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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Siege on May 27, 2009, 09:24:46 PM

Title: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: Siege on May 27, 2009, 09:24:46 PM
Mindblowing.
Is this why arabs are such a bunch of retards?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir-Whorf_Hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir-Whorf_Hypothesis)

Quote


The linguistic relativity principle (also known as the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis) is the idea that the varying cultural concepts and categories inherent in different languages affect the cognitive classification of the experienced world in such a way that speakers of different languages think and behave differently because of it. The idea that linguistic structure influences the cognition of language users has bearings on the fields of Anthropological linguistics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropological_linguistics), Psychology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology), Psycholinguistics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psycholinguistics), Neurolinguistics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurolinguistics), Cognitive science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_science), Linguistic anthropology (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_anthropology), Sociology of language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology_of_language) and Philosophy of language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_language), and it has been the subject of extensive studies in all of these fields. The idea of linguistic influences on thought has also captivated the minds of authors and creative artists inspiring numerous ideas in literature, in the creation artificial languages and even forms of therapy such as Neuro-linguistic Programming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_Programming).
The idea originated in the German national romantic thought of the early 19th century where language was seen as the expression of the spirit of a nation, as put particularly by Wilhelm von Humboldt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_von_Humboldt). The idea was embraced by figures in the incipient school of American anthropology such as Franz Boas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Boas) and Edward Sapir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Sapir). Sapir's student Benjamin Lee Whorf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Lee_Whorf) added observations of how he perceived these linguistic differences to have consequences in human cognition and behaviour. Whorf has since been seen as the primary proponent of the principle of linguistic relativity.
Whorf's insistence on the importance of linguistic relativity as an important factor in human cognition attracted opposition from many sides. Psychologist Eric Lenneberg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Lenneberg) decided to put Whorf's assumptions and assertions to the test. He formulated the principle of linguistic relativity as a testable hypothesis and undertook a series of experiments testing whether traces of linguistic relativity could be determined in the domain of color perception. In the 1960s the idea of linguistic relativity fell out of favor in the academical establishment, since the prevalent paradigm in linguistics and anthropology, personified in Noam Chomsky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky), stressed the universal nature of human language and cognition. When the 1969 study of Berlin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brent_Berlin) and Kay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Kay) showed that color terminology is subject to universal semantic constraints, the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis was seen as completely discredited.
From the late 1980s a new school of linguistic relativity scholars, rooted in the advances within cognitive and social linguistics have examined the effects of differences in linguistic categorization on cognition finding broad support for the hypothesis in experimental contexts.[1] Effects of linguistic relativity have been shown particularly in the domain of spatial cognition and in the social use of language, but also in the field of color perception. Recent studies have shown that color perception is particularly prone to linguistic relativity effects when processed in the left brain hemisphere, suggesting that this brain half relies more on language than the right one.[2] Currently a balanced view of linguistic relativity is espoused by most linguists holding that language influences certain kinds of cognitive processes in non trivial ways but that other processes are better seen as subject to universal factors. Current research is focused on exploring the ways in which language influences thought and determining to which extent.[1]

Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: Razgovory on May 27, 2009, 09:30:14 PM
Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis?  I thought that wasn't even used anymore.  I think 1984 was based on these ideas (well the Newspeak part at least).
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: dps on May 27, 2009, 09:47:57 PM
Yeah, it's not a new idea, which Siegy would be aware of if he was a Westerner.    ;)
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 27, 2009, 10:12:20 PM
Aren't Hebrew and Arabic similar languages?
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: PDH on May 27, 2009, 10:39:38 PM
Siege, welcome to the 1950s...
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: dps on May 27, 2009, 10:41:04 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 27, 2009, 10:12:20 PM
Aren't Hebrew and Arabic similar languages?

Yep, they're both Semetic.   
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on May 27, 2009, 10:49:50 PM
re article: well d'uh....

in a mind blowingly simplistic way yeah of course culture and language are all tied up. sure.
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: Queequeg on May 27, 2009, 11:37:44 PM
Quote from: Siege on May 27, 2009, 09:24:46 PM
Mindblowing.
Is this why arabs are such a bunch of retards?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir-Whorf_Hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir-Whorf_Hypothesis)
This is the language of al-Kindi, ibn Khaldun, Geber, Avicenna and Averroes.  How many great minds has Hebrew produced? 
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: Razgovory on May 27, 2009, 11:43:24 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on May 27, 2009, 11:37:44 PM
Quote from: Siege on May 27, 2009, 09:24:46 PM
Mindblowing.
Is this why arabs are such a bunch of retards?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir-Whorf_Hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir-Whorf_Hypothesis)
This is the language of al-Kindi, ibn Khaldun, Geber, Avicenna and Averroes.  How many great minds has Hebrew produced?

