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#1

Off the Record / Re: Israel-Hamas War 2023

Last post by Valmy - Today at 12:54:26 PM

You have several threads on Left Wing antisemitism.  For instance among Black Americans "Jews control everything" and "Jews ran the slave trade" have a lot of currency. There is also belief that Israelis train police to kill Black people.  Among the Left-wing protestors at these Universities middle eastern conspiracy  theories gain a lot of traction such as the idea that Israelis are stealing the organs of Palestinian children.  The idea that Zionists control the media makes a big impact in the left (Why isn't there more attention on Palestinian suffering?  It's the Zionists in the media.)  And of course the talk about the "Zionist lobby" having way to much influence on government.

And don't forget Arab and Arab-Americans. The idea that the US supports Israel because American Jews control the government is pretty common.

But again we are talking about tens of thousands of dead civilians and an extreme right wing PM in Netanyahu with a history of corruption and authoritarian aspirations, who has held power off and on for almost 30 fucking years. If the Labour Party was in charge in Israel I suspect the leftists would be less antagonistic. But fat chance of that ever happening again, the Israeli left is dead. So is it any wonder a country where the extreme right battles the center right for power might not be popular with left wing people?

#2

Off the Record / Re: Israel-Hamas War 2023

Last post by Grey Fox - Today at 12:50:21 PM

Huh.  Campus protests have come to Alberta.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/university-calgary-palestinian-protest-police-removal-1.7199937

At U of Calgary police were called yesterday, protestors were told they could not set up an encampment, but were free to protest and could return the following day.  Most protestors left voluntarily, but a few dozen had to be forcibly cleared.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/student-protesters-at-university-of-alberta-start-pro-palestinian-encampment-1.7199928

Encampment set up at U of A today.  Supposedly protestors were served with "eviction notices".  I suppose we'll see overnight what happens.

I find it interesting that in Montreal, only the Anglo University students are interested into setting up camps. Well, a camp.

#3

Off the Record / Re: The Off Topic Topic

Last post by crazy canuck - Today at 12:49:42 PM

Yeah but if you just live the normal American lifestyle you will almost inevitably become overweight. You have to make a considerable effort to not be overweight unless you are just blessed by genetics.

I thought Colorado was the least fat so sort of surprised to see that DC, of all places, is. Must be all those standing desks in the federal bureaucracy.



But look at all those fatties in Saskatchewan!

It's a cop out to say one needs to be blessed with good genetics.  The genetics haven't changed, our lifestyles have.

We eat fast food, junk food and sugar in everything.  And on top of that people don't move- unless you count their fingers over a keyboard.

#4

Off the Record / Re: The Off Topic Topic

Last post by Valmy - Today at 12:44:31 PM

Also it is weird that Puerto Rico, the US VI, and Guam get to be included in the fatty parade but American Samoa and the Northern Marianas get left out. I guess some territories have more privacy than others.

#5

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Sheilbh - Today at 12:41:56 PM

OK, but my point wasn't "you need a base".  I mean you do if you want Reform to grow as a viable political party.

But if you want Jos's dream scenario of a total Conservative destruction you need Reform to do reasonably well across the country in order to draw votes from the Conservatives and allow Labour (or LibDems) to win a plurality even in what were once Conservative safe seats.

Totally agree but I'm not sure you even need that at the minute.

I think there are signs that's already happening. So Labour is winning back the Red Wall,  but it also looks on course to win back what were swing seats pre-2015 (especially in the Midlands - Nuneaton, for example), but also working class Southern seats that only really went Labour under Blair (Basildon, Braintree, Dover).

At the same time the Lib Dems came third in votes in the recent local elections - but second in councillors won. That suggests to me that there's an anti-Tory vote (as in 1997-2005) that is voting tactically. But also simply that the Lib Dems know what they're doing again. Which will target the Blue Wall seats.

And the challenge for the Tories is going to be that resources are limited, activists are limited - where do you try and defend because at the minute it looks like they're at risk of losing the new areas they won post-Brexit, the areas they won under Miliband and the Southern working class votes that have been a key part of the party since Thatcher. At the same time they're under pressure in the stockbroker belt from the Lib Dems.

