http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera
Touted as spiritual successor to Planescape: Torment. Funding target 900,000. Raised within a day: almost 1.5 Million.
I consider going for the $45 bracket, because it gives you a free copy of Wastelands 2 (which I didn't contribute to).
That is....AWESOME.
God bless Brian Fargo.
I just came. Like, buckets. My pants are ruined. I loved these pants.
Oh God why was I wearing these pants.
I wonder how long till these kickstarter game projects run into difficulties and delays and people stop supporting them?
Because right now it seems like wishful thinking - I don't recall a single game completed according to that model, right?
Quote from: Martinus on March 07, 2013, 03:18:55 AM
I wonder how long till these kickstarter game projects run into difficulties and delays and people stop supporting them?
Because right now it seems like wishful thinking - I don't recall a single game completed according to that model, right?
http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,7881.msg537975.html#msg537975 (http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,7881.msg537975.html#msg537975)
And btw, I'm in the same situation as Queequeg's.
L.
This does sound interesting.
Mart: There've been a fair few which have worked out. There was one high profile failure a few months ago I'm certain, can't remember its name though.
Quote from: Martinus on March 07, 2013, 03:18:55 AM
I wonder how long till these kickstarter game projects run into difficulties and delays and people stop supporting them?
Because right now it seems like wishful thinking - I don't recall a single game completed according to that model, right?
I don't get the wishful thinking part...what difference does it make if these guys get the money from KS or a publisher? It is not like they have never designed and made a good game before. And I believe many of them have had difficulties and delays.
Quote from: Valmy on March 07, 2013, 08:39:44 AM
And I believe many of them have had difficulties and delays.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.3drealms.com%2Fduke-nukem-forever.jpg&hash=54464fa520f307f5e0a9404d75a17ebbe61b0fc1)
?
Quote from: Pedrito on March 07, 2013, 05:43:06 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 07, 2013, 03:18:55 AM
I wonder how long till these kickstarter game projects run into difficulties and delays and people stop supporting them?
Because right now it seems like wishful thinking - I don't recall a single game completed according to that model, right?
http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,7881.msg537975.html#msg537975 (http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,7881.msg537975.html#msg537975)
And btw, I'm in the same situation as Queequeg's.
L.
Despite my post being highlighted, I think I have to agree with Marti insofar as I'm waiting for one of these legacy games that had a bunch of excitement behind it to come out.
FTL might have done well but that's just the case of an indie company making it big - not and legacy series/brand revived.
Quote from: garbon on March 07, 2013, 08:48:14 AM
Despite my post being highlighted, I think I have to agree with Marti insofar as I'm waiting for one of these legacy games that had a bunch of excitement behind it to come out.
Well Wasteland 2 and Double Fine Adventure should be out here in the next year or so. But even if one or both are a huge success or huge flop why would that necessarily indicate anything about the other projects? They are being run by different people at different studios.
Quote from: Valmy on March 07, 2013, 09:10:57 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 07, 2013, 08:48:14 AM
Despite my post being highlighted, I think I have to agree with Marti insofar as I'm waiting for one of these legacy games that had a bunch of excitement behind it to come out.
Well Wasteland 2 and Double Fine Adventure should be out here in the next year or so. But even if one or both are a huge success or huge flop why would that necessarily indicate anything about the other projects? They are being run by different people at different studios.
Because it is a fledgling model and if there are serious flops - people won't have confidence in it? :huh:
Quote from: garbon on March 07, 2013, 09:17:21 AM
Because it is a fledgling model and if there are serious flops - people won't have confidence in it? :huh:
Because people will say 'but this is legendary game designer blah blah, you know he will do an amazing job not like that hack job blah blah!' I guess if ALL of them are flops then it might take down the whole idea but I find that pretty statistically unlikely. The teams with the big bucks have pretty solid track records.
Well we'll see, no?
Even I'm dumb enough to give to this!
It's already over 2 million $, it's going up faster than Obsidian's Project Eternity.
Between Wastelands 2, Eternity and Numenera it seems 2013-14 will be good times for old style isometric RPGs :)
L.