Maimonides.
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: Queequeg on May 27, 2009, 11:48:18 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 27, 2009, 11:43:24 PM
Maimonides.
That's a fair one, though he was nowhere near as prolific on non-theological matters as some of the Arab thinkers I mentioned.  Really, in terms of intellectual heft the only languages that can compete with Arabic are Greek, Chinese, Latin, Sanskrit, Italian, French, German, and English. 
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: HVC on May 28, 2009, 12:15:59 AM
Crap, i'm bipolar then.
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 28, 2009, 12:32:16 AM
Quote from: HVC on May 28, 2009, 12:15:59 AM
Crap, i'm bipolar then.

You like women too?
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: jimmy olsen on May 28, 2009, 12:39:48 AM
 Low blow. :lol:
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 28, 2009, 01:12:58 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 28, 2009, 12:39:48 AM
Low blow. :lol:

Nah, merely a cheap shot. HVC certainly won't be crying into his pillow because of it.  ;)
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave diff
Post by: Martinus on May 28, 2009, 01:16:40 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 28, 2009, 01:12:58 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 28, 2009, 12:39:48 AM
Low blow. :lol:

Nah, merely a cheap shot. HVC certainly won't be crying into his pillow because of it.  ;)

Unless he is also biting it at the time. :P
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: Razgovory on May 28, 2009, 01:18:34 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on May 27, 2009, 11:48:18 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 27, 2009, 11:43:24 PM
Maimonides.
That's a fair one, though he was nowhere near as prolific on non-theological matters as some of the Arab thinkers I mentioned.  Really, in terms of intellectual heft the only languages that can compete with Arabic are Greek, Chinese, Latin, Sanskrit, Italian, French, German, and English.

I'm suprised you didn't mention Russian.  Heh,  I studied Latin of three years and I've come to believe that most brilliant works in that language were written well after it was a dead language. :lol:
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: Sheilbh on May 28, 2009, 02:58:29 AM
I think there's a neo-linguistic relativity that's emerged recently, because Sapir-Whorf sort of fell off.  If you're interested Siegey, have a read of some Steven Pinker :)
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 28, 2009, 05:15:25 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 27, 2009, 09:30:14 PM
Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis?

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg8.imageshack.us%2Fimg8%2F8334%2Fworfue2.gif&hash=85b9570c5f3d43744baae57db36341f409126d7d)
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: Valmy on May 28, 2009, 09:27:10 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on May 27, 2009, 11:48:18 PM
That's a fair one, though he was nowhere near as prolific on non-theological matters as some of the Arab thinkers I mentioned.  Really, in terms of intellectual heft the only languages that can compete with Arabic are Greek, Chinese, Latin, Sanskrit, Italian, French, German, and English. 

Hebrew was a dead theological language for over 1500 years.  It is rather ridiculous to trash a language as producing theological stuff if it is an exclusively theological language.

You cannot even really include Maimonides since his native spoken tongue was probably whatever the Sefardi were speaking at the time.
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: Valmy on May 28, 2009, 09:28:43 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 28, 2009, 01:18:34 AM
I'm suprised you didn't mention Russian.  Heh,  I studied Latin of three years and I've come to believe that most brilliant works in that language were written well after it was a dead language. :lol:

It was not really a dead language until...what the 17th century?  Ironically it was the fight against the evolved Eurolatin and the attempt to restore pure Roman Latin that killed it.

Well that and the Reformation.  Damn Lutherans.
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: HVC on May 28, 2009, 09:45:18 AM
Quote from: Martinus on May 28, 2009, 01:16:40 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 28, 2009, 01:12:58 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on May 28, 2009, 12:39:48 AM
Low blow. :lol:

Nah, merely a cheap shot. HVC certainly won't be crying into his pillow because of it.  ;)

Unless he is also biting it at the time. :P
:lol: If i were so inclined i think i'd be a pitcher
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: HVC on May 28, 2009, 09:47:26 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on May 28, 2009, 12:32:16 AM
Quote from: HVC on May 28, 2009, 12:15:59 AM
Crap, i'm bipolar then.

