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The Off Topic Topic

Started by Korea, March 10, 2009, 06:24:26 AM

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The Larch

Quote from: Barrister on March 21, 2023, 10:30:24 AM
Quote from: The Larch on March 21, 2023, 10:23:44 AM
Quote from: Barrister on March 21, 2023, 10:22:44 AM
Quote from: The Larch on March 21, 2023, 05:42:19 AMSo, are new mothers in the US regularly tested for drugs without their consent during their hospital stay? :unsure:

I would say that running blood tests is pretty routine for mothers giving birth.  And that hospitals are mandatory reporters when it comes to child welfare issues.

A relevant health test sure, those are routine, but a drug test?

It's a part of pretty much every hospital records I see... it's just part of the blood test - just one more chemical to test for.

So in the US and Canada a drug test is a standard feature of any hospital test? Or is it something that you have to specifically test for?

Barrister

Quote from: The Larch on March 21, 2023, 10:33:20 AM
Quote from: Barrister on March 21, 2023, 10:30:24 AM
Quote from: The Larch on March 21, 2023, 10:23:44 AM
Quote from: Barrister on March 21, 2023, 10:22:44 AM
Quote from: The Larch on March 21, 2023, 05:42:19 AMSo, are new mothers in the US regularly tested for drugs without their consent during their hospital stay? :unsure:

I would say that running blood tests is pretty routine for mothers giving birth.  And that hospitals are mandatory reporters when it comes to child welfare issues.

A relevant health test sure, those are routine, but a drug test?

It's a part of pretty much every hospital records I see... it's just part of the blood test - just one more chemical to test for.

So in the US and Canada a drug test is a standard feature of any hospital test? Or is it something that you have to specifically test for?

It's not a special test - it's part of a fairly standard series of blood tests.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

The Larch

Quote from: Barrister on March 21, 2023, 10:43:22 AM
Quote from: The Larch on March 21, 2023, 10:33:20 AM
Quote from: Barrister on March 21, 2023, 10:30:24 AM
Quote from: The Larch on March 21, 2023, 10:23:44 AM
Quote from: Barrister on March 21, 2023, 10:22:44 AM
Quote from: The Larch on March 21, 2023, 05:42:19 AMSo, are new mothers in the US regularly tested for drugs without their consent during their hospital stay? :unsure:

I would say that running blood tests is pretty routine for mothers giving birth.  And that hospitals are mandatory reporters when it comes to child welfare issues.

A relevant health test sure, those are routine, but a drug test?

It's a part of pretty much every hospital records I see... it's just part of the blood test - just one more chemical to test for.

So in the US and Canada a drug test is a standard feature of any hospital test? Or is it something that you have to specifically test for?

It's not a special test - it's part of a fairly standard series of blood tests.

Well that's disturbing, if they can be performed without your consent.

Barrister

Quote from: The Larch on March 21, 2023, 10:45:28 AM
Quote from: Barrister on March 21, 2023, 10:43:22 AM
Quote from: The Larch on March 21, 2023, 10:33:20 AMSo in the US and Canada a drug test is a standard feature of any hospital test? Or is it something that you have to specifically test for?

It's not a special test - it's part of a fairly standard series of blood tests.

Well that's disturbing, if they can be performed without your consent.

Pretty sure you sign a consent form when you enter the hospital.

But no - doctors and nurses do not go line for line over every last substance they're testing for.  A "blood test" can come back with a few dozen different results, depending on which boxes the doctor checks on the form.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Sheilbh

I think there's a semantic issue there - it feels to me like what makes something a drug test is what you use it for.

I can fully see hospitals screening for opioids for clinical purposes because it will impact on anesthesis but also what type of medication you can get. But using the same test to report someone to the police or simmilar which I think is wrong and I think different.

Same test but I think it's not always a "drug test".
Let's bomb Russia!

The Larch

Quote from: Sheilbh on March 21, 2023, 10:52:24 AMI think there's a semantic issue there - it feels to me like what makes something a drug test is what you use it for.

I can fully see hospitals screening for opioids for clinical purposes because it will impact on anesthesis but also what type of medication you can get. But using the same test to report someone to the police or simmilar which I think is wrong and I think different.

Same test but I think it's not always a "drug test".

There might be some terminology issues, yes. In fact in the news article it is mentioned that one of the issues being dennounced is that the hospital tests performed are much more sensitive than the ones regularly employed by federal agencies, so one kind of tests is, so to speak, hospital grade and much more sensitive, and another set of tests is, again so to speak, police grade and much less sensitive. That's also assuming that you only need to test positive regardless the amount of stuff you test positive for, in order to trigger the mandatory alert to the police that these women seem to have been victims of.

Barrister

Quote from: Sheilbh on March 21, 2023, 10:52:24 AMI think there's a semantic issue there - it feels to me like what makes something a drug test is what you use it for.

I can fully see hospitals screening for opioids for clinical purposes because it will impact on anesthesis but also what type of medication you can get. But using the same test to report someone to the police or simmilar which I think is wrong and I think different.