Quote from: Valmy on March 07, 2013, 08:39:44 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 07, 2013, 03:18:55 AM
I wonder how long till these kickstarter game projects run into difficulties and delays and people stop supporting them?
Because right now it seems like wishful thinking - I don't recall a single game completed according to that model, right?
I don't get the wishful thinking part...what difference does it make if these guys get the money from KS or a publisher? It is not like they have never designed and made a good game before. And I believe many of them have had difficulties and delays.
Well the difference is that when the game is funded by publisher, a customer does not pay until the game is ready. Right now people are enthusiastic about the model, but if it turns out to produce more misses than hits, people will become more disilusioned about contributing to the KS this way in the future and the model may falter. Is it really such an extraordinary prediction?
Quote from: Valmy on March 07, 2013, 09:29:38 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 07, 2013, 09:17:21 AM
Because it is a fledgling model and if there are serious flops - people won't have confidence in it? :huh:
Because people will say 'but this is legendary game designer blah blah, you know he will do an amazing job not like that hack job blah blah!' I guess if ALL of them are flops then it might take down the whole idea but I find that pretty statistically unlikely. The teams with the big bucks have pretty solid track records.
It depends. It may be that with no producer oversight, the creatives may get too creative and run the project into the ground. Being a legendary game designer means nothing if you cannot manage projects properly - now I am not saying this will happen, but perhaps removing the producer's "whip" will tilt power balance in favour of the designers, which may mean the game will be developed for so long, it will run out of KS money and never get finished - there is, after all, such thing as over-designing a product.
The thing is, no matter how great a creative designer you are, there is such thing as underestimating the resources needed to reach the goal. There is also a point in any creative process where improving the project you work on becomes subject to diminishing results - but creative people are notoriously bad at determining such breaking point, since they tend to be obsessive perfectionists (and that's why they need project managers and producers to tell them to stop polishing it and release). In the KS model, the producers either do not exist or are hired by the designers, so the usual power balance between both groups gets skewed in favor of the designers, who therefore will be more likely to effectively run the project and make the mistake I described at the beginning
When the initial costs of a project get underestimated in a process run according to the standard model, the producers have a choice of either canning the project or putting more cash into it.
In the KS model, each scenarios - i.e. (1) the designers can the project, (2) the designers come out to the KS funders for more cash after 3 years of working on the game, or (3) the designers release an unpolished game - will seriously undermine the confidence in the model.
QED.
Seems sound to me Matri. If I give 100.00 to KS project and it gets canned do i get it back? Seems almost in the gray area of a scam and open to abuse.
For kickstarter hilarity, look up the up front kickstarter on BGG.
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 08, 2013, 07:11:04 PM
For kickstarter hilarity, look up the up front kickstarter on BGG.
I dont blame them.
Quote from: 11B4V on March 08, 2013, 07:17:28 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on March 08, 2013, 07:11:04 PM
For kickstarter hilarity, look up the up front kickstarter on BGG.
I dont blame them.
BGG users get what they deserve.
I don't know what BGG is.
I don't understand why people don't realize that these ventures are gambles, and that investors know that investing in kickstarter projects guarantees nothing - just like spending $60 on crap like The Witcher 2 or Dragon Age games guarantees nothing.
The difference between dropping coin on these projects and something from an established publisher seem to be (1) that you potentially get more for the buck with kickstarter, since prices are lower, and (2) that you have a higher chance of getting nothing with kickstarter, rather than simply getting crap you don't want.
It is quite clear to me that the most cost-effective route is to wait for the Steam sales, in terms of just game for dollar. But lots of people find value in sharing anticipation with a community of others also anticipating the title and sharing the initial exploration of it, so there seems to be markets for kickstarter-like projects (including preorders from more established customers) as well as early buys of games and "aftermarket" sales on Steam (or wherever).
People are different. Hell, Polacks are probably even different.
Quote from: Martinus on March 08, 2013, 05:25:16 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 07, 2013, 08:39:44 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 07, 2013, 03:18:55 AM
I wonder how long till these kickstarter game projects run into difficulties and delays and people stop supporting them?
Because right now it seems like wishful thinking - I don't recall a single game completed according to that model, right?
