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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: mongers on August 04, 2016, 08:32:57 AM

Title: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on August 04, 2016, 08:32:57 AM
Might I suggest this thread for acts of terror or terrorism that involve only a handful of injuries or fatalities?

Last night an American tourist Russell Square London was knifed to death:

Quote
Reuters UK 
@ReutersUK
    
London assistant police commissioner says man detained over knife attacks was a Norwegian national of Somali origin.

11:55 AM - 4 Aug 2016

:hmm:


edit:
More details here:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36972126 (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36972126)
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Martinus on August 04, 2016, 09:27:08 AM
Those goddamn Norwegians.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: dps on August 04, 2016, 11:54:34 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 04, 2016, 09:27:08 AM
Those goddamn Norwegians.

Launching murderous attacks in Britain since the 8th century.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Hamilcar on August 06, 2016, 10:41:46 AM

Belgian police attacked with machete in Charleroi
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36998449?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

Sadly, we will never know what motivated this attack.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on August 06, 2016, 10:57:31 AM
It is the Flemish! Time for a final solution to the Flemish menace.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on August 06, 2016, 01:39:39 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on August 06, 2016, 10:41:46 AM

Belgian police attacked with machete in Charleroi
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36998449?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

Sadly, we will never know what motivated this attack.

Good use made of the thread; these little attacks will probably keep this thread ticking over 'nicely'.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Sheilbh on August 10, 2016, 10:55:55 AM
Russell Square wasn't terrorism as far as the police are concerned they've found no evidence of any interest in that.

However judge's sentencing remarks of the man who murdered Asad Shah for being Ahmadi:
http://www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk/8/1639/HMA-v-Tanveer-Ahmed

Bradford Mosque of course called for a blasphemy law in response :bleeding:

I think there's a lot more we need to do to protect the Ahmadi and stop this hatred spreading over from Pakistan - it's horrible what they go through because the few I've known have been some of the nicest most admirable people I've met.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Hamilcar on August 19, 2016, 06:22:10 AM
Rabbi stabbed by man shouting "Allah Akbar!"

https://www.rt.com/news/356472-france-rabbi-stab-strasbourg/

Sadly, we will never know the motive.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 06:28:23 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 10, 2016, 10:55:55 AM
Russell Square wasn't terrorism as far as the police are concerned they've found no evidence of any interest in that.

However judge's sentencing remarks of the man who murdered Asad Shah for being Ahmadi:
http://www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk/8/1639/HMA-v-Tanveer-Ahmed

Bradford Mosque of course called for a blasphemy law in response :bleeding:

I think there's a lot more we need to do to protect the Ahmadi and stop this hatred spreading over from Pakistan - it's horrible what they go through because the few I've known have been some of the nicest most admirable people I've met.

Good judgement from the judge. :thumbsup:

And yes, these are the people we should be protecting. When people like Tyr or Jacob talk about negotiating with ISIS, or leaving them alone to control the Middle East - we are effectively sentencing people like this to death.

Edit: And after such shit move by the Bradford Mosque, they should be subject to some retaliatory action. Nothing illegal - maybe a detailed tax control, or sanitary check or what have you. I am sure the authorities can come up with a good excuse.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 06:30:01 AM
Quote from: Hamilcar on August 19, 2016, 06:22:10 AM
Rabbi stabbed by man shouting "Allah Akbar!"

https://www.rt.com/news/356472-france-rabbi-stab-strasbourg/

Sadly, we will never know the motive.

Some comments under the article are "interesting".  :yuk:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Hamilcar on August 19, 2016, 06:33:34 AM
Timely piece by Sam Harris on "What Jihadis Really Want"
https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/what-do-jihadists-really-want

Straight from the source.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 08:50:05 AM
Quote from: Hamilcar on August 19, 2016, 06:33:34 AM
Timely piece by Sam Harris on "What Jihadis Really Want"
https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/what-do-jihadists-really-want

Straight from the source.

An excellent podcast.

It is rather ironic - the jihadis could not have done a better job proving the point people like Harris has been making for the last decade if they had asked Harris to write the article himself.

"They hate us for our freedom". A seemingly trite, silly statement that actually is an almost perfect summation of exactly why they do in fact hate us.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Legbiter on August 19, 2016, 09:09:51 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 08:50:05 AM
Quote from: Hamilcar on August 19, 2016, 06:33:34 AM
Timely piece by Sam Harris on "What Jihadis Really Want"
https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/what-do-jihadists-really-want

Straight from the source.

An excellent podcast.

It is rather ironic - the jihadis could not have done a better job proving the point people like Harris has been making for the last decade if they had asked Harris to write the article himself.

"They hate us for our freedom". A seemingly trite, silly statement that actually is an almost perfect summation of exactly why they do in fact hate us.

ISIS has an English-language publication with an article on that very subject.

QuoteShortly following the blessed attack on a sodomite, Crusader nightclub by the mujahid Omar Matee, American politicians were quick to jump into the spotlight and denounce the shooting, declaring it a hate crime, an act of terrorism, and an act of senseless violence. A hate crime? Yes. Muslims undoubtedly hate liberalist sodomites, as does anyone else with any shred of their fitrah (inborn human nature) still intact. An act of terrorism? Most definitely. Muslims have been commanded to terrorize the disbelieving enemies of Allah. But an act of senseless violence? One would think that the average Westerner, by now, would have abandoned the tired claim that the actions of the mujahidin – who have repeatedly stated their goals, intentions, and motivations – don't make sense. Unless you truly – and naively – believe that the crimes of the West against Islam and the Muslims, whether insulting the Prophet g, burning the Quran, or waging war against the Caliphate, won't prompt brutal retaliation from the mujahidin, you know full well that the likes of the attacks carried out by Omar Mateen, Larossi Aballa, and many others before and after them in revenge for Islam and the Muslims make complete sense. The only thing senseless would be for there to be no violent, fierce retaliation in the first place!

Many Westerners, however, are already aware that claiming the attacks of the mujahidin to be senseless and questioning incessantly as to why we hate the West and why we fight them is nothing more than a political act and a propaganda tool. The politicians will say it regardless of how much it stands in opposition to facts and common sense just to garner as many votes as they can for the next election cycle. The analysts and journalists will say it in order to keep themselves from becoming a target for saying something that the masses deem to be "politically incorrect." The apostate "imams" in the West will adhere to the same tired cliché in order to avoid a backlash from the disbelieving societies in which they've chosen to reside. The point is, people know that it's foolish, but they keep repeating it regardless because they're afraid of the consequences of deviating from the script.


There are exceptions among the disbelievers, no doubt, people who will unabashedly declare that jihad and the laws of the Shari'ah – as well as everything else deemed taboo by the Islam-is-a-peaceful-religion crowd – are in fact completely Islamic, but they tend to be people with far less credibility who are painted as a social fringe, so their voices are dismissed and a large segment of the ignorant masses continues believing the false narrative. As such, it becomes important for us to clarify to the West in unequivocal terms – yet again – why we hate you and why we fight you.

The exasperated tone is grimly amusing.

The article then goes into a Buzzfeed-style 6-point checklist counting all the ways we fail Islam. Worth a look.

http://www.clarionproject.org/factsheets-files/islamic-state-magazine-dabiq-fifteen-breaking-the-cross.pdf#page=30 (http://www.clarionproject.org/factsheets-files/islamic-state-magazine-dabiq-fifteen-breaking-the-cross.pdf#page=30)
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on August 19, 2016, 09:16:48 AM
Does anybody think the ISIS types are not extremely religious in their motivation and ideology? I think the debate is to the extent they represent the other Muslims who disagree with them. You know, the people they hate and fight far more than the West and call apostates.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on August 19, 2016, 09:22:55 AM
By the way they found the guy who killed those two Muslims in New York: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-new-york-shooting-idUSKCN10O0X4

So I guess we might soon find out what his motive was. Weird.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Hamilcar on August 19, 2016, 09:45:39 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 08:50:05 AM
Quote from: Hamilcar on August 19, 2016, 06:33:34 AM
Timely piece by Sam Harris on "What Jihadis Really Want"
https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/what-do-jihadists-really-want

Straight from the source.

An excellent podcast.

It is rather ironic - the jihadis could not have done a better job proving the point people like Harris has been making for the last decade if they had asked Harris to write the article himself.

"They hate us for our freedom". A seemingly trite, silly statement that actually is an almost perfect summation of exactly why they do in fact hate us.

If it wasn't so serious, I would have said that they trolled Harris.

And it's ironic how GWB's often-mocked line is actually true.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 09:52:12 AM
Imam and His Assistant Killed in a Shooting Near a Mosque in Queens

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/13/nyregion/queens-mosque-shooting.html?_r=0

I guess we'll never know what killed them.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: Hamilcar on August 19, 2016, 06:33:34 AM
Timely piece by Sam Harris on "What Jihadis Really Want"
https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/what-do-jihadists-really-want (https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/what-do-jihadists-really-want)

Straight from the source.

I like it when Harris talks about ESP and killing those who think differently than him.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 10:34:06 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: Hamilcar on August 19, 2016, 06:33:34 AM
Timely piece by Sam Harris on "What Jihadis Really Want"
https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/what-do-jihadists-really-want (https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/what-do-jihadists-really-want)

Straight from the source.

I like it when Harris talks about ESP and killing those who think differently than him.

Any evidence of the latter (other than voices in your head)?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on August 19, 2016, 10:36:49 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 09:52:12 AM
Imam and His Assistant Killed in a Shooting Near a Mosque in Queens

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/13/nyregion/queens-mosque-shooting.html?_r=0

I guess we'll never know what killed them.

WTF? I posted on this like two posts before yours and they caught the guy so why would't they?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 10:36:53 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 19, 2016, 09:16:48 AM
Does anybody think the ISIS types are not extremely religious in their motivation and ideology?

Absolutely. You here all the time that terrorism is not about religion, but about politics, economics, colonialism, yadda, yadda, yadda. religion is just the cover for their actions, and they would be doing this regardless.

People even point out how they are terrible Muslims - you have certainly heard how the 9/11 terrorists visited strip clubs, for example, to "prove" that they were not actually motivated by religion.

Quote

I think the debate is to the extent they represent the other Muslims who disagree with them. You know, the people they hate and fight far more than the West and call apostates.

I don't find that debate particularly interesting at all, myself. Of course they do not represent other Muslims who specifically repudiate violence, for example.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 10:38:51 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 10:34:06 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: Hamilcar on August 19, 2016, 06:33:34 AM
Timely piece by Sam Harris on "What Jihadis Really Want"
https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/what-do-jihadists-really-want (https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/what-do-jihadists-really-want)

Straight from the source.

I like it when Harris talks about ESP and killing those who think differently than him.

Any evidence of the latter (other than voices in your head)?

Don't bother engaging him. Harris has explained that comment a thousand times, and Raz and people like Raz don't care. They aren't interested in discussion, or actually understanding what people are trying to communicate.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 11:01:01 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 10:38:51 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 10:34:06 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: Hamilcar on August 19, 2016, 06:33:34 AM
Timely piece by Sam Harris on "What Jihadis Really Want"
https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/what-do-jihadists-really-want (https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/what-do-jihadists-really-want)

Straight from the source.

I like it when Harris talks about ESP and killing those who think differently than him.

Any evidence of the latter (other than voices in your head)?

Don't bother engaging him. Harris has explained that comment a thousand times, and Raz and people like Raz don't care. They aren't interested in discussion, or actually understanding what people are trying to communicate.

Fair enough. I think Harris is a smart guy with some interesting ideas, and while I don't agree with him on all things, he is not at all the kind of person people like Raz try to paint him as.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 11:05:21 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 11:01:01 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 10:38:51 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 10:34:06 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 09:53:35 AM
Quote from: Hamilcar on August 19, 2016, 06:33:34 AM
Timely piece by Sam Harris on "What Jihadis Really Want"
https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/what-do-jihadists-really-want (https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/what-do-jihadists-really-want)

Straight from the source.

I like it when Harris talks about ESP and killing those who think differently than him.

Any evidence of the latter (other than voices in your head)?

Don't bother engaging him. Harris has explained that comment a thousand times, and Raz and people like Raz don't care. They aren't interested in discussion, or actually understanding what people are trying to communicate.

Fair enough. I think Harris is a smart guy with some interesting ideas, and while I don't agree with him on all things, he is not at all the kind of person people like Raz try to paint him as.

Of course not - he trots out the same two "things that Harris believes" every single time his name comes up, and in both cases Harris would unequivocally state that his position is not at all what is claimed, and yet that doesn't stop people like Raz from just repeating it anyway. They don't care about the truth, or honest discourse.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 11:19:30 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 11:05:21 AM


Of course not - he trots out the same two "things that Harris believes" every single time his name comes up, and in both cases Harris would unequivocally state that his position is not at all what is claimed, and yet that doesn't stop people like Raz from just repeating it anyway. They don't care about the truth, or honest discourse.

Because he's a hate-filled and despicable man.  Harris has regularly made repulsive statements and when called on them claims he didn't actually say them.  He's often despised in the atheist movement itself for his reprehensible behavior.

Example:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/09/16/the-saga-of-slippery-sam/
QuoteYesterday, I brought on the wrath of the defenders of Slippery Sam. Sam Harris has an amazing talent: he can say the most awful things, and a horde of helpful apologists will rise up in righteous fury and simultaneously insist that he didn't really say that, and yeah, he said that, but it only makes sense. And they have a battery of excuses that boil down to another contradiction: you must parse his words very carefully, one by one, and yet also his words must be understood in their greater context. They actually have a lot in common with radical Islamists: the sacred holy texts can only be understood in their original language, and the appropriate way to study them is by rote memorization.

So, in a report literally titled racial profiling, we're told that it's not about racial profiling at all; the new line is that it's about "anti-profiling", that we should be able to look at a group of people and easily rule out on appearance alone a whole bunch of individuals and make security so much easier. So people who look like grandmas and little old Asian ladies and five year old Scandinavian girls are all perfectly safe, would never harm a fly, and we should just wave them through the lines at the security gates. We should just screen youngish to middle-aged men, because old people and women and children are harmless.

See? He's not about racism at all, it's all about ageism and sexism. Nothing to see here, folks.

Read more: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/09/16/the-saga-of-slippery-sam/#ixzz4HnNcAaB9

But at the same time, it's a lie. Practically the first thing he says is this:

    We should be honest. We're looking for suicidal jihadists.

suicidal-jihadist

It's not "anti-profiling" at all, whatever that is. He's got some sort of vaguely undefined search image in his head for what we ought to be looking, and he's not very clear on what it is, except that it's "suicidal jihadists", and not Norwegian grandmas. I think it's something like that guy on the right. I quite agree that if a wild-eyed long-bearded fellow with an AK-47 and an explosive belt shows up at the airport, you shouldn't let him on the plane. But then, the 9/11 hijackers showed up at the airport clean shaven, nicely dressed in Western clothing, and acted professionally to get aboard. We actually aren't looking for mad boogey men — we're looking for rational, determined human beings with evil plans. I don't know what they look like. I'd rather the people in charge of my safety did not have narrow preconceptions about what they look like. Slippery Sam has bigoted ideas about what they look like, and wants that implemented as policy.

In his earlier defense of profiling, he was quite clear on who he wanted singled out for special attention.

    We should profile Muslims, or anyone who looks like he or she could conceivably be Muslim, and we should be honest about it.

He's very big on declaring his honesty, except when someone calls him on it, and then the familiar dodges begin.

I'm also seeing this from his defenders. How can you simultaneously say that no, this isn't about targeting Muslims for special screening, but hey, haven't you noticed that all the terrorism in the world is caused by Muslims? I just want to sit them all down in a special room that simply plays back their own words at them, and let them argue forever.

Their big gotcha right now is that Slippery Sam said this:

    If Jerry Seinfeld goes through the airport and gets the same search as someone who looks like Osama Bin Laden does, that's a crazy misuse of resources.

In the context (oh, that again — how dare I listen to the whole damn interview?) of a discussion of why airports need to profile people who look Muslim, I heard this as yet more special pleading for giving one class of people a pass, while holding up another class of people. It turns out that no, he literally meant Jerry Seinfeld specifically, in comparison with people who look like Osama Bin Laden generally. His whole argument is that celebrities like Jerry Seinfeld and Betty White shouldn't be treated to the same security measures as the common people, because it's a drain on resources.

    We've got $10 worth of attention. If you spend a dollar here, you've got nine to spend elsewhere.

I had no idea such a substantial fraction of our Homeland Security budget was being thrown away on useless searches of famous celebrities, and that so much of my time standing in line was wasted because Jerry Seinfeld was getting the same treatment as the thousand other people in line.

I'm sorry, Defenders of Slippery Sam, but if that's seriously your argument, you've lost it. It makes no sense. It represents a total lack of perspective on the problem. Celebrities are not a major drain on security, and I can't imagine how you or Slippery Sam propose to deal with it: a general dictum to screeners to give preferential treatment to people who look famous? A specific list of famous people who should be allowed to cut in line? I look forward to the day when I arrive at the airport and a Homeland Security flunky has to check their list to see if I'm Tom Cruise or Betty White. That'll save money and time, I'm sure. I'm also going to have to approve giving carte blanche to movie stars and comedians, because Lord knows every one of them is rational and stable.

Once again, the inconsistencies and pure stupidity of Sam Harris's anti-Muslim bigotry have led his devotees to plunge even deeper into ridiculous and bogus 'interpretations' to support him.

I like Adam Lee's succinct summary of the Harris problem: "That's precisely the problem with what Harris said: either it's racist, or it's meaningless."

Read more: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/09/16/the-saga-of-slippery-sam/#ixzz4HnNk2C7N

Those people who immediate come to his defense and regurgitate the weak excuses Harris makes... What should we call them?  His clan?  His caste?  I know, his Tribe.  That's a good one.  I think it accurately describes those unthinking, irrational idiots who intentionally propagandize themselves with his pod-casts and will say anything to defend a deplorable man.  My tribe, right or wrong, right Berkut?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on August 19, 2016, 11:20:59 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on August 19, 2016, 09:09:51 AM

The exasperated tone is grimly amusing.

The article then goes into a Buzzfeed-style 6-point checklist counting all the ways we fail Islam. Worth a look.

http://www.clarionproject.org/factsheets-files/islamic-state-magazine-dabiq-fifteen-breaking-the-cross.pdf#page=30 (http://www.clarionproject.org/factsheets-files/islamic-state-magazine-dabiq-fifteen-breaking-the-cross.pdf#page=30)


Damn Legbiter, you're from a failed state/rogue nation, you support Trump and now you're quoting from an ISIS website,
you really are going to be on an NSA / Dept.homeland watchlist.  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 11:21:11 AM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 11:21:49 AM
:yawn:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 11:22:58 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 11:21:11 AM
:lol:

I really like the part of the article that points out how ridiculous it is that you have to actually look at Harris comments in context to understand what he is trying to say.

WHAT A CRAZY IDEA!
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 11:25:45 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 11:22:58 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 11:21:11 AM
:lol:

I really like the part of the article that points out how ridiculous it is that you have to actually look at Harris comments in context to understand what he is trying to say.

WHAT A CRAZY IDEA!

What sort of statement is require for you to turn on your own tribe?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 11:27:17 AM
I'll let you know once I decide to join one.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 11:29:56 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 11:27:17 AM
I'll let you know once I decide to join one.

You aren't an Athiest anymore?  I am genuinely surprised.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 11:31:15 AM
I just cannot imagine why people choose to ignore Raz. He brings so much to the discussion!
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 11:37:34 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 11:31:15 AM
I just cannot imagine why people choose to ignore Raz. He brings so much to the discussion!

Not even a very good dodge.  Do you even believe your unique little snowflake bit?  It's absurd and very difficult to take seriously.  It doesn't take a genius to predict exactly what you are going to say when faced with your tribal bugaboos.  But go on, pretend to ignore me.  That's what a good tribalism does when he can't accept facts that don't fit his world view.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Hamilcar on August 19, 2016, 11:59:23 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 11:31:15 AM
I just cannot imagine why people choose to ignore Raz. He brings so much to the discussion!

He is like grumbler that way.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 12:00:16 PM
Your right Raz, I just cannot intellectually compete with you - you operate at a level of rationality and reason I simply cannot contend with, so I am forced to retreat and refuse to engage with such a towering intellect.

You've figured me out. Damn.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Jacob on August 19, 2016, 12:20:02 PM
The derailing of this thread is a minor act of terrorism. I hope you're all proud of yourselves.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 12:28:06 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 12:00:16 PM
Your right Raz, I just cannot intellectually compete with you - you operate at a level of rationality and reason I simply cannot contend with, so I am forced to retreat and refuse to engage with such a towering intellect.

You've figured me out. Damn.

Still dodging.  It's not that you can't come to terms with me.  It's that you can't come to terms with yourself
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 12:29:17 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 19, 2016, 12:20:02 PM
The derailing of this thread is a minor act of terrorism. I hope you're all proud of yourselves.

Was another thread about how evil brown people are truly a great loss?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 19, 2016, 01:16:32 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 10:36:53 AM

Absolutely. You here all the time that terrorism is not about religion, but about politics, economics, colonialism, yadda, yadda, yadda. religion is just the cover for their actions, and they would be doing this regardless.

People even point out how they are terrible Muslims - you have certainly heard how the 9/11 terrorists visited strip clubs, for example, to "prove" that they were not actually motivated by religion.

there was a nice article a bit back on how this tendency to claim that it's about politics, economics, colonialism, etc is actually pretty denigrating towards muslims and not much more than a new version of Eurocentrism/seeing everything through a western lens. As if they're incapable of doing something themselves, as if they lack agency. Meaning that, yes islam is a big problem, this form of eurocentrism is just a big a part of the problem.

Quote from: google translate
In what way Islam is indeed the problem

an orientalist may say something?


It should not always be newspaper reading amateurs


The article below is a brief response to the thesis of the youngest Islam article by Sacha Vliegen, nicely summed up in its title claim that Islam is not the problem. But it might as well have been a response to one of the many pieces on that day after day in De Volkskrant and the NRC, or De Standaard and De Morgen appear. They all start from the same basic security: Islam is not the problem, if it is not the solution. While in reality Islam is a problem for nearly fourteen centuries, although it is for us to be more acute by the appearance of, indeed, a different problem.

Deciding that something 'the problem' might after you have examined, including the alleged problem of it, and then you realized after considering that suspicion is unsustainable. With regard to Islam, however, said without any knowledge beforehand, just to cut off the debate on that, and then to fill the majority of your text with pedantry about full stops and commas, or anything relevant in the context of sociologists slang, and finally wonderfully conclude that 'there' innocence of Islam "appears. It is all in all a very arrogant fuss: Islam criticism dismiss as beneath your level while you are hit up to that level, in reality, never themselves.

I defy anyone who denies or dismisses the Islamic problem into a contradictory debate. So far, no advocate or shoulder collector for Islam to pass the test.

egocentrism

Imagine you are visiting in hospital your old father there is shackled to his bed by the window could only see a dash blue sky. You on the other hand through the window can look over the whole area. He asks you to describe the tree over there across the street whether he is already in bloom? That you promise to do. And you begin to describe window through which to see the tree: it is made of wood, varnished with silver handle. Yes, but, he says, now describe yet another tree! And you look in that direction, but now you start to describe your glasses through which you can see the tree: a hip model, green frame and so on.

Irritating, is not it? Well, that's how the unified Islamic afschermers enter the debate about Islam. There should be told what is wants, it can be about anything, as long as it does not respect Islam. Preferably, it is about something much nabijers, such as colonialism, a thousand years younger than Islam; or discrimination by natives that ugly, thousands of kilometers from Mecca; or American imperialism or the Zionist entity. The other, however, the saint of the postmodern worldview, it may be sung in the abstract, but it should not really otherwise specifically. Our own value framework must remain at the center, and not only ours, but even (as we make our way) of their world.

No tree there in that uninteresting distance, your lens is the true center of the progressive worldview. For example, the assertion of the right people that Muslims are poor and alone therefore commit violence is not only wrong what the motive for the violence concerns (she suggests actually poor alike with violent, phew!), But it also betrays a hopelessly Eurocentrism. In some Muslim neighborhoods in our big cities you could gain an impression of poverty, but who looks a little further, until in the Saudi palaces, Islam will certainly not associate with poverty. Our progressives are villagers, provincial little wanting to stay under their bell tower and try to understand the world in terms village. They call themselves cosmopolitans, as if their village to do resemble the colorful world, but actually they are just projecting their own small-mindedness on the world.

Islam and agency

Muslims who take seriously, as we do critics of Islam, recognizing that they themselves have agency, that they themselves have their own beliefs that can not be traced to Western or other external factors fall, and that they can act from there. Islam has from the beginning itself conducted wars of aggression that were not the fault of the infidels, the Jews or the not yet existing crusaders. Else you may miszien also to Islam, he has certainly the capacity itself to undertake anything.

Conversely, did you Islam friends with their numerous forms of denunciation of Islam criticism. Their arguments are of two types. First there are the obvious lies, for instance, that Muhammad was the first feminist and slave liberator, or that all religions are equally bad, or that al-Andalus was an exemplary multicultural state, or (as the Pope says) the jihādstrijders' only for make money "and" Islam also preaches love. " The lies we're not here to worship with a discussion. On the other hand there are the numerous scattering tactics which lies about Islam be avoided by starting on other matters, often true, and then pretending to imply anything about Islam.

Usually scattering tactics which the shape of the well-known slogan among theologians, "It is not what it says." You do see Islam terrorists call can be heard Allahu Akbar, but there is something different 'in reality' behind. Your lying eyes deceive you: for example, it seems so obvious that Islam is the motive of the terrorists, they say it finally themselves, but our sociologists and mediaduiders know better than they do. Finally, your eyes make you into thinking that the sun revolves around the earth, while the sophisticated explanation is that the earth revolves around the sun. According to this model it applies so learned as a whole in order to deny the evidence of your eyes, and do so Islam friends so with clear conscience.

Left says that the real motive was frustration about experiencing racism (like eg not come from Muslim countries, most Syriëstrijders, where they are the dominant group and discrimination do not suffer) or poverty (like Osama Bin Laden was not a billionaire), or a highly personal mental impairment. It then goes to 'madmen' or, as David Cameron has said, to "monsters." And on social media assert many of both sides that they were "idiots" is. Big words to conceal that one is intellectually lazy or unable to parse the more ideological motive.

On the right side saying among other Christian fundamentalists and the Nouvelle Droite it all because of the loss of one's own tradition, which then creates a quizzical void that will fill like Islam. The nationalists argue that it is disguised ethnic settlements, and consider any request by Islam as the natural religion of the desert dwellers, where nothing is wrong as long as they just keep them in their own country. All, both left and right, they would like to talk about immediate factors, largely on their own world. Those who call themselves anti-racist, here best even realize that right themselves, in their own terminology, white supremacists. According to them, do something an Arab or Turk impossible itself, there must always be a white hand behind it. Right has its own variant: conspiracy theories that Muslim fanatics are all puppets of the CIA and the Zionist world conspiracy.

Islam Friends at war

The common denominator of the whole range of Islamic-shielding theory is misdirection, diverting attention to your own favorite theme, any but especially Islam. One result is that one remains willfully blind regarding our own content on Islam, a theme that articles like that of a Rik Coolsaet, one Els Keytsmans or indeed Sacha Flying therefore completely and utterly remains out of sight. Another consequence is that contemporary facts about the Muslim world but can indicate quite blurred in their relations with the Islam problem.

Thus, here as in numerous articles Islam, established a link between the resistance against Islam (elsewhere 'Islamophobia') and the invasions, or bombing of Muslim countries. Among means you see some criticism of Islam means in practice! Until those ailing repeated, I still take the trouble to refute him.

Without a single exception, all political leaders who ordered violence against Muslim countries since September 11 2001, Islam oversold. No word of criticism of Islam has ever come across their lips. According to the interior minister Jan Jambon, whose troops have shot some jihādmoslims and whose government is participating in the bombing against the Caliphate, Islam has criticized "the worst possible answer" to Islamic terror. All the politicians involved have explicitly stated not to fight Islam. John Kerry has even claimed to fight in front of it, against the so-called IS-biasing collectors of the "true, peaceful Islam. That is: to kill Muslims to defend Islam. So you see where islamofilie leads.

Where is the problem then?

On the other hand, we do read a positive message in Vliegens reflections on Islam problem. One must question not see loose from its context. They can bring our society but threatened by some new developments in ourselves that in previous centuries were not addressed.

The first is yet another external factor, namely the physical presence of Islam in our midst through millions of individuals who adhere to Islam. It is largely through their presence that Islamic terrorists could strike here. Modern air travel is in itself sufficient for some spectacular attacks like 9/11, but cooperated local subcultures of implanted Muslims to the current permanent climate of terror in Western Europe, see Molenbeek. That factor is not the cause of the Islam problem but an important contributor. Angela Merkel flatly lied when she claimed that "the terrorists want to stop Europe the influx of refugees," as if its own open border policy would allow a courageous gesture against terror. On the contrary, the Caliphate can not believe his luck with a simpleton which opens the floodgates for all kinds of terror agents.

A second factor is the first made possible: the intoxication of the European leaders has taken possession and is due seventy years of peace and prosperity, as well as intense operation of public opinion through the Gramscian cultural Marxism. They think that the laws of international human society no longer apply to them and that they can afford policies that have nevertheless proven throughout history that they lead to instability and civil war.

But even these two factors would not be as dramatic as the Europeans themselves would hold their course. Our ancestors led their welcome for a given alien not affected his whole family then had to come. They were not xenophobic or otherwise streamlined ideological, but had common sense. They led from hospitality to an off alien religion that these here its standards might impose halal meat and sabotaging lessons on the Armenian and Jewish genocide, the prohibition for Muslim women to marry unbelievers, and even female genital mutilation and now increasingly, polygamy. The immigrants would respect the indigenous culture that did comply, and to start itself respected instead of into perspective road.

Of this order is also the collapse of European demography. The growth of the Muslim population would seem less awful as its own population still grew or remained at least stable. Conversely, the low birth rate is justified because the world gets crowded but then it follows that we need to solve the overcrowding problems of countries without such responsibility? His stand on their very post-colonial independence, and in that regard we take them at their word: care for yourself for the consequences of your population explosion. De Lage Landen are overcrowded and silted, influx is not necessary.

The decisive factor worst and finally the self-hatred. Making negative factors more fatal than necessary and even poisons factors that should have been positive in itself. Thus own secularization should make us just skeptical and inaccessible to Islam (a contrario: the few remaining post-conciliar Christians, like the pope, true dhimmi sheep at the top), but by the key spooned self-hatred do neo-liberals unholy concessions to Islam. The increasing population share of the Muslims, now a negative factor, had a still majoritarian, disbelieved but remained healthy indigenous community can be safely absorbed and assimilated. Because the majority, however ashamed of themselves and managed to foist all kinds of guilt, which inspires yet limited Muslim minority them concern.

decision

The problem of Westerners is that they have lost faith, as Angela Merkel claims. That is a good and normal development, and in any case the type of evolution that a free society is entitled. From Islamic point of view is, moreover, scarcely matter what kind of unbelievers we, Christians or pagans or something else. We have, in each case not entitled to the sky nor on the earth, because both are reserved for Muslims. Islam is ultimately nothing more than megalomania (specifically: election delusion) of Mohammed, with a half billion extras who play his game. The merit or fault of the unbelievers are completely out there.

The problem of Islam comes from Islam itself forth, and it has imposed itself on us without being asked. Islam makes a statement, in its autonomous aggression, use of the weaknesses in our defense. He sees that both Christians and unbelievers defend themselves badly and are not motivated to defend himself. Christians are sentimental and masochistic, they think it is virtuous to be silly and let surprise itself. Most of today liberals are too few focused, too hedonistic, too ignorant of any religious worldview, and more particularly including the Islamic.

So there are two problems: an external threat Islam and an internal crisis of civilization in the West. In comparison, you can only get AIDS if you 'risky behavior' shows, and an AIDS virus is sweeping the area. Libertines from earlier generations certainly showed plenty of risk behavior, and yet were not AIDS because the virus did not exist - they were possibly or other diseases, like our society was before Islam's problem with other ailments. Conversely, the external threat of the virus could mean no risk for those who are not using risk behavior exposed.

Who thinks that "Islam is not the problem," so right, as well as the sworn celibate who finds that "the AIDS virus, the problem is not." For him, all investment in AIDS research wasted: the disease will not take him anyway. But we do not live in an ideal world. We live in a world where our society's right to decline or self-hatred, or confusion fully exercised by cultural Marxism, and thus become vulnerable to infiltration by destructive forces. Even such imperfect society like ours has however the right to survival, so they must be protected against her attackers. Like any effective strategy begins to self-defense by calling the attackers by name. One of them is called Islam.
http://www.doorbraak.be/nl/nieuws/welke-zin-de-islam-wel-degelijk-het-probleem
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 01:58:08 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 12:29:17 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 19, 2016, 12:20:02 PM
The derailing of this thread is a minor act of terrorism. I hope you're all proud of yourselves.

Was another thread about how evil brown people are truly a great loss?

Yes, see, this is the insight and intellectual honesty that makes you such a valued poster.

Because the entire point of all this is clearly that "brown people are evil". You have gotten right to the crux of the matter.

It is so great that Raz was able to save us from a constructive and insightful discussion about evil brown people. What an asset to the forum!
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Legbiter on August 19, 2016, 02:21:32 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDX23dxS.gif&hash=b1d5bfaa751b614c6e12c8ffe13e694b7ea6cbb9)
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 02:48:52 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 01:58:08 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 12:29:17 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 19, 2016, 12:20:02 PM
The derailing of this thread is a minor act of terrorism. I hope you're all proud of yourselves.

Was another thread about how evil brown people are truly a great loss?

Yes, see, this is the insight and intellectual honesty that makes you such a valued poster.

Because the entire point of all this is clearly that "brown people are evil". You have gotten right to the crux of the matter.

It is so great that Raz was able to save us from a constructive and insightful discussion about evil brown people. What an asset to the forum!

First post about an evil Somali.  Second post a sarcastic post about it not being a Norwegian.  Then we go to an evil Algerian, and another sarcastic post how we shall never know what the motive was.  Then we get some something from Sam Harris who supports racial profiling of evil brown people.  I see a pattern.  I'm sorry you don't.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on August 19, 2016, 02:50:27 PM
Also it was a thread started by mongers so it was DOA.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on August 19, 2016, 03:21:19 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 02:48:52 PM
I see a pattern.

Yes. You love to intimidate and shut people up by claiming they are evil. That is a pattern. A tiresome one that makes me loath you immensely.

I noticed you seemed real honestly interested in that case of those two poor Bangladeshis...oh wait you don't give a fuck about them, you just bring it up to use as a weapon to attack people. Just like the Turkish stuff.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on August 19, 2016, 03:26:17 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 10:36:53 AM
Absolutely. You here all the time that terrorism is not about religion, but about politics, economics, colonialism, yadda, yadda, yadda. religion is just the cover for their actions, and they would be doing this regardless.

People even point out how they are terrible Muslims - you have certainly heard how the 9/11 terrorists visited strip clubs, for example, to "prove" that they were not actually motivated by religion.

It kind of reminds me a bit of all the people insisting that the Crusades were not about religion. Or were motivated by some sort of economic conditions. But to be fair that is just Marxist historians trying to smash round pegs into square holes. This is probably something different.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Jacob on August 19, 2016, 03:33:27 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 19, 2016, 03:26:17 PM
It kind of reminds me a bit of all the people insisting that the Crusades were not about religion. Or were motivated by some sort of economic conditions. But to be fair that is just Marxist historians trying to smash round pegs into square holes. This is probably something different.

You don't think there were economic motivations involved in the Crusades?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 03:36:12 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 19, 2016, 03:33:27 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 19, 2016, 03:26:17 PM
It kind of reminds me a bit of all the people insisting that the Crusades were not about religion. Or were motivated by some sort of economic conditions. But to be fair that is just Marxist historians trying to smash round pegs into square holes. This is probably something different.

You don't think there were economic motivations involved in the Crusades?

Of course there were - but it was not economic motivations that made people decide that the place to go economically get involved was modern day Israel.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Jacob on August 19, 2016, 03:44:45 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 03:36:12 PM
Of course there were - but it was not economic motivations that made people decide that the place to go economically get involved was modern day Israel.

Fair enough.

I reckon that it was economic factors that led enough people to think that going overseas and conquering things was an attractive proposition, while religious factors determined the choice of targets and governed the organization and justification of the enterprise.

That's a vast generalization, of course.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 03:50:25 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 19, 2016, 03:44:45 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 03:36:12 PM
Of course there were - but it was not economic motivations that made people decide that the place to go economically get involved was modern day Israel.

Fair enough.

I reckon that it was economic factors that led enough people to think that going overseas and conquering things was an attractive proposition, while religious factors determined the choice of targets and governed the organization and justification of the enterprise.

That's a vast generalization, of course.

I disagree. For 99% of crusaders, religious fervour was the predominant motivation, imo. Now, you could argue about the leaders etc. but for the rank-and-file crusaders, it wasn't economic motivation.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Sheilbh on August 19, 2016, 03:53:10 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 10:36:53 AMAbsolutely. You here all the time that terrorism is not about religion, but about politics, economics, colonialism, yadda, yadda, yadda. religion is just the cover for their actions, and they would be doing this regardless.

People even point out how they are terrible Muslims - you have certainly heard how the 9/11 terrorists visited strip clubs, for example, to "prove" that they were not actually motivated by religion.
I don't think the two are necessarily mutually exclusive. I don't know why people are keen on focusing on the theological aspect alone because it seems to me as unhelpful as fighting the Cold War mainly through an understanding of Marxist-Leninist theory. It's important, but it's not that important and there are multiple other factors. It's not to say that the theological angle doesn't matter but that it's generally, in my view, not sufficient without other aspects.

I think the point about homegrown terrorists and the kids going to Syria not being good Muslims is first of all true on the evidence and secondly important. If what really matters is religiousity then that points to a very different approach to intelligence and to counter-radicalisation for example. It would probably be one that would be focused on the Mosque and traditional community structures, which was the approach after 9/11. But the profile of European youths committing terrorism or going to Syria isn't particularly religious. The striking commonality is petty delinquency and alienation which I think requires a different intelligence and counter-radicalisation approach, I'd suggest it's one that's got far more in common with work against gangs than a religion based approach.

I think that is a change since the emergence of ISIS. It seems they're appealing to a different sort of person than al-Qaeda inspired terrorism did (only speaking about in the West). Between 9/11 and ISIS the people who were inspired by al-Qaeda normally did exhibit a sudden and intense interest in Islam and would cut themselves off from people they perceived as apostates.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Habbaku on August 19, 2016, 03:53:15 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 19, 2016, 03:44:45 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 03:36:12 PM
Of course there were - but it was not economic motivations that made people decide that the place to go economically get involved was modern day Israel.

Fair enough.

I reckon that it was economic factors that led enough people to think that going overseas and conquering things was an attractive proposition, while religious factors determined the choice of targets and governed the organization and justification of the enterprise.

That's a vast generalization, of course.

There were significant economic factors involved with the Crusades, yes, but the First Crusade in particular saw the Crusaders involved mortgage their lands, sell as much property as they could, and take massive loans so that they could go on Crusade...and not settle in the lands that were conquered.  Primarily, the economic factors involved in having the Crusades get off the ground was the ready access to credit and resources from stored-up wealth, not the desire to hit it rich in the Holy Land by conquering an area that was not particularly known for its wealth.

The myth that Crusaders were going off in search of riches is mostly an invention of Marxist interpretations of the events, as Valmy noted, and doesn't stand up under scrutiny.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Sheilbh on August 19, 2016, 03:54:19 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 03:50:25 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 19, 2016, 03:44:45 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 03:36:12 PM
Of course there were - but it was not economic motivations that made people decide that the place to go economically get involved was modern day Israel.

Fair enough.

I reckon that it was economic factors that led enough people to think that going overseas and conquering things was an attractive proposition, while religious factors determined the choice of targets and governed the organization and justification of the enterprise.

That's a vast generalization, of course.

I disagree. For 99% of crusaders, religious fervour was the predominant motivation, imo. Now, you could argue about the leaders etc. but for the rank-and-file crusaders, it wasn't economic motivation.
I'm not sure. Hasn't there been research that showed a huge proportion of the crusading knights were younger sons - ie. no inheritance? I think religion was a part of it but it's pretty analogous to the colonisation of the new world.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 03:54:56 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 19, 2016, 03:53:15 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 19, 2016, 03:44:45 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 03:36:12 PM
Of course there were - but it was not economic motivations that made people decide that the place to go economically get involved was modern day Israel.

Fair enough.

I reckon that it was economic factors that led enough people to think that going overseas and conquering things was an attractive proposition, while religious factors determined the choice of targets and governed the organization and justification of the enterprise.

That's a vast generalization, of course.

There were significant economic factors involved with the Crusades, yes, but the First Crusade in particular saw the Crusaders involved mortgage their lands, sell as much property as they could, and take massive loans so that they could go on Crusade...and not settle in the lands that were conquered.  Primarily, the economic factors involved in having the Crusades get off the ground was the ready access to credit and resources from stored-up wealth, not the desire to hit it rich in the Holy Land by conquering an area that was not particularly known for its wealth.

The myth that Crusaders were going off in search of riches is mostly an invention of Marxist interpretations of the events, as Valmy noted, as doesn't stand up under scrutiny.

Yeah, the problem with Marxism is that it cannot fathom a motivation other than economical. That's why Marxists so completely misunderstood religion.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on August 19, 2016, 03:55:09 PM
Did the Crusades help people's finances? :unsure:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 03:56:29 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 19, 2016, 03:54:19 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 03:50:25 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 19, 2016, 03:44:45 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 19, 2016, 03:36:12 PM
Of course there were - but it was not economic motivations that made people decide that the place to go economically get involved was modern day Israel.

Fair enough.

I reckon that it was economic factors that led enough people to think that going overseas and conquering things was an attractive proposition, while religious factors determined the choice of targets and governed the organization and justification of the enterprise.

That's a vast generalization, of course.

I disagree. For 99% of crusaders, religious fervour was the predominant motivation, imo. Now, you could argue about the leaders etc. but for the rank-and-file crusaders, it wasn't economic motivation.
I'm not sure. Hasn't there been research that showed a huge proportion of the crusading knights were younger sons - ie. no inheritance? I think religion was a part of it but it's pretty analogous to the colonisation of the new world.

Saying that poorer people are more prone to religious fervour is not the same as saying that religious fervour is economically motivated.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 03:58:08 PM
By the way: crusades hijack! Languish's first!  :lol:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Sheilbh on August 19, 2016, 04:00:33 PM
But it's not about poverty. Younger sons had an economic interest in going and conquering new lands - the same motivation in crusades in Germany or the Norman invasion of England or Sicily. In addition very often they had sincerely held religious motivations and possibly socially too (the effect of Romances and the idea of chivalry).
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Habbaku on August 19, 2016, 04:04:48 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 19, 2016, 03:55:09 PM
Did the Crusades help people's finances? :unsure:

Some, certainly, but it was mostly a rather large drain on everyone involved.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Habbaku on August 19, 2016, 04:06:10 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 19, 2016, 04:00:33 PM
But it's not about poverty. Younger sons had an economic interest in going and conquering new lands - the same motivation in crusades in Germany or the Norman invasion of England or Sicily. In addition very often they had sincerely held religious motivations and possibly socially too (the effect of Romances and the idea of chivalry).

If that were true, why then did these supposed second sons not settle in the lands that they supposedly conquered for economic interests?  The overwhelming majority of the first wave of Crusaders returned home after Jerusalem was taken and the political situation settled in the aftermath.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Habbaku on August 19, 2016, 04:07:03 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 03:58:08 PM
By the way: crusades hijack! Languish's first!  :lol:

Hm.  I think we've had a few.  I know I have posted about the First Crusade on more than one occasion here as it's a strong interest of mine.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Hamilcar on August 19, 2016, 04:08:05 PM
Let's get back on topic: Isis claims responsibility for first terror attack in Russia after men try to kill police with gun and axes near Moscow
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/isis-terror-attacks-news-latest-russia-moscow-balashikha-police-gun-axe-allegiance-video-chechen-a7198731.html
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Hamilcar on August 19, 2016, 04:09:13 PM
Here is the always-informative Rukhmini Callimachi on Fresh Air talking about ISIS: http://www.npr.org/2016/08/11/489555425/inside-the-islamic-states-movement-to-spread-terror-all-over-the-world
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 04:12:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 19, 2016, 03:21:19 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 02:48:52 PM
I see a pattern.

Yes. You love to intimidate and shut people up by claiming they are evil. That is a pattern. A tiresome one that makes me loath you immensely.

I noticed you seemed real honestly interested in that case of those two poor Bangladeshis...oh wait you don't give a fuck about them, you just bring it up to use as a weapon to attack people. Just like the Turkish stuff.

Who here did I just claim was evil?  Who did I intimidate?  I didn't know you loathe me, though.   :(  This thread looked a lot like another excuse to go on about how bad the Muslims are.  That has really begun to annoy me.  It annoyed me when folks here cheer the mass murder in Egypt.  Then the perversion of justice where the survivors are sentenced to death for the government killing their fellow protestors.  It annoyed me when every bad thing that happened in Turkey was blamed on the "Islamist" Erdogan including suicide bombings on his own security forces.  It annoyed me when I saw the glee that people here when it was reported that the Turkish military was firing cannon indiscriminately on civilian buildings.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Brain on August 19, 2016, 04:13:13 PM
Cannon kicked so much ass for a fat guy.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Hamilcar on August 19, 2016, 04:13:16 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 04:12:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 19, 2016, 03:21:19 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 02:48:52 PM
I see a pattern.

Yes. You love to intimidate and shut people up by claiming they are evil. That is a pattern. A tiresome one that makes me loath you immensely.

I noticed you seemed real honestly interested in that case of those two poor Bangladeshis...oh wait you don't give a fuck about them, you just bring it up to use as a weapon to attack people. Just like the Turkish stuff.

Who here did I just claim was evil?  Who did I intimidate?  I didn't know you loathe me, though.   :(  This thread looked a lot like another excuse to go on about how bad the Muslims are.  That has really begun to annoy me.  It annoyed me when folks here cheer the mass murder in Egypt.  Then the perversion of justice where the survivors are sentenced to death for the government killing their fellow protestors.  It annoyed me when every bad thing that happened in Turkey was blamed on the "Islamist" Erdogan including suicide bombings on his own security forces.  It annoyed me when I saw the glee that people here when it was reported that the Turkish military was firing cannon indiscriminately on civilian buildings.

Take your meds.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 04:14:54 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 19, 2016, 04:00:33 PM
But it's not about poverty. Younger sons had an economic interest in going and conquering new lands - the same motivation in crusades in Germany or the Norman invasion of England or Sicily. In addition very often they had sincerely held religious motivations and possibly socially too (the effect of Romances and the idea of chivalry).

I think this underplays the religious motivation, though.

I believe there is a link between economic* position and religious zeal, but it does not simply mean people use religious zeal as a cover to get rich. Rather, people who are less invested in the stability of the economic system tend towards zealotry and radicalism, and religion often provides an ample venue to espouse such radicalism.

*And, it is worth noting, it's not the destitute people who do that - rather it's the "lower middle class" - people who are part of the elite by some quirk of birth, yet suffer from the "status deficit"**. That's why it's the third sons of nobility, and not peasants, who end up as religious zealots. And the same mechanism applies to a certain class of Muslim men today.

**And, unlike simple "revolutionary radicalism", religion provides a good way to satisfy that deficit, because it is already ingrained in the broader social system. So while a secular revolutionary/radical is not afforded a status recognition from a broader society, a religious zealot is - because he may be not as smart, or rich, or succesful as his neighbour - but he makes up for it with piety. So his social position grows as a result without a need to get rich. Again, parallels to modern day jihadists and the position they enjoy in Muslim societies can be established.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Sheilbh on August 19, 2016, 04:22:40 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 04:14:54 PM
I think this underplays the religious motivation, though.

I believe there is a link about economic* situation and religious zeal, but it does not simply mean people use religious zeal as a cover to get rich. Rather, people who are less invested in the stability of the economic system tend towards zealotry and radicalism, and religion often provides an ample venue to espouse such radicalism.

*And, it is worth noting, it's not the destitute people who do that - rather it's the "lower middle class" - people who are part of the elite by some quirk of birth, yet suffer from the "status deficit". That's why it's the third sons of nobility, and not peasants, who end up as religious zealots. And the same mechanism applies to a certain class of Muslim men today.
There's nothing here I disagree with. I'm not saying how they balance up or that religion (and culture) is a cover for more material reasons. I just think economic, social/cultural and religious motivations can co-exist within the same person, and even moreso within the same huge social movement. Plus I think it's a natural bit of human psychology that even if you are doing something purely for your material gain you create other equal motivations for doing it that are more altruistic so you think well of yourself. I imagine that was perhaps especially the case in this age of Romances, chivalric codes, courtly love etc.

I wouldn't know enough to say how they should be balanced within - and across - the Crusades. I imagine there are differences over that whole period and all over Europe - I mane I'm particularly dubious how religiously motivated the Venetians were :P
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 04:23:40 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 19, 2016, 04:06:10 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 19, 2016, 04:00:33 PM
But it's not about poverty. Younger sons had an economic interest in going and conquering new lands - the same motivation in crusades in Germany or the Norman invasion of England or Sicily. In addition very often they had sincerely held religious motivations and possibly socially too (the effect of Romances and the idea of chivalry).

If that were true, why then did these supposed second sons not settle in the lands that they supposedly conquered for economic interests?  The overwhelming majority of the first wave of Crusaders returned home after Jerusalem was taken and the political situation settled in the aftermath.

Yeah. I think it is a mistake to conflate all crusades and treat them the same. I think the first crusade was mainly religious, the third was mainly political, the fourth was mainly motivated by greed.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 04:25:48 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 19, 2016, 04:22:40 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 04:14:54 PM
I think this underplays the religious motivation, though.

I believe there is a link about economic* situation and religious zeal, but it does not simply mean people use religious zeal as a cover to get rich. Rather, people who are less invested in the stability of the economic system tend towards zealotry and radicalism, and religion often provides an ample venue to espouse such radicalism.

*And, it is worth noting, it's not the destitute people who do that - rather it's the "lower middle class" - people who are part of the elite by some quirk of birth, yet suffer from the "status deficit". That's why it's the third sons of nobility, and not peasants, who end up as religious zealots. And the same mechanism applies to a certain class of Muslim men today.
There's nothing here I disagree with. I'm not saying how they balance up or that religion (and culture) is a cover for more material reasons. I just think economic, social/cultural and religious motivations can co-exist within the same person, and even moreso within the same huge social movement. Plus I think it's a natural bit of human psychology that even if you are doing something purely for your material gain you create other equal motivations for doing it that are more altruistic so you think well of yourself. I imagine that was perhaps especially the case in this age of Romances, chivalric codes, courtly love etc.

I wouldn't know enough to say how they should be balanced within - and across - the Crusades. I imagine there are differences over that whole period and all over Europe - I mane I'm particularly dubious how religiously motivated the Venetians were :P

True. But even the Pope at the time excommunicated the Fourth Crusade. :P
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 04:27:52 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 19, 2016, 04:07:03 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 03:58:08 PM
By the way: crusades hijack! Languish's first!  :lol:

Hm.  I think we've had a few.  I know I have posted about the First Crusade on more than one occasion here as it's a strong interest of mine.

Runciman.  :wub:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Oexmelin on August 19, 2016, 04:28:15 PM
"Marxist" interpretations of the Crusades owed a lot to thinkers of imperialism generally, who were far from being all Marxists themselves.

"Materialist explanations" are certainly a feature of Marxist historiography, but it is certainly not limited to it, and I think that a lot of what people on this board condemn as "Marxist history", they otherwise celebrate as economism - in giving a priority to economic explanations for human behavior.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 04:41:06 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 19, 2016, 04:28:15 PM
"Marxist" interpretations of the Crusades owed a lot to thinkers of imperialism generally, who were far from being all Marxists themselves.

"Materialist explanations" are certainly a feature of Marxist historiography, but it is certainly not limited to it, and I think that a lot of what people on this board condemn as "Marxist history", they otherwise celebrate as economism - in giving a priority to economic explanations for human behavior.

Yeah, I used to do that, but don't anymore.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Habbaku on August 19, 2016, 04:43:08 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 04:27:52 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 19, 2016, 04:07:03 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 03:58:08 PM
By the way: crusades hijack! Languish's first!  :lol:

Hm.  I think we've had a few.  I know I have posted about the First Crusade on more than one occasion here as it's a strong interest of mine.

Runciman.  :wub:

Pretty writing, but terribly outdated work.  There are plenty of modern works that do better with accuracy than he did.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Habbaku on August 19, 2016, 04:44:29 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on August 19, 2016, 04:28:15 PM
"Marxist" interpretations of the Crusades owed a lot to thinkers of imperialism generally, who were far from being all Marxists themselves.

"Materialist explanations" are certainly a feature of Marxist historiography, but it is certainly not limited to it, and I think that a lot of what people on this board condemn as "Marxist history", they otherwise celebrate as economism - in giving a priority to economic explanations for human behavior.

Economic interpretations certainly have their place, and make significant sense when put into proper context.  The problem is explaining everything through that lens, as many tend to when trying to explain things like religious fervor.  Not everyone is homo economicus.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Sheilbh on August 19, 2016, 04:46:15 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 19, 2016, 04:44:29 PMNot everyone is homo economicus.
I don't think anyone is.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Brain on August 19, 2016, 05:36:51 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 19, 2016, 04:46:15 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 19, 2016, 04:44:29 PMNot everyone is homo economicus.
I don't think anyone is.

I'm gay for pay.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on August 19, 2016, 05:42:10 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 19, 2016, 05:36:51 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 19, 2016, 04:46:15 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 19, 2016, 04:44:29 PMNot everyone is homo economicus.
I don't think anyone is.

I'm gay for pay.

Marti is pay for...well I can't rightly say. :hmm:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: grumbler on August 19, 2016, 06:11:02 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on August 19, 2016, 06:33:34 AM
Timely piece by Sam Harris on "What Jihadis Really Want"
https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/what-do-jihadists-really-want

Straight from the source.

The article had more interest for me when it came out.  Now, it is old news.

Sam Harris does do a good job of reading, though, doesn't he?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 19, 2016, 06:20:35 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 19, 2016, 04:46:15 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 19, 2016, 04:44:29 PMNot everyone is homo economicus.
I don't think anyone is.

Mono?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: grumbler on August 19, 2016, 06:23:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 19, 2016, 03:21:19 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 19, 2016, 02:48:52 PM
I see a pattern.

Yes. You love to intimidate and shut people up by claiming they are evil. That is a pattern. A tiresome one that makes me loath you immensely.

I noticed you seemed real honestly interested in that case of those two poor Bangladeshis...oh wait you don't give a fuck about them, you just bring it up to use as a weapon to attack people. Just like the Turkish stuff.

You should probably step back from the brink.  Try pretending, say, that Raz's posts are just some writings of a madman from the 19th century, that you can't directly respond to and shouldn't get emotionally involved in.  It might not work, but it can't hurt to try.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on August 22, 2016, 08:19:00 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 19, 2016, 04:23:40 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 19, 2016, 04:06:10 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 19, 2016, 04:00:33 PM
But it's not about poverty. Younger sons had an economic interest in going and conquering new lands - the same motivation in crusades in Germany or the Norman invasion of England or Sicily. In addition very often they had sincerely held religious motivations and possibly socially too (the effect of Romances and the idea of chivalry).

If that were true, why then did these supposed second sons not settle in the lands that they supposedly conquered for economic interests?  The overwhelming majority of the first wave of Crusaders returned home after Jerusalem was taken and the political situation settled in the aftermath.

Yeah. I think it is a mistake to conflate all crusades and treat them the same. I think the first crusade was mainly religious, the third was mainly political, the fourth was mainly motivated by greed.

The Fourth was not supposed to be motivated by greed. But by that time the Italian City States had discovered that they were the primary beneficiaries of the Crusades and things had changed :P

But even the later Crusades were mostly motivated by religion. Even if St Louis had somehow won in Egypt he personally stood to gain little compared to what he was risking.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: viper37 on August 23, 2016, 02:09:53 PM
Peaceful Christians brutally assaulted by evil black man during illegal prayer on street:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOfR5sxJq7I
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on August 25, 2016, 01:55:01 AM
Another grey area attack :

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/aug/25/queensland-backpacker-stabbing-infatuation-with-mia-ayliffe-chung-investigated

There have been quite a few of these lately, as we all know. I don't think it is terrorism as such, more that Islamic terrorism is providing a convenient get-out clause for inadequates who don't feel that the world is going their way.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Hamilcar on August 25, 2016, 12:58:47 PM
Crossbow attack? What the? http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/3-dead-after-crossbow-attack-in-toronto-1.3044118
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on August 25, 2016, 01:09:31 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on August 25, 2016, 12:58:47 PM
Crossbow attack? What the? http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/3-dead-after-crossbow-attack-in-toronto-1.3044118

Now see, if Canada had liberal gun laws like in American, this wouldn't have happened.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: dps on August 25, 2016, 05:02:45 PM
Quote from: Hamilcar on August 25, 2016, 12:58:47 PM
Crossbow attack? What the? http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/3-dead-after-crossbow-attack-in-toronto-1.3044118


Weirdest part is the police stating that the killings are connected somehow to a separate incident involving a suspicious package.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Liep on September 01, 2016, 01:45:15 PM
2 Danish policemen was shot yesterday during a drug arrest, turns out the shooter is an ISIS supporter and now the media is talking about radicalism again. The last terror attack here was done by another lowlife drug dealer. 
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Brain on September 01, 2016, 02:40:20 PM
Quote from: Liep on September 01, 2016, 01:45:15 PM
2 Danish policemen was shot yesterday during a drug arrest, turns out the shooter is an ISIS supporter and now the media is talking about radicalism again. The last terror attack here was done by another lowlife drug dealer.

That's not true drug dealing.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Hamilcar on September 01, 2016, 03:09:39 PM
Quote from: The Brain on September 01, 2016, 02:40:20 PM
Quote from: Liep on September 01, 2016, 01:45:15 PM
2 Danish policemen was shot yesterday during a drug arrest, turns out the shooter is an ISIS supporter and now the media is talking about radicalism again. The last terror attack here was done by another lowlife drug dealer.

That's not true drug dealing.

Yeah people should only deal drugs for a pure profit motive. Running your drug business to partially fund ISIS, that's just low.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Martinus on September 03, 2016, 03:29:31 PM
#NotAllDrugDealers
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Liep on September 04, 2016, 03:14:13 AM
ISIS claimed responsibility for the shooting. A weird move since he was just trying to shoot his way out of a drug arrest, but whatever floats their boat.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on September 04, 2016, 04:36:15 AM
They'll be claiming responsibility for blocked sinks and toilets next  :P
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on October 05, 2016, 09:14:38 AM
Two Belgian policemen just now stabbed in Brussels:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37563836 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37563836)

Quote
Brussels police stabbed in 'terror attack'

Two police officers have been stabbed in Brussels in a possible terrorist incident, Belgian prosecutors say.

One officer was stabbed in the neck and another in the stomach, while a third officer who arrived at the scene in Schaerbeek district suffered a broken nose, Belgian broadcaster VRT reports.

The attacker was shot in the leg and taken away by ambulance.

Authorities have named the attacker as Hicham D, 43, of Belgian nationality.

A witness told RTBF news that a man with a knife knocked a police officer to the ground before turning on a second officer.

"We have reason to believe that the incident was a terrorist attack," a spokesman for the Belgian federal prosecutor's office, Eric Van Der Sypt, said.

Belgian prosecutors said the officers had not suffered life-threatening injuries.

The attack happened near a main road in a region linked to previous terror attacks.

It comes just hours after commuters were evacuated from Brussels Nord station over a bomb scare.

Belgium has been on high alert following attacks in Brussels on the airport and the city's metro system in March, which killed 35 people and injured more than 300.

The attacks were claimed by the Islamic State (IS) militant group.

edit:

Post updated for later details
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on October 05, 2016, 10:35:31 AM
Post updated for latest details
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Liep on December 11, 2016, 04:44:28 AM
Busy times, Istanbul yesterday with more than 20 dead and now a bombing in Cairo.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Liep on December 11, 2016, 04:48:10 AM
Quote from: Liep on December 11, 2016, 04:44:28 AM
Busy times, Istanbul yesterday with more than 20 dead and now a bombing in Cairo.

And googling terror attacks gives me, Mogadishu, Madagali, Aden and Mosul with more than 20 dead in each bombing just in the last few days as well.

Maybe rename thread to minor terrorist attacks in or close to Europe?  :hmm: :(
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on December 11, 2016, 09:00:28 AM
Turkey blames every bombing on the PKK, even ones carried out by ISIS (or Turkish Intelligence  :ph34r:), but since this one targeted police, they probably actually were behind it.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Liep on December 23, 2016, 06:04:06 AM
Potentially not so minor, but a Libyan plane just landed in Malta and is supposedly hijacked. 118 people on board.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on December 23, 2016, 09:33:50 AM
Quote from: Liep on December 23, 2016, 06:04:06 AM
Potentially not so minor, but a Libyan plane just landed in Malta and is supposedly hijacked. 118 people on board.

Probably people just desperate to get out of Libya, you know the liberal intervention of Dave Cameron, me and all of the other do gooders, the one that turned out so well.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 23, 2016, 03:56:45 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 23, 2016, 09:33:50 AM
Probably people just desperate to get out of Libya, you know the liberal intervention of Dave Cameron, me and all of the other do gooders, the one that turned out so well.

Did youse guys ever pay back the bombs you mooched?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2016, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 23, 2016, 03:56:45 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 23, 2016, 09:33:50 AM
Probably people just desperate to get out of Libya, you know the liberal intervention of Dave Cameron, me and all of the other do gooders, the one that turned out so well.

Did youse guys ever pay back the bombs you mooched?

No joke. "Leading from behind" = "getting stuck with the check."  Oh, sorry, "chequeue"
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Barrister on December 23, 2016, 04:08:23 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2016, 03:59:27 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 23, 2016, 03:56:45 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 23, 2016, 09:33:50 AM
Probably people just desperate to get out of Libya, you know the liberal intervention of Dave Cameron, me and all of the other do gooders, the one that turned out so well.

Did youse guys ever pay back the bombs you mooched?

No joke. "Leading from behind" = "getting stuck with the check."  Oh, sorry, "chequeue"

You're learning! :hug:

Though it's cheque actually.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2016, 04:10:31 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 23, 2016, 04:08:23 PM
Though it's cheque actually.

Shut up. Meg.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Barrister on December 23, 2016, 04:22:14 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2016, 04:10:31 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 23, 2016, 04:08:23 PM
Though it's cheque actually.

Shut up. Meg.

I just appreciate the effort! :hug:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on December 23, 2016, 04:22:55 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 23, 2016, 03:56:45 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 23, 2016, 09:33:50 AM
Probably people just desperate to get out of Libya, you know the liberal intervention of Dave Cameron, me and all of the other do gooders, the one that turned out so well.

Did youse guys ever pay back the bombs you mooched?

There probably weren't as many 'borrowed' as made out by NATO, my reasoning being the thinned out peace-dividend RAF and what with the Americans having ended up doing a lot more of the bombing/sorties than the US government initially thought they'd do.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 23, 2016, 04:25:48 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 23, 2016, 04:22:55 PM
There probably weren't as many 'borrowed' as made out by NATO, my reasoning being the thinned out peace-dividend RAF and what with the Americans having ended up doing a lot more of the bombing/sorties than the US government initially thought they'd do.

Sounds like fast-talking welching to me.  :mad:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on December 23, 2016, 04:30:27 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 23, 2016, 04:25:48 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 23, 2016, 04:22:55 PM
There probably weren't as many 'borrowed' as made out by NATO, my reasoning being the thinned out peace-dividend RAF and what with the Americans having ended up doing a lot more of the bombing/sorties than the US government initially thought they'd do.

Sounds like fast-talking welching to me.  :mad:

:D

No I think the US ended up doing a lot more of the heavy lifting than is popularly realized, I bet it was 90% of the tanker work, 75% of the recon/backup sorties and 50-60% of the airstrikes?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 23, 2016, 04:36:53 PM
And 95% of the bombs.  Fucking bunch of tinkers.  <_<
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on December 23, 2016, 06:08:17 PM
And 100% of the post-conflict clean-up.  Thanks, assholes.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on December 23, 2016, 11:53:10 PM
Quote from: mongers on December 23, 2016, 09:33:50 AM
Quote from: Liep on December 23, 2016, 06:04:06 AM
Potentially not so minor, but a Libyan plane just landed in Malta and is supposedly hijacked. 118 people on board.

Probably people just desperate to get out of Libya, you know the liberal intervention of Dave Cameron, me and all of the other do gooders, the one that turned out so well.

And would it have gone that much better without that intervention?

I will never understand why people think that weaksauce shit actually made that big of a difference. The country was already ripping itself apart in a deathspiral before anybody decided dropping a few bombs would make a big difference (it didn't).

And as for 'do gooders' it was done to protect Europe's oil supply.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: citizen k on December 24, 2016, 12:23:10 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 23, 2016, 11:53:10 PM... dropping a few bombs would make a big difference (it didn't).


It saved lives. Unless you think the rebels in Benghazi could have repelled the Qadaffi forces?

Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 24, 2016, 03:06:09 AM
Quote from: citizen k on December 24, 2016, 12:23:10 AM
It saved lives. Unless you think the rebels in Benghazi could have repelled the Qadaffi forces?

Hastening a Qadaffi victory would have saved lives too.

I'm not saying it was a terrible call, but when you come down on one side or the other you're basically rolling the dice that that side is nicer than the other.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on January 06, 2017, 03:01:30 PM
Attack in Fort Lauderdale Airport today. One shooter is reported to be in custody.

QuoteTSA warns of active shooter situation at Fort Lauderdale Airport after earlier shooting killed 5

The Transportation Security Administration just warned people at the Fort Lauderdale Airport to shelter in place in an active shooter situation.

A shooter opened fire at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport earlier on Friday, killing five people and wounding multiple people, law enforcement officials said.

The first suspect was in custody, but the situation remained active. All flights were grounded and additional areas of the airport were being evacuated. The motive for the first attack, which started shortly before 1 p.m. was not known, the Broward County sheriff's office said.

The airport tweeted that the earlier shooting took place at the Terminal 2 baggage claim area in the lower level. It said all services are temporarily suspended and passengers should contact their air carrier about flight information.

Separately, Terminal 1 was being evacuated.

Hundreds of passengers and airport workers could be seen gathering and evacuating via the tarmac.

The airport has four terminals and serves more than 73,000 travelers every day. It ranks 21st in the U.S. in total passenger traffic, with more than 650 commercial flights a day.

Both the Los Angeles and the Miami international airports said they were deploying additional resources in light of the attack.

Florida Gov. Rick Scott's office said the governor was en route to Fort Lauderdale to be briefed by law enforcement, but could not confirm information on fatalities, injuries or motive.

The FBI told CNBC it is aware of the situation and is in contact with local authorities, but no further information was available.

Breaking so who knows what is right at this point.

Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: katmai on January 06, 2017, 04:21:28 PM
Apparently the shooter left from Anchorage where he has been living on flight overnight.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on January 06, 2017, 04:31:03 PM
Quote from: katmai on January 06, 2017, 04:21:28 PM
Apparently the shooter left from Anchorage where he has been living on flight overnight.

Loving the sentence structure!
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: katmai on January 06, 2017, 04:33:01 PM
I write good on iPhone.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on January 06, 2017, 04:50:05 PM
Quote from: katmai on January 06, 2017, 04:33:01 PM
I write good on iPhone.

Okay, TIM.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: MadImmortalMan on January 06, 2017, 05:42:18 PM
QuoteFORT LAUDERDALE (CBSMiami) — Officials said the gunman in a deadly attack at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport checked in his weapon from a flight arriving from Canada.

Esteban Santiago-Ruiz, 26, has been named as the suspected shooter.

According to Broward Commissioner Chip LaMarca, Esteban-Ruiz was a passenger on a Canadian flight with a gun that he checked in.

"He claimed his bag and took the gun from baggage and went into the bathroom to load it. Came out shooting people in baggage claim," LaMarca said.


On the company's Twitter account, Air Canada confirmed that no one by that name was on their flight. Air Canada flights arrive to Terminal 2, where the shooting took place.

Quote
Air Canada

@AirCanada

We confirm we have no record of a passenger by the name Esteban Santiago, or checked guns, on any of our flights to Fort Lauderdale #FLL 5/5


Police were able to apprehend Santiago-Ruiz without having to fire their own weapons when the gunman apparently ran out of bullets.

Law enforcement said he was found with an active military ID and is an American citizen, born in New Jersey. Previous known addresses include Penuelas, Puerto Rico and Anchorage, Alaska.

They add that in November 2016, he walked into an FBI office in Anchorage claiming that he was being forced to fight for ISIS. He was sent to a psychiatric hospital.

In 2011 or 2012, he was investigated by Homeland Security Investigations for child porn. Three weapons and a computer were seized, but there was not enough evidence to prosecute, according to law enforcement sources.

Santiago also has a record for minor traffic violations and was evicted in 2015 for not paying rent.

The suspect wasn't hurt in the incident and no one else was taken into custody.

Law enforcement agents continued to search the airport property, including the parking garages.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 06, 2017, 06:06:06 PM
Fucking typical Al-Canada
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: katmai on January 06, 2017, 06:51:54 PM
He was on Delta flight out of Anchorage. air Canada doesn't even have flights from here.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: katmai on January 06, 2017, 06:52:23 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2017, 04:50:05 PM
Quote from: katmai on January 06, 2017, 04:33:01 PM
I write good on iPhone.

Okay, TIM.
listen here you raciss fuck, we all don't look alike.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on January 06, 2017, 06:56:52 PM
Quote from: katmai on January 06, 2017, 06:52:23 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2017, 04:50:05 PM
Quote from: katmai on January 06, 2017, 04:33:01 PM
I write good on iPhone.

Okay, TIM.
listen here you raciss fuck, we all don't look alike.

Look, I know it is cool and all to call people racists these days, but just can it, refried beans.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: katmai on January 06, 2017, 07:03:27 PM
:ultra:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on January 06, 2017, 07:35:06 PM
QuoteLaw enforcement said he was found with an active military ID and is an American citizen, born in New Jersey. Previous known addresses include Penuelas, Puerto Rico and Anchorage, Alaska.

They add that in November 2016, he walked into an FBI office in Anchorage claiming that he was being forced to fight for ISIS. He was sent to a psychiatric hospital.

Huh. Well that's crazy. Active military and thinking ISIS was forcing him to fight for them somehow?

Ah well. I am surprised ISIS has not claimed responsibility already.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 06, 2017, 07:54:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2017, 06:56:52 PM
Look, I know it is cool and all to call people racists these days, but just can it, refried beans.

Daaamn.  Beaner gets burned.  Twice.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Jacob on January 06, 2017, 08:46:28 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 06, 2017, 07:54:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2017, 06:56:52 PM
Look, I know it is cool and all to call people racists these days, but just can it, refried beans.

Daaamn.  Beaner gets burned.  Twice.

Now you're a cheerleader?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on January 06, 2017, 09:01:58 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 06, 2017, 08:46:28 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 06, 2017, 07:54:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2017, 06:56:52 PM
Look, I know it is cool and all to call people racists these days, but just can it, refried beans.

Daaamn.  Beaner gets burned.  Twice.

Now you're a cheerleader?

He loves how he feels in a mini-skirt.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 06, 2017, 10:38:05 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2017, 09:01:58 PM
Quote from: Jacob on January 06, 2017, 08:46:28 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 06, 2017, 07:54:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 06, 2017, 06:56:52 PM
Look, I know it is cool and all to call people racists these days, but just can it, refried beans.

Daaamn.  Beaner gets burned.  Twice.

Now you're a cheerleader?

He loves how he feels in a mini-skirt.

A teasing glimpse of my exposed midriff under my undersized varsity cheer sweater makes me feel extra haughty.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Ed Anger on January 06, 2017, 11:38:04 PM
I need some alone time after hearing that. BRB
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 06, 2017, 11:38:45 PM
Spirit fingers.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Ed Anger on January 06, 2017, 11:51:43 PM
I'm spent.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 06, 2017, 11:58:19 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 06, 2017, 07:35:06 PM
I am surprised ISIS has not claimed responsibility already.

Neither has the state of Florida.

Quote"You just can't imagine how this could ever happen in a state like ours," said Florida Gov. Rick Scott at a press conference.

:lol:  Really, Rick?  Can't imagine it happening in Florida? #YouMustMeanOrlandoBloom
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 07, 2017, 12:19:40 AM
Quote from: katmai on January 06, 2017, 06:52:23 PM
listen here you raciss fuck, we all don't look alike.

Just you and Tim. (He must really like kimchi).
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 07, 2017, 07:35:43 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on January 07, 2017, 12:19:40 AM
Quote from: katmai on January 06, 2017, 06:52:23 PM
listen here you raciss fuck, we all don't look alike.

Just you and Tim. (He must really like kimchi).
:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Syt on January 21, 2017, 12:24:42 PM
http://www.thelocal.at/20170120/islamist-terror-suspect-nabbed-prior-to-bomb-attack

QuoteIslamist terror suspect nabbed prior to bomb attack

Austria's interior minister said Friday that the authorities averted a potential "terror attack" in Vienna with the arrest by armed police of an 18-year-old suspected Islamist extremist.
"Our police forces managed in quick time to arrest a suspect and so prevent a potential terror attack in the federal capital Vienna," Wolfgang Sobotka said shortly after police in the capital announced the arrest.

"The suspect is an Austrian citizen with a migrant background who is 18 years old," Sobotka told a news conference. He said that possible indications that he may be an Islamic extremist were being looked into.

"There are individual indications (of extremism) that we have to investigate. There is one contact that is pretty clear and there are several indications that will be looked at intensively," Sobotka said.

A police spokeswoman told AFP that signs had multiplied in "recent days" that there might be an attack in the city, which is popular with foreign tourists, and that security measures had been increased.

"The presence of uniformed and plainclothes police was increased and today at 1800 (1700 GMT) the suspect was arrested in Vienna near his address," spokeswoman Irina Steier said.

Sobotka said that the man, who lived in Vienna, had been under observation for several days and that he did not resist arrest. He said that "decisive" information came from foreign intelligence agencies.

Austria spared so far

Police also issued a public warning for people to be on the lookout at crowded public places and to inform police if they see any suspicious objects.

Austria has been spared in the string of attacks by Islamist extremists in recent years suffered by other European countries.

In 2015 a record 90,000 people applied for asylum in Austria after hundreds of thousands of migrants transited the country bound for Germany and elsewhere.

Several of the attackers behind the November 2015 deadly attacks in Paris transited through Austria with false papers among the flow of migrants.

In December 2015, two migrants were arrested in Salzburg and later extradited to France over their alleged intent to take part in those attacks, which left 130 people dead.

A Moroccan asylum-seeker was detained in Austria in December for allegedly planning an attack in Salzburg over the Christmas and New Year period, prosecutors said.

The 25-year-old was arrested in a refugee centre in a small Alpine resort town near Salzburg in western Austria, close to the German border.

"Today's case shows once again that Austria is no blessed isle. That Austria, like Europe, has to expect terror situations," Sobotka said.

Austria's opposition far-right has risen in popularity by stoking concerns about immigrants, coming close in 2016 to winning the largely ceremonial but coveted presidency and leading national opinion polls.

'Albanian origin'

In the latest arrest, the Kronen-Zeitung newspaper published online a document from the BVT anti-terrorism agency saying that a group of "radical Islamists of Albanian origin" intended to launch an attack in Vienna.

It said that according to information from a foreign intelligence agency and, independently from a foreign police force, the attack was to take place between January 15 and January 30.

The document, whose veracity could not be confirmed, added that a German-speaking sympathiser of the Islamic State (IS) extremist group made explosives in Germany and that he intended to bring them to Vienna to carry
out an attack.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Liep on February 03, 2017, 04:37:15 AM
Soldier shoots a knife attacker at Louvre

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38853841
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on February 03, 2017, 05:43:24 AM
Side note, to that, but I was reading that many art museums were saying they think they had a drop off in visitors because of concerns of terrorism. I can see Paris because of the media coverage it has gotten but is that really true of other cities? Like London say?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 03, 2017, 05:55:15 AM
Quote from: Liep on February 03, 2017, 04:37:15 AM
Soldier shoots a knife attacker at Louvre

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38853841

QuoteA French soldier guarding the Louvre in Paris has shot a man who tried to attack a security patrol with a machete shouting "Allahu Akbar", police say.

A machete, not a knife.
Religion of peace again, no Irish methodists, no anarchists, no far-right, no anti-illuminati (remember the awful Da Vinci Code?). 
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on February 03, 2017, 05:59:13 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 03, 2017, 05:55:15 AM
Quote from: Liep on February 03, 2017, 04:37:15 AM
Soldier shoots a knife attacker at Louvre

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38853841

QuoteA French soldier guarding the Louvre in Paris has shot a man who tried to attack a security patrol with a machete shouting "Allahu Akbar", police say.

A machete, not a knife.
Religion of peace again, no Irish methodists, no anarchists, no far-right, no anti-illuminati (remember the awful Da Vinci Code?). 

Well just because it doesn't make international news, I don't think it would be wise to discount ongoing IRA related violence in NI/Ireland. That ain't over.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on February 03, 2017, 06:23:06 AM
English press currently has that he had knives and machete but attack on soldier was with knife.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: viper37 on February 03, 2017, 11:03:23 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 03, 2017, 05:55:15 AM
Religion of peace again, no Irish methodists, no anarchists, no far-right, no anti-illuminati (remember the awful Da Vinci Code?). 
6 dead in Quebec city by a fan of Trump.  So far, his supporters have killed more people than muslims did in my country.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Razgovory on February 03, 2017, 11:44:51 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 03, 2017, 11:03:23 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 03, 2017, 05:55:15 AM
Religion of peace again, no Irish methodists, no anarchists, no far-right, no anti-illuminati (remember the awful Da Vinci Code?). 
6 dead in Quebec city by a fan of Trump.  So far, his supporters have killed more people than muslims did in my country.

I like how you spin a Quebec nationalist murdering Muslims as somehow Trump's fault.  You and grallon were quite vocal about not wanting these people in Quebec.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: viper37 on February 03, 2017, 03:20:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 03, 2017, 11:44:51 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 03, 2017, 11:03:23 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 03, 2017, 05:55:15 AM
Religion of peace again, no Irish methodists, no anarchists, no far-right, no anti-illuminati (remember the awful Da Vinci Code?). 
6 dead in Quebec city by a fan of Trump.  So far, his supporters have killed more people than muslims did in my country.

I like how you spin a Quebec nationalist murdering Muslims as somehow Trump's fault.  You and grallon were quite vocal about not wanting these people in Quebec.
Just because you imagine things does not make them real.  I always said I did not want fanatics and I had nothing against secular muslims.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 03, 2017, 03:31:01 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 03, 2017, 06:23:06 AM
English press currently has that he had knives and machete but attack on soldier was with knife.

French press says otherwise.

Quote"Le pronostic vital de l'assaillant est très engagé" selon le procureur de Paris
Lors d'une conférence de presse ce vendredi soir, le procureur de Paris François Molins a déclaré que "tout indique que l'auteur était très déterminé".

Il est ensuite revenu sur le déroule des faits : "Ce matin, vers 9h50, alors que quatre militaires de l'Opération Sentinelle se trouvaient en patrouille au sous-sol du Caroussel du Louvre, un individu est arrivé par le grand escalier côté Tuileries (...)"

"Avec un sac à dos et d'un T-shirt avec une tête de mort, une machette dans chaque main, les bras levés, il s'est précipité sur les militaires et a frappé un premier militaire qui l'a repoussé, puis a tenté de porter des coups de machette au second (...)"

Le procureur a ensuite précisé que "le pronostic vital de l'assaillant est très engagé". "Les militaires, eux, ont scrupuleusement respecté la doctrine d'emploi des armes."

http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2017/02/03/01016-20170203LIVWWW00094-un-militaire-tire-sur-un-homme-apres-une-agression-au-couteau-a-paris.php#798011 (http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2017/02/03/01016-20170203LIVWWW00094-un-militaire-tire-sur-un-homme-apres-une-agression-au-couteau-a-paris.php#798011)

Executive Summary
The perpetrator might not survive, since he was seriously wounded.
In other news, he bought 2 machetes at Bastille for 600 euros.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on February 03, 2017, 11:55:40 PM
He was ripped off. A perfectly good machete can be obtained for $50.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Razgovory on February 04, 2017, 12:14:58 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 03, 2017, 03:20:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 03, 2017, 11:44:51 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 03, 2017, 11:03:23 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 03, 2017, 05:55:15 AM
Religion of peace again, no Irish methodists, no anarchists, no far-right, no anti-illuminati (remember the awful Da Vinci Code?). 
6 dead in Quebec city by a fan of Trump.  So far, his supporters have killed more people than muslims did in my country.

I like how you spin a Quebec nationalist murdering Muslims as somehow Trump's fault.  You and grallon were quite vocal about not wanting these people in Quebec.
Just because you imagine things does not make them real.  I always said I did not want fanatics and I had nothing against secular muslims.

Well, these were obviously not "secular Muslims" they were in a Mosque.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 04, 2017, 06:29:45 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on February 03, 2017, 11:55:40 PM
He was ripped off. A perfectly good machete can be obtained for $50.
`

:D
Bastille nowadays is a tourist trap, not far from the homo neighborhood, bobo/hipster heaven so your post makes sense. :)
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: viper37 on February 04, 2017, 10:22:16 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 04, 2017, 12:14:58 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 03, 2017, 03:20:37 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 03, 2017, 11:44:51 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 03, 2017, 11:03:23 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 03, 2017, 05:55:15 AM
Religion of peace again, no Irish methodists, no anarchists, no far-right, no anti-illuminati (remember the awful Da Vinci Code?). 
6 dead in Quebec city by a fan of Trump.  So far, his supporters have killed more people than muslims did in my country.

I like how you spin a Quebec nationalist murdering Muslims as somehow Trump's fault.  You and grallon were quite vocal about not wanting these people in Quebec.
Just because you imagine things does not make them real.  I always said I did not want fanatics and I had nothing against secular muslims.

Well, these were obviously not "secular Muslims" they were in a Mosque.
secular does not mean atheist.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: grumbler on February 04, 2017, 12:40:07 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 04, 2017, 10:22:16 AM
secular does not mean atheist.

Correct.  It means non-religious (or non-spiritual, if you are being pedantic).

"Secular Muslim" is an oxymoron.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Oexmelin on February 04, 2017, 02:43:45 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 04, 2017, 12:40:07 PM
Correct.  It means non-religious (or non-spiritual, if you are being pedantic)
"Secular Muslim" is an oxymoron.

Not really. In many uses of the term, especially when it relates to individuals, secularism doesn't preclude religious affiliation or sentiment (indeed, the secular clergy was not quite non-religious) - rather, it presumes the relegation of these sentiments beyond the more immediate preoccupations of social life.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: grumbler on February 04, 2017, 03:15:10 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on February 04, 2017, 02:43:45 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 04, 2017, 12:40:07 PM
Correct.  It means non-religious (or non-spiritual, if you are being pedantic)
"Secular Muslim" is an oxymoron.

Not really. In many uses of the term, especially when it relates to individuals, secularism doesn't preclude religious affiliation or sentiment (indeed, the secular clergy was not quite non-religious) - rather, it presumes the relegation of these sentiments beyond the more immediate preoccupations of social life.

"Secular clergy" is a catholic religious/canonical term, not a common language term.  It doesn't apply to Muslims.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2017, 03:22:32 PM
"Recovering Catholic"
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Oexmelin on February 04, 2017, 03:45:35 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 04, 2017, 03:15:10 PM

"Secular clergy" is a catholic religious/canonical term, not a common language term.  It doesn't apply to Muslims.

It was but an illustration that secular has a more capacious meaning than what you ascribed to it. The rest of my point, concerning the hierarchy of religious values in relationship to the (social) world, still stands. It is used in such way, for instance, in the sociology of religion. 

My impression is that "secular" in the US plays the same role as laïcité in France: their analytical value is difficult to disentangle from the specific political context which tends to narrow their meaning.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: PDH on February 04, 2017, 03:50:17 PM
To be pedantic for my own self, anthropologists of religion use it in a way similar to the canonical meaning - devoid of institutional (but not necessarily spiritual) influences.

Secular muslim can be both an oxymoron and filled with meaning depending on the definitions of terms.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on February 04, 2017, 03:58:47 PM
It is interesting which religion people choose to not believe in.

I don't believe in the Church of England's line; I am. of course, lapsed CofE and that determines many of my beliefs and thoughts. So "secular Muslim" does make sense i think.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 04, 2017, 04:21:22 PM
"Cultural Muslim" seems to convey that meaning better than secular Muslim.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: MadImmortalMan on February 04, 2017, 05:43:27 PM
I dunno. Islam plays a different role in society than most religions we're used to coexisting with. It is by it's own tenets a religion, a government, a philosophy and a culture.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on February 04, 2017, 05:46:29 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 04, 2017, 05:43:27 PM
I dunno. Islam plays a different role in society than most religions we're used to coexisting with. It is by it's own tenets a religion, a government, a philosophy and a culture.

See Myanmar.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: grumbler on February 04, 2017, 06:14:50 PM
Quote from: PDH on February 04, 2017, 03:50:17 PM
To be pedantic for my own self, anthropologists of religion use it in a way similar to the canonical meaning - devoid of institutional (but not necessarily spiritual) influences.

Secular muslim can be both an oxymoron and filled with meaning depending on the definitions of terms.

Yes, but we are talking ordinary English here, not anthropological or religion-specific definitions.  A Muslim is one who has "submitted to Allah."  That's kinda the point.  "Non-practicing Muslims" isn't a term a Muslim would recognize as valid, since the only definition of Muslim is that he or she has submitted to Allah.  The Five Pillars are just how a Muslim observes the faith; they can be suspended for various reasons without impacting their status as Muslims, so long as they still acknowledge submission to Allah.  A "secular" submission to Allah seems a contradiction in terms.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 04, 2017, 06:22:53 PM
Quote from: mongers on February 04, 2017, 05:46:29 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 04, 2017, 05:43:27 PM
I dunno. Islam plays a different role in society than most religions we're used to coexisting with. It is by it's own tenets a religion, a government, a philosophy and a culture.

See Myanmar.

See Myballs.  You know what he's trying to say.  Read your Koran, PBUH PBR PBJ.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on February 04, 2017, 06:29:55 PM
Quote from: mongers on February 04, 2017, 05:46:29 PM
See Myanmar.

Huh?

Anyway Buddhism is pretty different from our standard experience as well. That particular flavor of Buddhism anyway.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: PDH on February 04, 2017, 07:34:10 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 04, 2017, 06:14:50 PM

Yes, but we are talking ordinary English here, not anthropological or religion-specific definitions.  A Muslim is one who has "submitted to Allah."  That's kinda the point.  "Non-practicing Muslims" isn't a term a Muslim would recognize as valid, since the only definition of Muslim is that he or she has submitted to Allah.  The Five Pillars are just how a Muslim observes the faith; they can be suspended for various reasons without impacting their status as Muslims, so long as they still acknowledge submission to Allah.  A "secular" submission to Allah seems a contradiction in terms.

I think we may be at opposite sides of the thing.  My point was that "a" definition that I find useful has a religious person without the institutions that have grown up from that religion.  The Islamic world has a wide variety of how the tennents are followed, and a practicing Muslim in the West could be religious with a nuanced view that rejects Wahhabism or other centuries of added on human institutions (especially since central to the faith is the notion that there was one last prophet and no more).  There is submission to Allah, and there is acceptance of later additions - a useful division perhaps...

However, I do agree that in the present world, the cultural and religious notions are not easily separable and thus for many a non-institutional Muslim would be a non-Muslim (both from within and from without).  It might just be where I work, but I find some of these examples do survive though, and so there may just be a counter-reformation to the last century and a half of reformation and hard lines.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Brain on February 04, 2017, 08:36:43 PM
I think "ethnic Hindu" is the correct term.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: viper37 on February 04, 2017, 09:52:32 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 04, 2017, 12:40:07 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 04, 2017, 10:22:16 AM
secular does not mean atheist.

Correct.  It means non-religious (or non-spiritual, if you are being pedantic).

"Secular Muslim" is an oxymoron.
sec·u·lar·ism
ˈsekyələˌrizəm/
noun
noun: secularism

    the principle of separation of the state from religious institutions.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: viper37 on February 04, 2017, 09:55:45 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 04, 2017, 06:14:50 PM
Quote from: PDH on February 04, 2017, 03:50:17 PM
To be pedantic for my own self, anthropologists of religion use it in a way similar to the canonical meaning - devoid of institutional (but not necessarily spiritual) influences.

Secular muslim can be both an oxymoron and filled with meaning depending on the definitions of terms.

Yes, but we are talking ordinary English here, not anthropological or religion-specific definitions.  A Muslim is one who has "submitted to Allah."  That's kinda the point.  "Non-practicing Muslims" isn't a term a Muslim would recognize as valid, since the only definition of Muslim is that he or she has submitted to Allah.  The Five Pillars are just how a Muslim observes the faith; they can be suspended for various reasons without impacting their status as Muslims, so long as they still acknowledge submission to Allah.  A "secular" submission to Allah seems a contradiction in terms.
there are muslims who don't believe the religion should be the law of the land.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: grumbler on February 04, 2017, 10:35:12 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 04, 2017, 09:52:32 PM
sec·u·lar·ism
ˈsekyələˌrizəm/
noun
noun: secularism

    the principle of separation of the state from religious institutions.

You've learned to cut and past!  Good for you!!  Now, look up the word in question, and cut-n-paste that definition.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Brain on February 05, 2017, 04:00:05 AM
The paste is a foreign country.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 12:25:55 PM
I am religious but I believe in a non-religious society. I don't want religion dictated to me by the state.

I don't see why a Muslim could not share that view.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 06, 2017, 11:19:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 12:25:55 PM
I am religious but I believe in a non-religious society. I don't want religion dictated to me by the state.

I don't see why a Muslim could not share that view.

That is not the will of Allah, PBJ.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: grumbler on February 07, 2017, 07:29:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 06, 2017, 12:25:55 PM
I am religious but I believe in a non-religious society. I don't want religion dictated to me by the state.

I don't see why a Muslim could not share that view.

I don't see any reason why a Muslim could not share that point of view.  That doesn't make you, or the Muslim, secular.  It may make you both believe in secular politics, though.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on February 07, 2017, 08:59:44 AM
I've sent the White House a link to this thread, maybe they'll find some of their phantom non-reported attaks in it.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Razgovory on February 12, 2017, 07:52:26 PM
Klansman was found dead in the river up near St. Louis.  Shot in the head.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: 11B4V on February 12, 2017, 08:09:51 PM
Leader or just a knob


Never mind linked it through fb
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 12, 2017, 08:12:04 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 12, 2017, 08:09:51 PM
Leader or just a knob

He was a big 'un.  Imperial Wizard, Level 20!

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/leader-of-missouri-kkk-group-found-shot-to-death-near/article_85323253-9142-5ff9-9a75-2ce2905ba68d.html

Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: 11B4V on February 12, 2017, 08:23:35 PM
Hmmm probably inside job.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 12, 2017, 08:26:33 PM
Who gives a shit, it's one less asshole in the world, and derspiess moves up a notch in the Midwest hierarchy so we can say we know somebody now.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: 11B4V on February 12, 2017, 08:30:24 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 12, 2017, 08:26:33 PM
Who gives a shit, it's one less asshole in the world, and derspiess moves up a notch in the Midwest hierarchy so we can say we know somebody now.

Eh, a brother would have done it drive by style.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Ed Anger on February 12, 2017, 09:31:09 PM
I can cast level 10 spells!
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: grumbler on February 12, 2017, 10:18:58 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 12, 2017, 09:31:09 PM
I can cast level 10 spells!

Lightning bolt!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ekugPKqFw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ekugPKqFw)
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Ed Anger on February 12, 2017, 10:23:01 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 12, 2017, 10:18:58 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 12, 2017, 09:31:09 PM
I can cast level 10 spells!

Lightning bolt!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ekugPKqFw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ekugPKqFw)

Everybody got laid.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: PDH on February 12, 2017, 10:26:22 PM
 :rolleyes:

Lightning bolt is only like a 3rd level spell.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Ed Anger on February 12, 2017, 10:26:59 PM
NERD!
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: grumbler on February 12, 2017, 10:32:31 PM
Quote from: PDH on February 12, 2017, 10:26:22 PM
:rolleyes:

Lightning bolt is only like a 3rd level spell.

Not in D&D Edition 14 3/4!
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: PDH on February 12, 2017, 10:32:46 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 12, 2017, 10:26:59 PM
NERD!

Takes one to know one!
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Ed Anger on February 12, 2017, 10:40:46 PM
My character, Ed Hitler (lvl 20 Asshole)would kick your character's ass.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: PDH on February 12, 2017, 10:45:14 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 12, 2017, 10:40:46 PM
My character, Ed Hitler (lvl 20 Asshole)would kick your character's ass.

That's just because I multiclassed as a Historian/Dumbass
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Ed Anger on February 12, 2017, 10:53:14 PM
Quote from: PDH on February 12, 2017, 10:45:14 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 12, 2017, 10:40:46 PM
My character, Ed Hitler (lvl 20 Asshole)would kick your character's ass.

That's just because I multiclassed as a Historian/Dumbass

HA! Your books won't save you now!

*Casts Ed's Mandingo cock*
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: PDH on February 12, 2017, 11:14:22 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 12, 2017, 10:53:14 PM
HA! Your books won't save you now!

*Casts Ed's Mandingo cock*
AHA!

*counters with Casting of 1980s Feminist Discourse!*

You fell for my trap!
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Brain on February 12, 2017, 11:51:30 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 12, 2017, 10:40:46 PM
My character, Ed Hitler (lvl 20 Asshole)would kick your character's ass.

Oh Bottom...
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Solmyr on February 13, 2017, 04:27:29 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 12, 2017, 08:12:04 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 12, 2017, 08:09:51 PM
Leader or just a knob

He was a big 'un.  Imperial Wizard, Level 20!

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/leader-of-missouri-kkk-group-found-shot-to-death-near/article_85323253-9142-5ff9-9a75-2ce2905ba68d.html

Why do these KKK types sound like shitty LARPers?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: grumbler on February 13, 2017, 06:42:33 PM
Quote from: PDH on February 12, 2017, 11:14:22 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on February 12, 2017, 10:53:14 PM
HA! Your books won't save you now!

*Casts Ed's Mandingo cock*
AHA!

*counters with Casting of 1980s Feminist Discourse!*

You fell for my trap!

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F000%2F353%2F279%2Fe31.jpg&hash=0f50022ef836fab4f27096cad377f7100d81949a)
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: 11B4V on February 13, 2017, 07:39:58 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on February 13, 2017, 04:27:29 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 12, 2017, 08:12:04 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on February 12, 2017, 08:09:51 PM
Leader or just a knob

He was a big 'un.  Imperial Wizard, Level 20!

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/leader-of-missouri-kkk-group-found-shot-to-death-near/article_85323253-9142-5ff9-9a75-2ce2905ba68d.html

Why do these KKK types sound like shitty LARPers?

Ed?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Ed Anger on February 13, 2017, 08:48:02 PM
Don't ask me. Didn't join the Klan. Was invited to when I was 16 though.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: dps on February 13, 2017, 10:23:15 PM
They weren't hateful enough for him.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: grumbler on February 14, 2017, 10:06:20 AM
Quote from: dps on February 13, 2017, 10:23:15 PM
They weren't hateful enough for him.

He wanted to see how The War of Yankee Aggression turned out before he pulled the trigger.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Ed Anger on February 14, 2017, 10:07:50 PM
Mew
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Syt on February 27, 2017, 11:31:45 AM
Over the last couple of months there have been a number of DDOS attacks on servers in Austria. The airport in Schwechat, the National Bank, the Foreign Ministry, the Defense Ministry, and Parliament were the targets.

The military intelligence services have now IDed the suspected perp, a nationalist Turk in the U.S. who apparently attacked various targets he considered "anti-Turkish" in Austria, Iraq, Israel, and other countries. The Austrians informed the Americans. The websites and profiles of the suspect ("Arslan L." aka "Osman T." aka "General Osman") have disappeared bit by bit, and his last known domicile is for sale. Apparently there were images of him in Turkish paratrooper uniform on Turkish military training grounds, and he and his comrades called each other "soldiers" - so the question remains whether this was state sponsored, or an "independent."

Origin of the attacks?

(https://images.kurier.at/46-90466886.jpg/htmlTaggingImage620/248.912.922)

:ph34r:

German article: https://kurier.at/politik/inland/cyber-terrorist-nach-angriffen-auf-oesterreich-enttarnt/248.912.062
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Ed Anger on February 27, 2017, 07:06:38 PM
Lolz.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Archy on March 22, 2017, 10:14:31 AM
According to what I heard on the radio shots fired at English parliament and one police officer got  wounded.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Josquius on March 22, 2017, 10:18:12 AM
Apparently a car hit a bunch of people first :(

The question is kipper or islamofascist
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: merithyn on March 22, 2017, 10:49:48 AM
http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-39355505 (http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-39355505)

BBC saying multiple people down with injuries. Only dead is the perpetrator.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 22, 2017, 10:53:02 AM
Quote from: merithyn on March 22, 2017, 10:49:48 AM
http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-39355505 (http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-39355505)

BBC saying multiple people down with injuries. Only dead is the perpetrator.

First tweet on that link kinda cracked me up.  Perfect PC response.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: derspiess on March 22, 2017, 11:24:24 AM
Probably Amish wot diddit.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Archy on March 22, 2017, 11:34:22 AM
I suspect a last attempt by activist remainers to prevent Brexit. It's time for Erdogan style cleansing of the Civil service  ;)
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on March 22, 2017, 12:45:36 PM
Quote from: merithyn on March 22, 2017, 10:49:48 AM
http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-39355505 (http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-39355505)

BBC saying multiple people down with injuries. Only dead is the perpetrator.

Not the case anymore, unfortunately.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Brain on March 22, 2017, 02:03:53 PM
:(
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on March 23, 2017, 02:35:11 AM
I have mixed feelings about the nature of the attack.

On the one hand anyone can get their hands on a car and a knife and launch such an attack, so low barriers to entry. It is also very difficult to defend against such a nihilistic attack (those poor people on Westminster bridge).

But on the other hand, because it is so easy to perform such an attack, the lack of such attacks indicate that the support for such Islamist nihilism in the UK is pretty low.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Josquius on March 23, 2017, 06:07:16 AM
It also shows gun laws work.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on March 23, 2017, 07:16:31 AM
Faked Tube sign.

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/114c7e40bebc3853af969de161e1b3f66f968c73/66_0_1060_636/master/1060.jpg?w=1920&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=27abdd95d814461a048b8e93ab0d370d)

And actual signs today:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7lB443VsAARDSq.jpg:large)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7lj7HGVMAEsw1T.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on March 23, 2017, 07:29:45 AM
Also, I'm a little surprised (well not surprised but continue to never understand) in ISIS wanting to claim this. 'You too can be shot to death after driving a car into tourists on the sidewalk!' ???
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on March 23, 2017, 07:31:01 AM
To their recruiting pool that is the dream.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on March 23, 2017, 07:40:23 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 23, 2017, 07:31:01 AM
To their recruiting pool that is the dream.

Not to downplay the deaths and injuries causes in this occurrence, but wouldn't their recruiting pool desire to be a bit more...impactful? A few dead and 20 or so injured doesn't seem like it'd be all that 'glorious' from that point of view.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Archy on March 23, 2017, 09:04:18 AM
Attempted attack in Antwerp on Meir shopping street. Car with Fench license plate and middle eastern driver in camo tried to drive in on high speed on shoppers. Luckily nobody got hurt. Attacker got arrested after flight. Car currently under investigation
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Josquius on March 23, 2017, 01:32:39 PM
Wow, That is completely unmentioned in the British news.
I am getting pretty annoyed at how much attention is being given to this. Really playing into the terrorist's hands.
If there was a car accident that killed 4 people it'd barely get a mention.

Quote from: garbon on March 23, 2017, 07:29:45 AM
Also, I'm a little surprised (well not surprised but continue to never understand) in ISIS wanting to claim this. 'You too can be shot to death after driving a car into tourists on the sidewalk!' ???

The primary goal of marketing is not to encourage people to buy your product but to keep up awareness of your product.
Daesh have been a bit off the radar lately.
Perhaps?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Maladict on March 23, 2017, 01:35:59 PM
Quote from: Archy on March 23, 2017, 09:04:18 AM
Attempted attack in Antwerp on Meir shopping street. Car with Fench license plate and middle eastern driver in camo tried to drive in on high speed on shoppers. Luckily nobody got hurt. Attacker got arrested after flight. Car currently under investigation

Several weapons found in the car. Looks like a lucky escape for Antwerp.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on March 23, 2017, 02:06:21 PM
Quote from: Tyr on March 23, 2017, 01:32:39 PM
Wow, That is completely unmentioned in the British news.
I am getting pretty annoyed at how much attention is being given to this. Really playing into the terrorist's hands.
If there was a car accident that killed 4 people it'd barely get a mention.

Quote from: garbon on March 23, 2017, 07:29:45 AM
Also, I'm a little surprised (well not surprised but continue to never understand) in ISIS wanting to claim this. 'You too can be shot to death after driving a car into tourists on the sidewalk!' ???

The primary goal of marketing is not to encourage people to buy your product but to keep up awareness of your product.
Daesh have been a bit off the radar lately.
Perhaps?

If not IS then another muslim group engaging in jihad, just like their 'prophet'.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Syt on March 23, 2017, 03:18:33 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/23/sebastian-gorka-westminster-attack-trump-travel-ban

QuoteSebastian Gorka says London attack is proof travel ban is needed

Trump's national security aide says Westminster attack proves ban is necessary, despite the fact that the British-born attacker wouldn't have been affected by it


A Trump administration official seized on the Westminster terror attack to justify the president's blocked travel ban, which targets refugees and immigrants from six Muslim-majority countries, despite confirmation that the attacker was neither an immigrant nor a refugee.

Sebastian Gorka, a national security aide to the president and a former editor for the far-right news site Breitbart, told Fox News's conservative talk show host Sean Hannity on Wednesday evening that the attack in Westminster, that left three people and the attacker dead, "should be a surprise to nobody".

"The war is real and that's why executive orders like president Trump's travel moratorium are so important," Gorka said.

Despite the official's remarks it is almost certain that the British-born attacker, 52 year-old Khalid Masood, would not have been affected by Trump's ban, which targets immigrants and refugees from a handful of countries. Further, the US would have already been entitled to block Masood from the country, given his extensive criminal record.

Trump has issued two executive orders seeking to temporarily bar travel from the selected groups. Both have been blocked by federal courts, which found grounds for a violation of the US constitution that prohibits religious discrimination.

On Wednesday, the administration filed a motion to a federal appeals court requesting an accelerated hearing of the government's appeal against the most recent legal block on the policy.

Gorka, the presidential adviser, appeared on the same Fox News show as the former Ukip leader and close Trump confident Nigel Farage, who also argued the Westminster attack served as justification for Trump's ban.

"Surely an American audience seeing this horrendous thing happening in Westminster today should start to say to itself that when Donald Trump tries to put in place vetting measures, he's doing it to protect your country," Farage said.

He went on to lambast those who have protested against the executive order, and added: "Frankly, if you open your door to uncontrolled immigration from Middle Eastern countries you are inviting in terrorism."

Farage's claims were inaccurate. Since the 9/11 attacks, immigrants from the six countries targeted by Trump's travel ban – Sudan, Somalia, Iran, Yemen, Syria and Libya – or any refugee has carried out a deadly terror attack in the US. Refugees resettled in the United States are already subjected to rigorous vetting procedures that take between 18 months to two years to complete.

Mila Johns, an independent counter terrorism researcher and a former analyst at the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism, argued the claims made by Gorka and Farage "make absolutely no sense at all".

"Even if you look at the last time London suffered a major attack, three of the four 7/7 bombers were born in Britain and the other was born in Jamaica – not really a place you think that radicalized Islamists are going to come from."

"I think facts are something the Trump administration seems to have a very tenuous grasp on, let alone an appreciation for," Johns added. "It's incredibly significant if, when confronted with actual facts and evidence, they continue to repeat their own propaganda, that has no relationship to reality."

Gorka's comments came shortly after the president's son, Donald Trump Jr, was labelled "a disgrace" for attacking London mayor Sadiq Khan based on a six-month-old interview with the Independent.

The mayor had said that terror attacks were "part and parcel of living in a big city" and "I want to be reassured that every single agency and individual involved in protecting our city has the resources and expertise they need to respond in the event that London is attacked." Trump Jnr had partially quoted the article without contextualizing Khan's remarks.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on March 23, 2017, 03:31:22 PM
Yes, the regular trolls are out in force though it wouldn't do nothing to stop a man born in Britain.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Josquius on March 23, 2017, 04:58:52 PM
Best response I've seen: The alleged Westminster attacker is a 52 year old from Kent. So is Nigel Farage. When will we tackle this problem of 52 year old extremists from Kent?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 23, 2017, 05:47:04 PM
Quote from: Tyr on March 23, 2017, 04:58:52 PM
Best response I've seen: The alleged Westminster attacker is a 52 year old from Kent. So is Nigel Farage. When will we tackle this problem of 52 year old extremists from Kent?

That's pretty retarded, sir.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: HVC on March 23, 2017, 05:50:08 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 23, 2017, 05:47:04 PM
Quote from: Tyr on March 23, 2017, 04:58:52 PM
Best response I've seen: The alleged Westminster attacker is a 52 year old from Kent. So is Nigel Farage. When will we tackle this problem of 52 year old extremists from Kent?

That's pretty retarded, sir.

True. This guy killed a few people, Farange screwed over a whole country :D
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 23, 2017, 07:14:04 PM
Quote from: Tyr on March 23, 2017, 04:58:52 PM
Best response I've seen: The alleged Westminster attacker is a 52 year old from Kent. So is Nigel Farage. When will we tackle this problem of 52 year old extremists from Kent?

:lol:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on March 23, 2017, 07:24:22 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 23, 2017, 03:18:33 PM
QuoteSebastian Gorka says London attack is proof travel ban is needed

Kinda saw this one coming.


