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General Category => Off the Record => Gaming HQ => Topic started by: Josephus on January 24, 2014, 07:06:15 PM

Title: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on January 24, 2014, 07:06:15 PM
No surprise.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?844-Hearts-of-Iron-IV

Hearts of Iron IV Announced - Victory at all costs
You are now in command of World War II! Your ability to lead your nation is your supreme weapon, the strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio lets you take command of any nation in World War II; the most engaging conflict in world history.

From the heart of the battlefield to the command center, you will guide your nation to glory and wage war, negotiate or invade. You hold the power to tip the very balance of WWII. It is time to show your ability as the greatest military leader in the world. Will you relive or change history? Will you change the fate of the world?

Announced Features
Total strategic war – The war is not only won on land, on the seas and in the air, but also in the laboratories, the factories, the backrooms, in international trade and in the hearts and minds of men and women.
The most authentic real-time simulation of the war – Let the greatest commanders of WW2 fight your war with the tools of the time; tanks, planes, ships, guns and newly discovered weapons of mass destruction.
Fight as any nation in the greatest human conflict of all time – Chose from the greatest powers striving for victory, or the small nations trying to weather the storm.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on January 25, 2014, 04:26:57 AM
I never really tried to play any HoI game.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Neil on January 25, 2014, 09:44:15 AM
This game will live or die based on it's ability to impress me with their simulation of naval combat.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 25, 2014, 10:14:05 AM
They just won't stop, will they.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Ed Anger on January 25, 2014, 10:16:29 AM
Sweden will have 500 events.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Solmyr on January 25, 2014, 10:48:17 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 25, 2014, 10:16:29 AM
Sweden will have 500 events.

Per day.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on January 25, 2014, 11:03:17 AM
Charles XII takes command.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Phillip V on January 25, 2014, 11:19:06 AM
I had a hard time keeping track of all the HoI3 DLC.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on January 25, 2014, 12:40:23 PM
Let me guess, it's going to be set in the middle of the 20th century again?  :rolleyes:  :zzz
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Alcibiades on January 25, 2014, 12:42:54 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on January 25, 2014, 12:44:29 PM
WI Hitler had been born in 1789?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on January 25, 2014, 12:44:42 PM
Map sucks
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: celedhring on January 25, 2014, 05:32:18 PM
I have trouble telling some of the HoI games apart. What will have this one that separates it from the others?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on January 25, 2014, 06:22:46 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 25, 2014, 05:32:18 PM
I have trouble telling some of the HoI games apart. What will have this one that separates it from the others?

Everything :w00t:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on January 25, 2014, 07:32:47 PM
Yay HoI4!  I'll probably pre-order.



I'm such a sucker.  :Embarrass:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: sbr on January 25, 2014, 08:00:05 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on January 25, 2014, 07:32:47 PM
Yay HoI4!  I'll probably pre-order.



I'm such a sucker.  :Embarrass:

Me too.  :(
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: fhdz on January 25, 2014, 08:04:33 PM
I guess I've kind of moved on from Paradox games. CKII looks interesting, but I haven't pulled the trigger and probably won't. They just don't seem to do very much for me anymore.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Ed Anger on January 25, 2014, 08:17:57 PM
Quote from: fhdz on January 25, 2014, 08:04:33 PM
I guess I've kind of moved on from Paradox games. CKII looks interesting, but I haven't pulled the trigger and probably won't. They just don't seem to do very much for me anymore.

Wait for CKII to pop up in those bundles. Your patience will be rewarded.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Ed Anger on January 25, 2014, 08:18:39 PM
Although you can kill kids in it. Might be too intense for you.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 26, 2014, 01:16:18 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 25, 2014, 08:18:39 PM
Although you can kill kids in it. Might be too intense for you.

Try Plague Inc., for Apple. 

QuoteCan you infect the world? Plague Inc. is a unique mix of high strategy and terrifyingly realistic simulation.

Your pathogen has just infected 'Patient Zero'. Now you must bring about the end of human history by evolving a deadly, global Plague whilst adapting against everything humanity can do to defend itself.

Brilliantly executed with innovative gameplay and built from the ground up for iPhone & iPad, Plague Inc. evolves the strategy genre and pushes mobile gaming (and you) to new levels. It's You vs. the world - only the strongest can survive!


If fhdz had a weak stomach for the wailing in DEFCON, he wouldn't sleep for days with this game's soundtrack.   :lol:

Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: dps on January 26, 2014, 01:17:03 AM
Quote from: fhdz on January 25, 2014, 08:04:33 PM
I guess I've kind of moved on from Paradox games. CKII looks interesting, but I haven't pulled the trigger and probably won't. They just don't seem to do very much for me anymore.

I still play the heck out of EU3, and play CK:DV some.  I don't have any desire to get HOI3 (much less HOI4) or EU4, but CKII does tempt me.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Ed Anger on January 26, 2014, 02:09:21 AM
I would create wonderful Panzer armies in HOI3, with such and such korps in the OB. And then, I'd get annoyed with the real time bullshit.

GIVE ME HEXES OR GIVE ME DEATH.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: PRC on January 26, 2014, 02:26:12 AM
If you don't have CKII do yourself a favour and get it when it's on sale.  It's a hell of a good game.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on January 26, 2014, 05:24:39 AM
I haven't played HoI3 at all as it didn't have much appeal for me. Looking forward to this one anyway as I hope that their streamlined user interface and more polish will make it a good game. I hope they get the naval part right this time.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on January 26, 2014, 10:22:03 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 25, 2014, 08:18:39 PM
Although you can kill kids in it. Might be too intense for you.

Also rape women.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Solmyr on January 26, 2014, 10:41:03 AM
I have a gift copy of CK2 if someone wants it.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Alcibiades on January 26, 2014, 10:51:12 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 26, 2014, 02:09:21 AM
I would create wonderful Panzer armies in HOI3, with such and such korps in the OB. And then, I'd get annoyed with the real time bullshit.

GIVE ME HEXES OR GIVE ME DEATH.


The game moves too fast for Ed without hexes and the End Turn button.  RTS's and first person shooters probably give Ed seizures.   :P
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on January 26, 2014, 11:52:08 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on January 26, 2014, 02:09:21 AM
I would create wonderful Panzer armies in HOI3, with such and such korps in the OB. And then, I'd get annoyed with the real time bullshit.

GIVE ME HEXES OR GIVE ME DEATH.

Wiccans. :x
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: fhdz on January 26, 2014, 02:33:50 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on January 26, 2014, 10:41:03 AM
I have a gift copy of CK2 if someone wants it.

Really? Well I certainly would play it if it was free.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on January 26, 2014, 02:54:44 PM
Something given has no value.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: fhdz on January 26, 2014, 02:55:54 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 26, 2014, 02:54:44 PM
Something given has no value.

OK, sociopathy!
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Solmyr on January 26, 2014, 03:56:48 PM
Quote from: fhdz on January 26, 2014, 02:33:50 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on January 26, 2014, 10:41:03 AM
I have a gift copy of CK2 if someone wants it.

Really? Well I certainly would play it if it was free.

Add me on Steam if you want it, username Solmyr77
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on January 26, 2014, 04:53:12 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 26, 2014, 02:54:44 PM
Something given has no value.

Not true, according to Customs. You still have to declare it.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on January 26, 2014, 05:02:13 PM
I got a CK2 gift copy, but I'm not gonna tell you guys my Steam name. Last thing I need is an army of rabid stalkers.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Ed Anger on January 26, 2014, 07:13:02 PM
Quote from: The Brain on January 26, 2014, 05:02:13 PM
I got a CK2 gift copy, but I'm not gonna tell you guys my Steam name. Last thing I need is an army of rabid stalkers.

:yes:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: katmai on January 26, 2014, 07:15:05 PM
I apparently have one of those gift copies too, no idea how i acquired it though :lol:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on January 26, 2014, 07:28:11 PM
I got mine with euiv preorder.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: fhdz on January 27, 2014, 01:51:07 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on January 26, 2014, 03:56:48 PM
Quote from: fhdz on January 26, 2014, 02:33:50 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on January 26, 2014, 10:41:03 AM
I have a gift copy of CK2 if someone wants it.

Really? Well I certainly would play it if it was free.

Add me on Steam if you want it, username Solmyr77

Didn't come up in search for some reason...
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on January 27, 2014, 10:26:18 AM
Quote from: The Brain on January 26, 2014, 05:02:13 PM
I got a CK2 gift copy, but I'm not gonna tell you guys my Steam name. Last thing I need is an army of rabbit stalkers.
Sound thinking. :yes:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: CountDeMoney on January 27, 2014, 06:00:55 PM
Instead of getting Hearts of Iron IV, you guys should just buy the original Hearts of Iron four times.  Same fucking outcome.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Viking on January 28, 2014, 09:59:11 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 27, 2014, 06:00:55 PM
Instead of getting Hearts of Iron IV, you guys should just buy the original Hearts of Iron four times.  Same fucking outcome.

Best outcome with HOI:2 twice
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Monoriu on January 28, 2014, 10:19:41 PM
So what is the difference between HoI 4 and 3? 
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on January 28, 2014, 10:25:38 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on January 28, 2014, 10:19:41 PM
So what is the difference between HoI 4 and 3? 

Quote from: garbon on January 25, 2014, 06:22:46 PM
Quote from: celedhring on January 25, 2014, 05:32:18 PM
I have trouble telling some of the HoI games apart. What will have this one that separates it from the others?

Everything :w00t:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on January 29, 2014, 08:34:15 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on January 28, 2014, 10:19:41 PM
So what is the difference between HoI 4 and 3? 
Very little.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on January 29, 2014, 12:46:31 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on January 28, 2014, 10:19:41 PM
So what is the difference between HoI 4 and 3?
HoI 1.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Tamas on January 29, 2014, 12:48:03 PM
Quote from: DGuller on January 29, 2014, 12:46:31 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on January 28, 2014, 10:19:41 PM
So what is the difference between HoI 4 and 3?
HoI 1.

I lolled
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: PRC on February 07, 2014, 11:04:38 AM
podcat's Dev Diary out: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?754427-Hearts-of-Iron-IV-Development-Diary-1-Our-Vision

Quote
Welcome to the first development diary for Hearts of Iron IV!

My name is Dan Lind and I´m the project lead for Hearts of Iron IV, an updated and improved version of Paradox Development Studio's World War II themed grand-strategy game.
Prepare to lead your armies, upgrade your equipment and deal in subtle (or not so subtle!) diplomacy once again!
It has almost been five years since the release of Hearts of Iron III, and though we released a few expansion packs during this time, it is really exciting to finally get the chance to do a proper sequel!
We showed off an early pre-alpha build of Hearts of Iron IV at ParadoxCon in Miami last month, so some information is already out there. If you missed it, check out this thread.

What is Hearts of Iron?
In light of our recent successes like Crusader Kings II and Europa Universalis IV, I realize that we probably have a lot of new faces with us - people might not have tried the earlier Hearts of Iron games. So, before we dig into what makes Hearts of Iron IV different and special, let me talk a bit about what the series is all about so that everyone has some grounding. The Hearts of Iron series is about taking control of your nation of choice in the years around World War II (1936 to 1948) and leading it to victory. And it all comes down to how well you, as a player, can navigate your ship of state - that is your supreme weapon. Hearts of Iron IV is the wargame where a high level of strategic and military planning is needed for you to secure victory. Every action you take has the potential to tip the balance of power in your favor, forever altering the political and ideological landscape.

A WWII Grand strategy game
Hearts of Iron is, like most Paradox Development Studio titles, a grand strategy game in an open sandbox. The World War II theme does mean that there is a lot greater focus on the preparation for war, your industrial output and military doctrines and equipment. But in Hearts of Iron IV, you are dealing with the bigger picture and a very high level of strategic planning; this is not a pure old-fashioned wargame. Losing small battles is utterly insignificant to the larger campaign. You have to look at the entire war and take decisions in a multiple of aspects to reach victory - this is truly high level war planning, including production lines, technological advances, securing strategic resources and, of course, making those large armored drives through the plains of Europe.

Comparison to other PDS titles
The big thing that sets it apart from our other game series such as Crusader Kings II and Europa Universalis IV is that it covers a much shorter period of time, namely the years around the Second World War and that it focuses heavily on preparing for and fighting that war. This means that your priorities will largely stay the same throughout the game – your are unlikely to make a dramatic change from one kind of nation to another. You can pick any nation in the world and either ride out the storm on the sidelines, get involved in the grand cataclysm, or try something a little bit in-between. Hearts of Iron is packed full of historical flavor and awesome details, something much harder to accomplish in games spanning hundreds of years.

However even if Hearts of Iron IV is a grand strategy game highly focused on war, the role you take on as the player is close to the role you take in Europa Universalis IV - you will play as the guiding spirit behind the nation trying to shape history and determine the fate of your country, often guided by in-game events and decisions. The game focuses on making choices for your nation, both in warfare as in the character of your country's technological progress, national ideas and strategic goals. You can pick any nation and decide what role you will take in WW2.
You can choose different play styles depending on your personal interest or based on the different strengths and weaknesses of the historic powers. For example, as Germany you have an incentive to start the war, while the UK and US will likely start on the defensive and will fight massive naval battles. You can even try to survive as a minor nation, whose government continues fighting from exile or be a smaller power taking advantage of the global war to expand your rightful territory. Nothing that says that your goal must be to win WWII - since the game is sandbox, victory is determined by the goals you set up for yourself during the WWII time-span.

Vision
Our goal for Hearts of Iron IV is to do something similar to what we did with Crusader King II and Europa Universalis IV - keep the flavor and complexity of the game intact while making the game much more streamlined and easier to learn, with much improved interfaces. We also aim for a fresh playing experience so there will be changes from the previous game.

More focus on planning and high level decisions.
Hearts of Iron III could either be played with full manual control, where micromanagement would be pretty heavy (often to the point where you would struggle to pay attention to all aspects of the game) or with AI assistance, where your control over the systems you surrendered to the AI was very limited. We are developing a planning system that gives you greater control while not being as taxing as the detailed manual play from the last Hearts of Iron game. We want to give you time to look at the bigger picture. In my opinion, this also adds a lot of immersion, since it feels more like I am guiding a military campaign rather just shuffling units between provinces.
For the micro-managers out there - you can still do very detailed plans and update them in real-time, which will basically work like the old manual control but the system will reward successful longer term plans, so expect to have a few things to learn! There won't be any large "automate this" buttons in the game. We want all parts to be fun and playable. If they are not, they get redesigned or replaced.

Less railroading – more historical feel
A big problem with historical games is that people know what happened, especially in such a well-documented period as World War II. The leaders of those days did not have crystal balls or an active forum of amateur historians from the future telling them what would happen next. This is something that we need to deal with without losing the sense of place and realism that people have come to appreciate about our games. A lot of things will require gradual changes and actually living through events, which should give a much better historical feel as well as creating a game where it is easier to try out alternate paths of history and not feel that the only road to success is following whatever plan Eisenhower had.

Everything at your fingertips
To play Hearts of Iron you need a lot of information so you can make the right choices, be it long term (where is the best area for my armored spearhead?) or short term (what time does the sun set?). Previously this required you to look around in a lot of places - in Hearts of Iron IV information is much more context sensitive, and most important stuff will be shown directly on the map. You will see more of this in future developer diaries.

To sum it up:
Our hopes for this game is that you as a player will feel in control of a real global conflict and want to learn the tools of warfare in an open sandbox environment during this intense period of history. Our goal with Hearts of Iron IV is to create a WWII game completely focused on Global Strategic Warfare.
We are aiming to make Hearts of Iron IV the best WWII strategy game yet with a smoother learning curve and deeper gameplay. Its pretty ambitious, but I think we have the experience and passion to pull it off. And the recent experience of Paradox developed games shows that we're on the right path, I think.

Of course, actual development for Hearts of Iron IV hasn't been going on for that long yet (we are currently in pre-alpha), even if we have been thinking about it and discussing it for years. As we designed each expansion for Hearts of Iron III, there were always things too large to implement, or that wouldn't quite fit into the world, and we had to put those things in our "future" pile. So when starting development we had a few years of notes and discussions to go through. I expect old beta testers and forum regulars to go, "Ohh, I remember this!", as we start to reveal new things in diaries.

We will start slow and release development diaries about once every month and later speed up their release as we march towards early 2015 so sit back and enjoy the ride!
Oh, I almost forgot! Here is a screenshot of the map (click for larger version). This shows just the terrain currently. It is early and political borders are not yet polished to be accurate enough to show them off. Enjoy!

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.paradoxplaza.com%2Fforum%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D100936%26amp%3Bd%3D1391779786&hash=d8fdc062793c4afdac3469e9881454091790354e)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on February 07, 2014, 11:17:44 AM
Map .... doesn't suck?  :hmm:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: dps on February 07, 2014, 11:17:35 PM
Quote from: Syt on February 07, 2014, 11:17:44 AM
Map .... doesn't suck?  :hmm:

Sure, it looks OK now, but wait till it's released and they've mistakenly put Berlin on Long Island or in the Sahara.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on February 07, 2014, 11:52:04 PM
I wonder if they can solve the big problem with Hearts of Iron III, which was that it was boring as hell.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on February 08, 2014, 03:23:41 AM
Naggaroth is appropriately dark.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 08, 2014, 12:48:44 PM
Do you think there will be swastikas for units in the game?  And what about modelling concentration camps into the German economy?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Neil on February 08, 2014, 01:57:28 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 08, 2014, 12:48:44 PM
Do you think there will be swastikas for units in the game?  And what about modelling concentration camps into the German economy?
Wouldn't their effects be pretty negligible?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 08, 2014, 05:42:37 PM
Quote from: Neil on February 08, 2014, 01:57:28 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on February 08, 2014, 12:48:44 PM
Do you think there will be swastikas for units in the game?  And what about modelling concentration camps into the German economy?
Wouldn't their effects be pretty negligible?

Not according to the EU Forum Wars of '00 and '01.   :mad:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: katmai on February 08, 2014, 06:36:18 PM
Okay grognard.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josquius on February 09, 2014, 05:50:15 AM
Maybe some kind of jew numbers ticker and the German player has to kill as many as possible before they go down. Oh how fun. :w00t:

HOI3 was terrible.
And I've gone off this kind of game in general really. Which is good I suppose.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Phillip V on February 14, 2014, 05:18:42 PM
(https://scontent-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1/1911649_728179407222915_1085802736_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on February 16, 2014, 04:39:51 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs7.directupload.net%2Fimages%2F140201%2F7qtlnl9x.jpg&hash=a0c6df491c83754cf27fbe20709e07d8d8ba61cd)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: CountDeMoney on February 16, 2014, 12:21:59 PM
While it's an impressive feat, using 16 monitors seems a bit unorthodox, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on February 16, 2014, 01:14:46 PM
That's probably going to be on the system requirements: 16 screens.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Neil on February 17, 2014, 10:35:07 AM
Quote from: Josephus on February 16, 2014, 01:14:46 PM
That's probably going to be on the system requirements: 16 screens.
But the game will crash if you use a multicore processor.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on February 17, 2014, 11:01:31 AM
Quote from: Neil on February 17, 2014, 10:35:07 AM
Quote from: Josephus on February 16, 2014, 01:14:46 PM
That's probably going to be on the system requirements: 16 screens.
But the game will crash if you use a multicore processor.

Well that goes without saying.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 07, 2014, 12:12:30 AM
I loved HoI2 so much, but I never even bothered with HoI3, it just didn't look good.

This looks nice at least.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on April 01, 2014, 07:10:44 AM
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/content.php?1886-Hearts-of-Iron-IV-Dev-Diary-3-Bringing-WWII-to-the-mainstream

QuoteOne of our main goals with HoI 4 has been to simplify things to appeal to a more mainstream audience without sacrificing historical appeal. Initially this seemed impossible until the recent release of Call of Duty: Ghosts. The key to the success of Ghosts was the inclusion of Riley, a dog companion and playable character. Immediately the solution was clear: Popular games have dogs, and as everyone knows Hitler was famously a dog-lover, so the National Dog concept was born.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.paradoxplaza.com%2Fforum%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D105086%26amp%3Bd%3D1396352880&hash=d8580e6add44118cfa7d0d4bbf9635fe788d22ee)

The National Dog(ND) system should be familiar to anyone who has played CK2 or EUIII/IV, as it is used in a similar manner to a Councillor, National Focus, or Agent from those games. You can monitor and control your ND from the Dog Management screen by selecting a Canine Power and then clicking on the appropriate area of the map or UI. You ND can be used for many missions, including:

Puppy Socialisation: By allowing the political elite of your national to play with your National Dog you win their hearts and unite them behind your cause, improving your National Unity.

Not one step bark: Your ND can be placed in a province where a defensive battle is taking place and will prevent units from retreating by growling threateningly at any unit attempting it.

Fetch Claim: If you are simply throwing sticks for your National Dog to fetch by the border to another country it is hardly your fault if one accidentally crosses the border and your ND follows it. However, any territory where your ND stands is sovereign land of your nation, resulting in a valid cause for war to retake it.

Ruff and ready research: Assigning your ND to a particular tech screen results in a increased research speed in that field by barking at any scientists who appear to be slacking off.

Every nation has a unique National Dog, which grant a special bonus when not employed on the above missions, some examples include:
Germany - German Shepard Dog. Passive bonus: Schutzhund. Coups are less likely to succeed.

Britain - English Bulldog. Passive bonus: Nodding. The constant nodding of this Dog's head makes visiting ambassadors feel they are being agreed with. Their good mood results in a relations bonus.

France - French Poodle. Passive bonus: Fluffy. Has a fine, white coat.

USSR - Siberian Husky. Passive bonus: Anti-tank dogs. All units gain bonus Hard Attack.

Japan - Shiba Inu. Passive bonus: Coins. Greatly increases your income as cash appears from seemingly nowhere.

In order to ensure players feel a genuine connection to their National Dog we are taking extensive motion-capture footage of all dogs to be modelled so that they move and react in a realistic fashion ingame.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.paradoxplaza.com%2Fforum%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D105087%26amp%3Bd%3D1396352917&hash=b1da44b23d4b880e25fde7af14e12cf7aa64ac64)

Next week we'll talk about our DLC policy, but as a sneakpeak I can reveal that we noted the outcry after the previous diary revealed that Horses will not be tracked in HoI IV. While this initially surprised us, and we don't think it's for everyone, we are committed to listening to our fans, and so we are proud to announce that the HoI IV Horse Armour DLC will be available on release day!

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Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: celedhring on April 01, 2014, 07:34:59 AM
Not gonna beat the Cavalry Commander game from Matrix, sadly.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Ed Anger on April 01, 2014, 10:05:26 AM
I love cupcake dog.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on August 12, 2014, 09:42:13 AM
I'm not really sure what this is, but apparently signing up gets you maybe a free DLC? Site isn't very clear (/potentially is just a pyramidy type scheme). :D

http://www.heartsofiron4.com/r/tm1jo06j9d
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on August 12, 2014, 12:37:01 PM
Quote from: Tyr on February 09, 2014, 05:50:15 AM
Maybe some kind of jew numbers ticker and the German player has to kill as many as possible before they go down. Oh how fun. :w00t:

I've always advocated the inclusion of a POP system in new HoI titles. There are so many things it could model.

Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: PRC on October 10, 2014, 11:53:45 AM
Here is a developer diary focusing on Naval Combat, always a contentious HoI subject.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/content.php?2013-Hearts-of-Iron-IV-Developer-Diary-10-Naval-Combat

Quote


Hearts of Iron IV - Developer Diary 10 - Naval Combat
by podcat
Published on 10-10-2014 15:27

Hi everyone! It's time to start talking about how the naval aspects of the game are changing with Hearts of Iron IV. There are a lot of aspects of naval gameplay, so we will be splitting this up in several diaries. Strategic warfare and details on missions will be in later diaries. This one will focus on direct combat and the general idea.

We had a few goals when designing naval mechanics for HOI4. We wanted it to both be able to handle the case of German surface raider ships relying on firepower and speed to tie up a large portion of the royal navy with a few ships like what happened early on in the war and the massive naval battles of the pacific between Japan and USA. We also wanted different ship types to be able to interact with each other and not make, say, convoy raiding a completely separate system.

What makes naval action so different from land is that the position of everything is not precisely known. So just because you know there is a German ship in a sea zone doesn't mean you can find it before it leaves.

To solve all this ships use both strategic areas (see Diary 7) and exact province locations. A task force of ships can have missions in a strategic sea area and this can cause events to happen. A naval event can be fleets coming into contact, or a raider or submarine finding enemy convoys. Once one of these happen the location is displayed on the map as a combat. Each mission (we'll talk more about these in a future diary about strategic warfare) controls how the naval task force is spread out. So for example if you set your task force to patrol an area they will spread out as much as possible increasing chance of finding an enemy, but because they are spread out only a smaller part of the fleet will actually make initial contact with the enemy. If you set up your task force on more of a search & destroy mission they will stick together and be much less likely to find lone ships, but when they do run into something most ships will be there for the initial confrontation. Typically this is something you'll want if you are fighting a large enemy fleet. Notice how I said initial contact, that's because naval battles can be longer affairs of positioning. Lets look at a picture:

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The area in the middle is the active combat area with the ships distance to the center showing their relative distance. To each side is an area showing part of the enemy navy on the way. Depending on your intel you may or may not know what is coming (or just that *something* is coming) there. As an example from history here take a German fast heavy cruiser like the Admiral Graf Spee, hunting British shipping early on in the war. The British will be hunting for it in turn, but are spread out (so they can actually find it) so it will actually only face a smaller part of the royal navy at a time. Having strong armament and speed means that it may be spotted by a British cruiser with a larger fleet trying to get to the location of the battle to give support and the Graf Spee has a chance to take out that cruiser and get away before the rest arrive, which if it happens means they need to locate it again. This should hopefully mean that even small technically advanced navies have a place in the game.

So what about more even combat, like shown in the picture above? When large fleets meet the game will divides them up in groups of ships that will exchange fire because they may enter the battle from different directions and at different times depending on spread etc. Each of these groups is optimally one or more capital ship with a decent ratio of screen ships like cruisers and destroyers. Screens are very important because they defend the larger ships from enemy small ships that can carry torpedoes. Torpedoes have lower hit chance but when they hit they do a ton of damage on large ships. We have tried to make sure each ship type has a role to play in the battle, so for example destroyers are cheap screens that can evade large caliber fire, add anti-air capabilities and let you detect and neutralize submarines. Cruisers are good at at taking out other screens and carry torpedoes making them dangerous to capital ships if they get close enough. Heavy cruisers, Battlecrusiers and Battleships can take a lot of hits and carry a lot of firepower and Super Heavy Battleships add Cool and Flair to your fleet Carriers work like a mobile air field and can carry a variety of carrier-capable planes to project damage across the battlefield. Finally Submarines are good at destroying convoys, but can also fill a role in regular fleet combat should the enemy be low on submarine detection. A submarine starts out hidden and is either spotted if it gets too close to a destroyer or after firing a torpedo after which it will try to escape. It won't be an effective weapon against an enemy with a proper fleet, but unescorted capital ships won't have much defense. Again, another thing in favor of trying to develop a balanced fleet rather than specializing.



Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Alcibiades on October 10, 2014, 02:31:17 PM
Looks really interesting, will probably suck, but looks good.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josquius on October 10, 2014, 04:31:08 PM
I just dont see how that small scale battle stuff will gel with the greater a year in 30 mins game
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: PRC on November 07, 2014, 02:03:59 PM
New Dev Diary for HoI4:

Quote
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/content.php?2039-Hearts-of-Iron-IV-Developer-Diary-11-Map-Graphics&s=6774ab56a340a6b3ae22c5fa5def9034

Hearts of Iron IV - Developer Diary 11 - Map & Graphics
by larre
Published on 07-11-2014 17:08

Hello!

Welcome to the art portion of Hearts of iron 4(HOI4) dev diary series. This diary will focus on the visual aesthetics of the game and sexy graphic-stuff.
My name is Joakim Larsen and Im a 3D artist working with the HOI4 team on giving players of HOI4 the most visual pleasure out of the game.

Today we are happy to show some of the work we have done on the graphic side of HOI4.

