There is a somewhat interesting EUII v. EUIII thread over at P'dox where Johan makes his case for EUIII being much more historical than EUII.
Johan's first post is #5.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=405920
So, wasn't this already a known? He has often said negative things about eu2 when others make negative comments about eu3.
Of course this line cracked me up as P'dox has always failed shamefully on this and if it really is at the core of their game design, then they suck.
QuoteGrats, you understand our vision and how I view gameplay. "modelling the root causes of things" is the keyword here.
What shocks me is the line "I just get so tired of the usual "eu2 was so great". Its a very overrated game that, a) did not sell well".
I thought EU2 was the game that put Paradox on the map. While I bet that HOI and HOI2 sold more copies, I'm surprised if anything else sold more than EU2 (until EU3 came along).
I think I remember him saying EU2 sold fewer than EU1.
Which belies the sales better = better argument. Eu1 was certainly not better, although IGC Eu1 was fun.
Also, I always wondered if it was an issue with distributors. I'd seen lots of EU1 at places like EB games but almost never saw EU2 getting any shelf space.
I had to buy my copy from a specialized little game shop in Amsterdam. :lol:
I hope Johan got banned for that.
What do you expect Johan to say? :lol:
"EU2 is a better game than EU3. Oh btw EU2 is hella cheap right now. Buy that instead of EU3 which costs more!"
He's not *just* a programmer at P'dox. ^_^
EU3 IS better you know.
Quote from: Tamas on May 29, 2009, 07:20:36 AM
EU3 IS better you know.
I actually agree, but I mean even if it wasn't Johan isn't going to say that.
That's true.
It's like rock singers will always say their newest album is the best, even if they know it's a piece of shit.
You will never, ever, hear a rock singer say, "Our new album is OK. It's not half as good as anything we've done before. It could be better."
Quote from: Caliga on May 29, 2009, 06:55:05 AM
What do you expect Johan to say? :lol:
"EU2 is a better game than EU3. Oh btw EU2 is hella cheap right now. Buy that instead of EU3 which costs more!"
He's not *just* a programmer at P'dox. ^_^
Of course, if eu2 sales were so bad and eu3 sales have been good/great, who cares? No particular need to decry one's earlier work.
If EU2 sales were so horrid why the hell did he make an EU3?
I thought the whole point of sequels was to take advantage of the success of the previous versions not to reinforce failures the owner of the company hates.
But then this is Paradox.
Quote from: Valmy on May 29, 2009, 10:02:52 AM
If EU2 sales were so horrid why the hell did he make an EU3?
I thought the whole point of sequels was to take advantage of the success of the previous versions not to reinforce failures the owner of the company hates.
But then this is Paradox.
:D
I am remembering correctly that one of the major problems with EU2 sales is that Paradox was having all kinds of problems with their then distributor Strategy First (at least I think that was the name of the distributor)?
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 29, 2009, 10:47:30 AM
Strategy First (at least I think that was the name of the distributor)?
Yeah that was the North American one.
SF is awesome!
Quote from: Grey Fox on May 29, 2009, 11:01:08 AM
SF is awesome!
do you work with them now and are posting on company time?
All the EU's are beautiful snowflakes in my book.
Quote from: The Brain on May 29, 2009, 03:42:35 PM
All the EU's are beautiful snowflakes in my book.
Snowflakes melt unless you keep them on ice.
Quote from: garbon on May 29, 2009, 03:43:53 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 29, 2009, 03:42:35 PM
All the EU's are beautiful snowflakes in my book.
Snowflakes melt unless you keep them on ice.
I'm a physicist.
Quote from: garbon on May 29, 2009, 03:43:53 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 29, 2009, 03:42:35 PM
All the EU's are beautiful snowflakes in my book.
Snowflakes melt unless you keep them on ice.
Not really. I had several quadrillion snowflakes in my front yard for 6 months...
Quote from: Barrister on May 29, 2009, 03:48:16 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 29, 2009, 03:43:53 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 29, 2009, 03:42:35 PM
All the EU's are beautiful snowflakes in my book.
Snowflakes melt unless you keep them on ice.
Not really. I had several quadrillion snowflakes in my front yard for 6 months...
Are we still talking about EU? :unsure:
Quote from: Barrister on May 29, 2009, 03:48:16 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 29, 2009, 03:43:53 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 29, 2009, 03:42:35 PM
All the EU's are beautiful snowflakes in my book.
Snowflakes melt unless you keep them on ice.
Not really. I had several quadrillion snowflakes in my front yard for 6 months...
Yes, you dont need to point out that your front lawn is frozen 6 months of the year.
Quote from: The Brain on May 29, 2009, 03:54:02 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 29, 2009, 03:48:16 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 29, 2009, 03:43:53 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 29, 2009, 03:42:35 PM
All the EU's are beautiful snowflakes in my book.
Snowflakes melt unless you keep them on ice.
Not really. I had several quadrillion snowflakes in my front yard for 6 months...