Anyway, London has survived everything from pissed-off peasants, a massive fire, Guy Fawkes, the Black Plague, the Luftwaffe, the IRA and Boris Johnson.  Kudos to London not missing a beat.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Josquius on March 30, 2017, 04:55:40 AM
I've just realised what the logical idiots answer to recent attacks would be.
Has anyone actually seen them proposing a ban or tight controls on Muslims buying cars?
I surprisingly haven't
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Josquius on April 07, 2017, 08:54:51 AM
Another bad driver. Stockholm :(
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Tamas on April 07, 2017, 08:56:06 AM
Truck driving into shopping street in Stockholm. May had been shootings in the subway at the same time, yet unconfirmed.

I hope The Brain was busy hugging his radiating metal rods in the  power plant and was not around.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 07, 2017, 08:58:32 AM
probably people raging about the most recent Paradox DLCs
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Brain on April 07, 2017, 09:00:39 AM
:(
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Brain on April 07, 2017, 09:12:05 AM
I wonder which group is behind this. I guess it could be anyone.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Tamas on April 07, 2017, 09:15:05 AM
Quote from: The Brain on April 07, 2017, 09:12:05 AM
I wonder which group is behind this. I guess it could be anyone.

We should not jump to conclusions.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Brain on April 07, 2017, 09:21:09 AM
So far 3 dead and 8 injured.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on April 07, 2017, 09:25:22 AM
In related news the Romanian woman hurled into the Thames by the last bad driver has died :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39525596
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Lettow77 on April 07, 2017, 09:27:12 AM
The real tragedy is the islamophobia this will cause on social media :(
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Josquius on April 07, 2017, 09:32:24 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 07, 2017, 09:27:12 AM
The real tragedy is the islamophobia this will cause on social media :(
That's probably the reason the killer did it.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 07, 2017, 10:46:39 AM
Quote from: The Brain on April 07, 2017, 09:12:05 AM
I wonder which group is behind this. I guess it could be anyone.

Anti-catholic Lutheran extremists?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 07, 2017, 12:44:53 PM
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 07, 2017, 09:27:12 AM
The real tragedy is the islamophobia this will cause on social media :(

there's no such thing
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Jacob on April 07, 2017, 01:04:54 PM
Quote from: Lettow77 on April 07, 2017, 09:27:12 AM
The real tragedy is the islamophobia this will cause on social media :(

On the upside, you have an opportunity to enjoy posting smug shit like that.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Razgovory on April 07, 2017, 01:08:57 PM
Lettow doesn't really do smug.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Threviel on April 07, 2017, 01:36:31 PM
I'm okay. You needn't worry.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on April 07, 2017, 01:40:59 PM
Quote from: Threviel on April 07, 2017, 01:36:31 PM
I'm okay. You needn't worry.

Thank goodness.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: viper37 on April 07, 2017, 02:42:22 PM
Quote from: Threviel on April 07, 2017, 01:36:31 PM
I'm okay. You needn't worry.
good to heard :)
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Brain on April 07, 2017, 05:49:06 PM
They've arrested someone.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Josquius on April 08, 2017, 09:06:01 AM
Uzbekistan I hear.
Very odd.
After the Krygz guy in Russia... An uprising of the unnoticed nations of the world?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Brain on April 08, 2017, 09:09:10 AM
Well it could be anything. The last similar attack in Stockholm (in 2003) was by a guy who claimed that the Swedish Security Service was remote controlling the vehicle. Don't remember if his story checked out.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 08, 2017, 09:45:54 AM
Way to go, Sweden.  Totally playing into Trump & Friends retconned terror timeline. 
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 08, 2017, 06:35:12 PM
Quote from: Tyr on April 08, 2017, 09:06:01 AM
Uzbekistan I hear.
Very odd.
After the Krygz guy in Russia... An uprising of the unnoticed nations of the world?

Weren't the Boston Marathon bombers from there?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Razgovory on April 08, 2017, 07:36:49 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 08, 2017, 06:35:12 PM
Quote from: Tyr on April 08, 2017, 09:06:01 AM
Uzbekistan I hear.
Very odd.
After the Krygz guy in Russia... An uprising of the unnoticed nations of the world?

Weren't the Boston Marathon bombers from there?

No.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 09, 2017, 02:47:40 PM
Quote from: Tyr on April 08, 2017, 09:06:01 AM
Uzbekistan I hear.
Very odd.
After the Krygz guy in Russia... An uprising of the unnoticed nations of the world?

Central Asia is hardly unnoticed in regards to islamic extremism. Quite a hotbed in fact, with trouble spots such as the Fergana valley.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on April 09, 2017, 02:51:50 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 08, 2017, 06:35:12 PM
Quote from: Tyr on April 08, 2017, 09:06:01 AM
Uzbekistan I hear.
Very odd.
After the Krygz guy in Russia... An uprising of the unnoticed nations of the world?

Weren't the Boston Marathon bombers from there?

One of them was.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Josquius on April 09, 2017, 03:59:20 PM
Not an Islamic extremist signs suggest.
Looks like it's the same situation as the Berlin attacks. Secular guy, failed asylum seeker, can't face returning home a failure so flips out.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on April 09, 2017, 05:13:10 PM
Nothing on Egypt?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 09, 2017, 06:41:43 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 09, 2017, 05:13:10 PM
Nothing on Egypt?

Killed dozens, not really minor. 
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 09, 2017, 06:46:18 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 09, 2017, 06:41:43 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 09, 2017, 05:13:10 PM
Nothing on Egypt?

Killed dozens, not really minor.

You haven't started a new MEGATHREAD for it, so how major could it be? :unsure:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 09, 2017, 06:47:12 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 09, 2017, 06:46:18 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on April 09, 2017, 06:41:43 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 09, 2017, 05:13:10 PM
Nothing on Egypt?

Killed dozens, not really minor.

You haven't started a new MEGATHREAD for it, so how major could it be? :unsure:

Lot of Egypt threads, but I'm not sure which to put it in, so this one's good enough.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/egypt-palm-sunday-church-blasts-kill-least-37-n744296

Quote

Egypt Palm Sunday Church Blasts Kill at Least 38

by Charlene Gubash, Saphora Smith, Daniella Silva and Associated Press

Two blasts targeting Egyptian churches on Palm Sunday killed at least 38 people and wounded more than 100, according to Health Ministry officials.

Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sissi on Sunday evening declared a three-month state of emergency after the blasts rocked two churches, killing dozens.

The first attack hit the St. George Church, packed with worshipers in the Nile Delta town of Tanta, north of the Egyptian capital, killing at least 27 people and wounding 78 others, authorities said.

Hours later a second blast went off in front of St Mark's Cathedral in Alexandria, killing some 11 and injuring 35. A local police chief was killed in this explosion in the coastal city, the Ministry of Interior told Egyptian television.

Among the dead were two male members and one female member of the church's security personnel, authorities said.

Global security firm and NBC News consultant Flashpoint Intelligence said that ISIS-affiliated Amaq Media said the terror group carried out the two church attacks. NBC News has not been able to authenticate this claim.

A local ISIS affiliate claimed a suicide bombing at a church in Cairo in December that killed around 30 people, mostly women, as well as a string of killings in the restive Sinai Peninsula that caused hundreds of Christians to flee to safer areas of the country.

Alexandria is the historic seat of the Coptic Orthodox Pope, who currently resides in Cairo. Eyewitnesses of the second bombing said the explosion occurred just after Pope Tawadros II left the cathedral.The state news agency confirmed that the Pope is safe.

Witnesses told NBC News that people were leaving the cathedral when a suicide bomber was stopped at a checkpoint by a police officer. The man then reportedly detonated his explosives, killing the officer who stopped him, as well as others.

El-Sissi said in a statement that he condemned the "heinous explosion" and offered his "deepest condolences and solace" to the victims' families. The Egyptian president also called for an urgent meeting of his National Defense Council, according to the statement.

U.S. President Donald Trump said on twitter it was "so sad to hear of the terrorist attack in Egypt," adding he had confidence that El-Sissi would "handle the situation properly."

The attacks are the latest in a series of assaults on Egypt's Christian minority, which makes up around 10 percent of the population and has been repeatedly targeted by Islamic extremists.

Local TV showed footage from inside the church in Tanta, where a large number of people gathered around what appeared to be lifeless, bloody bodies covered with papers.

Pope Francis, who is due to travel to Egypt later in April, condemned the killings and appealed to terrorists, arms manufacturers and traffickers to stop.

Grand Sheikh Ahmed el-Tayeb, head of Egypt's Al-Azhar — the leading center of learning in Sunni Islam — also condemned the violence, calling it a "despicable terrorist bombing that targeted the lives of innocents," AP reported.

Egypt has struggled to combat a wave of Islamic militancy since the 2013 military overthrow of an elected Islamist president.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Liep on April 11, 2017, 01:25:39 PM
Explosions near Dortmunds player bus, one player injured according to Twitter
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Liep on April 11, 2017, 01:41:26 PM
Quote from: Liep on April 11, 2017, 01:25:39 PM
Explosions near Dortmunds player bus, one player injured according to Twitter

Game cancelled, might as well as everyone was going to see juve-barca anyway.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Zanza on April 12, 2017, 02:23:32 AM
Federal prosecutors are now considering this to be an islamist terror attack as there was a letter found that claims responsibility.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Josquius on April 12, 2017, 03:20:27 AM
Quote from: Zanza on April 12, 2017, 02:23:32 AM
Federal prosecutors are now considering this to be an islamist terror attack as there was a letter found that claims responsibility.

Where did you read this?
I've heard of a letter claiming responsibility but not for who.

I was suspecting anti Islamic gits tbh
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Malicious Intent on April 12, 2017, 07:26:05 AM
Spiegel reports one islamist suspect arrested, a second one is still at large.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 12, 2017, 03:49:12 PM
Quote from: Tyr on April 12, 2017, 03:20:27 AM
I was suspecting anti Islamic gits tbh

Aren't they all soccer hooligans?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 18, 2017, 12:55:19 PM
Since there is no counter-terrorism thread:

QuoteFrench police arrest two 'for planning terrorist attack during presidential election'

Two men were arrested on Tuesday in Marseille, southern France, on suspicion of planning an attack during the presidential election which is set to begin Sunday, the French interior minister said.

The two men "intended to commit an attack on French soil in the very short term, which is to say in the coming days", Interior Minister Matthias Fekl said at a brief news conference.

France votes Sunday in the first round of its two-stage election, with security ramped up for the ballot after a series of attacks in recent years that have made security one of the major issues of the campaign.

FRENCH POLICE FOIL PLANNED ATTACK DURING PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION


The men, both French, one born in 1987 and the other in 1993, are "suspected of wanting to commit, in an imminent way, a violent action on the eve of the French presidential election", the minister said.

He gave no details about potential targets or motives.

Agents from the French internal security agency, backed by elite police units, conducted the arrests.

France has been under a state of emergency, which has been extended several times, in the face of Islamist militant attacks in Paris and other parts of the country in which more than 230 people have been killed.

(FRANCE 24 with AP and REUTERS)

http://www.france24.com/en/20170418-france-police-arrest-two-suspects-over-imminent-attack-elections (http://www.france24.com/en/20170418-france-police-arrest-two-suspects-over-imminent-attack-elections)

One is a convert, the other is of North African origin.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on April 18, 2017, 12:58:16 PM
What was their goal? To make sure the FN got elected?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 18, 2017, 02:02:33 PM
To be fair, Fillon has mentioned repeatedly he would fight islamic totalitarism so he would make a good target for islamists.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Josquius on April 21, 2017, 01:58:42 AM
So it seems the football bus bombing wasn't muslims after all
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Larch on April 21, 2017, 02:58:01 AM
Quote from: Tyr on April 21, 2017, 01:58:42 AM
So it seems the football bus bombing wasn't muslims after all

The guy they've arrested is a stock trader that wanted to make money from Borussia's shares falling due to the attack, apparently. The mind boggles...

QuoteBorussia Dortmund bombs: 'Speculator' charged with bus attack

Police in Germany have charged a man suspected of being behind an attack on the Borussia Dortmund team bus.

Rather than having links to radical Islamism, he was a market trader hoping to make money if the price of shares in the team fell, prosecutors say.

The 28-year-old, identified only as Sergej W, was staying in the team's hotel in a room overlooking the street where the explosion took place.
(...)
In a statement on Friday (in German), the German federal prosecutor's office said the 28-year-old, who has German and Russian nationality, had been charged with attempted murder. He was arrested early on Friday near Tübingen in Baden-Wuerttemberg in south-west Germany.

The suspect had allegedly bought options to short-sell 15,000 shares of stock - reportedly priced at €78,000 (£65,000; $83,600) - in Borussia Dortmund. He would have profited from falling share prices after the attack.

He was staying at the team's L'Arrivée hotel in Dortmund on the day of the attack and had moved to a room on the top floor, overlooking the street where it took place, prosecutors say.

The suspect placed the bet on 11 April using an IP address traced to the hotel, after taking out a loan for the money.
Investigators believe three explosive devices packed with metal pins were hidden in a hedge and set off as the bus passed.
(...)
Borussia Dortmund's stock did drop from €5.738 to a low of €5.421 after the attack. Having recovered slightly it slid again after the team was eliminated from the Champions League.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 21, 2017, 05:21:30 AM
Religion of peace strikes again; I'm sure  you all missed it!

I was in the area around the time, but far away enough. Got a couple of calls and sms from relatives.

If there were any doubts about Marine making it to the second round, they are gone. Might enable Fillon to make it though.

Conflicting reports about the perpetrator, S sheet or not? Convicted already in 2005, 15 years to serve. I guess some judge screwed up, again.

Fun fact: the perpetrator was born the same year as Macron.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/21/paris-shooting-police-search-property-as-isis-claims-responsibility (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/21/paris-shooting-police-search-property-as-isis-claims-responsibility)

QuoteParis shooting: home linked to suspect searched as Isis claims responsibility
Police sources say suspect was arrested in February on suspicion of plotting to kill police officers but released




Police in France have searched a property believed to be the family home of a known terror suspect who shot dead one policeman and seriously wounded two others in an attack two days before voting opens in an already tense presidential election.

The gunman stepped from a car and opened fire on a police van with an automatic rifle outside a Marks & Spencer store on the Champs Élysées at about 9pm on Thursday.

The attacker, a 39-year-old man widely named named as Karim Cheurfi, was known to French security services. He was shot dead by police while trying to flee on foot. A statement from the Isis propaganda agency, Amaq, said the attack was carried out by an "Islamic State fighter".

After a series of atrocities that have killed more than 230 people in France over the past two years, authorities had long feared bloodshed in the run-up to polling day. The attack could bring security to the forefront of voters' concerns in Sunday's first round.

Police were searching a house in the eastern Paris suburb of Chelles early on Friday, believed to be Cheurfi's family home. Police sources told local media the man had been arrested in February on suspicion of plotting to kill police officers but released because of lack of evidence.

Isis named the shooter as Abu Yusuf al-Beljiki, or "the Belgian". A police arrest warrant issued earlier on Thursday and seen by Reuters news agency mentioned a dangerous individual who had entered France by train from Belgium on Thursday.

But the nationality of the attacker was uncertain on Friday morning. The Belgian federal prosector's office said it had no information on the suspect nor evidence that Cheurfi was from Belgium.


In an interview with French radio, France's interior ministry spokesman, Pierre-Henry Brandet, said police were hunting a second suspect in connection with the shooting, following a tip-off from Belgian security officials.

Le Parisien reported that Cheurfi had served 15 years in prison after being convicted of three attempted murders, two against policemen, in 2001, adding that the search address matched that of the owner of the car used in the attack.

The suspect was, however, not on the Fiche-S, the national list of people suspected of being a threat to national security.

The outgoing president, François Hollande, said on Thursday night he was convinced the shooting was a "terrorist act". He paid tribute to the police and pledged "absolute vigilance, particularly with regard to the electoral process".

The second police officer, critically injured when the gunman shot him in the back, was recovering in hospital.

Three members of the suspect's family have been questioned by police.

Hollande was chairing a security cabinet meeting on Friday morning, part of government efforts to protect the vote, which is taking place under already heightened security with more than 50,000 police and soldiers mobilised and a state of emergency in place since 2015.

The interior ministry spokesman said the officers had been deliberately targeted and authorities were trying to determine whether "one or more people" might have helped the attacker. A female foreign tourist was also slightly wounded in the attack.

The interior minister, Matthias Fekl, said: "The sense of duty of our policemen tonight averted a massacre ... they prevented a bloodbath on the Champs Élysées."

It is difficult to predict the impact of the attack on the election, which polls suggest is too close to call. How the candidates judge the public mood and respond could well influence their chances.

Three of the frontrunners – the far-right leader Marine Le Pen, independent centrist Emmanuel Macron and scandal-hit conservative François Fillon – cancelled events on Friday, the final day of campaigning.

The attack happened while the 11 first-round contestants were appearing on a live interview show on French television. Speaking before the shooting, Le Pen said security should be at the heart of the campaign. "We are suffering the consequences of a laxity that has continued for years," she said.

Speaking later, the Front National leader repeated her call for Europe's internal borders to be closed, saying she was "deeply angry" as well as sad for the police victims, "because not everything is done ... to protect our compatriots. They need more than our compassion."

Macron, who was interviewed on the show after news broke of the attack, said the first duty of France's president was to protect, adding that the terror threat "will be a part of our daily lives over the coming years". Fillon said the fight against terrorism must be the next president's "absolute priority".

Foreign leaders also responded to the attack. The US president, Donald Trump, said it "looks like another terrorist attack. What can you say? It just never ends." His vice-president, Mike Pence, said the shooting was "the latest reminder that terrorism can strike anywhere at any time".

The broad Champs Élysées avenue, which reopened on Friday, was sealed off for much of Thursday night as police ordered tourists back into hotels and blocked people from approaching the scene. Emergency vehicles blocked access and metro stations were closed.

France has been on its highest possible level of terror alert since the 2015 Charlie Hebdo and Paris attacks and the Nice truck attack of 2016. Thousands of troops and armed police have been deployed to guard tourist hotspots such as the Champs Élysées and other potential targets.

This week, two men were arrested in Marseille on suspicion of planning an attack before the election. A machine-gun, two handguns and three kilos of TATP explosive were found at a flat in the southern city, along with Isis propaganda material.

Polls have suggested Le Pen and Macron are the most likely candidates to go through to the second-round runoff on 7 May, but Fillon and the hard-left candidate Jean-Luc Mélenchon are only two or three points behind, and up to 25% of voters have yet to make up their minds, meaning any two of the four could qualify.


Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on April 21, 2017, 05:24:38 AM
Reporting on this (top billing on many news sites) reminds me to be annoyed about how it is covered vs. news of all those people murdered at church on Palm Sunday at Egypt. But then people are always most interested in themselves.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on April 21, 2017, 05:26:17 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/21/overreact-paris-attack-terrorism-just-never-end

QuoteIf we overreact to this attack on Paris then terrorism will 'just never end'

When politicians such as Donald Trump rush to publicise terrorist incidents they turn violent crimes into global events and bestow celebrity on fanatics

"It just never ends," says Donald Trump, referring to the shooting in Paris last night. He is right, but not as he means it. What never ends is the readiness of politicians to rush to publicise and thus enhance and promote terrorist incidents. Once again Islamic State's useful idiots are turning a violent crime on a Paris street into a global event. French ministers are plunging into their bunker. French election candidates are cancelling their campaigns. The only sane response was from an early jogger in the Champs Élysées. Asked how she could be in such a place, she replied: "Why not? We continue as normal."

Fat chance. The presumed intention of the now dead attacker was to deflect the news agenda on the eve of the first round of the French election. If he was clever, he was also hoping to boost the fortunes of the rightwinger Marine Le Pen, and thus incur a responsive militancy among the Muslim community. He will have been encouraged by the global publicity given to last month's stabbing of a policeman in London. By far the greatest risk of similar acts disrupting Britain's forthcoming election is how far we publicise and react to this one.

We must always be careful how we describe the mental state of suicide killers, but they are clearly not susceptible to deterrence or armed response. The only constructive way to contain them is prior intelligence from the communities and cells within which they operate, though their often solitary character makes even this difficult. As for the ugly, surely useless, fortress barriers now going up across London's West End, they suggest a city quivering in capitulation. They fly in the face of Theresa May's claim that "we are not afraid".

Yet again we must understand that terrorism is not an ideology, not a war, certainly not a nation. It is a weapon in an argument, a method of making a political point. As such, it is 10% crime, 10% news of that crime, and 80% wild exaggeration of its "cause" as media and politicians climb on to its bandwagon. The reward for fanaticism is a celebrity that is now beyond all sense or reason. There is no real defence against a terrorist except to deny him that 80% celebrity.

If we wish to turn Britain's forthcoming election into a security-drenched hell, we will do so by overreacting to Paris. That way we will ensure that terrorism "just never ends".
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 21, 2017, 05:27:38 AM
Well, the left here is not really interested in christians, refugees or not, even if they are arabic regarding the Palm Sunday attack, which is not a minor terrorist attack, covered by this thread.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on April 21, 2017, 05:28:43 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 21, 2017, 05:27:38 AM
Well, the left here is not really interested in christians, refugees or not, even if they are arabic regarding the Palm Sunday attack, which is not a minor terrorist attack, covered by this thread.

Ah, that was said the last time I mentioned it - and yet we also didn't have any other thread about it on Languish. Nor did it remain a major news story for long.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 21, 2017, 05:35:32 AM
Having Tim mentioning it tainted it?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Josquius on April 21, 2017, 06:46:05 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 21, 2017, 05:21:30 AM
Religion of peace strikes again; I'm sure  you all missed it!

I was in the area around the time, but far away enough. Got a couple of calls and sms from relatives.

If there were any doubts about Marine making it to the second round, they are gone. Might enable Fillon to make it though.

Conflicting reports about the perpetrator, S sheet or not? Convicted already in 2005, 15 years to serve. I guess some judge screwed up, again.

Fun

Precisely the reason this attack was commited.
Get all the sheep to back le pen then sit back and wait for her to start oppressing Muslims. Bake for 20 mins et voila. Religious war. Exactly what they want.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Tamas on April 21, 2017, 06:47:56 AM
This morning when the local correspondent for ITV reported in from the scene of the crime, you could see at least half a dozen other TV crews as well.

I wonder, maybe it is just a matter of what is convenient for the media to be turned into a story? You can be sent down to Paris easily, do a nice coverage, have a nice hotel on company expenses. WAY harder to do it in Egypt.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 21, 2017, 07:09:50 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 21, 2017, 05:24:38 AM
Reporting on this (top billing on many news sites) reminds me to be annoyed about how it is covered vs. news of all those people murdered at church on Palm Sunday at Egypt. But then people are always most interested in themselves.

Everyone has already forecast attacks like this prior to the French vote--radical moose lambs want Le Pen in as much as the racists do.  There will be more until the election, like little Wikileaks time-release Clinton emails of death.  So feel free to play along, France.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Maladict on April 21, 2017, 07:55:10 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 21, 2017, 05:21:30 AM
Fun fact: the perpetrator was born the same year as Macron.

Haven't had this much fun in ages. Thanks for that.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 21, 2017, 09:33:42 AM
Quote from: Maladict on April 21, 2017, 07:55:10 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 21, 2017, 05:21:30 AM
Fun fact: the perpetrator was born the same year as Macron.

Haven't had this much fun in ages. Thanks for that.

En marche !
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Jacob on April 21, 2017, 09:47:16 AM
The BBC is reporting that the attack on the Dortmund players was likely perpetrated by someone trying to make money from short selling Dortmund stock.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on April 21, 2017, 02:17:31 PM
Quote from: Jacob on April 21, 2017, 09:47:16 AM
The BBC is reporting that the attack on the Dortmund players was likely perpetrated by someone trying to make money from short selling Dortmund stock.

MiM and Yi will be congratulating him on his creative investment strategy.  :P
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2017, 03:59:58 PM
Quote from: Tyr on April 21, 2017, 06:46:05 AM
Precisely the reason this attack was commited.
Get all the sheep to back le pen then sit back and wait for her to start oppressing Muslims. Bake for 20 mins et voila. Religious war. Exactly what they want.

This sounds to me more like the rationalization of someone who prefers touchy feely policies (for whatever reason, probably first principles) than a carefully considered analysis of the motivations and goals of terrorists.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on April 21, 2017, 04:09:43 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2017, 03:59:58 PM
Quote from: Tyr on April 21, 2017, 06:46:05 AM
Precisely the reason this attack was commited.
Get all the sheep to back le pen then sit back and wait for her to start oppressing Muslims. Bake for 20 mins et voila. Religious war. Exactly what they want.

This sounds to me more like the rationalization of someone who prefers touchy feely policies (for whatever reason, probably first principles) than a carefully considered analysis of the motivations and goals of terrorists.

There have been a couple of interesting War College podcasts on that subject, worth catching up with.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Jacob on April 21, 2017, 04:12:22 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2017, 03:59:58 PM
This sounds to me more like the rationalization of someone who prefers touchy feely policies (for whatever reason, probably first principles) than a carefully considered analysis of the motivations and goals of terrorists.

You don't think some terrorists are motivated by accelerationism?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Razgovory on April 21, 2017, 05:55:51 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2017, 03:59:58 PM
Quote from: Tyr on April 21, 2017, 06:46:05 AM
Precisely the reason this attack was commited.
Get all the sheep to back le pen then sit back and wait for her to start oppressing Muslims. Bake for 20 mins et voila. Religious war. Exactly what they want.

This sounds to me more like the rationalization of someone who prefers touchy feely policies (for whatever reason, probably first principles) than a carefully considered analysis of the motivations and goals of terrorists.

This is how the communists thought.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on April 22, 2017, 04:31:50 AM
Quote from: Jacob on April 21, 2017, 04:12:22 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2017, 03:59:58 PM
This sounds to me more like the rationalization of someone who prefers touchy feely policies (for whatever reason, probably first principles) than a carefully considered analysis of the motivations and goals of terrorists.

You don't think some terrorists are motivated by accelerationism?

Yeah, I mean what is a terrorist other than someone hoping to motivate people into particular courses of action through fear? I suppose there could be terrorists naive enough to think they could scare western nations into doing nothing, but given how we continue to overreact, I can't think that theory holds sway for the majority of these terrorists.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Zoupa on April 22, 2017, 11:21:12 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 21, 2017, 05:28:43 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 21, 2017, 05:27:38 AM
Well, the left here is not really interested in christians, refugees or not, even if they are arabic regarding the Palm Sunday attack, which is not a minor terrorist attack, covered by this thread.

Ah, that was said the last time I mentioned it - and yet we also didn't have any other thread about it on Languish. Nor did it remain a major news story for long.

Such an astute observation.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: dps on April 23, 2017, 12:18:22 AM
Quote from: garbon on April 22, 2017, 04:31:50 AM
Quote from: Jacob on April 21, 2017, 04:12:22 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 21, 2017, 03:59:58 PM
This sounds to me more like the rationalization of someone who prefers touchy feely policies (for whatever reason, probably first principles) than a carefully considered analysis of the motivations and goals of terrorists.

You don't think some terrorists are motivated by accelerationism?

Yeah, I mean what is a terrorist other than someone hoping to motivate people into particular courses of action through fear? I suppose there could be terrorists naive enough to think they could scare western nations into doing nothing, but given how we continue to overreact, I can't think that theory holds sway for the majority of these terrorists.

I think you're giving them too much credit.  Most terrorists, I think, are probably either trying to achieve goals that their attacks have no real hope of bring about (like forcing the US to withdraw any troops we have in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States), or just want to kill infidels, or are just blindly striking out with no coherent though-out goals.

Now the people who aren't actually carrying out terrorist attacks, but are the organizers, suppliers, and other supporters behind them, that's another story.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Maximus on April 23, 2017, 11:47:02 AM
Quote from: dps on April 23, 2017, 12:18:22 AM
I think you're giving them too much credit.  Most terrorists, I think, are probably either trying to achieve goals that their attacks have no real hope of bring about (like forcing the US to withdraw any troops we have in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States), or just want to kill infidels, or are just blindly striking out with no coherent though-out goals.

Now the people who aren't actually carrying out terrorist attacks, but are the organizers, suppliers, and other supporters behind them, that's another story.
I think you have too narrow of a definition of terrorist.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: dps on April 23, 2017, 05:51:14 PM
Quote from: Maximus on April 23, 2017, 11:47:02 AM

I think you have too narrow of a definition of terrorist.

Care to elaborate on that, or even just explain exactly what you think my definition of terrorist is?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on April 23, 2017, 05:56:56 PM
Quote from: dps on April 23, 2017, 05:51:14 PM
Quote from: Maximus on April 23, 2017, 11:47:02 AM

I think you have too narrow of a definition of terrorist.

Care to elaborate on that, or even just explain exactly what you think my definition of terrorist is?

CdM has been terrorising this forum for years.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 23, 2017, 05:58:16 PM
Assholes deserve it.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on April 23, 2017, 06:01:57 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 23, 2017, 05:58:16 PM
Assholes deserve it.

I wasn't disapproving.  :D
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 23, 2017, 09:26:45 PM
Quote from: dps on April 23, 2017, 05:51:14 PM
Quote from: Maximus on April 23, 2017, 11:47:02 AM

I think you have too narrow of a definition of terrorist.

Care to elaborate on that, or even just explain exactly what you think my definition of terrorist is?

He's saying organizers and suppliers are also terrorists.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: dps on April 23, 2017, 09:32:38 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 23, 2017, 09:26:45 PM
Quote from: dps on April 23, 2017, 05:51:14 PM
Quote from: Maximus on April 23, 2017, 11:47:02 AM

I think you have too narrow of a definition of terrorist.

Care to elaborate on that, or even just explain exactly what you think my definition of terrorist is?

He's saying organizers and suppliers are also terrorists.

I wasn't saying that they aren't.  I was merely saying that subtle thinking isn't a hallmark of most terrorists, and that minority who do have subtle, long-term plans are likely to be among the organizers, not the guys actually carrying out the attacks.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Maximus on April 24, 2017, 10:08:17 AM
What Eddie said.

Quote from: dps on April 23, 2017, 09:32:38 PM
subtle thinking isn't a hallmark of most terrorists
And you're basing this statement on what?

Quoteand that minority who do have subtle, long-term plans are likely to be among the organizers, not the guys actually carrying out the attacks.
And if this were true, so what? What difference does it make whether the plans are made by the guys in front or the guys behind?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 24, 2017, 11:53:22 AM
In the Russian Far East, not far from China. First Russian reports blamed a neo-nazi, then Daesh claimed it.  :hmm:

QuoteRussia's Federal Security Service said on Friday that a gunman had burst into one of its regional offices in the far east of the country and opened fire, killing one of its employees and a visitor.

The region where the incident happened is close to China. The FSB, the successor organization to the Soviet KGB, said the attacker had been killed and that another person had been injured in the incident.

"An unknown person entered the reception of the FSB's Khabarovsk regional branch and started shooting at people inside," the FSB said in a statement.

The Site Intelligence Group, a U.S.-based monitoring service, said that Islamic State had claimed responsibility for the attack. It said that the claim of responsibility had been made through the militant group's Amaq news agency.

That contradicted earlier media reports, which said the FSB believed the gunman was a nationalist. The TASS news agency cited an unnamed FSB official as saying that the gunman was a local resident and born in 1999.

The visitor who was killed and the one who was injured were from former Soviet states outside Russia, according to the security service.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-attack-idUSKBN17N17C?il=0 (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-attack-idUSKBN17N17C?il=0)
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on April 24, 2017, 12:04:16 PM
Daesh claiming it means nothing. If I shot myself right now Daesh would claim credit.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 24, 2017, 12:12:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 24, 2017, 12:04:16 PM
Daesh claiming it means nothing. If I shot myself right now Daesh would claim credit.

I don't know why people even report that;  lefty groups used to do it all the time in the 1970s, and they didn't even know all the facts of what happened before they called in a communique.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 24, 2017, 12:18:36 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 24, 2017, 12:12:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 24, 2017, 12:04:16 PM
Daesh claiming it means nothing. If I shot myself right now Daesh would claim credit.

I don't know why people even report that;  lefty groups used to do it all the time in the 1970s, and they didn't even know all the facts of what happened before they called in a communique.

My point is that neo-nazis does not seem very convincing too.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on April 24, 2017, 12:20:34 PM
Concur.  Waiting on the Russians to pin it on a Latvian.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Solmyr on April 24, 2017, 12:22:22 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 24, 2017, 12:20:34 PM
Concur.  Waiting on the Russians to pin it on a Latvian.

Or domestic liberal opposition.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Barrister on April 24, 2017, 12:31:19 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on April 24, 2017, 12:22:22 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 24, 2017, 12:20:34 PM
Concur.  Waiting on the Russians to pin it on a Latvian.

Or domestic liberal opposition.

Nah - Russians always blame foreigners. There is no domestic opposition in Russia - only foreign agents and neo-nazis.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: celedhring on April 25, 2017, 02:27:59 PM
A combined Spanish-Belgian investigation has ended up with the arrest of 9 jihadists in the Barcelona area, some of them reportedly tied with the perpetrators of the Brussels airport/subway bombings.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Syt on April 28, 2017, 02:40:05 AM
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/german-soldier-syria-refugee-false-flag-terror-attack-posing-arrested-frankfurt-france-bavaria-a7705231.html

QuoteGerman soldier posing as a Syrian refugee arrested for planning 'false flag' terror attack

Investigators say lieutenant stashed gun at Vienna airport to be used in 'act of state-threatening violence'

A German soldier found posing as a Syrian refugee has been arrested for allegedly planning a "false flag" shooting attack that would be blamed on asylum seekers.

The unidentified soldier was detained when he went to retrieve a loaded pistol he had hidden in a bathroom at Vienna International Airport.

The public prosecutor's office in Frankfurt said the 28-year-old is suspected of planning a serious "state-threatening act of violence", fraud and violating firearms laws.

More than 90 German police officers have worked alongside Austrian and French security forces to search 16 locations across three countries on Wednesday, when a suspected accomplice was arrested in Bavaria.

Investigations have revealed that the Bundeswehr lieutenant was stationed at Illkirch-Graffenstaden in France before registering as a refugee back in Germany.

He gave false information to authorities in Giessen, Hesse, on 30 December 2015 – as Germany was overwhelmed by the arrival of almost a million asylum seekers.

Posing as a Syrian refugee but reportedly speaking in French, rather than Arabic, the man submitted an asylum application at Zirndorf in Bavaria in January last year.

"As a result, he was given shelter in a refugee home and has received monthly financial benefits under this false identity,"
the Frankfurt prosecutor's office said.

"These findings, as well as other evidence, point towards a xenophobic motive for the soldier's suspected plan to commit an attack using a weapon deposited at Vienna airport."

If his plan had succeeded, his fingerprints would have registered on the refugee records system and led investigators to his false identity as a Syrian asylum seeker, turning fresh scrutiny on migrants in Germany.

Isis has previously used a similar ploy, giving its militants fake Syrian passports that were found at the scene of the Paris attacks.

The man's suspected accomplice, a 24-year-old student, was arrested in Hammelburg for alleged involvement in the plot.

Police have searched the homes of the two suspects as well as their friends and workplaces, with detectives seizing "extensive material" including mobile phones, laptops and documents.

Prosecutors said the soldier had no permission for the 7.65mm pistol stashed in Vienna, while illegal weapons were also found at his accomplice's house.

Both men remain in custody in Frankfurt as the probe continues.

The soldier was arrested days after prosecutors revealed that the man who orchestrated the Dortmund bus bombings had attempted to frame Isis to make money on shares.

Sergej W, a dual German-Russian national, detonated three bombs targeting a bus carrying the Borussia Dortmund football team, seriously injuring one player on 11 April.

He left misspelled letters at the scene claiming the attack was retaliation for German military intervention against Isis, but investigations found he was not an Islamist but a trader planning to profit from short-selling shares.

A series of Isis-inspired terror attacks and plots in Germany have raised tensions leading into September's federal elections, where Angela Merkel is battling to win a fourth term as Chancellor.

Right-wing groups have blamed her decision to open borders to refugees in 2015, while extremists have launched hundreds of attacks on asylum seekers' accommodation.

At least two neo-Nazi terror plots have been uncovered, while security services have cracked down on the anti-government Reichsbürger movement after one of its members killed a police officer.

Division over asylum, immigration and security has driven clashes at protests and political rallies, driving a record year for politically-motivated crime in Germany.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Larch on April 28, 2017, 04:25:18 AM
Now that's convoluted.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Zanza on May 09, 2017, 12:40:06 PM
The federal criminal police has arrested at least one more soldier and one civilian as supposed accomplices of the first soldier. More soldiers are being investigated. They had stolen ammunition from the army and had bought a rifle in Vienna. They found a death list with 25 names with the first soldier, among them the former federal president Gauck and the current minister of justice Maas as highest priority targets. The prosecutors believe that they had concrete plans for assassinations. This is now treated as forming a terrorist group, which is a federal felony.

The minister of defence has used the German word for "purge" with regard to our military.  :ph34r: I guess they'll crack down as hard as they can now, but there are lots of reactionaries and right-wing sympathizers in the armed forces.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 06, 2017, 02:08:38 PM
Another failed attack. Suspect is atypical though. Married and post graduate. No criminal record  :hmm:

http://www.france24.com/en/20170606-suspect-shot-wounded-attack-police-officer-notre-dame-france (http://www.france24.com/en/20170606-suspect-shot-wounded-attack-police-officer-notre-dame-france)

QuoteFrance

Suspect shot and wounded after attacking police outside Notre Dame cathedral


The Paris prefecture of police tweeted an alert urging people to avoid the area.

Police took to Twitter to urge people to stay away from Notre Dame and the island located in central Paris known as Île de la Cité. Numerous police cars have filled the area and an ambulance was seen leaving the scene.

Police officials said a man armed with a hammer attacked and lightly wounded a police officer who was patrolling in front of the cathedral. The attacker was then "neutralised" by police and taken to hospital.

Speaking to reporters after arriving at the scene, French Interior Minister Gérard Collomb said the attacker shouted, "This is for Syria!" before he struck. Collomb said the suspect was carrying an Algerian student identity card and appears to have acted alone.

Prosecutors said earlier that they had opened an anti-terrorism probe into the incident.

The cathedral was placed on lockdown and visitors took shelter inside as the police operation was under way in the square. Witnesses said those inside were asked to raise their hands over their heads.

France remains in a state of emergency and at its highest terror warning level after a series of terrorist attacks in recent years.

Smaller, "lone wolf" attacks have often targeted France's security forces. A police officer was killed and two others were wounded on April 20 when an attacker opened fire on their vehicle on the Champs-Élysées avenue. A 39-year-old man was killed at Paris's Orly Airport in March after attacking a soldier while a man armed with a machete attacked soldiers on patrol at the Louvre Museum in February.

Thousands of troops and armed police have been deployed to guard tourist hotspots such as the Champs-Élysées or other potential targets, including government buildings and religious sites.

France has been on high alert since January 2015, when gunmen killed 17 people in attacks at the Charlie Hebdo satirical magazine and a Kosher supermarket. Several bars and restaurants in Paris, including the Bataclan concert hall, were targeted in attacks that left 130 dead on November 13 of that same year. A truck rammed through a festive crowd gathered for a Bastille Day fireworks display in Nice in July 2016, leaving more than 80 people dead.

In September last year, three women were charged in connection with a failed terror plot after seven gas cylinders was discovered in a car near Notre Dame cathedral. Officials later said the women had been planning to attack one of Paris's largest railway stations, the Gare de Lyon.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2017, 02:14:51 PM
Wait the French are responsible for Syria now? How? They even opposed the invasion of Iraq.

Edit: Ah ok ISIS wants its people to attack everybody attacking them.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 06, 2017, 02:19:59 PM
Well, I guess this is for daring to oppose Daesh.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 13, 2017, 03:14:27 PM
Well, the perpetrator, Massif Farid Ikken, is an interesting fellow, a 40-year old student (post-graduate) who contributed some articles to the Rue 89 website, linked to L'OBS, a left-wing intelligentsia paper.  :lol:
Described as socially conscious, and feminist.  :lmfao:
His thesis advisor, very much on the left, described him as sweet as a lamb. :lol:

QuoteLa rédactrice en chef adjointe de Rue89, Blandine Grosjean, qui a longuement échangé avec lui par mail, décrit un journaliste "sérieux, impliqué socialement, soucieux de la cause féministe".

http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/rue89/rue89-nos-vies-connectees/20170607.OBS0374/farid-ikken-l-agresseur-de-notre-dame-un-journaliste-algerien-pigiste-en-2013-a-rue89.html (http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/rue89/rue89-nos-vies-connectees/20170607.OBS0374/farid-ikken-l-agresseur-de-notre-dame-un-journaliste-algerien-pigiste-en-2013-a-rue89.html)

Previously, he studied journalism in Sweden. Maybe the Brain can find one of his contributions?  :P
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on June 13, 2017, 03:19:40 PM
Damn. I guess you never can tell.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 13, 2017, 03:21:50 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 13, 2017, 03:19:40 PM
Damn. I guess you never can tell.

Specially, if you are naive and see muslims, like many on the left here, as the new Damnés de la terre.
The right-wing/conservative web sphere is having a field day with this.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on June 13, 2017, 03:23:26 PM
Oh wait did he describe himself as a socially conscious feminist? What was the nature of the articles he wrote?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 13, 2017, 03:27:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 13, 2017, 03:23:26 PM
Oh wait did he describe himself as a socially conscious feminist? What was the nature of the articles he wrote?

He did not describe himself as socially conscious, or feminist but people who worked with him described his as such.
He wrote two papers about poverty and corruption in Algeria, and insufficient healthcare for women, again in Algeria.

QuoteLe premier papier publié sur Rue89 porte sur la médecine à deux vitesses en Algérie. Il y montre que les victimes du cancer n'ont pas les mêmes chances de survie quand elles ont du piston.

"Trouver un rendez-vous pour une opération chirurgicale ou de la radiothérapie sans recourir aux « relations », comme on dit ici, relève de l'impossible aujourd'hui en Algérie. Tout le monde ne peut pas, comme le président Bouteflika, se faire soigner au Val-de-Grâce."

Le deuxième article, sur une idée de la rédactrice en chef de Rue89, parlait des femmes algériennes en exil : du long chemin qu'il faut parcourir pour être respectée dans le pays d'accueil et celui d'origine.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on June 14, 2017, 07:13:49 AM
Is this an act of terrorism or maybe they were caught up in some criminal act?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40275055 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40275055)

Quote
lican hit' in multiple shooting14 June 2017
From the section
US & Canada     These are external links and will open in a new window
Share   


A US Republican politician and aides have been shot during baseball practice in Virginia, US reports say.

Police in the upmarket Washington DC suburb of Alexandria said they were investigating a "multiple shooting" and a suspect was in custody.

Fox News said House of Representatives Majority Whip Steve Scalise and aides have been hit by gunfire.

Police tweeted they were "investigating multiple shooting 400 block E Monroe St. Suspect believed in custody."

An apparent eyewitness said on Twitter that gunfire rang out at the YMCA baseball fields, by the Eugene Simpson Stadium Park.

The witness, @ben_childers, said it happened at a congressional baseball team practice session.

Local media report there is a major police presence after the attack.

Senator Mike Lee, a Utah Republican, texted Fox News to say that Mr Scalise had been shot in the hip and would survive.

He said someone had used a belt as a tourniquet on him.

Mr Lee said the shooter had used a long gun and was dead.

White House press secretary Sean Spicer tweeted that President Donald Trump was being briefed.

"Both @POTUS & @VP are aware of the developing situation in Virginia. Our thoughts and prayers are with all affected," Mr Spicer tweeted.

Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Liep on June 14, 2017, 07:24:16 AM
I have a friend in Alexandria on a business trip, he's updating from his hotel room that one congress member is dead and there's multiple shootings in the city. Then: "I'm leaving for the conference". I'd stay the fuck inside my room. :o
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on June 14, 2017, 07:37:39 AM
Wow that is terrible. I hope he fully recovers.

The shooter is dead eh? Interesting. Has ISIS taken credit yet?

Edit: The shooter was a middle aged overweight white guy. Moderate overweight middle aged white guys like myself condemn this attack.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on June 14, 2017, 07:50:51 AM
There is some kind of fire in London as well. Arson? I guess I am getting paranoid these days. The terrorists have won.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on June 14, 2017, 08:07:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 14, 2017, 07:50:51 AM
There is some kind of fire in London as well. Arson? I guess I am getting paranoid these days. The terrorists have won.

Yes, I'd reckon it would be a good idea to stop starting your own rumors.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on June 14, 2017, 08:30:23 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 14, 2017, 08:07:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 14, 2017, 07:50:51 AM
There is some kind of fire in London as well. Arson? I guess I am getting paranoid these days. The terrorists have won.

Yes, I'd reckon it would be a good idea to stop starting your own rumors.

My apologies. I was just saying my instinctive reaction, I did not mean to imply I knew anything.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: viper37 on June 14, 2017, 08:36:00 AM
Quote from: Liep on June 14, 2017, 07:24:16 AM
I'd stay the fuck inside my room. :o
If you were to do that everytime there's a shooting in the US, nobody would ever do anything.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: viper37 on June 14, 2017, 08:36:45 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 14, 2017, 07:50:51 AM
There is some kind of fire in London as well. Arson? I guess I am getting paranoid these days. The terrorists have won.
apparently, the building was a fire hazard, and building fire alarms were not heard, only individual smoke detectors.

There were renovations done in 2013, so I'm a little surprised that there would be no functionning alarms in the building, no sprinklers, no easily&sufficient stairwells with 1-2 hrs fire protection.  From the looks of it, it does seem to be a recent construction.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 14, 2017, 08:38:08 AM
Quote from: Liep on June 14, 2017, 07:24:16 AM
I have a friend in Alexandria on a business trip, he's updating from his hotel room that one congress member is dead and there's multiple shootings in the city. Then: "I'm leaving for the conference". I'd stay the fuck inside my room. :o

There's always multiple shootings in the city :lol:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: FunkMonk on June 14, 2017, 08:58:38 AM
Reporting in. Other than maybe a few extra Capitol Police around, nothing unusual here.  :bowler:

*activates FB American flag filter*
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Liep on June 14, 2017, 08:59:00 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 14, 2017, 08:38:08 AM
Quote from: Liep on June 14, 2017, 07:24:16 AM
I have a friend in Alexandria on a business trip, he's updating from his hotel room that one congress member is dead and there's multiple shootings in the city. Then: "I'm leaving for the conference". I'd stay the fuck inside my room. :o

There's always multiple shootings in the city :lol:

Forgive me, it's been months since there was a shooting here. :P
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 14, 2017, 10:34:32 AM
Oh snap
Not only is this an obviously partisan shooting--sez POTUS and Kellyanne--the shooter is from WAIT FOR IT Chicago.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on June 14, 2017, 10:35:23 AM
They wanted the street awash with guns.

Social media revealed him to be a Bernie supporter. And he hated on that Georgian candidate who says as a conservative she doesn't supporting a livable wage...
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: derspiess on June 14, 2017, 10:39:03 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 14, 2017, 10:34:32 AM
Oh snap
Not only is this an obviously partisan shooting--sez POTUS and Kellyanne--the shooter is from WAIT FOR IT Chicago.

I was hoping we'd get your detective expertise on the shooter and his motivation, without having to hear it from Drumpf and Kellyanne :(

I mean, you totally nailed the San Bernardino suspects and all.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 14, 2017, 10:53:53 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 14, 2017, 10:39:03 AM
I was hoping we'd get your detective expertise on the shooter and his motivation, without having to hear it from Drumpf and Kellyanne :(

I bet you were hoping it was one of those darkies you dream about capping one evening at Red Lobster even more, derniggerhater.
HE HAD SKITTLES

QuoteI mean, you totally nailed the San Bernardino suspects and all.

Workplace violence?  Yup.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on June 14, 2017, 10:59:48 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 14, 2017, 10:35:23 AM
They wanted the street awash with guns.

Social media revealed him to be a Bernie supporter. And he hated on that Georgian candidate who says as a conservative she doesn't supporting a livable wage...

Oh dear.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Grey Fox on June 14, 2017, 11:04:39 AM
Now, can we get gun control?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 14, 2017, 11:07:26 AM
That moron King (Moron, R-IA) says all this political violence is "coming from the left" LOL
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 14, 2017, 11:07:59 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 14, 2017, 11:04:39 AM
Now, can we get gun control?

This has nothing to do with gun control.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Grey Fox on June 14, 2017, 11:09:42 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 14, 2017, 11:07:59 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 14, 2017, 11:04:39 AM
Now, can we get gun control?

This has nothing to do with gun control.

He threw knifes?!
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: DontSayBanana on June 14, 2017, 11:10:32 AM
Way I see it, there are three possibilities:

1) Extreme unluckiness. This dude was looking to shoot up a bunch of people, and he happened on the field that just happened to have a bunch of congressmen on it. Wrong place, wrong time.

2) Stalker. This guy was looking for a particular congressman (maybe Scalise, maybe someone else) and had scoped out that they were likely to be at this game at this time. Support is that the shooter just happened to hit the only one there who was part of congressional leadership.

3) If Scalise hadn't brought his own security, you'd be looking at 20-30 congressmen without protection. For somebody looking to do as much damage as possible to the House, that would have been basically the perfect soft target.

My money's on 3, and I suspect we'll find some kind of manifesto after some digging.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on June 14, 2017, 11:15:37 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 14, 2017, 11:04:39 AM
Now, can we get gun control?

Never going to happen. The Supreme Court has spoken.

Well ok it would require an amendment to the Constitution.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on June 14, 2017, 11:16:05 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on June 14, 2017, 11:10:32 AM
Way I see it, there are three possibilities:

1) Extreme unluckiness. This dude was looking to shoot up a bunch of people, and he happened on the field that just happened to have a bunch of congressmen on it. Wrong place, wrong time.

2) Stalker. This guy was looking for a particular congressman (maybe Scalise, maybe someone else) and had scoped out that they were likely to be at this game at this time. Support is that the shooter just happened to hit the only one there who was part of congressional leadership.

3) If Scalise hadn't brought his own security, you'd be looking at 20-30 congressmen without protection. For somebody looking to do as much damage as possible to the House, that would have been basically the perfect soft target.

My money's on 3, and I suspect we'll find some kind of manifesto after some digging.

Seems like a Bernie supporter trying to take out the bad guys. I really hope that is not the case though.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on June 14, 2017, 11:19:41 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 14, 2017, 11:16:05 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on June 14, 2017, 11:10:32 AM
Way I see it, there are three possibilities:

1) Extreme unluckiness. This dude was looking to shoot up a bunch of people, and he happened on the field that just happened to have a bunch of congressmen on it. Wrong place, wrong time.

2) Stalker. This guy was looking for a particular congressman (maybe Scalise, maybe someone else) and had scoped out that they were likely to be at this game at this time. Support is that the shooter just happened to hit the only one there who was part of congressional leadership.

3) If Scalise hadn't brought his own security, you'd be looking at 20-30 congressmen without protection. For somebody looking to do as much damage as possible to the House, that would have been basically the perfect soft target.

My money's on 3, and I suspect we'll find some kind of manifesto after some digging.

Seems like a Bernie supporter trying to take out the bad guys. I really hope that is not the case though.

There was an early claim from one of the bystanders that he had asked first if they were Republicans or Democrats.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 14, 2017, 11:30:40 AM
Now see, that's the kind of politeness your usual right-wing violence has been missing.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: derspiess on June 14, 2017, 11:40:02 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 14, 2017, 11:04:39 AM
Now, can we get gun control?

You have gun control.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: derspiess on June 14, 2017, 11:40:39 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 14, 2017, 10:53:53 AM
Workplace violence?  Yup.

Don't make me roll back the tape.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: 11B4V on June 14, 2017, 11:50:12 AM
Even the left wingers are arming themselves nowadays. Who would have thought.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 14, 2017, 11:53:17 AM
Quote from: derspiess on June 14, 2017, 11:40:39 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 14, 2017, 10:53:53 AM
Workplace violence?  Yup.

Don't make me roll back the tape.

White anxiety is a religion of peace.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 14, 2017, 11:58:51 AM
White men with guns have cause more death and destruction than any other demographic group.  Need a travel ban until we can figure out what is going on.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on June 14, 2017, 12:00:32 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 14, 2017, 11:58:51 AM
White men with guns have cause more death and destruction than any other demographic group.  Need a travel ban until we can figure out what is going on.

Well we are mostly fucking insane. But besides that we are lovely.

I hope that clarifies things.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 14, 2017, 12:05:35 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 14, 2017, 11:58:51 AM
White men with guns have cause more death and destruction than any other demographic group.  Need a travel ban until we can figure out what is going on.

No, no, no...just on the left, like back in the 70's with Obama's buddy, you know, that guy from the Weather Channel.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: viper37 on June 14, 2017, 12:13:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 14, 2017, 11:15:37 AM
Never going to happen. The Supreme Court has spoken.
didn't the Supreme Court said it was up to the States to rule on the matter, and not the Federal gov?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on June 14, 2017, 12:20:45 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 14, 2017, 12:13:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 14, 2017, 11:15:37 AM
Never going to happen. The Supreme Court has spoken.
didn't the Supreme Court said it was up to the States to rule on the matter, and not the Federal gov?

I thought McDonald v. Chicago said gun ownership was a federally protected right and thus cannot be infringed upon by local governments.

At that point I regarded the gun control debate settled.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 14, 2017, 01:50:33 PM
The Court ruled that it is a personal right, incorporated against the states and localities, but subject to reasonable regulation that does not unduly burden the right to bear and use arms for "typical . . . lawful purposes".

That still leaves a lot of play re the scope of regulation.  For example, in Heller, the Court (Scalia) cited approvingly to regulations including: bans on sawed-off shotguns, bans on fully automatic weapons, prohibitions on concealed weapons, laws forbidding arms in "sensitive places" (like schools and government buildings), or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms, and prohibitions on possessions by felons and the mentally ill.  Scalia also made it clear that these examples were illustrative, not exhaustive, i.e. there could be many other potentially lawful regulations.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 14, 2017, 04:07:14 PM
Adding on, I think the SC said in Chicago that the statute was overly broad, i.e. a total ban on handguns, not that any regulation of gun ownership was totally unconstitutional.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: 11B4V on June 14, 2017, 11:12:27 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 14, 2017, 11:16:05 AM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on June 14, 2017, 11:10:32 AM
Way I see it, there are three possibilities:

1) Extreme unluckiness. This dude was looking to shoot up a bunch of people, and he happened on the field that just happened to have a bunch of congressmen on it. Wrong place, wrong time.

2) Stalker. This guy was looking for a particular congressman (maybe Scalise, maybe someone else) and had scoped out that they were likely to be at this game at this time. Support is that the shooter just happened to hit the only one there who was part of congressional leadership.

3) If Scalise hadn't brought his own security, you'd be looking at 20-30 congressmen without protection. For somebody looking to do as much damage as possible to the House, that would have been basically the perfect soft target.

My money's on 3, and I suspect we'll find some kind of manifesto after some digging.

Seems like a Bernie supporter trying to take out the bad guys. I really hope that is not the case though.

It's going to get worse.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: derspiess on June 15, 2017, 09:05:05 AM
Seems like Bernie Bros are a little more prone to violence than Hillary supporters.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Grey Fox on June 15, 2017, 09:38:35 AM
Just like Trump bros, right?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: derspiess on June 15, 2017, 11:32:29 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 15, 2017, 09:38:35 AM
Just like Trump bros, right?

Not quite.  Unless they have been gunning down congressmen and I wasn't aware of it.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Grey Fox on June 15, 2017, 11:33:06 AM
Not aware either

but still prone to violence.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: derspiess on June 15, 2017, 12:30:15 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 15, 2017, 11:33:06 AM
Not aware either

but still prone to violence.

When compared to Hillary supporters, I'd agree.  I guess in my original post, I was thinking specifically about groups affected by TDS.  Should have stated that.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 15, 2017, 12:38:38 PM
Only the Bernie supporters from Illinois are a problem. 
Or maybe it's the AARP card that sets them off?
Or maybe one incident doesn't establish statistical significance?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on June 15, 2017, 12:52:58 PM
Quote from: derspiess on June 15, 2017, 12:30:15 PM
When compared to Hillary supporters, I'd agree.  I guess in my original post, I was thinking specifically about groups affected by TDS.  Should have stated that.

Hillary supporters are stooges of the system so we remember that there will be other elections in the future. Having the Republicans elect even shittier leaders than we usually elect might help our chances. Shooting them could only ruin that.

But seriously it looks like Scalise is in bigger danger than I thought. I am not quite hand wringing yet but...
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Razgovory on June 15, 2017, 04:31:18 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 15, 2017, 12:38:38 PM
Only the Bernie supporters from Illinois are a problem. 
Or maybe it's the AARP card that sets them off?
Or maybe one incident doesn't establish statistical significance?

Derspeiss is thinking of the Alt-right guy who hated Clinton so much he voted for Sanders.  There does seem to be a connection between people who hated Clinton and people who are willing to kill.  It's almost as if people spent decades indoctrinating people to hate Clinton and the result was unstable people acting out that indoctrination if violent ways.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: frunk on June 15, 2017, 04:34:16 PM
Milquetoast Centrists aren't going to inspire extremism in their followers.  Is this a surprise?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: derspiess on June 15, 2017, 06:16:27 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 15, 2017, 12:38:38 PM
Only the Bernie supporters from Illinois are a problem. 
Or maybe it's the AARP card that sets them off?
Or maybe one incident doesn't establish statistical significance?

Maybe not.  But remember this?  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/06/05/bernie-sanders-tells-supporters-to-knock-off-the-violence
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 15, 2017, 06:18:15 PM
I seem to recall another candidate in that election cycle with a similar problem. 
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on June 15, 2017, 06:21:53 PM
Quote from: frunk on June 15, 2017, 04:34:16 PM
Milquetoast Centrists aren't going to inspire extremism in their followers.  Is this a surprise?

We stopped doing that after 1848.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 15, 2017, 07:11:19 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 15, 2017, 06:18:15 PM
I seem to recall another candidate in that election cycle with a similar problem.

Thing is, Trump didn't tell anybody to knock off the violence. He offered to pay legal fees.

Derniggerhater doesn't count Trump exhorting his supporters to shoot Hillary Clinton, either. Because cunts.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 20, 2017, 09:01:55 AM
 On a watch list but still with a gun permit. :frusty:
Gun permit actually renewed in 2017.  :frusty:
What we have here is a failure to communicate, French civil servant-style.

I was in the area so I noticed agitation but I only had to take the métro instead of the bus, so almost nothing in terms of consequences.
Man has been identified as A. Djaziri but the report has not been update yet.

QuoteWeapons cache found at home of Champs-Élysées attacker


Text by FRANCE 24 
Latest update : 2017-06-20

A man killed while ramming a car loaded with guns and a gas canister into a police van on Paris's Champs-Élysées stored a cache of weapons at his home and had a gun permit, French officials revealed on Tuesday.

The man, who has yet to be identified by French prosecutors, held the gun permit despite being on a secret service list of people linked to radical Islam.

A judicial source said investigators were compiling an inventory of the arms and equipment found in the 31-year-old's home. His vehicle also contained an assault rifle, two pistols, ammunition and two large gas canisters when he rammed it into a police convoy on Monday.

The revelation of the discovery came after Prime Minister Édouard Philippe expressed dismay that the attacker was able to have a gun permit despite being on a jihadist watchlist.

Philippe said the individual first received a permit to possess a gun before he was flagged to intelligence agencies as a potential militant threat. At the time there was no reason to deny him the permit, Philippe said.

He noted that it was "quite possible" the licence was active at the time the attacker was on a security database. Three sources close to the investigation told the AFP news agency it was.

"Nobody can be happy, and certainly not me, that someone who has been flagged to security agencies can continue to benefit from such an authorisation," Philippe told BFM TV.

The man was placed on France's so called "Fiche S" watchlist after he was found to belong to a radical Islamist movement, two police sources said.

Individuals on the list are placed under surveillance though the intensity of that surveillance varies depending on the perceived threat the individual poses.


edit: for another dumbfounding information
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Liep on June 20, 2017, 03:13:34 PM
QuoteMan shot in Brussels rail station amid bomb belt claims

A man has triggered a small explosion in Brussels Central Station, a spokesman for the Belgian federal police told the BBC.
The man was shot by soldiers inside the station and no-one else is believed to have been injured.
Police say the situation is under control. The station and the city's Grand Place were evacuated.
In March 2016, 32 people died in attacks on Brussels claimed by the Islamic State (IS) group.
According to Belgian newspaper La Libre, quoting prosecutors, the man who was shot was wearing a rucksack and a bomb belt.
He detonated a device when he attracted the attention of soldiers in the station, the paper says.
Brussels Central Station is one of three main terminals in the city.

Excellent if they got him before anyone was injured, but still frighteningly late in the terrorist's process.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Malthus on June 20, 2017, 04:24:10 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 20, 2017, 09:01:55 AM
On a watch list but still with a gun permit. :frusty:
Gun permit actually renewed in 2017.  :frusty:
What we have here is a failure to communicate, French civil servant-style.



Are individuals on the watch list informed that they are on the watch list?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 20, 2017, 04:39:44 PM
I didn't find out I was on the watch list after 9/11 until I found out at the airport that I was on the watch list.  So convenient, right there at the ticket counter and everything :yeah:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Barrister on June 20, 2017, 04:42:25 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 20, 2017, 04:39:44 PM
I didn't find out I was on the watch list after 9/11 until I found out at the airport that I was on the watch list.  So convenient, right there at the ticket counter and everything :yeah:

How did you get on the watch list??? :hmm:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on June 20, 2017, 04:44:10 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 20, 2017, 04:42:25 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 20, 2017, 04:39:44 PM
I didn't find out I was on the watch list after 9/11 until I found out at the airport that I was on the watch list.  So convenient, right there at the ticket counter and everything :yeah:

How did you get on the watch list??? :hmm:

Being 'here' has consequences.  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 20, 2017, 04:46:32 PM
Prottie RUC asshole sympathizers, that's who.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Tamas on June 20, 2017, 04:46:49 PM
Quote from: Liep on June 20, 2017, 03:13:34 PM
QuoteMan shot in Brussels rail station amid bomb belt claims

A man has triggered a small explosion in Brussels Central Station, a spokesman for the Belgian federal police told the BBC.
The man was shot by soldiers inside the station and no-one else is believed to have been injured.
Police say the situation is under control. The station and the city's Grand Place were evacuated.
In March 2016, 32 people died in attacks on Brussels claimed by the Islamic State (IS) group.
According to Belgian newspaper La Libre, quoting prosecutors, the man who was shot was wearing a rucksack and a bomb belt.
He detonated a device when he attracted the attention of soldiers in the station, the paper says.
Brussels Central Station is one of three main terminals in the city.

Excellent if they got him before anyone was injured, but still frighteningly late in the terrorist's process.

I was waiting and dreading when would these idiots discover train stations for themselves. :(

The big London train stations seem like scarily easy targets: massive crowds especially during rush hour, sometimes even in very confined spaces, absolutely no security whatsoever*

*I guess there is some. I was at Victoria during the weekend and the loud speaker told whoever left a bike with a big bag on it next to a shop should come and grab it because its being taken away to be destroyed. But still if that was an actual bomb what could they have done to prevent dozens of deaths?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 21, 2017, 07:52:56 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 20, 2017, 04:24:10 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 20, 2017, 09:01:55 AM
On a watch list but still with a gun permit. :frusty:
Gun permit actually renewed in 2017.  :frusty:
What we have here is a failure to communicate, French civil servant-style.



Are individuals on the watch list informed that they are on the watch list?

Nope, at least they are not supposed to be.
This is the argument some people used to explain why his gun permit was renewed. I am still not convinced by its pertinence though.

PS: of course, if they are prosecuted later, the watchlist presence will be used by the prosecution during the trial but that's another matter.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Malthus on June 21, 2017, 09:21:56 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 21, 2017, 07:52:56 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 20, 2017, 04:24:10 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 20, 2017, 09:01:55 AM
On a watch list but still with a gun permit. :frusty:
Gun permit actually renewed in 2017.  :frusty:
What we have here is a failure to communicate, French civil servant-style.



Are individuals on the watch list informed that they are on the watch list?

Nope, at least they are not supposed to be.
This is the argument some people used to explain why his gun permit was renewed. I am still not convinced by its pertinence though.

PS: of course, if they are prosecuted later, the watchlist presence will be used by the prosecution during the trial but that's another matter.

Depends on which is more important for public security:

1. Taking away his legal gun permit; or

2. Risk informing him that he's being 'watched' (since refusal to make what would otherwise be a routine renewal would, to a person of ordinary intelligence, suggest that the authorities were on to him).

I myself don't know which is more important, but I can see a potential argument there.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Ed Anger on June 21, 2017, 07:24:18 PM
Time to build that wall on the northern border.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: derspiess on June 22, 2017, 09:37:00 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 20, 2017, 04:46:32 PM
Prottie RUC asshole sympathizers, that's who.

:lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on June 22, 2017, 09:45:44 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 21, 2017, 09:21:56 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 21, 2017, 07:52:56 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 20, 2017, 04:24:10 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on June 20, 2017, 09:01:55 AM
On a watch list but still with a gun permit. :frusty:
Gun permit actually renewed in 2017.  :frusty:
What we have here is a failure to communicate, French civil servant-style.



Are individuals on the watch list informed that they are on the watch list?

Nope, at least they are not supposed to be.
This is the argument some people used to explain why his gun permit was renewed. I am still not convinced by its pertinence though.

PS: of course, if they are prosecuted later, the watchlist presence will be used by the prosecution during the trial but that's another matter.

Depends on which is more important for public security:

1. Taking away his legal gun permit; or

2. Risk informing him that he's being 'watched' (since refusal to make what would otherwise be a routine renewal would, to a person of ordinary intelligence, suggest that the authorities were on to him).

I myself don't know which is more important, but I can see a potential argument there.

Also depends on exactly why he was on a watch list.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 22, 2017, 10:17:55 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 22, 2017, 09:45:44 AM


Also depends on exactly why he was on a watch list.

He was there for islamist radical potential.
Reported in 2013 by Interpol on behalf by Tunisia for the first time. Then put on the islamist watchlist in 2015 for his links with salafists and travels to Syria. Not enough elements to open an investigation on him though.
After being convoked by French counter-terrorism services for the third time (first two he did not attend) he told he would surrender and instead crashed into a gendarmerie van.
One hypothesis is he rushed his attack since he knew he was under watch.

French link
http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/societe/fait-divers/champs-elysees-se-sachant-surveille-adam-djaziri-a-t-il-precipite-son-attaque_1920021.html (http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/societe/fait-divers/champs-elysees-se-sachant-surveille-adam-djaziri-a-t-il-precipite-son-attaque_1920021.html)
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on July 07, 2017, 08:23:18 AM
So when the IS is 'defeated' in Iraq and Syria and some of its nutter supporters carry out a few retaliatory terrorist outrages in the West, can 'we' not flip out over the consequences and not give them the "oxygen of publicity" that they crave?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 28, 2017, 01:34:14 PM
knife-attack in Hamburg: one fatality, several wounded. Attacked caught. Unknown if it's terror coming from the regular suppliers.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: derspiess on July 28, 2017, 01:35:38 PM
He apparently yelled "Aloha Snackbar" as he attacked.  So probably Amish.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on July 28, 2017, 01:38:03 PM
Knife attacks eh? And people say gun control doesn't keep guns out of the hands of terrorists.

Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Brain on July 29, 2017, 10:32:37 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2017, 01:38:03 PM
Knife attacks eh? And people say gun control doesn't keep guns out of the hands of terrorists.

In Europe they hold the knife in the right hand, making knife attacks more danegerous than in the US.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Maximus on July 29, 2017, 11:13:03 AM
Quote from: The Brain on July 29, 2017, 10:32:37 AMdanegerous
:hmm:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Brain on July 29, 2017, 11:15:36 AM
English isn't my first language.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Tamas on July 29, 2017, 11:22:03 AM
It was a guy who was refused asylum. How can you decline a person to stay in your country and then let him roam freely in it? Makes no sense.

Also, I wonder if he is some kind of criminal or something in his home country - maybe it just made sense to go to prison in Germany than there.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Zanza on July 29, 2017, 11:44:51 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 29, 2017, 11:22:03 AM
It was a guy who was refused asylum. How can you decline a person to stay in your country and then let him roam freely in it? Makes no sense.
How would you handle a declined asylum request where deportation is not possible because the person has no papers?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 29, 2017, 12:29:37 PM
Quote from: Tamas on July 29, 2017, 11:22:03 AM
It was a guy who was refused asylum. How can you decline a person to stay in your country and then let him roam freely in it? Makes no sense.

Also, I wonder if he is some kind of criminal or something in his home country - maybe it just made sense to go to prison in Germany than there.

or maybe he actually believed he had to kill for his god?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: LaCroix on July 29, 2017, 12:32:26 PM
must not be many believers then
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 29, 2017, 02:23:57 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 29, 2017, 11:15:36 AM
English isn't my first language.

:yeahright:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Tonitrus on July 29, 2017, 03:41:32 PM
Quote from: Zanza on July 29, 2017, 11:44:51 AM
Quote from: Tamas on July 29, 2017, 11:22:03 AM
It was a guy who was refused asylum. How can you decline a person to stay in your country and then let him roam freely in it? Makes no sense.
How would you handle a declined asylum request where deportation is not possible because the person has no papers?

Something like how Lao Che deported Indian Jones from China.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Brain on July 29, 2017, 05:09:08 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 29, 2017, 02:23:57 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 29, 2017, 11:15:36 AM
English isn't my first language.

:yeahright:

Bork bork bork.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Brain on August 09, 2017, 04:05:03 AM
French soldiers attacked by a car.

Car was a BMW... Hmm I sense a young male driver from the Middle East.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Josquius on August 09, 2017, 06:27:24 AM
If they'd had guns they would have been able to defend themselves. Europe fails again.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 09, 2017, 06:46:44 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 09, 2017, 04:05:03 AM
French soldiers attacked by a car.

Car was a BMW... Hmm I sense a young male driver from the Middle East.

I am sure the young male driver from the Middle East was mentally unstable so it has nothing to do with the religion of peace.
Like the previous aborted attack near the Eiffel Tower when a mental institution user tried to enter with a knife and shouting Allahu Akbar when pulling the knife .

PS: Levallois for the BMW attack? Once again I am close to the action.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Syt on August 09, 2017, 08:17:53 AM
Levallois-Perret? That's where my old company has (had?) their Paris office. And I recall it being the hotel location of our 2007 Languish meet there.

It's been 10 years, hasn't it?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 09, 2017, 09:43:02 AM
Yep. Tempus fugit.  :(

PS: Suspect was caught in Northern France (Pas-de-Calais), wounded after a gunfight with the police.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on August 09, 2017, 09:52:50 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on August 09, 2017, 09:43:02 AM
Yep. Tempus fugit.  :(

PS: Suspect was caught in Northern France (Pas-de-Calais), wounded after a gunfight with the police.

:cool:

Good work.  :frog:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: viper37 on August 09, 2017, 09:56:17 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on August 09, 2017, 06:46:44 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 09, 2017, 04:05:03 AM
French soldiers attacked by a car.

Car was a BMW... Hmm I sense a young male driver from the Middle East.

I am sure the young male driver from the Middle East was mentally unstable so it has nothing to do with the religion of peace.
Like the previous aborted attack near the Eiffel Tower when a mental institution user tried to enter with a knife and shouting Allahu Akbar when pulling the knife .
There's not much difference between the Christian mentally insane who shoots people in a theater or kids in a kindergarden and the mentally insane who run into a crowd with his vehicle in the name of Allah.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 09, 2017, 09:59:29 AM
Except there's a lot more people willing to encourage the jihadi in his insanity.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: viper37 on August 09, 2017, 12:19:57 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 09, 2017, 09:59:29 AM
Except there's a lot more people willing to encourage the jihadi in his insanity.
You sure?  A lot of people in your country really wants to give the mentally insane equal access to guns.  It's as if they'd want such disaster to happen.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: derspiess on August 09, 2017, 12:26:49 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 09, 2017, 12:19:57 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 09, 2017, 09:59:29 AM
Except there's a lot more people willing to encourage the jihadi in his insanity.
You sure?  A lot of people in your country really wants to give the mentally insane equal access to guns.  It's as if they'd want such disaster to happen.

You are full of false premises today.  Who wants to give guns to insane people?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on August 09, 2017, 12:30:31 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 09, 2017, 12:26:49 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 09, 2017, 12:19:57 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 09, 2017, 09:59:29 AM
Except there's a lot more people willing to encourage the jihadi in his insanity.
You sure?  A lot of people in your country really wants to give the mentally insane equal access to guns.  It's as if they'd want such disaster to happen.

You are full of false premises today.  Who wants to give guns to insane people?

Gun nuts
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: viper37 on August 09, 2017, 03:01:31 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 09, 2017, 12:26:49 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 09, 2017, 12:19:57 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 09, 2017, 09:59:29 AM
Except there's a lot more people willing to encourage the jihadi in his insanity.
You sure?  A lot of people in your country really wants to give the mentally insane equal access to guns.  It's as if they'd want such disaster to happen.

You are full of false premises today.  Who wants to give guns to insane people?
what kind of restrictions are you favor of, when it comes times to buy a gun/rifle? It seems the NRA and the Republicans do not want any kind of restrictions, and that includes mental health check.  Are people with existing mental health problems barred from buying a gun in most US States?  Would you be in favour of such a measure at the Federal level, to prohibit sales of arms to people who might be depressed?  Removing guns from people with mental health issues as determined by a doctor, just like you would remove a driver's license to someone who becomes blind or epileptic?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: dps on August 09, 2017, 04:25:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 09, 2017, 12:30:31 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 09, 2017, 12:26:49 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 09, 2017, 12:19:57 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 09, 2017, 09:59:29 AM
Except there's a lot more people willing to encourage the jihadi in his insanity.
You sure?  A lot of people in your country really wants to give the mentally insane equal access to guns.  It's as if they'd want such disaster to happen.

You are full of false premises today.  Who wants to give guns to insane people?

Gun nuts

Sell 'em guns, maybe, but give 'em guns?  Sounds like socialism to me.




;)
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on August 09, 2017, 04:30:29 PM
Christian charity -_-
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 10, 2017, 05:40:29 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 09, 2017, 04:05:03 AM
French soldiers attacked by a car.

Car was a BMW... Hmm I sense a young male driver from the Middle East.


Hmm. Close. In Anglo common parlance you would be right, but the "driver" was North African, Algerian to be precise.
Was he whitewashed by the French media?  They did not say he was black.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Josquius on August 12, 2017, 04:29:18 PM
Another car attack. Virginia this time.

Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on August 12, 2017, 04:48:16 PM
Quote from: Tyr on August 12, 2017, 04:29:18 PM
Another car attack. Virginia this time.

Good spot/classification.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on August 12, 2017, 04:53:00 PM
Decontexualizing events is great.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Jacob on August 12, 2017, 05:27:28 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 12, 2017, 04:53:00 PM
Decontexualizing events is great.

I think classifying white supremacist and neo nazi terror attacks as terror attacks is legitimate.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on August 12, 2017, 05:35:30 PM
Of course.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Razgovory on August 12, 2017, 06:54:12 PM
*Derspeiss*  "Probably Amish"
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 12, 2017, 07:13:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 12, 2017, 06:54:12 PM
*Derspeiss*  "Probably Amish"

*Trump*  "Both the racists and the nigger lovers need to stop this violence"
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: FunkMonk on August 12, 2017, 08:35:30 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 12, 2017, 07:13:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 12, 2017, 06:54:12 PM
*Derspeiss*  "Probably Amish"

*Trump*  "Both the racists and the nigger lovers need to stop this violence"

Donald is so weak-willed he can't even condemn actual Nazis because he's afraid to lose their vote.  :Embarrass:

Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on August 13, 2017, 04:05:04 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 12, 2017, 07:13:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 12, 2017, 06:54:12 PM
*Derspeiss*  "Probably Amish"

*Trump*  "Both the racists and the nigger lovers need to stop this violence"

I hate him so much.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Josquius on August 13, 2017, 05:54:59 AM
Satire, but, yeah...

http://newsthump.com/2017/08/13/driving-a-car-into-people-you-hate-only-terrorism-if-driver-is-brown-confirms-us-media/
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Savonarola on August 13, 2017, 06:13:37 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 13, 2017, 05:54:59 AM
Satire, but, yeah...

http://newsthump.com/2017/08/13/driving-a-car-into-people-you-hate-only-terrorism-if-driver-is-brown-confirms-us-media/

???

CNN.com described this as terrorism in it's headline yesterday (today it's using the term "Terror.")

A quick scan in Google shows news services as diverse as Vice, The Washington Examiner, NPR, Fox News, ABC, Salon, Slate, and the Boston Herald all use the term "Terror" or "Terrorism" in their articles about this attack.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Liep on August 13, 2017, 06:26:35 AM
No one in Danish media is calling it terrorism or terror, but of course they're busy with the submarine murder mystery.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on August 13, 2017, 06:29:27 AM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 13, 2017, 06:13:37 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 13, 2017, 05:54:59 AM
Satire, but, yeah...

http://newsthump.com/2017/08/13/driving-a-car-into-people-you-hate-only-terrorism-if-driver-is-brown-confirms-us-media/

???

CNN.com described this as terrorism in it's headline yesterday (today it's using the term "Terror.")

A quick scan in Google shows news services as diverse as Vice, The Washington Examiner, NPR, Fox News, ABC, Salon, Slate, and the Boston Herald all use the term "Terror" or "Terrorism" in their articles about this attack.

So what, as Garbon seems to disagree.  :P
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 13, 2017, 09:17:12 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 13, 2017, 04:05:04 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 12, 2017, 07:13:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 12, 2017, 06:54:12 PM
*Derspeiss*  "Probably Amish"

*Trump*  "Both the racists and the nigger lovers need to stop this violence"

I hate him so much.

I told you, you were safer where you are.  Don't come back, there's nothing for you here.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on August 13, 2017, 09:24:51 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 13, 2017, 09:17:12 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 13, 2017, 04:05:04 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 12, 2017, 07:13:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 12, 2017, 06:54:12 PM
*Derspeiss*  "Probably Amish"

*Trump*  "Both the racists and the nigger lovers need to stop this violence"

I hate him so much.

I told you, you were safer where you are.  Don't come back, there's nothing for you here.

Then we better find me a husband. Otherwise, there's a ticking clock on my stay.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 13, 2017, 10:46:26 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 13, 2017, 09:24:51 AM
Then we better find me a husband. Otherwise, there's a ticking clock on my stay.

Then I guess it's time to stop playing hard-to-get, Sugar Tits.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on August 13, 2017, 11:34:11 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 13, 2017, 10:46:26 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 13, 2017, 09:24:51 AM
Then we better find me a husband. Otherwise, there's a ticking clock on my stay.

Then I guess it's time to stop playing hard-to-get, Sugar Tits.


Well they need to also have cash...
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Jacob on August 13, 2017, 11:44:59 AM
garbs I don't know how to say this delicately so I'll just blurt it out... aren't you getting old enough and make enough money that you ought to be the sugar daddy rather than the boy toy?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on August 13, 2017, 12:01:01 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 13, 2017, 11:44:59 AM
garbs I don't know how to say this delicately so I'll just blurt it out... aren't you getting old enough and make enough money that you ought to be the sugar daddy rather than the boy toy?

Oh I don't need him to buy me things but I also don't want to be buying him things. An equitable arrangement?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: viper37 on August 13, 2017, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 13, 2017, 12:01:01 PM
An equitable arrangement?
how straight of you.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on August 13, 2017, 04:51:47 PM
Quote from: Savonarola on August 13, 2017, 06:13:37 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 13, 2017, 05:54:59 AM
Satire, but, yeah...

http://newsthump.com/2017/08/13/driving-a-car-into-people-you-hate-only-terrorism-if-driver-is-brown-confirms-us-media/

???

CNN.com described this as terrorism in it's headline yesterday (today it's using the term "Terror.")

A quick scan in Google shows news services as diverse as Vice, The Washington Examiner, NPR, Fox News, ABC, Salon, Slate, and the Boston Herald all use the term "Terror" or "Terrorism" in their articles about this attack.

Satire doesn't need to actually be making fun of real stuff to work. It can also make you laugh by reinforcing your biases and stereotypes.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 14, 2017, 05:00:12 AM
Not minor actually

http://www.france24.com/en/20170814-suspected-jihadists-attack-restaurant-burkina-faso (http://www.france24.com/en/20170814-suspected-jihadists-attack-restaurant-burkina-faso)

Quote
Text by FRANCE 24 
Latest update : 2017-08-14
Suspected Islamic extremists opened fire at a Turkish restaurant in the capital of Burkina Faso late Sunday, killing at least 18 people in the second such attack on a restaurant popular with foreigners in the last two years.

The assault by security forces ended at around 5:00am GMT and the district is secure, Communications Minister Rémi Dandjinou told FRANCE 24's sister radio station Radio France Internationale.

There was no immediate claim of responsibility for the violence, which continued into the early hours Monday. Gunfire could be heard almost seven hours after the attack began.

Dandjinou told journalists that at least 18 people were dead and eight others wounded, according to a provisional toll. He said two of the attackers were also killed.

The victims came from several different nationalities, he said. At least one of the dead was French.

Security forces arrived at the scene with armored vehicles after reports of shots fired near Aziz Istanbul, an upscale restaurant in Ouagadougou. The attack brought back painful memories of the January 2016 attack at another cafe that left 30 people dead.

Police Capt. Guy Ye said three or four assailants had arrived at the Aziz Istanbul restaurant on motorcycles, and then began shooting randomly at the crowds dining Sunday evening.

Burkina Faso, a landlocked nation in West Africa, is one of the poorest countries in the world. It shares a northern border with Mali, which has long battled Islamic extremists.

The three attackers in the 2016 massacre were of foreign origin, according to al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, which claimed responsibility in the aftermath along with the jihadist group known as Al Mourabitoun. But the terror threat in Burkina Faso is increasingly homegrown, experts say.

The northern border region is now the home of a local preacher, Ibrahim Malam Dicko, who has claimed recent deadly attacks against troops and civilians. His association, Ansarul Islam, is now considered a terrorist group by Burkina Faso's government.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Brain on August 14, 2017, 05:39:06 AM
Dicko too boko haram.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on August 14, 2017, 04:13:24 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 13, 2017, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 13, 2017, 12:01:01 PM
An equitable arrangement?
how straight of you.

:huh:

Having one partner take care of the other is the more hetero course. :contract:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: viper37 on August 15, 2017, 08:15:01 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 14, 2017, 04:13:24 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 13, 2017, 02:34:11 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 13, 2017, 12:01:01 PM
An equitable arrangement?
how straight of you.

:huh:

Having one partner take care of the other is the more hetero course. :contract:
that might have been true 50 years ago, but not today.  Except for the very rich with trophy wives.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 10:51:50 AM
Now its Barcelona: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/17/van-crashes-into-crowd-of-people-barcelona-las-ramblas

No deaths luckily, but it seems the driver fled on foot.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: celedhring on August 17, 2017, 10:56:50 AM
There are two rumored deaths - and a possible hostage situation in a Turkish restaurant. So it's not over...

Our first large terror attack in 30 years.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 11:00:41 AM
 :(

Any chance of this coming from an uncultured European background, or against all odds, it is the religion of peace striking?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Solmyr on August 17, 2017, 11:08:18 AM
Quote from: celedhring on August 17, 2017, 10:56:50 AM
There are two rumored deaths - and a possible hostage situation in a Turkish restaurant. So it's not over...

Our first large terror attack in 30 years.

I thought the 2004 Madrid bombing was large.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: celedhring on August 17, 2017, 11:08:57 AM
"Our" as in Barcelona. Last was ETA bombing in Hipercor in 1987.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: celedhring on August 17, 2017, 11:10:11 AM
I'm expecting a high death toll btw. That place, at this time of the day and year, is *packed* with people.  :(

Heck, I was there this morning.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 11:43:32 AM
Well at least you will have the Eifel tower in Spanish colours tonight! That will be sufficient replacement to any action to address this larger issue.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: celedhring on August 17, 2017, 11:46:17 AM
Spanish passport found in the van, belonging to a citizen from Melilla (so ethnically arab, but a Spanish national).
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on August 17, 2017, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 11:43:32 AM
Well at least you will have the Eifel tower in Spanish colours tonight! That will be sufficient replacement to any action to address this larger issue.

You are being terrible again.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 11:49:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 17, 2017, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 11:43:32 AM
Well at least you will have the Eifel tower in Spanish colours tonight! That will be sufficient replacement to any action to address this larger issue.

You are being terrible again.

I know.

But, we stand together, and the terrorists will not break the spirit of Barcelona!

Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 11:53:45 AM
13 deads reported at the moment. :(


Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 17, 2017, 11:54:30 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 17, 2017, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 11:43:32 AM
Well at least you will have the Eifel tower in Spanish colours tonight! That will be sufficient replacement to any action to address this larger issue.

You are being terrible again.

Real Madrid fans usually are.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 11:57:47 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 17, 2017, 11:54:30 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 17, 2017, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 11:43:32 AM
Well at least you will have the Eifel tower in Spanish colours tonight! That will be sufficient replacement to any action to address this larger issue.

You are being terrible again.

Real Madrid fans usually are.

Ok NOW I am insulted. Real Madrid is the most despicable football club on the planet.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on August 17, 2017, 11:59:16 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 11:49:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 17, 2017, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 11:43:32 AM
Well at least you will have the Eifel tower in Spanish colours tonight! That will be sufficient replacement to any action to address this larger issue.

You are being terrible again.

I know.

But, we stand together, and the terrorists will not break the spirit of Barcelona!



Hard on muslims, soft on nazis. :hmm:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 12:00:21 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 17, 2017, 11:59:16 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 11:49:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 17, 2017, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 11:43:32 AM
Well at least you will have the Eifel tower in Spanish colours tonight! That will be sufficient replacement to any action to address this larger issue.

You are being terrible again.

I know.

But, we stand together, and the terrorists will not break the spirit of Barcelona!



Hard on muslims, soft on nazis. :hmm:

Soft on nazis? that's what you have taken from all that discussion? It was very much wasted on you then.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on August 17, 2017, 12:07:11 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 12:00:21 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 17, 2017, 11:59:16 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 11:49:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 17, 2017, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 11:43:32 AM
Well at least you will have the Eifel tower in Spanish colours tonight! That will be sufficient replacement to any action to address this larger issue.

You are being terrible again.

I know.

But, we stand together, and the terrorists will not break the spirit of Barcelona!



Hard on muslims, soft on nazis. :hmm:

Soft on nazis? that's what you have taken from all that discussion? It was very much wasted on you then.


No, but your bigotry is rising again.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Jacob on August 17, 2017, 12:13:45 PM
Hey Tamas - it's generally considered decent to leave the political posturing at least until the incident has finished.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 17, 2017, 12:18:49 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 17, 2017, 12:13:45 PM
Hey Tamas - it's generally considered decent to leave the political posturing at least until the incident has finished.

That's so 2005.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on August 17, 2017, 12:38:08 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 17, 2017, 12:13:45 PM
Hey Tamas - it's generally considered decent to leave the political posturing at least until the incident has finished.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: sbr on August 17, 2017, 01:05:45 PM
Haven't you all known reach other for  like 20 years? Why are you still surprised when the terrible people continue to say terrible things?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: celedhring on August 17, 2017, 01:10:27 PM
1 attacker arrested, 2 remain at large.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Jacob on August 17, 2017, 01:12:22 PM
Quote from: sbr on August 17, 2017, 01:05:45 PM
Haven't you all known reach other for  like 20 years? Why are you still surprised when the terrible people continue to say terrible things?

I don't think anyone's particularly surprised. It's more like the bickering of an old couple that doesn't even like each other that much but are too used to be together to break up.

The languish way: habitual and mutually annoying.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: celedhring on August 17, 2017, 01:30:37 PM
Unofficial sources claim there's been a firefight and another of the attackers has been shot down.

It's from the regional telly and they are usually pretty reliable with this kind of stuff (not so much in others...)

Official toll is 13 death and 50+ wounded, some of them very serious.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Syt on August 17, 2017, 01:33:35 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 17, 2017, 01:12:22 PM
Quote from: sbr on August 17, 2017, 01:05:45 PM
Haven't you all known reach other for  like 20 years? Why are you still surprised when the terrible people continue to say terrible things?

I don't think anyone's particularly surprised. It's more like the bickering of an old couple that doesn't even like each other that much but are too used to be together to break up.

The languish way: habitual and mutually annoying.

It's why I abstain from most political debate here (beyond sharing news stories). Everyone's so entrenched that they're not going to change their minds at this point.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: garbon on August 17, 2017, 01:44:21 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 17, 2017, 01:33:35 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 17, 2017, 01:12:22 PM
Quote from: sbr on August 17, 2017, 01:05:45 PM
Haven't you all known reach other for  like 20 years? Why are you still surprised when the terrible people continue to say terrible things?

I don't think anyone's particularly surprised. It's more like the bickering of an old couple that doesn't even like each other that much but are too used to be together to break up.

The languish way: habitual and mutually annoying.

It's why I abstain from most political debate here (beyond sharing news stories). Everyone's so entrenched that they're not going to change their minds at this point.

I don't know. I moved for voting for Republican presidents to planning to never vote Republican again (bar some crazy shift in the party).
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 17, 2017, 01:51:05 PM
Quote from: celedhring on August 17, 2017, 01:30:37 PM
Unofficial sources claim there's been a firefight and another of the attackers has been shot down.

It's from the regional telly and they are usually pretty reliable with this kind of stuff (not so much in others...)

Official toll is 13 death and 50+ wounded, some of them very serious.

Any more info about the perpetrators? I read on la Repubblica one of them is a Moroccan young man born in Marseille, Driss Ukabir.

http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2017/08/17/news/driss_oukabir_sospetto_attentatore_barcellona_rambla-173255235/ (http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2017/08/17/news/driss_oukabir_sospetto_attentatore_barcellona_rambla-173255235/)

(https://www.repstatic.it/content/nazionale/img/2017/08/17/193119708-1aa94f1c-0da8-43e6-b4c2-ad01d25cb58d.jpg)
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: celedhring on August 17, 2017, 01:58:13 PM
He just seems to be an accessory, since he was arrested in the north of the country.

Spanish police isn't divulging much information regarding the investigation (understandably), so it's all really fuzzy atm.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on August 17, 2017, 02:19:45 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 17, 2017, 01:33:35 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 17, 2017, 01:12:22 PM
Quote from: sbr on August 17, 2017, 01:05:45 PM
Haven't you all known reach other for  like 20 years? Why are you still surprised when the terrible people continue to say terrible things?

I don't think anyone's particularly surprised. It's more like the bickering of an old couple that doesn't even like each other that much but are too used to be together to break up.

The languish way: habitual and mutually annoying.

It's why I abstain from most political debate here (beyond sharing news stories). Everyone's so entrenched that they're not going to change their minds at this point.

Actually my opinions have been pretty well shaped by this place :hmm:
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: The Brain on August 17, 2017, 02:21:33 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 17, 2017, 02:19:45 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 17, 2017, 01:33:35 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 17, 2017, 01:12:22 PM
Quote from: sbr on August 17, 2017, 01:05:45 PM
Haven't you all known reach other for  like 20 years? Why are you still surprised when the terrible people continue to say terrible things?

I don't think anyone's particularly surprised. It's more like the bickering of an old couple that doesn't even like each other that much but are too used to be together to break up.

The languish way: habitual and mutually annoying.

It's why I abstain from most political debate here (beyond sharing news stories). Everyone's so entrenched that they're not going to change their minds at this point.

Actually my opinions have been pretty well shaped by this place :hmm:

yw
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Pedrito on August 17, 2017, 03:06:04 PM
Quote from: celedhring on August 17, 2017, 01:30:37 PM
Unofficial sources claim there's been a firefight and another of the attackers has been shot down.

It's from the regional telly and they are usually pretty reliable with this kind of stuff (not so much in others...)

Official toll is 13 death and 50+ wounded, some of them very serious.
I just booked in Barcelona for some Holiday at the start of september   :(

L.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Valmy on August 17, 2017, 03:15:28 PM
I presume ISIS has already claimed responsibility?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 17, 2017, 03:39:17 PM
Yep.

Quote54m ago
21:44 CET
Islamic State claims responsibility

Islamic State has claimed responsibility for the Barcelona attack, the group's Amaq propaganda news agency said.

"The perpetrators of the Barcelona attack are soldiers of the Islamic State and carried out the operation in response to calls for targeting coalition states," the agency said, referring to a United States-led coalition against the Sunni militant group.

Isis claims of responsibility are unreliable, and do not necessarily indicate a direct connection between the attacker or attackers and the terror group.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/aug/17/barcelona-attack-van-driven-into-crowd-in-las-ramblas-district (https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/aug/17/barcelona-attack-van-driven-into-crowd-in-las-ramblas-district)
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: dps on August 17, 2017, 05:04:38 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 17, 2017, 11:59:16 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 11:49:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 17, 2017, 11:46:22 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 11:43:32 AM
Well at least you will have the Eifel tower in Spanish colours tonight! That will be sufficient replacement to any action to address this larger issue.

You are being terrible again.

I know.

But, we stand together, and the terrorists will not break the spirit of Barcelona!



Hard on muslims, soft on nazis. :hmm:

Uhm, actually during the SCW, Barcelona was the main stronghold of the Loyalists;  I don't see why you'd say they're soft on Nazis.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Jacob on August 17, 2017, 05:10:32 PM
Quote from: dps on August 17, 2017, 05:04:38 PM
Uhm, actually during the SCW, Barcelona was the main stronghold of the Loyalists;  I don't see why you'd say they're soft on Nazis.

I'm pretty sure garbon was talking about Tamas, not Barcelona.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: mongers on August 17, 2017, 05:36:00 PM
Whilst it was a good idea to have a thread for most terrorist attacks, I regret titling this on "Minor Acts of Terror"

Any objections to me retitling it "Acts of Terrorism Megathread" ?

Though obviously that leaves plenty of room to cover new, god forbid, 'spectacular' attacks with their own threads.

Will people be ok with finding it/searching for it?
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: grumbler on August 17, 2017, 07:02:08 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 11:53:45 AM
13 deads reported at the moment. :(

"deads"?  Class.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Iormlund on August 17, 2017, 07:27:34 PM
Regional police have apparently gunned down 5 terrorists at a coastal town a short ride south. 4 are dead.

It seems there was a major attack planned. It was thwarted yesterday morning, when an explosive device went off and killed one terrorist, leaving another one severely injured.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: viper37 on August 17, 2017, 07:59:12 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 17, 2017, 05:36:00 PM

Will people be ok with finding it/searching for it?
yeah, go for it. :)
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Tamas on August 18, 2017, 12:19:53 AM
Quote from: Jacob on August 17, 2017, 05:10:32 PM
Quote from: dps on August 17, 2017, 05:04:38 PM
Uhm, actually during the SCW, Barcelona was the main stronghold of the Loyalists;  I don't see why you'd say they're soft on Nazis.

I'm pretty sure garbon was talking about Tamas, not Barcelona.

Yes. I get pissed off, make an ill-advised comment,  and Moral Police Garbon quickly connects the dots between that and my reluctance for seeing streets patrolled by vigilant militias.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Tamas on August 18, 2017, 12:21:39 AM
Quote from: grumbler on August 17, 2017, 07:02:08 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 17, 2017, 11:53:45 AM
13 deads reported at the moment. :(

"deads"?  Class.

I'll see you when you can type in Hungarian without making a typo every once in a while.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Syt on August 18, 2017, 12:24:00 AM
Well, Trump was much faster reacting to this attack than to the one in Charlottesville, at least.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Tamas on August 18, 2017, 12:24:18 AM
Quote from: mongers on August 17, 2017, 05:36:00 PM
Whilst it was a good idea to have a thread for most terrorist attacks, I regret titling this on "Minor Acts of Terror"

Any objections to me retitling it "Acts of Terrorism Megathread" ?

Though obviously that leaves plenty of room to cover new, god forbid, 'spectacular' attacks with their own threads.

Will people be ok with finding it/searching for it?


This was my fault Mongers.

Initial report said no fatalities and some injured. I hoped that was true. :(

This was obviously not a minor act.

But then of course, maybe no terror attack should be labelled minor.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 18, 2017, 01:01:46 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 18, 2017, 12:24:00 AM
Well, Trump was much faster reacting to this attack than to the one in Charlottesville, at least.

Still waiting on his response to the mosque bombing in Minnesota last week, but I think we all know where he lands on that one.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Syt on August 18, 2017, 01:27:06 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 18, 2017, 01:01:46 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 18, 2017, 12:24:00 AM
Well, Trump was much faster reacting to this attack than to the one in Charlottesville, at least.

Still waiting on his response to the mosque bombing in Minnesota last week, but I think we all know where he lands on that one.

Well, some people seem to hope for Muslim attacks with high death tolls so they can say, "See? SEE???"
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on August 18, 2017, 01:33:13 AM
It looks like the Spanish cops may have preempted a second attack :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40971004
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Tamas on August 18, 2017, 02:09:03 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 18, 2017, 01:27:06 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 18, 2017, 01:01:46 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 18, 2017, 12:24:00 AM
Well, Trump was much faster reacting to this attack than to the one in Charlottesville, at least.

Still waiting on his response to the mosque bombing in Minnesota last week, but I think we all know where he lands on that one.

Well, some people seem to hope for Muslim attacks with high death tolls so they can say, "See? SEE???"

Definitely. Since the only argument the Hungarian government can make for its own continued existence is that, according to them, an endless horde of suicide terrorists would descend upon the country if anyone else was in power, any such attacks like yesterday prompt a disgusting response from pro-government media, where their loud horror and outrage can barely conceal their joy for having been supported another lifeline to hang onto.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: celedhring on August 18, 2017, 02:55:19 AM
By my count, there's now at least 10 arrested/killed related to the Barcelona attack. That certainly wasn't a lone wolf/small cell affair.
Title: Re: Minor Acts of Terror Megathread.
Post by: Syt on August 18, 2017, 03:23:11 AM
On the plus side, Spanish authorities have long experience with dealing with terrorist dickwads.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: celedhring on August 18, 2017, 05:07:29 AM
We've had loads of arrests these past years (nearly 200 arrested yihadis since 2009 IIRC), often close to carry attacks on Spanish soil, so the authorities were on alert. Problem is, and that's been said often, that sooner or later a cell would slip through.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 18, 2017, 06:44:21 AM
Goddamned Moops.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Iormlund on August 18, 2017, 07:00:02 AM
I'm curious as to why the Mossos decided against installing physical protection in the Ramblas last year. It's a relatively low cost solution. And speaking from experience the place is absolutely crowded the whole year long -- I spend most of my weekends and vacation here with the gf so I'm there every couple weeks or so (mostly to go eat at an Argentinian place past Drassanes).
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on August 18, 2017, 09:17:00 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 18, 2017, 01:01:46 AM
Quote from: Syt on August 18, 2017, 12:24:00 AM
Well, Trump was much faster reacting to this attack than to the one in Charlottesville, at least.

Still waiting on his response to the mosque bombing in Minnesota last week, but I think we all know where he lands on that one.
He needs time to think and answer properly he said.  It's just a coincidence if he thinks quicker when it concerns islamic terrorism.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on August 18, 2017, 09:42:52 AM
Looks like Finland was hit too, someone stabbing people in a crowd.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/18/europe/finland-stabbing/index.html
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 18, 2017, 10:31:07 AM
and in the meantime the EastFronters... er I mean, IS-scumbags are returning home too.
Antifa will have work to do.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Solmyr on August 18, 2017, 01:26:19 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 18, 2017, 09:42:52 AM
Looks like Finland was hit too, someone stabbing people in a crowd.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/18/europe/finland-stabbing/index.html

Yes. Incidentally, the attacker was chased down by immigrants while white Finns were digging up their cellphones to film the attack.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: celedhring on August 18, 2017, 06:33:54 PM
According to the regional police 12 terrorists have been identified. 5 dead, 4 arrested, 3 on the run.

There's also 2 unidentified corpses in a terrorist safe-house/explosive lab that exploded on their asses.

So this was a damn large operation. Apparently the plan was to produce explosives and set them off in tourist areas. Once the lab exploded, they acted immediately and settled for "just" running over people before the gig was up.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on August 18, 2017, 06:47:31 PM
so it could have been worse. that's sobering.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on August 19, 2017, 07:44:26 AM
The Finland attack was terrorism.

Quote

Finland killings: Knifeman 'targeted women in Turku terror attack'

Police in Finland say a knifeman who killed two people in the south-western city of Turku on Friday appeared to choose women as targets.

They are treating the attack as a terrorist incident.


The suspect, arrested after being shot by police, is an 18-year-old Moroccan. Four other Moroccans have been held.

The two people stabbed to death were both Finnish. Eight people were also injured, among them a Briton, a Swede and an Italian.

The ages of the casualties ranged from 15 to 67, police said, but gave no more details.

Unconfirmed reports say six of the wounded were women.

Police said in a statement: "The act had been investigated as murder, but during the night we received additional information which indicates that the criminal offences are now terrorist killings."

They said the identity of the 18-year-old Moroccan was known, but they have not released it.

At a later press briefing, they said the suspect had arrived in Finland in 2016 and had "been part of the asylum process".

In addition to the four other arrests, an international search warrant has been issued for a sixth suspect.

The 18-year-old Moroccan is still being treated in hospital for a gunshot wound to the leg. Two other people are also still in hospital.

The UK embassy in Finland said it had "been in touch with the British national and offered consular support".

The attack happened in the Puutori/Market Square area of Turku.

Police said the alarm was raised at 16:02 local time (13:02 GMT) on Friday, when a man was reported to have attacked passers-by with a knife.

....


Full item here:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40985528 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40985528)

Once again independent* women appear to have been targeted. :hmm:



*ie women out in the public realm, rather than being stuck at home or chaperoned.

Moroccans again, would this be an offshoot from the Spanish attacks or part of wave of attackers independently arrive from there?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on August 19, 2017, 10:38:53 AM
QuoteOnce again independent* women appear to have been targeted

Independent women must be terrifying to such dimwits.

I have been telling this since the 9/11 attackers turned out to be Saudis who studied in Germany: can you just imagine? You grow up in Saudi Arabia or some other similar 3rd world craphole, you are being taught that the sun is shining out of the collective asses of your countrymen, and treating women like cattle is the best thing that could happen to them. Then you go to Europe, and you see a society that does pretty much the exact opposite of what your own, and is thriving.

There are two possible conclusions to draw: your homeland sucks goat ass, or this is all the work of the devil and the infidels need to follow your homeland's example so your homeland can become a better place. Or you need that to happen so you can get laid.

Of course many of these people will refuse to believe that what he was groomed to believe was proper and just was just silly and oppressive.

You can totally see the mild version of it happening with East Europeans. Those who stay home can still very much sense how much  more prosperous the West is, but for the uneducated parts of society that is just because the West was pillaging and oppressing the world. They envy the prosperity but it never really occurs to them that maybe their society is doing something wrong.
And many of those who already have nationalistic tendencies when they emigrate, end up being full-blown far-righters of their homeland, hating the liberal filth that gives them a much better living standard than their homeland.

Of course that is pretty much harmless to the larger host community since European culture does not consider dying while fighting infidels the greatest of honors.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on August 19, 2017, 01:31:51 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 19, 2017, 10:38:53 AM

I have been telling this since the 9/11 attackers turned out to be Saudis who studied in Germany: can you just imagine? You grow up in Saudi Arabia or some other similar 3rd world craphole, you are being taught that the sun is shining out of the collective asses of your countrymen, and treating women like cattle is the best thing that could happen to them. Then you go to Europe, and you see a society that does pretty much the exact opposite of what your own, and is thriving.

There are two possible conclusions to draw: your homeland sucks goat ass, or this is all the work of the devil and the infidels need to follow your homeland's example so your homeland can become a better place. Or you need that to happen so you can get laid.


This narrative might work for terrorists from, say, Afghanistan,  but it doesn't really work for Saudis or others from the oil-rich states.  Those countries may be "craptastic" in many ways, but poverty and material deprivation isn't really the problem there.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on August 19, 2017, 01:52:49 PM
Quote from: dps on August 19, 2017, 01:31:51 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 19, 2017, 10:38:53 AM

I have been telling this since the 9/11 attackers turned out to be Saudis who studied in Germany: can you just imagine? You grow up in Saudi Arabia or some other similar 3rd world craphole, you are being taught that the sun is shining out of the collective asses of your countrymen, and treating women like cattle is the best thing that could happen to them. Then you go to Europe, and you see a society that does pretty much the exact opposite of what your own, and is thriving.

There are two possible conclusions to draw: your homeland sucks goat ass, or this is all the work of the devil and the infidels need to follow your homeland's example so your homeland can become a better place. Or you need that to happen so you can get laid.


This narrative might work for terrorists from, say, Afghanistan,  but it doesn't really work for Saudis or others from the oil-rich states.  Those countries may be "craptastic" in many ways, but poverty and material deprivation isn't really the problem there.

Oh there is, very much so.

Why would you think a kleptocracy would have a moderate income and wealth distribution?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on August 19, 2017, 01:56:07 PM
Quote from: mongers on August 19, 2017, 01:52:49 PM
Quote from: dps on August 19, 2017, 01:31:51 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 19, 2017, 10:38:53 AM

I have been telling this since the 9/11 attackers turned out to be Saudis who studied in Germany: can you just imagine? You grow up in Saudi Arabia or some other similar 3rd world craphole, you are being taught that the sun is shining out of the collective asses of your countrymen, and treating women like cattle is the best thing that could happen to them. Then you go to Europe, and you see a society that does pretty much the exact opposite of what your own, and is thriving.

There are two possible conclusions to draw: your homeland sucks goat ass, or this is all the work of the devil and the infidels need to follow your homeland's example so your homeland can become a better place. Or you need that to happen so you can get laid.


This narrative might work for terrorists from, say, Afghanistan,  but it doesn't really work for Saudis or others from the oil-rich states.  Those countries may be "craptastic" in many ways, but poverty and material deprivation isn't really the problem there.

Oh there is, very much so.

Why would you think a kleptocracy would have a moderate income and wealth distribution?

