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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Valmy on July 21, 2013, 02:29:46 PM

Title: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: Valmy on July 21, 2013, 02:29:46 PM
http://www.medievalists.net/2013/07/21/crac-des-chevaliers-struck-by-missile-heavily-damaged/

QuoteSyrian rebels were reportedly using the medieval castle as a base to launch attacks against the Syrian army as well as on a nearby Aliwite village.

The Director-General of UNESCO, Irina Bokova, has expressed deep shock at news of further destruction to cultural heritage in Syria and calls upon all parties to cease the fighting around this and other historical landmarks. In a statement she explains "destroying the inheritance of the past, which is the legacy for future generations, serves no purpose except that of deepening hatred and despair and it further weaken the foundations for cohesion of Syrian society."

A report from last year also indicated that Crac des Chevaliers was damaged in the fighting between rebels and supporters of the Syrian government.

Well at least it was being put to its original use.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: Duque de Bragança on July 21, 2013, 03:04:23 PM
Now that's a  crossed red line!
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: The Brain on July 21, 2013, 03:26:26 PM
They came for the humans and I said nothing.
They came for the old buildings and I said hey! What's going on!??
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: citizen k on July 21, 2013, 04:41:36 PM
Bombing on July 12:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YguVpt5Byn4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YguVpt5Byn4)

Bombing of surrounding town last January:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CfuvK0_U_E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CfuvK0_U_E)

Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: Habbaku on July 21, 2013, 06:19:44 PM
:bleeding:
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: Neil on July 21, 2013, 07:02:08 PM
There's nothing wrong with demolishing old buildings.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: garbon on July 21, 2013, 08:08:55 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 21, 2013, 03:26:26 PM
They came for the humans and I said nothing.
They came for the old buildings and I said hey! What's going on!??

Makes sense.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: Razgovory on July 21, 2013, 08:19:44 PM
And they wonder why the British aren't so keen give back the artifacts they excavated during the Imperial period.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: Grallon on July 21, 2013, 08:21:53 PM
*sigh* Use nukes on the Middle-East already!




G.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 21, 2013, 08:22:55 PM
Just do like the Koreans did with all the stuff the Japanese razed, rebuild it all with the traditional construction techniques.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: Neil on July 21, 2013, 08:39:01 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 21, 2013, 08:22:55 PM
Just do like the Koreans did with all the stuff the Japanese razed, rebuild it all with the traditional construction techniques.
Isn't that... stupid?
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: jimmy olsen on July 21, 2013, 09:22:06 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 21, 2013, 08:39:01 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 21, 2013, 08:22:55 PM
Just do like the Koreans did with all the stuff the Japanese razed, rebuild it all with the traditional construction techniques.
Isn't that... stupid?
It looks nice and historical.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: Neil on July 21, 2013, 09:24:47 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 21, 2013, 09:22:06 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 21, 2013, 08:39:01 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 21, 2013, 08:22:55 PM
Just do like the Koreans did with all the stuff the Japanese razed, rebuild it all with the traditional construction techniques.
Isn't that... stupid?
It looks nice and historical.
Isn't modern better?
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: Josquius on July 21, 2013, 09:26:35 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 21, 2013, 08:39:01 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 21, 2013, 08:22:55 PM
Just do like the Koreans did with all the stuff the Japanese razed, rebuild it all with the traditional construction techniques.
Isn't that... stupid?
Even worse is the more common way in Japan/Korea: rebuild it with concrete.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: Neil on July 21, 2013, 09:59:38 PM
What's wrong with concrete?
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: HVC on July 21, 2013, 10:11:40 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 21, 2013, 09:26:35 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 21, 2013, 08:39:01 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 21, 2013, 08:22:55 PM
Just do like the Koreans did with all the stuff the Japanese razed, rebuild it all with the traditional construction techniques.
Isn't that... stupid?
Even worse is the more common way in Japan/Korea: rebuild it with concrete.
moldy's going to ban you.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: dps on July 21, 2013, 10:29:59 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 21, 2013, 08:39:01 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 21, 2013, 08:22:55 PM
Just do like the Koreans did with all the stuff the Japanese razed, rebuild it all with the traditional construction techniques.
Isn't that... stupid?

Consider the source.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: Razgovory on July 22, 2013, 01:12:18 AM
Quote from: Grallon on July 21, 2013, 08:21:53 PM
*sigh* Use nukes on the Middle-East already!




G.

I'm a bit unclear on how that would protect the castle.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: viper37 on July 22, 2013, 01:20:27 AM
Quote from: Grallon on July 21, 2013, 08:21:53 PM
*sigh* Use nukes on the Middle-East already!




G.
sure, that will teach them not to destroy valuable architectural monuments!
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: fhdz on July 22, 2013, 02:04:39 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 22, 2013, 01:12:18 AM
Quote from: Grallon on July 21, 2013, 08:21:53 PM
*sigh* Use nukes on the Middle-East already!




