Beebs must be happy that this 'sexualised' performances are now banned. :rolleyes:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tennessee-first-us-state-ban-204400321.html
QuoteTennessee lawmakers passed a bill banning drag shows in public on Thursday, sending the measure to the Republican Governor Bill Lee's desk.
The law would make Tennessee the first state to ban public drag, which could also affect LGBTQ+ pride celebrations and transgender people who are in shows of any kind. There are currently 20 bills in 15 US states aimed at drag queen performances.
It's well-documented thin economic literature that discrimination against LGBTQ+ people damages their economic, physical, and mental well-being. Additionally, discriminatory bills like the one in Tennessee can lower a nation's GDP.
In past years, bills in other states that targeted transgender people prompted strong negative reaction from business leaders, out of concern that discriminatory legislation would make it more difficult to woo clients, talent and corporate relocations.
Several of the US' largest corporations have decried the recent legislation as an attempt to erase protections for transgender people. (It's unclear if any companies have donated money to stop the bills).
In Tennessee's bill, a first offense would be treated as a misdemeanor, but a second offense would be treated as a felony.
Erin Reed, a queer legislative researcher and transgender rights activist, said the language of the bill is very broad and doesn't differentiate between trans people and drag performers. The bill says "male and female impersonators" cannot "provide entertainment that appeals to prurient interest."
"Drag queen story hours will no longer be rushed by proud boys, but cops," Reed said on Twitter.
Quote from: garbon on February 25, 2023, 10:26:51 AMBeebs must be happy that this 'sexualised' performances are now banned. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
I'll admit that, while I don't actually understand what they think that they are banning (articles about it are very vague), I suspect that these bills are show pieces, passed knowing that they violate the First Amendment and will be struck down. Lots of opportunities for OUTRAGE!!! posturing by the Right here.
I would tend to agree, I think there's two elements:
1. The Supreme Court has ruled that something that solely appeals to a prurient interest, isn't protected speech, and it can be restricted, vis-a-vis the Miller Test.
2. The scope of what can practically be prohibited appears to be fairly narrow, based on how jurisprudence stemming from Miller has evolved since the 1970s.
3. I'm not familiar with the scope of Miller being applied to how someone dresses in public, but usually more to published works of media (film, photography, etc.)
I think obtaining a conviction would be difficult under the text of the statute (assuming the news article summarized it correctly--I haven't read the bill), and as grumbler says I think if you obtained such a conviction it would likely not survive judicial challenge.
It's notable that the community standard and national standard part of the Miller test would seem to trivially protect drag as not being out of the norm--we have had drag queens on national broadcast television since at least the 1990s and maybe earlier, and there's several mainstream reality shows right now focusing specifically on drag queens. Again, this statute applies to in person displays which is a little different.
A State can certainly criminalize indecent exposure and things of that nature, but making subjective judgements on how "appropriate" a person's attire is vis-a-vis their biological sex, and determining it is "drag" because someone isn't dressed manly or womanly enough, and then determining it is prurient...just seems like a legal fiction that you can even prosecute these cases.
But I imagine some local official will try, this is being done for PR purposes and going after a LGBT person will further that end. I imagine someone will very intentionally try to break the law to be the test case right away.
I have to say I never even thought that drag shows were for prurient interests. I always thought they were just kind of goofy and subversive of gender norms.
Quote from: Valmy on February 25, 2023, 12:50:33 PMI have to say I never even thought that drag shows were for prurient interests. I always thought they were just kind of goofy and subversive of gender norms.
The American right seems intent on equating "subversive of gender norms" with "prurient interest".
Don't think the American right would like pantomime then :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantomime#:~:text=Pantomime%20is%20a%20participatory%20form,out%20phrases%20to%20the%20performers.
Les Dawson: Banned in Tennessee :lol: :blink:
Yeah, Dawson and all those other northern comedians, all members of the wokerati :lol:
It's a bit more of a wider net than just drag:
QuoteObscenity and Pornography - As introduced, creates an offense for a person who engages in an adult cabaret performance on public property or in a location where the adult cabaret performance could be viewed by a person who is not an adult. - Amends TCA Title 7, Chapter 51, Part 14.
https://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/default.aspx?BillNumber=SB0003&GA=113
"Adult cabaret is defined in Tennessee law as:
Quote"Adult cabaret" means a cabaret that features topless dancers, go-go dancers, exotic dancers, strippers, male or female impersonators, or similar entertainers;
There is a similarly disgusting initiative here in Kentucky right now. As I enjoy attending drag shows, I'll probably donate to the opposition.
Does that mean that nudie bars are or will be banned in Tennessee? :o
The one time I drove into Alabama I was gobsmacked they were banned there.
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 25, 2023, 09:12:28 PMDoes that mean that nudie bars are or will be banned in Tennessee? :o
The one time I drove into Alabama I was gobsmacked they were banned there.
Not by this law. Nudie bars aren't public property and they shouldn't be seen by minors already.
A public library with such show would be cancelled however:
https://barbada.ca/lheure-du-conte-par-barbada/
Yeah we are talking about fully clothed people being thrown into prison here for...wearing the wrong clothes.
Quote from: Valmy on February 26, 2023, 08:47:43 AMYeah we are talking about fully clothed people being thrown into prison here for...wearing the wrong clothes.
That's totally silly. But in the 20+ years I've been on online forums, nothing would really surprise me of some US States.
