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General Category => Off the Record => Gaming HQ => Topic started by: Syt on July 19, 2009, 03:37:12 PM

Title: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Syt on July 19, 2009, 03:37:12 PM
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2161992

QuoteWe expect AE to be released in the second half of July. The manuals have not yet "landed" but they are currently on schedule to arrive in our warehouse in that same second half of July. As soon as we have confirmation that the manuals are safely in hand, we will release the game. We are very close to gold on the development side, currently we are checking a gold candidate and it looks like the next build will _probably_ be the gold master.

The confirmed pricing for AE will be $59.99 Download / $69.99 Physical, which is $10 less than War in the Pacific. We will also be discounting War in the Pacific for a limited time to coincide with the release of the Admiral's Edition. The goal of this is to make it a bit easier for wargamers who may first hear of WITP/AE because of the AE release announcement to "buy in" if they wish. We recommend that gamers who have not played WITP purchase and try that first before deciding to upgrade to AE.

The Admiral's Edition _requires_ that you own and have installed a copy of War in the Pacific (any version) on the same system where you plan to install AE. If you have not, AE will not install and will not run.

AE does _not_ install on top of WITP, but it requires it to install and run. After you install AE, you will have two separate working games. You can continue playing WITP and any ongoing solo or PBEM games without interruption while firing up AE and getting started with that.

When we are about a week away from release (our best guess) we will release the full AE manual in the Members Club to get you started. This download will only be available to those who have registered their copy of WITP.

Regards,

- Erik

Well, I bought WitP during the last Christmas sale, and while I see a great and huge game there it's not for people like me who have very limited attention spans and therefore not touch the game for weeks, months. So I guess I'll pass up this "bargain" of an expansion.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Habbaku on July 19, 2009, 04:14:32 PM
But if anyone's interested in purchasing the base game, feel free to PM me for a cut-rate price on a physical copy.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on July 19, 2009, 08:24:01 PM
What does the expansion add?

Not like I'd ever buy it at those prices, I'm just curious. Perhaps if it dropped to $20 for the bundle.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Syt on July 19, 2009, 10:31:54 PM
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on July 19, 2009, 08:24:01 PM
What does the expansion add?

Not like I'd ever buy it at those prices, I'm just curious. Perhaps if it dropped to $20 for the bundle.

The original was released 5 years ago and hasn't gone down in price from 70$ (digital)/80$ (physical) (except during holiday sales). So I guess they'll never release it as bargain.

That said there's a a core group of players on their forums who consider this game the best wargame ever, their best buy in terms of longevity ... but then you have them on many forums. Matrix said on their forums that the expansion is mainly aimed at the enthusiasts who, basically, want more of everything.

The new features:
Quote* An all new 40 nautical mile per hex map [old map was 60 miles/hex] covering the entire Pacific theater and off-map bases
    * Six new scenarios, including a new grand campaign with meticulously researched orders of battle
    * Improved naval operations, including waypoints, mid-ocean intercepts, new ship classes and devises and a greatly improved ship upgrade system, engine vs. system damage, new ship art and realistic new port limits for ships, cargo and repairs
    * Improved air operations, including more realistic CAP, more detailed and realistic dogfighting, an improved pilot skill and replacement system, persistent plane damage and more realistic plane maintenance, improved fog of war, new aircraft art and over 500 airplane types
    * Improved land operations, including transportation networks defined by hex-side, new operations modes for land units, dynamic zone of control, tactical movement, improved fog of war and overstacking rules for atolls and small islands.
    * Improved economy and industry to reflect more realistic operations as well as more historical balance
    * The most historical and detailed order of battle for the Pacific War ever put into a wargame!
    * A new scenario editor, built from the ground up to make scenario and mod-making easier, with expanded slot limits, text search and upgradable unit TO&Es
    * Printed 196 page COLOR manual (boxed copy only)

The game's resolution remains limited to 1024x768, though.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 20, 2009, 04:54:46 AM
They ever figure out Japanese aircraft production?
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Jaron on July 20, 2009, 05:08:41 AM
I own WitP , I think from what Ide told me it is a great game..I love the Pacific War, but its just too damn complex for me. It defeats the purpose of what I think a game should be and becomes too much like work. <_<
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 20, 2009, 05:12:27 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 19, 2009, 10:31:54 PMThe game's resolution remains limited to 1024x768, though.

Cry me a fucking river.  The main application I deal with at work has to be launched in 800x600, uses a 32 bit bootstrap because it's a 16-bit program, and uses Access 2.0 for its database.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Jaron on July 20, 2009, 05:15:33 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 20, 2009, 05:12:27 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 19, 2009, 10:31:54 PMThe game's resolution remains limited to 1024x768, though.

Cry me a fucking river.  The main application I deal with at work has to be launched in 800x600, uses a 32 bit bootstrap because it's a 16-bit program, and uses Access 2.0 for its database.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobiletopsoft.com%2Fpocket-pc%2Fnewimg%2Fminesweeper.gif&hash=082b4ea8f2b8787eca9001dfdc823d3dc40ec62b)
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 20, 2009, 05:18:06 AM
I only wish it was that advanced.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Syt on July 20, 2009, 07:12:51 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 20, 2009, 05:12:27 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 19, 2009, 10:31:54 PMThe game's resolution remains limited to 1024x768, though.

Cry me a fucking river.  The main application I deal with at work has to be launched in 800x600, uses a 32 bit bootstrap because it's a 16-bit program, and uses Access 2.0 for its database.

Thanks for the insight, mono. :)
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 20, 2009, 04:19:13 PM
Quote from: Jaron on July 20, 2009, 05:15:33 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobiletopsoft.com%2Fpocket-pc%2Fnewimg%2Fminesweeper.gif&hash=082b4ea8f2b8787eca9001dfdc823d3dc40ec62b)
Pathetic.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 20, 2009, 06:46:39 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 20, 2009, 07:12:51 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 20, 2009, 05:12:27 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 19, 2009, 10:31:54 PMThe game's resolution remains limited to 1024x768, though.

Cry me a fucking river.  The main application I deal with at work has to be launched in 800x600, uses a 32 bit bootstrap because it's a 16-bit program, and uses Access 2.0 for its database.

Thanks for the insight, mono. :)

People who bitch about 1024 res piss me off.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Syt on July 20, 2009, 11:08:58 PM
Anyways - pricing model's been changed:
QuoteWar in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition will now be a stand-alone release. It will NOT require War in the Pacific to install or to play. We still recommend that customers interested in Admiral's Edition give WITP a try first. The larger map scale, fewer units and larger number of shorter or smaller scenarios we feel are ideal to mastering the system before you proceed to Admiral's Edition. But if you want to jump right on in to AE, we won't stop you. Go right ahead.

War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition will have a stand-alone price of $79.99 Download / $89.99 Physical.

Starting with the Admiral's Edition release, we will be running a 90 Day "Victory at Sea" sale. This sale will reduce the price of Uncommon Valor and War Plan Orange by $10 and War in the Pacific will be reduced by $20. It will run for three months after the Admiral's Edition release. The goal of this sale is to make these other games in the WITP "series" less expensive for those who might want to test the waters with WITP or complete their collection.

Also, for three months starting with the Admiral's Edition release, we will be offering a discount to existing owners of War in the Pacific. This discount will allow you to purchase the Admiral's Edition for $20 less than its normal stand-alone price. That means that it will be $59.99 Download / $69.99 Physical for WITP owners for three months after the Admiral's Edition release. This is the same price point we discussed earlier. We strongly encourage ALL WITP owners to upgrade during this three month period, after which Admiral's Edition will only be available at the stand-alone price of $79.99 Download / $89.99 Physical.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Habbaku on July 20, 2009, 11:19:50 PM
Wow, only $60 for a patch?
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on July 21, 2009, 07:42:25 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 20, 2009, 11:19:50 PM
Wow, only $60 for a patch?
:yes: They have discovered that Paradox's method works.  After all, Hearts of Iron was a $50 patch to EU2.  Given inflation, this makes sense.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Jaron on July 24, 2009, 11:13:40 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 21, 2009, 07:42:25 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on July 20, 2009, 11:19:50 PM
Wow, only $60 for a patch?
:yes: They have discovered that Paradox's method works.  After all, Hearts of Iron was a $50 patch to EU2.  Given inflation, this makes sense.

:huh:
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Bluebook on July 26, 2009, 03:56:59 AM
Game will be released tomorrow. Im going to buy it right away.

Anyone interested in a pbem?
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Ape on July 27, 2009, 09:49:29 AM
Quote from: Bluebook on July 26, 2009, 03:56:59 AM
Game will be released tomorrow. Im going to buy it right away.

