http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/the_greatest_food_human_history_5bikMtD5ZJ50x1KMCyGfTJ
QuoteWhat is "the cheapest, most nutritious and bountiful food that has ever existed in human history" Hint: It has 390 calories. It contains 23g, or half a daily serving, of protein, plus 7% of daily fiber, 20% of daily calcium and so on.
Also, you can get it in 14,000 locations in the US and it usually costs $1. Presenting one of the unsung wonders of modern life, the McDonald's McDouble cheeseburger.
The argument above was made by a commenter on the Freakonomics blog run by economics writer Stephen Dubner and professor Steven Leavitt, who co-wrote the million-selling books on the hidden side of everything.
Dubner mischievously built an episode of his highly amusing weekly podcast around the debate. Many huffy back-to-the-earth types wrote in to suggest the alternative meal of boiled lentils. Great idea. Now go open a restaurant called McBoiled Lentils and see how many customers line up.
But we all know fast food makes us fat, right? Not necessarily. People who eat out tend to eat less at home that day in partial compensation; the net gain, according to a 2008 study out of Berkeley and Northwestern, is only about 24 calories a day.
The outraged replies to the notion of McDouble supremacy — if it's not the cheapest, most nutritious and most bountiful food in human history, it has to be pretty close — comes from the usual coalition of class snobs, locavore foodies and militant anti-corporate types. I say usual because these people are forever proclaiming their support for the poor and for higher minimum wages that would supposedly benefit McDonald's workers. But they're completely heartless when it comes to the other side of the equation: cost.
Driving up McDonald's wage costs would drive up the price of burgers for millions of poor people. "So what?" say activists. Maybe that'll drive people to farmers markets.
For the average poor person, it isn't a great option to take a trip to the farmers market to puzzle over esoteric lefty-foodie codes. (Is sustainable better than organic? What if I have to choose between fair trade and cruelty-free?) Produce may seem cheap to environmentally aware blond moms who spend $300 on their highlights every month, but if your object is to fill your belly, it is hugely expensive per calorie.
Junk food costs as little as $1.76 per 1,000 calories, whereas fresh veggies and the like cost more than 10 times as much, found a 2007 University of Washington survey for the Journal of the American Dietetic Association. A 2,000-calorie day of meals would, if you stuck strictly to the good-for-you stuff, cost $36.32, said the study's lead author, Adam Drewnowski.
"Not only are the empty calories cheaper," he reported, "but the healthy foods are becoming more and more expensive. Vegetables and fruits are rapidly becoming luxury goods." Where else but McDonald's can poor people obtain so many calories per dollar?
And as for organic — the Abercrombie and Fitch jeans of food — if you have to check the price, you can't afford it. (Not that it has any health benefits, as last year's huge Stanford meta-study showed.)
Moreover, produce takes more time to prepare and spoils quickly, two more factors that effectively drive up the cost. Any time you're spending peeling vegetables is time you aren't spending on the job.
Activists will go anywhere to wave the banner of caring and plant their flagpole of social justice right in the foot of the working class.
Forcing New Yorkers to pay unnecessary high prices, they've managed to keep Walmart out of the five boroughs of New York City. The City Council of Washington, DC, recently passed a bill, designed specifically to punish only Walmart, which would mandate a super-minimum wage to benefit a small number of employees while effectively placing a surtax on every Walmart shopper. (Walmart responded by saying it was canceling plans for three stores. The bill may yet be vetoed by Mayor Vincent Gray.)
Fuel prices, like food prices, disproportionately hit the poor, so do-gooders do everything they can to raise energy costs by blocking new fuel sources like the Keystone XL pipelines and fracking. And they are always up for higher gasoline taxes and regulating coal-burning energy plants to death.
If the macrobiotic Marxists had their way, of course, there'd be no McDonald's, Walmart or Exxon, because they have visions of an ideal world in which everybody bikes to work with a handwoven backpack from Etsy that contains a lunch grown in the neighborhood collective.
That's not going to work for the average person, but who cares if they go hungry because they can't afford a burger anymore? Let them eat kale!
Farmers Markets are expensive.
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on July 29, 2013, 07:19:01 AM
Farmers Markets are expensive.
And old people crash through them.
If a significant portion of the population needs to decide what they want to eat based on a Calorie/$ ratio, then maybe that's an indictment of our society right there.
Meanwhile, in Canada......