My understanding is that Saudi citizens themselves are all well-off.  The poor there are servants and workers imported from elsewhere, and that this is true of the other oil states as well.  Of course, I could be mis-informed on the point.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: derspiess on August 19, 2017, 10:20:50 PM
Poverty doesn't cause terrorism. Global warming does. Duh.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on August 19, 2017, 11:44:51 PM
Motherfuckers.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 20, 2017, 04:28:23 AM
Quote from: Tamas on August 19, 2017, 10:38:53 AM
Of course that is pretty much harmless to the larger host community since European culture does not consider dying while fighting infidels the greatest of honors.

that is still very much up in the air. The dying can take a very long time. But if our governments don't stop muslim mass-migration you can be sure they dying will go quite a bit faster. After: with sufficient muslims your country will become a shithole, like all other countries where islam rules.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on August 20, 2017, 07:19:05 AM

(https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/320/cpsprodpb/514F/production/_97451802_n190820172136.jpg)

Handout from the Lebanese army shows troops waving both the Lebanese and Spanish flags in the territory of Ras Baalbek

Quote
The Lebanese army has recaptured a third of a key region near its north-eastern border with Syria from so-called Islamic State, officials say.

Government troops launched an offensive in Ras Baalbek, the last remaining IS stronghold in the country, on Saturday.

The army says there are about 600 militants in the mountainous region, which IS has held since 2014.
...

Full item here:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40990487 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40990487)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 20, 2017, 08:15:56 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 19, 2017, 10:20:50 PM
Poverty doesn't cause terrorism. Global warming does. Duh.

Don't be stupid.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Liep on August 21, 2017, 04:58:19 AM
one killed in marseille after a guy drives into people at two bus stops.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on August 21, 2017, 05:08:58 AM
I had no idea Lebanon had ISIS occupied areas.

This car attack stuff is very strange. So simple and impossible to defend against, doesn't mean instant suicide... How come we are only seeing it now? Why wasn't it a thing in the past with the IRA, eta and Co?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on August 21, 2017, 05:16:05 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 21, 2017, 05:08:58 AM
I had no idea Lebanon had ISIS occupied areas.

This car attack stuff is very strange. So simple and impossible to defend against, doesn't mean instant suicide... How come we are only seeing it now? Why wasn't it a thing in the past with the IRA, eta and Co?

If you do a car attack you put the terrorist in a chaotic situation that has a lot of risks (consider the number of car attackers killed or apprehended). If you use say time bombs (and have the technical know-how in-house) you can do stuff with a lot less risk to yourself.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: celedhring on August 21, 2017, 05:24:38 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 21, 2017, 05:16:05 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 21, 2017, 05:08:58 AM
I had no idea Lebanon had ISIS occupied areas.

This car attack stuff is very strange. So simple and impossible to defend against, doesn't mean instant suicide... How come we are only seeing it now? Why wasn't it a thing in the past with the IRA, eta and Co?

If you do a car attack you put the terrorist in a chaotic situation that has a lot of risks (consider the number of car attackers killed or apprehended). If you use say time bombs (and have the technical know-how in-house) you can do stuff with a lot less risk to yourself.


Yup. ETA mostly used time bombs or remote bombs inside cars.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: celedhring on August 21, 2017, 06:20:30 AM
Looks like the alleged planner of the Barcelona attack spent some time in Belgium in 2016, just before the 2016 Brussels attacks. He sought employment in a mosque near Brussels, but was turned away when he failed to produce a police certificate (he had priors for drug peddling).



Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 21, 2017, 07:07:57 AM
Quote from: Liep on August 21, 2017, 04:58:19 AM
one killed in marseille after a guy drives into people at two bus stops.

For now, still described as "mentally unstable". He has a police record: drug pusher, battery and carrying of weapon without a license.

Plus another attempt in North Paris, a car driven by an individual shouting Allahu Akbar while listening to a loop of Al-Quran Suras tried to ram a police car. Failed and subsequently arrested.

http://www.lepoint.fr/societe/paris-un-vehicule-fonce-sur-la-police-21-08-2017-2151184_23.php (http://www.lepoint.fr/societe/paris-un-vehicule-fonce-sur-la-police-21-08-2017-2151184_23.php)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: celedhring on August 21, 2017, 10:17:34 AM
Last suspected terrorist shot down in a Catalan town while brandishing an alleged explosive belt (which I bet will end up being fake as the others).

I hope he enjoys his virgins.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 21, 2017, 10:55:27 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 19, 2017, 10:20:50 PM
Poverty doesn't cause terrorism. Global warming does. Duh.

Stop parroting Macron's line.  :rolleyes:
Or parrot it more accurately, verbatim.  ;)

Quote« On ne peut pas prétendre lutter efficacement contre le terrorisme, si on n'a pas une action résolue contre le réchauffement climatique », dit-il. Pour lui, « les grands déséquilibres de notre monde, ceux que nous sommes en train de vivre, sont liés au déséquilibre climatique que notre mode productif international a généré. »

It's linked (liés), not caused. Pretty disputable anyways.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2017/07/09/97001-20170709FILWWW00026-macron-terrorisme-et-climat-tout-est-lie.php (http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2017/07/09/97001-20170709FILWWW00026-macron-terrorisme-et-climat-tout-est-lie.php)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 21, 2017, 10:58:29 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 21, 2017, 05:08:58 AM
I had no idea Lebanon had ISIS occupied areas.

This car attack stuff is very strange. So simple and impossible to defend against, doesn't mean instant suicide... How come we are only seeing it now? Why wasn't it a thing in the past with the IRA, eta and Co?

Those groups didn't typically use suicide attacks. These car attackers seem to mostly get caught or killed, so not ideal for someone who wants to live to fight another day.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on August 21, 2017, 10:58:57 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on August 21, 2017, 07:07:57 AM
an individual shouting Allahu Akbar while listening to a loop of Al-Quran Suras tried to ram a police car.

One of many reasons why it's a good idea to let different ideologies march on our streets.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Iormlund on August 21, 2017, 05:22:15 PM
Quote from: Tyr on August 21, 2017, 05:08:58 AM
I had no idea Lebanon had ISIS occupied areas.

This car attack stuff is very strange. So simple and impossible to defend against, doesn't mean instant suicide... How come we are only seeing it now? Why wasn't it a thing in the past with the IRA, eta and Co?

Old school terrorists were a lot more professional. They were not expected to die or get caught after an attack.

One of the kids that attacked Barcelona last week rented the van with his older brother's ID. Then left it at the van ...
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 22, 2017, 04:05:56 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on August 21, 2017, 05:22:15 PM


Old school terrorists were a lot more professional. They were not expected to die or get caught after an attack.

One of the kids that attacked Barcelona last week rented the van with his older brother's ID. Then left it at the van ...

Only slightly less worse than one of the Charlie Hebdo attacks perpetrators, a Kouachi brother, leaving an ID in a car, yet not willing to abandon an ugly sneaker.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on August 22, 2017, 05:21:44 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 20, 2017, 04:28:23 AM
that is still very much up in the air. The dying can take a very long time. But if our governments don't stop muslim mass-migration you can be sure they dying will go quite a bit faster. After: with sufficient muslims your country will become a shithole, like all other countries where islam rules.

I think that's just Belgium.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on August 22, 2017, 06:31:27 AM
^_^
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 22, 2017, 01:03:34 PM
Quote from: Maladict on August 22, 2017, 05:21:44 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 20, 2017, 04:28:23 AM
that is still very much up in the air. The dying can take a very long time. But if our governments don't stop muslim mass-migration you can be sure they dying will go quite a bit faster. After: with sufficient muslims your country will become a shithole, like all other countries where islam rules.

I think that's just Belgium.

Nah, islam can only make it more of shithole.
But it doesn't take away from the reality that all countries where islam is boss are shitholes. And it doesn't take away from the reality either that everywhere there are growing amounts of muslims there's a significant amount of them that want to make their hostcountries into islamic shitholes too.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: derspiess on August 22, 2017, 03:11:28 PM
 ^_^
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on August 22, 2017, 03:12:45 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 22, 2017, 01:03:34 PM
Quote from: Maladict on August 22, 2017, 05:21:44 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 20, 2017, 04:28:23 AM
that is still very much up in the air. The dying can take a very long time. But if our governments don't stop muslim mass-migration you can be sure they dying will go quite a bit faster. After: with sufficient muslims your country will become a shithole, like all other countries where islam rules.

I think that's just Belgium.

Nah, islam can only make it more of shithole.
But it doesn't take away from the reality that all countries where islam is boss are shitholes. And it doesn't take away from the reality either that everywhere there are growing amounts of muslims there's a significant amount of them that want to make their hostcountries into islamic shitholes too.

Same with the Christian nutjobs. But they seem to be going extinct in these parts, thankfully.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on August 22, 2017, 06:01:43 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 22, 2017, 01:03:34 PM
Quote from: Maladict on August 22, 2017, 05:21:44 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 20, 2017, 04:28:23 AM
that is still very much up in the air. The dying can take a very long time. But if our governments don't stop muslim mass-migration you can be sure they dying will go quite a bit faster. After: with sufficient muslims your country will become a shithole, like all other countries where islam rules.

I think that's just Belgium.

Nah, islam can only make it more of shithole.
But it doesn't take away from the reality that all countries where islam is boss are shitholes. And it doesn't take away from the reality either that everywhere there are growing amounts of muslims there's a significant amount of them that want to make their hostcountries into islamic shitholes too.
lots of shithole countries are Christian too.

The Southern US States have been described to me as a giant open sky dumpster.
There are more murders in Miami for a day than in my city for a century.
Haiti is a Christian shithole.
The Republican Dominic is moderately better.
Cuba is not muslim, no Central or South American countries are muslim.
Most African countries are shitholes and half of them have a majority of Christians.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 22, 2017, 07:50:19 PM
The southern United States have the same general quality of life as the northern states and Canada.  :rolleyes:

Only marginally higher church attendance too.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 22, 2017, 08:22:21 PM
Alabama is a shithole.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HVC on August 22, 2017, 08:24:24 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 22, 2017, 07:50:19 PM
The southern United States have the same general quality of life as the northern states and Canada.  :rolleyes:

Only marginally higher church attendance too.

I was under the impression that baring the big cities that places like Mississippi and Louisiana were shit holes?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 22, 2017, 10:58:56 PM
Small towns in Ontario suck too.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on August 22, 2017, 11:50:53 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 22, 2017, 10:58:56 PM
Small towns in Ontario suck too.

Most places, big city or small town, suck, regardless of the majority view on religion by the locals.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 23, 2017, 05:41:55 AM
It's been a while for Charlie Hebdo. Some in the left are waking up it seems.

(https://img.20mn.fr/dR8rv3UBTI6N2LQTmQrw-A/960x614_charlie-hebdo-apres-attentats-catalogne-23-aout-2017)

Islam, religion of peace...

Eternal peace!

PS: the rewriting of Camus' Stranger seems promising.  :P

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 23, 2017, 06:35:35 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 19, 2017, 10:20:50 PM
Poverty doesn't cause terrorism. Global warming does. Duh.

Global warming causes droughts which cause famine which cause starvation and poverty, which leads to violence. So, yes, yes it does. It was a major cause of the Syrian Civil War.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on August 23, 2017, 06:55:20 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 23, 2017, 06:35:35 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 19, 2017, 10:20:50 PM
Poverty doesn't cause terrorism. Global warming does. Duh.

Global warming causes droughts which cause famine which cause starvation and poverty, which leads to violence. So, yes, yes it does. It was a major cause of the Syrian Civil War.

Yes you can call it famine, but I'll just call it less eating.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on August 23, 2017, 07:02:28 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 23, 2017, 06:35:35 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 19, 2017, 10:20:50 PM
Poverty doesn't cause terrorism. Global warming does. Duh.

Global warming causes droughts which cause famine which cause starvation and poverty, which leads to violence. So, yes, yes it does. It was a major cause of the Syrian Civil War.

:yes: Everyone in the Third World lacks agency.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 23, 2017, 10:51:38 AM
Quote from: viper37 on August 22, 2017, 06:01:43 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 22, 2017, 01:03:34 PM
Quote from: Maladict on August 22, 2017, 05:21:44 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 20, 2017, 04:28:23 AM
that is still very much up in the air. The dying can take a very long time. But if our governments don't stop muslim mass-migration you can be sure they dying will go quite a bit faster. After: with sufficient muslims your country will become a shithole, like all other countries where islam rules.

I think that's just Belgium.

Nah, islam can only make it more of shithole.
But it doesn't take away from the reality that all countries where islam is boss are shitholes. And it doesn't take away from the reality either that everywhere there are growing amounts of muslims there's a significant amount of them that want to make their hostcountries into islamic shitholes too.
lots of shithole countries are Christian too.
but not all of them. Of the 50+ islamic countries there is not one (afaik) that has the freedoms western countries enjoy, none of them protects minorities to the extent western countries do, few if any consider fully half of their population as equals to the other half and all of them place religious law above human rights.

Given that you mention South-America: I doubt I'll be mistaken that a muslim in Brasil will be better of (regarding rights and prospects) than a Copt in Egypt.

I have hope for Tunisia, but it's still early and the progressive forces in the islamic world are weak and scorned by those in the West (where progressives rather take stances that embolden the fundamentalists of the religion).

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on August 23, 2017, 10:54:04 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 23, 2017, 10:51:38 AM
Quote from: viper37 on August 22, 2017, 06:01:43 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 22, 2017, 01:03:34 PM
Quote from: Maladict on August 22, 2017, 05:21:44 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 20, 2017, 04:28:23 AM
that is still very much up in the air. The dying can take a very long time. But if our governments don't stop muslim mass-migration you can be sure they dying will go quite a bit faster. After: with sufficient muslims your country will become a shithole, like all other countries where islam rules.

I think that's just Belgium.

Nah, islam can only make it more of shithole.
But it doesn't take away from the reality that all countries where islam is boss are shitholes. And it doesn't take away from the reality either that everywhere there are growing amounts of muslims there's a significant amount of them that want to make their hostcountries into islamic shitholes too.
lots of shithole countries are Christian too.
but not all of them. Of the 50+ islamic countries there is not one (afaik) that has the freedoms western countries enjoy, none of them protects minorities to the extent western countries do, few if any consider fully half of their population as equals to the other half and all of them place religious law above human rights.

Given that you mention South-America: I doubt I'll be mistaken that a muslim in Brasil will be better of (regarding rights and prospects) than a Copt in Egypt.

I have hope for Tunisia, but it's still early and the progressive forces in the islamic world are weak and scorned by those in the West (where progressives rather take stances that embolden the fundamentalists of the religion).
3rd world countries are shitholes compared to Western countries.  Nobody denies that.  the more religious a nation is, the less freedom it enjoys, the less protection minorities receives, I don't deny that either.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: derspiess on August 23, 2017, 10:55:01 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 23, 2017, 06:35:35 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 19, 2017, 10:20:50 PM
Poverty doesn't cause terrorism. Global warming does. Duh.

Global warming causes droughts which cause famine which cause starvation and poverty, which leads to violence. So, yes, yes it does. It was a major cause of the Syrian Civil War.

:lol:  Thanks Tim.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 25, 2017, 04:14:39 PM
http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20170825_03035540 (in dutch)

Knife attack in Brussels, muslim for a change. Fanatic has been shot, as is proper and right.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on August 26, 2017, 06:29:22 PM
Nutter drives car at police outside Buck.Pal. then tries to attacked them with a 4ft sword, all to the now familiar soundtrack of 'Alohar Backbar'
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Iormlund on September 12, 2017, 01:41:03 PM
Apparently there's a European-wide alert. Lots of police activity in Barcelona.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on September 12, 2017, 02:04:34 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on September 12, 2017, 01:41:03 PM
Apparently there's a European-wide alert. Lots of police activity in Barcelona.

Champions League?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 12, 2017, 02:13:30 PM
Quote from: Maladict on September 12, 2017, 02:04:34 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on September 12, 2017, 01:41:03 PM
Apparently there's a European-wide alert. Lots of police activity in Barcelona.

Champions League?

:lol:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Iormlund on September 12, 2017, 02:20:13 PM
They are looking for 5 members of the religion of peace.

There might be a suspicious package in the Sagrada Familia. Lots of police, possibly bomb squad. Metro station has been closed down at lines 2 and 5.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 12, 2017, 04:10:25 PM
What did the Bahaiists do this time?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on September 12, 2017, 05:34:09 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on September 12, 2017, 02:20:13 PM
They are looking for 5 members of the religion of peace.

There might be a suspicious package in the Sagrada Familia. Lots of police, possibly bomb squad. Metro station has been closed down at lines 2 and 5.

I had an ancestor that helped destroy a town called Sagrada.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 12, 2017, 06:23:54 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 23, 2017, 10:55:01 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 23, 2017, 06:35:35 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 19, 2017, 10:20:50 PM
Poverty doesn't cause terrorism. Global warming does. Duh.

Global warming causes droughts which cause famine which cause starvation and poverty, which leads to violence. So, yes, yes it does. It was a major cause of the Syrian Civil War.

:lol:  Thanks Tim.

Don't know what's so funny about the truth.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 12, 2017, 06:41:15 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 12, 2017, 06:23:54 PM
Don't know what's so funny about the truth.

He doesn't believe it because he's told not to believe it.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maximus on September 12, 2017, 06:46:04 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on September 12, 2017, 06:41:15 PM
He doesn't believe it because he's told not to believe it.
:huh: How long have you known him? It's the opposite. He doesn't believe it because he is told to believe it. He's very easy to manipulate, just tell him the opposite of what you want him to believe.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 12, 2017, 08:30:14 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 12, 2017, 06:23:54 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 23, 2017, 10:55:01 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 23, 2017, 06:35:35 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 19, 2017, 10:20:50 PM
Poverty doesn't cause terrorism. Global warming does. Duh.

Global warming causes droughts which cause famine which cause starvation and poverty, which leads to violence. So, yes, yes it does. It was a major cause of the Syrian Civil War.

:lol:  Thanks Tim.

Don't know what's so funny about the truth.

Did it take you three weeks to come up with that?  :lol:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: jimmy olsen on September 12, 2017, 11:21:56 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 12, 2017, 08:30:14 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on September 12, 2017, 06:23:54 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 23, 2017, 10:55:01 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 23, 2017, 06:35:35 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 19, 2017, 10:20:50 PM
Poverty doesn't cause terrorism. Global warming does. Duh.

Global warming causes droughts which cause famine which cause starvation and poverty, which leads to violence. So, yes, yes it does. It was a major cause of the Syrian Civil War.

:lol:  Thanks Tim.

Don't know what's so funny about the truth.

Did it take you three weeks to come up with that?  :lol:

I just saw it.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: celedhring on September 13, 2017, 03:48:58 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on September 12, 2017, 02:20:13 PM
They are looking for 5 members of the religion of peace.

There might be a suspicious package in the Sagrada Familia. Lots of police, possibly bomb squad. Metro station has been closed down at lines 2 and 5.

False alarm.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on September 13, 2017, 06:18:22 AM
Quote from: celedhring on September 13, 2017, 03:48:58 AM
Quote from: Iormlund on September 12, 2017, 02:20:13 PM
They are looking for 5 members of the religion of peace.

There might be a suspicious package in the Sagrada Familia. Lots of police, possibly bomb squad. Metro station has been closed down at lines 2 and 5.

False alarm.


But Sagrada, Missouri is still under a lake.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Solmyr on September 14, 2017, 02:58:18 AM
So, guess members of which religion in Russia are burning cars, threatening to bomb cinemas and commit other terrorist acts against a showing of a controversial historical film?

Hint: it's not Islam.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 14, 2017, 03:28:11 AM
"Oh some Christians made bomb threats, so they're just as dangerous as Muslims who actually detonate bombs!"
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on September 14, 2017, 04:00:28 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on September 14, 2017, 02:58:18 AM
So, guess members of which religion in Russia are burning cars, threatening to bomb cinemas and commit other terrorist acts against a showing of a controversial historical film?

Hint: it's not Islam.

Fucking wiccans.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Solmyr on September 14, 2017, 06:42:41 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 14, 2017, 03:28:11 AM
"Oh some Christians made bomb threats, so they're just as dangerous as Muslims who actually detonate bombs!"

They actually burned a cinema in Yekaterinburg already. You don't think Russian Orthodox fundamentalists are dangerous?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 14, 2017, 07:25:00 AM
They are people, so yes, they're dangerous. I would hazard a guess that the crime rate among Russian Orthodox is lower than the Russian population at large though.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on September 14, 2017, 07:53:53 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 14, 2017, 03:28:11 AM
"Oh some Christians made bomb threats, so they're just as dangerous as Muslims who actually detonate bombs!"

Islamic extremists are more competent.
Christians are more numerous where I live.
Six and two threes.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 14, 2017, 08:01:10 AM
They're not more competent, the Christian arsonists aren't trying to kill people.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on September 14, 2017, 08:06:08 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 14, 2017, 08:01:10 AM
They're not more competent, the Christian arsonists aren't trying to kill people.

I notice that you refuse to say "radical Christian terrorists."  Irony  isn't just the opposite of wrinkly.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 14, 2017, 08:09:16 AM
That would be ironic if I was one of the people getting worked up over that phrasing, which I'm not.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on September 14, 2017, 09:04:14 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 14, 2017, 07:53:53 AM
Islamic extremists are more competent.
Christians are more numerous where I live.
Six and two threes.

:bleeding: Whataboutism
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 14, 2017, 11:54:24 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 14, 2017, 09:04:14 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 14, 2017, 07:53:53 AM
Islamic extremists are more competent.
Christians are more numerous where I live.
Six and two threes.

:bleeding: Whataboutism

Bad math.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on September 14, 2017, 12:04:57 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 14, 2017, 09:04:14 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 14, 2017, 07:53:53 AM
Islamic extremists are more competent.
Christians are more numerous where I live.
Six and two threes.

:bleeding: Whataboutism

That's not whataboutism. I mean, you may think it's a weak point, but he's not changing the topic of discussion by saying "what about...."
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on September 14, 2017, 12:12:32 PM
Oh? Russian Orthodox nationalist types are probably not more numerous in Switzerland.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tonitrus on September 14, 2017, 12:56:51 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 14, 2017, 07:25:00 AM
They are people, so yes, they're dangerous. I would hazard a guess that the crime rate among Russian Orthodox is lower than the Russian population at large though.

People just suck.

The news keeps saying that the ethnic cleansers in Burma are "Buddhists"...that karma should be a bitch.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Solmyr on September 14, 2017, 01:05:13 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 14, 2017, 12:12:32 PM
Oh? Russian Orthodox nationalist types are probably not more numerous in Switzerland.

There are plenty of Russians with nationalistic tendencies all over Europe. Not to mention right-wing nutjob types supported by Russians.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on September 14, 2017, 01:08:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 14, 2017, 12:12:32 PM
Oh? Russian Orthodox nationalist types are probably not more numerous in Switzerland.

Probably not, but Tyr conflating all Christians and talking about stuff in his vicinity is just Tyr's general lack of precision and free association posting, not whataboutism IMO.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on September 14, 2017, 03:57:32 PM
Personally, I blame the Soviet.  <_<
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Liep on September 15, 2017, 05:50:56 AM
Bomb exploded on a London underground train.

Not much happened though, a few burns and a few in shock. The bomb was a plastic bucket in a Lidl bag, harsh times for the terrorists.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on September 15, 2017, 05:56:36 AM
Brexit will protect against German terrorism.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on September 15, 2017, 07:27:13 AM
Quote from: Liep on September 15, 2017, 05:50:56 AM
Bomb exploded on a London underground train.

Not much happened though, a few burns and a few in shock. The bomb was a plastic bucket in a Lidl bag, harsh times for the terrorists.

Seems like the man of peace who assembled it botched it up: it did not fully explode, luckily.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on September 15, 2017, 07:41:49 AM
I'm not sure I understand that line other than to make it sure it's clear one is a douche.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on September 15, 2017, 07:45:12 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 15, 2017, 07:41:49 AM
I'm not sure I understand that line other than to make it sure it's clear one is a douche.

Is that based on something in the actual sentence, or just a general conclusion on me?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on September 15, 2017, 08:12:42 AM
Quote from: Tamas on September 15, 2017, 07:27:13 AM
Quote from: Liep on September 15, 2017, 05:50:56 AM
Bomb exploded on a London underground train.

Not much happened though, a few burns and a few in shock. The bomb was a plastic bucket in a Lidl bag, harsh times for the terrorists.

Seems like the man of peace who assembled it botched it up: it did not fully explode, luckily.


Well, Tyr was wrong again.  They aren't more competent
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: derspiess on September 15, 2017, 08:27:28 AM
Quote from: garbon on September 15, 2017, 07:41:49 AM
I'm not sure I understand that line other than to make it sure it's clear one is a douche.

One of you may be a douche, but it's not Tamas :P
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on September 15, 2017, 08:40:47 AM
Has there been any confirmation London was anything to do with Islamic extremists yet?
Do recall the most recent terror in the UK:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/national-action-neo-nazi-soldiers-arrests-far-right-terror-charges-plot-extremism-inquiry-calls-a7933356.html

Either way this amused me:
http://newsthump.com/2017/09/15/london-is-lost-claims-alt-right-snowflake-doing-literally-everything-isis-want-from-him/

Quote'London is lost', claims alt-right snowflake doing literally everything ISIS want from him


Alt-right snowflake
A terrified little man-child with big opinions is saying precisely what ISIS want him to say, according to sources this morning.

As police reported an explosion on a tube train at Parsons Green tube station was being treated as a terrorist attack, alt-right nutjob Jack Williams told his thousands of social media followers that the nation's capital is now 'lost'.

He told his YouTube followers on a swiftly recorded hot-take, "ISIS has won, London is now a complete no-go area because libtard do-gooders are too worried about virtue signalling to actually do what's needed, which is to ban Muslim immigrants and send the ones already here back where they came from.

"I am red-pilling an entire generation into understanding that this is what's needed," he concluded, before he was shouted at by his off-screen mother for not putting his rice crispies bowl in the dishwasher.

An ISIS spokesperson spoke of his pleasure at Williams' video efforts, telling us, "Having Londoners turn on the Muslim community is quite literally what we want you all to do.

"The odd bomb or car driving into the public isn't going to defeat a city of nine million people – we know that, we're not idiots. We do it so the frightened little boys among you will do our recruiting for us.

"So please, continue getting angry at all the immigrants, the Muslim communities, and blame them for our actions, because right now that's the only way we get the holy war we desperately crave.

"We've tried recruiting Muslims ourselves, but it turns out the vast majority of them actually quite like life in the west, and much prefer it to our medieval interpretation of the Koran.

"So our only hope now is by triggering racist simpletons into attacking Muslims for us. On that point, you should all be following Katie Hopkins; she talks an awful lot of sense."


Quote from: Jacob on September 14, 2017, 01:08:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 14, 2017, 12:12:32 PM
Oh? Russian Orthodox nationalist types are probably not more numerous in Switzerland.

Probably not, but Tyr conflating all Christians and talking about stuff in his vicinity is just Tyr's general lack of precision and free association posting, not whataboutism IMO.

It was intentional, since the far right loves to group all muslims together and tar them all with the wahabist nutter brush.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on September 15, 2017, 01:19:00 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 15, 2017, 08:40:47 AM
It was intentional, since the far right loves to group all muslims together and tar them all with the wahabist nutter brush.

And I agree that is irresponsible and very bad. These strike me as reasons not to do it to.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on September 15, 2017, 02:34:59 PM
If only it was limited to the far right.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on September 15, 2017, 04:39:18 PM
It's that old time double tap, attacks on independent women to the accompanment of Aloha back-bar.

QuoteFrance: Women injured in hammer attack

A man is on the run after injuring two women with a hammer in Chalon-sur-Saône, in eastern France.

The women were allegedly assaulted, about 15 minutes apart, by a man just before midday on Friday.

Witnesses said the suspect shouted "Allahu Akbar" ("God is greatest" in Arabic) during the attacks.

French prosecutors say they are treating the incident as a possible terror attack, but did not rule out other motives.

The women's injuries are not life-threatening, and local media report that they have already been released from hospital.

Officials asked locals not to share information on social media about the location of police while the manhunt for the attacker was still under way.

Earlier on Friday a man was arrested at Châtelet metro station in Paris after reportedly attacking a soldier with a knife at 06:30 (04:30 GMT).

It was the latest in a string of assaults against French troops, who have been deployed across the country in response to recent terror attacks.

The soldier was not injured in the incident.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41282294 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41282294)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on September 15, 2017, 04:46:35 PM
Stop! :angry:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on September 15, 2017, 05:04:46 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 15, 2017, 01:19:00 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 15, 2017, 08:40:47 AM
It was intentional, since the far right loves to group all muslims together and tar them all with the wahabist nutter brush.

And I agree that is irresponsible and very bad. These strike me as reasons not to do it to.

Yeah, but consider the source.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 15, 2017, 05:36:15 PM
Quote from: mongers on September 15, 2017, 04:39:18 PM
It's that old time double tap, attacks on independent women to the accompanment of Aloha back-bar.

QuoteFrance: Women injured in hammer attack

A man is on the run after injuring two women with a hammer in Chalon-sur-Saône, in eastern France.

The women were allegedly assaulted, about 15 minutes apart, by a man just before midday on Friday.

Witnesses said the suspect shouted "Allahu Akbar" ("God is greatest" in Arabic) during the attacks.

French prosecutors say they are treating the incident as a possible terror attack, but did not rule out other motives.

The women's injuries are not life-threatening, and local media report that they have already been released from hospital.

Officials asked locals not to share information on social media about the location of police while the manhunt for the attacker was still under way.

Earlier on Friday a man was arrested at Châtelet metro station in Paris after reportedly attacking a soldier with a knife at 06:30 (04:30 GMT).

It was the latest in a string of assaults against French troops, who have been deployed across the country in response to recent terror attacks.

The soldier was not injured in the incident.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41282294 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41282294)

Châlons-sur-Saône has  a population of 45,000.  Those attacks are no longer the province of big cities. :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 16, 2017, 12:41:50 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 15, 2017, 05:36:15 PM
Quote from: mongers on September 15, 2017, 04:39:18 PM
It's that old time double tap, attacks on independent women to the accompanment of Aloha back-bar.

QuoteFrance: Women injured in hammer attack

A man is on the run after injuring two women with a hammer in Chalon-sur-Saône, in eastern France.

The women were allegedly assaulted, about 15 minutes apart, by a man just before midday on Friday.

Witnesses said the suspect shouted "Allahu Akbar" ("God is greatest" in Arabic) during the attacks.

French prosecutors say they are treating the incident as a possible terror attack, but did not rule out other motives.

The women's injuries are not life-threatening, and local media report that they have already been released from hospital.

Officials asked locals not to share information on social media about the location of police while the manhunt for the attacker was still under way.

Earlier on Friday a man was arrested at Châtelet metro station in Paris after reportedly attacking a soldier with a knife at 06:30 (04:30 GMT).

It was the latest in a string of assaults against French troops, who have been deployed across the country in response to recent terror attacks.

The soldier was not injured in the incident.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41282294 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41282294)

Châlons-sur-Saône has  a population of 45,000.  Those attacks are no longer the province of big cities. :(

well, everywhere there's an aloha snackbar you'll risk having this. Until they're either gone, subdued or victorious in eliminating everyone one part of the aloha snackbar.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on September 16, 2017, 03:28:28 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 16, 2017, 12:41:50 PM
well, everywhere there's an aloha snackbar you'll risk having this. Until they're either gone, subdued or victorious in eliminating everyone one part of the aloha snackbar.

I think that there will be a violent break between the hello snackbar and goodbye snackbar before then, and the aloha snacknar  will pretty much wipe itself out.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on September 16, 2017, 03:41:55 PM
I thought Aloha was used to mean both "Hello" and "Goodbye"
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 16, 2017, 03:42:56 PM
Most yanquis don't realize it but so does ciao.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on September 16, 2017, 04:03:14 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 16, 2017, 03:41:55 PM
I thought Aloha was used to mean both "Hello" and "Goodbye"

Dang Hawaiian terrorists.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on September 16, 2017, 04:32:49 PM
The Chinese sign for crisis means both president and retard.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 16, 2017, 04:34:19 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 16, 2017, 03:41:55 PM
I thought Aloha was used to mean both "Hello" and "Goodbye"

Making it the perfect greeting for suicide bombers.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on September 16, 2017, 04:35:05 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 16, 2017, 04:34:19 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 16, 2017, 03:41:55 PM
I thought Aloha was used to mean both "Hello" and "Goodbye"

Making it the perfect greeting for suicide bombers.

^_^
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on September 16, 2017, 06:48:14 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on September 16, 2017, 04:34:19 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 16, 2017, 03:41:55 PM
I thought Aloha was used to mean both "Hello" and "Goodbye"

Making it the perfect greeting for suicide bombers.

So is "Shalom"
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Barrister on October 01, 2017, 07:25:31 AM
Holy Shit - suspected terrorist attack in Edmonton.

QuoteEdmonton police investigate 'acts of terrorism' after officer stabbed, pedestrians run down
5 people were injured and 1 person is in custody
By Alexandra Zabjek, CBC News Posted: Oct 01, 2017 1:49 AM MT Last Updated: Oct 01, 2017 5:54 AM MT
 
Police searching for suspect after officer injured in altercation near Eskimos game
​A man who stabbed a police officer with a knife and deliberately plowed into pedestrians on Edmonton's busiest downtown strip is being investigated for "acts of terrorism," police said at a news conference early Sunday.
A 30-year-old man is in custody following a high-speed chase just before midnight through streets filled with bar patrons and football fans. The chase ended only after a white U-Haul van the man was driving struck four pedestrians and flipped on its side.
"We believe the individual acted alone," Edmonton police Chief Rod Knecht said early Sunday, adding that police would investigate the possible involvement of others.
Knecht confirmed that a black ISIS flag was seized from a car where the police officer was attacked. The officer was not critically injured. The condition of the four pedestrians is not known.
"Based on evidence at the scenes and the actions of the suspect ... it was determined that these incidents are being investigated as acts of terrorism," Knecht said.



The first attack happened around 8 p.m. Saturday near Commonwealth Stadium where an officer was working traffic control for a CFL game.
Knecht said the officer was standing behind a barricade when a Chevrolet Malibu crashed into it, hit the officer and sent him flying 4.5 metres into the air.
"A male believed to be 30 years old then jumped out of his vehicle and viciously attacked the Edmonton Police Service member with a knife," Knecht said. "A struggle then ensued, during which the male suspect stabbed the officer several times before fleeing the scene on foot, northbound down 92nd Street.
The officer was taken to hospital, but his injuries are not critical.
At around 10 p.m., police told a news conference that a manhunt was underway, but there was no threat to the public.
Just before midnight, a white U-Haul van was pulled over at a Checkstop on the north side of town. When a police officer checked the driver's name, he recognized it as being similar to the name of the registered owner of the car that had struck the officer at Commonwealth Stadium.
'The police cars just kept coming'
The U-Haul immediately sped off toward downtown Edmonton, where streets were filled with Saturday night bar crowds and football fans. 
As bystanders watched, the van barrelled down Jasper Avenue with up to 20 police vehicles following.
"The police cars just kept coming. They just kept coming," said Jaylene Ellard, who was out with a friend on the crisp fall evening.


Another witness said the vehicles were driving up to 80 km/h in the 50 km/h zone.




"That high-speed chase should have never, ever in a million years have happened downtown," said Brian McNeill, who was in a parking lot with a group of friends when the vehicles sped past.
One witness said police cars began to block streets that connect to Jasper Avenue. The U-Haul eventually doubled back and drove the opposite way down Jasper Avenue. Near 107th Street the van struck at least two pedestrians.
"During the chase, the U-Haul truck deliberately attempted to hit pedestrians in crosswalks and alleys in two areas along Jasper Avenue," Knecht said. 
Eventually, the van flipped and landed on its side.
Pat Hannigan was about a quarter-block away when he heard a loud bang.
"I saw the van on its side, it flipped over, U-Haul van," he said. "And they had a guy handcuffed on the ground and obviously they smashed out the window. They had a pipe or something in their hand."
Knecht said officers did not stop the chase along the busy downtown street "due to the seriousness of the offence — or the believed offence."
Police are scheduled to hold another news conference at 3 p.m. Sunday.
Edmonton police are working with the RCMP's Integration National Security Enforcement Teams on the investigation.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/jasper-downtown-edmonton-pedestrians-struck-1.4315545
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on October 01, 2017, 11:47:16 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/01/french-police-operation-under-way-at-marseille-train-station

QuoteMan shot dead by French army after killing two people at Marseille train station

A knifeman fatally stabbed two women at the main train station in the southern French city of Marseille on Sunday afternoon before soldiers on patrol shot him dead.

One of the victims was stabbed while the other had her throat slit by the man who is believed to have shouted "Allahu Akbar" ("God is greatest") at the start of the attack, a source close to the investigation told AFP.

Anti-terror prosecutors have opened an investigation into "killings linked to a terrorist organisation" and the "attempted killing of a public official". But investigators remained prudent, and did not make conclusive remarks about the nature of the incident. The investigation has been handed to central police forces, not anti-terrorism police.

The attacker, who was reported to be in his 30s, was not carrying identity documents. AFP quoted a source close to the inquiry who suggested the man was known to police for criminal offences.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 01, 2017, 11:50:34 AM
Garbon beat me to it.

Just some context then: Marseille has the highest islamic population in %, for a French city.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Ed Anger on October 01, 2017, 04:32:52 PM
Its Islamic season.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 01, 2017, 04:42:15 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 01, 2017, 04:32:52 PM
Its Islamic season.

Duck Season!
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Ed Anger on October 01, 2017, 04:44:30 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 01, 2017, 04:42:15 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 01, 2017, 04:32:52 PM
Its Islamic season.

Duck Season!

Islamic season!
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 01, 2017, 04:47:09 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 01, 2017, 04:44:30 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 01, 2017, 04:42:15 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 01, 2017, 04:32:52 PM
Its Islamic season.

Duck Season!

Islamic season!

Islamic season!
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Ed Anger on October 01, 2017, 04:53:56 PM
Duck Season! SHOOT ME NOW
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malicious Intent on October 02, 2017, 03:07:19 AM
Armed attack on a music festival in Las Vegas. 2 Dead and 24 wounded confirmed at this moment. :(
Police confirmed they took down one armed man. No information on the identity of the attacker so far.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41466116 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41466116)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on October 02, 2017, 03:11:21 AM
The one armed man?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 02, 2017, 03:34:51 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tasteofcinema.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F09%2FThe-New-One-Armed-Swordsman.jpg&hash=231387ceb59fad912ed494871c939ff72f1e026f)

I don't think it's this one.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Liep on October 02, 2017, 04:23:54 AM
Sounds like it was a horrible attack :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on October 02, 2017, 04:34:16 AM
Now they're saying at least 20 dead and over 100 wounded in Las Vegas.  Still no info on who the attacker was or the motive.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on October 02, 2017, 04:49:21 AM
Pretty bad. I can visualize the space as I was just there in January. :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: katmai on October 02, 2017, 05:39:41 AM
Reported of 50+ dead, 200+ injured.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Grey Fox on October 02, 2017, 06:23:14 AM
Over 50 makes it the worse shooting recorded.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on October 02, 2017, 06:50:12 AM
:(

They often let a well regulated militia into hotels in Vegas?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 02, 2017, 06:53:58 AM
Well, they don't have metal scanners at the door.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 02, 2017, 07:09:28 AM
Expect Trump to start Twitterhating on the Las Vegas mayor over hurricane response, thinks it's in Puerto Rico.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on October 02, 2017, 07:44:29 AM
All the fake news you might ever want.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/here-are-all-the-hoaxes-being-spread-about-the-las-vegas?utm_term=.wxAP24B7A#.dc45dKGew
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HVC on October 02, 2017, 07:49:18 AM
He was shooting from the 32nd floor. You (or at least I) forget how deadly firearms can still be at range.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Berkut on October 02, 2017, 08:42:19 AM
Quote from: HVC on October 02, 2017, 07:49:18 AM
He was shooting from the 32nd floor. You (or at least I) forget how deadly firearms can still be at range.

Initial reports sound like he was using an automatic weapon spraying into a dense crowd. If he was 400 feet up, and shooting across the street, that means he is firing at a range of, what...200 meters or so? Maybe 300m?

That isn't far at all for a high powered rifle or some kind of light machine gun.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malicious Intent on October 02, 2017, 08:46:59 AM
What's the effective range of an assault rifle? Around 200-300 meters?

Guess the height made the guns even more effective. Firing from an elevated position into a large and tightly packed crowd with a fully automatic weapon probably results in lot's of hits to the head and upper torso area.


Edit: Thanks to Berkut for addressing my question in advance.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Berkut on October 02, 2017, 08:53:28 AM
Quote from: Malicious Intent on October 02, 2017, 08:46:59 AM
What's the effective range of an assault rifle? Around 200-300 meters?


Yeah, generally your effective engagement range for an assault rifle is considered to be about 300m. But that is for engaging point targets, where you are trying to hit a particular person without a scope. Effective area target range is more like 500-800m. And it will kill out to a 1200m+, I am sure.

I think with a scope you could hit point targets out to 600+ with something like an M-16, which is considered pretty accurate for an assault rifle. My guess is that even more modern ones are more accurate and deadly.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on October 02, 2017, 09:01:14 AM
Quote from: Berkut on October 02, 2017, 08:42:19 AM
Initial reports sound like he was using an automatic weapon spraying into a dense crowd. If he was 400 feet up, and shooting across the street, that means he is firing at a range of, what...200 meters or so? Maybe 300m?

That isn't far at all for a high powered rifle or some kind of light machine gun.

The gunman was shooting into a crowd about a block away. 
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HVC on October 02, 2017, 09:04:49 AM
selling something that can kill multiple people in short order from 1200m away being legal sounds so weird to my canuck head.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on October 02, 2017, 09:08:27 AM
It is early days and could all change, but so far, from what I glean from the news, no known motive, no links to any terrorism, no significant police history, his "companion" out of the country and not considered involved ... and he killed himself.

Looks like we just aren't going to get answers as to motive, other than some version of going postal.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HVC on October 02, 2017, 09:27:24 AM
Probably a fame seeking thing.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on October 02, 2017, 10:44:24 AM
Probably lost all his money at the Casinos.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on October 02, 2017, 03:31:20 PM
Quote from: HVC on October 02, 2017, 07:49:18 AM
He was shooting from the 32nd floor. You (or at least I) forget how deadly firearms can still be at range.

Heck, throw the bullets out the window from that height into a crowd and you're probably going to get some kills.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 02, 2017, 04:00:59 PM
Is this one terrorism? No word on any motive yet and he wasn't targeting a particular group.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malicious Intent on October 02, 2017, 04:17:00 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 02, 2017, 04:00:59 PM
Is this one terrorism? No word on any motive yet and he wasn't targeting a particular group.

Looked like a terror attack in the beginning, but with all we know now, it looks more like "just" some psycho's killing spree.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 04:22:53 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 02, 2017, 08:42:19 AM
Quote from: HVC on October 02, 2017, 07:49:18 AM
He was shooting from the 32nd floor. You (or at least I) forget how deadly firearms can still be at range.

Initial reports sound like he was using an automatic weapon spraying into a dense crowd. If he was 400 feet up, and shooting across the street, that means he is firing at a range of, what...200 meters or so? Maybe 300m?

That isn't far at all for a high powered rifle or some kind of light machine gun.

Pretty much. Elevated position + 100 to 200 meters + Mass target tightly grouped + Automatic rifle = High causality count. (Don't have to be expert with the rifle either.)

Also see the U of T tower shooter in 1966
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: alfred russel on October 02, 2017, 04:26:50 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 02, 2017, 10:44:24 AM
Probably lost all his money at the Casinos.

Maybe he paid a lot for the hotel room and just got really frustrated he couldn't enjoy it with the country music playing really loud.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on October 02, 2017, 05:14:09 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 02, 2017, 04:26:50 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 02, 2017, 10:44:24 AM
Probably lost all his money at the Casinos.

Maybe he paid a lot for the hotel room and just got really frustrated he couldn't enjoy it with the country music playing really loud.
country music has this effect on some people.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 02, 2017, 06:48:19 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 04:22:53 PM
Pretty much. Elevated position + 100 to 200 meters + Mass target tightly grouped + Automatic rifle = High causality count. (Don't have to be expert with the rifle either.)

Also see the U of T tower shooter in 1966

Languish wants to know how often you corrected people about proper firearms nomenclature by yelling at the TV today.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 07:04:11 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 02, 2017, 06:48:19 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 04:22:53 PM
Pretty much. Elevated position + 100 to 200 meters + Mass target tightly grouped + Automatic rifle = High causality count. (Don't have to be expert with the rifle either.)

Also see the U of T tower shooter in 1966

Languish wants to know how often you corrected people about proper firearms nomenclature by yelling at the TV today.

I have watched none of it. Not really interested.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 07:06:24 PM
Read a bit though off cnn. Meh.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Habbaku on October 02, 2017, 07:15:17 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 02, 2017, 06:48:19 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 04:22:53 PM
Pretty much. Elevated position + 100 to 200 meters + Mass target tightly grouped + Automatic rifle = High causality count. (Don't have to be expert with the rifle either.)

Also see the U of T tower shooter in 1966

Languish wants to know how often you corrected people about proper firearms nomenclature by yelling at the TV today.

I've already rolled my eyes a couple of times at people ranting about silencer legislation.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 07:41:23 PM
Watch and learn languish. Bump fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7DTjSla-O8
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 07:46:45 PM
Here you go

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/category/parts-and-accessories/parts-by-gun-model/ar-15/stocks/bump-fire-stocks.do
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 07:51:30 PM
Too cheap for BF, no problem

http://twozprecision.com/product/gatcrank-15/
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 02, 2017, 08:03:48 PM
Fully auto is illegal isn't it?  Is the hottie breaking the law and filming it?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Ed Anger on October 02, 2017, 08:05:35 PM
Chick firing guns? I'll be in my bunk. BRB
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 08:07:20 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 02, 2017, 08:03:48 PM
Fully auto is illegal isn't it?  Is the hottie breaking the law and filming it?

Here's a good write up

https://www.thetrace.org/2015/11/ar-15-bump-fire-legal/

Quote

Though an AR-15 fitted with a Bump Fire stock can fire hundreds of rounds per minute, the ATF found the add-on doesn't turn a semiautomatic rifle into a machine gun. The devices are just this side of legal.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 02, 2017, 08:31:13 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 07:04:11 PM
I have watched none of it. Not really interested.

Of course you haven't.  Now, if his name were Ay-Sheet mah-Drawarz, we'd be chatting into the night about who we'd bomb in retaliation in the fight against Radical Islamic TerrorismTM

But the usual crazy white guy?  Boor-ring.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Berkut on October 02, 2017, 08:35:02 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 07:41:23 PM
Watch and learn languish. Bump fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7DTjSla-O8


What is the point of that?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 02, 2017, 08:36:26 PM
To reach orgasm.  Duh.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Ed Anger on October 02, 2017, 08:44:03 PM
I liked the chick. Didn't notice a gun.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on October 02, 2017, 08:47:22 PM
I think some gun enthusiasts may have over-corrected just a bit.  It's one thing to regard guns as a necessary evil, but they have gone on to regard them as a good thing, and more powerful guns as an even better thing.  It's as if they have forgotten that guns are designed to take lives efficiently.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HVC on October 02, 2017, 08:49:53 PM
Collectors always have their weird off shoots. It's just that it's a lot harder to kill someone with counters.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Ed Anger on October 02, 2017, 08:52:32 PM
Quote from: HVC on October 02, 2017, 08:49:53 PM
Collectors always have their weird off shoots. It's just that it's a lot harder to kill someone with counters.

Unpunched counter sheets hurt.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on October 02, 2017, 08:54:05 PM
Fun fact--wargame counter look like plastique to airport X-ray machines.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HVC on October 02, 2017, 08:55:01 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 02, 2017, 08:52:32 PM
Quote from: HVC on October 02, 2017, 08:49:53 PM
Collectors always have their weird off shoots. It's just that it's a lot harder to kill someone with counters.

Unpunched counter sheets hurt.

I just had the image of CdM on a balcony throwing  counters and laughing maniacaly. It made me laugh. I'm a bad person.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on October 02, 2017, 08:58:49 PM
Quote from: HVC on October 02, 2017, 08:55:01 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 02, 2017, 08:52:32 PM
Quote from: HVC on October 02, 2017, 08:49:53 PM
Collectors always have their weird off shoots. It's just that it's a lot harder to kill someone with counters.

Unpunched counter sheets hurt.

I just had the image of CdM on a balcony throwing  counters and laughing maniacaly. It made me laugh. I'm a bad person.

From the 32nd floor he might even be able to kill someone that way.

Dropping shrink-wrapped copies of Second Front just from the 2nd floor would probably kill someone if it hit them in the head.  I think the thing weighed about 50 pounds (ok, that's an exaggeration, but it was heavy).
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Monoriu on October 02, 2017, 09:10:07 PM
I am done feeling sad and angry about this sort of thing.  Wake me up when you guys are ready to adopt sane gun laws.  Until then, this kind of thing will occur again and again. 
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 02, 2017, 10:00:41 PM
Quote from: HVC on October 02, 2017, 08:55:01 PM
I just had the image of CdM on a balcony throwing  counters and laughing maniacaly. It made me laugh. I'm a bad person.

You are a bad person.  What a senseless waste of counters.  Cunt.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 02, 2017, 10:06:06 PM
QuoteNRA Says Mass Shootings Just The Unfortunate Price Of Protecting People's Freedom To Commit Mass Shootings

FAIRFAX, VA—In the aftermath of a shooting in Las Vegas that left at least 58 people dead and more than 500 wounded, National Rifle Association officials said Monday that mass shootings are just the unfortunate price of protecting people's freedom to commit mass shootings. "What happened in Las Vegas is a horrific tragedy, but it's sadly the inevitable cost of safeguarding the rights of Americans to perpetrate such horrific tragedies," said NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre, adding that defending the constitutional right to commit mass murder meant accepting that mass murders were occasionally going to happen. "As saddened as we are today, we must always remember that preserving our sacred liberty to go on violent rampages is far more important than any one violent rampage." LaPierre went on to say that legislation like recent state laws permitting guns on college campuses and an upcoming House bill that would relax restrictions on the purchase of gun silencers were vital to ensuring people had more freedom to commit much deadlier massacres, even if they sometimes lead to much deadlier massacres.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 10:07:21 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 02, 2017, 08:35:02 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 07:41:23 PM
Watch and learn languish. Bump fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7DTjSla-O8


What is the point of that?

Absolutely nothing that is needed in civilian hands. The ATF should have said fuck no
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 02, 2017, 10:13:33 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 10:07:21 PM
The ATF should have said fuck no

lulz, like they have any pull anymore.  Congress, the gun lobby and the Fox-Industrial Complex have spent the last 30 years denuding that agency to the point it's afraid of its own shadow.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 10:14:57 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 02, 2017, 08:31:13 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 07:04:11 PM
I have watched none of it. Not really interested.

Of course you haven't.  Now, if his name were Ay-Sheet mah-Drawarz, we'd be chatting into the night about who we'd bomb in retaliation in the fight against Radical Islamic TerrorismTM

But the usual crazy white guy?  Boor-ring.

More or less waiting on facts and not media hysteria.  But yes, crackers be crackin'
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 10:15:46 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 02, 2017, 10:13:33 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 10:07:21 PM
The ATF should have said fuck no

lulz, like they have any pull anymore.  Congress, the gun lobby and the Fox-Industrial Complex have spent the last 30 years denuding that agency to the point it's afraid of its own shadow.

Good news is silencers may be legal.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 02, 2017, 10:18:06 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 10:15:46 PM
Good news is silencers may be legal.

What could happen.

I see that stun guns are becoming vogue again in some states.  I guess women forgot what it was like to get zapped and stuffed in the trunk of a car.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Barrister on October 02, 2017, 10:33:46 PM
Well the Vegas shooting has certainly overshadowed Edmonton's little wanna-be ISIS terrorist.  He only attempted to kill 5 people.

His first appearance in court is tomorrow.  But today I had a reporter from Reuters show up in court asking if he was going to be there.

I'm not in docket court tomorrow, but I think I might just go for the circus.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 10:38:12 PM
This dude has some sack.

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/22221773_10212668568762773_1307730259429361522_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=bdfefd07f0b838f40f4e824942256d5a&oe=5A820AA7
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HVC on October 02, 2017, 10:39:18 PM
When the shooting would restart he'd duck down.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Monoriu on October 02, 2017, 10:48:07 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 02, 2017, 10:38:12 PM
This dude has some sack.

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/22221773_10212668568762773_1307730259429361522_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoibCJ9&oh=bdfefd07f0b838f40f4e824942256d5a&oe=5A820AA7

The bystanders next to him would have him to thank for the attention that he attracted. 
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 03, 2017, 11:02:38 PM

:bleeding:

Trump - What happened is in many ways a miracle
https://www.google.co.kr/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-politics/wp/2017/10/03/trump-on-response-to-las-vegas-shooting-what-happened-is-in-many-ways-a-miracle/ :sleep:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on October 04, 2017, 07:46:43 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/04/lone-wolf-white-terrorist-las-vegas

QuoteWhat's a 'lone wolf'? It's the special name we give white terrorists

We have a double standard in the United States when it comes to talking about terrorism. The label is reserved almost exclusively for when we're talking about Muslims.

Consider Stephen Craig Paddock, the shooter in Sunday's massacre in Las Vegas. Is he a terrorist? Well, the authorities aren't calling him one, at least not yet.

This is all the more remarkable because Paddock's actions clearly fit the statutory definition of terrorism in Nevada. That state's law defines terrorism as "any act that involves the use or attempted use of sabotage, coercion or violence which is intended to cause great bodily harm or death to the general population".

Stephen Craig Paddock shot and killed at least 59 people and injured more than 500 others. If that doesn't qualify as a textbook definition of Nevada's terrorism law, I don't know what does.

Yet, when asked at a press conference in Las Vegas if the shooting was an act of terrorism, Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo replied: "No. Not at this point. We believe it's a local individual. He resides here locally," suggesting that all terrorism is foreign in nature.

...
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Berkut on October 04, 2017, 08:14:50 AM
Yes, lets play the race card. If it was a black guy who did this, we would certainly call it terrorism, right?

White people are desperate to protect the reputation of white mass murderers. It's ever so important to us, so we create cool names for them we would never apply to some not white guy.

This is pretty fucking simple. "Terrorism" is a word with an actual meaning (and its Nevada state legal definition is largely irrelevant to that accepted meaning). It's not like calling this terrorism or not has any kind of emotional relevance to white people. I would have no issue calling it terrorism if I thought there was some reason to think his motives were in fact those that define terrorism.

I don't even know why anyone would think that calling some particular act "terrorism" or not has any particular emotive weight such that white people would want to avoid doing so if they can. Would it make us all feel better or worse if this was called terrorism instead of random act of extreme violence?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on October 04, 2017, 08:22:54 AM
Berkut, your point would only hold water if people like Timothy McVay, were considered terrorists.  Or if Dr Henry Bello was NOT considered a terrorist.   But, as Prof Bayoumi points out, he has a double standard, so doesn't believe either of those situations are true.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on October 04, 2017, 09:03:22 AM
Oh, and looking up the full statute defining terrorism in Nevada, one can see that it is incredibly broad:

QuoteNRS 202.4415  "Act of terrorism" defined.
      1.  "Act of terrorism" means any act that involves the use or attempted use of sabotage, coercion or violence which is intended to:
      (a) Cause great bodily harm or death to the general population; or
      (b) Cause substantial destruction, contamination or impairment of:
             (1) Any building or infrastructure, communications, transportation, utilities or services; or
             (2) Any natural resource or the environment.
      2.  As used in this section, "coercion" does not include an act of civil disobedience.

So, if a bank robber takes hostages when her plan goes awry, and causes the bank to be shut down and the street outside cordoned off, this is an act of terrorism ("the use ... of ... coercion or violence which is intended to [c]ause substantial... impairment of ... [a]ny building [or]...  transportation...")

The difference between use of violence for political purposes and other uses of violence is worth preserving.  There are definitely cases where the failure to classify terrorism as terrorism is inexplicable (like the case of Dylan Roof in Charleston, as clear a case of terrorism as one could ask for, or James Fields, Jr, in Charlottesville, not charged with terrorism despite the fact that he didn't even know his murder victim), but there are also cases where charges of terrorism are equally inexplicable (as in this case, based on what is known so far, or Micah Johnson in Dallas, who was clearly interested in killing police officers for its own sake).  If the perp is not concerned with who the victims are, only the message, then it is terrorism.  Otherwise, it isn't.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on October 04, 2017, 09:57:52 AM
It seems to me like what makes something a terrorist act is the intention to advance some agenda by means of terrorizing people.  The main goal of terrorist act is not to cause casualties, but to affect behavior of people.  Not all mass casualty crimes fit this, and this one doesn't appear to.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Oexmelin on October 04, 2017, 09:58:55 AM
The problem being that "for political purposes" makes the definition much more plastic than what you seem to allow from the moment the violence is not simply instrumental for a clear material goal (i.e., bank robbery). Terrorism may "mean something", but calls such as these are also attempt to signify there is a clear political effect to these shootings that is not adequately captured by either media tone, and legal response. I think it is difficult to deny the difference in tone in media between mass white shooters, mass "brown" shooters, and even black victims of cops. That some want to pin the terrorism label on the predominantly white mass shooters is an attempt to call attention to such imbalance.

Mass shootings by white people, in the US, happen with regularity, yet few people seem willing to carve out a new legal status for them that would answer their regularity, and their effects - yet we see travel bans and deportations being proposed out of the fear of terrorism. On that, the Onion is right: it is the perpetration of mass shootings that have become normalized in political discourse, while answers to them are labelled "undue politicizing", while the perpetration of terrorism is always shocking, and its political and State-response, normalized. 
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Barrister on October 04, 2017, 10:03:34 AM
Our home-grown wanna-be terrorist (Five counts of Attempted murder.  Now what is that?  Can you win a Nobel prize for attempted chemistry?) is being called a lone wolf because, though ISIS inspired, he appears to have no ties to a wider terrorist network.  And he's somali.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on October 04, 2017, 10:10:39 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 04, 2017, 09:58:55 AM
The problem being that "for political purposes" makes the definition much more plastic than what you seem to allow from the moment the violence is not simply instrumental for a clear material goal (i.e., bank robbery). Terrorism may "mean something", but calls such as these are also attempt to signify there is a clear political effect to these shootings that is not adequately captured by either media tone, and legal response. I think it is difficult to deny the difference in tone in media between mass white shooters, mass "brown" shooters, and even black victims of cops. That some want to pin the terrorism label on the predominantly white mass shooters is an attempt to call attention to such imbalance.

Mass shootings by white people, in the US, happen with regularity, yet few people seem willing to carve out a new legal status for them that would answer their regularity, and their effects - yet we see travel bans and deportations being proposed out of the fear of terrorism. On that, the Onion is right: it is the perpetration of mass shootings that have become normalized in political discourse, while answers to them are labelled "undue politicizing", while the perpetration of terrorism is always shocking, and its political and State-response, normalized.
Sometimes a definition needs to be plastic in order to make sense.  If you call every mass casualty event a terrorist attack, then what's the point of having a separate term for a mass casualty attack?

I do agree that we have yet another example of hypocrisy with how we're dealing with mass shootings versus terrorism.  Somebody shoots 500 people, it's just the price of freedom.  Let's not over-react.  Somebody shoots up a couple of dozen of people as a terrorist attack, and it's "OMG, OMG, OMG, people are fearful, we have to do SOMETHING!!!".
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on October 04, 2017, 10:18:20 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2017, 07:46:43 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/04/lone-wolf-white-terrorist-las-vegas

QuoteWhat's a 'lone wolf'? It's the special name we give white terrorists

We have a double standard in the United States when it comes to talking about terrorism. The label is reserved almost exclusively for when we're talking about Muslims.

Consider Stephen Craig Paddock, the shooter in Sunday's massacre in Las Vegas. Is he a terrorist? Well, the authorities aren't calling him one, at least not yet.

This is all the more remarkable because Paddock's actions clearly fit the statutory definition of terrorism in Nevada. That state's law defines terrorism as "any act that involves the use or attempted use of sabotage, coercion or violence which is intended to cause great bodily harm or death to the general population".

Stephen Craig Paddock shot and killed at least 59 people and injured more than 500 others. If that doesn't qualify as a textbook definition of Nevada's terrorism law, I don't know what does.

Yet, when asked at a press conference in Las Vegas if the shooting was an act of terrorism, Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo replied: "No. Not at this point. We believe it's a local individual. He resides here locally," suggesting that all terrorism is foreign in nature.

...
that's false.  Lone wolf has been used for many muslims terrorism acts when committed alone.  We generally reserve "terrorisme" accusations for when there's a clear link between a terrorist organization and the person committing the crimes.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on October 04, 2017, 10:25:18 AM
Quote from: Oexmelin on October 04, 2017, 09:58:55 AM
The problem being that "for political purposes" makes the definition much more plastic than what you seem to allow from the moment the violence is not simply instrumental for a clear material goal (i.e., bank robbery). Terrorism may "mean something", but calls such as these are also attempt to signify there is a clear political effect to these shootings that is not adequately captured by either media tone, and legal response. I think it is difficult to deny the difference in tone in media between mass white shooters, mass "brown" shooters, and even black victims of cops. That some want to pin the terrorism label on the predominantly white mass shooters is an attempt to call attention to such imbalance.

Mass shootings by white people, in the US, happen with regularity, yet few people seem willing to carve out a new legal status for them that would answer their regularity, and their effects - yet we see travel bans and deportations being proposed out of the fear of terrorism. On that, the Onion is right: it is the perpetration of mass shootings that have become normalized in political discourse, while answers to them are labelled "undue politicizing", while the perpetration of terrorism is always shocking, and its political and State-response, normalized. 


Terrorism involves a political motivation.  You want your target(s) to change behavior, to change policies, to change laws.

IRA were whites and christians, they were described as terrorists.
The Basques were whites and christians, they were described as terrorists.
There's a clear political motivation there.

The mafia bomb campaign wasn't branded as terrorism, nor were the Columbians of Pablo Escobar while they were attacking judges and politicians.  But you could argue that they were terrorists, aiming to a change in governmental policy.  But imho, it's more of a general criminal activity, they do not want the laws to change so much for everyone as they want the laws to change for them: they want to be left alone and they hope to intimidate anyone attacking their activities.  They react the same toward competition than toward law enforcement.

A man entering a kindergarden to shoot kids is not committing an act of terrorism.  A man entering a kindergarden to shoot kids while leaving a manifest at home saying how he hates kids, these horrible little things and our society is way too tolerant toward kids running amok in our streets is committing a terrorist act.  There's a political motivation absent in the first.

A road rage incident is not indicated of terrorist behavior.  Setting fire to a truck inside a tunnel while you protest against proposed changes to provincial work laws is an act of terrorism, even if no one is killed.

Bombing a pick up truck when no one is in it, or putting dynamite on an excavator so that it explodes on startup is a terrorist act because it aims at intimidating your targets into following your rules and the government turning a blind eye to it because they are too scared.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on October 04, 2017, 10:30:59 AM
Quote from: viper37 on October 04, 2017, 10:18:20 AM
that's false.  Lone wolf has been used for many muslims terrorism acts when committed alone.  We generally reserve "terrorisme" accusations for when there's a clear link between a terrorist organization and the person committing the crimes.

I think that it is mistaken to restrict terrorism to only those cases where there is a clear link between the perp and a terrorist organization (not that I am saying you are making more than an observation that it seems to be so).  Individuals like McVeigh and Roof didn't belong to terrorist organizations (as far as we know) but were clearly carrying out acts of terror.  The violence itself (and the public reaction to it) was their objective, not the specific people whom they killed.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 04, 2017, 10:31:57 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 04, 2017, 08:22:54 AM
Berkut, your point would only hold water if people like Timothy McVay, were considered terrorists. 

Is there any dispute about McVey being a terrorist?  That would be ridiculous.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on October 04, 2017, 10:35:13 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 04, 2017, 10:31:57 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 04, 2017, 08:22:54 AM
Berkut, your point would only hold water if people like Timothy McVay, were considered terrorists. 

Is there any dispute about McVey being a terrorist?  That would be ridiculous.

Is there any doubt that my comment was tongue-in-cheek? 
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 04, 2017, 10:41:53 AM
IMO a requirement of a some political program is unduly restrictive.  Or alternatively, one should not count out nihilism as a political motivation.  A serial killer who kills for the sake of killing (eg out of some mental urge) is not a terrorist, nor is someone who creates mayhem in order to facilitate a robbery.  But if one of the principal ends of the crime is to sow fear and terror in the general population  - as opposed to that being a collateral side effect - then in my book it's a terrorist attack.  So for example, Zodiac could be argued to be a terrorist, as opposed to Dahmer.  The facts still are coming in on Paddock but at first glance it looks like a terrorist attack to me.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: alfred russel on October 04, 2017, 11:04:15 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 04, 2017, 09:57:52 AM
It seems to me like what makes something a terrorist act is the intention to advance some agenda by means of terrorizing people.  The main goal of terrorist act is not to cause casualties, but to affect behavior of people.  Not all mass casualty crimes fit this, and this one doesn't appear to.

Should that remove ISIS from the list of terrorist organizations? My understanding is that their long term goal is to kill all us infidels, not bring us scare us into negotiating with them or something.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 04, 2017, 11:11:24 AM
Don't they want us to submit to Allah?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Barrister on October 04, 2017, 11:20:39 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 04, 2017, 11:04:15 AM
Quote from: DGuller on October 04, 2017, 09:57:52 AM
It seems to me like what makes something a terrorist act is the intention to advance some agenda by means of terrorizing people.  The main goal of terrorist act is not to cause casualties, but to affect behavior of people.  Not all mass casualty crimes fit this, and this one doesn't appear to.

Should that remove ISIS from the list of terrorist organizations? My understanding is that their long term goal is to kill all us infidels, not bring us scare us into negotiating with them or something.

No, ISIS is a classic terrorist organization.  They want to provoke the West into a disproportionate response, which while cause the Islamic world to rally behind ISIS and bring about the global caliphate.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: alfred russel on October 04, 2017, 11:32:50 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 04, 2017, 11:20:39 AM
No, ISIS is a classic terrorist organization.  They want to provoke the West into a disproportionate response, which while cause the Islamic world to rally behind ISIS and bring about the global caliphate.

If that is their goal, then I agree.

If their goal is to kill all infidels, then it sounds more like a mass murder organization.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Barrister on October 04, 2017, 11:51:00 AM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 04, 2017, 11:32:50 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 04, 2017, 11:20:39 AM
No, ISIS is a classic terrorist organization.  They want to provoke the West into a disproportionate response, which while cause the Islamic world to rally behind ISIS and bring about the global caliphate.

If that is their goal, then I agree.

If their goal is to kill all infidels, then it sounds more like a mass murder organization.

That's definitely their goal.  It also ties into their islamic millenialist views that doing so will also bring about the end times.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on October 04, 2017, 12:48:11 PM
Can anyone honestly say that if the guy's name was Abdul rather than Steve the President wouldn't be tweeting about terrorism and how the courts were harming America by stopping his Muslim ban?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 04, 2017, 12:53:12 PM
Assuming Abdul was from one of the affected countries that might be relevant. It would certainly be a nonsense response to domestic Steve.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on October 04, 2017, 01:25:35 PM
 First we had the Alexandria shooting, then this.  No one wants to say the obvious, but we need to cut with the PC bullshit and face facts. White guys in their mid-60s are a menace and we need to focus law enforcement resources on them now.  The PC crowd is going to whine about stereotyping.  But the malign combination of curmudgeonly bad temper, marksmanship experience, and lack of rhythm so typical of this demographic is deadly.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on October 04, 2017, 01:55:18 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 04, 2017, 10:41:53 AM
But if one of the principal ends of the crime is to sow fear and terror in the general population  - as opposed to that being a collateral side effect - then in my book it's a terrorist attack.  So for example, Zodiac could be argued to be a terrorist, as opposed to Dahmer.
As I said, I would not consider the actions of the Mafia in the 90s or that of Pablo Escobar campaign against judges to be terrorism.  Yet the goals were to create terror in the general population: "Look at me how powerful I am.  Let me do what I want, and I will leave you all alone".  It's a message to the population to elect the right kind of politicians, and to the cops to leave them alone otherwise they die.

QuoteThe facts still are coming in on Paddock but at first glance it looks like a terrorist attack to me.
I might be missing some facts here, because it seems similar to a serial killer in my case.  But Malthus gave us some study that made mass shooters and suicide terrorists really alike in their psychological profiles, so it's hard to determine.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 04, 2017, 01:59:41 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 04, 2017, 01:25:35 PM
First we had the Alexandria shooting, then this.  No one wants to say the obvious, but we need to cut with the PC bullshit and face facts. White guys in their mid-60s are a menace and we need to focus law enforcement resources on them now.  The PC crowd is going to whine about stereotyping.  But the malign combination of curmudgeonly bad temper, marksmanship experience, and lack of rhythm so typical of this demographic is deadly.

:huh:

Aren't you a white guy in his mid 60s?  :P
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on October 04, 2017, 02:08:42 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on October 04, 2017, 11:32:50 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 04, 2017, 11:20:39 AM
No, ISIS is a classic terrorist organization.  They want to provoke the West into a disproportionate response, which while cause the Islamic world to rally behind ISIS and bring about the global caliphate.

If that is their goal, then I agree.
Short-to-mid term goal.

QuoteIf their goal is to kill all infidels, then it sounds more like a mass murder organization.
Long term goal. They need the short-to-mid term goal to achieve that, i.e., more recruits and funding.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on October 04, 2017, 02:16:53 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 04, 2017, 12:53:12 PM
Assuming Abdul was from one of the affected countries that might be relevant. It would certainly be a nonsense response to domestic Steve.

It doesn't even have to be in the US for Trump to mention it like the London Bridge attack.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on October 04, 2017, 02:29:01 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 04, 2017, 10:35:13 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on October 04, 2017, 10:31:57 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 04, 2017, 08:22:54 AM
Berkut, your point would only hold water if people like Timothy McVay, were considered terrorists. 

Is there any dispute about McVey being a terrorist?  That would be ridiculous.

Is there any doubt that my comment was tongue-in-cheek? 

Seems odd to bring up the 90s as a rejoinder though I recognize for one as old as yourself, the 90s are but a  blink of an eye in the past.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on October 04, 2017, 05:02:34 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2017, 02:29:01 PM
Seems odd to bring up the 90s as a rejoinder though I recognize for one as old as yourself, the 90s are but a  blink of an eye in the past.

Seems odd to pretend that terrorism is a post-1990s phenomenon, but I recognize that someone as old as you has probably already forgotten what the '90s were like.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on October 04, 2017, 05:31:53 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 04, 2017, 05:02:34 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2017, 02:29:01 PM
Seems odd to bring up the 90s as a rejoinder though I recognize for one as old as yourself, the 90s are but a  blink of an eye in the past.

Seems odd to pretend that terrorism is a post-1990s phenomenon, but I recognize that someone as old as you has probably already forgotten what the '90s were like.

If you could actually provide some evidence as to why labels used in the mid-90s have a bearing on a discussion about the use of terminology 20 years later, maybe you'd have a leg to stand on.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on October 04, 2017, 08:03:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2017, 05:31:53 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 04, 2017, 05:02:34 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2017, 02:29:01 PM
Seems odd to bring up the 90s as a rejoinder though I recognize for one as old as yourself, the 90s are but a  blink of an eye in the past.

Seems odd to pretend that terrorism is a post-1990s phenomenon, but I recognize that someone as old as you has probably already forgotten what the '90s were like.

If you could actually provide some evidence as to why labels used in the mid-90s have a bearing on a discussion about the use of terminology 20 years later, maybe you'd have a leg to stand on.


"Homie don't play that".
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on October 04, 2017, 08:25:01 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 04, 2017, 12:48:11 PM
Can anyone honestly say that if the guy's name was Abdul rather than Steve the President wouldn't be tweeting about terrorism and how the courts were harming America by stopping his Muslim ban?

No doubt you're correct about the general shape of President Trump's response if the Las Vegas shooter had been named Abdul, but what does President Trump's response have to do with rational, informed discussion of this topic (or any other, for that matter)?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on October 04, 2017, 08:33:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2017, 05:31:53 PM
If you could actually provide some evidence as to why labels used in the mid-90s have a bearing on a discussion about the use of terminology 20 years later, maybe you'd have a leg to stand on.

Feel free to dismiss all the facts that don't line up with your narrative.  This 20-year cutoff for facts is yours, not the original author's.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on October 04, 2017, 08:36:31 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 04, 2017, 08:33:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2017, 05:31:53 PM
If you could actually provide some evidence as to why labels used in the mid-90s have a bearing on a discussion about the use of terminology 20 years later, maybe you'd have a leg to stand on.

Feel free to dismiss all the facts that don't line up with your narrative.  This 20-year cutoff for facts is yours, not the original author's.

Youngins, what can you do.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 05, 2017, 01:51:25 AM
Dude targeted aviation fuel tanks 1,100 feet from the concert site. If they'd gone up, would that have wiped out the crowd?

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/Las-Vegas-Strip-shooter-targeted-aviation-fuel-tanks-source-says/
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on October 05, 2017, 02:57:30 AM
How would they go up?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on October 05, 2017, 05:15:06 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 05, 2017, 02:57:30 AM
How would they go up?


You put the fuel in an airplane and the fuel goes up when the airplane takes off.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on October 05, 2017, 05:29:40 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 05, 2017, 05:15:06 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 05, 2017, 02:57:30 AM
How would they go up?


You put the fuel in an airplane and the fuel goes up when the airplane takes off.

Hospital? What is it?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Larch on October 05, 2017, 05:45:45 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 05, 2017, 01:51:25 AM
Dude targeted aviation fuel tanks 1,100 feet from the concert site. If they'd gone up, would that have wiped out the crowd?

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/Las-Vegas-Strip-shooter-targeted-aviation-fuel-tanks-source-says/

Fortunately, AS THE ARTICLE YOU QUOTE YOURSELF SAYS, jet fuel doesn't ignite easily and it was impossible that they'd have gone up.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 05, 2017, 08:02:02 AM
Quote from: The Larch on October 05, 2017, 05:45:45 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 05, 2017, 01:51:25 AM
Dude targeted aviation fuel tanks 1,100 feet from the concert site. If they'd gone up, would that have wiped out the crowd?

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/Las-Vegas-Strip-shooter-targeted-aviation-fuel-tanks-source-says/

Fortunately, AS THE ARTICLE YOU QUOTE YOURSELF SAYS, jet fuel doesn't ignite easily and it was impossible that they'd have gone up.

I took that to mean, unlikely but not impossible.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on October 05, 2017, 09:08:03 AM
Quote from: The Larch on October 05, 2017, 05:45:45 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 05, 2017, 01:51:25 AM
Dude targeted aviation fuel tanks 1,100 feet from the concert site. If they'd gone up, would that have wiped out the crowd?

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/Las-Vegas-Strip-shooter-targeted-aviation-fuel-tanks-source-says/

Fortunately, AS THE ARTICLE YOU QUOTE YOURSELF SAYS, jet fuel doesn't ignite easily and it was impossible that they'd have gone up.
Hollywood failed us again :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on October 05, 2017, 12:45:45 PM
Quote from: The Larch on October 05, 2017, 05:45:45 AM
Fortunately, AS THE ARTICLE YOU QUOTE YOURSELF SAYS, jet fuel doesn't ignite easily and it was impossible that they'd have gone up.

No one ever said that it was impossible that the fuel could have "gone up."  It would have been difficult to ignite in the absence of tracer rounds, and the tanks had fire suppression systems that would have prevented the ignition of fuel vapor in the tanks themselves (for longer than he could shoot at them, anyway), but it wasn't impossible to ignite fuel vapor outside the tanks if he could produce sufficient sparks with his shots.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on October 07, 2017, 10:08:55 AM
car rammed pedestrians in London, near the natural history musuem.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on October 07, 2017, 12:42:10 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 07, 2017, 10:08:55 AM
car rammed pedestrians in London, near the natural history musuem.

Road traffic accident apparently.

Not sure if it was Cromwell Rd (?) the main thru road, or Museum Rd (?) which is now a weird hybrid pedestrian area with some car access, that seems to confuse some people.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on October 07, 2017, 12:48:41 PM
BBC say it was in Exhibition Road, which, as you say, had some very expensive and confusing improvements made recently.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on October 07, 2017, 01:07:25 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 07, 2017, 12:48:41 PM
BBC say it was in Exhibition Road, which, as you say, had some very expensive and confusing improvements made recently.

:cool:

Ah, that's the right name, I guess I think of it as 'museum road' as it's got the science museum entrance on it and it links the V&A/Nat. History with Hyde Park.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 08, 2017, 03:22:29 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 07, 2017, 12:48:41 PM
BBC say it was in Exhibition Road, which, as you say, had some very expensive and confusing improvements made recently.

How are they confusing?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on October 08, 2017, 03:37:10 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 08, 2017, 03:22:29 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on October 07, 2017, 12:48:41 PM
BBC say it was in Exhibition Road, which, as you say, had some very expensive and confusing improvements made recently.

How are they confusing?

Sometimes the Daily Mail has its uses :

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2094939/Britains-longest-clutter-free-street-unveiled-make-things-SAFER.html


This sort of thing has been very successful in the Netherlands. I think the theory is that because of the confusion the driver will slow down and take things carefully. This relies on the driver not being a moron of course.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on October 08, 2017, 09:04:19 AM
Quote from: mongers on October 07, 2017, 12:42:10 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 07, 2017, 10:08:55 AM
car rammed pedestrians in London, near the natural history musuem.

Road traffic accident apparently.

Not sure if it was Cromwell Rd (?) the main thru road, or Museum Rd (?) which is now a weird hybrid pedestrian area with some car access, that seems to confuse some people.


So many disappointed Islamophobes. :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 08, 2017, 09:07:18 AM
Somebody had a pedestrian strike and the first thing people think of is Radical Islamic Motorists. 
Fuck, Asian chicks clip countless victims every fucking day, nobody's talking about eradicating Radical Vietnamese Nail Technicians.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on October 31, 2017, 04:00:04 PM
Possible attack ongoing in NYC. :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on October 31, 2017, 04:00:52 PM
http://nypost.com/2017/10/31/several-people-shot-in-downtown-manhattan/

QuoteBloodbath in downtown NYC after truck driver runs over pedestrians

A man in a pickup truck killed six people when he drove onto the West Side bike path in lower Manhattan Tuesday afternoon — and then shouted "Allahu Akbar" as he got out of the car with fake guns, police sources said.

The attack happened around 3:15 p.m., when a man in a flatbed pickup truck from Home Depot veered onto the bike path at West St., a few blocks north of Chambers St., police said.

The suspect, who was shot by police, then plowed his car into multiple people on the path, killing up to six and injuring several others, according to cops.

He continued driving south and hit another car, then got out and displayed "imitation firearms," police said.

The man then shouted, "Allahu Akbar," according to police sources.

Witnesses described a scene of terror, as people fled for safety.

"Jesus! A car just ran over 2 people and then crashed into a school bus. I see two dead bodies and citibikes on the floor destroyed," a Twitter user wrote.

"What happened was there was a car crash... he came out of one of the cars. He had two guns," a 14-year-old Stuyvesant HS student said. "We thought it was a Halloween thing. He started running around the highway. There was another guy in a green shirt that was chasing him around."
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 31, 2017, 06:38:13 PM
Apparently from Uz-becky-becky-stan-stan.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on October 31, 2017, 06:52:51 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 08, 2017, 09:07:18 AM
Somebody had a pedestrian strike and the first thing people think of is Radical Islamic Motorists. 
Fuck, Asian chicks clip countless victims every fucking day, nobody's talking about eradicating Radical Vietnamese Nail Technicians.

Your not too good at this anymore.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 31, 2017, 07:22:36 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 31, 2017, 06:52:51 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 08, 2017, 09:07:18 AM
Somebody had a pedestrian strike and the first thing people think of is Radical Islamic Motorists. 
Fuck, Asian chicks clip countless victims every fucking day, nobody's talking about eradicating Radical Vietnamese Nail Technicians.

Your not too good at this anymore.

That post was 3 weeks ago.  Would you feel better if they was pushed outta windows?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on October 31, 2017, 07:31:58 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 31, 2017, 07:22:36 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 31, 2017, 06:52:51 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 08, 2017, 09:07:18 AM
Somebody had a pedestrian strike and the first thing people think of is Radical Islamic Motorists. 
Fuck, Asian chicks clip countless victims every fucking day, nobody's talking about eradicating Radical Vietnamese Nail Technicians.

Your not too good at this anymore.

That post was 3 weeks ago.  Would you feel better if they was pushed outta windows?

I expect a high standard of sauciness with a sprinkle of sardonic wit from you. I shall not be subjected to half measures.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 31, 2017, 07:34:04 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 31, 2017, 07:31:58 PM
I expect a high standard of sauciness with a sprinkle of sardonic wit from you. I shall not be subjected to half measures.

Eat shit, base cop.  I just spent almost 2 hours in traffic on the way home.  Be glad I didn't hop a curb on your ass, Sailor Moon.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on October 31, 2017, 07:34:34 PM
Well, this will cheer Trump up.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on October 31, 2017, 07:35:57 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 31, 2017, 07:34:04 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on October 31, 2017, 07:31:58 PM
I expect a high standard of sauciness with a sprinkle of sardonic wit from you. I shall not be subjected to half measures.

Eat shit, base cop.  I just spent almost 2 hours in traffic on the way home.  Be glad I didn't hop a curb on your ass, Sailor Moon.

That's more like it.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on October 31, 2017, 07:36:55 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on October 31, 2017, 07:34:34 PM
Well, this will cheer Trump up.

Sadly, I agree.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on October 31, 2017, 09:33:55 PM
If only we had the political will to ban bike paths, we could prevent this sort of thing.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 31, 2017, 09:49:14 PM
QuoteDonald J. Trump‏Verified account
@realDonaldTrump

In NYC, looks like another attack by a very sick and deranged person. Law enforcement is following this closely. NOT IN THE U.S.A.!
2:30 PM - 31 Oct 2017

Yeah, Donald.  It was, in fact, in the USA.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on October 31, 2017, 09:55:58 PM
Fuck the Daily News;  thank Christ that, in times like this, we have the New York Post.  The attention to detail.  The ability to get to the heart of the matter.  The journalistic integrity.

QuoteMetro
terror on the streets of new york
Terror suspect was rude customer at local supermarket
By Joe Marino
October 31, 2017 | 10:20pm | Updated

The driver who mowed down people with a truck in Manhattan, killing 8, was known as an "erratic" customer who berated the cashiers at his local supermarket.

Sayfullo Saipov, 29, was notorious for his behavior at the Farm Boy Super Fresh Supermarket on Getty avenue in Paterson, NJ, the manager said.

"Every time he came here he was always erratic or arguing with the cashiers," she told The Post about the terror killer. "He would get angry very fast.... he would break the cans, dumb things."

The manager, who declined to give her name, said Saipov was very rude to the cashiers, and called them "uneducated."

"I feel like he was prejudice to the cashiers — whether they were covered or not in a hijab — he would belittle them," the manager said.

"He was talking good English, proper,   :lol: but he would call the cashiers dumb, uneducated — how they didn't know how to scan the items."

Saipov, who is in police custody and recovering from a gunshot wound, also regularly argued about the price of Canada Dry Ginger Ale.

"Soda was the problem. He would come here and buy soda," the manager said.

"He would give us a hard time on the 12-pack Canada Dry — if it was one price he would want his own price. It was always the soda, always a problem with the 12-pack of cans. Always a problem."
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 31, 2017, 09:59:09 PM
Terrorists are assholes? Who'd a thunk it?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on October 31, 2017, 11:40:17 PM
Hey, this happened just across the river from DG.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 01, 2017, 12:38:52 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on October 31, 2017, 09:49:14 PM
QuoteDonald J. Trump‏Verified account
@realDonaldTrump

In NYC, looks like another attack by a very sick and deranged person. Law enforcement is following this closely. NOT IN THE U.S.A.!
2:30 PM - 31 Oct 2017

Yeah, Donald.  It was, in fact, in the USA.

He doesn't own property on the west side anymore
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on November 01, 2017, 01:34:38 AM
So I assume the same people who insisted that stricter gun control would not stop attacks like Las Vegas, will insist that stricter immigration controls will not stop attacks like this?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on November 01, 2017, 08:57:56 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 01, 2017, 01:34:38 AM
So I assume the same people who insisted that stricter gun control would not stop attacks like Las Vegas, will insist that stricter immigration controls will not stop attacks like this?
Immigration already has a pretty strict no terrorists policy.
Giving more money to those monitoring and enforcing this policy is pretty uncontroversial
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: frunk on November 01, 2017, 09:00:15 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 01, 2017, 01:34:38 AM
So I assume the same people who insisted that stricter gun control would not stop attacks like Las Vegas, will insist that stricter immigration controls will not stop attacks like this?

Too soon, can't talk about dealing with the issue right after the incident.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on November 01, 2017, 09:29:36 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 01, 2017, 08:57:56 AM
Giving more money to those monitoring and enforcing this policy is pretty uncontroversial

Is it? :huh:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on November 01, 2017, 09:31:10 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 01, 2017, 09:29:36 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 01, 2017, 08:57:56 AM
Giving more money to those monitoring and enforcing this policy is pretty uncontroversial

Is it? :huh:

:secret:  This is Tyr you are responding to.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 01, 2017, 09:34:19 AM
Quote from: frunk on November 01, 2017, 09:00:15 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 01, 2017, 01:34:38 AM
So I assume the same people who insisted that stricter gun control would not stop attacks like Las Vegas, will insist that stricter immigration controls will not stop attacks like this?

Too soon, can't talk about dealing with the issue right after the incident.

Wolfe was right: "You can't go Home Depot again."

Luckily their stock recovered from yesterday.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on November 01, 2017, 10:11:37 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 01, 2017, 09:29:36 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 01, 2017, 08:57:56 AM
Giving more money to those monitoring and enforcing this policy is pretty uncontroversial

Is it? :huh:

It is?
Surprising if so. I'm sure I recall John oliver doing a bit on their trouble staffing.
In the UK that the border force is under funded is a pretty uncontroversial point.
Certainly it doesn't fall into a sort of smug left vs right, gun control vs ban Muslims, territory
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on November 01, 2017, 10:20:06 AM
Well that's not how it works in the US. It is most definitely a bone of contention between the left and right with the Republicans always on about increasing border security and extreme vetting.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on November 01, 2017, 11:42:21 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 01, 2017, 09:34:19 AM
Quote from: frunk on November 01, 2017, 09:00:15 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 01, 2017, 01:34:38 AM
So I assume the same people who insisted that stricter gun control would not stop attacks like Las Vegas, will insist that stricter immigration controls will not stop attacks like this?

Too soon, can't talk about dealing with the issue right after the incident.

Wolfe was right: "You can't go Home Depot again."

Luckily their stock recovered from yesterday.


Okay, that was good.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on November 01, 2017, 02:04:28 PM
Quote from: Tamas on November 01, 2017, 01:34:38 AM
So I assume the same people who insisted that stricter gun control would not stop attacks like Las Vegas, will insist that stricter immigration controls will not stop attacks like this?

I remain in favor of keeping our 2nd Amendment rights, and of allowing more immigrants into the country legally, if that's what you mean.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on November 01, 2017, 09:00:03 PM
I wish an industry was backing our other amendment rights.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 02, 2017, 01:37:54 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2017, 09:00:03 PM
I wish an industry was backing our other amendment rights.

The press is an industry.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on November 02, 2017, 05:12:36 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 01, 2017, 10:20:06 AM
Well that's not how it works in the US. It is most definitely a bone of contention between the left and right with the Republicans always on about increasing border security and extreme vetting.

I didn't say push the laws rightwards. I just said fund them better to enforce the existing laws more competently
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on November 02, 2017, 05:31:46 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 02, 2017, 05:12:36 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 01, 2017, 10:20:06 AM
Well that's not how it works in the US. It is most definitely a bone of contention between the left and right with the Republicans always on about increasing border security and extreme vetting.

I didn't say push the laws rightwards. I just said fund them better to enforce the existing laws more competently

Which those things are connected, no?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 02, 2017, 05:53:45 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 02, 2017, 05:12:36 AM
I didn't say push the laws rightwards. I just said fund them better to enforce the existing laws more competently

Being able to read them out loud would be a start.

https://youtu.be/vXHKAJjHFwg

It sounds nice, it's not nice. It's not good, it's not good, it hasn't been good.



Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 02, 2017, 11:08:58 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 02, 2017, 05:12:36 AM
I didn't say push the laws rightwards. I just said fund them better to enforce the existing laws more competently

Which laws are you referring to?  The ones that prohibit people who might commit terrorist acts from entering the country? :huh:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on November 02, 2017, 03:49:21 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 02, 2017, 01:37:54 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2017, 09:00:03 PM
I wish an industry was backing our other amendment rights.

The press is an industry.

True and they have done a pretty decent job with that one. Anybody making money off of the fourth amendment?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on November 02, 2017, 04:48:15 PM
Quote from: Valmy on November 02, 2017, 03:49:21 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 02, 2017, 01:37:54 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2017, 09:00:03 PM
I wish an industry was backing our other amendment rights.

The press is an industry.

True and they have done a pretty decent job with that one. Anybody making money off of the fourth amendment?

Lawyers.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Liep on November 05, 2017, 03:46:54 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41880511

:(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 05, 2017, 05:37:28 PM
The gunman identified as Devin P. Kelly by two anonymous police officers.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2017, 05:46:26 PM
Quote from: Liep on November 05, 2017, 03:46:54 PM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41880511

:(

Sorry, wrong thread.  Terrorism is only committed by Radical Islamic TerroristsTM (see: People, brown and Americans, Not Real). 

QuoteDonald J. Trump‏Verified account
@realDonaldTrump

May God be w/ the people of Sutherland Springs, Texas. The FBI & law enforcement are on the scene. I am monitoring the situation from Japan.
12:06 PM - 5 Nov 2017

Whew.  I know I feel better.


Edit: 
QuoteMay God be w/ the people of Sutherland Springs

lulz
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on November 05, 2017, 05:56:42 PM
Sounds like nearly every worshipper in the church was killed or wounded by this terrorist (dark skin/muslim) or nutter (white).
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on November 05, 2017, 06:40:18 PM
What the fuck does skin color have to do with this?  The last thing we need now is racist assholes starting to draw conclusions based on pigmentation.   Pigmentation doesn't kill people, bullets do.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2017, 06:48:49 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 05, 2017, 06:40:18 PM
What the fuck does skin color have to do with this?  The last thing we need now is racist assholes starting to draw conclusions based on pigmentation.   Pigmentation doesn't kill people, bullets do.

Leave it to you to politicize this event over pigmentation so soon.  Hopes and prayers.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Kleves on November 05, 2017, 06:59:00 PM
Derpish white guy, as per usual.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on November 05, 2017, 07:24:12 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2017, 06:48:49 PM
Quote from: grumbler on November 05, 2017, 06:40:18 PM
What the fuck does skin color have to do with this?  The last thing we need now is racist assholes starting to draw conclusions based on pigmentation.   Pigmentation doesn't kill people, bullets do.

Leave it to you to politicize this event over pigmentation so soon.  Hopes and prayers.

Reading comprehension:  FAILED 

Too bad, too.  You had potential, kid.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2017, 07:28:10 PM
I'm sure everything will be all white in the end.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on November 05, 2017, 07:47:42 PM
Quote from: Kleves on November 05, 2017, 06:59:00 PM
Derpish white guy, as per usual.

Not heard that before, what does it mean?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2017, 07:54:42 PM
Loose reference to the Whirling Derpishes. 
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on November 05, 2017, 07:59:02 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2017, 07:54:42 PM
Loose reference to the Whirling Derpishes.

Spun off by the centripetal force? :unsure:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2017, 08:02:13 PM
Aaaaaand that'll be enough of that, young man.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on November 05, 2017, 08:05:58 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on November 05, 2017, 08:02:13 PM
Aaaaaand that'll be enough of that, young man.

:D
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on November 05, 2017, 11:10:36 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 05, 2017, 05:37:28 PM
The gunman identified as Devin P. Kelly by two anonymous police officers.

My first thought was, "The guy who created Picket Fences and The Practice?".  But that's David E. Kelley.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 06, 2017, 12:52:33 AM
QuoteFew details were immediately available about Kelley, and attempts to reach his family were unsuccessful Sunday. Kelley had at one point been in the military, enlisting in 2010 and serving as a logistical readiness airman stationed at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, according to Air Force spokeswoman Ann Stefanek.

He was court-martialed in 2012 and sentenced to a year in military prison for assaulting his spouse and child, she said. He was reduced in rank and released with a bad conduct discharge in 2014.


Alrighty then.  Another one of those.  #RadicalVeteranTerrorism

[email protected]
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on November 06, 2017, 07:12:07 PM
Oddly enough Samantha Bee had a segment about how research had shown domestic violence was often a common thread among these white male shooters and that rarely were laws against gun ownership for domestic abusers being enforced.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/talalansari/air-force-kelley?utm_term=.nmv78Oar4#.ceK2BEQ5e

QuoteAir Force Didn't Register The Church Shooter's Domestic Violence Conviction In A Firearms Database

The Air Force on Monday said it failed to alert federal authorities to Texas church shooter Devin Patrick Kelley's 2012 domestic violence conviction, which could have prevented him from purchasing the firearm he used to massacre 26 people on Sunday night.

"Kelley was convicted by a general court martial on two charges of domestic assault against his wife and step-son under Article 128 of the Uniformed Code of Military Justice," the Air Force said in a statement. "Initial information indicates that Kelley's domestic violence offense was not entered into the National Criminal Information Center database by the Holloman Air Force Base Office of Special Investigation."

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) database is an FBI-run government agency responsible for "saving lives and protecting people from harm—by not letting guns fall into the wrong hands," according to the agency.

The revelation was a moment of clarity amid conflicting information concerning how, and if, Kelley was legally allowed to purchase firearms. Police said they found a Ruger AR-556 rifle near him and he had a Glock 9 millimeter and a Ruger .22 in his car.

...

Sam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBuKbe40uWM
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on November 07, 2017, 02:42:39 PM
The victims need to go after the govmint
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 07, 2017, 03:19:38 PM
Heard on NPR that the shooter was denied a concealed carry permit in Texas, which, according to the reporter is harder to acquire than generally believed.

I'm not clear on concealed carry.  If you don't have a cc permit, can you carry openly, meaning concealment is a special privilege?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 07, 2017, 04:34:48 PM
Concealment is teh uber.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on November 07, 2017, 05:51:56 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 07, 2017, 03:19:38 PM
Heard on NPR that the shooter was denied a concealed carry permit in Texas, which, according to the reporter is harder to acquire than generally believed.

I'm not clear on concealed carry.  If you don't have a cc permit, can you carry openly, meaning concealment is a special privilege?

Generally speaking, yes, but if you're planning on carrying, you need to check the law in your state.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Oexmelin on November 14, 2017, 03:45:53 PM
American Mass Shooting of the Day:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rancho-tehama-school-shooting-elementary-students-hospitalized-following-deadly-calif-shootings-officials/

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: derspiess on November 14, 2017, 04:34:52 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 07, 2017, 03:19:38 PM
Heard on NPR that the shooter was denied a concealed carry permit in Texas, which, according to the reporter is harder to acquire than generally believed.

I'm not clear on concealed carry.  If you don't have a cc permit, can you carry openly, meaning concealment is a special privilege?

Depends on the state, but generally yes.  A handful of states now allow concealed carry without a permit, and I think in some states and/or localities you can't open carry or need a permit to do so.

http://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-laws/policy-areas/guns-in-public/open-carry/
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on November 24, 2017, 09:06:04 AM
'I'm an Islamic fundamentalist who thinks that Egyptian society is too secular. How do I go about changing this?'

QuoteEgypt mosque attack: At least 155 killed in Sinai
Suspected militants have launched a bomb and gun attack on a mosque in Egypt's North Sinai province, killing 155 people, state media report.
Witnesses say the al-Rawda mosque in the town of Bir al-Abed, near al-Arish, was targeted during Friday prayers.
Local police said men in four off-road vehicles opened fire on worshippers, AP reported.
Egypt has been fighting an Islamist insurgency in the region, which has intensified since 2013.
There have been regular attacks blamed on militants on the Sinai peninsula, but this is the deadliest assault of its kind.
Pictures from the scene show rows of bloodied victims inside the mosque. More than 100 people were also wounded, reports say.

One report said the target appeared to be supporters of the security forces who were praying at the mosque.
President Abdul Fattah al-Sisi is to meet security officials to discuss the incident, Egypt's private Extra News TV reported.

It is not yet known who was behind Friday's attack.
Jihadist militants have been waging an insurgency in recent years, stepping up attacks after Egypt's military overthrew Islamist President Mohammed Morsi in July 2013.
Hundreds of police, soldiers and civilians have been killed since then, mostly in attacks carried out by Sinai Province group, which is affiliated to so-called Islamic State (IS).
In September, at least 18 policemen were killed in an attack on a convoy near al-Arish by militants affiliated with IS.
The jihadists have also killed dozens of people in attacks targeting Egypt's Coptic Christian minority elsewhere in the country, and claimed they planted the bomb that brought down a Russian plane carrying tourists in Sinai in 2015, killing 224 people on board.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42110223 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42110223)

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on November 24, 2017, 01:22:59 PM
Well nothing turns out to have occurred in central London tonight but for a bit I was barred from leaving my office (as well as other shops were shuttered) and people were screaming and running down the street.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on November 24, 2017, 01:49:06 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 24, 2017, 01:22:59 PM
Well nothing turns out to have occurred in central London tonight but for a bit I was barred from leaving my office (as well as other shops were shuttered) and people were screaming and running down the street.

fake news report that Trump was coming?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on November 24, 2017, 01:57:59 PM
Claims of gunshots. Happened a few months back (but without screaming) when people thought there was a bomb explosion and evacuated. In that instance was a person on the tracks being hit by a train.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on November 24, 2017, 05:33:53 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 24, 2017, 01:57:59 PM
Claims of gunshots. Happened a few months back (but without screaming) when people thought there was a bomb explosion and evacuated. In that instance was a person on the tracks being hit by a train.

So blind panic?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on November 24, 2017, 06:31:39 PM
Ah apparently something did happen this time that set it off, as well:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/nov/24/oxford-circus-police-attend-tube-incident

QuoteAn altercation between two men appears to have triggered the outbreak of mass panic in London on one of the busiest shopping days of the year, leading to people fleeing in fear, armed police being deployed and a section of the West End being evacuated.

British Transport Police issued a CCTV appeal for information about two men believed to be involved in a fight in Oxford Circus tube station on Friday afternoon as part of their inquiries into the cause of the panic.

Nine people were injured as hundreds ran to escape what they believed to be an attack on Friday evening, only to find it was a false alarm. The reaction was a sign of just how jittery many have become at the end of a year in which the capital and Manchester have been targeted by five terrorist attacks.

Sophia Smith, a witness to the fight, told the Guardian an altercation on a Victoria line platform panicked travellers and caused people to start running.

"Young boys with a few girls were attacking each other and everyone screamed and began to run," she said. "I escaped through the exit along with hundreds of other people and some women were on the floor and shoes were falling off and shopping bags. It was absolutely terrifying."

The incident began just after 4.30pm and centred on the tube station, where a number of passengers began to flee amid rumours that a gun had been fired.

As they fled, so did other passengers inside the station. As the crowds spilled out on to Oxford Street, hundreds of Christmas shoppers also started to run.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on November 24, 2017, 06:34:19 PM
On the mosque, I think I saw 235 now. :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Iormlund on November 25, 2017, 04:05:24 AM
Guess who departs for Egypt tomorrow? Even my boss called me to tell me to be careful.   :lol:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on November 25, 2017, 04:34:16 AM
Jesus this London mess. So many were quick to scream about an Islamic extremist attack. Really shows the true problem isn't the terrorists themselves.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on November 25, 2017, 05:26:41 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 25, 2017, 04:34:16 AM
Jesus this London mess. So many were quick to scream about an Islamic extremist attack. Really shows the true problem isn't the terrorists themselves.

Most of the tweets I saw at the time were about gunshots. Very, very few saying anything Islamic (like truck running over people).
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on November 25, 2017, 06:15:08 AM
The panic attack in London is very disturbing. The tube is often grossly overcrowded, panics like this could easily cause many deaths.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on November 25, 2017, 06:52:37 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 25, 2017, 05:26:41 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 25, 2017, 04:34:16 AM
Jesus this London mess. So many were quick to scream about an Islamic extremist attack. Really shows the true problem isn't the terrorists themselves.

Most of the tweets I saw at the time were about gunshots. Very, very few saying anything Islamic (like truck running over people).

I am quite certain people didn't panic because they thought it was two gangsters shooting at each other.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on November 25, 2017, 07:36:41 AM
Quote from: Tamas on November 25, 2017, 06:52:37 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 25, 2017, 05:26:41 AM
Quote from: Tyr on November 25, 2017, 04:34:16 AM
Jesus this London mess. So many were quick to scream about an Islamic extremist attack. Really shows the true problem isn't the terrorists themselves.

Most of the tweets I saw at the time were about gunshots. Very, very few saying anything Islamic (like truck running over people).

I am quite certain people didn't panic because they thought it was two gangsters shooting at each other.

Argh. People might have initially fled because they thought a shooting was occurring in the tube station. Then it started a cascade as all the tourists out and about on Oxford Street, remembering it was a busy and crowded day, thought when they saw people running that some sort of terrorist activity was going down.

So sure, terrorism may have been on people's minds but it wasn't the most common thing being said at the time.  Also fwiw, if I see people running fearfully, I'd be running to without needing to think about why I should do so.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on November 25, 2017, 10:08:04 AM
The death toll in the mosque attack in Egypt now exceeds 300 and Egyptian officials say that the attackers were IS.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-42122809


Very hard to see this as anything more than complete nihilism.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on November 25, 2017, 10:14:23 AM
Sufis are quiet, peaceful and educated aesthetes.   Which is why they have to die. 


Can't say you never had a ringside seat to a major war of religion, however.  That's always been other centuries.


Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on December 11, 2017, 08:31:45 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/11/new-york-police-explosion-reports-manhattan

QuoteNew York police respond to reports of explosion near Manhattan transport hub

Police 'responding to reports of explosion of unknown origin at 42nd Street and 8th Ave' and are evacuating the A, C and E subway lines at Port Authority

The New York police deparment said on Monday it was "responding to reports of an explosion of unknown origin at 42nd Street and 8th Ave in Manhattan".

"The A, C and E line are being evacuated at this time," a statement on Twitter said. "Info is preliminary. More when available."

A commuter who travelled through the Port Authority terminal on Monday morning told the Guardian the explosion happened 60 seconds after they exited the building. A police officer told the commuter it was "a guy with a pipe-bomb".

The fire department also said it was responding to the scene. In midtown, sirens could heard racing up Eighth Avenue.

Port Authority is a subway and bus hub serving commuters from New Jersey and around New York City. According to the Port Authority website, about 230,000 bus passengers use the terminal each day. Delays were reported on the subway lines affected and trains skipped the 42nd Street-Port Authority station.

The office of the New York mayor, Bill de Blasio, said: "The mayor has been briefed on the incident in midtown. The NYPD, FDNY and first responders are on the scene."

White House press secretary Sarah Sanders tweeted that Donald Trump had also been briefed on the situation.

There were no immediate reports of injuries.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on December 11, 2017, 09:55:50 AM
Ooh, I'll get to see plenty of assault rifles in the subway for the next couple of days.  :w00t:  I'll feel so safe this week.  :)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 11, 2017, 12:31:13 PM
Looks like a minor act, other than the high profile location.

I travel through that passageway a few times a week.  It's a logical target.  There is no security other than the turnstiles to enter the subway system.  It's a long narrow tunnel that is jam packed with people especially during commuter rush hour.  Someone with an effective weapon who knew what they were doing could have created real mayhem.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on December 11, 2017, 02:41:11 PM
Well, Trump will be disappointed.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Liep on January 07, 2018, 09:32:37 AM
Had to dig this up from page 4, a good sign? Anyhoo, one dead in Stockholm metro explosion. :(

Early reports say it was a hand grenade.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on January 07, 2018, 09:42:10 AM
Doesn't sound like terrorism. Vårby Gård is in some of the worst ghetto areas of Stockholm, and a grenade (?) lying around outside the subway is probably related to criminal gangs. But we'll see what the deal was.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on January 20, 2018, 05:01:56 PM
What does this tell us, if anything?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DStGGk8W4AApgIm.jpg)

I picked it up on twitter, I think from someone who was criticising it as it was being reposted by rightwing types.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 20, 2018, 05:14:30 PM
Orange is winning the productivity race.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on January 20, 2018, 05:20:03 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on January 20, 2018, 05:14:30 PM
Orange is winning the productivity race.

I think it's more a crimson than that.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on January 21, 2018, 03:40:13 AM
Man that is it for 16 years? Hardly seems worth all the fuss.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on January 21, 2018, 10:55:06 AM
Looks like we should be doing whatever we did in 2010.  No attacks, apparently (though the creator of this graphic might just have forgotten that the number that comes after 9 is 10, not 11).
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on January 21, 2018, 11:09:24 AM
Quote from: grumbler on January 21, 2018, 10:55:06 AM
Looks like we should be doing whatever we did in 2010.  No attacks, apparently (though the creator of this graphic might just have forgotten that the number that comes after 9 is 10, not 11).

What's your beef with 8?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on January 21, 2018, 01:09:41 PM
Quote from: Valmy on January 21, 2018, 03:40:13 AM
Man that is it for 16 years? Hardly seems worth all the fuss.

Yes, we have been trolled.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on January 21, 2018, 01:48:52 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 21, 2018, 11:09:24 AM
Quote from: grumbler on January 21, 2018, 10:55:06 AM
Looks like we should be doing whatever we did in 2010.  No attacks, apparently (though the creator of this graphic might just have forgotten that the number that comes after 9 is 10, not 11).

What's your beef with 8?

I 8 beef, yeah.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on January 21, 2018, 04:38:57 PM
It's a mistake to only look at succesful attacks.
The white far right have tried to kill a lot more than they've managed to, they're just incompetent.

Also let's not forget that the reason Islamic extremists with their low kill count can take the top spot is thanks in large part to the EU that these Islamophobe types so hate. If they have their way we'll soon see Daesh struggling to remain relevant in the media as the IRA, ETA et al get back to business.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on January 21, 2018, 09:02:12 PM
Quote from: Tyr on January 21, 2018, 04:38:57 PM
It's a mistake to only look at succesful attacks.


