Article here: http://scienceblogs.com/significantfigures/index.php/2013/08/19/peak-water-in-the-american-west/
Factual? Hyperbolic hysteria? Somewhere in between?
What says languish - and especially languishites living in the (allegedly) affected areas?
... okay, the article says "US West" not South.
Quote from: Jacob on August 21, 2013, 12:36:46 AM
... okay, the article says "US West" not South.
:lol: Was wondering. Though the last several years have been drought-prone, this past year has been one of the wettest for Georgia that I can recall.
The Colorado River basin has water issues film at 23.
As for the article, I don't see anything glaringly wrong with it, but I have never studied the issues terribly deeply--just a few articles here and there about the same problems, year-in, year-out.
The recommendations at the end (high efficiency washers, a cultural shift away from water-intensive lawn-care and farming) seem pretty reasonable to me.
It's the environment, Xiacob. Nobody gives a shit.
I take issue with the phrase "peak water" as it invokes the idea of peak oil a distinctly different concept. Water is a fairly renewable resource while petroleum is not. That's not merely a pedantic thing, it means that the solutions to the scarcity of these resources can be addressed in different ways. Only other gripe is the thing about Fracking which seems to be just another trendy bugbear at the moment.
That said, there is a serious issue of water shortages in the Southwest, probably due mostly to overpopulation and poor planning.
Forget it, Jake, it's Chinatown.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 21, 2013, 05:57:28 AM
It's the environment, Xiacob. Nobody gives a shit.
It is a pretty serious problem in Texas. I think it is going to be what eventually finally caps our growth.
It was so serious the Tea Party spent considerable political effort telling us that big government is not the solution to the water problems...because the private sector will solve it for profit or something.
"This drought relief program has been brought to you by Haliburton: Solving Challenges"
Quote from: Valmy on August 21, 2013, 08:22:42 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 21, 2013, 05:57:28 AM
It's the environment, Xiacob. Nobody gives a shit.
It is a pretty serious problem in Texas. I think it is going to be what eventually finally caps our growth.
It was so serious the Tea Party spent considerable political effort telling us that big government is not the solution to the water problems...because the private sector will solve it for profit or something.
I imagine it's harder for people to hand wave the water shortages then it is to hand wave the idea of global climate change.
I think it'd be nice if the southwest dropped the manicured lawns bit and generally went bank to just desert landscapes. Grass looks ridiculous and is super expensive to maintain out there.
Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2013, 09:21:27 AM
I think it'd be nice if the southwest dropped the manicured lawns bit and generally went bank to just desert landscapes. Grass looks ridiculous and is super expensive to maintain out there.
No shit. BUt the pressure to maintain one is immense when everybody else on the block has one <_<
Quote from: Valmy on August 21, 2013, 09:23:08 AM
No shit. BUt the pressure to maintain one is immense when everybody else on the block has one <_<
Also when the douchebags in the homeowners association get all pissy when you let it die over the summer. <_<
My grass is still mostly hanging on somehow this summer though. I haven't watered it at all except the part up by my bushes that get watered with the drip hose thing once a week.
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on August 21, 2013, 09:28:11 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 21, 2013, 09:23:08 AM
No shit. BUt the pressure to maintain one is immense when everybody else on the block has one <_<
Also when the douchebags in the homeowners association gets all pissy when you let it die over the summer. <_<
Yeah...WTF? Summer is my break from mowing people :contract:
I mean you have to spend money and work hard to get your damn grass to grow...so then you can spend money and work hard to cut it. Just pisses me off.
I read somewhere that LA has a program in place where they pay you to strip your lawn. I think that somebody put the link here.
QuoteYeah...WTF? Summer is my break from mowing people :contract:
I want to get some of that...I think it's rye grass. The stuff that is dormant over the summer, but really greens up over the winter. Fuck you HoA!
(Mine isn't actually all that bad. They don't really bother too much unless it gets really really nasty, which my yard never has, but even then, I think my neighbor was saying they just send you tips on xeriscaping and things like that at first. the one in my mom's neighborhood is one of those stereotypical intrusive asshole type HoAs though. They're absolutely ridiculous about the yards over the summer.)
I love riding my mower around. It gives me an hour's break from the mindcrushing family.
HOAs sound like a real pain; I'm glad I don't have to deal with one. I'm surprised they are as ubiquitous as they seem to be in the US.
