:blink: Fucked up. And it also kind of misses the purpose of crucifixion.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31014239/
QuoteSaudi beheads and crucifies murder convict
Islamic government sets example by crucifying headless body in public
updated 3:28 p.m. ET, Sat., May 30, 2009
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - Saudi authorities beheaded and crucified a man convicted of brutally slaying an 11-year-old boy and his father, the Interior Ministry announced.
According to the statement issued by the ministry Friday, shop owner Ahmed al-Anzi molested the boy and then strangled him with a length of rope. He then stabbed the boy's father to death when the man came looking for his son.
He hid both the bodies in his shop, the statement said, adding that al-Anzi threatened police with a knife when they came to arrest him.
Al-Anzi had previously been convicted of sodomy and owning pornographic films, a crime in conservative Saudi Arabia.
Crucifying the headless body in a public place is a way to set an example, according to the kingdom's strict interpretation of Islam. Normally those convicted of rape, murder and drug trafficking in Saudi Arabia are just beheaded.
According to an Associated Press count, Friday's execution brought the number to 35 beheading this year in the kingdom. In 2008, 102 people were beheaded.
Copyright 2009 The Associated Press.
Regarding your commentary on the crucifixion...from the CNN article on the same subject:
QuoteAmnesty International issued a statement deploring the punishment, with the group's Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui saying in a statement it is "horrific" that beheadings and crucifixions "still happen."
Even though the word "crucifixion" is used to describe the public display, the act has no connection to Christianity and the crucifixion of Jesus. The bodies are not displayed on crosses, Lamri Chirouf, who researches Saudi Arabian issues for Amnesty, explained.
That article also explains that, apparently, they sew the head back on before hoisting it up for show. Now that's weird.
QuoteChirouf said those crucified are beheaded first and then their heads are sewn back on their bodies. Then, the corpse is mounted on a pole or a tree.
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 30, 2009, 08:37:40 PM
Regarding your commentary on the crucifixion...from the CNN article on the same subject:
QuoteAmnesty International issued a statement deploring the punishment, with the group's Hassiba Hadj Sahraoui saying in a statement it is "horrific" that beheadings and crucifixions "still happen."
Even though the word "crucifixion" is used to describe the public display, the act has no connection to Christianity and the crucifixion of Jesus. The bodies are not displayed on crosses, Lamri Chirouf, who researches Saudi Arabian issues for Amnesty, explained.
That article also explains that, apparently, they sew the head back on before hoisting it up for show. Now that's weird.
QuoteChirouf said those crucified are beheaded first and then their heads are sewn back on their bodies. Then, the corpse is mounted on a pole or a tree.
Well my comment didn't have anything to do with Christianity. I was referring to the use of crucifixion to inflict a slow and agonizing deaths. Chopping their heads off before putting them on display defeats the purpose.
The purpose was stated in the article.
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 30, 2009, 09:22:45 PM
The purpose was stated in the article.
Their aim would be greatly enhanced if they actually used crucifixion to kill the victim rather than decapitation.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 30, 2009, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 30, 2009, 09:22:45 PM
The purpose was stated in the article.
Their aim would be greatly enhanced if they actually used crucifixion to kill the victim rather than decapitation.
But then the Saudi's would be criticized for treating people inhumanely. :mad:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 30, 2009, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on May 30, 2009, 09:22:45 PM
The purpose was stated in the article.
Their aim would be greatly enhanced if they actually used crucifixion to kill the victim rather than decapitation.
Not really. Dead is dead, and decapitation is good, clean and traditional.
Yep, the Saudis maybe backward terrorist funding bastards, but they sure have style.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fatlasshrugs2000.typepad.com%2Fatlas_shrugs%2Fimages%2F2008%2F02%2F14%2Fsaudi_law.jpg&hash=eb53f72b4a4e33fb3eed3eea567082c27a212781)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_n7RltmTdk-g%2FSAx_tvO1t2I%2FAAAAAAAADMM%2FrRkyqHM6bYo%2Fs400%2FSaudi%2Bexecutioner.jpg&hash=15f2ebf525ee9e74012b110a4ef40f6dc5064024)
It couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. :)
Incidentally, Germany still executed people by beheading during WWI.
Weren't the Scholl kids beheaded? They were in a movie I saw 20 years ago.
Sweden's last execution using behading with axe was in 1900. The last execution of any kind (beheading with guillotine) was in 1910.
Quote from: The Brain on May 31, 2009, 04:02:36 AM
Weren't the Scholl kids beheaded? They were in a movie I saw 20 years ago.
Sweden's last execution using behading with axe was in 1900. The last execution of any kind (beheading with guillotine) was in 1910.
Yeah you are right about the Scholls. I think they still used axe in 1910s though.