Well, I suppose you could add in the death toll from unsuccessful attacks, but adding zero to the totals wouldn't actually change them.



:P:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on February 16, 2018, 11:40:13 AM
I see no mention in this thread yet, but apparently in searching the home of the school shooter of the moment they found a bunch of far right shit.
Possible hoax. Who knows.
But the dual standards... :hmm:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on February 16, 2018, 12:03:43 PM
Quote from: Tyr on February 16, 2018, 11:40:13 AM
I see no mention in this thread yet, but apparently in searching the home of the school shooter of the moment they found a bunch of far right shit.
Possible hoax. Who knows.
But the dual standards... :hmm:


I did notice that a lot of the people in the community had Jewish names, some of the parents had Israeli accents and the Chief of the Police, Scott Israel, mentioned they wouldn't be working on the Sabbath.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on February 16, 2018, 12:17:20 PM
A far right group had already claimed his was a member, I believe.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on February 16, 2018, 04:53:58 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 16, 2018, 12:03:43 PM
Quote from: Tyr on February 16, 2018, 11:40:13 AM
I see no mention in this thread yet, but apparently in searching the home of the school shooter of the moment they found a bunch of far right shit.
Possible hoax. Who knows.
But the dual standards... :hmm:


I did notice that a lot of the people in the community had Jewish names, some of the parents had Israeli accents and the Chief of the Police, Scott Israel, mentioned they wouldn't be working on the Sabbath.

Didn't notice that, but I don't doubt you're right about the names*; doubly sad if that was part of his motivation.

Also that might tie-in with the nearly emboldened far-right in the US.


* yes I now recall the police chiefs name, but didn't attach any note to it at the time.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on February 18, 2018, 03:50:34 PM
ISS attack on church worshipers in Europe:

Quote
Dagestan church shooting leaves five dead in Kizlyar12 minutes ago 

Five people have been killed in a shooting at a Christian church in the Russian republic of Dagestan.

Five others were also injured in the shooting, Russia's interior ministry said.

A local man fired at people leaving an evening service in the city of Kizlyar, Russia's Tass news agency said.

The attacker was shot and killed at the scene, and two police officers were among the wounded, the news agency reports.

Russian media report that the attacker used a hunting rifle, opening fire on worshippers leaving a service during the Maslenitsa celebrations - a traditional pre-Lent festival.

The Islamic State group later said - through its information wing Amaq -that one of its "soldiers" had carried out the attack.
......

full item here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43105171 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43105171)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 18, 2018, 04:42:24 PM
Daghestan has been a hotbed of instability for years now, in this troublesome corner of "Europe". In theory, since it is north of the Caucasus.
No Kadyrov there to protect Orthodox worshippers there too, for better or worse.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: jimmy olsen on February 18, 2018, 08:44:18 PM
I missed this somehow last year, and after a quick search it wasn't mentioned in this thread either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14_October_2017_Mogadishu_bombings
QuoteOn 14 October 2017, a massive blast caused by a truck bombing in Mogadishu, the capital of Somalia, killed at least 512 people and injured 316.[1] Another 62 people remain missing.

...

is also the third-deadliest act of terrorism in recorded history, surpassed only by the 2007 Yazidi communities bombings and the September 11 attacks in 2001.[
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 02, 2018, 02:33:11 PM
Last figure I heard mentioned 28 dead.

QuoteIslamic extremists opened fire on the French Embassy and army headquarters in separate attacks in Burkina Faso's capital Friday, killing at least seven soldiers, while eight of the militants were slain, a government official said.
Many others were wounded among the security forces, and it was feared the death toll could rise, said the official, Communications Minister Remy Danjuinou. Five emergency centers were set up in Ouagadougou to treat the high number of casualties in the former French colony.


It was not clear if more militants were involved in the violence, which was called a terrorist attack by Jean Bosco Kienou, director general of Burkina Faso's police, and French Prime Minister Edouard Philippe. There was no claim of responsibility.

Gunfire and explosions resounded for hours but subsided by midday. Workers fled offices near the site of the violence, and helicopters were seen above the embassy.

Defense and security forces responded to the attacks, police said, and barricades were set up.

Witnesses at the state television offices that face the embassy told The Associated Press that five attackers arrived in a pickup truck and started shooting after shouting, "Allahu Akhbar." They then set fire to the truck and continued shooting, the witnesses added.

The neighborhood also houses other embassies, the prime minister's office and UN offices.

Across central Ouagadougou to the west, heavy smoke rose from the army joint chief of staff's office, where witnesses reported loud explosions.

The assailants there also arrived in a pickup and starting shooting at soldiers, said Moussa Korbeogo, a trader at a nearby market.

"Some of the soldiers ran into a nearby bank to seek shelter. Several were killed outside and inside the premises," Korbeogo said.

French and Burkinabe reinforcements deployed to site of embassy attack, says local reporter Jean-Baptiste Dipama.


Five of the extremists were killed at the embassy and at least three were killed near the army headquarters, according to Danjuinou, the communications minister.

French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said in a statement that Burkina Faso's security forces had been mobilised with the support of the French to "reduce the threat."


A crisis center was set up at the ministry in Paris to monitor the situation, he said, adding that the safety of French citizens in Ouagadougou "is my priority."

The ministry's website recommended that people stay off the streets and remain in a safe place.

One of the poorest countries in the world

Burkina Faso, a landlocked nation in West Africa, is one of the poorest countries in the world. It shares a northern border with Mali, which has long battled Islamic extremists.

Ouagadougou has been attacked by Islamic extremists targeting foreigners at least twice in the past few years.

In August, extremists opened fire as patrons dined at a restaurant, killing at least 18 people. In January 2016, Islamic extremists attacked another cafe popular with foreigners, killing 30 people.

Security forces struggled to contain the attacks.

Al-Qaida in the Islamic Maghreb claimed responsibility for the 2016 killings along with the jihadist group known as Al Mourabitoun. But the terror threat in Burkina Faso is increasingly homegrown, experts say.


The northern border region near Mali is the home of a local preacher, Ibrahim Malam Dicko, who has claimed responsibility for recent deadly attacks on troops and civilians. His association, Ansarul Islam, is considered a terrorist group by Burkina Faso's government.

Among his objectives has been ending the use of French, the former colonizer's language, in regional schools. Forces backed by the French military have failed to capture Dicko.

Longtime President Blaise Compaore was ousted in a popular uprising in late 2014, and a coup was mounted the following year but ultimately failed. Some critics say the military has suffered during the years of political upheaval.

During the 2016 assault, security forces waited for hours before trying to intervene.

Threats by Islamic extremists also moved into new parts of Burkina Faso in February with an attack by 10 people in an eastern town that killed an officer and wounded two others.

Increased attacks at the border with Mali have forced thousands to flee in the past year. An Australian doctor who had spent decades treating civilians was also abducted along this border and remains missing.

http://www.france24.com/en/20180302-attack-underway-burkina-faso-capital-ouagadougou (http://www.france24.com/en/20180302-attack-underway-burkina-faso-capital-ouagadougou)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on March 05, 2018, 07:10:27 PM
Interesting story developing locally, appears police/emergency services took two people to Salisbury hospital yesterday later afternoon. Both are now critically ill. Subsequently a special unit has decontaminated an area outside the hospital and also a place within a shopping complex in the city proper.

Could just be two people overdosing on the zombie drugs overpowered with Fentanyl.  But one of them is a 60+ year old former Russian intelligence agent, who worked for MI6 and was part of a 2010 spy swap.  :ph34r:


edit:
more details:

Quote
Critically ill man is former Russian spy

5 March 2018 

A man who is critically ill after being exposed to an unknown substance in Wiltshire is a Russian national convicted of spying for Britain, the BBC understands.

Sergei Skripal, 66, was granted refuge in the UK following a "spy swap" between the US and Russia in 2010.

He and a woman, 33, were found unconscious on a bench at a shopping centre in Salisbury on Sunday.

Zizzi restaurant in Salisbury has been closed by police "as a precaution".

The substance has not been identified, but Public Health England said there was no known risk to the public's health.

Wiltshire Police are investigating whether a crime has been committed. They said the pair had no visible injuries but had been found unconscious at the Maltings shopping centre.

They have declared a "major incident" and multiple agencies are investigating. They said it had not been declared as a counter-terrorism incident, but they were keeping an "open mind".

Col Skripal, who is a retired Russian military intelligence officer, was jailed for 13 years by Russia in 2006 for spying for Britain.
Sergei Skripal: Who is the former Russian colonel?

He was convicted of passing the identities of Russian intelligence agents working undercover in Europe to the UK's Secret Intelligence Service, MI6.

Russia said Col Skripal had been paid $100,000 for the information, which he had been supplying from the 1990s.

He was one of four prisoners released by Moscow in exchange for 10 US spies in 2010, as part of a swap. Col Skripal was later flown to the UK.

He and the woman, who police said were known to each other, are both in intensive care at Salisbury District Hospital.

A number of locations in the city centre were cordoned off and teams in full protective gear used hoses to decontaminate the street.

The hospital advised people to attend routine operations and outpatient appointments unless they were contacted. It said its A&E department was open but busy because of the weather.

On the restaurant closure, police said Public Health England had reiterated the advice that there was no known risk to the wider public, but as a precaution advised that if people felt ill they should contact the NHS on 111.

"If you feel your own or another's health is significantly deteriorating, ring 999," police said.

Neighbours at Sergei Skripal's home in Salisbury say police arrived around 17:00 GMT on Sunday and have been there ever since.

They said he was friendly and in recent years had lost his wife.

Eyewitness Freya Church told the BBC it looked like the two people had taken "something quite strong".

She said: "On the bench there was a couple, an older guy and a younger girl. She was sort of leant in on him, it looked like she had passed out maybe.

"He was doing some strange hand movements, looking up to the sky...

"They looked so out of it I thought even if I did step in I wasn't sure how I could help."

.....


Full item here:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43295134 (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43295134)

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on March 06, 2018, 12:35:50 PM
So what's the deal with all these assassinations in Britain?  Do the British politicians go "Thank you for your blood money, please come again, and help yourselves to some exiles, just don't draw attention to yourselves.  :bowler: ".  Or is there some diplomatic proocol that requires you to declare each assassination of an exile as suicide?  Whatever the reason, the British are not coming off looking great in all of this.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on March 07, 2018, 09:23:44 PM
So it was a nerve agent, and one of the cops is also in a coma.  I don't know how nerve agents work, but I imagine that being in a coma for that long probably means eventual death or vegetative state.  Will that be enough for the Brits to finally fight back against Russian assassins on its soil?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 07, 2018, 11:18:07 PM
For a Russian agent, you sure are critical of Russian methods.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on March 07, 2018, 11:30:22 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 07, 2018, 11:18:07 PM
For a Russian agent, you sure are critical of Russian methods.  :hmm:
I'm old school, I believe in being covert.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on March 15, 2018, 05:53:50 PM
Given where I live and my background, odd that I should be the Languishite nearest, in time and space, to a nerve agent attack.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on March 15, 2018, 07:50:49 PM
My money's still on Timmay.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on March 15, 2018, 08:37:32 PM
Quote from: dps on March 15, 2018, 07:50:49 PM
My money's still on Timmay.

Yeah, inevitable.  :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on March 15, 2018, 08:44:55 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 07, 2018, 11:30:22 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 07, 2018, 11:18:07 PM
For a Russian agent, you sure are critical of Russian methods.  :hmm:
I'm old school, I believe in being covert.


Now they are going investigate a several unexplained deaths that happened recently.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on March 15, 2018, 09:17:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 15, 2018, 08:44:55 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 07, 2018, 11:30:22 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 07, 2018, 11:18:07 PM
For a Russian agent, you sure are critical of Russian methods.  :hmm:
I'm old school, I believe in being covert.


Now they are going investigate a several unexplained deaths that happened recently.

I didn't realise his statistical expositions were that deadly dull.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 16, 2018, 01:53:21 AM
I've never really paid attention. For all I know, he's just an accountant posing as an actuary.   :hmm:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: katmai on March 21, 2018, 05:18:47 AM
The serial bomber who was terrorizing Austin area is apparently dead. Killing himself once he was cornered.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 21, 2018, 05:52:21 AM
24 year old white man.  :hmm:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/21/us/austin-explosions/index.html
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on March 21, 2018, 06:05:39 AM
"very fine people on both sides"!
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on March 21, 2018, 07:57:48 AM
You just know this would be all over the news had he been brown.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on March 21, 2018, 08:22:40 AM
Quote from: Tyr on March 21, 2018, 07:57:48 AM
You just know this would be all over the news had he been brown.

Well it is on the front page of the guardian but they are too busy noting how the data that people freely gave to facebook was used for shady purposes.

edit: also top story on msnbc and cnn so is at least consider top domestic news. even us edition of buzzfeed has it as top bulletin
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: derspiess on March 21, 2018, 09:24:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 21, 2018, 06:05:39 AM
"very fine people on both sides"!

Was he an alt-right Nazzie?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on March 21, 2018, 09:58:35 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 21, 2018, 08:22:40 AM
Quote from: Tyr on March 21, 2018, 07:57:48 AM
You just know this would be all over the news had he been brown.

Well it is on the front page of the guardian but they are too busy noting how the data that people freely gave to facebook was used for shady purposes.

edit: also top story on msnbc and cnn so is at least consider top domestic news. even us edition of buzzfeed has it as top bulletin

Hmm true that the Facebook thing could be hogging the limelight.
Still expected to see more about this though.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on March 21, 2018, 01:32:14 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 21, 2018, 09:24:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 21, 2018, 06:05:39 AM
"very fine people on both sides"!

Was he an alt-right Nazzie?

I think they are still looking into his background. Buzzfeed looked at his college blog where he posted about homosexuality being unnatural, called himself a conservative and noted that if women don't want a baby, they shouldn't have sex as that is meant for procreation.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnashrulla/austin-bombing-suspect-mark-anthony-conditt?utm_term=.ekGo9PMPka#.cjR3JbXbWl
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on March 21, 2018, 02:03:10 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 21, 2018, 09:24:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 21, 2018, 06:05:39 AM
"very fine people on both sides"!

Was he an alt-right Nazzie?


He's white.  That's always a plus in the Trump handbook.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 21, 2018, 02:08:55 PM
You're white, too.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 21, 2018, 05:14:52 PM
What are your regular sources of news Squeeze?

If this sounds like a loaded questions, it's probably because it is.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Solmyr on March 21, 2018, 05:32:42 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 21, 2018, 01:32:14 PM
Quote from: derspiess on March 21, 2018, 09:24:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 21, 2018, 06:05:39 AM
"very fine people on both sides"!

Was he an alt-right Nazzie?

I think they are still looking into his background. Buzzfeed looked at his college blog where he posted about homosexuality being unnatural, called himself a conservative and noted that if women don't want a baby, they shouldn't have sex as that is meant for procreation.

Clearly just a mentally ill lone wolf whose attacks had nothing to do with his beliefs.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: derspiess on March 21, 2018, 05:33:45 PM
That blonde wig he wore in the security camera footage. It looked-- so real.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on March 21, 2018, 06:45:58 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 21, 2018, 05:52:21 AM
24 year old white man.  :hmm:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/03/21/us/austin-explosions/index.html

These fucks are making me look bad.

Anyway good work by the APD to stop that punk. We have to keep a better eye on obviously unstable people like him.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on March 21, 2018, 06:53:08 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on March 21, 2018, 05:32:42 PM
Clearly just a mentally ill lone wolf whose attacks had nothing to do with his beliefs.


I do wonder if the rage culture of the alternative right wing media is fueling this but I don't know enough about the political bent of each of these assholes to know if that is a common thread.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Solmyr on March 22, 2018, 03:36:12 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 21, 2018, 06:45:58 PM
Anyway good work by the APD to stop that punk. We have to keep a better eye on obviously unstable people like him.

But they are very fine people who support the President!
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on March 22, 2018, 04:04:16 AM
https://www.buzzfeed.com/skbaer/austin-package-bomber-admitted-to-crimes-in-video?bfsource=bbf_enus&utm_term=.cfL940K0g7#.hjnz2M5MLB

QuoteThe Austin Package Bomber Admitted To Crimes In A 25-Minute Video Confession

Hours before dying in a car explosion, the man responsible for a string of lethal package bombs in Austin recorded a cell phone video confessing to the crimes that terrorized the area for weeks, police said Wednesday.

Interim Austin Police Chief Brian Manley told reporters that in the 25-minute video the man, identified as 23-year-old Mark Anthony Conditt of Pflugerville, Texas, did not mention anything about terrorism or hate as he described in detail the six explosive devices that killed two people and injured several others.

"Instead it is the outcry of a very challenged young man talking about challenges in his personal life that led him to this point," Manley said.

Police believe Conditt recorded the video sometime between 9 p.m. and 11 p.m. Tuesday.

"There were indications that he stated in the video that he felt like we were getting very close to him," Manley said, adding that they would not be releasing the video at this time.

Conditt died early Wednesday after a pursuit with police ended with him detonating an explosive device in his car as SWAT team officers approached on foot.

One officer fired on the suspect and another officer was injured by the blast.

Manley said the medical examiner's office was still determining whether Conditt died from gunfire or the explosion, but noted that the injuries he sustained from the explosion "were significant."

Federal authorities had charged Conditt late Tuesday with one count of unlawful possession and transfer of a destructive device and issued a warrant for his arrest.

Travis County District Attorney Margaret Moore said Wednesday afternoon that state and federal prosecutors had intended to seek the death penalty.

"The deaths that occurred here were random and meaningless and absolutely something that we can't ever get our heads around," Moore told reporters.

Authorities believe they have accounted for all of the explosive devices constructed by the bomber. In his video recording, Conditt identified each of the devices — including the one he detonated in his vehicle — and explained their similarities and differences, Manley said.

The first package bomb exploded outside a home in East Austin on March 2, killing 39-year-old Anthony House. Two more package bombs were left on doorsteps and exploded on March 12, killing 17-year-old Draylen Mason and injuring a 75-year-old woman who remains in critical condition.

On Sunday, a fourth package bomb that police believe was triggered by a trip wire injured two men as they passed on their bicycles.

A fifth package bomb exploded at a FedEx facility outside San Antonio on Tuesday, injuring an employee. An additional device was found at the facility, but did not detonate.

Manley said it did not appear that the victims were targeted. "There was no indication of why [the bomber chose] these specific addresses," Manley said, referring to Conditt's recorded video.

The bombings had put all of Austin on edge as law enforcement continued to hunt for a suspect. Police said they responded to more than 1,200 suspicious package calls in less than 10 days.

Austin Mayor Steve Adler applauded the community's vigilance Wednesday and said that the bombings were a lesson that residents should get to know their neighbors.

"The legacy of this event for us should be that we walk across the street and introduce ourselves to our neighbors," Adler told reporters. "We should know our neighbors better than we do."

:wacko: :hmm:

What challenges in your life lead you to blowing up innocent people not out of hate?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Ed Anger on March 22, 2018, 09:33:53 PM
You bust your anime body pillow. So ronrey
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on March 23, 2018, 06:22:24 AM
Stuff in France again.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 23, 2018, 07:23:54 AM
Quote from: The Brain on March 23, 2018, 06:22:24 AM
Stuff in France again.

In the former Cathar lands, near Carcassonne, though it's no Cathar, of course. French media reports say it's a Moroccan who sworn allegiance to Daesh.

At least one death reported for now in French media, plus several wounded, one severely, at least. Hostage situation.

QuoteA gunman shot and wounded a policeman in the French tourist city of Carcassonne and an attacker was holding hostages in nearby Trebes on Friday. Prosecutors say they are treating the hostage-taking as a security incident.
What we know so far:

Security forces are responding to two separate incidents in southwestern France.
A policeman was shot and wounded in the tourist city of Carcassonne.
An attacker was holding hostages at a supermarket in Trebes, a 15-minute drive from Carcassonne.
At least one person was killed during the hostage-taking, according to French media reports.
It was unclear if the two incidents were linked.
Prosecutors said they were treating the hostage-taking as a terror incident.

http://www.france24.com/en/20180323-liveblog-shooting-hostage-taking-southwest-france-carcassone-trebes (http://www.france24.com/en/20180323-liveblog-shooting-hostage-taking-southwest-france-carcassone-trebes)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on March 23, 2018, 08:10:09 AM
Most people escaped the supermarket, though it's reported two are dead.   :(

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on March 23, 2018, 09:55:49 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 22, 2018, 04:04:16 AM

What challenges in your life lead you to blowing up innocent people not out of hate?

I wonder how alienated I would have to be to think setting out random explosives was something I would want to do? It is hard to have empathy.

I found the fact he was home-schooled interesting. That would imply a degree of isolation. I can get why that would make one alienated or frustrated by why want to take it out on the general population you have had little contact with?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on March 23, 2018, 09:56:55 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 23, 2018, 07:23:54 AM
In the former Cathar lands, near Carcassonne, though it's no Cathar, of course. French media reports say it's a Moroccan who sworn allegiance to Daesh.

At least one death reported for now in French media, plus several wounded, one severely, at least. Hostage situation.

Hostage situation? What could he possibly be demanding?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 23, 2018, 10:17:34 AM
He is not demanding anything anymore since he was shot by the GIGN, the Gendarmerie SWAT unit.
Early reports mentioned he demanded the release of Salah Abdeslam, unconfirmed.
Daesh claimed the attack.

A hoodlum, convicted several times, who "radicalised" himself. Pity he did not become a radical vegetarian or vegan.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on March 23, 2018, 12:15:20 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 23, 2018, 10:17:34 AM
Daesh claimed the attack.

Well, of course they did. It is good for their brand.

QuoteHe is not demanding anything anymore since he was shot by the GIGN, the Gendarmerie SWAT unit.

I hope none of the hostages were hurt. If not, good work by law enforcement.

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 23, 2018, 02:24:27 PM
3 dead and 16 wounded including a critically injured gendarme commissioned officer who offered himself to replace a hostage.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on March 23, 2018, 03:07:42 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 23, 2018, 02:24:27 PM
3 dead and 16 wounded including a critically injured gendarme commissioned officer who offered himself to replace a hostage.

Damn.  :(

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on March 23, 2018, 04:32:34 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 23, 2018, 09:55:49 AM

I found the fact he was home-schooled interesting. That would imply a degree of isolation. I can get why that would make one alienated or frustrated by why want to take it out on the general population you have had little contact with?

I doubt being homeschooled had anything to do with it.  If you want to make someone feel alienated, I can's think of anything you could do more likely to accomplish that than sending them to the typical US high school.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on March 23, 2018, 09:42:04 PM
Quote from: dps on March 23, 2018, 04:32:34 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 23, 2018, 09:55:49 AM

I found the fact he was home-schooled interesting. That would imply a degree of isolation. I can get why that would make one alienated or frustrated by why want to take it out on the general population you have had little contact with?

I doubt being homeschooled had anything to do with it.  If you want to make someone feel alienated, I can's think of anything you could do more likely to accomplish that than sending them to the typical US high school.

Which is essentially what I was saying. I thought it was odd he was home schooled. I mean that also usually implies a large degree of parental involvement.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 23, 2018, 09:44:13 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 23, 2018, 09:42:04 PM
Quote from: dps on March 23, 2018, 04:32:34 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 23, 2018, 09:55:49 AM

I found the fact he was home-schooled interesting. That would imply a degree of isolation. I can get why that would make one alienated or frustrated by why want to take it out on the general population you have had little contact with?

I doubt being homeschooled had anything to do with it.  If you want to make someone feel alienated, I can's think of anything you could do more likely to accomplish that than sending them to the typical US high school.

Which is essentially what I was saying. I thought it was odd he was home schooled. I mean that also usually implies a large degree of parental involvement.

I interpreted your post the same way dps did.

Homeschooling = isolation = alienation.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on March 23, 2018, 09:46:48 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 23, 2018, 09:44:13 PM
I interpreted your post the same way dps did.

Homeschooling = isolation = alienation.

Ah. I only meant in this dude's case. I was saying that I suppose that homeschooling could lead to a sense of isolation and alienation. I mean most homeschoolers are not blowing up people as far as I know. But even in that case I thought it was weird he would lash out at the general public like that.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on March 23, 2018, 10:22:47 PM
Quote from: dps on March 23, 2018, 04:32:34 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 23, 2018, 09:55:49 AM

I found the fact he was home-schooled interesting. That would imply a degree of isolation. I can get why that would make one alienated or frustrated by why want to take it out on the general population you have had little contact with?

I doubt being homeschooled had anything to do with it.  If you want to make someone feel alienated, I can's think of anything you could do more likely to accomplish that than sending them to the typical US high school.
:wacko:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 24, 2018, 03:11:12 AM
He means normal things, not kgb torture experiments.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 24, 2018, 06:52:49 AM
Quote from: Malthus on March 23, 2018, 03:07:42 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 23, 2018, 02:24:27 PM
3 dead and 16 wounded including a critically injured gendarme commissioned officer who offered himself to replace a hostage.

Damn.  :(

The gendarme died from his wounds this morning. :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on March 24, 2018, 07:42:31 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 24, 2018, 06:52:49 AM
Quote from: Malthus on March 23, 2018, 03:07:42 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 23, 2018, 02:24:27 PM
3 dead and 16 wounded including a critically injured gendarme commissioned officer who offered himself to replace a hostage.

Damn.  :(

The gendarme died from his wounds this morning. :(

That's a tragedy.  :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on March 24, 2018, 08:09:59 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 24, 2018, 03:11:12 AM
He means normal things, not kgb torture experiments.
No, I just think he's normalizing insanity.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on March 24, 2018, 01:57:15 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 24, 2018, 06:52:49 AM
The gendarme died from his wounds this morning. :(

Mort pour la France :weep:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on March 24, 2018, 03:21:59 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 24, 2018, 08:09:59 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 24, 2018, 03:11:12 AM
He means normal things, not kgb torture experiments.
No, I just think he's normalizing insanity.

You didn't attend high school in the US, did you?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on March 24, 2018, 03:24:05 PM
Quote from: dps on March 24, 2018, 03:21:59 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 24, 2018, 08:09:59 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 24, 2018, 03:11:12 AM
He means normal things, not kgb torture experiments.
No, I just think he's normalizing insanity.

You didn't attend high school in the US, did you?
:huh: I sure did.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 24, 2018, 04:05:28 PM
DGuller was hall monitor.

Though I don't think high school is the real culprit, adolescents naturally feel alienated.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on March 24, 2018, 04:24:58 PM
To the extent that alienation is a problem, it's the fact that everyone involved is not quite grown up yet.  Those feeling alienated do not yet have the social skills to find a place they belong, and those helping alienation do not yet have sufficient empathy to reach out rather than exclude. 

Sure, you can lock people away from interaction with their peers, but that seems like a cure much worse than the disease.  At the end of the day, most of us survive the horrors of teen years and US high schools, even if we have to live through an unpleasant period or two.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on March 25, 2018, 01:16:09 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on March 24, 2018, 04:05:28 PM
Though I don't think high school is the real culprit, adolescents naturally feel alienated.

You may be right about that, though the way high schools are set up and run certainly doesn't help.  And that might just be in the nature of schools;  there might not be much we can do about it.  I remember on of my sociology texts in college was talking about primary and secondary schools, and pointed out that you will never again be in an institution that has that much control over your life, unless you enter the military or go to prison.  Probably not really a problem in primary schools, where you're dealing with little kids, but maybe a different story in high schools, where you're dealing with teenagers.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on March 27, 2018, 02:33:21 PM
Quote from: dps on March 23, 2018, 04:32:34 PM
I doubt being homeschooled had anything to do with it.  If you want to make someone feel alienated, I can's think of anything you could do more likely to accomplish that than sending them to the typical US high school.

I thought this was in France? Why would he have gone to the typical US high school? Or was the killer American?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on March 27, 2018, 02:37:06 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 27, 2018, 02:33:21 PM
Quote from: dps on March 23, 2018, 04:32:34 PM
I doubt being homeschooled had anything to do with it.  If you want to make someone feel alienated, I can's think of anything you could do more likely to accomplish that than sending them to the typical US high school.

I thought this was in France? Why would he have gone to the typical US high school? Or was the killer American?
wtf?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on March 27, 2018, 02:37:38 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 24, 2018, 06:52:49 AM
Quote from: Malthus on March 23, 2018, 03:07:42 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 23, 2018, 02:24:27 PM
3 dead and 16 wounded including a critically injured gendarme commissioned officer who offered himself to replace a hostage.

Damn.  :(

The gendarme died from his wounds this morning. :(

He was, truly, a hero (a word that gets devalued these days, but if he wasn't one, then the word has no meaning).

A terrible loss.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on March 27, 2018, 02:39:46 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 27, 2018, 02:37:06 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 27, 2018, 02:33:21 PM
Quote from: dps on March 23, 2018, 04:32:34 PM
I doubt being homeschooled had anything to do with it.  If you want to make someone feel alienated, I can's think of anything you could do more likely to accomplish that than sending them to the typical US high school.

I thought this was in France? Why would he have gone to the typical US high school? Or was the killer American?
wtf?

Did I get different conversational strands mixed?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on March 27, 2018, 02:40:15 PM
Quote from: Malthus on March 27, 2018, 02:37:38 PM
He was, truly, a hero (a word that gets devalued these days, but if he wasn't one, then the word has no meaning).

A terrible loss.

Indeed.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on March 27, 2018, 03:29:38 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 27, 2018, 02:39:46 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 27, 2018, 02:37:06 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 27, 2018, 02:33:21 PM
Quote from: dps on March 23, 2018, 04:32:34 PM
I doubt being homeschooled had anything to do with it.  If you want to make someone feel alienated, I can's think of anything you could do more likely to accomplish that than sending them to the typical US high school.

I thought this was in France? Why would he have gone to the typical US high school? Or was the killer American?
wtf?

Did I get different conversational strands mixed?

Yes. That strand is about Austin...or rather stemmed from that.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on March 27, 2018, 04:30:30 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 27, 2018, 03:29:38 PM
Yes. That strand is about Austin...or rather stemmed from that.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on March 27, 2018, 04:45:21 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 27, 2018, 04:30:30 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 27, 2018, 03:29:38 PM
Yes. That strand is about Austin...or rather stemmed from that.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks.

Yeah, grossly misused megathreads!

Remember back when it was possible to understand what a thread was about, since it was actually about something?  I miss those days.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on March 27, 2018, 07:06:14 PM
Quote from: grumbler on March 27, 2018, 04:45:21 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 27, 2018, 04:30:30 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 27, 2018, 03:29:38 PM
Yes. That strand is about Austin...or rather stemmed from that.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks.

Yeah, grossly misused megathreads!

Remember back when it was possible to understand what a thread was about, since it was actually about something?  I miss those days.

I for one am perfectly happy with people starting individual threads rather than adding to megathreads.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on March 27, 2018, 09:03:59 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 27, 2018, 07:06:14 PM
I for one am perfectly happy with people starting individual threads rather than adding to megathreads.

I think megathreads are good for posts where one doesn't expect many, if any, responses to a post (like the books or ancient DNA megathreads), but not for big news like terrorist attacks.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on April 07, 2018, 10:49:23 AM
Deaths reported after a van is driven into a terrace in Münster. Driver has killed himself, so it was likely a planned attack.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malicious Intent on April 07, 2018, 11:30:43 AM
Quote from: Maladict on April 07, 2018, 10:49:23 AM
Deaths reported after a van is driven into a terrace in Münster. Driver has killed himself, so it was likely a planned attack.

4 deaths, including the driver. Over 30 injured, with 6 of them in critical condition. Police found a suspicious object in the van, unclear if it is a bomb.
This was the first incident, were I had to check on my relatives, as my eldest sister and her husband are visiting their oldest son today, who is studying medicine in Münster. They actually were on the spot, but left 30 minutes before the attack.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on April 08, 2018, 11:48:07 AM
Doesn't sound like it was a terrorist attack.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on April 08, 2018, 12:18:47 PM
No, it wasn't politically motivated.
Good to hear everyone's ok, Mal
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 23, 2018, 12:03:51 AM
29 year old guy shoots up Waffle House in Nashville, kills 2, while wearing no pants.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QplflyN66vM

No footage of shooter not wearing pants, so SFW.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Solmyr on April 23, 2018, 02:41:18 AM
57 people killed in a bombing of Kabul voter registration centre:

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/22/asia/afghanistan-kabul-blast/index.html
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HVC on April 23, 2018, 02:08:33 PM
White Van mounted a curb in Toronto at 1 pm and killed 10 people.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 23, 2018, 02:27:04 PM
Are you sure that wasn't Rob Ford driving on crack?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on April 23, 2018, 03:20:12 PM
Quote from: HVC on April 23, 2018, 02:08:33 PM
White Van mounted a curb in Toronto at 1 pm and killed 10 people.

Looks like the driver tried for suicide by cop, pretended to have a gun, but the cops just arrested him. Taken down without a shot.

https://globalnews.ca/video/4162221/video-captures-standoff-arrest-of-suspect-in-deadly-toronto-van-incident
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on April 23, 2018, 03:20:49 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 23, 2018, 02:27:04 PM
Are you sure that wasn't Rob Ford driving on crack?

That would be pretty scary, considering he's been dead for some time now ...
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HVC on April 23, 2018, 03:29:34 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 23, 2018, 03:20:49 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 23, 2018, 02:27:04 PM
Are you sure that wasn't Rob Ford driving on crack?

That would be pretty scary, considering he's been dead for some time now ...

Given the area I thought Asian driver at first... than felt bad when I heard about the death toll
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on April 23, 2018, 03:35:34 PM
Quote from: HVC on April 23, 2018, 03:29:34 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 23, 2018, 03:20:49 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 23, 2018, 02:27:04 PM
Are you sure that wasn't Rob Ford driving on crack?

That would be pretty scary, considering he's been dead for some time now ...

Given the area I thought Asian driver at first... than felt bad when I heard about the death toll

The perp was allegedly screaming he had a gun and waving something around - apparently his cell phone. Cops weren't fooled.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 23, 2018, 03:38:03 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 23, 2018, 03:20:49 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on April 23, 2018, 02:27:04 PM
Are you sure that wasn't Rob Ford driving on crack?

That would be pretty scary, considering he's been dead for some time now ...

Have you seen the body?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on April 23, 2018, 04:19:32 PM
9 dead, 16 injured :(

Aside Malthus and HVC, we have Josephus in the area, but wasn't there someone else still there? 

And you guys are not too shaken?  I know it's a big city and there's no comparison I can make, but still, if it'd happenned here, I'd be shocked.

I'm guessing Josephus is busy reporting on this and won't come here until a few days.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on April 23, 2018, 04:38:13 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 23, 2018, 04:19:32 PM
9 dead, 16 injured :(

Aside Malthus and HVC, we have Josephus in the area, but wasn't there someone else still there? 

And you guys are not too shaken?  I know it's a big city and there's no comparison I can make, but still, if it'd happenned here, I'd be shocked.

I'm guessing Josephus is busy reporting on this and won't come here until a few days.

Not particularly shaken. Sad for the folks killed and injured, of course, and their families and friends. Happy that the cops acted with conspicuous professionalism.

Then again, I work right downtown, in First Canadian Place; if terrorists ever strike hard, my building would be a good target ...  ;)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HVC on April 23, 2018, 04:46:05 PM
Too big a city to be shaken directly. Still sad for the people.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HVC on April 23, 2018, 04:47:38 PM
I was more effected by the bomb scare of Easter since that happened a few blocks away from me and somewhere I'm often at. Plus it really inconvenienced me lol
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josephus on April 23, 2018, 04:53:18 PM
yeah pretty crazy day.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on April 23, 2018, 05:45:25 PM
Quote from: HVC on April 23, 2018, 04:46:05 PM
Too big a city to be shaken directly. Still sad for the people.
good.  it appears to be a lone wolf rather than a concerted attack of some kind.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HVC on April 23, 2018, 08:40:36 PM
Drivers name was Alek Minassian. Not sure what ethnicity the name is, but he looks slavic to me

Forgot the link. And he was a incel dude. So not terrorism, misogyny.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-van-attack-driver-profile-alek-minassian-1.4632435

(https://i.cbc.ca/1.4632290.1524527484!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/16x9_1180/alek-minassian-toronto-van-crash.jpg?imwidth=720)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on April 23, 2018, 08:45:13 PM
MOOSLIMB
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 23, 2018, 08:46:26 PM
He's got that unfortunate Iranian pattern pubic hair on his head.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on April 23, 2018, 08:51:27 PM
 and a shadow uni brow.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Solmyr on April 24, 2018, 03:38:49 AM
Quote from: HVC on April 23, 2018, 08:40:36 PM
Drivers name was Alek Minassian. Not sure what ethnicity the name is, but he looks slavic to me

Forgot the link. And he was a incel dude. So not terrorism, misogyny.

Surname is Armenian. And why couldn't misogyny lead to terrorism?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: celedhring on April 24, 2018, 07:43:30 AM
Italian police have intercepted a Bosnian driver trying to smuggle a small arsenal (2 pistols, 6 AK-47s, 2 SMGs, ammo) into Barcelona. Anti-terrorism alert has been activated. Wonder if we just avoided a tragedy.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on April 24, 2018, 07:52:36 AM
Looks like our cop on the scene did a good job arresting this nutbar:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/thenational/non-violent-arrest-of-van-attack-suspect-praised-1.4632583
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HVC on April 24, 2018, 08:03:29 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on April 24, 2018, 03:38:49 AM
Quote from: HVC on April 23, 2018, 08:40:36 PM
Drivers name was Alek Minassian. Not sure what ethnicity the name is, but he looks slavic to me

Forgot the link. And he was a incel dude. So not terrorism, misogyny.

Surname is Armenian. And why couldn't misogyny lead to terrorism?


sorry, meant terrorism in the more mainstream sense of Muslim extremism
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HVC on April 24, 2018, 08:07:29 AM
Quote from: Malthus on April 24, 2018, 07:52:36 AM
Looks like our cop on the scene did a good job arresting this nutbar:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/thenational/non-violent-arrest-of-van-attack-suspect-praised-1.4632583

Yeah, you can here it in the video

"kill me"
"no"
"i have a gun"
"I don't care"
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on April 24, 2018, 08:51:55 AM
Quote from: HVC on April 24, 2018, 08:07:29 AM
Quote from: Malthus on April 24, 2018, 07:52:36 AM
Looks like our cop on the scene did a good job arresting this nutbar:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/thenational/non-violent-arrest-of-van-attack-suspect-praised-1.4632583

Yeah, you can here it in the video

"kill me"
"no"
"i have a gun"
"I don't care"

That cop was very courageous, not to simply gun him down.

Then the cop puts away his gun and pulls out his baton, and the nut realizes that, instead of a glorious suicide by cop, he's gonna get a painful and humiliating beating - and so surrenders.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on April 24, 2018, 09:23:17 AM
Great job from the cop.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josephus on April 24, 2018, 11:17:56 AM
Yeah kudos to the cop. If this was in America, the dude would be riddled with bullets by now.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on April 24, 2018, 11:27:08 AM
American Law Enforcement: Keeping the peace thru superior firepower since 1850.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on April 24, 2018, 02:06:37 PM
That Canadian cop realized that the moron with the phone still had his safety on.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Ed Anger on April 24, 2018, 06:49:47 PM
Quote from: Josephus on April 24, 2018, 11:17:56 AM
Yeah kudos to the cop. If this was in America, the dude would be riddled with bullets by now.

It would have saved on prison costs.

USA USA USA
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on April 24, 2018, 09:05:58 PM
Quote from: Josephus on April 24, 2018, 11:17:56 AM
Yeah kudos to the cop. If this was in America, the dude would be riddled with bullets by now.


I'm really impressed.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on April 25, 2018, 09:40:40 AM
Quote from: Josephus on April 24, 2018, 11:17:56 AM
Yeah kudos to the cop. If this was in America, the dude would be riddled with bullets by now.

I am glad we are setting such a high standard for police work for the rest of the world.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 30, 2018, 02:32:31 PM
This is the saddest thing I've ever been exposed to.  Sadder even than the Swinger phone message scene.

Alek Minassian's last Facebook post before the attack was "The Incel Rebellion has already begun! We will overthrow all Chads and Stacys! All hail Supreme Gentleman Elliot Rodger!"

Incel means involuntary celibacy, i.e., you can't get laid.  Chads are guys who get laid while you don't.  Stacy's are girls who won't bang you.  Elliot Rodger was a guy who killed six in Santa Monica because he couldn't get laid.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 12, 2018, 04:45:04 PM
Ramadan starts soon but there is already a knife attack.
Le Figaro reports the perpetrator shouted Allahu Abkar before attacking.

http://www.france24.com/en/20180512-man-attacks-people-with-knife-paris-shot-police (http://www.france24.com/en/20180512-man-attacks-people-with-knife-paris-shot-police)

QuoteOne person was killed in a knife attack in Paris on Saturday and the assailant was shot dead by police, a police source said.


French Interior Minister Gerard Collomb confirmed there had been an attack in Paris and said there were victims, without giving any details. The attacker had been overpowered by police, he said.

The Paris prefecture had earlier said a person had carried out a knife attack in the second arrondissement - or district - of the French capital. Paris' opera and landmark retail stores are located in that area.

PARIS KNIFE ATTACK

The police source said some seven people had been injured.

BFM TV said two were in a critical condition.

A judicial source said authorities were looking into whether the anti-terrorism prosecutor's office should be handling the case.

TWEET BY FRENCH POLICE

QuotePréfecture de police

@prefpolice
🔴 Agression de 5 personnes dans le 2ème arrondissement de Paris par un individu armé d'un couteau: une victime est décédée, deux sont blessées grièvement et deux sont blessées légèrement. L'agresseur est décédé.


France has been on high alert as a series of attacks commissioned or inspired by Islamic State have hit the country over the past three years in which dozens of people have been killed.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on May 12, 2018, 04:52:41 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 12, 2018, 04:45:04 PM
Ramadan starts soon but there is already a knife attack.
Le Figaro reports the perpetrator shouted Allahu Abkar before attacking.


Tragedy for the victims of this 'nutter'; good work by the police getting him so soon into his rampage.

That religion, sure is a powerful mind altering drug for some. Maybe for those troubled individuals it should only be available on prescription and taken under supervision, their dosages monitored?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 12, 2018, 05:08:15 PM
Quote from: mongers on May 12, 2018, 04:52:41 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 12, 2018, 04:45:04 PM
Ramadan starts soon but there is already a knife attack.
Le Figaro reports the perpetrator shouted Allahu Abkar before attacking.


Tragedy for the victims of this 'nutter'; good work by the police getting him so soon into his rampage.

That religion, sure is a powerful mind altering drug for some. Maybe for those troubled individuals it should only be available on prescription and taken under supervision, their dosages monitored?

Some extremely dangerous opium of the people indeed!
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 13, 2018, 02:40:11 PM
Perpetrator was Chechnyan, naturalised French (?!) after his refugee mother was given French citizenship.....
Name has been given, named Azimov, but not Isaac.
He was on an anti-terrorism watchlist, the so-called S-File.

http://www.france24.com/en/20180512-man-attacks-people-with-knife-paris-shot-police (http://www.france24.com/en/20180512-man-attacks-people-with-knife-paris-shot-police)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 29, 2018, 08:42:56 AM
QuoteBelgium investigates deadly Liège shooting as terrorist incident

Latest update : 2018-05-29

A gunman killed two police officers and a passerby in the eastern Belgian city of Liège on Tuesday before he was shot dead by police, prosecutors have said, adding that the shooting is being investigated as a terrorist incident.
The shooting occurred around 10:30am local time (8:30 GMT) near a high school on a major artery in the city, which lies some 90 kilometres east of Brussels.

The local public prosecutor said the man attacked the two officers from behind with a knife, took one of their guns and shot them both dead, before killing a passenger in a car parked nearby.

Liège's mayor's office later confirmed that both of the police officers killed were women.

The assailant took refuge in a school where he was killed in a subsequent gunfight during which several other police officers were wounded, the prosecutor added.

Images on social media showed people scurrying for safety on the Boulevard d'Avroy with shots and sirens being heard in the background. One video showed two policemen in body armour moving into position.

Belgian Prime Minister Charles Michel, expressing his condolences to the families of the victims, said it was too early to determine the assailant's motives.

Jan Jambon ((very haram wallah!), the interior minister, said the country's Federal Crisis Centre was monitoring the situation.

"Our thoughts are with the victims of this horrible act. We are in the process of establishing an overview of exactly what happened," Jambon wrote on Twitter.

Liège, an industrial city close to the German border in the French-speaking Wallonia region, was also the scene of a shooting in 2011, when a gunman killed four people and wounded over 100 before turning the gun on himself.

Belgium has been on high alert since a Brussels-based Islamic State (IS) group cell was involved in attacks on Paris in 2015 that killed 130 people and Brussels in 2016 in which 32 died.

(FRANCE 24 with AFP, REUTERS)

http://www.france24.com/en/20180529-police-officers-shot-dead-belgium-liege (http://www.france24.com/en/20180529-police-officers-shot-dead-belgium-liege)

2 female officers from what I have read elsewhere.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on May 29, 2018, 08:55:13 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on May 29, 2018, 08:42:56 AM
QuoteBelgium investigates deadly Liège shooting as terrorist incident

Latest update : 2018-05-29

A gunman killed two police officers and a passerby in the eastern Belgian city of Liège on Tuesday before he was shot dead by police, prosecutors have said, adding that the shooting is being investigated as a terrorist incident.
The shooting occurred around 10:30am local time (8:30 GMT) near a high school on a major artery in the city, which lies some 90 kilometres east of Brussels.

The local public prosecutor said the man attacked the two officers from behind with a knife, took one of their guns and shot them both dead, before killing a passenger in a car parked nearby.

Liège's mayor's office later confirmed that both of the police officers killed were women.

The assailant took refuge in a school where he was killed in a subsequent gunfight during which several other police officers were wounded, the prosecutor added.

Images on social media showed people scurrying for safety on the Boulevard d'Avroy with shots and sirens being heard in the background. One video showed two policemen in body armour moving into position.

Belgian Prime Minister Charles Michel, expressing his condolences to the families of the victims, said it was too early to determine the assailant's motives.

Jan Jambon ((very haram wallah!), the interior minister, said the country's Federal Crisis Centre was monitoring the situation.

"Our thoughts are with the victims of this horrible act. We are in the process of establishing an overview of exactly what happened," Jambon wrote on Twitter.

Liège, an industrial city close to the German border in the French-speaking Wallonia region, was also the scene of a shooting in 2011, when a gunman killed four people and wounded over 100 before turning the gun on himself.

Belgium has been on high alert since a Brussels-based Islamic State (IS) group cell was involved in attacks on Paris in 2015 that killed 130 people and Brussels in 2016 in which 32 died.

(FRANCE 24 with AFP, REUTERS)

http://www.france24.com/en/20180529-police-officers-shot-dead-belgium-liege (http://www.france24.com/en/20180529-police-officers-shot-dead-belgium-liege)

2 female officers from what I have read elsewhere.

Is this character likely to fit the now typical profile of drug user, petty criminal, 'radicalised' in prison and given new 'purpose' in life?

I note he probably got bonus points for killing young modern women who perform a useful social function.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on May 29, 2018, 08:59:51 AM
Yeah, petty criminal then converted to Islam.
Described as "unstable" and a dropout.
On a temporary release from prison...

http://www.dhnet.be/actu/monde/l-auteur-de-l-attaque-a-liege-benjamin-herman-etait-un-marginal-violent-qui-avait-obtenu-une-permission-de-sortie-de-prison-5b0d2e5f5532858b92658466 (http://www.dhnet.be/actu/monde/l-auteur-de-l-attaque-a-liege-benjamin-herman-etait-un-marginal-violent-qui-avait-obtenu-une-permission-de-sortie-de-prison-5b0d2e5f5532858b92658466)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on July 22, 2018, 11:04:24 PM
Multiple people shot outside a restaurant in Toronto.  No info on the shooter(s).  Terrorism?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HVC on July 23, 2018, 03:09:04 AM
Happened like 2km away from me.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on July 26, 2018, 03:10:07 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-44963700

QuoteBeijing blast: Small explosive device set off near US embassy

A man has set off a small explosive device close to the US embassy in Beijing, officials have confirmed.

Apart from the attacker, there were no injuries reported and officials say police responded immediately.

Video and images posted on social media show smoke rising from the vicinity of the embassy in the heart of the Chinese capital with crowds gathering.

State media outlet Global Times tweeted that local residents had heard a "thunder-like bang".

A statement from the US embassy in Beijing said a device, which they described as a bomb, had exploded at around 1300 local time (0500 GMT) at the south-east corner of the compound.

Beijing police called it a "suspected firecracker device" which caused a fire. The bomber injured his hand during the incident, but there was no danger to his life and he was immediately sent to hospital.

He was named by police as Jiang Moumou, from Inner Mongolia province.

The BBC's Stephen McDonell at the scene says that normal activities have since resumed at the embassy, with people still lining up for visa applications.

There were earlier reports that police had taken away a woman who had tried to set herself on fire near the embassy at 1100 local time, several hours before the reported blast.

It is unclear if the two incidents were linked.

Attacks on sites in the Chinese capital are rare. The most serious incident in recent years saw a car ploughing into a crowd at Tiananmen Square in 2013, killing five people including the attackers. China blamed the incident on Muslim Uighur separatists.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on July 27, 2018, 09:30:14 AM
Mongol terrorists? :hmm:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on August 02, 2018, 09:19:48 AM
Have we now seen the demise of IS as an effective source of terrorism?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on August 04, 2018, 08:27:02 PM
Something happened in Venezuela.  Not clear exactly what though.  Government claims it was an attempt on Maduro's life and explosions are reported.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on August 05, 2018, 12:55:50 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 04, 2018, 08:27:02 PM
Something happened in Venezuela.  Not clear exactly what though.  Government claims it was an attempt on Maduro's life and explosions are reported.
small propane tank exploded from an appt building.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Liep on August 09, 2018, 09:05:48 AM
New Mexico compound suspects were training children for school shootings, prosecutors say (https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/08/us/new-mexico-compound-complaint-school-shooting/index.html)


I miss the times when guarded and isolated compounds in thinly populated areas in USA was a Christian extremist thing.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on August 09, 2018, 10:12:26 AM
Quote from: Liep on August 09, 2018, 09:05:48 AM
New Mexico compound suspects were training children for school shootings, prosecutors say (https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/08/us/new-mexico-compound-complaint-school-shooting/index.html)


I miss the times when guarded and isolated compounds in thinly populated areas in USA was a Christian extremist thing.

Good work by the local police/sheriff to end it without bloodshed, capture the two or five conspirators and rescue the children.

One of the guys had a loaded AR15 and four pistols on him at time of arrest.

Tragedy that the estranged wife found out that her 4 year old had died in suspicious circumstance 
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on August 14, 2018, 11:04:50 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45180120

QuoteWestminster car crash: Man arrested on suspicion of terror offences

A man has been arrested on suspicion of terrorism offences after a car crashed outside the Houses of Parliament.

The vehicle swerved into cyclists and pedestrians shortly after 07:30 BST, injuring three people.

The suspect, in his late 20s, is not believed to be known to MI5 or counter-terrorism police, and is not co-operating with officers.

A woman is being treated in hospital for serious but non life-threatening injuries.

Scotland Yard's head of counter terrorism Neil Basu said: "Given that this appears to be a deliberate act, the method and this being an iconic site, we are treating it as a terrorist incident."

He added there was "no intelligence at this time of further danger" to London or the UK as a whole.

No-one else was in the car and no weapons have been found.

The government held a meeting of its Cobra emergency committee and the prime minister has paid tribute to the "formidable courage" and professionalism of the emergency services who "ran towards a dangerous situation in order to protect the public".

Urging the public to remain vigilant but "carry on as normal", Theresa May added: "For the second time in as many years the home of our democracy, which is a potent symbol of our precious values of tolerance and freedom, has witnessed terrible scenes just yards from its door."

The suspect, who has not been formally identified, is being held at a south London police station and the vehicle is being searched.

BBC home affairs correspondent Daniel Sandford said sources have told him the suspect is from the Birmingham area.

A number of eyewitnesses have said the silver Ford Fiesta, which was travelling westbound, appeared to deliberately hit members of the public as it swerved into the opposite lane.

Footage released by the BBC shows the moment when the car drives over a pedestrian crossing before crashing into the security barriers. A police officer can be seen jumping over another barrier to get out of the way.



QuoteDonald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

Another terrorist attack in London...These animals are crazy and must be dealt with through toughness and strength!
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on August 14, 2018, 11:14:12 AM
Sounds like it all went down with minimal damage. Thank God.

And really Mr. President?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: celedhring on August 20, 2018, 01:58:59 AM
Jihadi has tried to assault a police station in a Barcelona suburb, with a knife. Hasn't ended well for him. No other casualties.

Three days ago we had the first anniversary of the Barcelona terror attack.

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on August 20, 2018, 06:36:21 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 14, 2018, 11:14:12 AM
Sounds like it all went down with minimal damage. Thank God.

And really Mr. President?

It was so minor it took sometime before I'd even seen news coverage on it.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: celedhring on August 21, 2018, 09:21:53 AM
Quote from: celedhring on August 20, 2018, 01:58:59 AM
Jihadi has tried to assault a police station in a Barcelona suburb, with a knife. Hasn't ended well for him. No other casualties.

Three days ago we had the first anniversary of the Barcelona terror attack.

Well, this took a bit of a turn. It now looks like this was a suicide by cop as the knife-wielder, devout muslim, struggled to cope with his homosexuality, according to his ex-wife. He left a note that's been leaked to the media, asking god to help him deal with a "curse".
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on August 21, 2018, 10:13:13 AM
That is terrible. Poor bastard.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on August 31, 2018, 07:56:39 AM
Likely terrorism?

Quote
Amsterdam station: Suspect shot after double stabbing

Two people have been wounded in a stabbing incident at Amsterdam's central railway station, Dutch police say.

The suspected attacker was shot and wounded by police. The motive is unclear and officials say an investigation is under way.

All three have been taken to hospital for treatment.

Some train services in and out of the station were suspended during the incident and two platforms closed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45367578 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45367578)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on September 05, 2018, 07:27:15 AM
Yes a terrorist. Excellent job by the Dutch police to spot him acting suspiciously and dealing with him so swiftly.

Quote
Amsterdam attack: Jihadist knifeman shot in nine seconds5 September 2018 

A 19-year-old Afghan who stabbed two American tourists in Amsterdam was shot just nine seconds after he launched his attack, the city's police chief has revealed.


Commissioner Pieter-Jaap Aalbersberg said a special "spotter" had been watching the suspect when he pulled out a knife at Amsterdam's central station.

Moments later teenager Jawed S was shot in the hip, he said.

The suspect's lawyer has revealed the man had expected to die in the attack.

Jawed S, an asylum seeker who arrived in Germany in 2015, had travelled by train to Amsterdam on Friday. The German authorities say they were tipped off in February that he had become radicalised while living at a youth facility.
.....
How did attack unfold?

The Amsterdam police chief told Dutch TV that Jawed S had got off a train shortly before midday on Friday and a few minutes afterwards his "abnormal behaviour" had come to the notice of a member of a team of public transport police trained to spot potential pickpockets as well as potential terrorists.


"He called two colleagues over," said Mr Aalbersberg. "While they are working out how to go and talk to him, they see he starts stabbing."


One of the tourists was stabbed in the back at a kiosk before a second was attacked.

The police, who were by now 20m (65ft) away, drew their weapons. As Jawed S ran towards another potential victim, an officer opened fire and brought him down.

Within minutes, police had looked through CCTV images and determined that man had been acting on his own.

"There were two victims and that is very serious, but the number was kept to a minimum," the commissioner said.

"Within nine seconds it was over and the officers made the difference during one precise moment," he added, stressing that they had saved lives.

Full item here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45419445 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45419445)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on September 05, 2018, 07:29:52 AM
Very disciplined and expertly done. Way to go dutch cops.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on September 05, 2018, 07:53:50 AM
Well, it was bound to happen here sooner or later. People seem decidedly unimpressed, which is comforting.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on September 05, 2018, 11:56:18 AM
I hope this is kept off the main news.
I mean, if there was a stabbing in Amsterdam which wasn't related to a radicalised idiot but just a regular mugger would it be reported outside of Holland?
Cutting off their oxygen is the only way to stop them.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on September 06, 2018, 01:08:34 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 05, 2018, 11:56:18 AM
Cutting off their oxygen is the only way to stop them.
I don't know about that, shooting them seems to have done the trick at least in this case.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on September 06, 2018, 04:43:23 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 05, 2018, 11:56:18 AM
I hope this is kept off the main news.
I mean, if there was a stabbing in Amsterdam which wasn't related to a radicalised idiot but just a regular mugger would it be reported outside of Holland?
Cutting off their oxygen is the only way to stop them.

Never thought I'd live to see Tyr approvingly 'quoting' Thatcher.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on September 09, 2018, 07:49:52 PM
Likely terror knife attack in Paris:

Quote
Paris knife attacker injures seven

Seven people have been injured, four seriously, in an attack by a man armed with a knife and an iron bar in the French capital, Paris, police say.
The man, said to be an Afghan national, was arrested. Sources said there was no indication it was a terrorist attack.
Several reports say two of those injured are British tourists.
The attack took place just before 23:00 (21:00 GMT) on the banks of a canal in the 19th arrondissement, in the north-east of the capital.
Sources said the man had attacked strangers, initially stabbing two men and a woman near the MK2 cinema on the Quai de Loire, along the Ourcq canal.
Several people playing the game pétanque nearby reportedly threw balls at the attacker to try to stop him.
The man was hit and fled. He then reportedly attacked the two British tourists on Henri Nogueres street.
.....

Full item:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45468082 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45468082)


Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 11, 2018, 09:18:49 AM
Quote from: mongers on September 09, 2018, 07:49:52 PM
Likely terror knife attack in Paris:

Quote
Paris knife attacker injures seven

Seven people have been injured, four seriously, in an attack by a man armed with a knife and an iron bar in the French capital, Paris, police say.
The man, said to be an Afghan national, was arrested. Sources said there was no indication it was a terrorist attack.
Several reports say two of those injured are British tourists.
The attack took place just before 23:00 (21:00 GMT) on the banks of a canal in the 19th arrondissement, in the north-east of the capital.
Sources said the man had attacked strangers, initially stabbing two men and a woman near the MK2 cinema on the Quai de Loire, along the Ourcq canal.
Several people playing the game pétanque nearby reportedly threw balls at the attacker to try to stop him.
The man was hit and fled. He then reportedly attacked the two British tourists on Henri Nogueres street.
.....

Full item:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45468082 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45468082)




For now, it is still referred as an attack by a mentally unstable individual who happens to be Afghan.
All hail the NE Paris bobo counter-terrorist citizen force counter-attacking with pétanque balls.  :lol:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on September 11, 2018, 09:23:09 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 11, 2018, 09:18:49 AM
Quote from: mongers on September 09, 2018, 07:49:52 PM
Likely terror knife attack in Paris:

Quote
Paris knife attacker injures seven

Seven people have been injured, four seriously, in an attack by a man armed with a knife and an iron bar in the French capital, Paris, police say.
The man, said to be an Afghan national, was arrested. Sources said there was no indication it was a terrorist attack.
Several reports say two of those injured are British tourists.
The attack took place just before 23:00 (21:00 GMT) on the banks of a canal in the 19th arrondissement, in the north-east of the capital.
Sources said the man had attacked strangers, initially stabbing two men and a woman near the MK2 cinema on the Quai de Loire, along the Ourcq canal.
Several people playing the game pétanque nearby reportedly threw balls at the attacker to try to stop him.
The man was hit and fled. He then reportedly attacked the two British tourists on Henri Nogueres street.
.....

Full item:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45468082 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45468082)




For now, it is still referred as an attack by a mentally unstable individual who happens to be Afghan.
All hail the NE Paris bobo counter-terrorist citizen force counter-attacking with pétanque balls.  :lol:

You gotta admit, counter-attacking a knife-wielding maniac took real balls.  ;)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Liep on October 17, 2018, 06:28:00 AM
Explosion at a school on Crimea, apparently a bomb that has left at least 10 dead. :(

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45891201
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Liep on October 17, 2018, 06:35:32 AM
Quote from: Liep on October 17, 2018, 06:28:00 AM
Explosion at a school on Crimea, apparently a bomb that has left at least 10 dead. :(

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45891201

"Attackers were "running & throwing explosives," then "opening rooms & killing everyone they could find" with assault rifles"
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on October 17, 2018, 06:49:38 AM
When there was a news item a week or so ago that Putin's popularity has allegedly plummetted because of the pension reforms they've had to do, many commenters joked that it's ok, they'll just need to blow something up.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on October 17, 2018, 08:50:23 PM
Quote from: Tamas on October 17, 2018, 06:49:38 AM
When there was a news item a week or so ago that Putin's popularity has allegedly plummetted because of the pension reforms they've had to do, many commenters joked that it's ok, they'll just need to blow something up.

I'm not sure how him setting up a highly credible looking school shooting would help him.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Barrister on October 17, 2018, 09:16:00 PM
Yeah, news report I saw was that it was a lone wolf school shooting. :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on October 18, 2018, 02:58:57 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45900534

QuoteCrimea attack: College shooting is 'globalisation' result

The deadly gun and bomb attack on a college in Crimea "appears to be a result of globalisation", Russian President Vladimir Putin has said.

"On social media, on the internet, we see the creation of entire communities. Everything started with the tragic events in schools in the US," he said
.

Fifteen students and five teachers were killed in Wednesday's attack on the technical college in Kerch.

Officials named the killer as Vladislav Roslyakov, 18, who took his own life.

He was a fourth-year student at the college in the city in Crimea - the southern peninsula annexed by Russia from Ukraine in 2014.

'People have lost limbs'

On Wednesday, a huge nail-bomb blast ripped through the college's cafeteria, before the killer stormed through the building, shooting people at close range with a pump-action hunting rifle.

Russian Health Minister Veronika Skvortsova said the explosion from a home-made device had showered people with shrapnel.

"Some victims' internal organs were ruptured, we're finding washers and ballbearings in their livers, intestines, blood vessels," she said.

"Limbs have been amputated - people have lost feet and shins," she said.

Some of the critically injured were being transferred to hospitals as far away as Moscow.

The authorities in Crimea have declared three days of mourning. A prayer service was held for the victims at a makeshift shrine near the college.

The rampage is the deadliest attack to have taken place in Crimea since the Russian annexation.

That Russian intervention - condemned by many Western powers - marked the start of a conflict pitting Russian-backed rebels in eastern Ukraine against Ukrainian government forces.

What happened at the college?

The perpetrator is said to have run from room to room as he fired. Minutes earlier he had left a rucksack containing the nail-bomb in the cafeteria on the ground floor and detonated it remotely, Russian Channel One TV reported.

Photos later emerged in Russian media purportedly showing his body in the college library.

The TV report described a scene of devastation and mass panic after the blast. It said doors and windows were shattered in the entrance hall and on the first floor, above the cafeteria. Some students leapt out of the building from a height of 5m (16ft 5in).

Investigators later said they had found a second explosive device among the gunman's possessions and that it had been disarmed. He was also reported to have several packs of bullets and home-made petrol bombs.

BBC Russian spoke to witnesses, including Igor Zakharevsky. "I was at the epicentre of the first explosion, at the entrance, near the buffet," he said.

"I was in complete shock and one of my classmates started pulling me away. Then I heard several shots at intervals of two or three seconds. After a while there was another explosion."

Marina, an 18-year-old student at the college, said there was "a massive explosion, the windows began to rattle and everyone started screaming".

"We bolted out of the classroom and ran. There was complete pandemonium in the corridor," she said. "I saw a girl lying near the wall in an unnatural position, others lying on the floor covered in blood. Shots were being fired every five or six seconds.

The incident was first described as a "terrorist act", but Russia's investigative committee later reclassified it as "mass murder".
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Barrister on October 18, 2018, 03:00:43 PM
Why am I not surprised that Putin found an angle to blame the attack on the US.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on October 18, 2018, 03:05:37 PM
No, he blames globalisation. I.e., I guess he's fine with Americans shooting each other, but not with Russians learning about it because of those pesky interwebs. :P
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on October 27, 2018, 10:29:00 AM
Wasn't sure if this should go into the gun thread or here; do we need a hate crime megathread? :unsure:

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2018/10/26/us/26reuters-kentucky-shooting.html

QuoteKentucky Supermarket Shooting Investigated as Hate Crime

(Reuters) - The shooting of a black man and woman at a Kentucky supermarket was being investigated as a possible hate crime, a federal prosecutor said on Friday.

Gregory Bush, 51, a white man, has been charged with shooting Maurice Stallard, 69, in front of his grandson as they shopped in a Kroger Inc grocery store in Jeffersontown, some 15 miles (24 km) from downtown Louisville. According to an arrest citation, he then went to the parking lot and shot Vickie Jones, 67.

Bush has been charged with murder and 10 counts of first-degree wanton endangerment.

"Federal investigators are supporting local law enforcement and examining this matter from the perspective of federal criminal law, which includes potential civil rights violations such as hate crimes," U.S. Attorney Russell Coleman said in a statement on Friday.

An armed bystander with a carry permit for a concealed weapon exchanged gunfire with Bush in the parking lot before the suspect fled in his car. He was apprehended shortly afterwards, police said.

Ed Harrell told the Louisville Courier Journal that he pulled out his pistol as Bush approached him in the parking lot and Bush told him not to shoot as "whites don't kill whites."

It was not immediately clear if Bush had legal representation.

If investigators suspect the killings were racially motivated, Bush could also be charged for a hate crime.

Both Stallard and Jones were shot from behind multiple times, Jeffersontown Police Chief Sam Rogers told reporters on Thursday.

Rogers said Bush suffered from mental illness and court records showed he had a history of violence and at least one instance when he used a racial slur.

About 15 minutes before walking into the Kroger supermarket Bush tried to get into a predominantly black Baptist church, police said, citing surveillance video.

First Baptist Church administrator Billy Williams told local CBS affiliate WLKY there were eight to 10 people in the church at the time.

In 2015, self-described white supremacist Dylann Roof, then 21, shot and killed nine black people in a church in Charleston, South Carolina.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on October 27, 2018, 02:47:10 PM
They're now saying at least 10 dead in the Pittsburg synagogue shooting, with more wounded, including 4 cops.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on October 27, 2018, 02:55:50 PM
Quote from: dps on October 27, 2018, 02:47:10 PM
They're now saying at least 10 dead in the Pittsburg synagogue shooting, with more wounded, including 4 cops.

Oh dear.  :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Caliga on October 27, 2018, 09:18:21 PM
The Kentucky shooting happened about a mile from my office.  Been into that Kroger a few times. :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on November 03, 2018, 12:50:29 AM
So, not sure if terrorism, but somebody shot 6 people in Florida at a yoga studio, of all places.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 03, 2018, 12:57:58 AM
My money's on incel.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on November 04, 2018, 05:13:57 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 03, 2018, 12:57:58 AM
My money's on incel.

You could well be correct:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46090014 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46090014)

Quote
Florida Yoga gunman: Shooter 'posted misogynist videos'4 November 2018 

A gunman who killed two women at a Florida yoga studio had previously posted misogynistic and racist videos online, it has emerged.

Scott Paul Beierle, 40, had also been accused of harassing women and grabbing their bottoms, police say.

Beierle killed Nancy Van Vessem, 61, and Maura Binkley, 21, at the studio in Tallahassee on Friday, before taking his own life.

Officers are still trying to establish whether he had any links to the women.

All three had connections to Florida State University - Beierle a former student, Dr Van Vessem an employee and Ms Binkley a current student - but it is unclear if they knew one another.

Another five people were injured during the attack. Investigators have yet to give a possible motive for the shooting.

However, it seems Beierle, who lived in Deltona, Florida, was known to authorities as he had "been the subject of prior calls for service in the Tallahassee area related to harassment of young women", local police said in a statement.

In 2012 and 2016 he was arrested for grabbing women's bottoms, although prosecutors later dropped the charges.

Meanwhile, videos uncovered by BuzzFeed News show Beierle calling women "sluts" and "whores", also hitting out at women he said betrayed "their blood" by dating people of other races.

In another video, he appeared to sympathise with young men like Elliot Rodger, who killed six people in Isla Vista, California, in May 2014. He has since become a hero to an online community known as the "involuntarily celibate", or incels, who blame women for their lack of sexual partners.

Beierle, who had served in the military, also uploaded a video where he said he wanted to "blow off" a woman's head.

The videos date back to 2014, all posted within a three day period.

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: jimmy olsen on November 27, 2018, 11:59:27 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 26, 2018, 03:10:07 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-44963700

QuoteBeijing blast: Small explosive device set off near US embassy

A man has set off a small explosive device close to the US embassy in Beijing, officials have confirmed.

Apart from the attacker, there were no injuries reported and officials say police responded immediately.

Video and images posted on social media show smoke rising from the vicinity of the embassy in the heart of the Chinese capital with crowds gathering.

State media outlet Global Times tweeted that local residents had heard a "thunder-like bang".

A statement from the US embassy in Beijing said a device, which they described as a bomb, had exploded at around 1300 local time (0500 GMT) at the south-east corner of the compound.

Beijing police called it a "suspected firecracker device" which caused a fire. The bomber injured his hand during the incident, but there was no danger to his life and he was immediately sent to hospital.

He was named by police as Jiang Moumou, from Inner Mongolia province.

The BBC's Stephen McDonell at the scene says that normal activities have since resumed at the embassy, with people still lining up for visa applications.

There were earlier reports that police had taken away a woman who had tried to set herself on fire near the embassy at 1100 local time, several hours before the reported blast.

It is unclear if the two incidents were linked.

Attacks on sites in the Chinese capital are rare. The most serious incident in recent years saw a car ploughing into a crowd at Tiananmen Square in 2013, killing five people including the attackers. China blamed the incident on Muslim Uighur separatists.

Do we have a thread on the Uighur concentration camps? I thought someone posted one, but I can't find it.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on November 28, 2018, 12:47:50 PM
QuoteDo we have a thread on the Uighur concentration camps? I thought someone posted one, but I can't find it.

Well if this was an Uighur I am glad they are well aware who is the real cause of their plight: America.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on December 11, 2018, 04:29:00 PM
Shooting in Strasbourg.  2 dead, 11 injured.
Shooter has fled.

French link (https://www.lapresse.ca/international/europe/201812/11/01-5207665-fusillade-a-strasbourg-deux-morts-et-onze-blesses-le-tireur-en-fuite.php) until I can find something else.

Edit:
CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/strasbourg-france-christmas-market-shooting-today-2018-11-12-live-updates/)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on December 11, 2018, 04:31:03 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 11, 2018, 04:29:00 PM
Shooting in Strasbourg.  2 dead, 11 injured.
Shooter has fled.

French link (https://www.lapresse.ca/international/europe/201812/11/01-5207665-fusillade-a-strasbourg-deux-morts-et-onze-blesses-le-tireur-en-fuite.php) until I can find something else.

Edit:
CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/strasbourg-france-christmas-market-shooting-today-2018-11-12-live-updates/)


You indicated that long wolf shooters are not terrorists.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on December 11, 2018, 04:45:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 11, 2018, 04:31:03 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 11, 2018, 04:29:00 PM
Shooting in Strasbourg.  2 dead, 11 injured.
Shooter has fled.

French link (https://www.lapresse.ca/international/europe/201812/11/01-5207665-fusillade-a-strasbourg-deux-morts-et-onze-blesses-le-tireur-en-fuite.php) until I can find something else.

Edit:
CBS News (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/strasbourg-france-christmas-market-shooting-today-2018-11-12-live-updates/)


You indicated that long wolf shooters are not terrorists.
do we also have a thread for mass shootings?  I thought they were merged...

At this point we have no idea what this is.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 11, 2018, 04:46:19 PM
Religion of peace not confirmed. Suspect was on watchlist though (fiché S) and it would not be the first time a Christmas market would be attacked by terrorists.
This low-cost terrorism used to have no access to automatic fire arms, if confirmed this even more worrying.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on December 11, 2018, 05:20:19 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on December 11, 2018, 04:46:19 PM
Religion of peace not confirmed. Suspect was on watchlist though (fiché S) and it would not be the first time a Christmas market would be attacked by terrorists.
This low-cost terrorism used to have no access to automatic fire arms, if confirmed this even more worrying.

:(

Quote

Eyewitness Peter Fritz told the BBC he heard gunfire and found a person who had been shot, lying on a bridge. He said he tried to resuscitate him but the man died.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46530265 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46530265)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 11, 2018, 05:34:07 PM
Religion of peace all but confirmed.
According to Le Figaro, the suspect is called Chérif C.

http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2018/12/11/01016-20181211LIVWWW00316-en-direct-strasbourg-fusillade-coups-de-feu.php#955968 (http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2018/12/11/01016-20181211LIVWWW00316-en-direct-strasbourg-fusillade-coups-de-feu.php#955968)

QuoteL'auteur s'appelle Chérif C., est né en 1989

Selon les informations du Figaro, l'auteur présumé de la fusillade s'appelle Chérif C. et est né en 1989.

It does not look like a "near 30 years-old rage afflicted individual".

4 dead people reported now, according to police sources.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on December 11, 2018, 07:52:29 PM
My money was on Québécois leftists.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on December 11, 2018, 10:00:00 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on December 11, 2018, 07:52:29 PM
My money was on Québécois leftists.
they're all in Paris.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 12, 2018, 08:12:13 AM
Quote from: viper37 on December 11, 2018, 10:00:00 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on December 11, 2018, 07:52:29 PM
My money was on Québécois leftists.
they're all in Paris.

Strasbourg is 1h50 away by TGV.  :tinfoil:
As for the "jihadi gangster", he has quite a record, 27 conviction in France, Germany and Switzerland. The first one when he was 10.
Lately, bank robbing.


Official now:

Islamist terrorism

QuoteProcureur de Paris : "Des témoins l'ont entendu crier "Allah akbar'" (sic) Allah 'o akbar (French translitteration)
Le procureur explique qu'il s'agit bien d'un acte terroriste. Ceci parce que le tueur a crié «Allah akbar» au moment de son action selon des témoins et que son profil correspond à celui d'un petit délinquant radicalisé.

» Le profil hybride de Chérif C., fiché S radicalisé et braqueur de banques

Among the victims, a Thai tourist.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on December 12, 2018, 09:12:47 AM
QuoteDonald J. Trump
‏@realDonaldTrump

Another very bad terror attack in France. We are going to strengthen our borders even more. Chuck and Nancy must give us the votes to get additional Border Security!
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on December 12, 2018, 09:17:04 AM
 :lol:

If a guy shoots 3 people in the US, does that even become national news anymore?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on December 12, 2018, 09:18:05 AM
Quote from: Tamas on December 12, 2018, 09:17:04 AM
:lol:

If a guy shoots 3 people in the US, does that even become national news anymore?

It does if the perp's a Muslim.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Grey Fox on December 12, 2018, 09:29:36 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 12, 2018, 09:18:05 AM
Quote from: Tamas on December 12, 2018, 09:17:04 AM
:lol:

If a guy shoots 3 people in the US, does that even become national news anymore?

It does if the perp's a Muslim.

It's not enough by it self. I'm sure a Muslim man shooting up his own family wouldn't make national news. Victims have to be white, cops/military or religious.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 12, 2018, 10:02:35 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on December 12, 2018, 09:29:36 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 12, 2018, 09:18:05 AM
Quote from: Tamas on December 12, 2018, 09:17:04 AM
:lol:

If a guy shoots 3 people in the US, does that even become national news anymore?

It does if the perp's a Muslim.

It's not enough by it self. I'm sure a Muslim man shooting up his own family wouldn't make national news. Victims have to be white, cops/military or religious.

There's a Thai tourist among the victims in Strasbourg, so the jury is still out on this one.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on December 12, 2018, 03:47:48 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on December 12, 2018, 08:12:13 AM
Quote from: viper37 on December 11, 2018, 10:00:00 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on December 11, 2018, 07:52:29 PM
My money was on Québécois leftists.
they're all in Paris.

Strasbourg is 1h50 away by TGV.  :tinfoil:
A true leftist would walk, to minimize his carbon footprint.  As I said, too far away for Québécois leftwing extremists ;)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 13, 2018, 06:02:02 AM
Quote from: viper37 on December 12, 2018, 03:47:48 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on December 12, 2018, 08:12:13 AM
Quote from: viper37 on December 11, 2018, 10:00:00 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on December 11, 2018, 07:52:29 PM
My money was on Québécois leftists.
they're all in Paris.

Strasbourg is 1h50 away by TGV.  :tinfoil:
A true leftist would walk, to minimize his carbon footprint.  As I said, too far away for Québécois leftwing extremists ;)

would walk = en marche = Macron's movement, so no.  :P
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on December 13, 2018, 10:28:40 AM
I didn't even think of this! 
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on December 13, 2018, 04:23:56 PM
They got him stone cold, no one else killed or injured.  :frog:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Liep on December 19, 2018, 04:44:11 PM
Two female students, one from Denmark the other from Norway, were killed while hiking in Morocco. They're now investigating it as terrorism as they have apparently been decapitated and there's supposed to be a film of it online.

:(

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 19, 2018, 05:15:06 PM
Quote from: Liep on December 19, 2018, 04:44:11 PM
Two female students, one from Denmark the other from Norway, were killed while hiking in Morocco. They're now investigating it as terrorism as they have apparently been decapitated and there's supposed to be a film of it online.

:(

The King of Morocco does not like attacks damaging tourism so rest assured, there will be consequences.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Solmyr on January 01, 2019, 10:36:34 AM
Far right racist terrorism in Germany (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-car-attack-far-right-crowd-injured-syrian-afgan-bottrop-a8706546.html)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on January 01, 2019, 05:13:55 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on January 01, 2019, 10:36:34 AM
Far right racist terrorism in Germany (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-car-attack-far-right-crowd-injured-syrian-afgan-bottrop-a8706546.html)


Something-something Religion of Peace?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Solmyr on January 02, 2019, 04:40:45 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 01, 2019, 05:13:55 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on January 01, 2019, 10:36:34 AM
Far right racist terrorism in Germany (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-car-attack-far-right-crowd-injured-syrian-afgan-bottrop-a8706546.html)


Something-something Religion of Peace?

Something-something mentally ill.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 02, 2019, 05:06:16 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on January 02, 2019, 04:40:45 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on January 01, 2019, 05:13:55 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on January 01, 2019, 10:36:34 AM
Far right racist terrorism in Germany (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-car-attack-far-right-crowd-injured-syrian-afgan-bottrop-a8706546.html)


Something-something Religion of Peace?

Something-something mentally ill.

A direct quote from the article.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on January 02, 2019, 07:34:22 PM
Curious how little the media is reporting that one where if a brown person so much as farts in a crowded train its big news.
Caught a few minutes of sky news earlier where it was all about some knifings over new years in London. An every day event one would think. But apparently no. Terrorists.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on January 02, 2019, 07:38:15 PM
Farting means something different than a knife attack in the US.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Oexmelin on January 15, 2019, 10:53:23 AM
The mayor of Gdańsk killed on stage last night during a charity event.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/world/europe/pawel-adamowicz-gdansk-mayor-dead.html
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: jimmy olsen on January 16, 2019, 06:32:12 PM
Awful

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/16/kenyan-president-says-nairobi-attack-over-all-militants-killed-al-shabaab

QuoteKenya's president has vowed to relentlessly pursue anyone involved in the Nairobi hotel complex attack, as new details of the 16-hour siege emerged and investigators tried to trace 50 people who are still missing.

Twenty-one people have so far been confirmed dead, including 11 Kenyans, a Briton and an American, as well as five attackers. The figure is expected to rise.


In a televised address on Wednesday, Kenya's president, Uhuru Kenyatta, said: "We will seek out every person who was involved in the funding, planning and execution of this heinous act. We will pursue them relentlessly wherever they will be until they are held accountable."

The assault on the complex, which includes the luxury dusitD2 hotel, restaurants, a spa and the offices of several international companies, was the most high-profile by terrorists in Kenya since 67 people were killed in the Westgate mall attack in Nairobi in 2013.

Al-Shabaab, the Somalia-based militant Islamist organisation  responsible for the attack five years ago, said it also carried out the assault on Tuesday.


The head of Kenya's police service, Joseph Boinnet, said five gunmen took part in the assault, including a suicide bomber who died in the first few minutes when he detonated his device in the hotel's foyer. Boinnet said security forces killed two of the gunmen on Tuesday night and that the two others died on Wednesday morning.

A heavily armed member of the British SAS who was reportedly on a training mission with Kenyan special forces was pictured helping to evacuate people during the attack.

Western and international security officials have told the Guardian they warned Kenyan counterparts over Christmas and New Year about the possibility of high-profile attacks by al-Shabaab, which is an affiliate of al-Qaida.

Survivors of the attack described chaos, fear and a long wait for help. Patrick Viera Nganga, 38, spent more than 12 hours hiding under a table before being rescued on Wednesday morning.

"I had just had lunch with friends and went to the bathroom when the explosion occurred at the entrance. Just two minutes later shooting started. I ran to the lobby and hid under a big table ... Two of the attackers entered and shot two persons there. One was firing continuously every direction. His phone rang and he answered, saying something I didn't understand," Nganga said. "I did not move. I played dead and was prepared to die. I stopped thinking about life. Night fell and I started praying. About 4am this morning, I heard police voices calling survivors to come out."

Robert Kamau, 41, was waiting for a job interview with a local company. He said: "The first I heard was a big boom ... Ten minutes later an employee at the hotel came running and told us it was a terrorist attack. Everybody ran for shelter. I saw a hotel guard who was trying to help an injured woman and we all ran to the emergency exit, but when I looked along the corridor, there was one attacker, a young, light-skinned guy with an AK47 rifle. He spotted us and began shooting."

Kamau, who was led out of the complex by police on Wednesday morning, added: "I thank God for being alive today. I thank those who rescued me as well."

A woman rescued from the hair salon she managed also survived the Westgate attack. "I was working when the attackers stormed in. It was not easy, just like today. All I can say is that I thank God," Tracy Wanjiru told Nairobi News.

Relatives of the dead and missing gathered at the nearby Chiromo mortuary.

The family of a missing 35-year-old man collapsed upon hearing that a body had arrived with his identification papers. "He is gone, he is gone," the father repeated into his phone as his mother wrapped a shawl around herself and wept.

Another family arrived, demanding to know whether their relative was there, but were told that only police had access. As they argued, an older couple arrived in silence, bringing a freshly pressed suit to dress their dead son.

Sylvia, 30, was searching for her boyfriend, who had recently arrived from Australia and booked into the dusitD2 hotel. She had identified his clothes at the mortuary, but was not allowed to view his body. "We spoke on the phone just before the attack and as we were still on the line, the explosion occurred, followed by gunfire. I have been looking for him since then," she said.

Sitting nearby were relatives and friends of Abdalla Dahir and Feisal Ahmed, two development professionals working on aid projects in Somalia who were having lunch together at a restaurant in the grounds of the hotel when the attack began.

Mohamed Abdillatif, a friend and colleague of Ahmed, described the pair as inseparable. "He [Ahmed] was an outgoing, funny guy, charismatic. He was loved by everybody."

Mohamud Yasin, a relative, said he did not know why people claiming to be Muslims were killing other Muslims. "This is nothing to do with Islam. It is terrorism, and terror has no religion. Terrorism does not have race, nor do they have belief. Islam is peace and a Muslim is he who saves others," he said.

Kenyatta sought to reassure Kenyans and foreign visitors that the country was safe. Tourism is a big industry in the country and many western businesses are based there.

Security has been considerably improved since the Westgate attack. But experts said al-Shabaab is adept at carrying out attacks after long periods when its commanders feel security services have become complacent.

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Liep on January 18, 2019, 04:30:30 AM
https://themoscowtimes.com/news/islamic-state-claims-responsibility-deadly-russian-apartment-blast-reports-64189

The blast that destroyed an apartment block in Magnitagorsk was the work of ISIS and not a gas leak. According to Isis at least.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on January 18, 2019, 07:31:40 AM
Quote from: Liep on January 18, 2019, 04:30:30 AM
https://themoscowtimes.com/news/islamic-state-claims-responsibility-deadly-russian-apartment-blast-reports-64189

The blast that destroyed an apartment block in Magnitagorsk was the work of ISIS and not a gas leak. According to Isis at least.


Isis -if it still exists- would claim a car crash if they thought they could get away with it.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: AnchorClanker on January 19, 2019, 09:00:39 AM
Quote from: Tamas on January 18, 2019, 07:31:40 AM
Quote from: Liep on January 18, 2019, 04:30:30 AM
https://themoscowtimes.com/news/islamic-state-claims-responsibility-deadly-russian-apartment-blast-reports-64189

The blast that destroyed an apartment block in Magnitagorsk was the work of ISIS and not a gas leak. According to Isis at least.


Isis -if it still exists- would claim a car crash if they thought they could get away with it.

It most certainly exists, not as a nation-state wannabe... but as a loose collective with some 'combatants' and others affiliated in some fashion... but yes, they can and will claim acts that they might not have planned or sanctioned ahead of time.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on February 21, 2019, 12:17:46 PM
One guy fortunately thwarted before he could strike.

https://www.wptv.com/news/world/christopher-hasson-coast-guardsman-accused-of-plotting-mass-terror-attack

QuoteChristopher Hasson: Coast Guardsman accused of plotting mass terror attack

Suspect had hit list of Democrats, TV hosts

WASHINGTON (AP) — A Coast Guard lieutenant who was arrested last week is a "domestic terrorist" who drafted an email discussing biological attacks and had what appeared to be a hit list that included prominent Democrats and media figures, prosecutors said in court papers.

Christopher Paul Hasson of Silver Spring, Maryland, is due to appear Thursday in federal court in Maryland after his arrest on gun and drug offenses, but prosecutors say those charges are the "proverbial tip of the iceberg."

"The defendant is a domestic terrorist, bent on committing acts dangerous to human life that are intended to affect governmental conduct," prosecutors wrote in court papers .

Hasson, who works at the Coast Guard's headquarters in Washington, has espoused extremist views for years, according to prosecutors. Court papers detail a June 2017 draft email in which Hasson wrote that he was "dreaming of a way to kill almost every last person on the earth," and pondering how he might be able to acquire anthrax and toxins to create botulism or a deadly influenza.

In the same email, Hasson described an "interesting idea" that included "biological attacks followed by attack on food supply" as well as a bombing and sniper attacks, according to court documents filed by prosecutors.

In September 2017, Hasson sent himself a draft letter that he had written to a neo-Nazi leader and "identified himself as a White Nationalist for over 30 years and advocated for 'focused violence' in order to establish a white homeland," prosecutors wrote.

Hasson routinely read portions of a manifesto written by Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik that prosecutors said instructs would-be assailants to collect firearms, food, disguises and survival tools, court papers said. Breivik, a right-wing extremist, is serving a 21-year sentence for killing 77 people in a 2011 bomb-and-shooting rampage.

Hasson also expressed admiration for Russia. "Looking to Russia with hopeful eyes or any land that despises the west's liberalism," he wrote in the draft email. Prosecutors say during the past two years he had regularly searched online for pro-Russian as well as neo-Nazi literature.

Prosecutors allege that Hasson visited thousands of websites that sold guns and researched military tactical manuals on improvised munitions.

Federal agents found 15 firearms — including several rifles — and over 1,000 rounds of ammunition inside Hasson's basement apartment in Silver Spring, Maryland. They also found a container with more than 30 bottles that were labeled as human growth hormone, court papers said.

Prosecutors wrote that Hasson "began the process of targeting specific victims," including several prominent Democrats in Congress and 2020 presidential candidates. In February 2018, he searched the internet for the "most liberal senators," as well as searching "do senators have ss (secret service) protection" and "are supreme court justices protected," according to the court filing.

Hasson's list of prominent Democrats included House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and presidential hopefuls Sens. Kirsten Gillibrand, Elizabeth Warren, Cory Booker and Kamala Harris.

The list — created in a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet — also included mentions of John Podesta, who was Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman, along with Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Maxine Waters, former Rep. Beto O'Rourke, MSNBC's Chris Hayes and Joe Scarborough and CNN's Chris Cuomo and Van Jones, according to the court filing.

Hasson appeared to be a chronic user of the opioid painkiller Tramadol and had purchased a flask filled with four ounces of "synthetic urine" online, prosecutors said. Authorities suspect Hasson had purchased fake urine to use in case he was randomly selected for a drug test.

The chief at the federal defender's office in Maryland — which is representing Hasson — declined to comment on the allegations. The Coast Guard did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Hasson's arrest. No one answered the door Wednesday at the home address for Hasson listed in public records.

Hasson's arrest on Feb. 15 was first noted by Seamus Hughes, the deputy director of the Program on Extremism at George Washington University.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: derspiess on February 21, 2019, 01:22:55 PM
Ugh, scary dude.  Glad they caught him.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: AnchorClanker on February 21, 2019, 02:36:49 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 21, 2019, 01:22:55 PM
Ugh, scary dude.  Glad they caught him.

This is scary, as this should have been caught in the background investigation a long time ago.  Sloppy, sloppy.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on February 21, 2019, 02:42:29 PM
NYT has a bit more.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/20/us/christopher-hasson-coast-guard.html?action=click&module=News&pgtype=Homepage

QuoteCoast Guard Officer Plotted to Kill Democrats and Journalists, Prosecutors Say

A Coast Guard lieutenant and self-described white nationalist who was arrested in Maryland last week was plotting to kill a long list of prominent journalists and Democratic politicians, as well as professors, judges and what he called "leftists in general," federal prosecutors said in a court filing on Tuesday.

Lt. Christopher Paul Hasson, 49, was arrested Friday on gun and drug charges, but prosecutors said in the filing that the charges were just the "proverbial tip of the iceberg."

The filing argued that Lieutenant Hasson should be held until he is tried, describing him as a "domestic terrorist" who intended "to murder innocent civilians on a scale rarely seen in this country."

[Sign up for the weekly At War newsletter to receive stories about duty, conflict and consequence.]

Prosecutors quoted a letter that he drafted to friends in 2017 and that the authorities found on his computer. In it, Lieutenant Hasson, who works as an acquisitions officer at Coast Guard headquarters in Washington, wrote: "I am dreaming of a way to kill almost every last person on the earth. I think a plague would be most successful but how do I acquire the needed / Spanish flu, botulism, anthrax not sure yet but will find something."

In the last month, prosecutors said, the lieutenant used his work computer :rolleyes: to draw up a list of prominent figures he called "traitors" and wanted to kill, including many well-known anchors and hosts on the CNN and MSNBC news networks and a number of Democratic elected officials. The list included, among others, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Representatives Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Maxine Waters, Senator Richard Blumenthal, whom he referred to as "Sen blumen jew," and many of the senators running for president in 2020.

He had recently performed internet searches seeking information about whether senators and Supreme Court justices receive Secret Service protection, the court filing said.

On Thursday, Senator Blumenthal told CNN that the authorities had not warned him that his name appeared on the list. "I found out from the news when I heard about it last night," he said.

In the letter quoted by prosecutors, Lieutenant Hasson wrote about wanting to start a race war, and pondered the best way to do it. "Much blood will have to be spilled to get whitey off the couch," he wrote.

He mused about taking advantage of some already tense issue, like the standoff in 2016 between Oregon protesters and the Bureau of Land Management. "Please send me your violence that I may unleash it onto their heads. Guide my hate to make a lasting impression on this world," he said in the letter.

Lieutenant Hasson served in the Marine Corps from 1988 to 1993, then approximately two years on active duty in the Army National Guard. He has held his current Coast Guard job since 2016, according to court documents.

A Coast Guard spokesman, Lt. Cdr. Scott McBride, confirmed on Wednesday that one of its service members stationed at headquarters in Washington had been arrested on weapons and drug charges, but declined to comment further on the case. "Because this is an open investigation, the Coast Guard has no further details at this time," Commander McBride said.

Federal investigators said in the court filing that Lieutenant Hasson had begun stockpiling weapons in 2017. When federal agents searched his cramped basement apartment in Silver Spring, Md., they said, they found a cache of 15 assault rifles, shotguns and handguns and more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition that the lieutenant had amassed.

The Program on Extremism at George Washington University called attention to the court filing in Twitter posts on Wednesday. In the filing, the authorities cited writings found on the lieutenant's computer that point to extreme racist and apocalyptic views.

Shortly after the violence incited by a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va., in 2017, the authorities say, Lieutenant Hasson drafted a letter to a well-known neo-Nazi expressing support for the idea of building a "white homeland" in the Pacific Northwest.

"I never saw a reason for mass protest or wearing uniforms marching around provoking people with swastikas etc.," he wrote. "I was and am a man of action, you cannot change minds protesting like that. However you can make change with a little focused violence."

In a passage of the letter quoted in the court filing, Lieutenant Hasson wrote, "I am a long time White Nationalist, having been a skinhead 30 plus years ago before my time in the military."

The authorities said Lieutenant Hasson had studied the 1,500-page manifesto that the mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik, a far-right Norwegian extremist who killed 77 people in 2011, wrote in the hope of inspiring other killers.

Following Mr. Breivik's advice about how to start a race war that would topple liberal governments, Lieutenant Hasson planned to assassinate prominent figures. He performed internet searches for the MSNBC host Joe Scarborough, among others, and for the phrase "civil war if Trump impeached," the authorities said.

Lieutenant Hasson's efforts appeared to intensify in January. The authorities say he searched for a section of Mr. Breivik's manifesto that advises other mass murderers to begin a six-week cycle of steroids once all their preparations for violent acts are complete. Federal agents said they had found a locked box in his apartment containing more than 30 vials of human growth hormone.

In the 2017 letter he drafted to friends, the lieutenant discussed ways that, acting alone, he might cause the most social chaos. "Food/fuel may be the key, if I can disrupt two or three weeks," he wrote. When people started to loot, steal or protest, he wrote, he would "dress as cop and shoot them. Burn down Apt complex, bar the doors first. Thermite on gas station tank."

He also wrote of plans to stockpile food and gear in hidden locations and to "learn basic chemistry" so that he could survive the civil disorder he hoped to cause.

The court filings did not make clear how the authorities had learned about Lieutenant Hasson's plans. The court documents noted, though, that in the last two years "the defendant conducted online searches and made thousands of visits for pro-Russian, neo-fascist, and neo-Nazi literature."
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: citizen k on February 21, 2019, 02:54:20 PM
Quote from: AnchorClanker on February 21, 2019, 02:36:49 PM
Quote from: derspiess on February 21, 2019, 01:22:55 PM
Ugh, scary dude.  Glad they caught him.

This is scary, as this should have been caught in the background investigation a long time ago.  Sloppy, sloppy.
Unless, he was being groomed.  :tinfoil:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Barrister on February 21, 2019, 02:56:26 PM
If the guy was a student of Breivik why didn't it occur to him that Breivik utterly failed to do what he set out to do (as indeed have all attempts at provoking a "race war", including Charles Manson).
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: AnchorClanker on February 21, 2019, 02:57:18 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 21, 2019, 02:56:26 PM
If the guy was a student of Breivik why didn't it occur to him that Breivik utterly failed to do what he set out to do (as indeed have all attempts at provoking a "race war", including Charles Manson).

A very good point.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on February 21, 2019, 02:58:08 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 21, 2019, 02:56:26 PM
If the guy was a student of Breivik why didn't it occur to him that Breivik utterly failed to do what he set out to do (as indeed have all attempts at provoking a "race war", including Charles Manson).

Because he would have done it right, and learned from Breivik's mistakes? :unsure:

At least that's what I assume such a guy's mindset would be.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on February 21, 2019, 03:04:25 PM
QuoteIn the letter quoted by prosecutors, Lieutenant Hasson wrote about wanting to start a race war, and pondered the best way to do it. "Much blood will have to be spilled to get whitey off the couch," he wrote.

Did I just get called "whitey" by a white supremacist? Damn it.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on February 21, 2019, 03:24:54 PM
Yet another a man who is a "law-abiding gunowner", up until the point where he isn't.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on February 21, 2019, 11:39:26 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 21, 2019, 02:56:26 PM
If the guy was a student of Breivik why didn't it occur to him that Breivik utterly failed to do what he set out to do (as indeed have all attempts at provoking a "race war", including Charles Manson).
it's like communism, it wasn't correctly applied?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 22, 2019, 02:25:48 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 21, 2019, 03:24:54 PM
Yet another a man who is a "law-abiding gunowner", up until the point where he isn't.

:huh:

He was arrested on weapons charges.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: FunkMonk on February 22, 2019, 12:23:44 PM
This news was fucking alarming when I heard about it. I work in DC and I can imagine having lunch somewhere during the week and him storming around throwing grenades through doors and firing three-round bursts into people. Or God forbid my wife is in a yoga studio somewhere and he decides to shoot the place up because yoga advances the liberal progressive agenda or some other crazy fucking shit.

Fuck this guy and put him away forever.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on February 22, 2019, 12:49:07 PM
I'm fine with putting him in prison for life, but I have no interest in having sex with him first.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on March 14, 2019, 09:30:58 PM
Reports from Christchurch, New Zealand say an active shooter is being hunted following an attack on a mosque that wounded several people:

Quote
A gunman opened fire in a mosque in New Zealand on Friday and there were several casualties, media reported, after police deployed armed officers in response to shots fired in the center of Christchurch city.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-newzealand-shootout/gunman-opens-fire-at-new-zealand-mosque-several-casualties-media-idUSKCN1QW05Y?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Reuters%2FworldNews+%28Reuters+World+News%29 (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-newzealand-shootout/gunman-opens-fire-at-new-zealand-mosque-several-casualties-media-idUSKCN1QW05Y?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Reuters%2FworldNews+%28Reuters+World+News%29)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on March 14, 2019, 10:58:19 PM
Those poor people. :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on March 14, 2019, 11:21:07 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 14, 2019, 10:58:19 PM
Those poor people. :(

Oh dear, it sounds real bad.


The far-right is on the march nearly everywhere?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on March 15, 2019, 01:07:58 AM
German paper says at least 4 suspects (3 men, 1 woman). A car with a bomb has been discovered, and supposedly a racist manifest was published shortly before the attack.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 15, 2019, 01:35:09 AM
Fucker live streamed it and had an AMA on 8chan right before.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on March 15, 2019, 01:38:43 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 15, 2019, 01:35:09 AM
Fucker live streamed it and had an AMA on 8chan right before.


What is an AMA?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sophie Scholl on March 15, 2019, 01:45:30 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 15, 2019, 01:38:43 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 15, 2019, 01:35:09 AM
Fucker live streamed it and had an AMA on 8chan right before.


What is an AMA?
Ask me anything.  Basically an open Q&A session for anyone who wants to ask the person questions about their field of expertise/experiences.  It's a Reddit thing.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on March 15, 2019, 02:06:10 AM
This is a bad one, forty dead  :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Threviel on March 15, 2019, 02:32:11 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 15, 2019, 01:35:09 AM
Fucker live streamed it and had an AMA on 8chan right before.

What did he say? I'm a wannabe terrorist that will go on a shooting spree later, ask me anything?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on March 15, 2019, 02:51:57 AM
Out of a morbid curiosity I looked at what Fox had to say.  This is the banner headline

QuoteAt least 40 dead in 'terrorist' shootings at 2 New Zealand mosques, 4 nabbed, IEDs found

Then there was something attacking AOC for criticizing "thoughts and prayers". :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Liep on March 15, 2019, 03:28:15 AM
:(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on March 15, 2019, 03:36:22 AM
Apparently the Australian guy said/wrote that he chose New Zealand as target to show that mass migration exists even in the most remote corners of the world.  :wacko:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: celedhring on March 15, 2019, 03:43:06 AM
Just woke up to this. Sick stuff. :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Monoriu on March 15, 2019, 03:49:10 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 15, 2019, 03:36:22 AM
Apparently the Australian guy said/wrote that he chose New Zealand as target to show that mass migration exists even in the most remote corners of the world.  :wacko:

New Zealand is the centre of the world  :mad:

(https://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h101/Monoriu/Map_of_the_world_with_auckland_at_the_center_zpsbyq23jgm.png) (https://s62.photobucket.com/user/Monoriu/media/Map_of_the_world_with_auckland_at_the_center_zpsbyq23jgm.png.html)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on March 15, 2019, 03:56:07 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 15, 2019, 03:36:22 AM
Apparently the Australian guy said/wrote that he chose New Zealand as target to show that mass migration exists even in the most remote corners of the world.  :wacko:

One wonders where he thinks white Australians come from?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on March 15, 2019, 06:31:09 AM
Quote from: mongers on March 14, 2019, 11:21:07 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 14, 2019, 10:58:19 PM
Those poor people. :(

Oh dear, it sounds real bad.


The far-right is on the march nearly everywhere?

My thoughts exactly. New Zealand is the last place on Earth I would have expected this. Probably why the terrorists chose it.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: FunkMonk on March 15, 2019, 07:14:32 AM
QuoteOn Friday, following a devastating attack at two mosques in New Zealand's Christchurch, an Australian senator proved that some far-right ideologues' justifications can sound harrowingly similar when Muslims are the victims. Muslims, far-right independent Queensland Senator Fraser Anning said, "may have been the victims today, usually they are the perpetrators."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/03/15/right-wing-australian-senator-blames-immigration-new-zealand-mosque-attacks/?utm_term=.0614daa8a833

What a massive piece of shit.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 15, 2019, 08:03:56 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 15, 2019, 01:38:43 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 15, 2019, 01:35:09 AM
Fucker live streamed it and had an AMA on 8chan right before.


What is an AMA?

Against Medical advice. I sign one a couple times a week.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on March 15, 2019, 08:16:04 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on March 15, 2019, 07:14:32 AM
QuoteOn Friday, following a devastating attack at two mosques in New Zealand's Christchurch, an Australian senator proved that some far-right ideologues' justifications can sound harrowingly similar when Muslims are the victims. Muslims, far-right independent Queensland Senator Fraser Anning said, "may have been the victims today, usually they are the perpetrators."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/03/15/right-wing-australian-senator-blames-immigration-new-zealand-mosque-attacks/?utm_term=.0614daa8a833

What a massive piece of shit.

Yes, and he deliberately uses Nazi imagery.  :(

QuoteAnning has faced harsh criticism from his colleagues before, especially after he resorted to language reminiscent of the Nazi description of the Holocaust when he called for a "final solution to the immigration problem."

Every day, the far right gets more threatening. Terror attacks, public sympathy expressed for the terrorists, 'of course murder is bad, but ... "
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on March 15, 2019, 08:56:57 AM
Quote from: Malthus on March 15, 2019, 06:31:09 AM
Quote from: mongers on March 14, 2019, 11:21:07 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 14, 2019, 10:58:19 PM
Those poor people. :(

Oh dear, it sounds real bad.


The far-right is on the march nearly everywhere?

My thoughts exactly. New Zealand is the last place on Earth I would have expected this. Probably why the terrorists chose it.
I never thought it would happen in Quebec city, so really, there's no surprise anymore for me.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on March 15, 2019, 09:07:21 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on March 15, 2019, 07:14:32 AM
QuoteOn Friday, following a devastating attack at two mosques in New Zealand's Christchurch, an Australian senator proved that some far-right ideologues' justifications can sound harrowingly similar when Muslims are the victims. Muslims, far-right independent Queensland Senator Fraser Anning said, "may have been the victims today, usually they are the perpetrators."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/03/15/right-wing-australian-senator-blames-immigration-new-zealand-mosque-attacks/?utm_term=.0614daa8a833

What a massive piece of shit.

He is hoping that 40-50% are silently nodding their heads and thinking "he's right you know". He may be right; extreme right-wing views are expressed all the time nowadays.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on March 15, 2019, 09:33:19 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on March 15, 2019, 07:14:32 AM
QuoteOn Friday, following a devastating attack at two mosques in New Zealand's Christchurch, an Australian senator proved that some far-right ideologues' justifications can sound harrowingly similar when Muslims are the victims. Muslims, far-right independent Queensland Senator Fraser Anning said, "may have been the victims today, usually they are the perpetrators."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/03/15/right-wing-australian-senator-blames-immigration-new-zealand-mosque-attacks/?utm_term=.0614daa8a833

What a massive piece of shit.

I mean I would like to say I am surprised and appalled or something but hell if our President tweeted that I wouldn't be too surprised these days.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Barrister on March 15, 2019, 09:52:15 AM
I wake up, check Languish, and see this?  :weep:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Oexmelin on March 15, 2019, 11:34:03 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on March 15, 2019, 09:07:21 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on March 15, 2019, 07:14:32 AM
QuoteOn Friday, following a devastating attack at two mosques in New Zealand's Christchurch, an Australian senator proved that some far-right ideologues' justifications can sound harrowingly similar when Muslims are the victims. Muslims, far-right independent Queensland Senator Fraser Anning said, "may have been the victims today, usually they are the perpetrators."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/03/15/right-wing-australian-senator-blames-immigration-new-zealand-mosque-attacks/?utm_term=.0614daa8a833

What a massive piece of shit.

He is hoping that 40-50% are silently nodding their heads and thinking "he's right you know". He may be right; extreme right-wing views are expressed all the time nowadays.

Yes. A cursory look in comments sections in major newspapers and outlets shows how they are amplified daily. In Canada recently, a news outlet had to close down comments because pieces of shit were celebrating the accidental death of a Syrian family in a fire. It's going through be the same with this piece of news.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on March 15, 2019, 01:38:26 PM
Man what a horrible thing. What a horrible day.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on March 15, 2019, 04:33:06 PM
Proportionate to population this massacre in New Zealand is similar to as the 9/11 attacks were for the USA.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on March 15, 2019, 05:10:21 PM
Rush Limbaugh weighs in:

https://www.mediamatters.org/video/2019/03/15/rush-limbaugh-suggests-new-zealand-shootings-might-be-false-flag-attack-committed-leftist-smear/223154

QuoteRUSH LIMBAUGH (HOST): The terrorist had published a manifesto and the manifesto includes the claim from the terrorist shooter that he's not a conservative, that he's not a Christian, that he identifies as an eco-fascist, and he adds that he disagrees with Trump on politics.

...

The idea that there is far more crazed right-wing terrorism in America than there is any other kind is nothing more than a media narrative manufactured out of whole cloth, and it's just waiting for events like this to take place, and this is what happens, folks. I don't know, you probably get up and you see this news story and you just -- in addition to all of the emotion you have over the sheer shock, terror, and horror of it all, then you realize you're going to face a whole day of the politicization of it. You realize you're going to face a whole day of Donald Trump being blamed for it, or you being blamed for it, or things you believe in being blamed for it.

...

