People who played Civ4 may have heard of him, as well as others with an interest in Asian/Indian history. His wikipedia entry seems slightly fanboish but he seems like a really unique ruler, way beyond his time and culture (He apparently allowed female education, introduced religious tolerance, banned slavery, death penalty, and even regulated hunting, fishing and deforestation being apparently the first environmentalist).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka_the_great
Does anyone know if there are serious historians disputing his achievements?
He ruled brown pipple. :contract:
I don't know that much about him, but there's a street nearby named after him.
There's also a radical Buddhist sect here named after him. Not radical in the blow shit up sense, but in the go in to the forest and be weird sense.
Quote from: The Brain on May 31, 2009, 04:04:26 AM
He ruled brown pipple. :contract:
Which should be another feather in his hat, given that he successfully introduced civilized reforms on barbaric peoples.
Quote from: Slargos on May 31, 2009, 04:46:33 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 31, 2009, 04:04:26 AM
He ruled brown pipple. :contract:
Which should be another feather in his hat, given that he successfully introduced civilized reforms on barbaric peoples.
Talent applied retardedly earns to points.
Quote from: The Brain on May 31, 2009, 04:50:12 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 31, 2009, 04:46:33 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 31, 2009, 04:04:26 AM
He ruled brown pipple. :contract:
Which should be another feather in his hat, given that he successfully introduced civilized reforms on barbaric peoples.
Talent applied retardedly earns to points.
Sometimes I don't get you, and I worry whether it is a basic failing on my part, or a basic disability on yours. :weep:
Quote from: Slargos on May 31, 2009, 05:09:54 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 31, 2009, 04:50:12 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 31, 2009, 04:46:33 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 31, 2009, 04:04:26 AM
He ruled brown pipple. :contract:
Which should be another feather in his hat, given that he successfully introduced civilized reforms on barbaric peoples.
Talent applied retardedly earns to points.
Sometimes I don't get you, and I worry whether it is a basic failing on my part, or a basic disability on yours. :weep:
IT WAS A TYPO
Quote from: Slargos on May 31, 2009, 05:09:54 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 31, 2009, 04:50:12 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 31, 2009, 04:46:33 AM
Quote from: The Brain on May 31, 2009, 04:04:26 AM
He ruled brown pipple. :contract:
Which should be another feather in his hat, given that he successfully introduced civilized reforms on barbaric peoples.
Talent applied retardedly earns to points.
Sometimes I don't get you, and I worry whether it is a basic failing on my part, or a basic disability on yours. :weep:
Bmollson , but not as funny.
Sounds like hippie scum. Any country without the death penalty is untenable.
Quote from: Neil on May 31, 2009, 07:20:54 AM
Sounds like hippie scum. Any country without the death penalty is untenable.
Actually I think there is a tendency, especially since most sources on him come from religious texts to associate everything with his benevolence and drop out any sense of practical concerns.
Just searched a little bit:
John Keay's
India: A History suggests that although he said it is good not to kill animals or human beings: goats, sheep and cattle were regularly killed for eating; hunting-sacrifices were largely curtailed to reign in the brahmins, and he retained capital punishment as an option. "Dhamma was carefully formulated so that essential interests should not be prejudiced while sectarian concerns were being accommodated."
I also found
Early India by Romila Thapar who points out "Ashoka was not adamant in his insistence on non-violence. He recognized that there were occasions when violence might be unavoidable, for instance when forest-dwellers were troublesome...He also states that he would prefer his descendants not to conquer by force, but should it be necessary hopes they will conduct this conquest with a maximum of mercy and clemency."
She also suggests that he listed a certain number of animals, birds and fish that were considered inviolable, although the inviolability of some is linked to particular days of the calendar; so that rather than an early example of conservation of wildlife, their preservation likely points to a ritual or medicinal connection.
Apparently Thapar has written a book specifically on the Mauras where she situates information about Ashoka in historical and less of the most benevolent ruler and more one of shrewd, political insight.
