http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/21/turkey-eu-membership-falters-row-germany
QuoteTurkey's EU membership bid falters as diplomatic row with Germany deepens
Efforts to resume negotiations and break three-year stalemate dashed in wake of Ankara's ruthless response to street protests
Turkey's chances of a breaking a three-year stalemate and relaunching its bid to join the European Union look like being dashed because of the government's ruthless response to three weeks of street protests amid worsening friction between Ankara and Berlin.
The foreign ministry in Berlin summoned the Turkish ambassador to Germany on Friday to explain the harsh language directed at the chancellor, Angela Merkel, by Egemen Bağis, the Turkish official in charge of negotiations with the EU.
Merkel had said earlier this week that she was "appalled at the very tough" response by the prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, in ordering riot police to clear central Istanbul of thousands of protesters last weekend.
Bağis accused the chancellor of playing domestic politics, said that anyone using Turkey for political purposes would suffer "an inauspicious end" and warned of severe retaliation if the negotiations were called off.
Turkey opened negotiations to join the EU eight years ago, at the same time as Croatia. While Croatia joins next week as the 28th member, Turkey's bid has been frozen for three years and it has closed just one of the 35 chapters of EU law required to complete the accession. Another 12 chapters have been opened.
Merkel and the German centre-right remain firmly opposed to Turkey joining. Her Christian Democrats' draft manifesto for the general elections in September states: "We reject full membership for Turkey because it does not meet the conditions for EU entry. Additionally, the EU would be overstretched because of [Turkey's] size and because of its economic structures."
Exasperated by the slow progress, Ankara has taken to warning that the EU needs Turkey more than it needs Europe. The Germans, French and Dutch take a different view.
Negotiations were supposed to resume next week after a long hiatus because the French president, François Hollande, lifted the block imposed by his predecessor, Nicolas Sarkozy, as a gesture of goodwill. Talks were to take place on regional development, an issue that could have influenced Ankara's policy towards parts of the south-east populated mainly by Kurds who have long been campaigning for greater rights and more devolved government.
But Germany and the Netherlands are refusing a green light for next week's resumption, triggering a European debate over the most sensible response to the turmoil in Turkey.
Carl Bildt, the Swedish foreign minister, is among those who argue strongly that Europe should not turn its back on Turkey but engage more fully. Advocates of engagement point out that resuming negotiations would help the protesters campaigning against what is seen as an increasingly authoritarian government, because the new protest movement is broadly sympathetic to a more European Turkey.
There are also calls to open two other policy areas for negotiation that would deal with justice, the courts, the rule of law, freedom of speech and assembly, and media freedoms – all crucial areas seen to be at stake in the current turmoil in which Erdoğan and Bağis have sought to criminalise the protesters as terrorists and extremists.
"Freezing all movement now will deepen an unscripted, long-term estrangement in which both sides are losing," said Hugh Pope, an expert on Turkey at the International Crisis Group, in an analysis published on Friday. "Frictions with the EU have grown since 2009. But European governments should not make a move that would effectively punish the majority of protesters, who are drawn from Turkey's modern, secular, western-oriented middle classes, a largely pro-EU constituency."
Apart from Franco-German resistance to talks, Cyprus is also vetoing several areas of negotiations because of the long-running dispute with Ankara over the partitioned island. Turkey refuses to admit goods from Greek Cyprus into its ports.
During the extreme police violence against the demonstrators last weekend, the European parliament sharply denounced the Erdoğan government's response. The prime minister reacted with vitriol, declaring that he did not recognise the legitimacy of the parliament and dismissing all international criticism while blaming the turmoil on external influences.
no wonder the Hungarian government is publicly defending Turkey's. They seem to posses the same amount of diplomatic talent.
more proof that we need to keep the turks out.
I don't think this is within the scope of conduct for the diplomatic representatives of civilized nations. This sounds more like something Assad or Skeletor would say.
From the Turkish EU ministry's website:
http://www.abgs.gov.tr/index.php?p=49004&l=2
QuoteIn recent days, we have been seeing that some European parliamentarians and officials are irresponsibly making very bold and irrational speeches.
[...]
However, the eagerness of some members of the European Parliament to make absurd statements merely for media attention is obvious. We respect the freedom to make these kinds of statements. We hope that they regain their reason as soon as possible. Above all, the use of the platform of the European Parliament to express the eclipse of reason through disproportionate, unbalanced and illogical statements would damage its credibility. Rather than allowing this, it would be wiser for the EU officials to put an end to it.
[...]
Turkey is not a banana republic.
[...]
Turkey has the most reformist and strongest government in Europe and the most charismatic and strongest leader in the world. Should anyone have a problem with this, then I am truly sorry. Only for those who feel overwhelmed, the leadership of Prime Minister Erdoğan is a problem.
[...]