You like women too?
Boo :D
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: Barrister on May 28, 2009, 12:05:35 PM
Quote from: Queequeg on May 27, 2009, 11:37:44 PM
Quote from: Siege on May 27, 2009, 09:24:46 PM
Mindblowing.
Is this why arabs are such a bunch of retards?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir-Whorf_Hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapir-Whorf_Hypothesis)
This is the language of al-Kindi, ibn Khaldun, Geber, Avicenna and Averroes.  How many great minds has Hebrew produced?

Thats an unfair question since Hebrew has been a language reserved for religious ceremony only for almost 2000 years.  It's like asking how many great minds Latin or Church Slavonic has produced.
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 28, 2009, 12:08:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on May 28, 2009, 09:27:10 AM
You cannot even really include Maimonides since his native spoken tongue was probably whatever the Sefardi were speaking at the time.

He spoke Arabic and wrote The Guide to the Perplexed in Arabic on the grounds that it was the only suitable language for philosophy.   :D

Siege's new pet theory fails.
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: Queequeg on May 28, 2009, 12:22:02 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 28, 2009, 12:08:49 PM
He spoke Arabic and wrote The Guide to the Perplexed in Arabic on the grounds that it was the only suitable language for philosophy.   :D

Siege's new pet theory fails.
:D

Yeah, I was going to guess that but couldn't find any proof.  Awesome.

Quote
Thats an unfair question since Hebrew has been a language reserved for religious ceremony only for almost 2000 years.  It's like asking how many great minds Latin or Church Slavonic has produced.
Its totally fair.  Hebrew hasn't.  Arabic has.  What gives Siege the right to presume that Hebrew is superior when it has been locked in the closet of religious ceremony for thousands of years?

And Latin?  Most western philosophy and science was in Latin until recently.  I included Latin on my list for the works written AFTER the decline of the Roman Empire (as before the language of the educated was Greek).
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 28, 2009, 12:24:33 PM
to be fair to Hebrew, my guess is that it there have been plenty of first rate thinkers whose native language is Hebrew over the past 50 years, though I imagine many of them write in English to reach a wider audience.
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: Queequeg on May 28, 2009, 12:26:19 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 28, 2009, 12:24:33 PM
to be fair to Hebrew, my guess is that it there have been plenty of first rate thinkers whose native language is Hebrew over the past 50 years, though I imagine many of them write in English to reach a wider audience.
True.  Probably more than Arabic in the last 50 years, at any rate.

But I think Siege's point is totally invalidated (ARABS ARE RETARDED AS ARABIC MAKES THEM THAT WAY) by the fact that some of the greatest minds in history wrote Arabic, even if many of them weren't native speakers. 
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: The Brain on May 28, 2009, 12:38:02 PM
Arabs are not retards! :mad:
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on May 28, 2009, 12:39:40 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 28, 2009, 12:38:02 PM
Arabs are not retards! :mad:

well not all of them obviously, I'm sure there are a few, considering that I know some who are if not retarded at least borderline moronic.
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: crazy canuck on May 29, 2009, 09:44:38 AM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on May 28, 2009, 12:39:40 PM
Quote from: The Brain on May 28, 2009, 12:38:02 PM
Arabs are not retards! :mad:

well not all of them obviously, I'm sure there are a few, considering that I know some who are if not retarded at least borderline moronic.

No reason to belief that the Arab speakers who are moronic outnumber the English speakers who are moronic.
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: PDH on May 29, 2009, 09:48:36 AM
Guys, guys, guys!  There are enough morons for ALL languages!
Title: Re: Linguistic Relativity: speakers of different languages think and behave differen
Post by: Valmy on May 29, 2009, 09:52:37 AM
Quote from: Queequeg on May 28, 2009, 12:22:02 PM
And Latin?  Most western philosophy and science was in Latin until recently.  I included Latin on my list for the works written AFTER the decline of the Roman Empire (as before the language of the educated was Greek).

Well they used Latin as an intellectual lingua franca but it was not their native tongues.  If you go that route you might include all Jews throughout history as Hebrew speakers.