My wife - bless her - has recently gotten on a history kick, starting with a "survey of world history" book from the "world history = western history, with a small detours to India and China" school. It's targeted at kids. It's great. She's pulling my oldest along with her too, which warms my history nerd heart.
However she's looking to expand a bit after she finishes the current book (she's reading a chapter for the boy a few times a week, with me providing additional colour and "well actually" commentary on occasion :nerd: ).
Can anyone recommend any good accessible books the covers places and eras outside of the old Western canon? She looked for a book on African history, but quickly got lost in "the Pharaohs were actually black" type books, which are perhaps a bit early and a bit overly specific for the current intention. A lively, accessible writing style is probably more important than the specific topic but ideally something closer to "the general consensus among scholars" than "brave new controversial perspectives".
Any suggestions?
I know you are talking about more adult reading, but one series that I plan to expose my daughter to in a couple of years is the Cartoon History of the Universe by Larry Gonick. Volume 1 focuses mainly on the origins of the universe and Western History. Volumes 2 and 3 take deep dives into other parts of the world, including big chunks of their mythological origins.
This has always been a real challenge to me. In my experience many of the non-Western history books have huge sections just bitching about why westerners have wrong thoughts about this area...and frankly I don't really care what the wrong ideas are about this area I want to learn what the author thinks are the right thoughts to have.
I was pretty excited when "Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World" became a big deal back in...2006 or so. But man was that book loaded with that kind of thing, ranting about how the West was brainwashed by Persian and Chinese elites into thinking the Mongols were bad when in fact they were the champions of the little people. Why? Why make apologia just because you think the West has too negative of an opinion?
It isn't like when you open a history of France, you are going to see the author spend lots of pages about anti-French views spread by evil Francophobic Anglophones and then go on to just ignore French colonialism and imperialism and hit you with rapturous apologia. Well at least not in English :lol:
So I would love to just have a great source talking about Persia or whatever without some agenda to establish some narrative in a western context. And if you ARE going to do that, at least don't bore me with it. Maybe mention that in the forward or something.
Maybe an encyclopedia? That's what I read as a kid.
For Africa maybe Golden Rhinoceros on Africa in the Middle Ages. Relatively short - each chapter is about 6-8 pages talking about a single find or object which then illuminates different bits of stories across Africa. But might not be readable enough.
In a similar style - but also it's a physically beautiful book - Neil MacGregor's A History of the World in 100 Objects. He wrote it when he was Director of the British Museum (I think he's now Director of the Humboldt Museum so he has a type) and it was a joint project with the BBC so I think they're all there (for now).
It's just out and I've not read it but Simon Sebag Montefiore's The World: A Family History has had good reviews. It is massive (seen it in bookshops).
In terms of narrative history, it's a specific moment and (sort of) outside the Western canon, but I think Freedom at Midnight is an incredibly gripping read about Indian independence. It's not strictly narrative but I also found 1491 about pre-Columbian Americas really enjoyable and a bit more of a sweep.
And maybe have a look - especially with a kid (though maybe check first for content) at some of the history in comic/graphic novel. Obviously there's Maus or Persepolis, but I've also really enjoyed Showa telling the story of the Showa period semi-autobiographically through a manga.
Quote from: frunk on January 11, 2023, 03:00:08 PMI know you are talking about more adult reading, but one series that I plan to expose my daughter to in a couple of years is the Cartoon History of the Universe by Larry Gonick. Volume 1 focuses mainly on the origins of the universe and Western History. Volumes 2 and 3 take deep dives into other parts of the world, including big chunks of their mythological origins.
My boy might love those! :cheers:
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 11, 2023, 03:11:43 PMMaybe an encyclopedia? That's what I read as a kid.
You know, the treatment is actually pretty good but the form factor is a bit of an obstacle... :hmm:
Quote from: Sheilbh on January 11, 2023, 03:16:21 PMFor Africa maybe Golden Rhinoceros on Africa in the Middle Ages. Relatively short - each chapter is about 6-8 pages talking about a single find or object which then illuminates different bits of stories across Africa. But might not be readable enough.
In a similar style - but also it's a physically beautiful book - Neil MacGregor's A History of the World in 100 Objects. He wrote it when he was Director of the British Museum (I think he's now Director of the Humboldt Museum so he has a type) and it was a joint project with the BBC so I think they're all there (for now).
It's just out and I've not read it but Simon Sebag Montefiore's The World: A Family History has had good reviews. It is massive (seen it in bookshops).
In terms of narrative history, it's a specific moment and (sort of) outside the Western canon, but I think Freedom at Midnight is an incredibly gripping read about Indian independence. It's not strictly narrative but I also found 1491 about pre-Columbian Americas really enjoyable and a bit more of a sweep.
And maybe have a look - especially with a kid (though maybe check first for content) at some of the history in comic/graphic novel. Obviously there's Maus or Persepolis, but I've also really enjoyed Showa telling the story of the Showa period semi-autobiographically through a manga.
Thanks for the recommendations :)
The local comic shop has a series on Greek gods which I'll be getting soon... my boy just read all the Asterix comics which made me happy. As for the books, I'll look them up :cheers:
Quote from: Valmy on January 11, 2023, 03:02:33 PMThis has always been a real challenge to me. In my experience many of the non-Western history books have huge sections just bitching about why westerners have wrong thoughts about this area...and frankly I don't really care what the wrong ideas are about this area I want to learn what the author thinks are the right thoughts to have.