Another thing that happens here when these events happen, you have all kinds of speculation that erupts. And there is an ongoing theory -- Mr. Snerdley, correct me if I'm wrong about this. There's an ongoing theory that the shooter himself may in fact be a leftist who writes the manifesto and then goes out and performs the deed purposely to smear his political enemies, knowing he's going to get shot in the process. You know you just can't -- you can't immediately discount this. The left is this insane, they are this crazy. And then if that's exactly what the guy is trying to do then he's hit a home run, because right there on Fox News: "Shooter is an admitted white nationalist who hates immigrants."

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on March 15, 2019, 05:22:18 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 15, 2019, 05:10:21 PM
Rush Limbaugh weighs in:

QuoteRUSH LIMBAUGH (HOST): The terrorist had published a manifesto and the manifesto includes the claim from the terrorist shooter that he's not a conservative, that he's not a Christian, that he identifies as an eco-fascist, and he adds that he disagrees with Trump on politics.
...
Another thing that happens here when these events happen, you have all kinds of speculation that erupts. And there is an ongoing theory -- Mr. Snerdley, correct me if I'm wrong about this. There's an ongoing theory that the shooter himself may in fact be a leftist who writes the manifesto and then goes out and performs the deed purposely to smear his political enemies, knowing he's going to get shot in the process. You know you just can't -- you can't immediately discount this. The left is this insane, they are this crazy. And then if that's exactly what the guy is trying to do then he's hit a home run, because right there on Fox News: "Shooter is an admitted white nationalist who hates immigrants."


It's a mirror world isn't it?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on March 15, 2019, 05:43:59 PM
It is always about him and his agenda. Fuck those dead people.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 15, 2019, 06:01:05 PM
Seems Rush has crazied himself up to the point he's attacking Fox News.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on March 15, 2019, 09:00:11 PM
Shocking that the websites of the the Daily Mail and the Daily Mirror newspapers hosted exerts of the gunman's murder video.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on March 15, 2019, 09:18:58 PM
Terrorist propaganda? Why would they do that?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 15, 2019, 09:25:28 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 15, 2019, 06:01:05 PM
Seems Rush has crazied himself up to the point he's attacking Fox News.

That's not even the crazy part.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on March 15, 2019, 09:28:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on March 15, 2019, 09:18:58 PM
Terrorist propaganda? Why would they do that?

Click-bate advertising revenue.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 16, 2019, 07:56:29 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 15, 2019, 09:33:19 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on March 15, 2019, 07:14:32 AM
QuoteOn Friday, following a devastating attack at two mosques in New Zealand's Christchurch, an Australian senator proved that some far-right ideologues' justifications can sound harrowingly similar when Muslims are the victims. Muslims, far-right independent Queensland Senator Fraser Anning said, "may have been the victims today, usually they are the perpetrators."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/03/15/right-wing-australian-senator-blames-immigration-new-zealand-mosque-attacks/?utm_term=.0614daa8a833

What a massive piece of shit.

I mean I would like to say I am surprised and appalled or something but hell if our President tweeted that I wouldn't be too surprised these days.

The only reason this guy is senator is because the guy who was actually elected was discovered after the election to be ineligible. This guy literally had only 19 votes and fluked his way into power. He was later kicked out of this white nationalist party for being too racist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_Anning#cite_ref-9
QuoteAnning was third on the One Nation senate ticket in Queensland at the 2016 federal election. He gained just 19 below-the-line first-preference votes under the optional preferential voting system.[9] Due to its high statewide count, One Nation elected two senators in Queensland at the 2016 election – party leader Pauline Hanson and Malcolm Roberts. In October 2017, during the parliamentary eligibility crisis, the Court of Disputed Returns ruled Roberts was ineligible to be elected to the Senate due to his failure to renounce his British citizenship.[10] The following month, on 10 November, Anning was declared elected in place of Roberts following a special recount.[11] Prior to his elevation to the Senate, he was facing bankruptcy legal action due to money owed to the Bendigo and Adelaide Bank. This could have made him ineligible to sit in parliament, but the case was withdrawn.[1]
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on March 16, 2019, 08:13:22 AM
So apparently the members of a large HOI4 Discord community got carpet banned.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/mass-banning-of-hoi4-community-players-on-discord.1160651/

I don't know the server "The Tribe", but apparently there was some cheering for the mass shooting with an admin making memes about it? :unsure:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on March 16, 2019, 09:14:21 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 16, 2019, 08:13:22 AM
So apparently the members of a large HOI4 Discord community got carpet banned.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/mass-banning-of-hoi4-community-players-on-discord.1160651/

I don't know the server "The Tribe", but apparently there was some cheering for the mass shooting with an admin making memes about it? :unsure:

wtf. good job that racists stuff wasn't on the paradox forums.

edit:
some of those comments in the paradox thread complaining about the mass banning are hilarious:

Quote
Collective punishment is a violation of the Geneva Convention. While getting banned from a server and being executed because there was some resistance fighter in your town is obviously not the same thing, it is interesting to see that there are so many people on this forum that have the same philosophical mindset as war criminals.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 16, 2019, 11:46:53 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 16, 2019, 07:56:29 AM
The only reason this guy is senator is because the guy who was actually elected was discovered after the election to be ineligible. This guy literally had only 19 votes and fluked his way into power. He was later kicked out of this white nationalist party for being too racist.

He got 19 first preference votes, not 19 votes total.  And the person who was disqualified was another Nazi.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on March 16, 2019, 11:55:57 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 16, 2019, 11:46:53 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on March 16, 2019, 07:56:29 AM
The only reason this guy is senator is because the guy who was actually elected was discovered after the election to be ineligible. This guy literally had only 19 votes and fluked his way into power. He was later kicked out of this white nationalist party for being too racist.

He got 19 first preference votes, not 19 votes total.  And the person who was disqualified was another Nazi.

Huh, even White Nationalists and Nazi's have a line. Who would have thought.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on March 16, 2019, 01:32:49 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1ylLfSWoAIKiSg?format=jpg&name=medium)

The subreddits for Paradox games all have reminders that racist or anti-Muslim posts will not be tolerated. :unsure:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Oexmelin on March 16, 2019, 01:56:03 PM
Yes, it's a real thing. Same in college - medieval history is being taken by white supremacists students.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: PDH on March 16, 2019, 02:12:40 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 16, 2019, 01:56:03 PM
Yes, it's a real thing. Same in college - medieval history is being taken by white supremacists students.

Great - now I can't tell anyone I got my MA in Medieval History.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on March 16, 2019, 02:20:14 PM
I think this mixes up cause and effect. If you get a hard-on from the thought of shiny white knights ruling over a shiny white land, then of course you'll be attracted to a game that represents a period of history which has exactly that as its idealised version.

But learning about medieval history, idealised or not, will not make you a white supremacist on its own.


In general, we, or our educators, seek to reinforce our existing (or intended) world views with "lessons" from history. It takes an open mind to try and use history to expand your horizons, and if you are willing to do that, you are already not in danger of being some radical dimwit.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on March 16, 2019, 02:27:27 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 16, 2019, 01:32:49 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1ylLfSWoAIKiSg?format=jpg&name=medium)

The subreddits for Paradox games all have reminders that racist or anti-Muslim posts will not be tolerated. :unsure:

So Paradox is a White Supremacist platform.  :lol:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Legbiter on March 16, 2019, 03:11:57 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 16, 2019, 02:27:27 PMSo Paradox is a White Supremacist platform.  :lol:

It's Vice....

Here's how their journalism works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia7fUQXskvA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia7fUQXskvA)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on March 16, 2019, 03:25:02 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 16, 2019, 01:56:03 PM
Yes, it's a real thing. Same in college - medieval history is being taken by white supremacists students.


I suppose that's an opportunity to teach the students about the importance of Maimonides and Avicenna.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on March 16, 2019, 03:27:00 PM
You'd think medieval history would attract Muslim extremists and Chinese ultra-nationalists, not white supremacists, considering how backward Christian Europe was at the time.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on March 16, 2019, 03:41:20 PM
Quote from: Legbiter on March 16, 2019, 03:11:57 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 16, 2019, 02:27:27 PMSo Paradox is a White Supremacist platform.  :lol:

It's Vice....

Here's how their journalism works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia7fUQXskvA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia7fUQXskvA)

:lol:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Oexmelin on March 16, 2019, 03:46:21 PM
White supremacists don't care about "backwardness" (and neither do historians, tbh): white supremacists care about whiteness, and jerk off to the idea of Crusades.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Oexmelin on March 16, 2019, 03:49:30 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 16, 2019, 02:27:27 PM
So Paradox is a White Supremacist platform.  :lol:

Not what it says.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on March 16, 2019, 03:58:37 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 16, 2019, 03:49:30 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 16, 2019, 02:27:27 PM
So Paradox is a White Supremacist platform.  :lol:

Not what it says.

Don't care
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 16, 2019, 03:59:16 PM
Quote from: dps on March 16, 2019, 03:27:00 PM
You'd think medieval history would attract Muslim extremists and Chinese ultra-nationalists, not white supremacists, considering how backward Christian Europe was at the time.

Medieval History is more than the Dark Ages in Europe though.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on March 16, 2019, 04:04:47 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 16, 2019, 03:58:37 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 16, 2019, 03:49:30 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on March 16, 2019, 02:27:27 PM
So Paradox is a White Supremacist platform.  :lol:

Not what it says.

Don't care

Then why post?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Threviel on March 16, 2019, 04:13:11 PM
WTF is discord?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 16, 2019, 04:16:22 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 16, 2019, 03:46:21 PM
White supremacists don't care about "backwardness" (and neither do historians, tbh): white supremacists care about whiteness, and jerk off to the idea of Crusades.

Smiting in general I imagine, of which there was plenty.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Oexmelin on March 16, 2019, 04:18:58 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 16, 2019, 04:16:22 PM
Smiting in general I imagine, of which there was plenty.

Smiting? You mean violence?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 16, 2019, 04:19:41 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 16, 2019, 04:18:58 PM
Smiting? You mean violence?

With edged weapons, to be specific.

Takes backs.  You can smite with any melee weapon, like a mace or hammer.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 16, 2019, 04:21:37 PM
Quote from: dps on March 16, 2019, 03:27:00 PM
You'd think medieval history would attract Muslim extremists and Chinese ultra-nationalists, not white supremacists, considering how backward Christian Europe was at the time.

Not in universities in the West.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 16, 2019, 04:23:04 PM
Quote from: Threviel on March 16, 2019, 04:13:11 PM
WTF is discord?

Some voice chat app I think.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Oexmelin on March 16, 2019, 04:26:05 PM
@Yi

Oh, yes. It's part of the current crypto-fascist obsession with strength (as befit fascists) and the alleged weakness of their enemies (see "c*u*c*k", "snowflakes", "pussies", homophobic rhetoric because gay = weak, Jewish money, incel resentment against non-submissive women, rah-rah guns, etc., etc.). The Middle Ages are seen as a period which appropriately glorified might.

I should know. I teach a class on violence from 15th - 17th century. I now have to address these issues first hand.

Edit: I had forgotten that Jacob rightfully trolled Marti by censoring c*u*c*k with "kind and sensitive person".
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on March 16, 2019, 04:31:54 PM
Can even be more primitive than middle ages - see the idolizing of Celtic or Germanic pre-Christian tribes in certain circles.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Oexmelin on March 16, 2019, 04:37:56 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 16, 2019, 04:31:54 PM
Can even be more primitive than middle ages - see the idolizing of Celtic or Germanic pre-Christian tribes in certain circles.

Yes. That  association with primitivism goes back to the late 19th century racism (the superiority of the Saxons) and 30s fascist movements .
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 16, 2019, 04:42:50 PM
Actually, Fascism glorified the Roman Empire. Though Mussolini was once a futurist.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: frunk on March 16, 2019, 04:49:11 PM
I think they grab onto absolutely anything and everything they can to justify why they should be allowed to do very ugly things to people who look or act different. 
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on March 16, 2019, 07:05:54 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 16, 2019, 04:26:05 PMrah-rah guns

What the heck's that?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Oexmelin on March 16, 2019, 07:14:35 PM
Quote from: dps on March 16, 2019, 07:05:54 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 16, 2019, 04:26:05 PMrah-rah guns

What the heck's that?

The sort of celebration of guns as a means to inflict violence upon opponents. All those hypothetical scenarios about at long last being able to shoot these liberals . Like, you know, the President of the United Ststes just did.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on March 16, 2019, 09:25:45 PM
Quote from: Oexmelin on March 16, 2019, 07:14:35 PM
Like, you know, the President of the United Ststes just did.
He's making America great again! :mad:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 16, 2019, 10:06:45 PM
Quote from: frunk on March 16, 2019, 04:49:11 PM
I think they grab onto absolutely anything and everything they can to justify why they should be allowed to do very ugly things to people who look or act different.

I think it's all redirected resentment of their mother for not giving them enough affection.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Larch on March 18, 2019, 05:51:26 AM
There's been breaking news of a shooting in Utrecht.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on March 18, 2019, 07:33:16 AM
Reports of a gunman outside my office have been greatly exaggerated. Missed my lunch break  :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on March 18, 2019, 08:26:24 AM
Great, they won't let me go home  <_<
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on March 18, 2019, 08:44:40 AM
Just got a glimpse of the news were they talked of "multiple shooters".  Can't verify it right now.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on March 18, 2019, 08:45:35 AM
Do you live/work in Utrecht, Maladict?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on March 18, 2019, 09:08:16 AM
Quote from: Valmy on March 18, 2019, 08:45:35 AM
Do you live/work in Utrecht, Maladict?

Yeah, both.

Three dead confirmed so far.  :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on March 18, 2019, 09:11:17 AM
:(

Has the perp been apprehended yet?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on March 18, 2019, 09:11:40 AM
Quote from: viper37 on March 18, 2019, 08:44:40 AM
Just got a glimpse of the news were they talked of "multiple shooters".  Can't verify it right now.

One shooter probably, 37 year old from Turkey.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on March 18, 2019, 09:13:25 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 18, 2019, 09:11:17 AM
:(

Has the perp been apprehended yet?

No, but his car may have been found in the city.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: miozozny on March 18, 2019, 09:16:40 AM
Quote from: Maladict on March 18, 2019, 09:11:40 AM
Quote from: viper37 on March 18, 2019, 08:44:40 AM
Just got a glimpse of the news were they talked of "multiple shooters".  Can't verify it right now.

One shooter probably, 37 year old from Turkey.

Apparently he had been in court earlier this month accused of rape.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on March 18, 2019, 09:17:26 AM
Quote from: miozozny on March 18, 2019, 09:16:40 AM

Apparently he had been in court earlier this month accused of rape.

Lots or rumours swirling around atm.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: miozozny on March 18, 2019, 09:26:56 AM
Quote from: Maladict on March 18, 2019, 09:17:26 AM
Quote from: miozozny on March 18, 2019, 09:16:40 AM

Apparently he had been in court earlier this month accused of rape.

Lots or rumours swirling around atm.

Yeah. I do get the feeling this was not a terrorist attack tbh.
He doesn't seem to be a white supremacist and it seems like a weird spot for a muslim-inspired attack. Why pick a spot with an above average amount of muslims living there?
And why not plan the attack during rush hour if you want to hurt as many people as possible?

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on March 18, 2019, 09:28:35 AM
Quote from: miozozny on March 18, 2019, 09:26:56 AM


Yeah. I do get the feeling this was not a terrorist attack tbh.



Yeah, that's what I've been thinking from the start. Seems more like a revenge killing with some unfortunate bystanders getting hit.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on March 18, 2019, 12:28:41 PM
They got him. Good timing, I was getting hungry.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on April 21, 2019, 12:32:24 AM
Easter morning explosions in [edit: 2 Catholic churches and an evangelical church] across Sri Lanka and 3 luxury hotels in Colombo

QuoteSri Lanka explosions: 20 killed as churches and hotels targeted
At least 20 people are reported to have been killed and more than 200 injured in explosions at churches and hotels in Sri Lanka.

At least six explosions have been reported. Three churches in Kochchikade, Katuwapitiya and Batticaloa were targeted.

The Shangri La, Cinnamon Grand and Kingsbury hotels, all in Colombo, were also hit

Easter Sunday is one of the major feasts in the Christian calendar.

Images on social media showed the inside of one of the churches - St Sebastian's in Katuwapitiya - with a shattered ceiling and blood on the pews.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48001720 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48001720)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on April 21, 2019, 02:03:55 AM
100+ dead now. This is a bad one.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 21, 2019, 02:56:52 AM
At least 160 dead now.  :(

https://www.newsfirst.lk/2019/04/21/explosion-at-the-st-anthonys-church-in-kochikade/
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on April 21, 2019, 04:43:13 AM
:(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on April 21, 2019, 05:22:53 AM
This is horrible. :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on April 21, 2019, 06:33:24 AM
:( :angry:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Zanza on April 21, 2019, 07:19:59 AM
Damn, I was in Sri Lanka over New Years and it seemed so peaceful and I recommended it as a tourism target. Really sad to see this violence.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on April 21, 2019, 08:55:44 AM
Awful  :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 22, 2019, 01:47:56 AM
 :( :( :(

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1120184212731117569

QuoteThe New York Times

What we know so far about the Sri Lanka bombings:

— 24 people are in police custody
— Nearly 300 people were killed and more than 500 wounded
— A nationwide curfew was lifted on Monday, but major social media and messaging services remained blocked
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 22, 2019, 09:59:31 AM
Sri Lankan governement blames a local islamist group, National Thowheeth Jama'ath (NTJ).
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: KRonn on April 22, 2019, 08:15:56 PM
Very sad, my condolences to the families. Another act in a long line of killings of Christians by Islamic terrorists throughout the region, especially parts of the Mid East.  :( :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on April 22, 2019, 09:35:06 PM
To be fair, it's another act in a long line of killings (more Muslims than non-Muslims) by Islamic terrorists throughout the region. 
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on April 22, 2019, 10:46:14 PM
Have we got some sort of confirmation on who did this?  Anyone claim credit?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on April 23, 2019, 12:16:29 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 22, 2019, 10:46:14 PM
Have we got some sort of confirmation on who did this?  Anyone claim credit?
Confirmation, sort of.  Credit, no.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 23, 2019, 08:23:37 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 22, 2019, 10:46:14 PM
Have we got some sort of confirmation on who did this?  Anyone claim credit?

ISIS claimed it, but the government blamed local groups. Maybe the former assisted the later.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/23/world/asia/sri-lanka-bombing.html
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on April 23, 2019, 10:40:25 AM
ISIS takes credit for any terrorism act by a muslim.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on April 23, 2019, 12:26:41 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 23, 2019, 10:40:25 AM
ISIS takes credit for any terrorism act by a muslim.

At this point, ISIS is desperate enough to remain relevant that if you hit your thumb with a hammer while trying to drive a nail, and they hear about it, they'll take credit for it.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tonitrus on April 23, 2019, 04:54:57 PM
Quote from: dps on April 23, 2019, 12:26:41 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 23, 2019, 10:40:25 AM
ISIS takes credit for any terrorism act by a muslim.

At this point, ISIS is desperate enough to remain relevant that if you hit your thumb with a hammer while trying to drive a nail, and they hear about it, they'll take credit for it.

Well of course, that hammer's blow was in line with the will of Allah and all that.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on April 23, 2019, 09:41:48 PM
The Church of Notre-Dame burnt by Allah's will, because France banned the veil.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on April 24, 2019, 03:55:58 PM

Quote

The death toll rose again to 359 on Wednesday, with more than 500 people wounded.


The news gets grimmer by the day and there are still some categorised as missing, I'm guessing in part due to the horrific design of the suicide bombs.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on April 25, 2019, 05:34:45 PM
Not 'good news' but less people have died than feared and for a grim reason:

Quote
Krishnan Guru-Murthy
@krishgm    5h
BREAKING news but grim reason for it. Sri Lanka Director General of Health Services tells Channel 4 News the death toll is actually 252 (and may rise a little above that) but previous estimates of 359 were inaccurate because of body parts being wrongly counted

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on April 25, 2019, 09:52:12 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 23, 2019, 09:41:48 PM
The Church of Notre-Dame burnt by Allah's will, because France banned the veil.


What the fuck is your problem?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on April 25, 2019, 09:55:41 PM
He was being sarcastic Raz.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on April 25, 2019, 10:09:12 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 25, 2019, 09:52:12 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 23, 2019, 09:41:48 PM
The Church of Notre-Dame burnt by Allah's will, because France banned the veil.


What the fuck is your problem?
https://www.thepostmillennial.com/quebec-politician-jokes-that-religious-symbol-bans-are-to-blame-for-church-fires/ (https://www.thepostmillennial.com/quebec-politician-jokes-that-religious-symbol-bans-are-to-blame-for-church-fires/)
QuoteAccording to La Presse (https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/201904/16/01-5222456-incendie-de-notre-dame-manon-masse-se-distancie-deve-torres.php), Torres, a Muslim woman, said that banning religious signs can stir up the wrath of "the imaginary friend,"  then saying "here is the result!" Implying that the religious symbol ban provoked God to set the cathedral on fire.

She continued to say that if she was the Premier, she would "have firefighters sleep at the Basilica of Notre-Dame Street" in Montreal.

The comments made here are presumably related to Quebec's own religious symbol ban, Bill 21. The implication is that if Quebec is also banning religious symbols, a controversial move by the CAQ government that has made headlines, that perhaps Montreal's own Notre Dame basilica should be under close observations for fires. Just in case God were to decide to set it ablaze, or anything of that nature.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on April 26, 2019, 11:56:12 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 25, 2019, 09:52:12 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 23, 2019, 09:41:48 PM
The Church of Notre-Dame burnt by Allah's will, because France banned the veil.


What the fuck is your problem?

I hear that kind of stuff from nutty Christians plenty. I fully expect that nutty Muslims think the same way.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on April 26, 2019, 02:34:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 26, 2019, 11:56:12 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 25, 2019, 09:52:12 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 23, 2019, 09:41:48 PM
The Church of Notre-Dame burnt by Allah's will, because France banned the veil.


What the fuck is your problem?

I hear that kind of stuff from nutty Christians plenty. I fully expect that nutty Muslims think the same way.

The distressing thought is that Viper has adopted nutty Islam.  :D
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on April 26, 2019, 04:22:36 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 25, 2019, 10:09:12 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 25, 2019, 09:52:12 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 23, 2019, 09:41:48 PM
The Church of Notre-Dame burnt by Allah's will, because France banned the veil.


What the fuck is your problem?
https://www.thepostmillennial.com/quebec-politician-jokes-that-religious-symbol-bans-are-to-blame-for-church-fires/ (https://www.thepostmillennial.com/quebec-politician-jokes-that-religious-symbol-bans-are-to-blame-for-church-fires/)
QuoteAccording to La Presse (https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/201904/16/01-5222456-incendie-de-notre-dame-manon-masse-se-distancie-deve-torres.php), Torres, a Muslim woman, said that banning religious signs can stir up the wrath of "the imaginary friend,"  then saying "here is the result!" Implying that the religious symbol ban provoked God to set the cathedral on fire.

She continued to say that if she was the Premier, she would "have firefighters sleep at the Basilica of Notre-Dame Street" in Montreal.

The comments made here are presumably related to Quebec's own religious symbol ban, Bill 21. The implication is that if Quebec is also banning religious symbols, a controversial move by the CAQ government that has made headlines, that perhaps Montreal's own Notre Dame basilica should be under close observations for fires. Just in case God were to decide to set it ablaze, or anything of that nature.


Great.  Why the fuck did you bring it up?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on April 26, 2019, 06:00:52 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 26, 2019, 04:22:36 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 25, 2019, 10:09:12 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 25, 2019, 09:52:12 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 23, 2019, 09:41:48 PM
The Church of Notre-Dame burnt by Allah's will, because France banned the veil.


What the fuck is your problem?
https://www.thepostmillennial.com/quebec-politician-jokes-that-religious-symbol-bans-are-to-blame-for-church-fires/ (https://www.thepostmillennial.com/quebec-politician-jokes-that-religious-symbol-bans-are-to-blame-for-church-fires/)
QuoteAccording to La Presse (https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/201904/16/01-5222456-incendie-de-notre-dame-manon-masse-se-distancie-deve-torres.php), Torres, a Muslim woman, said that banning religious signs can stir up the wrath of "the imaginary friend,"  then saying "here is the result!" Implying that the religious symbol ban provoked God to set the cathedral on fire.

She continued to say that if she was the Premier, she would "have firefighters sleep at the Basilica of Notre-Dame Street" in Montreal.

The comments made here are presumably related to Quebec's own religious symbol ban, Bill 21. The implication is that if Quebec is also banning religious symbols, a controversial move by the CAQ government that has made headlines, that perhaps Montreal's own Notre Dame basilica should be under close observations for fires. Just in case God were to decide to set it ablaze, or anything of that nature.


Great.  Why the fuck did you bring it up?
because I knew you would react to this and explode in a typical fashion you have adopted against me lately.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on April 26, 2019, 06:39:15 PM
You could just stop stating falsehoods.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 26, 2019, 06:53:04 PM
Allah will smite you for your disbelief.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on April 26, 2019, 06:56:32 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 26, 2019, 02:34:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 26, 2019, 11:56:12 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 25, 2019, 09:52:12 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 23, 2019, 09:41:48 PM
The Church of Notre-Dame burnt by Allah's will, because France banned the veil.


What the fuck is your problem?

I hear that kind of stuff from nutty Christians plenty. I fully expect that nutty Muslims think the same way.

The distressing thought is that Viper has adopted nutty Islam.  :D

:lol:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on April 27, 2019, 04:13:36 PM
Someone shot up a synagogue in San Diego.  Apparently no fatalities, thank God, but several injured.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 27, 2019, 04:47:17 PM
Dang.  US is a free fire zone.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on April 27, 2019, 04:51:11 PM
1 killed 3 injured.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on April 27, 2019, 05:16:09 PM
Another 4chan shooter.  Put up a manifesto about cultural Marxism and other bullshit.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on April 28, 2019, 01:22:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 26, 2019, 06:39:15 PM
You could just stop stating falsehoods.
and this is false, how...?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on April 28, 2019, 01:22:52 PM
Quote from: Malthus on April 26, 2019, 02:34:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 26, 2019, 11:56:12 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 25, 2019, 09:52:12 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 23, 2019, 09:41:48 PM
The Church of Notre-Dame burnt by Allah's will, because France banned the veil.


What the fuck is your problem?

I hear that kind of stuff from nutty Christians plenty. I fully expect that nutty Muslims think the same way.

The distressing thought is that Viper has adopted nutty Islam.  :D
I am versatile in my nuttyness ;)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on April 29, 2019, 01:48:29 AM
The other week it did seem fairly common for radicalised morons online to blame notre same on Muslims. Pff
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on April 29, 2019, 07:00:10 AM
Religious minorities, particularly Jews and Muslims, definitely have the feeling of having a bit of a target painted on them recently.  :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: jimmy olsen on April 30, 2019, 06:56:37 AM
Al Baghdadi lives <_<

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/baghdadi-is-backand-vows-that-isis-will-be-too
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 01, 2019, 11:32:34 AM
Fake news, ISIS is defeated.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on May 02, 2019, 01:04:50 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 01, 2019, 11:32:34 AM
Fake news, ISIS is defeated.

They were at some point within 30 days of January 20, 2017 IIRC
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Zanza on June 17, 2019, 12:17:45 PM
QuoteWalter Lübcke murder raises specter of neo-Nazi terrorism

A suspected neo-Nazi's arrest in the Kassel politician's murder case has focused concerns on far-right terrorism in Germany. The city is home to an extremist scene and was the location of a notorious NSU murder in 2006.

Germany's federal prosecutors have taken over the investigation into the murder of Walter Lübcke, indicating that the killing of the Kassel district president on June 2 is being treated as a politically-motivated terrorist act.

A number of German outlets have reported details of the alleged far-right ties of the suspect arrested in the city of Kassel in the early hours of Sunday morning.

The German daily Süddeutsche Zeitung reported on Monday that the 45-year-old man, named only as Stephan E., had a long criminal record, had already issued death threats via his YouTube channel, and that weapons were found during the search of his home.

According to the paper, Stephan E. had written a comment on YouTube in 2018 under his alias Game Over that read "Either this government abdicates soon or there will be deaths."

Few facts confirmed

Citing sources within security forces, the paper, along with public broadcasters NDR and WDR, said the suspect had been active in extreme-right groups, including the domestic neo-Nazi National Democratic Party (NPD) and a group known as the Autonomen Nationalisten (Autonomous Nationalists), a pan-European neo-Nazi group that has adopted some Antifa and far-left tactics.

Stephan E. is also believed to have been sentenced to six years in prison for an attempted bomb attack on a refugee home in 1995. He was also reported to have taken part in an attack on a trade union demonstration in 2009.

Officially, however, the federal prosecutors were giving little away about the investigation surrounding the suspect. Press spokesman Markus Schmitt appeared briefly before the cameras in Karlsruhe on Monday afternoon to confirm that the murder was being treated as a far-right extremist crime. He added that there was no indication yet that the suspect indeed belonged to a particular neo-Nazi terrorist cell, but that police were investigating whether others may have been involved.

:( Really bad development if the crazies turn to terrorism. I hope they crack down on these assholes with the full force of the law. But considering the right-wing sympathies in our law enforcement agencies, I have doubts. Let's see.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Zoupa on June 17, 2019, 12:25:42 PM
Quote from: Zanza on June 17, 2019, 12:17:45 PM
:( Really bad development if the crazies turn to terrorism. I hope they crack down on these assholes with the full force of the law. But considering the right-wing sympathies in our law enforcement agencies, I have doubts. Let's see.

Wtf  :shutup: 

2030 can't come soon enough...
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Zanza on June 17, 2019, 12:27:07 PM
What happens in 2030?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on June 17, 2019, 12:52:10 PM
German law enforcement has long had a reputation of "being blind in the right eye." Former head of the domestic security agency was an especially egregious case who downplayed the problems with radical right wingers, cozied up to the AfD, and claimed that the Social Democrats were harboring left wing radicals.

But even without him there's the blunders with regards to the murders by the National Socialist Underground, the xenophobe hate sent by members of the Frankfurt police, etc.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on June 17, 2019, 03:27:20 PM
I used to think the laws in Germany that banned symbols of hate were stupid.  I believed that holocaust denial shouldn't be a crime.  I've revised some of opinion's recently. :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on June 17, 2019, 03:36:20 PM
Denying false definitions of the Holocaust?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on August 02, 2019, 08:13:38 PM
Reading an article about the Dawson's Field hijackings, it almost seems 'quaint' compared with the terrorism people in some poor countries and we in the West now face; think of young children being used as suicide bomber in Nigerian market places vs Palestinian terrorists convening a news conference to spout some marxist bullshit.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on August 03, 2019, 05:19:22 PM
A terrorist attack at a Walmart in El Paso.

Quote
Texas Walmart shooting: 'At least 19' killed in gun attack

3 August 2019 

At least 19 people have been killed in the latest mass shooting in the United States, the BBC's partner network CBS News says.

The shooting happened at a Walmart store near the Cielo Vista Mall in El Paso, Texas, a few miles from the US-Mexico border.

At least 22 people, including young children, are being treated at local hospitals following the attack.

A white man in his 20s is in custody and is believed to be the sole shooter.

The first reports of a shooting emerged at about 11:00 local time (18:00 GMT)
....
More detail here:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49221936 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49221936)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 03, 2019, 05:37:13 PM
Amazing how white guys are often taken alive after killing a bunch of people, compared to how other people the police interact with are treated.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 03, 2019, 08:50:29 PM
Do you have any statistics on that, or are you just going by your gut?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Zoupa on August 03, 2019, 09:05:21 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 03, 2019, 08:50:29 PM
Do you have any statistics on that, or are you just going by your gut?

Good luck finding statistics on that. The statistics on unarmed shootings though are readily available. African americans are 3.49 times more likely to be shot than caucasians.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on August 03, 2019, 10:55:38 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on August 03, 2019, 09:05:21 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 03, 2019, 08:50:29 PM
Do you have any statistics on that, or are you just going by your gut?

Good luck finding statistics on that. The statistics on unarmed shootings though are readily available. African americans are 3.49 times more likely to be shot than caucasians.

And the amount of time "caucasians" are shot is still very high. Maybe not high enough for Tim.

I would also like to see proof of his premise: as far as I know most of the time the shooters are killed.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: FunkMonk on August 04, 2019, 07:53:43 AM
Quote from: mongers on August 03, 2019, 05:19:22 PM
A terrorist attack at a Walmart in El Paso.

Quote
Texas Walmart shooting: 'At least 19' killed in gun attack

3 August 2019 

At least 19 people have been killed in the latest mass shooting in the United States, the BBC's partner network CBS News says.

The shooting happened at a Walmart store near the Cielo Vista Mall in El Paso, Texas, a few miles from the US-Mexico border.

At least 22 people, including young children, are being treated at local hospitals following the attack.

A white man in his 20s is in custody and is believed to be the sole shooter.

The first reports of a shooting emerged at about 11:00 local time (18:00 GMT)
....
More detail here:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49221936 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49221936)

This dude's alleged manifesto said his attack was in response to the "Hispanic invasion of Texas." Wtf

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on August 04, 2019, 07:56:27 AM
Hispanic, from Spain...?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 04, 2019, 08:43:39 AM
It was over 300 years ago, let it go.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: FunkMonk on August 04, 2019, 09:35:59 AM
I remember back at the height of the War on Terror when everyone was freaking out about Al Qaida sending terrorists to attack American shopping malls and other soft targets.

:hmm:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: merithyn on August 04, 2019, 09:37:50 AM
Now white men are doing so en masse. Go figure.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on August 04, 2019, 10:38:23 AM
As someone said (maybe here), everyone in the country has to take their shoes off before boarding an airplane because some Islamic British dude unsuccessfully tried to burn his shoes on a plane 18 years ago, and yet every wacko non-Islamic dude can buy weapons for mass murder today, despite there having been a massacre by one of those dudes yesterday.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 04, 2019, 06:43:23 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 04, 2019, 07:56:27 AM
Hispanic, from Spain...?
Valmy said it can apply to Portugal too. :hmm: Chateaubriand would agree.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 12:17:48 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 04, 2019, 08:43:39 AM
It was over 300 years ago, let it go.  :rolleyes:

I know. That ship kind of sailed dude.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 12:29:08 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 04, 2019, 09:37:50 AM
Now white men are doing so en masse. Go figure.

En masse? Do you know what that term means?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on August 05, 2019, 01:05:07 AM
My sister didn't comment on the El Paso shooter but linked this story with a :ultra: smiley (well, the FB equivalent):

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/aug/4/connor-betts-ohio-gunman-was-elizabeth-warren-supp/?fbclid=IwAR2-EX9pGXYwKwEdAzJSbRurH5Q0FX-pN6A8j13Uksos7yVPY91hz2eJfEg

QuoteOhio gunman described himself as pro-Satan 'leftist' who supported Elizabeth Warren

"I want socialism, and i'll not wait for the idiots to finally come round to understanding," he wrote in one tweet, according to Heavy.com.

The breaking-news outlet said it had found Betts' Twitter page (handle @iamthespookster) and verified that the account belonged to the gunman "through multiple verification factors, including a matching tattoo on both a page selfie and prominent news outlets' pictures of Connor Betts; several family linkages to the page; similar photos, including of him and the family dog, on the page and family members' verified accounts; and references to college and growing up in Ohio and Dayton."

The Twitter account painted a picture of a left-wing anarchist and discontent, very far from the anti-immigration manifesto posted by Saturday's El Paso gunman.

"Vote blue for gods sake," he wrote last Nov. 2. On the day of the senator's death, Betts wrote "F—k John McCain."

Though he had a fascination for guns, Betts also was a fan of gun control and blamed Republicans for school shootings.

"This is America: Guns on every corner, guns in every house, no freedom but that to kill," he wrote in December, and on the day of the Parkland, Florida, school shooting, he tweeted at Sen. Rob Portman: "hey rob. How much did they pay you to look the other way? 17 kids are dead. If not now, when?"

In reference to the 2017 Las Vegas shooting, he wrote "you can't kill 50+ people and injure 600(!) In 10 minutes with cigarettes my dude."

Politically, Betts was on the far left. His pinned Top Tweet was a retweet of someone else's claim that "Millennials have a message for the Joe Biden generation: hurry up and die."

When another Twitter user posted a picture of Ms. Warren and 2020 Democratic presidential rival Kamala Harris and asked "co-Presidents?" Betts poured scorn.

"Nahh, but only cuz Harris is a cop - Warren I'd happily vote for," he replied.

When noting that alt-right demonstrators were marching in Charlottesville, a rally that later ended in the death of Heather Heyer, he exhorted his followers: "Kill every fascist."

According to Heavy, Betts also shared posts about "concentration camps" at the border and wrote, "Cut the fences down. Slice ICE tires. Throw bolt cutters over the fences."

His profile specified his preferred pronouns as "he/him."

As of Sunday, Dayton police said they had no proof of Betts' motive.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Liep on August 05, 2019, 04:15:46 AM
Can't we all just come together and be mad at Neil deGrasse Tyson?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on August 05, 2019, 04:56:04 AM
8chan was taken down

Quote8chan is among the more than 19 million Internet properties that use Cloudflare's service. We just sent notice that we are terminating 8chan as a customer effective at midnight tonight Pacific Time. The rationale is simple: they have proven themselves to be lawless and that lawlessness has caused multiple tragic deaths. Even if 8chan may not have violated the letter of the law in refusing to moderate their hate-filled community, they have created an environment that revels in violating its spirit.

edit: the whole satement, plus the predictable comments: https://blog.cloudflare.com/terminating-service-for-8chan/
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on August 05, 2019, 08:08:08 AM
https://www.the-postillon.com/2017/10/nra-sends-gift-baskets.html

QuoteNRA sends gift basket with "consolation weapons" to relatives of El Paso and Dayton shootings

(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GDw0_tw135Y/Vg5fk0UyOSI/AAAAAAAAgQg/_S_DVfvU-Vs/s1600/giftbasket.jpg)

El Paso / Dayton (dpo) - A truly noble gesture in difficult times: just one day after the terrible weekend in which two mass shootings left 29 people dead, the National Rifle Association (NRA) have presented the relatives of the casualties with a small gift. As a consolation for their loss, the families of each victim received a gift basket with a varied mixture of local weapon specialities.

The consolation weapons are pleasantly arranged; the bottom space of the basket is filled with ammunition. There is a card attached saying "this basket intends to be a little help for the relatives of the tragedy in El Paso and Dayton to which neither the lax national weapons legislation nor the NRA have contributed at all. Heartfelt condolences."

According to a spokesperson of the gun lobby, the NRA gift baskets are very popular. Just this year, almost 17,500 baskets have been sent to relatives of firearm victims.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 10:04:20 AM
Quote from: Liep on August 05, 2019, 04:15:46 AM
Can't we all just come together and be mad at Neil deGrasse Tyson?

What is wrong with Neil deGrasse Tyson?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tonitrus on August 05, 2019, 11:01:58 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 10:04:20 AM
Quote from: Liep on August 05, 2019, 04:15:46 AM
Can't we all just come together and be mad at Neil deGrasse Tyson?

What is wrong with Neil deGrasse Tyson?

He put out a tweet to the effect of "the death toll in these shootings is small compared to medical errors, traffic accidents, etc, that happen every day, but shootings get all the news coverage".  Factual, but not the kind of thing a sensible person goes around pointing out after such an event.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on August 05, 2019, 11:12:04 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 05, 2019, 11:01:58 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 10:04:20 AM
Quote from: Liep on August 05, 2019, 04:15:46 AM
Can't we all just come together and be mad at Neil deGrasse Tyson?

What is wrong with Neil deGrasse Tyson?

He put out a tweet to the effect of "the death toll in these shootings is small compared to medical errors, traffic accidents, etc, that happen every day, but shootings get all the news coverage".  Factual, but not the kind of thing a sensible person goes around pointing out after such an event.

The best response was someone posting this image from Watchmen:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EBNP-fNVUAAvinw?format=png&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 12:17:58 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 05, 2019, 11:01:58 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 05, 2019, 10:04:20 AM
Quote from: Liep on August 05, 2019, 04:15:46 AM
Can't we all just come together and be mad at Neil deGrasse Tyson?

What is wrong with Neil deGrasse Tyson?

He put out a tweet to the effect of "the death toll in these shootings is small compared to medical errors, traffic accidents, etc, that happen every day, but shootings get all the news coverage".  Factual, but not the kind of thing a sensible person goes around pointing out after such an event.

See even a genius is not smart enough to use Twitter.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on August 05, 2019, 08:30:53 PM
I admire his courage.  It's a lot easier to use Twitter to join the mob to lynch critical thinking, rather than to invite their wrath by making reasoned arguments.  Pointing this out now and not later is appropriate for the same reason that talking about gun control is appropriate now and not later.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 05, 2019, 10:30:25 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 05, 2019, 08:30:53 PM
I admire his courage.  It's a lot easier to use Twitter to join the mob to lynch critical thinking, rather than to invite their wrath by making reasoned arguments.  Pointing this out now and not later is appropriate for the same reason that talking about gun control is appropriate now and not later.

Except the other things are accidents.  It is not a very good comparison and especially not now. 
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Berkut on August 05, 2019, 11:37:52 PM
Yeah, I freaking love him, but that is rather lazy thinking. Unless you think that we can only consider one thing at a time, and that there is a lack of attention or resources given to those other items, I don't understand what point he is trying to make.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on August 05, 2019, 11:54:01 PM
Yeah, pretty weird thing to say.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on August 06, 2019, 03:56:31 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 05, 2019, 11:37:52 PM
Yeah, I freaking love him, but that is rather lazy thinking. Unless you think that we can only consider one thing at a time, and that there is a lack of attention or resources given to those other items, I don't understand what point he is trying to make.
The media can indeed talk about a few things at a time at most, and when they do, they often instill a great deal of anxiety in public (because stuff that sells is also stuff that causes anxiety).  If you're going to instill anxiety, you may as well do it about things that are actually relatively statistically likely to hurt you, so that some good may come out of it.  Humans can also only be truly motivated to change a few things at a time, so it is indeed a zero sum game to get useful attention out of the public to apply political pressure to change things.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on August 06, 2019, 04:15:24 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 05, 2019, 10:30:25 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 05, 2019, 08:30:53 PM
I admire his courage.  It's a lot easier to use Twitter to join the mob to lynch critical thinking, rather than to invite their wrath by making reasoned arguments.  Pointing this out now and not later is appropriate for the same reason that talking about gun control is appropriate now and not later.

Except the other things are accidents.  It is not a very good comparison and especially not now.
All of these things are negligence combined with bad luck.  Medical accidents are often doctor carelessness that due to other factors sometimes turns fatal, traffic accidents are driver or engineering negligence that combined with bad luck turn fatal.  Mass shootings are gun policy negligence that combined with bad luck (individual insanity) turn fatal.

In all of these cases, you have failures of policy that increase your exposure to things that happen just due to human nature.  However, as frustrating as total retardation on the right regarding guns is, that negligence is far less likely to make you lose a family member to a mass shooting than to a medical error. 

Even when it comes to guns, the true negligence with American gun policy is to make mental illnesses more fatal, as gun suicides are far more effective than other popular means.  The extra avoidable suicides probably take as many lives as traffic accidents (and no, suicides are not a choice most of the time, they're a fatal complication of an illness).
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 08, 2019, 11:36:48 AM
Quote from: DGuller on August 06, 2019, 04:15:24 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 05, 2019, 10:30:25 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 05, 2019, 08:30:53 PM
I admire his courage.  It's a lot easier to use Twitter to join the mob to lynch critical thinking, rather than to invite their wrath by making reasoned arguments.  Pointing this out now and not later is appropriate for the same reason that talking about gun control is appropriate now and not later.

Except the other things are accidents.  It is not a very good comparison and especially not now.
All of these things are negligence combined with bad luck.  Medical accidents are often doctor carelessness that due to other factors sometimes turns fatal, traffic accidents are driver or engineering negligence that combined with bad luck turn fatal.  Mass shootings are gun policy negligence that combined with bad luck (individual insanity) turn fatal.

In all of these cases, you have failures of policy that increase your exposure to things that happen just due to human nature.  However, as frustrating as total retardation on the right regarding guns is, that negligence is far less likely to make you lose a family member to a mass shooting than to a medical error. 

Even when it comes to guns, the true negligence with American gun policy is to make mental illnesses more fatal, as gun suicides are far more effective than other popular means.  The extra avoidable suicides probably take as many lives as traffic accidents (and no, suicides are not a choice most of the time, they're a fatal complication of an illness).

You are using the words negligence and accidents improperly.  Those denote unintended results.  Mass shooters intend the results of their actions.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 08, 2019, 02:10:06 PM
He's talking about the system, not individuals.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on August 08, 2019, 03:19:52 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 08, 2019, 02:10:06 PM
He's talking about the system, not individuals.
Exactly.  Out of many millions of people, there would always be some who through combination of nature and nurture will be dangerous.  The actions of someone with wires crossed are not an accident, but the crossing of wires itself is.  One of the purposes of society is to prevent or mitigate the damage from errors and accidents that happen.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on August 08, 2019, 04:14:09 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 08, 2019, 03:19:52 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on August 08, 2019, 02:10:06 PM
He's talking about the system, not individuals.
Exactly.  Out of many millions of people, there would always be some who through combination of nature and nurture will be dangerous.  The actions of someone with wires crossed are not an accident, but the crossing of wires itself is.  One of the purposes of society is to prevent or mitigate the damage from errors and accidents that happen.

There is no way to equate the intent of a gunman firing into a crowd with a surgical error.  Surgical errors are actual accidents.  Shooting into a crowd is an intentional act.  At some level of abstraction you can probably create some kind of statistical model that shows the risks are greater if one goes in for surgery.  But that fundamental difference is that when a surgeon cuts into you with a scalpel he is not trying to kill you.  When shooter aims at you, he is.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on August 08, 2019, 04:17:38 PM
You tried, DG.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on August 08, 2019, 04:41:29 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 08, 2019, 04:17:38 PM
You tried, DG.

And failed.  I'd say that it was a valiant try, except for the fact that it wasn't.

The reason that shootings get more press coverage than surgical errors isn't because the press is stupid.  It is because people can more easily see themselves the unexpected victims of a mass shooting than an unexpected botched surgery.  If the old Monte Python skit where the surgeon shows up at the homes of unsuspecting organ donors and rips out their kidneys came to pass, it would be covered intensely by the press.  This isn't remotely difficult to understand, even by geniuses.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 08, 2019, 07:23:10 PM
Send Neil deGrasse Tyson a gift basket full of radar detectors, bourbon, and cell phones.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 08, 2019, 07:25:58 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 08, 2019, 07:23:10 PM
Send Neil deGrasse Tyson a gift basket full of radar detectors, bourbon, and cell phones.

:unsure:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on August 08, 2019, 07:55:48 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 08, 2019, 04:17:38 PM
You tried, DG.
:( Does it ever get easier?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on August 09, 2019, 01:11:09 AM
Quote from: DGuller on August 08, 2019, 07:55:48 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 08, 2019, 04:17:38 PM
You tried, DG.
:( Does it ever get easier?

No, but I do. :)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 09, 2019, 11:23:19 AM
I don't get Minskys comment either.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on August 09, 2019, 11:44:22 AM
It was referencing baskets with assault rifles that NRA members were thoughtful enough to send.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Liep on August 09, 2019, 02:47:23 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 09, 2019, 11:44:22 AM
It was referencing baskets with assault rifles that NRA members were thoughtful enough to send.

Wasn't that from a The Onion article?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on August 10, 2019, 07:03:37 AM
Quote from: Liep on August 09, 2019, 02:47:23 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 09, 2019, 11:44:22 AM
It was referencing baskets with assault rifles that NRA members were thoughtful enough to send.

Wasn't that from a The Onion article?

A German sort-of-equivalent, Der Postillon
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Solmyr on August 10, 2019, 01:15:21 PM
Mosque shooting in Norway (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49308016)

QuoteA man has been arrested in Norway after a shooting inside a mosque left one person injured.

Police say a gunman opened fire on the Al-Noor Islamic Centre, near the capital Oslo, on Saturday.

The suspect has not been named, but police have described him as a "young white man".

The mosque's director told local media that the victim was a 75-year-old member of the congregation.

"One of our members has been shot by a white man with a helmet and uniform," Irfan Mushtaq told local newspaper Budstikka.

He later told local channel TV2 that the attacker had "carried two shotgun-like weapons and a pistol. He broke through a glass door and fired shots."

The gunman, who wore body armour, was overpowered by people at the mosque before police arrived at the scene, Mr Mushtaq added.

Oslo Police confirmed the attack on Twitter, saying: "One person is shot. The severity of that person's injuries is unknown. One suspect is arrested".

They said the suspect appears to have acted alone.

Police sources told public broadcaster NRK that several weapons were found inside the mosque, located in the town of Baerum, following the shooting.

The mosque had previously implemented extra security measures after a gunman killed 51 people at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand, earlier this year, according to Reuters news agency.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on August 10, 2019, 01:17:36 PM
Go tacklers! :)

Hope the victim isn't hurt too bad. :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on August 10, 2019, 01:27:56 PM
Way to go Mosque tacklers! Let us hope the victim has a speedy and full recovery.

I am so ashamed to see my country inspiring these sorts of copycats.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on August 10, 2019, 04:30:10 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 10, 2019, 01:27:56 PM
Way to go Mosque tacklers! Let us hope the victim has a speedy and full recovery.

I am so ashamed to see my country inspiring these sorts of copycats.

:(

I know it's probably not the thing to say, but I wouldn't be too upset if they'd beaten the guy to a pulp, but civilized people abide by the rule of law and wait for the police.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 10, 2019, 08:50:29 PM
It's the thing to say on Languish.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on August 10, 2019, 08:54:47 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on August 10, 2019, 01:15:21 PM
Mosque shooting in Norway (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49308016)

QuoteA man has been arrested in Norway after a shooting inside a mosque left one person injured.

Police say a gunman opened fire on the Al-Noor Islamic Centre, near the capital Oslo, on Saturday.

The suspect has not been named, but police have described him as a "young white man".

The mosque's director told local media that the victim was a 75-year-old member of the congregation.

"One of our members has been shot by a white man with a helmet and uniform," Irfan Mushtaq told local newspaper Budstikka.

He later told local channel TV2 that the attacker had "carried two shotgun-like weapons and a pistol. He broke through a glass door and fired shots."

The gunman, who wore body armour, was overpowered by people at the mosque before police arrived at the scene, Mr Mushtaq added.

Oslo Police confirmed the attack on Twitter, saying: "One person is shot. The severity of that person's injuries is unknown. One suspect is arrested".

They said the suspect appears to have acted alone.

Police sources told public broadcaster NRK that several weapons were found inside the mosque, located in the town of Baerum, following the shooting.

The mosque had previously implemented extra security measures after a gunman killed 51 people at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand, earlier this year, according to Reuters news agency.

Man, Legbiter sucks at this.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 10, 2019, 10:59:40 PM
Smooth raz.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on August 11, 2019, 01:05:26 AM
Usually I'm all for not promoting the names of terrorists.
But we should make an exception in cases like this.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 11, 2019, 01:11:12 AM
Umm k.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Solmyr on August 11, 2019, 02:01:37 AM
Apparently the police found a murdered female relative at the guy's home.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on August 11, 2019, 02:03:59 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 11, 2019, 01:05:26 AM
Usually I'm all for not promoting the names of terrorists.
But we should make an exception in cases like this.

It's not actually Legbiter.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Solmyr on August 11, 2019, 04:19:12 PM
The guy who tacked the shooter (and got injured a bit in the process) is a 65 years old retired Pakistani air force officer. :D
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on August 11, 2019, 08:07:12 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on August 11, 2019, 04:19:12 PM
The guy who tacked the shooter (and got injured a bit in the process) is a 65 years old retired Pakistani air force officer. :D

I'll bet he's not even gay, the poser.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HVC on August 14, 2019, 06:29:54 PM
Another mass shooting. This time in Philadelphia. Six cops shot.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on August 14, 2019, 07:20:22 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 14, 2019, 06:29:54 PM
Another mass shooting. This time in Philadelphia. Six cops shot.

And some folks wonder why the cops are so heavily armed.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Zoupa on August 14, 2019, 07:48:25 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 14, 2019, 07:20:22 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 14, 2019, 06:29:54 PM
Another mass shooting. This time in Philadelphia. Six cops shot.

And some folks wonder why the cops are so heavily armed.

If the cops had a bigger gun that the shooter, would it have mattered?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on August 14, 2019, 11:08:48 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 14, 2019, 06:29:54 PM
Another mass shooting. This time in Philadelphia. Six cops shot.

Sounds like it is some sort of standoff and still ongoing.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 14, 2019, 11:20:44 PM
Quote from: Zoupa on August 14, 2019, 07:48:25 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on August 14, 2019, 07:20:22 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 14, 2019, 06:29:54 PM
Another mass shooting. This time in Philadelphia. Six cops shot.

And some folks wonder why the cops are so heavily armed.

If the cops had a bigger gun that the shooter, would it have mattered?

Maybe he meant to say armored.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on August 15, 2019, 07:41:24 AM
It's over:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49353728 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49353728)

Seems to have been a drugs raid that went wrong rather than terrorism.

Perhaps 100 rounds fired, but luckily no one seriously hurt.

No one left in hospital, other than a cop injured in a car crash on the way to the emergency.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on August 15, 2019, 09:19:35 AM
Quote from: mongers on August 15, 2019, 07:41:24 AM
It's over:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49353728 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49353728)

Seems to have been a drugs raid that went wrong rather than terrorism.

Perhaps 100 rounds fired, but luckily no one seriously hurt.

No one left in hospital, other than a cop injured in a car crash on the way to the emergency.

Yeah I suspected it was probably a crime/bust gone wrong than a mass shooting. The guy had a big list of previous convictions, so a career criminal. Awesome news that everybody is ok.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on August 15, 2019, 09:59:09 AM
Quote from: mongers on August 15, 2019, 07:41:24 AM
It's over:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49353728 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49353728)

Seems to have been a drugs raid that went wrong rather than terrorism.

Perhaps 100 rounds fired, but luckily no one seriously hurt.

No one left in hospital, other than a cop injured in a car crash on the way to the emergency.

Drug dealer going on a rampage? If only drug users would be armed, this sort of thing could be avoided. :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Solmyr on August 16, 2019, 01:34:53 AM
So you've got actual public officials committing acts of terrorism now. :huh:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/08/15/video-ice-protesters-hit-truck-guard-rhode-island-wyatt/

QuoteThe protesters were sitting on the pavement to block staff from parking at a Rhode Island prison that works with Immigration and Customs Enforcement when a black pickup truck swerved toward them. The protesters shouted as the driver laid on the horn, and the truck briefly stopped.

And then, the driver hit the gas.

In a viral video captured by bystanders, the protesters screamed and jumped out of the way. Several were struck, according to organizers of the Wednesday night demonstration at the Wyatt Detention Facility in Central Falls, R.I. Some were treated at a hospital, though none were severely injured.

"It was terrifying because we didn't know what exactly his intention was," Amy Anthony, a spokesperson for Never Again Action, a Jewish activist group that planned the protest, told The Washington Post. "It certainly appeared he was trying to hit us."

The driver was Captain Thomas Woodworth, a correctional officer employed by the privately run facility, the Wyatt Detention Facity confirmed on Friday. Central Falls police working at the protest did not intervene, Anthony said, and the driver eventually walked into the prison after other guards pepper-sprayed the protesters.

"It's obvious that there was an assault that took place," Anthony said. "We're not sure what we can do now."

The Rhode Island attorney general's office and the Rhode Island State Police are investigating the incident, the attorney general's office said in a statement. Maj. Craig Horton of the Central Falls Police Department told The Post his agency was assisting.

"Once we have a full understanding of the relevant facts, we will determine how to proceed," the attorney general's office said in the statement. "Peaceful protest is a fundamental right of all Americans; it is unfortunate last night's situation unfolded as it did. We urge all to exercise restraint as our investigation proceeds."

Woodworth has been placed on administrative leave during the investigation, said Chris Hunter, a spokesman for the prison, in a statement. The detention facility is also conducting an internal review, he said.

The confrontation took place during a wave of protests around the country by Jewish groups against ICE, including a demonstration that shut down part of Manhattan's West Side Highway on Saturday, leading police to arrest nearly 100 protesters.

Anthony's group, which ties its activism to preventing future atrocities like the Holocaust, arrived at the prison around 7 p.m. on Wednesday. The Wyatt Detention Facility, which describes itself as a "quasi-public corporation," the Providence Journal reported, has contracts with ICE to house immigration detainees. The facility is operated by the Central Falls Detention Facility Corp. and is overseen by a board appointed by the mayor of Central Falls, located about seven miles north of Providence.

About 30 protesters first shut down the main entrance to the prison by linking arms and sitting on the ground, Anthony said. Around 9 p.m., they moved to block the driveways into the staff parking lot. About 45 minutes later, the black pickup showed up.

"The truck kind of swerved to sort of pick up speed," Anthony said. "It felt unreal to see this happening and to see that someone was actively driving into a group of people who, as I say, were peacefully sitting."

The group included children and one protester in a wheelchair, Anthony said.

Before the truck could get through to the parking lot, though, protesters gathered on the other side of the gate, shouting "Shame!" Moments later, other guards from the prison rushed across the street to surround the protesters and then fired pepper spray.

After the demonstrators fled the pepper spray, the driver parked in the lot and then walked into the prison, Anthony said.

Although Central Falls police were on the scene, they did not get involved, Anthony said, and officers later refused to take statements from protesters. Organizers are discussing what legal recourse they might have now.

Anthony said the incident hardened her group's resolve to continue protesting ICE and prisons that work with the federal agency.

"If this is the way this correctional officer is behaving in public when people are recording, it's not hard to imagine the behavior is much worse behind the walls in the facility where no one can see what is happening," she said.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tonitrus on August 17, 2019, 05:38:36 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on August 16, 2019, 01:34:53 AM
The driver was Captain Thomas Woodworth, a correctional officer employed by the privately run facility, the Wyatt Detention Facity confirmed on Friday. Central Falls police working at the protest did not intervene, Anthony said, and the driver eventually walked into the prison after other guards pepper-sprayed the protesters.

Not a public official...but then that is a whole problem in itself.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: jimmy olsen on August 17, 2019, 06:52:30 AM
Not sure where to post this, but I found this very touching.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/thousands-expected-attend-funeral-el-paso-shooting-victim/story%3fid=65014173
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on August 17, 2019, 10:22:24 AM
A suspicious backpack was just discovered outside of the hotel I'm staying at.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on August 17, 2019, 10:33:28 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 17, 2019, 10:22:24 AM
A suspicious backpack was just discovered outside of the hotel I'm staying at.

Never "your" dildo.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on August 17, 2019, 11:43:50 AM
:lol:

Appears they've since cleared all the cordoning.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 31, 2019, 01:35:54 PM
https://www.france24.com/en/20190831-one-dead-several-wounded-knife-attack-near-lyon (https://www.france24.com/en/20190831-one-dead-several-wounded-knife-attack-near-lyon)

QuoteA 19-year-old man was killed and another nine wounded, three seriously, on Saturday in a knife attack near the French city of Lyon, a regional official and emergency services said.

Two men, one armed with a knife and the other with a skewer, carried out the attack in Villeurbanne, a Lyon suburb, in southeastern France, the official said, without giving further details on the motive for the stabbing.

One of the men had been arrested by police but the second was on the run. The attack took place close to a metro station.

An AFP journalist at the scene witnessed a body being taken away in an ambulance and traces of blood on the ground.

The national anti-terrorism prosecutor's office had been informed but had not taken charge of the case at this stage.


A local report indicates only one assaillant. One witness said religion was involved and heard the perpetrator talking,, guess which? "They do not read al-Quran".

https://www.leprogres.fr/rhone-69-edition-villeurbanne-et-caluire/2019/08/31/villeurbanne-six-blesses-lors-d-une-agression-au-couteau-a-la-station-laurent-bonnevay (https://www.leprogres.fr/rhone-69-edition-villeurbanne-et-caluire/2019/08/31/villeurbanne-six-blesses-lors-d-une-agression-au-couteau-a-la-station-laurent-bonnevay)

Quote« ILS NE LISENT PAS LE CORAN »

Selon un témoin direct de l'agression entendu par Le Progrès, le suspect aurait fait part d'une allusion religieuse au moment des faits : « Ils ne lisent pas le Coran ».
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 23, 2019, 06:56:26 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_dfBAGiZS8

US soldier arrested in Kansas for disseminating bomb making information and discussing targeting "a major news network" and Beto O'Rourke on the interwebs.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on September 24, 2019, 12:18:03 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on August 31, 2019, 01:35:54 PM
https://www.france24.com/en/20190831-one-dead-several-wounded-knife-attack-near-lyon (https://www.france24.com/en/20190831-one-dead-several-wounded-knife-attack-near-lyon)

QuoteA 19-year-old man was killed and another nine wounded, three seriously, on Saturday in a knife attack near the French city of Lyon, a regional official and emergency services said.

Two men, one armed with a knife and the other with a skewer, carried out the attack in Villeurbanne, a Lyon suburb, in southeastern France, the official said, without giving further details on the motive for the stabbing.

One of the men had been arrested by police but the second was on the run. The attack took place close to a metro station.

An AFP journalist at the scene witnessed a body being taken away in an ambulance and traces of blood on the ground.

The national anti-terrorism prosecutor's office had been informed but had not taken charge of the case at this stage.


A local report indicates only one assaillant. One witness said religion was involved and heard the perpetrator talking,, guess which? "They do not read al-Quran".

https://www.leprogres.fr/rhone-69-edition-villeurbanne-et-caluire/2019/08/31/villeurbanne-six-blesses-lors-d-une-agression-au-couteau-a-la-station-laurent-bonnevay (https://www.leprogres.fr/rhone-69-edition-villeurbanne-et-caluire/2019/08/31/villeurbanne-six-blesses-lors-d-une-agression-au-couteau-a-la-station-laurent-bonnevay)

Quote« ILS NE LISENT PAS LE CORAN »

Selon un témoin direct de l'agression entendu par Le Progrès, le suspect aurait fait part d'une allusion religieuse au moment des faits : « Ils ne lisent pas le Coran ».
what about the failed mosque attack, what did the perp say? ;)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 26, 2019, 07:11:10 AM
Quote from: viper37 on September 24, 2019, 12:18:03 AM

what about the failed mosque attack, what did the perp say? ;)

The perp is a muslim of North African origin, so I am afraid most media deemed the story not so interesting.  :P
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on September 26, 2019, 10:51:42 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on September 26, 2019, 07:11:10 AM
Quote from: viper37 on September 24, 2019, 12:18:03 AM

what about the failed mosque attack, what did the perp say? ;)

The perp is a muslim of North African origin, so I am afraid most media deemed the story not so interesting.  :P
More likely, it's a failed attack, and it does not attract a lot of viewers ;)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on October 03, 2019, 08:57:13 AM
Knife attack at Paris police headquarters leaving 4 dead. :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 03, 2019, 12:38:19 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 03, 2019, 08:57:13 AM
Knife attack at Paris police headquarters leaving 4 dead. :(

Perpetrator converted to Islam, according to police sources quoted by le Figaro.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on October 09, 2019, 10:31:50 AM
Yom Kippur attack in Germany:

https://www.ibtimes.com/two-dead-german-synagogue-attack-yom-kippur-2842462

Apparently, one suspect in custody, two are dead.

According to reports, the attacker or attackers tried to break into a synagogue full of people (it's Yom Kippur), failed to get inside, and then shot someone in the street and another person in a kebab restaurant.

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Zanza on October 09, 2019, 08:19:36 PM
Terrible that this happens in my country again.  :(
The perpetrator is a German neonazi. He filmed the whole time and wrote a manifesto online, so there is ample evidence. Looks similar to the Christchurch attack in style.

https://m.dw.com/en/police-investigate-anti-semitism-links-in-halle-shootings/a-50764327
QuoteTwo people have been killed and two injured after an attack on a synagogue in the eastern city of Halle. Authorities believe the attack was motivated by anti-Semitism.

An attack on a synagogue in the eastern German city of Halle in the state of Saxony-Anhalt sent shockwaves across country on Wednesday. Authorities have arrested a 27-year-old German, Stephan B. and have indicated that they believe he acted alone.

Police say the man had no previous arrests, but his targets suggest that he had anti-Semitic and xenophobic beliefs. German Interior Minister Horst Seehofer said that anti-Semitism was certainly one of the shooter's motives.

Shooting began at synagogue and ended at kebab shop

The shooting occurred shortly after 11 a.m., when the perpetrator attempted to enter the synagogue but was unable to gain entrance. He then shot and killed a woman near the entrance to the adjacent Jewish cemetery.

The assailant then got back into his car and drove to a nearby kebab shop where he killed another victim. Police later said that they had found an improvised explosive device near the synagogue.

Two further people were injured during the rampage in Halle. Local authorities say that the two, a man and a woman, were treated for gunshot wounds. They are no longer at risk of death according to hospital officials.

Dressed in combat gear, the attacker was also wearing a helmet with a camera, which he used to livestream the attack on Amazon's streaming platform Twitch. During the video, which was quickly removed, the assailant ranted that the Holocaust had never happened as well as shouting xenophobic and misogynistic statements.

The suspect was apprehended by city police after he crashed his car.

Technical failures saved lives
The shooter used multiple weapons, including homemade bombs and what appears to be a homemade rifle. He experienced repeated technical failures during the attack, which ultimately saved lives.

A man who stopped his vehicle to check on the woman shot outside the synagogue was able to get away unharmed when the shooter's weapon failed to fire.

It jammed again after he began firing at the kebap shop. Several people were able to flee.

The shooter was unable to break through the secured door of the synagogue using fire power and witnesses report that one homemade bomb also failed to explode.

In the livestream of the attack, the assailant apologizes to the viewers repeatedly for his failure to kill.

Expressions of shock and solidarity
Politicians and religious leaders condemned the attack, which occurred on the Jewish holy day of Yom Kippur, and expressed their solidarity with Germany's Jewish community.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who attended a vigil Wednesday evening at a synagogue in the capital Berlin, conveyed her "deepest condolences." Steffen Seibert, Merkel's spokesman, wrote on Twitter: "Our solidarity is with Germany's Jews on this Yom Kippur. Our thanks go out to security forces still deployed."

Foreign Minister Heiko Maas also addressed the attack on Twitter, writing: "That on Yom Kippur a synagogue was shot at touches all our hearts. We must all act against anti-Semitism in our country."

Religious leaders react
Josef Schuster, president of the Central Council of Jews in Germany said, "The brutality of the attack surpasses everything we have seen in recent years, and is deeply shocking to all Jews in Germany."

Schuster was also critical of police, however, saying, "It is scandalous that police were not protecting the synagogue in Halle on a holiday like Yom Kippur." Synagogues in many German cities receive special police protection, and Yom Kippur, the feast of atonement, is the highest holy day in the Jewish calendar.

Leaders of Germany's Catholic and Protestant churches also expressed condolences for "our Jewish brothers and sisters," calling on people of faith to stand up against the scourge of anti-Semitism.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 10, 2019, 05:34:29 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 03, 2019, 12:38:19 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 03, 2019, 08:57:13 AM
Knife attack at Paris police headquarters leaving 4 dead. :(

Perpetrator converted to Islam, according to police sources quoted by le Figaro.

More details. The conversion to islam and subsequent islamist radicalisation is actually older, more like 10 years or so. The perpetrator was known to refuse to greet women based on his sex-segregating islamist creed.

https://www.france24.com/en/20191007-france-paris-knife-attacker-harpon-police-prefecture-report-signs-radicalisation-2015 (https://www.france24.com/en/20191007-france-paris-knife-attacker-harpon-police-prefecture-report-signs-radicalisation-2015)

QuoteThe remarks, as well as changes colleagues observed in Harpon's behaviour towards women, were the subject of an informal discussion in July 2015 between two police officer colleagues and a police major charged with fielding reports on radicalisation. The major was told about the fact that Harpon had married a Muslim woman, had converted to Islam, and had stopped shaking hands with or embracing women. But the officers declined to file a formal report.
Despite being deaf he still managed to get a pretty good clerical position in IT at the Police Headquarters. Either some really baffling Code of Silence among clerk "cops" since early signs were ignored or the information failed to be transmitted to avoid causing trouble.  :hmm:

Interior minister was ridiculous again by claiming early on there was no islamist motive but it is not the first time and will likely happen again.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on November 07, 2019, 02:21:50 PM
Police arrested the author of a terror attack (stabbing) in Jerash earlier this week:
Link (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-07/jordanian-palestinian-arrested-following-jerash-stabbing/11679528)

My younger cousin just visited the site, a day earlier...  Damn, I knew I had a bad feeling about her going there.   :glare:   Should have gone with her, maybe I'd had a few less sleepless night.  Egypt and Jordan look beautiful, Petra and Jerash look astounding.  Despite the crazy maniacs.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on November 29, 2019, 09:36:54 PM
There was a terrorist knife attack in London this afternoon, on and about London bridge again, two people were killed, the police shot the perpetrator dead. 


Only just found out about this, as have been avoiding the election news.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 29, 2019, 11:22:02 PM
Yeah. He was also wearing a hoax suicide vest.

And was disarmed by a crowd of regular people before the police arrived. Including one guy who had a five foot narwhal tusk and someone who hoses him with a fire extinguisher.

Edit: Also - this is from the Mail so may not be true - but apparently this started at a Cambridge university conference on rehabilitation. The attacker was, apparently, on day release and one of the people who stopped him is a released murderer :huh:

Edit: And apparently the attacker on day release was actually convicted of terrorism :blink:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on November 30, 2019, 12:25:31 AM
Huh. I completely escaped hearing about this until now :hmm:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on November 30, 2019, 02:03:36 AM
The perpetrator was a convicted terrorist out of prison on licence. Originally he, and two others, were given indeterminate sentnces but these were reduced on appeal https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22168422 .

There will have to be some tough questions asked about this case. At first glance sending people close to the brink of becoming active terrorists to jail just for a few years seems a foolish compromise to me.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 30, 2019, 02:19:27 AM
The world's first recividist jihadist maybe.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on November 30, 2019, 09:31:30 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 30, 2019, 02:03:36 AM
The perpetrator was a convicted terrorist out of prison on licence. Originally he, and two others, were given indeterminate sentnces but these were reduced on appeal https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22168422 .

There will have to be some tough questions asked about this case. At first glance sending people close to the brink of becoming active terrorists to jail just for a few years seems a foolish compromise to me.


He was stopped by a Polish chef with a narwhal tusk, and a convicted murderer on day release with a fire extinguisher.

Which I'm sure is making the Daily Mail readers' heads explode.

What is odd about this is that the crook's name is being splashed about all over the place...In recent terrorist attacks it seemed the press had learned that this was a dumb thing to do and kept it all under wraps. Can't help but suspect they're breaking this rule to help fan the flames of xenophobia and give Johnson a hand.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Liep on November 30, 2019, 09:38:25 AM
If he was bested by a narwhal tusk why did the police shoot him?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 30, 2019, 10:36:15 AM
Quote from: Liep on November 30, 2019, 09:38:25 AM
If he was bested by a narwhal tusk why did the police shoot him?
Fake suicide vest I think.

But will be investigated anyway.

QuoteWhat is odd about this is that the crook's name is being splashed about all over the place...In recent terrorist attacks it seemed the press had learned that this was a dumb thing to do and kept it all under wraps. Can't help but suspect they're breaking this rule to help fan the flames of xenophobia and give Johnson a hand.
I think it's because he's already been convicted of terrorism and was on day release.

I don't think the press have learned (and I don't know if it has any impact on terrorism - it definitely does on mass shootings). I think that normally they have to work out who the person is and get information about them. Because this guy already has a conviction it's a bit easier.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Legbiter on November 30, 2019, 02:29:31 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 29, 2019, 11:22:02 PMIncluding one guy who had a five foot narwhal tusk...

Damn. I'll remember to bring mine with me next time I'm in London.  :hmm: :lol:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on December 06, 2019, 06:50:44 PM
So, think the shooting at Pensacola Naval Airbase was terrorism?  I somewhat doubt it, but I guess we'll find out.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on December 06, 2019, 07:38:34 PM
Too early to tell
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on December 06, 2019, 07:41:24 PM
Pearl was a bubblehead  who's cheese slipped off his cracker.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Liep on December 11, 2019, 11:33:55 AM
20 people arrested in Denmark today. They're suspected to have been planning a terror attack and have attempted to build a bomb and procure weapons.

That's a high number and it comes just days after the minister of justice made a compassionated plea for more cameras with facial recognition technology with this logic "safety = freedom, surveillance = safety therefor surveillance = freedom). Also yesterday it was revealed that China pressured the Faroe Islands to choose Huawei to deploy 5G or else China would cancel the trade deal and stop buying salmon.

But none of this is connected of course so I'm not saying that something is wrong in this place. :tinfoil:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on December 11, 2019, 11:37:57 AM
Don't worry. China will keep you safe.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on December 12, 2019, 07:55:42 AM
Islamists it seems. Huh. The smart money is usually on the fash these days.

Are cameras with facial recognition technology a thing? I thought it was just a case of having decent resolution footage and then applying unconnected facial recognition software.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 12, 2019, 08:07:25 AM
Quote from: Liep on December 11, 2019, 11:33:55 AM
But none of this is connected of course so I'm not saying that something is wrong in this place. :tinfoil:

Besides the rotten salmon?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on January 16, 2020, 01:07:35 PM
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/16/us/politics/fbi-arrest-virginia-gun-rally.html

QuoteF.B.I. Arrests Suspected Members of Neo-Nazi Group Before Virginia Gun Rally

The three men had obtained guns and discussed traveling to Virginia for protests against new gun control measures, officials said.

WASHINGTON — The F.B.I. has arrested three men suspected of being members of a neo-Nazi hate group, including a former reservist in the Canadian Army, who had weapons and discussed traveling to a pro-gun rally next week in Richmond, Va., in anticipation of a possible race war.

The men were taken into custody on Thursday morning as part of a long-running investigation into the group, known as The Base. The men were charged with various federal crimes in Maryland, according to the Justice Department. They were scheduled to appear in federal court before a judge on Thursday afternoon.

One of the men, Patrik Jordan Mathews, 27, a main recruiter for the group, entered the United States illegally from Canada :o , according to the officials. He was arrested along with Brian M. Lemley Jr., 33, and William G. Bilbrough IV, 19. Mr. Mathews was trained as a combat engineer and considered an expert in explosives. He was dismissed from the Canadian Army after his ties to white supremacists surfaced. Mr. Lemley previously served as a cavalry soldier in the United States Army.

The Base has become a growing concern for the F.B.I. as it has worked to recruit more people to its violent cause. The Base is an "accelerationist group that encourages the onset on anarchy," according to the Counter Extremism Project, a group that tracks far-right extremists. Experts following the group say its founder, an American, appears to be living in Russia.

Former law enforcement officials say The Base, along with another white supremacist group known as Atomwaffen, have become priorities for the F.B.I. Several members of the group have recently been arrested. In November, the F.B.I. arrested a young man in New Jersey, who was suspected of recruiting on behalf of The Base and of advocating violence, including the killing of black people with a machete.

On Wednesday, Gov. Ralph Northam of Virginia declared a state of emergency and announced a temporary ban on weapons on the grounds of the State Capitol ahead of the rally. Thousands of protesters are expected to converge in Richmond on Monday to protest proposed restrictions on gun purchases by the Virginia Legislature.

The governor said on Twitter that the authorities had identified credible "threats of violence," including from out-of-state militia groups and hate groups that planned disruptions. He said the authorities had also found extremist rhetoric online similar to what had been seen in 2017 before the Charlottesville rally, when white nationalists and counterprotesters clashed in a deadly fight over the removal of Confederate monuments.

Protesters were expected to descend on the State Capitol on Monday, which is a federal holiday for Martin Luther King's Birthday.

At a public event on Wednesday at George Washington University, Thomas E. Brzozowski, a top lawyer in the  counterterrorism section of the Justice Department, said he was aware of the concerns surrounding the Richmond rally. That was an indication that the highest levels of the Justice Department were taking the situation in Richmond very seriously.

Mr. Lemley and Mr. Bilbrough were charged with transporting and harboring aliens and along with conspiracy. Prosecutors also charged Mr. Lemley and Mr. Mathews with transporting a firearm and ammunition with the intent of committing a felony. The complaint also charges Mr. Mathews with being an alien in possession of a firearm and ammunition.

The case shows how difficult it is for the F.B.I. and prosecutors to charge domestic terrorism suspects because First and Second Amendment concerns have limited the scope of what law enforcement can do. The current domestic terrorism statute does not carry any criminal penalties.

Investigators said that Mr. Mathews illegally crossed into the United States from Canada near the Minnesota border on Aug. 19, 2019. The authorities said that Mr. Lemley and Mr. Bilbrough picked up Mr. Mathews in Michigan. The men returned to Maryland later that same month.

Mr. Mathews is also believed to have traveled to Georgia, where he trained with other members of The Base.

According to the authorities, Mr. Lemley and Mr. Mathews rented an apartment in Delaware, where the F.B.I. ultimately arrested them. Prosecutors said the pair made a functioning assault rifle. They also bought more than 1,500 rounds of rifle ammunition, fired the rifle at a Maryland gun range and acquired vests to hold body armor.


Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Grey Fox on January 16, 2020, 02:30:13 PM
It's not hard to enter the USA illegally from Canada, sometimes you do it by mistakes.

https://goo.gl/maps/7mUmScPYhtzD2HEg7
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on January 16, 2020, 03:16:49 PM
What's the onset on anarchy?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on January 16, 2020, 04:57:38 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 16, 2020, 03:16:49 PM
What's the onset on anarchy?
Beginning of anarchy.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Oexmelin on January 16, 2020, 07:27:30 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on January 16, 2020, 02:30:13 PM
It's not hard to enter the USA illegally from Canada, sometimes you do it by mistakes.

https://goo.gl/maps/7mUmScPYhtzD2HEg7

In this case it was deliberate. Remember, this guy fled as he was being investigated: https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/5856501/patrik-mathews-truck-racist-materials/amp/
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on January 16, 2020, 08:45:37 PM
This can't be real, there's no snarky "religion of peace" posts.  Must be a deep state thing.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on February 02, 2020, 09:07:07 PM
Someone stabbed three people on Streatham High Road, SE London, got himself shot dead by the police.

Oddly I've stayed in a flat there directly overlooking the attack scene.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 02, 2020, 10:10:43 PM
Just heard on NPR that the perp was one day out of gaol.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on February 02, 2020, 11:45:08 PM
Quote from: DGuller on January 16, 2020, 04:57:38 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 16, 2020, 03:16:49 PM
What's the onset on anarchy?
Beginning of anarchy.

Wouldn't that be the onset of anarchy?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on February 03, 2020, 01:33:31 PM
https://humanists.international/2020/01/jesuismila-how-muslim-fundamentalists-ruined-the-life-of-a-french-girl/?lang=nl

islamic terror doesn't only work with bombs to destroy our free societies.


Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 01:36:44 PM
Well cults ruin lives in my country all the time. Many flavors of Islam have that kind of thing going on.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 05, 2020, 10:53:50 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 01:36:44 PM
Well cults ruin lives in my country all the time. Many flavors of Islam have that kind of thing going on.

The owner of the Chiefs proclaimed that his team won the Superbowl because God blessed his family.  The players may also have had something to do with it but that seemed to be a secondary factor in the mind of the owner.  Really it was all about him and his family.

Not commented on was what they had done for the last 50 years to be so disfavoured by God.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Grey Fox on February 05, 2020, 11:01:28 AM
All Sports Franchises owners thinks it's because of them that their team won.

Even Lord (George) Cope thought the Raptors won because of him.

Dude!
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on February 05, 2020, 11:43:08 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 05, 2020, 10:53:50 AM
Not commented on was what they had done for the last 50 years to be so disfavoured by God.

Tried to corner the world-wide silver market.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on February 05, 2020, 12:40:11 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 05, 2020, 10:53:50 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 01:36:44 PM
Well cults ruin lives in my country all the time. Many flavors of Islam have that kind of thing going on.

The owner of the Chiefs proclaimed that his team won the Superbowl because God blessed his family.  The players may also have had something to do with it but that seemed to be a secondary factor in the mind of the owner.  Really it was all about him and his family.

Not commented on was what they had done for the last 50 years to be so disfavoured by God.

I mean...sure. Some people might think Andy Reid is some sort of God.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on February 05, 2020, 12:48:11 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on February 03, 2020, 01:33:31 PM
https://humanists.international/2020/01/jesuismila-how-muslim-fundamentalists-ruined-the-life-of-a-french-girl/?lang=nl (https://humanists.international/2020/01/jesuismila-how-muslim-fundamentalists-ruined-the-life-of-a-french-girl/?lang=nl)

islamic terror doesn't only work with bombs to destroy our free societies.


Yeah, it also inspires ethno-nationalist demagogues to make sure free societies don't remain that way.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 05, 2020, 01:18:43 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 05, 2020, 12:40:11 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 05, 2020, 10:53:50 AM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 01:36:44 PM
Well cults ruin lives in my country all the time. Many flavors of Islam have that kind of thing going on.

The owner of the Chiefs proclaimed that his team won the Superbowl because God blessed his family.  The players may also have had something to do with it but that seemed to be a secondary factor in the mind of the owner.  Really it was all about him and his family.

Not commented on was what they had done for the last 50 years to be so disfavoured by God.


I mean...sure. Some people might think Andy Reid is some sort of God.

:D
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on February 05, 2020, 03:59:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 05, 2020, 12:48:11 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on February 03, 2020, 01:33:31 PM
https://humanists.international/2020/01/jesuismila-how-muslim-fundamentalists-ruined-the-life-of-a-french-girl/?lang=nl (https://humanists.international/2020/01/jesuismila-how-muslim-fundamentalists-ruined-the-life-of-a-french-girl/?lang=nl)

islamic terror doesn't only work with bombs to destroy our free societies.


Yeah, it also inspires ethno-nationalist demagogues to make sure free societies don't remain that way.

https://charliehebdo.fr/2020/01/english/english-editorial-by-riss-teenagers-to-the-stake/
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on February 05, 2020, 04:50:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/E6xB0zw.jpg)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on February 05, 2020, 10:12:27 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on February 05, 2020, 03:59:41 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 05, 2020, 12:48:11 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on February 03, 2020, 01:33:31 PM
https://humanists.international/2020/01/jesuismila-how-muslim-fundamentalists-ruined-the-life-of-a-french-girl/?lang=nl (https://humanists.international/2020/01/jesuismila-how-muslim-fundamentalists-ruined-the-life-of-a-french-girl/?lang=nl)

islamic terror doesn't only work with bombs to destroy our free societies.


Yeah, it also inspires ethno-nationalist demagogues to make sure free societies don't remain that way.

https://charliehebdo.fr/2020/01/english/english-editorial-by-riss-teenagers-to-the-stake/
Don't bother.  Raz is one of those people who believe freedom of religion to be an absolute right.  If they want to make life a living hell for some teenage girl, so be it, it is their God given right.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on February 05, 2020, 10:19:13 PM
I guess I don't understand how we can't both support the rights of Muslims while also working to prevent abuses and crimes committed inside their communities. I mean surely that is also a big part of supporting Muslims (and those who choose to leave Islam).
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on February 05, 2020, 10:40:33 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 05, 2020, 10:12:27 PM

Don't bother.  Raz is one of those people who believe freedom of religion to be an absolute right.


I love this!  I think it may be my new sig.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on February 06, 2020, 06:53:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 05, 2020, 10:19:13 PM
I guess I don't understand how we can't both support the rights of Muslims while also working to prevent abuses and crimes committed inside their communities. I mean surely that is also a big part of supporting Muslims (and those who choose to leave Islam).
Religion, just like capitalism, must be sometime reigned in by intervention of the State to prevent abuses.  Raz and many others believe in absolute religious freedom, and that is incompatible with my views of a society's governance.  I do not believe discrimination against homosexuals or transgenders, for example, should be tolerated just because someone's religion mandates it. 

And that's coming from a right winger frequently classified as homophobic.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 06, 2020, 07:38:39 PM
Quote from: dps on February 05, 2020, 11:43:08 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 05, 2020, 10:53:50 AM
Not commented on was what they had done for the last 50 years to be so disfavoured by God.

Tried to corner the world-wide silver market.

Huh - never realized that family was those Hunts.  Learn something new every day. I always thought they got wiped when the corner collapsed.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on February 06, 2020, 07:40:55 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 06, 2020, 07:38:39 PM
Quote from: dps on February 05, 2020, 11:43:08 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 05, 2020, 10:53:50 AM
Not commented on was what they had done for the last 50 years to be so disfavoured by God.

Tried to corner the world-wide silver market.

Huh - never realized that family was those Hunts.  Learn something new every day. I always thought they got wiped when the corner collapsed.

They came pretty close.  I read that Lamar Hunt had to pawn his Super Bowl IV ring, and several family members lost their homes.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on February 06, 2020, 08:00:04 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 06, 2020, 06:53:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 05, 2020, 10:19:13 PM
I guess I don't understand how we can't both support the rights of Muslims while also working to prevent abuses and crimes committed inside their communities. I mean surely that is also a big part of supporting Muslims (and those who choose to leave Islam).
Religion, just like capitalism, must be sometime reigned in by intervention of the State to prevent abuses.  Raz and many others believe in absolute religious freedom, and that is incompatible with my views of a society's governance.  I do not believe discrimination against homosexuals or transgenders, for example, should be tolerated just because someone's religion mandates it. 

And that's coming from a right winger frequently classified as homophobic.

Which other rights are you not a fan of?


Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on February 07, 2020, 01:20:39 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 06, 2020, 08:00:04 PM
Which other rights are you not a fan of?
The right to own a bazooka, a tank, a nuclear submarine, a ballistic missile launch site and that sort of things.
I never pretended to be a libertarian.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on February 07, 2020, 01:26:03 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 07, 2020, 01:20:39 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 06, 2020, 08:00:04 PM
Which other rights are you not a fan of?
The right to own a bazooka, a tank, a nuclear submarine, a ballistic missile launch site and that sort of things.
I never pretended to be a libertarian.

Okay, so just the rights of to weapons, free speech and religion.  Nothing else?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 07, 2020, 06:16:49 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 07, 2020, 01:26:03 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 07, 2020, 01:20:39 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 06, 2020, 08:00:04 PM
Which other rights are you not a fan of?
The right to own a bazooka, a tank, a nuclear submarine, a ballistic missile launch site and that sort of things.
I never pretended to be a libertarian.

Okay, so just the rights of to weapons, free speech and religion.  Nothing else?

Free speech includes opposition to anti-blasphemy laws, something Viper is against , careful Raz!
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on February 07, 2020, 03:01:26 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 07, 2020, 06:16:49 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 07, 2020, 01:26:03 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 07, 2020, 01:20:39 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 06, 2020, 08:00:04 PM
Which other rights are you not a fan of?
The right to own a bazooka, a tank, a nuclear submarine, a ballistic missile launch site and that sort of things.
I never pretended to be a libertarian.

Okay, so just the rights of to weapons, free speech and religion.  Nothing else?

Free speech includes opposition to anti-blasphemy laws, something Viper is against , careful Raz!


I guess while we are at it, what rights would you take away from people? 
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 07, 2020, 03:51:20 PM
Quote from: dps on February 06, 2020, 07:40:55 PM
They came pretty close.  I read that Lamar Hunt had to pawn his Super Bowl IV ring, and several family members lost their homes.

I think my mental recollection of the Hunt corner is mixed up with the Murphy-Ackroyd Trading Places (where the main baddies are clearly based on/inspired by the Hunt brothers).
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on February 08, 2020, 06:14:48 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 07, 2020, 01:26:03 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 07, 2020, 01:20:39 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 06, 2020, 08:00:04 PM
Which other rights are you not a fan of?
The right to own a bazooka, a tank, a nuclear submarine, a ballistic missile launch site and that sort of things.
I never pretended to be a libertarian.

Okay, so just the rights of to weapons, free speech and religion.  Nothing else?
only religion is an absolute right in canada.  right to free speech is not as absolute as in the US, and there is definately no such thing as a right to weapons.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on February 08, 2020, 06:40:03 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 07, 2020, 03:51:20 PM
Quote from: dps on February 06, 2020, 07:40:55 PM
They came pretty close.  I read that Lamar Hunt had to pawn his Super Bowl IV ring, and several family members lost their homes.

I think my mental recollection of the Hunt corner is mixed up with the Murphy-Ackroyd Trading Places (where the main baddies are clearly based on/inspired by the Hunt brothers).

Yeah same here; funny and topical at the time for the film.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on February 09, 2020, 09:43:30 AM
Semi-related. This week, police found an illegal arms collection/stockpile in Schleswig-Holstein. Rusted mortar shells, panzerfausts, rifles, a machine gun, several kilograms of explosives, plus chemicals and material for making ammo, ...

Here's a picture of what they found:

(https://www.shz.de/img/husumer-nachrichten/crop27280087/3785679299-cv16_9-w600-h337-o/23-118348511-23-118348513-1581008671.jpg)

Oh, wait, that picture is from 2015, and was found with the same guy (he also stored 90 kg of TNT at the time).

The story is basically a footnote.

Now imagine if the 40 year oldweirdo/wannabe collector wasn't a guy with a German name, but rather was called Murat or Hüseyin - this would have been all over the news.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on February 09, 2020, 09:50:21 AM
Horse cavalry isn't used much anymore, so I don't think people would care.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on February 19, 2020, 07:13:17 PM
Mass shooting in German city of Hanau:

Quote

At least eight people were killed in a shooting incident late on Wednesday in the German city of Hanau, mass-selling Bild newspaper reported, citing prosecutors.


http://feeds.reuters.com/~r/Reuters/worldNews/~3/7P8CTU812G0/shooting-in-german-city-leaves-at-least-eight-people-dead-report-idUSKBN20D2VG (http://feeds.reuters.com/~r/Reuters/worldNews/~3/7P8CTU812G0/shooting-in-german-city-leaves-at-least-eight-people-dead-report-idUSKBN20D2VG)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Larch on February 19, 2020, 07:28:40 PM
I'd bet on organised crime rather than terrorism, though.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 20, 2020, 02:26:27 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 19, 2020, 07:28:40 PM
I'd bet on organised crime rather than terrorism, though.

Why? Because it took place on shisha bars?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on February 20, 2020, 02:34:44 AM
11 dead. The supposed perp and another person were found dead in his apartment. Police say that a note and video have been recovered from his place, but the contents haven't been confirmed yet.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on February 20, 2020, 02:35:52 AM
The plot thickens.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 20, 2020, 02:38:50 AM
Le Figaro, through Bild, says far-right. No mentally unstable understatement, as for islamists.

https://www.bild.de/news/2020/news/hanau-schuesse-tote-tatverdaechtiger-68909822.bild.html (https://www.bild.de/news/2020/news/hanau-schuesse-tote-tatverdaechtiger-68909822.bild.html)

QuoteTäter mordete aus rechtsradikalen Motiven
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on February 20, 2020, 04:37:27 AM
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/02/19/germany-shooting-hanau-latest-news/

QuoteGerman press have named the suspect in the Hanau shootings as Tobias R, a German national. He reportedly left behind a confessional letter and video which make clear he had far-Right motives. According to one unconfirmed report, in the video he speaks of the need to "destroy" communities who can no longer be "expelled" from Germany.

The letter and video reportedly shows signs of confusion and paranoia. The letter includes a "personal message to all Americans" in which Tobias R claims there are underground facilities in the US where children and mistreated and killed. It urges Americans to "wake up and fight" against this.

The video reportedly includes claims Germany is controlled by intelligence services. It is also denigratory of Arab and Turkish immigrants.

Tobias R was found dead when police stormed his home in Hanau in the early hours of the morning. The body of an elderly woman was also found. Reports she was the gunman's mother have not been confirmed.

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on February 20, 2020, 05:13:52 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 20, 2020, 02:38:50 AM
Le Figaro, through Bild, says far-right. No mentally unstable understatement, as for islamists.


:rolleyes:

They're not exactly claiming he was mentally stable.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on February 20, 2020, 05:18:41 AM
Confusion isn't an illness or all of Languish is sick. And paranoia is just being sensible.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on February 20, 2020, 06:28:47 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 08, 2020, 06:14:48 PM
only religion is an absolute right in canada.

I kind of don't think that's entirely true..  I doubt you have a legal right to practice human sacrifice in Canada because your religion calls for it.  I suppose I could be wrong about that, but probably not.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 20, 2020, 07:07:52 AM
Quote from: The Brain on February 20, 2020, 05:18:41 AM
Confusion isn't an illness or all of Languish is sick. And paranoia is just being sensible.

Well, maybe not sensible, too strong of a word, but just because you are paranoid does not mean you have no enemies.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Larch on February 20, 2020, 08:04:03 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 20, 2020, 02:26:27 AM
Quote from: The Larch on February 19, 2020, 07:28:40 PM
I'd bet on organised crime rather than terrorism, though.

Why? Because it took place on shisha bars?

It was my understanding that gun violence in Germany is mostly related to organized crime. A few years ago there was another big gunfight in a restaurant that was score settling by branches of the Calabrian Ndrangheta.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on February 20, 2020, 11:59:59 AM
The writings "Message to whole German People" left behind by the perp point towards mental illness. He thought he was constantly being observed. Additionally, he wrote that certain peoples are unable to achieve anything while Germans create everything good and beautiful. The other races would need to be eliminated, "even though we're talking about billions". He listed basically Africa, Middle East, Asia, South America as to be eliminated.

Another part of the manifesto deals with his high standards for picking a woman, and that he's been single for 18 years. Also, that he has influenced events throughout the world because his thoughts have been tapped into by surveillance. He was convinced since being a child that his mind was being observed, because he would hear voiced or "feel" when someone connected to him.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 01:02:47 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 20, 2020, 02:38:50 AM
Le Figaro, through Bild, says far-right. No mentally unstable understatement, as for islamists.

https://www.bild.de/news/2020/news/hanau-schuesse-tote-tatverdaechtiger-68909822.bild.html (https://www.bild.de/news/2020/news/hanau-schuesse-tote-tatverdaechtiger-68909822.bild.html)

QuoteTäter mordete aus rechtsradikalen Motiven


I'm so sorry. :console: I hope you will be okay.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 20, 2020, 01:07:26 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 01:02:47 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 20, 2020, 02:38:50 AM
Le Figaro, through Bild, says far-right. No mentally unstable understatement, as for islamists.

https://www.bild.de/news/2020/news/hanau-schuesse-tote-tatverdaechtiger-68909822.bild.html (https://www.bild.de/news/2020/news/hanau-schuesse-tote-tatverdaechtiger-68909822.bild.html)

QuoteTäter mordete aus rechtsradikalen Motiven

I'm so sorry. :console: I hope you will be okay.

Chillax, I left Frankfurt am Main years ago. Besides, Hanau was a far away suburb anyways.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 01:15:43 PM
No,  You really wanted this to a Muslim.  I'm sorry that it wasn't.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 20, 2020, 01:20:19 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 01:15:43 PM
No,  You really wanted this to a Muslim.  I'm sorry that it wasn't.

You wish, you anti-Francophone bigot and self-confessed nutcase.
I pointed out quickly it was the far right. Violent islamists are unlikely to deliberately target other muslims in Europe.

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 01:49:07 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 20, 2020, 01:20:19 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 01:15:43 PM
No,  You really wanted this to a Muslim.  I'm sorry that it wasn't.

You wish, you anti-Francophone bigot Anti-Nationalist and self-confessed nutcase.
I pointed out quickly it was the far right. Violent islamists are unlikely to deliberately target other muslims in Europe.

There was a problem with your post so I pitched in to help.  It was the least I could do. :)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 20, 2020, 01:56:44 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 01:49:07 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 20, 2020, 01:20:19 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 01:15:43 PM
No,  You really wanted this to a Muslim.  I'm sorry that it wasn't.

You wish, you anti-Francophone bigot and self-confessed nutcase.
I pointed out quickly it was the far right. Violent islamists are unlikely to deliberately target other muslims in Europe.

There was a problem with your post so I pitched in to help.  It was the least I could do. :)

"Help" from the former Erdogan groupie and still pro-islamist, anti-Charlie self-confessed nutcase ? Nein, Danke!
:secret:

I did not believe it was organized crime when replying to the Galego Larch, a special kind of Hispanic, like me.
How you jumped to conclusions is not that surprising from you, though usually you wait until Mosque Day for your anti-Francophone cyberjihad. Boring day or what?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on February 20, 2020, 02:54:54 PM
Quote from: dps on February 20, 2020, 06:28:47 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 08, 2020, 06:14:48 PM
only religion is an absolute right in canada.

I kind of don't think that's entirely true..  I doubt you have a legal right to practice human sacrifice in Canada because your religion calls for it.  I suppose I could be wrong about that, but probably not.
It hasn't been tested in court yet, so I don't know ;)

There's an interesting case in court right now, where two individuals are sueing the government for leaving them at the mercy of a religious education that leaves them ill prepared for the real world.  We'll see how that goes.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on February 20, 2020, 02:58:24 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2020, 02:54:54 PM

There's an interesting case in court right now, where two individuals are sueing the government for leaving them at the mercy of a religious education that leaves them ill prepared for the real world.  We'll see how that goes.

Yeah the ability of religious groups to brainwash children with private "education" (Scientology with its fake schools comes to mind) has always been one of those necessary evils. It is horrible and destructive to the poor kids caught up in it, but making it illegal opens up all kinds of other problems.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 20, 2020, 02:59:23 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2020, 02:54:54 PM
Quote from: dps on February 20, 2020, 06:28:47 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 08, 2020, 06:14:48 PM
only religion is an absolute right in canada.

I kind of don't think that's entirely true..  I doubt you have a legal right to practice human sacrifice in Canada because your religion calls for it.  I suppose I could be wrong about that, but probably not.
It hasn't been tested in court yet, so I don't know ;)

There's an interesting case in court right now, where two individuals are sueing the government for leaving them at the mercy of a religious education that leaves them ill prepared for the real world.  We'll see how that goes.

Actually it has - well not human sacrifice but something much more benign - the right to study in a christian community.  And the party asserting that their freedom of religion should prevail lost - look up the Trinity Western Case.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Barrister on February 20, 2020, 03:06:09 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 20, 2020, 02:59:23 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2020, 02:54:54 PM
Quote from: dps on February 20, 2020, 06:28:47 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 08, 2020, 06:14:48 PM
only religion is an absolute right in canada.

I kind of don't think that's entirely true..  I doubt you have a legal right to practice human sacrifice in Canada because your religion calls for it.  I suppose I could be wrong about that, but probably not.
It hasn't been tested in court yet, so I don't know ;)

There's an interesting case in court right now, where two individuals are sueing the government for leaving them at the mercy of a religious education that leaves them ill prepared for the real world.  We'll see how that goes.

Actually it has - well not human sacrifice but something much more benign - the right to study in a christian community.  And the party asserting that their freedom of religion should prevail lost - look up the Trinity Western Case.

Meh - that case really turned on some hand-waving "lawyers are special" kind of reasoning.

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 20, 2020, 03:36:55 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 20, 2020, 03:06:09 PM
Meh - that case really turned on some hand-waving "lawyers are special" kind of reasoning.

:huh:

The case started out as a challenge to Trinity's covenant that each student had to agree to.  Trinity took the position that it had a constitutional right to impose the covenant on its students to create a christian community of study. 

You may not have liked the result but you demean the important position on Freedom of Religion that was dismissed by the SCC by saying it was just a lot of hand waving.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on February 20, 2020, 03:54:09 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 20, 2020, 02:59:23 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2020, 02:54:54 PM
Quote from: dps on February 20, 2020, 06:28:47 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 08, 2020, 06:14:48 PM
only religion is an absolute right in canada.

I kind of don't think that's entirely true..  I doubt you have a legal right to practice human sacrifice in Canada because your religion calls for it.  I suppose I could be wrong about that, but probably not.
It hasn't been tested in court yet, so I don't know ;)

There's an interesting case in court right now, where two individuals are sueing the government for leaving them at the mercy of a religious education that leaves them ill prepared for the real world.  We'll see how that goes.

Actually it has - well not human sacrifice but something much more benign - the right to study in a christian community.  And the party asserting that their freedom of religion should prevail lost - look up the Trinity Western Case.

Indeed.

Viper may not be aware of the reasons of the Court in that case, but it is as far from Canada having religion as an "absolue right" as possible.

From the majority:

Quote[101]                      In saying this, we do not dispute that "[d]isagreement and discomfort with the views of others is unavoidable in a free and democratic society" (C.A. reasons, at para. 188), and that a secular state cannot interfere with religious freedom unless it conflicts with or harms overriding public interests (para. 131, citing Loyola, at para. 43). But more is at stake here than simply "disagreement and discomfort" with views that some will find offensive. This Court has held that religious freedom can be limited where an individual's religious beliefs or practices have the effect of "injur[ing] his or her neighbours or their parallel rights to hold and manifest beliefs and opinions of their own" (Big M, at p. 346). Likewise, in Multani, the Court held that state interference with religious freedom can be justified "when a person's freedom to act in accordance with his or her beliefs may cause harm to or interfere with the rights of others" (para. 26). Being required by someone else's religious beliefs to behave contrary to one's sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful. Being required to do so offends the public perception that freedom of religion includes freedom from religion.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 04:14:36 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 20, 2020, 01:56:44 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 01:49:07 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 20, 2020, 01:20:19 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 01:15:43 PM
No,  You really wanted this to a Muslim.  I'm sorry that it wasn't.

You wish, you anti-Francophone bigot and self-confessed nutcase.
I pointed out quickly it was the far right. Violent islamists are unlikely to deliberately target other muslims in Europe.

There was a problem with your post so I pitched in to help.  It was the least I could do. :)

"Help" from the former Erdogan groupie and still pro-islamist, anti-Charlie self-confessed nutcase ? Nein, Danke!
:secret:

I did not believe it was organized crime when replying to the Galego Larch, a special kind of Hispanic, like me.
How you jumped to conclusions is not that surprising from you, though usually you wait until Mosque Day for your anti-Francophone cyberjihad. Boring day or what?

Yeah, I don't hate people based on their language or religion.  I'm not a Trumpist.  Why would I support that sort of mindset in other countries?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on February 20, 2020, 04:17:39 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 04:14:36 PM
Yeah, I don't hate people based on their language or religion.  I'm not a Trumpist.  Why would I support that sort of mindset in other countries?

Yeah you might hate the game, but don't hate the players. Besides critisizing oppressive religions is more about helping those who are going to have the misfortune of being born into them, rather than hating them.

Edit: Or at least should be more about that...
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on February 20, 2020, 04:20:58 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2020, 03:54:09 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 20, 2020, 02:59:23 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2020, 02:54:54 PM
Quote from: dps on February 20, 2020, 06:28:47 AM
Quote from: viper37 on February 08, 2020, 06:14:48 PM
only religion is an absolute right in canada.

I kind of don't think that's entirely true..  I doubt you have a legal right to practice human sacrifice in Canada because your religion calls for it.  I suppose I could be wrong about that, but probably not.
It hasn't been tested in court yet, so I don't know ;)

There's an interesting case in court right now, where two individuals are sueing the government for leaving them at the mercy of a religious education that leaves them ill prepared for the real world.  We'll see how that goes.

Actually it has - well not human sacrifice but something much more benign - the right to study in a christian community.  And the party asserting that their freedom of religion should prevail lost - look up the Trinity Western Case.

Indeed.

Viper may not be aware of the reasons of the Court in that case, but it is as far from Canada having religion as an "absolue right" as possible.

From the majority:

Quote[101]                      In saying this, we do not dispute that "[d]isagreement and discomfort with the views of others is unavoidable in a free and democratic society" (C.A. reasons, at para. 188), and that a secular state cannot interfere with religious freedom unless it conflicts with or harms overriding public interests (para. 131, citing Loyola, at para. 43). But more is at stake here than simply "disagreement and discomfort" with views that some will find offensive. This Court has held that religious freedom can be limited where an individual's religious beliefs or practices have the effect of "injur[ing] his or her neighbours or their parallel rights to hold and manifest beliefs and opinions of their own" (Big M, at p. 346). Likewise, in Multani, the Court held that state interference with religious freedom can be justified "when a person's freedom to act in accordance with his or her beliefs may cause harm to or interfere with the rights of others" (para. 26). Being required by someone else's religious beliefs to behave contrary to one's sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful. Being required to do so offends the public perception that freedom of religion includes freedom from religion.

yes, I used an hyperbole to describe the current political climate.
no, I do not believe human sacrifices would be tolerated by our politicians.
but they have no problem tolerating backward education practices in the name of freedom of religion:
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/11/28/exstudent_of_ultraorthodox_jewish_school_system_in_quebec_wants_compensation_for_poor_education.html
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 20, 2020, 04:24:51 PM
Viper, read before posting. The case we are talking about resulted in the reverse conclusion of what you say the law is.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on February 20, 2020, 04:28:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 04:14:36 PM
Yeah, I don't hate people based on their language or religion.  I'm not a Trumpist.  Why would I support that sort of mindset in other countries?
because you don't see a problem with religious extremism, as demonstrated by your past love of Erdogan.  You fail to see where it leads, and when finally confronted with the truth, it's too late to do anything.  In that, you are exactly the same as a Trumpist, willing to tolerate the intolerable.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Barrister on February 20, 2020, 04:34:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 20, 2020, 03:36:55 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 20, 2020, 03:06:09 PM
Meh - that case really turned on some hand-waving "lawyers are special" kind of reasoning.

:huh:

The case started out as a challenge to Trinity's covenant that each student had to agree to.  Trinity took the position that it had a constitutional right to impose the covenant on its students to create a christian community of study. 

You may not have liked the result but you demean the important position on Freedom of Religion that was dismissed by the SCC by saying it was just a lot of hand waving.

Sure I can.  There was a binding, on point authority, Trinity Western I.  That involved the exact same covenant, exact same term.  The only difference was that TWI involved the school opening a teacher's college, not a law school.

In TWII they never said TWI was wrongly decided.  It's not that TWI was from long ago when gay rights weren't recognized - it was from 2001.  It was just that lawyers are special.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on February 20, 2020, 04:39:21 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 20, 2020, 04:24:51 PM
Viper, read before posting. The case we are talking about resulted in the reverse conclusion of what you say the law is.
there is the law.  and there is what you chose to prosecute.
If the law was really enforced, there would have been no case like the one I posted.
It is not really surprising for a country that has never prosecuted fgm.
we are very touchy on religious practice.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 20, 2020, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2020, 03:54:09 PM
Viper may not be aware of the reasons of the Court in that case, but it is as far from Canada having religion as an "absolue right" as possible.