Anyone interested in a pbem?
In a few weeks, sure.... but who the fuck are you?
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Syt on July 27, 2009, 12:57:36 PM
I'm intrigued by this, btw. I got WitP furing the last christmas sale. I only scratched the surface and basically put it away because AE seemed to be "just around the corner". But I think I should play some WitP before shelling out 60 or 70 EUR for this one.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Ape on July 27, 2009, 03:41:52 PM
Downloaded and dived straight into the grand campaing  :D

If you have played Witp many things are similar, but many aren't.

It has a veeeery steep learning curve. But I think I'm at least starting to understand what micromanagement is all about  ;)

First turn I ran a midget sub put a fish into West Virginia at Pearl <_<

Map is b-e-a-utifull :thumbsup:

Most of the allied fighting in december -41 and first half of -42 seems to be with a shoestring. Modern fighters? Hah! Here's some P-26 or Buffalos  :(

OOB, say no more :thumbsup:

Syt, an advice, if you think you want to try it, try it now, instead of learning a lot of stupid stuff playing vanilla witp that you will have to unlearn playing AE.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Drakken on July 28, 2009, 10:21:26 AM
Yep, it is on my to-buy list.

In fact, it is on my to-buy-today list.  :menace:
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Syt on July 28, 2009, 11:04:31 AM
Bought it after all. With the previous owner discount it's about the price of an average XBox game. Unfortunately, instead of the game menu I only get a black screen.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: The Brain on July 28, 2009, 03:25:52 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 28, 2009, 11:04:31 AM
Bought it after all. With the previous owner discount it's about the price of an average XBox game. Unfortunately, instead of the game menu I only get a black screen.

Maybe your expectations were unrealistic?
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Berkut on July 28, 2009, 03:30:52 PM
I was thinking this looked very promising - WitP was such an outstanding game hidden behind a nightmare of an interface, that I would be willing to pay again to see WitP 2, with re-worked interface.

Sadly, it doesn't seem like they did anything at all to deal with the interface problems - in fact, I think they may have actually made it worse, judging from some of the comments I have seen.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: sbr on July 28, 2009, 06:53:11 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 28, 2009, 03:25:52 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 28, 2009, 11:04:31 AM
Bought it after all. With the previous owner discount it's about the price of an average XBox game. Unfortunately, instead of the game menu I only get a black screen.

Maybe your expectations were unrealistic?
:lmfao: :lmfao:
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on July 28, 2009, 10:38:25 PM
Quote from: Berkut on July 28, 2009, 03:30:52 PM
I was thinking this looked very promising - WitP was such an outstanding game hidden behind a nightmare of an interface, that I would be willing to pay again to see WitP 2, with re-worked interface.

Sadly, it doesn't seem like they did anything at all to deal with the interface problems - in fact, I think they may have actually made it worse, judging from some of the comments I have seen.
I don't believe there is an interface that would do much good.  You either live with the level of micromnagement or you don't.  If you do, the interface is servicable.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Syt on July 29, 2009, 12:36:57 AM
From what I read on their forums it seems they improved the interfaces a bit - some back buttons, some info if you right click items and such.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Berkut on July 29, 2009, 08:16:33 AM
Quote from: grumbler on July 28, 2009, 10:38:25 PM
Quote from: Berkut on July 28, 2009, 03:30:52 PM
I was thinking this looked very promising - WitP was such an outstanding game hidden behind a nightmare of an interface, that I would be willing to pay again to see WitP 2, with re-worked interface.

Sadly, it doesn't seem like they did anything at all to deal with the interface problems - in fact, I think they may have actually made it worse, judging from some of the comments I have seen.
I don't believe there is an interface that would do much good.  You either live with the level of micromnagement or you don't.  If you do, the interface is servicable.

I don't agree - there are a lot of things about the WitP interface that are simply terrible, and don't ned to be that way.

Loading units onto transports, for instance, is a nightmare, and if you mess it up slightly, you end up fragmenting units all over the place.

As I remember it, playing WitP, and being good at it, had a nasty level of work involved in simply getting things to do what you wanted them to do, let alone whether or not what you wanted them to do was a good idea or not.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on July 29, 2009, 08:48:36 AM
Quote from: Berkut on July 29, 2009, 08:16:33 AM
I don't agree - there are a lot of things about the WitP interface that are simply terrible, and don't ned to be that way.

Loading units onto transports, for instance, is a nightmare, and if you mess it up slightly, you end up fragmenting units all over the place.
Loading transports is a pain because of the way the code is written, not because of the interface.  The interface was fine ("I have four transports and want to load these two battalions on them") but the code was bad ("WTF?  Why did the code loade one battalion on three transports, leaving them 25% loaded each, and put just half of the second battalion on the remaining transport before it maxed out?")

QuoteAs I remember it, playing WitP, and being good at it, had a nasty level of work involved in simply getting things to do what you wanted them to do, let alone whether or not what you wanted them to do was a good idea or not.
A modest amount of nastiness, for sure.  The interface problem I had was more with logistics and manufacturing than with anything else.  You had to run side programs to calculate what you produced last turn and would produce in the future.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Ape on July 29, 2009, 10:56:28 AM
Quote from: Berkut on July 29, 2009, 08:16:33 AM


Loading units onto transports, for instance, is a nightmare, and if you mess it up slightly, you end up fragmenting units all over the place.


Fixed. You now first have to validate your loading of troops before moving on. Also your troops don't board at once, they have to pack up their stuff, takes usually a day or two.

Like this
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi137.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq226%2FLucius_Lucullus%2FLoadingtroops.jpg&hash=d96976eb03766ffda9928a6c13cec53d53e3cc20)
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: CountDeMoney on July 29, 2009, 06:29:20 PM
Tell me about more improvements, Ape.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Ape on July 30, 2009, 02:57:57 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 29, 2009, 06:29:20 PM
Tell me about more improvements, Ape.
To many of them  <_<

Shipyards, you can put your ships inside shipyards, and decide the priority of them. In total three different repair modes, inside shipyards, pierside and repair workshop. Shipyards have a tonage limit.

New damage model for ships, with 'Engine' being a new type of damge, and the damage is divided into major and minor damage, major can only be repaired in shipyards.

Waypoints. You can set waypoints for your Task Forces. Even let them wait at a waypoint to meet up and merge or refuel with another Task Force. Decreases the micro management of subs quite alot.

Naming of Task Forces.

Completely redone map, with off-map boxes such as Eastern USA, UK, Canada, South Africa, with the possibility by the Allies to transport troops, ships etc. from say UK or Easter USA to the Indian ocean by going around the Cape.

More pilot stats. In WitP every pilot had one stat, experience, now they have a shitload. So no training on strafing an isolated outpost anymore, you actually have to TRAIN your pilots.

Much less mines, they are now a produced item.

Vastly expanded Combat, air and land combat in particular seem much more plausible.

Troop limit on atolls. Wake for instance have a limit of 6,000 troops and Tarawa 30,000.

Aircraft limit on bases, not sure yet how much aircraft that you can stack in a single hex, but there is an operational limit there.

Strategic movement, troops can move by rail now.


That is what I can remember at the moment, there are many more changes.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Drakken on July 30, 2009, 11:35:24 AM
Despite me being a newb with only basic experience of WITP, I might be open to a PBEM game. I'm eager to kill some Japs (or white devils).
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Drakken on July 31, 2009, 09:51:02 AM
I find your lack of faith for PBEM disturbing.  <_<

Reading the Matrix forums, though, it seems the AI has revamped to make it play like a human player. For instance, KB can now linger around PH a little bit more to catch the CVs if they come around, or finish off patched BBs heading for the West Coast shipyards, just like a bold player would do.

Several reports also of AI totally catching the players with their pants down. No more predictable history-bound 1941-1942 scripted offensives that the experienced players get to learn in hindsight.

Also, Japan's transport fleet has been improved so that the Jappos actually NEED to preserve their fleet to bring in resource. Now every AK sunk counts.

Makes me curious about the later dates, though. Will Japan still fall asleep after reaching its usual positions on 1942 forward, like in WITP, or will it be more bold and aggressive nonetheless?

Also, no more stupid AI theater delegation command. Now you have to take of every theater yourself.  :cool:
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Syt on July 31, 2009, 09:55:21 AM
If you don't mind playing against a newb, we can play a game after I return from my vacation, late August. :P
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Drakken on July 31, 2009, 10:39:43 AM
Quote from: Syt on July 31, 2009, 09:55:21 AM
If you don't mind playing against a newb, we can play a game after I return from my vacation, late August. :P

I am a newb as well, although I have some WITP experience.

Late August seems a bit far off, but it'll give me time to explore around AE a bit.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Syt on July 31, 2009, 11:18:03 AM
Well, I only have a week before leaving for vacation (on the 10th), and I'll only be back on 25th of August. :P

Ten days don't seem anywhere near enough for a game like this, esp. as I have to learn the interface first. :blush:
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Bluebook on August 02, 2009, 01:45:49 AM
Quote from: Ape on July 27, 2009, 09:49:29 AM
Quote from: Bluebook on July 26, 2009, 03:56:59 AM
Game will be released tomorrow. Im going to buy it right away.

