So my current computer is a 2008 Mac Pro, quad core Xenon processor, AMD 5770, 6GB RAM (used to have 10 GB, some burned out). I actually triple boot between OS X, Win XP and Win 7. I find I spent a bit more time in Win 7 than OS X, and never any time any longer in Win XP.
Sooner or later I'll need to retire this baby, but I'm not sure which way to go. :unsure: I have three quite conflicting interests.
1. I like Apple. Always have. However I haven't always owned a Mac. In fact there was a huge span from about 1995-2008 where I didn't have a Mac. Because...
2. I like to use my computer to play games. If I'm being honest I really don't have the time to any longer - maybe an hour at the end of the day. But I like the ability to play them. And while OS X gaming has gotten miles better than it was a decade ago, plenty of games can only be done through Windows. But now there's one more consideration...
3. Man - laptops have gotten GOOD the last few years. My wife has a MacBook Pro that rocks. I was recently given an HP Ultrabook at work that's the first Windows laptop that doesn't suck for me. I'm really tempted to just get a laptop to replace my Mac Pro tower.
So I bought the Mac Pro because it was the no-comprise combination of #1 and #2 - a Mac with enough drive bays, and a powerful enough graphics card, to also play games on. But the new Mac Pro is just to damn expensive for me (starting at $3,000) to go that route again.
So what should I get? My thoughts are...
A. Get an 27" iMac. Unlike in 2008 they have graphics cards probably powerful enough to game on (GT 755M or 775M). 1 TB drive is big enough to install windows on. Means my current 27" monitor goes to waste, and they're fairly expensive (up to $2,000). Is obviously not mobile. So this would combine 1 & 2 from above.
B. Get a MacBook Pro. With flash storage there will NOT be room to install Windows. The Intel Iris graphics should be powerful enough to play any game released for Mac. Is still fairly expensive (Again up to $2,000, which is the most I'll consider, but would like to pay less). But being able to take in anywhere would be really, really nice. This would combine 1 and 3.
C. Get a Windows laptop. In my mind at least I can design an almost perfect Windows laptop - take a clean business look Ultrabook, low weight, with a discrete graphics card good enough for gaming, and I might overlook the lack of OS X. And it would be much cheaper. But does such a thing exist? I would be embarrassed to take an Alienware or the like out in public. If it exists, this would combine 2 & 3.
I dunno, I'm just rambling. But any thoughts from you lot? What are you using for your computing needs these days? Anyone migrated to mobile-only?
I think you should build a Windows desktop like your idol Cal. :)
Have you considered getting a MacBook Air & a fairly powerfull Desktop PC dedicated to gaming only?
I use Neogaf for much of my PC building advices.
Read the OP of this : http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=504567
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 08, 2013, 01:34:41 PM
Have you considered getting a MacBook Air & a fairly powerfull Desktop PC dedicated to gaming only?
It's not a bad point. :hmm:
But here's the trouble. I can convince Mrs. B that I need a new computer. I could convince her that I want to replace my Mac Pro with a laptop, but "dock it" in my basement office.
But if I went to her and said "I want to buy a new computer, AND I want to buy a laptop" she'd say that's too much money - that I can use her laptop when I need to. Even if, objectively, it cost the same amount.
And by the way, is it ever a nightmare to shop Windows laptops. :bleeding: So many differing names, and you really have to drill down to try and find the specs.
Quote from: Barrister on November 08, 2013, 01:59:35 PM
And by the way, is it ever a nightmare to shop Windows laptops. :bleeding: So many differing names, and you really have to drill down to try and find the specs.
:lol:
Quote from: garbon on November 08, 2013, 02:02:37 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 08, 2013, 01:59:35 PM
And by the way, is it ever a nightmare to shop Windows laptops. :bleeding: So many differing names, and you really have to drill down to try and find the specs.
:lol:
No, seriously. I'm trying to find laptops with the new Haswell architecture, but good luck trying to figure that out...
Quote from: Barrister on November 08, 2013, 02:05:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 08, 2013, 02:02:37 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 08, 2013, 01:59:35 PM
And by the way, is it ever a nightmare to shop Windows laptops. :bleeding: So many differing names, and you really have to drill down to try and find the specs.
:lol:
No, seriously. I'm trying to find laptops with the new Haswell architecture, but good luck trying to figure that out...
By process of deduction Haswell laptops don't seem to actually exist yet (except for MBPs).