Wrong, as far as possible would be to outlaw religion. :contract:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 20, 2020, 04:43:14 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2020, 04:28:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 04:14:36 PM
Yeah, I don't hate people based on their language or religion.  I'm not a Trumpist.  Why would I support that sort of mindset in other countries?
because you don't see a problem with religious extremism, as demonstrated by your past love of Erdogan.  You fail to see where it leads, and when finally confronted with the truth, it's too late to do anything.  In that, you are exactly the same as a Trumpist, willing to tolerate the intolerable.

Erdogan seems pretty mainstream as Muslims go.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on February 20, 2020, 04:44:12 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 20, 2020, 04:41:47 PM
Quote from: Malthus on February 20, 2020, 03:54:09 PM
Viper may not be aware of the reasons of the Court in that case, but it is as far from Canada having religion as an "absolue right" as possible.

Wrong, as far as possible would be to outlaw religion. :contract:

Is that possible?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on February 20, 2020, 04:50:31 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 20, 2020, 04:44:12 PM
Is that possible?

I don't think so, but China is giving it a shot.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 20, 2020, 04:55:05 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 20, 2020, 04:34:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on February 20, 2020, 03:36:55 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 20, 2020, 03:06:09 PM
Meh - that case really turned on some hand-waving "lawyers are special" kind of reasoning.

:huh:

The case started out as a challenge to Trinity's covenant that each student had to agree to.  Trinity took the position that it had a constitutional right to impose the covenant on its students to create a christian community of study. 

You may not have liked the result but you demean the important position on Freedom of Religion that was dismissed by the SCC by saying it was just a lot of hand waving.

Sure I can.  There was a binding, on point authority, Trinity Western I.  That involved the exact same covenant, exact same term.  The only difference was that TWI involved the school opening a teacher's college, not a law school.

In TWII they never said TWI was wrongly decided.  It's not that TWI was from long ago when gay rights weren't recognized - it was from 2001.  It was just that lawyers are special.

I have already explained, at the time, why that other authority was not binding.  I don't really care to dance that dance again.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on February 20, 2020, 05:21:00 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2020, 04:20:58 PM


yes, I used an hyperbole to describe the current political climate.
no, I do not believe human sacrifices would be tolerated by our politicians.
but they have no problem tolerating backward education practices in the name of freedom of religion:
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/11/28/exstudent_of_ultraorthodox_jewish_school_system_in_quebec_wants_compensation_for_poor_education.html

The linked case seems more about the abuse of the litigation and welfare systems than anything else. Dude is 38 years old, had 4 kids, and lives off welfare; claims his Hassidic childhood education prevented him from ever learning English or French?  Wants to sue the government for a million dollars?

I have questions.  :lol:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 05:59:05 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2020, 04:28:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 04:14:36 PM
Yeah, I don't hate people based on their language or religion.  I'm not a Trumpist.  Why would I support that sort of mindset in other countries?
because you don't see a problem with religious extremism, as demonstrated by your past love of Erdogan.  You fail to see where it leads, and when finally confronted with the truth, it's too late to do anything.  In that, you are exactly the same as a Trumpist, willing to tolerate the intolerable.


Yeah, that's what Trump's problem is.  He's just too tolerant.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 20, 2020, 06:33:51 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 20, 2020, 04:43:14 PM

Erdogan seems pretty mainstream as Muslims go.
:lol: I remember this argument from before I left. The issue with Erdogan isn't that he's an Islamic extremist, many of his enemies are religious groups, it's that he's a Putinish authoritarian.

What's the Canadian position on Jehovah's Witnesses and blood transfusions?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 20, 2020, 06:45:32 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 20, 2020, 06:33:51 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 20, 2020, 04:43:14 PM

Erdogan seems pretty mainstream as Muslims go.
:lol: I remember this argument from before I left. The issue with Erdogan isn't that he's an Islamic extremist, many of his enemies are religious groups, it's that he's a Putinish authoritarian.

What's the Canadian position on Jehovah's Witnesses and blood transfusions?

Court can order it over the objection of the parents in certain circumstances.  And in fact can be ordered even if the child refuses.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: dps on February 20, 2020, 06:48:39 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 20, 2020, 04:43:14 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2020, 04:28:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 04:14:36 PM
Yeah, I don't hate people based on their language or religion.  I'm not a Trumpist.  Why would I support that sort of mindset in other countries?
because you don't see a problem with religious extremism, as demonstrated by your past love of Erdogan.  You fail to see where it leads, and when finally confronted with the truth, it's too late to do anything.  In that, you are exactly the same as a Trumpist, willing to tolerate the intolerable.

Erdogan seems pretty mainstream as Muslims go.

To be honest, for the most part he seems more like your standard-issue tinpot dictator wannabe to me.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 21, 2020, 06:10:47 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 20, 2020, 06:33:51 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on February 20, 2020, 04:43:14 PM

Erdogan seems pretty mainstream as Muslims go.
:lol: I remember this argument from before I left. The issue with Erdogan isn't that he's an Islamic extremist, many of his enemies are religious groups, it's that he's a Putinish authoritarian.

He's a nationalist-islamist, good at double-speak, at the least in the beginning. Mainstream? At best, only compared to Wahhabis. Something it took a long time to understand for some posters here.
It's just that after the Gezi Park protests it became impossible to ignore the true nature of his régime. The willful blindness of the left and short-sighted business interests (remember the islamic calvinism article?) back then even wanted Turkey in the EU. Remember the Erdogan quote in 2008 about assimilation being a crime against humanity? Here is some bleeding heart wisdom about it from that time:

https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/the-world-from-berlin-erdogan-s-visit-leaves-german-conservatives-fuming-a-534724.html (https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/the-world-from-berlin-erdogan-s-visit-leaves-german-conservatives-fuming-a-534724.html)

Quote"The word assimilation might have been unfortunate. But Erdogan basically called for support for a sensible integration of the Turks living in Germany. His proposal to set up Turkish schools here isn't that far-fetched. What makes Erdogan's idea any different from Berlin's efforts abroad? A frightening portion of the federal government's cultural budget goes toward setting up German schools. And German teachers work there. So why all the outrage?"

"The only explanation for all the fuss can be that emotions always run high regarding Turkey's efforts to get closer to Europe -- whether Turkey tries to become a member of the EU, or loosens its ban on headscarves, or promotes preserving its own cultural identity in Germany. All too often the Turkish government is presumed to be secretly motivated by a creeping Islamization. It's time to deal with Turkey more soberly."

Blame German conservatives instead, don't blame Herr Dogan. Too bad well-informed people knew his true nature, in Turkey and abroad.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on February 21, 2020, 01:58:18 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 05:59:05 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2020, 04:28:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 04:14:36 PM
Yeah, I don't hate people based on their language or religion.  I'm not a Trumpist.  Why would I support that sort of mindset in other countries?
because you don't see a problem with religious extremism, as demonstrated by your past love of Erdogan.  You fail to see where it leads, and when finally confronted with the truth, it's too late to do anything.  In that, you are exactly the same as a Trumpist, willing to tolerate the intolerable.

Yeah, that's what Trump's problem is.  He's just too tolerant.
Moron.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on February 21, 2020, 01:59:42 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 20, 2020, 06:33:51 PM
What's the Canadian position on Jehovah's Witnesses and blood transfusions?
It's the least of the problems with this sect.  But the courts will not intervene for adults, to protect them against themselves and the nefarious influence of their cult. Only for minors.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on February 21, 2020, 03:38:43 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 21, 2020, 01:58:18 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 05:59:05 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 20, 2020, 04:28:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 20, 2020, 04:14:36 PM
Yeah, I don't hate people based on their language or religion.  I'm not a Trumpist.  Why would I support that sort of mindset in other countries?
because you don't see a problem with religious extremism, as demonstrated by your past love of Erdogan.  You fail to see where it leads, and when finally confronted with the truth, it's too late to do anything.  In that, you are exactly the same as a Trumpist, willing to tolerate the intolerable.

Yeah, that's what Trump's problem is.  He's just too tolerant.
Moron.

This Erdogan thing is interesting.  I didn't think he was a Jihadi and suddenly I'm in love with him.  There are echos of that sort of talk through out US history.  Does French have equivalents of "X lover" where "x" is blacks, or Jews, or Muslims, or whatever group is polluting your culture or race at the moment?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on February 21, 2020, 04:20:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 21, 2020, 03:38:43 PM

This Erdogan thing is interesting.  I didn't think he was a Jihadi and suddenly I'm in love with him.

Um you went a little beyond just believing he wasn't a Jihadi (I don't think anybody claimed that...that is a bit of a strawman). Be honest you praised what we he was doing for quite some time.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 21, 2020, 04:23:21 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 21, 2020, 04:20:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 21, 2020, 03:38:43 PM

This Erdogan thing is interesting.  I didn't think he was a Jihadi and suddenly I'm in love with him.

Um you went a little beyond just believing he wasn't a Jihadi (I don't think anybody claimed that...that is a bit of a strawman). Be honest you praised what we he was doing for quite some time.
Yeah. And to begin with he was a good PM - that changed.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on February 21, 2020, 04:46:34 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 21, 2020, 04:20:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 21, 2020, 03:38:43 PM

This Erdogan thing is interesting.  I didn't think he was a Jihadi and suddenly I'm in love with him.

Um you went a little beyond just believing he wasn't a Jihadi (I don't think anybody claimed that...that is a bit of a strawman). Be honest you praised what we he was doing for quite some time.


Duck just did that.  I praised him for liberalizing the economy and weakening the despotic CHP.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on February 21, 2020, 05:05:13 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 21, 2020, 04:46:34 PM
Duck just did that.  I praised him for liberalizing the economy and weakening the despotic CHP.

Duck did not call him a Jihadi, though obviously as I am friends with many of those Gulenists who stupidly put him in power (and are now living in exile having had all their property confiscated and their families arrested) I am sure he would probably not look kindly on that either.

I never trusted Erdogan at all. You were so blinded by your hatred of the CHP you saw nothing but rainbows and sunshine for an exessively long time. I did find that rather tiresome.

But hey good on your for coming to your senses eventually.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on February 21, 2020, 05:29:52 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 21, 2020, 03:38:43 PM
Does French have equivalents of "X lover" where "x" is blacks, or Jews, or Muslims, or whatever group is polluting your culture or race at the moment?
Not that I know of.  This concept of "race traitor" is pretty alien to us over here.  We just dislike religious fanatics.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on February 21, 2020, 05:36:24 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 21, 2020, 04:23:21 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 21, 2020, 04:20:00 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 21, 2020, 03:38:43 PM

This Erdogan thing is interesting.  I didn't think he was a Jihadi and suddenly I'm in love with him.

Um you went a little beyond just believing he wasn't a Jihadi (I don't think anybody claimed that...that is a bit of a strawman). Be honest you praised what we he was doing for quite some time.
Yeah. And to begin with he was a good PM - that changed.
He never was a good PM, his ultra religious agenda was quite clearly there from the beginning.  And that led to what we have now, predictably.  But Raz was blinded by his love of the guy.  Just like Trump supporters today will excuse just about anything from him because he brings them their regressive republican agenda.

I do wonder why Raz does not love him as much as Erdogan.  Maybe because he moved too fast?  Or maybe because he never promised to slaughter those evil nationalist Kurds?  He's hard to follow, sometimes.  Likes one dictator, dislike the other.  Likes religious extremists, detest democratic nationalists.  Very hard to comprehend.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on February 21, 2020, 05:46:05 PM
Quote from: viper37 on February 21, 2020, 05:29:52 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 21, 2020, 03:38:43 PM
Does French have equivalents of "X lover" where "x" is blacks, or Jews, or Muslims, or whatever group is polluting your culture or race at the moment?
Not that I know of.  This concept of "race traitor" is pretty alien to us over here.  We just dislike religious fanatics.


You are really stupid if you think I will buy that.  We went over this before just a few months ago. https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/anti-semitic-incidents-in-quebec-increased-by-50-in-2018-audit-shows (https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/anti-semitic-incidents-in-quebec-increased-by-50-in-2018-audit-shows)


You do know that Trump is a Nationalist right?  I mean, he's stated that openly.  A position that you have said is not "Anglo-Saxon".
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 21, 2020, 05:46:14 PM
His first two terms were pretty successful.

What's the ultra-religious agenda? As I say to me he's a Putinist - authoritarian managed democracy with crony capitalism and a call back to cultural and/or religious conservatism - not unlike Orban/Netanyahu/Putin/Modi/Trump than a religious ideologue.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on February 21, 2020, 06:00:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 21, 2020, 05:05:13 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 21, 2020, 04:46:34 PM
Duck just did that.  I praised him for liberalizing the economy and weakening the despotic CHP.

Duck did not call him a Jihadi, though obviously as I am friends with many of those Gulenists who stupidly put him in power (and are now living in exile having had all their property confiscated and their families arrested) I am sure he would probably not look kindly on that either.

I never trusted Erdogan at all. You were so blinded by your hatred of the CHP you saw nothing but rainbows and sunshine for an exessively long time. I did find that rather tiresome.

But hey good on your for coming to your senses eventually.


Sorry I use "Jihadis- and Islamists" pretty interchangeably.  I thought they had the same meaning.  Of course I hate CHP.  They are despotic fascists.  I actually looked back in the archives and no, I was critical of Erdogan.  I explicitly calling him a conservative, and I stated that while I didn't like conservatives that isn't sufficient to overthrow a government which many members of Languish were rooting for at the time.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on February 24, 2020, 10:59:24 AM
A card drove into a carnival parade in Germany. Several wounded including children, no fatalities reported so far.
Driver in custody, doesn't seem to have been an accident.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Zanza on February 24, 2020, 12:37:10 PM
Quote from: Maladict on February 24, 2020, 10:59:24 AM
A card drove into a carnival parade in Germany. Several wounded including children, no fatalities reported so far.
Driver in custody, doesn't seem to have been an accident.
29 year old German perpetrator in a very small village ... another incel Nazi perhaps or something personal...
Apparently he was completely drunk.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on February 24, 2020, 12:47:22 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 21, 2020, 06:00:29 PMI explicitly calling him a conservative, and I stated that while I didn't like conservatives that isn't sufficient to overthrow a government which many members of Languish were rooting for at the time.

What does that even mean in this context? A conservative Turk and a conservative American are very different things. He presented himself as a reformer, never a conservative. I question you really made such a ridiculous out of touch claim.

And spare me your whataboutism.

QuoteSorry I use "Jihadis- and Islamists" pretty interchangeably.

So does that mean you consider the Saudi government a Jihadist one? Or do you not regard them as Islamists?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on February 24, 2020, 12:54:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 24, 2020, 12:47:22 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 21, 2020, 06:00:29 PMI explicitly calling him a conservative, and I stated that while I didn't like conservatives that isn't sufficient to overthrow a government which many members of Languish were rooting for at the time.

What does that even mean in this context? A conservative Turk and a conservative American are very different things. He presented himself as a reformer, never a conservative. I question you really made such a ridiculous out of touch claim.

And spare me your whataboutism.

It is not uncommon to lump Turkey into the same group as Poland, Hungary, Brazil, India, the US etc in terms of conservative movements that have become right wing populists.


https://theweek.com/articles/804453/why-are-rightwing-populists-winning-everywhere

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on February 24, 2020, 03:16:40 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 24, 2020, 12:47:22 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 21, 2020, 06:00:29 PMI explicitly calling him a conservative, and I stated that while I didn't like conservatives that isn't sufficient to overthrow a government which many members of Languish were rooting for at the time.

What does that even mean in this context? A conservative Turk and a conservative American are very different things. He presented himself as a reformer, never a conservative. I question you really made such a ridiculous out of touch claim.

And spare me your whataboutism.

QuoteSorry I use "Jihadis- and Islamists" pretty interchangeably.

So does that mean you consider the Saudi government a Jihadist one? Or do you not regard them as Islamists?


I think that Saudi Arabia teaches the Jihadist ideology and exports it.  So Jihadist might be a fair term.  I don't know.  Probably not.

QuoteHe's a conservative.  While I'm no fan of conservatives I don't believe that's enough to declare him the worst man alive and up end a country.  He's like Victor Orban, yet nobody suggests that Orban is launching suicide attacks, that he be overthrown by force or that he be jailed indefinitely for impromptu poetry jams.  What makes the difference?

Your question has been answered.  http://languish.org/forums/index.php?action=post;quote=1222746;topic=14158.1300

In the future you probably shouldn't question if I would make a ridiculousness claim, because I probably would. :D  While I couldn't find an example of Erdogan saying the world "conservative" because he speaks in Turkish and that language totally alien to to me, I did find that his party describes itself as "conservative".  In fact the term they use to describe their ideology is "Muhafazakâr demokrasi" Conservative Democracy.  So it's likely that Erdogan described himself as a conservative at some point.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on February 24, 2020, 05:41:04 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on February 21, 2020, 05:46:14 PM
His first two terms were pretty successful.

What's the ultra-religious agenda? As I say to me he's a Putinist - authoritarian managed democracy with crony capitalism and a call back to cultural and/or religious conservatism - not unlike Orban/Netanyahu/Putin/Modi/Trump than a religious ideologue.

:lol:
Pretty successful indeed in using the reforms advocated by the EU to curb the power of the secularist Turkish military. His crony capitalism did not show up too much back then as well I suppose.
One can also note the successful use of alleged conspiracies such as Ergenekon (Deep State) and the Sledgehammer coup plan.

As for the islamist agenda, this is common knowledge and has been in the news over here :Reversing secularization for starters, brandishing the Al-Quran during "political" meetings, compulsory islamic lessons in state-owned schools, putting "devout muslims" (read fundies- as teachers there, pushing for the use of islamic scarf, restricting the sale of alcohol, for instance.

https://www.francetvinfo.fr/societe/religion/laicite/turquie-comment-erdo-an-islamise-la-societe_2144534.html (https://www.francetvinfo.fr/societe/religion/laicite/turquie-comment-erdo-an-islamise-la-societe_2144534.html)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on February 24, 2020, 06:23:45 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on February 24, 2020, 05:41:04 PM
Pretty successful indeed in using the reforms advocated by the EU to curb the power of the secularist Turkish military.
Which was and is the right thing to do.

QuoteOne can also note the successful use of alleged conspiracies such as Ergenekon (Deep State) and the Sledgehammer coup plan.
Right-ish, I think. There was truth and falsehood mixed together, to use against AKP enemies. But I think there were conspiracies and coup atttempts. I suppose I see this as a sign of the incipient authoritarianism/Putinism.

QuoteAs for the islamist agenda, this is common knowledge and has been in the news over here :Reversing secularization for starters, brandishing the Al-Quran during "political" meetings, compulsory islamic lessons in state-owned schools, putting "devout muslims" (read fundies- as teachers there, pushing for the use of islamic scarf, restricting the sale of alcohol, for instance.
Again, I mean, where's the ultra-religious agenda. Is this really what's objectionable about Erdogan rather than the corruption, authoritarianism, crony capitalism etc? And looking at the way Putin uses the Orthodox Church, the Hindutva of Modi (strikes me as far more dangerous and ultra-religious) or even the way Orban uses Hungary's "Christian" identity - is it really any different? Maybe it's closer to Modi because I don't think it's mainly cynical.

He is an Islamist, but that's not necessarily a bad thing and it's far from the list of worst things about Erdogan.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on February 24, 2020, 09:16:43 PM
I become upset when Erdogan purges people for disloyalty and oppresses an ethnic minority.  Duck becomes upset when Erdogan encourages women to wear a hat.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Zanza on February 25, 2020, 12:47:31 PM
Quote from: Zanza on February 24, 2020, 12:37:10 PM
Quote from: Maladict on February 24, 2020, 10:59:24 AM
A card drove into a carnival parade in Germany. Several wounded including children, no fatalities reported so far.
Driver in custody, doesn't seem to have been an accident.
29 year old German perpetrator in a very small village ... another incel Nazi perhaps or something personal...
Apparently he was completely drunk.
Looks like an apolitical crazy person.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 05, 2020, 08:27:57 AM
It has been a while but I would not call this back to normal though it's not a coronavirus piece of news:

Islamist Sudanese refugee kills two people in an terrorist knife attack

https://www.france24.com/en/20200404-knife-attack-leaves-two-dead-in-french-town-of-romans-sur-isère-mayor-says (https://www.france24.com/en/20200404-knife-attack-leaves-two-dead-in-french-town-of-romans-sur-is%C3%A8re-mayor-says)

QuoteTerrorism probe launched after knife attack in southeast France leaves two dead


Issued on: 04/04/2020 - 13:27
Modified: 04/04/2020 - 13:28
The town centre of Romans-sur-Isère, France was cordoned off by police after a knife attack on April 4, 2020.



The attack in broad daylight, which President Emmanuel Macron called "an odious act", took place with the country on lockdown in a bid to stem the spread of the deadly coronavirus.

Counter-terrorism prosecutors have launched an investigation into "murder linked to a terrorist enterprise" after the rampage in a string of shops in Romans-sur-Isère, a riverside town with a population of about 35,000.

The assailant – identified only as Abdallah A.-O., a refugee in his 30s from Sudan who lives in the town – was arrested without a fight by police.

"He was found on his knees on the pavement praying in Arabic," the prosecutor's office said.

According to witnesses cited by local radio station France Bleu Drome Ardèche, he shouted "Allahu Akbar!"(God is Greatest) as he stabbed his victims.


"Anyone who had the misfortune to find themselves in his way were attacked," town Mayor Marie-Helène Thoraval told AFP.

David Olivier Reverdy, from the National Police Alliance union, said the assailant had called on police to kill him when they came to arrest him.

The suspect first went into a tobacco shop where he attacked the owner and his wife, Thoraval said.

He then went into a butcher's shop where he seized another knife before heading to the town centre and attacking people in the street outside a bakery.

"He took a knife, jumped over the counter and stabbed a customer, then ran away," the shop owner, Ludovic Breyton, told AFP.

"My wife tried to help the victim but in vain."

Suspect unknown to police, intelligence services

Interior Minister Cristophe Castaner, who visited the scene later in the day, said two people were killed and five others wounded.

"This morning, a man embarked on a terrorist journey," he said.

The initial investigation has "brought to light a determined, murderous course likely to seriously disturb public order through intimidation or terror", according to the national anti-terrorist prosecutor's office.

It said that during a search of the suspect's home, "handwritten documents with religious connotations were found in which the author complains in particular that he lives in a country of non-believers".

The suspect, who obtained refugee status in 2017, was not known to police or intelligence services in France or in Europe, prosecutors said.

Macron denounced the attack in a statement on Twitter.

"The light will be shed on this odious act that casts a shadow over our country, which has already been hit hard in recent weeks," he said.

France is in its third week of a national lockdown over COVID-19, with all but essential businesses ordered to shut and people told to stay at home.

The country has been on terror alert since a wave of deadly jihadist bombings and shootings in Paris in 2015.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on April 05, 2020, 08:37:34 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 05, 2020, 08:27:57 AM
It has been a while but I would not call this back to normal though it's not a coronavirus piece of news:

Islamist Sudanese refugee kills two people in an terrorist knife attack


You'd think that ISIS et al would be trying some dramatic attacks to take advantage of our current crisis?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 05, 2020, 08:40:39 AM
Quote from: mongers on April 05, 2020, 08:37:34 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on April 05, 2020, 08:27:57 AM
It has been a while but I would not call this back to normal though it's not a coronavirus piece of news:

Islamist Sudanese refugee kills two people in an terrorist knife attack


You'd think that ISIS et al would be trying some dramatic attacks to take advantage of our current crisis?

I don't know. He could act on his own; islamist nutcases do not need much encouragement or orders.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Iormlund on April 05, 2020, 08:41:04 AM
During the first weeks they issued a memo telling their members to stay away from Europe for the duration.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 05, 2020, 08:46:36 AM
That's three Sudanese men now arrested, the first an acquaintance from the perpetrator and the third a resident of the same refugee home, according to French media. So no longer a lone wolf attack.

https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/attaque-de-romans-sur-isere-un-troisieme-soudanais-en-garde-a-vue-20200405 (https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/attaque-de-romans-sur-isere-un-troisieme-soudanais-en-garde-a-vue-20200405)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 21, 2020, 06:40:54 AM
Back to "normal" ?
Knife attack so ™Religion of Eternal Peace™ most likely.

https://www.france24.com/en/20200621-several-people-killed-in-stabbing-spree-in-reading (https://www.france24.com/en/20200621-several-people-killed-in-stabbing-spree-in-reading)

QuoteBritish police declare deadly Reading stabbings 'terrorism'




British police said on Sunday they were treating a stabbing spree in which a lone assailant killed three people in a park in the southern English city of Reading as a "terrorism incident".

"Counter Terrorism Policing can now confirm that the stabbing incident that happened in Reading last night (20/6), has now been declared a terrorist incident," Thames Valley Police said in a statement.

The Thames Valley Police force said officers arrested a 25-year-old local man at the scene and they were not looking for anyone else.

"There is no intelligence to suggest that there is any further danger to the public," Detective Chief Superintendent Ian Hunter said earlier on Sunday.

British media had earlier reported that police suspected a terrorist motive and that the man arrested was Libyan. Police did not confirm that or release the suspect's name.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson said his "thoughts are with all of those affected by the appalling incident in Reading".


Boris Johnson #StayAlert

@BorisJohnson
My thoughts are with all of those affected by the appalling incident in Reading and my thanks to the emergency services on the scene.

The violence erupted around 7pm as families and friends were enjoying a warm, sunny evening in the Forbury Gardens park in Reading, a town of about 200,000 residents 40 miles (64 kilometres) west of London.

Witnesses reported that police cars and helicopters descended on the park. Within minutes police had blocked off several roads, and two air ambulances landed nearby.

Personal trainer Lawrence Wort said the park was full of groups socialising on the grass when "one lone person walked through, suddenly shouted some unintelligible words and went around a large group of around 10, trying to stab them".

"He stabbed three of them, severely in the neck, and under the arms, and then turned and started running towards me, and we turned and started running," Wort said. "When he realised that he couldn't catch us, he tried to stab another group. He got one person in the back of the neck and then when he realised everyone was starting to run, he ran out the park."

Police said that "a number of people were injured and taken to hospital. Tragically, three of these people died, and another three sustained serious injuries".

The Royal Berkshire Hospital in Reading said it was treating two casualties from the incident.

The incident came hours after a Black Lives Matter demonstration at Forbury Gardens, but police said there was no connection between the attack and the protest.

Nieema Hassan, one of the organisers of Saturday's protest, said demonstrators had left by the time the violence occurred. In a social media post, she said she was "praying for the people that are affected. I hope they're OK".

Britain's official terrorism threat level stands at "substantial", the middle level on a five-rung scale, meaning an attack is likely.

It had previously stood a notch higher for several years. The country has been hit by a series of violent attacks in recent years, including a suicide bombing at an Ariana Grande concert in Manchester in 2017 that killed 22 people and two deadly vehicle and knife attacks in London the same year.

Airline worker Carlos Garcia Pascual was walking to his home near Forbury Gardens when emergency vehicles and police officers descended. He said it was "chaos" as police yelled at people to leave the area.

"We didn't know if it was a situation like happened in London a few years ago, where the attackers were on the loose," he said. "Forbury Gardens is a peaceful place, a lot of families go there with their kids to play, picnics. To realize that happened in Forbury Gardens is really hard to believe."

(FRANCE 24 with AP and REUTERS)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on June 21, 2020, 07:39:00 AM
Seems like he was a 25 years old Lybian refugee out from prison on probation (non-terrorism). Was under close supervision due to severe mental health issues.

Although I guess the three dead would dispute the efficiency of that supervision.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on June 21, 2020, 07:59:32 AM
Sounds like a similar profile to a lot of the German attacks. Frustrated unwell refugees decide they may as well go out in the name of extremism.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on June 23, 2020, 10:11:32 AM
Quote from: Tyr on June 21, 2020, 07:59:32 AM
Sounds like a similar profile to a lot of the German attacks. Frustrated unwell refugees decide they may as well go out in the name of extremism.

Does seem like the Muslim version of suicide by cop.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 23, 2020, 10:30:43 AM
Yeah I'm never particularly comfortable with referring to these attacks by a single person with a history of violence and serious mental health and addiction issues as terrorism. It always seems to slightly glamourise it to me. I'm not saying you need a grand network and a mastermind behind it all. But it feels like you should need more than this in a weird way. I always feel these cases should be treated more like school shootings than terrorism.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on June 23, 2020, 10:33:19 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 23, 2020, 10:30:43 AM
Yeah I'm never particularly comfortable with referring to these attacks by a single person with a history of violence and serious mental health and addiction issues as terrorism. It always seems to slightly glamourise it to me. I'm not saying you need a grand network and a mastermind behind it all. But it feels like you should need more than this in a weird way. I always feel these cases should be treated more like school shootings than terrorism.

It would be if they were white. :contract:


On the other hand, its a hard border to establish, because if the insane person's reasoning is religious, i.e. that it is ok and indeed beneficial for him afterlife-wise to kill people not of his religion, then it is kind of terrorism.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on June 23, 2020, 02:31:49 PM
What distinguishes terrorism from other kinds of violence, IMO, is:
1.  The victims of the terrorist act are not the targets of the act, and
2. There is a political motive (whether normal politics, religious politics, gang politics, etc).

Random violent people suffering from religious delusions are not terrorists, they are just random violent people suffering from religious delusions.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 23, 2020, 02:42:41 PM
Yeah and this guy's had, I believe, 10 convictions in the past 5 years including for assault, racially aggravated crimes and knife crimes (from what I've read I think he even assaulted a judge in a hearing at one point). Given all of that, I'm not sure he should have been on the streets and he was literally homeless. He also has serious mental health issues including PTSD, but also has addiction problems.

He's been sectioned now - which is not normal in terrorist incidents - and I think he probably should have been in some form of mental health institution a long time ago :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 25, 2020, 06:47:21 AM
Knife attack in Paris near the former Charlie Hebdo office. In time before the second wave/lockdown?  :hmm:

https://www.france24.com/en/20200925-four-injured-in-knife-attack-outside-charlie-hebdo-s-former-office-in-paris-suspects-at-large (https://www.france24.com/en/20200925-four-injured-in-knife-attack-outside-charlie-hebdo-s-former-office-in-paris-suspects-at-large)

QuoteSuspect arrested after knife attack outside Charlie Hebdo's former office in Paris

Issued on: 25/09/2020 - 12:53


At least two people were wounded in a knife attack Friday near the former offices of the satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo in Paris, police said Friday. A suspect has been arrested.


Two victims were in a critical condition, the Paris police department said.

Police said one suspect had been detained after the attack, which occurred as the trial was underway for the alleged accomplices of the 2015 Charlie Hebdo attack.

A Paris police official said that while authorities initially thought two attackers were involved, they now believe it was only one person, who was detained near the Place de la Bastille in eastern Paris.

Police initially announced that four people were wounded in the attack, but the official told The Associated Press that there are in fact only two confirmed wounded. Police could not explain the discrepancies.

"A serious event has taken place in Paris," said Prime Minister Jean Castex, who was addressing reporters when the attack occured and cut short a visit to northern Paris to head instead to the crisis centre of the interior ministry.

"Four people have been wounded and it seems that two are in a serious condition," he said at that time.

The prime minister added the attack had taken place "in front of" the weekly's former offices in the 11th district of central Paris. The magazine's current address is kept secret for security reasons.

Intervention de police en cours secteur Richard Lenoir à #Paris11.
Évitez le secteur.

— Préfecture de Police (@prefpolice) September 25, 2020
The stabbing came as a trial was underway in the capital for alleged accomplices of the authors of the January 2015 attack on Charlie Hebdo.

Twelve people, including some of France's most celebrated cartoonists, were killed in the attack by brothers Said and Cherif Kouachi and claimed by a branch of Al Qaeda.

A female police officer was killed a day later, followed the next day by the killing of four men in a hostage-taking at a Jewish supermarket by gunman Amedy Coulibaly.

The 14 defendants stand accused of having aided and abetted the perpetrators of the 2015 attacks, who were themselves killed in the wake of the massacres.

The magazine, defiant as ever, had marked the start of the trial by republishing hugely controversial cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed that had angered Muslims around the world.

Al-Qaeda then threatened Charlie Hebdo with a repeat of the 2015 massacre of its staff.

The trial in Paris had resumed Friday after a suspect's coronavirus test came back negative.

The hearing for the fourteen suspects, which opened on September 2, was postponed Thursday after Nezar Mickael Pastor Alwatik fell ill in the stand.

His lawyer Marie Dose said her client had suffered from "a lot of fever, coughing, vomiting and headaches".

He was back in the box on Friday, after the presiding judge informed defence and prosecution lawyers by SMS late Thursday that the test results allowed for the trial to go ahead.

(FRANCE 24 with AFP and AP)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 26, 2020, 04:18:52 AM
probably nothing to do at all with the religion of peace and tolerace. just like those women who apparently received a beating in Mulhouse and Strassbourg because their skirts were too short.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 26, 2020, 06:23:38 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on September 26, 2020, 04:18:52 AM
probably nothing to do at all with the religion of peace and tolerace. just like those women who apparently received a beating in Mulhouse and Strassbourg because their skirts were too short.
:D

™Religion of ETERNAL peace™ as per Charlie Hebdo   :contract:
More lax law enforcement and immigration at the cause.

More info on the background of the perpetrator
https://www.france24.com/en/20200926-suspect-in-paris-knife-attack-was-unkown-for-radicalisation (https://www.france24.com/en/20200926-suspect-in-paris-knife-attack-was-unkown-for-radicalisation)

QuoteSuspect in Paris knife attack was not on police radar

Issued on: 26/09/2020 - 09:51

Two people were injured in a knife attack outside satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo's former offices in Paris on September 25, 2020 © Gonzalo Fuentes, REUTERS


The primary suspect in Friday's knife attack outside the former Paris offices of satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo was not on police radar – despite a recent arrest for carrying a weapon.[/b][/size]


The suspected assailant was arrested in June, but had not been previously flagged for possible religious radicalisation, according to the interior ministry.

Interior Minister Gérald Darmanin said that the 18-year-old suspect arrived in France three years ago as an unaccompanied minor, apparently from Pakistan, but that his identity was still being verified.

Two people were wounded in the attack outside Charlie Hebdo's former offices, in Paris's eastern 11th arrondissement (district). The suspect, his face speckled with blood, was arrested by police on the steps of the Bastille Opera House, not far from the scene.

Witnesses described seeing the assailant striking the victims with a large meat cleaver, which was later found near the site of the attack. Sources have since confirmed that the main suspect has confessed to the stabbings.

"{He} takes responsibility for his action which he places in the context of the republication of cartoons" of the Prophet Mohammed in Charlie Hebdo, one of the sources said.

France's PNAT specialist anti-terror prosecution office said it has opened a probe into charges of "attempted murder related to a terrorist enterprise" as well as "conspiracy with terrorists".

Seven people including the main suspect were being held for questioning in connection with the attack, which Darmanin said was "clearly an act of Islamist terrorism".

"This is a new bloody attack on our country," Darmanin told France 2 television.

'Odious attack'

Prime Minister Jean Castex, visiting the scene, said the lives of the two victims "are not in danger, thank God".

The Premieres Lignes news production agency said the wounded were its employees – a man and a woman taking a cigarette break outside.

"They were both very badly wounded," the founder and co-head of Premieres Lignes, Paul Moreira, told AFP.

Another employee, who asked not to be named, said he heard screams.

"I went to the window and saw a colleague, bloodied, being chased by a man with a machete."

The company specialises in investigative reports and produces the prize-winning Cash Investigation programme.

In a Twitter post, Charlie Hebdo expressed its support for "the people affected by this odious attack".

They were victims of "fanaticism" and "intolerance", Charlie Hebdo said, calling the main suspect and his possible accomplice "terrorists".

'Underestimated the threat'

The stabbing came three weeks into the trial of suspected accomplices in the 2015 massacre of Charlie Hebdo's staff, which was claimed by a branch of al Qaeda.

The newspaper has angered many Muslims around the world by publishing cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed over the years, and in a defiant gesture reprinted some of the caricatures ahead of the trial.

Twelve people, including some of France's most celebrated cartoonists, were killed in the attack on Charlie Hebdo by brothers Said and Cherif Kouachi, on January 7, 2015.         

A female police officer was killed a day later, followed the next day by the killing of four men in a hostage-taking at a Jewish supermarket by gunman Amedy Coulibaly.

The trial has reopened one of the most painful chapters in France's modern history, with harrowing testimony from survivors and relatives of those who died.

The magazine received fresh threats from al Qaeda this month after it republished the controversial cartoons.

More than 100 French news outlets on Wednesday called for continuing support for Charlie Hebdo against what they described as the "enemies of freedom".

Just this week, police relocated the paper's head of human resources, Marika Bret, from her home following death threats.

Darmanin said he had asked the Paris police chief "why we underestimated the threat" in the street next to Charlie Hebdo's former offices.

The co-head of Premieres Lignes, Luc Hermann, told BFMTV that since the start of the trial "there has been absolutely no security for this street and symbolic building".

(FRANCE 24 with AFP, AP)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 26, 2020, 09:15:13 AM
Je suis Charlie.  :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 29, 2020, 11:32:46 AM
More info about the perpetrator:

QuoteParis knife attack suspect wanted to set Charlie Hebdo offices on fire


A man who injured two people in a knife attack outside the former offices of Charlie Hebdo in Paris last week admitted that he wanted to set its offices on fire, the lead prosecutor in the case said Tuesday. The suspect also said he lied to police about his age, later confessed to being 25 years old.


Prosecutor Jean-François Ricard told a news conference the suspect carried three bottles of the flammable paint thinner White Spirit, which he was going to use to set Charlie Hebdo's former offices on fire in an act of revenge against the satirical newspaper, which republished cartoons picturing the Prophet Mohammed on September 2.

Ricard also said the man had operated under a false identity and that a photo of his passport on his phone showed that he was 25 years old, not 18 as he first said. 

The assailant in the attack, which the French government has called an act of "Islamist terrorism", had originally identified himself as Hassan A., an 18-year-old born in the Pakistani town of Mandi Bahauddin.

He entered France in 2018 under a false identity that gave him access to social security aid for minors, Ricard told a news conference.

After Friday's attack, investigators became suspicious about his claims when they found a photo of an identity document on his phone that appeared to suggest his name was Zaheer Hassan Mehmood, age 25.

"He eventually admitted that this was his true identity and that he was 25 years old," Ricard said.


It was under that identity that he appeared in a video filmed before the attack in which he said he was avenging the publication of caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed by the satirical weekly Charlie Hebdo.

The magazine was the scene of a massacre by Islamist gunmen in January 2015, and the trial of 14 alleged accomplices in that attack is currently under way in Paris.

The attacker seriously injured two employees of a TV production agency, whose offices are on the same block that used to house Charlie Hebdo. They are now in stable condition, officials said.

He told investigators he thought he was targeting employees of Charlie Hebdo but did not realise the weekly had since moved to a new location that is kept secret because of security risks.

Ricard said the attacker had never attracted the attention of any government intelligence agency before Friday's assault.

(FRANCE 24 with REUTERS, AFP)

https://www.france24.com/en/20200929-paris-knife-attack-suspect-wanted-to-set-former-charlie-hebdo-offices-on-fire (https://www.france24.com/en/20200929-paris-knife-attack-suspect-wanted-to-set-former-charlie-hebdo-offices-on-fire)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on September 29, 2020, 01:59:33 PM
Is it legal to lie to the police about your identity?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tonitrus on September 29, 2020, 02:06:05 PM
They lie about theirs often enough...fair is fair.  :P

But in all seriousness...probably.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 30, 2020, 01:15:40 AM
No, specially when trying to immigrate and claiming welfare.
The age element is important since he came as a so-called "isolated minor" status which gave him legal residence and protection.
That status is notoriously being used and abused by illegal migrants, as in this extreme but not uncommon instance.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on September 30, 2020, 05:56:10 AM
Sure. It happens. But what's the point about it?
It's well known that people do this. It's less well known but also fact that governments do a lot of work to try and ascertain the truth. Alas checking someone's age biologically is not an exact science.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on September 30, 2020, 06:32:29 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 30, 2020, 05:56:10 AM
Sure. It happens. But what's the point about it?
It's well known that people do this. It's less well known but also fact that governments do a lot of work to try and ascertain the truth. Alas checking someone's age biologically is not an exact science.

Bone tests would have been enough for this case, he is 25 now, not 18 or so, take or leave a couple of months.



Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 16, 2020, 05:20:21 PM
religion of peace strikes again: teacher beheaded in paris

https://www.tijd.be/dossier/europareeks/leerkracht-onthoofd-nabij-parijs-islamitische-terreuraanslag/10258541.html (in dutch, but that's not an issue with google translate).

who the hell let those barbarians in?

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 17, 2020, 05:05:16 AM
French media article in English about yesterday's latest ™ Religion of Eternal Peace™ terrorist attack.
One last jihad before curfew...

https://www.france24.com/en/france/20201017-nine-people-detained-over-beheading-of-french-teacher-in-paris-suburb (https://www.france24.com/en/france/20201017-nine-people-detained-over-beheading-of-french-teacher-in-paris-suburb)

History, geography and Civic Education teacher was previously threatened on internet videos by angry Maghrebi parents due to a class about freedom of speech where Mahomet cartoons were discussed, though not necessarily shown. Article is not quite clear about the matter.

QuoteNine people have been arrested over the beheading of a French school teacher in a Paris suburb on Friday. The suspect, shot dead by police shortly after the attack, was an 18-year-old Chechen, according to an AFP source.

The man suspected of beheading the teacher who showed his students cartoons of the prophet Mohammed was an 18-year-old Moscow-born Chechen, a source told AFP on Saturday, in an act the President Emmanuel Macron described as an "Islamist terror attack".


Nine people were detained on Friday over the murder, including the parents of a child at the school where the teacher was working, said the source, who asked not to be named.

According to the source, the two detained parents had signalled their disagreement with the teacher's decision to show the cartoons. Others detained for questioning are members of the suspect's social circle but not family members.

The assailant was shot by police and later died of his injuries.

The teacher had recently discussed caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed in class, according to police and media sources.

France's anti-terror prosecutor said it was investigating the attack, which took place in Conflans-Sainte-Honorine, a suburb north-west of Paris, at around 5:00 pm (1500 GMT) on Friday.

Macron headed to the scene following an emergency meeting at the French interior ministry.

Decrying an "Islamist terrorist attack", the French president said the whole country stood united behind its teachers.

"A citizen has been murdered today because he was a teacher and because he taught freedom of expression," Macron said near the school where the teacher was killed.

"Terrorists will not divide France, obscurantism will not prevail," Macron added.

In a tweet, the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo expressed its "sense of horror and revolt" at Friday's attack


Secularism class

Police said witnesses had heard the attacker shout "Allahu Akbar", or "God is Great".

The grisly murder was an attack on the French nation as a whole, Education Minister Jean-Michel Blanquer said on Twitter.

"Our unity and our resolve are the only responses faced with the monstrosity of Islamist terrorism," the minister wrote.

Reporting from the scene of the attack, FRANCE 24's Julia Kim said the teacher had recently given a class on secularism and the controversy surrounding the publication of cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed by satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo.

The teacher reportedly "asked his Muslim students to leave the room because he was going to show some cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed that could have caused offence," Kim said, adding that this had angered some parents.

"According to my son, he was super nice, super friendly, super kind," the parent, Nordine Chaouadi, told AFP. The teacher "simply said to the Muslim children: 'Leave, I don't want it to hurt your feelings.' That's what my son told me," the parent said.

Shadow of Charlie Hebdo killings

Last month, a 25-year old Pakistani man attacked two people with a meat cleaver over the Charlie Hebdo cartoons, which are considered by Muslims to be blasphemous.

The attacker seriously injured two employees of a TV production agency, whose offices are on the same block that used to house the satirical weekly. Both survived.

That attack came three weeks into an ongoing trial of suspected accomplices of the authors of the January 2015 attacks on Charlie Hebdo and a Jewish supermarket, which also saw a policewoman gunned down in the street.

Seventeen people were killed in the three-day spree that heralded a wave of Islamist violence in France that has so far claimed more than 250 lives.

Al Qaeda, the militant Islamist group that claimed responsibility for the 2015 attack, threatened to attack Charlie Hebdo again after it republished the cartoons at the start of the trial.

The magazine said last month it published the cartoons to assert its right to freedom of expression, and to show it would not be cowed into silence by violent attacks. That stance was backed by many prominent French politicians and public figures.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on October 17, 2020, 08:49:49 AM
Actually, the article is quite clear that the cartoons were shown.

I'm still baffled by the murderous rage we see in some people over cartoons.  It's not like the prohibition against showing the images of humans was a commandment from the Quran; it's merely a recommendation by religious leaders in the years after Mohammed to avoid even the suspicion of idolatry, and it's not binding on non-Muslims.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 17, 2020, 08:55:18 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 17, 2020, 08:49:49 AM
Actually, the article is quite clear that the cartoons were shown.

Earlier reports were not so clear.
I meant the teacher did not show them to all pupils, by saying those who could be offended could leave.

PS: The now dead suspect was a refugee...
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on October 17, 2020, 09:25:25 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 16, 2020, 05:20:21 PM
who the hell let those barbarians in?
Russia.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on October 17, 2020, 09:37:24 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 17, 2020, 09:25:25 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 16, 2020, 05:20:21 PM
who the hell let those barbarians in?
Russia.

Blame the Romans.  They let in the ancestors of those whining about "who the hell let those barbarians in."

It is an old complaint.  Only the complainers change.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tonitrus on October 18, 2020, 01:53:45 AM
Especially all those Christians...they're the ones that really killed Rome.  :P
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on October 18, 2020, 06:47:01 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 17, 2020, 09:37:24 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 17, 2020, 09:25:25 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 16, 2020, 05:20:21 PM
who the hell let those barbarians in?
Russia.

Blame the Romans.  They let in the ancestors of those whining about "who the hell let those barbarians in."

It is an old complaint.  Only the complainers change.

On the other hand, I do think the history of the perpetrator and the family members arrested with him can legit play a factor in how I judge this crime. He and his family were offered shelter by France from persecution in Russia. Beheading somebody for ideological reason is terrible no matter the wider context, but killing a member of the society for a cultural difference, which had no obligation to take you in but did so anyway, makes it especially hideous in my view.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on October 18, 2020, 11:34:54 AM
The unfortunate things about these terrorist acts is that they're probably going to be successful.  I'm sure there are going to be at least some teachers now self-censoring themselves, not wanting to become involving in the next murder-suicide.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on October 18, 2020, 12:04:41 PM
Many Swedes think that anyone who gets involved with these kinds of cartoons get what they deserve. If you're lucky you get a "It's horrible that people are killed over cartoons..." before the "BUT...". Few people in Sweden think that freedom of expression is important. The idea of a Swedish teacher showing the cartoons in class... of course I could be wrong, but my impression is that in Sweden that would be completely beyond the pale.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on October 18, 2020, 12:37:53 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 18, 2020, 12:04:41 PM
Many Swedes think that anyone who gets involved with these kinds of cartoons get what they deserve. If you're lucky you get a "It's horrible that people are killed over cartoons..." before the "BUT...". Few people in Sweden think that freedom of expression is important. The idea of a Swedish teacher showing the cartoons in class... of course I could be wrong, but my impression is that in Sweden that would be completely beyond the pale.
:( It's hard to have freedom of speech and freedom from offense at the same time.  Either as a legal protection or as a mindset.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 18, 2020, 01:29:18 PM
A big part of the problem is not so much the cartoons themselves but the way people who absolutely don't believe in free speech have seized on them as a stick to bash Muslims with. The whole draw Muhammed day thing and all the trolling designed just to wind Muslims up. This angle on things is really keeping this issue alive and ensuring hate constantly begets hate.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 18, 2020, 01:49:46 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 18, 2020, 01:29:18 PM
A big part of the problem is not so much the cartoons themselves but the way people who absolutely don't believe in free speech have seized on them as a stick to bash Muslims with. The whole draw Muhammed day thing and all the trolling designed just to wind Muslims up. This angle on things is really keeping this issue alive and ensuring hate constantly begets hate.

I don't see the difference between the two, except for the motive you imputed.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on October 18, 2020, 06:17:32 PM
Quote from: Tamas on October 18, 2020, 06:47:01 AM
On the other hand, I do think the history of the perpetrator and the family members arrested with him can legit play a factor in how I judge this crime. He and his family were offered shelter by France from persecution in Russia. Beheading somebody for ideological reason is terrible no matter the wider context, but killing a member of the society for a cultural difference, which had no obligation to take you in but did so anyway, makes it especially hideous in my view.

I, on the other hand, think that slicing a man's throat open for "offending" a long-dead person who never said anything about being offended by this is a hideous thing to do even if you grew up in the same country as the man. 
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2020, 07:35:55 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 18, 2020, 11:34:54 AM
The unfortunate things about these terrorist acts is that they're probably going to be successful.  I'm sure there are going to be at least some teachers now self-censoring themselves, not wanting to become involving in the next murder-suicide.

I don't think so. Disrespecting Islam to troll the over-sensitive is practically a sport now thanks to all this nonsense. Any Muslims who think this is how one garners respect is going to be greatly disappointed in the long run. Especially as more and more young Muslims apostasize.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on October 18, 2020, 07:39:37 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 18, 2020, 01:29:18 PM
A big part of the problem is not so much the cartoons themselves but the way people who absolutely don't believe in free speech have seized on them as a stick to bash Muslims with. The whole draw Muhammed day thing and all the trolling designed just to wind Muslims up. This angle on things is really keeping this issue alive and ensuring hate constantly begets hate.

Critisizing Islam is just as acceptable as criticizing any idea.  I agree attacks on Muslims is unacceptable but drawing Mohammed isn't that. But even so, look at all people you bash on a regular. Is that an unacceptable use of your freedom of speech? I don't think so. Bash away.

I love Muslims but they need to tolerate people criticizing their ideas. I think the majority do, and we shouldn't let conservative fanatics dominate the narrative.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on October 19, 2020, 02:43:12 AM
A problem is that for the person involved the number of people who cut your throat has to be zero. If it's more than zero it doesn't make much difference if it's a tiny minority or not.

I'm sure most Irish don't support terrorism, but still every discussion about Northern Ireland and the border seems to take for granted that it's important not to offend the feelings of the terrorists. It is in the nature of terrorism that it has an impact much greater than the small number of terrorists would suggest.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 19, 2020, 02:55:39 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 18, 2020, 07:39:37 PMCritisizing Islam is just as acceptable as criticizing any idea.  I agree attacks on Muslims is unacceptable but drawing Mohammed isn't that. But even so, look at all people you bash on a regular. Is that an unacceptable use of your freedom of speech? I don't think so. Bash away.
I query why that needs to happen in schools. I think the rules for free speech are different for a teacher (in school) and a satirical magazine. We restrict acceptable speech in schools in all sorts of ways - and that's right.

Obviously that's no excuse for what happened.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on October 19, 2020, 03:15:39 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 19, 2020, 02:43:12 AM
A problem is that for the person involved the number of people who cut your throat has to be zero. If it's more than zero it doesn't make much difference if it's a tiny minority or not.

I'm sure most Irish don't support terrorism, but still every discussion about Northern Ireland and the border seems to take for granted that it's important not to offend the feelings of the terrorists. It is in the nature of terrorism that it has an impact much greater than the small number of terrorists would suggest.

Thinking a bit more on this... The Irish are strongly associated with terrorism, but that doesn't hurt individual Irish that much because they are associated with a lot of other stuff as well. Nice beer, nice music, weird writers... I think that the relationship between Muslims (as a group) and the West would be greatly improved by the appearance of U2s and similar from the Muslim world (or Riverdances or whatever, the point is main stream impact in the West). PBS documentaries about the rich history of the Muslim world won't achieve this (but I think they serve a purpose), you need active main stream cultural impact. Muslim acts/authors etc from within the West I think are not as helpful in this context, because they may be viewed by people as a cultural hybrid and not being from or of the "real" Muslim world.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 19, 2020, 03:18:55 AM
QuoteThinking a bit more on this... The Irish are strongly associated with terrorism, but that doesn't hurt individual Irish that much because they are associated with a lot of other stuff as well.

Now yes. 20 years ago... Less so. In the 20th century there was a hell of a lot of "theres an Irishman next door? Better make sure he blows nothing up. Lolz".

Lest we forget too the key reason so many Muslims were brought over to the UK (and I assume to some extent Germany and some others) is back in the post war era Muslims were seen as the nice, peaceful, hard working side of Asians. Not like those shifty pagan Hindus.

Agreed more broadly that more positive exposure to the "other side" is key. Which ties into the more general problems with inequality in the UK and France.
Quote from: Valmy on October 18, 2020, 07:39:37 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 18, 2020, 01:29:18 PM
A big part of the problem is not so much the cartoons themselves but the way people who absolutely don't believe in free speech have seized on them as a stick to bash Muslims with. The whole draw Muhammed day thing and all the trolling designed just to wind Muslims up. This angle on things is really keeping this issue alive and ensuring hate constantly begets hate.

Critisizing Islam is just as acceptable as criticizing any idea.  I agree attacks on Muslims is unacceptable but drawing Mohammed isn't that. But even so, look at all people you bash on a regular. Is that an unacceptable use of your freedom of speech? I don't think so. Bash away.

I love Muslims but they need to tolerate people criticizing their ideas. I think the majority do, and we shouldn't let conservative fanatics dominate the narrative.

There's criticism, then there's trolling.
Big difference between "I disagree with Islam's teaching on x" and saying something which serves no purpose (not even comedy) than trying to piss Muslims (or indeed anyone else) off and incite violence.
The white far right and Islamic far right are parasites. They're in a loop of feeding each other. They both want a religious/ethnic war and are keen to see the other commit as many vile acts as possible to get this.
The white far right want us to take away from shit like this "Fuck Islam. Hurray free speech*"  (*only if it agrees with our free speech) . What we should be taking is "let's find a way to cut down on people being paranoid arse holes about other ethnicities"
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 19, 2020, 03:28:21 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 03:18:55 AM
There's criticism, then there's trolling.
Big difference between "I disagree with Islam's teaching on x" and saying something which serves no purpose (not even comedy) than trying to piss Muslims (or indeed anyone else) off and incite violence.

These then would be trolling, correct?

https://www.google.com/search?q=muhammad+cartoons+in+jyllands+posten+2005&client=firefox-b-1-d&sxsrf=ALeKk029ETHK-pL4766gC0jmQU_8S-_b8Q:1603095980339&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=_97i8EVrQ_MatM%252Cv13w8wVuJ2JsoM%252C%252Fm%252F0b4101&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kRV5Md1Ge055x4EBF7dbgdZU-1_uw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjOnMvzncDsAhWDU80KHRwKBBUQ_B16BAgVEAM#imgrc=_97i8EVrQ_MatM

And these?

https://www.google.com/search?q=charlie+hebdo+cartoons&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwicgZn8ncDsAhVqjK0KHXtfCtkQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=char&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQARgAMgoIABCxAxCDARBDMgQIABBDMgQIABBDMgQIABBDMgQIABBDMgUIABCxAzIECAAQQzIECAAQQzIFCAAQsQMyBQgAELEDOgQIIxAnOgIIAFDmsgRYhLcEYMDJBGgAcAB4AIABXYgB2AKSAQE0mAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=vk2NX5yqF-qYtgX7vqnIDQ&client=firefox-b-1-d
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 19, 2020, 03:35:43 AM
No idea. I've never read Charlie hebdo and no idea what the others are.
From when I gather CH is a satirical magazine like Private Eye.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on October 19, 2020, 03:37:05 AM
It's a 9 min video from 2012, I don't expect people to watch it, but if anyone's interested I think that this speech by Rowan Atkinson sums up a lot of my general thoughts concerning freedom of expression. It was given in the context of a discussion about UK law, but most of the speech consists of general points valid beyond the UK and beyond law.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiqDZlAZygU
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 19, 2020, 07:36:21 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 18, 2020, 01:29:18 PM
A big part of the problem is not so much the cartoons themselves but the way people who absolutely don't believe in free speech have seized on them as a stick to bash Muslims with. The whole draw Muhammed day thing and all the trolling designed just to wind Muslims up. This angle on things is really keeping this issue alive and ensuring hate constantly begets hate.

Have you joined the infamous "But brigade" or what?
Irrelevant nearly all the time, specially irrelevant actually now. Cartoons were reprinted by Charlie Hebdo, a satirical leftist weekly, and the murdered teacher was using the cartoons on a class about freedom of speech, not forcing anyone to watch them.
The teacher was the one bashed online by a notorious islamist, Abdelhakim Sefrioui, plus an islamist concerned parent calling him, among other epithets, a thug (voyou).
Said islamist concerned parent has of one of his half-sisters who went to Syria to join Daesh and is the target of search warrant by an anti-terrorist judge, according to Mr Ricard, national anti-terrorist attorney.

French media such as Le Figaro gave more info about the perpetrator:
He already several arrests as a minor by the police yet was given refugee status for 10 years, in March of this year.

He also paid (hundred euros or so) pupils of junior high school (collège) to designate the teacher, as part of his reconnaissance work before the attack since he was not from the region (Île-de-France), and was registered as living in Évreux (Normandie). Not too far from the area though.
Yet he was also member of an Eragny gang, including islamist in an anti-terrorist watchlist (fiche S in French).
Eragny is nearby Conflans-Sainte-Honorine.

Ten people under arrest right now, including the parents, grandfather and brother of the perpetrator, plus the islamist preacher Abdelhakim Sefrioui, founder of the pro-Hamas Cheikh Yassin collective, also infamous for organizing demonstrations during months in front of Hassen Chalgoumi's mosque in Drancy. The latter imam is deemed "pro-jewish" by islamists for inter-faith dialogue and tolerance with Jews...

https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/un-professeur-d-histoire-decapite-pres-de-paris-le-parquet-antiterroriste-saisi-20201016 (https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/un-professeur-d-histoire-decapite-pres-de-paris-le-parquet-antiterroriste-saisi-20201016)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on October 19, 2020, 08:03:33 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 19, 2020, 07:36:21 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 18, 2020, 01:29:18 PM
A big part of the problem is not so much the cartoons themselves but the way people who absolutely don't believe in free speech have seized on them as a stick to bash Muslims with. The whole draw Muhammed day thing and all the trolling designed just to wind Muslims up. This angle on things is really keeping this issue alive and ensuring hate constantly begets hate.

Have you joined the infamous "But brigade" or what?
Irrelevant nearly all the time, specially irrelevant actually now. Cartoons were reprinted by Charlie Hebdo, a satirical leftist weekly, and the murdered teacher was using the cartoons on a class about freedom of speech, not forcing anyone to watch them.
The teacher was the one bashed online by a notorious islamist, Abdelhakim Sefrioui, plus an islamist concerned parent calling him, among other epithets, a thug (voyou).
Said islamist concerned parent has of his half-sisters who went to Syria to join Daesh and is the target of search warrant by an anti-terrorist judge, according to Mr Ricard national anti-terrorist attorney.

French media such as Le Figaro gave more info about the perpetrator:
He already several arrests as a minor by the police yet was given refugee status for 10 years, in March of this year.

He also paid (hundred euros or so) pupils of junior high school (collège) to designate the teacher, as part of his reconnaissance work before the attack since he was not from the region (Île-de-France), and was registered as living in Évreux (Normandie). Not too far from the area though.
Yet he was also member of an Eragny gang, including islamist in an anti-terrorist watchlist (fiche S in French).
Eragny is nearby Conflans-Sainte-Honorine.

Ten people under arrest right now, including the parents, grandfather and brother of the perpetrator, plus the islamist preacher Abdelhakim Sefrioui, founder of the pro-Hamas Cheikh Yassin collective, also infamous for organizing demonstrations during months in front of Hassen Chalgoumi's mosque in Drancy. The latter imam is deemed "pro-jewish" by islamists for inter-faith dialogue and tolerance with Jews...

https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/un-professeur-d-histoire-decapite-pres-de-paris-le-parquet-antiterroriste-saisi-20201016 (https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/un-professeur-d-histoire-decapite-pres-de-paris-le-parquet-antiterroriste-saisi-20201016)

Thanks for info Duque, but clearly these people were just being trolled into violence by intolerant people.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 19, 2020, 08:08:00 AM
Not understanding my being quoted in there duque. But brigade? :unsure:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 19, 2020, 09:32:54 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 08:08:00 AM
Not understanding my being quoted in there duque. But brigade? :unsure:

Rushdie reference. In a reference to a lecture given in January 2015 at the university of Vermont.
https://video.unctv.org/video/vermont-public-television-specials-salman-rushdie-vermont/ (https://video.unctv.org/video/vermont-public-television-specials-salman-rushdie-vermont/)

Around 55'30"
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 19, 2020, 10:57:18 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 19, 2020, 09:32:54 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 08:08:00 AM
Not understanding my being quoted in there duque. But brigade? :unsure:

Rushdie reference. In a reference to a lecture given in January 2015 at the university of Vermont.
https://video.unctv.org/video/vermont-public-television-specials-salman-rushdie-vermont/ (https://video.unctv.org/video/vermont-public-television-specials-salman-rushdie-vermont/)

Around 55'30"
Oh, then yes, very much part of this.
Words have power and they can be misused towards ends like this recent murder and far worse.
Trying to present it as a simple black and white pro free speech and against free speech is pretty naiive, especially in the 21st century.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 19, 2020, 11:02:31 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 10:57:18 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 19, 2020, 09:32:54 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 08:08:00 AM
Not understanding my being quoted in there duque. But brigade? :unsure:

Rushdie reference. In a reference to a lecture given in January 2015 at the university of Vermont.
https://video.unctv.org/video/vermont-public-television-specials-salman-rushdie-vermont/ (https://video.unctv.org/video/vermont-public-television-specials-salman-rushdie-vermont/)

Around 55'30"
Oh, then yes, very much part of this.
Words have power and they can be misused towards ends like this recent murder and far worse.
Trying to present it as a simple black and white pro free speech and against free speech is pretty naiive, especially in the 21st century.

So in theory you agree with Rushdie, yet in practice you are still part of the ™But-Brigade™.  :lol:

Quote"If you are a writer, it's kind of like if you're a composer, you would have an orchestra to compose for, and sometimes you write more for the strings and sometimes more for the keyboard, and you don't have to write for the same  thing every time you compose. In the same way when you're writing, you don't always write for the same part of the orchestra. And so satire is one of the tools and it's a very important one. And actually  in the history of France, it's been enormously important ever since the French Revolution. Some of the first really powerful satirical pieces in the French history were fuilleton, the sheet that was distributed in the street, attacking Marie Antoinette after she encouraged people to eat cake, which was very bad for their health. So there was a kind of early gluten-free satire at that time.

"The French satirical tradition has always been very pointed and very harsh. And still is, you know. And the thing that I really resent is the way in which these, our dead comrades, these people who died— using the same implement that I use, which is the pen or a pencil—have been almost immediately vilified and called racists and I don't know what else. Which is a dreadful crime against their memory.

"And I didn't know them well, but I met Stéphane Charbonnier, the editor of Charlie Hebdot—[a person]less racist than whom it would be hard to find. For starters, I mean, there might be other things wrong with him: He was a communist; he was a communist member of the far left in France and to describe him as a rightwinger is a bizarre description.

"But you know Charlie Hebdot attacked everything. It attacked Muslims, the pope, it attacked Israel and rabbis, it attacked black people and white people, and gay people and straight people. It attacked every kind of human being. It was what? It was making fun. Its strategy was to make fun of people. And it was seen as that. It was seen as that. It was very beloved. Its cartoons were very beloved in France. [Slain cartoonist] Wolinski, the  old gentleman of 87 years old, he was a grand old man of French culture.

"So anyway, the thing that I come to—I used this phrase on TV the other day— the rise of the 'but-brigade.' I got so sick of the goddamn but-brigade.  And now the moment somebody says 'Yes I believe in free speech, but,' I stop listening. 'I believe in free speech, but people should behave themselves.' 'I believe in free speech, but we shouldn't upset anybody.' 'I believe in free speech, but let's not go too far.'

"The point about it is, the moment you limit free speech, it's not free speech. The point about it is that it's free. Both John F. Kennedy and Nelson Mandela, in important speeches, used the same three-word phrase which to my mind says it all: "Freedom is indivisible." You can't slice it up. Otherwise it ceases to be freedom.

"And you can dislike Charlie Hebdo. You know, not all their drawings are funny. You can dislike, but the fact that you dislike them has got nothing to do with their right to speak. The fact that you dislike them certainly doesn't in any way excuse their murder. And the idea that  within days of this murder, sections of the left as well as the right have turned against these, these fallen artists to vilify them is, I think, disgraceful. The end."
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on October 19, 2020, 11:11:39 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 10:57:18 AM
Trying to present it as a simple black and white pro free speech and against free speech is pretty naiive, especially in the 21st century.

Murdering people is a morally gray act in your eyes?

What about persecuting apostates? Is that also something that would be naive to think is wrong?

How much persecution and violence towards people for thought crimes is acceptable in the 21st century?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 19, 2020, 11:34:02 AM
QuoteSo in theory you agree with Rushdie, yet in practice you are still part of the ™But-Brigade™.  :lol:
eh?

As to the quote, don't confuse natural freedom and civilized freedom. If I had complete natural freedom then I would be free to murder whoever I like. Civilization is built around controlling these freedoms for everyone's benefit.


Quote from: Valmy on October 19, 2020, 11:11:39 AM

Murdering people is a morally gray act in your eyes?

What about persecuting apostates? Is that also something that would be naive to think is wrong?
No?
I said nothing like this?

Quote
How much persecution and violence towards people for thought crimes is acceptable in the 21st century?
Its not murder. Nobody would ever claim its remotely comparable. But prison sentences for hate preaching should definitely be an option.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on October 19, 2020, 11:42:05 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 11:34:02 AM
Its not murder. Nobody would ever claim its remotely comparable. But prison sentences for hate preaching should definitely be an option.

They could be. Depending on the definition of hate speech. Giving something for cultists and religious extremists to use to throw their critics into prison is not something I support. Hatred of people and criticizing ideas are not the same thing.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 19, 2020, 11:42:32 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 11:34:02 AM
QuoteSo in theory you agree with Rushdie, yet in practice you are still part of the ™But-Brigade™.  :lol:
eh?

As to the quote, don't confuse natural freedom and civilized freedom. If I had complete natural freedom then I would be free to murder whoever I like. Civilization is built around controlling these freedoms for everyone's benefit.


Apples and oranges sophistry attempt. In this instance, you are drawing a parallel between publishing or showing cartoons for discussion in class on one hand, and murder and the other hand.



Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 19, 2020, 11:54:01 AM
QuoteApples and oranges sophistry attempt. In this instance, you are drawing a parallel between publishing or showing cartoons for discussion in class on one hand, and murder and the other hand.

Petty theft, kicking someone in the balls, driving on the wrong side of the road, hiding in a stranger's cupboard, etc....
The murder isn't necessary for the comparison.
Laws by their very nature take away freedom to give greater freedom.
If we can hold liable those who would use convincing arguments to demand people who create cartoon they don't like are killed then that's for the good of us all.

Quote from: Valmy
link=topic=14158.msg1270519#msg1270519 date=1603125725

Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 11:34:02 AM
Its not murder. Nobody would ever claim its remotely comparable. But prison sentences for hate preaching should definitely be an option.

They could be. Depending on the definition of hate speech. Giving something for cultists and religious extremists to use to throw their critics into prison is not something I support. Hatred of people and criticizing ideas are not the same thing.

So those people who have been arrested over this recent murder should be released?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on October 19, 2020, 12:00:01 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 11:54:01 AM
So those people who have been arrested over this recent murder should be released?

Depends. What was their involvement with the murders?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 19, 2020, 12:02:09 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 11:54:01 AM
QuoteApples and oranges sophistry attempt. In this instance, you are drawing a parallel between publishing or showing cartoons for discussion in class on one hand, and murder and the other hand.

Petty theft, kicking someone in the balls, driving on the wrong side of the road, hiding in a stranger's cupboard, etc....
The murder isn't necessary for the comparison.
Laws by their very nature take away freedom to give greater freedom.
If we can hold liable those who would use convincing arguments to demand people who create cartoon they don't like are killed then that's for the good of us all.


More and more apples and oranges.
If you disagree with Rushdie, fine, just don't pretend to agree with him.
You're just a ™But-brigade™ trooper invoking an irrelevant specious legal argument.

The murderer victim was was a History-Geography and civic education teacher who dealt with freedom of speech in class, discussing the cartoons, reprinted by Charlie Hebdo, a well-known leftist weekly, themselves staunch believers of freedom of speech; whose liberty to do so was precisely advocated by Rushdie.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 19, 2020, 12:10:56 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 19, 2020, 12:02:09 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 11:54:01 AM
QuoteApples and oranges sophistry attempt. In this instance, you are drawing a parallel between publishing or showing cartoons for discussion in class on one hand, and murder and the other hand.

Petty theft, kicking someone in the balls, driving on the wrong side of the road, hiding in a stranger's cupboard, etc....
The murder isn't necessary for the comparison.
Laws by their very nature take away freedom to give greater freedom.
If we can hold liable those who would use convincing arguments to demand people who create cartoon they don't like are killed then that's for the good of us all.


More and more apples and oranges.
If you disagree with Rushdie, fine, just don't pretend to agree with him.
You're just a ™But-brigade™ trooper invoking an irrelevant specious legal argument.

The murderer victim was was a History-Geography and civic education teacher who dealt with freedom of speech in class, discussing the cartoons, reprinted by Charlie Hebdo, a well-known leftist weekly, themselves staunch believers of freedom of speech; whose liberty to do so was precisely advocated by Rushdie.
I never said I agree with him?
I'm very much in the "but brigade". Only sith deal in absolutes and all that. Its a completely valid argument that absolute freedom is not freedom at all. Many far smarter folks than myself have examined this.

Don't forget that it is free speech behind those who said he should be murdered just as much as the reason they targeted him.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 19, 2020, 12:31:15 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 12:10:56 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 19, 2020, 12:02:09 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 11:54:01 AM
QuoteApples and oranges sophistry attempt. In this instance, you are drawing a parallel between publishing or showing cartoons for discussion in class on one hand, and murder and the other hand.

Petty theft, kicking someone in the balls, driving on the wrong side of the road, hiding in a stranger's cupboard, etc....
The murder isn't necessary for the comparison.
Laws by their very nature take away freedom to give greater freedom.
If we can hold liable those who would use convincing arguments to demand people who create cartoon they don't like are killed then that's for the good of us all.


More and more apples and oranges.
If you disagree with Rushdie, fine, just don't pretend to agree with him.
You're just a ™But-brigade™ trooper invoking an irrelevant specious legal argument.

The murderer victim was was a History-Geography and civic education teacher who dealt with freedom of speech in class, discussing the cartoons, reprinted by Charlie Hebdo, a well-known leftist weekly, themselves staunch believers of freedom of speech; whose liberty to do so was precisely advocated by Rushdie.
I never said I agree with him?
I'm very much in the "but brigade". Only sith deal in absolutes and all that. Its a completely valid argument that absolute freedom is not freedom at all. Many far smarter folks than myself have examined this.

Don't forget that it is free speech behind those who said he should be murdered just as much as the reason they targeted him.

I'm glad you could admit being a part of the ™But-Brigade™ since it was not exactly clear in the beginning with your ignorant references to nebulous far-right concepts, including "islamic far-right" (sic) while dealing with a satyrical leftist weekly publication.

Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 10:57:18 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 19, 2020, 09:32:54 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 08:08:00 AM
Not understanding my being quoted in there duque. But brigade? :unsure:

Rushdie reference. In a reference to a lecture given in January 2015 at the university of Vermont.
https://video.unctv.org/video/vermont-public-television-specials-salman-rushdie-vermont/ (https://video.unctv.org/video/vermont-public-television-specials-salman-rushdie-vermont/)

Around 55'30"
Oh, then yes, very much part of this.
Words have power and they can be misused towards ends like this recent murder and far worse.
Trying to present it as a simple black and white pro free speech and against free speech is pretty naiive, especially in the 21st century.

and

Quote from: Tyr on October 18, 2020, 01:29:18 PM
A big part of the problem is not so much the cartoons themselves but the way people who absolutely don't believe in free speech have seized on them as a stick to bash Muslims with. The whole draw Muhammed day thing and all the trolling designed just to wind Muslims up. This angle on things is really keeping this issue alive and ensuring hate constantly begets hate.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 19, 2020, 12:32:14 PM
I never said Charlie hebdo was far right.
I'm really confused at your point here. And said from the start you could clump me into the rational thinker brigade against silly absolutism.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 19, 2020, 12:36:15 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 12:32:14 PM
I never said Charlie hebdo was far right.
I'm really confused at your point here.

You implied it since in your extremely ignorant view of any loosely-defined criticism of islam can only come from a very loosely-defined far-right, then backtracked a bit when Yi and others showed you examples of their publications.
Not to mention the murdered teacher...

Quote from: Tyr on October 18, 2020, 01:29:18 PM
A big part of the problem is not so much the cartoons themselves but the way people who absolutely don't believe in free speech have seized on them as a stick to bash Muslims with. The whole draw Muhammed day thing and all the trolling designed just to wind Muslims up. This angle on things is really keeping this issue alive and ensuring hate constantly begets hate.

Chillax, you are now a proud member of the ™But-Brigade™ so the discussion is over. Move on.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 19, 2020, 12:39:00 PM
:blink:
You may need to improve your English a spot.
I specifically said the cartoons weren't the problem, it was those who don't believe in free speech who seek to use them for their own needs.

And sure. The side of nuance and giving things thought rather than just tarring everything with the same brush is the parochial one :lol:

I haven't back tracked one jot here. I hold to what I say. Its a lot more complicated than free speech against the baddies who want to control speech.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 19, 2020, 12:45:02 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 12:39:00 PM
:blink:
You may need to improve your English a spot.
I specifically said the cartoons weren't the problem, it was those who don't believe in free speech who seek to use them for their own needs.

And sure. The side of nuance and giving things thought rather than just tatting everything with the same brush is the parochial one :lol:

We are talking about a murdered teacher you ignorant parochial Little Englander islamist-collabo.

As for the language remark, given your troubles with RP, I'd suggest you don't lecture polyglot speakers.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 19, 2020, 12:49:21 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 19, 2020, 12:45:02 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 12:39:00 PM
:blink:
You may need to improve your English a spot.
I specifically said the cartoons weren't the problem, it was those who don't believe in free speech who seek to use them for their own needs.

And sure. The side of nuance and giving things thought rather than just tatting everything with the same brush is the parochial one :lol:

We are talking about a murderer teacher you ignorant parochial Little Englander islamist-collabo.

As for the language remark, given your troubles with RP, I'd suggest you don't lecture polyglot speakers.

:lmfao:
Two minutes hate is done.
We moved onto discussing the broader issues around it.
Sorry but the world isn't neatly divided into the glorious defenders of freedom and the evil Islamic murderer lovers. It is actually possible to have an opinion other than kill all Muslims without being an "islamist collabo"

(incidentally yours is the little englander view)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on October 19, 2020, 12:52:22 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 19, 2020, 12:45:02 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 12:39:00 PM
:blink:
You may need to improve your English a spot.
I specifically said the cartoons weren't the problem, it was those who don't believe in free speech who seek to use them for their own needs.

And sure. The side of nuance and giving things thought rather than just tatting everything with the same brush is the parochial one :lol:

We are talking about a murderer teacher you ignorant parochial Little Englander islamist-collabo.

As for the language remark, given your troubles with RP, I'd suggest you don't lecture polyglot speakers.


So Donald, you worried about the polls?  Biden is pretty strong in Pennsylvania.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 19, 2020, 12:56:56 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 12:49:21 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 19, 2020, 12:45:02 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 12:39:00 PM
:blink:
You may need to improve your English a spot.
I specifically said the cartoons weren't the problem, it was those who don't believe in free speech who seek to use them for their own needs.

And sure. The side of nuance and giving things thought rather than just tatting everything with the same brush is the parochial one :lol:

We are talking about a murderer teacher you ignorant parochial Little Englander islamist-collabo.

As for the language remark, given your troubles with RP, I'd suggest you don't lecture polyglot speakers.

:lmfao:
Two minutes hate is done.
We moved onto discussing the broader issues around it.
Sorry but the world isn't neatly divided into the glorious defenders of freedom and the evil Islamic murderer lovers. It is actually possible to have an opinion other than kill all Muslims without being an "islamist collabo"

(incidentally yours is the little englander view)

I am as islamist as little englander, you anti-French bigot chav. Seems you actually need to improve your English a spot (Trump-like projecting on somebody who disagrees with you) , not just RP, since I never said anything about killing all muslims. I mentioned islamists, but then you would have to know how to read and understand the difference between those terms.

Collabos come in many kinds. ;)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 19, 2020, 01:02:33 PM
If your reaction to an Islamist killing a school teacher over cartoons is to bemoan far right white supremacists, you give off the impression of being an apologist, just a tad. Their suckitude isn't always relevant.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 19, 2020, 01:04:36 PM
Your view does more to help Islamists than mine :contract:
Encouraging your view is exactly their mission in conducting terror attacks.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on October 19, 2020, 01:08:42 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 01:04:36 PM
Your view does more to help Islamists than mine :contract:
Encouraging your view is exactly their mission in conducting terror attacks.

I don't think the terrorist attacks have much to do with us. They are about controlling other Muslims.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 19, 2020, 01:09:38 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 19, 2020, 01:02:33 PM
If your reaction to an Islamist killing a school teacher over cartoons is to bemoan far right white supremacists, you give off the impression of being an apologist, just a tad. Their suckitude isn't always relevant.

such reactions fit in nicely with the department of salami tactics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_tactics
It's like using 'islamophobia': a term who's only raison d'être is to silence any and all opposition to islam.

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 19, 2020, 01:26:58 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 19, 2020, 01:09:38 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 19, 2020, 01:02:33 PM
If your reaction to an Islamist killing a school teacher over cartoons is to bemoan far right white supremacists, you give off the impression of being an apologist, just a tad. Their suckitude isn't always relevant.

such reactions fit in nicely with the department of salami tactics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_tactics
It's like using 'islamophobia': a term who's only raison d'être is to silence any and all opposition to islam.

Or, you know, travel bans that make no sense.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 19, 2020, 01:57:05 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 11:34:02 AM
As to the quote, don't confuse natural freedom and civilized freedom. If I had complete natural freedom then I would be free to murder whoever I like. Civilization is built around controlling these freedoms for everyone's benefit.

I am not following your argument.  Liberal political theory, as formulated John Stuart Mill, would say that natural freedom is restricted when it causes harm to others.  Most of our modern legal tradition is built on that concept, including our concept of freedom of expression.  No one has the freedom to falsely yell "Fire" in a crowded theatre etc. 
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on October 19, 2020, 02:01:00 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 19, 2020, 01:09:38 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 19, 2020, 01:02:33 PM
If your reaction to an Islamist killing a school teacher over cartoons is to bemoan far right white supremacists, you give off the impression of being an apologist, just a tad. Their suckitude isn't always relevant.

such reactions fit in nicely with the department of salami tactics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_tactics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_tactics)
It's like using 'islamophobia': a term who's only raison d'être is to silence any and all opposition to islam.


Question: What term do you use to describe the motives of the Christchurch killer?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 19, 2020, 02:26:51 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 01:04:36 PM
Your view does more to help Islamists than mine :contract:
Encouraging your view is exactly their mission in conducting terror attacks.

My view is that you are deflecting the issue at hand.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 20, 2020, 03:07:48 AM
QuoteI am not following your argument.  Liberal political theory, as formulated John Stuart Mill, would say that natural freedom is restricted when it causes harm to others.  Most of our modern legal tradition is built on that concept, including our concept of freedom of expression.  No one has the freedom to falsely yell "Fire" in a crowded theatre etc.

That's exactly my argument, you followed it.  :bowler:
Duque however was arguing that this is not the case and that freedom of expression must be absolute with zero buts. That yelling fire in a crowded theatre is fine.

QuoteI don't think the terrorist attacks have much to do with us. They are about controlling other Muslims.

Its both. As said its a cycle of hate.
Its fairly chicken and egg and the true start is quite irrelevant, but I think looking at the timeline we can fairly say it was western actions in the middle east.
Out of this Islamic extremists then decided to fight back by attacking the west. They're not stupid, they know they won't beat the west with a bomb every few years. So they think a lot bigger picture; prick the west to encourage more Islamophobia and crack downs against Muslims in the west. This then leads to a situation where more young western Muslims feel oppressed and under attack and will sign up for radical Islam. Thus leading to more attacks and violence and racial strife thus more crackdowns against Islam.
They're all about edging the needle ever forwards, knowing the growth of far right views amongst the general population in the west will lead to growth of far right views amongst the muslim population, so on and so forth until it reaches tipping point where all the muslims of the world rally behind their banner and they get their battle of the civilizations that they're aiming for.
Incidentally the white far right also has this same ultimate goal. They want to spread their radicalization step by step with a dream of the day the nation wakes up and rallies behind their flag against 'the others'.
Its important not to give these groups what they both want or it just leads to more violence.

Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 19, 2020, 02:26:51 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 19, 2020, 01:04:36 PM
Your view does more to help Islamists than mine :contract:
Encouraging your view is exactly their mission in conducting terror attacks.

My view is that you are deflecting the issue at hand.
Nope.
The murderer did a bad thing.
I think we can all safely say this is accepted, its stupid to even attempt to have an argument here. Who would be that far gone into insanity as to assume somebody on here might be supportive of this?
So the discussion moved onto an area where it is possible to actually have a discussion, on the limits of free speech and how it is abused such as for instance in the lead up to this killing.
Whether free speech is absolute or there are nuances is exactly the matter at hand.


Quotesuch reactions fit in nicely with the department of salami tactics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salami_tactics
It's like using 'islamophobia': a term who's only raison d'être is to silence any and all opposition to islam.
I'm really bad at remembering the proper terminology. Whats this one called again? The old "You just call anyone who disagrees with you a nazi" thing?
Silencing all opposition to Islamophobia by insisting any insinuation of Islamophobia is invalid.

Also; quite the opposite of salami tactics actually. Clumping extremists of all colours together as one horrid stinky blob that normal people should stand against.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on October 20, 2020, 05:11:08 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 20, 2020, 03:07:48 AM
That's exactly my argument, you followed it.  :bowler:
Duque however was arguing that this is not the case and that freedom of expression must be absolute with zero buts. That yelling fire in a crowded theatre is fine.

Freedom of thought and opinion and yelling fire in a crowded theatre are not the same thing.

QuoteIts both. As said its a cycle of hate.

I don't agree. I think it is about religion and fanaticism. Especially when we are talking about Pakistanis getting angry about something some French person did. Why would Pakistanis otherwise hate the French?

QuoteIts fairly chicken and egg and the true start is quite irrelevant, but I think looking at the timeline we can fairly say it was western actions in the middle east.

Well I disagree. Rules against blasphemy and apostasy and their social enforcement by fanatics is not new. And even to the extent that Islamism is a reaction to the western imperialism, that was not always so. There are plenty of ways to respond, such as Pan-Arabism.

But I don't think this is a reaction to Western imperialism so much as these cultures being opened up to outside ideas that are changing their communities and causing a crisis in their religion. The internet age is rapidly speeding this process up. I talked about this a few years ago but the trends are really accelerating now.

QuoteOut of this Islamic extremists then decided to fight back by attacking the west. They're not stupid, they know they won't beat the west with a bomb every few years. So they think a lot bigger picture; prick the west to encourage more Islamophobia and crack downs against Muslims in the west. This then leads to a situation where more young western Muslims feel oppressed and under attack and will sign up for radical Islam. Thus leading to more attacks and violence and racial strife thus more crackdowns against Islam.

I would ask for statistics showing crackdowns in the west and young people becoming more Islamic in response. Now there will always be fanatics and young people are drawn to fanaticism. But is this, in fact, what young muslims are doing?

I bring the following data to your attention:

https://www.arabbarometer.org/media-news/young-arabs-are-changing-their-beliefs-and-perceptions-new-survey/

QuoteThe main findings were published by The Economist on 5 December 2019, showing that 'across the region the share of people expressing much trust in political parties, most of which have a religious tint, has fallen by well over a third since 2011, to 15 per cent. ... The doubts extend to religious leaders. In 2013, around 51 per cent of respondents said they trusted their religious leaders to a "great" or "medium" extent. When a comparable question was asked last year, the number was down to 40 per cent. ... The share of Arabs describing themselves as "not religious" is up to 13 per cent, from 8 per cent in 2013. That includes nearly half of young Tunisians, a third of young Libyans, a quarter of young Algerians and a fifth of young Egyptians.'

Interesting. This tells me Islamism is ultimately failing to do what it's real goal is and react against the encroachment of new ideas into the Muslim world. As a reactionary force it is starting to fumble.

This survey was particularly incredible:

https://iranintl.com/en/iran/iranians-have-lost-their-faith-according-survey

QuoteAccording to the results, 78% of Iranians believe in God, but only 26% of them believe in "the coming of the Messiah (Imam Mahdi)", which is one of the main beliefs of the Twelver Shiites.

While only 32% of Iranians consider themselves Shia Muslims, 9% have claimed to be atheists and 22% do not align with any religion. Half of the population used to believe but does not anymore and 6% have converted to a new religion.

I don't believe that. That is a mindblowing shift if true. A historic collapse of Islam in Iran. I...just...I would need to see much more conclusive proof to believe something that outside my expectations. But I will say that sometimes the best way to discredit an idea is to put it in charge, so maybe this is just the impact of decades of the Islamic State being in power. I don't know.

But it does point to a crisis. One that I don't think has much to do with the west. I mean it probably has a little to do with the west, but we are certainly not the only area outside of the Islamic world whose influence is now being felt culturally.

And these kinds of reactions against apostasy and blasphemy by those freely choosing to go their own way should be opposed, especially in our own western countries. Drawing Mohammed or doing whatever should be allowed, especially from ex-Muslims but even from those just seeking to mock or lampoon or critisize religions. Because I think that is just as important as supporting religosity.

But it is a tricky situation isn't it? Because we want to support the rights of apostates while also supporting the religious freedoms and rights of those who remain Muslims.

By the way almost everything thing I am saying and pointing out is also happening in most other religions and my opinion in those cases is the same. Religion, in general, is currently having some issues. Keeping the young people around is a struggle for everybody. 25% of children born Muslim leave Islam in the United States. That is not out of step with the rest of the religious population.

QuoteThey're all about edging the needle ever forwards, knowing the growth of far right views amongst the general population in the west will lead to growth of far right views amongst the muslim population, so on and so forth until it reaches tipping point where all the muslims of the world rally behind their banner and they get their battle of the civilizations that they're aiming for.

Except they are failing, as I have demonstrated.

QuoteIncidentally the white far right also has this same ultimate goal. They want to spread their radicalization step by step with a dream of the day the nation wakes up and rallies behind their flag against 'the others'.

I agree in the sense they are also reactionary and dangerous.

QuoteIts important not to give these groups what they both want or it just leads to more violence.

I agree. Both groups must be met with criticism of their bad ideas and support and solidarity with their victims.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 20, 2020, 05:22:54 AM
Back to topic, the above mentioned islamist concerned parent, Brahim C., whose daughter did not attend the civic education class in question (forms and limits of freedom of speech), was contacted by the perpetrator prior to the murder. His daughter did not attend the Civics class which makes the islamist outrage about it even more spurious.

https://www.nouvelobs.com/mort-de-samuel-paty/20201019.OBS34947/ce-que-l-on-sait-de-brahim-c-le-parent-d-eleve-qui-a-lance-une-fatwa-contre-samuel-paty.html (https://www.nouvelobs.com/mort-de-samuel-paty/20201019.OBS34947/ce-que-l-on-sait-de-brahim-c-le-parent-d-eleve-qui-a-lance-une-fatwa-contre-samuel-paty.html)

QuoteSelon les premiers éléments de l'enquête, ce parent d'élève, à l'origine de la mobilisation sur les réseaux sociaux contre Samuel Paty, aurait été contacté par l'assassin terroriste du professeur.

QuoteA noter que l'enquête ouverte suite au dépôt de plainte pour diffusion d'images pornographiques par Brahim C. contre Samuel Paty, démontrera que sa fille n'était pas présente lors du cours dispensé le 5 octobre. Quant à son exclusion, elle serait liée à des problèmes de comportements.

The freedom of speech limits question is actually much more, if not only, about the online bashing by the concerned islamist parent, by revealing the teacher's identity an calling for mobilisation against him, as in getting him fired officially, which could be very well seen an online harassment ; and the islamist preacher that preceded the murder.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 20, 2020, 11:41:42 AM
https://artofuss.blog/2020/10/19/zineb-el-rhazoui%E2%80%89-%E2%80%89le-ccif-mene-un-djihad%E2%80%89judiciaire/

from someone who can know.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 21, 2020, 02:22:42 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 20, 2020, 05:11:08 AM
Freedom of thought and opinion and yelling fire in a crowded theatre are not the same thing.
Sure. It's easy to see with the extremes. Its clear to say that an act of free speech that very directly causes harm in the moments after you perform it, is out of line.
But there's a whole lot of grey areas in the middle- what of those preachers who have a slant on religion that is harmful to non-believers, or conspiracy theorists spreading idiotic lies that 5G antennas are killing people, or deliberate fake news about a refugee raping and murdering a 10 year old that never happened?
The fact is from the very get-go with yelling fire that free speech is not a 100% free for all and there must always be some level of control in place.

Quote
I don't agree. I think it is about religion and fanaticism. Especially when we are talking about Pakistanis getting angry about something some French person did. Why would Pakistanis otherwise hate the French?
Its in their domain as a conservative Muslim rather than as a Pakistani. No doubt helped along by fake news and radical preachers who want to pull conservative muslism over the line into full radicalism.
Likewise on the other side of the fence with radicals in the west. Sometimes they operate for their country. Other times its about their race or western civilization as a whole. People have multiple aspects to their identity and any one of these can be exploited.

Quote
Well I disagree. Rules against blasphemy and apostasy and their social enforcement by fanatics is not new. And even to the extent that Islamism is a reaction to the western imperialism, that was not always so. There are plenty of ways to respond, such as Pan-Arabism.
So you're saying this Charlie Hebdo saga is completely disconnected to the general extremist Islam trends of recent decades?
I wouldn't agree there.
I have no doubt in a world without al quaida et al (where the cartoons wouldn't exist but...let's ignore that as it ruins the whole thing) that you'd still get plenty of conservative muslims moaning, maybe a fatwa from some far away priest. But it wouldn't be anything like as big a deal. Certainly you wouldn't have gotten the Charlie Hebdo attacks.

Quote
But I don't think this is a reaction to Western imperialism so much as these cultures being opened up to outside ideas that are changing their communities and causing a crisis in their religion. The internet age is rapidly speeding this process up. I talked about this a few years ago but the trends are really accelerating now.
Ish. There's the western ideas influencing them, but then there's also the muslim reformation going on with radical islamic teachings from the other side. There's also the massive factor of simple economics and desperate young men by their very nature looking for *something*.
Its all interconnected but it'd be a massive leap to say its about Islam being naturally against modern ideas as some are wont to do. Lest we forget historically Islam was far more tolerant than Christianity.

Quote]
I would ask for statistics showing crackdowns in the west and young people becoming more Islamic in response. Now there will always be fanatics and young people are drawn to fanaticism. But is this, in fact, what young muslims are doing?
I'm not sure how you'd measure this.
Pretty sure I have seen some polls on perceptions of Islamophobia amongst muslims, perhaps tracked over years?

There will always be extremists and young people are drawn to fanaticism. However not necessarily Islamicist fanaticism. Thats merely the fashion of the moment.

Quote
I bring the following data to your attention:

https://www.arabbarometer.org/media-news/young-arabs-are-changing-their-beliefs-and-perceptions-new-survey/

QuoteThe main findings were published by The Economist on 5 December 2019, showing that 'across the region the share of people expressing much trust in political parties, most of which have a religious tint, has fallen by well over a third since 2011, to 15 per cent. ... The doubts extend to religious leaders. In 2013, around 51 per cent of respondents said they trusted their religious leaders to a "great" or "medium" extent. When a comparable question was asked last year, the number was down to 40 per cent. ... The share of Arabs describing themselves as "not religious" is up to 13 per cent, from 8 per cent in 2013. That includes nearly half of young Tunisians, a third of young Libyans, a quarter of young Algerians and a fifth of young Egyptians.'

Interesting. This tells me Islamism is ultimately failing to do what it's real goal is and react against the encroachment of new ideas into the Muslim world. As a reactionary force it is starting to fumble.

This survey was particularly incredible:

https://iranintl.com/en/iran/iranians-have-lost-their-faith-according-survey
Yes, I wouldn't have any complaints about this. It does line up. 11/9 was 20 years ago now. Islamic extremism will have lost much of its youthful luster. Daesh's flash in the pan will also have done much to burn a lot of the potential influence in the current generation.
Its worth noting however these not religious numbers are still small and distrust of the established power blocks is a core part of the Islamic extremist ideology.


QuoteAccording to the results, 78% of Iranians believe in God, but only 26% of them believe in "the coming of the Messiah (Imam Mahdi)", which is one of the main beliefs of the Twelver Shiites.

While only 32% of Iranians consider themselves Shia Muslims, 9% have claimed to be atheists and 22% do not align with any religion. Half of the population used to believe but does not anymore and 6% have converted to a new religion.

I don't believe that. That is a mindblowing shift if true. A historic collapse of Islam in Iran. I...just...I would need to see much more conclusive proof to believe something that outside my expectations. But I will say that sometimes the best way to discredit an idea is to put it in charge, so maybe this is just the impact of decades of the Islamic State being in power. I don't know.[/quote]

Yeah, its quite interesting how irreligious Iranians are. Matches up with my personal encounters over the years too. In large part no doubt influenced by the powers that be in a not particularly great nation being conservative muslims.
Though a bit odd to mention Iran in this context. The sunni/shia split holds strong and most extremism we see this century is from the shia side of things. 
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with regards to the topic?

Quote
And these kinds of reactions against apostasy and blasphemy by those freely choosing to go their own way should be opposed, especially in our own western countries. Drawing Mohammed or doing whatever should be allowed, especially from ex-Muslims but even from those just seeking to mock or lampoon or critisize religions. Because I think that is just as important as supporting religosity.

But it is a tricky situation isn't it? Because we want to support the rights of apostates while also supporting the religious freedoms and rights of those who remain Muslims.
Yes. Its not the simple black and white for or against free speech that some would have it presented as.
As mentioned a factor that is massively damaged by the existence of counter productive groups who have no interest in seeking a genuine solution and will exploit free speech purely to try and damage it.

Quote
Except they are failing, as I have demonstrated.
Because we haven't given in to kneejerk Islamophobic nonsense.
As the white far right rises for other reasons we have to be sure to crack down on them as much as possible to show that we treat all extremism the same.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 21, 2020, 05:26:08 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 20, 2020, 11:41:42 AM
https://artofuss.blog/2020/10/19/zineb-el-rhazoui%E2%80%89-%E2%80%89le-ccif-mene-un-djihad%E2%80%89judiciaire/

from someone who can know.

That's from Le Point for those wondering, a centre-right mainstream publication actually, but the original article is paywalled. Thanks.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on October 21, 2020, 06:37:44 AM
Without having read everything: there is zero comparison between yelling "fire!" in a crowded theatre and drawing a caricature of a sacred person/animal/whatever.

It is impossible to build an even remotely free society around such limitations.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 21, 2020, 07:00:09 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 21, 2020, 06:37:44 AM
Without having read everything: there is zero comparison between yelling "fire!" in a crowded theatre and drawing a caricature of a sacred person/animal/whatever.

It is impossible to build an even remotely free society around such limitations.
And saying to kill people who draw caricatures?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on October 21, 2020, 07:11:48 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 21, 2020, 07:00:09 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 21, 2020, 06:37:44 AM
Without having read everything: there is zero comparison between yelling "fire!" in a crowded theatre and drawing a caricature of a sacred person/animal/whatever.

It is impossible to build an even remotely free society around such limitations.
And saying to kill people who draw caricatures?

Actually, both yelling "fire" to cause mass panic and inciting people to kill others have the same desired effect: kill people, so yes they are pretty much the same.


Violence and inciting to it seems like an obvious line in the sand to draw even in a liberal society.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on October 21, 2020, 10:03:51 AM
I'm not even sure why anyone is entertaining Tyr's argument that under "complete natural freedom then I would be free to murder whoever I like."  That's not true at all, and is absurd on the face of it.  Everyone's freedoms are limited to the extent that they infringe on the freedoms of others, and one of the reasons we create societies is to adjudicate between competing liberties.

And the "shout 'fire' in a crowded theater" argument is just as bad; of course, if there is a fire, then one can warn others, even if the place is crowded.  It is only unprotected speech if it is knowingly false.  Knowingly false speech is not protected by free speech rights, except for the purposes of satire, openly fictional writing, and the like; speech that no reasonable person would conceive to be meant to be truthful.

Speech that is believed by the speaker to be true, but which might offend others, is still protected speech, unless it actively incites violence.

The attacks by Islamic extremists are about the social and political conditions in the countries from which they originate, not about Islam.  All that "clash of civilizations" shit has ben discredited for so long even its echoes should have died out by now in every decent mind.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 21, 2020, 11:09:45 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 20, 2020, 03:07:48 AM
QuoteI am not following your argument.  Liberal political theory, as formulated John Stuart Mill, would say that natural freedom is restricted when it causes harm to others.  Most of our modern legal tradition is built on that concept, including our concept of freedom of expression.  No one has the freedom to falsely yell "Fire" in a crowded theatre etc.

That's exactly my argument, you followed it.  :bowler:
Duque however was arguing that this is not the case and that freedom of expression must be absolute with zero buts. That yelling fire in a crowded theatre is fine.

I don't think that was Duque's point.  The But Brigade isn't suggesting free speech should be limited by the widely recognized limits imposed by law.  They are suggesting limits that you are, that one must be concerned about causing insult etc.

But f speech was never offensive we would not need a concept such as freedom of speech.  Simple put, freedom of speech exists to protect speech which is offensive.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 21, 2020, 11:34:33 AM
QuoteI don't think that was Duque's point.  The But Brigade isn't suggesting free speech should be limited by the widely recognized limits imposed by law.  They are suggesting limits that you are, that one must be concerned about causing insult etc.

But f speech was never offensive we would not need a concept such as freedom of speech.  Simple put, freedom of speech exists to protect speech which is offensive.
In other words everyone is in the "but brigade". Everyone puts a line for what is acceptable somewhere. There is no stark division between those who have an absolute belief in free speech and those who oppose this. Rather we all have different nuanced ideas of exactly where the line is.

Quote from: Tamas on October 21, 2020, 07:11:48 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 21, 2020, 07:00:09 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 21, 2020, 06:37:44 AM
Without having read everything: there is zero comparison between yelling "fire!" in a crowded theatre and drawing a caricature of a sacred person/animal/whatever.

It is impossible to build an even remotely free society around such limitations.
And saying to kill people who draw caricatures?

Actually, both yelling "fire" to cause mass panic and inciting people to kill others have the same desired effect: kill people, so yes they are pretty much the same.


Violence and inciting to it seems like an obvious line in the sand to draw even in a liberal society.
OK. Agreed that directly saying kill this guy as he is offensive is definitely on the not OK side of the line.
But how far does this go?
Things don't suddenly go from saying explicitly to kill someone to saying nothing wrong. There's a lot of stuff gets said that is masked behind dog whistles and encourages crime without outright calling for a specific crime.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on October 21, 2020, 11:59:27 AM
QuoteThings don't suddenly go from saying explicitly to kill someone to saying nothing wrong. There's a lot of stuff gets said that is masked behind dog whistles and encourages crime without outright calling for a specific crime

That is true and a constant challenge for modern societies. There never will be no point where we can validly say "we have this nailed down exactly right for sure". However, self-censoring because otherwise you might be killed is absolutely not acceptable.

And the murder of somebody just because they showed a drawing is not the time to go "yes but on the other hand". 
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 21, 2020, 12:00:48 PM
Laws should ideally be black or white- this is legal, this is not. Banning "dog whistles" is arbitrary and leaves everyone unable to speak freely.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on October 21, 2020, 12:52:38 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 21, 2020, 12:00:48 PM
Laws should ideally be black or white- this is legal, this is not.

Unfortunately, life is more nuanced than that which is why many laws have what we call Ermessensspielraum, which the internet tells me translates as administrative discretion (which would be applicable for public administration) or latitude of judgment. When I was training for public administration, there was a lot of emphasis on exercising this discretion correctly and reasonably.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 21, 2020, 12:57:31 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 21, 2020, 12:52:38 PM
Unfortunately, life is more nuanced than that which is why many laws have what we call Ermessensspielraum, which the internet tells me translates as administrative discretion (which would be applicable for public administration) or latitude of judgment. When I was training for public administration, there was a lot of emphasis on exercising this discretion correctly and reasonably.
And it's very common for prosecutors to have a degree of discretion. Often there will be a lot of guidance about the relevant considerations and also what the law is trying to achieve.

A black and white legal system would be either insanely complex or very unjust.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 21, 2020, 01:01:13 PM
Not if you're stripping away discretion to prosecute offenses that would otherwise not exist.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on October 21, 2020, 01:25:42 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on October 21, 2020, 12:57:31 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 21, 2020, 12:52:38 PM
Unfortunately, life is more nuanced than that which is why many laws have what we call Ermessensspielraum, which the internet tells me translates as administrative discretion (which would be applicable for public administration) or latitude of judgment. When I was training for public administration, there was a lot of emphasis on exercising this discretion correctly and reasonably.
And it's very common for prosecutors to have a degree of discretion. Often there will be a lot of guidance about the relevant considerations and also what the law is trying to achieve.

A black and white legal system would be either insanely complex or very unjust.

He didn't say a black and white legal system. He said black and white LAWS. Vague arbitrary laws, where there actual meaning and legality of an action is not clear to the common people, would result in a simple and just legal system in your book?

No. The laws are black and white. It is their application where all the discretion and fuzziness comes from. If the laws were also vague and arbitrary then I think you would have a very unjust and complicated system indeed.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on October 21, 2020, 01:33:37 PM
That is not true, though. Many laws contain language that allows for leeway. Dunno about English language laws, but German laws have phrases like
- soll (should/shall)
- kann (can/may)
- regelmäßig (in general)
etc.

And it can be up to the person implementing the law (often a public admin person) to call which applies. The laws often give some ideas of what exceptions might be (e.g. "vor allem" or "insbesondere" = especially), plus there are guidelines from higher up, legal commentary, and, eventually, court decisions.

The advantage of such language is that it often requires less updating than a black/white law when views and general consensus change.

Obviously, much of the law is black and white, but there are significant fuzzy areas.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 21, 2020, 01:47:03 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 21, 2020, 01:25:42 PM
He didn't say a black and white legal system. He said black and white LAWS. Vague arbitrary laws, where there actual meaning and legality of an action is not clear to the common people, would result in a simple and just legal system in your book?

No. The laws are black and white. It is their application where all the discretion and fuzziness comes from. If the laws were also vague and arbitrary then I think you would have a very unjust and complicated system indeed.
Okay - I'm not sure I agree I think laws are almost always a bit fuzzy. That isn't vague and arbitrary, it's because they are subject to interpretation by the courts and the meaning of words is not fixed and as Syt says include words that are not always entirely clear diktats. I think there's a huge difference between not black and white and vague and arbitrary - because to me a black and white legal system is arbitrary, it's got no justice in it. And ultimately people don't follow laws because they've read the laws - I don't think that's necessary or important for fairness, they are technical manuals really.

I'd also add that most of the work I do is basically derived from European law which is based on civil law systems and it is - to English eyes - incredibly vague (and to American eyes English legal is probably incredibly vague). This isn't criminal law, but it is almost all principles based so you set out general principles which it's then up to you to apply and there may be some clear requirements but a lot of it will be around taking measures that are "appropriate" or "proportionate" or "necessary" which are not clear words.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Barrister on October 21, 2020, 01:52:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 21, 2020, 01:25:42 PM
He didn't say a black and white legal system. He said black and white LAWS. Vague arbitrary laws, where there actual meaning and legality of an action is not clear to the common people, would result in a simple and just legal system in your book?

No. The laws are black and white. It is their application where all the discretion and fuzziness comes from. If the laws were also vague and arbitrary then I think you would have a very unjust and complicated system indeed.

It's a very old debate in the legal world between having predictable results versus having a system that can take all the circumstances into account.

Let me give you just a couple of examples that come to mind.  Both are from Canadian law, because this is Languish and the Canadian lawyer cabal rules all.

If you get divorced and you have kids child support is incredibly black and white.  You look up how much money you make, cross-reference how many kids you have and bam that's how much child support you have to pay.  As a lawyer it makes settlement incredibly easy - no one can fight over child support because the chart rules all.  But it also can't take into account any special circumstances.  For example it doesn't take into account  that you might also be paying child support for different kids with a different partner.  It doesn't take into account whether your partner needs the money. **

Now in a totally different circumstance, the law of self-defence.  The law was re-written several years ago.  It now reads you can use force to defend yourself if the force used is "reasonable in the circumstances".  How can you tell if something is reasonable in the circumstances?  Well the law tells you 9 different things to consider (and specifies that is not an exhaustive list).  So now this law is incredibly flexible - you can consider all kinds of factors.  But as a trial lawyer that makes it incredibly unpredictable - I have no idea what any one judge will find to be reasonable or not.  Which leads to more litigation.


*** For any legal pedants out there - child support applies if you have the children 40% of the time or less.  If you go over 40% then there is off-setting child support.  There is also some discretion in ordering additional child support for exceptional expenses, but nothing that will get you under the table amount.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on October 21, 2020, 04:00:01 PM
I think the problem with discretion is when it's unaccountable.  It's one thing for a prosecutor to make a decision to not try the case.  The decision is public, and they can be asked to explain why they chose to apply the discretion that they did.  It's another thing when discretion is applied by cops on the beat, where the decisions subject to discretion are largely not observable, and where any kind of systemic difference in application of the law can be rolled up as "discretion".
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Zanza on October 21, 2020, 04:07:49 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 21, 2020, 01:33:37 PM
That is not true, though. Many laws contain language that allows for leeway. Dunno about English language laws, but German laws have phrases like
- soll (should/shall)
- kann (can/may)
- regelmäßig (in general)
etc.