The players taking part in this plot should not raise their hopes in vain. We will not allow either the interest lobby or the international networks to attack the integrity of the Prime Minister. Nobody is that strong. The Turkish people will not allow this.
[...]
The demonstrations will eventually be over. How will those who have taken part in this deleterious campaign and affronted the integrity of the Turkish people face us then? No matter how hard the wind blows, it is only dust that it will remove from the rock. There is nothing we can do for those who are swept away by the flood or blown away by the wind.
It is nonsense that some European parliamentarians and officials believe that suspending Turkey's EU accession process would be a threat for Turkey. Suspending Turkey's EU accession process is in fact a threat not for Turkey, but for the EU.
[...]
Within this framework, we warn that to adopt a stance which obstructs some of the positive developments recently planned may lead Turkey-EU relations to an irreversible point.
I love the Turkish PM's motorcades. Very American.
Merkel's end was already a bit suspicious.
Wow, a sternly worded letter from an Erdogan minister to Merkel and the European Parliament, no less!
Only Hollande can save the day!
It is weird watching the Turkish government transmogrifying into the North Korean government, one small step at a time. It is pathetic, but, of course, worrisome, because it isn't clear to me that the people of Turkey are seeing the damage that these kinds of statements do to the image of Turkey itself, not just its government.
Not that Turkey was likely to westernize enough to join the EU in our lifetimes.
Erdogan could have been the most successful Turkish politician since Atatürk. He created a huge economic boom, strengthened civilian authority over the military and is on his way to solve the Kurdish conflict. But his actions in recent weeks showed that he is an autocrat at heart and has no respect for civil society or democratic dialogue. Add to that the creeping islamisation of Turkey's society under his auspices and he is overall a failure despite his spectacular success in some policy areas.
Can she go on together? With inauspicious end?
Quote from: PDH on June 22, 2013, 07:44:54 AM
Merkel's end was already a bit suspicious.
That's why she's been wearing those Hammer pants.
Quote from: grumbler on June 22, 2013, 08:19:48 AM
It is weird watching the Turkish government transmogrifying into the North Korean government, one small step at a time. It is pathetic, but, of course, worrisome, because it isn't clear to me that the people of Turkey are seeing the damage that these kinds of statements do to the image of Turkey itself, not just its government.
Not that Turkey was likely to westernize enough to join the EU in our lifetimes.
It would take a lot of bleach to westernize enough for the Euros. The Turkish government has been liberalizing markets and as result has had very high levels of economic growth, a very North Korean move.
Threats over Turkish accession are funny, because Europe doesn't want them in and the Turks don't seem too eager to join in either.
Quote from: Iormlund on June 23, 2013, 09:45:18 PM
Threats over Turkish accession are funny, because Europe doesn't want them in and the Turks don't seem too eager to join in either.
Yeah, it seems to me over the last few years that the Turks would rather pivot themselves into a larger player in the Muddled East, rather than a be minor player in the EU. GO GO GADGET OTTOMAN EMPIRE
Ah but that's the thing. With their population they would not be a minor player at the EU at all.
From what I've read from here, the Euros would seem content marginalizing the Turks as much as possible in their reindeer games.
A Turko-German comedian caught a bit of flak about Turkey joining the EU for joking, "Europeans are worried that if Turkey joins the EU all the uneducated, poor, islamist Turks will come to their countries. I say: don't worry. They're all already here."
Quote from: Iormlund on June 23, 2013, 09:57:43 PM
Ah but that's the thing. With their population they would not be a minor player at the EU at all.
With their economic growth they may outpace some of the Mediterranean countries in a decade or two.
I hope Turkey faces east. Its hairy ass would still be a better sight than its retarded face.
Meanwhile in Vienna ...
This weekend, 1,500 Turks/Austro-Turks protested against Erdogan. 15,000 protested for him.
Quote from: Syt on June 24, 2013, 02:14:05 AM
Meanwhile in Vienna ...
15,000 protested for him.
Shit like this, I will never get. If their homeland is so great, what the FUCK are they doing in Austria? Go home and be a proud patriot there.
Quote from: Tamas on June 24, 2013, 02:45:06 AM
Shit like this, I will never get. If their homeland is so great, what the FUCK are they doing in Austria? Go home and be a proud patriot there.
Yeah. Tell them to beet it.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 24, 2013, 02:46:09 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 24, 2013, 02:45:06 AM
Shit like this, I will never get. If their homeland is so great, what the FUCK are they doing in Austria? Go home and be a proud patriot there.
Yeah. Tell them to beet it.
:rolleyes:
Quote from: Tamas on June 24, 2013, 02:45:06 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 24, 2013, 02:14:05 AM
Meanwhile in Vienna ...
15,000 protested for him.
Shit like this, I will never get. If their homeland is so great, what the FUCK are they doing in Austria? Go home and be a proud patriot there.