Quote from: Barrister on November 08, 2013, 02:30:30 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 08, 2013, 02:05:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 08, 2013, 02:02:37 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 08, 2013, 01:59:35 PM
And by the way, is it ever a nightmare to shop Windows laptops. :bleeding: So many differing names, and you really have to drill down to try and find the specs.
:lol:
No, seriously. I'm trying to find laptops with the new Haswell architecture, but good luck trying to figure that out...
By process of deduction Haswell laptops don't seem to actually exist yet (except for MBPs).
Haswell gaming laptop : http://www.originpc.com/gaming/laptops/eon15-s/
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 08, 2013, 02:36:08 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 08, 2013, 02:30:30 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 08, 2013, 02:05:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 08, 2013, 02:02:37 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 08, 2013, 01:59:35 PM
And by the way, is it ever a nightmare to shop Windows laptops. :bleeding: So many differing names, and you really have to drill down to try and find the specs.
:lol:
No, seriously. I'm trying to find laptops with the new Haswell architecture, but good luck trying to figure that out...
By process of deduction Haswell laptops don't seem to actually exist yet (except for MBPs).
Haswell gaming laptop : http://www.originpc.com/gaming/laptops/eon15-s/
What an ugly, ugly computer. :yucky:
When I say they "don't seem to exist", a bunch have been announced, but you can't buy them yet on any major online retailer.
For example, I discovered a ASUS Zenbook (UX302) that, if I were to buy a Windows laptop, sounds like what I'd be looking for - low weight, Haswell processor, discrete graphics good enough to run modern games (on medium settings). But you can't actually find one for sale.
Yes, things are extremely quiet at work - why do you ask? :unsure:
Just convince your wife mate.
You need to buy the gaming desktop first anyway.
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 08, 2013, 02:44:14 PM
Just convince your wife mate.
You need to buy the gaming desktop first anyway.
I'm blaming MRs B, but that's not actually right or fair.
*I* think I can't justify buying both a gaming computer, and a laptop just for me. And, since we're talking about a MBA which starts at $1,000, it would cost as much or more money than to just buy one computer.
True.
What you need right now is a new gaming ring(like everyone else actually, this new console generation is going to hurt us all) but not a new mac.
I really do appreciate how the only advice you guys gave was the option I wasn't interested in - a full PC gaming machine. <_<
Quote from: Barrister on November 08, 2013, 04:04:52 PM
I really do appreciate how the only advice you guys gave was the option I wasn't interested in - a full PC gaming machine. <_<
I gave you the advice to buy both a mac laptop & a desktop PC.
All your other options are not viable.
Beeb, you all get the cheap windows laptops up there? There are some screamers advertised down here in the 5 to 7 hundred dollar range. Sure the graphics are intel 4000's, but the do moderate gaming well.
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 08, 2013, 06:25:03 PM
Beeb, you all get the cheap windows laptops up there? There are some screamers advertised down here in the 5 to 7 hundred dollar range. Sure the graphics are intel 4000's, but the do moderate gaming well.
I was looking at maybe getting something that still had discrete NVidia graphics. As far as I can tell they'll run even the latest and greatest, albeit not at max graphics options.
If you only play 1hr a week, a gaming laptop would be ok.
I would go with something like that:
http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=84899&promoid=1244
It sells for 1949$ and it's decent hardware.
Now, it won't beat a desktop, but if you only play a little, I think that's your best solution. Might want to invest in a seperate mouse though, for gaming.
Quote from: viper37 on November 11, 2013, 09:13:29 PM
If you only play 1hr a week, a gaming laptop would be ok.
I would go with something like that:
http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=84899&promoid=1244
It sells for 1949$ and it's decent hardware.
Now, it won't beat a desktop, but if you only play a little, I think that's your best solution. Might want to invest in a seperate mouse though, for gaming.
It's up to an hour per day, not per week, but I don't even have a gaming mouse now.
That laptop is 10lb - you might as well get a desktop.
Quote from: Barrister on November 12, 2013, 12:43:58 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 11, 2013, 09:13:29 PM
If you only play 1hr a week, a gaming laptop would be ok.
I would go with something like that:
http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=84899&promoid=1244 (http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=84899&promoid=1244)
It sells for 1949$ and it's decent hardware.
Now, it won't beat a desktop, but if you only play a little, I think that's your best solution. Might want to invest in a seperate mouse though, for gaming.
It's up to an hour per day, not per week, but I don't even have a gaming mouse now.
That laptop is 10lb - you might as well get a desktop.
Hey, you want to play on a laptop, you have to sacrifice some things :)
If you want a lightweight laptop AND enough power to play games 1hr a day, then yeah, you will need to follow Grey Fox advice and buy two machines.
