Did you get them?
Do you give them now if you're a parent?
Do you think they're a good idea?
Prompted by Malthus' post about Christmas loot for punctuation.
I got them maybe until the end of elementary. Around 4th grade my parents decided to handicap what they saw as an unfair game and started giving me 500 won (about a buck) for an A on a report card and my brother 1,000 won.
It was an early lesson in in the basic injustice of the human condition. :mad:
No, I never got them. I was always very jealous of my cousins who did, particularly as I was running all As while they were sometimes managing to get Bs.
I don't think I would if I was a parent.
Never got them from my parents. We weren't rich so my uber grades would have destroyed us. In high school I got money from various school foundations for being so goddam awesome all the time.
I got nothing for getting good grades-- just punishment for getting bad grades.
Nope...though to be fair I never got very good grades :lol:
I have no plans on giving them to my kids either. I plan on taking their education pretty seriously though.
In primary school there was this lady who owned a bar near my school that would reward kids with good grades with free games at their arcade machines. I got myself plenty of those. :smarty:
My parents never gave me monetary rewards for good grades, but at the end of the year, if they were good, I could ask for a prent. Again, only at primary school,
McDonalds used to give out happy meals for 'A' grades. I assumed the Liverul pussies made them stop.
I got a buck per A, 10 bucks for straight As. Think that went up to 25 by high school.
Didnt get them. Dont give them. Don't have to - both boys already get straight As
If I had a child who was struggling and other means of motivation didnt work I might do it.
I never did. However, I probably would do it if I were a parent (though not with very large sums, perhaps enough to buy a game or two or whatever), since I imagine it's one of the best ways to encourage good study skills from a young age.
Oh yeah, forgot to add that I got a dollar taken off for each C and if I got a single D or F I got nothing.
Quote from: Camerus on November 14, 2013, 05:47:58 PM
I never did. However, I probably would do it if I were a parent (though not with very large sums, perhaps enough to buy a game or two or whatever), since I imagine it's one of the best ways to encourage good study skills from a young age.
I don't know about that. Particularly at the younger ages, is one going to remain focused enough on a daily basis to keep grades up for a reward months in the future?
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2013, 05:58:25 PM
Quote from: Camerus on November 14, 2013, 05:47:58 PM
I never did. However, I probably would do it if I were a parent (though not with very large sums, perhaps enough to buy a game or two or whatever), since I imagine it's one of the best ways to encourage good study skills from a young age.
I don't know about that. Particularly at the younger ages, is one going to remain focused enough on a daily basis to keep grades up for a reward months in the future?
It's certainly better than for unspecified rewards years in the future, i.e. after university graduation. :P
But seriously, you could also tie the rewards to specific short-term achievements if that worked better, like test results or whatever.
Quote from: Camerus on November 14, 2013, 06:00:38 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2013, 05:58:25 PM
Quote from: Camerus on November 14, 2013, 05:47:58 PM
I never did. However, I probably would do it if I were a parent (though not with very large sums, perhaps enough to buy a game or two or whatever), since I imagine it's one of the best ways to encourage good study skills from a young age.
I don't know about that. Particularly at the younger ages, is one going to remain focused enough on a daily basis to keep grades up for a reward months in the future?
It's certainly better than for unspecified rewards years in the future, i.e. after university graduation. :P
But that's typically more of an intrinsic motivation and I think it is more towards getting into university (/a good one) as grades matter less afterwards.
I suppose so on the short-term ones but I just wonder if that doesn't work well as an attempt to jump start intrinsic motivation to want to do good.
I only got punished for non-perfect grades. I responded by not revealing report cards and being passive aggressive when they were asked for.
No, internalized guilt was enough to make me dread getting less than perfect grades, as I did in my STEM ( :lol:) classes.
I did get Lotto tickets for being good during my excruciating dental procedures, though.
Never got anything for good grades (given how poor we were, that's probably not a surprise), and I never gave anything for good grades.
That being said, my ex has told Riley that if she maintains straight-A's all through high school, he'll buy her the car of her choice. Probably not the smartest move on his part, since she's always gotten straight-A's so it's not much of a struggle for her, and right now she's eyeing a 1977 red Ferrari. :D
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 14, 2013, 04:07:30 PM
Did you get them?
Do you give them now if you're a parent?
Do you think they're a good idea?
My friends were receiving money every time they had 60+. I suggested my parents did the same, but they disagreed :(
Quote from: merithyn on November 14, 2013, 06:13:35 PM
Never got anything for good grades (given how poor we were, that's probably not a surprise), and I never gave anything for good grades.