G.

I'm a bit unclear on how that would protect the castle.

:D
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 22, 2013, 02:25:09 AM
There's always the neutron option.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: Grallon on July 22, 2013, 07:33:07 AM
Quote from: viper37 on July 22, 2013, 01:20:27 AM
sure, that will teach them not to destroy valuable architectural monuments!



What it would do is stop this incessant "Allah Akhbar" they regurgitate in every sentence.  <_<



G.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2013, 11:51:59 AM
Saw an article today about various European countries considering naming Hezbollah a terrorist organization.
Which was quite surprising as I couldn't fathom how any rational country could have not have named them long ago.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: Barrister on July 22, 2013, 11:58:42 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2013, 11:51:59 AM
Saw an article today about various European countries considering naming Hezbollah a terrorist organization.
Which was quite surprising as I couldn't fathom how any rational country could have not have named them long ago.

It runs a whole series of social services in Lebannon.  It's terrorist activities are only a part of what they do.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: Viking on July 22, 2013, 11:58:51 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2013, 11:51:59 AM
Saw an article today about various European countries considering naming Hezbollah a terrorist organization.
Which was quite surprising as I couldn't fathom how any rational country could have not have named them long ago.

If you want to do business in Lebanon.... best not accuse the local government of being evil.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2013, 12:12:10 PM
Quote from: Viking on July 22, 2013, 11:58:51 AM
If you want to do business in Lebanon.... best not accuse the local government of being evil.

A lot of the successful businesses in Lebanon are run by people who hate Hezbollah.
The US manages to do about a billion a year in trade despite proscription.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: Neil on July 22, 2013, 12:30:31 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2013, 11:51:59 AM
Saw an article today about various European countries considering naming Hezbollah a terrorist organization.
Which was quite surprising as I couldn't fathom how any rational country could have not have named them long ago.
It's no simple thing placing groups along the terrorist/freedom fighter line.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2013, 12:32:35 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 22, 2013, 12:30:31 PM
It's no simple thing placing groups along the terrorist/freedom fighter line.

It can be difficult which is why it is helpful when you have a organization like Hezbollah that is so far on the terrorist side and so far away from the freedom fighter line that the decision is easy.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: Neil on July 22, 2013, 01:23:21 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2013, 12:32:35 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 22, 2013, 12:30:31 PM
It's no simple thing placing groups along the terrorist/freedom fighter line.
It can be difficult which is why it is helpful when you have a organization like Hezbollah that is so far on the terrorist side and so far away from the freedom fighter line that the decision is easy.
But even then, the EU couldn't make that determination for Hezbollah, and declared that only the military wing were terrorists.  It seems that it's more difficult than you're letting on.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2013, 01:34:32 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 22, 2013, 01:23:21 PM
But even then, the EU couldn't make that determination for Hezbollah, and declared that only the military wing were terrorists.  It seems that it's more difficult than you're letting on.

I disagree.
The "wings" exist solely to encourage these kinds of false distinctions.  Just because the EU says that the right hand and the left hand are not attached to the same body doesn't make it so.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: Neil on July 22, 2013, 02:12:11 PM
Still not that clear cut.  I suspect one's opinion on Hezbollah's status as a terrorist organization tracks fairly closely to one's opinion as to the legitimacy of Israel.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2013, 06:15:56 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 22, 2013, 02:12:11 PM
I suspect one's opinion on Hezbollah's status as a terrorist organization tracks fairly closely to one's opinion as to the legitimacy of Islamic Republic of Iran.

Fixed.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 22, 2013, 06:21:21 PM
No, Neil had it right.  If you dislike Israel the tendency is to give Hezbollah and Hamas a pass.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2013, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 22, 2013, 06:21:21 PM
No, Neil had it right.  If you dislike Israel the tendency is to give Hezbollah and Hamas a pass.

No that is not so.  It is not so for the Lebanese Sunnis who are no friends of Israel but bitter opponents of Hizbollah.
Also not so for the Sunni militants fighting Hezbollah in Syria (but would be happy to turn their guns on Israel as well).
Also not so for the Saudis and Gulf States.
Title: Re: Syrians blow up Crac des Chevaliers
Post by: Viking on July 22, 2013, 07:13:42 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on July 22, 2013, 06:56:45 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 22, 2013, 06:21:21 PM
No, Neil had it right.  If you dislike Israel the tendency is to give Hezbollah and Hamas a pass.

No that is not so.  It is not so for the Lebanese Sunnis who are no friends of Israel but bitter opponents of Hizbollah.
Also not so for the Sunni militants fighting Hezbollah in Syria (but would be happy to turn their guns on Israel as well).
Also not so for the Saudis and Gulf States.

You got it the wrong way round, if you ONLY shoot at  :Joos then you get a pass. Hizbullah's armed wing only made the list because they blew up a bus in bulgaria, it happened to be full of :Joos at the time, but still, it was in bulgaria.