Are we still talking about EU? :unsure:
Yukon Universalis.
Quote from: Ed Anger on May 29, 2009, 04:08:07 PM
Yukon Universalis.
Yukon Trail was pretty bad. Although I did like the idea of picking up a guy in town and taking him out into the wilderness... :shifty:
Quote from: Josephus on May 29, 2009, 08:00:03 AM
That's true.
It's like rock singers will always say their newest album is the best, even if they know it's a piece of shit.
You will never, ever, hear a rock singer say, "Our new album is OK. It's not half as good as anything we've done before. It could be better."
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.musicroom.fr%2Fimages%2Fcatalogue%2Ffullsize%2FAM984379.jpg&hash=2fb596daf51749f03f52cb76565592e06d2bae8e)
Quote from: Valmy on May 29, 2009, 10:02:52 AM
If EU2 sales were so horrid why the hell did he make an EU3?
I thought the whole point of sequels was to take advantage of the success of the previous versions not to reinforce failures the owner of the company hates.
But then this is Paradox.
Perhaps EU "3" was already in development when they decided they needed money quicker and therefore released EU2 first, which from a game engine standpoint is practically identical to EU1 and thus may not have been a whole lot of effort to produce?
Quote from: Caliga on May 29, 2009, 09:14:03 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 29, 2009, 10:02:52 AM
If EU2 sales were so horrid why the hell did he make an EU3?
I thought the whole point of sequels was to take advantage of the success of the previous versions not to reinforce failures the owner of the company hates.
But then this is Paradox.
Perhaps EU "3" was already in development when they decided they needed money quicker and therefore released EU2 first, which from a game engine standpoint is practically identical to EU1 and thus may not have been a whole lot of effort to produce?
This seems unlikely since EU3 required technology not yet produced.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 29, 2009, 05:44:36 AM
I hope Johan got banned for that.
Yeah, dissing Paradox games like that. :P
Quote from: Josephus on May 29, 2009, 08:00:03 AM
That's true.
It's like rock singers will always say their newest album is the best, even if they know it's a piece of shit.
You will never, ever, hear a rock singer say, "Our new album is OK. It's not half as good as anything we've done before. It could be better."
I dunno. Its not just marketing, often they do genuinly believe that- they've become interested in a sort of music different to that which made them big and so produced something in that direction. Much to the anger of their fans.
And then of course there's the obvious that if you've worked your arse off on it very recently you will be more proud of it.
Johan, I agree with you. Your games are shit.
EUII blows, 2DMaps FTL.
I support Johan against all haters. People think it's all glamour in the games business but it's also a lot of hard honest work.
I've been meaning to get round to buying EU3 (with the IN expansion). Does the complete pack contain IN already installed??
As for EU2 putting Paradox on the map, well my first Paradox game was HoI1. I'd lurked those forums since getting that, though I didn't join until recently.
Quote from: Palisadoes on June 06, 2009, 07:12:00 AM
I've been meaning to get round to buying EU3 (with the IN expansion). Does the complete pack contain IN already installed??
As for EU2 putting Paradox on the map, well my first Paradox game was HoI1. I'd lurked those forums since getting that, though I didn't join until recently.
EU3 Complete includes both NA and IN.
Quote from: Palisadoes on June 06, 2009, 07:12:00 AM
my first Paradox game was HoI1
Just FYI, you are part of the group who ruined Paradox.
:huh:
Quote from: Caliga on June 09, 2009, 12:18:22 PM
:huh:
Paradox should have never made a WW2 game. There are people who love history, and there are people who wank on german uniforms and crazy balkan maps. The latter should have been kept out of the Paradox community.
Eu2 is clearly superior to Eu3 in one capacity: MP.
Quote from: Slargos on June 09, 2009, 01:02:15 PM
Eu2 is clearly superior to Eu3 in one capacity: MP.
Sure because repeated play can yield more benefits due to getting to know the historical leaders and stuff.
Quote from: Tamas on June 09, 2009, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 09, 2009, 12:18:22 PM
:huh:
Paradox should have never made a WW2 game. There are people who love history, and there are people who wank on german uniforms and crazy balkan maps. The latter should have been kept out of the Paradox community.
with EU2, I think Paradox was stuck with the Balkantards anyway; as well, Pdox has to bear some moral responsibility for the creation of internet Byzanteens.
a few thousand Sturmfrunters didn't spoil the broth. :P
Quote from: saskganesh on June 09, 2009, 01:13:31 PM
Quote from: Tamas on June 09, 2009, 12:54:23 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 09, 2009, 12:18:22 PM
:huh:
Paradox should have never made a WW2 game. There are people who love history, and there are people who wank on german uniforms and crazy balkan maps. The latter should have been kept out of the Paradox community.
with EU2, I think Paradox was stuck with the Balkantards anyway; as well, Pdox has to bear some moral responsibility for the creation of internet Byzanteens.
a few thousand Sturmfrunters didn't spoil the broth. :P
I'll take a Byzanteen over a sturmfrunter any day of the week.
sure, your soup to drink.
the byzanteens are the lucky ones: they get to celebrate genocide ... and nobody cares
"oh, Bulgaroctonus, you are soo manly." :P
Quote from: saskganesh on June 09, 2009, 01:21:19 PM
sure, your soup to drink.
the byzanteens are the lucky ones: they get to celebrate genocide ... and nobody cares
"oh, Bulgaroctonus, you are soo manly." :P
He blinded an army not a civilian population. Heck back in those days if you didn't do like Richard I and murder all your captives people thought you were getting soft.
what do you mean "back in those days" ?