That being said, my ex has told Riley that if she maintains straight-A's all through high school, he'll buy her the car of her choice. Probably not the smartest move on his part, since she's always gotten straight-A's so it's not much of a struggle for her, and right now she's eyeing a 1977 red Ferrari. :D
Notify that girl of the Bugatti Veyron. List price? Around 2.5 million.
Quote from: merithyn on November 14, 2013, 06:13:35 PM
Never got anything for good grades (given how poor we were, that's probably not a surprise), and I never gave anything for good grades.
That being said, my ex has told Riley that if she maintains straight-A's all through high school, he'll buy her the car of her choice. Probably not the smartest move on his part, since she's always gotten straight-A's so it's not much of a struggle for her, and right now she's eyeing a 1977 red Ferrari. :D
I think he's planning on teaching her a valuable life lesson, people are invariable not as good as their word and are a general let-down. :P
I would give a child $1000 for each A in math, science, technology, and foreign language classes. A's in English and history would involve a sober discussion after dinner.
Why would your American child need to know a foreign language? :huh:
They tried everything; cash, pain compliance, let-him-do-it, etc.
The only thing that ever really worked was around Xmas in 9th grade; Dad ordered a game from Avalon Hill for Xmas, and decided to order a copy of Avalon Hill's Third Reich as well--to be used as a "reward" for good grades at the end of the year, and it sat on a shelf in the dining room from January to May.
So there it sat, for 5 agonizingly long months, staring at me through its shrinkwrap. I think I memorized the text on the back of the box. But I got straight Bs the rest of the way, and that was enough.
My mom is a teacher, so she knew grades were mostly bullshit.
Quote from: derspiess on November 14, 2013, 04:17:15 PM
I got nothing for getting good grades-- just punishment for getting bad grades.
Funny how parents tend to adhere to that philosophy. Like I was "expected" to get good grades.
Goddammit, there was no way I was going to do good in school, simply because everybody expected me to.
But in the end, I won and showed them all--demanding parents and all those fascist teachers--by doing exactly jack shit and not amounting to anything in life. :smarty:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 14, 2013, 07:46:10 PM
Quote from: derspiess on November 14, 2013, 04:17:15 PM
I got nothing for getting good grades-- just punishment for getting bad grades.
Funny how parents tend to adhere to that philosophy. Like I was "expected" to get good grades.
Goddammit, there was no way I was going to do good in school, simply because everybody expected me to.
But in the end, I won and showed them all--demanding parents and all those fascist teachers--by doing exactly jack shit and not amounting to anything in life. :smarty:
My friend, this is bullshit of a high order; a life can be redeemed by just one right act, though you might not realise it at the time; some of the people who peddle the 'amounting to something in life' are cowards, who lack the imagination to do anything out of the norm, the norm set by similar dullards who went before them.
I received no won for my grades.
I never got them though I heard of some kids who did, which annoyed me to no end- I usually got decent grades but no reward, the one time he actually pulls something off he recieved £20. Travesty.
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2013, 07:35:53 PM
Why would your American child need to know a foreign language? :huh:
why does one need history or philosophy at all?
Didn't really get money for grades per se. But my parents would basically buy any computer game I wanted with the implicit understanding that the gravy train was dependent upon doing well academically.
Quote from: viper37 on November 14, 2013, 08:07:41 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2013, 07:35:53 PM
Why would your American child need to know a foreign language? :huh:
why does one need history or philosophy at all?
I was talking in Ide's scenario where he will punish his child doing well in history. Seems the utility of a foreign language would also be low in such a setup. Better those efforts were channeled elsewhere given the marginal benefit.
I didn't say I would punish him--or, hopefully, her, insofar as I'd do my best to never have a male child. If she were interested in history/literature at the expense of her economically viable studies, I'd be a bad parent if I didn't try to reach her and try to understand what her troubles were. :(
Re: foreign language, foreign language skills are always a plus factor. She'd be learning Mandarin, Portuguese, Hindi, and/or Arabic.
Quote from: mongers on November 14, 2013, 08:00:51 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 14, 2013, 07:46:10 PM
But in the end, I won and showed them all--demanding parents and all those fascist teachers--by doing exactly jack shit and not amounting to anything in life. :smarty:
My friend, this is bullshit of a high order; a life can be redeemed by just one right act, though you might not realise it at the time; some of the people who peddle the 'amounting to something in life' are cowards, who lack the imagination to do anything out of the norm, the norm set by similar dullards who went before them.