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/07/25/heteronormative-burger-family-no-threat-to-lgbt-rights-tribunal-says-after-receiving-outrageous-complaint/
Quote[Following a bizarre correspondence with an anonymous letter-writer, Ontario's human rights tribunal has strongly dismissed claims that the A&W fast food chain's Burger Family poses a threat to the self-respect of the LGBT community.
The complaint — filed last month by a man posing as a radical lesbian feminist — demanded $50,000 from the restaurant chain, alleging that its trademark Papa, Mama, Grandpa and Teen burgers were "an attack on my womyn identity."
"The whole heteronormative, phallocentric marketing scheme of A&W is highly degrading to non-tradition families," reads the complaint filed to the tribunal last month.
"The level of humiliation and degradation I felt exceeded that which I felt when I was raped."
Calling it "outrageous" and "vexatious," the human rights tribunal threw out the application earlier this month over concerns regarding the veracity of the complainant's story.
Questions over the legitimacy of the claim came after learning the pseudonym used on the application, Gloria Ironbox, was the same as a parodied feminist on the adult cartoon series Family Guy.
In further correspondence, the complainant revealed himself as a man, but urged the tribunal to continue to process his complaint or risk denying his right to expression.
While conceding that his complaint was "ridiculous," the complainant said it was no more ridiculous than a recent human rights tribunal ruling in B.C. that saw a comedian Guy Earle fined $15,000 after directing a barrage of slurs toward a lesbian couple at a restaurant in 2011.
In the seven-page document posted on the Can-LII website, associate chair David Wright slammed the complaint as attempting to abuse the system.
"I understand his argument to be that the Tribunal should process the Application so that he can demonstrate what he sees as flaws in the human rights system in Canada," Mr. Wright wrote in the July 19 decision. "
A Canadian human rights activist took no issue with the A&W menu, choosing instead to criticize the anonymous complainant for ridiculing the tribunal system.
"This is doing a disservice to the queer community by undermining genuine concerns regarding heteronormativity," said Dara Parker, executive director of the B.C. LGBT advocacy group, Qmunity.
Spokespersons at the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario and A&W were not immediately available for comment.
Guess she's not going to try their chili cheese dogs then.
Very real concerns about heteronormativity? Fuck I hate fags.
We are all the same.
QuoteJunk food costs as little as $1.76 per 1,000 calories, whereas fresh veggies and the like cost more than 10 times as much, found a 2007 University of Washington survey for the Journal of the American Dietetic Association.
QuoteFuel prices, like food prices, disproportionately hit the poor, so do-gooders do everything they can to raise energy costs by blocking new fuel sources like the Keystone XL pipelines and fracking. And they are always up for higher gasoline taxes and regulating coal-burning energy plants to death.
I didn't know Ed was on AEI's daily email list.
I'm shocked Seedy missed the most mind numbing line:
QuoteMoreover, produce takes more time to prepare and spoils quickly, two more factors that effectively drive up the cost. Any time you're spending peeling vegetables is time you aren't spending on the job.
BACK TO WORK SLAVES!
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 29, 2013, 07:58:51 AM
QuoteJunk food costs as little as $1.76 per 1,000 calories, whereas fresh veggies and the like cost more than 10 times as much, found a 2007 University of Washington survey for the Journal of the American Dietetic Association.
QuoteFuel prices, like food prices, disproportionately hit the poor, so do-gooders do everything they can to raise energy costs by blocking new fuel sources like the Keystone XL pipelines and fracking. And they are always up for higher gasoline taxes and regulating coal-burning energy plants to death.
I didn't know Ed was on AEI's daily email list.
Sorry, they are against farm subsidies. Which support the Ed Anger experience.
Doesn't everyone know that yes to successfully wean people off junk, we're going to need easy and affordable healthy options?
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 08:06:36 AM
Doesn't everyone know that yes to successfully wean people off junk, we're going to need easy and affordable healthy options?
Fuck the poor. They don't want to eat $3 bags of Cheetos from the corner Korean-owned convenience store in the 'hood, they don't have to. ITS ABOUT CHOICE IN AMERICA
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 08:06:36 AM
Doesn't everyone know that yes to successfully wean people off junk, we're going to need easy and affordable healthy options?
...that taste good.
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 29, 2013, 08:03:49 AM
I'm shocked Seedy missed the most mind numbing line:
QuoteMoreover, produce takes more time to prepare and spoils quickly, two more factors that effectively drive up the cost. Any time you're spending peeling vegetables is time you aren't spending on the job.
BACK TO WORK SLAVES!
Fuck this society. Neil is right, the wrong team won the Cold War.