Anyone interested in a pbem?
In a few weeks, sure.... but who the fuck are you?

Ive just downloaded the game and started a game against the AI to get into things. Despite having a few years of experience with witp, the learning curve seems steep. How about a "learning" pbem where we restart if someone screws up badly enough?

I usually play the allies exclusively, but I can do either side. Do you have any preferences?

Im in Sweden btw.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Jaron on August 02, 2009, 01:58:17 AM
If you guys are going to play in late August, you better start doing your setups now. :P
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Syt on August 02, 2009, 02:07:36 AM
Quote from: Bluebook on August 02, 2009, 01:45:49 AM
Im in Sweden btw.

Hi, Hortlund. :)
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 02, 2009, 01:30:45 PM
Quote from: Bluebook on August 02, 2009, 01:45:49 AM
I usually play the allies exclusively,

What, you got a problem with Asians? You racist or something?

QuoteIm in Sweden btw.

Oh, nevermind. You are.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Bluebook on August 08, 2009, 02:56:44 AM
Ok, Im working on a jap turn 1. Its game 2, the grand campaign with the beefed up japos. 2 day turns, standard settings.

I would like to test this game against a human opponent, but since this is the release version, there are bound to come some patch that may or may not require a restart. Since this is the first campaign game, there are also bound to be plenty of player errors from both sides.

So is anyone interested in playing a sort of learning pbem?
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 08, 2009, 10:53:26 AM
Quote from: Bluebook on August 08, 2009, 02:56:44 AM
Ok, Im working on a jap turn 1. Its game 2, the grand campaign with the beefed up japos. 2 day turns, standard settings.

I would like to test this game against a human opponent, but since this is the release version, there are bound to come some patch that may or may not require a restart. Since this is the first campaign game, there are also bound to be plenty of player errors from both sides.

So is anyone interested in playing a sort of learning pbem?

You could play against Berkut, but be sure to have your speed chess clock handy.  He expects turns every 30 minutes.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Syt on August 08, 2009, 11:01:58 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 08, 2009, 10:53:26 AM
Quote from: Bluebook on August 08, 2009, 02:56:44 AM
Ok, Im working on a jap turn 1. Its game 2, the grand campaign with the beefed up japos. 2 day turns, standard settings.

I would like to test this game against a human opponent, but since this is the release version, there are bound to come some patch that may or may not require a restart. Since this is the first campaign game, there are also bound to be plenty of player errors from both sides.

So is anyone interested in playing a sort of learning pbem?

You could play against Berkut, but be sure to have your speed chess clock handy.  He expects turns every 30 minutes.

He gets squeamish, though, if he has more than a couple hundreds of counters, though, as I learned in that 1988 NATO vs. WP scenario for TOAW.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Norgy on August 08, 2009, 11:10:12 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 08, 2009, 10:53:26 AM

You could play against Berkut, but be sure to have your speed chess clock handy.  He expects turns every 30 minutes.

Except when he gets really badly burned in Combat Mission.

Then a turn can take, well, 4 years.

And I am really the worst player ever. In all senses of the word. But even I know that rock beats scissors.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 08, 2009, 11:16:17 AM
Quote from: Norgy on August 08, 2009, 11:10:12 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 08, 2009, 10:53:26 AM

You could play against Berkut, but be sure to have your speed chess clock handy.  He expects turns every 30 minutes.

Except when he gets really badly burned in Combat Mission.

Then a turn can take, well, 4 years.

And I am really the worst player ever. In all senses of the word. But even I know that rock beats scissors.

:lol:

Berkut's OKW = AFK.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Norgy on August 08, 2009, 11:36:45 AM
He really is the only person who can make Monty look like a man hurrying to reach objectives.

Like I said, I am really bad at this stuff, but when 2/3 of the expected forces lie and cry for "Hilfe" in the snow in the Ardennes, I sort of know I won.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Norgy on August 08, 2009, 11:45:38 AM
Oh, I remember... Berky sent like all his armour against some rather poor and green troops.

Then on turn three, I suddenly get a fresh batch of Shermans I can throw to the wind.

Half of them had green crews that bailed at first signs of some Germans, but so did Berky's Panzergrenadiers.

There were also some armoured cars with big guns there.

That sent the Volksgrenadieren crying for newly-raped-by-The-Red-Army mums.

Heck, I need to play some CM again, if only to see SS PZ.Gr be completely overrun by commandos.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Ape on August 08, 2009, 12:57:46 PM
Quote from: Norgy on August 08, 2009, 11:45:38 AM

That sent the Volksgrenadieren crying for newly-raped-by-The-Red-Army mums.

Heck, I need to play some CM again, if only to see SS PZ.Gr be completely overrun by commandos.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059263/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059263/) :unsure:
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Berkut on August 08, 2009, 09:58:20 PM
Quote from: Norgy on August 08, 2009, 11:36:45 AM
He really is the only person who can make Monty look like a man hurrying to reach objectives.

Like I said, I am really bad at this stuff, but when 2/3 of the expected forces lie and cry for "Hilfe" in the snow in the Ardennes, I sort of know I won.


What are you talking about?
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 09, 2009, 05:33:19 AM
Quote from: Norgy on August 08, 2009, 11:10:12 AM
And I am really the worst player ever. In all senses of the word. But even I know that rock beats scissors.

Rock beats paper too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV0B3maUK0E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV0B3maUK0E)
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Syt on August 09, 2009, 05:42:16 AM
Scissors beats paper:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiCswPXxyt4
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Ideologue on August 09, 2009, 08:05:12 PM
Quote from: grumbler on July 29, 2009, 08:48:36 AM
Quote from: Berkut on July 29, 2009, 08:16:33 AM
I don't agree - there are a lot of things about the WitP interface that are simply terrible, and don't ned to be that way.

Loading units onto transports, for instance, is a nightmare, and if you mess it up slightly, you end up fragmenting units all over the place.
Loading transports is a pain because of the way the code is written, not because of the interface.  The interface was fine ("I have four transports and want to load these two battalions on them") but the code was bad ("WTF?  Why did the code loade one battalion on three transports, leaving them 25% loaded each, and put just half of the second battalion on the remaining transport before it maxed out?")

QuoteAs I remember it, playing WitP, and being good at it, had a nasty level of work involved in simply getting things to do what you wanted them to do, let alone whether or not what you wanted them to do was a good idea or not.
A modest amount of nastiness, for sure.  The interface problem I had was more with logistics and manufacturing than with anything else.  You had to run side programs to calculate what you produced last turn and would produce in the future.

I never really found that that necessary.

Granted, most of my games ended before any production catastrophes probably would have occurred, but as Japan I'm pretty sure I recall being able to increase, even in the short term, Zero, Nell and Betty production, and from my time with the game it appeared that inventories of those aircraft were virtually the only thing that ever mattered in deciding whether or not the Japanese player actually wins or loses... :unsure:
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Habsburg on August 10, 2009, 06:03:41 PM
This War in the Pacific looks super yum-yum and complex.

Two questions:

1. Does it require a super computer.
2. Can I rename things.

Such as a CV from like USS Yorktown to USS Coco Chanel??!? 
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 10, 2009, 08:22:21 PM
Quote from: Habsburg on August 10, 2009, 06:03:41 PM
Such as a CV from like USS Yorktown to USS Coco Chanel??!?

:frusty:

"...and we're changing the color schemes from battleship gray to tropical lime and coral.  It's the Pacific, people!"
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: sbr on August 10, 2009, 08:50:48 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 10, 2009, 08:22:21 PM
Quote from: Habsburg on August 10, 2009, 06:03:41 PM
Such as a CV from like USS Yorktown to USS Coco Chanel??!?

:frusty:

"...and we're changing the color schemes from battleship gray to tropical lime and coral.  It's the Pacific, people!"
:lol:

How can you be expected to stare at those dull gray ships all day?

Boooring.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Drakken on August 11, 2009, 10:14:02 AM
Quote from: Habsburg on August 10, 2009, 06:03:41 PM
This War in the Pacific looks super yum-yum and complex.

Two questions:

1. Does it require a super computer.
2. Can I rename things.

Such as a CV from like USS Yorktown to USS Coco Chanel??!?

1. No, although with the right commands it can take advantage of Dual and Quad processors. However, with my AMD 3200+ things roll pretty well.

2. Not the individual ships, no, but you can now add subtitles to your task forces.
2B. If you REALLY insist having the USS Coco Chanel, you can use the new editor to add one.
2BB. Ship Arts can be modded. In fact they were already in WITP with the RHS mod.

PS. According to Andy Mac, Ai scripts can now accessible through the Editor, so in time a WOPR-like super-AI could be modded and implemented... although the current AI is killer enough.  :mmm:
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Drakken on August 11, 2009, 10:14:25 AM
Also, first official patch is due within the next two or three weeks.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Ideologue on August 11, 2009, 12:19:13 PM
Quote from: Drakken on August 11, 2009, 10:14:02 AM
Quote from: Habsburg on August 10, 2009, 06:03:41 PM
This War in the Pacific looks super yum-yum and complex.