A riding mower would be hilarious overkill for my yard. I could get a few laps in the front, but the house sits so far back and takes up so much of the lot, I'd have a bitch of a time driving it around in the back, dodging trees, a/c units, the slab, and the patio cover.
Quote from: Jacob on August 21, 2013, 09:38:09 AM
HOAs sound like a real pain; I'm glad I don't have to deal with one. I'm surprised they are as ubiquitous as they seem to be in the US.
I can't recall my parents ever talking about one. My grandmother does have one with her condo though.
Quote from: Habbaku on August 21, 2013, 12:58:15 AM
Quote from: Jacob on August 21, 2013, 12:36:46 AM
... okay, the article says "US West" not South.
:lol: Was wondering. Though the last several years have been drought-prone, this past year has been one of the wettest for Georgia that I can recall.
That notwithstanding, Florida is rattling sabers about restarting the Water Wars of the early 2000s with Georgia.
Quote from: Valmy on August 21, 2013, 09:23:08 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2013, 09:21:27 AM
I think it'd be nice if the southwest dropped the manicured lawns bit and generally went bank to just desert landscapes. Grass looks ridiculous and is super expensive to maintain out there.
No shit. BUt the pressure to maintain one is immense when everybody else on the block has one <_<
There's also practical critter issues with that as well; keeping it as a desert landscape invites greater potential for snakes, scorpions and tarantulas. They don't nest in grassy and manicured lawns; they like their sand and rocks.
So fuck that shit. I lived out there, my lawn would look like the fucking Rose Bowl before kickoff.
Have not read the article, but there has been many similar articles. And while the situation is worse in the southwest, the southeast has similar problems. TN, AL, GA fight over the same river for example.
My solution would be to get rid of the people, that is the problem right? :)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 21, 2013, 10:06:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 21, 2013, 09:23:08 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2013, 09:21:27 AM
I think it'd be nice if the southwest dropped the manicured lawns bit and generally went bank to just desert landscapes. Grass looks ridiculous and is super expensive to maintain out there.
No shit. BUt the pressure to maintain one is immense when everybody else on the block has one <_<
There's also practical critter issues with that as well; keeping it as a desert landscape invites greater potential for snakes, scorpions and tarantulas. They don't nest in grassy and manicured lawns; they like their sand and rocks.
So fuck that shit. I lived out there, my lawn would look like the fucking Rose Bowl before kickoff.
My mother has had her desert landscape for nearly 13 years now. So far no incidents.
Seems the best thing then is to live in places that are naturally fit for human habitation.
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 21, 2013, 10:23:22 AM
Seems the best thing then is to live in places that are naturally fit for human habitation.
So you want a die back?
Quote from: Jacob on August 21, 2013, 09:38:09 AM
HOAs sound like a real pain; I'm glad I don't have to deal with one. I'm surprised they are as ubiquitous as they seem to be in the US.
As I've said before, it's the ultimate expression of the American Way, which is replacing public benevolence with private tyranny.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 21, 2013, 10:06:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 21, 2013, 09:23:08 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2013, 09:21:27 AM
I think it'd be nice if the southwest dropped the manicured lawns bit and generally went bank to just desert landscapes. Grass looks ridiculous and is super expensive to maintain out there.
No shit. BUt the pressure to maintain one is immense when everybody else on the block has one <_<
There's also practical critter issues with that as well; keeping it as a desert landscape invites greater potential for snakes, scorpions and tarantulas. They don't nest in grassy and manicured lawns; they like their sand and rocks.
Can scorpions, snakes, and tarantulas nest in a paved lot?
Quote from: Ideologue on August 21, 2013, 10:53:24 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 21, 2013, 10:06:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 21, 2013, 09:23:08 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2013, 09:21:27 AM
I think it'd be nice if the southwest dropped the manicured lawns bit and generally went bank to just desert landscapes. Grass looks ridiculous and is super expensive to maintain out there.
No shit. BUt the pressure to maintain one is immense when everybody else on the block has one <_<
There's also practical critter issues with that as well; keeping it as a desert landscape invites greater potential for snakes, scorpions and tarantulas. They don't nest in grassy and manicured lawns; they like their sand and rocks.
Can scorpions, snakes, and tarantulas nest in a paved lot?