Why do they hate Music Hall?
Ban all public dancing, fashion shows and wearing of makeup - just to be sure.
Quote from: garbon on February 25, 2023, 10:26:51 AMBeebs must be happy that this 'sexualised' performances are now banned. :rolleyes:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tennessee-first-us-state-ban-204400321.html
What the fuck dude?
I literally said that people should be free to do whatever they want - I just personally wouldn't take my kids to a drag queen story hour (although they're now too old for any kind of story hour - they just read to themselves). I think that's pretty clear I wouldn't want to ban such things.
This kind of bill is an outrageous violation of civil liberties - and as pointed out might go so far as to criminalize a trans person from giving any kind of performance of any sort.
I've got no problem with drag reading circles. Tempest in a tea cup and all. But this seem a bit excessive
Link is to a article, but is NSFW
Mommy and me drag bdsm show (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11810305/Fury-Drag-act-BABIES-Semi-naked-man-thigh-high-boots-performs-bondage-routine.html)
I mean the kids won't remember anything, but seems oddly provocative. No different then dad taking the tots to a strip club.
Quote from: Valmy on February 26, 2023, 08:47:43 AMYeah we are talking about fully clothed people being thrown into prison here for...wearing the wrong clothes.
(https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.2196638390.1485/st,small,507x507-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.jpg)
Quote from: HVC on March 02, 2023, 12:04:26 PMI've got no problem with drag reading circles. Tempest in a tea cup and all. But this seem a bit excessive
Link is to a article, but is NSFW
Mommy and me drag bdsm show (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11810305/Fury-Drag-act-BABIES-Semi-naked-man-thigh-high-boots-performs-bondage-routine.html)
I mean the kids won't remember anything, but seems oddly provocative. No different then dad taking the tots to a strip club.
I don't really know why we should care about this. Some parents do strange things and...?
Quote from: garbon on March 02, 2023, 12:19:55 PMI don't really know why we should care about this. Some parents do strange things and...?
Yeah - I hate to be a fuddy duddy conservative on this but unless there's a legit safeguarding issue, generally we sould let parents raise their kids and make these types of judgements.
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 02, 2023, 12:21:21 PMQuote from: garbon on March 02, 2023, 12:19:55 PMI don't really know why we should care about this. Some parents do strange things and...?
Yeah - I hate to be a fuddy duddy conservative on this but unless there's a legit safeguarding issue, generally we sould let parents raise their kids and make these types of judgements.
I don't know if you can claim to be a fuddy duddy conservative and be pro drag show for kids at the same time :lol:
As I mentioned there won't be harm to the kid, and I can't really explain why it feels wrong to me, but to quote justice stewart it's a "I know it when I see it" type feeling.
Guess I'm just getting older. Now get off my lawn.
Quote from: HVC on March 02, 2023, 12:26:12 PMI don't know if you can claim to be a fuddy duddy conservative and be pro drag show for kids at the same time :lol:
English conservatives have been dressing up as women for centuries.
Quote from: HVC on March 02, 2023, 12:26:12 PMI don't know if you can claim to be a fuddy duddy conservative and be pro drag show for kids at the same time :lol:
As PDH says if you've reached the age of 8 without a man in drag throwing Quality Street at you, you've officially had a sad childhood :(
I just think it's about parental judgement and not for the state to intervene. Parents can decide for themselves what they think is appropriate for their kids.
A more positive reception from "The Manc" :
https://themanc.com/whats-on-manchester/a-cabaret-rave-for-babies-and-toddlers-is-coming-to-manchester/
https://www.kcci.com/article/iowa-senate-bill-would-ban-minors-attending-drag-shows/43015435
"As part of the proposal, business owners who allow minors to attend a drag show would face a year in jail and up to $2,500 in fines. Any person over 18 who knowingly brings a minor to a drag show at a business will be guilty of a simple misdemeanor. State agencies that violate the proposal would be fined $10,000 per minor.
The bill would also allow parents to file a lawsuit if their child sees a drag show. "
Do they define "drag show" or is it one of those "I know it when I see it" type of things?
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 02, 2023, 03:56:49 PMhttps://www.kcci.com/article/iowa-senate-bill-would-ban-minors-attending-drag-shows/43015435
"As part of the proposal, business owners who allow minors to attend a drag show would face a year in jail and up to $2,500 in fines. Any person over 18 who knowingly brings a minor to a drag show at a business will be guilty of a simple misdemeanor. State agencies that violate the proposal would be fined $10,000 per minor.
The bill would also allow parents to file a lawsuit if their child sees a drag show. "
Iowa not doing itself proud.
Quote from: Jacob on March 02, 2023, 04:06:08 PMDo they define "drag show" or is it one of those "I know it when I see it" type of things?
QuoteFor purposes of this section, "dragshow" means a performance in which all of the following apply:
a. The main aspect of the performance is a performer who exhibits a gender identity that is different than the performer's gender assigned at birth through the use of clothing, makeup, accessories, or other gender signifiers.
b. The performer sings, lip-syncs, dances, reads, or otherwise performs before an audience for entertainment, whether or not performed for payment.
SENATE FILE 348 (https://www.legis.iowa.gov/legislation/BillBook?ga=90&ba=SF348)
The usual moronic legal proposal from someone who desperately wants to fight the culture war but is 4F. Loopholes here the size of elephants.