Well, official sides speak of it being more like 8,000. I had noticed the posters all over my district with Erdogan's picture, some Turkish text, and place and time of the gathering.
Quote from: Syt on June 24, 2013, 02:14:05 AM
Meanwhile in Vienna ...
This weekend, 1,500 Turks/Austro-Turks protested against Erdogan. 15,000 protested for him.
How about some real figures?
How many with tracksuits and/or Tony Montana t-shirts?
Look at the pictures:
http://diepresse.com/home/politik/aussenpolitik/1421912/Allahu-Akbar_8000-ErdoganFans-demonstrieren-in-Wien?_vl_backlink=%2Fhome%2Fpolitik%2Faussenpolitik%2F1413402%2Findex.do&direct=1413402
And here:
http://dastandard.at/1371170405902/Pro-Erdogan-Demo-Wien-ist-mit-dir
A member of parliament for the Greens in Austria (who has Turkish parents) got into a bit of a tiff, because he said that if 8,000 people demonstrate for Erdogan, then that should be 8,000 one way tickets to Turkey. He had to retract that statement, because his party (pro-immigration for, well, everybody) was not amused.
The left wing (also pro-immigration) hispter paper Der Standard said in its front page editorial that it should be no surprise that a large part (euphemism on their part) of the Turkish migrant community is conservative, religious and nationalist. Still, the protesters should be glad they can gather without fear of being attacked with tear gas, water cannons and nightsticks. And that if they come to Austria to live here, they shouldn't bring their home country's conflicts with them. However, they think that the support for Erdogan, who is actively courting Turks throughout Europe ("Calls for assimilation are crimes against humanity!") shows that current integration politics are not working.
Also, Erdogan spoke live via phone to the gathering in Vienna, thanking for their support, and condemning the Gezi Park protests ("They tore off women's head scarves!").
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.derstandard.at%2F2013%2F06%2F23%2F1371202785445-tIMG-1925.jpg&hash=8b64782134291de09e201be5d9ecf84a923fea71)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.derstandard.at%2F2013%2F06%2F23%2F1371202781470-tIMG-1828.jpg&hash=4a4e5ef2f75a18f127fbca7bae059dd59b711c13)
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.derstandard.at%2F2013%2F06%2F23%2F1371202783811-tIMG-1869.jpg&hash=46f64400c7891a66963c8a3a644a4ee941900253)
The gathering's organizer remains anonymous, and the demonstration also attracted people showing Albanian, Bosnian, Somalian and Palestinian flags. A Somali said, "Erdogan gives hope to the whole Muslim world, that's why there's many non-Turks here." The favorite slogans were "The Turksh diaspora is with you!", "Vienna is with you!", and "Ya Allah, Bismillah, Allahu Ekber!" (By God, in the name of God, God is Greater!) Police cordoned off two food places belonging to the "Türkis" chain, which is supposedly anti-AKP and pro-PKK (their restaurant near the subway station in my district is one of the best Turkish food places, though).
Quote from: Tamas on June 24, 2013, 02:45:06 AM
Shit like this, I will never get. If their homeland is so great, what the FUCK are they doing in Austria? Go home and be a proud patriot there.
It's called 'eating one's cake and keeping it' or 'having the best of both worlds' - that is to say living by Western standards which they couldn't achieve in the shithole home country they came from while insisting to keep the shithole country values that couldn't produce a nice way of life to begin with.
In other words - it's called being a parasite. And we stupidly allow hordes of them in :rolleyes:
G.
Meanwhile we have the Grallons of the world who contribute so much to society.
Europe is enlightened.
Quote from: garbon on June 26, 2013, 07:09:51 AM
Meanwhile we have the Grallons of the world who contribute so much to society.
Granted not as much as I would if I was running the show and dealing with such problems as lax immigration & assimilation policies :contract:
G.
Quote from: Grallon on June 26, 2013, 08:32:06 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 26, 2013, 07:09:51 AM
Meanwhile we have the Grallons of the world who contribute so much to society.
Granted not as much as I would if I was running the show and dealing with such problems as lax immigration & assimilation policies :contract:
G.
0 is still 0 (and that's me being generous :)).
Quote from: Grallon on June 26, 2013, 08:32:06 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 26, 2013, 07:09:51 AM
Meanwhile we have the Grallons of the world who contribute so much to society.
Granted not as much as I would if I was running the show and dealing with such problems as lax immigration & assimilation policies :contract:
But wouldn't that mean you'd be forced to speak English?
Quote from: garbon on June 26, 2013, 08:49:52 AM
0 is still 0 (and that's me being generous :)).
:lol: I wonder when you'll realize it's useless to try to 'get at me' - I'd have to care for that tactic to be effective.
-----
Meanwhile only the willfully blind can deny Muslims aren't a source of social tension wherever they are present in any numbers.
G.
Smoke another clove cigarette and tell the other kids in black how you don't care, Grallon.