For this dev diary, please ignore borders and country colors. Focus instead on the visual look of the images we will show. Borders, country colors are not final and are subject for change (Podcat: I know he says that, but I also know you all can't resists ).

When we first started out working on HOI4 we knew that we wanted a realistic feel for the game (realistic in a way that its okay having a 5km tall man standing in your province).

We felt that a realistic style would match the game and setting, World war 2 isn't childsplay(right?). Therefore instead of going for example a more stylized handpainted look we have gone with a realistic rendered style meant to mimic reality.
For this we have improved our lighting and shading substantially. Instead of just having texture channel control the specular of the item, we now have both glossiness, reflectivity and metallness (yes thats an actual word). We also use HDR, all adding up to giving a more physically correct look, and adding to the feeling of realism.

We also knew that we wanted to do alot better than Hearts of Iron 3(HOI3).

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Say what you want, sure it has its charm - but I hope I wont need to have this argument after this dev diary.

With doing a world map that allows the player to be at a lot of different distances and anywhere in the whole world comes a lot of challenges.
Main ones are: How do we make the game look and play fantastic everywhere and how do we make the game look and feel different and interesting in various areas of the world meanwhile staying true to the real worlds map and making sure gameplay works?

The map has been through a lot of iterations, changes, paintovers and hard work to get to this point and we are now very happy to show it in more detail.

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Gradient borders

In all our games we have tried to make the game look as pretty as possible, this is what is shown in screenshot and trailers.
Unfortunately, this is not how players choose to play, the info you need is not clear enough in terrain map mode, so political map mode is the only choice.

So in HoI4 we finally had the opportunity to try a solution we have had in mind for a while. Have a terrain map mode, with large fading gradient borders. Along with having political map mode fade in as you zoom out.

This way we can have the cake and eat it. You can clearly see countries territories when you zoom out. And when you zoom in, you can still clearly see the country border, while at the same time clearly seeing the terrain.

We have built a system that enables us to control the lighting and mood depending on where you are in the world. Depending on what zoom distance you are at, and what season your looking at, what time of day it is and if you are far out on the sea.
In short the desert feels warm, Europe feels green and winter feels cold.

We think this will make the world more believable and varied and that its a really nice visual flavour.

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Terrain types

In HOI4 each terrain-type will have different penalties or advantages therefore its vital that it is crystal clear to the player so that you can see what terrain type a area has.

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Weather

Weather has a big impact on gameplay but was in HOI3 hidden away in a separate mapmode which you quite often did not look at. HOI4 now displays weather directly on the map depending on zoom distance, to make it instantly clear what is going on. We will have another diary later focused on all the gameplay aspects of weather, but we simulate rain/storms, snow/blizzard, mud as well as sand storms currently.

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Day and night cycle

Hearts of Iron has always had day and night, and the time of day matters. This has however not been very clear. Very early on we added night and day cycle and loved it instantly.

This feature has meant trouble for art at every turn, but we still think it adds a lot to the game, both aesteaticlly and gameplay wise.
During the nights city's light up, and everything get a more night-look.

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Fog of war

To show the player what's visible and not we have fog of war(FOW) so its visually clear for the player what's visible and not.
We have chosen to go with a foggy-cloud FOW that shows mountaintops, hills and trees rather than darkening like in EU4 so that it isnt confused with night/shade. This looks quite nice and fills its purpose.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.paradoxplaza.com%2Fforum%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D118250%26amp%3Bd%3D1415372893&hash=edc0b1885468a7d44b5d7e6fe56ee523db55b314)

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Characters and tanks

With HOI4 we wanted to really make the characters and tanks be as good as possible since they are key gameplay markers on the map.
We start with making a high resolution polygon model of the character. When that model is as good as its get we start doing a low resolution model.

Then we use various methods of transferring the details from the high resolution model to the low resolution model, making them indistinguishable with the use of normalmaps.

That starts off the texturing process where we give each area texture and makes the model pretty.

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Thats all for this time!

Hope you like what you see. We are proud of alot of things with the map and alot cant really be told or shown in screenshots - you have to see it for yourself to really enjoy it.

Feel free to leave any comments and I'll read them. (Podcat: Please be gentle he is only an artist).

Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Norgy on November 07, 2014, 02:28:54 PM
Map barely sucks.  :mad:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on November 07, 2014, 02:42:56 PM
You have to research blackouts I see.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Norgy on November 08, 2014, 02:00:27 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 07, 2014, 02:42:56 PM
You have to research blackouts I see.

I think they are a free tech for the Irish.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Agelastus on November 08, 2014, 02:39:05 PM
I could very easily be wrong, but my impression of both the Egypt and Paris nighttime screenshots is that Paradox have taken a modern satellite image for the background and have either forgotten to, or have not yet, modified it to reflect more 1940s light levels. Certainly I wouldn't have thought Egypt would have been electrified enough to produce that much light circa 1940.

Given Paradox included Lake Volta on the original HOI3 map I would not be surprised if they've simply not considered the difference 70+ years make. :glare:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on November 08, 2014, 09:34:41 PM
Cool story, bro.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Valmy on November 08, 2014, 11:15:49 PM
I wish they would just make a HoI game that had a WWI scenario instead me having to keep waiting for modders to do it for each version. 
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on January 16, 2015, 09:47:01 AM
I hadn't realized but apparently this was supposed to come out soon. They've now delayed it till Q2.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Agelastus on January 16, 2015, 11:01:28 AM
I wonder if they'll actually fix some of the spelling mistakes in the OoBs this time - such as the ones in the British OoB that have been present since HOI2 IIRC ("10rd Destroyer Flotilla", "Galathea" etc.) :hmm:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on January 16, 2015, 11:03:36 AM
You really are on about the minor details. :D
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: crazy canuck on January 16, 2015, 11:14:11 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on January 16, 2015, 11:01:28 AM
I wonder if they'll actually fix some of the spelling mistakes in the OoBs this time - such as the ones in the British OoB that have been present since HOI2 IIRC ("10rd Destroyer Flotilla", "Galathea" etc.) :hmm:

I 2rd that.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Agelastus on January 16, 2015, 11:35:10 AM
Quote from: garbon on January 16, 2015, 11:03:36 AM
You really are on about the minor details. :D

Spelling mistakes that have survived ten years*, two games, multiple expansions, and a couple of dozen patches? One would think someone would have fixed this "minor detail" in that period of time - especially as, for example, "Galathea" is spelt correctly in the unit names files; it's just wrong in the OoBs.

It annoys me, OK? :P

*And where the hell have those ten years gone! January 4th was apparently the tenth anniversary of the release of HOI2. :o
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on January 16, 2015, 11:37:17 AM
I'm not saying they shouldn't fix it - just that you knowing you had this spelling nitpick and then that nitpick about incorrect historical widespread availability of electric lighting. :P :hug:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on April 14, 2015, 07:14:10 AM
Only just saw the dev diary on the naval system: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hearts-of-iron-iv-dd-15-on-the-high-seas.850123/

That's a change that might actually fix the crappy naval warfare of HoI1-3:

QuoteAreas & Missions
Just like the strategic air war navies spend most of their time on missions in strategic areas, but are also able to move province by province. When in a strategic area each fleet has a value indicating how spread out it is. In general a more spread out fleet can cover more area and have a higher chance of finding the enemy, but will take time to concentrate its forces and bring them all to bear. Things like how fast fleets of a certain composition can converge and how well they can search in an area is controlled in large part from Naval Doctrines. We'll cover those in detail in a future diary, but as an example if you pick the Trade Interdiction doctrine you can unlock Wolfpack tactics which will make sure your subs find more targets and can all get together and strike more often.

There are several missions available:
Patrol - Focus on finding the enemy as efficiently and as spread out as possible
Search & Destroy - Much like Patrol but less efficient at searching while keeping the fleet together more. Suitable for trying to force large fleet vs fleet battles, say like the Battle of Midway.
Convoy Raiding - Focus on raiding convoys and avoid engaging warships.
Convoy Escort - Protect any convoys in an area from raiders.
Invasion - used to control large scale land invasions. We'll cover this in later diaries.
Hold - Not really a mission, but can be useful for ships like Carriers that you want to just position like a floating airfield.

When fleets find each other or convoys of the enemy naval combats will trigger. Depending on how spread out the fleet is, doctrines and luck its going to be a smaller part of the fleet that makes initial contact. Naval battles in HOI4 can simulate longer affairs where ships join over time as the rest of the fleet rushes to help.

Strategic warfare
While you need to actually directly conquer an enemy to beat them, doing so after they are weakened is always better and easier. Production in HOI4 requires resources that gets convoyed from trade, or from overseas territory so a good way of weakening an enemy is to hurt their ability to produce equipment and reinforce their armies using convoy raiders. In HOI3 it never really felt like submarine warfare had enough impact and we want to fix that in HOI4 and force nations to have to spend resources to counter it. The way the strategic area mission system works also allow you to use surface raiders, like how Germany historically used its few heavy cruisers to tie up and frighten the British navy.

Convoys are extremely important and transport both replacement equipment to oversea battlefields, supplies and resources so hurting them will have a large effect, sunk convoys can't be instantly replaced either so active defense is necessary, you cant just try to outproduce the enemy's sinking. Lend lease of equipment and tanks to allies also use convoys and this material can all be lost to the bottom of the ocean when faced with an efficient submarine net.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on October 23, 2015, 03:33:10 AM
Beta applications now open: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads%2Fhearts-of-iron-4-beta-signup.888039%2F
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on March 16, 2016, 12:07:36 PM
Will finally be released on D Day 6th June
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Norgy on March 16, 2016, 12:44:22 PM
The amount of time P'dox has spent on it in development may mean it isn't going to be superbugged from release.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Alcibiades on March 16, 2016, 11:09:47 PM
Very long development, will get it.. Hope it's good.  :weep:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: jimmy olsen on March 17, 2016, 02:13:14 AM
I hope the inevitible expansion is of WWI rather than the Cold War going hot. Seems much more viable given how paradox games work than a nuclear slugfest.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Jaron on March 17, 2016, 03:04:46 AM
Doing this instead of Vic 3....crap.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on March 17, 2016, 03:18:45 AM
Well one of them brings in the dollars and one does not...
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on May 15, 2016, 06:23:22 PM
Less than a month till release. Wonder if it was wise to release this so soon after Stellaris?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on May 15, 2016, 10:34:06 PM
Quote from: Josephus on May 15, 2016, 06:23:22 PM
Less than a month till release. Wonder if it was wise to release this so soon after Stellaris?

That does seem strange.  I don't know if I've ever heard of a developer releasing two of their games so close together like this. 
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Phillip V on May 15, 2016, 11:15:27 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on May 15, 2016, 10:34:06 PM
Quote from: Josephus on May 15, 2016, 06:23:22 PM
Less than a month till release. Wonder if it was wise to release this so soon after Stellaris?

That does seem strange.  I don't know if I've ever heard of a developer releasing two of their games so close together like this. 

Confident Paradox
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on May 15, 2016, 11:38:53 PM
HoI IV's been delayed over a year.  I think at that point it was bound to either overlap the release of another game or push another game further back.  So they went with the overlap.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on May 17, 2016, 12:22:54 PM
Preordering is available.  Like with Stellaris, there are different levels. Might go for the full field marshall level.

:blush:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on May 17, 2016, 12:55:59 PM
I didn't really play HoI3 at all, but I played the hell out of HoI2. Maybe I should get this. I am a bit burnt out on EU4, Stellaris as of now doesn't seem to offer that much replay value, so why not my old favorite...? Hmm.

The Field Marshal pack might be the one I go for as well. Getting the first two DLCs + content packs for 40 Euro extra is roughly what they would cost anyway unless I wait a long while until they are on sale...
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on May 17, 2016, 01:13:21 PM
good to know, I've got a coupon lying around somewhere :)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Berkut on May 17, 2016, 06:48:36 PM
After HOI3, this is not getting a pre-order from me.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Habbaku on May 17, 2016, 07:23:38 PM
:yes:  I will buy it some time after they release the first four DLCs and I can get it 75% off.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: celedhring on May 18, 2016, 06:50:24 AM
I guess I will get it down the line, it's just that after 4 iterations it really feels old hat. EUIV at least covers such a long period that there's lots of replay value. But HoI is so focused on such a particular conflict that I really don't feel what yet another iteration will do for me. Winning the war as any of the major powers? Already done. Playing both sides of the Spanish Civil war and allying with Germany/Allies? Already done. Playing as Poland and surviving the onslaught? Done too. Playing as a South American country and bring the war there? Done too. Heck, I have even played as Haiti. I don't feel like HoI4 has anything to offer to me, besides touched up mechanics.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Solmyr on May 18, 2016, 07:30:20 AM
I will get it in three years when it's finished. :P
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on May 18, 2016, 09:14:25 AM
Quote from: Berkut on May 17, 2016, 06:48:36 PM
After HOI3, this is not getting a pre-order from me.

In which sequence do you think HoI games should be released? :blink:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on May 18, 2016, 11:18:10 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on May 18, 2016, 07:30:20 AM
I will get it in three years when it's finished. :P

I'll hold you to that  :lol:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on May 30, 2016, 10:05:02 AM
Ok, you guys may not seem so excited, but I've been since I started this thread several years ago.

I pre-ordered a game for the first time ever.  :D
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on May 30, 2016, 11:14:36 AM
Sad you chose this game to give up your virginity. :(
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on May 30, 2016, 01:04:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 30, 2016, 11:14:36 AM
Sad you chose this game to give up your virginity. :(

We shall see...the fat girl may end up hot in a few years
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on June 01, 2016, 04:58:08 PM
Field Marshal edition pre-ordered  :cool:

I shall probably play the Soviet Union for my first game, it is usually pretty forgiving when one is cocking things up.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 01, 2016, 05:25:37 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 01, 2016, 04:58:08 PM
I shall probably play the Soviet Union for my first game, it is usually pretty forgiving when one is cocking things up.
:yes:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Frussia-ic.com%2Fimg%2Fculture_art%2Fvoroshilov_01.jpg&hash=1c755205c63f9f30c6160ecc52d088d48ce85214)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on June 04, 2016, 02:04:05 AM
To preorder or not to preorder, that's the question. If this is a turd, I would be annoyed.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 04, 2016, 04:37:01 AM
So the Let's Plays must look pretty good if people are preordering after the HoI 3 debacle?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on June 04, 2016, 04:37:51 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 04, 2016, 04:37:01 AM
So the Let's Plays must look pretty good if people are preordering after the HoI 3 debacle?

Or people are suckers.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on June 04, 2016, 06:21:47 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 04, 2016, 04:37:51 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 04, 2016, 04:37:01 AM
So the Let's Plays must look pretty good if people are preordering after the HoI 3 debacle?

Or people are suckers.

Can they count?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 04, 2016, 07:24:25 AM
I think Pdox is going out of its way to NOT make HOI III, so we'll see.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: crazy canuck on June 04, 2016, 08:09:11 AM
HOI 3 scared me off enough to not preorder.  But if people report back that it is good then I will get it.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 05, 2016, 11:46:48 AM
Anyone watching quill18's series?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiqAAGj79hc&list=PLs3acGYgI1-stmmaOdyLR1FS1hvUIflCL
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on June 05, 2016, 12:57:44 PM
I've looked into a handful of Let's Plays and still can't say whether this is a good or not. I loved HoI2, so I would like this to be good.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 05, 2016, 07:44:33 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 05, 2016, 11:46:48 AM
Anyone watching quill18's series?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiqAAGj79hc&list=PLs3acGYgI1-stmmaOdyLR1FS1hvUIflCL

I watched the first three.

Not sure what to think. Seems like they definately went the other way of HOIIII by removing as much micro management as possible, but it almost seems a bit arcady to me now. Seems like you don't even need transport ships anymore.

On the forum there's much fear of a really weak AI being discussed. Seems like most you tubers are able to win on first go. I'm downloading tomorrow, we shall see.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on June 05, 2016, 11:57:48 PM
The AI does look weak. On the other hand it will probably get stronger as time passes and may not be so weak if one avoids gamey exploits.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on June 06, 2016, 11:33:50 AM
I launched the game! :w00t:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on June 06, 2016, 12:56:19 PM
Well, is it any good?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on June 06, 2016, 01:22:39 PM
I just bought it and it's downloading now WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on June 06, 2016, 01:27:18 PM
I just started a game as Sweden. Can't say how overpowered it is yet.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 06, 2016, 01:27:18 PM
I just started a game as Sweden. Can't say how overpowered it is yet.

'Ball Bearing Power Diplomacy Event: Germany made Swedish puppet'
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on June 06, 2016, 02:48:53 PM
Been playing a couple of hours, the game is very accessible and rather pretty (and stable so far). I'm spending most of my time making choices that I find interesting.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on June 06, 2016, 02:56:35 PM
just played through the tutorial. Pretty nice. In true Italian fashion those Ethiopians didn't go down that easily.

-The tutorial itself was a bit light on the explaining but the tooltips seem decent enough, much will depend on it's linkage to wiki and how uptodate the info there is (and stays).
-Research has been brought back to more HOI2-level of manageability (but we knew that already). I'm sure modders will expand it swiftly so we can finally research Hitler's 1944 razor.
-Production is nice. set up a line and let it rip (or underperform :p), or you can micromanage it bit more. The limited amount of stuff to be built in a province should help prevent factory-spam.
-Messing around with your government might be fun, plenty of options as far as I could tell.

Pretty smooth gameplay. Barely scratched the surface in any case.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 06, 2016, 03:22:05 PM
Looking forward to going home and downloading htis....alas my stupid co-workers picked today to throw me a surprise 50th birthday party. :mad:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Barrister on June 06, 2016, 03:31:01 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 06, 2016, 03:22:05 PM
Looking forward to going home and downloading htis....alas my stupid co-workers picked today to throw me a surprise 50th birthday party. :mad:

OLD!

HB man. :hug:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on June 06, 2016, 03:56:42 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2016, 01:31:15 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 06, 2016, 01:27:18 PM
I just started a game as Sweden. Can't say how overpowered it is yet.

'Ball Bearing Power Diplomacy Event: Germany made Swedish puppet'

Raoul Wallenberg Takes Command: 6 million soldiers added to Swedish manpower pool.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on June 06, 2016, 05:03:11 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 06, 2016, 03:22:05 PM
Looking forward to going home and downloading htis....alas my stupid co-workers picked today to throw me a surprise 50th birthday party. :mad:

Happy birthday  :)

For future reference: set up Chrome Remote Desktop (or some other similar software), remote in and start the DL from work or wherever you are.  That way it'll be ready to go for you when you get home/done partying/etc.

Alternatively just play at work like I'm doing.  :ph34r:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Drakken on June 06, 2016, 05:53:15 PM
So how is the Pacific War going in HOI4? In HOI3 the Americans could ignore the Pacific islands and go straight for the Islands or East Asia.  :yucky:

Has it changed?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: chipwich on June 06, 2016, 07:05:24 PM
How do I invade Malta as Italy? the mission tool tip says I need intel, but I have a bit fleet right next door!
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 06, 2016, 07:32:18 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 06, 2016, 03:31:01 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 06, 2016, 03:22:05 PM
Looking forward to going home and downloading htis....alas my stupid co-workers picked today to throw me a surprise 50th birthday party. :mad:

OLD!

HB man. :hug:

My actual birthday is not for another week...but thanks  :cheers:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 06, 2016, 07:32:55 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on June 06, 2016, 05:03:11 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 06, 2016, 03:22:05 PM
Looking forward to going home and downloading htis....alas my stupid co-workers picked today to throw me a surprise 50th birthday party. :mad:

Happy birthday  :)

For future reference: set up Chrome Remote Desktop (or some other similar software), remote in and start the DL from work or wherever you are.  That way it'll be ready to go for you when you get home/done partying/etc.

Alternatively just play at work like I'm doing.  :ph34r:

Aargh...such an old man, I never even thought about that!!
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: HVC on June 06, 2016, 07:51:04 PM
I started downloading Stellaris through my phone by logging  into steam so it's even easier then that. And happy ...prelated? Birthday!
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on June 06, 2016, 08:06:46 PM
Is there a way to add newly arriving divisions (shipped from Italy to Albania) to the army that is currently in the area aside from removing/re-adding the army?

The first Italian carrier will be completed in 6 months, and I've already shifted to the carrier doctrine line.  I'm sure THAT will go well.  Day 1 of the Yugoslavian war: First Italian carrier sunk. 

E: oh shit I should probably build planes for it. DOH
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 06, 2016, 08:59:36 PM
Tutorial is fine but a lot of it is "RTFW" (read the fuckin wiki). I wish there was a good old fashioned manual. I get the basics so far, but there's a lot i'm missing. My tutorial invasion of Ethiopia went well for a while but then for some reason my troops stopped and I had to manually select and move them to Addis Ababa. Not sure why.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 07, 2016, 01:15:11 AM
Played as Sweden.  Germany DOWed me, captured Denmark, and then attempted to attack me across the strait.  And attempted again.  And again.  And again.  After three years, I got bored.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 07, 2016, 08:48:09 AM
Played through a couple of years as Germany last night.  Took me about an hour to get the initial set up down going in cold.  I think I could knock it out now in 10-20 minutes.  Compare that to HOI 3 where after several play throughs it still took 2+ hours to get everything set up for a country.  So that's good.

Fiddling with production lines is surprisingly fun.  Sending volunteers to the Spanish Civil War is pretty neat too, although it already shows how inept the AI is.  I raced to Madrid, took it without difficulty and performed a couple encirclements with 2 divisions.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 07, 2016, 08:51:46 AM
Yeah, AI is brain-dead, that much is already clear.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 07, 2016, 09:43:33 AM
Yeah, nuff said about the AI the better.
On another note, even though technically, this game is simpler, theres just so much going on, it is hard to get a grip on it (and I've played a grand total of like one hour :lol:). It's interface and set up is different than most other Pdox games before it.

I agree with this bit from this reviewer:

So if you're tempted by the idea of HoIIV, you need to know this. Simply learning this game's absolute basics, like equipping divisions of infantry with guns and sending them somewhere to fight, is an ordeal. Getting further than that is going to take some serious work.

http://kotaku.com/hearts-of-iron-iv-the-kotaku-review-1780258434
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on June 07, 2016, 09:55:45 AM
The AI seems to be very conservative, resting its forces a lot, waiting for cumbersome battle plans to max out and so on. That is not necessarily bad (it is what WW2 France would do) but it can be too easily exploited by the human player making a dash for Madrid or whatever.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 07, 2016, 02:11:04 PM
In my second game as Brazil, my offense against Venezuela stalled, because I vastly underestimated their army size.  They captured a couple of my provinces, and then I dug in, being numerically overwhelmed by about 2:1.  Thankfully, Venezuelans were cooperative enough to wait for more than a year while I was crash-building and researching tactical bombers and all the doctrines.  They helped quite a bit when they finally came online, and Venezuela was no more.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Valmy on June 07, 2016, 02:16:18 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on June 07, 2016, 09:55:45 AM
That is not necessarily bad (it is what WW2 France would do)

These strike me as contradictory statements :P

Maurice Gamelin should not be the standard for anything but gross incompetence.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on June 07, 2016, 05:15:14 PM
Why do some of my army divisions insist on suddenly moving back to the old country without any apparent rhyme or reason?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 07, 2016, 05:55:52 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 07, 2016, 05:15:14 PM
Why do some of my army divisions insist on suddenly moving back to the old country without any apparent rhyme or reason?
You need add barrier troops to the unit template.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 07, 2016, 06:15:48 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 07, 2016, 05:15:14 PM
Why do some of my army divisions insist on suddenly moving back to the old country without any apparent rhyme or reason?

Holidays? :D
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Solmyr on June 08, 2016, 08:07:56 AM
It's on sale on Wingamestore for $29.30. Worth it?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 08, 2016, 08:45:11 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on June 08, 2016, 08:07:56 AM
It's on sale on Wingamestore for $29.30. Worth it?

I like it so far.  Land combat is about the same as HOI 3 except with easier controls for fronts/plans.  The AI is moronic, but it is easy to handicap yourself and use the same AI to command your troops.  As I mentioned above factory management is pretty interesting.  Air management is much improved from HOI 3 with assigning aircraft to missions in large areas.  At the start of the general war my western fighters got completely shredded in the first month, and the interface made it obvious and exciting to have such a problem.

I haven't dug into naval matters much.  I tried sending out my subs to do convoy raiding but I couldn't really tell if they were doing much.  I don't think I was doing it quite right.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 08, 2016, 08:46:51 AM
I can't make heads or tails of naval combat either.  Can't even figure out whether they sunk anyone or not.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 08, 2016, 08:53:40 AM
Sounds like battles across the straits are a common issues.  They never ever conclude, and stupid AI will drop everything to try anyway, and put all their armies on one end of the strait.  Not just bad, game-breaking.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on June 08, 2016, 11:28:51 AM
It freaks me out that planes keep moving while the game is paused.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 08, 2016, 11:30:25 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 08, 2016, 11:28:51 AM
It freaks me out that planes keep moving while the game is paused.
They can't stay in the air without moving.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on June 08, 2016, 11:32:52 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 08, 2016, 11:30:25 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 08, 2016, 11:28:51 AM
It freaks me out that planes keep moving while the game is paused.
They can't stay in the air without moving.

Yeah OK.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on June 08, 2016, 11:58:52 AM
Quote from: frunk on June 08, 2016, 08:45:11 AM
The AI is moronic, but it is easy to handicap yourself and use the same AI to command your troops.

I was trying to do this, but it was being so dumbass that I had to take over.  "NO WHAT ARE YOU DOING OMG STOP"
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 08, 2016, 12:04:19 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on June 08, 2016, 11:58:52 AM
I was trying to do this, but it was being so dumbass that I had to take over.  "NO WHAT ARE YOU DOING OMG STOP"

  :D I pretend that all my leaders are early Civil War Union generals.  "Damn you Burnside!"
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on June 08, 2016, 12:32:10 PM
 :lol: That's a good way of looking at these guys.  They don't have the awesome uh....Burnstache? Ambrose had goin on though.  I refuse to just call that "sideburns."
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 08, 2016, 12:48:45 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 08, 2016, 11:28:51 AM
It freaks me out that planes keep moving while the game is paused.

They have to keep moving, or they'll fall from the sky.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on June 08, 2016, 01:08:48 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 08, 2016, 12:48:45 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 08, 2016, 11:28:51 AM
It freaks me out that planes keep moving while the game is paused.

They have to keep moving, or they'll fall from the sky.

OK already! (((Jesus)))!!
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: mongers on June 08, 2016, 01:43:36 PM
So you people are still buying Paradox games.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Liep on June 08, 2016, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: mongers on June 08, 2016, 01:43:36 PM
So you people are still buying Paradox games.  :hmm:

I've moved on to "Buying Paradox games/dlc that are on sale". Unless it's Victoria 3, I'll buy the shit out of that game.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Solmyr on June 08, 2016, 02:11:12 PM
Quote from: mongers on June 08, 2016, 01:43:36 PM
So you people are still buying Paradox games.  :hmm:

That's racist.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on June 08, 2016, 02:13:16 PM
Quote from: Liep on June 08, 2016, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: mongers on June 08, 2016, 01:43:36 PM
So you people are still buying Paradox games.  :hmm:

I've moved on to "Buying Paradox games/dlc that are on sale". Unless it's Victoria 3, I'll buy the shit out of that game.

it's called fertilizer there!
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 08, 2016, 02:21:31 PM
Quote from: Liep on June 08, 2016, 02:09:24 PM
Quote from: mongers on June 08, 2016, 01:43:36 PM
So you people are still buying Paradox games.  :hmm:

I've moved on to "Buying Paradox games/dlc that are on sale". Unless it's Victoria 3, I'll buy the shit out of that game.
:yes: As flawed as Vicky 2 is, with the utterly shit interface only the beginning of it, it does have a strange pull on me.  I haven't played EU4 in at least a year, but Vicky 2 will reliably waste a weekend day if I fire it up.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 08, 2016, 02:30:29 PM
So there seems to be a nasty bug WAD issue with troops walking freely in other countries even if they don't have access. For instance,  if Japan is at war with sweden, and so is Russia, then Japan can move its troops through Russia. Which means a careful Japanese player can move his troops to the gates of Moscow and then DOW Russia.