And it can be up to the person implementing the law (often a public admin person) to call which applies. The laws often give some ideas of what exceptions might be (e.g. "vor allem" or "insbesondere" = especially), plus there are guidelines from higher up, legal commentary, and, eventually, court decisions.

The advantage of such language is that it often requires less updating than a black/white law when views and general consensus change.

Obviously, much of the law is black and white, but there are significant fuzzy areas.
And of course there is the Verhältnismäßigkeitsprinzip.  ;)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Barrister on October 21, 2020, 04:23:40 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 21, 2020, 04:00:01 PM
I think the problem with discretion is when it's unaccountable.  It's one thing for a prosecutor to make a decision to not try the case.  The decision is public, and they can be asked to explain why they chose to apply the discretion that they did.  It's another thing when discretion is applied by cops on the beat, where the decisions subject to discretion are largely not observable, and where any kind of systemic difference in application of the law can be rolled up as "discretion".

We're under absolutely zero obligation to explain our discretion to anyone besides our managers.  If it's a matter of Crown discretion neither the judge nor the public (nor the police) have a right to know.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on October 21, 2020, 05:00:27 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2020, 04:23:40 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 21, 2020, 04:00:01 PM
I think the problem with discretion is when it's unaccountable.  It's one thing for a prosecutor to make a decision to not try the case.  The decision is public, and they can be asked to explain why they chose to apply the discretion that they did.  It's another thing when discretion is applied by cops on the beat, where the decisions subject to discretion are largely not observable, and where any kind of systemic difference in application of the law can be rolled up as "discretion".

We're under absolutely zero obligation to explain our discretion to anyone besides our managers.  If it's a matter of Crown discretion neither the judge nor the public (nor the police) have a right to know.
If it's important enough, the public will know.  The point is that there is an obvious decision there to be scrutinized.  It's hard to scrutinize how the cop decides which cars with a busted tail light he's going to pull over.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 21, 2020, 05:10:46 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 21, 2020, 11:34:33 AM
QuoteI don't think that was Duque's point.  The But Brigade isn't suggesting free speech should be limited by the widely recognized limits imposed by law.  They are suggesting limits that you are, that one must be concerned about causing insult etc.

But f speech was never offensive we would not need a concept such as freedom of speech.  Simple put, freedom of speech exists to protect speech which is offensive.
In other words everyone is in the "but brigade". Everyone puts a line for what is acceptable somewhere. There is no stark division between those who have an absolute belief in free speech and those who oppose this. Rather we all have different nuanced ideas of exactly where the line is.

No, and I think I can see now where the disconnect is.  You think freedom of expression is the freedom to say anything.  It isn't.  Freedom of expression has its own internal constraints.  The But Brigade, and you apparently, would like to put even more constraints on so as to make free speech less offensive.

Quote from: DGuller on October 21, 2020, 05:00:27 PM

If it's important enough, the public will know.  The point is that there is an obvious decision there to be scrutinized.  It's hard to scrutinize how the cop decides which cars with a busted tail light he's going to pull over.

That would be a neat trick.  When you figure out why BB, for example, has decided not to prosecute a case, let me know your secret.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on October 21, 2020, 07:21:04 PM
There's a simple "But brigade" test for Ty r and his ilk:  "if someone believes that something is true, even if it isn't, should there be any moral or legal impediment to them saying it?"

If they say "no," they are not members.  They believe in free speech.

If they say, "no, but..." then they are members.

If they say "yes," then they are not members, but rather simple free speech deniers.

If someone does not believe something is true, or it is incitement to violence, it isn't protected by free speech rights at all, so the case does not apply.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on October 21, 2020, 08:46:04 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2020, 01:52:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 21, 2020, 01:25:42 PM
He didn't say a black and white legal system. He said black and white LAWS. Vague arbitrary laws, where there actual meaning and legality of an action is not clear to the common people, would result in a simple and just legal system in your book?

No. The laws are black and white. It is their application where all the discretion and fuzziness comes from. If the laws were also vague and arbitrary then I think you would have a very unjust and complicated system indeed.

It's a very old debate in the legal world between having predictable results versus having a system that can take all the circumstances into account.

Let me give you just a couple of examples that come to mind.  Both are from Canadian law, because this is Languish and the Canadian lawyer cabal rules all.

If you get divorced and you have kids child support is incredibly black and white.  You look up how much money you make, cross-reference how many kids you have and bam that's how much child support you have to pay.  As a lawyer it makes settlement incredibly easy - no one can fight over child support because the chart rules all.  But it also can't take into account any special circumstances.  For example it doesn't take into account  that you might also be paying child support for different kids with a different partner.  It doesn't take into account whether your partner needs the money. **

Now in a totally different circumstance, the law of self-defence.  The law was re-written several years ago.  It now reads you can use force to defend yourself if the force used is "reasonable in the circumstances".  How can you tell if something is reasonable in the circumstances?  Well the law tells you 9 different things to consider (and specifies that is not an exhaustive list).  So now this law is incredibly flexible - you can consider all kinds of factors.  But as a trial lawyer that makes it incredibly unpredictable - I have no idea what any one judge will find to be reasonable or not.  Which leads to more litigation.


*** For any legal pedants out there - child support applies if you have the children 40% of the time or less.  If you go over 40% then there is off-setting child support.  There is also some discretion in ordering additional child support for exceptional expenses, but nothing that will get you under the table amount.

I am well aware that there is a lot of haggling over the terms and meanings and definitions and what constitutes "Reasonable" and all that. That is exactly what I was referring to.

The law however clearly intends that self defense be legal. That is black and white. What exactly is reasonable in its application is where it gets gray.

But if the law itself was unclear as to whether self defense is legal and the law itself was not black and white well then it wouldn't even be gray. It would just be a big morass of baffling unclear non-transparent arbitrariness.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on October 21, 2020, 09:50:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2020, 04:23:40 PM
We're under absolutely zero obligation to explain our discretion to anyone besides our managers.  If it's a matter of Crown discretion neither the judge nor the public (nor the police) have a right to know.
but there's a written trace of your explanations.  If a particular case comes to the attention of the opposition in the Commons, I guess the Minister could ask his department for explanations?  And if there are suspicisions of criminal corruption or of any kind of political pressure, than these documents can be used to investigate or do they have to remain confidential? 

Ex: Let's say the minister of justice is accused of calling a prosecutor to let a friend of the party go, could he reveal, in a justice committee, the reasons why this person/company was not prosecuted, and exonerate itself?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 21, 2020, 10:54:38 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 21, 2020, 09:50:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2020, 04:23:40 PM
We're under absolutely zero obligation to explain our discretion to anyone besides our managers.  If it's a matter of Crown discretion neither the judge nor the public (nor the police) have a right to know.
but there's a written trace of your explanations.  If a particular case comes to the attention of the opposition in the Commons, I guess the Minister could ask his department for explanations?  And if there are suspicisions of criminal corruption or of any kind of political pressure, than these documents can be used to investigate or do they have to remain confidential? 

Ex: Let's say the minister of justice is accused of calling a prosecutor to let a friend of the party go, could he reveal, in a justice committee, the reasons why this person/company was not prosecuted, and exonerate itself?

I would hope the answer BB would give in this hypothetical is a refresher course on prosecutorial independence for the idiot who convened such a committee.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on October 22, 2020, 03:14:40 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2020, 04:23:40 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 21, 2020, 04:00:01 PM
I think the problem with discretion is when it's unaccountable.  It's one thing for a prosecutor to make a decision to not try the case.  The decision is public, and they can be asked to explain why they chose to apply the discretion that they did.  It's another thing when discretion is applied by cops on the beat, where the decisions subject to discretion are largely not observable, and where any kind of systemic difference in application of the law can be rolled up as "discretion".

We're under absolutely zero obligation to explain our discretion to anyone besides our managers.  If it's a matter of Crown discretion neither the judge nor the public (nor the police) have a right to know.

What's the mechanism for independent review of your discretion?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 22, 2020, 09:35:21 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 22, 2020, 03:14:40 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2020, 04:23:40 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 21, 2020, 04:00:01 PM
I think the problem with discretion is when it's unaccountable.  It's one thing for a prosecutor to make a decision to not try the case.  The decision is public, and they can be asked to explain why they chose to apply the discretion that they did.  It's another thing when discretion is applied by cops on the beat, where the decisions subject to discretion are largely not observable, and where any kind of systemic difference in application of the law can be rolled up as "discretion".

We're under absolutely zero obligation to explain our discretion to anyone besides our managers.  If it's a matter of Crown discretion neither the judge nor the public (nor the police) have a right to know.

What's the mechanism for independent review of your discretion?

If you reread his post, you will see his answer.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 22, 2020, 09:48:07 AM
QuoteNo, and I think I can see now where the disconnect is.  You think freedom of expression is the freedom to say anything.  It isn't.  Freedom of expression has its own internal constraints.  The But Brigade, and you apparently, would like to put even more constraints on so as to make free speech less offensive.

That sounds pretty selective to me- basically free speech is the right to say anything.... Except the things we have decided are absolutely unacceptable to say. And anyone who draws this line in the slightest bit stricter place to us is an opponent of free speech (but not us).

The only sensible way to look at it is that free speech is absolute. Yelling fire in a crowded theatre, screaming death to America, this is all free speech. Everybody but the most radical of libertarians/anarchists then draws a line (maybe a fuzzy one) somewhere for what is acceptable and what not.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on October 22, 2020, 09:55:45 AM
It's almost like there's a constant evolution of what is and isn't acceptable free speech :o

(which leads to arguments, of course, but is part of the process)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 22, 2020, 10:04:45 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 22, 2020, 09:48:07 AM
QuoteNo, and I think I can see now where the disconnect is.  You think freedom of expression is the freedom to say anything.  It isn't.  Freedom of expression has its own internal constraints.  The But Brigade, and you apparently, would like to put even more constraints on so as to make free speech less offensive.

That sounds pretty selective to me- basically free speech is the right to say anything.... Except the things we have decided are absolutely unacceptable to say. And anyone who draws this line in the slightest bit stricter place to us is an opponent of free speech (but not us).

The only sensible way to look at it is that free speech is absolute. Yelling fire in a crowded theatre, screaming death to America, this is all free speech. Everybody but the most radical of libertarians/anarchists then draws a line (maybe a fuzzy one) somewhere for what is acceptable and what not.

I think this is where a lot of free speech/freedom of expression discussions go wrong.  That has never been the case except in libertarian fantasy fiction. 

If you want to make up your own definition of what it is, fine.  But just understand you are having a different debate at that point.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on October 22, 2020, 10:31:46 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 21, 2020, 07:21:04 PM
There's a simple "But brigade" test for Ty r and his ilk:  "if someone believes that something is true, even if it isn't, should there be any moral or legal impediment to them saying it?"

If they say "no," they are not members.  They believe in free speech.

If they say, "no, but..." then they are members.

If they say "yes," then they are not members, but rather simple free speech deniers.

If someone does not believe something is true, or it is incitement to violence, it isn't protected by free speech rights at all, so the case does not apply.

This test puts defamation law on the free speech denying side of the line.

Subjective Belief in the truth of a statement is not generally a defence to defamation (actual truth is, as is in some jurisdictions meeting some reasonable standard of diligence in inquiring after truth; or, only for public figures being the target, actual recklessness or malice).
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 22, 2020, 10:32:09 AM
QuoteI think this is where a lot of free speech/freedom of expression discussions go wrong.  That has never been the case except in libertarian fantasy fiction.

If you want to make up your own definition of what it is, fine.  But just understand you are having a different debate at that point.

Exactly.
Which makes it all the weirder to find fault with those who would discuss exactly where the line lies. Everyone supports "free speech but".
There is no clear black and white line between those who support practical free speech and those who do not. Everyone has some buts. All existing laws in every country contain exceptions.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 22, 2020, 11:08:18 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 21, 2020, 08:46:04 PM
I am well aware that there is a lot of haggling over the terms and meanings and definitions and what constitutes "Reasonable" and all that. That is exactly what I was referring to.

The law however clearly intends that self defense be legal. That is black and white. What exactly is reasonable in its application is where it gets gray.

But if the law itself was unclear as to whether self defense is legal and the law itself was not black and white well then it wouldn't even be gray. It would just be a big morass of baffling unclear non-transparent arbitrariness.
But I suppose my view is that haggling is the content of the law. My take on what BBoy says (and it's similar in the UK) is that self-defence is legal (or a defence) in certain circumstances and not in others. I don't think that can be described as black and white - it's saying self-defence can be legal. The actual law is in defining and clarifying those circumstances because that's what tells you if something is lawful or not.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Barrister on October 22, 2020, 11:28:00 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 22, 2020, 03:14:40 AM
Quote from: Barrister on October 21, 2020, 04:23:40 PM
Quote from: DGuller on October 21, 2020, 04:00:01 PM
I think the problem with discretion is when it's unaccountable.  It's one thing for a prosecutor to make a decision to not try the case.  The decision is public, and they can be asked to explain why they chose to apply the discretion that they did.  It's another thing when discretion is applied by cops on the beat, where the decisions subject to discretion are largely not observable, and where any kind of systemic difference in application of the law can be rolled up as "discretion".

We're under absolutely zero obligation to explain our discretion to anyone besides our managers.  If it's a matter of Crown discretion neither the judge nor the public (nor the police) have a right to know.

What's the mechanism for independent review of your discretion?

There is almost none.  There is some slight room for an Accused to try to allege that we are being malicious in our exercise of discretion which might cause us to have to explain our use of discretion to a judge, but the caselaw grants us wide leeway and it would require a finding of actual malice in order for a judge to order a remedy.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 22, 2020, 11:46:44 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 22, 2020, 10:31:46 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 21, 2020, 07:21:04 PM
There's a simple "But brigade" test for Ty r and his ilk:  "if someone believes that something is true, even if it isn't, should there be any moral or legal impediment to them saying it?"

If they say "no," they are not members.  They believe in free speech.

If they say, "no, but..." then they are members.

If they say "yes," then they are not members, but rather simple free speech deniers.

If someone does not believe something is true, or it is incitement to violence, it isn't protected by free speech rights at all, so the case does not apply.

This test puts defamation law on the free speech denying side of the line.

Subjective Belief in the truth of a statement is not generally a defence to defamation (actual truth is, as is in some jurisdictions meeting some reasonable standard of diligence in inquiring after truth; or, only for public figures being the target, actual recklessness or malice).

This is one of the areas where Canadian and American law differs.

You are correct that an honest but mistaken belief that a statement is true provides limited protection in Canada if the other elements of qualified privilege can be made out.  But I believe the situation is quite different in the US where an honest but mistaken belief provides much more protection.  Which explains a bit why you see so many more false attacks being made against character down south.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on October 22, 2020, 02:14:02 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 22, 2020, 09:55:45 AM
It's almost like there's a constant evolution of what is and isn't acceptable free speech :o

Ok well how can that evolution occur if speech is persecuted? That evolution requires unacceptable speech to take place.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 22, 2020, 02:20:21 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 22, 2020, 10:32:09 AM
Exactly.
Which makes it all the weirder to find fault with those who would discuss exactly where the line lies. Everyone supports "free speech but".
There is no clear black and white line between those who support practical free speech and those who do not. Everyone has some buts. All existing laws in every country contain exceptions.

My problem with the line you are trying to draw is that it seems to forbid the Syllland Post and Charlie Hebdo cartoons.

You say you're against right wingers trolling Islam.  Sylland and Charlie did exactly that.  They published cartoons they knew would offend Muslims to make a statement about free speech and to stand up to violent intimidation.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on October 22, 2020, 10:09:46 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 22, 2020, 11:46:44 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 22, 2020, 10:31:46 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 21, 2020, 07:21:04 PM
There's a simple "But brigade" test for Ty r and his ilk:  "if someone believes that something is true, even if it isn't, should there be any moral or legal impediment to them saying it?"

If they say "no," they are not members.  They believe in free speech.

If they say, "no, but..." then they are members.

If they say "yes," then they are not members, but rather simple free speech deniers.

If someone does not believe something is true, or it is incitement to violence, it isn't protected by free speech rights at all, so the case does not apply.

This test puts defamation law on the free speech denying side of the line.

Subjective Belief in the truth of a statement is not generally a defence to defamation (actual truth is, as is in some jurisdictions meeting some reasonable standard of diligence in inquiring after truth; or, only for public figures being the target, actual recklessness or malice).

This is one of the areas where Canadian and American law differs.

You are correct that an honest but mistaken belief that a statement is true provides limited protection in Canada if the other elements of qualified privilege can be made out.  But I believe the situation is quite different in the US where an honest but mistaken belief provides much more protection.  Which explains a bit why you see so many more false attacks being made against character down south.

I know the US has much stronger protections for free speech than the UK (where the burden of proof in defamation cases is on the defendant, not the plaintiff).  So much stronger, in fact, that the US passed in 2010 a federal law prohibiting US courts from enforcing UK libel rulings.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 23, 2020, 05:54:53 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 22, 2020, 02:20:21 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 22, 2020, 10:32:09 AM
Exactly.
Which makes it all the weirder to find fault with those who would discuss exactly where the line lies. Everyone supports "free speech but".
There is no clear black and white line between those who support practical free speech and those who do not. Everyone has some buts. All existing laws in every country contain exceptions.

My problem with the line you are trying to draw is that it seems to forbid the Syllland Post and Charlie Hebdo cartoons.

You say you're against right wingers trolling Islam.  Sylland and Charlie did exactly that.  They published cartoons they knew would offend Muslims to make a statement about free speech and to stand up to violent intimidation.
I never said that.
I don't know enough about Charlie Hebdo to comment on their specific case and I've never heard of Sylland Post.
My view is that hate speech, speech designed purely to cause offence with absolutely zero reasonable defence, should be a crime.

I have never read CH but to imagine a comparable context, in the case of a satirical magazine making jokes that some groups find offensive- then there should be a clear avenue for these groups to challenge these jokes in court.... but the context of a satirical magazine that takes pops at everyone, the jokes clearly being aimed at their target audience and not the offended group, iirc in the CH case it was a general anti religion joke rather than targeted against muslims, etc... it should be extremely unlikely anything would ever come of this other than the complainers being fined for wasting time.
On the other hand if a local neo nazi is doodling shitty cartoons of paedo-muhammed and posting them through the door of the local mosque....then that is clearly targeted harassment and a challenge there should be likely to lead to a prosecution.

Context, audience, past behaviour, validity of criticisms, the way they're presented, etc... should all be relevant factors.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on October 23, 2020, 06:37:56 AM
Who said there was no way for offended Muslims to the take their offence to court though? Maybe they have. What happened to CH though is that they got murdered for drawing silly cartoons about some people's sacred cow.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 23, 2020, 06:46:49 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 23, 2020, 06:37:56 AM
Who said there was no way for offended Muslims to the take their offence to court though? Maybe they have. What happened to CH though is that they got murdered for drawing silly cartoons about some people's sacred cow.
I  have no idea what the French law is. Its not something relevant here in the broader conversation about what should and shouldn't be free speech.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on October 23, 2020, 07:31:29 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 23, 2020, 05:54:53 AM

My view is that hate speech, speech designed purely to cause offence with absolutely zero reasonable defence, should be a crime.

This goes way further than the "But... brigade" goes.  You are right there in anti-free-speech-no-question-about-it territory.  If you seek to criminalize "causing offence" then you don't believe in free speech even without the "but..... " part.

People have no right not to be offended, and "causing offence" is such a subjective concept that using it as the basis for a criminal charge is allowing anyone to be arrested for virtually anything.  All of the "purely" and "with absolutely zero defense" qualifications are meaningless, because they to are purely subjective qualifiers.

QuoteI have never read CH but to imagine a comparable context, in the case of a satirical magazine making jokes that some groups find offensive- then there should be a clear avenue for these groups to challenge these jokes in court....

I could not disagree more.  It is not the court's place to challenge jokes.

QuoteOn the other hand if a local neo nazi is doodling shitty cartoons of paedo-muhammed and posting them through the door of the local mosque....then that is clearly targeted harassment and a challenge there should be likely to lead to a prosecution.

Nope.  This isn't, and shouldn't be, a violation of any laws bar trespass.

QuoteContext, audience, past behaviour, validity of criticisms, the way they're presented, etc... should all be relevant factors.

Nope.  These are all purely subjective criteria and should be limited to aggravation/mitigation/extenuation arguments.  You cannot make laws that criminalize behavior based on subjective factors like "validity of criticisms."

The law is a club, not a scalpel. 
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 23, 2020, 09:45:07 AM
Quote from: Tyr on October 23, 2020, 05:54:53 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on October 22, 2020, 02:20:21 PM
Quote from: Tyr on October 22, 2020, 10:32:09 AM
Exactly.
Which makes it all the weirder to find fault with those who would discuss exactly where the line lies. Everyone supports "free speech but".
There is no clear black and white line between those who support practical free speech and those who do not. Everyone has some buts. All existing laws in every country contain exceptions.

My problem with the line you are trying to draw is that it seems to forbid the Syllland Post and Charlie Hebdo cartoons.

You say you're against right wingers trolling Islam.  Sylland and Charlie did exactly that.  They published cartoons they knew would offend Muslims to make a statement about free speech and to stand up to violent intimidation.
I never said that.
I don't know enough about Charlie Hebdo to comment on their specific case and I've never heard of Sylland Post.
My view is that hate speech, speech designed purely to cause offence with absolutely zero reasonable defence, should be a crime.

I have never read CH but to imagine a comparable context, in the case of a satirical magazine making jokes that some groups find offensive- then there should be a clear avenue for these groups to challenge these jokes in court.... but the context of a satirical magazine that takes pops at everyone, the jokes clearly being aimed at their target audience and not the offended group, iirc in the CH case it was a general anti religion joke rather than targeted against muslims, etc... it should be extremely unlikely anything would ever come of this other than the complainers being fined for wasting time.
On the other hand if a local neo nazi is doodling shitty cartoons of paedo-muhammed and posting them through the door of the local mosque....then that is clearly targeted harassment and a challenge there should be likely to lead to a prosecution.

Context, audience, past behaviour, validity of criticisms, the way they're presented, etc... should all be relevant factors.

Lets put your new standard for freedom of expression to the test with a hypothetical.

A person walks on a public sidewalk outside a steak house protest killing cattle for consumption. They carry a placard with a disturbing picture of slaughterhouse in action.  There is a caption which reads "meat is murder".  The protestor has been a part of a vegan protest group for many years and has been protesting outside this restaurant many times.  The owner of the restaurant calls the police and says the protestor is committing a criminal offence.

Under the current law the police politely explain to the restaurateur that no criminal offence is being committed.  Under the Tyr law an investigation ensues.  The investigating officer loves steak and cannot see any justification for why anyone would be so offensive.
Looking at the Tyr factors the investigator determines that there is certainly a pattern of such behaviour which is meant to offend those who love eating steak.  Further, the investigator determines that the views of the protestor are not widely held and so are not valid, reasoning that if they were valid then no one would eat steak.  Further there were less offensive ways to express the idea that people should not eat meat.  That is really the clincher.  The protestor was clearly acting in an offensive manner on the Tyr criteria.

tldr - freedom of expression is the freedom from state sanction to express ideas which are offensive to the majority.     
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 23, 2020, 10:40:42 AM
QuoteLets put your new standard for freedom of expression to the test with a hypothetical.

A person walks on a public sidewalk outside a steak house protest killing cattle for consumption. They carry a placard with a disturbing picture of slaughterhouse in action.  There is a caption which reads "meat is murder".  The protestor has been a part of a vegan protest group for many years and has been protesting outside this restaurant many times.  The owner of the restaurant calls the police and says the protestor is committing a criminal offence.

Under the current law the police politely explain to the restaurateur that no criminal offence is being committed.  Under the Tyr law an investigation ensues.  The investigating officer loves steak and cannot see any justification for why anyone would be so offensive.
Looking at the Tyr factors the investigator determines that there is certainly a pattern of such behaviour which is meant to offend those who love eating steak.  Further, the investigator determines that the views of the protestor are not widely held and so are not valid, reasoning that if they were valid then no one would eat steak.  Further there were less offensive ways to express the idea that people should not eat meat.  That is really the clincher.  The protestor was clearly acting in an offensive manner on the Tyr criteria.

Is this example because you know I'm big on animal rights?
Gross out tactics always get the thumbs down from me. Equally imagine it's a radical Christian group outside a sex shop and they've got a TV screen playing graphic pornography whilst children walk by.
Of course this kind of thing shouldn't be allowed.

The bias factor doesn't even come into this theoretical. If we imagine another theoretical where it might...Well that applies for any law. In a circumstance where the authorities clearly have sympathies with Group A and against Group B, and they find in Group As favour against the evidence, then that's really an injustice. Such an abuse of the law warrants the case stepping up from a very minor slap on the wrist and minor fine sort of crime towards something very serious indeed.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on October 23, 2020, 10:45:45 AM
On that I think there have been examples in the UK of restrictions on where Christians can protest outside of centres where women can get abortions. I think it's based on the powers of the police and local authorities to restrict protesting, so they're moved to an exclusion zone normally a little bit away from the centre so they can't directly harass the women walking in and out.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 23, 2020, 11:21:18 AM
Quote from: Tamas on October 23, 2020, 06:37:56 AM
Who said there was no way for offended Muslims to the take their offence to court though? Maybe they have. What happened to CH though is that they got murdered for drawing silly cartoons about some people's sacred cow.

Le CCIF mène un djihad judiciaire (from the article I posted).
The CCIF is such an organisation. Jihad can be waged in many ways. All of them destructive to society.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on October 24, 2020, 04:18:30 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 22, 2020, 11:46:44 AM
Quote from: Malthus on October 22, 2020, 10:31:46 AM
Quote from: grumbler on October 21, 2020, 07:21:04 PM
There's a simple "But brigade" test for Ty r and his ilk:  "if someone believes that something is true, even if it isn't, should there be any moral or legal impediment to them saying it?"

If they say "no," they are not members.  They believe in free speech.

If they say, "no, but..." then they are members.

If they say "yes," then they are not members, but rather simple free speech deniers.

If someone does not believe something is true, or it is incitement to violence, it isn't protected by free speech rights at all, so the case does not apply.

This test puts defamation law on the free speech denying side of the line.

Subjective Belief in the truth of a statement is not generally a defence to defamation (actual truth is, as is in some jurisdictions meeting some reasonable standard of diligence in inquiring after truth; or, only for public figures being the target, actual recklessness or malice).

This is one of the areas where Canadian and American law differs.

You are correct that an honest but mistaken belief that a statement is true provides limited protection in Canada if the other elements of qualified privilege can be made out.  But I believe the situation is quite different in the US where an honest but mistaken belief provides much more protection.  Which explains a bit why you see so many more false attacks being made against character down south.

Not exactly - the "honest but mistaken belief" defence (Or rather, that the defendant had not acted with "actual malice") only applies In the US where the target is a public figure. If the target is Joe or Jane Q. Public, that defence doesn't work, and an honest but mistaken belief can be libellous if it is careless/negligent - see Gertz v. Robert Welsh, Inc. A state can't allow punitive damages without actual malice though.

https://injury.findlaw.com/torts-and-personal-injuries/defamation-law-the-basics.html
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Liep on October 29, 2020, 04:28:51 AM
Another beheading in France. :(

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54729957
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on October 29, 2020, 05:16:28 AM
 :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 29, 2020, 06:19:58 AM
Expect more particularly empty posturing by Jupiter anytime now.
Nice was already the target of one of the most lethal islamist terrorist attacks in 2016.
Some details are already showing up in French media.
Suspect was captured this time, usually not the case ,wounded by the local not national police; claims the attack and says his name is Brahim. A twenty-something it seems.

https://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/en-direct-nice-l-auteur-d-une-attaque-meurtriere-interpelle-20201029

Another attack thwarted in Avignon, perpetrator tried to attack policemen and was shot dead subsequently.

QuoteSelon des sources policières du Figaro, deux heures après l'attaque de la basilique de Notre-Dame de Nice, un homme a tenté d'attaquer des policiers à Avignon, dans le quartier de Montfavet. Il a été abattu par les forces de l'ordre vers 11h15.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on October 29, 2020, 06:20:58 AM
Not this shit again  :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 29, 2020, 06:31:26 AM
cultural enrichment it's called.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on October 29, 2020, 02:42:58 PM
Always sucks when the attackers are refugees.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 31, 2020, 05:38:52 PM
and another attack, this time an orthodox priest was attacked.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on October 31, 2020, 10:32:41 PM
Greek Orthodox.  Right after some posturing by Erdogan.  Coincidence?  I think not.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on October 31, 2020, 10:48:29 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 31, 2020, 05:38:52 PM
and another attack, this time an orthodox priest was attacked.

Glad he wasn't killed.

But it doesn't look like they know who shot him at this point :hmm:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 01, 2020, 04:57:38 AM
Quote from: viper37 on October 31, 2020, 10:32:41 PM
Greek Orthodox.  Right after some posturing by Erdogan.  Coincidence?  I think not.

Err, how often does Erdogan posture?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on November 01, 2020, 11:30:43 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on November 01, 2020, 04:57:38 AM
Quote from: viper37 on October 31, 2020, 10:32:41 PM
Greek Orthodox.  Right after some posturing by Erdogan.  Coincidence?  I think not.

Err, how often does Erdogan posture?
very often,but he did target France specifically over the Greece issues and the caricatures.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Solmyr on November 02, 2020, 04:39:21 AM
Gone are the days of the French-Ottoman alliance.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on November 02, 2020, 02:54:17 PM
There's been a shooting near Schwedenplatz in 1st District. Supposedly 1 dead, several injured. A synagogue is nearby, but there's conflicting reports whether it was the target, or who the perp/targets were in the shooting.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 02, 2020, 03:04:27 PM
Radical Schwedes perhaps.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on November 02, 2020, 03:13:45 PM
Police say it seems to be a mass shooting or terror attack. Situation remains unclear. Rumors of a suicide bomber and/or an explosion.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on November 02, 2020, 03:16:04 PM
Oskar Deutsch, head of the Jewish community, says the synagogue and attached offices were closed and nobody there, so he can't confirm whether they were targeted.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on November 02, 2020, 03:29:13 PM
Shootings in Vienna are quite rare. Usually it's part of gang violence. Police have created a a safety perimeter around the chunk of the Inner City, and apparently dozens of shots were fired, probably from semi automatic guns. One officer has been wounded. Police say one suspect is dead, another in custody. Reports of shooting further down Ringstraße near Hilton Hotel.

All in all, so far a lot of uncertainty and rumors, but nothing concrete.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on November 02, 2020, 03:41:16 PM
Early reports are that the attacker was a Turkish soldier who somehow became separated from the main body of Mehemed IV's army and had just arrived in Vienna after over 400 years of hitchhiking.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on November 02, 2020, 04:05:20 PM
Inner City still locked down by police. Several witnesses say that at least gunman walked down a street near Schwedenplatz, an area with many crowded bars and restaurants (Covid lockdown starts tomorrow), shooting into various establishments near the synagogue. Apparently police are still searching for attackers.

EDIT: one officer is dead. One attacker is confirmed arrested, one confirmed dead. But it appears police is still looking for suspects. There were rumors of a hostage situation, but those were not confirmed.

EDIT2: leader of the emergency medical services says there's multiple injured and dead, but they're still in the process of assessing the situation.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Liep on November 02, 2020, 04:19:23 PM
:(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on November 02, 2020, 04:23:53 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 02, 2020, 04:05:20 PM
Inner City still locked down by police. Several witnesses say that at least gunman walked down a street near Schwedenplatz, an area with many crowded bars and restaurants (Covid lockdown starts tomorrow), shooting into various establishments near the synagogue. Apparently police are still searching for attackers.

EDIT: one officer is dead. One attacker is confirmed arrested, one confirmed dead. But it appears police is still looking for suspects. There were rumors of a hostage situation, but those were not confirmed.

EDIT2: leader of the emergency medical services says there's multiple injured and dead, but they're still in the process of assessing the situation.

Jesus. What a mess. Killing a cop? I wouldn't want to be those assholes when they catch the rest of them.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on November 02, 2020, 04:24:19 PM
This is very likely the biggest attack since the 1985 attack on the Vienna airport at Schwechat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_Rome_and_Vienna_airport_attacks
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on November 02, 2020, 04:30:15 PM
Official tweet update from Vienna police:
- shooting around Seitenstettergasse around 8 pm
- several attackers with rifles
- currently ca. 6 crime scenes
- 1 dead, several injured
- 1 attacker dead
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on November 02, 2020, 04:39:42 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on November 02, 2020, 04:39:21 AM
Gone are the days of the French-Ottoman alliance.

The section of the Grey Wolves (islamist extreme right wing) in France is to be banned soon, according to the French government, as well.
Following clashes with the police and rioting against Armenians near Lyon.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on November 02, 2020, 04:50:31 PM
Mariahilfer Straße, the main shopping street between 6th and 7th district is locked down. The district mayor of the 7th has advised people to stay indoors. Rumors of a hostage taking.

Still not many confirmed news.

EDIT: The Jagdkommando (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagdkommando) of the military has been activated to support the police.

I've not seen anything like this in Vienna in the 15+ years I've been here.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on November 02, 2020, 05:52:57 PM
 :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on November 02, 2020, 06:10:14 PM
 :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on November 02, 2020, 06:12:39 PM
Casualty figures are becoming clearer:
- 1 dead civilian
- 15 injured civilians (7 severely)
- 1 dead attacker (assault rifle found on him)
- 1 wounded police officer (earlier reports of him being dead were exaggerated)

Manhunt for unknown number of additional attackers continues. Overall I guess we got lucky. It was a warm day in Vienna, it's the last day of open bars and restaurants before the lockdown, and the attack started in the bermuda triangle party area of Vienna where places were crowded, sitting inside and outside, so there was a potential for much higher casualty numbers.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on November 03, 2020, 12:30:03 AM
Number of deaths has risen during the night. We're at two dead civilians, the dead attacker, and one dead police officer. Over a dozen wounded.

Police said in a press conference just now the police daid that the killed attacker was an IS sympathizer. He was wearing a pretend suicide vest. They're still searching for one or more additional attackers. School is suspended in Vienna and people are advised to stay indoors and avoid the 1st District if possible.

Whether or not there's additional attackers is unclear, police say they can't rule it out and didn't confirm.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 03, 2020, 12:38:41 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 02, 2020, 06:12:39 PM
- 1 wounded police officer (earlier reports of him being dead were exaggerated)

He got better.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on November 03, 2020, 02:39:00 AM
Interesting the contrast in live coverage yesterday.

ORF (fee financed public TV) and Puls24 (a young news station) followed police requests to not share any of the videos/images making the rounds of social media. They covered things calmly, marking rumors as such, focused on facts and avoided speculation. Live news tickers from "serious" papers like Standard (left), Presse (conservative), Kurier (center-right) did the same.

Heute, OE24 and Krone, on the tabloid end, shared images and videos, fired rumors and speculated wildly. OE24 is especially criticized for repeatedly showing an uncensored video of a person being shot repeatedly point blank without commentary/warning while presenting rumors as facts and drawing wild conclusions, completely focusing on the spectacle and sensationalism.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on November 03, 2020, 04:54:06 AM
Details about the attacker. 20 years old, born in Austria, had Austrian and North Macedonian (ex-FYROM) passports.

In April 2019 he was sentenced to 22 months in jail under youth criminal law, because he and a friend had traveled to the Turkish/Syrian border to be trained by the IS. They left when they realized that fighting in a civil war is not as fun as it sounds. Supposedly he was constantly arguing with his parents and had "gone to the wrong mosque" where he was indoctrinated and portrayed his leaving as a way "to have his own apartment and income" - instead he was housed in a "rat hole without running water."

He was released on probation in December. He claimed in court that they had abandoned their Islamist ways. I guess one of them was lying and judges/the law might not be as lenient in future.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on November 03, 2020, 05:00:29 AM
Chancellor Kurz surprisingly conciliatory - his rhetoric usually sounds different. Says in a speech that this was an attack on our free society and peaceful co-existence, but that it would not split society. That the enemy are terrorists, not members of a religion. That it's not a fight between Christians and Muslims, or Austrians and Immigrants, but between civilization and barbary.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on November 03, 2020, 05:12:14 AM
In one of the videos being shared someone shouts from a window "Schleich di, du oaschloch!" at the attacker ("Fuck off, asshole!") which is widely agreed to be the appropriate Viennese response.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on November 03, 2020, 08:34:35 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 03, 2020, 05:00:29 AM
Chancellor Kurz surprisingly conciliatory - his rhetoric usually sounds different. Says in a speech that this was an attack on our free society and peaceful co-existence, but that it would not split society. That the enemy are terrorists, not members of a religion. That it's not a fight between Christians and Muslims, or Austrians and Immigrants, but between civilization and barbary.

a bit naive that
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on November 03, 2020, 08:45:48 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on November 03, 2020, 08:34:35 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 03, 2020, 05:00:29 AM
Chancellor Kurz surprisingly conciliatory - his rhetoric usually sounds different. Says in a speech that this was an attack on our free society and peaceful co-existence, but that it would not split society. That the enemy are terrorists, not members of a religion. That it's not a fight between Christians and Muslims, or Austrians and Immigrants, but between civilization and barbary.

a bit naive that

Yeah, a lot of Austrians aren't that civilized.


Just ask Syt.  ;)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on November 03, 2020, 09:22:11 AM
Police confirm that their downed officer was brought to safety by two Austrians of Turkish descent (both MMA fighters). Here's a (subtitled) video of one of them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhSGe3ze1gQ
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on November 13, 2020, 02:45:52 PM
Apparently a hostage situation at Ubisoft Montreal?
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1327331201976295430?s=20

:unsure:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on November 13, 2020, 03:08:59 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 13, 2020, 02:45:52 PM
Apparently a hostage situation at Ubisoft Montreal?
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1327331201976295430?s=20

:unsure:
News says it's in the same building, but it might not be UBI Soft.  Newschannel talk about armed robery.  Maybe he wanted an autographed copy of Assassin's Creed Valhalla and they said no?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on November 13, 2020, 06:36:35 PM
Apparently, that was someone's idea of a joke.  I'm sure the UBI Soft employees stuck on the roof in that chilly automn weather (about -2) were all laughing.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on November 13, 2020, 07:49:41 PM
That's not funny.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Grey Fox on November 13, 2020, 08:45:34 PM
It made for a tense afternoon, especially for the 15 minutes I waited on news of my step brother.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: celedhring on November 14, 2020, 02:38:09 AM
Here I was hoping the ransom would be the immediate release of all the rights to the Might & Magic franchise.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on December 01, 2020, 08:33:54 AM
Someone just drove a car into a crowd in Trier. edit: Two dead :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Zanza on December 01, 2020, 01:20:18 PM
Quote from: Maladict on December 01, 2020, 08:33:54 AM
Someone just drove a car into a crowd in Trier. edit: Two dead :(
4 dead now, lots of hurt persons. The perpetrator is a 51 year old German who was born and lived in Trier. Drove under the influence with 0.14 BAC. No apparent political or religious motive. The prosecutor has sent him for psychiatric evaluation for now.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on December 01, 2020, 01:32:23 PM
So it was just a drunk driving situation?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on December 01, 2020, 01:53:25 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 01, 2020, 01:32:23 PM
So it was just a drunk driving situation?

It seems to have been intentional, but not politically motivated.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on December 24, 2020, 09:15:12 AM
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/national-international/fbi-white-supremacists-plotted-attack-on-us-power-grid/2429789/

QuoteFBI Says White Supremacists Plotted Attack on US Power Grid

The Ohio teen leading the "Light's Out" plot planned to carry it out in the summer of 2021, the affidavit states

White supremacists plotted to attack power stations in the southeastern U.S., and an Ohio teenager who allegedly shared the plan said he wanted the group to be "operational" on a fast-tracked timeline if President Donald Trump were to lose his re-election bid, the FBI alleges in an affidavit that was mistakenly unsealed.

The teen was in a text group with more than a dozen people in the fall of 2019 when he introduced the idea of saving money to buy a ranch where they could participate in militant training, according to the affidavit, which was filed under seal along with a search warrant application in Wisconsin's Eastern U.S. District Court in March. The documents were inadvertently unsealed last week before the mistake was discovered and they were quickly sealed again.

The teenager wanted the group to be "operational" by the 2024 election because he believed it was likely a Democrat would win, but "the timeline for being operational would accelerate if President Trump lost the 2020 election," according to the affidavit. An informant told investigators that the teen "definitely wanted to be operational for violence, but also activism."

The Ohio teen, who was 17 at the time, also shared plans with a smaller group about a plot to create a power outage by shooting rifle rounds into power stations in the southeastern U.S. The teen called the plot "Light's Out" and there were plans to carry it out in the summer of 2021, the affidavit states.

One group member, a Texas native who was a Purdue University student at the time, allegedly sent the informant a text saying "leaving the power off would wake people up to the harsh reality of life by wreaking havoc across the nation."

The affidavit identifies three people by name and references others who were allegedly communicating with or part of the group. The Associated Press is not naming any of the individuals because charges have not been publicly filed.

None of the three men immediately replied to emails, texts or voicemails left Tuesday seeking comment. The father of one of the men had no comment.

Federal prosecutors in Ohio are taking the lead on the case. Jennifer Thornton, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney's Office in the Southern District of Ohio, said she couldn't provide additional information because the investigation is ongoing, but "we want to emphasize that there is no imminent public safety threat related to this matter."

The affidavit details an investigation into group members, who allegedly share white supremacist ideology. The document outlines how they communicated over encrypted messaging applications before three of them eventually met up in person. They also allegedly shared recommended reading on white supremacist literature, required a "uniform" to symbolize their commitment and talked about making weapons. The affidavit says the Ohio teen put Nazi flags in his room, but his mother told him to take them down.

Some group members also indicated that they were prepared to die for their beliefs. One man from Oshkosh, Wisconsin, allegedly told the Ohio teen: "I can say with absolute certainty that I will die for this effort. I swear it on my life." The teen replied: "I can say the same," the court documents state.

According to the affidavit, the Wisconsin man also told an undercover FBI employee in February that the group was interested in taking "direct action" against the system and said, "If you truly want a fascist society I will put in the effort to work with you but recruitment is long and not going to be easy."

He then outlined a "radicalization" process to instill a "revolutionary mindset" which ended with recruits proving they are more than just talk. He allegedly wrote that if it seemed too tough, "I recommend leaving now, we are extremely serious about our goals and ambitions."

The affidavit says the Ohio teen also spoke numerous times about creating Nazi militant cells around the country like those of the neo-Nazi network the Atomwaffen Division.

Atomwaffen Division members have promoted "accelerationism," a fringe philosophy espousing mass violence to fuel society's collapse. More than a dozen people linked to the group or an offshoot called the Feuerkrieg Division have been charged with serious crimes in recent years.

This investigation apparently began after a fourth man, from Canada, was stopped while trying to enter the U.S. The man told border agents that he was going to visit the Ohio teen, whom he had recently met over an encrypted app, according to the affidavit. Agents found Nazi and white supremacist images on his phone.

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on December 25, 2020, 10:13:53 AM
Car explosion in Nashville.  No victims, but it seems like an intentional act. :unsure:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on December 25, 2020, 02:55:09 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/12/25/nashville-explosion-christmas/

QuoteRV that exploded in Nashville broadcast a message warning of imminent blast, police say

FBI, ATF leading investigation; three people were hospitalized with noncritical injuries

The recreational vehicle that exploded in downtown Nashville Christmas morning broadcast a message from a loudspeaker warning of an imminent blast before it detonated, according to police, who called the incident an "intentional act."

The explosion in the city's Arts District destroyed storefronts, scattered ash and debris through the streets, and sent at least three people to the hospital with noncritical injuries, police said.

In a video posted on social media, which the Washington Post has not independently verified, a voice can be heard saying, "This area must be evacuated now. If you can hear this message, evacuate now." That was followed by the sounds of an explosion, and the video of the street scene turned to a blur.

Nashville Police spokesman Don Aaron told reporters that "there were announcements coming from the RV, that's the extent of what we can say at this point." He said that police took the warning seriously, evacuated people from a residential area, and that "we think lives were saved by those officers."

Three people were injured, including one officer who was knocked off his feet, Aaron said. He said "we know of no other imminent danger to the city," adding that bomb-sniffing dogs were combing the area as a precaution.

Several of the buildings have structural damage, officials said. Police do not know whether anyone was in the RV when it exploded, "so I can't tell you at this point whether there is a fatality in this scenario," Aaron said.

Supervisory Special Agent Joel E. Siskovic said the FBI is leading the investigation, working with state and local authorities. He declined to say whether there were any suspects.

"The main thing right now is public safety to make sure that everyone in the surrounding area is accounted for and, at the same time, ensuring that the city itself is safe from any other potential incident," said Michael Knight, a spokesman for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in Nashville, which is also probing the incident.

Investigators are working to create a timeline of events both before and after the explosion, Knight said.

Authorities responded to the area around 6 a.m. local time after receiving a report of shots fired on Second Avenue North.

When they arrived, Aaron said, they didn't see any immediate evidence of gunshots but encountered a "suspicious" RV parked near an AT&T building and called a bomb squad to assist.

Officers went door to door, telling residents to evacuate, even turning around one man who was out walking his dog, Aaron said. Moments later, around 6:30 a.m., the RV detonated near the intersection of Second Avenue North and Commerce Street, smashing windows, signs and garage doors in the city's Arts District and sending a ball of bright orange flames into the sky.

The police department's hazardous devices unit was en route when the explosion occurred, Aaron said.

"We do believe the explosion was an intentional act," Aaron said. "This investigation will be taking place throughout the day."

Three people were taken to hospitals, Nashville Fire Department spokesman Joseph Pleasant said.

"None of those transports at this point are critical," he said. "We don't have any significant injuries to report."

Photos and videos from the scene showed shattered glass, strips of metal, tree branches and other debris littering the street, which is home to office buildings and a row of bars, restaurants and nightclubs.

"We have no indication there are secondary devices. However, out of an abundance of caution, we have a number of dogs that are conducting sweeps of that immediate downtown area at present," Aaron said. He added that police would search downtown buildings, focusing on structures along Second Avenue, to ensure nobody was hurt inside.

Nashville Mayor John Cooper said he had toured the site, describing broken glass and insulation having been blown into the trees.

"It looks like a bomb went off on Second Avenue," he said, while cautioning people against drawing conclusions prematurely.

"This is not how anybody wanted to spend Christmas morning," he told reporters. "We are very lucky that there were not more injuries."

"One more event in Nashville's 2020," he added.

The explosion was felt at nearby residential facilities, including a hostel and a condo building called the Exchange Lofts. However, due to the coronavirus pandemic and Christmas, there were far fewer people at those buildings than usual.

Windows and doors were blown out at the hostel, a low-cost residence for travelers, and the handful of guests were evacuated. At the upscale Exchange Lofts, where condos are typically owned as second homes by business executives, the impact of the explosion was recorded by a Nest security camera in a unit owned by music executive Aaron Trevethan.

In the video, the tranquil scene of couches and chairs arrayed around a flat-screen television is suddenly interrupted by sounds of a blast, which sent bright flashes of light through the windows, caused debris to fall from the ceiling, and resulted in a swaying effect captured by the camera.

Trevethan, who was at his California home when he was alerted early Christmas morning about the blast, said it is hard to tell the extent of damage from the video because "everything shook so bad."

Tennessee Gov. Bill Lee (R) said in a tweet that he would "supply all of the resources needed to determine what happened and who was responsible." He thanked first responders and called on Tennesseans to join him and his wife "in praying for those who were injured."

The Justice Department said in a statement that acting attorney general Jeff Rosen had been briefed on the incident and had "directed that all DOJ resources be made available to assist in the investigation."

White House spokesman Judd Deere told The Washington Post in an email that President Trump has been briefed and is receiving updates. "The President is grateful for the incredible first responders and praying for those who were injured," Deere wrote.

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on December 25, 2020, 03:17:47 PM
Quote from: DGuller on December 25, 2020, 10:13:53 AM
Car explosion in Nashville.  No victims, but it seems like an intentional act. :unsure:

DG have you considered giving up on doing your own car maintenance?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on December 25, 2020, 07:37:54 PM
Police are saying they found human remains at the site of the blast.  I really hope this wasn't political, things are tense enough as it is.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: jimmy olsen on December 25, 2020, 07:47:13 PM
Could be the body of the perpetrator
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Caliga on December 26, 2020, 09:55:40 AM
It seems likely to me it was a suicide bombing... they have released video of the RV as the location it was parked at is in full view of cameras, but no video of anyone exiting the RV.  Not sure why they would be holding that back if they had it?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on December 26, 2020, 10:22:20 AM
Quote from: Caliga on December 26, 2020, 09:55:40 AM
It seems likely to me it was a suicide bombing... they have released video of the RV as the location it was parked at is in full view of cameras, but no video of anyone exiting the RV.  Not sure why they would be holding that back if they had it?

They're having difficulty getting their internet meme's sorted, hard to tie-in liberal urban greens with an exploding SUV.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on December 26, 2020, 10:59:11 AM
Quote from: Caliga on December 26, 2020, 09:55:40 AM
It seems likely to me it was a suicide bombing... they have released video of the RV as the location it was parked at is in full view of cameras, but no video of anyone exiting the RV.  Not sure why they would be holding that back if they had it?

Well, if they are holding in back they might not want to have public out searching for this guy.  Hopefully it is a suicide, some one fired by AT@T and decided to the noble thing in blowing up the building but trying to hurt anyone in the process.  Much better than a mad shooter.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on December 26, 2020, 11:07:52 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 26, 2020, 10:59:11 AM
Quote from: Caliga on December 26, 2020, 09:55:40 AM
It seems likely to me it was a suicide bombing... they have released video of the RV as the location it was parked at is in full view of cameras, but no video of anyone exiting the RV.  Not sure why they would be holding that back if they had it?

Well, if they are holding in back they might not want to have public out searching for this guy.  Hopefully it is a suicide, some one fired by AT@T and decided to the noble thing in blowing up the building but trying to hurt anyone in the process.  Much better than a mad shooter.

I done know about that, but given the various comms knocked out it could be a targeted attack at local state infrastructure?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on December 26, 2020, 11:14:08 AM
I dunno.  It looks like an office building.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on December 26, 2020, 11:19:23 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on December 26, 2020, 11:14:08 AM
I dunno.  It looks like an office building.

Raz, this bbc item had some details, still could just be luck;
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55448832 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55448832)

Quote
The van blew up outside a building belonging to the telecoms giant AT&T, which also occupies an office tower nearby.

Buildings suffered structural damage, windows were blown out, and trees were felled. Videos posted on social media showed water from damaged pipes running down walls as alarms howled in the background.

Police emergency systems were knocked out across much of Tennessee. Flights out of Nashville International Airport were briefly halted as a result of damage done by the blast but have now resumed.

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on December 26, 2020, 09:25:14 PM
Well, if were targeting communication infrastructure it would be so that you could do something that you couldn't do with the infrastructure intact.  Since there hasn't been a follow up attack or any other exploitation of time when the communications were disrupted it is probably safe to assume that wasn't the reason.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Caliga on December 26, 2020, 09:55:06 PM
Quote from: Caliga on December 26, 2020, 09:55:40 AM
It seems likely to me it was a suicide bombing...
I was right. :sleep:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 28, 2020, 03:49:56 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaQKcXuU-k8

Dude identified.  Possibility he was a 5G kook.  That would explain the AT&T connection.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on January 24, 2021, 10:14:51 AM
Driver intentionally drives through crowd in Tucson  :(
https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/article248726860.html
The video is pretty brutal. You can't see any details but you can see the SUV clearly run over people.
https://twitter.com/jasonjgauthier/status/1353185183512465410
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on January 24, 2021, 10:21:43 AM
What the fuck?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on January 24, 2021, 10:29:34 AM
Wait, that was a police car?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: 11B4V on January 24, 2021, 11:05:26 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 24, 2021, 10:14:51 AM
Driver intentionally drives through crowd in Tucson  :(
https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/article248726860.html
The video is pretty brutal. You can't see any details but you can see the SUV clearly run over people.
https://twitter.com/jasonjgauthier/status/1353185183512465410

Tacoma, WA
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on January 24, 2021, 11:10:42 AM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 24, 2021, 11:05:26 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 24, 2021, 10:14:51 AM
Driver intentionally drives through crowd in Tucson  :(
https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/article248726860.html
The video is pretty brutal. You can't see any details but you can see the SUV clearly run over people.
https://twitter.com/jasonjgauthier/status/1353185183512465410

Tacoma, WA

Oops, you're right.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on January 24, 2021, 11:11:06 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on January 24, 2021, 10:14:51 AM
Driver intentionally drives through crowd in Tacoma  :(
https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/article248726860.html
The video is pretty brutal. You can't see any details but you can see the SUV clearly run over people.
https://twitter.com/jasonjgauthier/status/1353185183512465410
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on January 24, 2021, 12:34:35 PM
Quote from: Syt on January 24, 2021, 10:29:34 AM
Wait, that was a police car?

Yes it was, no fatalities fortunately.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Threviel on March 04, 2021, 05:08:41 AM
Something happened in Vetlanda, Sweden yesterday. An Afghan youth with a criminal past went haywire and stabbed 7 people before police shot him. No-one seems to have died yet, but the situation is critical for a few of the stabbed.

Initial reports claimed terrorism, but the reasons of the perp is not yet clear.

A few weeks ago a masked guy went into my old High School in Varberg carrying swords and other weapons, no-one was injured but that was possibly just luck. In that case a mentally ill person affected by the Swedish equivalent of Qanon, retards on the right.

We are building a cold and hard society without any kind of safety net for people with social issues. The guy in Varberg had no family, little contact with welfare and was more or less left alone in a shitty apartment with a computer and all the time in the world. I don't know, but I expect that the Afghan dude has more or less the same story. Alone, physical needs satisfied, nothing to do and all the time in the world to fall into the hands of propaganda. No wonder that a few of all the thousands act out in this manner.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on March 04, 2021, 05:13:22 AM
Stabby McStab and BladyMcBlade don't seem like people you want to be friends with. Maybe if you're a youth with a criminal past you should still be serving jail time and not be out stabbing.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Threviel on March 04, 2021, 05:18:10 AM
No, they seem like people that need professional help and care.

The Swede had served time for arson, which is not in any way a minor crime. He should have gotten help after that with his psychological issues.

The Afghan had a criminal past, he should have been sent back. There are lots of law abiding refugees that the resources could be better spent on.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on March 04, 2021, 05:27:46 AM
Yep. Governments are way too slow to wake up to the thread of far right indoctrination and doing something about it.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on March 04, 2021, 06:21:07 AM
Quote from: Threviel on March 04, 2021, 05:08:41 AM
We are building a cold and hard society without any kind of safety net for people with social issues. The guy in Varberg had no family, little contact with welfare and was more or less left alone in a shitty apartment with a computer and all the time in the world. I don't know, but I expect that the Afghan dude has more or less the same story. Alone, physical needs satisfied, nothing to do and all the time in the world to fall into the hands of propaganda. No wonder that a few of all the thousands act out in this manner.

While I get how such circumstances might make you care less about people, feels a little odd to then have that turn into active dislike and aggression.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Threviel on March 04, 2021, 08:17:28 AM
Yes, it is a bit odd to go on a murder spree.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on March 04, 2021, 09:57:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 04, 2021, 06:21:07 AM
Quote from: Threviel on March 04, 2021, 05:08:41 AM
We are building a cold and hard society without any kind of safety net for people with social issues. The guy in Varberg had no family, little contact with welfare and was more or less left alone in a shitty apartment with a computer and all the time in the world. I don't know, but I expect that the Afghan dude has more or less the same story. Alone, physical needs satisfied, nothing to do and all the time in the world to fall into the hands of propaganda. No wonder that a few of all the thousands act out in this manner.

While I get how such circumstances might make you care less about people, feels a little odd to then have that turn into active dislike and aggression.
Not directly, but being isolated will make it likely for you to fall into some rabbit hole.  Once you fall into a rabbit hole, it's a matter of luck as to what insanity it will lead you to.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on March 04, 2021, 11:24:59 AM
Tell me about it.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on March 04, 2021, 11:34:21 AM
Quote from: Threviel on March 04, 2021, 05:18:10 AM
No, they seem like people that need professional help and care.

The Swede had served time for arson, which is not in any way a minor crime. He should have gotten help after that with his psychological issues.

The Afghan had a criminal past, he should have been sent back. There are lots of law abiding refugees that the resources could be better spent on.

Languish might be interested to know that the Afghan was shot in the leg by the cops, and not shot 24 times in the chest. :)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 04, 2021, 11:38:01 AM
Do Swedish cops have bad aim or something?  :huh:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 04, 2021, 11:43:45 AM
Quote from: The Brain on March 04, 2021, 11:34:21 AM
Quote from: Threviel on March 04, 2021, 05:18:10 AM
No, they seem like people that need professional help and care.

The Swede had served time for arson, which is not in any way a minor crime. He should have gotten help after that with his psychological issues.

The Afghan had a criminal past, he should have been sent back. There are lots of law abiding refugees that the resources could be better spent on.

Languish might be interested to know that the Afghan was shot in the leg by the cops, and not shot 24 times in the chest. :)

Did they aim for the leg by the way?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on March 04, 2021, 11:44:20 AM
:mad:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: PDH on March 04, 2021, 12:33:59 PM
Quote from: The Brain on March 04, 2021, 05:13:22 AM
Stabby McStab and BladyMcBlade don't seem like people you want to be friends with. Maybe if you're a youth with a criminal past you should still be serving jail time and not be out stabbing.

Maybe we could group the stabbers together into groups where they could all be friends since the share common interests.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on March 05, 2021, 06:36:14 AM
Quote from: PDH on March 04, 2021, 12:33:59 PM
Maybe we could group the stabbers together into groups where they could all be friends since the share common interests.

We could call that a Thunderdome.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tonitrus on March 05, 2021, 08:30:24 AM
Quote from: grumbler on March 05, 2021, 06:36:14 AM
Quote from: PDH on March 04, 2021, 12:33:59 PM
Maybe we could group the stabbers together into groups where they could all be friends since the share common interests.

We could call that a Thunderdome.

Not with groups.  Only two men enter.  :mad:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on March 05, 2021, 10:48:49 AM
One couple leaves.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Oexmelin on March 17, 2021, 11:18:26 AM
Nothing here about the Atlanta shootings? 8 dead. Suspected hate crime.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/16/us/metro-atlanta-shootings/index.html
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 17, 2021, 11:23:57 AM
Someone didn't get a happy ending.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on March 17, 2021, 11:27:42 AM
The suspect claims it wasn't about race, but rather that he has a sex addiction.  I don't know what to say about that.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on March 17, 2021, 11:39:45 AM
I guess if he was addicted to sex, had a preference for Korean sex workers, and acted out of sexual frustration then it'd be a terrorist act driven by misogyny, but with racial elements.

As opposed to if he hated Asians and decided to take it out on sex workers, in which case it'd be a terrorist act driven by racism, but with misogynist elements.

I don't know, does that type of distinction make a difference in a legal context? Because it doesn't make him any less shitty IMO.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 17, 2021, 12:03:31 PM
Agreed. I'm not sure it makes a huge amount of difference whether he seems to have been mainly a racist or mainly a misogynist. Perhaps it makes a difference under US hate crime laws? :mellow:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on March 17, 2021, 12:27:05 PM
Not all hate crimes are terrorism.  Not all terrorist acts are hate crimes.  Conflating the two adds nothing to our understanding and just confuses the issue.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on March 17, 2021, 12:52:19 PM
Statement by police official:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1372203730481864713

"He was pretty much fed up, and kinda at the end of his rope, and yesterday was a really bad day for him, and this is what he did."
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on March 17, 2021, 12:55:12 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 17, 2021, 11:39:45 AM
I guess if he was addicted to sex, had a preference for Korean sex workers, and acted out of sexual frustration then it'd be a terrorist act driven by misogyny, but with racial elements.

As opposed to if he hated Asians and decided to take it out on sex workers, in which case it'd be a terrorist act driven by racism, but with misogynist elements.

I don't know, does that type of distinction make a difference in a legal context? Because it doesn't make him any less shitty IMO.

Or those were the only sex workers he knew about.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on March 17, 2021, 01:14:16 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 17, 2021, 12:52:19 PM
Statement by police official:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1372203730481864713

"He was pretty much fed up, and kinda at the end of his rope, and yesterday was a really bad day for him, and this is what he did."

Just had a bad day, murdered a few people, you know how it is. Could've happened to anyone, really.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Habbaku on March 17, 2021, 01:18:53 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on March 17, 2021, 01:14:16 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 17, 2021, 12:52:19 PM
Statement by police official:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1372203730481864713

"He was pretty much fed up, and kinda at the end of his rope, and yesterday was a really bad day for him, and this is what he did."

Just had a bad day, murdered a few people, you know how it is. Could've happened to anyone, really.

Watching the clip, it makes it seem to me more like the police are trying to establish that, no, he wasn't insane and he understood what he was doing so that he can't use that as a defense?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on March 17, 2021, 01:21:25 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on March 17, 2021, 01:18:53 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on March 17, 2021, 01:14:16 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 17, 2021, 12:52:19 PM
Statement by police official:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1372203730481864713

"He was pretty much fed up, and kinda at the end of his rope, and yesterday was a really bad day for him, and this is what he did."

Just had a bad day, murdered a few people, you know how it is. Could've happened to anyone, really.

Watching the clip, it makes it seem to me more like the police are trying to establish that, no, he wasn't insane and he understood what he was doing so that he can't use that as a defense?

Gotcha, I didn't see the clip yet.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on March 17, 2021, 10:29:09 PM
My mom always has MSNBC on and so I catch snippets from that occasionally, and frankly it's weird right now.  When this recent attack on the message parlor gals occurred I certainly thought it was possible that it could be another deranged Trump supporter inspired by Trump's rhetoric.  MSNBC openly speculated about that scenario, but when the evidence came out that this wasn't the case they kept talking like it was.  Maybe they have information they haven't revealed yet, and it is possible that new information will come out to change the narrative, but right now we don't have evidence that this is some sort of political act.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 18, 2021, 06:21:33 AM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on March 17, 2021, 01:14:16 PM
Quote from: Syt on March 17, 2021, 12:52:19 PM
Statement by police official:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1372203730481864713

"He was pretty much fed up, and kinda at the end of his rope, and yesterday was a really bad day for him, and this is what he did."

Just had a bad day, murdered a few people, you know how it is. Could've happened to anyone, really.

I don't like Mondays.  :sleep:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on March 19, 2021, 11:03:59 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 17, 2021, 10:29:09 PM
My mom always has MSNBC on and so I catch snippets from that occasionally, and frankly it's weird right now.  When this recent attack on the message parlor gals occurred I certainly thought it was possible that it could be another deranged Trump supporter inspired by Trump's rhetoric.  MSNBC openly speculated about that scenario, but when the evidence came out that this wasn't the case they kept talking like it was.  Maybe they have information they haven't revealed yet, and it is possible that new information will come out to change the narrative, but right now we don't have evidence that this is some sort of political act.
I think the coverage of this case is a classic example of how cancel culture makes everyone concerned about saying things carefully rather than objectively.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on March 19, 2021, 03:13:42 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 17, 2021, 11:39:45 AM
I guess if he was addicted to sex, had a preference for Korean sex workers, and acted out of sexual frustration then it'd be a terrorist act driven by misogyny, but with racial elements.

As opposed to if he hated Asians and decided to take it out on sex workers, in which case it'd be a terrorist act driven by racism, but with misogynist elements.

I don't know, does that type of distinction make a difference in a legal context? Because it doesn't make him any less shitty IMO.
He might be trying to plead some form of insanity defense.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: merithyn on March 19, 2021, 03:27:54 PM
As I understood it, he was trying to save other men from the temptation of sex workers. However, these were not sex workers.

Yet another example of men blaming women for their inability to keep it in their pants. Bet he was a Christian fundy.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on March 19, 2021, 03:50:15 PM
Quote from: merithyn on March 19, 2021, 03:27:54 PM
As I understood it, he was trying to save other men from the temptation of sex workers. However, these were not sex workers.

Yet another example of men blaming women for their inability to keep it in their pants. Bet he was a Christian fundy.


He is.  This does look like a case of misogynism.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on March 19, 2021, 05:47:14 PM
This question has come up in conversation elsewhere - has it been established whether the massage parlors in Atlanta were places that provided sexual services or whether they were just straight up massage establishments?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maximus on March 19, 2021, 06:09:38 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 19, 2021, 05:47:14 PM
This question has come up in conversation elsewhere - has it been established whether the massage parlors in Atlanta were places that provided sexual services or whether they were just straight up massage establishments?

I don't think it matters. Many people will assume they were and many more will blame this act on sex workers and use this to further victimize them.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on March 19, 2021, 06:45:11 PM
Quote from: Maximus on March 19, 2021, 06:09:38 PM
I don't think it matters. Many people will assume they were and many more will blame this act on sex workers and use this to further victimize them.

I think it does, if for no other reason than the victims deserve to be recognized as individuals and not just subsumed into a larger debate about issues for people to project whatever they want onto.

To me it seems problematic as hell to refuse to acknowledge whether they were sex workers for fear that their deaths would be devalued if they were... but maybe you're right and it's the least bad option available. But that choice is obviously predicated on concluding that the lives of sex workers are worth less, so best not touch it, and that's pretty fucked up IMO.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 19, 2021, 06:45:44 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 19, 2021, 05:47:14 PM
This question has come up in conversation elsewhere - has it been established whether the massage parlors in Atlanta were places that provided sexual services or whether they were just straight up massage establishments?

"Young's Asian Massage" and "Gold Massage Spa" sound very much like rub and tugs to me.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maximus on March 19, 2021, 07:01:26 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 19, 2021, 06:45:11 PM
But that choice is obviously predicated on concluding that the lives of sex workers are worth less
I would say it's predicated on the narrative being that the lives of sex workers are worth less.
Quote from: Jacob on March 19, 2021, 06:45:11 PM
and that's pretty fucked up IMO.
no argument there.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on March 19, 2021, 07:54:04 PM
Quote from: Maximus on March 19, 2021, 07:01:26 PM
I would say it's predicated on the narrative being that the lives of sex workers are worth less.

Fair.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on March 19, 2021, 09:53:05 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 19, 2021, 05:47:14 PM
This question has come up in conversation elsewhere - has it been established whether the massage parlors in Atlanta were places that provided sexual services or whether they were just straight up massage establishments?


I thought you knew!  You were the one to bring it up.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on March 19, 2021, 10:26:33 PM
Quote from: merithyn on March 19, 2021, 03:27:54 PM
As I understood it, he was trying to save other men from the temptation of sex workers. However, these were not sex workers.

Yet another example of men blaming women for their inability to keep it in their pants. Bet he was a Christian fundy.

Ding ding. Purity culture strikes again.

Fucking horrible.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on March 19, 2021, 10:56:32 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 19, 2021, 09:53:05 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 19, 2021, 05:47:14 PM
This question has come up in conversation elsewhere - has it been established whether the massage parlors in Atlanta were places that provided sexual services or whether they were just straight up massage establishments?


I thought you knew!  You were the one to bring it up.

Yup, that was the impression I'd gathered from the reporting I'd seen and a bunch of the reactions I'd seen in various places. Then I took a moment to reflect and realized I haven't seen it stated one way or the other.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: merithyn on March 20, 2021, 08:04:53 AM
The mayor of Atlanta has stated that none of these establishments were under scrutiny by the police for illegal activities.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on March 22, 2021, 12:32:10 PM
Quote from: merithyn on March 20, 2021, 08:04:53 AM
The mayor of Atlanta has stated that none of these establishments were under scrutiny by the police for illegal activities.

While that is true, the reporting is also that the murderer had gone to two of the locations he attacked in the past.  And his former room mate said the murderer went to message parlors for sex.

The exploitation and trafficking of women who work in these places - and the men who abuse them is, I think an important part of the story.

As one of the advocates for those women pointed out:

QuoteYvonne Chen, an advocate for sex trafficking victims who works with Asian women who work at massage businesses, said not all of them are willing to provide sex to their clients, but those who refuse are often attacked by their customers.

"I don't think there's enough discussion of the violence that comes from the buyers," she said.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/03/18/us/atlanta-shootings-massage-spa


Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on March 22, 2021, 12:57:45 PM
Let's not call them sex workers until we actually find out they are sex workers.  I'd like more than the word of a former roommate of a lunatic in this sort of matter.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on March 22, 2021, 01:05:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2021, 12:57:45 PM
Let's not call them sex workers until we actually find out they are sex workers.  I'd like more than the word of a former roommate of a lunatic in this sort of matter.

The murderer's explanation to police for why he committed the murders is also consistent.  Part of the reason terrible abuses occur in the sex trade industry is that people are reluctant to call it what is.  Combine that reluctance with the assholes that get their jollies going there, and you get a pretty violent outcome.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Barrister on March 22, 2021, 01:17:58 PM
Quote from: merithyn on March 20, 2021, 08:04:53 AM
The mayor of Atlanta has stated that none of these establishments were under scrutiny by the police for illegal activities.

It's not unusual for certain jurisdictions to not enforce prostitution laws on locations that are otherwise co-operative and stay out of trouble.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on March 22, 2021, 03:20:33 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 22, 2021, 01:05:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2021, 12:57:45 PM
Let's not call them sex workers until we actually find out they are sex workers.  I'd like more than the word of a former roommate of a lunatic in this sort of matter.

The murderer's explanation to police for why he committed the murders is also consistent.  Part of the reason terrible abuses occur in the sex trade industry is that people are reluctant to call it what is.  Combine that reluctance with the assholes that get their jollies going there, and you get a pretty violent outcome.


Consistent with what?  What he told his roommate?  Terrible abuses exist in the sex trade industry because it is illegal.  If the people working at these businesses aren't sex workers I suspect they would not want to identified as such.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on March 22, 2021, 04:46:56 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2021, 03:20:33 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 22, 2021, 01:05:06 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2021, 12:57:45 PM
Let's not call them sex workers until we actually find out they are sex workers.  I'd like more than the word of a former roommate of a lunatic in this sort of matter.

The murderer's explanation to police for why he committed the murders is also consistent.  Part of the reason terrible abuses occur in the sex trade industry is that people are reluctant to call it what is.  Combine that reluctance with the assholes that get their jollies going there, and you get a pretty violent outcome.


Consistent with what?  What he told his roommate?  Terrible abuses exist in the sex trade industry because it is illegal.  If the people working at these businesses aren't sex workers I suspect they would not want to identified as such.

Consistent with the explanation he gave to police for why he committed the murders - to remove temptation - including his.

Whether or not the victims were sex trade workers, consider again what the message parlor worker advocate said:

Quotenot all of them are willing to provide sex to their clients, but those who refuse are often attacked by their customers.

"I don't think there's enough discussion of the violence that comes from the buyers," she said.

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on March 22, 2021, 04:58:42 PM
His statement to police is consistent with his statement to the police?

Quotenot all of them are willing to provide sex to their clients, but those who refuse are often attacked by their customers.

"I don't think there's enough discussion of the violence that comes from the buyers," she said.

:mellow:  You left out part of that sentence.

One of the women killed was a customer at the place.  She came with her husband.  Men do not typically bring their wives to brothels.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/03/18/us/atlanta-shootings-massage-spa

QuoteMario González and his wife Delaina Yaun ventured to Youngs Asian Massage near Acworth, Georgia, last week for a relaxing couples activity.

Yaun had just gotten off from work, and the two were happy about getting to unwind with a massage. As they received treatments in separate rooms, González heard the gunfire ring out.
"About an hour in, almost at the end, I heard the shots," he told the Spanish-language newspaper Mundo Hispánico."I didn't see anything. Only, I started to think it was in the room where my wife was."

The police later arrested the husband because this is Georgia and he was Mexican.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on March 22, 2021, 05:06:12 PM
 :huh:  The only part I left out was the description of the person who made the statement - which I identified in my post.

This is not a brothel. Please read what I posted more carefully, not all of them are willing to provide sex to their clients, but those who refuse are often attacked by their customers
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on March 22, 2021, 05:51:39 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 22, 2021, 12:32:10 PM
Quote from: merithyn on March 20, 2021, 08:04:53 AM
The mayor of Atlanta has stated that none of these establishments were under scrutiny by the police for illegal activities.

While that is true, the reporting is also that the murderer had gone to two of the locations he attacked in the past.  And his former room mate said the murderer went to message parlors for sex.

The exploitation and trafficking of women who work in these places - and the men who abuse them is, I think an important part of the story.

As one of the advocates for those women pointed out:

QuoteYvonne Chen, an advocate for sex trafficking victims who works with Asian women who work at massage businesses, said not all of them are willing to provide sex to their clients, but those who refuse are often attacked by their customers.

"I don't think there's enough discussion of the violence that comes from the buyers," she said.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/03/18/us/atlanta-shootings-massage-spa

A younger cousin of mine dreamed of making a career as a massage therapist.  Until she started working.  Then she quit after a few weeks and changed her career path for specialized education.  "Unclean" (I could say filthy, from what she described...) clients and those who constantly asked her for "extras" (this was a legitimate business, not one of those that should not exist but is almost never visited by cops (the on-duty ones at least) and she often needed her boss to intervene.  It's sad.  :(

But the same happens to male therapists with the gay crowd.  Not that it makes it ok either.  I wish it was legal and well advertised as such so others who do not participate would be left in peace.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on March 22, 2021, 06:30:59 PM
I agree, legalization and regulation would be the way to go. 
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on March 22, 2021, 06:32:51 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 22, 2021, 05:06:12 PM
:huh:  The only part I left out was the description of the person who made the statement - which I identified in my post.

This is not a brothel. Please read what I posted more carefully, not all of them are willing to provide sex to their clients, but those who refuse are often attacked by their customers

QuoteYvonne Chen, an advocate for sex trafficking victims who works with Asian women who work at massage businesses, said not all of them are willing to provide sex to their clients, but those who refuse are often attacked by their customers.

What you left out is that she was talking about trafficked women at massage parlors in general, NOT this specific place.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on March 22, 2021, 06:55:39 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 22, 2021, 06:32:51 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 22, 2021, 05:06:12 PM
:huh:  The only part I left out was the description of the person who made the statement - which I identified in my post.

This is not a brothel. Please read what I posted more carefully, not all of them are willing to provide sex to their clients, but those who refuse are often attacked by their customers

QuoteYvonne Chen, an advocate for sex trafficking victims who works with Asian women who work at massage businesses, said not all of them are willing to provide sex to their clients, but those who refuse are often attacked by their customers.

What you left out is that she was talking about trafficked women at massage parlors in general, NOT this specific place.

I didn't suggest she was.  She was talking about the message parlor industry as a whole, and the fact that men come looking for sex there, even if it is a legitimate business.

We even had one Languish contributor make a stupid joke about someone not getting a happy ending, and that these message parlors looked like a place one goes for sex.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 22, 2021, 09:23:21 PM
Shooting in Boulder CO.  Many dead.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on March 22, 2021, 09:44:11 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 22, 2021, 09:23:21 PM
Shooting in Boulder CO.  Many dead.
Lauren Boebert offered thoughts & prayers to everyone, so all is good.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 22, 2021, 09:46:33 PM
Quote from: viper37 on March 22, 2021, 09:44:11 PM
Lauren Boebert offered thoughts & prayers to everyone, so all is good.

That's a step up from calling it a false flag operation.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on March 22, 2021, 11:05:41 PM
Suspect is in custody, so presumed white male.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on March 22, 2021, 11:07:06 PM
I guess someone else had a bad day too.
Or maybe he was just trying to save us all from his junk food addition.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 22, 2021, 11:51:26 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGLPeTnnvwc

I wonder how his clothes came off.  Maybe cops said strip so we can see you have nothing under the clothes.

Outside chance he's Iranian.  He's got that bald pattern.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on March 23, 2021, 12:06:30 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 22, 2021, 09:46:33 PM
Quote from: viper37 on March 22, 2021, 09:44:11 PM
Lauren Boebert offered thoughts & prayers to everyone, so all is good.

That's a step up from calling it a false flag operation.
Wasn't this the other crazy lunatic from the GOP?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 23, 2021, 12:55:35 AM
Quote from: viper37 on March 23, 2021, 12:06:30 AM
Wasn't this the other crazy lunatic from the GOP?

Yup. 
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Caliga on March 23, 2021, 11:24:25 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 22, 2021, 11:51:26 PM
Outside chance he's Iranian.  He's got that bald pattern.
His name is apparently Ahmad Al Issa, which doesn't sound Persian to me. :hmm:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 23, 2021, 11:36:21 AM
Quote from: Caliga on March 23, 2021, 11:24:25 AM
His name is apparently Ahmad Al Issa, which doesn't sound Persian to me. :hmm:

Kurdish?  Afghan?  Pakistani?  Iranian-pattern male baldness is not limited to only Iranians.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Caliga on March 23, 2021, 11:37:42 AM
I dunno, it just sounds Arabic in general.  We'll find out more details soon enough, I guess.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on March 23, 2021, 12:16:36 PM
Issa is the Arabic form of Jesus, I wonder if he's Christian.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on March 23, 2021, 12:21:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 23, 2021, 12:16:36 PM
Issa is the Arabic form of Jesus, I wonder if he's Christian.

Arabic muslim form of Jesus to be precise. Arabic Christians are much more likely to use Yasu, closer to Aramaic.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Caliga on March 23, 2021, 02:10:38 PM
Apparently his family came to the US from Syria.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on March 23, 2021, 02:15:34 PM
Quote from: Caliga on March 23, 2021, 02:10:38 PM
Apparently his family came to the US from Syria.

Well that's just great.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on March 23, 2021, 04:56:44 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on March 23, 2021, 12:21:21 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on March 23, 2021, 12:16:36 PM
Issa is the Arabic form of Jesus, I wonder if he's Christian.

Arabic muslim form of Jesus to be precise. Arabic Christians are much more likely to use Yasu, closer to Aramaic.


There was a Republican congressman who's last name was Issa, so at least some Christian Arabs use that name.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 23, 2021, 05:45:51 PM
It's Arabic for Jesus.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on March 23, 2021, 06:28:39 PM
Always found it curious how some countries have zero issue with the name jesus but others, such as the English speaking world, see it as a big no.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on March 23, 2021, 06:54:21 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 23, 2021, 05:45:51 PM
It's Arabic for Jesus.

I heard it was the Arabic name for Jesus. Is that true?

Anyway Ahmad Al Issa sounds like a reference to Sura 61:6 of the Quran to me, which names Ahmad as the messenger which will come after Jesus and is supposed to refer to Mohammed. So it could go either way. I don't fully know how Arabic last names work though.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: merithyn on March 23, 2021, 07:04:59 PM
Quote from: Caliga on March 23, 2021, 02:10:38 PM
Apparently his family came to the US from Syria.

When he was very young/an infant. He's pretty American.

His older brother said that he'd been acting schizophrenic and paranoid for some time. So basically, the kid truly is mentally ill in this case.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on March 23, 2021, 07:15:20 PM
Quote from: merithyn on March 23, 2021, 07:04:59 PM
Quote from: Caliga on March 23, 2021, 02:10:38 PM
Apparently his family came to the US from Syria.

When he was very young/an infant. He's pretty American.

His older brother said that he'd been acting schizophrenic and paranoid for some time. So basically, the kid truly is mentally ill in this case.

Ah that makes sense. We have been talking about mental illness being a big problem with these shootings for awhile, but sadly instead of addressing that issue it seems like it is used as a basis to oppose gun control.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Caliga on March 23, 2021, 08:09:27 PM
Quote from: merithyn on March 23, 2021, 07:04:59 PM
When he was very young/an infant. He's pretty American.

His older brother said that he'd been acting schizophrenic and paranoid for some time. So basically, the kid truly is mentally ill in this case.
Just to be clear, I was merely stating that he was of Syrian origin, not implying anything about Syria/Syrians there.

In fact, my next door neighbors are Syrians and they are lovely people (the dad also happens to be the Imam at Louisville's main mosque).
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 23, 2021, 08:12:35 PM
Quote from: Tyr on March 23, 2021, 06:28:39 PM
Always found it curious how some countries have zero issue with the name jesus but others, such as the English speaking world, see it as a big no.
Although the Aramaic form of Jesus was Yeshua and we do have Joshua which is the English form of that :lol:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on March 23, 2021, 08:52:46 PM
Quote from: Caliga on March 23, 2021, 11:24:25 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 22, 2021, 11:51:26 PM
Outside chance he's Iranian.  He's got that bald pattern.
His name is apparently Ahmad Al Issa, which doesn't sound Persian to me. :hmm:


The name I keep seeing is Ahmad Al Aliwi Alissa.  CNN is saying that he has a brother named Ali Aliwi Alissa.  Damn that's confusing.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on March 24, 2021, 01:56:16 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 23, 2021, 12:55:35 AM
Quote from: viper37 on March 23, 2021, 12:06:30 AM
Wasn't this the other crazy lunatic from the GOP?

Yup.
It's getting harder&harder everyday to keep track of so many lunatics.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 24, 2021, 01:59:00 PM
Quote from: viper37 on March 24, 2021, 01:56:16 PM
It's getting harder&harder everyday to keep track of so many lunatics.

The fat one says it was Antifa.  The skinny one is less crazy.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on March 28, 2021, 02:13:00 PM
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1376173348842000385?s=20

Quote"I own an AR-15. If there's a natural disaster in South Carolina where the cops can't protect my neighborhood, my house will be the last one that the gang will come to, because I can defend myself." -- Lindsey Graham
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Solmyr on March 28, 2021, 04:02:52 PM
Next Fallout game will be set in South Carolina with Lindsey Graham as the big bad.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Oexmelin on March 28, 2021, 04:50:22 PM
So many American gun nuts itching to kill another human being, hoping for a pretense to just manifest itself. 
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 28, 2021, 07:34:01 PM
I suspect Graham knows he would wet himself, but that's not something a SC Senator can say.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: PDH on March 28, 2021, 07:38:56 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on March 28, 2021, 04:02:52 PM
Next Fallout game will be set in South Carolina with Lindsey Graham as the big bad.

Graham can never be the big bad, he is unctuous slime who carries out the evil deeds, hits little old ladies when his gang is protecting him, and who would switch to the winning side at a moment's notice when the winds change (only to switch back if need be).
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on March 29, 2021, 01:32:41 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 28, 2021, 02:13:00 PM
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1376173348842000385?s=20

Quote"I own an AR-15. If there's a natural disaster in South Carolina where the cops can't protect my neighborhood, my house will be the last one that the gang will come to, because I can defend myself." -- Lindsey Graham

"The gang"? Which one? Kool and? Of Four? The old one being broken up by wedding bells?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on March 29, 2021, 03:05:22 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 28, 2021, 02:13:00 PM
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1376173348842000385?s=20

Quote"I own an AR-15. If there's a natural disaster in South Carolina where the cops can't protect my neighborhood, my house will be the last one that the gang will come to, because I can defend myself." -- Lindsey Graham
Mental image of him madly firing into a tornado.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on March 29, 2021, 03:26:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 28, 2021, 02:13:00 PM
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1376173348842000385?s=20

Quote"I own an AR-15. If there's a natural disaster in South Carolina where the cops can't protect my neighborhood, my house will be the last one that the gang will come to, because I can defend myself." -- Lindsey Graham

...and now the gang knows where they can get their hands on an AR-15  :lol:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Solmyr on March 29, 2021, 05:43:35 AM
Quote from: Tyr on March 29, 2021, 03:05:22 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 28, 2021, 02:13:00 PM
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1376173348842000385?s=20

Quote"I own an AR-15. If there's a natural disaster in South Carolina where the cops can't protect my neighborhood, my house will be the last one that the gang will come to, because I can defend myself." -- Lindsey Graham
Mental image of him madly firing into a tornado.

He'd just be following the lead of his man Donald, who wanted to nuke a hurricane.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on March 29, 2021, 07:54:42 AM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on March 29, 2021, 03:26:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on March 28, 2021, 02:13:00 PM
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1376173348842000385?s=20

Quote"I own an AR-15. If there's a natural disaster in South Carolina where the cops can't protect my neighborhood, my house will be the last one that the gang will come to, because I can defend myself." -- Lindsey Graham

...and now the gang knows where they can get their hands on an AR-15  :lol:

That was my first thought.  They won't even need to wait for a natural disaster; they only need to wait until he toddles off to bed at 10:30 pm.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on March 29, 2021, 07:55:15 AM
What if the natural emergency is 30-50 feral hogs? :hmm:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on March 29, 2021, 08:18:36 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 29, 2021, 07:55:15 AM
What if the natural emergency is 30-50 feral hogs? :hmm:

Go on.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on March 29, 2021, 12:50:33 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56553790

churchbombing by adherents of our favourite religion of peace.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on March 29, 2021, 12:59:03 PM
It is the season for religious bombings.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on April 02, 2021, 02:20:46 PM
Christ, not again. :bleeding:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on April 02, 2021, 03:06:44 PM
So... The us capitol has been attacked?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Caliga on April 02, 2021, 03:28:00 PM
I'm sure it was done by one of the very fine people who love America and law and order so much they feel compelled to attack American institutions and kill cops.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on April 02, 2021, 03:55:11 PM
This is the cost of acquitting Trump.  This bullshit will keep happening until the GOP sidelines the crazies.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 02, 2021, 04:26:36 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 02, 2021, 03:28:00 PM
I'm sure it was done by one of the very fine people who love America and law and order so much they feel compelled to attack American institutions and kill cops.

True patriots.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on April 02, 2021, 05:00:03 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 02, 2021, 03:55:11 PM
This is the cost of acquitting Trump.  This bullshit will keep happening until the GOP sidelines the crazies.

No it'll end when it transforms into something more serious; I think there are bound to be McVeigh like plotters at work planning Oklahoma style outrages, maybe even now.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on April 02, 2021, 06:08:15 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on March 29, 2021, 12:50:33 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56553790

churchbombing by adherents of our favourite religion of peace.

So a church belonging to one "religion of peace" was ineptly suicide-bombed by adherents of a different "religion of peace?"

The story just needs a BJP angle to be complete.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Caliga on April 02, 2021, 07:34:27 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 02, 2021, 03:28:00 PM
I'm sure it was done by one of the very fine people who love America and law and order so much they feel compelled to attack American institutions and kill cops.
It turns out the guy was into Nation of Islam. :huh:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on April 02, 2021, 07:38:36 PM
Well, happily this was not a political act.  This was just a person who thought the CIA was controlling his mind.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 03, 2021, 02:17:13 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 02, 2021, 06:08:15 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on March 29, 2021, 12:50:33 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56553790

churchbombing by adherents of our favourite religion of peace.

So a church belonging to one "religion of peace" was ineptly suicide-bombed by adherents of a different "religion of peace?"

The story just needs a BJP angle to be complete.

keep drowning that fish...
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 03, 2021, 05:35:55 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 03, 2021, 02:17:13 AM
keep drowning that fish...

Please, please don't throw me in the briar patch?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on April 03, 2021, 12:05:23 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 02, 2021, 07:38:36 PM
Well, happily this was not a political act.  This was just a person who thought the CIA was controlling his mind.

We're not too far off from "End CIA mindcontrol" being a mainstream GOP political opinion.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on April 03, 2021, 02:49:56 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on April 03, 2021, 02:17:13 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 02, 2021, 06:08:15 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on March 29, 2021, 12:50:33 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56553790

churchbombing by adherents of our favourite religion of peace.

So a church belonging to one "religion of peace" was ineptly suicide-bombed by adherents of a different "religion of peace?"

The story just needs a BJP angle to be complete.

keep drowning that fish...

Physician, heal thyself.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on April 23, 2021, 01:01:56 PM
™Religion of Eternal Peace™ at it again:

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210423-policewoman-fatally-stabbed-near-paris-french-pm-to-visit-site-of-attack (https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210423-policewoman-fatally-stabbed-near-paris-french-pm-to-visit-site-of-attack)

QuoteFrance will never give in to 'Islamist terrorism,' says Macron after policewoman's killing

President Emmanuel Macron said France would never give in to "Islamist terrorism" after the attack in Rambouillet, a tranquil commuter town about 60 kilometres (40 miles) from Paris, which revived the trauma of a spate of deadly attacks last year.

France's national anti-terrorism prosecutors said they had opened a terror investigation, also involving the DGSI domestic intelligence service, into the murder of a person holding public authority.

A source close to the inquiry told AFP the attacker shouted "Allahu Akbar" (God is Greatest) during the attack.

Chief anti-terror prosecutor Jean-François Ricard, who spoke outside the station along with Prime Minister Jean Castex, confirmed that "comments made by the assailant" indicated a terror motive, without giving further details.

'By her side'

The attack took place in the secure entrance area of the station at around 2:20pm (1220 GMT), a police source added.

The 49-year-old woman, an administrative assistant and mother of two who was returning from a lunch break, was stabbed in the throat twice and died of her wounds shortly afterwards, the source said.

The attacker, 36, was fatally wounded when an officer opened fire on him.

He arrived in France illegally in 2009 but had since obtained residency papers, a police source said, adding that he was unknown to security services. He had just moved to Rambouillet.

Macron vowed on Twitter that "in our fight against Islamist terrorism, we will never give in," identifying the murdered woman as Stéphanie.

"The nation is by the side of her family, her colleagues and security forces," he said.

Elle était policière. Stéphanie a été tuée dans son commissariat de Rambouillet, sur les terres déjà meurtries des Yvelines. La Nation est aux côtés de sa famille, de ses collègues et des forces de l'ordre. Du combat engagé contre le terrorisme islamiste, nous ne céderons rien.

— Emmanuel Macron (@EmmanuelMacron) April 23, 2021
Interior Minister Gérald Darmanin, who also visited officers in Rambouillet, said security would be stepped up at stations nationwide.

Spate of attacks

Several attacks over the last year have reignited concerns about the spread of radical Islam inside France as well as immigration.

In September, a Pakistani man wounded two people with a meat cleaver outside the former offices of satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo, which had printed cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed.

On October 16, a young Chechen refugee beheaded teacher Samuel Paty who had showed some of the caricatures to his pupils.

And on October 29, three people were killed when a recently arrived Tunisian went on a stabbing spree in a church in the Mediterranean city of Nice.

In the most severe recent attack against French police, three officers and one police employee in Paris were stabbed to death in October 2019 by an IT specialist colleague who was himself then shot dead.

He was later found to have shown an interest in radical Islam.

These attacks came after the massacres carried out by Islamist extremists from 2015 that began with the massacre of staff in the offices of Charlie Hebdo in January that year.

Subscribe
In France's deadliest peacetime atrocity, 130 people were killed and 350 were wounded when Islamist suicide bombers and gunmen attacked the Stade de France stadium, bars and restaurants in central Paris and the Bataclan concert hall in November 2015.

The next year a man rammed a truck into a Bastille Day crowd in Nice in 2016, killing 86 people.

Just a few weeks before, in June 2016, two police officers were stabbed to death at their home outside Paris by a man claiming allegiance to the Islamic State group.

Macron's government has introduced legislation to tackle radical Islamist activity in France, a bill that has stirred anger in some Muslim countries.

French media add the suspect had made some reconnaissance before perpetrating the attack.

PS: police woman but holding a clerical position, a secretary, so unarmed.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Oexmelin on July 27, 2021, 10:32:29 AM
Full story at AP.

Quote

PALATKA, Fla. (AP) — Joseph Moore breathed heavily, his face slick with nervous sweat. He held a cellphone with a photo of a man splayed on the floor; the man appeared dead, his shirt torn apart and his pants wet.

Puffy dark clouds blocked the sun as Moore greeted another man, who'd pulled up in a metallic blue sedan. They met behind an old fried chicken shack in rural north Florida.

"KIGY, my brother," Moore said. It was shorthand for "Klansman, I greet you."

Birds chirped in a tree overhead and traffic whooshed by on a nearby road, muddling the sound of their voices, which were being recorded secretly.

Moore brought the phone to David "Sarge" Moran, who wore a camouflage-print baseball hat emblazoned with a Confederate flag patch and a metal cross. His arms and hands were covered in tattoos.

A nervous, giddy chuckle escaped Moran's mouth.

"Oh, shit. I love it," he said. "Motherf----- pissed on himself. Good job."

"Is that what y'all wanted?"

"Yes, hell yeah," Moran said, his voice pitched high.

It was 11:30 a.m. on March 19, 2015, and the klansmen were celebrating what they thought was a successful murder in Florida.

But the FBI had gotten wind of the murder plot. A confidential informant had infiltrated the group, and his recordings provide a rare, detailed look at the inner workings of a modern klan cell and a domestic terrorism probe.

That investigation would unearth another secret: An unknown number of klansmen were working inside the Florida Department of Corrections, with significant power over inmates, Black and white.

https://apnews.com/article/government-and-politics-business-race-and-ethnicity-racial-injustice-only-on-ap-2b4106de3ebcbfae85948439a7056031
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on August 12, 2021, 03:11:01 PM
Something going down in Plymouth, England.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on August 12, 2021, 03:16:09 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 12, 2021, 03:11:01 PM
Something going down in Plymouth, England.

They say its not terror related.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 12, 2021, 03:17:33 PM
Multiple fatalities - but, apparently, not terror related. No idea what's happening at this point though.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on August 12, 2021, 04:13:39 PM
So a robbery gone wrong? Domestic violence?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on August 12, 2021, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 12, 2021, 04:13:39 PM
So a robbery gone wrong? Domestic violence?

They are writing about a now-dead gunman and multiple fatalities. My guess is the gunman wasn't a Muslim hence the "non-terrorism" tag.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 12, 2021, 06:08:46 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 12, 2021, 04:13:39 PM
So a robbery gone wrong? Domestic violence?
Still very few details.

I'd guess it's unlikely to be domestic violence given that it seemed to happen on a street. And it's not clear if the gunman had a licence for the weapon, but guns are not common here so I'd also think a robbery gone wrong is quite unlikely. The not thought to be terror related is from the local MP - who I assume has been informed that's the police's thinking - but I've not seen the police themselves say that. So it could be, or maybe organised crime? Or, sadly, a sicko with access to a gun.

But very little has been made public yet.

Edit: But apparently at least five dead :(

Edit: Although this doesn't sound very terrorism-y:
QuoteEyewitness Sharron, who lives near Biddick Drive and did not want to give her full name, said what happened was "horrendous and so sad".

"Firstly, there was shouting, followed by gunshots - three possibly four to begin with," she said.

"This was when the shooter kicked in the door of a house and randomly started shooting ... He ran from the house shooting as he ran and proceeded to shoot at a few people in the linear park up from the drive."

She said the "shooter proceeded along Royal Navy Avenue still shooting".

Another witness, Robert Pinkerton, said he "walked around the corner" and "bumped into a bloke with a shotgun". He said the man was dressed all in black.

Like I wouldn't expect a terrorist to kick in the door of a house in a suburb of Plymouth and then start running down the street shooting people. It sounds very strange.

Edit: Six fatalities including the shooter - police have said it's not terrorism related.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on August 12, 2021, 06:34:43 PM
Ok so you want to murder somebody and are indifferent to getting away with it, then kicking down the door and just shooting the person is something you might do. But then why shoot randos on the street? Very odd.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 12, 2021, 06:39:14 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 12, 2021, 06:34:43 PM
Ok so you want to murder somebody and are indifferent to getting away with it, then kicking down the door and just shooting the person is something you might do. But then why shoot randos on the street? Very odd.
Agreed - and domestic incident gone very wrong strikes me as pretty possible now I've read the kicking in the door bit. But I've no idea - we'll have to wait for more information.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on August 12, 2021, 08:17:37 PM
Shooting random people in the street and in a park, sounds a lot like terrorism.
I think it was be safer to treat it as terrorism until proven otherwise, so be prepared for more and give the search for possible accomplishes/backers a very high priority. 

And since he's dead they can't accurately ascertain his mental state at the moment.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 13, 2021, 03:48:50 AM
Quote from: mongers on August 12, 2021, 08:17:37 PM
Shooting random people in the street and in a park, sounds a lot like terrorism.
I think it was be safer to treat it as terrorism until proven otherwise, so be prepared for more and give the search for possible accomplishes/backers a very high priority. 
Maybe - although I feel terrorism as the default might be a distraction for the police/media.

Kicking in a door and attacking people in a house on a suburban street full of semis doesn't feel like a terrorist - it feels personal - even if he's then just shooting at random.

But it's very early and we don't know much. They've named the guy and apparently his social media is full of posts of him expressing despair about the future, struggling to lose weight and get a girlfriend (all fairly relateable :ph34r:). It may be that there's something a bit incel-ish or strongly misogynist in that which I think probably would push it back to a form of terrorism - but we don't know.

Edit: Apparently looks like the victims are his family plus bystanders :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on August 13, 2021, 02:40:13 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/13/plymouth-shooting-police-reinstated-gunmans-firearms-licence-last-month

QuotePlymouth shooting: police reinstated gunman's firearms licence last month

A gunman who killed his mother and four passersby, including a three-year-old girl, had his firearms licence revoked in December, but police reinstated it last month after he attended an anger management course.

Police will face an investigation over their dealings with Jake Davison, 22, who expressed sympathy for the "incel" movement and a keen interest in mass shootings. One resident from Plymouth, where the killing spree took place, said Davison's family had sought treatment for his mental health issues.

Detectives are also facing questions over the decision to treat the attack – which was Britain's worst mass shooting in over a decade – as a domestic incident rather than a terror attack. On Friday evening sources said the main motives under investigation were a hatred of women and mental heath issues.

As well as his mother, Maxine, 51, Davison's victims were named on Friday as Lee Martyn, 43, and his three-year-old daughter Sophie Martyn, whom he is believed to have adopted, and Stephen Washington, 59, and Kate Shepherd, 66.

Devon and Cornwall police suspended Davison's firearms licence in December last year over concerns about his suitability to hold a weapon, but deemed him suitable to have his gun back last month. He had held a licence since 2018.

The Guardian understands Davison had to attend an anger management course to get his licence back, and months ago was classed by police as being fit again to possess the three-shot shotgun, despite earlier concerns.

In 2020 he had a row with two youths and was reported to police, but he had no previous offences and agreed to attend the course, sources said. The police watchdog, the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC), will formally investigate the handling of his gun licence by police.

...
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on August 13, 2021, 02:45:48 PM
Aren't most of the Muslim suicide attackers frustrated loners as well? If they do this it's terrorism, if a non-Muslim white guy its domestic violence.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 13, 2021, 02:57:06 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 13, 2021, 02:45:48 PM
Aren't most of the Muslim suicide attackers frustrated loners as well? If they do this it's terrorism, if a non-Muslim white guy its domestic violence.
Yeah - but I still don't think this is terrorism. I've mentioned before but I think I've seen a lot of attacks classified as terrorism that seem more, to me, like school shootings - an individual making random attacks. And a troubled individual shouting "Allahu akbar" or having extreme opinions doesn't transform that into terrorism.

I feel like this matter in terms of policy because if it's terrorism - mongers suggestions are right. You look at whether there's a network, who else is involved etc. With attacks like this I feel like the more appropriate policy response would be spending money on mental health and making sure it's actually available for people because from what I've seen this guy clearly had problems and was going through a crisis. And mental health appears a far bigger issue in this guy's case.

From the Guardian - and I slightly disagree with the headline which I think is more of a terrorist framing and doesn't seem to gel with his actual comments or actions (I can't think of any terrorist attack that isn't trying to maximise attention or destruction - your family's home in a suburb followed by what seems possibly like suicide by cop is sort of different):
QuotePlymouth gunman: a hate-filled misogynist and 'incel'
Videos Jake Davison posted online portray him as a man in despair who raged against success of others
Matthew Weaver and Steven Morris
Fri 13 Aug 2021 16.53 BST

Jake Davison, the Plymouth attacker, expressed misogynistic and homophobic views and portrayed himself as a man in despair who raged against his mother and his failure to find a girlfriend.

In what the 22-year-old described as an "unscripted rant" posted just over two weeks ago, he said "for the most part it's just been me against the world".


He also shared hate-filled views on Reddit forums used by "incels" – men who express online hostility and resentment towards those who are sexually active, particularly women. Earlier this year, authorities in the US warned that attacks linked to the incel movement were on the increase as authorities around the world have begun to treat the ideology as a more serious terrorism threat.

Davison used incel forums to express hatred for his mother and a view that mass shootings had no connection to gun control.

It is believed Davison's first victim was his mother, Maxine, 51, after police confirmed there was a "familial relationship" with one of the victims.

Davison's Reddit posts are filled with hatred for his mother, whom he described as "my vile dysfunctional chaotic mother". He also rants in general against single mothers.


He also alludes to a financial dispute with his mother over benefit money that he felt he was owed because he claimed he had autism. A month ago, he wrote: "Luckly i got PIP money because i legit have autism which i should have taken from my mother at 18 years old really but like an idiot she manipulated and guilt tripped me in lettering her have it until at 22 i decided enough is enough and i took it from her."

Police said they were keeping an open mind on the motive but a neighbour and friend of the family said Davison had fallen out with his mother and they argued over his misogynist views. The neighbour said: "Maxine and Jake used to be close. You'd always see him helping her with the shopping at Lidl but they started to clash a lot. Jake was very quiet growing up. He was a troubled soul. He got into guns and he knew everything there was to know about them."

Two days ago, he liked a brief video on YouTube of men in the US loading and firing powerful rifles at a target. Social media posts from about 2018 also suggest he was a fan of the former US president Donald Trump and a supporter of the UK Libertarian party.

He shared a quote of Trump saying: "In America we do not seek to impose our way of life on anyone but rather to let it shine as an example for everyone to want." In 2016, he posted an image of a statue of Capt John Parker holding a rifle, an iconic figure in the US of the right to bear arms.

Davison shot himself after killing five others including a three-year-old girl. Police have confirmed he held a gun licence.


Last month on Reddit, he wrote: "Mass shootings are new phenomena that cannot be directly blamed on guns." He mentioned the Hungerford mass shooting in 1987 in the UK when 18 people were killed.

Davison's Facebook profile listed him as working for the defence and security company Babcock International, which is based in Plymouth. His profile also claimed he was from Phoenix, Arizona.

In two videos posted late last month he comes across as a man struggling with his mental health and full of loathing for himself and others.

In the most recent, he said: "It's just been me fighting an uphill battle with a big fucking rock on my back, seeing motherfuckers that don't deserve half of anything now. They're getting a free ride to the top."

He compared life to a Terminator movie where "everything is rigged against you – there's no hope for humanity".


Davison twice likened himself to an "incel" and complained that he lacked friends and a support network.

"Maybe the business owner might go bankrupt twice ... but guess what – he had a wife and kids to support him. Does incel or virgin get that? No. Imagine failing at everything in life and having absolutely no support whatsoever."


In a video filmed in a room with weightlifting equipment visible, Davison spoke of his lack of motivation to continue working out. He said: "You don't have any willpower to do anything any more ... how many years have I been working out? How many years have I been wanting and dealing with all these frustrations?"

He then pinched his stomach and asked: "Do I look any better?" He added: "Now I'm so beaten down, and defeated by fucking life. That drive that I once had has gone, mine has gone."


He suggested he had been happy working in his late teens as a scaffolder, but had declined since then. "I worked there for a year and a half and then I injured my ankle when I took a couple weeks off and then after that I was just never the same," he said.

He also compared himself to a retired boxer. "What happens to these pro-fighters when they lose? They lose all motivation, they're fucked they're never the same again."

Speaking with a West Country accent, Davison added: "You get old, you're ground down." He added: "I'm still in the same house, same situation, same position ... I'm still a virgin, fat, ugly, whatever you want to call it."

At one point he expressed surprise that he had made it this far in life: "Most people would have been completely broken if they had lived my fucking life."

In another video, he voiced regret at missing out on teenage love. "I have a feeling like I missed that boat and it's never coming back." He added: "There's nothing really to look forward to as an adult, other than getting rich."

At one point he described himself as "autistic or whatever" and complained that his workplace was a "male environment".

He said: "I'm not very social and naturally quite asocial so I don't have big social circles where I know I can meet girls."
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on August 13, 2021, 04:10:19 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 13, 2021, 02:45:48 PM
Aren't most of the Muslim suicide attackers frustrated loners as well? If they do this it's terrorism, if a non-Muslim white guy its domestic violence.

I mean shouldn't terrorism have, you know, a political objective? That is what makes it terrorism? If it really is just Muslim guy then is every single murder carried out by Muslims called terrorism? I don't think so. I don't know how many Muslims who shot their own mothers were classified as terrorists but maybe you can enlighten me.

Why even have the word "murder" if killing people automatically makes you a terrorist?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on August 13, 2021, 04:20:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 13, 2021, 04:10:19 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 13, 2021, 02:45:48 PM
Aren't most of the Muslim suicide attackers frustrated loners as well? If they do this it's terrorism, if a non-Muslim white guy its domestic violence.

I mean shouldn't terrorism have, you know, a political objective? That is what makes it terrorism? If it really is just Muslim guy then is every single murder carried out by Muslims called terrorism? I don't think so. I don't know how many Muslims who shot their own mothers were classified as terrorists but maybe you can enlighten me.

Why even have the word "murder" if killing people automatically makes you a terrorist?

My point is that indeed, a lone fucker going on a random killing spree should not be automatically terrorism, but it seems like it is if the ethnicity/religion matches.

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on August 13, 2021, 05:13:41 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 13, 2021, 04:20:28 PM
My point is that indeed, a lone fucker going on a random killing spree should not be automatically terrorism, but it seems like it is if the ethnicity/religion matches.

Yeah that is bullshit. Somebody shooting their mother is obviously domestic violence no matter what your religion is.

Walking around blowing away randos for no reason at all was pretty dark though.

QuoteHe also compared himself to a retired boxer. "What happens to these pro-fighters when they lose? They lose all motivation, they're fucked they're never the same again."

Yeah I am sure this kid really talked to a lot of former fighters. A real expert on the human condition.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on August 13, 2021, 06:03:42 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 13, 2021, 04:20:28 PM
My point is that indeed, a lone fucker going on a random killing spree should not be automatically terrorism, but it seems like it is if the ethnicity/religion matches.

It is motive that distinguishes terrorism from other forms of violence.

Terrorism is targeting to victimize people other than the targets if the violence.  If you are just killing random people because society sucks, then that isn't terrorism, that's just homicidal rage.

Terrorists don't kill in a fit of rage or depression.  They kill because they've carefully planned out an attack designed to terrorize a broader audience.