Reform would definitely make that worse although I'm not sure where or with which voters.

But same difference.  There are many people "of the right".  If the UK Conservative Party is utterly destroyed, those people won't just go away.  Most likely they take over the LibDems, or else they build up a new party.

100%. I'm still baffled by why hardcore remainers/rejoiners haven't taken over the Lib Dems tbh.

#6

Off the Record / Re: Israel-Hamas War 2023

Last post by Razgovory - Today at 12:39:55 PM

You have several threads on Left Wing antisemitism.  For instance among Black Americans "Jews control everything" and "Jews ran the slave trade" have a lot of currency. There is also belief that Israelis train police to kill Black people.  Among the Left-wing protestors at these Universities middle eastern conspiracy  theories gain a lot of traction such as the idea that Israelis are stealing the organs of Palestinian children.  The idea that Zionists control the media makes a big impact in the left (Why isn't there more attention on Palestinian suffering?  It's the Zionists in the media.)  And of course the talk about the "Zionist lobby" having way to much influence on government.

#7

Off the Record / Re: The Off Topic Topic

Last post by Valmy - Today at 12:36:32 PM

Yeah but if you just live the normal American lifestyle you will almost inevitably become overweight. You have to make a considerable effort to not be overweight unless you are just blessed by genetics.

I thought Colorado was the least fat so sort of surprised to see that DC, of all places, is. Must be all those standing desks in the federal bureaucracy.



But look at all those fatties in Saskatchewan!

#8

Off the Record / Re: Israel-Hamas War 2023

Last post by Barrister - Today at 12:35:44 PM

Huh.  Campus protests have come to Alberta.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/university-calgary-palestinian-protest-police-removal-1.7199937

At U of Calgary police were called yesterday, protestors were told they could not set up an encampment, but were free to protest and could return the following day.  Most protestors left voluntarily, but a few dozen had to be forcibly cleared.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/student-protesters-at-university-of-alberta-start-pro-palestinian-encampment-1.7199928

Encampment set up at U of A today.  Supposedly protestors were served with "eviction notices".  I suppose we'll see overnight what happens.

#9

Off the Record / Re: Israel-Hamas War 2023

Last post by Valmy - Today at 12:26:53 PM

So obviously I can't comment on the motivations of every leftist, nor put numbers on how many feel this way - but come on.

It's not very hard at all to find anti-semitism in a hard-left mindspace.  As a leftist you're very suspicious of big corporations.  And who controls the big corporations?  Why the Jews of course!

I don't think the antisemitism on the hard left is through the "Jews control the big corporations" line of reasoning. I think the reasoning is an inability to distinguish between Jews and Israel, and holding that Israel is axiomatically evil; therefore antisemitism.

Yes. This.

But also there is a lot of overlap between the paranoid and anti-authoritarian left and right with people often moving between the two. So lots of conspiracy theories and nuttiness gets passed around on the fringes and that slowly spreads around both on the left and the right as trust of institutions wanes.

I mean prior to a decade ago I considered anti-vaccine conspiracy nuttery to be entirely a left wing phenomenon. And then very mysteriously it suddenly appeared and spread through the right wing.

#10

Off the Record / Re: Brexit and the waning days...

Last post by Barrister - Today at 12:19:09 PM

The thing is - if this happened the Lib Dems would eventually be pretty much exactly like the Tories.

I can point to an example of this: British Columbia.  There wasa long-time "Conservative" Party that ruled the province for a number of years called the SoCreds.  SoCreds collapsed in scandal, leading to a left-wing NDP government.  With a giant void on the right side of the spectrum the provincial Liberals stepped in - but this pretty quickly made the Liberals the "Conservative" party in BC.

My understanding is that ex-SoCred folks directly took over the BC Liberal party. It's not that the BC Libs "stepped in", it's that the SoCreds continued as they were, wearing the skin of the BC Liberal party which they took over after the collapse of the SoCreds.

OK, could be.

But same difference.  There are many people "of the right".  If the UK Conservative Party is utterly destroyed, those people won't just go away.  Most likely they take over the LibDems, or else they build up a new party.