Luckily, the great thing about being over 40 is that all the how-come-you're-not-a-real-professional-like-a-doctor-or-lawyer-you're-not-even-a-father stuff pretty much stops in your mid-30s. It's smooth sailing from here on out.
Mongers is a good egg. He tried to mail me a movie once. It got eaten by customs or something, but he's made something of his life, in my book. :hug:
Yes for GCSEs and AS-levels. Gave me some money when I did my A-levels too, towards travelling :)
Btw, garbon, serious question--where would the effort be better channeled? More math?
Quote from: Ideologue on November 14, 2013, 09:25:51 PM
Btw, garbon, serious question--where would the effort be better channeled? More math?
Accepting your rules, and typical school subjects, sure. That or more science. I don't think those language skills would show themselves to be more useful unless you want your child to move to one of those places.
Now, of course that isn't a position I actually hold in our real world. But then I also wouldn't reject excellence in history or literature, particularly not when they are mandated parts of school curricula.
edit:Actually perhaps more business classes. My school was pretty shitty but we had a lot of classes on computer applications.
I want her to be able to do engineering and business deals with foreigners.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 14, 2013, 09:33:51 PM
I want her to be able to do engineering and business deals with foreigners.
Why should she do that if she can just get others to handle it for her? Besides, at least for the Hindi piece, wouldn't she be better off conducting the deal in English?
She's not being born into the Malthus Family, at best she'll be the one someone else will get to that for them.
Also I'm very surprised no one seized on my sex-selective abortion allusion. You're a jaded lot.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 14, 2013, 09:39:59 PM
Also I'm very surprised no one seized on my sex-selective abortion allusion. You're a jaded lot.
We need your educated and professionally-driven daughter to cancel out derfetus' traditional-gender-roles, stay-at-home daughter at the polls.
I'd give students a year of credits just if they went and lived in Japan or China or someplace for a year. Even if they did no classes during that time.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 14, 2013, 09:39:24 PM
She's not being born into the Malthus Family, at best she'll be the one someone else will get to that for them.
I'd hope unlike you that she'd reach for the stars. :)
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 14, 2013, 09:42:17 PM
I'd give students a year of credits just if they went and lived in Japan or China or someplace for a year. Even if they did no classes during that time.
That seems...odd.
Never got in trouble for bad grades or rewarded for good grades, but I tended towards good grades.
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2013, 09:45:08 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 14, 2013, 09:39:24 PM
She's not being born into the Malthus Family, at best she'll be the one someone else will get to that for them.
I'd hope unlike you that she'd reach for the stars. :)
She needs to keep her expectations realistic. I don't want her to develop personality disorders.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 14, 2013, 09:51:27 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2013, 09:45:08 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 14, 2013, 09:39:24 PM
She's not being born into the Malthus Family, at best she'll be the one someone else will get to that for them.
I'd hope unlike you that she'd reach for the stars. :)
She needs to keep her expectations realistic. I don't want her to develop personality disorders.
Is it that hard to imagine that she could manage people(/outsource) who handle the local transactions?
No, but I think you're radically understating the economic value of knowing a foreign language, especially a hard, "rare" one.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 14, 2013, 10:00:10 PM
No, but I think you're radically understating the economic value of knowing a foreign language, especially a hard, "rare" one.
I think you are overestimating it. Not really sure Hindi counts as a "hard" one and again I think English would be enough for that. I suppose maybe Mandarin could be more worth the investment but our resident penny pincher, Mono, told us not to bother. :D
Also Portuguese? :unsure:
And Arabic? :unsure:
Ok, ok, maybe not Hindi.
Portuguese is for Brazil, a rising economy. Not for the HVCs and Martim Silvas of the world.
Arabic is for oil; though their position is of course likely to wane in time, they're still the big producers. Also she could do military work. (Same deal with Mandarin BTW.)
Portuguese and Arabic sound pretty useful to me. Hundreds of millions speak them, after all.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 14, 2013, 10:04:37 PM
Portuguese is for Brazil, a rising economy. Not for the HVCs and Martim Silvas of the world.
And English leaves her in the cold in dealing with any of that? Particularly the latter examples which are people who mostly (word added for HVC :D) speak English.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 14, 2013, 10:04:37 PM
Arabic is for oil; though their position is of course likely to wane in time, they're still the big producers. Also she could do military work. (Same deal with Mandarin BTW.)