That's ideally what I want. A lawn of concrete. :cool:
I mentioned before that Vegas has sensible lawns for the desert: gravel, rocks, and cacti.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 21, 2013, 11:04:06 AM
I mentioned before that Vegas has sensible lawns for the desert: gravel, rocks, and cacti.
Yeah that's the kind of desert landscaping that I'm talking about.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthe-war-diaries.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F08%2FP8021465.jpg&hash=51019fe8a73773714729ed7d91fad0b5af93375c)
Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2013, 10:35:06 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 21, 2013, 10:23:22 AM
Seems the best thing then is to live in places that are naturally fit for human habitation.
So you want a die back?
Nah, just no interest in living in Arizona or west Texas.
I would think that desalination plants are a part of the solution for some of the water shortages, in California especially. And why haven't any been built yet? Other nations use them, like Saudi Arabia.
California imports their power too. I doubt there's enough juice for them.
Another solution would be not having gajillions of people in an arid region. LA, Las Vegas, I'm looking at you...
Quote from: KRonn on August 21, 2013, 01:49:05 PM
I would think that desalination plants are a part of the solution for some of the water shortages, in California especially. And why haven't any been built yet? Other nations use them, like Saudi Arabia.
Texas presently has about 100 desalination plants. Probably going to need alot more.
Quote from: The Larch on August 21, 2013, 02:02:03 PM
Another solution would be not having gajillions of people in an arid region. LA, Las Vegas, I'm looking at you...
Why?
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 21, 2013, 01:59:14 PM
California imports their power too. I doubt there's enough juice for them.
That's not California's fault.
Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2013, 02:19:44 PM
Quote from: The Larch on August 21, 2013, 02:02:03 PM
Another solution would be not having gajillions of people in an arid region. LA, Las Vegas, I'm looking at you...
Why?
Because you need to bring lots of water and other resources from somewhere else at a huge expense? LA grew so big by raping water resources from Eastern California.
Quote from: The Larch on August 21, 2013, 02:32:57 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2013, 02:19:44 PM
Quote from: The Larch on August 21, 2013, 02:02:03 PM
Another solution would be not having gajillions of people in an arid region. LA, Las Vegas, I'm looking at you...
Why?
Because you need to bring lots of water and other resources from somewhere else at a huge expense? LA grew so big by raping water resources from Eastern California.
Actually I believe Arizona was what was mostly raped with a siphoning of the Colorado River. Palm Springs isn't exactly an oasis. :P
Not sure how that's a net negative for California.
Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2013, 02:50:40 PM
Quote from: The Larch on August 21, 2013, 02:32:57 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2013, 02:19:44 PM
Quote from: The Larch on August 21, 2013, 02:02:03 PM
Another solution would be not having gajillions of people in an arid region. LA, Las Vegas, I'm looking at you...
Why?
Because you need to bring lots of water and other resources from somewhere else at a huge expense? LA grew so big by raping water resources from Eastern California.
Actually I believe Arizona was what was mostly raped with a siphoning of the Colorado River. Palm Springs isn't exactly an oasis. :P
Not sure how that's a net negative for California.
I was thinking mostly about the California Water Wars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Water_Wars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Water_Wars)) that ruined the Owens Valley area. Chinatown, which I quoted earlier, is partly based on them.
I would remove any and all invasive plants and animals in the southwest.
That would include lawns, crops, farm animals and people (not native americans, they were there before the evil white man). :)
That's a lot of Mexicans to ethnically cleanse vato.
Where would you take the farm animals?
Quote from: The Larch on August 21, 2013, 02:53:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2013, 02:50:40 PM
Quote from: The Larch on August 21, 2013, 02:32:57 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2013, 02:19:44 PM
Quote from: The Larch on August 21, 2013, 02:02:03 PM
Another solution would be not having gajillions of people in an arid region. LA, Las Vegas, I'm looking at you...
Why?
Because you need to bring lots of water and other resources from somewhere else at a huge expense? LA grew so big by raping water resources from Eastern California.
Actually I believe Arizona was what was mostly raped with a siphoning of the Colorado River. Palm Springs isn't exactly an oasis. :P
Not sure how that's a net negative for California.
I was thinking mostly about the California Water Wars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Water_Wars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Water_Wars)) that ruined the Owens Valley area. Chinatown, which I quoted earlier, is partly based on them.