For those who can access Paradox

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/why-are-soviets-walking-through-my-territory.943807/
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on June 08, 2016, 02:34:23 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 08, 2016, 02:30:29 PM
So there seems to be a nasty bug WAD issue with troops walking freely in other countries even if they don't have access. For instance,  if Japan is at war with sweden, and so is Russia, then Japan can move its troops through Russia. Which means a careful Japanese player can move his troops to the gates of Moscow and then DOW Russia.

For those who can access Paradox

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/why-are-soviets-walking-through-my-territory.943807/

Your thread has a link to a thread (which I can't see as I don't have the game) which seems to suggest that someone at p'dox noted it as part of the design.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 08, 2016, 02:43:54 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 08, 2016, 02:34:23 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 08, 2016, 02:30:29 PM
So there seems to be a nasty bug WAD issue with troops walking freely in other countries even if they don't have access. For instance,  if Japan is at war with sweden, and so is Russia, then Japan can move its troops through Russia. Which means a careful Japanese player can move his troops to the gates of Moscow and then DOW Russia.

For those who can access Paradox

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/why-are-soviets-walking-through-my-territory.943807/

Your thread has a link to a thread (which I can't see as I don't have the game) which seems to suggest that someone at p'dox noted it as part of the design.

yes. It's WAD.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 08, 2016, 02:45:54 PM
You may be able to read this:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-guide-how-to-encircle-the-entire-german-army-in-the-east-at-the-onset-of-war.944254/
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on June 08, 2016, 03:19:01 PM
I wonder why they didn't do as in other games and say you can't declare war if you already have troops in the enemy country?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 08, 2016, 03:41:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 08, 2016, 03:19:01 PM
I wonder why they didn't do as in other games and say you can't declare war if you already have troops in the enemy country?
How realistic would that be?  If in real life Germany declared war on Finland at the same time as Soviets did, and transferred a couple of millions of its troops to the outskirts of Moscow under automatic military access, would they really just not be able to do anything to Russians there and then regardless of how much they willed it?  Seems to be too big of a break in suspension of disbelief to me.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 08, 2016, 04:05:42 PM
yeah, haven't played enough to comment. Not sure why this was included in the design though. Seems rather strange. Even if you couldn't DOW, seems odd that you can just waltz through another nation without access.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Maladict on June 09, 2016, 03:17:35 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 08, 2016, 03:41:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 08, 2016, 03:19:01 PM
I wonder why they didn't do as in other games and say you can't declare war if you already have troops in the enemy country?
How realistic would that be?  If in real life Germany declared war on Finland at the same time as Soviets did, and transferred a couple of millions of its troops to the outskirts of Moscow under automatic military access, would they really just not be able to do anything to Russians there and then regardless of how much they willed it?  Seems to be too big of a break in suspension of disbelief to me.

Why would Germany have access to Russian territory in the first place? Unless they're allied, in which case they shouldn't be able to declare war.
Suspension of disbelief would already be broken by millions of Germans being allowed near Moscow for a war against Finland.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 09, 2016, 09:21:35 AM
Quote from: Maladict on June 09, 2016, 03:17:35 AM
Suspension of disbelief would already be broken by millions of Germans being allowed near Moscow for a war against Finland.
They can't all fit near the Finnish border.  :whistle:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 09, 2016, 09:25:40 AM
But, seriously, I'm about to put this game away and wait for a patch.  There are just a bit too many game-breaking bugs or design decisions at the moment.  Having no control over your borders, having clusterfuck borders after some countries capitulate, an AI that just can't figure out how to attack across the straits, it's just so many things that are obviously not working right.  My guess is that this game would be a lot more finished if D-Day happened on September 6.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on June 09, 2016, 10:29:20 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 09, 2016, 09:25:40 AM
But, seriously, I'm about to put this game away and wait for a patch.  There are just a bit too many game-breaking bugs or design decisions at the moment.  Having no control over your borders, having clusterfuck borders after some countries capitulate, an AI that just can't figure out how to attack across the straits, it's just so many things that are obviously not working right.  My guess is that this game would be a lot more finished if D-Day happened on September 6.
First Paradox game then?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 09, 2016, 10:33:44 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on June 09, 2016, 10:29:20 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 09, 2016, 09:25:40 AM
But, seriously, I'm about to put this game away and wait for a patch.  There are just a bit too many game-breaking bugs or design decisions at the moment.  Having no control over your borders, having clusterfuck borders after some countries capitulate, an AI that just can't figure out how to attack across the straits, it's just so many things that are obviously not working right.  My guess is that this game would be a lot more finished if D-Day happened on September 6.
First Paradox game then?
I think Paradox as of late has actually cleaned up their act when it comes to game releases, and no longer released games in their alpha or beta stage.  But with HOI IV, and from what it sounds like, Stellaris, they took a big step back.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on June 09, 2016, 10:35:25 AM
"Waah! I want a finished product! Waah!" :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Valmy on June 09, 2016, 10:43:45 AM
So...does the naval combat suck?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 09, 2016, 10:48:54 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 09, 2016, 10:43:45 AM
So...does the naval combat suck?

hard to tell because it's really hard to figure out what's going on in naval combat
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Barrister on June 09, 2016, 10:51:46 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 09, 2016, 10:33:44 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on June 09, 2016, 10:29:20 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 09, 2016, 09:25:40 AM
But, seriously, I'm about to put this game away and wait for a patch.  There are just a bit too many game-breaking bugs or design decisions at the moment.  Having no control over your borders, having clusterfuck borders after some countries capitulate, an AI that just can't figure out how to attack across the straits, it's just so many things that are obviously not working right.  My guess is that this game would be a lot more finished if D-Day happened on September 6.
First Paradox game then?
I think Paradox as of late has actually cleaned up their act when it comes to game releases, and no longer released games in their alpha or beta stage.  But with HOI IV, and from what it sounds like, Stellaris, they took a big step back.

Stellaris is eminently playable at release.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 09, 2016, 10:53:54 AM
For me so is HOI IV.  We'll see as I get further in, but it's lightyears better than any other HOI at release.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on June 09, 2016, 10:54:25 AM
Stellaris lacks a bit of content in the middle of the game, but it does not have game-breaking bugs or design decisions.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on June 09, 2016, 11:23:56 AM
If you like counters with NATO symbols, these are nice: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=699668071&searchtext=counters

I also got this to go with it: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=698665197&searchtext=

Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on June 09, 2016, 11:30:44 AM
A naval battle report is needed.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: FunkMonk on June 09, 2016, 11:38:58 AM
So I bought this after having a weird cold and I stayed home from work for a couple days because I felt miserable. Figured, why the hell not? I need something to do and their last game, Stellaris, didn't have any real game-breaking bugs and despite having little actual content, seems a solid enough base for an interesting and varied 4X game. Money decently spent, if not exactly a bargain.

I've played Hearts of Iron 4 for many hours now. The first several were just coming to grips with all the new systems and the UI. I've played mostly the United States because I figured it would be a good way to get to know the game. Safe, away from trouble, and the US typically has its hands full with every single one of the game's systems, from diplomacy, war in the air, on the ground, and at sea, and especially the mega importance this game puts on your economy. I like tooling around with supply chains and boy, does this game deliver on that front.

Every single aspect of war in this game is entirely dependent on your economy. What you build, how you set up your factories, the resource supply chain, and the logistics of getting yours tanks and your guns to the front, are all abstracted just enough to not make it feel automatic and therefore boring, but still require enough forethought and skill to make it challenging. Even as the US I feel like I need to produce a hundred different things but I only have enough resources to focus on some of them, to the detriment of others. The technology tree also ties into this; you only have a few slots so what you choose matters as it dictates what you can build, which dovetails nicely into the army division builder.

The division builder follows this same overall concept of "feel just right"  level of micro versus macro. I can easily build whatever the fuck I want, dependent of course on what you have available to you. Regardless of how easy it is, i still feel like the choices I made in the tech tree matter, and when I press the Train button that when my production and supply chains go to work filling out what I designed in the division builder. It's simple in its complexity and once you get it it's so intuitive that I felt like an idiot ever questioning this system at all. Seeing your little armies kitted out in gear you built especially for them and seeing how they fare makes me feel like my decisions matter. That's really, really good in a video game.

The diplomacy is less well fleshed out, and i wish the game would show better feedback in certain areas, like air combat and sea battles, but the system, as a whole, works, and works brilliantly. There does appear to be a bunch of little bugs in the game (for instance, I retooled a production queue once to a new fighter but it still kept on producing the old obsolete fighter) but I know P'dox will fix these. The AI is half challenging and half wonky. Sometimes it appears to have a brilliant time pushing your shit in and sometimes it leaves whole fronts undefended. These are things I also know will be improved upon.

To end, basically this is the most interesting and fully fleshed out AT RELEASE video game P'dox has ever put out. It's engaging. I'm always doing something, whether it's retooling factories or researching technology or browsing the focus tree or assembling armies with an easy to use front and attack order. And I always feel like what I decide matters. This is a far cry from Stellaris which is competent but utterly uninteresting at the moment. Hearts of Iron 4 has actually hooked me in a way a video game rarely has. I foresee countless hours coming up with new divisions and production chains and new ways to push Germany's shit in.

It is a good game. At $30 using the promo code on GMG it's a fucking steal. If you want, wait a couple patches. But buy it eventually.

Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on June 09, 2016, 12:24:12 PM
Heh, just bought it at Wingamestore.com for 29 USD. It asked me whether I live in Germany or the Rest of the World as the German version is censored and Steam enforces that.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on June 09, 2016, 02:41:44 PM
This looks pretty daunting. The various optimizations remind me of Excel. And not in a good way.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 09, 2016, 05:51:59 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on June 09, 2016, 11:23:56 AM
If you like counters with NATO symbols, these are nice: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=699668071&searchtext=counters

I also got this to go with it: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=698665197&searchtext=

I use Coloured Buttons, DzK Better Counters and better terrain view.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on June 09, 2016, 06:13:06 PM
Quote from: frunk on June 09, 2016, 05:51:59 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on June 09, 2016, 11:23:56 AM
If you like counters with NATO symbols, these are nice: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=699668071&searchtext=counters

I also got this to go with it: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=698665197&searchtext=

I use Coloured Buttons, DzK Better Counters and better terrain view.

Yeah the colored buttons are good too.  I installed better terrain view at work, but haven't checked it out yet.  I was having some trouble telling what was what in some places, especially along the borders where the map is all glowy.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 09, 2016, 06:48:55 PM
I'm just not really interested in WWII strategy games anymore, it's too unbalanced. The Allies can't really lose, and if the game allows you to win regularly as the Axis, it's probably not a very accurate game.

I'd rather play a mod/DLC WWI scenario.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: FunkMonk on June 09, 2016, 07:52:12 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 09, 2016, 06:48:55 PM
I'm just not really interested in WWII strategy games anymore, it's too unbalanced. The Allies can't really lose, and if the game allows you to win regularly as the Axis, it's probably not a very accurate game.

I'd rather play a mod/DLC WWI scenario.

That's a beef I have with the game too. How ahistorical you have to make the game to, well, make it a game. Historical accuracy sacrificed for the sake of a "balanced" game, but is it too much? I haven't played enough to answer that really answer that yet.

And I think you're absolutely right.  This game will fit a WW I scenario perfectly, actually. In some ways this game fits that war much better, namely the front system. And balancing the economies will probably be easier and a lot more "historical".
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Alcibiades on June 09, 2016, 10:10:21 PM
Ai is terrible, there will never  be a D-day in the current set up, AI lands 1-2 divisions and does nothing with them.  The AI didn't even bother doing the Pacific campaign at all in my game.  There is no ledger, at all.  Can't tell how the naval war is going, just randomly sinking a few convoys with my subs every week.

Production is the best its been, so far.  Air war is much simplified, for good and bad.  Research kind of sucks, you upgrade sliders....but when you add 'weapon' or 'armor' upgrades to your vehicles, it does just that, its a stat increase.  No putting on  88mm gun instead of a 75mm gun etc.  Kind of meh. 

Also the new way that they handle armies sucks.  No leaders, and theyre basically all boring husks that slowly gain attributes and perks.  Old way was definitely better, really dislike this part the most.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on June 09, 2016, 10:39:26 PM
Am I missing something, or is the air assignments interface really clunky?  It's kind of a pain to find units and shuffle them around or have them do stuff (click on airfield, click on airwing, right click? on region, find airwing in region list, click to give mission).  Carriers also seem to have the same thing going on, except it's sort of a mix of the naval and air UI.  Everything is run through little icons all over the map, then somewhat randomly located windows that open. 
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: mongers on June 10, 2016, 06:56:11 AM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on June 09, 2016, 10:39:26 PM
Am I missing something, or is the air assignments interface really clunky?  It's kind of a pain to find units and shuffle them around or have them do stuff (click on airfield, click on airwing, right click? on region, find airwing in region list, click to give mission).  Carriers also seem to have the same thing going on, except it's sort of a mix of the naval and air UI.  Everything is run through little icons all over the map, then somewhat randomly located windows that open.

Fog of War?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 10, 2016, 07:21:57 AM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on June 09, 2016, 10:39:26 PM
Am I missing something, or is the air assignments interface really clunky?  It's kind of a pain to find units and shuffle them around or have them do stuff (click on airfield, click on airwing, right click? on region, find airwing in region list, click to give mission).  Carriers also seem to have the same thing going on, except it's sort of a mix of the naval and air UI.  Everything is run through little icons all over the map, then somewhat randomly located windows that open.

It's a little, yeah.  The mission choice seems to be sticky though, so if you are just moving to a new region it's not as bad.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 10, 2016, 08:03:14 AM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on June 09, 2016, 10:39:26 PM
Am I missing something, or is the air assignments interface really clunky?  It's kind of a pain to find units and shuffle them around or have them do stuff (click on airfield, click on airwing, right click? on region, find airwing in region list, click to give mission).  Carriers also seem to have the same thing going on, except it's sort of a mix of the naval and air UI.  Everything is run through little icons all over the map, then somewhat randomly located windows that open.

The interface is pretty clunky all around. Even removing, finding, merging armies seems excessively complicated. If I click on a division from the army screen you would think it would take you to that army on the map--but no, I still have to look at the map and try to find it. I also can never tell when my armies are actually deployed on the ground. There's just, I don't know, some things missing with this game here and there.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 10, 2016, 08:42:49 AM
On the top right you can click on the army symbols and it will take you to them.  If you want to go to a particular division you can right-click on it in the army list.  The top right buttons also have overviews for air/land/sea that are quite useful.

Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 10, 2016, 09:09:06 AM
I hate to say that I am missing the mini-ledger quite badly.  It makes me constantly go through tabs checking for potential problems.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: crazy canuck on June 10, 2016, 09:16:20 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 09, 2016, 11:38:58 AM
So I bought this after having a weird cold and I stayed home from work for a couple days because I felt miserable. Figured, why the hell not? I need something to do and their last game, Stellaris, didn't have any real game-breaking bugs and despite having little actual content, seems a solid enough base for an interesting and varied 4X game. Money decently spent, if not exactly a bargain.

I've played Hearts of Iron 4 for many hours now. The first several were just coming to grips with all the new systems and the UI. I've played mostly the United States because I figured it would be a good way to get to know the game. Safe, away from trouble, and the US typically has its hands full with every single one of the game's systems, from diplomacy, war in the air, on the ground, and at sea, and especially the mega importance this game puts on your economy. I like tooling around with supply chains and boy, does this game deliver on that front.

Every single aspect of war in this game is entirely dependent on your economy. What you build, how you set up your factories, the resource supply chain, and the logistics of getting yours tanks and your guns to the front, are all abstracted just enough to not make it feel automatic and therefore boring, but still require enough forethought and skill to make it challenging. Even as the US I feel like I need to produce a hundred different things but I only have enough resources to focus on some of them, to the detriment of others. The technology tree also ties into this; you only have a few slots so what you choose matters as it dictates what you can build, which dovetails nicely into the army division builder.

The division builder follows this same overall concept of "feel just right"  level of micro versus macro. I can easily build whatever the fuck I want, dependent of course on what you have available to you. Regardless of how easy it is, i still feel like the choices I made in the tech tree matter, and when I press the Train button that when my production and supply chains go to work filling out what I designed in the division builder. It's simple in its complexity and once you get it it's so intuitive that I felt like an idiot ever questioning this system at all. Seeing your little armies kitted out in gear you built especially for them and seeing how they fare makes me feel like my decisions matter. That's really, really good in a video game.

The diplomacy is less well fleshed out, and i wish the game would show better feedback in certain areas, like air combat and sea battles, but the system, as a whole, works, and works brilliantly. There does appear to be a bunch of little bugs in the game (for instance, I retooled a production queue once to a new fighter but it still kept on producing the old obsolete fighter) but I know P'dox will fix these. The AI is half challenging and half wonky. Sometimes it appears to have a brilliant time pushing your shit in and sometimes it leaves whole fronts undefended. These are things I also know will be improved upon.

To end, basically this is the most interesting and fully fleshed out AT RELEASE video game P'dox has ever put out. It's engaging. I'm always doing something, whether it's retooling factories or researching technology or browsing the focus tree or assembling armies with an easy to use front and attack order. And I always feel like what I decide matters. This is a far cry from Stellaris which is competent but utterly uninteresting at the moment. Hearts of Iron 4 has actually hooked me in a way a video game rarely has. I foresee countless hours coming up with new divisions and production chains and new ways to push Germany's shit in.

It is a good game. At $30 using the promo code on GMG it's a fucking steal. If you want, wait a couple patches. But buy it eventually.

Thanks for that.  I will get the game based on this and trust Paradox will deal with all the other issues people are talking about.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 10, 2016, 10:06:05 AM


It is a good game. At $30 using the promo code on GMG it's a fucking steal. If you want, wait a couple patches. But buy it eventually.
[/quote]

Thanks for that.  I will get the game based on this and trust Paradox will deal with all the other issues people are talking about.
[/quote]

You can't go wrong CC. You've been around a while, you know how it all works. There's a few issues, but it will all be looked at in time (and other issues created :D)

I've been playing about an hour a day since Monday, and other than some annoying interface issues and some buggy shit, I've been enjoying it
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on June 10, 2016, 11:48:45 AM
I played the tutorial with Italy now and conquered Ethiopia and Yugoslavia. I got Albania from a National Focus event. So far so good. The battleplan system works reasonably well although micro-managing seems to help a lot to get encirclements etc.

Not sure if I understood yet how the navy works. Is there a reason why I should not just put all of my ships in a massive stack like in other Paradox games?

Air support is also not particularly transparent. I am not sure how much (if any) effect my fighters and bombers have. You sometimes see a small icon in land battles, but that's about it.

The economy system seems to be much better than HoI2, although I don't understand why I am not able to stockpile oil. I will obviously run out as Italy...
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: FunkMonk on June 10, 2016, 03:04:51 PM
The interface and battle feedback definitely needs some work.

Still, naval battles are fun to look at when they're happening, even if it's just looking at little shapes on the screen move nearer to each other with little arrows showing who is attacking who. I watched USS Washington blow away half the battleship line of the main Japanese fleet by itself and I erupted in a cheer.  :blush:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: FunkMonk on June 10, 2016, 03:12:49 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 10, 2016, 09:09:06 AM
I hate to say that I am missing the mini-ledger quite badly.  It makes me constantly go through tabs checking for potential problems.

I agree. This game really, really needs a ledger.

I miss ledger  :(
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Berkut on June 10, 2016, 03:25:40 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 09, 2016, 10:33:44 AM
Quote from: Darth Wagtaros on June 09, 2016, 10:29:20 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 09, 2016, 09:25:40 AM
But, seriously, I'm about to put this game away and wait for a patch.  There are just a bit too many game-breaking bugs or design decisions at the moment.  Having no control over your borders, having clusterfuck borders after some countries capitulate, an AI that just can't figure out how to attack across the straits, it's just so many things that are obviously not working right.  My guess is that this game would be a lot more finished if D-Day happened on September 6.
First Paradox game then?
I think Paradox as of late has actually cleaned up their act when it comes to game releases, and no longer released games in their alpha or beta stage.  But with HOI IV, and from what it sounds like, Stellaris, they took a big step back.

I can't comment on HOI IV since I didn't buy it because of, well, HOI III, but I would not at all agree that Stellaris was in alpha or beta at release. The game was completely playable.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on June 10, 2016, 04:02:57 PM
The user interface is poor. How do I assign a ship to an existing fleet? If I try, it tells me to rebase my ship to the same naval base. Once I figured out how to do that, it told me that I can't join them because they are still not in the same area or whatever. Fuck it.

Adding divisions to armies, finding out where your fighters are etc. is all not done intuitively or easily. The UI really needs work.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on June 10, 2016, 06:26:05 PM
For the army divisions, select the division you want to add, then right click on the army.  Then you have to like....assign it to a front (which you shouldn't have to do). 
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 10, 2016, 08:16:41 PM
Playing as UK. No historical option. I decided no peace in our time and guaranteed Czechoslovakia. We went to war, but there was a coup in Germany. Hitler was killed and Germany got mired in a civil war, which is making the war somewhat easier. Still enjoying it. Italy is holding out. That said, there are, as have said, strange UI issues. Frequently I rebase planes, but can't seem to issue orders to them. Very annoying. For some reason if I upgrade my planes, then any new planes go towards upgrading the old. I have no option of keeping the old ones active (sending them to the

There's other nitty gritty issues. But so far it's fun.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 11, 2016, 12:09:26 AM
Couple things I can't figure out.  I can't seem to be able to plan naval invasions . I'm on Malta and want to to attack Sicily. The tooltip says to right click on highlighted area, but the only highlighted ports are ones France, my ally, owns. It wonl't let me naval invade anywhere.

Two; Captured airfields. Why can't I use them?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: FunkMonk on June 11, 2016, 09:01:37 AM
For naval invasions you have to click the home port from which the invasion embarks, then click the enemy provinces you want to invade. Then the arrow should pop up and you assign divisions to that plan. It should take like 70 days or something like that to fully plan. Also, you need naval supremacy along the sea zones to the target provinces. And you need high enough amphibious assault tech for the number of divisions you assign to the plan. If you have done this stuff though then it's bugged for you.

All of this important info is only available in the game via tool tips, which is dumb.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 11, 2016, 09:42:35 AM
Yeah, I think that was my misake. I assumed it knew the port my units were in was the origin point.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on June 11, 2016, 10:30:51 AM
Quote from: frunk on June 09, 2016, 05:51:59 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on June 09, 2016, 11:23:56 AM
If you like counters with NATO symbols, these are nice: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=699668071&searchtext=counters

I also got this to go with it: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=698665197&searchtext=

I use Coloured Buttons, DzK Better Counters and better terrain view.

Well, I ended up having to go back to the regular counters, since DzK hasn't quite gotten the stacking right yet.  When you have multiple armies and groups in smallish areas (for example when your AI generals manage to get like 30 divisions cut off in one province because they were doing their stupidass unit shuffling thing) it turns into a confusing clusterfuck.

E: Also, get this: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=700278562&searchtext=
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: crazy canuck on June 11, 2016, 06:21:19 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 10, 2016, 08:16:41 PM
Playing as UK. No historical option. I decided no peace in our time and guaranteed Czechoslovakia. We went to war, but there was a coup in Germany. Hitler was killed and Germany got mired in a civil war, which is making the war somewhat easier. Still enjoying it. Italy is holding out. That said, there are, as have said, strange UI issues. Frequently I rebase planes, but can't seem to issue orders to them. Very annoying. For some reason if I upgrade my planes, then any new planes go towards upgrading the old. I have no option of keeping the old ones active (sending them to the

There's other nitty gritty issues. But so far it's fun.

When rebasing you have to wait for the planes to arrive before issuing them a new order.  It is cumbersome.  It would be a lot better if you can issue an order for when they do arrive.  The airbase interface is very cumbersome but I eventually got the hand of it.

The rest of the game makes up for those shortcomings imo.  My first go through as the Soviets had the Germans walk all over me.  I forgot to do a few things, like put my economy on a war footing and I didnt know I had to manually upgrade my equipment in the division designer.   Next time around was a blast.  The Allies did not declare war when Germany invaded and conquered Poland.  And so the day after Poland fell Germany declared war on Mother Russia in 1939.  I had to stand along for a little over a year when the French declared and then a few months later the UK joined in.  By the time the Americans joined it was pretty much over.  But for those months alone it was touch and go. The timing of France's entry was perfect - my medium tank divisions were starting to come out of training fully equipped...

Painting the orders of the map takes some getting used to and I am not sure I really have the hang of it yet.  Sometimes I see stray units heading in the opposite direction I want, and so too often I end up issuing manual commands.  But when the planned attacks work it works well.

I just really wish they could come up with a better air war interface.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on June 11, 2016, 09:11:15 PM
One thing I haven't figured out is how to "paint" a front along the borders with multiple countries (say, France, Luxembourg, Belgium, and the Netherlands). It won't let me keep drawing when I get to the end of the border.  I can do it with the fallback lines though, but with those, it doesn't seem to distribute units very evenly along the line.  :hmm: It's nbd for France and such, you can just make separate armies, but something like Luxembourg, where it's just one province....it leaves a hole.  I've just been plugging it manually, but mer.

E:  Ah ha.  Hold shift and drag along the next border.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 11, 2016, 09:40:06 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 11, 2016, 06:21:19 PM
When rebasing you have to wait for the planes to arrive before issuing them a new order.  It is cumbersome.  It would be a lot better if you can issue an order for when they do arrive.  The airbase interface is very cumbersome but I eventually got the hand of it.

If the new area is within range of the old base you can still issue the new order, so it isn't always true.  Which is part of the annoyance, it'll work sometimes but not all the time.  I'd prefer if it would let you issue an order for anywhere, and if the current base isn't in range of the order it would be a popup warning and turn into a no-op.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 11, 2016, 09:43:45 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 11, 2016, 06:21:19 PM

I didnt know I had to manually upgrade my equipment in the division designer. 

Doesn't the division designer have a "Use latest equipment" toggle?

What annoys me is that say you upgrade to fighter II, your production continues to produces fighter 1 unless you tell it too.

And it's not just the Airforce Interface that is clunky. After my war in Europe ended, I, as Britian, decided to move my fleet to the Pacific. That was long and cumbersome.

I am having fun though. So far, late 1941, Czechoslovakia ate up most of Nazi Germany as Democratic Germany won the civil war. Goebells is now running the remnants of Nazi Germany is Siam or something. Europe is peaceful after Italy fell. Canada and france did most of the heavy lifting as I figured out how to actually invade Anzio. The AI defensively was tough. I had a divison on conquer Milan orders (from France) and it took a good 18 months to win that. Now that Italy capitualted we're on to fighting Japan who are at the gates of India. The USSR is quiet, though it just recently invaded the Baltic states.

Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 11, 2016, 09:46:15 PM
Quote from: frunk on June 11, 2016, 09:40:06 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 11, 2016, 06:21:19 PM
When rebasing you have to wait for the planes to arrive before issuing them a new order.  It is cumbersome.  It would be a lot better if you can issue an order for when they do arrive.  The airbase interface is very cumbersome but I eventually got the hand of it.

If the new area is within range of the old base you can still issue the new order, so it isn't always true.  Which is part of the annoyance, it'll work sometimes but not all the time.  I'd prefer if it would let you issue an order for anywhere, and if the current base isn't in range of the order it would be a popup warning and turn into a no-op.

Yeah, it's a bit confusing. There's a lot of confusing shit. Like for instance in my England game, we captured Torino but I'm still unable to use the airfield there. Yet when we captured Rome, I was able to use the airfield in Rome. Not sure what the rules are. The Torino one is in my ally France territory, whereas Rome is occupied by CAnada, my puppet.

I think HOI IV has the making of a fun game, but there's little shit they're gonna have to balance/fix.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 11, 2016, 10:05:24 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on June 11, 2016, 09:11:15 PM
One thing I haven't figured out is how to "paint" a front along the borders with multiple countries (say, France, Luxembourg, Belgium, and the Netherlands). It won't let me keep drawing when I get to the end of the border.  I can do it with the fallback lines though, but with those, it doesn't seem to distribute units very evenly along the line.  :hmm: It's nbd for France and such, you can just make separate armies, but something like Luxembourg, where it's just one province....it leaves a hole.  I've just been plugging it manually, but mer.

