So people, if you checked the Paradox boards, you know I am in a recently started AARed beta MP game of this.
Now, altough "MP" means PBEM here, and we all know what a bunch of unreliable quitters you are, I still wanted to advertise here that I think the MP is great, because not only there is a military system identical to the other AGEOD games (altough I haven't tried to form a US division larger than 3 army groups, ala PDH), but also a global commerce and economy system which puts Victoria 2's to shame. You can try to corner it, compete via number of merchant fleets in a given trade zone etc.
So, I want to PBEM this with the unwashed masses once it is out. What we are doing for the beta game, is to have this nifty little tool Dropbox, which gives you a shared folder you all access. So the host generates the turn file, copies it over, then eafch player copies over their turn file when done, the host then takes those files, resolve the turn, and repeat the process.
Yes, it is more cumbersome than TCP/IP, but the only real work is for the host.
So you guys should buy it 10 days from now (its $20 FFS), get some practice, and then we start.
I am likely to get it close to release and might be willing to get my ass kicked in a PBEM sometime though I am a bit worried about the length of the game (the campaign is ~1700 turns long) and how quickly turns would be expected to be turned around.
The manual is available for download on the AGEOD forums now
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=21294
Quote from: Tamas on May 27, 2011, 02:36:19 AM
(altough I haven't tried to form a US division larger than 3 army groups, ala PDH),
What exactly was the exploit PDH used in the ACW game? It sounds like they fixed it because you can only have 17 elements in one division, but i have never heard the full story.
He is mad because I made full sized (in terms of elements) in divisions, and those into full sized (30-40k men) corps in 1862. I essentially used Burnside's Grand Divisions to steamroll Tamas, and he was mad that I could concentrate forces.
Everyone knows that if the North hadn't had its head in its ass the war could have been over in 1862.
Well regarding turnaround times, yes, its a major issue on the insane scale of the grand campaign.
So in our future PBEM game, anyone who is not ready to upload AT LEAST one turn a day, should stay away.
Quote from: Tamas on May 27, 2011, 07:45:22 AM
So in our future PBEM game, anyone who is not ready to upload AT LEAST one turn a day, should stay away.
that excludes you :P
Tamas can't even be bothered to type "Pass." in a 24-hour period. No way in hell will he be capable of a quick turnaround on a game like this.
Quote from: Habbaku on May 27, 2011, 10:35:18 AM
Tamas can't even be bothered to type "Pass." in a 24-hour period. No way in hell will he be capable of a quick turnaround on a game like this.
Right. That happened: once. And I was still an order of magnitude faster than your off-forum buddies, even when that happened :P
The only one who can cry about this with any kind of authenticity is Berkut, because thats his shtick
Anyways, here is a preview:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/pride-of-nations-pc-game-preview.htm
Also the outofeight guy has been commenting and semi-AARing the game over at the wargamers.
Quote from: Tamas on May 27, 2011, 10:54:31 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on May 27, 2011, 10:35:18 AM
Tamas can't even be bothered to type "Pass." in a 24-hour period. No way in hell will he be capable of a quick turnaround on a game like this.
Right. That happened: once. And I was still an order of magnitude faster than your off-forum buddies, even when that happened :P
The only one who can cry about this with any kind of authenticity is Berkut, because thats his shtick
You're kidding, right?
Check out journal entries 1077 (England, 2011-05-23 11:14AM) and 1078 (France, "pass", 2011-05-24 01:49PM) here:
http://acts.warhorsesim.com/dynamic/journal.asp?id=41521
Also 1042 and 1043 (another 25 hour delay), 956 and 957 (24 hours for a truly unimpressive winter), and 890 and 891 (23 hours to say "I PASS. One Round.").
:rolleyes:
BACK TO TOPIC:
the demo is out!
Quote from: Tamas on May 27, 2011, 11:01:59 AM
Anyways, here is a preview:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/pride-of-nations-pc-game-preview.htm
Did you write that?
QuoteKeeping the populace happy at home and overseas happy is imperative. Seven factors make the contest of a population with each factor creating opportunities and friction. The relatively small populations early in the game makes cooptation simple but populations grow, increasing problems with social classes, religion, and ethnicity. Problems can cause production increase, riots, and revolts. These problems give rise to militancy and ugly crowds in the streets.
QuoteKeeping the domestic market full not only helps mange populaces
:hmm:
Yes, I write on armchairgeneral.com when I have a bit of free time between stealing and tending to my beet farm. And I do it instead of ACTS turns.
Quote from: Tamas on May 27, 2011, 01:08:43 PM
Yes, I write on armchairgeneral.com when I have a bit of free time between stealing and tending to my beet farm. And I do it instead of ACTS turns.
:lol:
At least he's finally come clean. Now the healing can begin.
Quote from: Tamas on May 27, 2011, 01:08:43 PM
when I have a bit of free time between stealing and tending to my beet farm.
:lmfao: Well said
Quote from: Tamas on May 27, 2011, 01:08:43 PM
Yes, I write on armchairgeneral.com when I have a bit of free time between stealing and tending to my beet farm. And I do it instead of ACTS turns.
owned :lmfao:
Quote from: PDH on May 27, 2011, 07:43:02 AM
Everyone knows that if the North hadn't had its head in its ass the war could have been over in 1862.
September 17, 1862, to be precise. Lee placed his nuts in the vice and anyone but Little Napoleon would have turned the crank.
Waiting to hear some reviews from Languishites.
Looks like it might be good but it is being compared to V2.
lol, while checking out the tutorials, most of the British officers were 'stressed'.
Bloody poofs.
Its out. And thanks to Paradox's shitty releases, I can't pull the trigger on a 20 dollar game.
I'll find out how bad it is in about an hour.
http://www.mediafire.com/?j3v21333k2p76ye
Here's a download link for the manual for anyone interested.
Steam's offering a free DLC.
Played the tutorials yesterday, and a few turns as Prussia. I'm a bit lost at the moment; but I like what I see so far.
Quote from: Syt on June 07, 2011, 10:54:15 PM
Played the tutorials yesterday, and a few turns as Prussia. I'm a bit lost at the moment; but I like what I see so far.
I'm in the same boat. I'm not sure the US is a very good 'starter' country, I might have to play a Japan or S-P game for a few years to get my head around everything that is going on.
Well, I looked at the newbie hints in the Paradox forum yesterday. They suggested to take it SLOW - in many cases you'll do just an option or two per turn, and that it's hard to mess up the game in a turn or two. Also, that it takes TIME to make any big changes. You can't just claim a colony in 1 or 2 years like in Vicky.
Though I have to say that when I went through the colonial tutorial yesterday and saw the options there I was: :mmm:
Natural, geographical, anthropological expeditions, sending merchants and mercenaries, build various outposts, send a couple of different military expeditions (pacify, punisch etc.), send the gunboats ...
I think I'll start over as Prussia today.
Btw, I noticed that you can build economic structures in foreign lands - how does that work, mechanics wise? I love that you can build an informal empire that way (think U.S. Fruit in Middle America or the British in Argentina), but what's the pros/cons for the investing party and for the country that gets those investments?
Well, I went ahead and pulled the trigger. I think I have least 20 bucks in pennies in a jar.
And after seeing how the full game runs (slow), I now have: buyer's remorse.
Any good AARs?
I'm looking at getting this now that Victoria II is getting a broken expansion rather a decent patch.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on June 08, 2011, 05:53:18 PM
Any good AARs?
I'm looking at getting this now that Victoria II is getting a broken expansion rather a decent patch.
Pdox seems to be taking a beating
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 08, 2011, 05:32:50 PM
And after seeing how the full game runs (slow), I now have: buyer's remorse.
Dunno, interface runs pretty smoothly for me; turns take 2-3 minutes to process, though.
Have an i7-2630QM 4x 2.00GHz processor with 16GB RAM.
Quote from: Syt on June 09, 2011, 12:49:31 AM
Dunno, interface runs pretty smoothly for me; turns take 2-3 minutes to process, though.
Have an i7-2630QM 4x 2.00GHz processor with 16GB RAM.
Can we assume that this game uses one of the four cores, then?
That would be some mighty fine programming there, Lou.
Turn times are 2 minutes for me, yes. We have been hammering the dev over this of course, and still he might be skimming off some seconds here and there, but there is only so much calculation a single core can perform. There is an option to prevent map lag, which of course loads the map into memory right away, can't recall the exact option name. Also there is an option to not give the AI its full time.
Ok. I'm still going to give this a go, since I've enjoyed AEGOD's previous efforts.
Quote from: Norgy on June 09, 2011, 02:08:02 AM
Ok. I'm still going to give this a go, since I've enjoyed AEGOD's previous efforts.
I think it is very good and will only get better, but the turn resolution time IS an issue, I am not denying it. But you see, you have the operational warfare, replacement and supply model ala AACW, a production and consumption system, a commerce and trade route system, population contentment, colonization, and all these heavily interact with each other, plus you have AIs which can't be braindead
It's fine by me. Turn resolutions don't really bother me that much, although I am sure it can be prohibiting for getting new people to try these types of games.
I'll try a few SP runs and if I am feeling particularly frivolous and confident, I might even PBEM.
So I decide to play the US. First turn, build a cavalry division, drop a bunch of those bribe chief things in the west. Second turn, run out of money. Third turn, all the Indian areas have little fires on them. Cavalry still building. LOL.
I'll give it another whirl when I have more time this weekend.
I used to read whole chapters of books during the AI turn resolution in "Battles of Napoleon" on C64, so I'm not bothered overly much.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?539829-Pride-of-Nation-s-Strategy-Guide-Overview-and-General-Strategies
I was sorta on the right track with building a cavalry division.
QuotePlaying the Game as the United States of America
At first glance, the USA seems destined to rule the world. Two gigantic oceans protecting the homeland, a small swath of British Canada to the north, and the newly defeated Mexico to the south. In many ways, the USA is the easist Great Power to play; when added to the USA's ample resources and technical advancement, it is concievable that the Americans will be the strongest power by 1920.
Don't bet on it. The USA has several things going against it at the start. First, the original owners still are not too pleased the Euro-Americans showed up at Plymouth Rock. At the start of the game, the Cherokee and Sioux are openly hostile and will happily destroy forts, tradeposts, missions, and so on unless they are stopped. The USA's relatively small army is either tied to coastal fortifications, or is fairly slow infantry (and understrength to boot). Build, as fast as possible, three highly mobile and effective cavalry divisions; the combination of heavy/light cavalry and horse artillery is the doom of the native raiders. One column should be based in the north (Minnesota), one in the center (Osage/Ft Leavenworth, Kansas) and one in the south (Ft El Paso, Texas). In the first year, aggressively pursue and destroy the Cherokee. If they are given time to spawn more raiders, you may find yourself trying to stop raids on St. Louis and Memphis. Secondary to this western expansion effort, in the 1852-1853 timeframe, build a small mobile force on the west coast (California). Apache raiders and rebels will attempt to do as the Cherokee/Sioux, but with less aggression at the start.
The second issue with the USA is the lack of advanced industry, specifically Mechanical Goods factories. These are critical to the building of Goods, which are in turn needed for units, colonization and industrial expansion. Focus on the first year or two of the game in becoming independent of overseas trade for basic needs, such as minerals, nitrates and iron. Beginning in 1853-54, focus on building up your Mechanical and Manufactured Goods, along with the backbone of your military supply system (depots, forts and their railroads). The only way you can secure the West is by rail and depot. Protect both, along with colonial and commercial buildings.
The third issue is the most important one for the USA. On the horizon is the most devastating conflict in American history--the Civil War. As the USA, you only have 10 years to secure the West, build up a standing force to hold off the Confederacy, and secure the Union. You will need riverine forces (gunboats) to secure the Mississippi & Ohio Rivers. Build a fortress and man it with guns and men in southern Illinois. It should be your springboard for reconquest of your nation. Massively strengthen Washington DC. IF IT IS LOST YOU WILL MOST LIKELY LOSE THE WAR (and the game). It is an important industrial and logistical hub, and worth massive amounts of Prestige. Upgrade the fortifications, put in a fortress division (or two), engineers and artillery, along with a good defensive general. Then begin the war in earnest--push a column down the Mississippi, another through Kentucky-Tennessee, and the third in Virginia. PON does a great job of replicating the strategic issues of the war--you will be canalized along the DC-Richmond and Nashville-Chattanooga-Atlanta routes. The war will be costly, and it will set you back on your road to building a nation. Expect casualties and destruction at historical levels. It will take you 5-10 years, in some areas, to fully recover.
Colonization. There is a good reason the USA did not have colonies in Africa. You have an entire continent to colonize. Most of the American West is partially colonized at start, but it is going to be expensive and time consuming. First priority (after defeating the natives) is to build the transcontinental railroad. Get a series of linked provinces to high enough development and CP to build a single line to the west (the southern route, starting in Kansas and winding through New Mexico and Arizona is probably the fastest). You will need it to move troops, leaders and supplies; you start with a country effectively split in two at the start of the game. Build all the Expeditionary Brigades you can. Use them to occupy regions you want to colonize BEFORE you put colonization buildings in place ("business follows the Flag"). If you don't you will have uprisings that will destroy both existing colonial buildings and interfere with ongoing efforts. Nothing is more frustrating that being one turn from having that Military Outpost built and having a raider show up and destroy everything. Back up these occupation troops with a mobile column (I prefer a Cavalry Division with a good Hussar leader), railroad supply lines, and depots. I like to fortify Osage Prairie (Ft Leavenworth, Kansas) with a pre-Industrial fortress and a Fortress Artillery unit. Both are expensive, but that ensures their safety from raiders.
Expansion. Potential areas of expansion (and conflict!) are to the north (British, and hopefully American, Canada) and Mexico. Of the two, Mexico is easier to beat in a war (where you might get concessions) but Canada offers the chance to rapidly colonize/gain influence before the British can solidlify their hold. Much like the USA, the British Empire has finite resources--every State Fund pound that goes to India is one less going to Canada. From there, Alaska is a potential further expansion. You will get objectives thoughout the game (Cuba, Samoa, Hawaii, Guam, Puerto Rico, are standard) that may push you in different directions; it is up to the player to decide.
General Thoughts: You will need to build a Mechanical Goods (aka, "machine parts") factory as soon as possible. The world doesn't have enough, and it is one of those items that basically drives everything else. For example, 1 Mech Goods is required to make 6 Manufactured Goods. You don't need piles of them (unless you want to export--not a bad idea, BTW, as it will energize the global economy), but you do need them.
The USA has the potential to be the Great Power at the end of the game, but only careful industrial expansion, planned and focused colonization, and a successful conclusion to the Civil War will lead to victory.
There are some interesting mechanics in here - particularly the colonization game and the way international trade, commerce and investment are handled.