Ah gotcha. Well on an importance scale, I'd pick LA over Owens Valley any day.
Quote from: The Brain on August 21, 2013, 03:08:09 PM
Where would you take the farm animals?
To areas that can support them. Is there plenty of water and farm land in Sweden?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 21, 2013, 03:08:06 PM
That's a lot of Mexicans to ethnically cleanse vato.
And your point is?
Quote from: lustindarkness on August 21, 2013, 03:11:11 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 21, 2013, 03:08:09 PM
Where would you take the farm animals?
To areas that can support them. Is there plenty of water and farm land in Sweden?
We don't suffer from water or land insecurity.
I got another idea that could help, we could take all the ice from the north, them canadians don't need it.
Read the title, was about to comment on the obscene amount of rain that Arkansas has received, along the lines of "haha, motherfuckers, if this keeps up I'm going to the King Saud of water," but then I saw that the article is talking about the desert.
As long as Colorado/Oklahoma doesn't realize the Arkansas River is full of water, the coming water shortages aren't going to be shit for me. The Arkansas River is like a mile from my house and I can throw a rock into a tributary, and both of those fuckers flood every time the sky is cloudy. I mean, fuck, this time last week I was stacking up sandbags to keep water out of my house. <_<
Quote from: lustindarkness on August 21, 2013, 03:15:18 PM
I got another idea that could help, we could take all the ice from the north, them canadians don't need it.
There was some scheme to do that back in the 80s. Some guy was going to float icebergs down into the LA harbour. As I recall, it never got the necessary regulatory approvals from either government.
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 26, 2013, 11:09:47 AM
Quote from: lustindarkness on August 21, 2013, 03:15:18 PM
I got another idea that could help, we could take all the ice from the north, them canadians don't need it.
There was some scheme to do that back in the 80s. Some guy was going to float icebergs down into the LA harbour. As I recall, it never got the necessary regulatory approvals from either government.
I was not real serious, but I wonder if there could be some realistic way for buying ice from up north and floating it down south. :hmm:
We can't even agree to build an Oil Pipeline. You think we can agree on building a water pipeline?
Quote from: lustindarkness on August 26, 2013, 11:44:54 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 26, 2013, 11:09:47 AM
Quote from: lustindarkness on August 21, 2013, 03:15:18 PM
I got another idea that could help, we could take all the ice from the north, them canadians don't need it.
There was some scheme to do that back in the 80s. Some guy was going to float icebergs down into the LA harbour. As I recall, it never got the necessary regulatory approvals from either government.
I was not real serious, but I wonder if there could be some realistic way for buying ice from up north and floating it down south. :hmm:
As I recall it now, nobody wanted to take the risk that the icebergs might detach from the tugs taking it down. Having them floating in busy shipping lanes wouldnt make anyone happy. Also I dont think they thought there way through how to get the the ice water onto shore in an economic manner. The plan was to envelope the ice in some kind of sheeting and then pump the water to shore as it melted. But you would have to get close to shore for that to occur and that was a problem.
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 26, 2013, 12:03:57 PM
We can't even agree to build an Oil Pipeline. You think we can agree on building a water pipeline?
That has also been proposed and rejected. Also in the 80s iirc. Nobody here wants to give up their water resources so that Americans can live in a desert.
Why would we care what Canadians want?
But as far as I'm concerned, people should not live in the desert. For all I care, we could recycle as much as we can from the cities in the southwest and then turn off the water.
The Saudis did that once with an iceberg.
Must not be cost-effective, because I never read about them doing it again.
Quote from: lustindarkness on August 26, 2013, 12:14:00 PM
Why would we care what Canadians want?
Its up to you. Its our water so if you ignore our concerns then you will get from us exactly what you are currently getting. :)
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 26, 2013, 12:54:15 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on August 26, 2013, 12:14:00 PM
Why would we care what Canadians want?
Its up to you. Its our water so if you ignore our concerns then you will get from us exactly what you are currently getting. :)
Ugh, more Canadians. :yucky:
Quote from: lustindarkness on August 26, 2013, 12:58:21 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 26, 2013, 12:54:15 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on August 26, 2013, 12:14:00 PM
Why would we care what Canadians want?
Its up to you. Its our water so if you ignore our concerns then you will get from us exactly what you are currently getting. :)
Ugh, more Canadians. :yucky:
:D