Sweden's last executioner, Albert Gustaf Dahlman, executed 6 people in 25 years. CAN I HAVE HIS JOB
We desperately need to take up the trade again.
RE: Kurd murdering 26-year old mother in an unprovoked attack.
It would be the very definition of honour killing.
Quote from: Slargos on May 31, 2009, 05:00:34 AM
We desperately need to take up the trade again.
RE: Kurd murdering 26-year old mother in an unprovoked attack.
It would be the very definition of honour killing.
Yeah because the best way to stop people from becoming savage and violent is to become as savage and violent as they are. All problems can be solved with violence!
Quote from: Martinus on May 31, 2009, 07:59:30 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 31, 2009, 05:00:34 AM
We desperately need to take up the trade again.
RE: Kurd murdering 26-year old mother in an unprovoked attack.
It would be the very definition of honour killing.
All problems can be solved with violence!
:yes:
Quote from: Martinus on May 31, 2009, 07:59:30 AM
Quote from: Slargos on May 31, 2009, 05:00:34 AM
We desperately need to take up the trade again.
RE: Kurd murdering 26-year old mother in an unprovoked attack.
It would be the very definition of honour killing.
Yeah because the best way to stop people from becoming savage and violent is to become as savage and violent as they are. All problems can be solved with violence!
State sanctioned execution is neither savage or violent.
Do you hold to that same standard with other punishments? Should we quit responding to kidnapping, for example, because to "kidnap" the criminal and throw him in jail is the exact same thing as what he did?
Oh my heart! It bleeds!
Quote from: Berkut on May 31, 2009, 10:59:28 AM
State sanctioned execution is neither savage or violent.
Are you seriously going to sign your name under that blanket statement? :blink:
Quote from: Martinus on May 31, 2009, 11:05:43 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 31, 2009, 10:59:28 AM
State sanctioned execution is neither savage or violent.
Are you seriously going to sign your name under that blanket statement? :blink:
Well, not really. I am sure there are some that cross the line, but not under the terms we are discussing (legitimate government executing someone reasonably convicted of a capital crime).
There, I just added all kinds of criteria.
I'll sign it.
I love state Executions. They are not savage and violent.
Hugs and Kisses,
Ed
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 31, 2009, 12:46:22 PM
I love state Executions. They are not savage and violent.
Ed
:huh: You are 100% homosexual.
Quote from: The Brain on May 31, 2009, 12:52:00 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 31, 2009, 12:46:22 PM
I love state Executions. They are not savage and violent.
Ed
:huh: You are 100% homosexual.
I will not sign that.
Quote from: Berkut on May 31, 2009, 12:41:30 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 31, 2009, 11:05:43 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 31, 2009, 10:59:28 AM
State sanctioned execution is neither savage or violent.
Are you seriously going to sign your name under that blanket statement? :blink:
Well, not really. I am sure there are some that cross the line, but not under the terms we are discussing (legitimate government executing someone reasonably convicted of a capital crime).
There, I just added all kinds of criteria.
You are discussing the justice. I am talking about barbarity. Having a convicted murderer drawn and quartered, while having boiling lead poured into his eye sockets would be barbaric under any standards, no matter his crime. It's not about the punishment fitting the crime, but about there being certain things civilized people don't do.
Personally, I am ambiguous on death penalty, but I am willing to accept it may be just in certain circumstances. However, it should be viewed as a way to remove the criminal from the society, not to make a bloody spectacle of it. It should be relatively painless, quick and not used as an entertainment.
Quote from: Martinus on May 31, 2009, 01:18:28 PM
Having a convicted murderer drawn and quartered, while having boiling lead poured into his eye sockets would be barbaric under any standards, no matter his crime. It's not about the punishment fitting the crime, but about there being certain things civilized people don't do.
And what if that convicted murderer was a serial killer that targeted gay men? :yeahright:
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 31, 2009, 01:42:12 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 31, 2009, 01:18:28 PM
Having a convicted murderer drawn and quartered, while having boiling lead poured into his eye sockets would be barbaric under any standards, no matter his crime. It's not about the punishment fitting the crime, but about there being certain things civilized people don't do.
And what if that convicted murderer was a serial killer that targeted gay men? :yeahright:
Hero of the Republic. Give that man a parade and a medal.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 31, 2009, 01:42:12 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 31, 2009, 01:18:28 PM
Having a convicted murderer drawn and quartered, while having boiling lead poured into his eye sockets would be barbaric under any standards, no matter his crime. It's not about the punishment fitting the crime, but about there being certain things civilized people don't do.
And what if that convicted murderer was a serial killer that targeted gay men? :yeahright:
Again it is not about retribution, but about not doing certain things.