Quote from: derspiess on July 29, 2013, 08:12:42 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 08:06:36 AM
Doesn't everyone know that yes to successfully wean people off junk, we're going to need easy and affordable healthy options?
...that taste good.
Not sure that's really possible. People used to eating vile shit develop some seriously skewed tastes, that pretty much ensure that they won't find anything except for vile shit tasty.
Triple Stacker guy talking about taste. :lol:
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 29, 2013, 08:21:59 AM
Triple Stacker guy talking about taste. :lol:
HEY NOW
Quote from: derspiess on July 29, 2013, 08:12:42 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 08:06:36 AM
Doesn't everyone know that yes to successfully wean people off junk, we're going to need easy and affordable healthy options?
...that taste good.
:huh:
There are lots of healthy things that taste good. However, they either take time to prepare or cost to much relative to shoving your face full of McFood.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 29, 2013, 08:11:32 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 08:06:36 AM
Doesn't everyone know that yes to successfully wean people off junk, we're going to need easy and affordable healthy options?
Fuck the poor. They don't want to eat $3 bags of Cheetos from the corner Korean-owned convenience store in the 'hood, they don't have to. ITS ABOUT CHOICE IN AMERICA
It just struck me as odd the things that they are calling people out on for being hypocritical for. Anyone who actually cares about the issue already knows that it isn't as simple as remove the fast food options.
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 08:34:01 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 29, 2013, 08:12:42 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 08:06:36 AM
Doesn't everyone know that yes to successfully wean people off junk, we're going to need easy and affordable healthy options?
...that taste good.
:huh:
There are lots of healthy things that taste good. However, they either take time to prepare or cost to much relative to shoving your face full of McFood.
Agree. I was just adding something important to your equation.
Quote from: Ed Anger on July 29, 2013, 08:21:59 AM
Triple Stacker guy talking about taste. :lol:
:rolleyes: I haven't had a Triple Stacker in years. Two Double Stackers are more practical.
Quote from: derspiess on July 29, 2013, 09:01:08 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 08:34:01 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 29, 2013, 08:12:42 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 08:06:36 AM
Doesn't everyone know that yes to successfully wean people off junk, we're going to need easy and affordable healthy options?
...that taste good.
:huh:
There are lots of healthy things that taste good. However, they either take time to prepare or cost to much relative to shoving your face full of McFood.
Agree. I was just adding something important to your equation.
:mellow:
Okay.
I eat mostly healthy and it doesn't seem to cost a lot. Just for instance, a bag of frozen or canned veggies, pound of fish, rice/couscous or what ever feeds me most of a week for a decent price. Not as cheap as a $1 burger at Mickey D's, but add the fries, drink and maybe something else to it and I probably spend less on a meal. And my meal is healthier.
Also can buy bags of lentils, dried peas/beans, cracked wheat plus the above mentioned frozen/canned veggies and look to buy fish/chicken/pork/cube steaks on sale, sometimes family packs on sale, and you can do ok for a cheap price. That's for one person. Feeding a family costs a small fortune but I'd think it doesn't have to be uber expensive for a poorer family to still get decent food.
For me now during summer, I'm starting to get my veggies from my backyard garden. Beans of several kinds, corn, potatoes, tomatoes. Though that garden costs me more for the stuff I buy to support it, like fencing, soil, fertilizers, various odds and ends.
Quote from: KRonn on July 29, 2013, 10:29:30 AM
Feeding a family costs a small fortune but I'd think it doesn't have to be uber expensive for a poorer family to still get decent food.
The other element is time. Not everyone can afford to just sit around cooking meals.
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 10:52:41 AM
The other element is time. Not everyone can afford to just sit around cooking meals.
"... just sit around cooking meals"?
Curious turn of phrase.
Well that was just sit around in the sense of ample free time. :P
I think I've spoken extensively on my normal diet that I've followed for over a decade now for purposes of my fitness/lifting escapades. I spend around $400/mo on food just for myself, that's not my family's grocery shopping, that's just mine. I don't buy organic or trendy food, just lots of lean meat, oats, brown rice etc. The real expense basically comes from the meat. It's hard to get the protein content I want, at the total calories I consume, without spending a lot of money. You can buy nothing but tuna fish or canned chicken and keep costs under control I guess, and that's what I think guys who lift like I do and have less money do. But there are taste issues with canned tuna and concerns about the impact of mercury exposure if you eat canned tuna every day of the week. I think they've advised you to only eat albacore tuna canned 1-2 times per week and regular tuna no more than 5 times.