Unless you try to find a smaller screen laptop, hook it up to a tv/monitor, use a seperate keyboard and mouse? But then, I'm not sure it would be worth it...
This laptop here:
http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=83177&vpn=NX.M8SAA.002&manufacture=Acer&promoid=1244 (http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=83177&vpn=NX.M8SAA.002&manufacture=Acer&promoid=1244)
It is less powerfull thant the Asus, but it is only 3.2kg (7lbs)
I have had good experience with Acer Laptop, but a lot of people hate them, consider them unreliable. Two Acer laptops and zero problems save for the short battery life on one (wich I changed for a long duration battery). It comes with Windows 7, but you can get Windows 8.1 for free, I guess, if you really want to. Apparently, Windows 8 is better for gaming. If you can get past the Metro interface.
I don't think you can get below 5lbs for a gaming laptop, there's just too much stuff.
He's trying very very hard to avoid having to come to the realisation that he needs a PC not a mac.
That or spend 5000$ on a Mac Book Pro to put Windows 8.1 on it.
Quote from: Barrister on November 08, 2013, 04:04:52 PM
I really do appreciate how the only advice you guys gave was the option I wasn't interested in - a full PC gaming machine. <_<
But if you aren't interested in that, then isn't a new MBP a no brainer? You should be able to play just about anything on that.
Yet the objection you make to that is that it isn't good enough for gaming. And really if you need more than a full PC gaming machine is the next step up.
Given your stated usage level on gaming I would think the MBP would be enough.
But the alternative would be an Air + a Steam Box. Tell the wife the latter is just a console.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 12, 2013, 12:40:37 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 08, 2013, 04:04:52 PM
I really do appreciate how the only advice you guys gave was the option I wasn't interested in - a full PC gaming machine. <_<
But if you aren't interested in that, then isn't a new MBP a no brainer? You should be able to play just about anything on that.
Yet the objection you make to that is that it isn't good enough for gaming. And really if you need more than a full PC gaming machine is the next step up.
Given your stated usage level on gaming I would think the MBP would be enough.
But the alternative would be an Air + a Steam Box. Tell the wife the latter is just a console.
Ironically the prior generation MBPs would have been almost ideal - discrete graphics card, magnetic storage up to 1TB, in a fairly reasonable price. (you need the big storage if you're going to dual boot to Windows).
But the new generation have done away with the discrete graphics in favour of Intel Iris integrated graphics (except for the $2700 15" option), and have all flash memory.
See, what I was thinking of would be something such as off off this list:
http://www.ultrabookreview.com/3331-haswell-ultrabooks/
as long as you get the discrete graphics. Enough power to run games, light enough to make worth while to tote around.
Or, just get an iMac and dual boot that.
Quote from: viper37 on November 12, 2013, 11:34:26 AM
Unless you try to find a smaller screen laptop, hook it up to a tv/monitor, use a seperate keyboard and mouse? But then, I'm not sure it would be worth it...
That's exactly what I was thinking of. It's the setup I have at work - a laptop hooked up to a docking station.
So BB, did you recently sign up to a stealth social media marketing program ?
Quote from: mongers on November 12, 2013, 03:40:05 PM
So BB, did you recently sign up to a stealth social media marketing program ?
:unsure:
Quote from: Barrister on November 12, 2013, 12:49:41 PM
Ironically the prior generation MBPs would have been almost ideal - discrete graphics card, magnetic storage up to 1TB, in a fairly reasonable price. (you need the big storage if you're going to dual boot to Windows).
256 should be enough to dual boot windows. You could put in 100 GB partition easy.
Why would you need 1 TB of storage on your laptop?
You can always get a cheap NAS to store media files for streaming if that is the issue.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 12, 2013, 06:09:25 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 12, 2013, 12:49:41 PM
Ironically the prior generation MBPs would have been almost ideal - discrete graphics card, magnetic storage up to 1TB, in a fairly reasonable price. (you need the big storage if you're going to dual boot to Windows).
256 should be enough to dual boot windows. You could put in 100 GB partition easy.
Why would you need 1 TB of storage on your laptop?
You can always get a cheap NAS to store media files for streaming if that is the issue.
I dunno - just looking at my current Win 7 HDD on the Mac Pro, and it has filled 105GB with just Windows and <6 games installed.
Not being a movie pirate, my media files are fairly small.
Quote from: Barrister on November 13, 2013, 12:33:53 AM
I dunno - just looking at my current Win 7 HDD on the Mac Pro, and it has filled 105GB with just Windows and <6 games installed.