However, it looks to me what they have done is taken a operational wargame engine designed for discrete conflicts of a few years in length, and grafted it onto a grand strategy game with a 90 yeer campaign. The result is scale confusion - the military game requires 15 day turns in order to allow more than one set of orders to be sent to the troops in a month (in an era where wars sometimes didn't last much longer that); on the other hand, there really is no rational reason to be revising international trade orders every 15 days, and other basic functions like recruitment, colonial ventures, building construction, etc. take months to complete. Combined with the 2 minute lag for turn resolution, this makes playing even a partial campaign a massive time commitment. (eg if one did nothing but immediate press turn end, a year would take nearly an hour to complete).
I'd hate to be that guy who plays 10 years in and then discovered he really screwed up early and needs to restart the game.
I have to say the game is somewhat daunting. Not exactly for the casual gamer, but I think I'll eventually like this a lot.
You have to give it to Paradox and AGEOD for coming up with the best games up until you actually play them.
Quote from: Berkut on June 09, 2011, 11:42:50 AM
You have to give it to Paradox and AGEOD for coming up with the best games up until you actually play them.
didn't know you play games which have a single player mode :P
Played about 6 turns, new US game. Discovered you can build expeditionary brigades, build 4 of those 1inf,1cav ones since they are cheaper. I start using them to hammer the Sioux and Cherokee(why is the Cherokee so hostile? Jackson knocked the fight out of them until the CW). 1st brigade rolls up against the Sioux... gets smashed. LOL.
Another restart coming. Need real soldiers against the assholes I guess.
I think you need to listen to the Rednex song Spirit Of The Hawk to understand the power of Native Americans, Ed. Maybe then you won't underestimate them.
Quote from: The Brain on June 09, 2011, 12:26:05 PM
I think you need to listen to the Rednex song Spirit Of The Hawk to understand the power of Native Americans, Ed. Maybe then you won't underestimate them.
I already listened to that Europe song.
Alright, re-started as Austria and I think I've got a handle on the economics. Screw killing indians while I try to learn the damn game.
Protip: Prussia and Russia will buy all your spare iron and minerals. Slavs like shiny rocks!
So are we going to PBEM this after 1.02 is out?
Got another half year in as Austria. As soon a a new goods factory pops online, the game gets funner. You can start getting goods in at a decent clip to build larger military units, as a new corps takes 20 something goods. And I don't trust those wops, and Radetzky looks asleep in his picture in Venice. So another corps to shove down their dirty greasy wop asses will make me feel better.
I better get some new generals(or figure out how to get them) soon. They all look like death.
Yeah that goods factory is absolutely crucial for Austria, because the manu. goods market can dry the fuck up, and if you tried to sneak on using imports, well, you are fooked blinking while the others industrialize, because you have a big army so you need a given amount just to maintain your posture.
It's enjoyable so far, in the sense that I enjoy ventures into the unknown. The US is perhaps a bit too large to start out with, as I was confuzzled.
Very detailed game, and a lot of stuff to keep track of. The GUI is ok but a tad small, and turns resolve quite quickly with a i7 2600.
Picked this up, and am enjoying it so far. Steep learning curve and some confusion about ends versus means (prestige is affected by a lot of things I don't think were involved in national prestige, like ship and unit decommissionings) but it all seems to make sense after you play it a bit.
How's the complexity compared to Victoria?
Quote from: Kleves on June 11, 2011, 01:25:36 AM
How's the complexity compared to Victoria?
First impression is that Victoria is Lego while this is the Manhattan Project.
It's incredibly easy to get lost.
I still wonder how the hell I manage my merchant fleets and the tech tree.
While both have some underlying system you need to understand at some point, it looks like PoN is far superior at hiding it.
There is really no managing of the tech tree. The only influence you can have is to spend $250 to increase the speed of one tech 5x for one turn.
I realised that too. And it seems like a really bad investment early in the game compared to ramping up infrastructure or building either raw material sources or manufacturing plants.
Bids and offers system on world market is exactly what I wanted to see, reminds me of Imperialism games. I wonder how price is calculated though.
I've just looked into this, first I've heard of it.
First thought was it was some fan made mod for Victoria like Decades of Darkness and all that but apparently not...Its like War in the Pacific?
Don't think I'll be getting it, don't like these steep learning curve counter games. Never willing to put the time into learning them. Especially since tutorials always suck (this is how you use a mouse!)
Had a very weird experience in the current US game I am playing. A "crisis" erupted when the US, for unknown reasons, burst into crisis something something with Prussia, of all countries, in Samoa, of all places. I couldn't figure out exactly what was happening, because the game would refer only to "Initiator" and Target" while cleverly making sure you didn't know which your nation was. I chose the option of minimizing possible prestige losses, since all of the other options appeared to require that i know whether I was an initiator or a target (and thus whether I had "just cause" or not, which in this case, I believe, belonged to the target). Always minimize the possible losses when one cannot make any meaningful decisions, right?
Wrong! :lol: I lost the maximum possible prestige and whatever stake I had in Samoa (if I even had any; again, the game didn't let me see anything in Samoa, which may have meant that I didn't have anything there). Insofar as I can tell, the decisions I made in the crisis had no impact on the outcome. I went back and changed the decision to something escalate something something, and had the exact same outcome.
I also must admit that I don't understand why the AI shuts down factories. The message just says that I lack the operating costs, without specifying further. I have plenty of the resources used by these factories at the beginning and end of the turn, with the shortest supply being that of minerals (of which I end the turn with 20 to 25). All of the 4 or 5 factories that shut down each turn use minerals, which leads me to believe that the AI is shutting down all of these factories because of something to do with minerals - but the game doesn't tell me what, since I end the turn with more than enough minerals to have kept the factories open. I think there is something going on with the timing, maybe, and that maybe imports don't count towards the turn they arrive, or something. It is just weird.
Still, the game is fun to play, and the black boxes I have run across are really no more black than the ones I run across in Paradox games - they are just more explicitly black boxes.
Crisises over too minimal colonial penetrations (like Samoa for USA and Prussia at start), and factory closure messages not specifying reason are two things you can certainly look out for in the next patch, but don't quote me. :ph34r:
I think (and I'd like to emphasize that) I read in the strategy guide that closed factories may open again once there are raw materials or whatever present?
Quote from: grumbler on June 11, 2011, 01:26:00 PM
Had a very weird experience in the current US game I am playing. A "crisis" erupted when the US, for unknown reasons, burst into crisis something something with Prussia, of all countries, in Samoa, of all places. I couldn't figure out exactly what was happening, because the game would refer only to "Initiator" and Target" while cleverly making sure you didn't know which your nation was. I chose the option of minimizing possible prestige losses, since all of the other options appeared to require that i know whether I was an initiator or a target (and thus whether I had "just cause" or not, which in this case, I believe, belonged to the target). Always minimize the possible losses when one cannot make any meaningful decisions, right?
Wrong! :lol: I lost the maximum possible prestige and whatever stake I had in Samoa (if I even had any; again, the game didn't let me see anything in Samoa, which may have meant that I didn't have anything there). Insofar as I can tell, the decisions I made in the crisis had no impact on the outcome. I went back and changed the decision to something escalate something something, and had the exact same outcome.
I've run into it, but I got almost 300 Prestige, while Prussia almost 500. I didn't know what was going on with this minigame, so I prepared deck using one of templates.
Hell, I had hard time finding Samoa on map after that ;)
QuoteI also must admit that I don't understand why the AI shuts down factories. The message just says that I lack the operating costs, without specifying further. I have plenty of the resources used by these factories at the beginning and end of the turn, with the shortest supply being that of minerals (of which I end the turn with 20 to 25). All of the 4 or 5 factories that shut down each turn use minerals, which leads me to believe that the AI is shutting down all of these factories because of something to do with minerals - but the game doesn't tell me what, since I end the turn with more than enough minerals to have kept the factories open. I think there is something going on with the timing, maybe, and that maybe imports don't count towards the turn they arrive, or something. It is just weird.
...
My factories lacked steel, but it happened just when I spent whole stock.
Got up to the end of 1851. My defensive pact ally Prussia has plopped 55,000 men within my borders. I don't care for that. I've got the Austrian economy singing, with 2 goods and a steel factory built and extra mines built. By cutting off goods exports in the one screen, I have scraped up enough goods to afford a Guard corps, another regular corps, 2 expedition brigades and a marine brigade. There may be trouble ahead, as I am nosing around in the Horn of Africa, mainly to head off the Wops. I plan on shoving that Marine brigade up their colonial asses.
Greasy wop fucks. I'm watching you moped riding assholes.
Quote from: szmik on June 11, 2011, 02:31:22 PM
My factories lacked steel, but it happened just when I spent whole stock.
Now it is happening to West Point, despite the fact that I have plenty of cash and man goods, the only things WP requires. :(
There must be something happening mid-turn that causes a temporary shortage, and the site closes down even though there are plenty of goods just before, and just after, the shutdown. And you have to manually reactivate all those sites.
Interestingly, I had the Samoa crisis pop up again two turns after I lost the Samoa crisis decisively, and I again suffered a decisive defeat. I now have only 100 prestige! :lol:
Quote from: Norgy on June 11, 2011, 02:04:16 PM
I think (and I'd like to emphasize that) I read in the strategy guide that closed factories may open again once there are raw materials or whatever present?
I don't think the AI will ever reopen a factory that was shut down. One of the devs said there is currently no way for the AI to differentiate between a factory shut down because of lack of resources and one intentionally closed by the player.
Quote from: grumbler on June 11, 2011, 04:21:48 PM
Quote from: szmik on June 11, 2011, 02:31:22 PM
My factories lacked steel, but it happened just when I spent whole stock.
Now it is happening to West Point, despite the fact that I have plenty of cash and man goods, the only things WP requires. :(
There must be something happening mid-turn that causes a temporary shortage, and the site closes down even though there are plenty of goods just before, and just after, the shutdown. And you have to manually reactivate all those sites.
I'll have to go back and see if I can find the post again but I saw something over at Paradox that mentioned this. IIRC all decreases in resources happen early in the turn and the increases come later on.
Quote from: Tamas on June 11, 2011, 01:38:44 PM
Crisises over too minimal colonial penetrations (like Samoa for USA and Prussia at start), and factory closure messages not specifying reason are two things you can certainly look out for in the next patch, but don't quote me. :ph34r:
The devs have pretty much confirmed the second.
Quote from: sbr on June 11, 2011, 05:21:40 PM
Quote from: Tamas on June 11, 2011, 01:38:44 PM
Crisises over too minimal colonial penetrations (like Samoa for USA and Prussia at start), and factory closure messages not specifying reason are two things you can certainly look out for in the next patch, but don't quote me. :ph34r:
The devs have pretty much confirmed the second.
Why would the devs add more crises over minimal colonial penetrations and make factory closures more opaque?
Quote from: Habbaku on June 11, 2011, 05:26:47 PM
Quote from: sbr on June 11, 2011, 05:21:40 PM
Quote from: Tamas on June 11, 2011, 01:38:44 PM
Crisises over too minimal colonial penetrations (like Samoa for USA and Prussia at start), and factory closure messages not specifying reason are two things you can certainly look out for in the next patch, but don't quote me. :ph34r:
The devs have pretty much confirmed the second.
Why would the devs add more crises over minimal colonial penetrations and make factory closures more opaque?
<_<
The whole idea of Prussia and the US being involved in a crisis over Samoa in 1850 is absurd, of course. Not sure what anyone was thinking (if, indeed, they were thinking at all) when this was proposed.
The crisis of 1887-1889 involved conditions that simply could not apply in 1850. Germany didn't even exist in 1850, and the idea that Americans would give a shit about the islands in 1850 is absurd.
That isn't the key issue for me, though. The key issue is that the diplomatic options are so opaque that the player cannot make sensible decisions - let alone fun ones.
The AI ally just moving its forces all over my territory has gotten silly.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FYgCQh.jpg&hash=86512c20e591bbd4351f3fffcbc3452d30457a41)
150,000 Prussians show up uninvited to the Balkan coast. Sleepy Radetzky is sleepy in Venice.
Are they in war with somebody? :huh:
I think they're just on holiday.
Quote from: Tamas on June 12, 2011, 02:39:57 AM
Are they in war with somebody? :huh:
None that I can see. Only thing Prussia has been doing is forging Caucus Belli against its neighbors and doing a train tour on my territory.
I'm surprised the Russians haven't shown up since I have a defensive treaty with them too.
Party at Austria's house! Woooo! :cheers:
Tried the demo; seems unnecessarily, obnoxiously complex.
I am provisionally raising my rating from 'I don't know about this' to 'Not bad'.
I've never played these AGEOD games before, but I'm starting to get interested here. Is this one a good one to start off with?
Quote from: Neil on June 12, 2011, 10:12:40 PM
I've never played these AGEOD games before, but I'm starting to get interested here. Is this one a good one to start off with?
No, most of all because its very unique. Warfare model is the same but here warfare is not the main thing, unlike in all the other ones.
Quote from: grumbler on June 11, 2011, 05:41:31 PM
The whole idea of Prussia and the US being involved in a crisis over Samoa in 1850 is absurd, of course. Not sure what anyone was thinking (if, indeed, they were thinking at all) when this was proposed.
The crisis of 1887-1889 involved conditions that simply could not apply in 1850. Germany didn't even exist in 1850, and the idea that Americans would give a shit about the islands in 1850 is absurd.
That isn't the key issue for me, though. The key issue is that the diplomatic options are so opaque that the player cannot make sensible decisions - let alone fun ones.
+1.
The crisis mechanic is terrific in theory but the implementation is very confusing and the manual does not help. (the manual generally has serious deficiencies) Also crises arise over inappropriate things. There should be a higher threshhold in terms of colonial penetration before one can be triggered.
The colonization mini-game also seems interesting in theory but with all the different options it isn't clear what I should be doing or which provinces I should be doing it in. Maybe experience will make it more clear but it does seem that 30 different potential actions is a bit overkill.
Fun factor is higher than V2. Stability OTOH is lower- had two CTDs already as opposed to zero for V2 despite all the other problems with it.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 13, 2011, 09:42:25 AM
Stability OTOH is lower- had two CTDs already as opposed to zero for V2 despite all the other problems with it.
Don't alt-tab away from the game while it processes turns - there is a goood chance it won't come back.
Also, the game manuals and tutorials all say that the game automatically saves the last X turns (they disagree on how many) but this is not true on my installation (nor can i manually save in different slots, as the game will only save in the slot I chose at the start). Did the developers abandon the automatic save feature or is it just not yet in place (if it isn't enabled in installs other than mine)?
Quote150,000 Prussians show up uninvited to the Balkan coast.
Tell me about it.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tportal.hr%2FResourceManager%2FGetImage.aspx%3FimgId%3D40095%26amp%3BfmtId%3D20&hash=8e4effa41fa63412de7038bc19260649bc5cc757)
Will be tempted to buy it - when the 1.02 patch becomes available in eight months time, if AGEOD's current state of the beta patches for RoP (1.03) and AACW is a good indication.
Quote from: grumbler on June 13, 2011, 12:42:40 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 13, 2011, 09:42:25 AM
Stability OTOH is lower- had two CTDs already as opposed to zero for V2 despite all the other problems with it.