Quote from: Martinus on May 31, 2009, 01:48:47 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 31, 2009, 01:42:12 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 31, 2009, 01:18:28 PM
Having a convicted murderer drawn and quartered, while having boiling lead poured into his eye sockets would be barbaric under any standards, no matter his crime. It's not about the punishment fitting the crime, but about there being certain things civilized people don't do.
And what if that convicted murderer was a serial killer that targeted gay men? :yeahright:
Again it is not about retribution, but about not doing certain things.
You're supposed to play along and go nuts. You're no fun. :(
Quote from: Martinus on May 31, 2009, 01:48:47 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 31, 2009, 01:42:12 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 31, 2009, 01:18:28 PM
Having a convicted murderer drawn and quartered, while having boiling lead poured into his eye sockets would be barbaric under any standards, no matter his crime. It's not about the punishment fitting the crime, but about there being certain things civilized people don't do.
And what if that convicted murderer was a serial killer that targeted gay men? :yeahright:
Again it is not about retribution, but about not doing certain things.
Well you're the expert.
Quote from: The Brain on May 31, 2009, 04:06:54 AM
Sweden's last executioner, Albert Gustaf Dahlman, executed 6 people in 25 years. CAN I HAVE HIS JOB
He can keep his job.
Six people in 25 YEARS?
And to top it all, they weren't armed, or resisting. They probably weren't terrorists, not even muslims!
I think executions should be in public, with food sold and toys for the kids.
Quote from: Martinus on May 31, 2009, 03:56:48 AM
Incidentally, Germany still executed people by beheading during WWI.
They decapitated people during WWII until 1945 using the Fallbeil, the German shorter version of the guillotine. Capital Punishment was abolished in West Germany in 1949.
It was one of the two main execution methods used by Nazi Germany for criminals and everyone else condemned by the People's Court and its bloodhound, Roland Freisler. Tens of thousands of people were decapitated during the Third Reich, most of them mere hours after the verdict. There were no appeals.
Johann Reichhart was the main executioner. He was a civil executioner, like the Olbrechts in France and the Pierrepoints in Britain. He was not a SS. Reportedly, he had so much job that he found ways to shorten the time of executions enough to be able to execute someone with the Fallbell in seven seconds from entry to exit. He cut (pun non-intended) through small things to save time (like instead of clicking the blade up and pushing a lever, instead just pulling it and letting it fall, or having assistants forcefully put and maintain the executed into the lunette, rather than lowering him (or her) using a levering platform).
Here is a picture from the Execution shed at Plötenzee Prison in Berlin around 1944. You may see the Fallbeil in front, and the gibbets for hanging people in the back.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.capitalpunishmentuk.org%2Fimage49.jpg&hash=faf64701037c685af27684b2973b04260939d7c5)
Quote from: The Brain on May 31, 2009, 04:06:54 AM
Sweden's last executioner, Albert Gustaf Dahlman, executed 6 people in 25 years. CAN I HAVE HIS JOB
Want a picture? Executing Anna Månsdotter for murder and incest.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2Fas_k13%2Fyngsjo_movie.jpg&hash=0610da32980624553780a43f270cd18496e4265b)
In fact, he botched his job. The blade went through the back of her head and through her jaw.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2Fas_k13%2Fbodel.gif&hash=eef3e0dc500831b60bdec76d1ade36155bb72c64)
Quote from: Siege on June 01, 2009, 05:50:23 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 31, 2009, 04:06:54 AM
Sweden's last executioner, Albert Gustaf Dahlman, executed 6 people in 25 years. CAN I HAVE HIS JOB
He can keep his job.
Six people in 25 YEARS?
And to top it all, they weren't armed, or resisting. They probably weren't terrorists, not even muslims!
Yeah, but all but one execution were made using the manly axe. Only the last one was with a guillotine, in 1910.
Man we just electrocuted them. Not as messy.
Drakken is a fanboi.
Quote from: Drakken on June 01, 2009, 06:07:02 PM
Quote from: Martinus on May 31, 2009, 03:56:48 AM
Incidentally, Germany still executed people by beheading during WWI.
They decapitated people during WWII until 1945 using the Fallbeil, the German shorter version of the guillotine. Capital Punishment was abolished in West Germany in 1949.
Why is amateurish Germany even mentioned here? France used the guillotine until 1981 (though the last beheading took place in 1977).
Frankly, things haven't been the same ever since. I miss madame Guillotine :(
Quote from: PDH on June 01, 2009, 06:30:45 PM
Drakken is a fanboi.
Executioners are badasses. :blush:
There was a show on arte or so about executioners a while back. They showed interviews with a U.S.ian executioner, a former French one and the guy who was in the squad executing Ceausescu. was pretty interesting.