That is what Neil has been preaching for the last six years.. :P
Quote from: saskganesh on June 09, 2009, 01:21:19 PM
sure, your soup to drink.
the byzanteens are the lucky ones: they get to celebrate genocide ... and nobody cares
"oh, Bulgaroctonus, you are soo manly." :P
It was a different time with different standards. -_-
Nobody blames the Roman Empire fanbois with genocide against Carthaginians do they?
Quote from: Valmy on June 09, 2009, 01:43:55 PM
Quote from: saskganesh on June 09, 2009, 01:21:19 PM
sure, your soup to drink.
the byzanteens are the lucky ones: they get to celebrate genocide ... and nobody cares
"oh, Bulgaroctonus, you are soo manly." :P
He blinded an army not a civilian population.
I'm sure he never touched the hair of a single civilian.
Quote from: Barrister on June 09, 2009, 03:12:02 PM
Quote from: saskganesh on June 09, 2009, 01:21:19 PM
sure, your soup to drink.
the byzanteens are the lucky ones: they get to celebrate genocide ... and nobody cares
"oh, Bulgaroctonus, you are soo manly." :P
It was a different time with different standards. -_-
Nobody blames the Roman Empire fanbois with genocide against Carthaginians do they?
shh.
Quote from: Tamas on June 09, 2009, 11:56:04 AM
Quote from: Palisadoes on June 06, 2009, 07:12:00 AM
my first Paradox game was HoI1
Just FYI, you are part of the group who ruined Paradox.
I really should've thought about a community I had never even heard of before buying that game... :rolleyes:
Actually you should have just tried to be a decent person. Baby steps. :hug:
Quote from: Barrister on June 09, 2009, 03:12:02 PM
Quote from: saskganesh on June 09, 2009, 01:21:19 PM
sure, your soup to drink.
the byzanteens are the lucky ones: they get to celebrate genocide ... and nobody cares
"oh, Bulgaroctonus, you are soo manly." :P
It was a different time with different standards. -_-
Nobody blames the Roman Empire fanbois with genocide against Carthaginians do they?
And the standards of the 1940s clearly supported genocide. You should know better than anyone.
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2009, 08:18:38 PM
Actually you should have just tried to be a decent person. Baby steps. :hug:
Die in a fire, you Russian piece of shit.
Quote from: Neil on June 09, 2009, 08:19:28 PM
Die in a fire, you Russian piece of shit.
Actually, I'm doing it in honor of Reagan. :)
You're going to set yourself on fire to honor Reagan? :huh:
Quote from: dps on June 09, 2009, 09:12:36 PM
You're going to set yourself on fire to honor Reagan? :huh:
I don't care about the motive just the results.
Quote from: Valmy on June 09, 2009, 01:43:55 PM
Quote from: saskganesh on June 09, 2009, 01:21:19 PM
sure, your soup to drink.
the byzanteens are the lucky ones: they get to celebrate genocide ... and nobody cares
"oh, Bulgaroctonus, you are soo manly." :P
He blinded an army not a civilian population. Heck back in those days if you didn't do like Richard I and murder all your captives people thought you were getting soft.
FoxNews would have had a field day with the liberal ways of Bulgaroctonus.
Quote from: Tamas on June 09, 2009, 12:54:23 PM
Paradox should have never made a WW2 game. There are people who love history, and there are people who wank on german uniforms and crazy balkan maps. The latter should have been kept out of the Paradox community.
I agree that the Balkan fanatics were in before HoI, but the latter game brought on more wackiness.
EU3 seems fun. Pretty much what I wanted in EU2, but I find myself not focusing enough. If I had gotten it back when I was living by myself, only having some lectures every week that I had to attend, perhaps things would have been different. EU has never been a very good
casual game.
Quote from: garbon on June 09, 2009, 08:18:38 PM
Actually you should have just tried to be a decent person. Baby steps. :hug:
Is your signature about Gary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Glitter)?
Quote from: saskganesh on June 09, 2009, 04:24:21 PM
I'm sure he never touched the hair of a single civilian.
He would never do such a thing. Basil II was a gentleman and humanitarian.
Quote from: Syt on June 09, 2009, 11:39:59 PM
FoxNews would have had a field day with the liberal ways of Bulgaroctonus.
Basil II Bulgaroctonus: soft on imperial security? Next after this.