Don't alt-tab away from the game while it processes turns - there is a goood chance it won't come back.
Also, the game manuals and tutorials all say that the game automatically saves the last X turns (they disagree on how many) but this is not true on my installation (nor can i manually save in different slots, as the game will only save in the slot I chose at the start). Did the developers abandon the automatic save feature or is it just not yet in place (if it isn't enabled in installs other than mine)?
The auto-save feature is in place. *your PoN directory*\VGN\Saves\yoursavegame. Inside that directory will be a crapload of previous saves of that game.
alt-tabbing works but in time will crash the game indeed. Like, after an hour
Quote from: Neil on June 12, 2011, 10:12:40 PM
I've never played these AGEOD games before, but I'm starting to get interested here. Is this one a good one to start off with?
I think it's much more complex than any previous game, which were basically all about warfare. But imho it's superior to Victoria 2 and it works more or less as intended right after release, with minor quirks.
I didn't try naval warfare yet.
Wait to get this after the patch?
Quote from: Warspite on June 13, 2011, 12:58:52 PM
Quote150,000 Prussians show up uninvited to the Balkan coast.
Tell me about it.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tportal.hr%2FResourceManager%2FGetImage.aspx%3FimgId%3D40095%26amp%3BfmtId%3D20&hash=8e4effa41fa63412de7038bc19260649bc5cc757)
ewww. So pale.
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 13, 2011, 02:55:16 PM
Wait to get this after the patch?
It won't be cheaper after the patch, nor will you be younger, smarter, or better looking! :D
So, wait if you have other stuff you'd rather play, or get it now and suffer through some glitches (none of them game-stopping, insofar as I know) while learning the system, and then playing after the patch as well as before it.
I don't think you need to wait for the patch to see if the game is worth spending $20/20 euros on. As it stands, it's a better deal than 90% of the games you'll buy this year.
Thanks, downloading
I'm rather enjoying it now. Even though half the time I just read the messages then press end turn.
You bastards - I have no shortage of games to play, but I just bought and installed this. :mad:
Quote from: Barrister on June 13, 2011, 10:54:39 PM
You bastards - I have no shortage of games to play, but I just bought and installed this. :mad:
:nelson:
I bought it several days ago and have only been able to boot it up once due to other commitments. :blush:
A Beta of the 1.2 patch is out now.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?542000-PON-Public-Beta-Patch-1.02
FIXES AND NOVELTIES
FIXED and major: Memory leak removed!
new: You can now cancel Buy orders from the B interface.
fixed: Display bug that masked some structures.
new: Prices recover better and more logically
new: wastage of resource reduced in effect
new: naval resupply algorithm revised entirely, plus message giving details on it.
new: national regions now benefit from a 'minimum development level', if under 10%, you get +1% every 3 months.
new: tribal get replacements for free, slowly.
new: commerce ships in MTBs get back some cohesion over time
fixed: Depot extension and coaling upgrades problem.
new: Initiator of a colonial crisis can lose his CP in the contested colony.
new: minor can be the target of crisis.
fixed: Replacement leaders now appear (note there is perhaps a bug on duplicating leaders though)
fixed: structures in construction can not be activated with the 'activate all' button
fixed: a problem with supply rights that gave the benefit of a defensive treaty.
fixed: Inflation works reliably.
fixed: Map loading improved behavior should now work even if the checkbox is not on (hopefully!)
fixed: Can now use gunboat diplomacy
fixed: DOWing a country now abort all treaties
new: National morale limited to 250. More rubberband mechanisms around morale.
new: if you lack a specific resource for an industry, the message tells you which one.
fixed: you'll get every 3 months a message about your progress on the historical missions.
new: AI time usage in case of war reduced by 10% (not to 10% )
new: Hosting time reduced between 10 and 15%, depending of the turn.
new: the harbors close to your capital can always send sea supply to harbors close to any MTB where you have ships. (Basically if you have a ship as GBR in Southern Africa Trade box, then the harbors near London can send supply to the harbors in South Africa).
new: Can't play prospectors in region where there is no hidden resources.
new: You don't prevent merchant ships to commerce even if you have combat ships in their MTB.
new: When you form up a colony, relationships with the tribal will be at least 0.
new: The resources icons on map now show the number of resources in their tooltip.
new: Before building a structure, the tooltip tells you about the theoretical input and output.
new: Unit building panel code optimized, should not slow down the game anymore.
changed: Crisis about a colony asks for an average 15 CP, not 5.
changes and fixes focused on data:
* Fixed some budget and costs of the EIC army: GBR now receives 250£ every 6 months as 'contribution' to finance the Army in India (till 1860)
* fixed some upgrade costs on units - Also added missing pictures for some units
* Fixed EvalColStatusArea script error
* Fixed natural disasters events (wrong religion alias caused crash)
*Models DB fixes (costs, tech upgrades, new pictures, new values for some elements)
* Fixed a script error that prevented the Missions annual checks to be effected and displayed.
* In addition FP of economic structures is adjusted for some missions (e.g. more cereal farms for Russia)
* New 1850 GC OOB: lots of African and Asian nations forces added on map (still WIP if volunteers want to bring corrections)
* Changed Cotton resources on map outside USA: much lower until the ACW occurs, then Cotton 'spreads' to Egypt, India and Southern Brazil in greater quantities
* Diplomatic parameters for AI added (thanks to Ehrenbourg tremendous work!)
* New events for SPA, POR, BEL and TUR added
* More Colonial and Balkan crisis events
* Allowed German unification by peaceful means to occur earlier
* Fixed wrong states borders in the USA (thanks to Aragos)
* Cherokee are friendly to USA, other Indian tribes start at peace
* Fix of abilities (CinC appliance)
* Oil, gold, gems and rubber resources fix (add population during rushes)
* Some 1850 setup fix in regions (control, trade, resources)
Quoteixed: Replacement leaders now appear (note there is perhaps a bug on duplicating leaders though)
I was wondering if there was a problem there. lolz
Quote* Cherokee are friendly to USA, other Indian tribes start at peace
lolz
Quote from: Habbaku on June 13, 2011, 11:28:10 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 13, 2011, 10:54:39 PM
You bastards - I have no shortage of games to play, but I just bought and installed this. :mad:
:nelson:
I bought it several days ago and have only been able to boot it up once due to other commitments. :blush:
And I was reminded why I shouldn't buy enw games. BY the time I sat down at the computer with everythign installed it was after 10. I load up PoN, take a look at the zillion little buttons on the screen that I have no idea what to do with, take a look at an online tutorial that confuses me, realize I only have an hour to play anyways, so I quit and play an enjoyable hour of EU3 because at least I can jump right into the action.
QuoteIt is necessary you restart a new game, discarding older saves. While you install this fix, don't hesitate to delete entirely the Saves folder (you can do that more slowly in game also). We will do our best to stay save-compatible from now on, rest assured.
lol, I should have read the entire post.
Quote from: Habbaku on June 13, 2011, 11:28:10 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 13, 2011, 10:54:39 PM
You bastards - I have no shortage of games to play, but I just bought and installed this. :mad:
:nelson:
I bought it several days ago and have only been able to boot it up once due to other commitments. :blush:
I got WitE at the same time, tough decision which one to play. :cry:
Wite seems easier to grasp, but is much more time consuming.
So, what's the take on the new Beta patch?
More enjoyable, or more meh?
I've played a few turns with it so far. I haven't gone far enough to say much but I do like some of the additions, specifically:
new: You can now cancel Buy orders from the B interface.
fixed: Replacement leaders now appear (note there is perhaps a bug on duplicating leaders though)
new: if you lack a specific resource for an industry, the message tells you which one.
fixed: you'll get every 3 months a message about your progress on the historical missions.
new: The resources icons on map now show the number of resources in their tooltip.
new: Before building a structure, the tooltip tells you about the theoretical input and output.
I'll give it a whirl tonight. Sorta bummed I have to give up the Austria game. The situation in Italy was starting to get good.
BY the way, can you really only play as one of the eight listed countries? IS there no way to play as a minor?
Quote from: Barrister on June 14, 2011, 02:38:08 PM
BY the way, can you really only play as one of the eight listed countries? IS there no way to play as a minor?
AFAIK you can use the console to play a second rate power, but they don't have much Events as of now.
There's a project on the AGEOD forum to work out Events for some of them, and AGEOD has started to include some for more important 2nd rate power, like Belgium and Spain.
Sweden receives 5 Infantry Corps
Sweden receives 500 steel and 500 goods
Swedish meatball season. All depots refill
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 14, 2011, 02:47:18 PM
Sweden receives 5 Infantry Corps
Sweden receives 500 steel and 500 goods
Swedish meatball season. All depots refill
Sweden loses a million Farmers to eat said meatballs.
USA wins a million Farmers in Midwest, with culture changed to Yankee.
Quote from: Barrister on June 14, 2011, 02:38:08 PM
BY the way, can you really only play as one of the eight listed countries? IS there no way to play as a minor?
Playing as Canada would be pretty boring.
Britain wants you to do x. Do you say yes or hell yes.
Skipping Belgium is rather disappointing, though. They might not have been strong militarily, but their industrial boom and Leopold II's singlemindedness in putting out a colonial Empire put them on the map.
It would have been a great Power for players who want to be play an industrial powerhouse with some colonial ambitions, but without too much military involved.
According to PhilThib: (http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=21497)
QuoteI have already made events for HOL, BEL, TUR, SPA and POR...some are not yet active in the game because the nations are not playable, but they do have effects. The Belgian and Turkish events are fully operational (in 1.01C beta patch version)
Restarted my Austria game. Spent the greater part of the first year getting the economy in order. AUSTRIA NEEDS MECHANICAL PARTS BADLY.
And Iron. And Coal. And Cotton/Wool.
Meanwhile, Prussia and Wuttumberg had a crisis over the North Pole(!). The supply of elves may fall into Prussian hands.
But at least I got 3 new generals to play with.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FfVflD.jpg&hash=9b6ca9ceecaf07fcbbb70eb93a9916b660180f6f)
The North Pole crisis comes up a lot now, I just had one between S-P and Parma.
Damn elves.
Yeah the north pole thing looks like a new bug introduced with the public beta patch :(
I have found the new patch to be a considerably different game in my re-try at the US. One of the things implemented was inflation (the game used to give notices about it, but not implement them).
I also can alt-tab to the web page without crashing the game.
The game desperately needs a wiki, though.
Quote from: Barrister on June 14, 2011, 10:01:52 AM
And I was reminded why I shouldn't buy enw games. BY the time I sat down at the computer with everythign installed it was after 10. I load up PoN, take a look at the zillion little buttons on the screen that I have no idea what to do with, take a look at an online tutorial that confuses me, realize I only have an hour to play anyways, so I quit and play an enjoyable hour of EU3 because at least I can jump right into the action.
This was my experience with AGEOD games. The WWI one barely ran, and the Civil War had very poor documentation and tutorials. Also I kept fighting major battles in Upstate New York.
The the end of every turn there are dozens of messages about incoming and outcoming private capital and state funds. Is there a ledger or summary screen that presents this information in a single chart? haven't found one yet.
Quote from: Tamas on June 15, 2011, 01:41:32 AM
Yeah the north pole thing looks like a new bug introduced with the public beta patch :(
They just replaced Samoa with North Pole instead of ramping up involvement needed to fire crisis. :wacko: How hard it might be to implement? :rolleyes:
Colonialism seems speeded up a bit. Before, I was having to work to get 1-3% penetration. Now, 5-10% ain't much work.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 15, 2011, 11:29:20 AM
The the end of every turn there are dozens of messages about incoming and outcoming private capital and state funds. Is there a ledger or summary screen that presents this information in a single chart? haven't found one yet.
Nothing great at this point. The best bet is the tooltips on the F4 screen, hopefully they will do something better at some point.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 15, 2011, 11:29:20 AM
The the end of every turn there are dozens of messages about incoming and outcoming private capital and state funds. Is there a ledger or summary screen that presents this information in a single chart? haven't found one yet.
That's all presented, good-by-good, in the F4 economics screen. The game needs a trade screen, I agree, because doing it nation by nation and trade region by trade region is much more work than it should be.
It isn't at all clear to me whether I should be trading for luxury goods to sell into my home market or not. It seems to me that I am getting the same price I am paying, and I tax the exchange, so it seems good, but the more of this I do, the less capital I seem to have.
Quote from: szmik on June 15, 2011, 03:33:38 PM
Quote from: Tamas on June 15, 2011, 01:41:32 AM
Yeah the north pole thing looks like a new bug introduced with the public beta patch :(
They just replaced Samoa with North Pole instead of ramping up involvement needed to fire crisis. :wacko: How hard it might be to implement? :rolleyes:
Dude, that has been tweaked. No crisis until at least 15% penetrations or somesuch. The North Pole thing is a bug :P
Quote from: grumbler on June 16, 2011, 08:04:29 AM
That's all presented, good-by-good, in the F4 economics screen. The game needs a trade screen, I agree, because doing it nation by nation and trade region by trade region is much more work than it should be.
I was looking for more like a single summary presenting all the private capital inflow and expenditures in line items, and same for state funds. rather than have to scroll through all the messages which are not always in order.
QuoteIt isn't at all clear to me whether I should be trading for luxury goods to sell into my home market or not. It seems to me that I am getting the same price I am paying, and I tax the exchange, so it seems good, but the more of this I do, the less capital I seem to have.
If you get the same price domestically you paid for the import, then the net effect on private capital should be zero (capitalist pay for the imports but then get the money back in sales to domestic consumers). But to the extent the import is taxed via tariffs, it would effectively convert some private capital into state funds. I think. :unsure:
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 16, 2011, 01:52:35 PM
I was looking for more like a single summary presenting all the private capital inflow and expenditures in line items, and same for state funds. rather than have to scroll through all the messages which are not always in order.
I agree this is a gotta-have in order to figure out what is going on, because the F4 summary just gives estimates of what should happen, and its predictions are always wrong - but the reasons for them being wrong are unclear. I always lose capital in the last few turns, when my setup and the F4 summary inictae I should be gaining it, by a lot.
QuoteIf you get the same price domestically you paid for the import, then the net effect on private capital should be zero (capitalist pay for the imports but then get the money back in sales to domestic consumers). But to the extent the import is taxed via tariffs, it would effectively convert some private capital into state funds. I think. :unsure:
Yes - it is unclear whether what they call a tariff is really a tariff, or whether it is corporate tax. The tooltip says that it is the same as the corporate tax, but on the value of imports rather than total consumption, and the latter tax is paid by the buyer of goods on the home market, not the seller (I think - the game isn't clear on this, but the general populace is unhappy about corporate taxes, not the wealthy).
In any case, I am running about $150 capital less each turn than I should be according to the projections, and can't figure out why. If I bought everything and sold nothing on the international market, that still wouldn't make the delta, I don't think. I think it must be taxation, but I'd like to know.
