Israel-Hamas War 2023

[PJL]

People marched because it would help force their governments to support Ukraine.  Democracies are and should be held to a higher standard.

The alternative is a saying its ok for a democratic government to use the same terrorist tactics as HAMAS.

The other alternatice is that everyone should be held to the same standards as democracies.

Making democracies held accountable to a higher standard is literally the very definition of a double standard. Instead of trying to fit countries to an arbitrary standard, we should just assess the actions of a country / territory it on a case by case basis. Given Hamas started the current conflict, especially in the matter of how they started it, this actually lowers the bar for Israel regarding their actions. So far I have not seen any systemic wrongdoing that Israel has done that would warrant me not to continue supporting them. Rising causalities and inadequate humanitarian aid to Gaza are a concern but not yet a deal breaker.

[Josquius]

Sorry Josq, but your editorial bullshit calling IDF bombings "terror bombings" is entirely based on whatever leftist sewer you get your information from, reddit, bad leftist journalists, dunno. But there is no actual evidence the IDF is engaging in "terror bombing", they release specific claims that every target they strike was believed to have Hamas assets or infrastructure, and they are still broadly speaking, using the "warning" system before hitting such a target that also has civilians in it.

The BBC is a leftist sewer now? 
Look at the footage yourself and tell me that doesn't look more like strategic bombing than a targeted missile strike.

Amazing how you guys keep insisting you have a monopoly on fact and anyone who sees Israel as a bunch of cunts at the moment  is clearly a brainwashed leftist Hamas supporter.

Ah, I see your confusion. No one in Japan considered Sakhalin to really be a home island.

Which I addressed and you ignoresd.

Additionally the discussion wasn't about some legal technicality as to the status of the Sakhalins, it was about the military strategic reality--South Sakhalin was not invaded amphibiously, so you cannot use it as evidence that the USSR had the capacity to conduct an amphibious invasion of Hokkaido or one of the other home islands. The Kuril landings were all unopposed with minimal fighting on the islands, unless you actually believe the Japanese wouldn't contest a Soviet landing on Hokkaido they are also not comparable.

Why do you think the sakhallin invasion is relevant to talking about amphibious attacks? I'm confused about this.
And check again on the kurils. There absolutely was Japanese resistance.

Yet again for the nth time you're ignoring the relevant fact here - actual Soviet capabilities are irrelevant and it's elementary to discuss what would be required to invade hokkaido.
What is important is the japanese believed this was an imminent threat.

[Valmy]

One would expect that in a liberal democracy lynchings would not be common

Um...speaking as a citizen of the country the term comes from I am not sure why you would assume that.

There is something very democratic about the townspeople going out and grabbing the guilty and stringing them up in people's justice. Now, granted, not very liberal.

[Razgovory]

Doesn't look like strategic bombing to me.

[Josquius]

I can definitely say that my thinking on a number of things are shifting as a result of both the initial attack and the reactions from various groups afterwards. I don't know where it'll settle for me, but I'm reexamining a bunch of things I thought settled.

In general it seems to me that so much of the discussion is anchored on divisions where some peope are "humans like me, and look at their suffering - this is appalling" and other people are more acceptable casualties because "what do you expect would happen to people like that, given what happened before" either with a "of course it's sad, but..." or more strident "people like that are not worthy of consideration because they're subhuman / evil / unimportant" added.

Yep.
On Israel /Palestine I've traditionally been quite the moderate neutral.

It's never been something I'm that interested in.
Dicks on both sides, if only the sensible people could work together and come up with a solution.

Traditionally this has always got he shouted at by people who are really invested in this issue and insist on putting Israel in the darkest light possible. Apartheid state talk, crossing over into anti semitism etc...

Seeing the footage coming out of the area though and the rampant far right islamophobic bullshit taking over many corners of the Web, and being absolutely jumped on as a Hamas loving useful idiot for anything less than a jingoist wipe gaza out attitude....

Yeah.... I'm really coming around to the fuck Israel point of view.
There remain cunts on both sides. But on the Israeli supporting side the genocidal views seem to be increasingly the plurality.
Combined with the footage coming out this does not engender sympathy for the side with all the power.

[Razgovory]

You were defending Hamas...

[Josquius]

You were defending Hamas...

When?

[Admiral Yi]

Oh do stop the perpetual shit munching you absolute waste.
Look at the fucking news.

He's right.

[Razgovory]

You were defending Hamas...

When?

Earlier in this thread.

[Josquius]

You were defending Hamas...

When?

Earlier in this thread.

And you were picking your bum and eating the results.
That's not proof.

[Razgovory]

You're the naiive one here. You seem to think Hamas are comic book villains who seriously believe they can actually beat Israel in a war and chuck all the Jews into the sea, rather than just the rulers of a bantustan in the corner of the country.
There's absolutely no way they actually think they can get any ethnic cleansing of land outside gaza outside of this.

That sounded like defending them to me.

[OttoVonBismarck]

The BBC is a leftist sewer now?

The BBC has not categorized the IDF campaign in Gaza as "terror bombing."

What is important is the japanese believed this was an imminent threat.

They didn't believe this was an imminent threat.

[Josquius]

The BBC is a leftist sewer now?

The BBC has not categorized the IDF campaign in Gaza as "terror bombing."

I see. So I don't use the exact wording the BBC do thus I'm wrong. OK. If it's one of those discussions fair enough. I really don't care.

   

They didn't believe this was an imminent threat.

Yes they did. It's the key reason why they surrendered.

[Josquius]

You're the naiive one here. You seem to think Hamas are comic book villains who seriously believe they can actually beat Israel in a war and chuck all the Jews into the sea, rather than just the rulers of a bantustan in the corner of the country.
There's absolutely no way they actually think they can get any ethnic cleansing of land outside gaza outside of this.

That sounded like defending them to me.

LOL.
So this is the level of your zealotry is it?
Saying that Hamas aren't so stupid as to believe they actually stood a chance of conquering Israel with their raid and that they clearly had some other plan than winning a straight conventional  war = defending Hamas. Bad bad.

[HVC]

The BBC is a leftist sewer now?

The BBC has not categorized the IDF campaign in Gaza as "terror bombing."

I see. So I don't use the exact wording the BBC do thus I'm wrong. OK. If it's one of those discussions fair enough. I really don't care.

   

Words have meaning. If you can't bother to use the correct ones why would people believe you argue in good faith?