I don't get the wishful thinking part...what difference does it make if these guys get the money from KS or a publisher? It is not like they have never designed and made a good game before. And I believe many of them have had difficulties and delays.
Well the difference is that when the game is funded by publisher, a customer does not pay until the game is ready. Right now people are enthusiastic about the model, but if it turns out to produce more misses than hits, people will become more disilusioned about contributing to the KS this way in the future and the model may falter. Is it really such an extraordinary prediction?
It seems you are moving the goal posts on me. You said it was wishful thinking that any games would get made using this model, I asked why that was so since these were established developers getting the kickstarter money. You have no real answer for that but come back with a vague pronouncement that if there are more misses than hits than the entire model would falter. If there is a particular developer in KS that has a run of success why would their fans suddenly not want to fund them because somebody else failed to deliver? And why wouldn't one of these developers be successful, they have a history of success behind them. Now I could see people being careful with their kickstarter money but it looks like they sort of are, the big money is really only being taken in by big names with impressive resumes.
Quote from: Martinus on March 08, 2013, 05:39:44 PM
QED.
I don't know if hypotheticals can be considered a proof of something.
Brian Fargo, the guy running this project, is primarily producer with decades of experience and not a developer.
Well, I pledged $45.
It won't be the most wasted money of my life.
L.
Quote from: grumbler on March 09, 2013, 08:09:10 PM
I don't understand why people don't realize that these ventures are gambles, and that investors know that investing in kickstarter projects guarantees nothing - just like spending $60 on crap like The Witcher 2 or Dragon Age games guarantees nothing.
I don't see how that's true. After all, if you wait until a game has actually come out - you can usually find someone you know who can vouch for whether or not the game is worth playing. Unless we're looking at some particular view of "guarantees nothing".
Additionally, I highly doubt that most people kicking in money to kickstarters saying, I'll be totally fine if I kick in money and I get no product at all.
Quote from: garbon on March 12, 2013, 07:36:09 AM
Quote from: grumbler on March 09, 2013, 08:09:10 PM
I don't understand why people don't realize that these ventures are gambles, and that investors know that investing in kickstarter projects guarantees nothing - just like spending $60 on crap like The Witcher 2 or Dragon Age games guarantees nothing.
I don't see how that's true. After all, if you wait until a game has actually come out - you can usually find someone you know who can vouch for whether or not the game is worth playing. Unless we're looking at some particular view of "guarantees nothing".
Additionally, I highly doubt that most people kicking in money to kickstarters saying, I'll be totally fine if I kick in money and I get no product at all.
Exactly. I just didn't want to respond since I don't respond to grumbler's posts since it is usually useless.
I just figured it was a typo of some kind. If I toss 50 bucks towards a kick starter project there is a good chance It'll never get off the ground. If I pay 50 bucks for Dragon age 2 then I will get that that game. I may not like the game, but I'll still get it.
While I think it's insane, I kinda like kick starter. I do realize that there is a strong chance that I'm wasting money. Lots of things can derail a PC game. Management problems, running out of money, technical difficulties etc. This happens all the time. Most of the time you never even hear about it. I don't know what percentage of PC games only get half-made but I bet it's at least 30-40%. And even if they make the game it might not be any good. I gave money to one kickstarter project and may again on this one, probably because I'm insane but also because I see it as beneficial to PC gaming as a whole. If publishers see there is a genuine interest in a type of PC game, perhaps more of that kind will be made.
Quote from: Razgovory on March 12, 2013, 02:42:05 PM
I gave money to one kickstarter project and may again on this one, probably because I'm insane but also because I see it as beneficial to PC gaming as a whole. If publishers see there is a genuine interest in a type of PC game, perhaps more of that kind will be made.
This is what it is about to me. I don't see these sorts of games still being made and I hope kickstarter success brings in some publishers eventually.
Quote from: garbon on March 12, 2013, 07:36:09 AM
I don't see how that's true. After all, if you wait until a game has actually come out - you can usually find someone you know who can vouch for whether or not the game is worth playing. Unless we're looking at some particular view of "guarantees nothing".