I'd also like to know why the world market seems so wonky. Last turn, demand for manufactured goods worldwide was at 31, with 13 being offered. I offered 18 MG from the US, and sold one... the demand remained the same, with more MG demanded than available for sale even including the ones I put up for sale and no one bought, and the price dropped 20% (from $15 to $13). :huh:
Yeah, we need that actual trade ledger. Trade is way too much of a black box at the moment (though goods not involving the player's country may be working - I have seen tea prices rise with a tea shortage, and then drop with a loss of demand).
Seems the new patch is up in the Tech Forum.
Just seen the Prussians move 600,000+ men and 800 cannons through my territory. To crush mighty Württemberg.
lolz.
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 17, 2011, 10:34:13 AM
Just seen the Prussians move 600,000+ men and 800 cannons through my territory. To crush mighty Württemberg.
lolz.
Serves them right for challenging Prussia's god-given claim to the North Pole! :mad:
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on June 17, 2011, 10:53:35 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 17, 2011, 10:34:13 AM
Just seen the Prussians move 600,000+ men and 800 cannons through my territory. To crush mighty Württemberg.
lolz.
Serves them right for challenging Prussia's god-given claim to the North Pole! :mad:
:lol:
It wasn't even a crisis. It was a forged caucus belli and bam! next turn, war. Then there was a string of Prussian forces all along the line where they was marching to get to them. I hope they enjoyed Innsbruck in winter.
Something is seriously broken in the world trading system and national AIs; stell, in my current game, is down to $7 a unit on the world market, while it costs $12.1 to make. World supply of steel on the market is 117, while demand is only 45 (and 40 of that is my own demand - the US). If the AI is at all rational, it wouldn't be making steel to export at such a huge loss. The cost of the minerals to make the steel is higher than the value of the resulting steel output, all by itself.
Minerals seem to be in short supply at game start. Problem may be shortage of minerals and AI not putting enough emphasis on mining them, thus driving up the production cost.
It does make a certain amount of sense that steel is oversupplied b/c it is desirable from the POV of each country to produce a surplus for industrialization.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 17, 2011, 01:03:45 PM
Minerals seem to be in short supply at game start. Problem may be shortage of minerals and AI not putting enough emphasis on mining them, thus driving up the production cost.
It does make a certain amount of sense that steel is oversupplied b/c it is desirable from the POV of each country to produce a surplus for industrialization.
If minerals were not needed at all in manufacturing steel, it would still cost twice as much to make the steel as steel is getting on the world market. Countries should stop making steel and buy it on the market under those conditions (certainly i am), and this would have the effect of driving up the price of steel and driving down the cost of making it. Alternatively, countries should simply stockpile the steel they make. The current system, where the player-country sells the raw materials for a steel plant for $102 (demand is high for all of those products bar the $12 worth of coal) and then buys the steel he would otherwise have made for $42 (and doesn't have to pay the $13 to his steel workers in that plant) is simply wrong. And the player can't just ignore the quirk because the artificially high prices for the raw materials means the player cannot affordably make steel himself.
The model just needs tweaking.
The other thing I find ironic is that opium is a luxury item, and one of the few available to the world early on, so I am buying all the world's opium (suck on that, China!) in order to keep my millionaires happy! :lol: Cokehead fratboys FTW!
I think they made the raw materials tight early on to encourage colonization. But I agree that is just not right.
Surrendered and bought the damn beast. :blush:
"West Point closed due to a lack of resources".
:sleep:
Pacifism won.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 17, 2011, 04:56:36 PM
I think they made the raw materials tight early on to encourage colonization. But I agree that is just not right.
Uhm, actually, raw materials are, if anything, at abundance for most great powers. It is something we have been trying to properly adjust with the betas. You see, sure, you dont have that much coal mines right at the start with France, but presently the possibility to build on the rest of your reserves is mostly there so in a short time you won't need to import German coal. The agricultural situation is similar. It is, in my opinion, a bit too easy to keep your populace content with what you can produce on your own soil. But then again, it should not be that hard either, not in the 1850s at least. A tricky thing to balance, but at least in PoN's case "it could be better" and not "its completely fucked up" as with Vicky 2.
Quote from: Tamas on June 18, 2011, 07:34:22 AM
Uhm, actually, raw materials are, if anything, at abundance for most great powers.
That's not the way it has worked out in any of the games I have played so far. Both minerals and iron ore quickly rise in price to $7 or $8, and wine goes to $12 or $13. Which is fine with me. What is not so fine is that steel drops to $7 or $8.
As you note, though, these seem to be needed tweaks, as opposed to game-breaking items, and my examples are from early in the game. What the game needs is someone to tell the developers about something called "the demand curve." That would take care of the pricing issues.
The game does make you choose between developing resources so as to not need to rely on uncertain foreign supply, or developing factories to make the money. Interesting decisions are always good. Adam Smith would certainly disagree with the economic model, but it is fun and, with the addition of a screen telling you what the actual economic outcomes were in the previous turn and a trade screen that didn't require the player to click all over the map to engage in trade, would be even better.
Quote from: Norgy on June 18, 2011, 04:09:36 AM
"West Point closed due to a lack of resources".
:sleep:
Pacifism won.
Did you patch? That hasn't happened to me since I patched.
Quote from: Norgy on June 18, 2011, 04:09:36 AM
"West Point closed due to a lack of resources".
:sleep:
Pacifism won.
They should hold a bake sale. -_-
Since I bought the thing on Steam, I suppose I haven't patched. Should've gone for the Paradox Web Shop or Gamersgate.
Steam patches the applications itself, but the patch was beta until yesterday, right?
Quote from: Norgy on June 18, 2011, 01:36:29 PM
Since I bought the thing on Steam, I suppose I haven't patched. Should've gone for the Paradox Web Shop or Gamersgate.
Steam patches the applications itself, but the patch was beta until yesterday, right?
To do the beta patch, you have to delete 4 folders them unzip the stuff into its folder. I don't have a link to the paradox forum right now. I don't have links to
anything right now.
:rolleyes:
afaik, you are better off making a separate copy of the game, then patching that, because Steam will eventually flip over the files not being Kosher, and would restore the official version.
What the fuck is the roll eyes for, mongoloid?
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 18, 2011, 01:57:42 PM
What the fuck is the roll eyes for, mongoloid?
:shrug: He flipflops between being a major dick and a major help in this thread.
He probably is rolling his eyes because you were 'tard enough to do what the game developers told you to do. If you had eaten enough beets (slaughtered with a knife more than 25.5 cm long, mind) you'd have known better.
Do turns still take 2 minutes or so complete? I found AGEOD products to be fairly unfriendly to my computer. The Civil War one worked okay (at least technically), but the WWI game worked like shit. I didn't run at all until I adjusted some setting on Vista. Even having installed on my hard-drive caused problems. The computer would freeze up if the game was installed and User Account Control was active. Even when I wasn't trying to activate it. I still don't understand why that happened.
Turns take 25 seconds or so on my computer. It's no hassle at all.
That's not the issue for me. My issue with the game as of now is twofold; one, I feel I am constantly without a good overview and make decisions on vague information and some notion of "oooh, that sounds nice" (which is realistic, I suppose) and two, despite the familiarity, I find the GUI and navigation a bit clunky.
It's no major criticism, but the cause-effect relationship in this game is by no means very obvious. Mind you, I'm still learning, so maybe after 10-20 hours, I'll feel a bit more confident.
Well, now instead of small Prussian armies setting up camp in Austria, now I've got this GINORMOUS stack with 600 cannons just scooting around. Even worse, Russians are leaking over the border. I've got a cossack problem in Austrian Poland.
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 18, 2011, 01:57:42 PM
What the fuck is the roll eyes for, mongoloid?
hold on a sec, were you actually serious with that bad-englished "delete 4 folders" stuff?
Quote from: Norgy on June 18, 2011, 03:06:43 PM
Turns take 25 seconds or so on my computer. It's no hassle at all.
That's not the issue for me. My issue with the game as of now is twofold; one, I feel I am constantly without a good overview and make decisions on vague information and some notion of "oooh, that sounds nice" (which is realistic, I suppose) and two, despite the familiarity, I find the GUI and navigation a bit clunky.
It's no major criticism, but the cause-effect relationship in this game is by no means very obvious. Mind you, I'm still learning, so maybe after 10-20 hours, I'll feel a bit more confident.
25 seconds? With full AI time? You are a God among men.
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 18, 2011, 03:31:52 PM
Well, now instead of small Prussian armies setting up camp in Austria, now I've got this GINORMOUS stack with 600 cannons just scooting around. Even worse, Russians are leaking over the border. I've got a cossack problem in Austrian Poland.
You should break your defensive alliance with one of them. Or with both if you want to be fair.
Quote from: Tamas on June 18, 2011, 03:51:18 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 18, 2011, 01:57:42 PM
What the fuck is the roll eyes for, mongoloid?
hold on a sec, were you actually serious with that bad-englished "delete 4 folders" stuff?
Hey, that was the instruction over at paradox for the steam version. Delete 4 folders I can't remember the names of and unzip the patch into game folder.
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 18, 2011, 03:55:02 PM
Quote from: Tamas on June 18, 2011, 03:51:18 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 18, 2011, 01:57:42 PM
What the fuck is the roll eyes for, mongoloid?
hold on a sec, were you actually serious with that bad-englished "delete 4 folders" stuff?
Hey, that was the instruction over at paradox for the steam version. Delete 4 folders I can't remember the names of and unzip the patch into game folder.
oh :Embarrass:
Quote from: Tamas on June 18, 2011, 04:00:16 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 18, 2011, 03:55:02 PM
Quote from: Tamas on June 18, 2011, 03:51:18 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on June 18, 2011, 01:57:42 PM
What the fuck is the roll eyes for, mongoloid?
hold on a sec, were you actually serious with that bad-englished "delete 4 folders" stuff?
Hey, that was the instruction over at paradox for the steam version. Delete 4 folders I can't remember the names of and unzip the patch into game folder.
oh :Embarrass:
I can't stay mad at my favorite beet merchant. :hug:
I looked up my notes and it was delete the Alias, events, FrontEnd and GameData folders with the first beta patch they cranked out.
Your notes? You keep fucking notes?
Quote from: The Brain on June 18, 2011, 04:04:25 PM
Your notes? You keep fucking notes?
It is to remember who has been naughty and who has been nice.
Quote from: Tamas on June 18, 2011, 03:51:18 PM
... that bad-englished "delete 4 folders" stuff?
:lol: Pot, meet kettle.
Quote from: Tamas on June 18, 2011, 01:55:15 PM
:rolleyes:
afaik, you are better off making a separate copy of the game, then patching that, because Steam will eventually flip over the files not being Kosher, and would restore the official version.
Keep in mind there are cattle in the game
So any dutch files will not be kosher in any event.
Quote from: Tamas on June 18, 2011, 03:52:14 PM
25 seconds? With full AI time? You are a God among men.
The processor power of the i7 is at least. :)
:hmm:
I somehow didn't notice this thread earlier, but have been missing playing grand strategy PC games lately. :ph34r:
What's the best way to buy this? Steam, Impulse, GamersGate, or other?
Quote from: Caliga on June 19, 2011, 09:45:19 AM
:hmm:
I somehow didn't notice this thread earlier, but have been missing playing grand strategy PC games lately. :ph34r:
What's the best way to buy this? Steam, Impulse, GamersGate, or other?
I wouldn't use Steam; AGEOD releases Beta patches like Paradox, and while not impossible they are a bit of a pain in the ass to deal with when using Steam.
I used GG mostly because I am more familiar with it but Impulse should be fine too.
Nope, don't use Steam.
Quote from: Drakken on June 16, 2011, 11:24:27 PM
Seems the new patch is up in the Tech Forum.
Eh...Something appears to be hosed on the forum. It says there are 56 thread in the tech forum, but when you go in, there are zero.
Edit: Do I need to register my game to see it? gay
Yep.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 19, 2011, 03:16:53 PM
Quote from: Drakken on June 16, 2011, 11:24:27 PM
Seems the new patch is up in the Tech Forum.
Eh...Something appears to be hosed on the forum. It says there are 56 thread in the tech forum, but when you go in, there are zero.
Edit: Do I need to register my game to see it? gay
Yeah, that whole "find the code and then type it in without any errors so that you can see shit that every game company whose head wasn't in their asses lets you freely access because it is good for sales as well as support" was one of the real downsides to Paradox buying AGEOD; the only forums supporting AGEOD games now are forums you cannot see without going through more trouble than they are worth.
It's kinda too bad, too. I was going to buy the Napoleonic game before I realized that I couldn't get any support without hassles. Well, lotsa game companies in the sea, so the fact that there is a second company I won't buy from isn't that big a deal.
I very much doubt Paradox gives a rat's ass about the Napoleonic game. Pocus recently made a new patch for it, and it is available without any fuss from the original AGEOD forum.
Quote from: Tamas on June 20, 2011, 12:31:37 AM
I very much doubt Paradox gives a rat's ass about the Napoleonic game. Pocus recently made a new patch for it, and it is available without any fuss from the original AGEOD forum.
Thanks for that info. :)
Quote from: grumbler on June 19, 2011, 11:00:10 PM
Yeah, that whole "find the code and then type it in without any errors so that you can see shit that every game company whose head wasn't in their asses lets you freely access because it is good for sales as well as support" was one of the real downsides to Paradox buying AGEOD; the only forums supporting AGEOD games now are forums you cannot see without going through more trouble than they are worth.
It's kinda too bad, too. I was going to buy the Napoleonic game before I realized that I couldn't get any support without hassles. Well, lotsa game companies in the sea, so the fact that there is a second company I won't buy from isn't that big a deal.
I find the practice rather annoying as well. It is a fairly unique for of anti-piracy. "We will release a game that doesn't work unless you register and download the patch. Sometimes we'll make you pay for the patch as well. Also the patch will likely make something else not work in the game."
You folks may find this interesting:
http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=65261
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FWUfjh.png&hash=96b19fe15e7789d946b40d1ed6ee283df2611345)
:fap:
I'm still going through the tutorials :blush: , but this game seems simpler in some way than AGEOD's Civil War, which I never fully got into. I really like what I've seen so far.
Can't really go more than two turns at a time on my computer with 2G of ram. Unplayable really. On my other one with 8G, it's much better. Though I did get one corrupted save game with that directx burst to main bug on that computer.
I'm liking the game so far, but I will admit the troubleshooting time to playing time ratio is quite bad right now.
I'm done until the next non-beta patch. I've got Russia and Prussia having control of at least two provinces, and Sardinia at 50% in Firuli even though there is an Austrian corps sitting there. All of this happening when I'm at peace.
Quote from: Tamas on June 20, 2011, 12:31:37 AM
I very much doubt Paradox gives a rat's ass about the Napoleonic game. Pocus recently made a new patch for it, and it is available without any fuss from the original AGEOD forum.
I found the right forums, and they have everything I need. No need to go to Paradox's forums at all. :cool:
Quote from: grumbler on June 22, 2011, 08:25:22 AM
Quote from: Tamas on June 20, 2011, 12:31:37 AM
I very much doubt Paradox gives a rat's ass about the Napoleonic game. Pocus recently made a new patch for it, and it is available without any fuss from the original AGEOD forum.