Two questions:

1. Does it require a super computer.
2. Can I rename things.

Such as a CV from like USS Yorktown to USS Coco Chanel??!?

1. No, although with the right commands it can take advantage of Dual and Quad processors. However, with my AMD 3200+ things roll pretty well.

2. Not the individual ships, no, but you can now add subtitles to your task forces.
2B. If you REALLY insist having the USS Coco Chanel, you can use the new editor to add one.
2BB. Ship Arts can be modded. In fact they were already in WITP with the RHS mod.

PS. According to Andy Mac, Ai scripts can now accessible through the Editor, so in time a WOPR-like super-AI could be modded and implemented... although the current AI is killer enough.  :mmm:

I remember the old AI liked to run convoys through contested waters and kept running them no matter how long you kept your raider CV TFs out.  I had a blast destroying 95% of the Marus left in the Japanese fleet in a week during my 1944 game.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Drakken on August 11, 2009, 12:32:43 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 11, 2009, 12:19:13 PM
Quote from: Drakken on August 11, 2009, 10:14:02 AM
Quote from: Habsburg on August 10, 2009, 06:03:41 PM
This War in the Pacific looks super yum-yum and complex.

Two questions:

1. Does it require a super computer.
2. Can I rename things.

Such as a CV from like USS Yorktown to USS Coco Chanel??!?

1. No, although with the right commands it can take advantage of Dual and Quad processors. However, with my AMD 3200+ things roll pretty well.

2. Not the individual ships, no, but you can now add subtitles to your task forces.
2B. If you REALLY insist having the USS Coco Chanel, you can use the new editor to add one.
2BB. Ship Arts can be modded. In fact they were already in WITP with the RHS mod.

PS. According to Andy Mac, Ai scripts can now accessible through the Editor, so in time a WOPR-like super-AI could be modded and implemented... although the current AI is killer enough.  :mmm:

I remember the old AI liked to run convoys through contested waters and kept running them no matter how long you kept your raider CV TFs out.  I had a blast destroying 95% of the Marus left in the Japanese fleet in a week during my 1944 game.

I cannot speak for 1944, but for now one of the biggest complaints from the MG forums is that the Japanese AI, prioritizing escorts for Air and Surface Combat task forces, send a number of Amphibious task forces without screening, which the Allied can annihilate if they catch them offguard.

However, this is not due to a lack in the AI itself, but by a friction between the marked numeral lack of escorts to cover all Japanese task forces in 1941, and the fact that its window of opportunity to grab as many territories possible is very short. The AI cannot afford to wait, so it is scripted to take this risk, with sometimes horrible consequences.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Habsburg on August 11, 2009, 03:09:54 PM
Quote from: Drakken on August 11, 2009, 10:14:02 AM
Quote from: Habsburg on August 10, 2009, 06:03:41 PM
This War in the Pacific looks super yum-yum and complex.

Two questions:

1. Does it require a super computer.
2. Can I rename things.

Such as a CV from like USS Yorktown to USS Coco Chanel??!?

1. No, although with the right commands it can take advantage of Dual and Quad processors. However, with my AMD 3200+ things roll pretty well.

2. Not the individual ships, no, but you can now add subtitles to your task forces.
2B. If you REALLY insist having the USS Coco Chanel, you can use the new editor to add one.
2BB. Ship Arts can be modded. In fact they were already in WITP with the RHS mod.

PS. According to Andy Mac, Ai scripts can now accessible through the Editor, so in time a WOPR-like super-AI could be modded and implemented... although the current AI is killer enough.  :mmm:

Thank you.

Rather than a "designer themed" carrier fleet, I think I might go with "great composers of film."

USS Bernard Herrmann

USS Elmer Bernstein

USS Alexandre Desplat

USS Bernard Herrmann II

USS Jerry Goldsmith

USS Bernard Herrmann III

:drool:


:lol: and thanks for the answers D.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on August 15, 2009, 05:48:53 PM
Quote from: Habsburg on August 11, 2009, 03:09:54 PM
Thank you.

Rather than a "designer themed" carrier fleet, I think I might go with "great composers of film."

USS Bernard Herrmann

USS Elmer Bernstein

USS Alexandre Desplat

USS Bernard Herrmann II

USS Jerry Goldsmith

USS Bernard Herrmann III

:drool:


:lol: and thanks for the answers D.
I think the US built more carriers than there were "great composers of film."  Maybe the light carriers could be "mediocre composers of film" and the Jeep carriers "forgettable composers of film."
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Ed Anger on August 15, 2009, 06:31:27 PM
USS Uwe Boll
USS the guy who did Robot Jox 2
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: CountDeMoney on August 15, 2009, 06:55:43 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 15, 2009, 05:48:53 PM
I think the US built more carriers than there were "great composers of film."  Maybe the light carriers could be "mediocre composers of film" and the Jeep carriers "forgettable composers of film."

The Scorsese Class corvette. Closes in on the enemy, and stabs it in the fucking neck with a fucking pen.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on August 15, 2009, 07:44:52 PM
I got this, downloaded it, and started to play.  Then, I realized that the game wanted me to assign search sectors for each patrol squadron, and my morale broke.  Maybe I will go back to the Texas cheerleader fighting radscorpions.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Ed Anger on August 16, 2009, 07:05:42 AM
Quote from: grumbler on August 15, 2009, 07:44:52 PM
I got this, downloaded it, and started to play.  Then, I realized that the game wanted me to assign search sectors for each patrol squadron, and my morale broke.  Maybe I will go back to the Texas cheerleader fighting radscorpions.

:lol:
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Drakken on August 17, 2009, 09:05:32 AM
Quote from: grumbler on August 15, 2009, 07:44:52 PM
I got this, downloaded it, and started to play.  Then, I realized that the game wanted me to assign search sectors for each patrol squadron, and my morale broke.  Maybe I will go back to the Texas cheerleader fighting radscorpions.

It isn't necessary to assign a search sector, but that means that the squadron will do a full 360 degree search, which is useless when you have only 4 patrol planes in the squadron. A good rule of thumb is 10 degrees for each plane.

I use the map to set the patrol sector; left-button for the first bracket, right-button for the last. Never had a problem since.

In my current PBEM game, Lexington ate a torpedo from a lone Jap submarine on Dec 11th, but the damages are contained. Still need a refit, though.

Then, the Jap player has the "brillant" idea to actually come back from his route back to Japan and PARK the KB about 120 nm southeast of Johnson Island as I was sending my CVs back to Pearl, with the ailing Lexington just at the limit of the KB's attack range.  I wish they would run out of fuel (as they would IRL) and stall there, moving one hex per day. <_<

Thank God, they were spotted on Dec 13th, so I redirected my three CVs to the West Coast at full speed for a day to get away as quickly as possible. They badly need fuel, though, so I must remember to prep Tankers to replenish the task forces between PH and the West Coast.

I sent three small ASW DD task force as decoys between the CVs and KB, and four of them ate bombs and torpedoes. That should deplete their fuel some more. Also, all available submarine patrols are redirected to spot that fleet and sink the flattops.

Also, most of my air squads on PH are repaired and the airfields are quite operational. If he decides to try if the Dec 7th bonus still works he will have a nasty surprise.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on August 17, 2009, 01:04:44 PM
Quote from: Drakken on August 17, 2009, 09:05:32 AM
It isn't necessary to assign a search sector, but that means that the squadron will do a full 360 degree search, which is useless when you have only 4 patrol planes in the squadron. A good rule of thumb is 10 degrees for each plane.
Right.  And I am playing Nimitz, and Admiral Nimitz personally organized the search sectors for every Allied patrol squadron.  :rolleyes:  Dumb design decision. 

Luckily, there are not too many of these horrible decisions.  I like the new fuel consumption model much better than the old one (where you could go top speed for days).  I haven't decided if I like the "fuel is the new oil" production model yet.  I definitely don't like the Allied unit withdrawal system.  A great many of the "withdraw and replace" actions they are showing in the game were air units that were re-named in place (e.g. "Fighter 5" to "Fighter 12" when the Enterprise would go into the yards and its fighter squadron was assigned to a new carrier air wing).  By and large, the game should ignore that kind of stuff, or else just change unit designations.

It is still far too easy to equip squadrons with radically different equipment without training in it.