Confusing the two makes both types of violence harder to combat.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on August 13, 2021, 06:38:56 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 13, 2021, 02:45:48 PM
Aren't most of the Muslim suicide attackers frustrated loners as well? If they do this it's terrorism, if a non-Muslim white guy its domestic violence.

terrorism requires political intent and a network of support, either to simply encourage one's actions or to provide material support, like bomb making, or getting accross borders.

Psychologically speaking, there ain't much difference between a suicide-terrorist and a loner gunman who shoots himself after.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on August 19, 2021, 12:31:52 PM
https://apnews.com/article/courts-library-of-congress-171ea9c45873a98f0edb3b9a22997daf

QuoteStandoff as man in pickup near Capitol claims he has a bomb

WASHINGTON (AP) — A man sitting in a black pickup truck parked on the sidewalk outside the Library of Congress told police he had a bomb Thursday, triggering a standoff in the heart of the nation's capital.

Officials evacuated a number of buildings around the Capitol and sent snipers to the area after officers saw the man holding what looked like a detonator inside the pickup, which had no license plates. Congress is in recess this week, but staffers were seen calmly walking out of the area at the direction of authorities.

Police negotiators were communicating with him as he wrote notes and showed them to authorities from inside the truck, according to three people who were not authorized to publicly discuss the matter and spoke on condition of anonymity. They were trying to determine whether it was an operable bomb, the officials said.

"My negotiators are hard at work trying to have a peaceful resolution to this incident," U.S. Capitol Police Chief J. Thomas Manger said. "We're trying to get as much information as we can to find a way to peacefully resolve this."

The episode began about 9:15 a.m. when the truck drove up the sidewalk outside the library, Manger said. The driver told the responding officer that he had a bomb, and was holding what the officer believed to be a detonator, The truck had no license plates.

The nation's capital has been tense since the Jan. 6 insurrection at the Capitol by supporters of then-President Donald Trump.

Fencing that had been installed around the Capitol grounds had been up for months but was taken down this summer. A day before thousands of pro-Trump rioters stormed the Capitol, pipe bombs were left at the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee and the Republican National Committee in Washington. No one has been arrested yet for placing the bombs.

The RNC, not far away from where the truck was parked Thursday, was also evacuated over the threat.

The area was blocked off by police cars and barricades, and multiple fire trucks and ambulances were staged nearby. Also responding were the District of Columbia's Metropolitan Police, FBI and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

The White House said it was monitoring the situation and was being briefed by law enforcement.



https://www.rawstory.com/capitol-bomber-manifesto-ray-roseberry/

Quote'The revolution starts today, Joe Biden': Bomb suspect rants 'I'm one of five' in video driving to the US Capitol
Sarah K. Burris

Floyd Ray Roseberry, who appears to be the suspect sitting in his pickup truck outside the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C. with an alleged explosive device, posted several videos of his drive to the building Thursday on social media.

In the videos, he began by talking about how his health insurance wouldn't pay for anything anymore. He said he'd been getting injections in his knees to help him walk, but when he went to the doctor he said that the insurance didn't cover him. He went on to say that his wife had skin cancer but that the insurance wouldn't cover it either because they considered it "cosmetic." He said that his wife had to have her nose practically removed.

"I cleared my conscious with God," he said, noting that he told his wife he'd be "home" on Sunday, "whichever home it is."

"I have no fear. None," he continued. "That crack in my voice is from the passion for the land I love. Somebody needs to tell Joe Biden we here. F*cking revolution starts today, Joe Biden and before you go crackin' any pops on me you better get your military experts out and ask them what a seven-pound keg of gunpowder would do with two-and-a-half proud of [unintelligible] will do, mother f*cker! You know what else? I'm not going to light it. I'm going to give Joe Biden the option to."

He went on to claim that "he is one of five," but didn't clarify what that meant. "Them little roadblocks settin' up comin' on down here, those roadblocks ain't gonna scare f*ckin nobody. You wastin' your time. Southern boys are here. You can take me out but you know what's gonna happen, Joe Biden, there's gonna be a chain reaction. And that chain reaction is going to be on your hands when you crack a bullet through my windows."

Facebook has removed Roseberry's page and the videos along with them, but Raw Story was able to capture them before they were deleted.

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Neil on August 19, 2021, 12:57:59 PM
Wouldn't it make more sense to take his car bomb to the headquarters of an insurance company?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on August 19, 2021, 12:59:41 PM
One of Five is no Seven of Nine. Pass.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on August 19, 2021, 01:11:36 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 19, 2021, 12:57:59 PM
Wouldn't it make more sense to take his car bomb to the headquarters of an insurance company?

Maybe he wants socialized medicine or something. I don't know.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 13, 2021, 02:32:31 PM
So... This is a thing that happened. Quite unexpected. Almost feels like a protest from a gun nut.

BBC News - Kongsberg: Several killed in Norway bow and arrow attack
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58906165
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on October 13, 2021, 07:00:27 PM
Machette, knives, bows&arrows... Why can't Europeans kill one another like civilized people with a modified AR-15??

It's sad to hear that.  It does seem more like a terrorist attack than some random nut who flipped.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 14, 2021, 05:26:33 AM
Quote from: viper37 on October 13, 2021, 07:00:27 PM
Machette, knives, bows&arrows... Why can't Europeans kill one another like civilized people with a modified AR-15??

It's sad to hear that.  It does seem more like a terrorist attack than some random nut who flipped.

QuoteNorwegian police are not usually armed and after the attack the police directorate ordered all officers nationwide to carry firearms as an extra precaution.

Norway...  :wub:

L'Immonde reports that the perpetrator was a Danish citizen, convert to the ™religion of eternal peace™.

QuoteIl s'agit d'un Danois de 37 ans converti à l'islam, a déclaré la police. La chaîne TV2 avait dans un premier temps évoqué un suspect de nationalité norvégienne.

https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/10/13/norvege-plusieurs-personnes-tuees-dans-la-ville-de-kongsberg-un-homme-arme-d-un-arc-arrete-par-la-police_6098269_3210.html (https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2021/10/13/norvege-plusieurs-personnes-tuees-dans-la-ville-de-kongsberg-un-homme-arme-d-un-arc-arrete-par-la-police_6098269_3210.html)
QuoteTout en restant prudente sur les possibles mobiles de ce nouvel épisode sanglant, la police n'excluait pas un acte terroriste mercredi soir.

The hypothesis of a terrorist attack is not discarded.

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Liep on October 14, 2021, 10:03:16 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 14, 2021, 05:26:33 AM

L'Immonde reports that the perpetrator was a Danish citizen

A Danish comedy called "Wildman" about a Danish citizen settling in the Norwegian woods hunting with bow and arrow has just been postponed indefinitely. :lol:

Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 14, 2021, 05:26:33 AM

convert to the ™religion of eternal peace™.

The convert part seems less important as it looks like he's just a nutter who should've been helped or detained earlier.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on October 14, 2021, 10:24:49 AM
Quote from: Liep on October 14, 2021, 10:03:16 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 14, 2021, 05:26:33 AM

L'Immonde reports that the perpetrator was a Danish citizen

A Danish comedy called "Wildman" about a Danish citizen settling in the Norwegian woods hunting with bow and arrow has just been postponed indefinitely. :lol:

Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 14, 2021, 05:26:33 AM

convert to the ™religion of eternal peace™.

The convert part seems less important as it looks like he's just a nutter who should've been helped or detained earlier.

He's probably been a Christian, but there are many Christians who don't commit murder, so that doesn't explain why he acted this way.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 14, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
Quote from: Liep on October 14, 2021, 10:03:16 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança

L'Immonde reports that the perpetrator was a Danish citizen

Quote
A Danish comedy called "Wildman" about a Danish citizen settling in the Norwegian woods hunting with bow and arrow has just been postponed indefinitely. :lol:
So the Danish show might still go ahead, as long as it says in the forest and the hunter goes not into a "radicalization" process i guess.  :P

Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 14, 2021, 05:26:33 AM

convert to the ™religion of eternal peace™.

Quote
The convert part seems less important as it looks like he's just a nutter who should've been helped or detained earlier.

It might seem less important for you, but the perpetrator had a very recent past of "radicalisation" and was under surveillance for it as late as 2020. No report or tracking on him in 2021.
Mentioned in the article.

Quote« Il y a eu des craintes liées à une radicalisation précédemment », a dit Ole Bredrup Saeverud, un responsable de la police norvégienne, lors d'un point de presse, jeudi. Ces craintes, qui ont donné lieu à un suivi, remontent à 2020 et avant, a-t-il précisé. « Nous n'avions pas eu de signalement sur lui en 2021, mais avant », a-t-il détaillé.

The above mentioned article has also been updated 30 minutes or so ago and the terrorist act is deemed more likely by the Norwegian Police Security Agency (PST).
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 14, 2021, 11:57:45 AM
My money was on white far right nonsense at first.
But then the two are just different sides of the same coin. In this case it seems particularly so. Sad and lonely individual pulled into nuttiness
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on October 14, 2021, 12:38:45 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 14, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
It might seem less important for you, but the perpetrator had a very recent past of "radicalisation" and was under surveillance for it as late as 2020. No report or tracking on him in 2021.
Mentioned in the article.
Which is not related to his religion.  Unless he got removed from the watchlist because of his religion, for fear of accusations of racial profiling or other such nonsense.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 14, 2021, 01:01:21 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 14, 2021, 12:38:45 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 14, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
It might seem less important for you, but the perpetrator had a very recent past of "radicalisation" and was under surveillance for it as late as 2020. No report or tracking on him in 2021.
Mentioned in the article.
Which is not related to his religion.  Unless he got removed from the watchlist because of his religion, for fear of accusations of racial profiling or other such nonsense.

It's islamist/islamic radicalisation obviously, not vegan radicalisation.
Radicalisation, without a reference to islamism, is a euphemism often used by l'Immonde and its ilk.
Remember, l'Immonde has a somewhat left bias these days.  :P
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on October 14, 2021, 01:42:20 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 14, 2021, 01:01:21 PM
It's islamist/islamic radicalisation obviously, not vegan radicalisation.
Radicalisation, without a reference to islamism, is a euphemism often used by l'Immonde and its ilk.

The guys from January 6th weren't muslims.  And I would apply the "radical" epiteth to their political stance.

Quote
Remember, l'Immonde has a somewhat left bias these days.  :P
"These days"?   :hmm:

More like for the last 20 years or so. :P
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 14, 2021, 01:50:19 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 14, 2021, 01:42:20 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 14, 2021, 01:01:21 PM
It's islamist/islamic radicalisation obviously, not vegan radicalisation.
Radicalisation, without a reference to islamism, is a euphemism often used by l'Immonde and its ilk.

Quote
The guys from January 6th weren't muslims.  And I would apply the "radical" epiteth to their political stance.

For some reason, L'immonde does not feel the need to use euphemisms in that very North American situation, hardly comparable to European conditions.

Quote
Remember, l'Immonde has a somewhat left bias these days.  :P
"These days"?   :hmm:

Quote
More like for the last 20 years or so. :P

I'm old enough to remember when Le Monde was a reference paper, 20 years or so ago, more or less centrist, sometimes centre-left, sometimes centre-right; so yes, these days.  :P
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on October 14, 2021, 02:26:43 PM
Quote from: viper37 on October 14, 2021, 12:38:45 PM
Which is not related to his religion.  Unless he got removed from the watchlist because of his religion, for fear of accusations of racial profiling or other such nonsense.

The guy has Danish and Norwegian parents, grew up in Norway, has a Norwegian name, and is white.

He has a history of crime (drugs, theft), has threatened a number of people (his parents, his friends), and one of his friends who apparently tried to warn the police that he was becoming increasingly unhinged and dangerous is on record as saying (my translation) "he is mentally sick, this has nothing to do with Islam."

Folks can draw there own conclusions, of course, but that's what's being reported as facts by Norwegian and Danish media.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on October 14, 2021, 03:33:34 PM
Quote from: Jacob on October 14, 2021, 02:26:43 PM
Folks can draw there own conclusions, of course, but that's what's being reported as facts by Norwegian and Danish media.
It could be a conspiracy by Norwegian and Danish media to hide the truth.  :P

Yeah, I'm guessing the bow attack does not have much to do with radical Islam, not gruesome enough.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on October 15, 2021, 12:03:36 PM
The Norwegian police is treating "mental illness" as the most likely motive in their investigation, though they are not excluding other possibilities.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 14, 2021, 04:51:36 PM
This is still ongoing I think - negotiators in Rutland Avenue, residents being told they can't go into their homes. So still not much clarity on what's happening 10.59am on Remembrance Sunday seems deliberate but not sure about any possible link between that and Liverpool Women's Hospital - all a bit weird :hmm:
QuoteLiverpool Women's hospital: three terror arrests after man killed in taxi explosion
Men detained under Terrorism Act after incident outside hospital that also injured taxi driver
Vikram Dodd and Helen Pidd
Sun 14 Nov 2021 20.49 GMT

Three men have been arrested under terror legislation after a passenger was killed when the taxi he was in exploded outside Liverpool Women's hospital.

The men – aged 29, 26 and 21 – were detained in the Kensington area of the city and arrested under the Terrorism Act, police said.


Investigators believe it is unlikely that the explosion shortly before 11am on Sunday was caused by a fault with the vehicle. The flames spread rapidly, engulfing the taxi in a fireball.

The cab driver, who managed to escape before the flames spread, has not been arrested. Police said he is in hospital in a stable condition.

The explosion happened outside the main entrance to the hospital, and police are trying to determine if the explosion was deliberate and whether there is significance in the location.


They have been working on establishing the identity of the deceased man, and any associations that might shed light on the explosion.

The investigation is being led by counter-terrorism police who are being assisted by MI5, the security service, which has the lead role in developing intelligence to counter terrorism.

In a statement, counter-terrorism police north-west said: "We are leading the investigation with support from Merseyside police, and are keeping an open mind as to what has caused the explosion. We are working at a rapid pace to try and establish the circumstances behind this and will update in due course."


Liverpool's mayor, Joanne Anderson, described the incident as "unsettling and upsetting" as she thanked the emergency services for their swift response.

Police were called at 10.59am on Sunday morning to reports of a car explosion outside the city centre hospital. Photographs of a burning car quickly circulated on social media, as well as reports that the bomb squad was in attendance, alongside police, fire crews and the ambulance service.

Boris Johnson said: "My thoughts are with all those affected by the awful incident in Liverpool today. I want to thank the emergency services for their quick response and professionalism, and the police for their ongoing work on the investigation."

It is understood the three arrests took place around Boaler Street in the Kensington area. PA news agency reported locals saying armed officers swooped on a terraced house in Sutcliffe Street, off Boaler Street, in the afternoon and arrested one suspect. Sections of Boaler Street and Sutcliffe Street remained cordoned off, with a heavy police presence at the scene as inquiries continue.

A similar police scene was in place at Rutland Avenue in Sefton Park, with counter-terror officers sighted in the neighbourhood. Locals said police arrived from about 1pm as officers went on to guard a terraced property as the immediate surrounding area was cordoned off.


Liverpool Women's hospital said visiting access had been restricted "until further notice" and patients had been diverted to other hospitals "where possible".

In a statement, the hospital said: "We are reviewing our patient activity for the next 24-48 hours and patients should wait to be contacted for updates about any planned appointments or other attendance at the hospital.

"Our staff are being permitted to leave and enter the hospital under the supervision of Merseyside police. We would like to say thank you for the cooperation and support of our patients, visitors and staff who have been impacted by this incident, in particular those members of staff who were at the scene at the time of the incident."


Phil Garrigan, the chief fire officer of Merseyside fire and rescue service, said the car fire was "fully developed" when two appliances arrived shortly after 11am. He told reporters at the scene: "The operational crews extinguished the fire rapidly but, as has been reiterated by the police chief constable, there was one fatality. Another individual had left the vehicle prior to the fire developing to the extent that it did. Our thoughts are with them and the families of those involved."

The home secretary, Priti Patel, tweeted: "I am being kept regularly updated on the awful incident at Liverpool Women's hospital. Our police and emergency services are working hard to establish what happened and it is right they are given the time and space to do so."

Cordons remained in place on Sunday evening, alongside some road closures.

The UK terrorism threat level remains at "substantial", meaning an attack is likely.

In October, the Conservative MP Sir David Amess was killed in an alleged terrorist attack while holding his constituency surgery in Leigh-on-Sea in Essex. A man has been charged with his murder and is due to stand trial next March.

Counter-terrorism officials say most plots they thwart are motivated by a violent extremist Islamist ideology, with the next category being plots motivated by far-right ideology.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on November 15, 2021, 03:15:57 AM
Daily mail has details, but may be jumping the gun :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10200811/Bomb-squad-called-hospital-sounds-explosion-heard-outside-entrance.html
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 16, 2021, 12:29:25 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 15, 2021, 03:15:57 AM
Daily mail has details, but may be jumping the gun :

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10200811/Bomb-squad-called-hospital-sounds-explosion-heard-outside-entrance.html
This looks very much like a mental health issue or, if a form of ideological/reliigious extremism, I'd guess that it's in the "mixed or unstable" category.

He had literally been sectioned for waving a knife around on a bridge in Liverpool a couple of years ago and some people who knew him have said that, in hindsight, his mental health was a concern. One journalist said the Home Office have told them that this case is "not clear cut" so I think there may be a lot of potential motives and thoughts and issues with this man. But it definitely doesn't feel like straightforward "terrorism" (which is always the way with lone wofl attacks but especially here).
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on November 16, 2021, 06:02:20 PM
He's brown.
Clearly it's a fully funded well organised ISIS plot that necessitates a massive crack down on muslims.
Him being mentally ill can in no way be a cause.

I do wonder why he targeted a hospital. It does abortions or he has a incel thing going on against women or to cause maximum outrage and backlash... ?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on November 16, 2021, 06:47:15 PM
Quote from: Tyr on November 16, 2021, 06:02:20 PM
I do wonder why he targeted a hospital. It does abortions or he has a incel thing going on against women or to cause maximum outrage and backlash... ?
Yeah I think the initial suspicion was that he was aiming to target the Anglican Cathedral which is down the road and part of Remembrance Day services - which makes sense given the bomb went off at 10.59am. But apparently it looks like the hospital was the target all along.

My guess on motivation for the target is the same as the rest I imagine it was a combination of some mixed extreme ideoogies and something to do with his mental health.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 16, 2021, 11:01:28 PM
Shootings have stopped being newsworthy here.  Six people injured in Aurora CO the other day and it didn't rate.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on November 17, 2021, 12:24:37 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 16, 2021, 11:01:28 PM
Shootings have stopped being newsworthy here.  Six people injured in Aurora CO the other day and it didn't rate.

I think that gang shootings dropped off the radar screen years ago.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Zanza on December 15, 2021, 11:20:11 AM
A German Court today sentenced a Russian agent to life imprisonment for murder of a Chechen in 2019. The murderer shot the victim in broad daylight in a Berlin park and was caught when he fled the scene. The federal attorney general directly implicated the Russian government and the judge called it state terrorism in the judgement today.
Germany also declared two Russian "diplomats" as persona non grata today.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 15, 2021, 11:44:47 AM
Quote from: Zanza on December 15, 2021, 11:20:11 AM
The murderer shot the victim in broad daylight in a Berlin park and was caught when he fled the scene.

What a noob.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on December 15, 2021, 11:48:27 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 16, 2021, 11:01:28 PM
Shootings have stopped being newsworthy here.  Six people injured in Aurora CO the other day and it didn't rate.

I think that is probably a good thing. The draw of celebrity and drawing attention sometimes leads to copycat crimes.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on April 12, 2022, 12:24:30 PM
Some asshole shot up a subway station in New York.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on April 12, 2022, 11:38:44 PM
Turns out it was some crazy bastard who thinks that mental health workers are trying to convert the homeless into homosexuals and the Ukrainian war will eventually result in the genocide of black Americans.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 13, 2022, 12:26:27 AM
That's the second subway shooting I've read about today.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 13, 2022, 04:12:23 PM
Raz's dude is in custody.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on April 13, 2022, 04:38:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 12, 2022, 11:38:44 PMTurns out it was some crazy bastard who thinks that mental health workers are trying to convert the homeless into homosexuals 
So he's a Republican?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on April 13, 2022, 11:06:45 PM
Quote from: viper37 on April 13, 2022, 04:38:25 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 12, 2022, 11:38:44 PMTurns out it was some crazy bastard who thinks that mental health workers are trying to convert the homeless into homosexuals
So he's a Republican?

Gonna run for a US Senate seat in Georgia as soon as he gets out of the mental hospital.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on April 14, 2022, 12:14:11 AM
Why wait?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on April 14, 2022, 01:48:05 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 12, 2022, 11:38:44 PMTurns out it was some crazy bastard who thinks that mental health workers are trying to convert the homeless into homosexuals and the Ukrainian war will eventually result in the genocide of black Americans.

A moderate Republican then.

...and viper already made that comment :)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 14, 2022, 06:48:05 PM
Bumped. It. Will. Never. Fucking. Stop.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSv_56WXEAIf0Ab?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on May 14, 2022, 06:58:50 PM
Another man trying to stop the "great replacement". :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 14, 2022, 07:51:40 PM
Now, now, Raz...now is not the time to politicize things.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1104441194850017281/Dce1J-g6_400x400.jpg)

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on May 15, 2022, 02:13:46 PM
Noticed that Fox News completely omitted the Manifesto from their reporting.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Larch on May 15, 2022, 02:19:08 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 15, 2022, 02:13:46 PMNoticed that Fox News completely omitted the Manifesto from their reporting.

It overlapped too much with the last Tucker Carlson script?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 16, 2022, 02:07:13 AM
Some context, so we at least know what to Google?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on May 16, 2022, 02:17:33 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 16, 2022, 02:07:13 AMSome context, so we at least know what to Google?

The shooting in Buffalo
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on May 16, 2022, 02:20:02 AM
Shooting at a church in California. Suspect: 60 year old man from Taiwan, apparently? The Buffalo shooting didn't make it onto my sisters' timelines; wonder if this one will ...  :hmm:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on May 16, 2022, 09:31:10 AM
So an unarmed black dude will be shot to death for having a broken tail light because "police need to protect themselves," but an armed white dude in the midst of a murder spree doesn't see a shot fired?  What happened to "police need to protect themselves?"
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 16, 2022, 10:05:27 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 16, 2022, 09:31:10 AMSo an unarmed black dude will be shot to death for having a broken tail light because "police need to protect themselves," but an armed white dude in the midst of a murder spree doesn't see a shot fired?  What happened to "police need to protect themselves?"

Yeah, no shit.  And don't think for a minute that hasn't been noticed.

I mean, Buffalo PD's been under a lot of scrutiny the last few years, and has been taking a lot of strides in cleaning up their issues regarding use of force, de-escalation, and even finally getting into the 1990s with TASERs, but of all the times to accept an honorable surrender.

Also--

QuoteDescribed as a "beloved security guard" who had worked at the Jefferson Avenue location for many years, he spent much of his career as an officer working out of the Northeast District. Database records list Aaron W. Salter as 55 years old.

Salter was the first to defend lives and engage the shooter when he entered Tops around 2:30 p.m. Gramaglia said Salter fired multiple rounds at the attacker and managed to hit him, but the bullets did no damage because of the shooter's protective tactical gear.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on May 16, 2022, 10:33:09 AM
Seen on twitter, and true:  "Gendron is what you get when you make Kyle Rittenhouse the hero, and Colin Kaepernick the villain."
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 16, 2022, 11:39:24 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 14, 2022, 07:51:40 PMNow, now, Raz...now is not the time to politicize things.

On the contrary, it's time to blame the libs for opposing the one thing that could have stopped this tragedy: more guns.  If the security guard and all of the shoppers were armed to the teeth with AR-15s and armor piercing rounds, this could have been prevented.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on May 16, 2022, 11:53:38 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 16, 2022, 11:39:24 AMOn the contrary, it's time to blame the libs for opposing the one thing that could have stopped this tragedy: more guns.  If the security guard and all of the shoppers were armed to the teeth with AR-15s and armor piercing rounds, this could have been prevented.

True, ten lives would be saved from murder... while fifteen lives were lost due to AP rounds going through walls, or ricocheting off concrete.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on May 16, 2022, 11:54:13 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 16, 2022, 10:05:27 AMAlso--

QuoteDescribed as a "beloved security guard" who had worked at the Jefferson Avenue location for many years, he spent much of his career as an officer working out of the Northeast District. Database records list Aaron W. Salter as 55 years old.

Salter was the first to defend lives and engage the shooter when he entered Tops around 2:30 p.m. Gramaglia said Salter fired multiple rounds at the attacker and managed to hit him, but the bullets did no damage because of the shooter's protective tactical gear.

Clearly the best response is to provide military grade gear to local police departments, so they can handle these events on an even footing.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on May 24, 2022, 04:14:52 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 14, 2022, 06:48:05 PMBumped. It. Will. Never. Fucking. Stop.

Bumped. And why not.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on May 24, 2022, 09:49:59 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 24, 2022, 04:14:52 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on May 14, 2022, 06:48:05 PMBumped. It. Will. Never. Fucking. Stop.

Bumped. And why not.
In Texas.  Can't blame the State gun laws being too strict this time. 
The kids weren't armed with their own AR-15, that's why it happened. :(

Sorry.  I am at loss of words.  Fucking elementary school.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on May 24, 2022, 10:43:28 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 24, 2022, 09:49:59 PMIn Texas.  Can't blame the State gun laws being too strict this time. 
The kids weren't armed with their own AR-15, that's why it happened. :(

If I read correctly, the governor said the solution to this would be arming teachers, so you're not far off.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on May 25, 2022, 07:55:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 24, 2022, 10:43:28 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 24, 2022, 09:49:59 PMIn Texas.  Can't blame the State gun laws being too strict this time. 
The kids weren't armed with their own AR-15, that's why it happened. :(

If I read correctly, the governor said the solution to this would be arming teachers, so you're not far off.
:rolleyes:
Republicans.

Unless the teacher keeps the rifle armed and strapped to its body, I don't see how this is going to help.  The time it would take for the teachers to get to a locker, find the right key under stress, take the gun and charge it, the carnage would be well under way.  I think, in a city, the police might even be there faster than the teacher can get his rifle and aim at the perpetrator.  Meanwhile, you have kids to take care of. <sigh>
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on May 25, 2022, 07:58:20 AM
Quote from: viper37 on May 25, 2022, 07:55:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 24, 2022, 10:43:28 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 24, 2022, 09:49:59 PMIn Texas.  Can't blame the State gun laws being too strict this time. 
The kids weren't armed with their own AR-15, that's why it happened. :(

If I read correctly, the governor said the solution to this would be arming teachers, so you're not far off.
:rolleyes:
Republicans.

Unless the teacher keeps the rifle armed and strapped to its body, I don't see how this is going to help.  The time it would take for the teachers to get to a locker, find the right key under stress, take the gun and charge it, the carnage would be well under way.  I think, in a city, the police might even be there faster than the teacher can get his rifle and aim at the perpetrator.  Meanwhile, you have kids to take care of. <sigh>

That there is anyone willing to propose, let alone entertain, such proposals shows how dysfunctional their society is in regards to guns.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 25, 2022, 04:34:18 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 25, 2022, 07:55:33 AM:rolleyes:
Republicans.

Unless the teacher keeps the rifle armed and strapped to its body, I don't see how this is going to help.  The time it would take for the teachers to get to a locker, find the right key under stress, take the gun and charge it, the carnage would be well under way.  I think, in a city, the police might even be there faster than the teacher can get his rifle and aim at the perpetrator.  Meanwhile, you have kids to take care of. <sigh>

I think what advocates of this solution envision is teachers carrying a 32 in a holster, all the time.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on May 25, 2022, 05:29:08 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 25, 2022, 07:55:33 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 24, 2022, 10:43:28 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 24, 2022, 09:49:59 PMIn Texas.  Can't blame the State gun laws being too strict this time. 
The kids weren't armed with their own AR-15, that's why it happened. :(

If I read correctly, the governor said the solution to this would be arming teachers, so you're not far off.
:rolleyes:
Republicans.

Unless the teacher keeps the rifle armed and strapped to its body, I don't see how this is going to help.  The time it would take for the teachers to get to a locker, find the right key under stress, take the gun and charge it, the carnage would be well under way.  I think, in a city, the police might even be there faster than the teacher can get his rifle and aim at the perpetrator.  Meanwhile, you have kids to take care of. <sigh>

Yeah, key reason why the guns for self defence from humans argument is so mind numbingly stupid.

Plus I don't think it's crazy to assume you'd end up with more school shootings this way as some teachers crack or fuck up.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on May 25, 2022, 05:30:10 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 25, 2022, 04:34:18 PMI think what advocates of this solution envision is teachers carrying a 32 in a holster, all the time.

Yes.  This solution always works in the movies.  And in the movies, you hardy ever hear about the horrific number of accidental firearm deaths that result from mixing loaded weapons and kinds.  The Rambo Solution only works in the Rambo movies, but Republicans have a hard time distinguishing between reality and the movies.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on May 25, 2022, 06:24:46 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 25, 2022, 05:30:10 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 25, 2022, 04:34:18 PMI think what advocates of this solution envision is teachers carrying a 32 in a holster, all the time.

Yes.  This solution always works in the movies.  And in the movies, you hardy ever hear about the horrific number of accidental firearm deaths that result from mixing loaded weapons and kinds.  The Rambo Solution only works in the Rambo movies, but Republicans have a hard time distinguishing between reality and the movies.

Last week we were on vacation at a ranch in Central BC.  They had a guy there who took us out to his firing range and he taught us how to shoot some of his guns.  First time trying out guns and so these are the comments of a complete rookie.  But damn it took a lot of concentration to hit a target.   And each gun was completely different.  I have to admit that when I tried the revolver, I found it next to impossible to hit the target even with a lot of time and concentration  :Embarrass: What he called a sniper rifle was much easier to hit the target with at a much longer distance.  But that took a lot of time to line up properly - at least for me.  And I really had to make sure the butt was up tight against my chest/shoulder.

Not sure I would be of any use in a live shooter situation even if I was armed to the teeth with guns.



Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on May 25, 2022, 07:40:00 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 25, 2022, 04:34:18 PMI think what advocates of this solution envision is teachers carrying a 32 in a holster, all the time.
I presume police officers are trained in the use of a handgun, or handguns or various calibers.  Even they get shot when surprised by such a gunman.

A few tests were done with regular people, carrying a handgun like that, after the Charlie Hebdo attacks in France.  None of the Americans tested could draw fast enough to kill the shooter before he shot all people in the room.

In a real situation like that, an untrained individual will likely panic and have slower reflexes.  The gunman approaches with his guns ready to shoot, safety off, already pointing in the right direction and if the gun is modded to be full-auto like a M-16, there's already a hail of bullets fired a close range before the teacher can pull his gun. 

Imagine the likely scenario where Grumbler is teaching, face to the blackboard, while a gunman enters his classroom with an AR-15. Unmodded, these things fire 45 rounds/minute for the average shooter.  The military model the M-16 is 700-800 rounds/min.  let's assume a modded AR-15 rifle could fire 100 rounds/min.

I will assume that Grumbler is proficient with the use of a firearm, having been in the navy in the past, where I imagine, despite not being as trained as infantry are, they are still thaught to handle a gun or a rifle during their carreer (please correct me if I'm wrong here).

So we have a qualified operator of handgun, face to the board, while a shooter armed with two regular AR-15 enters his classroom.  By the time he can turn around to see the commotion, draw his gun, aim at the unarmored shooter in the center-mass, how many bullets have sprayed in the class?

Assume an untrained civilian, someone like me or Oex, and to make things a little more even, that untrained teacher is facing the door while speaking to his class.  An armored shooter like that one would enter the class with a modded AR-15, either an illegal bump stock, not that hard to obtain on the black market, or other devices to modify it to be closer to an M-16.  How much bullets can that shooter fire before that untrained civilian can manage to shoot him down?

That's the problem with proponents of arming teachers like most Republicans, independent of the fact that teachers may not want to open carry while teaching: it does not resist reality.

In the Buffalo case, a police officer, approaching with gun drawn, was killed without even injuring the shooter.  How much chance would a guy like me with a 32 have to defend 25 chilldren?  Or any number of adult civilians panicking after the first rounds are shot?

The most practical laws would be red flag laws were risky individuals can have their gun seized by the police immediatly.  That would be a good start.  Not selling guns to every goddam psycho and criminal out there would be another.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on May 25, 2022, 07:42:09 PM
Obviously arming the teachers alone is not a solution.  You have to also require teachers to get combat training, because armed or not, an untrained civilian is unlikely to react properly to a quickly developing situation.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on May 25, 2022, 07:54:11 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on May 25, 2022, 06:24:46 PM
Quote from: grumbler on May 25, 2022, 05:30:10 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on May 25, 2022, 04:34:18 PMI think what advocates of this solution envision is teachers carrying a 32 in a holster, all the time.

Yes.  This solution always works in the movies.  And in the movies, you hardy ever hear about the horrific number of accidental firearm deaths that result from mixing loaded weapons and kinds.  The Rambo Solution only works in the Rambo movies, but Republicans have a hard time distinguishing between reality and the movies.

Last week we were on vacation at a ranch in Central BC.  They had a guy there who took us out to his firing range and he taught us how to shoot some of his guns.  First time trying out guns and so these are the comments of a complete rookie.  But damn it took a lot of concentration to hit a target.  And each gun was completely different.  I have to admit that when I tried the revolver, I found it next to impossible to hit the target even with a lot of time and concentration  :Embarrass: What he called a sniper rifle was much easier to hit the target with at a much longer distance.  But that took a lot of time to line up properly - at least for me.  And I really had to make sure the butt was up tight against my chest/shoulder.

Not sure I would be of any use in a live shooter situation even if I was armed to the teeth with guns.

that's the problem with arming teachers, they would need to receive at minimum the training police officers receive to handle a gun and be regularly qualified to use it.

I can see how well it would work to have training ranges in child daycare and elementary schools...
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on May 25, 2022, 07:55:53 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 25, 2022, 07:42:09 PMObviously arming the teachers alone is not a solution.  You have to also require teachers to get combat training, because armed or not, an untrained civilian is unlikely to react properly to a quickly developing situation.
And schools would need to build training range on site, or send their teachers to one so they be trained.  And the teachers would do it for free, on their time... ?  And they'll get AP rounds to cover the possibility of a dude wearing a bullet proof vest?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on May 25, 2022, 07:57:57 PM
Quote from: viper37 on May 25, 2022, 07:55:53 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 25, 2022, 07:42:09 PMObviously arming the teachers alone is not a solution.  You have to also require teachers to get combat training, because armed or not, an untrained civilian is unlikely to react properly to a quickly developing situation.
And schools would need to build training range on site, or send their teachers to one so they be trained.  And the teachers would do it for free, on their time... ?  And they'll get AP rounds to cover the possibility of a dude wearing a bullet proof vest?

Obviously they won't do it for free, they'll do it for the opportunity to keep their paying job.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on May 25, 2022, 08:29:04 PM
The idea that you can train all of the teachers in the US to be proficient enough in properly carrying, maintaining, and using a firearm, that you can give them the firing range practice to allow them to be accurate enough to confidently fire in a building full of students (just on the other side of that sheetrock wall) and maintain that proficiency through frequent refresher shoots, and train them well-enough in shoot-don't-shoot procedures to avoid unnecessary gunfire in a chaotic situation... THATS FUCKING INSANE!

Any teacher who thinks that they should try to Rambo the situation rather than evacuating their students should be fired.  As Viper points out, I'm unlikely to win that shootout anyway.

Owning a gun isn't a right.  The second Amendment has nothing to do with individual rights. Gun ownership should be restricted to those who actually need them and pass enough training courses (including refreshers) and gun ownership should be tracked.  Eighteen-year-olds should not be able to buy guns any more than they can liquor or cigarettes.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 25, 2022, 09:34:21 PM
Anyone who suggests as a policy the proliferation of firearms in crowded buildings with thin walls and rooms full of children is criminally negligent at best.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HVC on May 25, 2022, 10:28:58 PM
Who sees a house on fire an thinks that more fire would help the situation.

Does the gun lobby pay off that many politicians or is it all cultural?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on May 25, 2022, 10:45:56 PM
Most of the politicians aren't serious about arming teachers or any of that crap. It's just a way of deflecting the issue without giving ground. If they were serious, they would have actually done it.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 25, 2022, 11:15:37 PM
Quote from: HVC on May 25, 2022, 10:28:58 PMDoes the gun lobby pay off that many politicians or is it all cultural?

It's very cultural.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on May 25, 2022, 11:31:20 PM
Someone should really call the Republican's bluff on this.  You want armed guards?  Fine, raise an armed guard tax.  Is it a mental health issue?  Raise a tax to fund better mental health services.  Make it easier to involuntarily commit someone.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on May 26, 2022, 12:31:05 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 25, 2022, 11:31:20 PMMake it easier to involuntarily commit someone.

I don't like this idea.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on May 26, 2022, 01:53:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 25, 2022, 11:31:20 PMMake it easier to involuntarily commit someone.

Ideally the voters should decide if elected politicians get a new term, but sure.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tamas on May 26, 2022, 02:09:26 AM
I am sorry but what if an armed teacher goes postal? To be safe, students should be armed as well.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on May 26, 2022, 02:26:57 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 26, 2022, 02:09:26 AMI am sorry but what if an armed teacher goes postal? To be safe, students should be armed as well.

That makes me think of a dystopia thing of a smart school that can eliminate shooters itself.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on May 26, 2022, 02:38:24 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 26, 2022, 02:09:26 AMI am sorry but what if an armed teacher goes postal? To be safe, students should be armed as well.

Don't give them ideas "My little Brad is a under 16s rifle shooting champion. Clearly kids should be allowed to be armed too".

Though it would be an interesting one. Conflicting with their innate desire to control kids and eliminate their agency.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on May 26, 2022, 03:05:30 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 26, 2022, 02:09:26 AMI am sorry but what if an armed teacher goes postal? To be safe, students should be armed as well.
There is actually a program in Israel that does just that.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on May 26, 2022, 06:09:57 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 26, 2022, 02:26:57 AM
Quote from: Tamas on May 26, 2022, 02:09:26 AMI am sorry but what if an armed teacher goes postal? To be safe, students should be armed as well.

That makes me think of a dystopia thing of a smart school that can eliminate shooters itself.

What we need is armed* drones permanently on patrol above all US schools.

*possibly also equiped with bunker-buster bombs incase the gunman takes refuge in the basement.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on May 26, 2022, 10:32:58 AM
Whenever anything big happens, Danish media tries to find a Danish person locally to interview... same thing happened here. They found a Danish mom in Texas, and I guess she's integrated very well. She says:

"It's not about weapons, it's about a sick young person" and also "it's the society we've created." She believes it has to do with social media, with wanting 15 minutes of fame, with wanting likes and she connects it to bullying. She recounts how her daughter was bullied and it didn't stop at school but continued on social media.

She says she's horrified by the shooting and her heart breaks for the families and she's angry that the US can't do a better job protecting children. Then she suggests that more police at schools might help. She also thinks it's about families... a good family like hers, where she's at home and the kids can talk to her if they have problems, is the best way to prevent shootings. She also notes that her 14-year old boy wants a handgun for his birthday. Luckily her husband takes the boy to the shooting range monthly, so he knows how to handle them. When asked whether it might not be a problem if one day the kid gets really angry over something. No, she replies, because (and this is a paraphrase) because he's being brought up right.

Based on this sample size, I predict nothing is going to change.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: alfred russel on May 26, 2022, 12:02:00 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 26, 2022, 10:32:58 AMI predict nothing is going to change.

Jacob, I forgive you for thinking this, as you aren't american and probably don't know that this has been disproven. It may seem from a distance that we don't respond with legislative change to gun violence, but see this study that shows our legislatures do in fact enact gun control changes in the wake of major incidents, including republican legislatures.

Let me link to a study and i'll post the abstract.

QuoteThere have been dozens of high-profile mass shootings in recent decades. This paper presents three main findings about the impact of mass shootings on gun policy. First, mass shootings evoke large policy responses. A single mass shooting leads to a 15% increase in the number of firearm bills introduced within a state in the year after a mass shooting. This effect increases with the extent of media coverage. Second, mass shootings account for a small portion of all gun deaths, but have an outsized influence relative to other homicides. Third, when looking at bills that were actually enacted into law, the impact of mass shootings depends on the party in power. The annual number of laws that loosen gun restrictions doubles in the year following a mass shooting in states with Republican controlled legislatures. We find no significant effect of mass shootings on laws enacted when there is a Democrat-controlled legislature, nor do we find a significant effect of mass shootings on the enactment of laws that tighten gun restrictions.


https://www.hbs.edu/ris/Publication%20Files/16-126_ce055015-fc1c-4a8c-9a8a-8a9361d808bb.pdf

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on May 26, 2022, 02:11:59 PM
Okay, fair enough. There'll be a flurry of law making, in two opposing directions.

My prediction is that it won't do much about the prevalence of guns nor about the number of shootings on a national level :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on May 26, 2022, 02:16:30 PM
On the social media thing - I always think of the Charlie Brooker bit on reporting a mass shooting (examples from UK press):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2o1V4lX_g4

Sadly I think of it every time there's a shooting like this as the media's maybe got a little bit better, but not much :(

Edit: Especially the last minute or so.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on May 26, 2022, 02:16:51 PM
Remember the shooting in Buffalo where a White Christian nationalist shot a bunch of Black people because he was inspired by the "White Replacement Theory" espoused on Fox News and by the GOP? The Republicans have voted against a bill written in response to that terrorism, because those terrorists are their base.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/26/senate-gop-domestic-terror/

QuoteRepublicans, however, not only said it was premature to debate a response to the recent mass shootings, they expressed serious qualms about the content of the domestic terrorism bill itself. They echoed House GOP concerns that its provisions would lead to "targeting" of conservatives by the Justice Department, among other concerns.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: alfred russel on May 26, 2022, 02:47:04 PM
Quote from: Jacob on May 26, 2022, 02:11:59 PMOkay, fair enough. There'll be a flurry of law making, in two opposing directions.

My prediction is that it won't do much about the prevalence of guns nor about the number of shootings on a national level :(

I don't think you read what i quoted/bolded...doesn't seem like the laws do in fact go in different directions.

Third, when looking at bills that were actually enacted into law, the impact of mass shootings depends on the party in power. The annual number of laws that loosen gun restrictions doubles in the year following a mass shooting in states with Republican controlled legislatures. We find no significant effect of mass shootings on laws enacted when there is a Democrat-controlled legislature, nor do we find a significant effect of mass shootings on the enactment of laws that tighten gun restrictions.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 26, 2022, 09:35:22 PM
That follows the Busse theory that the effect of mass shootings is to catalyze the NRA base in a defensive-offensive reaction.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on May 26, 2022, 11:18:32 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on May 26, 2022, 12:31:05 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 25, 2022, 11:31:20 PMMake it easier to involuntarily commit someone.

I don't like this idea.
Welcome to my world.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: alfred russel on May 27, 2022, 08:18:19 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on May 26, 2022, 09:35:22 PMThat follows the Busse theory that the effect of mass shootings is to catalyze the NRA base in a defensive-offensive reaction.

I logically follow how it happens, but it seems extremely counterintuitive that the practical result of stuff like this is the passage of laws that loosen firearm restrictions.

The next time foreign people are like, "we don't get your gun control laws" i'll bring this up to blow their minds.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on May 27, 2022, 09:10:51 AM
It is extremely dysfunctional, but it is consistent with Mancur Olson's analysis from decades ago: highly motivated minorities can carry out more effective collective action than diffuse minorities.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 12, 2022, 08:43:47 PM
QuoteDozens of White Supremacists Arrested in Idaho Had Planned to Riot, Authorities Say
Members of the right-wing group Patriot Front who were charged on Saturday were preparing to disrupt a nearby Pride event, according to the police.

NYT
By Daniel Walters
June 12, 2022
Updated 8:04 p.m. ET

COEUR D'ALENE, Idaho — Dozens of members of a white supremacist group were arrested on Saturday in Idaho before they could act on plans to riot at a local Pride event, the police said.

After receiving a tip from a concerned citizen, the police detained and charged 31 people who belonged to a far-right group known as Patriot Front, said Lee White, the chief of the Coeur d'Alene Police Department, at a news conference.

They are being charged with conspiracy to riot, a misdemeanor, he said.

Bob Norris, the sheriff of Kootenai County, said that a person reported seeing a group of people jump into a U-Haul van near the intersection of Northwest Boulevard and Interstate 90 in Coeur d'Alene.

"And they were all dressed like a small army," Sheriff Norris said. "We had units in their area, and we were able to intercept them pretty quickly."

A few miles away, the North Idaho Pride Alliance was holding "Pride in the Park," an annual event, at Coeur d'Alene City Park.

The Anti-Defamation League, which tracks extremist organizations and hate crimes, describes Patriot Front as a Texas-based white supremacist group that formed when members of another white supremacist group, Vanguard America, broke off after the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Va., in 2017.

The members arrested had come to Idaho from several states, the police said, including Texas, Utah, Colorado, South Dakota, Illinois, Wyoming, Washington, Oregon and Virginia. At least one of the members lived in Idaho, the authorities said.

According to the A.D.L., Patriot Front frequently participates in "flash demonstrations," which are designed to create viral video content and for which members generally wear masks and "khaki pants and a blue or white polo shirt," and sometimes employ smoke bombs.

Chief White said those arrested were wearing khaki pants as well as arm patches and hats emblazoned with Patriot Front logos. Videos of the arrest circulating on social media show men on their knees with their hands tied behind them. Many of the men are masked and wearing blue shirts.

"If you go online, look up 'Patriot Front,' that's exactly how these individuals are dressed," Chief White said.

Many of the men also had shields and wore shinguards, and the police recovered one smoke grenade, they said. They did not mention other weapons.

"I have no doubt in my mind, they were coming downtown to riot," Chief White said.

Chief White denied online rumors claiming that the arrests had stemmed from the work of informants.

"This all came from a concerned citizen," he said.

An apparent leader of the group had a seven-page document outlining an operational plan in extensive detail, the chief said.

After pulling up a digital image of the document, Chief White read brief selections to The New York Times that detailed how smoke was to be used: "a column forming on the outside of the park, proceeding inward, until barriers to approach are met" and "once an appropriate amount of confrontational dynamic has been established the column will disengage and head to Sherman."

Sherman Avenue runs through the center of downtown Coeur d'Alene.

Kootenai County jail records revealed that Thomas Rousseau, the founder of Patriot Front, was among those booked on criminal conspiracy charges.

In the weeks leading up to the Pride event, Sheriff Norris said, "there was a lot of chatter going on" from both far-right and far-left sources about potential confrontations at the gathering.

Some of that came from local groups, including the Panhandle Patriots, a far-right motorcycle club in northern Idaho. But several of those groups publicly altered their plans as worries of a violent confrontation increased. The Panhandle Patriots rebranded a planned "Gun d'Alene" anniversary event as a "North Idaho Day of Prayer."

Chief White said that, at this point, he did not have information suggesting that local members of the alt-right or of other far-right groups were connected to Patriot Front's plans.

Chief White said there were members of antifa groups present at the Pride event. But the Pride in the Park attendees "felt relatively safe, at least the event organizer did," Chief White said.

"There were people walking around the event with long guns and handguns and bear spray and all kinds of things like that," he said. But, he added, "that is legal in Idaho."

The action in Coeur d'Alene was not the only threat that involved a far-right group and an L.G.B.T.Q. event on Saturday. In San Lorenzo, Calif., members of the Proud Boys disrupted the "Drag Queen Story Hour," a reading event at the San Lorenzo Library that was attended by children, parents and other community members, the Alameda County Sheriff's Office said on Facebook.

The men shouted homophobic and transphobic slurs at the event organizer and were described as having a violent demeanor, authorities said. Deputies arrived and de-escalated the situation, but a hate crime investigation is underway, the sheriff's office said.[/q] 

(https://imagez.tmz.com/image/11/4by3/2022/06/12/11329aeb9f0448d9be94d4fdae79b5f8_md.jpg)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 13, 2022, 02:05:41 AM
You need a uniform to riot now?  :wacko:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on June 13, 2022, 06:52:36 AM
Cancel culture gone mad. :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 13, 2022, 08:20:40 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 13, 2022, 02:05:41 AMYou need a uniform to riot now?  :wacko:

You know how they are.  They love their little uniforms.
Surprised they didn't pack the banners and oom-pah band.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Tonitrus on June 13, 2022, 01:05:06 PM
Them brown shirts went and ruined the idea for everyone.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on June 13, 2022, 01:11:33 PM
Brown pants are still popular.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on June 13, 2022, 03:08:45 PM
White Supremacists, in Idaho?  That's improbable.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Zanza on June 13, 2022, 03:30:25 PM
At least they were cautious about Covid and all had a mask.  :)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on June 13, 2022, 05:19:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 13, 2022, 03:08:45 PMWhite Supremacists, in Idaho?  That's improbable.

Apparently most of them rolled in from out of town.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on June 13, 2022, 05:21:35 PM
You'd think Idaho would be one of the very last states that had to import Nazis.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: PDH on June 13, 2022, 05:41:43 PM
Quote from: grumbler on June 13, 2022, 05:21:35 PMYou'd think Idaho would be one of the very last states that had to import Nazis.

Maybe they were fostering diversity.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: FunkMonk on June 13, 2022, 07:39:25 PM
You guys are laughing at them now but they'll be the de facto Idaho state police soon enough.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 14, 2022, 08:38:39 AM
I've been to Coeur d'Alene, and I've seen the park where the Pride event was held; the downtown shopping district feeds right into it on one side, with the lake on the other.

Rolling up in a U-Heil, bailing out and rioting in the middle of it all, it would've been a hell of a mess.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 26, 2022, 11:30:32 AM
Slightly surprised how little coverage it's received in the UK but a violent Islamist attacked a gay bar in Oslo on Friday night, killing 2 and injuring twenty. The authorities then cancelled pride for security reasons - which seems an overreaction and very regrettable but obviously there may have been more threats they were aware of.

However, in the very truest spirit of "pride should be a protest" there was a spontaneous march to the bar yesterday, when the official parade should have happened:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWGPu4jUUAEOMbY?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on June 26, 2022, 12:09:12 PM
Good news I guess. Media attention and increasing islamophoba is why they do it
There seems to be a trend of the media learning.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: garbon on June 26, 2022, 12:12:47 PM
It was top news on BBC yesterday(?)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 26, 2022, 12:22:39 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 26, 2022, 12:12:47 PMIt was top news on BBC yesterday(?)
Oh that's good to hear - I was judging, apparently unfairly, from the Guardian, where I don't think it was the top story (though on the front page).

QuoteGood news I guess. Media attention and increasing islamophoba is why they do it
I'm not sure increasing Islamophhobia is necessarily why violent Islamists attack (though it's a factor in how people get radicalised for sure).

It's like with a non-political mass shooting, there is a balance in reporting what is very clearly important news and in effect doing it in a way that might inspire copycats - especially because with mass shootings I believer there's really clear evidence that copycat attacks happen. But I feel like a terrorist attack on a gay venue in pride month that leads to pride being cancelled in a European capital city is quite a big story.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on June 26, 2022, 02:51:15 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 26, 2022, 12:22:39 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 26, 2022, 12:12:47 PMIt was top news on BBC yesterday(?)
Oh that's good to hear - I was judging, apparently unfairly, from the Guardian, where I don't think it was the top story (though on the front page).

QuoteGood news I guess. Media attention and increasing islamophoba is why they do it
I'm not sure increasing Islamophhobia is necessarily why violent Islamists attack (though it's a factor in how people get radicalised for sure).

It's like with a non-political mass shooting, there is a balance in reporting what is very clearly important news and in effect doing it in a way that might inspire copycats - especially because with mass shootings I believer there's really clear evidence that copycat attacks happen. But I feel like a terrorist attack on a gay venue in pride month that leads to pride being cancelled in a European capital city is quite a big story.

Why individual nutters do it is broader.
But its published record by the groups themselves that the reason for terrorism is to try and whip up anti Muslims views in the west and in turn push moderate Muslims to their side and get the glorious apocalyptic clash of civilizations they want.

True, have to balance something actually being newsworthy too. Its a conundrum.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 26, 2022, 06:01:35 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on June 26, 2022, 11:30:32 AMHowever, in the very truest spirit of "pride should be a protest"

:bleeding:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on June 26, 2022, 06:19:15 PM
Trite and sentimental - but if you can't have those feelings after a bit of defiance in the face of attack, when can you? :P
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 26, 2022, 06:27:06 PM
If it only works after an attack, what good is the slogan?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on July 03, 2022, 02:22:31 PM
Several people shot and killed and more wounded in a shopping centre in Copenhagen. The killer is a 22 year old ethnic Dane according to the police.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on July 03, 2022, 02:57:38 PM
:(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Liep on July 04, 2022, 06:13:49 AM
:(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Oexmelin on July 04, 2022, 02:21:02 PM
Six dead (for now), more injured, in Highland Park shooting in Chicago. Shooter sniped at the 4th of July parade.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2022/7/4/23194354/highland-park-fourth-july-parade-gunfire
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on July 04, 2022, 02:30:52 PM
Highland Park has a big Jewish population.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on July 04, 2022, 05:28:22 PM
Again - just horrible.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on July 04, 2022, 09:26:26 PM
They caught him.  
(https://i.imgur.com/tS6Fuga.jpg)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HVC on July 04, 2022, 09:33:43 PM
There's been 311 mass shootings in America year to date :(

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on July 05, 2022, 08:53:40 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 04, 2022, 09:33:43 PMThere's been 311 mass shootings in America year to date :(

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

FREEDOM!!!111
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on July 05, 2022, 09:08:12 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 05, 2022, 08:53:40 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 04, 2022, 09:33:43 PMThere's been 311 mass shootings in America year to date :(

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

FREEDOM!!!111
The militia is well regulated.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on July 05, 2022, 10:11:05 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 05, 2022, 09:08:12 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 05, 2022, 08:53:40 PM
Quote from: HVC on July 04, 2022, 09:33:43 PMThere's been 311 mass shootings in America year to date :(

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

FREEDOM!!!111
The militia is well regulated.

A well-regulated militia would mow those posers down without breaking a sweat.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on July 06, 2022, 12:49:59 PM
About the shooting in Denmark:

The suspect called a psychological crisis line earlier in the day, but couldn't get through.

13 minutes passed between the time the alarm was raised and when the suspect was detained.

The response protocols had taken a number of lessons from earlier terror attacks in Paris and the Utøya shootings in Norway. One example given - from Paris - was the lessons that in many cases it was firefighters who saved lives, which affected how they are deployed.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 06, 2022, 04:47:35 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2u4Ck5JD6g

Illegal immigrants arrested in plot to shoot up Richmond VA July 4th parade.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on July 07, 2022, 12:42:36 AM
So they were caught while plotting to do it? So nobody actually got shot?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on July 07, 2022, 12:44:02 AM
Marjorie Taylor Greene has released a video, speculating that the July 4th mass shootings were false flag operations to create conservative support for gun control.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 07, 2022, 01:02:06 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2022, 12:42:36 AMSo they were caught while plotting to do it? So nobody actually got shot?

yep
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on July 07, 2022, 01:29:40 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 07, 2022, 12:44:02 AMMarjorie Taylor Greene has released a video, speculating that the July 4th mass shootings were false flag operations to create conservative support for gun control.

That's ridiculous. Nothing can create conservative support for gun control. Everyone knows that.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 07, 2022, 01:37:40 AM
Quote from: Jacob on July 07, 2022, 01:29:40 AMThat's ridiculous. Nothing can create conservative support for gun control. Everyone knows that.

Some Republicans did vote for the recent, very weak, bill.

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on July 07, 2022, 01:38:28 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 07, 2022, 01:37:40 AMSome Republicans did vote for the recent, very weak, bill.

I guess the false flag operations are working, then?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on July 07, 2022, 08:31:14 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 07, 2022, 12:44:02 AMMarjorie Taylor Greene has released a video, speculating that the July 4th mass shootings were false flag operations to create conservative support for gun control.

It is amazing the forces of evil are so competent they can coordinate three hundred successful false flag operations but not competent enough to actually make any progress on gun control. In fact despite hundreds and hundreds of flawless and undetectable false flag operations gun control has taken dozens of steps backwards in the past two decades.

A very specific type of competence.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on July 07, 2022, 08:49:33 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 07, 2022, 08:31:14 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 07, 2022, 12:44:02 AMMarjorie Taylor Greene has released a video, speculating that the July 4th mass shootings were false flag operations to create conservative support for gun control.

It is amazing the forces of evil are so competent they can coordinate three hundred successful false flag operations but not competent enough to actually make any progress on gun control. In fact despite hundreds and hundreds of flawless and undetectable false flag operations gun control has taken dozens of steps backwards in the past two decades.

A very specific type of competence.
Good always triumph over evil.  Don't you ever watch any Hollywood movie, ever? :P
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 12, 2022, 11:00:15 AM
QuoteAuthor Salman Rushdie, who suffered years of death threats after writing The Satanic Verses, has been attacked on stage in New York state.
The Booker Prize winner was speaking at an event at the Chautauqua Institution at the time.
Witnesses say they saw a man run on stage and either punch or stab Mr Rushdie as he was being introduced.

A video posted online shows attendees rushing onto the stage immediately following the incident.
The attacker is said to have been restrained by those on the scene.

Police confirmed a stabbing but declined to immediately identify the victim, AFP news agency reports.
Mr Rushdie's condition is not currently known.

The Indian-born novelist catapulted to fame with Midnight's Children in 1981, which went on to sell over one million copies in the UK alone.

But Mr Rushdie's fourth book, in 1988 - The Satanic Verses - forced him into hiding for nine years.
The surrealist, post-modern novel sparked outrage among some Muslims, who considered its content to be blasphemous, and was banned in some countries.
A year after the book's publication, Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khomeini called for Mr Rushdie's execution and offered a $3m (£2.5m) reward.
Dozens of people died in the violence that followed its publication, including murdered translators of the work.
The bounty over Mr Rushdie's head remains active, although Iran's government has distanced itself from Khomeini's decree.
The author, who has British and American citizenship, is a vocal advocate for freedom of expression and has defended his work on several occasions.
His appearance at the Chautauqua Institution event, in western New York, was the first in a seven-part lecture series hosted by the non-profit.
A spokesman for the organisation's on-site police department declined to comment when contacted by the BBC.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62524922 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62524922)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on August 12, 2022, 11:30:36 AM
Wow!

The reports I am seeing do not look good at all:  multiple stab wounds to the chest and abdomen.

Here's hoping I'm wrong.  :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on August 12, 2022, 11:33:04 AM
:(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on August 12, 2022, 11:54:58 AM
Seems crazy that he wouldn't have better security at such events.  The description of the attack make it sound like there was no security there at all.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on August 12, 2022, 12:15:36 PM
That is some crazy commitment to hatred. I guess congratulations are in order to the theocracy of Iran and its supreme leader.

It seems unlikely Rushdie will survive based on what grumbler said but here is hoping.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 12, 2022, 12:23:45 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 12, 2022, 11:30:36 AMWow!

The reports I am seeing do not look good at all:  multiple stab wounds to the chest and abdomen.

Here's hoping I'm wrong.  :(

News are indeed not good at all, I see now reports of a neck stab wound

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/12/salman-rushdie-attacked-during-panel-in-western-new-york-report-says.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/12/salman-rushdie-attacked-during-panel-in-western-new-york-report-says.html)

QuoteSalman Rushdie stabbed in neck in NY attack, 'Satanic Verses' scribe airlifted to hospital
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on August 12, 2022, 12:41:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 12, 2022, 12:15:36 PMThat is some crazy commitment to hatred. I guess congratulations are in order to the theocracy of Iran and its supreme leader.

It seems unlikely Rushdie will survive based on what grumbler said but here is hoping.

Didn't Iran backtrack on this?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 12, 2022, 12:53:54 PM
Quote from: Josquius on August 12, 2022, 12:41:54 PMDidn't Iran backtrack on this?

No, they tacked on more to the bounty in 2016 to something like $3m total.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on August 12, 2022, 12:55:16 PM
This is fucked up.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: DGuller on August 12, 2022, 01:04:00 PM
I'm not Dexter, but the pictures of the blood spatter seem like a bad sign, it seems to indicate that some blood vessels were severed.  Hopefully early and effective intervention was possible in that case, people have survived gruesome throat slashes before.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Maladict on August 13, 2022, 10:51:05 PM
Looks like he'll survive.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on August 14, 2022, 01:37:46 PM
A legal Question: I read that the attacker of Rushdie was charged with attempted second-degree murder. Yet I also read that the authorities are stating that the attack was pre-planned.

I know nothing of the criminal law of New York - but why, if the attack was pre-planned, would he not be charged with attempted first-degree murder?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on August 14, 2022, 01:48:21 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 14, 2022, 01:37:46 PMA legal Question: I read that the attacker of Rushdie was charged with attempted second-degree murder. Yet I also read that the authorities are stating that the attack was pre-planned.

I know nothing of the criminal law of New York - but why, if the attack was pre-planned, would he not be charged with attempted first-degree murder?
I guess at this point, they do not have the formal evidence to charge him with that, but that might come in later.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on August 14, 2022, 01:49:13 PM
Quote from: Maladict on August 13, 2022, 10:51:05 PMLooks like he'll survive.

Amazing if true. Science can overcome religion once more.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 14, 2022, 02:00:41 PM
Outrageous.

While it's great news that he's survived seeing that is likely to lose an eye and needs serious help is really awfuly.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on August 14, 2022, 02:13:33 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 14, 2022, 01:48:21 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 14, 2022, 01:37:46 PMA legal Question: I read that the attacker of Rushdie was charged with attempted second-degree murder. Yet I also read that the authorities are stating that the attack was pre-planned.

I know nothing of the criminal law of New York - but why, if the attack was pre-planned, would he not be charged with attempted first-degree murder?
I guess at this point, they do not have the formal evidence to charge him with that, but that might come in later.

Could be - I'm thinking that they know it was pre-planned because he had some sort of manifesto about it, but they don't want to give it any publicity. If there was a manifesto, that would be all the evidence they need.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on August 14, 2022, 02:35:47 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 14, 2022, 02:00:41 PMOutrageous.

While it's great news that he's survived seeing that is likely to lose an eye and needs serious help is really awfuly.

It is amazing that some people are so delusional to think this kind of barbaric nonsense  is somehow defending the honor of something.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on August 14, 2022, 02:53:07 PM
Is there further potential charges due to the bounty on Rushdie?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 14, 2022, 06:25:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 14, 2022, 02:35:47 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 14, 2022, 02:00:41 PMOutrageous.

While it's great news that he's survived seeing that is likely to lose an eye and needs serious help is really awfuly.

It is amazing that some people are so delusional to think this kind of barbaric nonsense  is somehow defending the honor of something.

that's because we're looking at this from another frame of reference.
And that frame doesn't change when crossing the borders into a western country.
Which is why it's a bad idea to let so many people with that faulty frame of reference into our societies.
Expecially since we have nutters enough of our own.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on August 15, 2022, 09:37:20 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on August 14, 2022, 06:25:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 14, 2022, 02:35:47 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 14, 2022, 02:00:41 PMOutrageous.

While it's great news that he's survived seeing that is likely to lose an eye and needs serious help is really awfuly.

It is amazing that some people are so delusional to think this kind of barbaric nonsense  is somehow defending the honor of something.

that's because we're looking at this from another frame of reference.
And that frame doesn't change when crossing the borders into a western country.
Which is why it's a bad idea to let so many people with that faulty frame of reference into our societies.
Expecially since we have nutters enough of our own.

Well obviously we don't want every Pashtun in Pakistan moving in or something crazy but having Muslims here is pretty important. That is how ex-Muslims and liberal Muslims are made. And that is the only way that the fundamentalists can ultimately be defeated. Building walls and boxing them out will only make the situation worse I think.

Especially as in some of these countries, like Malaysia (and there are like 20 countries that do, all Muslim countries, I only single Malaysia out because I was always told they are a moderate nice Muslim country. Yikes), it is illegal to even be an ex-Muslim and that's insane. That's not a religion, that's a cult. You are born into a religion without your consent and then it is illegal to leave if you want to? That is such an abuse of human rights.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 15, 2022, 11:16:51 AM
Quote from: Malthus on August 14, 2022, 01:37:46 PMA legal Question: I read that the attacker of Rushdie was charged with attempted second-degree murder. Yet I also read that the authorities are stating that the attack was pre-planned.

I know nothing of the criminal law of New York - but why, if the attack was pre-planned, would he not be charged with attempted first-degree murder?

Because pre-planning is not an element of 1st degree murder in New York.

1st degree can be charged if the victim was killed in furtherance of an act of terrorism; Rushdie's case presents an interesting definitional question.  Because the fatwa was directed against him personally, it could be said not to fall within the definition of terrorism because it does not target the US government or the civilian population more generally. However, the target of the fatwa was not merely Rushdie himself but anyone that would exercise their free expression in a manner offensive to the ayatollahs.  The intent is both to harm Rudhdie and to intimidate others who might seek to do similarly.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on August 15, 2022, 01:03:11 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 15, 2022, 11:16:51 AM
Quote from: Malthus on August 14, 2022, 01:37:46 PMA legal Question: I read that the attacker of Rushdie was charged with attempted second-degree murder. Yet I also read that the authorities are stating that the attack was pre-planned.

I know nothing of the criminal law of New York - but why, if the attack was pre-planned, would he not be charged with attempted first-degree murder?

Because pre-planning is not an element of 1st degree murder in New York.

1st degree can be charged if the victim was killed in furtherance of an act of terrorism; Rushdie's case presents an interesting definitional question.  Because the fatwa was directed against him personally, it could be said not to fall within the definition of terrorism because it does not target the US government or the civilian population more generally. However, the target of the fatwa was not merely Rushdie himself but anyone that would exercise their free expression in a manner offensive to the ayatollahs.  The intent is both to harm Rudhdie and to intimidate others who might seek to do similarly.

That's interesting - the laws are truly different. What's the significance of designating something as first degree in New York? Is there a distinction made between premeditated and non-premeditated murder? In Canada, that's an important distinction.

I would imagine this ought to be a terrorist crime, as the idea was certainly to intimidate others and not just him, but I suppose again each place has its specific definition.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HVC on August 15, 2022, 02:02:40 PM
I'm glad he made it. Tried reading the satanic verses once. For a book with so much buzz on it I was expecting something better.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 15, 2022, 02:06:34 PM
Quote from: HVC on August 15, 2022, 02:02:40 PMI'm glad he made it. Tried reading the satanic verses once. For a book with so much buzz on it I was expecting something better.
I'd recommend Midnight's Children (particularly appropriate today), Shame or The Moor's Last Stand.

I think The Satanic Verses is good - but it's probably my least favourite of his books I've read. I think Midnight's Children especially is just incredible though.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HVC on August 15, 2022, 02:29:50 PM
Thanks, I'll give Midnight's Children  a try.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 15, 2022, 03:33:25 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 15, 2022, 01:03:11 PMThat's interesting - the laws are truly different. What's the significance of designating something as first degree in New York? Is there a distinction made between premeditated and non-premeditated murder? In Canada, that's an important distinction.

Premeditation was significant under the common law, under at least some versions of the Model Penal Code, and still exists in many state codes.  But some states have moved in the direction of defining capital (1st degree) murder by listing specific aggravating factors, like killing a peace officer, multiple killings, murder for hire, etc.  The notion that "cold blooded" planning killers are worse than "hothead" killers is not universally embraced anymore - IMO for good reason.

QuoteI would imagine this ought to be a terrorist crime, as the idea was certainly to intimidate others and not just him, but I suppose again each place has its specific definition.

I don't know much about the New York state case law defining terrorism.  It's possible the offense may be upgraded depending on results of investigation.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on August 16, 2022, 11:10:57 AM
I think there's a good debate to be had over whether premeditation makes murder worse. Though I admit I've never really considered it, I always just assumed that it did.

I suppose the main reasons are that it is more a reflection on one's essential character that they made a planned, deliberate decision to go out and kill someone, rather than acted on the impulse of the moment; and that such people are more dangerous because more likely to successfully kill someone they attack in the future and also more likely to get away with it. Certainly, we don't want people who can't control their impulses wandering around, so they are still murderers who should be locked up; but it seems more likely that an impulsive killer would be quickly caught (as they will not have planned out how to get away with it), and so less of a danger to society as well as being arguably less morally blameworthy.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 16, 2022, 11:20:30 AM
I always figured that we gave the heat of the moment guys a break because we could empathize a bit with them.  Dude walks in on his wife banging the mailman and caps him (or both), we think, "yeah that could've been me."
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on August 16, 2022, 11:52:31 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 15, 2022, 03:33:25 PMPremeditation was significant under the common law, under at least some versions of the Model Penal Code, and still exists in many state codes.  But some states have moved in the direction of defining capital (1st degree) murder by listing specific aggravating factors, like killing a peace officer, multiple killings, murder for hire, etc.  The notion that "cold blooded" planning killers are worse than "hothead" killers is not universally embraced anymore - IMO for good reason.
Premeditation is an aggravating factor in sentencing here. I can see it making sense as almost a higher level of intent than is sufficient for murder is not a worse crime but can warrant higher punishment.

A bit like the amount of pain or suffering someone is put through when they're killed is an aggravating factor.

Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 16, 2022, 11:20:30 AMI always figured that we gave the heat of the moment guys a break because we could empathize a bit with them.  Dude walks in on his wife banging the mailman and caps him (or both), we think, "yeah that could've been me."
Yeah in England there's a partial defence for "loss of self-control" which was created when the defence of provocation was abolished. Sexual infidelity is now explicitly excluded as a "qualifying trigger" for loss of self-control. Which means there's a particularly grim explanatory note in the legislation that walking in on your partner sexually abusing your child would be a qualifying trigger but because of the anger over abusing your child, not the sexual infidelity :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on August 23, 2022, 02:03:58 AM
A suspicious bag in central Stockholm during a festival with lots of people was removed by the police. It has been confirmed that it was a bomb. No info about suspects or leads is available.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on August 29, 2022, 03:44:10 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 23, 2022, 02:03:58 AMA suspicious bag in central Stockholm during a festival with lots of people was removed by the police. It has been confirmed that it was a bomb. No info about suspects or leads is available.

A group of 15-year-olds are suspects.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on August 29, 2022, 03:45:44 AM
A number of people glued themselves to one of the main roads leading to one of the major hospitals in Stockholm, blocking several ambulances from reaching the hospital.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on August 29, 2022, 03:51:36 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 29, 2022, 03:44:10 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 23, 2022, 02:03:58 AMA suspicious bag in central Stockholm during a festival with lots of people was removed by the police. It has been confirmed that it was a bomb. No info about suspects or leads is available.

A group of 15-year-olds are suspects.

Was there some sort of ideological motive involved, or is that still unclear?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on August 29, 2022, 04:05:11 AM
Quote from: Jacob on August 29, 2022, 03:51:36 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 29, 2022, 03:44:10 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 23, 2022, 02:03:58 AMA suspicious bag in central Stockholm during a festival with lots of people was removed by the police. It has been confirmed that it was a bomb. No info about suspects or leads is available.

A group of 15-year-olds are suspects.

Was there some sort of ideological motive involved, or is that still unclear?

No info yet that I've seen.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on August 30, 2022, 05:55:10 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 29, 2022, 03:45:44 AMA number of people glued themselves to one of the main roads leading to one of the major hospitals in Stockholm, blocking several ambulances from reaching the hospital.

File that one under "problems you can solve with a machete."
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on August 30, 2022, 07:17:46 AM
Quote from: grumbler on August 30, 2022, 05:55:10 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 29, 2022, 03:45:44 AMA number of people glued themselves to one of the main roads leading to one of the major hospitals in Stockholm, blocking several ambulances from reaching the hospital.

File that one under "problems you can solve with a machete."

Yeah. Criminals who think they are fighting a good fight are annoying af.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on November 14, 2022, 09:14:28 AM
A terrorist bombing in Istanbul's main shopping street killed six and injured many more yesterday; ISIL?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Larch on November 14, 2022, 09:21:51 AM
Quote from: mongers on November 14, 2022, 09:14:28 AMA terrorist bombing in Istanbul's main shopping street killed six and injured many more yesterday; ISIL?

Turkey, as usual, blames the Kurds.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on November 15, 2022, 02:27:36 PM
Quote from: The Larch on November 14, 2022, 09:21:51 AM
Quote from: mongers on November 14, 2022, 09:14:28 AMA terrorist bombing in Istanbul's main shopping street killed six and injured many more yesterday; ISIL?

Turkey, as usual, blames the Kurds.
Yeah, read that today.  They already know who did it, all the accomplices (all 41 of it), where the order came from, which group ordered it... Men, it almost looks like they already had a story prepared for the next attack.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on November 15, 2022, 03:39:44 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 15, 2022, 02:27:36 PM
Quote from: The Larch on November 14, 2022, 09:21:51 AM
Quote from: mongers on November 14, 2022, 09:14:28 AMA terrorist bombing in Istanbul's main shopping street killed six and injured many more yesterday; ISIL?

Turkey, as usual, blames the Kurds.
Yeah, read that today.  They already know who did it, all the accomplices (all 41 of it), where the order came from, which group ordered it... Men, it almost looks like they already had a story prepared for the next attack.


Then it's likely to be Daesh or some other islamist group but Erdogan won't recognize it.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on November 15, 2022, 03:59:42 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on November 15, 2022, 03:39:44 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 15, 2022, 02:27:36 PM
Quote from: The Larch on November 14, 2022, 09:21:51 AM
Quote from: mongers on November 14, 2022, 09:14:28 AMA terrorist bombing in Istanbul's main shopping street killed six and injured many more yesterday; ISIL?

Turkey, as usual, blames the Kurds.
Yeah, read that today.  They already know who did it, all the accomplices (all 41 of it), where the order came from, which group ordered it... Men, it almost looks like they already had a story prepared for the next attack.


Then it's likely to be Daesh or some other islamist group but Erdogan won't recognize it.
If so, can't expect Erdogan to push his fellow travellers under the bus eh.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on November 15, 2022, 05:23:15 PM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on November 15, 2022, 03:59:42 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on November 15, 2022, 03:39:44 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 15, 2022, 02:27:36 PM
Quote from: The Larch on November 14, 2022, 09:21:51 AM
Quote from: mongers on November 14, 2022, 09:14:28 AMA terrorist bombing in Istanbul's main shopping street killed six and injured many more yesterday; ISIL?

Turkey, as usual, blames the Kurds.
Yeah, read that today.  They already know who did it, all the accomplices (all 41 of it), where the order came from, which group ordered it... Men, it almost looks like they already had a story prepared for the next attack.


Then it's likely to be Daesh or some other islamist group but Erdogan won't recognize it.
If so, can't expect Erdogan to push his fellow travellers under the bus eh.

Well, Iznogoud lost control of the situation again as the typical wizard apprentice.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on December 07, 2022, 04:09:18 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63885028

QuoteGermany arrests 25 accused of plotting coup

Twenty-five people have been arrested in raids across Germany on suspicion of plotting to overthrow the government.

German reports say the group of far-right and ex-military figures planned to storm the parliament building, the Reichstag, and seize power.

A German man referred to as a prince called Heinrich XIII, 71, is alleged to have been central to their plans.

According to federal prosecutors, he is one of two alleged ringleaders among those arrested across 11 German states.

The plotters are said to include members of the extremist Reichsbürger [Citizens of the Reich] movement, which has long been in the sights of German police over violent attacks and racist conspiracy theories. They also refuse to recognise the modern German state.

An estimated 50 men and women are alleged to have been part of the group who are said to have plotted to overthrow the republic and replace it with a new state modelled on the Germany of 1871 - an empire called the Second Reich.


"We don't yet have a name for this group," said a spokeswoman for the federal prosecutor's office.

Raids took place in much of the country and two people were arrested in Austria and Italy, Germany's DPA news agency reported. Those detained were due to be questioned later in the day.

Justice Minister Marco Buschmann tweeted that a major anti-terror operation was taking place and a suspected "armed attack on constitutional bodies was planned".

The federal prosecutor said the group had been plotting a violent coup since November 2021.

Former members of the military were also a significant part of the coup plot, reports said. They included ex-elite soldiers from special units.

The plotters had already established plans to rule Germany, the federal prosecutor's office said. Members understood they could only realise their goals by "military means and violence against state representatives" and that included carrying out killings.

Public broadcaster ZDF reported that a former far-right member of the lower house of parliament, the Bundestag, was also part of the plot and was lined up to be installed as the group's justice minister, with Prince Heinrich as leader.

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on December 07, 2022, 05:22:52 AM
*laughs in GOP*
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 07, 2022, 07:46:11 AM
Mad. I did not know that Treaty of Versailles truthers were a thing :huh: :blink:
Quote75-year-old arrested for plotting to kidnap German health minister
The professor of theology also procured weapons and explosives to bring down the country's power grid, authorities say.
By Tristan Fiedler
October 14, 2022 2:35 pm CET

German police in Rhineland-Palatinate on Thursday arrested a 75-year-old woman for plotting to kidnap Health Minister Karl Lauterbach and bring down the country's power grid.

According to reports by the German news outlet T-Online the woman is called Elisabeth R., a professor of theology from the University of Mainz who has worked as a protestant pastor.

She was active in the militant anti-vax movement that holds Lauterbach accountable for the country's hawkish approach toward COVID-19 and sees him as their arch-enemy. Elisabeth R. promoted conspiracy theories about "secretive remodeling of brain structures" in this context and made anti-Semitic remarks about the "world jewry."

Four other members of a group called "United Patriots," of which Elisabeth R. is the leader, have also been arrested, according to the authorities. She was already stripped of her pension after attracting attention due to anti-constitutional statements years ago.

Elisabeth R. was involved in procuring weapons and explosives, and had proposed specific dates for the implementation of the plan, authorities said. The group's goal was to incite a civil war in Germany and to restore the German empire of 1871, authorities added.

Elisabeth R. has signed an open letter stating that the Treaty of Versailles had not come about legally and that she still lives a parliamentary monarchy — without an emperor since October 28, 1918.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2022, 08:01:40 AM
That is not a very typical domestic terrorist background.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on December 07, 2022, 08:03:49 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 07, 2022, 07:46:11 AMMad. I did not know that Treaty of Versailles truthers were a thing :huh: :blink:
Quote75-year-old arrested for plotting to kidnap German health minister
The professor of theology also procured weapons and explosives to bring down the country's power grid, authorities say.
By Tristan Fiedler
October 14, 2022 2:35 pm CET

German police in Rhineland-Palatinate on Thursday arrested a 75-year-old woman for plotting to kidnap Health Minister Karl Lauterbach and bring down the country's power grid.

According to reports by the German news outlet T-Online the woman is called Elisabeth R., a professor of theology from the University of Mainz who has worked as a protestant pastor.

She was active in the militant anti-vax movement that holds Lauterbach accountable for the country's hawkish approach toward COVID-19 and sees him as their arch-enemy. Elisabeth R. promoted conspiracy theories about "secretive remodeling of brain structures" in this context and made anti-Semitic remarks about the "world jewry."

Four other members of a group called "United Patriots," of which Elisabeth R. is the leader, have also been arrested, according to the authorities. She was already stripped of her pension after attracting attention due to anti-constitutional statements years ago.

Elisabeth R. was involved in procuring weapons and explosives, and had proposed specific dates for the implementation of the plan, authorities said. The group's goal was to incite a civil war in Germany and to restore the German empire of 1871, authorities added.

Elisabeth R. has signed an open letter stating that the Treaty of Versailles had not come about legally and that she still lives a parliamentary monarchy — without an emperor since October 28, 1918.

So this and Syt's posted item about the German coup plot are unrelated? :hmm:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on December 07, 2022, 08:32:41 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2022, 08:01:40 AMThat is not a very typical domestic terrorist background.

The estimate of persons having such beliefs vary, but in general authorities estimate between 15,000-20,000 people who believe the Reichsbürger stuff in some form. Though many of them will be harmless nutters, there's probably an estimated 5-10% or so right-wing extremists and/or people with a proclivity towards violence.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Zanza on December 07, 2022, 08:38:19 AM
There is a relation between the two cases.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 07, 2022, 08:46:31 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 07, 2022, 07:46:11 AMMad. I did not know that Treaty of Versailles truthers were a thing :huh: :blink:

Elisabeth R. has signed an open letter stating that the Treaty of Versailles had not come about legally and that she still lives a parliamentary monarchy — without an emperor since October 28, 1918.

I believe it's more the Federal Republic of Germany being denied legal existence, that the cession of Alsace and Moselle to France.
Reichsbürgerin, in her case, makes it pretty obvious.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 07, 2022, 11:47:01 AM
Maybe there will be a Karlist resurgence in Spain.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on December 07, 2022, 11:51:27 AM
I haven't heard of any active movement in Sweden to reverse the 1809 military coup, but there may be.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on December 07, 2022, 01:33:45 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2022, 08:01:40 AMThat is not a very typical domestic terrorist background.
Religion of Peace.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 07, 2022, 01:40:11 PM
Quote from: Syt on December 07, 2022, 08:32:41 AMThe estimate of persons having such beliefs vary, but in general authorities estimate between 15,000-20,000 people who believe the Reichsbürger stuff in some form. Though many of them will be harmless nutters, there's probably an estimated 5-10% or so right-wing extremists and/or people with a proclivity towards violence.
Yeah I still get Yi's point though. My image of a domestic terrorist is probably an angry, socially isolated young man who's radicalising on the internet. Not a 75 year old theology professor or Prince Heinrich XIII:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjXtVuaXgAAN2f2?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)

The whole story is very strange.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Razgovory on December 07, 2022, 01:45:50 PM
It sounds like Sovereign Citizens in the US.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Barrister on December 07, 2022, 01:46:50 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 07, 2022, 01:40:11 PMThe whole story is very strange.

Not really.  I know in Canada we there's a sub-group of people with broadly similar ideas about how the current government is illegitimate because it's a corporation - and Canada hasn't had multiple disruptions in its basic government structure like Germany has.

Yes - often called Sovereign citizens or "free men", and they often pick up US concepts despite Canada and the US having totally different constitutional underpinnings.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Barrister on December 07, 2022, 01:51:38 PM
If you ever want to do a deep dive into "sovereign citizen" legal theory (and it's complete debunkment) here's a lengthy ALberta court decision that regularly gets cited all over Canada that goes through each and every argument and explains why it's profoundly stupid.

https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Solmyr on December 07, 2022, 02:35:37 PM
Is that the grandma who wants to bring back the Kaiser?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 07, 2022, 02:51:22 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on December 07, 2022, 02:35:37 PMIs that the grandma who wants to bring back the Kaiser?

That's their proposed Kaiser, I believe.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on December 07, 2022, 05:49:41 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 07, 2022, 01:51:38 PMIf you ever want to do a deep dive into "sovereign citizen" legal theory (and it's complete debunkment) here's a lengthy ALberta court decision that regularly gets cited all over Canada that goes through each and every argument and explains why it's profoundly stupid.

https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html

I've seen that case cited in the wild!

It's a great, if very long, read.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Malthus on December 07, 2022, 05:53:07 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 07, 2022, 02:51:22 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on December 07, 2022, 02:35:37 PMIs that the grandma who wants to bring back the Kaiser?

That's their proposed Kaiser, I believe.

Pickelhaubes for everyone!
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on December 07, 2022, 06:04:08 PM
We have pickelhaubes in Sweden. So does Chile. :)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2022, 08:04:13 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 07, 2022, 01:51:38 PMIf you ever want to do a deep dive into "sovereign citizen" legal theory (and it's complete debunkment) here's a lengthy ALberta court decision that regularly gets cited all over Canada that goes through each and every argument and explains why it's profoundly stupid.

https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html

I couldn't make it through the table of contents.

I watch a lot of sovereign citizen videos.  I watched big chunks of the Darrell Brooks trial.  These guys seem to be batting 0 for a million yet they keep going.  What kind of mindset says I will pursue a legal strategy that has zero chance of succeeding?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on December 07, 2022, 08:21:06 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2022, 08:04:13 PM
Quote from: Barrister on December 07, 2022, 01:51:38 PMIf you ever want to do a deep dive into "sovereign citizen" legal theory (and it's complete debunkment) here's a lengthy ALberta court decision that regularly gets cited all over Canada that goes through each and every argument and explains why it's profoundly stupid.

https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html

I couldn't make it through the table of contents.

I watch a lot of sovereign citizen videos.  I watched big chunks of the Darrell Brooks trial.  These guys seem to be batting 0 for a million yet they keep going.  What kind of mindset says I will pursue a legal strategy that has zero chance of succeeding?
Some day the people will rise up and the Statist Leftists will be brought to RUIN.  JFK Jr's return will be the beginning of the end of the corporation of United States.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2022, 09:29:46 PM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on December 07, 2022, 08:21:06 PMSome day the people will rise up and the Statist Leftists will be brought to RUIN.  JFK Jr's return will be the beginning of the end of the corporation of United States.


As I've mentioned before, Sovereign Citizens don't fit very cleanly into the left/right divide.  Granted, on the one hand you have the beardy white rural folks who fit the survivalist live free or die theme, but on the other hand if not half then at least a sizeable minority, and certainly disporportionate to their share of population, of the clips I see are of blacks mouthing the exact same sovereign citizen mumbo jumbo.  And that fits the racist fascist police theme.  The only difference is that some of the blacks call themselves Moorish Citizens.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Zanza on December 08, 2022, 06:44:06 AM
With the German Reichsbürgers it is clear: they are all right extremists.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Legbiter on December 08, 2022, 07:42:46 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 07, 2022, 04:09:18 AMhttps://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63885028

QuoteGermany arrests 25 accused of plotting coup

Twenty-five people have been arrested in raids across Germany on suspicion of plotting to overthrow the government.

German reports say the group of far-right and ex-military figures planned to storm the parliament building, the Reichstag, and seize power.

A German man referred to as a prince called Heinrich XIII, 71, is alleged to have been central to their plans.

Who is this dude and what is his lineage? Are there no spare Hohenzollern lying around for doomed pensioner romantics to rally around?  :hmm:  :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Legbiter on December 08, 2022, 07:51:24 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjW7N1EXgAEB5vw?format=jpg&name=medium)

Future emperor of the German Reich. :hmm: Not with that tie knot I think.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: grumbler on December 08, 2022, 09:30:03 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 07, 2022, 08:04:13 PMI couldn't make it through the table of contents.

I watch a lot of sovereign citizen videos.  I watched big chunks of the Darrell Brooks trial.  These guys seem to be batting 0 for a million yet they keep going.  What kind of mindset says I will pursue a legal strategy that has zero chance of succeeding?

The mindset that says "I am infinitely more intelligent than these legal buffoons, and the others who tried this strategy failed because they were not nearly as smart as I am."
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Zanza on December 08, 2022, 10:26:48 AM
Quote from: Legbiter on December 08, 2022, 07:42:46 AM
Quote from: Syt on December 07, 2022, 04:09:18 AMhttps://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63885028

QuoteGermany arrests 25 accused of plotting coup

Twenty-five people have been arrested in raids across Germany on suspicion of plotting to overthrow the government.

German reports say the group of far-right and ex-military figures planned to storm the parliament building, the Reichstag, and seize power.

A German man referred to as a prince called Heinrich XIII, 71, is alleged to have been central to their plans.

Who is this dude and what is his lineage? Are there no spare Hohenzollern lying around for doomed pensioner romantics to rally around?  :hmm:  :(
The current Hohenzollern pretender is suing the government because he wants certain pieces of art as well as Cecilienhof castle in Potsdam back. These were seized under the occupation authority by the Red Army in 1945.

Supposedly he is in favor of the republic though...
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on December 08, 2022, 10:30:19 AM
Is he actually a pretender if he favors the republic? He doesn't claim the throne does he?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Legbiter on December 08, 2022, 03:05:30 PM
I'm rather impressed a 75 year old pensioner can display enough will to power to become a ringleader in an armed coup plot in a modern Western European state.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on December 08, 2022, 03:21:40 PM
Heinrich XIII? Of what? The news says Heinrich XIII of Reuss, but that guy died in 1817.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_XIII,_Prince_Reuss_of_Greiz

Damn German Royals are so complicated.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Valmy on December 08, 2022, 03:27:20 PM
Oh ok here he is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Reuss

Well he sounds like a nut and I don't see that he has any claim to any German throne.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Zanza on December 11, 2022, 02:11:00 PM
Both Reuss lines seem to have named all males Heinrich, e.g. a Heinrich LXVII ruled one of those principalities in the 19th century. Every century, they restarted at I.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_LXVII,_Prince_Reuss_Younger_Line
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on December 11, 2022, 03:37:09 PM
Yeah, the New York Times spoke with the head of the Reuss family and mentioned all males of the line are named Heinrich. The head of the family noted that this guy involved in the extremist plot is 17th in line to head the house, so he would not even be the head of his family's old principality if it were reinstituted, let alone head of the entire Reich.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on December 11, 2022, 03:40:29 PM
It does make one wonder if the French and Russians had the right idea of trying to kill these sorts off when they overthrew them.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on December 11, 2022, 04:19:06 PM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on December 11, 2022, 03:37:09 PMYeah, the New York Times spoke with the head of the Reuss family and mentioned all males of the line are named Heinrich. The head of the family noted that this guy involved in the extremist plot is 17th in line to head the house, so he would not even be the head of his family's old principality if it were reinstituted, let alone head of the entire Reich.
There's an easy solution to that. :sleep:  :shutup:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on December 11, 2022, 04:24:09 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 08, 2022, 03:27:20 PMOh ok here he is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Reuss

Well he sounds like a nut and I don't see that he has any claim to any German throne.
I'm not entirely convinced conspiracy theorists and far right nuts are that really attached to traditions and proper line of succession. 

Worst case scenario, declare the first 16 ones traitors, strip them of their titles and... voilà.  He his head of the family.  As for being head of State, heir to the German throne, it would not be the first time in the history of manking that someone illegitimate takes power in a country.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Sheilbh on December 11, 2022, 04:31:20 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 11, 2022, 04:19:06 PM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on December 11, 2022, 03:37:09 PMYeah, the New York Times spoke with the head of the Reuss family and mentioned all males of the line are named Heinrich. The head of the family noted that this guy involved in the extremist plot is 17th in line to head the house, so he would not even be the head of his family's old principality if it were reinstituted, let alone head of the entire Reich.
There's an easy solution to that. :sleep:  :shutup:
The amount this serious and alarming far-right coup plot overlaps with the plot of an Ealing comedy where all the characters are played by Alec Guinness is disconcerting.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on December 11, 2022, 05:26:09 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on December 11, 2022, 04:31:20 PM
Quote from: viper37 on December 11, 2022, 04:19:06 PM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on December 11, 2022, 03:37:09 PMYeah, the New York Times spoke with the head of the Reuss family and mentioned all males of the line are named Heinrich. The head of the family noted that this guy involved in the extremist plot is 17th in line to head the house, so he would not even be the head of his family's old principality if it were reinstituted, let alone head of the entire Reich.
There's an easy solution to that. :sleep:  :shutup:
The amount this serious and alarming far-right coup plot overlaps with the plot of an Ealing comedy where all the characters are played by Alec Guinness is disconcerting.
True, we laugh about it because it didn't succeed and they were all arrested before they sprang into action.

But it could have been like Sao Tomé and Principe a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on December 11, 2022, 07:32:00 PM
I mean this plot is funny and stupid, but I'll remind that these guys were stockpiling weapons and training with them--it very easily could have turned into something really bad.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on December 12, 2022, 12:29:41 AM
Quote from: OttoVonBismarck on December 11, 2022, 07:32:00 PMI mean this plot is funny and stupid, but I'll remind that these guys were stockpiling weapons and training with them--it very easily could have turned into something really bad.
Like I said, Sao Tomé and Principe was a good scare and similarly involved a former member of the parliament.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Zanza on December 12, 2022, 12:43:53 AM
They had an active special forces soldier in their ranks as well, which is rather more dangerous.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Larch on December 12, 2022, 05:59:26 AM
Apparently one of the detainees is David Alaba's father in law, who is a famous chef in Germany. It's as if Gordon Ramsay was trying to overthrow the British Monarchy.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Solmyr on December 12, 2022, 12:38:52 PM
I wonder, would this sort of thing really work? I assume most of the people in Germany and the German army wouldn't recognize whatever new regime these guys tried to create. Let alone the rest of the EU.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on December 12, 2022, 12:44:33 PM
President Ye in the White House might recognize the new regime.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Zanza on December 12, 2022, 01:23:36 PM
Never heard of the chef before. If he was actually famous, he would not be called Alaba's FIL, but have a claim to fame himself. So not really comparable to Gordon Ramsey.

That said, we had a fairly well-known vegan chef lose it and turn full conspiracy theorist / Nazi during the height of the pandemic. He got the nickname Avocadolf.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Zanza on December 12, 2022, 01:25:17 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on December 12, 2022, 12:38:52 PMI wonder, would this sort of thing really work? I assume most of the people in Germany and the German army wouldn't recognize whatever new regime these guys tried to create. Let alone the rest of the EU.

No, of course not. Germany has a fairly stable and resilient state and society.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: OttoVonBismarck on December 12, 2022, 01:29:04 PM
Never trust vegans.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Larch on December 12, 2022, 01:33:16 PM
Quote from: Zanza on December 12, 2022, 01:23:36 PMNever heard of the chef before. If he was actually famous, he would not be called Alaba's FIL, but have a claim to fame himself. So not really comparable to Gordon Ramsey.

That's how it was reported in the Spanish press, so it seemed normal to me that they'd stress the relation to Alaba.

QuoteAvocadolf.

:lmfao:
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on December 12, 2022, 02:02:07 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on December 12, 2022, 12:38:52 PMI wonder, would this sort of thing really work? I assume most of the people in Germany and the German army wouldn't recognize whatever new regime these guys tried to create. Let alone the rest of the EU.


I don't see a putsch, even as farcical as this attempt is, going far, to be honest.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on December 23, 2022, 02:34:50 PM
Some Christmas cheer from Le Fasc.

BBC News - Paris shooting: Three dead and several injured in attack
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64077668
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 23, 2022, 02:49:28 PM
QuoteClashes later broke out between police and a large group who had gathered at the scene in the aftermath of the attack.

Footage showed people starting a fire in the middle of the street and throwing chairs and other objects, with officers clad in riot gear responding by throwing tear gas.

Nice.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on December 23, 2022, 04:47:48 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on December 23, 2022, 02:49:28 PM
QuoteClashes later broke out between police and a large group who had gathered at the scene in the aftermath of the attack.

Footage showed people starting a fire in the middle of the street and throwing chairs and other objects, with officers clad in riot gear responding by throwing tear gas.

Nice.

Paris actually. Nice is much further south.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on March 23, 2023, 10:54:34 AM
A suspect has been apprehended in Montreal this morning, following information transmitted to the RCMP from the FBI:
RCMP arrests St-Laurent resident of 18 years old on allegation of terrorism (https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/rcmp-arrests-st-laurent-resident-on-allegations-of-terrorism)

QuoteThe RCMP announced Thursday that they arrested an 18-year-old St-Laurent resident based on information from the FBI alleging he was involved in terrorism.
Article content

"Based on intelligence from the Federal Bureau of Investigation, this morning RCMP officers arrested Mohamed Amine Assal, 18, of (the St-Laurent borough). This police operation was aimed at disrupting the suspicious activities of Mr. Assal and ensuring he undertakes to keep the peace pursuant to (a peace bond)," the RCMP stated in a release.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Syt on May 09, 2023, 01:24:07 AM
Who said right wing extremists can't have a sense of humor?

https://www.newsweek.com/stewart-rhodes-wants-time-served-oath-keepers-january-6-1799011

QuoteOath Keepers Leader Wants Time Served Credit for Running Group

Attorneys for Oath Keepers leader Stewart Rhodes want the years he served as the organization's leader to count toward his potential 25-year prison sentence, arguing the "entirely volunteer" organization's history of public service goes "above and beyond" what would be considered "good community works" that are typically weighed in federal sentencing guidelines.

Rhodes, a Yale law school graduate, founded and led the right-wing organization for 12 years leading up to its involvement in the riot at the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021. He was ultimately found guilty on multiple sedition charges for allegedly helping orchestrate the riot in an effort to overturn the 2020 election result and could spend the next 25 years in prison after federal prosecutors requested the quarter-century sentence over the weekend.

Federal prosecutors said that Rhodes conspired with other members of the organization via encrypted and private communications applications to travel to Washington, D.C. to disrupt the vote count, going as far as laying plans to bring weapons to the area to support the operation.

According to the indictment, the group, led by Rhodes, sought to channel protective gear, firearms and ammunition into Washington, organize training in paramilitary combat tactics, and orchestrate the disruption of the presidential transfer of power. Rhodes himself spent a total of $33,000 obtaining an arsenal of weapons and gear in the days before and after the January 6, 2021, attack, the Department of Justice said.

All combined were crimes prosecutors said at the time carried as much as a 20-year prison sentence. Prosecutors, however, wanted more.

In court papers Friday, the U.S. government said Rhodes "exploited his vast public influence" as leader of the militia group to persuade others to join in the attack, qualifying him for far more prison time than the sentences others tied to the conspiracy had received. To date, the longest sentence levied in the scheme was 14 years, while most sentences to date have been under five years. Rhodes, they said, deserved more than that.

"(Rhodes) used his talents for manipulation to goad more than twenty other American citizens into using force, intimidation, and violence to seek to impose their preferred result on a U.S. presidential election," the filing reads. "This conduct created a grave risk to our democratic system of government and must be met with swift and severe punishment."

Attorneys for Rhodes, however, say such a sentence would be undeserved.

In a 70-page court filing from May 8, Rhodes' attorneys argued Rhodes' comments in the lead-up to January 6 were politically protected speech, noting emailed communications to members where he specifically stressed non-violence. But the ruling also sought to paint a different picture of the Oath Keepers than the one outlined by the prosecution.

In their telling, the Oath Keepers had an exemplary history of community involvement during times of natural disasters and civil unrest Rhodes' attorneys said should be contemplated as part of the judge's decision, and disproved allegations by prosecutors and the press the far-right, anti-government militia group had inherently extremist aims.

In one instance, the Oath Keepers provided security for a local fire department in the wake of Hurricane Harvey, and delivered wellness checks for stranded citizens, Rhodes' attorneys said in the filing. During the riots that resulted from the killing of Michael Brown by police in Ferguson, Missouri as well as the police-involved killing of Breonna Taylor, the group provided security for businesses in Ferguson as well as Taylor's hometown of Louisville, Kentucky from looters—often toting firearms—at the request of shopkeepers who felt threatened by the violence.

The group was not about "extreme" ideals, they said: they were about "American" ideals.

"Much as the character of those within the Oath Keepers has been misconstrued and mischaracterized by others, so too has their history and actions," the court filing read. "The organization from its inception was dedicated to philanthropy, aiding others in times of both civil unrest as well as natural disasters, community preparedness, and legal education.

"Those efforts are the natural result of the underlying character and principles of its founder and is reflective of his intent for those principles to be one of the foundations of the Oath Keepers organization."

Rhodes, his attorneys wrote, embodied that ethic—traits that should be kept in mind when weighing his sentence.

"If a person is judged by their character, that character is proven by their actions," the filing read. "And if one is honest, the character of Mr. Rhodes is easily settled upon. From its inception, Mr. Rhodes gave his life to the Oath Keepers. Certainly, this court too should consider this in the totality of 'the history and characteristics of the defendant.'"

Newsweek reached out to Rhodes' attorney, Phillip Linder, via email for comment.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on May 09, 2023, 02:04:15 AM
 :lol:

A roll of the dice on corrupt courts in their favour or creating a final bit of evidence for proving they're corrupt against them so when the time comes the fuhrer can free him?

Surely they can't be meaning it straight.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: The Brain on October 16, 2023, 03:24:27 PM
Two Swedes murdered in Brussels. Appears to be an act of terrorism.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on October 16, 2023, 03:31:03 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 16, 2023, 03:24:27 PMTwo Swedes murdered in Brussels. Appears to be an act of terrorism.

:(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Savonarola on October 16, 2023, 03:41:38 PM
Yesterday there were bomb threats at the Louvre and Versailles (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/louvre-versailles-evacuated-after-bomb-threats-as-france-on-high-alert-after-teacher-s-killing/ar-AA1ifHBo) (fortunately false.)

Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 16, 2023, 04:09:56 PM
The assassination of a French teacher was not false, unfortunately.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231016-french-schools-to-honour-teacher-killed-in-terror-attack (https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231016-french-schools-to-honour-teacher-killed-in-terror-attack)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on October 16, 2023, 04:43:15 PM
People are seeing armed gunmen everywhere now.  There was a false alarm in a Montreal school today, students and teachers confined for a part of the afternoon after "people armed with firearms were seen".
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on October 16, 2023, 04:52:01 PM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 16, 2023, 04:09:56 PMThe assassination of a French teacher was not false, unfortunately.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231016-french-schools-to-honour-teacher-killed-in-terror-attack (https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231016-french-schools-to-honour-teacher-killed-in-terror-attack)

 :(
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: mongers on October 16, 2023, 05:02:22 PM
Likely Islamist terrorist attack in Brussels kills 2 Swedish people, probably football fans there for the Euro qualifier that's now been abandoned.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 17, 2023, 12:53:10 AM
Quote from: mongers on October 16, 2023, 05:02:22 PMLikely Islamist terrorist attack in Brussels kills 2 Swedish people, probably football fans there for the Euro qualifier that's now been abandoned.

Tunesian, illegal, known criminal (human trafficking), still on the run.

Just on the news: there's a chance they shot the swine
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 17, 2023, 03:36:15 AM
Confirmed now, suspect died from wounds by Belgian police:

Brussels shooting: Police shoot dead attacker who killed Swedes

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67131128 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67131128)
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 18, 2023, 05:22:32 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 17, 2023, 03:36:15 AMConfirmed now, suspect died from wounds by Belgian police:

Brussels shooting: Police shoot dead attacker who killed Swedes

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67131128 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67131128)

Guy got 100s if not 1000s of likes on his Facebook too. Generally people with diverse names.
Shouldn't be too hard to find those living in the country and doing what needs to be done.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Josquius on October 18, 2023, 05:45:27 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 18, 2023, 05:22:32 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 17, 2023, 03:36:15 AMConfirmed now, suspect died from wounds by Belgian police:

Brussels shooting: Police shoot dead attacker who killed Swedes

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67131128 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67131128)

Guy got 100s if not 1000s of likes on his Facebook too. Generally people with diverse names.
Shouldn't be too hard to find those living in the country and doing what needs to be done.

Would be wonderful if they are dumb enough to use their real details and volunteer themselves for a watch list like so.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 18, 2023, 05:57:22 AM
Quote from: Josquius on October 18, 2023, 05:45:27 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 18, 2023, 05:22:32 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 17, 2023, 03:36:15 AMConfirmed now, suspect died from wounds by Belgian police:

Brussels shooting: Police shoot dead attacker who killed Swedes

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67131128 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67131128)

Guy got 100s if not 1000s of likes on his Facebook too. Generally people with diverse names.
Shouldn't be too hard to find those living in the country and doing what needs to be done.

Would be wonderful if they are dumb enough to use their real details and volunteer themselves for a watch list like so.

Too bad it's Belgium though. Bananakingdom at the heart of the eu

Anyway, threats have been made against multiple European airports. Nothing too serious apparently, but still. Next time might be worse
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 18, 2023, 09:06:08 AM
Quote from: Josquius on October 18, 2023, 05:45:27 AM
Quote from: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 18, 2023, 05:22:32 AM
Quote from: Duque de Bragança on October 17, 2023, 03:36:15 AMConfirmed now, suspect died from wounds by Belgian police:

Brussels shooting: Police shoot dead attacker who killed Swedes

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67131128 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67131128)

Guy got 100s if not 1000s of likes on his Facebook too. Generally people with diverse names.
Shouldn't be too hard to find those living in the country and doing what needs to be done.

Would be wonderful if they are dumb enough to use their real details and volunteer themselves for a watch list like so.

I am not sure who uses Facebook anymore but I assume that the people who are left don't know about such things.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Jacob on October 18, 2023, 11:33:17 AM
Is it possible that some of those likes are from bots and fake accounts used as part of social media influence campaigns?
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on October 18, 2023, 03:29:12 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 18, 2023, 09:06:08 AMI am not sure who uses Facebook anymore but I assume that the people who are left don't know about such things.
:rolleyes:
I use FB.  Most of my friends and family are on FB, it's a convenient tool to keep in touch.

As for people using their real names or not, it's irrevelant. FB logs your IP adress each time you login and keeps it forever.  All a police force has to do is ask nicely and FB will provide who is behind the IP.  (ok, they may require a warrant).
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: crazy canuck on October 18, 2023, 03:47:53 PM
OK, I know that old people use facebook  :D
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Grey Fox on October 18, 2023, 05:36:18 PM
My nephew is a marketing influencer thingie and he has been on Instagram for years making a living. He recently turned on simultaneously posting on Facebook and he was so surprised at the many messages of where have you been from his family members. 😆
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on October 19, 2023, 12:44:37 AM
Quote from: Jacob on October 18, 2023, 11:33:17 AMIs it possible that some of those likes are from bots and fake accounts used as part of social media influence campaigns?

Maybe, or more realistically it's all real accounts and many of those people just hate our societies. As indicated by research done by Koopmans where the amount of fundamentalists is found to be quite high even at its lowest.
Remember that Brussel is jihad central in western Europe, that its political structures are rotten to the core and most of its politicians are either Muslims themselves or heavily pandering to the fundamentalist vote.
Title: Re: Acts of Terrorism megathread
Post by: viper37 on January 11, 2024, 11:56:28 AM
RCMP is investigating a possible terror attack in Chicoutimi (Saguenay) during Christmas time.

Now, where is it?  Because it's not exactly the kind of city that gets mostly spoken of in international circles when Quebec a d Canada are mentionned...  Look at the Gulf of St Lawrence, follow the river toward the Great Lakes.  Take a right toward the next big river (Saguenay river, coincidentally), sail up north keeping to your right.  Next river, Saguenay is there, born from the merger of Chicoutimi and Jonquière.

This as far north as I went personally, though my company had contracts on the other side of the big lake further up north.  Anyway, I digress.

So, as I was saying, terror attack.  A restaurant chef attacked 3 employees with a knife.  He posted his support for Hamas the night before and hinted that something would happen.  He claimed support for Hamas again before attacking the employees .

Use the translator:
https://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/justice-et-faits-divers/2024-01-11/violente-agression-au-couteau-a-chicoutimi/la-piste-terroriste-envisagee.php