I found the right forums, and they have everything I need. No need to go to Paradox's forums at all. :cool:
:cool:
Glad to be of service.
Too bad I lost my Nappywars installer :( Not sure I could even pirate it to enter my serial then.
I think it is the least popular of the branch, but the reason is a bit puzzling for me, because it does a good job.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 21, 2011, 01:02:25 PM
Can't really go more than two turns at a time on my computer with 2G of ram. Unplayable really. On my other one with 8G, it's much better. Though I did get one corrupted save game with that directx burst to main bug on that computer.
I'm liking the game so far, but I will admit the troubleshooting time to playing time ratio is quite bad right now.
Did you patch up with the unofficial beta? My game plays a lot faster and better after the patch. There is now an installer version of the patch, if the directions were scaring you off.
See 2/3 of the way down the page: http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=21687&page=2
This looks strangely like a rehash of Victoria... Yet Vic 2 came out last year yes?
G.
Quote from: Grallon on June 22, 2011, 03:33:45 PM
This looks strangely like a rehash of Victoria... Yet Vic 2 came out last year yes?
G.
Different design team. AGEOD was working on this before they were bought.
Does AGEOD have any new projects on the horizon?
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 23, 2011, 09:25:48 AM
Does AGEOD have any new projects on the horizon?
They sent me an email stating if I post on their forums again they will throw eggs at my house. So there's that.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 23, 2011, 02:21:40 PM
They sent me an email stating if I post on their forums again they will throw eggs at my house. So there's that.
Hmm. Throwing Eggs at Raz's House. Sounds like an iOS game.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 23, 2011, 09:25:48 AM
Does AGEOD have any new projects on the horizon?
Nothing announced, AFAIK. There is a lot of talk of a ACW 2 game but I don't think that is by anyone more than fans.
I don't have any background info, but I am still very suspicious regarding the ultimate motive of the Paradox buyout of AGEOD.
I hope to one day finish the tutorials in PoN. :blush:
Quote from: Caliga on June 24, 2011, 07:24:43 AM
I hope to one day finish the tutorials in PoN. :blush:
They aren't very useful. I'd play the game a bit and then look at some AARs to see what you did wrong. It took me three tries before I got my nation on a sound footing, but virtually none of what I needed to know I learned from the tutorials.
Oh ok, thanks for the tip grumbles. I've had very little time for the game since d/ling it, but I will probably have some this weekend.
I have only the slightest idea of what Im supposed to be doing. Numbers change - up or down - with every turn. At least the satisfaction is at 100% and the fame? is now at 722 after a dozen turns. I'm playing Japan btw. Trying to buy stuff on the global market is... counter-intuitive to say the least. I ordered a merchant fleet built but it's not finished yet. So far the only tangible effects I've seen are selecting state orders/bans on certain commodities like coal and steel.
I'm confused. :mellow:
G.
For Cal- based on very limited experience to date:
The tutorial has some value getting you used to using the interface and locating the various screens, which I found less than intuitive.
One key thing is to learn how to understand and use the F4 display. It is a little unwieldy and complicated but it has almost all the key economic info you need and you do need it. Do not forget the button on the top toggles between agricultural and industrial goods - it does not display both at the same time. The smaller balance "B" display can be useful for getting a quick picture of balances but you need the more detailed F4 data to calibrate things.
Check your factory status each turn - sometimes they shut down for lack of required inputs.
Always keep a decent stock of private capital; otherwise your capitalist raises prices and you get inflation.
Manufactured goods are important - they are needed for almost everything - building structures, building key units, various colonial actions etc. So build out those goods factories when you can (unfortunately, it also costs a bunch of goods to build a goods factory).
But to run the goods factories you also need mech parts, and there is an early game shortage. So who may need to build a mech parts shop early.
Importing consumer goods is not necessarily a bad thing. The imports cost capital but you get a lot back selling it into the domestic market, and it can help keep your people happy.
If you are playing a big country like Russia or the US, or if you are colonizing, make sure you place depots and collection points where you need them before you rush in with lots of troops and structures. reguarly check the supply screen and the trade zone screen for gaps.
Quote from: Grallon on June 24, 2011, 02:01:54 PM
Trying to buy stuff on the global market is... counter-intuitive to say the least.
There are global prices but no global market. You set orders to buy from individual trade zones and you can only buy from zones adjacent to you by land or with a port in a sea zone where you have a merchant fleet.
it is a PITA to calibrate your international trade orders in their interface, but the system is intuitive enough.
It's certainly more interesting than the magical market of Vicky where everything gets everywhere without problems, provided you have the prestige.
The key to trading, IMO, is to have the F4 screen, the B screen, and the "T" trade screen for your capital open at the same time. Move them around so they are all visible at once.
It is essential to have all the required resources for running your structures available at the start of the next turn. You cannot buy/produce a good or capital and use it in the same turn.
Toggle all production on at the start of your analysis, and turn things off manually as necessary. It is easier that way than trying to find what is shut down and manually start it.
I look at the B screen to see where I am going to be losing goods or capital, and decide if that is acceptable (stocks over 200 start to rot, so you want to avoid producing anything that will take stocks over 200 - usually better to produce and sell than not produce, but you cannot guarantee sales). It sometimes pays not to produce, as prices can get out of whack and it becomes cheaper to buy a good and sell the raw materials you would otherwise use than it is to make the good.
The key to selling is to see what the demand is, and try to meet that. The B screen tooltips tell what the demand is for any good that you are buying or selling. Look for goods that you have in surplus of and the market has a shortage of, and change your sell amount on the T screen to match. If supply exceeds demand, consider simply not trying to sell, as the prices will drop if you over-saturate the market. Make sure you change the internal market demand (on the F4 screen) to 80% in that case. Lower internal demand for other products if necessary.
Stop making something if there is no demand (internal or external) and stockpiles get near 200.
The key to making money, IMO, is to satisfy the internal market demand for luxury goods using your own manufacturing. Obviously, luxury good production should be an early priority. The other key is keeping an eye on the resources for which demand is increasing, and have a facility ready to produce those when prices go up - you save yourself having to buy them, and can sell any surplus. This is true for minerals in every game I have played so far.
Don't build extraction facilities to the capacity of an area to provide the resources, if you can avoid it. Unused resources provide a bonus to existing facilities (e.g. 2 iron mines in an area with an iron resource value of 3 produce 6 iron instead of 5 - increasing the number of mines to 3 increases all costs by 50% but only increases total output from 12 to 15). Not many countries have this luxury, of course.
The US is a good country to start with, since you can solve your problems a number of ways, and you get to perform pretty much every action without a lot of negative consequences if you do it wrong or poorly. Piedmont-Sardinia is a more interesting country to play,once you have the basics down. Russia will be a challenge, I think.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 24, 2011, 02:10:25 PM
There are global prices but no global market. You set orders to buy from individual trade zones and you can only buy from zones adjacent to you by land or with a port in a sea zone where you have a merchant fleet.
it is a PITA to calibrate your international trade orders in their interface, but the system is intuitive enough.
I do my buy trades mostly on the B screen. It takes into account where you have fleets, and is easier if less precise.
Quote from: Syt on June 24, 2011, 11:23:25 PM
It's certainly more interesting than the magical market of Vicky where everything gets everywhere without problems, provided you have the prestige.
Yes, Vicky assumes that there are merchants in the world, and that they will hire space on whatever ships are cheapest, as opposed to PoN's idea that all goods bought for Japan have to be carried on Japanese ships (which is particularly ironic given that there
were no Japanese merchant ships in 1850!) The merchant ship thing is weird and counter-intuitive and should be scrapped. Merchant ships make money from what they carry, no matter what the nationality of the goods' owners are.
There is a new beta patch out.
Things were made clearer thanks to Grumbler's instructions. However I'm still losing manufacturing parts - even though I'm telling (or trying to tell) the global market to *buy* 'manufactured goods' - not to sell them.
I do hate these confused games where one thing means another and its opposite depending on which display panel you find yourself looking at.
Oh an pressing "t" - or "T"- or SHIFT "T" - or SHIFTT "t" - or Control "T" - or CTRL "t" - or ALT "T" - or ALT "t" - will bring the trading screen - or not - depending on... I don't know what. I've tried all combinations under various settings - to no avail. An then it will appear... Most aggravating <_<
G.
Quote from: grumbler on June 25, 2011, 09:36:56 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 24, 2011, 11:23:25 PM
It's certainly more interesting than the magical market of Vicky where everything gets everywhere without problems, provided you have the prestige.
Yes, Vicky assumes that there are merchants in the world, and that they will hire space on whatever ships are cheapest, as opposed to PoN's idea that all goods bought for Japan have to be carried on Japanese ships (which is particularly ironic given that there were no Japanese merchant ships in 1850!) The merchant ship thing is weird and counter-intuitive and should be scrapped. Merchant ships make money from what they carry, no matter what the nationality of the goods' owners are.
I said "more interesting", not "more realistic".
You could probably pretend that instead of nation owned merchant marine it represents cargo haulers *hired* by your nation (regardless of flag it sails under), but that'd be a stretch.
Finally got a hold of things on the F4 screen, especially left and right-clicking on the fourth row.
Now Japan's domestic market is secured, even affording to export some goods to the Barbarians through Dutch intermidiaries in Dejima.
Stopped converting crops to Preserved Food because the price being offered was abysmally low (2 pounds a piece, no way!). Instead I sell the food outputs on the domestic market, but keep offering my huge Produced Food stock in case I find a passing buyer. Make slightly more money that way, which for Japan can never come too soon.
As the United States I have so far enjoyed running out of machine parts and attacking the Sioux in Nebraska for no reason. :) The combat system seems much more refined than in AGEOD's Civil War. Not sure what they did exactly but I am enjoying it.
Quote from: Drakken on June 27, 2011, 09:30:00 AM
Finally got a hold of things on the F4 screen, especially left and right-clicking on the fourth row.
Then explain it to me. I've been trying to do purchases with the B screen only so far. I'm pretty sure I did not order the purchase of coal - yet every turn coal was bought from the US and Britain. Nobody is selling machine parts so I can't run my 2 manufacturing goods factories and thus I can't build anything other than logging camps, rice paddies and fisheries. I have a surplus of iron but nobody is buying that either. I sell cotton and rice - but the AI keeps buying those 2.
G.
Quote from: Drakken on June 27, 2011, 09:30:00 AM
Finally got a hold of things on the F4 screen, especially left and right-clicking on the fourth row.
Now Japan's domestic market is secured, even affording to export some goods to the Barbarians through Dutch intermidiaries in Dejima.
Stopped converting crops to Preserved Food because the price being offered was abysmally low (2 pounds a piece, no way!). Instead I sell the food outputs on the domestic market, but keep offering my huge Produced Food stock in case I find a passing buyer. Make slightly more money that way, which for Japan can never come too soon.
I find it wonderfully helpful when playing Japan to send the trade fleet you start with over to Europe. Especially in the very early game--there will be manufactured goods for sale out of North Germany and Holland.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 27, 2011, 12:03:27 PM
I find it wonderfully helpful when playing Japan to send the trade fleet you start with over to Europe. Especially in the very early game--there will be manufactured goods for sale out of North Germany and Holland.
I thought japan was limited to the two adjacent trade naval zones? The one next to China and the East pacific one?
G.
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 27, 2011, 12:03:27 PM
I find it wonderfully helpful when playing Japan to send the trade fleet you start with over to Europe. Especially in the very early game--there will be manufactured goods for sale out of North Germany and Holland.
What trade fleet? The only fleet Japan has from start is a fleet of war junks. :huh:
Besides, Grallon is right - Japan should be limited to Asia until Sakoku is revoked. Otherwise it defeats the purpose of the whole regime, and besides Japanese people leaving the shores without a Red Seal would be condemned to death - them and their whole family left behind. And there's no way the Shogun would grant a Red Seal to sailors going to trade with Westerners.
I just installed patch 1.1g and restarted a new Japan game. I can confirm that the Chesapeake trade zone and the England trade zone are accessible - meaning you can choose to buy there. Coincidentally there are British and American fleets in the sea trade zone Japan does have access to - the Chinese one next door. I'm guessing when this is devoid of either British or American fleets their local trade zones won't be accessible.
Anyhow I put an order for all the manufacturing goods and machine parts available (14/10 respectively). But with my low prestige I'm likely to bit the dust. We shall see.
G.
Quote from: Grallon on June 27, 2011, 03:28:14 PM
I just installed patch 1.1g and restarted a new Japan game. I can confirm that the Chesapeake trade zone and the England trade zone are accessible - meaning you can choose to buy there.
Got told it was a bug, and it lasts only for the first turn. Reported it to AGEOD over the PI forum.
I have no shortage of manufactured goods from domestic production, and only one Japanese industry needs machine parts so it's not very useful to buy them at the start of the game. Just make sure to decrease the % of production of MG allocated to domestic market to 5% and you're good to go.
Well after the 1st turn they have become unavailable. Yet the manufactured goods went from 15 to 36 - and I produce only 1 per turn. No mechanical parts sadly. So I don't know how he did it.
Oh and for once the map, when in geographical mode, is gorgeous! Wasn't made by Paradox and it shows :P
G.
Quote from: Grallon on June 27, 2011, 03:41:49 PM
Well after the 1st turn they have become unavailable. Yet the manufactured goods went from 15 to 36 - and I produce only 1 per turn. No mechanical parts sadly. So I don't know how he did it.
Did you successfully buy MGs from either London or Chesapeake? Did you use the "Subsidize good imports" trade decision?
Quote from: Drakken on June 27, 2011, 03:45:26 PM
Did you successfully buy MGs from either London or Chesapeake? Did you use the "Subsidize good imports" trade decision?
This must be a bug since I did not subsidized until after the 4-5th turn. Yet after the 1st turn was processed I got a report saying my orders for MG in Britain and the US were withdrawn since there was no supplies available.
The private sector seem to be transforming some of the national production into MG - on its own - from .. other sources I guess?
G.
Beats me. You can't convert goods into manufactured goods in the F4 screen. Did you turn off conversions for Supply and/or Ammunition at the upper-right part of the F4 screen? That might be a reason why.
As Japan, I only subsidize when I need Coal, as my first priority is to produce enough Minerals to at least maintain current production. As the Northern provinces are stuck in Winter at least until March, so I cannot build there, I must build it somewhere with an Mineral 1 output. It's the lesser of the two evils.
Wood and Coal come second. I am not afraid to incur a +1% in Inflation if I spend Private Capital too soon, because subsidizing imports lowers Inflation by 1%.
Quote from: grumbler on June 25, 2011, 09:36:56 AM
Merchant ships make money from what they carry, no matter what the nationality of the goods' owners are.
Merchant ships in game perform a couple of different game functions. One is shipping supply to overseas assets. The other is to allow simulation of a guerre de course. The merchant shipping mechanic is an elegant way to do both of those.