I don't like the weird air organizations, with "HQ squadrons" and "recon squadrons" and all of the other ahistorical stuff they threw in rather than just tweaking the damned code so that the last bomber on each mission is a photo bird for BDA.  Having dedicated recon squadrons is fine; it is all these two and three plane detachments that are far more hassle than they are worth.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on August 17, 2009, 01:42:50 PM
Oh, and I detest this whole "xAK" and "xAP" class designations for civilian freighters.  If the designers really wanted to use a different ship class designation, they should have gone with the modern T-AK and T-AP.  better yet would have been to give the amphibious assault ships their proper AKA and APA designations, and leave the AK and AP designations for civilian ships taken over by the military.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Bluebook on August 17, 2009, 02:15:40 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 17, 2009, 01:42:50 PM
better yet would have been to give the amphibious assault ships their proper AKA and APA designations, and leave the AK and AP designations for civilian ships taken over by the military.

They did, the allies get APAs and AKAs, as well as APs and AKs. Japs get xAKs and xAPs and thats basically it. Oh, and some xAKLs too.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on August 17, 2009, 03:24:59 PM
Quote from: Bluebook on August 17, 2009, 02:15:40 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 17, 2009, 01:42:50 PM
better yet would have been to give the amphibious assault ships their proper AKA and APA designations, and leave the AK and AP designations for civilian ships taken over by the military.

They did, the allies get APAs and AKAs, as well as APs and AKs. Japs get xAKs and xAPs and thats basically it. Oh, and some xAKLs too.
Having APs and xAPs makes no sense.  If all the Japanese AKs are xAks, why bother making the distinction?  It looks silly to see reports like 4xxAK.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Bluebook on August 18, 2009, 01:22:17 AM
Quote from: grumbler on August 17, 2009, 03:24:59 PM
Quote from: Bluebook on August 17, 2009, 02:15:40 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 17, 2009, 01:42:50 PM
better yet would have been to give the amphibious assault ships their proper AKA and APA designations, and leave the AK and AP designations for civilian ships taken over by the military.

They did, the allies get APAs and AKAs, as well as APs and AKs. Japs get xAKs and xAPs and thats basically it. Oh, and some xAKLs too.
Having APs and xAPs makes no sense.  If all the Japanese AKs are xAks, why bother making the distinction?  It looks silly to see reports like 4xxAK.

No, the xAK (civilian vessel) have much less troop-space than an AK (military vessel). The Japs can change xAKs to xAK-Ts (where some cargo space is modified to carry troops) as a conversion that takes 20-days or something, but that is basically all the Japs can do. They have some AKs, but no APs. Also Ive seen some LSDs, but other than that, its just xAKs that will do the troop lifting.

That means that when the initial landing bonus drops off (after three months) the japs will have a problem doing invasions. Not to mention that the new port-rules means that you cannot run the Japanese mega-convoys anymore. And not to mention that you have to pay much more attention to resource-movement in the home islands. Suddenly every Jap xAK and xAP is worth its weight in gold. That is a much refreshing change from witp where the Japs had more AKs and APs than they could use.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on August 18, 2009, 07:01:55 AM
Quote from: Bluebook on August 18, 2009, 01:22:17 AM
No, the xAK (civilian vessel) have much less troop-space than an AK (military vessel). The Japs can change xAKs to xAK-Ts (where some cargo space is modified to carry troops) as a conversion that takes 20-days or something, but that is basically all the Japs can do. They have some AKs, but no APs. Also Ive seen some LSDs, but other than that, its just xAKs that will do the troop lifting.

That means that when the initial landing bonus drops off (after three months) the japs will have a problem doing invasions. Not to mention that the new port-rules means that you cannot run the Japanese mega-convoys anymore. And not to mention that you have to pay much more attention to resource-movement in the home islands. Suddenly every Jap xAK and xAP is worth its weight in gold. That is a much refreshing change from witp where the Japs had more AKs and APs than they could use.
None of that has anything to do with whether a civilian cargo vessel should be designated an AK or an xAK. 

And if the game would have us believe that the Japanese had no civilian passenger ships with which to carry troops, that's even more silly.  That they had few dedicated amphibious ships is well-known, but, again, dedicated amphibious ships had the designations of APA and AKA (or else something in the L series).
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Bluebook on August 18, 2009, 09:41:32 AM
Quote from: grumbler on August 18, 2009, 07:01:55 AM
Quote from: Bluebook on August 18, 2009, 01:22:17 AM
No, the xAK (civilian vessel) have much less troop-space than an AK (military vessel). The Japs can change xAKs to xAK-Ts (where some cargo space is modified to carry troops) as a conversion that takes 20-days or something, but that is basically all the Japs can do. They have some AKs, but no APs. Also Ive seen some LSDs, but other than that, its just xAKs that will do the troop lifting.

That means that when the initial landing bonus drops off (after three months) the japs will have a problem doing invasions. Not to mention that the new port-rules means that you cannot run the Japanese mega-convoys anymore. And not to mention that you have to pay much more attention to resource-movement in the home islands. Suddenly every Jap xAK and xAP is worth its weight in gold. That is a much refreshing change from witp where the Japs had more AKs and APs than they could use.
None of that has anything to do with whether a civilian cargo vessel should be designated an AK or an xAK. 

And if the game would have us believe that the Japanese had no civilian passenger ships with which to carry troops, that's even more silly.  That they had few dedicated amphibious ships is well-known, but, again, dedicated amphibious ships had the designations of APA and AKA (or else something in the L series).

The way I understand it is this.
xAP/xAK - the civilian ship-types are just that, "normal" passenger ships or cargo ships. And while they have "space" they  have very poor "amphibious operations"-equipment on board. And (and this is very important) they have limited cranes (up to 15 tons or something like that, cant remember the exact details..

AP/AK -the military ship passenger or cargo ships. They have better equipment to handle "unload in a non-port"-situations. The APs have some form of "assault vessels" on board, they have better cranes that can unload almost any type of equipment in a non-port area.

APA/AKA - the allied specialized assault ships. This is the "bow opens and assault-vessels swim out"-type ships. They are designed and constructed to handle "unload in a non-port"-situations. They carry a large number of specialized assault vessels to do beach invasions etc.

Now, the difference between these three is that you practically can not unload heavy equipment (such as a radar or a tank) from an xAK unless you are in a port size 3 or larger. You can unload infantry and guns, but it takes a long time, and you will not be landing very much in each turn-impulse. The AKs and APs can unload faster, they unload larger detachments in each go, and you can unload heavy equipment such as radars or tanks in a port size less than 3. Still it will take a while to unload in a small port.

The AKAs and APAs can practically unload their entire load in one go. 

Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Tamas on August 18, 2009, 11:31:46 AM
This debate is quite :nerd:
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on August 18, 2009, 12:56:04 PM
Quote from: Bluebook on August 18, 2009, 09:41:32 AM
The way I understand it is this.
xAP/xAK - the civilian ship-types are just that, "normal" passenger ships or cargo ships. And while they have "space" they  have very poor "amphibious operations"-equipment on board. And (and this is very important) they have limited cranes (up to 15 tons or something like that, cant remember the exact details.. 
Yes, these are called AKs or APs when taken into US service.  The game has referred to them as this for many iterations.

QuoteAP/AK -the military ship passenger or cargo ships. They have better equipment to handle "unload in a non-port"-situations. The APs have some form of "assault vessels" on board, they have better cranes that can unload almost any type of equipment in a non-port area.
These were called "attack transports" and "Attack cargo ships" and given the designations APA and AKA.  There were no USN-operated transports which were neither taken from the civilian trade nor built as/converted to APAs.  A military-manned AP might have a higher crew training, but that would be it (and most of those crews would be Coast Guardsmen).

QuoteAPA/AKA - the allied specialized assault ships. This is the "bow opens and assault-vessels swim out"-type ships. They are designed and constructed to handle "unload in a non-port"-situations. They carry a large number of specialized assault vessels to do beach invasions etc.
Here you are confusing the Landing-type ships ("bow opens and assault vessels swarm out") with the assault auxiliaries.  APAs and AKAs were like regular APs and AKs except that they carried landing craft and lighters (and the crews of these small craft) so that they could unload across the beach.  This is exactly what is described above.  LSTs, LCIs, LCVs, etc all already exist in the game and don't need the APA designation.

QuoteNow, the difference between these three is that you practically can not unload heavy equipment (such as a radar or a tank) from an xAK unless you are in a port size 3 or larger. You can unload infantry and guns, but it takes a long time, and you will not be landing very much in each turn-impulse. The AKs and APs can unload faster, they unload larger detachments in each go, and you can unload heavy equipment such as radars or tanks in a port size less than 3. Still it will take a while to unload in a small port.
I understand that the game has created some kind of bogus distinction between xAKs and AKs, but my question is not what they did, but why they did it.  There is no difference between USCG-manned AKs and civilian-manned AKs, other than the level of danger you could reasonably expect them to endure.  The ships are physically identical (and, in fact, often cycled through both kinds of manning).  The USS Arthur Middleton, for instance, was the MV African Comet with a civilian crew from the outbreak of the war to January 1942.  At that time she was acquired by the USN and, without any modifications, was run by a USCG crew as USS Arthur Middleton (AP-55) until the summer of 1942, when she was militarized by the addition of weapons and boats and the deletion of flammibles, and re-designated APA-25 (though the latter not until 1 Jan 1942, some 4 months after her refit).