OK, but given your game play level, you don't NEED 6 games installed at all times.
Also I had a lot more than that on a 100 GB partition; not sure why so much space is being taken up. Do you have a heavily modded Elder Scrolls game or something?
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 13, 2013, 10:38:59 AM
Quote from: Barrister on November 13, 2013, 12:33:53 AM
I dunno - just looking at my current Win 7 HDD on the Mac Pro, and it has filled 105GB with just Windows and <6 games installed.
OK, but given your game play level, you don't NEED 6 games installed at all times.
Also I had a lot more than that on a 100 GB partition; not sure why so much space is being taken up. Do you have a heavily modded Elder Scrolls game or something?
Not sure if there are any other online gaming habits, but Star Trek Online's a bitch when it comes to space- 10.3GB on my hard drive.
Series are the worst. I don't even want to discuss how much hard drive space I have taken up with Sims 2 and 3 expansions. :blush:
*bump*
Considering going with a Hackintosh - build your own Intel machine, but dual boot between OS X and Windows.
In some ways it might be ideal (though it means giving up on being mobile) as you should be able to get a strong gaming machine, but still have OS X. Downside of course is not only have I never built a machine before (though I've swapped a few components here and there - RAM, graphics cards, PSUs), and that installing OS X involves a bunch of unofficial hacks that are hardly trivial.
I don't think so, but does anyone have any experience with a hackintosh?
You love OS X THAT much?
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 26, 2014, 12:11:28 PM
You love OS X THAT much?
That's what I'm trying to get a handle on - how much work is going hackintosh, so I can figure out if I like OS X enough to do it.
It really is very, very good. And besides I'm deep in the Apple ecosystem at this point - iPhone, lots of iTunes content, Apple TV, wife's MacBook Pro, kids iPad, Apple AirPort...
Ah.
After a quick google seach if I was doing this I would go on kakewalk.se & buy what he recommends & use his tools.
Quote from: Grey Fox on February 26, 2014, 12:18:45 PM
Ah.
After a quick google seach if I was doing this I would go on kakewalk.se & buy what he recommends & use his tools.
The #1 go-to site seems to be http://www.tonymacx86.com
I checked out your site but seems to have no updates for the last year.
That does seem to be a better site.
Have you considered Macbuntu?
or just use this transformation pack (http://www.thememypc.com/os-x-mavericks-transformation-pack-2-0/) to make Windows look like mac OS.
I haven't done a Hackintosh, but I'm strongly considering setting one up myself, since I'd really like to be able to use XCode for iOS app development.
You know what I would do?
I'd do a 27" iMac. The $1800 base model (going USD here chief), has the discrete graphics card (but you obviously know it's a mobile card, but unless you're going for bleeding edge it's fine), and comes standard with a 1 TB drive. If you're into SSD you can actually roll with a 256 gb SSD and do two partitions and put your OSes on both. With the speeds of USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt buy a 1 TB external drive and there's really no reason to put anything else on your OS SSD if you're concerned for space. But if you're fine with a slower HDD (I am, personally), the $1800 base model with 1 TB standard is more than you'd ever need.
It just seems like the best option for what you're wanting. While things are better than ever before, it's still I think required to have a bootable Windows install to absolutely maximize the number of games you can easily play without virtualizing (which causes a performance hit.) So you really need something that can boot into Windows, and you want to keep OSX. Best way to do that right now, with your price parameters are an iMac.
Further, the 27" iMac display is very, very nice. You can also set it to turn into a monitor (I forget the name of the mode) and hook a laptop to it. So maybe if your wife ever needs / wants to work on a big screen or dual screens she could actually use the iMac for that. It's essentially the $999 27" Thunderbolt display sold by Apple separately, but for $900 more you get a Mac inside of it. I think they're a strong value.
The most compelling thing about MBP is its portability. But I didn't read anything in your posts where that portability seemed to matter much to you, and in that case I can't see a better option than the iMac for you.
I'd never buy it but depending on the games, the Intel IRIS GPU in the $2000 MBP may be fine for your gaming needs. My understanding is it actually beats the prior gen MBPs in performance, while obviously not being equivalent to a discrete GPU in a current generation laptop. But it is a big price step-up from $2k to $2.7k to get the discrete GPU in the MBP.
If you are going for laptops, I would most likely buy a Mac.
It kinda just works.
If you're going for a Win laptop, I would check out the more pricey sections of MSI, Asus and Dell's offerings.
Why anyone would not want a Windows desktop gaming computer is beyond me.
Built my third in four years. This is my 40 year crisis motorcycle.