In theory you could just use the merchant ships for supply overseas and use e.g. the sum of all port capacities as a hard limit for total import volume. But then only Britain and France would have a strong incentive to build significant quantities of merchant shipping and the game would be further complicated by the addition of another mechanic.
One side effect though is that a close blockade seems to serve only for the purpose of blocking supply or intra-nation transfers of goods from overseas possession and not actually blocking imports into the port. I say "seems" because I haven't experienced a naval war yet in game and while the manual refers to a chapter on "Convoys and Blockades" the chapter doesn't seem to be there.
Quote from: Caliga on June 27, 2011, 09:48:52 AM
As the United States I have so far enjoyed running out of machine parts
You should have sufficient resources to build a machine part shop on the first turn.
Although doing so delays building out mineral or iron mines to facilitate import substitution.
Quote from: grumbler on June 25, 2011, 09:32:57 AM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 24, 2011, 02:10:25 PM
There are global prices but no global market. You set orders to buy from individual trade zones and you can only buy from zones adjacent to you by land or with a port in a sea zone where you have a merchant fleet.
it is a PITA to calibrate your international trade orders in their interface, but the system is intuitive enough.
I do my buy trades mostly on the B screen. It takes into account where you have fleets, and is easier if less precise.
The B screen is set to buy "10" though - and i haven't figured out how to change that.
Also for imports where there is competition I try to target area with good relations or where I have a competitive advantage in merchant shipping points.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 28, 2011, 12:34:18 PM
The B screen is set to buy "10" though - and i haven't figured out how to change that.
Also for imports where there is competition I try to target area with good relations or where I have a competitive advantage in merchant shipping points.
I use the B screen only to see an expected balance sheet in a blink of an eye, by type of goods. F4 for setting allocation for domestic market and T for international trading is good enough for me.
On the T screen, single-clicking increases by 1, SHIFT-clicking does it by 10, and CTRL-clicking switches all your stock.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 28, 2011, 12:27:11 PM
You should have sufficient resources to build a machine part shop on the first turn.
Yeah, after I installed the most recent beta, I started a new campaign and that was literally my first action.
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 28, 2011, 12:34:18 PM
The B screen is set to buy "10" though - and i haven't figured out how to change that.
Also for imports where there is competition I try to target area with good relations or where I have a competitive advantage in merchant shipping points.
I don't think you can change the B screen totals. The game automatically chooses to import from where you have the highest chance of success, as far as I can tell. There certainly will be cases where you want to target imports through the T screen, of course, but for me this is the exception.
Quote from: Grallon on June 25, 2011, 07:44:42 PM
Things were made clearer thanks to Grumbler's instructions. However I'm still losing manufacturing parts - even though I'm telling (or trying to tell) the global market to *buy* 'manufactured goods' - not to sell them.
I do hate these confused games where one thing means another and its opposite depending on which display panel you find yourself looking at.
Oh an pressing "t" - or "T"- or SHIFT "T" - or SHIFTT "t" - or Control "T" - or CTRL "t" - or ALT "T" - or ALT "t" - will bring the trading screen - or not - depending on... I don't know what. I've tried all combinations under various settings - to no avail. An then it will appear... Most aggravating <_<
G.
The most important thing you can do with regard to manufactured goods is click the F4 screen and set your internal market consumption to the lowest setting possible, 5%. This is done by right clicking on the mfg icon on line 4. You save on average 3-4 goods per turn. Managing how many resources go to the internal market is important if your market is buying at less than 100%. Adjusting can make significant amounts of money.
Also, balance of trade is a misnomer in PON. Everything you import, if its not being used in your factories, should be sold to your internal market. Luxury goods, especially. You lose nothing by buying 5 luxuries so long as you sell all 5 to your internal market. In fact, you gain corporate tax, excise tax and maritime taxes by importing and selling internally. You also give funds to the selling country who will in turn build and buy more. The worst thing you can do is stop buying from the WM.
Quote from: 4th Virginia on June 28, 2011, 09:55:09 PM
Quote from: 4th Virginia on June 28, 2011, 09:50:52 PM
Quote from: Grallon on June 25, 2011, 07:44:42 PM
Things were made clearer thanks to Grumbler's instructions. However I'm still losing manufacturing parts - even though I'm telling (or trying to tell) the global market to *buy* 'manufactured goods' - not to sell them.
I do hate these confused games where one thing means another and its opposite depending on which display panel you find yourself looking at.
Oh an pressing "t" - or "T"- or SHIFT "T" - or SHIFTT "t" - or Control "T" - or CTRL "t" - or ALT "T" - or ALT "t" - will bring the trading screen - or not - depending on... I don't know what. I've tried all combinations under various settings - to no avail. An then it will appear... Most aggravating <_<
G.
The most important thing you can do with regard to manufactured goods is click the F4 screen and set your internal market consumption to the lowest setting possible, 5%. This is done by right clicking on the mfg icon on line 4. You save on average 3-4 goods per turn. Managing how many resources go to the internal market is important if your market is buying at less than 100%. Adjusting can make significant amounts of money, especially if you up the supply on more expensive goods and turn it down on the cheaper stuff.
Also, balance of trade is a misnomer in PON. Everything you import, if its not being used in your factories, should be sold to your internal market. Luxury goods, especially. You lose nothing by buying 5 luxuries so long as you sell all 5 to your internal market. In fact, you gain corporate tax, excise tax and maritime taxes by importing and selling internally. You also give funds to the selling country who will in turn build and buy more. The worst thing you can do is stop buying from the WM.
Quote from: 4th Virginia on June 28, 2011, 09:50:52 PM
The most important thing you can do with regard to manufactured goods is click the F4 screen and set your internal market consumption to the lowest setting possible, 5%. This is done by right clicking on the mfg icon on line 4. You save on average 3-4 goods per turn. Managing how many resources go to the internal market is important if your market is buying at less than 100%. Adjusting can make significant amounts of money.
...
Yet whenever I do this I get a msg at the beginning of next turn that 'the private sector hasn't made enough profits so they raised their prices and consequently inflation went up 1%". I'm at 5% now. No idea how to reduce it - although it doesn't seem to have any effect that I can see.
G.
Quote from: Grallon on June 29, 2011, 03:12:18 PM
Yet whenever I do this I get a msg at the beginning of next turn that 'the private sector hasn't made enough profits so they raised their prices and consequently inflation went up 1%". I'm at 5% now. No idea how to reduce it - although it doesn't seem to have any effect that I can see.
G.
Inflation rises the cost in everything.
You spend too much Private Capital, going under the margin needed to maintain your industries/production venues. So industrialists pull the needed money out of their pockets, and cause inflation due to the raise in prices to compensate.
When you spend your Private Capital, keep in mind how much it costs to maintain your industries and never spend below that.
So, when the game gets patched good, are we gonna make a monster Languish MP game?
Sure. Then somewhere around turn 3, Tamas will "forget" to send a file and it'll stall.
The big thing that worries me, though, is that the player playing the UK is gonna run amok and ruin it all because he will be so insanely powerful.
:hmm: Will he be that powerful, though? Seems to me that, especially in a human-player MP game, it'd be easy to counter-balance whatever superpowers pop up.
Quote from: Grallon on June 29, 2011, 03:12:18 PM
Quote from: 4th Virginia on June 28, 2011, 09:50:52 PM
The most important thing you can do with regard to manufactured goods is click the F4 screen and set your internal market consumption to the lowest setting possible, 5%. This is done by right clicking on the mfg icon on line 4. You save on average 3-4 goods per turn. Managing how many resources go to the internal market is important if your market is buying at less than 100%. Adjusting can make significant amounts of money.
...
Yet whenever I do this I get a msg at the beginning of next turn that 'the private sector hasn't made enough profits so they raised their prices and consequently inflation went up 1%". I'm at 5% now. No idea how to reduce it - although it doesn't seem to have any effect that I can see.
G.
Rule of thumb is that you need to keep enough private capital in your reserve to cover your structure costs for the next turn. IIRC, the way private capital is calculated is that reserves at the end of the turn are then deducted by structure costs, then deducted by foreign purchases, then added by foreign sales then added by domestic market sales.
Inflation can be reduced by spending state money on economic decisions like subsidizing coal, steel and manufactured goods. 1% inflation reduction for each of those decisions. They cost 200 state money per time used and give you a few of the subsidized goods.
So sayeth the tits of wisdom.
Quote from: Razgovory on June 30, 2011, 08:54:31 AM
So sayeth the tits of wisdom.
I think that avatar is an excellent choice for Virginia, since she wants to distinguish herself from the first three posters named Virginia. :cheers:
I think we can just call her Virginia, though, since the others don't post anymore.
I am putting the game on the shelf until they patch it up some more. The penalties for success are just too irksome at the moment.
New beta patch is up.
Belgium (:w00t:) and the Ottomantards (<_<) are now playable.
Quote*fixed: Warscore evaluation and cost of treaty proposals
*changed: 'NON' nation is always hostile.
*fixed: AI siege bug
*changed: Colonial Merchant can augments dev level up to 15%.
*fixed: Defensive treaty could be accepted while not being valid in the end.
*fixed: you can't build a depot upgrade over a depot in construction.
*changed: some silly cases of crisis.
*changed: you will get back military control and cities, from non hostile nations, in some cases, in regions you legitimally own.
*fixed: yet another memory leak (a significant one)
*added: AI will now explain why she refuses a treaty proposal.
*changed: Drain lands should now work only in swamps
*changed: AI has more chance to accept peace.
*added: Relations with a tribal will change, depending of your ownership of their capital. If you are in protectorate or better status, they become friendly, otherwise, they become hostile.
* Changed all events with diplomatic item FullWar to War (so peace talks and conditions should be easier for the initial stages). Note that the ACW, the 3rd Carlist War and the Taiping rebellion remain FullWar, i.e. peace is almost impossible except via total victory (or event ending)
* Fixed ACW events (US fleets go to NYC instead of upper Mississippi, fixed too much REB loyalty, especially in Washington)
* Fixed AI reaction in many events (German Unification, Crimean War)
* Added events about natives getting access to more modern weapons later on in game
* Fixed errors in Units & Models
* Added new Leaders portraits (from our Beta team)
* Changed many sprites positions in various regions to improve visibility
* Finally completed Dutch events
* Made TUR and BEL playable in this version (although the game was NOT designed for this initially) - These nations need your feedback to be as interesting as possible for the official patch!
* Added extra events for colonial crisis (Cuba, Philippines, Aceh, Morocco)
*New look for the Tech Tree Navigation interface
*Added new links from the Research Interface to the Tech Tree Navigation
*Solved the problem with Coaling Station Upgrade removing the Port if the CP on the region was not enough
*Solved reported bugs on Rulers (corrected refferences, removed extra spaces that prevented some images to be loaded, etc)
*Added new portraits for German Minors, Spain and China
*Plugged the new placeholder ruler portraits to some factions
*Fixed some Tech Startup problem with some techs that you had ahead of time (you had the second level instead of the prerequisite)
can i be : ottoman empire
Okay, picked this up again after getting quickly tired of The Witcher 2, and have been doing more military and colonial stuff.
The best troop type, bar none, is the Rebel. Rebels have infinite replacements and instantly regain all losses of men and organization at the start of each turn. Rebel units lose every battle, but inflict losses on the level of 1 per three own losses, and they cannot be destroyed. They can retreat into areas occupied by enemy units without apparent penalty. They cannot win a battle but cannot lose a war. The only way to keep them in check is to have several forces approximately twice their size, and alternate chasing them with these forces (because, unlike rebels, regular troops lose organization while marching and need to spend about half their time stationary to maintain combat effectiveness). This will allow the player to recapture the areas taken by the rebels, and occasionally smack the rebels at good enough odds that one gains experience faster than one loses one's own troops.
The colonial stuff could be a lot clearer. The key seems to be to balance the increases on one's colonial penetration with increases in one's military control, trading those off as needed (missions, for instance, increase CP but reduce MC). The initial stages of a colonial venture are expensive (geographic or anthropological expeditions) but gain some prestige. The military unit "prospectors" is the key here - send them out to the frontier and then prospect around them to get knowledge of the resources as well as gaining CP. After you have 20 CP, switch to chief bribing, then chief treaties, then chief concessions, until you have 35 CP. Station a brigade or so of troops there (with a general that promotes loyalty, if you have one) and wait until MC is high enough to build a military outpost. You might have to launch some punitive expeditions with your troops to hurry along CP. While doing this, create merchants and then trading posts in the areas where you have 35CP. Replace them as they attrite away. When CP is around 50, you can start building roads and sending in the immigrants. I'm still trying to work out what it takes to create protectorates and colonies.
Colonies and protectorates are buildable once the average CP of the entire geographic sub-region is high enough. Once you have a colony in place, it will eventually lead to all the land owned by the natives being transferred to your ownership.
It works kind of weird at times. Example: As the USA, I get colony status on the Cherokee (who inhabit numerous states) once I get the CP in Oklahoma high enough. Since Oklahoma is the smallest multi-province sub-region, that is the one that CP increases are focused on for the colony threshold. Ignore building up CP in neighboring Cherokee states because the only one that matters is the one where their capital is. Africa works the same way. There is a map overlay that shows the breakdown of sub-regions. I think AGEOD terms it as administrative districts or something along those lines.
Quote from: Stonewall on July 05, 2011, 01:05:02 PM
Colonies and protectorates are buildable once the average CP of the entire geographic sub-region is high enough. Once you have a colony in place, it will eventually lead to all the land owned by the natives being transferred to your ownership.
I have succeeded in making protectorates and colonies, but don't know why some attempts succeeded and others didn't. There may be a random element, or it may be random based on CP values, or it may be something else. The ludicrously useless rules don't say.
I am investigating whether or not you have to have 100% military control to create a colony. I don't think so, but it would seem anecdotally that military control plays some role in a successful creation of a colony from a protectorate.
Any enlightenment you could share would help.
I see no way to upgrade units when new technologies make existing units obsolete. Is this also your understanding?
Quote from: grumbler on July 05, 2011, 01:20:14 PM
I have succeeded in making protectorates and colonies, but don't know why some attempts succeeded and others didn't. There may be a random element, or it may be random based on CP values, or it may be something else. The ludicrously useless rules don't say.
I am investigating whether or not you have to have 100% military control to create a colony. I don't think so, but it would seem anecdotally that military control plays some role in a successful creation of a colony from a protectorate.
Any enlightenment you could share would help.
I see no way to upgrade units when new technologies make existing units obsolete. Is this also your understanding?
MC is not necessary to gain colony status. I have successfully "colonized" all of the American Indians and never sent even a single military unit into their territory. I have had revolts following colonization that required military units to quell, but nothing prior to colonization and territorial transfer.
Military unit upgrades come over time. I'm not sure exactly how they work, but eventually your base units and then your elements begin converting to the upgrade. It is a automatic upgrade, but comes randomly. I have no idea if the upgrades drain your replacement pool as in most of my games where upgrading starts to happen, a new beta patch comes out and I immediately restart.
