I felt like posting about BG1 & 2, but didn't want to clutter the BG3 thread. Also, I may intermittently comment on games I play/have played here. :P
I've finished BG2 + Throne of Bhaal, and I certainly can see why it's so beloved. It was good, but I feel I have a few issues with the game.
I've started BG1 back in 98 or 99, and finally finished it last month or so. :P I think of the game quite fondly. It has many world locations (most optional), and sprinkles side quests throughout your whole journey along the Sword Coast. It allows you largely to play at your own pace, except for a few quite linear sections, esp. at the end. It felt like a big adventure you went through with many road side attractions to partake or ignore, leading to a climactic confrontation with your nemesis.
BG2 is much more streamlined in its narrative.
Chapter 1: In medias res, the big escape.
Chapter 2: Do stuff at your own pace, do all the side quests - there's fewer locations than in OG BG, but your companions are a lot more interactive with extra encounters, quests, etc.
Chapter 3: The Raid (on Vampires or Thieves)
Chapter 4: Pirate village & Spellhold
Chapter 5: Underdark
Chapter 6: deal with Bodhi and wrap up any remaining side quests
Chapter 7: Grand Finale
Of these chapters, only 2 and 6 really give you access to the larger world, and letting you get lost in side activities. All other chapters are limited to a few separate maps where the narrative plays out. While this lets the developers direct the narrative much better, I felt fairly constrained by it. "Oh, can't get back there now. Hm."
The story overall is good, but for my tastes the path felt a bit too narrow compared to the previous game. YMMV, of course.
I would say that BG2 is the first "real" Bioware game that has a lot of staples of their titles - the big imd game twist/being captured, some character introspection, making you face some form of scrutiny of your character, and many more, but not least among them: companion characters that have mostly decent backstories and characters, who share banter with each other and provide you with quests. Which will be seen again in KotOR, Mass Effect, Dragon Age .... In fact in Chapter 2 I was getting annoyed because a party of 6 felt too small to include all characters I wanted, and the ones that had the utility I wanted (finding traps, picking locks :P ). I kept switching my party up quite regularly (another thing that is locked away in chapters 4&5 ... ) before settling on a final composition.
I played as Lawful Paladin (i.e. the boring option :P ), although I started as Fallen Paladin after I accidentally defended myself against city guards at the end of BG1 <_<
My review of companions in BG2 as far as I interacted with them more than saying "hi" and "bye
- Jaheira. Never liked her much in BG1, so dumped her pretty early. Too much of a stick in the mud.
- Imoen. No strong feelings. Mostly kept her around because it seemed to make sense in the context of the plot.
- Minsc. He was in my party at the end, but I think they played up his comedy way too much.
- Aerie. Poor broken girl. Kept her around because I didn't like the idea of just dropping her back into the slums/her previous life. :cry:
- Anomen Delryn. Annoying ass. Booted him off the party quite early.
- Cernd. Stoic, serious druid. Reunited him with his family and then left him in his grove. Boooring.
- Haer'Dalis. Fun at first. His romance with Aerie had me wince a bit. "Don't fall for him, girl!" But it turned out well in the end. But he became a bit too emo in the end ("everything, in the end, is death and destruction"), so I booted him off.
- Jan Jansen. Absoluetly lovely. Enjoyed his turnip related lore and stories a fair bit, and some amusing interactions with other party members.
- Keldorn Firecam. Another paladin. Liked him at first, but the way he handled his wife having an affair ... I dumped him. (Though I later brought him back to have an additional melee tanky guy.)
- Mazzy Fentan. Generally enjoyed her (and Jennifer Hale as voice actress!). But overall a but bland.
- Nalia de'Arnise. Generally enjoyed having her in the party and her side quests. Unfortunately had to leave her behind in a dungeon.
- Valygar Corthala. Did his quest (the magical sphere), but dumped him afterwards. Just seemed too stodgy and boring.
- Yoshimo. Had him around in ch. 1-3 since he was good for picking locks or find traps. I liked him quite a bit.
I mentioned that I had to abandon Nalia - when I rescued Imoen and had to escape the labyrinth of Bodhi I had to reorganize my party. I booted Nalia, and only could tell her to wait in place. I hoped she'd show up again in the main city but ... nope. And there was no option I saw to go back and save her. So for the rest of my journeys I had a mental flashback to Nalia in the dungeon, standing, waiting, tapping her foot, checking her watch ... :ph34r:
The companions also led to some unintentional hilarity. Like when combat started against a whole bunch of shadow demons and Haer'Dalis picks that exact moment to ask Aerie if she read the play he gave her and discussing it in detail.
Or, in the Underdark, after cutting off a guy's head to deliver to the evil drow mistress, Aerie piping up, "I'm so happy you brought me with you! I never imagined that we would be doing such great things!" Which seemed incredibly sarcastic in the moment. :D
The expansion has a decent idea but a "meh" execution, and felt way too brief for the story it wanted to tell.
Actually, that was my gripe with the main game. The big bad was someone who was just incidentally interested in you and your powers but was otherwise quite unconnected to you which left me a but let down, despite the amazing David Warner voicing Irenicus.