Ditto USS President Monroe (AP-104) except that she operated as a civilian-manned ship (SS President Monroe) until the middle of 1943, when she was taken over by the Navy and, without substantial modification, served as a normal AP until the end of the year.  Then she received landing craft (but never got the APA designation, for reasons never made clear).

QuoteThe AKAs and APAs can practically unload their entire load in one go.
The existence of APAs and AKAs makes perfect sense, as they existed in the war.  What makes no sense is the existence of "xAKs" and "xAPs," as these designators were never used, and the distinctions drawn between military-manned AP/AKs and civilian-manned passenger and cargo ships didn't exist (except maybe in the opposite direction, since the civilian crews would have been more experienced at handling cargoes).  They should all just be AKs and APs just as they were in previous games.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on August 18, 2009, 12:58:11 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 18, 2009, 11:31:46 AM
This debate is quite :nerd:
Yes, but the detail of the game invites such debate.  The designers include historical details that are wholly unnecessary in the name of "getting it right", and then use completely bogus ship designations for the vast majority of ships that appear in the game!
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Bluebook on August 18, 2009, 01:06:54 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 18, 2009, 12:56:04 PM
Quote from: Bluebook on August 18, 2009, 09:41:32 AM
The way I understand it is this.
xAP/xAK - the civilian ship-types are just that, "normal" passenger ships or cargo ships. And while they have "space" they  have very poor "amphibious operations"-equipment on board. And (and this is very important) they have limited cranes (up to 15 tons or something like that, cant remember the exact details.. 
Yes, these are called AKs or APs when taken into US service.  The game has referred to them as this for many iterations.

QuoteAP/AK -the military ship passenger or cargo ships. They have better equipment to handle "unload in a non-port"-situations. The APs have some form of "assault vessels" on board, they have better cranes that can unload almost any type of equipment in a non-port area.
These were called "attack transports" and "Attack cargo ships" and given the designations APA and AKA.  There were no USN-operated transports which were neither taken from the civilian trade nor built as/converted to APAs.  A military-manned AP might have a higher crew training, but that would be it (and most of those crews would be Coast Guardsmen).

QuoteAPA/AKA - the allied specialized assault ships. This is the "bow opens and assault-vessels swim out"-type ships. They are designed and constructed to handle "unload in a non-port"-situations. They carry a large number of specialized assault vessels to do beach invasions etc.
Here you are confusing the Landing-type ships ("bow opens and assault vessels swarm out") with the assault auxiliaries.  APAs and AKAs were like regular APs and AKs except that they carried landing craft and lighters (and the crews of these small craft) so that they could unload across the beach.  This is exactly what is described above.  LSTs, LCIs, LCVs, etc all already exist in the game and don't need the APA designation.

QuoteNow, the difference between these three is that you practically can not unload heavy equipment (such as a radar or a tank) from an xAK unless you are in a port size 3 or larger. You can unload infantry and guns, but it takes a long time, and you will not be landing very much in each turn-impulse. The AKs and APs can unload faster, they unload larger detachments in each go, and you can unload heavy equipment such as radars or tanks in a port size less than 3. Still it will take a while to unload in a small port.
I understand that the game has created some kind of bogus distinction between xAKs and AKs, but my question is not what they did, but why they did it.  There is no difference between USCG-manned AKs and civilian-manned AKs, other than the level of danger you could reasonably expect them to endure.  The ships are physically identical (and, in fact, often cycled through both kinds of manning).  The USS Arthur Middleton, for instance, was the MV African Comet with a civilian crew from the outbreak of the war to January 1942.  At that time she was acquired by the USN and, without any modifications, was run by a USCG crew as USS Arthur Middleton (AP-55) until the summer of 1942, when she was militarized by the addition of weapons and boats and the deletion of flammibles, and re-designated APA-25 (though the latter not until 1 Jan 1942, some 4 months after her refit).

Ditto USS President Monroe (AP-104) except that she operated as a civilian-manned ship (SS President Monroe) until the middle of 1943, when she was taken over by the Navy and, without substantial modification, served as a normal AP until the end of the year.  Then she received landing craft (but never got the APA designation, for reasons never made clear).

QuoteThe AKAs and APAs can practically unload their entire load in one go.
The existence of APAs and AKAs makes perfect sense, as they existed in the war.  What makes no sense is the existence of "xAKs" and "xAPs," as these designators were never used, and the distinctions drawn between military-manned AP/AKs and civilian-manned passenger and cargo ships didn't exist (except maybe in the opposite direction, since the civilian crews would have been more experienced at handling cargoes).  They should all just be AKs and APs just as they were in previous games.

It is apparent that you have more knowledge than me in these matters when it comes to "how things were in real life". I am just trying to explain the difference in game terms between the various ships as I have understood them after reading the discussions on their forum and the instruction book.

Alot of the old designations are changed now. Apart from what I outlined above, xAK and xAP means civilian ship, manned by civilians and pressed into military service. AK and AP means military crew, and the addition of some guns as well as equipment to handle amphibious operations, while the AKA and APA are special military ships with very special equipment such as small assault boats etc.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 18, 2009, 05:10:42 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 18, 2009, 12:58:11 PM
Quote from: Tamas on August 18, 2009, 11:31:46 AM
This debate is quite :nerd:
Yes, but the detail of the game invites such debate.  The designers include historical details that are wholly unnecessary in the name of "getting it right", and then use completely bogus ship designations for the vast majority of ships that appear in the game!

Wasn't this a fan-driven project?  Maybe you should write up your issues and submit them.  Worst that happens they blow you off; best is that some of the ideas get put into the next patch.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: The Minsky Moment on August 18, 2009, 05:13:07 PM
Quote from: grumbler on August 17, 2009, 01:04:44 PM
Quote from: Drakken on August 17, 2009, 09:05:32 AM
It isn't necessary to assign a search sector, but that means that the squadron will do a full 360 degree search, which is useless when you have only 4 patrol planes in the squadron. A good rule of thumb is 10 degrees for each plane.
Right.  And I am playing Nimitz,

That's always been an issue with that game.  Nimitz didn't assign individual sub patrols or set aircraft altitudes or assign routine PT boat missions or the details of torpedo replenishments and so on and so forth.  And that's without getting into things like commanding chinese infantry.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on August 18, 2009, 08:40:44 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on August 18, 2009, 05:13:07 PM
That's always been an issue with that game.  Nimitz didn't assign individual sub patrols or set aircraft altitudes or assign routine PT boat missions or the details of torpedo replenishments and so on and so forth.  And that's without getting into things like commanding chinese infantry.
True, but in previous iterations of the game I didn't need to do any of those things, either.  I did have to set plane upgrades, assign individual squadrons to missions, etc, but this was because the game's AI could not do those things.  Adding search sectors (and making 360 degree searches ineffective) forces me to do things the AI could do perfectly well.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Berkut on September 20, 2009, 03:19:20 PM
Is any of the Languish crew actively playing this?
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: The Brain on September 20, 2009, 03:26:05 PM
Does the game say "you are Nimitz"? Or is the being Nimitz part just something someone made up?
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on September 20, 2009, 05:13:47 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 20, 2009, 03:19:20 PM
Is any of the Languish crew actively playing this?
I am.  I haven't drawn any firm conclusions, though.  I very much like some of the changes, and very much unlike others.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Habbaku on September 20, 2009, 05:27:43 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 20, 2009, 03:19:20 PM
Is any of the Languish crew actively playing this?

Not I, but I have a barely-used copy of the original for sale if anyone wants!
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Drakken on September 21, 2009, 12:21:11 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 20, 2009, 03:19:20 PM
Is any of the Languish crew actively playing this?

Absolutely. But my PBEM game aborted because only masochists play a PBEM at 1 turn cycle, which spells years of game. :bleeding:

I'd settle for 2 or 3 turns cycle, though.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Drakken on September 21, 2009, 12:33:26 AM
And the official patch is up since last week, for those who didn't know.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on September 21, 2009, 09:02:48 AM
Quote from: Drakken on September 21, 2009, 12:21:11 AM
Absolutely. But my PBEM game aborted because only masochists play a PBEM at 1 turn cycle, which spells years of game. :bleeding:

I'd settle for 2 or 3 turns cycle, though.
After doing both, I reverted to 1-day cycles, with multiple cycles played per day.  There simply are times when you need to intervene on a daily basis (during carrier battles, for instance) and running a couple game cycles per real day isn't all that hard.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Syt on September 21, 2009, 11:00:58 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 21, 2009, 09:02:48 AM
Quote from: Drakken on September 21, 2009, 12:21:11 AM
Absolutely. But my PBEM game aborted because only masochists play a PBEM at 1 turn cycle, which spells years of game. :bleeding:

I'd settle for 2 or 3 turns cycle, though.
After doing both, I reverted to 1-day cycles, with multiple cycles played per day.  There simply are times when you need to intervene on a daily basis (during carrier battles, for instance) and running a couple game cycles per real day isn't all that hard.