Same test but I think it's not always a "drug test".

But this is where the mandatory reporting comes in.

If a parent brings their child in with a bunch of unexplained bruises, doctors and nurses are required to report this - it's a well-established exception to doctor-patient confidentiality.

I gather a new mom testing positive for opioids is being treated the same way.


As I understand it - the "poppy seed bagels can have you test positive for heroin" thing does have a grain of truth to it, but really more at the edges.  Like if you're having a poppy seed bagel every day for weeks kind of thing.  So it seems more likely it's just an excuse people give - but of course you can't really know for sure.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Barrister

Quote from: The Larch on March 21, 2023, 11:08:53 AMThere might be some terminology issues, yes. In fact in the news article it is mentioned that one of the issues being dennounced is that the hospital tests performed are much more sensitive than the ones regularly employed by federal agencies, so one kind of tests is, so to speak, hospital grade and much more sensitive, and another set of tests is, again so to speak, police grade and much less sensitive. That's also assuming that you only need to test positive regardless the amount of stuff you test positive for, in order to trigger the mandatory alert to the police that these women seem to have been victims of.

So again just from my experience there's no distinction between "hospital grade" and "police grade" tests.  If police have cause to obtain a blood sample it gets sent to the same testing facility that hospitals use.

There might well be a distinction between a urine test used as part of job screening - I'm not really involved in that.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Sheilbh

Yeah I can well believe the tests are more sensistive. I think it is the reporting that's the issue. There are relatively few circumstances I can think of where I'd support mandatory reporting to the police. This doesn't seem like one of them to me.

But I could see it forming part of but maybe not the sole basis of a safeguarding flag.
Let's bomb Russia!

Barrister

Quote from: Sheilbh on March 21, 2023, 11:18:08 AMYeah I can well believe the tests are more sensistive. I think it is the reporting that's the issue. There are relatively few circumstances I can think of where I'd support mandatory reporting to the police. This doesn't seem like one of them to me.

But I could see it forming part of but maybe not the sole basis of a safeguarding flag.

Not reported to police - reported to child protection services.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Valmy

#87940
Quote from: The Larch on March 21, 2023, 05:42:19 AMSo, are new mothers in the US regularly tested for drugs without their consent during their hospital stay? :unsure:

Yes and in fact we were subject to an investigation by child protective services for child abuse when my wife tested positive for pain killers...during an emergency C-section to give birth to my first born. Can you believe it? Somebody getting major surgery had pain killers in her? But the WAR ON DRUGS knows no common sense.

Yeah that was a fun bureaucratic mess we had to deal with. Fortunately due to my former career I had lots of contacts at CPS.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Josquius

That's mind numbingly stupid. Surely loads of women get pain killers during birth?
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celedhring

#87942
Went to see Roger Waters yesterday. Dude comes across as a very angry somewhat drunk grandpa (slurred speech at all, although despite having a bottle of Mescal over his piano, I think he only drank water throughout the show).  :lol:

Most hilarious part was, despite featuring a lot of footage/pics of his times with Pink Floyd throughout to show, I'm damn sure there wasn't a single picture of Gilmour shown at all. But the fact he's an asshole is part of his charm at this point.  :lol:

Decent show and all though, if you're comfortable with 1970s-style lefty politics dialed up to 11 (there was a somewhat confused speech about Ukraine at the end, but nothing tremendously egregious). As it happens with most of those aging starts, though, it was more the (excellent) backing band doing the job.



mongers

Quote from: celedhring on March 22, 2023, 03:22:59 AMWent to see Roger Waters yesterday. Dude comes across as a very angry somewhat drunk grandpa (slurred speech at all, although despite having a bottle of Mescal over his piano, I think he only drank water throughout the show).  :lol:

Most hilarious part was, despite featuring a lot of footage/pics of his times with Pink Floyd throughout to show, I'm damn sure there wasn't a single picture of Gilmour shown at all. But the fact he's an asshole is part of his charm at this point.  :lol:

Decent show and all though, if you're comfortable with 1970s-style lefty politics dialed up to 11 (there was a somewhat confused speech about Ukraine at the end, but nothing tremendously egregious). As it happens with most of those aging starts, though, it was more the (excellent) backing band doing the job.

:cool:

Glad you enjoyed it and it wasn't spoilt by the any bad oldman ranting, like you feared.
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

The Larch

Quote from: Valmy on March 21, 2023, 10:16:24 PM
Quote from: The Larch on March 21, 2023, 05:42:19 AMSo, are new mothers in the US regularly tested for drugs without their consent during their hospital stay? :unsure:

Yes and in fact we were subject to an investigation by child protective services for child abuse when my wife tested positive for pain killers...during an emergency C-section to give birth to my first born. Can you believe it? Somebody getting major surgery had pain killers in her? But the WAR ON DRUGS knows no common sense.

Yeah that was a fun bureaucratic mess we had to deal with. Fortunately due to my former career I had lots of contacts at CPS.

:wacko:

And you were lucky, you say... what's a person without the contacts you had to do in that situation?