Personally, I think the expansion story would make a much better main campaign, giving it room to breathe. In fact, I feel the Irenicus story should be as long as the expansion is (but still come right after BG1), and vice versa.
I think I will re-play the game at some point, though, as an evil character, just to see how much changes. And now to BG3.
Of all the "chosen one" RPG, I think BioWare/Obsidian did best with KOTOR 1/2, mostly because the trope lends itself well to the Star Wars universe, and Planescape Torment, because being a chosen one there was no desirable thing. I remember being quite bored by the plot of BG 1&2 (I can barely remember the main beats), but loving the sense of exploration they fostered. That being said, I never played tabletop RPG with "chosen one" campaigns - which I find lazy storytelling.
Yeah, the "save the world" trope is a bit worn at this point. :D
I wish there were more low stakes RPGs, like Disco Elysium, arguably.
Another random thought on BG2. I loved the BG1 soundtrack, and thought the BG2 soundtrack was a bit meh by comparison. However, the Throne of Bhaal expansion had an amazing soundtrack. It meandered a bit between Poledouris' Conan soundtrack and John Williams. Lovely stuff. :)
Oh, and the Underdark. I did not enjoy that section much. As a teen I used to like drow - sexy, edgy, dark, mysterious ... visiting the Underdark in BG2 now mostly made me cringe at the Edgelordness of it all. :D
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 14, 2023, 05:53:50 PMOf all the "chosen one" RPG, I think BioWare/Obsidian did best with KOTOR 1/2, mostly because the trope lends itself well to the Star Wars universe, and Planescape Torment, because being a chosen one there was no desirable thing. I remember being quite bored by the plot of BG 1&2 (I can barely remember the main beats), but loving the sense of exploration they fostered. That being said, I never played tabletop RPG with "chosen one" campaigns - which I find lazy storytelling.
Yep, bores me silly; if I get a whiff of that in a book or game I'll not bother with it, hence I've not read the new testament. :D
:D
I think it largely depends on the quality of the story told, but the chosen one trope has become so commonplace that it is an automatic red flag when I pick up a book. I will endure it with "older" stories, but newer ones don't get that pass.
The worst offender I recall was a novel (Fireblood by Jeff Wheeler) who featured not one, not two, but three(!) orphans with mystical powers as main characters :D (Young male of "fireblood" heritage was raised to be a druid "druidech," his twin sister was raised by totally not gypsies, third (unrelated?) orphan by totally not shaolin monks) ... I just looked up the book because I didn't make it far in, and apparently they're later joined by A FORTH ORPHAN. :D :bleeding:
(The book is rated 4.4 on Amazon and 4.1 on Goodreads, so maybe I'm the issue and/or not the intended audience ;) )
Quote from: Syt on August 15, 2023, 12:58:31 PMYeah, the "save the world" trope is a bit worn at this point. :D
I wish there were more low stakes RPGs, like Disco Elysium, arguably.
Disco Elysium kinda give big hints that you'll need to save the world (or at least Revachol) at some point in the future. :P
Well yeah, but considering the drama behind the scenes it's unlikely to materialize, at least not in a way matching the original. :P
I've just started reading the novel set in the Disco Elysium world. Its set some years later. So I'll see.
The escapist recently did a video on saving the world being overdone. I very much agree. I much prefer lower stakes stories.
I remember I was really annoyed with Shadowrun Returns at the end. Well over half of the game is a decent noir style story trying to figure out what happened to an old pal of yours. Not exactly Maltese Falcon but decent enough for what it tried ot be. Only to turn into "gotta save the world" in the last 10% or so. :D
It's the Hollywood script writer school of thinking, IMO, where making the stakes bigger is generally considered making the story better.
Found this map of the entire area BG1, 2 and Icewind Dale are set in. Never played the latter, not sure why. Also not sure about the areas north of BG, which game Covers those?
(https://abload.de/img/worldmap-compsus0l.png)
Some seem to be from the definitive edition (Siege of Dragonspear for BG1, the Hidden Refuge in BG2), some seem to be from mods (like Cerendor Hold: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/79451/mod-spotlight-fishing-for-trouble/p1)
Over the weekend I played Unpacking, a little indie title that got a lot of positive buzz from critics.
Warning: I finished the game in about 3.5 hours, and you can probably take 2-4 hours with it; keep that in mind when considering purchase . It's default price is €19.99 and is currently 40% off on GOG.
It's one of those "high concept" games that, if made as a movie, would fall under arthouse. The game is in pixel art aesthetic, and it's focused on one thing: unpacking in a new place you live in.
This is a quite limited thing (and there's no visible characters, dialogue or anything, except a "photo album" following each level, with a comment from the female protagonist.
Still, it tells the story of a woman from her childhood to parenthood exclusively through the artifacts she accumulates moving from one place to the next - her old bedroom, to university, to moving in with room mates ...there's a mild puzzle component in figuring out what goes where, and sometimes even finding place for stuff - I'm sure we've all moved places and ended up thinking where the fuck to put all the shit you brought (and making sure it's in the "correct" place - no storing your toilet rolls in your dresser) - doubly so if moving in with someone. It's very cozy and low stakes, but I found it quite engaging. :)
Spoilers to follow.