E:  Ah ha.  Hold shift and drag along the next border.
It's actually extremely confusing.  My first game as Soviets, I defended against Germany, but not Hungary or Romania, because of this.  Oops.  You just add fronts, one after another.  Now, the confusing part is, by default, 100% of the army guards the first front, and the rest are left unattended.  So you have to select some units from your army, assign them to other fronts.  Pure annoyance, especially with no easy way to have sub-armies within armies.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 11, 2016, 10:06:51 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 11, 2016, 09:43:45 PM
What annoys me is that say you upgrade to fighter II, your production continues to produces fighter 1 unless you tell it too.
That actually should not be an automatic decision.  If you're woefully short of equipment as is, you may decide that producing outdated stuff at full clip is better than taking a productivity hit with the new stuff.  That's the dilemma Soviets were wrestling with throughout the war in real life.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 11, 2016, 10:14:29 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 11, 2016, 10:06:51 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 11, 2016, 09:43:45 PM
What annoys me is that say you upgrade to fighter II, your production continues to produces fighter 1 unless you tell it too.
That actually should not be an automatic decision.  If you're woefully short of equipment as is, you may decide that producing outdated stuff at full clip is better than taking a productivity hit with the new stuff.  That's the dilemma Soviets were wrestling with throughout the war in real life.

What would be good is a popup when a new equipment tech is finished asking if you want to migrate current lines to the latest one.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on June 11, 2016, 10:18:13 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 11, 2016, 10:05:24 PM
It's actually extremely confusing.  My first game as Soviets, I defended against Germany, but not Hungary or Romania, because of this.  Oops.  You just add fronts, one after another.  Now, the confusing part is, by default, 100% of the army guards the first front, and the rest are left unattended.  So you have to select some units from your army, assign them to other fronts.  Pure annoyance, especially with no easy way to have sub-armies within armies.

:lol:  Yeah I did that just now with freaking Luxembourg.  That damn place is getting the harshest treatment when it's conquered.  I really don't get why they included the "assign to fronts" button.  Why doesn't the AI general I have in charge of those divisions just send them where they need to go?

E:  Dammit, and Poland now just gave up Danzig without a fight.  I had a pretty slick battle plan that probably wasn't going to work all ready to go.  Guderian from the North, Rommel from the southwest, von Manstein from the West all meeting for a party in the Warsaw area, with whatshisname with the monocle set to crush Latvia and Estonia.  Oh and von Bock was coming from the South. Big arrows all over the place. :bash:

ermahgerd now the Russians invaded before I could justify my attack
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 12, 2016, 04:33:28 AM
I decided to play as Mexico on easy difficulty, just for kicks.  The ultimate goal was to avenge the Mexican-American war.

I started by going fascist, and then gobbling all the Central American states down to Panama.  That was easy.  The next step, invading Cuba, put paid to my plans to fight US.  Most of able-bodied Mexicans laid down their lives in the ill-fated naval invasion of Cuba.  Apparently naval invasions without marines are a very bad idea.  Finally I fixed that error and annexed Cuba as well, just as a learning exercise.

By that point, US massed a huge army on my border, so I just worked on my economy as much as I could, and put up whatever force my manpower could muster against them.  At that point my goal is just to see how long I could survive. 

Then US for some reason moved out most their forces from their border.  Maybe they sent them to Japan, maybe they just garrisoned.  I said fuck it, joined the Axis, and decided to go out in a blaze of glory.  Less that two years later, US capitulated.   :lmfao:  I actually lost less men conquering all of US than I lost in my ill-fated Cuban invasion.  :lol:

I'm still trying to figure out WTF happened.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Liep on June 12, 2016, 06:26:26 AM
Sounds like a fun game. :P
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on June 12, 2016, 07:48:25 AM
Quote from: DGuller on June 12, 2016, 04:33:28 AM
I decided to play as Mexico on easy difficulty, just for kicks.  The ultimate goal was to avenge the Mexican-American war.

I started by going fascist, and then gobbling all the Central American states down to Panama.  That was easy.  The next step, invading Cuba, put paid to my plans to fight US.  Most of able-bodied Mexicans laid down their lives in the ill-fated naval invasion of Cuba.  Apparently naval invasions without marines are a very bad idea.  Finally I fixed that error and annexed Cuba as well, just as a learning exercise.

By that point, US massed a huge army on my border, so I just worked on my economy as much as I could, and put up whatever force my manpower could muster against them.  At that point my goal is just to see how long I could survive. 

Then US for some reason moved out most their forces from their border.  Maybe they sent them to Japan, maybe they just garrisoned.  I said fuck it, joined the Axis, and decided to go out in a blaze of glory.  Less that two years later, US capitulated.   :lmfao:  I actually lost less men conquering all of US than I lost in my ill-fated Cuban invasion.  :lol:

I'm still trying to figure out WTF happened.

Hillary happened.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on June 12, 2016, 09:36:15 AM
They should have built a wall.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on June 12, 2016, 01:59:42 PM
Why is the UK led by the PM and Japan by the Emperor?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 12, 2016, 09:34:17 PM
So far it looks like the Allied AI doesn't bother with convoy raiding, or I have stealth convoys.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: FunkMonk on June 13, 2016, 10:51:57 AM
In my US game the UK had a large landing in northern Italy (30+ divisions)  while I jumped in a little later into southern Italy with 50+ divisions. We proceeded to knock Italy out of the war. The advance only ended on the Alpine borders with Germany and Vichy France.

Meanwhile, Germany was bogged down in the Balkan as it managed to force Yugoslavia to capitulate only to have to face the might of the combined Greek-British armies. Greece took its 50 divisions  :lol: and steamrolled Axis Romania and Bulgaria. 

Thousands of American B-17b's bomb Germany into oblivion as America has achieved air superiority pretty much everywhere while I landed in Normandy with another large contingent of troops. It's 1943 now and most of France has been liberated while Allied troops advance into western Germany from former Austria to link up with my French forces. Also the Germans never declared on the Soviet Union so the Soviets did it for them in late 1942. The Soviets oddly decided to largely ignore their Polish front with Germany and sent a hundred divisions into southern Germany via the Allied Balkan-Southern German front.  :lol:

This game can get kinda wacky and I love it for this. Despite its warts, it's still super fun. After the kinks get worked out its going to be utterly amazing.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on June 13, 2016, 12:07:51 PM
Damn how did they get the manpower for 50 divisions?  Greece starts out with...I think like 25k dudes available.

Is there a combined arms bonus in this game like with the other three?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 13, 2016, 12:15:46 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on June 13, 2016, 12:07:51 PM
Is there a combined arms bonus in this game like with the other three?

No, however the stats on the units encourage combined arms.  Infantry of all types have more HP and defense, Armor has more attack stats and breakthrough (which is defense when attacking).  So purely defensive units can get away without armor, but any primarily attacking units would be best to have some armor (or I suppose lots of Arty).

Purely armor units would be attacking powerhouses but also extremely fragile and vulnerable to counterattack.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 13, 2016, 12:22:38 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on June 13, 2016, 12:07:51 PM
Damn how did they get the manpower for 50 divisions?  Greece starts out with...I think like 25k dudes available.

Is there a combined arms bonus in this game like with the other three?
DDRJake had 50 division as El Salvador.  It can be done, you just have to play with manpower settings and not have a lot of battalions in them.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 13, 2016, 12:48:56 PM
Is the national focus tree supposed to be finished by mid-game?  I've done all the national foci that I particularly want to by 1941.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 13, 2016, 01:51:50 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 13, 2016, 10:51:57 AM

This game can get kinda wacky and I love it for this. Despite its warts, it's still super fun. After the kinks get worked out its going to be utterly amazing.

This. It has lots of warts, but despite this is fun.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 13, 2016, 01:53:25 PM
Quote from: frunk on June 13, 2016, 12:48:56 PM
Is the national focus tree supposed to be finished by mid-game?  I've done all the national foci that I particularly want to by 1941.

It does go by fast. Plus it's not particularly dynamic. By that I mean, in my england game, because I'm not at war with Germany, a lot of the tree doesn't apply to me.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on June 13, 2016, 04:39:49 PM
Hm.  In my current game, it has decided to stop pausing for the notifications. 
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 15, 2016, 07:38:48 AM
How do your airplanes repair? Also do destroyed planes restock from the reserve supply?

If I have complete air mastery, is there any point in continuing to build planes?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on June 15, 2016, 10:32:59 AM
They don't really seem to get damaged as far as I can tell, just destroyed (the number on the map ticks down, then ticks back up vOv).  Replacements appear to come out of the reserve. 

I guess if you aren't losing planes anymore you can stop.  They have accidents and such too though, so maybe keep some sort of production?  Unless your reserve will just never run out or something. 

E: From the HOI4 Reddit:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Flz3woIt.jpg&hash=3a491bd5effff0aa14f909a1fae535668d909294)
:)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Solmyr on June 15, 2016, 10:51:32 AM
After viewing Marbozir's playthrough I got this game. :bleeding: Started a game as Turkey to learn things. Started going fascist and just conquered Bulgaria. Next targets are Greece and Iran, after that I'll see if I can get anything else without joining a faction (maybe Yugoslavia; Hungary and Romania are already in the Axis).
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 15, 2016, 12:05:31 PM
I've gotten much better at handling fronts/armies, and now the combat AI doesn't seem nearly as braindead.  Typically I stick all the offensive units I want to attack in a particular direction under a specific general and have it cover the front where the attack will originate.  Defensive generals cover the other areas.  Draw the attack (waiting for divisions to get into position at least, wait for prepared divisions if not in a hurry or for tougher battles), initiate and monitor.  Shrink the offensive general's frontage to maintain focus, increasing the frontage of adjacent defensive generals as necessary.  Right click and hold on the big circles at the end of each front to shrink/grow it.

Defensive generals can of course initiate attacks, but those typically aren't the main focus.

Doing this about the only time I've had to command individual divisions is to mop up pockets.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadBurgerMaker on June 15, 2016, 01:13:57 PM
Playing as Finland, Feb 1939.  Shit is about to go down, and I've only got 10,000 in manpower reserves.  I'm going to get stomped. :(
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: FunkMonk on June 15, 2016, 01:27:48 PM
I want to play this game but every time I start it up and start playing I get tunnel vision and look at the clock and I say, oh, just one more hour, and then 6 hours pass and it's midnight and I have to get to work in the morning  :(
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 15, 2016, 03:19:53 PM
Quote from: FunkMonk on June 15, 2016, 01:27:48 PM
I want to play this game but every time I start it up and start playing I get tunnel vision and look at the clock and I say, oh, just one more hour, and then 6 hours pass and it's midnight and I have to get to work in the morning  :(

Yup. Forget how addicitive this series can be.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 15, 2016, 03:21:27 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on June 15, 2016, 10:32:59 AM
They don't really seem to get damaged as far as I can tell, just destroyed (the number on the map ticks down, then ticks back up vOv).  Replacements appear to come out of the reserve. 

I guess if you aren't losing planes anymore you can stop.  They have accidents and such too though, so maybe keep some sort of production?  Unless your reserve will just never run out or something. 

E: From the HOI4 Reddit:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Flz3woIt.jpg&hash=3a491bd5effff0aa14f909a1fae535668d909294)
:)

Ha....good to know.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on June 15, 2016, 03:22:11 PM
I played a bit as Italy now, but I guess I didn't build divisions and fighters fast enough in my built-up. I did easily conquer Yugoslavia and Egypt though, struggling with Greece, barely holding the line against France.

I consider to restart with what I learned but play Japan or Germany this time. Somehow I only like to play the Axis in HoI...  :blush:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 15, 2016, 03:23:13 PM
Quote from: frunk on June 15, 2016, 12:05:31 PM
I've gotten much better at handling fronts/armies, and now the combat AI doesn't seem nearly as braindead.  Typically I stick all the offensive units I want to attack in a particular direction under a specific general and have it cover the front where the attack will originate.  Defensive generals cover the other areas.  Draw the attack (waiting for divisions to get into position at least, wait for prepared divisions if not in a hurry or for tougher battles), initiate and monitor.  Shrink the offensive general's frontage to maintain focus, increasing the frontage of adjacent defensive generals as necessary.  Right click and hold on the big circles at the end of each front to shrink/grow it.

Defensive generals can of course initiate attacks, but those typically aren't the main focus.

Doing this about the only time I've had to command individual divisions is to mop up pockets.

I've found though when you have many armies on a single front, it gets very confusing
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 15, 2016, 03:27:27 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 15, 2016, 03:23:13 PM
I've found though when you have many armies on a single front, it gets very confusing

Many armies are relative.  For the invasion of France I had 3, Russia 4 (expanding briefly to 5 when I broke into the Caucasus).  It's perfectly manageable if each army has its designated section of front.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: PJL on June 15, 2016, 04:32:50 PM
Quote from: frunk on June 15, 2016, 03:27:27 PM
Quote from: Josephus on June 15, 2016, 03:23:13 PM
I've found though when you have many armies on a single front, it gets very confusing

Many armies are relative.  For the invasion of France I had 3, Russia 4 (expanding briefly to 5 when I broke into the Caucasus).  It's perfectly manageable if each army has its designated section of front.

That sounds more like army groups rather than actual armies to me.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Minsky Moment on June 15, 2016, 04:37:28 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 12, 2016, 01:59:42 PM
Why is the UK led by the PM and Japan by the Emperor?

It would be pretty odd if the emperor led the UK and Churchill led Japan.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on June 15, 2016, 04:41:51 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 15, 2016, 04:37:28 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 12, 2016, 01:59:42 PM
Why is the UK led by the PM and Japan by the Emperor?

It would be pretty odd if the emperor led the UK and Churchill led Japan.

Oddly awesome.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 15, 2016, 04:53:48 PM
Quote from: PJL on June 15, 2016, 04:32:50 PM
That sounds more like army groups rather than actual armies to me.

I'm using the term armies for a group of divisions commanded by a general.  HOI IV doesn't have the complicated OOB that HOI 3 had.  There are technically two levels of general but the only significance is the lower level has a 24 division cap while the upper level is unlimited.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on June 16, 2016, 12:04:17 PM
Finished my game as britain soemtime in 1946. Didn't understand how the peace conference worked at all...ended up with Finland becoming the most powerful (geographically speaking) nation in the world with parts of Poland and western Soviet Union. I, Britain, got nothing. India did well for itself too.

Anyway, it was fun. Issues with interface not withstanding, and a few other glitches.

Will resume as Britain once more, this time historically. Alas, I'm on holiday for two weeks, so it will have to wait.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 17, 2016, 10:34:02 PM
It seems like there's some weird choices on the National Focus trees when you compare between countries.  For instance If Italy pushes for their fifth Research Slot they can achieve it in 280 days (October 1936).  GB can get it in 280 days but world tension has to be >1% for Shadow Scheme.  Japan is 70 days earlier than that (210) with no extra conditions!  I think the US is longer, but they can get up to 6 Research Slots.  France starts with 3 but can get to 5 in 420 days.  USSR also starts with 3 and can get to 5 in 630 days.  Germany can't get their fifth Research Slot until December of 1937 (700 days)!

Considering that the fifth Research Slot is an effective 25% bonus to research for the rest of the game, which is significantly better than a lot of the other National Focus stuff, it doesn't seem to make much sense. 
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadImmortalMan on June 19, 2016, 12:44:55 AM
I fired up a game as Chile so I could watch the AI a bit. I didn't get to have my base at Hanga Roa because apparently Easter Island sank into the sea or something.  :Embarrass:


AKA map sucks
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on June 19, 2016, 02:18:22 AM
I played a game as Germany. I played fairly historical up to August 1939.

Went for the Low Countries and France right after Poland though instead of Denmark and Norway and could finish France in early 1940. Italy left Yugoslavia alone, so I joined the Finnish defensive war against the Soviet Union in May 1940 with all my ground troops. I used Hungarian troops to garrison Western Europe. I had disregarded Republican Spain which attacked me from the South and was an annoyance. Fighting the Soviets was a slugfest. The fronts barely ever encircle troops, you have to do that yourself with micro-management. I did win against the Soviets in late 1941, having taken everything to a line beyond Moscow, Stalingrad and all the way north. The Soviets never got any momentum on any of our frontlines. They had fought Japan and Finland when I started my invasion, so I guess a considerable part of their forces was tied up elsewhere.

Italy won in Africa (conquered everything except Morocco), Japan lost in China (barely holding on Korea and Vietnam). The Allies made like 50 small naval invasions in Normandy, in Spain, in Italy, in Vichy France etc. They broke out of their beachhead to take a province or two sometimes before I contained them. Some of the landings were with like 20 divisions, so an actual threat. But they never got air superiority somehow.

Production-wise, I am not sure what do with old equipment. When I build newer bombers or tanks or so, the old ones just go back to the pool and sit there. Also upgrading a dozen or so tank divisions from light to medium tanks leaves you with many unused light tanks. Do you then create half-mechanized divisions out of these?

My units fought so much and lost so many men that I never got any experienced units (except the two that I sent as volunteers to Spain early on). Not sure if that was due to me fighting such a slugfest in Russia.

I do understand how airforces work now although I am not sure I saw much of an effect in most cases.

I do not understand how navies work, especially naval combat. My entire Kriegsmarine unsuccessfully tried to hunt two Polish submarines for a year or so. But then sank the entire Soviet Baltic fleet with just two destroyers lost on my side.  :huh:

This game is missing a ledger.

Peace conferences are strange. Italy got a "Russian Empire" puppet in the north of Russia. Hungary got Nationalist Spain as a puppet. Both of them had not contributed much to the fighting. I get it when Japan wants its part of the spoils.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on June 20, 2016, 09:40:53 AM
Quote from: Zanza on June 15, 2016, 03:22:11 PM
I played a bit as Italy now, but I guess I didn't build divisions and fighters fast enough in my built-up. I did easily conquer Yugoslavia and Egypt though, struggling with Greece, barely holding the line against France.

I consider to restart with what I learned but play Japan or Germany this time. Somehow I only like to play the Axis in HoI...  :blush:
Ditto. Except for when I purposely let the US slide into a Marxist-Leninist revolution which is then replaced by an ultra-right wing junta.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Valmy on June 20, 2016, 09:44:19 AM
Languish: making the world very dangerous for democracy.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on June 20, 2016, 11:15:50 AM
Japan has an event to puppet China with a 60% chance of acceptance. As there is not much to gain in China, this seems to be a no brainer. You can still separately conquer the Guangxi Clique for their resources.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: PJL on June 20, 2016, 05:08:40 PM
On the game itself, I've actually bought it on the back of the Paradox HOI multiplayer session they had with Quill18, Ariumba, Marbozir, EnterElysium and the other one (Dan?). I did play HOI1 and HOI2 (not much though), but not HOI3 as I thought it was too complicated and too much micro (from the demo). But HOI4 suits my management style much better than 3 did (issue strategic orders and let them get on with it). The production and equipment system is nice and streamlined as well.

Played Romania first (1939 start), but quit that game by Aug 1941 as Germany failed to invade the Soviet Union. It did give me a good insight on the research, political and production side though. I'm currently playing Nationalist China and having a blast against the Japanese (losing but I think I'm winning the attrition war, or least the Japs are increasingly getting worn down at a faster rate).
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 20, 2016, 05:39:34 PM
That multiplayer session was such a letdown.  The two best players played the Axis powers and exploited the shit out of the game, while USSR and US were played by mediocre players, and Marbozir as GB was so awful that it made me wonder how much he save scums when playing SP.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Solmyr on June 21, 2016, 03:49:12 AM
I actually got the game after watching Marbozir's Poland playthrough. In that MP game apparently he was supposed to play Italy and prepared for that, but was given the UK 20 minutes before the game started. So he had no idea what to do.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Agelastus on June 21, 2016, 05:09:06 AM
Quote from: PJL on June 20, 2016, 05:08:40 PM
But HOI4 suits my management style much better than 3 did (issue strategic orders and let them get on with it).

And that's why I haven't bought it myself yet; I thought the worst thing about HOI3 was that you could no longer take control of your military allies as you could in HOI2. To me there looks like huge chunks of the design that have been oversimplified in attempts to appeal to the lowest common gaming denominator. And what I'm reading about the military access issues hasn't been very encouraging either.

[Admittedly I was going to extremes towards the end of my time playing HOI2 or derivative games and mods; I was loading up as my militarily controlled allies every six months or so and managing their production queues as well... :blush:]
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: FunkMonk on June 21, 2016, 08:43:27 AM
Quote from: Agelastus on June 21, 2016, 05:09:06 AM
Quote from: PJL on June 20, 2016, 05:08:40 PM
But HOI4 suits my management style much better than 3 did (issue strategic orders and let them get on with it).

And that's why I haven't bought it myself yet; I thought the worst thing about HOI3 was that you could no longer take control of your military allies as you could in HOI2. To me there looks like huge chunks of the design that have been oversimplified in attempts to appeal to the lowest common gaming denominator. And what I'm reading about the military access issues hasn't been very encouraging either.

[Admittedly I was going to extremes towards the end of my time playing HOI2 or derivative games and mods; I was loading up as my militarily controlled allies every six months or so and managing their production queues as well... :blush:]

If counting the number of Mausers and mortars each one of your meticulously placed coastal garrisons has equipped, this game isn't for you.  :P
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 21, 2016, 08:49:47 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on June 21, 2016, 03:49:12 AM
I actually got the game after watching Marbozir's Poland playthrough. In that MP game apparently he was supposed to play Italy and prepared for that, but was given the UK 20 minutes before the game started. So he had no idea what to do.
Yeah, but he was doing sloppy shit left and right.  Leaving his civilian factories producing nothing for most of the game, leaving invasions unmanned, not assigning units to an army outside of England, the list goes on and on.  You still need to do all of that as Italy.  He seems to be quite slow on the uptake.

I found it funny how from midway through the game, the stream organizers were going "Let's see what UK is up to.  *click*  Oh.   :shutup:"
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 21, 2016, 10:43:59 PM
The mod "Full AI Overhaul" looks interesting, haven't gotten a chance to try it out yet.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 24, 2016, 05:12:26 PM
Here's the mods I currently like:

Coloured Buttons
DzK Better Counters
Flavor Names extended
Full AI Overhaul
More NATO Counters
Motorized Artillery Units
better terrain view
more theatre icons

Here's ones I'm using but they need some work:

More Variants - Lets you spend Army EXP to make Truck/Artillery/AA/AT variants.  Nice idea, but I think the Army EXP needs to tweaked up by ~25% to make it viable.
CompactProductionLineUI - Reduces the height of production line entries.  Works great except when you need to adjust the number of Factories.


Other game thoughts:

Endgame slows to a crawl on my machine, but that's not new for a Paradox game.
Unit building, training and experience should be applied to Aircraft as well.  It's weird that you can have a few hundred aircraft in reserve, assign them to an airfield and after a little while you've got a fully functioning air force.  Considering the importance of pilot training during the war it's weird.
Along that line exercises for aircraft and naval units to gain unit and naval/air experience would be nice.
I'd like to be able to set the training level that a division queue will pop a unit out.  It would be easier than monitoring the queue for when it finishes a given experience level.
Other than the minors I think Germany has the least interesting National Foci.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Kleves on June 25, 2016, 10:36:32 AM
So, is this worth picking up? It seems like there are quite a few kind of obtuse design decisions.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 25, 2016, 11:28:31 AM
Quote from: Kleves on June 25, 2016, 10:36:32 AM
So, is this worth picking up? It seems like there are quite a few kind of obtuse design decisions.

By far it is the best HOI at release, but considering the previous versions were all unplayable before patches in one way or another that's a pretty low bar.  They've avoided the micro-management hell that HOI 2 and HOI 3 could descend into.  I enjoy playing and I find myself thinking of different things to try on a new run through, but there's definitely still UI and play issues.  I don't see any fundamental problems with the design though.

If you prefer a well polished game wait for patches/mods/expansions.  If you don't mind a rough around the edges but still fun game go for it.

Here's my list of good:
Research System
Production System
Division creation/management
Combat/Front management and AI (with the Full AI Overhaul)
Aircraft abstraction
Naval abstraction
Lend Lease and Volunteers
Concept of National Focus
Partisan system

Bad and needs work:
Air UI and reporting
Naval reporting
Peace Resolution
National Focus implementation
Air wing deployment too simple (should use division deployment system)
Party influence on other countries too strong
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on June 25, 2016, 02:04:11 PM
I'm taking a break from HOI4 and Stellaris to play the highly polished EUIV. I'll return to them once a few things are sorted out.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadImmortalMan on June 25, 2016, 10:27:48 PM
The air interface is actually starting to make sense to me now. I might be insane.

It's more thought-out than it seems at first.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 25, 2016, 11:27:09 PM
Both the air and the naval really suffer from lack of ledger.  I've lost count of how often my fleets wound up doing nothing because I didn't notice it lost its sea zones.  And collecting all those air wings that are two air zones behind the front lines can get old as well.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 25, 2016, 11:48:59 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 25, 2016, 11:27:09 PM
Both the air and the naval really suffer from lack of ledger.  I've lost count of how often my fleets wound up doing nothing because I didn't notice it lost its sea zones.  And collecting all those air wings that are two air zones behind the front lines can get old as well.

Yeah, it's not so much that I can't tell what the air wings are doing, it's just a pain to find and change the orders for the wings when I want them doing something else.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on June 26, 2016, 03:12:28 PM
Meh, my game with Japan was ruined by the utter stupidity of Germany and Italy. Italy had way too many troops in Africa and couldn't defend its heartland. Germany was extremely slow in Poland and declared on the Benelux before finishing Poland.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 26, 2016, 03:32:56 PM
Has someone ever had a game where Italy didn't lose Rome to the British early on?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on June 26, 2016, 03:34:07 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 26, 2016, 03:32:56 PM
Has someone ever had a game where Italy didn't lose Rome to the British early on?
When I played Germany, I just garrisoned Italy with all those troops they wanted to give me.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on June 26, 2016, 03:34:24 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 26, 2016, 03:32:56 PM
Has someone ever had a game where Italy didn't lose Rome to the British early on?

Italy has never lost Rome in any of my games.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 26, 2016, 03:56:41 PM
Is there any way to get rid of old planes?  I conquered the Allies, and I inherited something like 100 different types of planes.  These planes are useless to me, but they're slowing the game down whenever I want to create a new airwing.  I can't even seem to create airwings that deliberately use old planes, just so that they would be cleaned out through combat.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: crazy canuck on June 27, 2016, 08:44:59 PM
Quote from: frunk on June 26, 2016, 03:34:24 PM
Quote from: DGuller on June 26, 2016, 03:32:56 PM
Has someone ever had a game where Italy didn't lose Rome to the British early on?

Italy has never lost Rome in any of my games.

It happened in each of my games
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: HVC on June 30, 2016, 07:09:23 AM
How can Russia's bombers pass through my air controlled zones and bomb me behind the lines? Am I doing something wrong?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: crazy canuck on June 30, 2016, 07:39:11 AM
Quote from: HVC on June 30, 2016, 07:09:23 AM
How can Russia's bombers pass through my air controlled zones and bomb me behind the lines? Am I doing something wrong?

I think you need to control their destination and you need intercept fighters in that destination zone to shoot them down. 
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: HVC on June 30, 2016, 08:12:47 AM
Well that's annoying.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on July 04, 2016, 11:23:37 AM
Coming back from a two week vacay and returning to the game. Still stuff that confuses me. Particularly with upgrades/ reinforcements and recrutiment.

For instance if I research from a Panzer I to a Panzer II, I go into my production queue and switch my Panzer 1 to Panzer II. Immediately it will say something like Upgrading 1000 units. Does this mean my recruitment of new units is now on hold until my Panzer 1s are all upgraded? I don't want that.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on July 04, 2016, 12:11:06 PM
Quote from: Josephus on July 04, 2016, 11:23:37 AM
Coming back from a two week vacay and returning to the game. Still stuff that confuses me. Particularly with upgrades/ reinforcements and recrutiment.

For instance if I research from a Panzer I to a Panzer II, I go into my production queue and switch my Panzer 1 to Panzer II. Immediately it will say something like Upgrading 1000 units. Does this mean my recruitment of new units is now on hold until my Panzer 1s are all upgraded? I don't want that.

