So...I think I might get lynched by some fanbois, but....I think the movie ending is considerably better than the book.
I mean seriously, a giant fucking squid? Totally disconnected from the rest of the story. Movie ending was a big improvement.
Heretic! ...but I do agree the squid would not make sense in the movie, but it went well with the book, more comic like.
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2009, 09:28:10 AM
I mean seriously, a giant fucking squid? Totally disconnected from the rest of the story. Movie ending was a big improvement.
Have you ever read Watchmen? The squid is what Pyramid is all about, and thus the detective story.
It doesn't translate as well today, because psychic shit is less vogue than it was in the 80s.
Quote from: Neil on March 11, 2009, 09:59:13 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2009, 09:28:10 AM
I mean seriously, a giant fucking squid? Totally disconnected from the rest of the story. Movie ending was a big improvement.
Have you ever read Watchmen? The squid is what Pyramid is all about, and thus the detective story.
It doesn't translate as well today, because psychic shit is less vogue than it was in the 80s.
Of course I read the story - I finished it a few days before seeing the movie.
Not sure what you mean about Pyramid being all about the squid. I realize that Pyramid was the cover company for Veidt plan to scare the owrld witha giant psychic squid, but that doesn't mean it fits. It might as well ahve been a giant hamster, or maybe a gigantic beetle turd.
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2009, 10:16:45 AM
Quote from: Neil on March 11, 2009, 09:59:13 AM
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2009, 09:28:10 AM
I mean seriously, a giant fucking squid? Totally disconnected from the rest of the story. Movie ending was a big improvement.
Have you ever read Watchmen? The squid is what Pyramid is all about, and thus the detective story.
It doesn't translate as well today, because psychic shit is less vogue than it was in the 80s.
Of course I read the story - I finished it a few days before seeing the movie.
Not sure what you mean about Pyramid being all about the squid. I realize that Pyramid was the cover company for Veidt plan to scare the owrld witha giant psychic squid, but that doesn't mean it fits. It might as well ahve been a giant hamster, or maybe a gigantic beetle turd.
Less scary.
The giant squid works because it's a threat that appears to be beyond the ken of human understanding and so I think is a more effective stimulus for the world to harmoniously unite thereby achieving Veidt's goal. The biggest question marks are on the practicality of creating such a thing, and of keeping the research and development required for such an undertaking secret. Yeah, yeah, Veidt killed everybody, but the huge amount of scientific development necessary would have left its mark.
Dr. Manhattan as worldwide threat works as it's a direct and obvious danger that's easily understood, and would require tremendous effort to defeat. Covering up the undertaking appears easier as well, one technology researched with the main source of the development (Dr. Manhattan) unlikely to spill the beans. The big question marks are the likelihood of needing repeat destructions of cities to keep the threat uppermost in people's minds when the Dr. doesn't show up for a long time, and the greater chance of squabbling/attempts to make deals.
I never read the comic, but when i first read about the ending back on the "old" forum i commented that i thought it was as upid ending. The movies choice seems much better.
I actually thought the movie ending had an element of "Jesus will throw in the lake of fire" to it - that the destruction was not done as an attack on humanity, but as a punishment, with the threat of more punishment to come if humans are not "good".
This is a weaker message - it is not that nuclear war was averted because mankind came together against an outside threat, but simply because mankind is afraid of being punished again.
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2009, 11:38:38 AM
This is a weaker message - it is not that nuclear war was averted because mankind came together against an outside threat, but simply because mankind is afraid of being punished again.
more fitting witht eh human psyche lol
It seems like actually makes way more sense. Veidt eliminates his only threat and accomplishes his goal in the same move. Having not seen the movie yet though, I can't really say.
Quote from: Evil Spock on March 11, 2009, 12:17:30 PM
It seems like actually makes way more sense. Veidt eliminates his only threat and accomplishes his goal in the same move. Having not seen the movie yet though, I can't really say.
It was the TV interview and the cancer that got rid of Manhattan, not the finale. That was what pushed him to realize that he was never coming back. Laurie's performance on Mars might have made him a bit nostalgic and willing to help out a little, but he had already cut ties with Earth, and saving the planet was his way of cutting ties with Laurie.
