Football (Soccer) Thread

[The Larch]

I was just thinking, is it just me or is international football in general quite weak now?

Most of the traditional top teams are just not so strong as their teams in times past.

It's you. What has changed is that the average level of international teams is higher, there's rarely a team that manages to qualify for a WC that is a true pushover. Thus, a traditional top team that is not up to snuff for whatever reason might easily get upset by a non traditional top team that is truly motivated and well organized. This has always been a possibility, but now it's truer than ever.

It's quite telling that England have gotten to a euro final and wc semi final in the past 4 years despite their golden generation being in the past.

It might also be, because for all the criticism they get, this English team is actually a proper team, with a tactic and system that works for them, while the golden generation England teams were more a collection of big names than true teams.

[The Larch]

It's because there is too many leagues and top talent is too distributed among them.

You're aware that the Premier League exists, right?

[Grey Fox]

It's because there is too many leagues and top talent is too distributed among them.

You're aware that the Premier League exists, right?

Yes. 1 top league amongst 55 top leagues in UEFA.

There's only 1, Rashford, of the current 6 3 goals scorers at the WC that plays in the PL.

[celedhring]

The US looked hopeless out there. Workrate and pluckiness will only take you so far.  Need players with a bit more guile if they want to leave a mark in 2026, and Pulisic has stagnated a bit.

[Sheilbh]

It might also be, because for all the criticism they get, this English team is actually a proper team, with a tactic and system that works for them, while the golden generation England teams were more a collection of big names than true teams.

Yeah I think that "teamness" is really important and I think it's what sets apart impressive international level teams. It's one of the reasons I wonder if managing one of Europe's super clubs is maybe more like international management than, say, managing a club that has to be smart with its resources. I feel like Ancelotti would be a truly incredible international coach exactly for that reason.

I think it's also linked to the point that Jonathan Wilson made:

Southgate's record far outstrips every England coach since. He has taken England to two of the six semi-finals they have reached. He is responsible for five of their 14 victories in knockout games at major tournaments. Yet still the mood since the Euros final has been grouchy. He's too negative. He has to take the handbrake off. He has to unleash this great glut of forwards. Why, oh why, oh why is there no place for [insert name of Premier League creator du jour here]? History will look back and ask why [delete as appropriate: Phil Foden/Marcus Rashford/Jack Grealish/Mason Mount/Bukayo Saka] was left on the bench.

It might be that there's huge weakness in international football, or that England have been incredibly lucky. Or it might just be that Southgate is pretty good at his job, they've got some talented players and they don't all hate each other.

[Zoupa]

 

England is so amazing, with their zero European cups and 1 world cup back 60 years ago...

Each tournament we get the same story. "This time, it feels like something is in the air, the group is really gelling" etc etc etc ad nauseam aeternam.

First, they'll have to beat Senegal, then probably France, then probably Spain, then probably Brazil. Yet again, it not "coming home" this year either.

[Sheilbh]

England is so amazing, with their zero European cups and 1 world cup back 60 years ago...

Each tournament we get the same story. "This time, it feels like something is in the air, the group is really gelling" etc etc etc ad nauseam aeternam.

First, they'll have to beat Senegal, then probably France, then probably Spain, then probably Brazil. Yet again, it not "coming home" this year either.

I mean that's not the point of Wilson's argument or that I meant.

I think generally international teams that work as a team do better than big names and superstars. England's much vaunted but pathetic "golden generation" is an example of that - but I'm sure other countries like the Netherlands and Spain have their own stories of egos or club loyalties getting in the way of a team's talent. As I say I think it's also maybe now what managing the super-clubs with endless money is about, is finding a way to build a happy team while managing superstar egos. I'm not sure that doing really well at even clubs like Dortmund or Sevilla is necessarily what you need to manage PSG or Real Madrid or Man United in the way that perhaps it was 20 or 30 years ago.

Southgate is the most successful England manager in decades - it seems very English to muse if that's because his time in charge coincides with a period of historic global weakness in world football. It seems more likely that Southgate is simply relatively good at his job at getting relatively good players to cohere in a system - and the same goes for many other countries.

Having said all that I kind of hope and kind of expect Argentina to win this year because it what Messi's superstar narrative needs and deserves (plus I want a non-European team to win because it's been too long)

[Josephus]

Are goalies not allowed to handle the ball on back passes?

I'm trying to figure out why so many goalies insist on dribbling back passes when there are millions of examples on the internet of that going poorly for them.

Yeah...back in the day, players would kill time by passing the ball back to Dino Zoff their goalie, who would pick it up. Bounce it a couple times. Then roll it out to the defender who would dribble a bit, then turn around and pass it back to Zoff the goalie who would pick it up, bounce it a couple times and roll it out to the defender who would dribble a bit, then turn around and pass...well you get the idea.

So they stopped this.

[Josquius]

.

Having said all that I kind of hope and kind of expect Argentina to win this year because it what Messi's superstar narrative needs and deserves (plus I want a non-European team to win because it's been too long)

I can't think of a country I less want to win than Argentina.
Cheating fucks.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah I realise my views on Argentina are out of the mainstream here

[HVC]

Josquius views are funny coming from an England fan, in  that he's upset one man cheated when in 1966 your whole organization cheated

That being said, I want them to lose for my own selfish reasons.  the best game of the Tournament  was when they lost to the saudis

[Gups]

Josquius views are funny coming from an England fan, in  that he's upset one man cheated when in 1966 your whole organization cheated

That being said, I want them to lose for my own selfish reasons.  the best game of the Tournament  was when they lost to the saudis

I know there's controversy over the call by the Russian linesman's 50/50 call but not heard the conspiracy theory. What is it?

I'm any event, Hand of god, Diego on drugs, the 6-0 against Peru in 78 amongst shitloads else in that tournie

[The Larch]

With that goal Giroud has become France's all time top scorer.

[Gups]

Are goalies not allowed to handle the ball on back passes?

I'm trying to figure out why so many goalies insist on dribbling back passes when there are millions of examples on the internet of that going poorly for them.

Yeah...back in the day, players would kill time by passing the ball back to Dino Zoff their goalie, who would pick it up. Bounce it a couple times. Then roll it out to the defender who would dribble a bit, then turn around and pass it back to Zoff the goalie who would pick it up, bounce it a couple times and roll it out to the defender who would dribble a bit, then turn around and pass...well you get the idea.

So they stopped this.

Along with three points for a win, the most important rule change of the last40 years or so. Transformed the game

[FunkMonk]

It's because there is too many leagues and top talent is too distributed among them.

You're aware that the Premier League exists, right?

Yes. 1 top league amongst 55 top leagues in UEFA.

There's only 1, Rashford, of the current 6 3 goals scorers at the WC that plays in the PL.

I'm not sure what "too many leagues" means in the context of each country having its own football league system, but I think it's more accurate to say that the richest teams vacuum up the "top talent", and that these richest teams are now predominantly the fossil fuel clubs plus the "legacy" top clubs like Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Manchester United, etc.

The whole point of the super league as it was constructed was so that the "legacy" clubs could stay relevant in the new age of nation-state ownership.