It means your in field units currently have 1000 of the old design.  Depending on how you prioritize  the new design will go either to in field units or the recruits first.  Only if you are running a deficit in total units of that type (not the new design) would it potentially slow down recruitment.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on July 04, 2016, 01:37:39 PM
Quote from: frunk on July 04, 2016, 12:11:06 PM
Quote from: Josephus on July 04, 2016, 11:23:37 AM
Coming back from a two week vacay and returning to the game. Still stuff that confuses me. Particularly with upgrades/ reinforcements and recrutiment.

For instance if I research from a Panzer I to a Panzer II, I go into my production queue and switch my Panzer 1 to Panzer II. Immediately it will say something like Upgrading 1000 units. Does this mean my recruitment of new units is now on hold until my Panzer 1s are all upgraded? I don't want that.

It means your in field units currently have 1000 of the old design.  Depending on how you prioritize  the new design will go either to in field units or the recruits first.  Only if you are running a deficit in total units of that type (not the new design) would it potentially slow down recruitment.

How/where do I effect prioritization?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on July 04, 2016, 01:51:45 PM
Quote from: Josephus on July 04, 2016, 01:37:39 PM

How/where do I effect prioritization?

In the Recruit and Deploy Tab the reinforcement and upgrade panes have three circles in the upper right.  That determines the upgrade and reinforcement priority for units in the field.  For each division being trained they have similar circles that determine their priority.  If you edit a division design they also have priority circles.  If you click on the Settings button on a theater they also have the priority circles.

I think the hierarchy between these different priority settings goes Recruit and Deploy Tab, Theater setting and then Division design, but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on July 04, 2016, 02:38:52 PM
ok, thanks
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on July 06, 2016, 10:18:00 PM
In my first game as Japan, I failed to anticipate the Chinese events where factions unite against Japan.  I also failed to realize that my entire army was supplied through a single port.  Which was captured by the Chinese that I failed to cover.   :pinch:  China is so going to get the harshest of treatments after a restart.  :mad:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on July 08, 2016, 08:40:30 PM
I looked at the scoring system for the first time after many plays.  Apparently Paradox put as much thought into it as I did.  There's points for Air, Land, Naval, land area, industry and maybe one other I've forgotten.  Air is some mysterious "Air Superiority", land is number of divisions, naval is number of fleets, industry number of factories.  Each one could be multiplied by some factor.

The UK scored 10 points for naval for having 10 fleets, Germany scored 8, Soviet Union scored 77.  It's not number of ships just how many groups of ships you have.  So Germany could score more by splitting each of their 90 subs into their own fleet.
Land doesn't take into account division size, which can vary wildly.  The AI likes to split their force into many small divisions, so maybe it is playing toward that metric.
None of this matters much as scoring is dominated by the Air, which can easily be worth more than the rest of the categories combined (in the 300-400 range).
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on July 09, 2016, 08:23:30 AM
I am playing the USSR historical. I was actually quite happy with AI Germany at first. They did everything right. After Austria, Czechoslovakia,Poland, they DOWd the lowlands and took Holland and Belguim quickly. They went into France and got Vichy. I was worried about the Italians allowing the French and British to drop troops near Rome, but they kicked them out. Germany took Denmark. Then they began massing troops on my border. Hoorah! I anticipated Barbarossa. June 41 nothing. More troops. I think they outnumbered me 2-1 and still they came to the border. June 42 nothing. More troop buildups. they brought Romania, Hungary into Axis. June 43 nothing. Allies launched a small invastion into Sicily that was repelled. June 44 nothing. Spain joined Axis. Allies invaded Spain. It came to nothing. June 45 nothing. I decied to invade Iran and removed troops from the German border thinking this will bring them. Still nothing. Seems like a bug?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Richard Hakluyt on July 09, 2016, 08:26:13 AM
They are doing better than real Germany did in 1945 though  :hmm:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on July 09, 2016, 09:15:45 AM
I think the AI uses the National Focus tree to determine a lot of what they do.  If they happen to not go down the invade USSR then they won't.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on July 09, 2016, 10:32:31 AM
Quote from: frunk on July 09, 2016, 09:15:45 AM
I think the AI uses the National Focus tree to determine a lot of what they do.  If they happen to not go down the invade USSR then they won't.

Except I'm playing historical mode, so they should. And like I said, they did everything else right and in order.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Valmy on July 09, 2016, 11:13:20 AM
Can't you just start at a date right after Barbarossa occurred instead of having to wait for Germany to do everything right?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on July 09, 2016, 12:51:22 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 09, 2016, 11:13:20 AM
Can't you just start at a date right after Barbarossa occurred instead of having to wait for Germany to do everything right?

Not without getting into the game files? There are no start dates other than 36 and 39.

I figured out the problem. There's a caveat in t he German coding that it will only do go to war with USSR IF it's not at war with anybody at its borders. As it turns out it has a bit of territory in west africa that borders french territory. Hence no Barbarossa. ever.

Only fix is to load as Germany and DOW USSR and flip back to USSR, however I'm playing Ironman and can't do that :mad:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: crazy canuck on July 09, 2016, 01:26:06 PM
you could attack them
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on July 09, 2016, 03:37:51 PM
Quote from: Josephus on July 09, 2016, 08:23:30 AM
I am playing the USSR historical. I was actually quite happy with AI Germany at first. They did everything right. After Austria, Czechoslovakia,Poland, they DOWd the lowlands and took Holland and Belguim quickly. They went into France and got Vichy. I was worried about the Italians allowing the French and British to drop troops near Rome, but they kicked them out. Germany took Denmark. Then they began massing troops on my border. Hoorah! I anticipated Barbarossa. June 41 nothing. More troops. I think they outnumbered me 2-1 and still they came to the border. June 42 nothing. More troop buildups. they brought Romania, Hungary into Axis. June 43 nothing. Allies launched a small invastion into Sicily that was repelled. June 44 nothing. Spain joined Axis. Allies invaded Spain. It came to nothing. June 45 nothing. I decied to invade Iran and removed troops from the German border thinking this will bring them. Still nothing. Seems like a bug?
Germany's AI seems to know when it can't get away with invading USSR.  In my every game as Soviet Union, when I was ready for them, they chickened out, so I had to do the invasion.  In the one game when I wasn't quite ready, they fucked me up good and I abandoned the game.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on July 10, 2016, 10:49:10 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2016, 01:26:06 PM
you could attack them

yes. Though not when I'm playing historical.

I think, like I said, there's an annoying bug where GErmany won't attack USSR as long as it has a single African province bordering an Allied province, and the way Italy hands out territory to Germany, this happens often.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on July 10, 2016, 10:50:32 AM
Quote from: DGuller on July 09, 2016, 03:37:51 PM
Quote from: Josephus on July 09, 2016, 08:23:30 AM
I am playing the USSR historical. I was actually quite happy with AI Germany at first. They did everything right. After Austria, Czechoslovakia,Poland, they DOWd the lowlands and took Holland and Belguim quickly. They went into France and got Vichy. I was worried about the Italians allowing the French and British to drop troops near Rome, but they kicked them out. Germany took Denmark. Then they began massing troops on my border. Hoorah! I anticipated Barbarossa. June 41 nothing. More troops. I think they outnumbered me 2-1 and still they came to the border. June 42 nothing. More troop buildups. they brought Romania, Hungary into Axis. June 43 nothing. Allies launched a small invastion into Sicily that was repelled. June 44 nothing. Spain joined Axis. Allies invaded Spain. It came to nothing. June 45 nothing. I decied to invade Iran and removed troops from the German border thinking this will bring them. Still nothing. Seems like a bug?
Germany's AI seems to know when it can't get away with invading USSR.  In my every game as Soviet Union, when I was ready for them, they chickened out, so I had to do the invasion.  In the one game when I wasn't quite ready, they fucked me up good and I abandoned the game.

I doubt that's the case. In my case Germany outnumbers me and out techs me on the border. The reason, as I discovered, is that GErmany won't attack the USSR as long as it's at war with another country that borders it.  Often Germany has territory in Africa that borders Free French gterritory. 
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: crazy canuck on July 10, 2016, 01:54:29 PM
Quote from: Josephus on July 10, 2016, 10:49:10 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 09, 2016, 01:26:06 PM
you could attack them

yes. Though not when I'm playing historical.

I think, like I said, there's an annoying bug where GErmany won't attack USSR as long as it has a single African province bordering an Allied province, and the way Italy hands out territory to Germany, this happens often.

Ah, I haven't played an historical setting yet.  Looks like I will hold off on that due to your warning.  :)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on July 10, 2016, 02:27:13 PM
Quote from: Josephus on July 10, 2016, 10:50:32 AM
Quote from: DGuller on July 09, 2016, 03:37:51 PM
Quote from: Josephus on July 09, 2016, 08:23:30 AM
I am playing the USSR historical. I was actually quite happy with AI Germany at first. They did everything right. After Austria, Czechoslovakia,Poland, they DOWd the lowlands and took Holland and Belguim quickly. They went into France and got Vichy. I was worried about the Italians allowing the French and British to drop troops near Rome, but they kicked them out. Germany took Denmark. Then they began massing troops on my border. Hoorah! I anticipated Barbarossa. June 41 nothing. More troops. I think they outnumbered me 2-1 and still they came to the border. June 42 nothing. More troop buildups. they brought Romania, Hungary into Axis. June 43 nothing. Allies launched a small invastion into Sicily that was repelled. June 44 nothing. Spain joined Axis. Allies invaded Spain. It came to nothing. June 45 nothing. I decied to invade Iran and removed troops from the German border thinking this will bring them. Still nothing. Seems like a bug?
Germany's AI seems to know when it can't get away with invading USSR.  In my every game as Soviet Union, when I was ready for them, they chickened out, so I had to do the invasion.  In the one game when I wasn't quite ready, they fucked me up good and I abandoned the game.

I doubt that's the case. In my case Germany outnumbers me and out techs me on the border. The reason, as I discovered, is that GErmany won't attack the USSR as long as it's at war with another country that borders it.  Often Germany has territory in Africa that borders Free French gterritory.
I think you're right.  I played another game as the Soviets, and this time I was more or less ready for them but the Germans still attacked.  They didn't move very far, though I did have a bit of a difficulty containing them until rushing anti-tank guns and equipping my units with them.  Even then, they alone were suffering 4x my total casualties, so obviously they weren't really in shape to take me on.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on July 10, 2016, 02:28:13 PM
Aha.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on July 10, 2016, 09:59:54 PM
Two random thoughts:

Air combat doesn't work very well over water.  Assigning bombers to an area means they'll only fly when there's a target.  It doesn't matter how big or small a target is, as long as there's at least one the whole complement flies out.  Over land there's almost always a target with any area in conflict so they'll fly continuously.  Over water targets are much less consistent.  It looks like supply convoys won't attract their attention, but transport convoys or ships will.  If both sides have fighters assigned they'll beat the crap out of each other while their bombers flicker in and out, taking much fewer losses than their land targeting cousins (which already are far too little compared to fighters).  It looks like the best way to destroy the bombers is to establish air superiority and then bait the enemy bombers with cheap targets (minor country's division in a transport or sub) until they are reduced/eliminated.  This can take quite a while.

The mod Marching on your Stomach looks interesting.  Introduces supplies/fuel requirements for troops by using the attrition mechanism.  Supplies and fuel are equipment that you have to build in order to keep your divisions happy.  Supplies require steel, fuel requires oil.  Supplies and fuel both have very low reliability simulating their loss as units move/fight.  The oil requirement on building other equipment is removed.  It's neat but I think it needs to be extended to aircraft/ships to really work (he's working on it) and I'm worried that it will just mean the maintenance support will become an automatic add.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on July 16, 2016, 09:05:03 AM
In my German game, I found out just how good the Royal Navy is.  All my navies disappeared without a trace.  What the fuck?  Makes it really hard to play on Ironman mode if such bullshit happens.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on July 16, 2016, 02:55:38 PM
Naval warfare since the patch has been totally borked.  Royal Navy bothers you?  Just spam light cruisers, you'll execute it in a couple of engagements.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on July 16, 2016, 03:13:51 PM
All you really need are naval bombers.  They take care of any fleet problems.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on July 16, 2016, 05:57:22 PM
Quote from: frunk on July 16, 2016, 03:13:51 PM
All you really need are naval bombers.  They take care of any fleet problems.
Naval bombers are situational, light cruisers are fleet deleters everywhere they can operate.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Valmy on July 16, 2016, 11:57:28 PM
Naval combat must be all but impossible to simulate using this system. Paradox has had 14 years and four games to do it and they cannot even seem to do it adequately.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Grallon on July 17, 2016, 07:11:35 AM
I bought that yesterday.  I played as Canada, to be far away from the action while I fiddled around with the controls.  There was no Barbarossa in that game, Japan was a full fledged Axis member and had conquered all of India, Indochina and China.   When I joined the fray I in 1945 the Reich still controlled most of Northern Europe.  They did not capitulate even after Bremen, Hamburg and Hannover went up in nuclear fire in 1946.

Still, despite the streamlining of the mechanics, some basic actions like upgrading your armies or moving your air units seem overly complicated.  I shall explore some more.



G.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on July 17, 2016, 08:00:49 AM
I played a game with Germany in the 1939 scenario. After defeating Poland, I made France surrender in late 1939. I helped Italy a bit in Africa and in late 1940, I successfully conquered Britain in a naval invasion. My entire airforce controlled the channel and my puny navy even did some damage to the British fleet. Britain surrendered in late 1940 when my armies reached Scotland. The Soviets in my game look quite powerful though, but I guess once Japan has mopped up the last resistance in China, they don't stand a chance when we attack from both sides in 1941.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on July 17, 2016, 08:11:50 AM
Quote from: Grallon on July 17, 2016, 07:11:35 AM
Still, despite the streamlining of the mechanics, some basic actions like upgrading your armies or moving your air units seem overly complicated.  I shall explore some more.
Air warfare is a UI disaster, no doubt about it.  It also doesn't help that air mechanics are such that you need a shitload of small wings for most effective results, which runs counter to everything Paradox has tried to achieve in HOI4.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: crazy canuck on July 17, 2016, 08:52:45 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 17, 2016, 08:11:50 AM
Quote from: Grallon on July 17, 2016, 07:11:35 AM
Still, despite the streamlining of the mechanics, some basic actions like upgrading your armies or moving your air units seem overly complicated.  I shall explore some more.
Air warfare is a UI disaster, no doubt about it.  It also doesn't help that air mechanics are such that you need a shitload of small wings for most effective results, which runs counter to everything Paradox has tried to achieve in HOI4.

Yeah, every time I think of starting a game I think about the micro hell that is managing air forces and I do something else.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on July 17, 2016, 09:11:02 PM
I don't understand why air units couldn't be handled the same way as land units.  Why can't you have a template for the air wings, with default mission settings, and reinforcements for them handled much like reinforcements for tank units are handled?  Instead you have to basically define a template every time you want to deploy a wing.  Really dumbfounded by the design decisions there.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on July 18, 2016, 09:53:51 AM
Quote from: DGuller on July 17, 2016, 09:11:02 PM
I don't understand why air units couldn't be handled the same way as land units.  Why can't you have a template for the air wings, with default mission settings, and reinforcements for them handled much like reinforcements for tank units are handled?  Instead you have to basically define a template every time you want to deploy a wing.  Really dumbfounded by the design decisions there.

It's not that hard though. I just go "create new air wing" and cntrl click up to 50 planes from the reserves.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on July 18, 2016, 10:04:25 AM
Quote from: Josephus on July 18, 2016, 09:53:51 AM
Quote from: DGuller on July 17, 2016, 09:11:02 PM
I don't understand why air units couldn't be handled the same way as land units.  Why can't you have a template for the air wings, with default mission settings, and reinforcements for them handled much like reinforcements for tank units are handled?  Instead you have to basically define a template every time you want to deploy a wing.  Really dumbfounded by the design decisions there.

It's not that hard though. I just go "create new air wing" and cntrl click up to 50 planes from the reserves.
It's a whole bunch of clicks to mindlessly repeat, one wing at a time (you want to have multiple wings, even if it's the same airbase and region of operations).  And then you also have to select missions, operation hours, and minimum strength settings, one wing at a time as well, all of which usually stay the same regardless of circumstances.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on July 18, 2016, 10:10:30 AM
Ideally I'd like to set up air wing creation in the division builder, then be able to assign newly created air wings either to a region or to a leader (just like you can with divisions).  Air wings assigned to a leader would follow them as they moved, rebasing as necessary.

That would be sweet.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on July 18, 2016, 10:59:11 AM
I agree the UI with a lot of this kind of stuff is annoying.

The thing I hate the most in the early game is figuring out where all my fleets are, and re-organizing them.

Everytime I start a new game, now, I'm saving the initial set up so I won't have to keep doing it.

Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on July 18, 2016, 01:16:17 PM
Quote from: Josephus on July 18, 2016, 10:59:11 AM
I agree the UI with a lot of this kind of stuff is annoying.

The thing I hate the most in the early game is figuring out where all my fleets are, and re-organizing them.

Everytime I start a new game, now, I'm saving the initial set up so I won't have to keep doing it.
Just play Germany or the Soviets then.  ;)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: crazy canuck on July 19, 2016, 07:12:19 AM
Quote from: frunk on July 18, 2016, 10:10:30 AM
Ideally I'd like to set up air wing creation in the division builder, then be able to assign newly created air wings either to a region or to a leader (just like you can with divisions).  Air wings assigned to a leader would follow them as they moved, rebasing as necessary.

That would be sweet.

I agree that would be a huge improvement
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on July 19, 2016, 09:24:16 AM
I'm having my best game with HOI IV so far. And the reason is I'm playing in the ideal situation: Historical and as Italy.

Key to any ww2 game is German behaviour.

If you play ahistorical then Germany goes crazy DOWing anything that moves. By 1941 it self destructs.

If you play historical, Germany plays conservatively, DOWing everyone in order and only after other fronts are over. So it DOWs poland, then France, then the lowlands , Denmark and only after that Russia.
However, as I've said before, in historical, the problem is Barbarossa nearly never happens because AI Italy hands Germany African territory it takes from UK and France. Because of this Germany is in a state of perpetual war with France, even after continental France falls, and because of the way it is programmed won't go to war with Russia as long as it's at war with someone on its border.

So Playing as Italy, as I am now, I make sure Germany doesn't get any African territory and after France falls, it will go after Russia as it should.

Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Grallon on July 20, 2016, 05:04:29 PM
Well I played Germany until 1941 - after befriending Poland and securing a peaceful eastern border but as soon as Italy fumbled into Greece and I joined I got overwhelmed.  I had 130 divisions on the western front but to my surprise the enemy had air superiority from the get go.  I have no clue how to attack anyone - I seem to be losing everywhere except with the subs which are sinking some convoys.  I think I prefer the years of prep phase to the actual execution.  I'll restart and see if I can do any better.


G.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on July 21, 2016, 08:06:19 AM
My perfect historical game as Italy is not going according to plan anymore.

Yes, Germany invaded Russia in June, 1941. But apparently Japan joins that war, thus tossing history out the window and having Russia fight on two fronts.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: crazy canuck on July 21, 2016, 11:25:10 PM
Quote from: Josephus on July 21, 2016, 08:06:19 AM
My perfect historical game as Italy is not going according to plan anymore.

Yes, Germany invaded Russia in June, 1941. But apparently Japan joins that war, thus tossing history out the window and having Russia fight on two fronts.

That has happened in every game I have had.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on July 29, 2016, 07:30:02 AM
Finsihed my Italy game. Well, I quit it.

It was by far the best game I've had with HOI IV. Mostly because by playing Italy and playing historical, was able to prevent some of the weird stuff up to a point. As I said, everything went normally and pretty historical up to Barbarossa.
Then maybe because Japan got involved in that war, things started to change.
Kiev fell in Oct 42, Leningrad and Stalingrad in July 43 and in August Moscow fell. Russia capitulated completely in November 43. It got divided up haphazardly (as is common with pdox) between Italy, Germany, Japan Hungary, Romania and little bits of "Russian Empire". I (italy) got bits in the Crimea.

The USA DOWd Japan (and rest of Axis) in Dec 41. The Axis tide did change a bit then. At first the Allies launched invasion pockets here there and everywhere but were soundly defeated each time. They came after me in Sicily, Greence (which I had since 1940) and Africa. I was able to hold them off in Africa but started to run into supply issues, while they kept steam rolling. Soon I just held onto my small enclave in Suez.

Things werent' made easy for me because I think German went with "NO Exports" mode at this point which meant I had no one to give me steel and that obviously effected my production.
Also by 1946 everyone started joining the war. Switzerland joined Allies (and was annexed a week later). Sweden joined the Allies as did Mexcio.

I saw a small invasion in occupied Holland/Belguim but didn't pay attention, focussing more on Africa. When I looked up a few game months later, it seemed the Allies were gaining ground. I sent two-three divisions to hold the line and by 1946 the game became a bit of a WW1 style sitzkrieg. I held the line outside Koln. The Germans gained terriroty but then lost it again. Along with the Japanese I was able to hold the line around Suez.

At this point the game got boring so I quit.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on July 29, 2016, 07:38:36 AM
If you play the game long enough, the AI suicides itself by packing the frontlines with gazillions of units.  It looks scary, until you realize all the enemy allies are destroying each other's supplies, and can't actually do anything with those units.  Just make one medium or modern tank army and D them to death.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Grallon on July 31, 2016, 05:41:30 AM
This game frustrates me.  I can't seem to lay out battle plans properly, even though I've watched a number of how to vids on YouTube.  I mean they are drawn and the subsequent operations, there are divisions assigned to them, the tooltip tells me they're favorable to me yet when I execute them they falter after some initial advances.  So I delete them and redraw new ones according to my new positioning but after that it fails and my lines get breached.



G.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 31, 2016, 06:37:19 AM
I've found that using battleplans for small offensive operations with concentrated forces work pretty well, especially if you have a an army of reserves with the fallback-line plan present at your operation's starting point (a good use for the expeditionary forces your allies send you). Use panzers (usually under manual control) to pierce the front on specific places and execute encirclements. Make sure you have a lot of divisions (even if it means going a bit over supplylimit, but not too much or the enemy will eat you alive).
Having a modicum of success with it in my current try against the ussr where I used the battleplans to take the baltic regions (without human interference), the Ukraine (with me guiding the panzers), the Caucasus (spanish expeditionaries after Italy threw a 100 divisions over the strait :p). Now I'm battleplanning my way to Moscow.
In Africa Franco-Romanian expeditionary forces batlleplanned all the way to Capetown, starting in the Congo.
But it took some experimenting because, like you, the battleplans kept failing earlier
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: MadImmortalMan on August 05, 2016, 02:41:25 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 29, 2016, 07:38:36 AM
If you play the game long enough, the AI suicides itself by packing the frontlines with gazillions of units.  It looks scary, until you realize all the enemy allies are destroying each other's supplies, and can't actually do anything with those units.  Just make one medium or modern tank army and D them to death.

The Comintern always seems to die this way if you leave them long enough. Especially if they have Chinese states in the faction. Once I see Sinkiang in the European front, I know it's time to set the thing on autopilot. I conquered all of Asia as Greece yesterday while I was out shopping.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on September 03, 2016, 10:07:53 AM
Anyone still playng this?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on September 03, 2016, 07:10:09 PM
I check out the new mods and give it a spin every once in a while.  Mostly I'm waiting for the next patch.  The Black ICE mod just came out, and it's about as over the top as I expected even if it is incomplete.  I don't think I really want to manage factories for uniforms, but apparently they felt that it was important.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: mongers on September 03, 2016, 07:38:56 PM
Quote from: frunk on September 03, 2016, 07:10:09 PM
I check out the new mods and give it a spin every once in a while.  Mostly I'm waiting for the next patch.  The Black ICE mod just came out, and it's about as over the top as I expected even if it is incomplete.  I don't think I really want to manage factories for uniforms, but apparently they felt that it was important.

Well that's were Napoleon failed, didn't he.  :D
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Phillip V on September 04, 2016, 06:00:32 PM
I am waiting for patches+DLC.  I bought the Field Marshal pre-order.

Currently focused on CK2 and then EU4.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on October 06, 2016, 03:45:34 AM
This was rather interesting with the comparison across all the iterations.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hoi4-development-diary-october-5th-2016.972485/
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Phillip V on October 06, 2016, 08:58:22 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2016, 03:45:34 AM
This was rather interesting with the comparison across all the iterations.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hoi4-development-diary-october-5th-2016.972485/

Agree.  I want to see more Dev Diaries like this for all games.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on October 07, 2016, 09:06:12 AM
They've certainly come a long way graphics wise. HOI 1 is almost quaint.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Phillip V on November 29, 2016, 07:19:14 PM
Anybody still playing HoI4 or waiting for 1.3 patch?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Alcibiades on December 01, 2016, 07:37:43 PM
Waiting for 1.7.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on December 01, 2016, 07:46:46 PM
Quote from: Phillip V on November 29, 2016, 07:19:14 PM
Anybody still playing HoI4 or waiting for 1.3 patch?

i kinda stopped.

At first it was just a pause to play EUIV, and now I realized how much better EUIV is.

That said, I do have a free DLC coming and the patch, so I'll give it another go around Xmas.

It's not a bad game, but it becomes farily repetitive after a while.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: crazy canuck on December 01, 2016, 11:37:08 PM
I am waiting for the patch and for Josephus to report back on his impression of the patch.  :)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on December 02, 2016, 08:27:34 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 01, 2016, 11:37:08 PM
I am waiting for the patch and for Josephus to report back on his impression of the patch.  :)
No nudity  :(
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on December 19, 2016, 09:50:11 PM
I've played a bit of the latest patch (without the DLC).  The AI is a good bit better, as in it is less prone to complete stupidity.  There's a few UI improvements (Combat Ledger is nice, Air unit creation is better), but overall not a huge leap forward.  Worth a try if you were only mildly bothered by the problems last time you played, otherwise wait for future patches.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on January 03, 2017, 02:05:14 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 01, 2016, 11:37:08 PM
I am waiting for the patch and for Josephus to report back on his impression of the patch.  :)

So played from 1936-Jan 1 1945 as canada with new DLC. My original verdict of "this game COULD be good if only..." still stands.

Frist off: I'll run through a quick point form AAR of world events in this non-historical game.

France turned commie. Not sure when.
January 40 Germany invaded Poland. Britain didn't honour it's guarantee
in Feb. They annexed Poland and all the Baltic states. They didn't honor the ribbentrop pact.
March 1940 Start of Barbarossa. (this includes war with Commie France)
April 40 Britain finally dows Germany. Note WW2 is officially the Japanese-Chinese War.
July 40 France capitulates
Jan 41 Moscow falls
Feb 41 Treaty of Yalta annexed USSR and divided it between Germany and Japan. Yes. The USSR fell in 11 months.
April 42 India capitulates

And that was basically it. The USA joined in 1941 as well. Nat Spain joined Axis and took Gibraltar.

The problem here, similar to previous itinerations of this game, is the lack of a strong naval invasion. The Brits currently (1944-45) have about 150 divisions in England marching up and down the square. I have no idea how much USA has. They launch occasional invasions of Spain from Africa but don't create a beachhead, never reinforce, and eventually die. Rinse, lather, repeat. There's a lot of fighting in Africa amongst all nations. Fun to see Norwegians battle Japs in Liberia.

I, as Canada, can only do so much. The current Tech Tree for Canada forces you to either go production heavy (factory building) or manpower (Quebec conscription laws). I also did not realize that ending the depression was the bottom of a long chanin of an events branch. I assumed WW2 would end it. either way, I currently have zero manpower.

I launched one Dieppe style raid into Gibraltar, hoping the USA and Britain would reinforce my beach head but they didn't and I was beaten back. I have about 20-25 divisions and can't do much with them now.

The only success I had was staging a coup in Sicily. I now own Sicily, but with supply thin (not sure if not owning Gibraltar makes things worse supply wise) and no Allied help, I expect to be beaten back any day now.


Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on January 11, 2017, 02:36:05 AM
I've taken a stab at this.  I don't know how to convert civilian factories to military ones.  Fortunately WWII seems to be taking care of itself.  Germany and Japan seem to be waring war on the Soviet Union and the Allies all at once.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on January 11, 2017, 10:46:10 AM
I don't think you want to convert civilian factories to military ones, unless you're either desperate or have done everything with civilian factories you would ever want to.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on January 11, 2017, 04:27:17 PM
It's in the construction screen...I think. Same screen you use to build docks and stuff. At the bottom.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on January 11, 2017, 04:31:20 PM
I think the only time you would want to convert a civilian to military (or vice versa) would be if you've run out of space for building factories.  Otherwise it makes sense to just build another factory of the appropriate type.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on January 11, 2017, 09:21:19 PM
Okay, I tried again, but it took forever to build any factories.  And WWII just sorted itself out.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on February 02, 2017, 09:48:00 AM
I've pretty much learned how to play the game.  It's fun, better than the previous incarnations.  Only beef so far is that that drawing front lines and offensive lines can be wonky.

I played as Germany, and decided to conquer Poland before Czechoslovakia.  Japan got in a war with both the Allies and the Comintern and joined a faction led by Italy.  As the Russians were fighting in Manchuria, I took advantage and conquered the Soviet Union in a year and a half.  The Comintern (which included most of the Chinese Cliques, was divided up between Germany and Japan.  In 41 I invaded France and the low countries (while most of their armies were fighting in China.  Britain and France united as one power.  I was playing with a Mod, some sort of Hearts of Iron improvement thing, but it's not very impressive.  I don't know if that's the reason the AI is so dumb or it is dumb by default.  For instance, the AI never recruits individuals to improve their Political power points, so they have few of the important bonuses you get from advisors or companies. 
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on February 02, 2017, 10:14:56 AM
yeah the offensive lines gets very confusing, very quickly, especially with a big front like Russia. After a while, it's just arrows all over the place. I was playing as Russia recently and many of my units were getting encircled, a long way from where I drew the lines, so I'm not sure what they were doing there in the first place.

Russia in this game is no match for Germany I find. I played it twice, once historical and once non-historical, and each time Germany captured Moscow within 6-8 months of launching Barbarossa.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Phillip V on February 05, 2017, 11:18:53 AM
Any good mods fix the game's above issues?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on February 06, 2017, 03:24:14 PM
There are some AI mods that do a pretty good job of improving the intelligence of the opposition.  There are also Multiplayer and single player mods that are designed around making things competitive by giving the AI bonuses and structuring division and build design.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on February 06, 2017, 04:45:57 PM
I'm running into a game breaking feature.  It can get awfully dull.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on February 25, 2017, 07:55:10 AM
Hearts of Anime mod.  :lol:  :bleeding:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=797734694&searchtext=

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.akamai.steamusercontent.com%2Fugc%2F158018337140138400%2F7920D0EC06BCD0157A2C7A3A01C4B92375F70353%2F&hash=c2746c27ceb56b8c2532975acc03cdf86826081a)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.akamai.steamusercontent.com%2Fugc%2F158018337140109544%2F6EBAAF695EB8ED0D1E266882BC7DF64F1260855C%2F&hash=7bcb20f8582e9c3739d18d5667674c44602ca83d)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.akamai.steamusercontent.com%2Fugc%2F158018337145315319%2F9BEF7FC70762C707E838E7FA76AB86EF4F0700C7%2F&hash=93dd9056d38336712aa8704382e76c9206e76d0c)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.akamai.steamusercontent.com%2Fugc%2F158018337145314661%2F76F3F3E5FCF866048E59701E470071D3345F3EFA%2F&hash=18164ac6ff650589a1cbd687cf8e2c750c852fe9)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.akamai.steamusercontent.com%2Fugc%2F158018337140111396%2FD04A06C72A83FFF9F7E2EC5343BB4F488528010C%2F&hash=ef55d0b947114907e84f9bcc1ae30256506d9da5)

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.akamai.steamusercontent.com%2Fugc%2F158018337140114011%2F106913877111DFB8EA65F1D667D70650C7F2DB51%2F&hash=1c820ffc25fb4156ec1f69b6811c1c432fc97968)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on February 25, 2017, 08:48:27 AM
Looks decent.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Lettow77 on February 25, 2017, 10:27:02 AM
 I disagree. When games like Daiteikoku have already done the legwork for you, and there is existing fan-art versions for almost all of these personages, it feels inexcusable to use only tangentially related characters as stand-ins. Satsuki as the leader of Japan might be the most grevious, but what they did with the soviets is pretty bad as well.

Phoenix Wright as Patton? For that matter, leaving men in at all is distasteful and undermines the purity of the work. This lacks dedication and reeks of having been done by pig disgusting foreigners.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Neil on February 25, 2017, 10:44:36 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on February 25, 2017, 10:27:02 AM
For that matter, leaving men in at all is distasteful and undermines the purity of the work. This lacks dedication and reeks of having been done by pig disgusting foreigners.
Trying to wash men out of history and out of the medium is a mistake.  The obsession with moe has to stop.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on February 25, 2017, 11:05:52 AM
Quote from: Lettow77 on February 25, 2017, 10:27:02 AM
I disagree. When games like Daiteikoku have already done the legwork for you, and there is existing fan-art versions for almost all of these personages, it feels inexcusable to use only tangentially related characters as stand-ins. Satsuki as the leader of Japan might be the most grevious, but what they did with the soviets is pretty bad as well.

Phoenix Wright as Patton? For that matter, leaving men in at all is distasteful and undermines the purity of the work. This lacks dedication and reeks of having been done by pig disgusting foreigners.

Well I certainly bow to your superior knowledge in the field. :)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on February 25, 2017, 11:15:42 AM
Quote from: Syt on February 25, 2017, 07:55:10 AM
Hearts of Anime mod.  :lol:  :bleeding:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=797734694&searchtext=

Sometimes I get sad thinking about the nuclear war that Trump will start.  Then I see things like that and realize it would probably be for the better.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Ed Anger on February 25, 2017, 12:44:45 PM
Guderian in a SS uniform? OUTRAGOUS
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on May 13, 2017, 04:41:40 PM
I think the most recent patch screwed up the game.  In the last two games, China drove the Japanese off the mainland and in my last one Poland went to war with Latvia, captured Berlin and up ruling most of Hungary and Czechoslovakia.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on July 03, 2017, 01:29:14 PM
Latest patch (without DLC) seems decent.  Air is actually manageable now, and the AI is, although not smart, significantly less dumb.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on July 06, 2017, 03:00:43 PM
Less dumb in some place, much more dumb in others.  If you want to win the war now, just stand pat and let AI suicide into you.  It doesn't seem to be deterred by running out of men and materiel, or total lack of progress.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on July 06, 2017, 03:32:55 PM
Quote from: DGuller on July 06, 2017, 03:00:43 PM
Less dumb in some place, much more dumb in others.  If you want to win the war now, just stand pat and let AI suicide into you.  It doesn't seem to be deterred by running out of men and materiel, or total lack of progress.

so they finally managed a WW1 AI
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on July 11, 2017, 07:25:28 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on May 13, 2017, 04:41:40 PM
I think the most recent patch screwed up the game.  In the last two games, China drove the Japanese off the mainland and in my last one Poland went to war with Latvia, captured Berlin and up ruling most of Hungary and Czechoslovakia.

In my one post patch game, I didn't see that at all. Japan beat China.
The interesting thing I saw, is that for once AI Germany captured Norway.

It's annoying, though, that Japan always fights Russia as part of Axis....there needs to be a NA treaty in the focus trees.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: mongers on July 21, 2017, 01:57:05 PM
Finally HOI naval AI is getting a little less inaccurate:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40682442 (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40682442)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on August 04, 2017, 01:01:48 PM
meh...this game is annoying. playing as USSR, captured Berlin, Germany was almost defeated; but then the Japanese attacked from the east, gave provinces to Germany and the German Reich suddenly grew out of nowhere east of Stalingrad.
Before I knew it, Germany was at the gates of Moscow, only from the East--which makes the whole "move factories to the east event" a waste of time.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Valmy on August 04, 2017, 01:33:37 PM
Quote from: Josephus on August 04, 2017, 01:01:48 PM
meh...this game is annoying. playing as USSR, captured Berlin, Germany was almost defeated; but then the Japanese attacked from the east, gave provinces to Germany and the German Reich suddenly grew out of nowhere east of Stalingrad.
Before I knew it, Germany was at the gates of Moscow, only from the East--which makes the whole "move factories to the east event" a waste of time.

:blink:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on August 04, 2017, 01:39:24 PM
Quote from: Josephus on August 04, 2017, 01:01:48 PM
meh...this game is annoying. playing as USSR, captured Berlin, Germany was almost defeated; but then the Japanese attacked from the east, gave provinces to Germany and the German Reich suddenly grew out of nowhere east of Stalingrad.
Before I knew it, Germany was at the gates of Moscow, only from the East--which makes the whole "move factories to the east event" a waste of time.
You have to check your country once in a while, make sure that it isn't occupied by the enemy.  It's pretty important.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on August 04, 2017, 09:53:59 PM
Quote from: DGuller on August 04, 2017, 01:39:24 PM
Quote from: Josephus on August 04, 2017, 01:01:48 PM
meh...this game is annoying. playing as USSR, captured Berlin, Germany was almost defeated; but then the Japanese attacked from the east, gave provinces to Germany and the German Reich suddenly grew out of nowhere east of Stalingrad.
Before I knew it, Germany was at the gates of Moscow, only from the East--which makes the whole "move factories to the east event" a waste of time.
You have to check your country once in a while, make sure that it isn't occupied by the enemy.  It's pretty important.

Now you tell me!
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on August 25, 2017, 02:28:49 AM
Got a new PC with a stupid AMD card now the game no worky with the most recent patch. :(
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: mongers on January 02, 2018, 05:24:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 25, 2017, 02:28:49 AM
Got a new PC with a stupid AMD card now the game no worky with the most recent patch. :(

Following on from this is Hearts of Iron 3 worth a go?

As I don't like the look of 4 and I think my PC would struggle with it, also might well have the same problem as Raz anyway.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: crazy canuck on January 02, 2018, 05:32:01 PM
Quote from: mongers on January 02, 2018, 05:24:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 25, 2017, 02:28:49 AM
Got a new PC with a stupid AMD card now the game no worky with the most recent patch. :(

Following on from this is Hearts of Iron 3 worth a go?


No.  I don't think that ever worked
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: mongers on January 02, 2018, 05:39:05 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on January 02, 2018, 05:32:01 PM
Quote from: mongers on January 02, 2018, 05:24:36 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 25, 2017, 02:28:49 AM
Got a new PC with a stupid AMD card now the game no worky with the most recent patch. :(

Following on from this is Hearts of Iron 3 worth a go?


No.  I don't think that ever worked

Thanks CC for the quick reply. :cheers:

Day of the Tentacle it is instead.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on March 11, 2018, 08:57:44 AM
Latest patch is a big improvement.  The two most significant in my eyes are being able to attach air units to Armies and AI performance.  Managing Air assets isn't the massive headache it was before.  The AI conducts counter attacks at weak points quite effectively and isn't constantly shuffling units.  It can still be fooled but it's a big improvement on the "assign armies to area, attack" method of winning.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on March 11, 2018, 06:07:59 PM
Apparently 60% off this weekend.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on April 17, 2018, 10:37:36 AM
Been playing this game a lot the last month. I really, really want to like it. But......not sure. Too many annoying things.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on April 18, 2018, 09:29:35 PM
The Expert AI mod helps.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on April 19, 2018, 06:01:07 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 18, 2018, 09:29:35 PM
The Expert AI mod helps.

might try it
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: KRonn on April 20, 2018, 06:50:00 PM
I've been playing HOI4 lately. I've always liked it, really liked the building phases and research also. Playing a recent game as the Soviets. The Germans attacked over two months ago and they've made gains but are finding it very slow going.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on April 22, 2018, 01:35:01 PM
I find in current version, the Italians seem too buffed. In my current game as England, they occupied all France, before Germany finished off Belgium  :huh: (doesn't help that France capitulated too quickly; Paris wasn't even taken. I, as England, had troops in Paris, which all got obliterated once France capped.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on April 22, 2018, 04:17:18 PM
I think it's more a function of Germany being debuffed.  Italians continue to die in droves, it's just that Germans get stuck in Benelux far more often now.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on April 22, 2018, 04:29:17 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 22, 2018, 04:17:18 PM
I think it's more a function of Germany being debuffed.  Italians continue to die in droves, it's just that Germans get stuck in Benelux far more often now.

Are they friends with Benelux?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on April 24, 2018, 11:25:44 AM
It effects the game so much. If France caps to Italy, then you don't get Vichy France, which, ironically, is bad for Italy in Africa.

Also, when this happens, Germans don't seem to base their planes in France, which means England doesn't really have to worry much about air attacks.

My other beef (well, one of several others) is that even on "historical", Nationalist always joins the war. Even once when Republican Spain won the civil war, they joined the allies. Either way it's bad for the allies, because Nationalist Spain gobbles Gibraltar, which in connection with Nat Spain in North Africa, blocks the mediterranean to Allied traffic. When Republican Spain wins the civil war and then joins the war, then Axis-occupied France sweeps through Spain in a matter of weeks and then takes Gibraltar.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: KRonn on May 02, 2018, 10:24:29 AM
I've  played two games as the Soviets up to Barbarossa. Germans have done very well, advanced quickly, in both games.  They easily rolled over Poland, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg months before historical dates. Took Norway, and in one game took Sweden. Yugoslavia fell.

Germans invaded the Soviet Union in summer 1940 in both games, a year before historical. I restarted my first game as the Soviets because I had just started playing the game again and was getting accustomed to it and playing the Russian side. Second game I'm still playing.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on May 02, 2018, 12:38:08 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 22, 2018, 04:17:18 PM
I think it's more a function of Germany being debuffed.  Italians continue to die in droves, it's just that Germans get stuck in Benelux far more often now.


I was playing the Expert AI on, and this happened to me while playing Germany.  Apperently tanks have been weakened which really weakens Germany since their Doctrine is heavily reliant on tanks.  Enventually I just left all the heavy lifting up to Italy and swooped in at the last moment to capture Paris.

My God, that's pathetic.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on May 03, 2018, 09:46:54 PM
Quote from: KRonn on May 02, 2018, 10:24:29 AM
I've  played two games as the Soviets up to Barbarossa. Germans have done very well, advanced quickly, in both games.  They easily rolled over Poland, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg months before historical dates. Took Norway, and in one game took Sweden. Yugoslavia fell.

Germans invaded the Soviet Union in summer 1940 in both games, a year before historical. I restarted my first game as the Soviets because I had just started playing the game again and was getting accustomed to it and playing the Russian side. Second game I'm still playing.
You need to station units on the border with Germany, as many as you can muster, otherwise Germans can break the NAP early.  Time is on your side, so you want to delay the war as much as possible.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on July 02, 2018, 04:11:18 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 29, 2018, 02:30:14 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 29, 2018, 09:18:16 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 29, 2018, 08:50:03 AM
I read the beginner's guide (and the Italy guide as that's the nation in the tutorial) and started playing the tutorial. It felt like a lot of work. :Embarrass:

I agree, though it felt like less work than HoI3.

Just 'finished' tutorial. I see that it taught me about say 20% of the interface? :D

I've finally played this a fair bit with a continued post tutorial Italy campaign. I did break down and do something I never do - I watched a video tutorial by quill. He said in it, that really seemed quite true, which is that at least for beginner play, you don't really need to know that all the little fiddly bits are about. I've no idea about a lot of the differences between the exact same type but different model of plane (so say different fighters in the same era) but that didn't really matter.

My Italy campaign went fairly well in WWII. I founded my own faction comprised of Romania, Greece and Bulgaria after I ate Yugoslavia and disavowed Germany. Italy was thrust into the fray when Romania was split by its scripted civil war and suddenly found myself with a wide front on Romanian, Hungarian and Austrian border. Managed to hold Germany back enough while the Allies marched through to Berlin.

Unfortunately, having Romania in my faction proved my undoing as the Soviets wanted their land. When I made a play to take out Turkey, the USSR moved on Romania and also went to defend Turkey who joined Comintern after I declare war. While I managed to kill Turkey and the Turkish Empire was reborn, we ultimately were all swept under the red tide. When I quit playing, it was as a puppeted Italian Union.  One thing that struck me as odd was that nothing happened with my generals. All of them that had been actively pressing Fascism on the world were now happy to fight for the Communist side.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on July 02, 2018, 04:21:15 PM
It's annoying that you can't do anything with the generals even if you wanted to.  Playing as Soviet Union, it gets really tiresome to have to keep scrolling past the retard threesome of Kulik/Budyonny/Voroshilov every time you have to assign someone.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on July 02, 2018, 04:22:49 PM
Sounds like a prime area for DLC. :D
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on July 02, 2018, 05:20:19 PM
after owning the game for two years, I've come to the conclusion, it's not very good.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on July 02, 2018, 06:13:01 PM
That may well be.

One very strange thing was that after just a couple years influence as Italy, I turned the US 45% Fascist. :wacko:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on July 21, 2018, 01:24:40 AM
Played my first real HoI4 game. As Germany I started building mot. and tank Divisions. Hungary rebuilt the Austro-Hungarian empire (plus Czechoslovakia). I ended up allied with them, Italy, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Spain, and the USSR. In 1943 Japan also joined. France, Scandinavia, Belgium/Netherlands got steamrolled, and then ... yeah. Even ran out of National Focus options.

AI kept trying ineffective amphibious landings in France, Netherlands, and Spain. And I couldn't be bothered to sort out my production/resources to prepare an invasion of the UK. Considering I had only limited ideas of what I was doing and bungled a lot I think this was somewhat successful (though my allies did most of the heavy lifting). I'm not sure I like how the AI allies send their troops around. I had Japanese divisions and air wings defending the Channel Coast in Europe and Spanish troops fighting in Mongolia.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on July 21, 2018, 02:40:45 AM
Trying to shift your industry to naval construction and going from land power to naval power is one of the most tedious elements of the game.  National focuses are about getting you (and more importantly the AI) into the war.  You tend to go through them by mid-war.  You kinda co-opted your main enemy.  The fun of playing Germany is fighting in the Soviet Union.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on July 21, 2018, 02:42:36 AM
Yeah, I wanted to Anschluss, Hungary got there first. I wanted Sudeten, Hungary gobbles up Czechoslovakia. I wanted to Danzig or War, I have too few troops (oops!). So I maneuvered myself into a stupid spot.

I suppose the reasonable thing would be to go after the UK and Africa and then the USA.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josquius on July 21, 2018, 03:00:51 AM
I tried a game last night. Picked Japan as I figured it would give stuff to do early on without having to prepare for 3 years.

I really  don't get it. At all. :(
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Threviel on March 08, 2019, 09:12:53 AM
So, Man the Guns released. Anyone tried it? I imagine it to be horrible in MP with all the ship building micro management, although it makes 36-40 a bit more interesting.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on March 08, 2019, 10:10:16 PM
Quote from: Threviel on March 08, 2019, 09:12:53 AM
So, Man the Guns released. Anyone tried it? I imagine it to be horrible in MP with all the ship building micro management, although it makes 36-40 a bit more interesting.
The naval micromanagement has really killed my boner for this game.  They missed the sweet spot by a mile, and forgot what the scope of the game is.  Maybe I'll give it another shot sometime and get into the swing of things, but for now I just don't feel like playing it.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on March 08, 2019, 11:30:24 PM
Quote from: DGuller on March 08, 2019, 10:10:16 PM
Quote from: Threviel on March 08, 2019, 09:12:53 AM
So, Man the Guns released. Anyone tried it? I imagine it to be horrible in MP with all the ship building micro management, although it makes 36-40 a bit more interesting.
The naval micromanagement has really killed my boner for this game.  They missed the sweet spot by a mile, and forgot what the scope of the game is.  Maybe I'll give it another shot sometime and get into the swing of things, but for now I just don't feel like playing it.


Yeah, I'm in the same boat.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Solmyr on March 09, 2019, 01:43:48 AM
So, that ship has sailed?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Threviel on March 09, 2019, 03:17:53 AM
I looked forward to the battle of the Atlantic now that the naval aspect was to be bettered. I had fun preparing, I rebuilt a lot of older ships to escort vessels, frigates, cruisers and escort carriers. The plan was to have my modern ships do surface warfare and the older ships protect the convoys, kind of like in real life,

So I set up a surface fleet theater in Scapa and an Atlantic command theater on the west coast. The plan was to have a reserve fleet and some 5-6 task forces in a fleet based around escort carriers automatically repairing and reinforcing. So far so good, great fun was had.

And then war started, and it became micro-management hell. Apparently I can't cover too many sea zones without splitting my task forces up into several fleets each under a separate admiral. And the task forces did not automatically do shit. And I do not want to go over every class of building vessel when my radar or whatever is updated and set up a new production for every class. Now, I have a great interest in naval stuff and this DLC really ticked my boner, but damn it's just too much work.

Not to mention the silly ship builder, it's too complex for a strategic game and far too trivial for a naval sim. Like DGuller said, they missed the sweet spot by a mile.

I had a nice Prussia game going in EUIV when MtG was released. I think I will go back to it now. HoI4 can wait another year and another DLC.

Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on March 09, 2019, 08:18:59 AM
The task forces do automatically do shit, but you have to set them up.

You need to set what the force composition of the task force is (not just put the ships in the task force), turn on automatic replacement and then you need to create reserve fleets that will replenish them when they get low.

Properly set up it reduces micromanagement to almost nothing, but it takes a few steps to set it up (none of which is properly explained).

I haven't gotten the DLC yet though, the base game has the task forces and task force management though.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Threviel on March 09, 2019, 08:38:30 AM
Meh, I conquered Silesia instead.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 28, 2019, 09:23:41 AM
All four DLC are currently available on Steam for $32.27.  Is that worth it?  I have mixed, but slightly positive, feelings about the vanilla game.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: grumbler on November 30, 2019, 12:09:57 PM
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 28, 2019, 09:23:41 AM
All four DLC are currently available on Steam for $32.27.  Is that worth it?  I have mixed, but slightly positive, feelings about the vanilla game.

I enjoyed the naval/naval tech stuff, but the AI is horrible at it (as it is in most things).  The other DLC are definitely worth it, if you enjoyed the base game.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on November 30, 2019, 04:09:02 PM
Quote from: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on November 28, 2019, 09:23:41 AM
All four DLC are currently available on Steam for $32.27.  Is that worth it?  I have mixed, but slightly positive, feelings about the vanilla game.

None of the DLC are essential, the patches have had the big improvements.  If one of the DLC targets an area that you have interest in it is worth it, but otherwise give it a miss.

I generally wait for the DLC to be half price or more off before buying them, and it feels like a reasonable price then.  I'm not sure how that works out for the bundle.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on December 01, 2019, 12:03:41 AM
Quote from: grumbler on November 30, 2019, 12:09:57 PM
I enjoyed the naval/naval tech stuff, but the AI is horrible at it (as it is in most things).  The other DLC are definitely worth it, if you enjoyed the base game.

Quote from: frunk
None of the DLC are essential, the patches have had the big improvements.  If one of the DLC targets an area that you have interest in it is worth it, but otherwise give it a miss.

I generally wait for the DLC to be half price or more off before buying them, and it feels like a reasonable price then.  I'm not sure how that works out for the bundle.

The sale has each individual DLC, except Man the Guns, at 50% off; Man the Guns is 33% off.  The bundle discount would effectively make Man The Guns 50% off as well.

Sounds like I should pull the trigger.  Thanks!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: KRonn on December 11, 2019, 08:15:37 PM
I like HOL4 and MTG but the management of naval units took some getting accustomed to. They continue to tweak and change/update.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on February 03, 2020, 02:36:16 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPYWp-KXkAA4GKk?format=jpg&name=small)

:bleeding:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 02:38:12 PM
I mean ok maybe forming an Islamic Caliphate might not be too crazy...but Al-Andalus? WTF?

Does this mean we can also recreate the Byzantine Empire in HOI IV? :lol:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on February 03, 2020, 02:45:50 PM
Well yes that's been possible for quite some time...
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 02:49:02 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 03, 2020, 02:45:50 PM
Well yes that's been possible for quite some time...

Seriously? Well then I guess forming Al-Andalus isn't out of bounds if we are already that crazy.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Barrister on February 03, 2020, 02:54:58 PM
I guess if you're still playing HOI4 at this point you've probably conquered the world as each of the major powers a few times so you're looking for a more extreme challenge...

But honestly how would you even go about such a thing?  What country would you even be?  Turkey maybe?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 02:57:50 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 03, 2020, 02:54:58 PM
I guess if you're still playing HOI4 at this point you've probably conquered the world as each of the major powers a few times so you're looking for a more extreme challenge...

But honestly how would you even go about such a thing?  What country would you even be?  Turkey maybe?

Nationalist Spain who converts to Sunni Islam. Francisco Franco reveals he is the scion of the Umayyads and he just competed his centuries long masterplan.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on February 03, 2020, 02:59:41 PM
Dev Diary.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/hoi4-dev-diary-formables-and-releasables.1312060/

QuoteBut perhaps players wish to live out an alternate history where the Naha Prophecy was fulfilled and Kamehameha united the Pacific several years earlier. With the Polynesian Empire game rule, Hawaii will begin the game having already conquered the entirety of the Polynesian Islands and built up a fair-sized industry.

(https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?attachments/polynesia-010-png.540222/)

QuoteSpain can of course be fractured from the start of the game by selecting the appropriate option in the game menu. However, I noticed Catalonia, the Basque Country, and Galicia simply weren't enough to make Iberia look "shattered" so I took the liberty of adding an "11th of November" game rule, and I will leave it for you all to speculate what that option does.

(https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/527815/Spanish%20Fragmentation.png)

QuoteWhen it comes to the second formable, one must be opportunistic and take full advantage of the instability in Spain and Portugal. The Moorish people once reigned sovereign over all of Iberia, and owners of La Resistance will be able to restore the long-dead state of Al-Andalus.

(https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?attachments/andalusia-conditions-png.540227/)

Andalusia was once an Islamic Sultanate that ruled from the Iberian peninsula and a beacon of the Islamic world. Through struggles with the Catholic kingdoms in the medieval era, the Andalusians would slowly be pushed out of Iberia, ending with the conquest of the Emirate of Granada in 1520. However, the Moorish people continue to exist to this day in Morocco, Tunisia, Libya, and Algeria, many of whom are descendants from Moorish refugees fleeing the Spanish Reconquista.

Andalusia will be formable by any of the North African countries; Morocco, Tunisia, Western Sahara, Algeria, or Libya. In order to form this tag, one must occupy a large portion of both Spain and Portugal's southern states and forming the tag grants cores on the entirety of the Iberian subcontinent.

But that isn't the end of Andalusia. Similar to Byzantium's "triumph" decisions, Andalusia will be able to sweep across the Mediterranean and beyond, restoring their old claims and titles.

(https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?attachments/andalusia-decision-2-png.540229/)

If a player can enact all decisions relating to the Andalusian conquests of North Africa and the Med, they will be able to press on for Egypt and Arabia and declare themselves the Umayyad Caliphate reborn, granting cores on the Arabian Peninsula.

(https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?attachments/andalusia-decision-3-png.540230/)

Upon doing so, Andalusia will unlock their final set of decisions, allowing them to restore the entire former claims and titles of the Umayyad Caliphate, effectively reuinifying the Islamic world.

(https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?attachments/andalusia-decision-4-png.540433/)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 03:01:57 PM
I wish they would spend some time making it be a better simulation of World War II but hey whatever.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on February 03, 2020, 03:17:50 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 03:01:57 PM
I wish they would spend some time making it be a better simulation of World War II but hey whatever.

That's never been their thing though. Even back in HOI2 when people started complaining about that, their response was "it's not a WW2 game. It's a Grand Strategy Sandbox that starts in 1936."
I gave up on the HOI series. It just isn't my thing.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 03:21:21 PM
Then why start it in 1936? If you just wanted a grand strategy game of this era 1920 would be a far superior starting date.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Barrister on February 03, 2020, 03:22:48 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 03:21:21 PM
Then why start it in 1936? If you just wanted a grand strategy game of this era 1920 would be a far superior starting date.