And I don't understand how can somebody said that Ozzy was the "good guy"... He did this all to make money rebuiling the world...
Quote from: I Killed Kenny on March 11, 2009, 03:28:57 PM
And I don't understand how can somebody said that Ozzy was the "good guy"... He did this all to make money rebuiling the world...
He was a republican. :)
Quote from: I Killed Kenny on March 11, 2009, 03:28:57 PM
And I don't understand how can somebody said that Ozzy was the "good guy"... He did this all to make money rebuiling the world...
Probably not. After all, he was already the wealthiest human being on the planet.
As I said in the old thread, the ending doesn't make sense to me as it doesn't seem like people would be cowed by fear for very long. This wouldn't be everlasting peace as eventually people would stop being fearful of Dr. Manhattan. Considering how public a figure he was (the news knew when he went to Mars), eventually people will figure out that he's gone.
Quote from: Berkut on March 11, 2009, 09:28:10 AMSo...I think I might get lynched by some fanbois, but....I think the movie ending is considerably better than the book.
I think you're right that the movie ending is much more connected to the story than the book ending. However, the book ending has more of a grounding in reality:
Quote from: Ronald ReaganCannot swords be turned to plowshares? Can we and all nations not live in peace? In our obsession with antagonisms of the moment, we often forget how much unites all the members of humanity. Perhaps we need some outside, universal threat to make us recognize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside this world.
Quote from: garbon on March 11, 2009, 04:02:45 PM
As I said in the old thread, the ending doesn't make sense to me as it doesn't seem like people would be cowed by fear for very long. This wouldn't be everlasting peace as eventually people would stop being fearful of Dr. Manhattan. Considering how public a figure he was (the news knew when he went to Mars), eventually people will figure out that he's gone.
*but* the was on mars and he came back to earth just to blow somep places up... he can do it when ever he wants.
And in 1985 people thought the only problem in the world was USvsUSSR
Quote from: Neil on March 11, 2009, 03:41:29 PM
Quote from: I Killed Kenny on March 11, 2009, 03:28:57 PM
And I don't understand how can somebody said that Ozzy was the "good guy"... He did this all to make money rebuiling the world...
Probably not. After all, he was already the wealthiest human being on the planet.
Greed is never ending
Quote from: I Killed Kenny on March 11, 2009, 06:15:35 PM
*but* the was on mars and he came back to earth just to blow somep places up... he can do it when ever he wants.
And in 1985 people thought the only problem in the world was USvsUSSR
But they knew he was on mars. How long do you think people would sit around wondering where he is? At the very most, I could see people being afraid until knowledge of Dr. Manhattan passes out of living memory. Is that long enough to justify the many slaughtered all at once? (I also don't really see that as a realistic timeline anyway, as there will always be rogue dissenting groups...I simply don't see how this would really lead to a permanently united earth.)
Quote from: garbon on March 11, 2009, 06:18:53 PM
Quote from: I Killed Kenny on March 11, 2009, 06:15:35 PM
*but* the was on mars and he came back to earth just to blow somep places up... he can do it when ever he wants.
And in 1985 people thought the only problem in the world was USvsUSSR
Again, in 1985 they thought world peace would happen if USA and USSR were in Peace.
They could try not to wage war, but they would sooner or later fight again.
And Veit, probably just wanted to make money from the reconstruction and this way trying to enter into the communist block ( an whole new market)
But they knew he was on mars. How long do you think people would sit around wondering where he is? At the very most, I could see people being afraid until knowledge of Dr. Manhattan passes out of living memory. Is that long enough to justify the many slaughtered all at once? (I also don't really see that as a realistic timeline anyway, as there will always be rogue dissenting groups...I simply don't see how this would really lead to a permanently united earth.)
Forgiving the quoting error (I made one myself recently), that still doesn't make much sense...from the vein of Manhattan and the other Watchmen were conflicted about giving up Ozy's deception. War would inevitably come again, although perhaps cooler heads vis-a-vis nuclear warfare would prevail.