No real patch yet. I'm glad I bought this game.
pfft.
Hmmm, been playing this game for a few days now, and it appears I'm having a problem replenishing my units in the American West.
Playing as the U.S. and kicking the Cherokee, but units dont seem to be re-gaining strength despite having full supply ( I moved them back to St. Louis after a year even, as they weren't getting any manpower back. My officer/conscript ratio is 229/315 so I should have plenty of men to replenish these units....but they aren't.
Any idea what I'm doing wrong? I plopped down a supply depot in Leavenworth, built a supply wagon, and when neither of those worked moved the stack back to St. Louis all to no avail. :mellow:
Have you been buying replacement units? That is what actually replaces loses to your units.
Nope.
Quote from: Alcibiades on July 17, 2011, 04:46:32 PM
Nope.
F3 screen IIRC. I had to find this out the hard way, as well. It isn't clear to me how fractional element replacements work, but it seems like a replacement element will replace about 10 "companies"* of missing troops. The number above the element symbol is the number of "companies" you need to replace to have all your units at full strength.
*That might not be the term
Yeah, figured it out the hard way as well against the Cherokee of all people. Lost an artillery unit and nearly a dragoon unit to attrition while wondering why my men weren't replenishing. :frusty:
So, is there an ETA for an "official" patch? I want to hold off of the beta patches for now. I'm asking because I'm eyeing Supreme Ruler: Cold War right now.
Quote from: Syt on July 19, 2011, 11:56:38 AM
So, is there an ETA for an "official" patch? I want to hold off of the beta patches for now. I'm asking because I'm eyeing Supreme Ruler: Cold War right now.
Funny you mention that game here. I was home today and mightly bored so I DLed it :P
And the funny comes from the fact that the biggest bane of both games appear to be the same: speed. SRCW is very intriquing, but boy it is slooooooow
I've hit the 100 turns mark... after 3-4 weeks. Somebody said it's a glacial pace and it is. In any case when Perry came a-knocking I welcomed him and opened Japan and now scripted events start happening... slowly. Still I've increased my production of basic industrial mats (coal, lumber, minerals) and built railroads in 4 provinces so far (from Edo to Osaka). The last event had the loyalty of the plebs drop by 25% but other than that no immediate repercussions. It's still a bitch to raise manufactured goods and private capital to build other things but, again, slowly but surely I guess is the motto.
Each turn takes about2-3 minutes with patch H.
G.
Yeah it's taking about 2 minutes per turn for me as well. Just feels slow. Think my US game is up to 1855 now. :yawn:
I am still very confused by this whole issue of "force pools" for mine, factories, and the like. I cannto build any more coal mines in my US game, even though I have tons of open coal deposits, because once you build out your force pool, that is it. I can build a gajillion gem mines and dye mines (not sure why I would be mining dyes and not growing them, but whatever) but not a coal mine, iron ore mine, or minerals mine. I can grow opium or tea, had I the resources, but not cattle or cereals. I have the resources, the workers, the money, and the materials all in place, but don't have a tile. Were the designers of the game even thinking when they decided on this concept? I cannot imagine what they thought they were simulating when they decided to have the US build its last coal mine in 1855.
10 bucks on steam. Might as well give the fucker away.
Quote from: grumbler on July 19, 2011, 04:58:08 PM
I am still very confused by this whole issue of "force pools" for mine, factories, and the like. I cannto build any more coal mines in my US game, even though I have tons of open coal deposits, because once you build out your force pool, that is it. I can build a gajillion gem mines and dye mines (not sure why I would be mining dyes and not growing them, but whatever) but not a coal mine, iron ore mine, or minerals mine. I can grow opium or tea, had I the resources, but not cattle or cereals. I have the resources, the workers, the money, and the materials all in place, but don't have a tile. Were the designers of the game even thinking when they decided on this concept? I cannot imagine what they thought they were simulating when they decided to have the US build its last coal mine in 1855.
You can get additional mines in your force pool, maybe from new techs, I don't remember. I think they said they had the limited force pools for gameplay balance reasons which at least makes a small amount of sense even if I do disagree; it would be one thing if a real MP game was possible but considering most people are probably playing SP it doesn't seem necessary.
Quote from: sbr on July 19, 2011, 06:15:34 PM
You can get additional mines in your force pool, maybe from new techs, I don't remember. I think they said they had the limited force pools for gameplay balance reasons which at least makes a small amount of sense even if I do disagree; it would be one thing if a real MP game was possible but considering most people are probably playing SP it doesn't seem necessary.
I don't mind having limited force pools in terms of military units. Forcing the US to import coal is crazy, though.
On sale on Steam. Worth it for half price?
Quote from: Scipio on July 19, 2011, 07:34:36 PM
On sale on Steam. Worth it for half price?
I am enjoying it enough to have gotten my full-price $20 worth. It's not a great game, but has a lot of feel to it and character, though the learning curve is somewhat steep and it completely lacks some things that would allow the player to conduct his turns more quickly. Like the number of unemployed workers by city; you have to sort through the cities to find the ones that are ready for another factory at the moment.
Make sure you get the latest beta patch before you start. It's a bit of a pain to install, but well worth the time spent.
Quote from: grumbler on July 19, 2011, 04:58:08 PM
I am still very confused by this whole issue of "force pools" for mine, factories, and the like.
I think at some point the buildings are supposed to upgrade and then you get a new pool. So perhaps the idea is to push you to get the upgraded building, except of course that the player basically has no control over that.
Is it possible to install beta patches and mods with the Steam version? $10 is tempting, but Steam seems to put out patches on their own schedule, and usually not beta patches for P'dox games.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on July 20, 2011, 06:14:01 PM
Is it possible to install beta patches and mods with the Steam version? $10 is tempting, but Steam seems to put out patches on their own schedule, and usually not beta patches for P'dox games.
I was able to do the 1st beta patch, but I haven't messed with any betas since.
Good enough for me. -_-
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on July 20, 2011, 06:14:01 PM
Is it possible to install beta patches and mods with the Steam version? $10 is tempting, but Steam seems to put out patches on their own schedule, and usually not beta patches for P'dox games.
Yes. I have the steam version and have updated twice.
New 1.01i beta patch available, with installer: http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?t=22268
So has anyone ever finished a whole game of this?
I keep telling myself I should get back to this... Yet I keep not going back to it. You could watch paint dry while turns unfold. Has much changed with the new patch?
G.
Any word on an official, non-beta patch? I want to wait playing for earnest till that one's out.
Quote from: Syt on August 09, 2011, 10:31:15 PM
Any word on an official, non-beta patch? I want to wait playing for earnest till that one's out.
Could be, over in the Paradox forums. To me, the situation smells of neglect and the death of a thousand cuts for AGEOD.
New patch? No. New DLC? Of course.
Oh Paradox.
I didn't spend any money on this. :ph34r:
I thought, AGEOD? It'll be fun. But noooooooo. The AI sends its armies wondering through your country and your provinces flip to their military control. Fuck that shit. 600,000 Prussians in Trieste? The Czar of Russia camping in Buda? Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
I should have wiped my ass with the 20 dollar bill instead of giving it to those Paradox/AGEOD fucks.
This interests me...may I micromanage as in Victoria, or is this a turn it over to the manager (New Vic/HOI3/EU3) game?!?
Quote from: Habsburg on September 07, 2011, 07:56:04 PM
This interests me...may I micromanage as in Victoria, or is this a turn it over to the manager (New Vic/HOI3/EU3) game?!?
You must micromanage. Your fucking leaders die after 6 months and then you need to send all your new leaders (who replace the old ones one for one) from the capital to your armies. If you stockpile goods, they evaporate, but you also cannot spend them because your force pools of industry are too small.
The game looked so great for about the first ten turns, too....
No more AGEOD buys for me.
Tamas taint?
Puhleaze
Quote from: Solmyr on September 08, 2011, 03:05:39 AM
Tamas taint?
Defintely.
Turns out I should have waited for the patch before I bought. I would have saved my money.
I really wanted to like this game :( but it turned me down.
They finally patched this thing officially. Fuck that beta shit.
Has anyone actually ever finished an entire game?
I gave up after the Prussian and Russian armies permenantly vacationed in Austria and several provinces flipped to their military control. Some allies. :lol:
Quote from: Ed Anger on November 23, 2011, 06:17:16 PM
They finally patched this thing officially. Fuck that beta shit.
Holy mother of God, I never thought I'd live to see the day.
QuoteEngine & AI
You can now remove a structure in a region you don't own legitimally, provided you are in peace with the owner (e.g can remove a mine you built in a foreign land).
* Removal of ongoing region decision now works perfectly (right click on the helmet).
* Can't plant a foreign structure if there is an army of a country with -25 or lower relationships (before was -1).
* Demobilize bug solved.
* Length of war augments chances to have the AI propose or accept a peace, +1% for every 3 turns, up to the current calculated chance.
* Suez canal problem not completed if enemy fixed.
* If a colonial mansion is lost (burned by native etc.) it will be recreated sooner or later for free.
* If a region within a protectorate/colony don't have enough CP to switch status, it will gain +1 CP a turn.
* If a tribal owns a city in a region with protectorate + status, it will relinquish it.
* Troops in regions they can't stay in anymore can now be redeployed up to 8 regions away to a legal region (before it was 3).
* Objectives are now correctly added to your list of claims.
* Consulate and governor mansion don't require anymore to have a minimum development level, as it is already checked by the colonial decisions creating these buildings (clearer for gameplay).
* More detailed messages when a decision can't be used because the structure it will build is invalid. Same for the presence of enemy force (hidden or not), a specific message is added.
* Improved the behaviour of the "Upgrade Structure" button on the new Structures List interface.
* New setting (add it in any .opt file, even a new file), aiDoTakeOver, default is false (0). If true, AI takes over abandonned human turns, if false, it leaves them 'as is'. Good for PBEM.
* Structure cost now properly shown in tooltip (including the penalty for many structure, every fifth structure).
* Adjacent territories when liberating a nation were not freed reliably (even if qualified as to be freed). Warscore costs in the interface was erroneously too low (fixed).
* Foreign investments in structures will be costlier and more dangerous (more chance to get seized).
* In some cases, elements could receive replacements without any spending from mother nation.
* Windowed mode should now behave as expected, resolution-wise.
* The game will now pause correctly (if pause on battle is chosen) during turns, without generating display glitch.
* Declaring a protectorate in a region with a significant colonial presence from another country can generates automatically a crisis now (no need to have a stake/contest stake decisions issued).
* AI has added interests in selling or buying non critical merchandises (like tropical fruits, etc.)
* Tradepost now generate their goods later in the turn, so that stockpile situation is clearer for the player.
* AI will favor even more strongly the presence of railroads when seeking a construction site.
* Crash when doing a distant unload fixed.
* 4 colonial structures, when placed, lower others nations CP by 5 each: Mission, School, Dispensary, Outpost. This can be seen as a tool to sap away the influence of others colonial powers.
* New window, listing structures (F11 key).
* There is now a +33% cost penalty to each element which is fighting and was besieged the past turn.
* More effects for the 'Show Support' diplomatic action. Will give you a tiny fraction of the monthly prestige gain from the supported nation, will raise progressively your relationships plus the AI will be aware of supporters before declaring war. If the nation you supported is the target of a DOW, you'll lose some prestige, plus 25 relationships point with the attacker. You'll also get a chance to have a committing CB against the attacker (double-edged sword).
* Cyclical economic crisis have arrived, please refer to the AGE wiki for the rules about them:
http://www.ageod.net/agewiki/Economic_Crisis
* AI now factors fully the net of treaties and supports when seeking for a potential target of a DOW.
* Objectives regions are always at least in your claim list (can be national too, which is the grade above).
* Economic structures after the fifth cost +20% cumulative in capital funds, when being built. This represents the bigger difficulty in convincing investors to fund structures that don't represent brand new opportunities (and is also there to slow down the bigger economy, admittedly!)
* You can now get back the city of regions your legitimately own, if at peace with the owner, even if the region is not national to you (e.g Austria is holding a Polish city, taken from Rebels, and giving it back to Russia).
* When a country is liberated, it will also get back (in addition to its capital region) adjacent regions which are national to it, if owned by the war loser.
* AI will play more and more aggressively colonial decisions (if they can be afforded).
* Fixed a bug that prevented merchant fleets from being repaired in certain circumstances.
* Martial Law will now be enabled automatically, in regions where you have troops and too much militancy. A ruthless country will activate Martial Law as soon as there is 1 point of militancy. An autocratic country will wait for 10 points, and the rest of government types will wait for 30 points accumulated. In the short term, Martial law will tend also to reduce contentment at the same time, mostly for liberal countries.
* The 3 icons at the top of the screen (the ones that change when you change mode) are now fully operational with detailed tooltips. Check them!
* You can't try upgrading a level 4 depot anymore.
* If a region is not pillaged, then there won't be a natural decay in development level even if the region is above the calculated maximum level (dependant of city size and some techs).
* There is now a message indicating when the worth of a colonial area (Sphere of Influence rating) improves because you (heavily) invested into it. Target the colonial capital for maximum effect.
* Scores in various domains are now shown as a tooltip in the Objectives screen, on each of the nation's flag. For your scores, check your capital icon for the corresponding tooltip.
* AI is more dynamic on trading.
* You can't convert supply and ammo if your capital is besieged.
New functionality: SPACEBAR switches between modes (Military -> Economy -> Colonial -> Decisions -> back to the beggining). ALT+SPACEBAR goes into the submode.
* Fixed the crash bug on Population F6 interface (mostly reported on USA)
* Fixed many region display problems on the F6 interface (water regions, enemies regions, etc) and problems with the pie charts construction.
* New: now the conversion of a few merchandises (Gold, gem) to state money can increase inflation (low chance: 1%)
* Improved: depending on your tariff level, there is a chance to hurt relations with other factions (change much upped compared to before).
* New: regional decisions on enemy controlled territory had a chance to be "burned down".
* Fixed: crash bug related to pillagers units on regions without an owner.
* Fixed: script problem with the commands EvalContentment, EvalMilitancy and EvalEducation that prevented them to work properly in some cases.
* You can now enter any region held by an enemy (50% more control) even if the region is owned by someone with whom you don't have a passage treaty.
* False positive Report fixed during battle (No Friendly Group message)
* Tribal relationship will at least be 1 after a formal peace settlement, so they are never hostile after a peace.
* You can enter an enemy controled region, whoever is the legit owner.
* Changed: An harbor of a nation with a trade agreement is valid for exporting goods, before you need to be allied with them (this can explain oddities with oversea assets).
* Inflation increases structure cost.
* You can't capture (or the AI can't) ships from a nation you are at war with, if the war just erupted. Capturing ships after some clever amphibious or land operations will still work.
* Contesting a stake in colonial mode should trigger much more often now.
* You can now see the various sources of prestige gained during past turn by checking the tooltip over the prestige icon, top left of the screen.
* Militancy will have higher impact than before on the long term.
* Fixed a bug where the crisis initiator would lose his planning.