See, this is the problem when you cut out all the rest of a post and just focus on a sentence; you miss the point. I specifically allowed that, if you wait on a game purchase, you will get more "bang for the buck" than if you chance a pre-order (from an established company or KS) but lose out on being part of the community of pre-order types and early adopters. You aren't countering the point of my post with your post, as you think, but rather you are reinforcing it.
QuoteAdditionally, I highly doubt that most people kicking in money to kickstarters saying, I'll be totally fine if I kick in money and I get no product at all.
Additionally, I agree with your strawman argument, but, then, everyone else does, as well.
Sorry, mart, forgot we weren't supposed to engage.
Quote from: garbon on March 12, 2013, 06:43:53 PM
Sorry, mart, forgot we weren't supposed to engage.
Concession noted and accepted.
No contest.
I'm totally fine if I get no product. I'm not seriously expecting any.
I like Kickstarter, because for $25 I get the moral superiority of being a venture capitalist in this prosperity-gospel bullshit wonderland we call America.
If they reach $3.5M they'll add Chris Avellone to the team. :)
Man, he don't work cheap!
Quote from: Syt on March 22, 2013, 06:20:05 AM
If they reach $3.5M they'll add Chris Avellone to the team. :)
Man this is becoming a crazy huge writing team. But it looks like he will be mainly adding another joinable NPC.
This might also mean the writing phase for Project: Eternity might be coming to a close.
Quote from: Valmy on March 22, 2013, 07:27:20 AMMan this is becoming a crazy huge writing team.
Yeah, it's kinda scary - I hope someone keeps proper oversight and makes all their stuff mesh together well.
Quote from: Syt on March 22, 2013, 07:46:16 AM
Yeah, it's kinda scary - I hope someone keeps proper oversight and makes all their stuff mesh together well.
Actually it looks like Avellone's other job is to help Colin do just that.
This thing is entering its last days if any of you are interested and haven't pledged yet.
Over 4 million, including the Payal pledges.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/494/758/867e13f65fb35ea2458900fe226c4397_large.jpg)
Yeah that was the goal we really needed for this thing to be a worthy successor. That crazy underwater desert city was a nice bonus as well. The pledges are just shooting up today though. We may hit another one.
:cheers:
L.
So with Paypal pledges, they raked in $4.3M and are now the most funded games project ever on Kickstarter. They've already hinted that with the expansion of the project through stretch goals they will probably take longer than the December 2014 target date.
They say writing for Wasteland 2 is finished, and coding can begin; the writers will now turn to Numenera.
This game is going to be released: TODAY!
Enjoy everybody.
Reviews so far seem very positive, warning that this is less of a combat RPG and more about choice.
Quote from: Syt on February 28, 2017, 02:28:40 PM
Reviews so far seem very positive, warning that this is less of a combat RPG and more about choice.
Indeed which is exactly what I would want from a Torment game.
Enjoyed the first 30 minutes or so. Much more immersive than Pillows of Mediocrity.
I managed to kill myself before I even got really started! My first start ended in my death before I even saw anything :)
Quote from: Valmy on February 28, 2017, 02:30:38 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 28, 2017, 02:28:40 PM
Reviews so far seem very positive, warning that this is less of a combat RPG and more about choice.
Indeed which is exactly what I would want from a Torment game.
I have a concern that one choice might be distinctly better than the others, based on the teaser gameplay. You can't really tell that in advance, though.
Saw the same thing in fallout 2. You didn't really get to see the best stuff until the guides came out and told you the right sequences and choices.
This is on sale for 30 euros here: http://www.dlgamer.eu/download-torment_tides_of_numenera_-pc_games-p-40448.html
So do people recommend it?
Is this game good.
It's on sale on Steam now.
I have it and keep meaning to play it at some point :blush:
I have been busy ok?
Is this game good.
It's on sale again.
I played for ~6 hours, so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I didn't care for it.
Maybe it's shifting tastes, or I just don't have the patience for an RPG unless it's got great voice-acting and an engaging story right from the get-go, but...it did nothing for me. The gameplay isn't really that interesting, either, unfortunately. The "tides" thing is pretty meh, and none of the early NPCs struck me as that special.
Thank you for the feedback. :cool: