Israel-Hamas War 2023

[Admiral Yi]

Okay, so the argument I'm putting forward is one I've heard as coming from within Israel, from Israelis.

Why in the world did you not say this at the beginning instead of arguing for three pages whether it's true or not?

I recognized your sarcasm and responded with sarcasm of my own. You failed to recognize. Point for me

Failure to recognize sarcasm disputed. 

[Jacob]

Why in the world did you not say this at the beginning instead of arguing for three pages whether it's true or not?

... because others had already stated that this point of view originated within Israel. I was surprised at your vehemence in arguing against it, but accept that I could have restated the origin to shorten the argument.

On the upside, we managed to have some mutually respectful conversation on a contentious topic, so that counts as a plus, right? 

Failure to recognize sarcasm disputed. 

Hmm. I guess we'll have to send it to VAR review.

[Admiral Yi]

... because others had already stated that this point of view originated within Israel. I was surprised at your vehemence in arguing against it, but accept that I could have restated the origin to shorten the argument.

Where and when was this?  I missed it.

On the upside, we managed to have some mutually respectful conversation on a contentious topic, so that counts as a plus, right? 

It got a little testy.  Partial credit.

[OttoVonBismarck]

How many would have died if ISIS had been allowed to keep killing people?

ISIS wasn't really mass killing people in cities it had control of, it was primarily killing people it was fighting in attempts to take more territory, and religious minorities in areas where they were captured. But this isn't that different from Hamas--which is certainly capable of, and willing, to kill lots of people outside Gaza, but isn't generally just randomly killing people inside of Gaza.

[viper37]

How many would have died if ISIS had been allowed to keep killing people?

ISIS wasn't really mass killing people in cities it had control of, it was primarily killing people it was fighting in attempts to take more territory, and religious minorities in areas where they were captured. But this isn't that different from Hamas--which is certainly capable of, and willing, to kill lots of people outside Gaza, but isn't generally just randomly killing people inside of Gaza.

It's like saying the Nazis weren't really killing people in Germany anymore in 1945, so the Allies should have stopped the war outside of Germany.

[Valmy]

It's like saying the Nazis weren't really killing people in Germany anymore in 1945, so the Allies should have stopped the war outside of Germany.

Except the Germans were killing tons of people in Germany in 1945...

[viper37]

It's like saying the Nazis weren't really killing people in Germany anymore in 1945, so the Allies should have stopped the war outside of Germany.

Except the Germans were killing tons of people in Germany in 1945...

Well, true, they were still killing people, but much less than 1944.  

And I don't have the breakdown by year, by camps, or even just by country.

Besides, they were busy destroying evidence, preparing their escape and so on.

Compared to how many they killed in 1943-1944 in Eastern Europe, or how many of their own people they had killed before the war even started, it certainly must have been less?

[Admiral Yi]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/E0CauHRF3RY

I enjoyed this clip of Romney confronting a protestor in the Capitol.

[Iormlund]

Carpet bombing ...

[Valmy]

It's like saying the Nazis weren't really killing people in Germany anymore in 1945, so the Allies should have stopped the war outside of Germany.

Except the Germans were killing tons of people in Germany in 1945...

Well, true, they were still killing people, but much less than 1944. 

And I don't have the breakdown by year, by camps, or even just by country.

Besides, they were busy destroying evidence, preparing their escape and so on.

Compared to how many they killed in 1943-1944 in Eastern Europe, or how many of their own people they had killed before the war even started, it certainly must have been less?

They had tons of enslaved workers laboring away in miserable conditions. And they kept killing people in their concentration and death camps.

The only thing that stopped them was the Allies invading. I don't know if it was less than 1944, but if it was it was only because the war ended in May.

[viper37]

The only thing that stopped them was the Allies invading. I don't know if it was less than 1944, but if it was it was only because the war ended in May.

But that's what I'm saying, the invasion stopped the killing.
OvB tries to ridicule my position like I'm saying there should be 0 civilian casualties.

Groups like that should not be allowed to grow, simply.  And then, civilians shouldn't pay the price because we let them grow thinking it's a brilliant move.

[Razgovory]

The only thing that stopped them was the Allies invading. I don't know if it was less than 1944, but if it was it was only because the war ended in May.

But that's what I'm saying, the invasion stopped the killing.
OvB tries to ridicule my position like I'm saying there should be 0 civilian casualties.

Groups like that should not be allowed to grow, simply.  And then, civilians shouldn't pay the price because we let them grow thinking it's a brilliant move.

The way not to let them grow is military action.

[viper37]

The only thing that stopped them was the Allies invading. I don't know if it was less than 1944, but if it was it was only because the war ended in May.

But that's what I'm saying, the invasion stopped the killing.
OvB tries to ridicule my position like I'm saying there should be 0 civilian casualties.

Groups like that should not be allowed to grow, simply.  And then, civilians shouldn't pay the price because we let them grow thinking it's a brilliant move.

The way not to let them grow is military action.

I refer to you to Sheilb and Minsky's post about Bibi's policies toward Hamas.
Then indicate to me how this prevented the growth of the organization.

[Razgovory]

Say again.  Did not recieve.

[The Minsky Moment]

Carpet bombing ...

Right,, pretty racist to refer to bombing of an Arab city as bombing carpets.