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 10:52:41 AM
Quote from: KRonn on July 29, 2013, 10:29:30 AM
Feeding a family costs a small fortune but I'd think it doesn't have to be uber expensive for a poorer family to still get decent food.
The other element is time. Not everyone can afford to just sit around cooking meals.
It doesn't take that long, unless preparing a more elaborate meal. It's fast and easy to bake fish, pork or chicken. Grill up a couple of burgers. Steam some veggies or heat them in microwave or on the stove. Or use a crock pot to slow cook, which is also easy to do.
Yeah, it's an excuse people that just want to eat unhealthy stuff frequently give.
Quote from: KRonn on July 29, 2013, 12:40:35 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 10:52:41 AM
Quote from: KRonn on July 29, 2013, 10:29:30 AM
Feeding a family costs a small fortune but I'd think it doesn't have to be uber expensive for a poorer family to still get decent food.
The other element is time. Not everyone can afford to just sit around cooking meals.
It doesn't take that long, unless preparing a more elaborate meal. It's fast and easy to bake fish, pork or chicken. Grill up a couple of burgers. Steam some veggies or heat them in microwave or on the stove. Or use a crock pot to slow cook, which is also easy to do.
Disagree. I think it would take long for a single parent working two jobs to go to the store, scout out all of these healthy, cheap options. Then go home prepare said meal and get one's kids to eat it.
Sure it isn't that hard in a vacuum but many of the individuals we're talking about are double pressed on time and money.
edit: Actually even, though she did it, my mother was often hard pressed to want to get off a long day at work (when she made it home on time) to then kick something nutritious for us all.
Quote from: Caliga on July 29, 2013, 12:45:15 PM
Yeah, it's an excuse people that just want to eat unhealthy stuff frequently give.
True but that's also related to laziness. I'm not talking about lazy individuals though.
Aren't Reese's cups really a better deal, at $3.50/~2000 calories and ~50g of protein?
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 01:36:08 PM
Aren't Reese's cups really a better deal, at $3.50/~2000 calories and ~50g of protein?
Or maybe just go straight for the peanuts, which are also very cheap.
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 01:36:08 PM
Quote from: KRonn on July 29, 2013, 12:40:35 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 10:52:41 AM
Quote from: KRonn on July 29, 2013, 10:29:30 AM
Feeding a family costs a small fortune but I'd think it doesn't have to be uber expensive for a poorer family to still get decent food.
The other element is time. Not everyone can afford to just sit around cooking meals.
It doesn't take that long, unless preparing a more elaborate meal. It's fast and easy to bake fish, pork or chicken. Grill up a couple of burgers. Steam some veggies or heat them in microwave or on the stove. Or use a crock pot to slow cook, which is also easy to do.
Disagree. I think it would take long for a single parent working two jobs to go to the store, scout out all of these healthy, cheap options. Then go home prepare said meal and get one's kids to eat it.
Sure it isn't that hard in a vacuum but many of the individuals we're talking about are double pressed on time and money.
edit: Actually even, though she did it, my mother was often hard pressed to want to get off a long day at work (when she made it home on time) to then kick something nutritious for us all.
My mother also was in the same position, three kids, worked a job, but she always had something cooked or ready to be put in the oven by us kids if she was working the afternoon shift. Yeah, it's tough and if I had to feed a family I'd be looking for the easiest/fastest and I think the way I cook is pretty easy and fast. I save the more lengthy cooking for the weekend since I also don't like to spend a lot of time cooking after work, thought it's not hard to bake something for 45 mins, microwave frozen/canned veggies, things like that after work, which I also do sometimes. When I cook on a weekend I have enough for most of the week. Parents could do the same which I assume many do, then get some take out during the week too, but you have a good point about time and convenience and that's why many restaurants specialize in take out food to attract working parents. Must get expensive though which goes back to expense again.
Quote from: derspiess on July 29, 2013, 02:03:53 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 01:36:08 PM
Aren't Reese's cups really a better deal, at $3.50/~2000 calories and ~50g of protein?
Or maybe just go straight for the peanuts, which are also very cheap.
What the hell's a "peanut"?
Quote from: KRonn on July 29, 2013, 02:04:57 PMParents could do the same which I assume many do, then get some take out during the week too, but you have a good point about time and convenience and that's why many restaurants specialize in take out food to attract working parents. Must get expensive though which goes back to expense again.
Sure they can but clearly many are opting for the convenient options or the let kids have junk and they won't whine / can feed themselves option. :P
Besides, I'm not sure if eating out ventures down to McD's if that's going to add up to a lot of expense. -_-
I remember the cheapest thing I was eating other than PB+Js when I was unemployed was Taco Bell.