I found it interesting in seeing how the game communicated the character's growth in her profession (she accumulates more and fancier pens, better graphics tablets, and eventually you put some awards and copies of an illustrated kids' book on the shelves). Or when she moves in with a guy who has a very sleek and "cool" apartment trying to find a place for all your nerd stuff ... and realizing there's no place to put your uni diploma. But later realizing that some of your clothes hangers are from his place (you moved in with plastic ones, he had wooden ones). I was way too happy to see that after moving places two or three times she finally went and painted her tabletop RPG miniature character. :P And when she had someone move into her place it was a big "oh" moment when there was a strong Asian theme to the contents of the boxes (as in cooking equipment/sauces/condiment, incense burners, ornaments ... ) and then unpacking bathroom stuff (befor clothes) and finding a box of tampons, realizing that she's apparently in a lesbian relationship now. :D
Overall a good and fun journey, but as said, quite short, so keep in mind if you're price conscious.
Made it to the Underdark in BG3, though I've not entered it yet (still stuff to do in the starting area).
Mostly, though, I've been playing an obscene amount of Slay the Spire while listening to podcasts. I've gotten the Ironclad to Ascension level 8 (the other classes are at ascension 3-5), but man it's getting hard, and I feel a lot depends on good RNG at this point (what kind of cards/relics you get, what cards you draw during your turns ... ).
So I've beaten StS with the Silent at Ascension level 20 and gotten all the others up to at least level 13. Luck is a factor, but a bigger factor is adjusting your play to the new difficulties the Ascension levels throw at you. There are people much better at the game then me who can pretty reliably win at the higher difficulty levels.
Yes, I notice that. I checked out some guides, but I also feel I may have hit the "the game becomes serious" thresholod for me, where I may have to pay too much attention ... which sucks when listening to podcasts. :D
Quote from: Syt on October 15, 2023, 06:36:06 AMYes, I notice that. I checked out some guides, but I also feel I may have hit the "the game becomes serious" thresholod for me, where I may have to pay too much attention ... which sucks when listening to podcasts. :D
That's fair. When I got burned out on trying to grind the higher difficulties but still wanted to play I did Downfall (which you should have for free if you have StS) or some of the workshop mods. I also made a game of running all four classes at no ascension, and for each victory I would up the ascension level by 1 and then run all four again.
So every weekend I'm like, "ok, let's go on with Baldur's Gate III" and then end up playing more Slay the Spire or Dorfromantik while listening to podcasts. :lol:
I did try out some other games, though.
GalCiv IV on Steam is now fully released. It sucks for everyone who bought it on Epic Games Store, though. They released on Epic in Early Access, then when they released on Steam Early Access they did so as "Supernova Edition" which sold at the same price as the original on Epic ... except that the Epic purchasers had to buy an "upgrade" to get the new features.
I dabbled around with it, and it's alright. Better than GC3 at launch IMO. It has some neat ideas, and feels in some ways definitely more "beer & pretzels" than Stellaris or Distant Worlds Universe. They try to tutorialize the game, but TBH some stuff seemed fairly weird to figure out.
"Oh, my ships have ranged attacks now on the map without having to go into a full battle!" (Your missiles can attack from 4 hexes away, beam weapons from 2 hexes away.)
You still have little planet hex maps where you build improvements. But it took me a while to figure out that the buildings on the right hand menu are only "specials". Standard buildings (farms, manufacturing, research etc.) are built by clicking an empty hex. Either have ALL buildings on the right side menu or have them ALL in the pop up when clicking a hex, maybe?
Upgrading starbases. You have to build "modules" in your planets or shipyards. Each upgrade = 1 module. Weird restriction IMO. You can manufacture a stockpile of modules, though.
Not much else to report yet. I like that not every colony needs to be micro managed (until you assign a governor and make them a core world, which you can only do on planets size 10+, they're colonies who deliver their resources to the "core worlds"). Instead of one big galaxy map you have separate smaller maps connected by "stream"(?) chokepoints.
Characters play a much larger role - you need them as governors, ministers, faction leaders, diplomats, to spawn hero ships ...
Their AI powered race generation is still basic. You can give a short description and the game will generate a description and some basic stats for you, and pick an image it hopes is appropriate from Stardock's AI generated avatar library. But there's still plenty stats you have to assign manually. I've toyed a bit with it, but it's a bit of a gimmick for now IMO.
Still, has a bit of "one more turn" vibe going. Oh, and Stardock created a feature chart of what which edition had at launch.
(https://clan.akamai.steamstatic.com/images//44022615/ceb287502dc2da71e3202187865199fe6b38acad.png)
Also been playing a few hours of https://store.steampowered.com/app/502230/Monsters_Den_Book_of_Dread/
A fairly basic dungeon crawler where your party moves room to room in a dungeon, gathering treasure and fighting monsters to level up, get more loot and fight more monsters. It's not very complex (at least up to level 5 which is how far I got) and has some risk/reward mechanics going on (can I risk one more fight, should I use one of my scarce buffs or should I go to one of the "heal up" rooms first? Fun little time waster. No idea how the other, later games are.