* Less Prestige gain in crisis.
* You can disband troops without prestige loss now. If you are at peace and not under a threat, troops with the 'mobilize' tags will be removed each December.
* AI going-to-war diplomacy bug fixed, giving way to a more logical and prudent AI.
Fixed: AI diplomacy bias was not working correctly
Fixed: crash when browsing the 2D building cards
Fixed: Several events errors, including EvalColSPatus etc.
Fixed: Extended options (SOIs) are now saved
Fixed: Siege where 2 countries or more are besieged now work as intended.
Changed: Non colonial crisis probabilities significantly upped.
Added: VSynch and MultiSampling settings can now be changed, to speed up display.
Added: Merchants Ships in MTBs can now get back hits (with replacements). Build Shipyards!
Added: Rails can now be repaired automatically either by civilian entrepreneurs, or if you have units of the Engineer family.
Changed: Regions in harsh climate can recover from pillage.
new: legitimate owner of a region gets back MC from allies.
fixed: No more North pole crisis.
fixed: All capital icons are now working and send to Diplomacy Window
changed: Decisions Missions, Merchant, Tradepost. Missions will mostly create the Mission building. Merchants give 5£ a turn and enable the use of the Tradepost mission. Tradepost once completed creates the Tradepost building.
fixed: can now scrolls the structures in the 'built structures' panel.
fixed: hits lost by units now show correctly in the Military screen
changed (improved): ctrl-click replaced by right-click in Balance and Industrial screens.
new: tooltip on the population behaviors in Population screen
new: decisions cost and 'tech boosting' cost traced immediately in your balance, top of the screen.
new: Mini tech browser Window, click on the tech category in the Tech screen to open it (in the making!)
FIXED and major: Memory leak removed!
new: You can now cancel Buy orders from the B interface.
fixed: Display bug that masked some structures.
new: Prices recover better and more logically
new: wastage of resource reduced in effect
new: naval resupply algorithm revised entirely, plus message giving details on it.
new: national regions now benefit from a 'minimum development level', if under 10%, you get +1% every 3 months.
new: tribal get replacements for free, slowly.
new: commerce ships in MTBs get back some cohesion over time
fixed: Depot extension and coaling upgrades problem.
new: Initiator of a colonial crisis can lose his CP in the contested colony.
new: minor can be the target of crisis.
fixed: Replacement leaders now appear
fixed: structures in construction can not be activated with the 'activate all' button
fixed: a problem with supply rights that gave the benefit of a defensive treaty.
fixed: Inflation works reliably.
fixed: Map loading improved behavior should now work even if the checkbox is not on (hopefully!)
fixed: Can now use gunboat diplomacy
fixed: DOWing a country now abort all treaties
new: National morale limited to 250. More rubberband mechanisms around morale.
new: if you lack a specific resource for an industry, the message tells you which one.
fixed: you'll get every 3 months a message about your progress on the historical missions.
new: AI time usage in case of war reduced by 10% (not to 10% )
new: Hosting time reduced between 10 and 15%, depending of the turn.
new: the harbors close to your capital can always send sea supply to harbors close to any MTB where you have ships. (Basically if you have a ship as GBR in Southern Africa Trade box, then the harbors near London can send supply to the harbors in South Africa).
new: Can't play prospectors in region where there is no hidden resources.
new: You don't prevent merchant ships to commerce even if you have combat ships in their MTB.
new: When you form up a colony, relationships with the tribal will be at least 0.
new: The resources icons on map now show the number of resources in their tooltip.
new: Before building a structure, the tooltip tells you about the theoretical input and output.
new: Unit building panel code optimized, should not slow down the game anymore.
changed: Crisis about a colony asks for an average 15 CP, not 5.
QuoteData or Events oriented changes
* Some fixes on treaties.
* Austrian Constitution event fixed.
* Coal will be sold more easily by AI.
* Removed coal consumption from coal producing structures.
* Updated AI stockpile, maintenance and usability parameters for some merchandises.
* Increased build time for all structures.
* Increased capital required to build all economical structures
* Fixed some problems on faction modifiers granted by the land techs.
* Moved around transactions to capital trade areas for all majors.
* Fixed a bug in Austrian Constitution revoked 1851 event
* Added more keys to regenerations of laws and reforms (conditions are now more stringent)
* Added 130 missing or wrongly labelled event pictures (thanks to Berto checking tool)
* Fixed many diplomatic relations that were inverted.
* Added some german alliances with Austria (the southern states have a defensive alliance with AUS now)
* Reduced initial POPNeeds in 20% for all factions.
* Corrected some problems in the obsolete generation path of some structures.
* New Zealand Constitution event fixed.
* Niger Trade Zone has now a liaison with the Gulf of Guinea maritime box.
* Added new portraits for HOL rulers and ministers.
* Streamlined China starting colonial situation.
* Added some cities around China to prevent the starting messages "New city has been founded".
* Changed Xinjiang, Tibet and Korea status to feudal factions.
* Changed the Port of Venetia to a Naval Base (with a lower level to compensate).
1870 DLC FPW changes
* added AI guidelines events for Prussia
* added Production (pools and assets)
* added French "Franc-Tireurs" events (guerrillas)
* added French leaders 3*** promotion for AI
* Reduced output of late game structures (-1 production all around the place)
* Increased capital input for all structures and all levels.
* Reworked late game structures output, now they have a linear progression (level1=5, level2=10, level3=15), before it was a 2x relation (level1=5, level2=10, level3=20).
* Reworked input and output relation to fit the new system of linear progression.
* Removed manufactures goods input for Shipyard.
* Reduced Iron base price to 3
* Reduced Minerals base price to 3
* Reduced Nitrates base price to 3
* Reduced Rubber base price to 3
* Reduced Luxuries base price to 11
* Reduced Wood base price to 2
* Reduced Dyes base price to 2
* Reduced Electrical parts base price to 8
* Reduced Autos base price to 25
* Reduced Aviation base price to 30
* Increased cost to build structures outside your country.
* Promise local support duration upped to 24 turns (was 12).
* Peace treaty now also creates a 6-turns right of passage temporary agreement. Once elapsed, forces will be forcefully moved to nearest territory.
* Fixed Italian unification CTD because of a nonexistent treaty
* Fixed BEL crash related to the Vlaandern forts
* Fixed SPA and TUR objectives (No longer the "North Pole")
* Added new objectives for other minor factions (DAN, SWE, MEX, PER)
* Adjusted USA colonial structures to the requirements of the colonial game
* Fixed all FRA events referencing the wrong alias "Kabylie" to the correct one "Kabilyia"
* Fixed all GBR events referencing a non existent area (Area_North_India)
* Fixed USA oil events that generated a CTD
* Reduced prices for all merchandises
* Reworked input/outputs of many structures to adapt the new situation to the new prices.
* Reworked AI stockpile algorithm and logic during the course of the game (to reduce huge stockpiles early on).
* Updated faction stockpile to fit the new AI stockpile algorithm.
* Reworked some structures force pool, now it is spread more along the tech tree (to reduce big jumps in production).
* Reduced some early structures force pool to reduce the huge availability of resources in 1850 because all major nations became powerhouses way too early (See next point).
* New faction traits: now each major faction gets 2 traits (GBR 3) that will increase your structure force pool based around historical production (GBR more coal mines, RUS more cereal farms, etc).
* Updated canned food and furniture industries graphics.
* Fixed the missing "name" and "text" entries for some technologies (some error introduced with the replacement of "armour" for "armor").
* Fixed all "programm" and "canon" appearances on all texts (replaced by "program" and "cannon" respectively).
* Fixed many minor errors reported on event scripts.
* Reduced all prestige gain/loss from all structures.
* Colonial roads decision allows again a region to develop to road level. (bugfix)
* Fixed a problem with wrong objectives assigned during the ACW for USA
* Changed the Coast of Senegal "terrain type" to Coastal Water (instead of Ocean).
* Added Zwedru region to the Ivory Coast colonial area.
* Fixed the problem that prevented in some cases to build railroads for players that already discovered the advanced railroad.
* Fixed: some Russian events (e.g. Kolokol 1857) that made loyalty plunge down too fast and too strong in anticipation of Serfdom Abolition event (moved forward to 1861)
* Eased the requirements for Child Work abolition and made chances of vote higher
* Fixed typo in Merchant Fleet mission which wrongly stated 100 merchant ships instead of 30 (50 for Britain)
* Fixed an error in the German/Italian unification events that made them occur only once
* Fixed various text typos
* Added a new entry system for USA and CSA generals during the ACW if it occurs at an earlier date
* Added some events to boost appearance of German and Italian unity when the player is either USA or Japan (in order to create a more 'known' Europe and higher challenge for player)
* Corrected file names for some military units that had typos, thereby preventing them to be displayed correctly
* Fixed some models data that was preventing proper showing of units pictures
* Added Amadeus' German proofreading of texts
* Renamed some units pictures that prevented them to be shown correctly
* Added missing texts for British Events: 1852 NZ Constitution and 1854 Miner Rebellion, same for French and Italian events about the 1864 September Convention
* Changed the Rebels proportion (lowered) in manu events, including Poland's martial law (Russian)
* Renamed Hevea to Rubber (English) to all concerned events
* Reworked merchandises contentment values and prices.
* Fixed: bug related to railroad/advanced railroad efficiencies that created an excessive bonus coming from the tech tree.
* Fixed: streamlined VP gain per turn coming from faction modifiers to reduce the snowballing effect seen on GBR.
*fixed: Warscore evaluation and cost of treaty proposals
*changed: 'NON' nation is always hostile.
*fixed: AI siege bug
*changed: Colonial Merchant can augments dev level up to 15%.
*fixed: Defensive treaty could be accepted while not being valid in the end.
*fixed: you can't build a depot upgrade over a depot in construction.
*changed: some silly cases of crisis.
*changed: you will get back military control and cities, from non hostile nations, in some cases, in regions you legitimally own.
*fixed: yet another memory leak (a significant one)
*added: AI will now explain why she refuses a treaty proposal.
*changed: Drain lands should now work only in swamps
*changed: AI has more chance to accept peace.
*added: Relations with a tribal will change, depending of your ownership of their capital. If you are in protectorate or better status, they become friendly, otherwise, they become hostile.
* Changed all events with diplomatic item FullWar to War (so peace talks and conditions should be easier for the initial stages). Note that the ACW, the 3rd Carlist War and the Taiping rebellion remain FullWar, i.e. peace is almost impossible except via total victory (or event ending)
* Fixed ACW events (US fleets go to NYC instead of upper Mississippi, fixed too much REB loyalty, especially in Washington)
* Fixed AI reaction in many events (German Unification, Crimean War)
* Added events about natives getting access to more modern weapons later on in game
* Fixed errors in Units & Models
* Added new Leaders portraits (from our Beta team)
* Changed many sprites positions in various regions to improve visibility
* Finally completed Dutch events
* Made TUR and BEL playable in this version
* Added extra events for colonial crisis (Cuba, Philippines, Aceh, Morocco)
*New look for the Tech Tree Navigation interface
*Added new links from the Research Interface to the Tech Tree Navigation
*Solved the problem with Coaling Station Upgrade removing the Port if the CP on the region was not enough
*Solved reported bugs on Rulers (corrected refferences, removed extra spaces that prevented some images to be loaded, etc)
*Added new portraits for German Minors, Spain and China
*Plugged the new placeholder ruler portraits to some factions
*Fixed some Tech Startup problem with some techs that you had ahead of time (you had the second level instead of the prerequisite)
¤ IA choices modified in multi-choices events.
¤ Japan events and Perry visit events fixed (txt added + balancing)
¤ all models and units file names changed to allow better performance with non-Western O/S
¤ Native American and GBR leaders pictures added
* Fixed some budget and costs of the EIC army: GBR now receives 250£ every 6 months as 'contribution' to finance the Army in India (till 1860)
* fixed some upgrade costs on units - Also added missing pictures for some units
* Fixed EvalColStatusArea script error
* Fixed natural disasters events (wrong religion alias caused crash)
*Models DB fixes (costs, tech upgrades, new pictures, new values for some elements)
* Fixed a script error that prevented the Missions annual checks to be effected and displayed.
* In addition FP of economic structures is adjusted for some missions (e.g. more cereal farms for Russia)
* New 1850 GC OOB: lots of African and Asian nations forces added on map (still WIP if volunteers want to bring corrections)
* Changed Cotton resources on map outside USA: much lower until the ACW occurs, then Cotton 'spreads' to Egypt, India and Southern Brazil in greater quantities
* Diplomatic parameters for AI added (thanks to Ehrenbourg tremendous work!)
* New events for SPA, POR, BEL and TUR added
* More Colonial and Balkan crisis events
* Allowed German unification by peaceful means to occur earlier
* Fixed wrong states borders in the USA (thanks to Aragos)
* Cherokee are friendly to USA, other Indian tribes start at peace
* Fix of abilities (CinC appliance)
* Oil, gold, gems and rubber resources fix (add population during rushes)
* Some 1850 setup fix in regions (control, trade, resources)
The game is on sale for $1.70(US) on Gamersgate
http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-PON/pride-of-nations
A buck seventy? Think of the candy bars I could buy!
Love this (v1.02) :wub:
But i've only had it two days. :)
v1.02
Okay so I've invested three weeknights and got to mid-1851 only to have production in two provinces shut down due to "unrest."
My question is I started w/the default tax settings. Every other turn some province in France dropped 10% in happiness due "high taxes."
Now 1.5 years into the game two provinces have shut down production due to unrest.
So this is normal and the production will come back?
At game start do you drop taxes way down from the default settings?
Thanks.
Lower the taxes?
Nobody said the default level wasn't too high.
I can't remember all the things I did at game start, but I seem to recall lowering taxes and financing early projects with import tariffs.
Taxes are kinda bad anyway, since most of the stuff you want to build early on is financed by corporate money, not government money. As you spend more corporate money to expand your economy, you will find that you don't need to increase the tax rate to get government funds.
One of the taxes hits corporate profits without much other impact. Play with that one to shift money as needed between government and private capital.
Pay attention to where the resources are that you cannot make on your own. Your businesses can make a fair amount of cash by importing luxury goods like tropical fruits, gold, and jewels. Maybe its not tropical fruits, but something like that...
It's kind of fun to play with for a while if you view it for what it is - a concept demonstrator for some neat game ideas rather than a fully functioning game in itself. There are some fun mechanics and parts of it work pretty well for a few turns. But aside from the fact that it doesn't appear to be getting the support it needs, it can't overcome the fatal flaw that the time scale and game scope are totally mis-matched.
I still kind of really like it?
The irony - Wagner betwen turns.
:zzz:
try Multiplayer ;) seems to take as long as Witp campaign :ph34r:
Quote from: sbr on December 19, 2011, 03:34:57 AM
The game is on sale for $1.70(US) on Gamersgate
http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-PON/pride-of-nations
Had some spare credit with DailyIndieGame so bought it for a buck fifty. :blush:
I wonder if i'll be any good?