Oh, I didn't realize we were positing military work here as a positive. :blush:
I think really on the language front, only useful if you have some sense of where you might actually want to get involved. Learning Mandarin isn't going to be a useful pursuit if your future dealings involve just Europe.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 14, 2013, 10:05:28 PM
Portuguese and Arabic sound pretty useful to me. Hundreds of millions speak them, after all.
And how many of those dealing internationally are open to speaking English?
Again, I wasn't saying learning a foreign language is useless, but in a place where we are only celebrating an American's accomplishments in economically useful skills, there seems to be a marginal return.
Actually, Ide, if being more realistic, how likely would it be that this daughter of yours would be having dealings in other countries? ;)
She should learn French. Still the largest "second language" population in the world.
Trying to totally dictate someone's future is a fool's errand. But learning a foreign language early is easier (like going transgender :P ), so whether it wound up a hard-skill advantage or just a party trick, I wouldn't say it was totally wasted.
Also, there's the possibility that it could open up mating opportunities with well-off people from the culture whose language she learned. I dunno how good that idea is (subject to many factors and individual assessment, but I suspect that there's a good chance I'd be mildly opposed to marrying outside of Western civilization), but it could help if that's the direction she believed was the most advantageous to her well-being and comfort.
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2013, 10:11:44 PM
Actually, Ide, if being more realistic, how likely would it be that this daughter of yours would be having dealings in other countries? ;)
I've been trying to ignore these little barbs. I'd awfully rather you knocked it off. <_<
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 14, 2013, 10:12:05 PM
She should learn French. Still the largest "second language" population in the world.
She'd wind up [REDACTED]. How mortifying.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 14, 2013, 10:16:01 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2013, 10:11:44 PM
Actually, Ide, if being more realistic, how likely would it be that this daughter of yours would be having dealings in other countries? ;)
I've been trying to ignore these little barbs. I'd awfully rather you knocked it off. <_<
Hey I was the one saying that she could probably be successful so she wouldn't need to aim low. <_<
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 14, 2013, 10:05:28 PM
Portuguese and Arabic sound pretty useful to me. Hundreds of millions speak them, after all.
I think Arabic is tough because it's so based on dialect for day-to-day communication.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 14, 2013, 10:15:27 PM
Trying to totally dictate someone's future is a fool's errand. But learning a foreign language early is easier (like going transgender :P ), so whether it wound up a hard-skill advantage or just a party trick, I wouldn't say it was totally wasted.
Also, there's the possibility that it could open up mating opportunities with well-off people from the culture whose language she learned. I dunno how good that idea is (subject to many factors and individual assessment, but I suspect that there's a good chance I'd be mildly opposed to marrying outside of Western civilization), but it could help if that's the direction she believed was the most advantageous to her well-being and comfort.
Yeah but couldn't she equally likely be served by the analysis skills she picked up in history and English classes?
No need for bribery yet on my end. Although the twins are rapidly tiring of homework.
AND WHO THE HELL GIVES KINDERGARDENERS HOMEWORK? Still annoys me. It wasn't until jr high that I got homework. Fucking educational system.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 14, 2013, 10:21:46 PM
It wasn't until jr high that I got homework. Fucking educational system.
Still don't get that shit at all. I remember getting homework in 2nd grade.
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2013, 10:19:07 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on November 14, 2013, 10:16:01 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2013, 10:11:44 PM
Actually, Ide, if being more realistic, how likely would it be that this daughter of yours would be having dealings in other countries? ;)
I've been trying to ignore these little barbs. I'd awfully rather you knocked it off. <_<
Hey I was the one saying that she could probably be successful so she wouldn't need to aim low. <_<
I just wouldn't want my kid to believe she can be/do anything. That kind of thinking clouds the judgment. It works out for some, and we celebrate them. It destroys others, and we revile them. I would want her to be able to be satisfied and content, instead of living a life incongruent with her self-image, because that's what really fucks a person up.
QuoteYeah but couldn't she equally likely be served by the analysis skills she picked up in history and English classes?
I doubt it. :lol:
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 14, 2013, 10:23:42 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 14, 2013, 10:21:46 PM
It wasn't until jr high that I got homework. Fucking educational system.
Still don't get that shit at all. I remember getting homework in 2nd grade.
The fairborn ohio school system was run by retarded apes.
Hell, the entire city government was too. And still is.
Quote from: Ideologue on November 14, 2013, 10:25:38 PM
QuoteYeah but couldn't she equally likely be served by the analysis skills she picked up in history and English classes?
I doubt it. :lol:
:rolleyes:
Maybe not that retarded. Homework for second graders is retarded. I remember not doing any until jr high also--not because it wasn't assigned though. :P