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Israel-Hamas War 2023

Started by Zanza, October 07, 2023, 04:56:14 AM

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grumbler

#2985
March 14, 2024, 08:29:38 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 14, 2024, 05:21:37 PMIf only people shouted comprehensive peace plans during demonstrations.

If only people didn't shout counterproductive nonsense during demonstrations. I've never understood the mob mentality that makes those kinds of demonstrators determined to make as many enemies for their cause as possible, just in order to feel morally superior themselves.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

grumbler

#2986
March 14, 2024, 08:37:32 PM
Quote from: viper37 on March 14, 2024, 04:57:53 PM(snip of long rambling exposition that doesn't seem to make any points other than to invent a new history for a slogan)

There's zero evidence that the "from the river, to the sea, [political entity] will be free" was originally a Jewish slogan that was then appropriated by the Palestinians.  The first documented uses were by Palestinians, and it's pretty clear that what they were calling for is exactly what their phrasing said that they were calling for (and no, that does not seem to have been genocide or ethnic cleansing, even in the mouths of Hamas).  The Israeli right began using it much later, and in the ethnic cleansing sense.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Razgovory

#2987
March 14, 2024, 10:42:26 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 14, 2024, 05:21:37 PMIf only people shouted comprehensive peace plans during demonstrations.
Seems pretty straight forward.  Palestine from the river to the sea, Israel gone.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Valmy

#2988
March 14, 2024, 10:45:24 PM
Defund Israel!
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

HVC

#2989
March 14, 2024, 10:49:03 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 14, 2024, 10:45:24 PMDefund Israel!

I mean the almost 4 billion annually that the US provides does seem unnecessary :unsure:
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

crazy canuck

#2990
March 14, 2024, 10:59:52 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 14, 2024, 10:45:24 PMDefund Israel!

Well, if the US did that it might make the far right in Israel a bit less belligerent.

Razgovory

#2991
March 14, 2024, 11:10:52 PM
The Iron Dome would stop working and those rockets would fall on Israel killing more civilians.  I'm sure that would make some people happy.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Valmy

#2992
March 14, 2024, 11:16:02 PM
Quote from: HVC on March 14, 2024, 10:49:03 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 14, 2024, 10:45:24 PMDefund Israel!

I mean the almost 4 billion annually that the US provides does seem unnecessary :unsure:

Indeed. I unironically think that would by an effective slogan.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Valmy

#2993
March 14, 2024, 11:24:52 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 14, 2024, 11:10:52 PMThe Iron Dome would stop working and those rockets would fall on Israel killing more civilians.  I'm sure that would make some people happy.

Well maybe they shouldn't have consistently elected this Bibi fucker who has systematically undermined our foreign policy goals. Either play ball with our two state solution or go it alone.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Solmyr

#2994
March 15, 2024, 01:55:02 AM
Chuck Schumer called for ousting Netanyahu and electing someone else. I guess even his patience wore thin.

HVC

#2995
March 15, 2024, 07:50:14 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 14, 2024, 11:10:52 PMThe Iron Dome would stop working and those rockets would fall on Israel killing more civilians.  I'm sure that would make some people happy.

If that's the criteria the US would save more civilians giving that money to the Ukraine  or Haiti, for example. Israel isn't a poor country.
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

Tamas

#2996
March 15, 2024, 07:59:22 AM
Now see, "defund Israel" is a chant I wouldn't have trouble with. It's clear and even if you don't agree with it, it's a valid demand/proposal to make. Crucially it doesn't directly involve eradicating a country from the map.

grumbler

#2997
March 15, 2024, 09:27:10 AM
The Iron Dome system is not reliant on US funding.  The war on Gaza (as it is currently being carried out) probably is.  The Israeli government has had to add US$15B to its defense budget since the war started, which is why the US House wants to send another US$14B in aid this year (in addition to the almost US$4 billion already allocated).
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Razgovory

#2998
March 15, 2024, 09:46:29 AM
The US has provided substantial resources for the Iron Dome
https://www.bbc.com/news/57170576

QuoteSince 2011, the US has contributed a total of $1.6bn (£1.1bn) to the Iron Dome defence system.

And here's another billion

https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-house-approves-1-billion-for-israels-iron-dome-after-months-long-delay/

Whether or not the Iron Dome is "reliant" on US aid is probably a state secret and not something we can know.  We do know that large amounts of US money go toward it.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

grumbler

#2999
March 15, 2024, 10:06:29 AM
Money is fungible.  If the US didn't provide the $160 million/year for Iron Dome (money sent in return for Israel sharing its ABM and antimissile technology and operational experience) Israel could easily have redirected other money to Iron Dome. The Israeli defense budget was a bit more than $23B in 2022. How big is Israel's military and how much funding does it get from the US?

Israel would need to reallocate one-sixth of one percent of its defense budget to cover the loss of US funding for Iron Dome.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!
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