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 02:09:18 PM
Quote from: KRonn on July 29, 2013, 02:04:57 PMParents could do the same which I assume many do, then get some take out during the week too, but you have a good point about time and convenience and that's why many restaurants specialize in take out food to attract working parents. Must get expensive though which goes back to expense again.
Sure they can but clearly many are opting for the convenient options or the let kids have junk and they won't whine / can feed themselves option. :P
Besides, I'm not sure if eating out ventures down to McD's if that's going to add up to a lot of expense. -_-
Well then, now we're getting back to the food that's not so good for you, going full circle. I was giving alternatives that are reasonably priced and easy to cook in comparison to preparing lengthy meals or eating less healthy and somewhat cheaper priced food.
The single most expensive part of my food shopping is fruit and veg <_<
Quote from: KRonn on July 29, 2013, 02:27:59 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 02:09:18 PM
Quote from: KRonn on July 29, 2013, 02:04:57 PMParents could do the same which I assume many do, then get some take out during the week too, but you have a good point about time and convenience and that's why many restaurants specialize in take out food to attract working parents. Must get expensive though which goes back to expense again.
Sure they can but clearly many are opting for the convenient options or the let kids have junk and they won't whine / can feed themselves option. :P
Besides, I'm not sure if eating out ventures down to McD's if that's going to add up to a lot of expense. -_-
Well then, now we're getting back to the food that's not so good for you, going full circle. I was giving alternatives that are reasonably priced and easy to cook in comparison to preparing lengthy meals or eating less healthy and somewhat cheaper priced food.
Which are great alternatives for the likes of you and I. I'm not convinced though that it's just a lack of education that is at fault here - though certainly it can play a role.
Quote from: KRonn on July 29, 2013, 10:29:30 AM
I eat mostly healthy and it doesn't seem to cost a lot. Just for instance, a bag of frozen or canned veggies, pound of fish, rice/couscous or what ever feeds me most of a week for a decent price. Not as cheap as a $1 burger at Mickey D's, but add the fries, drink and maybe something else to it and I probably spend less on a meal. And my meal is healthier.
Also can buy bags of lentils, dried peas/beans, cracked wheat plus the above mentioned frozen/canned veggies and look to buy fish/chicken/pork/cube steaks on sale, sometimes family packs on sale, and you can do ok for a cheap price. That's for one person. Feeding a family costs a small fortune but I'd think it doesn't have to be uber expensive for a poorer family to still get decent food.
For me now during summer, I'm starting to get my veggies from my backyard garden. Beans of several kinds, corn, potatoes, tomatoes. Though that garden costs me more for the stuff I buy to support it, like fencing, soil, fertilizers, various odds and ends.
:cool:
And some good advice there. :)
Quote from: Ideologue on July 29, 2013, 02:06:53 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 29, 2013, 02:03:53 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 01:36:08 PM
Aren't Reese's cups really a better deal, at $3.50/~2000 calories and ~50g of protein?
Or maybe just go straight for the peanuts, which are also very cheap.
What the hell's a "peanut"?
:D
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 02:53:06 PM
Which are great alternatives for the likes of you and I. I'm not convinced though that it's just a lack of education that is at fault here - though certainly it can play a role.
Location, location, location.
Yes that's also true. Good food isn't always in easy travel distance.
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 10:11:31 PM
Yes that's also true. Good food isn't always in easy travel distance.
It would be if there were a demand for it.
Quote from: derspiess on July 30, 2013, 08:06:00 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 10:11:31 PM
Yes that's also true. Good food isn't always in easy travel distance.
It would be if there were a demand for it.
Of course there is more to it than that.
Quote from: garbon on July 30, 2013, 08:42:45 AM
Quote from: derspiess on July 30, 2013, 08:06:00 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 29, 2013, 10:11:31 PM
Yes that's also true. Good food isn't always in easy travel distance.
It would be if there were a demand for it.
Of course there is more to it than that.
Sure, there are some other factors. But if there was a strong enough demand for health food in inner cities, someone would be there providing it.
Not if the demand wasn't enough to overcome security concerns. Besides, lack of access now, affects whether people now and future even think they can get access to such establishments.
In the inner city of Stockholm there's health food everywhere.
Eat a Pussy, you Liberal McDoubles.
Quote from: fhdz on July 30, 2013, 11:55:33 AM
Eat a Pussy, you Liberal McDoubles.
:x
No thanks.