I think you know why they start in 1936.

(https://media.gettyimages.com/videos/1930s-adolf-hitler-smiling-video-id652384168?s=640x640)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on February 03, 2020, 03:23:58 PM
Tell me honestly: is that the face of a murderer?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Barrister on February 03, 2020, 03:24:39 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 03, 2020, 03:23:58 PM
Tell me honestly: is that the face of a murderer?

:yes:

And what a murderer he was!
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on February 03, 2020, 03:32:00 PM
It is very important that the Soloman Islands to be ruled by a guy who looks like Walt Disney.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on February 03, 2020, 03:48:20 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 03, 2020, 03:24:39 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 03, 2020, 03:23:58 PM
Tell me honestly: is that the face of a murderer?

:yes:

And what a murderer he was!

Did he actually kill anybody?

;)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Minsky Moment on February 03, 2020, 03:59:03 PM
He definitely killed Hitler.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Barrister on February 03, 2020, 04:03:33 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 03, 2020, 03:59:03 PM
He definitely killed Hitler.

Ava too.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Habbaku on February 03, 2020, 04:09:39 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 03, 2020, 04:03:33 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on February 03, 2020, 03:59:03 PM
He definitely killed Hitler.

Ava too.

:huh: Eva. And she used cyanide on herself.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 04:10:53 PM
He killed his dog. What a monster.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Habbaku on February 03, 2020, 04:20:31 PM
Yes, Blondi didn't do anything wrong...I think. Maybe.  :hmm:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Barrister on February 03, 2020, 04:28:08 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on February 03, 2020, 04:20:31 PM
Yes, Blondi didn't do anything wrong...I think. Maybe.  :hmm:

It was Hitler's dog.  I'm sure it was trained to growl at Jews or something.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on February 03, 2020, 06:11:20 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 03, 2020, 04:28:08 PM
Quote from: Habbaku on February 03, 2020, 04:20:31 PM
Yes, Blondi didn't do anything wrong...I think. Maybe.  :hmm:

It was Hitler's dog.  I'm sure it was trained to growl at Jews or something.

It probably never saw a Jew in its life.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: KRonn on February 03, 2020, 07:49:59 PM
I'm going to get this new DLC. I still enjoy the game, though I often don't play a nation too far into future as it gets tedious. IMO, they need more of a mechanism to cut down on the sheer numbers of divisions and aircraft that a nation can create. Currently limited by manpower but still a nation can have hundreds of divisions making it a tedious slog to battle through.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: grumbler on February 03, 2020, 09:34:03 PM
The Road to 56 mod gives the game a lot more variability (not always realistic variability, but generally fun).  I had a game as the US where the USSR invaded Poland before Germany, so the Allies declared war on the USSR, and then on Germany when it also invaded Poland.  There was never a German-Soviet war, but both countries kept that border armed to the teeth. It took the Allies until 1946 to conquer Germany, and I never bothered with the war against the USSR, because I was exhausted with the game play by that point.  Still, it was a lot of fun.

I recommend the mod for anyone tired of the base game but who still wants to play in that sandbox.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on February 26, 2020, 06:31:24 PM
The new DLC appears to not be well-received? :unsure: I decided to steer clear after reading DDs.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Threviel on February 27, 2020, 10:07:59 AM
Why? More micro-management not fun?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on February 27, 2020, 11:35:48 AM
Quote from: Threviel on February 27, 2020, 10:07:59 AM
Why? More micro-management not fun?
Main gripe seems to be that DLCs are adding content much faster than it can be polished.  The new mechanics break things as usual.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Threviel on February 27, 2020, 03:08:50 PM
Reading up on it over at Paradox implies that players are angry over:

You can't build both Panthers and Tigers by '40.
You can't annex the balkans by events any more as Germany
You can't go to war footing by '36 as Germany.
Italy has been nerfed and is a useless major.
Minor countries don't fall over each other in their eagerness to join the axis.
Apparently you can now lose as Germany by not minding the resistance.
Naval game is more broken.
Releasing vassals is now a good thing.

So, it seems like a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: dps on February 27, 2020, 04:38:23 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 03, 2020, 03:22:48 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 03, 2020, 03:21:21 PM
Then why start it in 1936? If you just wanted a grand strategy game of this era 1920 would be a far superior starting date.

I think you know why they start in 1936.

(https://media.gettyimages.com/videos/1930s-adolf-hitler-smiling-video-id652384168?s=640x640)

Then why not start in February 1933?

I tend to agree with Valmy on this--if it's not supposed to be a WWII game, 1920 makes more sense as a starting year.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on February 27, 2020, 10:05:46 PM
Are torpedo bombers still king?  In previous builds I would just buy a bunch of Naval bombers and destroy the enemies navy without ever needing my ships to go out in fight.  By the same token the my fleets would wiped out by the AI flooding the skies with CAS and tac bombers.  It made long range invasions very difficult.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josquius on February 28, 2020, 03:00:27 AM
Quote from: dps on February 27, 2020, 04:38:23 PM

Then why not start in February 1933?

I tend to agree with Valmy on this--if it's not supposed to be a WWII game, 1920 makes more sense as a starting year.

Then it'd be an economics simulator rather than a game of gearing up for then fighting a war.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on February 28, 2020, 07:46:54 AM
I think starting in 1936 is the only thing the game does well.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on February 28, 2020, 08:01:12 AM
Quote from: Josephus on February 28, 2020, 07:46:54 AM
I think starting in 1936 is the only thing the game does well.
I agree.  This is a WW2 game, so you can't be setting it up from 19 years earlier.  If you do that, you'll never even remotely get to the WW2 dynamics when the war breaks out.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: grumbler on February 28, 2020, 09:30:24 AM
Concur on the 1936 start date.  Extending the game to 1956 is kinda fun; extending it to 1926 would be a disaster, because even the 1936 date would be unrecognizable unless the game had so much railroading that it was no longer fun to play.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on February 28, 2020, 01:24:20 PM
1936 is good. It's a start date that supports getting a WW2, but not the WW2.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Valmy on February 28, 2020, 01:29:31 PM
Quote from: DGuller on February 28, 2020, 08:01:12 AM
Quote from: Josephus on February 28, 2020, 07:46:54 AM
I think starting in 1936 is the only thing the game does well.
I agree.  This is a WW2 game, so you can't be setting it up from 19 years earlier.  If you do that, you'll never even remotely get to the WW2 dynamics when the war breaks out.

If it is a WW2 game then I agree. If it is not a WW2 game, but a grand strategy game sandbox in this era, then I do not.

I made my statement based on Paradox supposedly saying: "it's not a WW2 game. It's a Grand Strategy Sandbox that starts in 1936" that was in response to me wishing they would spend more time trying to make it a better WW2 game and not include stuff like recreating the Umayyad Caliphate or whatever.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Valmy on February 28, 2020, 01:30:57 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 28, 2020, 09:30:24 AM
Concur on the 1936 start date.  Extending the game to 1956 is kinda fun; extending it to 1926 would be a disaster, because even the 1936 date would be unrecognizable unless the game had so much railroading that it was no longer fun to play.

It would certainly be a disaster for a WWII game. Not so much for a Grand Stategy Sandbox game though, it would actually lead to a much bigger variety of outcomes.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: grumbler on February 28, 2020, 02:09:29 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 28, 2020, 01:30:57 PM
It would certainly be a disaster for a WWII game. Not so much for a Grand Stategy Sandbox game though, it would actually lead to a much bigger variety of outcomes.

There is a difference between a grand strategy sandbox and a grand strategy fantasy, which your suggestion would be (unless the game were so much on rails that it wouldn't be any fun). 

Implementing your idea of having the largest variety of outcomes wouldn't be a bad thing, even more so if f it could, say, link to a Victoria II exported endgame and then just add the techs and change population, etc, because that would  give the greatest variety of outcomes.  But then it wouldn't be a WW2-era sandbox, any more than a 1919 start would be.  To create a world that is recognizable as the world in which WW2 was fought requires a resentful but resurgent Germany, at least three major factions, and at least one power that can lead the anti-Nazi or anti-Comintern factions as needed.  If Germany is taken over by the leftists in the 1920s, or the USSR by the right in the 1930s, a world recognizable as the world of WW2 will never be created.

There are mods that change start and end dates, and even offer the sorts of alt-hist outcomes you seems to want to see.  Kaiserreich gives you all the fantasy you could ask for.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on February 28, 2020, 02:23:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 28, 2020, 01:29:31 PM
I made my statement based on Paradox supposedly saying: "it's not a WW2 game. It's a Grand Strategy Sandbox that starts in 1936" that was in response to me wishing they would spend more time trying to make it a better WW2 game and not include stuff like recreating the Umayyad Caliphate or whatever.

It is a WW2 game in as much as Inglorious Basterds is a WW2 movie. Fiction set in a WW2 setting
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Valmy on February 28, 2020, 02:29:26 PM
Quote from: grumbler on February 28, 2020, 02:09:29 PM
There is a difference between a grand strategy sandbox and a grand strategy fantasy, which your suggestion would be (unless the game were so much on rails that it wouldn't be any fun).

1926 or 1920 ara fantasy years that did not exist in real life? Anyway it was not a suggestion, it was a statement of exasperation in reaction to what Josephus had posted. The fact that you usually get fantasy scenarios are why I have never been a big fan of the HoI series in general. I don't find it a very good simulation of WW2.

QuoteImplementing your idea of having the largest variety of outcomes wouldn't be a bad thing, even more so if f it could, say, link to a Victoria II exported endgame and then just add the techs and change population, etc, because that would  give the greatest variety of outcomes.  But then it wouldn't be a WW2-era sandbox, any more than a 1919 start would be.  To create a world that is recognizable as the world in which WW2 was fought requires a resentful but resurgent Germany, at least three major factions, and at least one power that can lead the anti-Nazi or anti-Comintern factions as needed.  If Germany is taken over by the leftists in the 1920s, or the USSR by the right in the 1930s, a world recognizable as the world of WW2 will never be created.

Sure. Those would be great possibilities for those wanting a Grand Strategy Sandbox game from this era. I mean if you want to see Al-Andalus reborn now you have another 15 years or so.

QuoteThere are mods that change start and end dates, and even offer the sorts of alt-hist outcomes you seems to want to see.  Kaiserreich gives you all the fantasy you could ask for.

I don't want to see those outcomes which is why I was making that comment about the Al-Andalus stuff.

Which is why I like EU2 the best, it seemed to do a better job making the world around you seem a least a little like the real thing. The other paradox games go off the rails almost immediately once you start the game, which is kind of fun but not really a historical experience.

Well that and a EU2 game could be done in a relatively short period of time compared to the enormous time commitment a CK2 or EUIV game take.

But anyway it was just a reaction to the what Paradox supposedly said in Josephus' post about what the purpose of HoI was, not an actual suggestion.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Valmy on February 28, 2020, 02:33:43 PM
Quote from: Josephus on February 28, 2020, 02:23:39 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 28, 2020, 01:29:31 PM
I made my statement based on Paradox supposedly saying: "it's not a WW2 game. It's a Grand Strategy Sandbox that starts in 1936" that was in response to me wishing they would spend more time trying to make it a better WW2 game and not include stuff like recreating the Umayyad Caliphate or whatever.

It is a WW2 game in as much as Inglorious Basterds is a WW2 movie. Fiction set in a WW2 setting

Pretty much.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on September 10, 2020, 04:43:26 AM
(https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/610043/THE%20PURPLE%20PHOENIX.png)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: celedhring on September 10, 2020, 05:30:56 AM
Paradox's obsession with the Byzantine Empire reaches World War II  :lol:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on September 23, 2020, 04:45:08 AM
Meanwhile for Turkey:
(https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/618024/1600846261024.png)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on September 23, 2020, 04:47:41 AM
That will make Erdogan fanboys quite happy, I assume. :)

(I feel whenever I check for HoI4 streams on Twitch there's always some Turks streaming. Tbf, I haven't looked in a while.)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Solmyr on September 23, 2020, 06:51:04 AM
Which is a bit weird because HoI4 Turkey is Kemalist.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: grumbler on September 28, 2020, 05:44:14 PM
Had a lot of fun with a recent run with the Kaiserreich mod.  I had played a fair amount as the US in a previous run, but not much happened.  In this run, I used the "avoid the civil war" mod and had a lot of fun figuring out how to avoid the war, and then lots of wars broke out all over the place.

An amusing flaw in the mod was that countries are arbitrarily limited in the number of divisions they can raise, based on their mobilization level.  Since raising mobilization levels depends on the number of factories one country has compared to its nearest rival, the US was able to make a ton of factories and thus not mobilize very much, keeping the army small.  As a result, my US had far more ships and aircraft than it could possibly use (even arming my allies, puppets, and misc other countries to the teeth via lend-lease).

Still, it was the only HoI game I have completed to date.  It never really got boring, even if I was a spectator (who created ironclad blockades) a lot of the time.  I'd recommend the mod to anyone who is still (for some reason) interested in the game.  In fact, I may do a Germany play (I did that once before and was having fun until Paradox wrecked my save with another save-wrecking update).
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on September 28, 2020, 11:01:37 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 28, 2020, 05:44:14 PM
(I did that once before and was having fun until Paradox wrecked my save with another save-wrecking update).

In Steam you should be able to revert to previous patches using the betas functionality in the game's properties.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: celedhring on September 29, 2020, 07:59:46 AM
Kaiserreich is superfun. Only way I play HoI4 nowadays.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on September 29, 2020, 09:57:52 PM
Quote from: celedhring on September 29, 2020, 07:59:46 AM
Kaiserreich is superfun. Only way I play HoI4 nowadays.


Yeah, it's a hoot.  I actually like it better than the vanilla game.  My current game as Fascist Russia has Europe divided between me and the socialists in Britain, France, and Italy while liberal democracy flowers in China and Japan.  Next game I'll try would be France.  Having a red Napoleon over run Europe sounds like fun.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on September 29, 2020, 11:09:13 PM
World Ablaze is a decent mod as well, although I haven't played in a few months.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: grumbler on September 30, 2020, 05:22:58 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 28, 2020, 11:01:37 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 28, 2020, 05:44:14 PM
(I did that once before and was having fun until Paradox wrecked my save with another save-wrecking update).

In Steam you should be able to revert to previous patches using the betas functionality in the game's properties.

Alas, I was unable to do that for the update involved.  I can't remember why (maybe the KR mod had also been updated and wouldn't work with the older version of HoI).
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on September 30, 2020, 11:30:53 PM
Oh, good point. I forgot that you can't revert to previous mod versions  from rge workshop.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on April 22, 2021, 03:30:56 AM
In the upcoming dlc, Poland will have an option to construct an off map nuclear reactor that will give them one nuke per year.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Tamas on April 22, 2021, 04:35:45 AM
See this why Kasierreich is the best way to play this game. Its full of silly premises from the getgo and it's alt history to boot so you are not annoyed with the events unfolding having no basis in reality, like it also happens with vanilla.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: FunkMonk on April 22, 2021, 08:27:17 AM
TNO is the gold standard for HoI4 mods.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on April 22, 2021, 08:45:03 AM
I have recently played the worst HOI4 mod: The New Order Last Days of Europe.  It takes place in an alternate reality where the Germans won WW2 and decided to destroy the Mediterranean, the Congo, and most of West Africa.  They built a dam in the strait of Gibraltar creating more salting land  to live on at the expense of destroying the economy of every port city in the Mediterranean.  There is also a huge lake in the middle of Belgian Congo, though I don't know why.  Much of West Africa is just blacked out because apparently the Luftwaffe just drops bombs on random villages in Africa.

The stupid geography changes aren't even the bad part.  The game revolves the weakest aspect of HOI4, peace.  If a big war breaks out it goes nuclear and the game ends.  That's probably realistic but very boring.  Instead it's mostly about decisions, events and focuses.  There is a very simplistic economy model that isn't interesting or intuitive.  I have no idea what the goals are in this mod let alone how to achieve them.  My guess is that you are supposed to just sit around until Nazi Germany collapses.  Sitting around for 40 years waiting for an event to fire isn't exactly interesting game play.  But even that isn't the worst part.

You know how in vanilla HOI4 you get a few flavor events like the Hindenburg crash or Amelia Earhart circumnavigating the globe? TNO has a whole bunch of these and they are very long and very poorly written.  The developers say that their mod is narrative driven which might be code for "how to annoy and bore Raz at the same time".  At one point I was clicking on Focuses to see what they did and the flavor text called me a "Liberal Pussy"  I honestly think that some the people who made this game are actual fascists and the bizarre evil that the Nazis have wrought upon the world is actually the world they want to live in.

On the Bright side, I have also found the best mod for HOI4.

(https://i.imgur.com/NwOZOS5.jpg)

Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on April 22, 2021, 08:45:35 AM
Quote from: FunkMonk on April 22, 2021, 08:27:17 AM
TNO is the gold standard for HoI4 mods.


I had just written a terrible review for that.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: FunkMonk on April 22, 2021, 09:56:00 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on April 22, 2021, 08:45:03 AM

On the Bright side, I have also found the best mod for HOI4.


:lol:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on May 01, 2021, 02:05:46 AM
Meanwhile in the latest dev diary for HOI:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/hoi4-devdiary-tank-designer.1470406/

QuoteBefore closing, I would like to note a few things on the subject of giving feedback. When I first started at Paradox, the direct line between community and developers was a major plus for me, because I liked the idea of talking to the community without having to run every post past three different marketing departments first. However, this kind of direct community access comes at a heavy cost for us. As many of you have noticed, we have gotten a little sparse in these forums in the last few months, or even years. The reason for this is that often we do face a debate culture that is not enjoyable to take part in, where it is taken as a given that the devs are either lazy or incompetent and where everything we do is viewed through that lens. Not only is it incredibly demoralizing to spend months of your life creating something, only to see the people you made it for tear it to shreds, it is also a debate that gives no one anything. We aren't paid to wade through pages of abuse to find a few nuggets of useful feedback, and so that feedback is not acted on. A lot of you have access to sources in languages we don't speak or have studied some detail that we weren't aware of. Such feedback is very useful - just a few weeks ago someone sent me a plan of the Turkish railways in 1936 taken from an old Turkish book, so I was able to use that to update the Turkish railway setup at game start.

We're not looking for fawning adoration (although we will certainly accept it) or a forum in which our decisions can't be discussed with a critical eye. We want to have your feedback, but there is no point to it if it can't be delivered with a minimum of respect for each other. If you want to have a forum where developers are willing to go and answer your questions, then it is also your responsibility to build a place where we feel welcome, and where we can disagree in a productive and professional manner. It costs you nothing to assume that we were acting in good faith. None of us wake up in the morning and go to work in order to do a bad job.

I entirely get that the forums have become quite the cesspool at times - which is a startingly contrast to the endless fanboism previously seen at Paradox.

I do wonder though is it all a cultural change of the posters or have Paradox's priorities fallen out of sync with fans.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Tamas on May 01, 2021, 03:31:19 AM
It feels like most of their community is a mix of multiplayers and achievement-junkies.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on May 01, 2021, 04:36:59 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 01, 2021, 02:05:46 AM
I entirely get that the forums have become quite the cesspool at times - which is a startingly contrast to the endless fanboism previously seen at Paradox.

I do wonder though is it all a cultural change of the posters or have Paradox's priorities fallen out of sync with fans.

Online communities change over time. E.g. when HoI1 was announced it led to an influx of a very different kind of gamer than EU 1 and 2 had attracted up to that point.

I don't like to do the "things used to be better back when ..." but I guess if your forum user base goes from a few hundreds or thousand to hundreds of thousands you will attract more, erm, "vocal" people who tend to set the tone of discussion. Going through the forums I feel there's a bunch of entitled dicks (like on most large game forums), but many people who seem reasonable or at least able to hold a civil discussion. Unfortunately, it seems the assholes are the ones who garner the most attention and have a tendency to move the line of what other people find acceptable to say.

Policing civil discussion has always been a delicate and often missed balance on Paradox forums with policies either being too strict or too lax, and occasional outbursts from certain people *cough*Johan*cough* didn't help.

Personally, I look at a lot of outrage around games and while I think bad behavior and quality from developers and publishers deserve to be called out and need to be criticized, occasionally warranting harsh language, personal attacks and death threats are counter productive.

I haven't checked the Paradox subreddits to see if they're any different in tone.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on May 03, 2021, 12:35:49 AM
Had a look at what they're working on with this ... apparently after the ship designer they'll now add a tank designer where you can decide on type of armor, whether to fit radios or have sloped armor, what kind of suspension and engine your tanks will have.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/hoi4-devdiary-tank-designer.1470406/

:unsure:

That also means there's eventually going to be a plane designer, right? :lol:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Solmyr on May 03, 2021, 02:37:05 AM
What the fuck does a ship/tank designer have to do with strategic-level warfare that Paradox games usually have?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on May 03, 2021, 02:43:22 AM
Not sure, but it adds a new level for min/maxers to meta-game the shit out of (and an AI struggling to deal with it).

My biggest concern is that instead of recreating historical models players will quickly figure out "optimal" designs because they won't have the historical designers' restrictions and they will have 80 years of hindsight.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on May 03, 2021, 03:22:54 AM
Will it be possible to link HoI4 and Tank Mechanic Simulator, so you can do maintenance on all your tanks?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on May 03, 2021, 07:15:28 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on May 03, 2021, 02:37:05 AM
What the fuck does a ship/tank designer have to do with strategic-level warfare that Paradox games usually have?
Ship designer I can see.  Depending on your strategic aims, you're going to tailor your ships of the same class towards one task or another, or make them the expensive jacks of all trades.  Tanks, on the other hand, do seem to be too micro for strategy.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: frunk on May 03, 2021, 07:48:51 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 03, 2021, 07:15:28 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on May 03, 2021, 02:37:05 AM
What the fuck does a ship/tank designer have to do with strategic-level warfare that Paradox games usually have?
Ship designer I can see.  Depending on your strategic aims, you're going to tailor your ships of the same class towards one task or another, or make them the expensive jacks of all trades.  Tanks, on the other hand, do seem to be too micro for strategy.

TBH they have a tailoring system already, with the army experience modifiers.  If they expanded that a bit it would be way better than a full blown designer.  Add options for reducing cost, reducing production time, better handling of terrain or other changes to a model.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on May 03, 2021, 08:01:46 AM
Tbh, I thought making players produce rifles, support equipment, artillery pieces etc. and then have those stockpiles applied to your division/unit templates was a bit much already. :P

(https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/48258735/54146084-e6591a80-4437-11e9-80ab-6380430739f5.png)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on May 03, 2021, 08:15:28 AM
Just wait until you need to decide on mess kits and grenade styles.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on May 03, 2021, 08:51:02 AM
And design appropriately flamboyant uniforms for Hitler's famous Liebstandarte.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: FunkMonk on May 03, 2021, 08:51:31 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on May 03, 2021, 02:37:05 AM
What the fuck does a ship/tank designer have to do with strategic-level warfare that Paradox games usually have?

It has nothing to do with that and all to do with making a ton of money. I don't blame them for catering to their fanbase and squeezing every last dollar out of them but yeah, it seems like yet another piece of bloatware that doesn't add anything to actual gameplay.

MY PANTHRR-TIGERS HAVE SLOPED ARMOR NOW HEHEHEHEKEKE
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Habbaku on May 03, 2021, 10:09:03 AM
Yeah, hard to blame them for wanting more cash out of the fans that seem to snap this stuff up. The people inclined to HOI are generally the sorts of nit-picky detail-oriented players anyway.

I hope they keep the more strategic focus for whatever they announce this month.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on May 03, 2021, 10:33:00 AM
What are good current strategic/operational WW2 games that cover the entire war? Strategic Command and War Plan are fine, but a bit on the beer & pretzels side of things.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on May 03, 2021, 11:57:37 AM
I've never been that interested in designing equipment in strategy games.  I always felt that should be someone else's job, not the guy running the whole war.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on May 03, 2021, 12:06:06 PM
The pointless equipment minutiae that really gets me are all the nation-specific basic equipment.  Support equipment produced in USSR is not the same as the one produced in Germany, and that is not the same as the one produced by Switzerland.  Is it any different in any way?  The flags on it are different, but that's it, but if you capture a lot of equipment in one way or the other, your inventory is going to be polluted with 20 different kinds of support equipment.  I'm not a programming expert, but I find it hard to believe that having to constantly sort through long lists of equipment doesn't contribute to the lag as the game tries to figure out which equipment to send where.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on May 03, 2021, 12:40:09 PM
It's annoying with aircraft because you need to wade through that bullshit to sit up new air wings.  Sometimes I spend 30 minutes trying to give it all away.  I do like the division designer, and the ship designer is okay.  In both situations it's nice to design something with a special focus like mine layers.  But tanks?  I don't normally even notice much of a difference between different types of tanks in the first place.  Most of the time I don't bother with heavy tanks at all.  I always seem to have a bunch of tanks in my inventory that I'm not even using.  You know what would be a nice feature?  The ability to queue orders like you can with ships.  I'd like it so I can order 200 naval bombers and production stops after I reach that point.  Instead I tend to forget about it and only notice a few hours later that I now have 2000 naval bombers.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Sheilbh on May 03, 2021, 06:31:55 PM
Quote from: garbon on May 01, 2021, 02:05:46 AM
I entirely get that the forums have become quite the cesspool at times - which is a startingly contrast to the endless fanboism previously seen at Paradox.

I do wonder though is it all a cultural change of the posters or have Paradox's priorities fallen out of sync with fans.
Probably a bit of both. And maybe the dark side of the fanboism.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: KRonn on May 03, 2021, 08:35:37 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 03, 2021, 12:06:06 PM
The pointless equipment minutiae that really gets me are all the nation-specific basic equipment.  Support equipment produced in USSR is not the same as the one produced in Germany, and that is not the same as the one produced by Switzerland.  Is it any different in any way?  The flags on it are different, but that's it, but if you capture a lot of equipment in one way or the other, your inventory is going to be polluted with 20 different kinds of support equipment.  I'm not a programming expert, but I find it hard to believe that having to constantly sort through long lists of equipment doesn't contribute to the lag as the game tries to figure out which equipment to send where.
I'm pretty sure you can delete equipment in the same screens where it shows the stuff.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on May 03, 2021, 08:42:55 PM
Quote from: KRonn on May 03, 2021, 08:35:37 PM
Quote from: DGuller on May 03, 2021, 12:06:06 PM
The pointless equipment minutiae that really gets me are all the nation-specific basic equipment.  Support equipment produced in USSR is not the same as the one produced in Germany, and that is not the same as the one produced by Switzerland.  Is it any different in any way?  The flags on it are different, but that's it, but if you capture a lot of equipment in one way or the other, your inventory is going to be polluted with 20 different kinds of support equipment.  I'm not a programming expert, but I find it hard to believe that having to constantly sort through long lists of equipment doesn't contribute to the lag as the game tries to figure out which equipment to send where.
I'm pretty sure you can delete equipment in the same screens where it shows the stuff.
Yes, you can, but there are still a couple of issues.  Deleting 73 versions of a rifle is annoying in itself, and you'll have to repeat the process frequently.  It's also not an optimal move, unless you've already essentially won the game and don't care.  I may be short of support equipment, so I may still make use of a box with a French flag on it because my factories just aren't producing enough boxes with a German flag on it.  The point is that it's a complication that's probably adding CPU cycles and clutter to the game, and has literally no material effect on anything important.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: crazy canuck on May 03, 2021, 10:16:40 PM
Waiting for the latrine design DLC before pulling the trigger. 
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Threviel on May 04, 2021, 01:13:06 AM
https://acoup.blog/2021/04/30/collections-teaching-paradox-europa-univeralis-iv-part-i-state-of-play/ (https://acoup.blog/2021/04/30/collections-teaching-paradox-europa-univeralis-iv-part-i-state-of-play/)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on May 04, 2021, 01:26:48 AM
Reading up a bit on the toxicity debate on the HoI4 forums specifically, this seems to mostly stem from the reaction to the dev diary covering the Polish decision tree. Which can lead to the restoration of the Polish Kingdom (including a joint Polish-Romanian Kingdom), have Poland try to acquire colonies, and in an extreme case gives them an off map nuclear reactor.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/hoi4-dev-diary-poland-focus-tree-rework-part-2-2.1468818/
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on May 04, 2021, 01:56:20 AM
Quote from: Threviel on May 04, 2021, 01:13:06 AM
https://acoup.blog/2021/04/30/collections-teaching-paradox-europa-univeralis-iv-part-i-state-of-play/ (https://acoup.blog/2021/04/30/collections-teaching-paradox-europa-univeralis-iv-part-i-state-of-play/)

Thanks, I will read that over the course of the day. :)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on May 04, 2021, 06:39:03 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 03, 2021, 10:33:00 AM
What are good current strategic/operational WW2 games that cover the entire war? Strategic Command and War Plan are fine, but a bit on the beer & pretzels side of things.
I was going to say Command HQ https://classicreload.com/command-hq.html (https://classicreload.com/command-hq.html) but then noticed you'd said 'current'.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Solmyr on May 04, 2021, 09:23:13 AM
Quote from: Threviel on May 04, 2021, 01:13:06 AM
https://acoup.blog/2021/04/30/collections-teaching-paradox-europa-univeralis-iv-part-i-state-of-play/ (https://acoup.blog/2021/04/30/collections-teaching-paradox-europa-univeralis-iv-part-i-state-of-play/)

Damnit, now I must read this blog in its entirety.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on May 04, 2021, 09:59:00 AM
Quote from: Threviel on May 04, 2021, 01:13:06 AM
https://acoup.blog/2021/04/30/collections-teaching-paradox-europa-univeralis-iv-part-i-state-of-play/ (https://acoup.blog/2021/04/30/collections-teaching-paradox-europa-univeralis-iv-part-i-state-of-play/)

Interesting stuff. I wonder what the game designers think.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: ulmont on May 04, 2021, 10:26:07 PM
Quote from: Josephus on May 04, 2021, 09:59:00 AM
Quote from: Threviel on May 04, 2021, 01:13:06 AM
https://acoup.blog/2021/04/30/collections-teaching-paradox-europa-univeralis-iv-part-i-state-of-play/ (https://acoup.blog/2021/04/30/collections-teaching-paradox-europa-univeralis-iv-part-i-state-of-play/)

Interesting stuff. I wonder what the game designers think.

