officials and California's attorney general, who argued that citizenship status is not a requirement to receive a California law license.
A lawyer who is a criminal? :o
I know nothing about any of this, but my uninformed position is that if he was able to pass the test/ fulfill the requirements for the licence he should get the license.
I also feel that state motor vehicle departments should not be in the immigration/citizenship business. If you prove you can drive you should get the licence.
I am a little confused/concerned how an illegal immigrant can make his way al the way though to finishing law school; I would prefer to see that fixed and state licencing bureaus focus on giving out licences to those who have shown they are capable of doing what is required for the licences.
I find it bizarre why you would license someone to be able to work aw a lawyer when that person has no legal right to work in that country.
I just double-checked - sure enough the form to become a lawyer in Alberta does have a check box for 'I am a Canadian citizen or permanent resident'.
Of course for that matter you also have to prove that you have legal residence in Canada before getting a drivers license.
America is doomed. ANOTHER FUCKING LAWYER.
Quote from: Barrister on January 02, 2014, 02:36:20 PM
I find it bizarre why you would license someone to be able to work aw a lawyer when that person has no legal right to work in that country.
This.
Also, what's with the quotation marks around "illegal?"
I would have assumed that the law school would have asked the same question on their app, BB, and further that if he had answered truthfully there he probably would not have been admitted. :hmm:
Quote from: Caliga on January 02, 2014, 02:39:30 PM
I would have assumed that the law school would have asked the same question on their app, BB, and further that if he had answered truthfully there he probably would not have been admitted. :hmm:
Doubt it very much. Universities accept foreign students all the time. There's a whole visa category for student visas - but those people are very clearly told they have to right to work in the country.
It's one of the oldest "illegal immigrant" stories of all - student comes to the US to go to university, graduates, their visa expires, and they stay in the country illegally.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 02, 2014, 02:39:02 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 02, 2014, 02:36:20 PM
I find it bizarre why you would license someone to be able to work aw a lawyer when that person has no legal right to work in that country.
This.
Also, what's with the quotation marks around "illegal?"
They hadn't had illegal in the original article headline. And then educated liberal that I am, I always feel a bit guilty calling someone illegal when it is their residency that is illegal. -_-
Quote from: Barrister on January 02, 2014, 02:43:44 PM
Doubt it very much. Universities accept foreign students all the time. There's a whole visa category for student visas - but those people are very clearly told they have to right to work in the country.
It's one of the oldest "illegal immigrant" stories of all - student comes to the US to go to university, graduates, their visa expires, and they stay in the country illegally.
Yeah, but this dude came here to pick fruit, not to go to college. I know that people stay behind after their visa expires, but he never had one in the first place, which was my point.
Quote from: Caliga on January 02, 2014, 02:46:43 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 02, 2014, 02:43:44 PM
Doubt it very much. Universities accept foreign students all the time. There's a whole visa category for student visas - but those people are very clearly told they have to right to work in the country.
It's one of the oldest "illegal immigrant" stories of all - student comes to the US to go to university, graduates, their visa expires, and they stay in the country illegally.
Yeah, but this dude came here to pick fruit, not to go to college. I know that people stay behind after their visa expires, but he never had one in the first place, which was my point.
I was just pointing out why I doubt whether a university would ask for proof of citizenship.
Hmm, well I haven't applied to college in going on 20 years, but I swear I was asked that very question on my college application.
Quote from: Caliga on January 02, 2014, 02:46:43 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 02, 2014, 02:43:44 PM
Doubt it very much. Universities accept foreign students all the time. There's a whole visa category for student visas - but those people are very clearly told they have to right to work in the country.
It's one of the oldest "illegal immigrant" stories of all - student comes to the US to go to university, graduates, their visa expires, and they stay in the country illegally.
Yeah, but this dude came here to pick fruit, not to go to college. I know that people stay behind after their visa expires, but he never had one in the first place, which was my point.
I believe California allows illegal immigrants to graduate from state universities.
Quote from: sbr on January 02, 2014, 02:23:36 PM
I know nothing about any of this, but my uninformed position is that if he was able to pass the test/ fulfill the requirements for the licence he should get the license.
I also feel that state motor vehicle departments should not be in the immigration/citizenship business. If you prove you can drive you should get the licence.
I can understand that sort of - but then at the same time, you are granting privileges that really should be reserved for citizens/legal immigrants.
Quote from: garbon on January 02, 2014, 02:49:21 PM
I believe California allows illegal immigrants to graduate from state universities.
:wacko: If it was any other state, I wouldn't believe you. :sleep:
Quote from: Caliga on January 02, 2014, 02:51:28 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 02, 2014, 02:49:21 PM
I believe California allows illegal immigrants to graduate from state universities.