Quote from: The Brain on July 30, 2013, 10:10:33 AM
In the inner city of Stockholm there's health food everywhere.
Sweden as a whole has barely more people than the city of New York.
Quote from: garbon on July 30, 2013, 12:02:12 PM
Quote from: fhdz on July 30, 2013, 11:55:33 AM
Eat a Pussy, you Liberal McDoubles.
:x
No thanks.
We've already established you're not liberal. :P
:o
Quote from: garbon on July 30, 2013, 12:02:57 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 30, 2013, 10:10:33 AM
In the inner city of Stockholm there's health food everywhere.
Sweden as a whole has barely more people than the city of New York.
I don't get what the point of such statements about populations is. Does every country first get 10,000,000 brilliant, hard-working people, and then everyone after them is dregs?
Quote from: DGuller on July 30, 2013, 12:40:15 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 30, 2013, 12:02:57 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 30, 2013, 10:10:33 AM
In the inner city of Stockholm there's health food everywhere.
Sweden as a whole has barely more people than the city of New York.
I don't get what the point of such statements about populations is. Does every country first get 10,000,000 brilliant, hard-working people, and then everyone after them is dregs?
The point is that I don't think everything works on the same scale. I could see how in a place with fewer people that it might be easier to create a liberal paradise.
Quote from: garbon on July 30, 2013, 12:56:18 PMThe point is that I don't think everything works on the same scale. I could see how in a place with fewer people that it might be easier to create a liberal paradise.
Is there any particular reason you think it wouldn't scale, or is it more of a handy excuse for not trying?
Quote from: Jacob on July 30, 2013, 01:31:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 30, 2013, 12:56:18 PMThe point is that I don't think everything works on the same scale. I could see how in a place with fewer people that it might be easier to create a liberal paradise.
Is there any particular reason you think it wouldn't scale, or is it more of a handy excuse for not trying?
There are lots of other factors beside "fewer people", too. There's also the level of homogeneity in those areas (less racial tension seems like it would engender less economic disruption), the physical size and makeup of the area (if it's easier to get services to people, it's cheaper to provide them), and so on.
Quote from: fhdz on July 30, 2013, 01:39:05 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 30, 2013, 01:31:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 30, 2013, 12:56:18 PMThe point is that I don't think everything works on the same scale. I could see how in a place with fewer people that it might be easier to create a liberal paradise.
Is there any particular reason you think it wouldn't scale, or is it more of a handy excuse for not trying?
There are lots of other factors beside "fewer people", too. There's also the level of homogeneity in those areas (less racial tension seems like it would engender less economic disruption), the physical size and makeup of the area (if it's easier to get services to people, it's cheaper to provide them), and so on.
:yes:
Besides, J, all my posts in here are with regards to the myriad of problems that need to be addressed. I wasn't doing so with the notion of saying "so we shouldn't care" but to point out that it isn't just the result of being lazy or not wanting good food enough.
Quote from: garbon on July 30, 2013, 01:49:05 PM
Besides, J, all my posts in here are with regards to the myriad of problems that need to be addressed. I wasn't doing so with the notion of saying "so we shouldn't care" but to point out that it isn't just the result of being lazy or not wanting good food enough.
Very good then :cheers:
I have not had a double cheeseburger in a while, I believe I need to correct that deficiency soon.
Quote from: lustindarkness on July 30, 2013, 02:05:45 PM
I have not had a double cheeseburger in a while, I believe I need to correct that deficiency soon.
Isn't the McDouble like a smushed version of that?
Quote from: garbon on July 30, 2013, 02:09:27 PM
Quote from: lustindarkness on July 30, 2013, 02:05:45 PM
I have not had a double cheeseburger in a while, I believe I need to correct that deficiency soon.
Isn't the McDouble like a smushed version of that?
I thought the McDouble replaced it.
They list them as separate items. From the picture, one has two pieces of cheese.
http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/food/product_nutrition.sandwiches.257.Double-Cheeseburger.html
http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/food/product_nutrition.sandwiches.465.mcdouble.html
And for the less flattering comparison.
http://aht.seriouseats.com/archives/2008/12/mcdonalds-cheeseburger-mcdouble-double-cheeseburger-review-photos.html
I'll have the double cheeseburger, small fries and a coffee instead of the soda please, thank you.
I love coffee, but not with a burger & fries :x
Quote from: derspiess on July 30, 2013, 03:04:03 PM
I love coffee, but not with a burger & fries :x
Normaly, me neither, but mid afternoon sleepy time right now. :(