I was pretty excited when "Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World" became a big deal back in...2006 or so. But man was that book loaded with that kind of thing, ranting about how the West was brainwashed by Persian and Chinese elites into thinking the Mongols were bad when in fact they were the champions of the little people. Why? Why make apologia just because you think the West has too negative of an opinion?
It isn't like when you open a history of France, you are going to see the author spend lots of pages about anti-French views spread by evil Francophobic Anglophones and then go on to just ignore French colonialism and imperialism and hit you with rapturous apologia. Well at least not in English :lol:
So I would love to just have a great source talking about Persia or whatever without some agenda to establish some narrative in a western context. And if you ARE going to do that, at least don't bore me with it. Maybe mention that in the forward or something.
Yeah I agree. There are probably good reasons for it, but it'd be nice if it was different.
Not exactly it as covers whole world but the History of the World series by Susan Wise Bauer gives you touch points on a lot of different histories around the world.
Doesn't DK have various big history books with pics and stuff that are fairly equal coverage? Like History: From the Dawn of Civilization to the Present Day (I checked a title). NB: I don't know for a fact that it does include non-Western stuff to the degree desired, but my impression is that it might.
Quote from: garbon on January 11, 2023, 04:01:15 PMNot exactly it as covers whole world but the History of the World series by Susan Wise Bauer gives you touch points on a lot of different histories around the world.
I don't necessarily need it all in one book. An accessible "History of pre-modern Indonesia" or whatever would be just fine.
Quote from: The Brain on January 11, 2023, 04:04:41 PMDoesn't DK have various big history books with pics and stuff that are fairly equal coverage? Like History: From the Dawn of Civilization to the Present Day (I checked a title). NB: I don't know for a fact that it does include non-Western stuff to the degree desired, but my impression is that it might.
I've been looking for books like those every time I'm in a book store, but they don't seem to be around that much. Looking online, they have a few books but their range of topics is pretty narrow alas.
I know you want non-Western canon. But for something that would interest a boy - especially with your background - have you considered loads of Viking stuff? :ph34r:
Is Japanese history of any interest? :ph34r:
Quote from: Sheilbh on January 11, 2023, 04:18:53 PMI know you want non-Western canon. But for something that would interest a boy - especially with your background - have you considered loads of Viking stuff? :ph34r:
Yup, I'll absolutely get into that. The challenge there is to meet my preferences which is less pop-culture VIKINGS!!! and more Scandinavian-down-to-earth in style.
Less of the "the savage but honourable warriors from the mighty fjords of the brutal bleak North" that often dominates the easy entry level stuff on vikings.
... but right now my wife is putting an effort into remedying her lacklustre PRC based history (and philosophy and arts and literature) education and pulling the boy with her, so I'm going to wait a bit on the viking stuff :)
Quote from: The Brain on January 11, 2023, 04:23:17 PMIs Japanese history of any interest? :ph34r:
Everything is, to be honest (even viking stuff, in spite of what I just said - so hitting me up with good recommendations are good) as long as it's accessible.
Quote from: Jacob on January 11, 2023, 04:25:25 PMQuote from: The Brain on January 11, 2023, 04:23:17 PMIs Japanese history of any interest? :ph34r:
Everything is, to be honest (even viking stuff, in spite of what I just said - so hitting me up with good recommendations are good) as long as it's accessible.
Then I quote myself from the books thread. :)
Quote from: BrainThe Japanese Myths: A Guide to Gods, Heroes and Spirits, by Frydman. From the mythical origins of Japan through the melting pot of local and continental religions and stories, to modern Japanese popular culture. A nice little introduction to the subject.
Folk Tales of Japan: 28 Japanese folk tales with cultural commentary, by Kyota Ko. Does what it says on the tin. Every story has a cute little illustration. A charming little book. :)
Thanks :cheers:
John Keay has written decent one volume histories of India and of China. There are plenty of good books in the Ottomans. Christopher Harding has a number of well reviewed books on Japan though I've not read them myself.
Wild Swans by Jung Chang tells the history of modern China through the lives of three generations of women and is excellent. I enjoyed her biog of Mao too but it's controversial.
Ryszard Kapuscinski wrote some great books on modern African history including The Emperor on the overthrow of Haile Selassie and the Shadow of the Sun.
Jacob, I can't remember how old your kid is, but at a certain point can't you just bring him to the history section of your local library and let him loose?
Maybe I'm just dating myself, but I checked out TONS of history books as a kid. I have to admit it wasn't super-diverse, almost all western, I think a little about China, but then again it was the 80s.
Not book(s), but The China History Podcast is incredibly good, accessible, and covers basically everything you can imagine in terms of topics related to China. The host is well spoken, fun, and easy to listen to. He also does pods on Chinese sayings and on tea.
Here's their site (https://teacup.media/chinahistorypodcast)
John A. Crow's "The Epic of Latin America" is well written and a decent survey of the region.
Jared Diamond's Collapse covers that topic in a number of societies around the world and is much better written than Guns, Germs and Steel.
Sapiens is an interesting treatment of human evolution.
1491 is well-written but gushes a bit too much, IMO, on the highest possible population levels in the pre-Colombian new world. With that caveat, though, it covers a lot of interesting and amazing accomplishments of a whole series of people lacking the staple crops and domesticated animals found in the rest of the world.
This is a good intro to the History of Japan
https://www.amazon.com/History-Japan-R-H-Mason/dp/080482097X