So in other words, he was the Obama of ancient India? :P
I hope not. Maurya civilization collapsed within 50 years of his death.
Everything good he ever did he learned from the Byzantines.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 01, 2009, 08:46:34 AM
Everything good he ever did he learned from the Byzantines.
:lol:
Ashoka is the most legendary leader of India. Incredibly, for a ancient political leader, he has an almost saintly image.
Saint-Louis remains the greatest leader of all time.
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 01, 2009, 08:58:47 AM
Saint-Louis remains the greatest leader of all time.
Yeah that Crusade to Egypt will always be a model for glorious leadership.
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 01, 2009, 08:58:47 AM
Saint-Louis remains the greatest leader of all time.
If one defines "great" in terms of maximizing the number of your troops you can get to die ghastly deaths in a desert, then he is running a close second behind Saddam Huessein.
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2009, 08:52:32 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 01, 2009, 08:46:34 AM
Everything good he ever did he learned from the Byzantines.
:lol:
That's who really gets the shaft, the original Byzantines. :(
You can't expect people of the 1200 to understand Dysentery.
Martinus The Great will be the greatest ruler ever.
I retract my last post.
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 01, 2009, 08:58:47 AM
Saint-Louis remains the greatest leader of all time.
He has a City named after him that reflects that greatness.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg261.imageshack.us%2Fimg261%2F5458%2Feaststlouis1il.jpg&hash=9f16be8d43872b60aec57b1d644ec83d7e678052) (http://img261.imageshack.us/my.php?image=eaststlouis1il.jpg)
This is actually one of the nicest photos I found of the city. These building might have people living in them. Most pictures depict burnt out, abandoned, or collapsed buildings.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 01, 2009, 09:04:24 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 01, 2009, 08:58:47 AM
Saint-Louis remains the greatest leader of all time.
If one defines "great" in terms of maximizing the number of your troops you can get to die ghastly deaths in a desert, then he is running a close second behind Saddam Huessein.
Surely Rommel's gallavanting around the desert with an impossible strategic goal makes him a worthy contender?
I think, by all rights, William Henry Harrison is the best ever - at least elected ruler.
Quote from: PDH on June 01, 2009, 05:59:48 PM
I think, by all rights, William Henry Harrison is the best ever - at least elected ruler.
:D
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2009, 08:52:32 AM
Ashoka is the most legendary leader of India. Incredibly, for a ancient political leader, he has an almost saintly image.
I'm not sure how unusual that is. The Persian emperoers get a pretty good rep in the Old Testament, after all.
But Marti's post ignores the ruthless conquest of Kalinga, which led to, ostensibly, Ashoka's conversion.
Quote from: Faeelin on June 01, 2009, 06:00:55 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 01, 2009, 08:52:32 AM
Ashoka is the most legendary leader of India. Incredibly, for a ancient political leader, he has an almost saintly image.
I'm not sure how unusual that is. The Persian emperoers get a pretty good rep in the Old Testament, after all.
But Marti's post ignores the ruthless conquest of Kalinga, which led to, ostensibly, Ashoka's conversion.
Yup. Cyrus didn't have much to attone for, and he didn't go in for pussy-ass insane FUCK-REALITY Buddhism but rather life, sex, charity and family affirming Zoroastrianism.
I think the point is that Ashoka was an extremely liberal guy for being a leader in those times and nothing indicates otherwise so far.
Quote from: Martinus on May 31, 2009, 04:02:07 AM
People who played Civ4 may have heard of him, as well as others with an interest in Asian/Indian history. His wikipedia entry seems slightly fanboish but he seems like a really unique ruler, way beyond his time and culture (He apparently allowed female education, introduced religious tolerance, banned slavery, death penalty, and even regulated hunting, fishing and deforestation being apparently the first environmentalist).
Was he gay too? :P
no, but he felt guilty about it.