:wacko: If it was any other state, I wouldn't believe you. :sleep:
http://www.nilc.org/basic-facts-instate.html
QuoteFifteen states have laws permitting certain undocumented students who have attended and graduated from their primary and secondary schools to pay the same tuition as their classmates at public institutions of higher education. The states are California, Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, Kansas, Maryland, Minnesota, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, Oklahoma, Oregon, Texas, Utah, and Washington. In addition, Rhode Island's Board of Governors for Higher Education voted unanimously to provide access to in-state tuition at the state's public colleges and universities to certain students, regardless of their immigration status. This year, the University of Hawaii's Board of Regents adopted a similar policy.
@garbon - I don't think making driving a privilege for legals is always worth the hassle.
Also what is an illegal with a law license goona do if he can't legally be hired or open his own business?
Quote from: garbon on January 02, 2014, 02:53:09 PM
http://www.nilc.org/basic-facts-instate.html
QuoteFifteen states have laws permitting certain undocumented students who have attended and graduated from their primary and secondary schools to pay the same tuition as their classmates at public institutions of higher education. The states are California, Colorado, Connecticut, Illinois, Kansas, Maryland, Minnesota, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, Oklahoma, Oregon, Texas, Utah, and Washington. In addition, Rhode Island's Board of Governors for Higher Education voted unanimously to provide access to in-state tuition at the state's public colleges and universities to certain students, regardless of their immigration status. This year, the University of Hawaii's Board of Regents adopted a similar policy.
Interesting. :hmm:
Quote from: sbr on January 02, 2014, 02:55:08 PM
@garbon - I don't think making driving a privilege for legals is always worth the hassle.
Is it much of a hassle to prove citizenship? Or are you talking about the hassle of having illegal immigrants driving without being licensed?
In this day I don't think it would be very hard to get fake/forged documents and I don't think the local yahoo employee at the dmv should be the ones making those decisions. I guess it is important that I also don't think drivers license should be the main form of id; I would prefer a state issued id that proves citizenship issued by someone better equipped to make those decisions and a driver's license nothing more than a license to operate a vehicle.
Quote from: sbr on January 02, 2014, 03:10:36 PM
In this day I don't think it would be very hard to get fake/forged documents and I don't think the local yahoo employee at the dmv should be the ones making those decisions. I guess it is important that I also don't think drivers license should be the main form of id; I would prefer a state issued id that proves citizenship issued by someone better equipped to make those decisions and a driver's license nothing more than a license to operate a vehicle.
I dunno - in this day and age official documents are getting harder and harder to forge.
Quote from: Caliga on January 02, 2014, 02:39:30 PM
I would have assumed that the law school would have asked the same question on their app, BB, and further that if he had answered truthfully there he probably would not have been admitted. :hmm:
:lmfao:
Americans who cannot drive (say for medical reasons) cannot get ID? :yeahright:
Quote from: sbr on January 02, 2014, 03:10:36 PM
In this day I don't think it would be very hard to get fake/forged documents and I don't think the local yahoo employee at the dmv should be the ones making those decisions. I guess it is important that I also don't think drivers license should be the main form of id; I would prefer a state issued id that proves citizenship issued by someone better equipped to make those decisions and a driver's license nothing more than a license to operate a vehicle.
Same as what BB said. As to the other bit - well that's quite a different world from the one that we live in, given that state issued IDs follow the same process as driver's licenses. :P
Quote from: The Brain on January 02, 2014, 03:43:59 PM
Americans who cannot drive (say for medical reasons) cannot get ID? :yeahright:
No, but the DMV does issue the State ID cards that substitute.
Quote from: The Brain on January 02, 2014, 03:43:59 PM
Americans who cannot drive (say for medical reasons) cannot get ID? :yeahright:
They can. They go to the dmv and follow same process as getting a license (minus written/onroad driving test).
Quote from: The Brain on January 02, 2014, 03:43:59 PM
Americans who cannot drive (say for medical reasons) cannot get ID? :yeahright:
If you cannot drive, you are an untermensch. :)
America = Third World shithole. No offense.
Quote from: garbon on January 02, 2014, 03:45:45 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 02, 2014, 03:43:59 PM
Americans who cannot drive (say for medical reasons) cannot get ID? :yeahright:
They can. They go to the dmv and follow same process as getting a license (minus written/onroad driving test).
Can't they be made to do the tests anyway for cheap laughs?
Quote from: The Brain on January 02, 2014, 03:47:29 PM
America = Third World shithole. No offense.
None taken.
Quote from: The Brain on January 02, 2014, 03:48:37 PM
Can't they be made to do the tests anyway for cheap laughs?
Government is serious business. :mad:
Quote from: The Brain on January 02, 2014, 03:48:37 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 02, 2014, 03:45:45 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 02, 2014, 03:43:59 PM
Americans who cannot drive (say for medical reasons) cannot get ID? :yeahright:
They can. They go to the dmv and follow same process as getting a license (minus written/onroad driving test).
Can't they be made to do the tests anyway for cheap laughs?
I can't see the dmv workers wanting to do extra, unnecessary work.
Quote from: garbon on January 02, 2014, 03:55:07 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 02, 2014, 03:48:37 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 02, 2014, 03:45:45 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 02, 2014, 03:43:59 PM
Americans who cannot drive (say for medical reasons) cannot get ID? :yeahright:
They can. They go to the dmv and follow same process as getting a license (minus written/onroad driving test).