That presumes you and your opponent are more or less in the same time zone, though, and have similar game time available during your non-work time.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Bluebook on September 21, 2009, 11:03:25 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 20, 2009, 03:19:20 PM
Is any of the Languish crew actively playing this?

I am. I have an AAR up at the matrix forum in case anyone is interested...

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2207450
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Drakken on September 21, 2009, 11:42:05 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 21, 2009, 11:00:58 AM
Quote from: grumbler on September 21, 2009, 09:02:48 AM
Quote from: Drakken on September 21, 2009, 12:21:11 AM
Absolutely. But my PBEM game aborted because only masochists play a PBEM at 1 turn cycle, which spells years of game. :bleeding:

I'd settle for 2 or 3 turns cycle, though.
After doing both, I reverted to 1-day cycles, with multiple cycles played per day.  There simply are times when you need to intervene on a daily basis (during carrier battles, for instance) and running a couple game cycles per real day isn't all that hard.

That presumes you and your opponent are more or less in the same time zone, though, and have similar game time available during your non-work time.

That also presumes that both you and your opponent devote their whole free time playing the game.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on September 21, 2009, 12:20:33 PM
Quote from: Drakken on September 21, 2009, 11:42:05 AM
That also presumes that both you and your opponent devote their whole free time playing the game.
You presume that everyone plays like you, checking each unit each day.  I can play turns in minutes, unless something unexpected happens in combat.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Drakken on September 21, 2009, 12:30:30 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 21, 2009, 12:20:33 PM
Quote from: Drakken on September 21, 2009, 11:42:05 AM
That also presumes that both you and your opponent devote their whole free time playing the game.
You presume that everyone plays like you, checking each unit each day.  I can play turns in minutes, unless something unexpected happens in combat.

You presume that everyone started to play with WITP years ago. I started to play seriously with AE coming out, so my level of experience is rather low.  :cry:
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on September 21, 2009, 12:40:51 PM
Quote from: Drakken on September 21, 2009, 12:30:30 PM
You presume that everyone started to play with WITP years ago. I started to play seriously with AE coming out, so my level of experience is rather low.  :cry:
I presume nothing about "everyone;" Just about you.  :P
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Ideologue on September 21, 2009, 06:20:42 PM
I'm considering getting it.  I need a good wargame since HOI3 ain't cutting it.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on September 23, 2009, 09:05:47 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on September 21, 2009, 06:20:42 PM
I'm considering getting it.  I need a good wargame since HOI3 ain't cutting it.
Just be warned that you will have to restart some early games, as they tweak the AI to avoid some crazy aggressiveness (like invading Canton island the second week of December, 1941).  They also had to allow the AI to avoid a lot of human-player restrictions (like some of the airfield size effects on large aircraft basing) and production without consuming resources.  The cumulative effect is to make the game less realistic and satisfying than straight WitP in some areas.

It is plenty good enough to learn the system of play from, though, so worth having in that respect.

The part that will amuse you, though, is the extremely low US aircraft production rates, and the designer's claim that these accurately reflect what could have historically been assigned to Pacific theater units (with the other 90% apparently going to Europe or the allies).  These absolutely accurate numbers, of course, are also constantly tweaked to make them even absolutlier correct!  :lol:
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: The Minsky Moment on September 23, 2009, 10:53:55 AM
grumbler what is your overall view of AE vs. WITP original?  Now that you have had some time with both.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Ideologue on September 23, 2009, 12:14:41 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 23, 2009, 09:05:47 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on September 21, 2009, 06:20:42 PM
I'm considering getting it.  I need a good wargame since HOI3 ain't cutting it.
Just be warned that you will have to restart some early games, as they tweak the AI to avoid some crazy aggressiveness (like invading Canton island the second week of December, 1941).  They also had to allow the AI to avoid a lot of human-player restrictions (like some of the airfield size effects on large aircraft basing) and production without consuming resources.  The cumulative effect is to make the game less realistic and satisfying than straight WitP in some areas.

It is plenty good enough to learn the system of play from, though, so worth having in that respect.

The part that will amuse you, though, is the extremely low US aircraft production rates, and the designer's claim that these accurately reflect what could have historically been assigned to Pacific theater units (with the other 90% apparently going to Europe or the allies).  These absolutely accurate numbers, of course, are also constantly tweaked to make them even absolutlier correct!  :lol:

But... but... my B-17s! :o
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on September 23, 2009, 01:00:32 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on September 23, 2009, 10:53:55 AM
grumbler what is your overall view of AE vs. WITP original?  Now that you have had some time with both.
Like I said, there are some things I like better (tenders make more sense now, and repair ships and yards are not just vague "helper" concepts).  Loading ships with combat troops is much more logical and error-free. The air training system is more detailed but maybe not better, just different.  I actually like the aggressive AI, but think it needs to be toned down to what the Japanese can hold.  This taking of bases and then lifting the unit to take another base is nuts, and exposes Japanese transports to being sunk on the cheap.  I like the way ship conversions are done. 

I don't like the confusing and needless renaming of ship types/abbreviations.  I don't care for the micromanagement of pilots, and the whole concept of withdrawing specific squadrons and ships, rather than types of each. I don't like the scattering of aviation squadrons into detachments at the start of scenarios.  The command system would work if there were not units unchangeably assigned to HQs that have to be withdrawn (ABDA, Malaya Army).

I am uncertain as to whether or not I think it is better to have the land units start as battalions and regiments, to be built into divisions, or to start as divisions.  The AI seems to handle the smaller units better, but it is a pain for the human player.

The biggest question mark for me at this point is the new production system.  If it actually does work as advertised (Japan unable to transport enough raw materials to maintain full production, even from the start) then the Japanese player will face decisions, which is good.  Allowing the AI to cheat like mad on production is a price worth paying for that, but the cheating is unwarranted if the system doesn't deliver the improvements promised.

Bottom line:  I think it is probably a better game, but the changes are so many, and so subtle, that I am not yet sure they are mostly changes for the better.  In other words, I can't yet tell if the fact I am enjoying the game more with AE is because it is better, or just because it is different.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on September 23, 2009, 01:04:25 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on September 23, 2009, 12:14:41 PM
But... but... my B-17s! :o
4E bombers are toned way down.  On the plus side for the Allies, the Wirriway is now a light bomber, and so can re-equip with something decent. 
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Berkut on September 28, 2009, 10:21:06 AM
Finally started reading Shattered Sword. It makes me want to play WitP again.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Ideologue on September 29, 2009, 10:38:12 PM
Quote from: Berkut on September 28, 2009, 10:21:06 AM
Finally started reading Shattered Sword. It makes me want to play WitP again.

Damn, I always meant to pick that up.  Good book?
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Berkut on September 29, 2009, 11:43:38 PM
So far it is, but I haven't gotten very far. Incredible amount of detail.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on October 01, 2009, 09:25:36 AM
I think that i have played the game enough now to say that yes, it is a definitely superior product compared to WitP, and that real fans of the latter (i.e. people who are considering playing it again several times) would probably consider their money well-spent on this one.  The AI is simply that much better (which is important even in PBEM play, since the AI actually runs the task forces and whatnot), and the mechanics of things are much improved (submarines are no longer uber, but neither is ASW).  The staggering amount of damage the Japanese do at Pearl Harbor (just run it four or five times; the average US loss seems to be about five battleships and eight smaller ships sunk, and another dozen or so ships badly damaged) and the absurdly low US aircraft production numbers in the early game are my only serious gripe at this point, other than the fact that AI Japan is active in China and I find the China theater a huge bore.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Berkut on October 01, 2009, 12:15:34 PM
It saddens me that Habs doesn't like this game - he would be insanely good at it.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Berkut on October 02, 2009, 08:39:52 AM
There are some pretty impressive AARs over on the Matrix board.

I am reading through this one right now:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2238110&mpage=1&key=
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Caliga on October 02, 2009, 08:50:26 AM
Quote from: Berkut on October 01, 2009, 12:15:34 PM
It saddens me that Habs doesn't like this game - he would be insanely good at it.
Are you his gay lover?  Tell the truth.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Berkut on October 02, 2009, 08:53:39 AM
Quote from: Caliga on October 02, 2009, 08:50:26 AM
Quote from: Berkut on October 01, 2009, 12:15:34 PM
It saddens me that Habs doesn't like this game - he would be insanely good at it.
Are you his gay lover?  Tell the truth.

Actually, he is all pissed off at me at the moment. We are having a gamers quarrel, because I am not working hard enough to stop someone else from winning so he can.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Caliga on October 02, 2009, 09:26:46 AM
Quote from: Berkut on October 02, 2009, 08:53:39 AM
Actually, he is all pissed off at me at the moment. We are having a gamers quarrel, because I am not working hard enough to stop someone else from winning so he can.
:(

"I wish I knew how to quit you, Habbie." :weep:
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Ed Anger on October 02, 2009, 09:28:31 AM
Chicks get mad when you don't support them when playing Risk.