Can't they be made to do the tests anyway for cheap laughs?
I can't see the dmv workers wanting to do extra, unnecessary work.
Are you in some way implying that government workers are lazy? :mad:
Quote from: Barrister on January 02, 2014, 04:10:32 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 02, 2014, 03:55:07 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 02, 2014, 03:48:37 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 02, 2014, 03:45:45 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 02, 2014, 03:43:59 PM
Americans who cannot drive (say for medical reasons) cannot get ID? :yeahright:
They can. They go to the dmv and follow same process as getting a license (minus written/onroad driving test).
Can't they be made to do the tests anyway for cheap laughs?
I can't see the dmv workers wanting to do extra, unnecessary work.
Are you in some way implying that government workers are lazy? :mad:
I thought I was clearly stating that dmv workers are.
Quote from: garbon on January 02, 2014, 04:12:37 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 02, 2014, 04:10:32 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 02, 2014, 03:55:07 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 02, 2014, 03:48:37 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 02, 2014, 03:45:45 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 02, 2014, 03:43:59 PM
Americans who cannot drive (say for medical reasons) cannot get ID? :yeahright:
They can. They go to the dmv and follow same process as getting a license (minus written/onroad driving test).
Can't they be made to do the tests anyway for cheap laughs?
I can't see the dmv workers wanting to do extra, unnecessary work.
Are you in some way implying that government workers are lazy? :mad:
I thought I was clearly stating that dmv workers are.
They are public servants who carry out their duties with honour and nobility. :mad:
Government doesn't do unnecessary work. :)
Quote from: Barrister on January 02, 2014, 04:18:26 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 02, 2014, 04:12:37 PM
Quote from: Barrister on January 02, 2014, 04:10:32 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 02, 2014, 03:55:07 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 02, 2014, 03:48:37 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 02, 2014, 03:45:45 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 02, 2014, 03:43:59 PM
Americans who cannot drive (say for medical reasons) cannot get ID? :yeahright:
They can. They go to the dmv and follow same process as getting a license (minus written/onroad driving test).
Can't they be made to do the tests anyway for cheap laughs?
I can't see the dmv workers wanting to do extra, unnecessary work.
Are you in some way implying that government workers are lazy? :mad:
I thought I was clearly stating that dmv workers are.
They are public servants who carry out their duties with honour and nobility. :mad:
Perhaps those words have different meanings in Canada. Well, that first one doesn't mean anything here. :hmm:
Not having made it anywhere near that far in my research, is the law license separate from bar association membership? I'd always been led to believe that a felony (e.g. immigration violation) would disqualify someone from being admitted to the bar, making them unable to practice law in any case. :unsure:
Quote from: DontSayBanana on January 02, 2014, 07:52:11 PM
Not having made it anywhere near that far in my research, is the law license separate from bar association membership? I'd always been led to believe that a felony (e.g. immigration violation) would disqualify someone from being admitted to the bar, making them unable to practice law in any case. :unsure:
It would suck to go through your whole education, rack up student debt for it, pass the bar and then wind up getting convicted of some bullshit thing that happens to be a low-level felony.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 02, 2014, 11:08:44 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on January 02, 2014, 07:52:11 PM
Not having made it anywhere near that far in my research, is the law license separate from bar association membership? I'd always been led to believe that a felony (e.g. immigration violation) would disqualify someone from being admitted to the bar, making them unable to practice law in any case. :unsure:
It would suck to go through your whole education, rack up student debt for it, pass the bar and then wind up getting convicted of some bullshit thing that happens to be a low-level felony.
Don't commit crimes if you want to go to law school. :contract:
Dude you probably break like 15 laws a day without even knowing it. :lol:
Quote from: Barrister on January 02, 2014, 11:34:17 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 02, 2014, 11:08:44 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on January 02, 2014, 07:52:11 PM
Not having made it anywhere near that far in my research, is the law license separate from bar association membership? I'd always been led to believe that a felony (e.g. immigration violation) would disqualify someone from being admitted to the bar, making them unable to practice law in any case. :unsure:
It would suck to go through your whole education, rack up student debt for it, pass the bar and then wind up getting convicted of some bullshit thing that happens to be a low-level felony.
Don't commit crimes if you want to go to law school. :contract:
Exactly. wait until after your done your schooling, that was you know how to get around breaking the laws while getting the same outcome :P
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on January 02, 2014, 11:37:39 PM
Dude you probably break like 15 laws a day without even knowing it. :lol:
I was very precise in my terminology. :contract:
I probably do break the odd law, but not every law is a criminal law.
I can re-assure you that speeding tickets will not impair your ability to get called to the bar.
I find it amazing he can go through the system like that with people at the highest levels aware he is illegal without abything bad happening to him.
Things are different in the us I gather but in the uk... Reveal yourself to be an illegal and off to the gulag with you