I'm not attacking Africa, dear
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Ideologue on October 04, 2009, 10:54:47 PM
Quote from: grumbler on October 01, 2009, 09:25:36 AM
I think that i have played the game enough now to say that yes, it is a definitely superior product compared to WitP, and that real fans of the latter (i.e. people who are considering playing it again several times) would probably consider their money well-spent on this one.  The AI is simply that much better (which is important even in PBEM play, since the AI actually runs the task forces and whatnot), and the mechanics of things are much improved (submarines are no longer uber, but neither is ASW).  The staggering amount of damage the Japanese do at Pearl Harbor (just run it four or five times; the average US loss seems to be about five battleships and eight smaller ships sunk, and another dozen or so ships badly damaged) and the absurdly low US aircraft production numbers in the early game are my only serious gripe at this point, other than the fact that AI Japan is active in China and I find the China theater a huge bore.

Aw, I always liked the campaign in China, although it would've been more fun if land combat had worked better in vanilla (I understand there have been major tweaks viz. LCUs in AE :unsure: ).

I remember one game I played as the Allies against vonmoltke where he had put his China Expeditionary Force on AI control, while I manually managed the KMT and CCP.  Very lol, I think I came close to retaking Guangdong before superior Japanese firepower and a renewed interest in the Chinese theatre put a stop to my plans. :D
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Ideologue on October 04, 2009, 10:57:03 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 02, 2009, 09:28:31 AM
Chicks get mad when you don't support them when playing Risk.

I'm not attacking Africa, dear

The last time I played Risk, Korea won.  Our friend and I considered each other to be the only threats, and hence repeatedly backstabbed each other and generally tore each other to pieces.  Korea wound up able to eliminate both of us because, due to our mutual betrayals, neither one of us were able to finish her when she was nearly destroyed. :(
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Ideologue on October 04, 2009, 10:58:01 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 01, 2009, 12:15:34 PM
It saddens me that Habs doesn't like this game - he would be insanely good at it.

I thought you both hated WitP. :unsure:
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Agelastus on October 05, 2009, 07:10:27 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 04, 2009, 10:58:01 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 01, 2009, 12:15:34 PM
It saddens me that Habs doesn't like this game - he would be insanely good at it.

I thought you both hated WitP. :unsure:

I thought Berkut liked the game, but then became frustrated with aspects of the interface and the way some of the units acted and stopped playing until they were fixed?:unsure:
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Berkut on October 05, 2009, 07:47:28 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on October 05, 2009, 07:10:27 AM
Quote from: Ideologue on October 04, 2009, 10:58:01 PM
Quote from: Berkut on October 01, 2009, 12:15:34 PM
It saddens me that Habs doesn't like this game - he would be insanely good at it.

I thought you both hated WitP. :unsure:

I thought Berkut liked the game, but then became frustrated with aspects of the interface and the way some of the units acted and stopped playing until they were fixed?:unsure:

Yeah, that is about right.

In fact, I would say WitP is possibly the best multi-player computer wargame I have ever played, hidden behind a nightmare of an interface, and a developers fascination with often meaningless micro-management.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on October 05, 2009, 08:30:20 AM
Quote from: Berkut on October 05, 2009, 07:47:28 AM
...a developers fascination with often meaningless micro-management.
Wait until you see the AE micro-management!  :lol:

You don't just train air units, you train them for specific missions (i.e. the same missions you can assign them to in non-training mode:  escort, sweep, etc).  The great thing is that the pilots don't gain skills in the missions, they gain skills from an entirely different skillset (defensive maneuvering, low-level torpedo attack, naval search, etc) which cannot be correlated with missions!

The concept is fine:  you stop the shuffle between aircraft types by making the squadron pilots good at only a few things.  The executing is :bleeding: because nothing correlates positively to anything else.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Berkut on August 09, 2022, 10:31:41 PM
Necrothread!

Someone posted a PBEM AAR (or the start of one on FB) which made me nostalgic.

grumbler, do you still play at all? What is the current state of the AE?
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on August 10, 2022, 07:16:40 AM
Ironically, I just reloaded the latest beta version (that is, after all these years, finally going to be promoted to the "final" version of the game).  I'm playing japan vs Ai using The Reluctant Admiral.

The beta incorporates better ways to handle off-map movement, basing, and production, changed Japanese production so that you can add single points of additional production to any Japanese factory, and improved the routines for AAW, ships strike, and air-to-air.  Plus a bunch of backend stuff.

It's not a revolutionary change, but a nice evolution of the system by people who knew what they were doing.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on August 23, 2022, 12:55:16 PM
I love this game even though I never get through a whole year.
My last game had the AI ambush and sink the Yorktown off Canton island. Also I can never seem to avoid the Enterprise getting torpedoed by a sub in the first few months and getting sent to drydock.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Berkut on September 03, 2022, 10:40:18 PM
Its on sale right now for $16.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: grumbler on September 04, 2022, 09:21:29 AM
Quote from: Berkut on September 03, 2022, 10:40:18 PMIts on sale right now for $16.

That makes the decision easier, doesn't it?  :lol:
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on September 04, 2022, 10:27:58 AM
It's definitely worth it at that price.
There's smaller scenarios that are also fun and more approachable. Coral Sea is pretty quick.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Maladict on September 04, 2022, 12:35:33 PM
Oh wow, they're doing Rule the Waves 3? Interesting
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Syt on September 04, 2022, 12:38:13 PM
Quote from: Maladict on September 04, 2022, 12:35:33 PMOh wow, they're doing Rule the Waves 3? Interesting

Timeline 1890 - 1970 seems ambitious. RTW1 was very focused on the run up to WW1. RTW2 added WW2 - haven't played it much, so not sure how well it handled the transition to carrier warfare, or the scale of the Pacific War. So kinda curious how they'll handle extending the timeline even further.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Tamas on September 04, 2022, 04:15:36 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 04, 2022, 12:38:13 PM
Quote from: Maladict on September 04, 2022, 12:35:33 PMOh wow, they're doing Rule the Waves 3? Interesting

Timeline 1890 - 1970 seems ambitious. RTW1 was very focused on the run up to WW1. RTW2 added WW2 - haven't played it much, so not sure how well it handled the transition to carrier warfare, or the scale of the Pacific War. So kinda curious how they'll handle extending the timeline even further.

IIRC it starts from the ironclad era, 1860 or so. I wish they went with that but stopped with WW2 the latest.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Syt on September 05, 2022, 12:33:46 AM
I mean, I wish them good luck with this, but I feel that in such games there's often a trade off. Either cover one specific area extremely well, or cover a large area very generically. It's rare that someone pulls off a large range with huge detail. Take Operational Art of War vs. the Decisive Campaigns series. Command: Modern Operations springs to mind as an exception, but there's probably aspects that it sims better in some areas than in others. Perhaps Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin or the original Steel Panthers I & II fall into that category.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: HisMajestyBOB on September 05, 2022, 08:10:33 AM
I love RtW1 and 2, but agree that expanding the timeline will dilute the focus. Early 1900 battles are already slugfests since the crappy guns and ammo of the era can't defeat anything armored, and I fail to see how going back to 1890 will do anything besides resulting in another 10 years of boring battles with slow ships and short range guns.

A lot of the other changes look really good though. I'm particularly excited about having actual captains and admirals.
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Syt on September 05, 2022, 01:21:19 PM
Btw, if someone needs something to have on in the background for a very long time - TortugaPower has a 66 episode AAR for RTW2 as Austria-Hungary. :P

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuXzIAdwiCCzxQpfL4yxmn8j4qqUpfG21
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: celedhring on September 07, 2022, 02:14:43 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 05, 2022, 01:21:19 PMBtw, if someone needs something to have on in the background for a very long time - TortugaPower has a 66 episode AAR for RTW2 as Austria-Hungary. :P

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLuXzIAdwiCCzxQpfL4yxmn8j4qqUpfG21

Rule the Waves is definitely in the category of games that I watch other people play so I don't have to  :P  :blush:
Title: Re: War in the Pacific - Admiral's Edition: Pricing announced.
Post by: Alcibiades on September 08, 2022, 11:26:24 PM
Rule the waves is fantastic, own one and two, and I will buy three even though it was supposed to be just a DLC released this summer so it won't justify what ever price tag they put on it, at all.

Two did carrier warfare well I think, but they need to do something about the map and that whole system, which they don't plan on updating for this iteration they confirmed on their forum - since before their Matrix deal it was just going to be a DLC.

Ultimate Admirals: Dreadnaughts is doing what they are doing in a much better way, unfortunately, and they've pretty much blatantly stolen a lot of their mechanics.  I'm sure RTW is way better in the details and how things actually work, but visually its not even a competition.