"HOW COULD YOU IDIOTS FUCK UP LEVIATHAN THIS BAD?!?!?!?", I think.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on May 05, 2021, 12:46:35 AM
(https://i.redd.it/h5y16kpgo2x61.jpg)

At this point, wouldn't it have been better to say "Sorry, we messed up", refund the DLC, take it off the store, roll back the changes and re-release the DLC once it's actually functioning?

Also, if after 8 years of adding complexity your complaint is "this shit's hard to test, yo" ... maybe take a step back and reconsider whether it's time for a more drastic change.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on May 05, 2021, 12:50:14 AM
Going forward, I think it would behoove Paradox to have clear road maps for their games, ideally on release. "This is the game we want to release. These are the DLC we aim to publish in Year 1, these are our mid and long term goals." In the last 5 years their DLC policy seems to have been haphazard and random and not very well thought out or part of a larger concept.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Solmyr on May 05, 2021, 02:29:09 AM
A roadmap worked so well for Anthem. :P
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on May 05, 2021, 02:34:44 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on May 05, 2021, 02:29:09 AM
A roadmap worked so well for Anthem. :P

Unlike EU4 it was DOA, though. :P
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on May 05, 2021, 02:56:10 AM
The roadmap for Imperator didn't save that game either.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on May 05, 2021, 03:16:13 AM
Quote from: garbon on May 05, 2021, 02:56:10 AM
The roadmap for Imperator didn't save that game either.

Well, that was only post-launch, after Johan overcame his resistance to change what he thought was his ideal game, though.

Then again, communicating such a roadmap pre-launch would probably just open them up to the usual "releasing barebones games as DLC vehicles" criticism even more than usual  :hmm:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on May 05, 2021, 03:32:05 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 05, 2021, 03:16:13 AM
Then again, communicating such a roadmap pre-launch would probably just open them up to the usual "releasing barebones games as DLC vehicles" criticism even more than usual  :hmm:

Agreed.

Really, I think the idea of a roadmap is a nice one, I just think unfortunately it won't solve many/any of their issues.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Solmyr on May 05, 2021, 04:33:57 AM
Are there examples of games where a roadmap actually improved things noticeably? :hmm:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on May 05, 2021, 04:50:53 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on May 05, 2021, 04:33:57 AM
Are there examples of games where a roadmap actually improved things noticeably? :hmm:
Truck Simulator? :unsure:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Zanza on May 05, 2021, 05:29:25 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on May 05, 2021, 04:33:57 AM
Are there examples of games where a roadmap actually improved things noticeably? :hmm:
SimCity?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on May 05, 2021, 07:10:58 AM
Quote from: Syt on May 05, 2021, 12:50:14 AM
Going forward, I think it would behoove Paradox to have clear road maps for their games, ideally on release. "This is the game we want to release. These are the DLC we aim to publish in Year 1, these are our mid and long term goals." In the last 5 years their DLC policy seems to have been haphazard and random and not very well thought out or part of a larger concept.
WHy? Their MO for decades has been to publish semi-functional games becaue of deadlines or because it was too hart to fix everything up front, then complain about people complaining.  If it were free it'd be one thing.  But they make a complex, highly intricate game and charge money for it, they need to not fuck it up.  Or at least not make excuses and get bitchy when people complain about the money they spent for a product that is not completely ready.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josquius on May 05, 2021, 07:34:47 AM
A road map would only delay people's purchasing.
Which is nice for the customer but not their bank.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: crazy canuck on May 05, 2021, 11:42:30 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on May 05, 2021, 04:33:57 AM
Are there examples of games where a roadmap actually improved things noticeably? :hmm:

Foxhole - but that doesn't really count since it is still in development
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on May 14, 2021, 04:43:12 AM
QuoteWe originally planned to have Poland get an off-map reactor to essentially get them control of 1 nuke during play as an exile nation. This to reflect their role in the nuclear project, but we were already a bit on the fence on if this was too immersion breaking for the gameplay purpose, and it seemed many of you thought so too so we removed the off-map reactor and moved the focus to the industry branch.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on May 14, 2021, 06:33:16 AM
Turns out some alt-hist fantasies are too silly even for the HoI4 crowd.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on May 21, 2021, 01:20:35 PM
HoI4 presentation at PDXCON: "We wanted to make sure the game has little micromanagement."

*adds overly detailed ship and tank designers  to the game*
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Habbaku on May 21, 2021, 01:28:50 PM
Sigh.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: celedhring on May 22, 2021, 04:31:40 PM
So, some bunch of crazies went and made a Clone Wars mod for HoI4  :lol: :w00t:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Solmyr on June 28, 2021, 10:54:01 AM
Had a rather intense game of Hearts of Iron 4 yesterday. I was playing the Soviet Union, building up for an early war against Germany. Conquered Poland fast (1937 or so). I was finally ready and declared war on Germany in mid-1939, just as Germany was invading Belgium (but had no other western wars yet). I overrun Eastern Prussia and concentrate on the push towards Berlin. At this point, Germany holds Czechia and Slovakia is in the Axis, so I have to guard that border as well (it's really crappy to attack because of all the mountains). Italy is also in the Axis, but does little against me. Luckily, after a month or so France decided that enough and declared war on Germany, and soon after the UK joins in making this a big Allies and Comintern vs Axis world war. The Netherlands also join some time later due to UK pressure. Fortunately I don't have to watch Asia, since Japan is still bogged down in China, though clearly winning.

Anyway, my push into Germany is painfully slow because of material shortage and Germans having good entrenchment. However, France is pushing slowly in the west, advancing slightly across the Rhine and into occupied Belgium; they are not making huge gains either, and actually losing to the Italians down south. After months of pushing and trying to create good attacks from multiple directions, I start to break though the German lines. That is when fucking Hungary decides to join the Axis, and their units flood into my territory, with some Germans joining in as well. I scramble some armies to cut them off, but my defense there is stretching really thin, and the Hungarians manage to eventually occupy western Ukraine and eastern Poland (basically everything between Warsaw and Kiev, not including the cities themselves). They even cut my territory in half once they push north to the Lithuanian border. Fortunately, my armies in Germany are still supplied since I control Baltic ports from Memel to Danzig, so shipments can come from Leningrad. Anyway, in the west I manage to make a desperate push towards Berlin, and my tanks occupy the city. That's when the Germans start to crumble in the west; I execute some more encircling attacks and finally march to the borders of the Netherlands, Belgium and France. The Australians make a landing in Bremen and the UK takes out the Italians and occupies Rome, causing the Axis to surrender. I was lucky that Hungary did not count as a major, so their occupation did not affect the outcome!

After an intense peace conference Europe looks like this (November 1940):

(https://i.imgur.com/bTByS9F.jpg)

And the factions:

(https://i.imgur.com/sPSmgvQ.jpg)

Basically, I puppeted Germany and Hungary, making them communist, plus took some lands for myself (western Germany, Austria, and Moravia, though I may give them back for now and annex my puppets later). The Allies restored Czechoslovakia (which controls only Slovakia), Austria (controlling only Tirol), and Albania; created a free Transylvania and Slovenia. In Africa, Libya was made into a British colony, while former Italian colonies Eritrea and Somalia became independent. Italy itself was recreated as a republic. The only problem is that the Allies are quite strong now, with Italy, Austria, and Albania joining them (Norway joined as well because Germany stupidly decided to declare war on them while being at war with me and the Allies already). The Balkan countries are mostly unaligned so far, except for Bulgaria which joined the Axis very late in the war and did not have time to do much before German surrender, so now it's the only member of the Axis despite not even being fascist. The US is neutral for now, but I suspect once Japan is done with China, it will attack the US and make it join the Allies (if it does not decide to attack me instead). So dangerous times may be ahead for the Soviets. I'm thinking of trying to promote communism and stage coups in some countries to tip the balance a bit; I haven't tried this kind of gameplay yet, and my NKVD has many spies so it may be an interesting strategy.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on June 28, 2021, 11:12:28 AM
I've had my most challenging game as Germany yesterday.  I invaded Poland as usual, and as I was proceeding to occupy it, I noticed that I now had excess tungsten.  I was a little confused, since I didn't think Poland had much tungsten, but it turns out that I had extra tungsten because I was not longer producing any medium tanks.  It turns out that I forgot to guard the French border, and the Allies occupied all of western Germany and got to the outskirts of Berlin while I was busy with Poland.  :hmm: 
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: grumbler on July 14, 2021, 11:42:45 AM
I had an interesting game of HoI4, playing Kaiserreich with the "Avoid American Civil War" mod.  This makes the US ridiculously OP (which is why KR has a mandatory US civil war), but I wasn't interested in a competitive game so much as I was interested in a game where I was playing KR but free from all the scripted events, once the initial depression was overcome.

In this scenario, there is no way for the US to join a faction.  All factions are created by events in KR, and none of the US-joins-a-faction events apply in the absence of the civil war.  I played into 1943 before realizing that the US could not even declare war because the world tension was constantly going down over time, after the second Weltkrieg kicked off.  Going back and replaying from the start of 1939, I discovered that there is one month (only) where the world tension is 75 and the US can start to justify a war (that's the month the Entente declares war on the International, and WT goes to exactly 75 before it starts to count down by 1 point per month).  So, I decided to make war on the Syndicalists, because they were kicking ass.

By the time the second Weltkrieg had broken out in my game, the International consisted of France and Britain, of course, plus Italy, Russia, Spain, and the Netherlands.  Imperial Germany was getting squished from both sides.

What impressed me about the design of KR in my game was that it allowed the player to create lots of breakaway countries if they so desired (and I did, because paining the map wasn't my objective).  For instance, I, as the US, conquered just northwest Italy and the game allowed me to create the nation of Piedmont-Sardinia.  Similarly, I was able to create Scotland, Illyria, and a few others.  That was the kind of thing I was looking to see.

The mod designers broke my save by the time the game was into 1945, but that was okay by me.  There really wasn't any point to going any further.

But the bottom line is that i was even more impressed with the designers of KR after this run than before.  They really thought out some of the less-likely scenarios and acounted for them.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Threviel on August 18, 2021, 01:10:56 AM
I've been playing a bit lately. Anyone have any tips for good mods?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Berkut on August 22, 2021, 10:29:56 AM
I just took this up. I think I enjoy preparing for war more than the war.

Played as the US a couple times, and once war with Japan breaks out, I have no idea how to handle the navies.

Played as Germany, and again, once war broke out, trying to manage the army/army'group/division along with plans, directives, start lines, offensive lines, and all that was...very confusing. I conquered Poland, but didn't feel like I was doing anything really to do so.

Did some reading on strategy, and was totally turned off by the uber optimization that is apparently the "right" way to play the game - IE, if you are going to build a destroyed escort, it should be a early war hull with a single depth charge on it and nothing else. IE, you are playing to the mechanics of the game only (a sub apparently will break off if it is contacted by a escort with a weapon capable of attacking it, so why bother with guns and AA and a decent engine?).

Your infantry divisions would be exactly 20 "width" (apparently width is super important, but barely mentioned in the manual?), and be composed of nothing but infantry. Your armor should be nothing but armor. etc., etc.

Is that kind of optimization really for MP only?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on August 22, 2021, 10:33:26 AM
Having armor units be armor-only is not correct, you won't have any hitpoints and will suffer horrendous materiel losses.  You need some mobile or mech infantry with it.  As for the larger question, min-maxing is not necessary in SP, because you can spot AI some advantages, but it would still help.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Berkut on August 22, 2021, 10:35:57 AM
Sorry, yes, it said you should have armor and motorized/mech. But no TDs, no SP artillery (maybe just a support company), not actual "other stuff".

Do you just not even bother researching that stuff at all?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on August 22, 2021, 10:46:30 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 22, 2021, 10:35:57 AM
Sorry, yes, it said you should have armor and motorized/mech. But no TDs, no SP artillery (maybe just a support company), not actual "other stuff".

Do you just not even bother researching that stuff at all?
I don't know if it's meta or not, but I do carry motorized artillery and AA, and then replace them with SP variants if I can afford it.  My typical template is 12 tanks, 4 mobile infantry, 2 mobile artillery, and 2 mobile AA.  Early in the game, it helps fill out the 40 width template, since producing enough tanks for enough armor divisions is no small feat.  Maybe 15-5 works better in MP, where the opposing player is more competent at anti-tank warfare.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Berkut on August 22, 2021, 11:11:14 AM
What options do you use DG when starting a new game?


Like, do you always do the historical AI focuses and such?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on August 22, 2021, 11:13:46 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 22, 2021, 11:11:14 AM
What options do you use DG when starting a new game?


Like, do you always do the historical AI focuses and such?
Default all the way.  Normal difficulty, historical focuses.  In my opinion, the game turns into a clusterfuck if you turn off historical focuses, especially with all the DLCs that introduce a bunch of nonsense focus trees for a lot of nations.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on August 22, 2021, 11:15:52 AM
Quote from: DGuller on August 22, 2021, 11:13:46 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 22, 2021, 11:11:14 AM
What options do you use DG when starting a new game?


Like, do you always do the historical AI focuses and such?
Default all the way.  Normal difficulty, historical focuses.  In my opinion, the game turns into a clusterfuck if you turn off historical focuses, especially with all the DLCs that introduce a bunch of nonsense focus trees for a lot of nations.

The Grand Pensionary of the Neo-Ottoman Republic frowns on your shenanigans.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: grumbler on August 22, 2021, 11:48:42 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 22, 2021, 10:35:57 AM
Sorry, yes, it said you should have armor and motorized/mech. But no TDs, no SP artillery (maybe just a support company), not actual "other stuff".

Do you just not even bother researching that stuff at all?

The game can certainly be played as a "ignore realism and focus on what's best in purely game terms," but that's both unfun and much more difficult (because you have to remember all the ahistorical 'rules' you need to follow).  Just play the game like a regular Paradox game and do what seems fun.   The opponent AI isn't good enough to make you pay a heavy price for being historical (in part because that's what the AI does).

My standard configurations were 7 infantry and 2 artillery, plus recon and engineer units, for an infantry brigade, and double that plus hospital and attached AT for an infantry division.  Make brigades in the early game and combine them into divisions when you have enough units and want stronger ones (say, 1941 or so).  Divisions fight better than 2 brigades because they have more HP and cohesion.  Pure infantry units have more cohesion but don't have much firepower.

For armor, i start, again, with brigades (5 tank, 2 mobile infantry, 2 towed artillery) and combine them into divisions in 1941 or so, same as the infantry.  I always attach recon, engineer, and maintenance units to armor, adding a comms or supply attachment and a hospital when they go to divisions. Road to 56 is a better historical game than base HOI4.

When you've played enough HOI4 to satisfy your semi-historical itch, switch to Kaiserreich.  It will remove predictability and historical hindsight, so it will extend the fun beyond the base game. Once you switch, though, you will never want to go back to base HOI4, so enjoy the base game as long as you can if you want to keep HOI4 fun as long as possible.

Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Berkut on August 22, 2021, 01:03:01 PM
Has anyone ahd and hopefully solved the weirdness where you setup a task force to auto fill, and it just adds then removes then adds then removes over and over again a single ship?

I setup a CV TF with 2CVs, 2BB, 2CA, 4CL, and 20 DDs. It fills it up from reserve nicely, but then 1 of the 2 CVs just togglers back and forth between in and out of the TF.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Agelastus on August 22, 2021, 01:05:13 PM
12 tanks? For light tanks that's 720 tanks per division, for mediums 600, for heavies 480.

I prefer roleplaying something closer to actual division sizes in battalion numbers*, although that does make the divisions feel a little small, manpower wise, as the game doesn't seem to model the "tail" that keeps a division in the field very well.

16 width gives you 5 divisions in the frontline, which can be useful for rapid exploitation into multiple provinces. I only tend to use it when playing a low manpower country to give myself sufficient numbers of divisions for the frontline though.

20 width divisions used to be the standard IIRC, giving you four to the frontline. I tend to use this format in most games.

I've experimented with 26 width divisions (which only waste 2 width with 3 divisions in the frontline) that give you a bit more freedom for variety in how you set them up - useful if you like having a lot of artillery battalions in divisions but need to keep the organisation up. Infantry, Motorised infantry and Mechanized infantry benefit far more from organisation gains as you advance down a land doctrine path compared to tanks.

Recon and engineer are certainly your essential support companies. I always used to use hospital companies as the third choice but it depends on your play-style and country (for example, playing Democratic Britain I would use hospital companies in divisions due to manpower concerns; for Non-aligned or Fascist Britain there's no need for this thanks to the "Imperial Conscription" focus and the fact that you should have reconquered India.)

As for AI control of fronts? Give them a plan and set them off but don't rely on the bonuses planning gives you; it is far more effective to take direct control of some of the units to manage encirclements but manually doing this instantly kills your planning bonus for those units.

But then, I don't understand some of the advice I see online for single player anyway; the advice I've seen for Britain versus America, for example, seems to be to smash your way down the East Coast...which seems silly to me given the terrain. Better to concentrate Motorised and Armoured divisions west of the Great Lakes to attack across the Great Plains to maximize your chances of encircling American divisions, then either swing east once you are past Chicago to trap the American forces defending the north-east or go straight south to cut the country in half.

Berkut, you should do whatever you feel suits how you want to play the game or that you feel works.

---------------

*and tank numbers - remember, I'm British and we spent all of WWII trying to get the ratio of tanks to infantry in divisions right. One could argue we weren't even quite there in 1945...

Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: grumbler on August 22, 2021, 01:10:25 PM
Quote from: Berkut on August 22, 2021, 01:03:01 PM
Has anyone ahd and hopefully solved the weirdness where you setup a task force to auto fill, and it just adds then removes then adds then removes over and over again a single ship?

I setup a CV TF with 2CVs, 2BB, 2CA, 4CL, and 20 DDs. It fills it up from reserve nicely, but then 1 of the 2 CVs just togglers back and forth between in and out of the TF.

I stopped using task force autofill after my first game.  I just let the TF do its thing until it has a significant number of ships damaged or under repair, then toggle it's combat mod off and send reinforcements to fill out the losses.  That way I don't have obsolete cruisers or whatever in my battle fleets while modern ones in my scouting forces.  It is more important to have modern ships for screening than for scouting.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on August 22, 2021, 01:17:51 PM
Task force auto-fill sometimes bugs out on me as well.  One thing I found is that for some reason, a fresh task force is less likely to bug out than the task force started from an existing historical fleet.  Not sure why.  This is one of the many delightful fit and finish issues with the game, where you kind of wish the developers spent more time ironing out bugs rather than adding fantasy nonsense to Bhutan's focus tree.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on August 22, 2021, 06:30:55 PM
When you set up a taskforce you choose both a type of ship and the symbol of that ship.  The autofill only uses ships of the same type and symbol. For instance you might pick destroyers and symbol of shield.  The AI will only use destroyers with the shield symbol for autofill.  You can change the symbol by going back the ship design screen.  Change the icon for obsolete ships and they will no longer be used reinforcements.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on August 22, 2021, 06:59:43 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 22, 2021, 06:30:55 PM
When you set up a taskforce you choose both a type of ship and the symbol of that ship.  The autofill only uses ships of the same type and symbol. For instance you might pick destroyers and symbol of shield.  The AI will only use destroyers with the shield symbol for autofill.  You can change the symbol by going back the ship design screen.  Change the icon for obsolete ships and they will no longer be used reinforcements.
That's not the issue for Berkut.  If the ship keeps joining and then detaching, then obviously the template thinks at least some of the time that the ship is of accepted type.  It's hard to say what kind of bug Berkut is running into, because there are so many of them in the fleet reinforcement mechanic.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Solmyr on August 23, 2021, 04:47:22 AM
I found this video a good start for naval warfare, explains what the missions are and which ships are good for them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3hvN1vDJQQ
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on August 23, 2021, 10:34:02 AM
For SP games, for maximum effectiveness, I find that the best ratio of ships to build is 100% 1940 subs with snorkels, and 0% of anything else. 

(https://forumcontent.paradoxplaza.com/public/635735/20201101010256_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Berkut on August 23, 2021, 10:45:10 AM
That cannot possible be correct.

I think you just made me want to just uninstall and go back to Stellaris or something
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on August 23, 2021, 10:52:54 AM
At least they fixed land combat a little.  Here is what you could do in patch 1.4:

(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/928171163562227810/944C5791E6579C848215EF9B7847BC93524AA470/)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Valmy on August 23, 2021, 10:55:02 AM
19 million to zero? The Germans really are super men.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Habbaku on August 23, 2021, 10:58:14 AM
And it's stuff like that why I've never touched HOI III/IV. Four games in and they still can't even get combat avoiding the giggle test.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on August 23, 2021, 11:01:28 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2021, 10:55:02 AM
19 million to zero? The Germans really are super men.
This game came about from a debate with some "experts" on the HOI forum about mech infantry.  They kept saying that it was useless because it was way too expensive, and I was saying that it's good that it is so expensive, because it can be game-breaking in its effectiveness.  They said I was full of it.

To prove my point, I started a game with the sole purpose of creating such idiotic casualty ratios.  As Germany, I delayed my war with USSR until my entire army was fully mechanized.  I was showing these screenshots in that debate thread, and the "expert" said that all it proved was that I was a bad player, since I waited until 1943 to attack the Soviets.  :lol:  Paradox forums can be as amusing as their games.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on August 23, 2021, 11:02:03 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 23, 2021, 10:58:14 AM
And it's stuff like that why I've never touched HOI III/IV. Four games in and they still can't even get combat avoiding the giggle test.
They do have some pretty elaborate focus trees for Mexico, though, you have to give them that.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Habbaku on August 23, 2021, 11:17:42 AM
Quote from: DGuller on August 23, 2021, 11:01:28 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 23, 2021, 10:55:02 AM
19 million to zero? The Germans really are super men.
This game came about from a debate with some "experts" on the HOI forum about mech infantry.  They kept saying that it was useless because it was way too expensive, and I was saying that it's good that it is so expensive, because it can be game-breaking in its effectiveness.  They said I was full of it.

To prove my point, I started a game with the sole purpose of creating such idiotic casualty ratios.  As Germany, I delayed my war with USSR until my entire army was fully mechanized.  I was showing these screenshots in that debate thread, and the "expert" said that all it proved was that I was a bad player, since I waited until 1943 to attack the Soviets.  :lol:  Paradox forums can be as amusing as their games.

:lol: Ahistorical results means you're terrible at the game!
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on August 23, 2021, 11:31:31 AM
Why didn't the Soviet AI ragequit?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Habbaku on August 23, 2021, 02:17:35 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 23, 2021, 11:31:31 AM
Why didn't the Soviet AI ragequit?

:lol:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Berkut on August 23, 2021, 03:07:32 PM
Is the AI any good at naval invasions?

My first "real" game as the US, and I reinforced the Phillipines pretty heavily, about a dozen divisions.

The Brits showed up after war broke out and the Japanese fleet promptly came over and kicked their teeth in quite thoroughly.

But then the seem to be sending in single division landings, which just keep failing....
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on August 23, 2021, 03:12:49 PM
AI naval invasions can be pretty dangerous, their threat shouldn't be underestimated.  You can definitely milk the AI naval invasions for massive stackwipes, but that's a pretty advanced tactic to abuse the AI.  They can definitely unload a D-Day on you and send you scrambling to reinforce if your coastal protection plan was relying on naval superiority, and your navy decided to go repair itself.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on August 30, 2021, 06:47:41 PM
The next expansion is suppose to rework armor.  Hopefully it tame halftracks.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Neil on August 31, 2021, 11:07:29 AM
Quote from: DGuller on August 23, 2021, 11:02:03 AM
Quote from: Habbaku on August 23, 2021, 10:58:14 AM
And it's stuff like that why I've never touched HOI III/IV. Four games in and they still can't even get combat avoiding the giggle test.
They do have some pretty elaborate focus trees for Mexico, though, you have to give them that.
That's called knowing your audience though.  They're not going after the grognard market, but rather their tried-and-tested group of people who want to create alt-history. 
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Sheilbh on August 31, 2021, 12:40:38 PM
:o I play Mexico a fair bit (who doesn't love Cardenas).

But more generally it's not normally alt-historying it's just that I find the game a bit overwhelming/big if you're one of the big countries. There's too much to look at/do so I tend to play more minor side roll countries that can help but are not particularly decisive.

So I quite like the Mexican content :blush: Same for Turkey, Hungary etc.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on August 31, 2021, 01:04:36 PM
I used to play Mexico a lot until the new focus tree was added.  It was a nice challenge with the generic focus tree, and obviously the main objective is to conquer USA before USA wakes up.  Once the new focus tree was added, the fun was killed, to me it became a stupid RPG game.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: FunkMonk on September 21, 2021, 04:11:27 PM
I've got the Paradox bug but I can't stand playing their vanilla games nowadays. Which total conversion mod for Hearts of Iron 4 is the best? Kaiserreich looks cool but I've watched a few videos of Old World Blues and it looks incredibly well made and basically complete.

Side question: Is it a problem for Paradox that mods of their games are better than their games?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on September 21, 2021, 05:12:57 PM
The two mods I like best are Kaiserreich and Road to 56.  Neither really changes much about the basics of the game.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: grumbler on September 21, 2021, 06:16:51 PM
I like Kaiserreich because you never know what is going to happen politically.  Other than Germany and Japan remaining some sort of anti-socialist government and the UK and France always being socialist, everything else is pretty much up for grabs.  Even some of the smaller powers are fun to play, because every game gives you a different challenge.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: FunkMonk on September 24, 2021, 04:43:45 PM
I've been trying out Kaiserreich as you both suggested and it is indeed very cool. Thanks.  :cool:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on November 22, 2021, 02:07:50 PM
So HoI4 is now getting railroad networks and improved supply models? Also, doctrines will now be researched by using experience.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on November 22, 2021, 09:44:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taurf-U8oaA

This is indeed a disturbing universe.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on November 23, 2021, 07:37:48 AM
Quote from: Berkut on August 23, 2021, 03:07:32 PM
Is the AI any good at naval invasions?

My first "real" game as the US, and I reinforced the Phillipines pretty heavily, about a dozen divisions.

The Brits showed up after war broke out and the Japanese fleet promptly came over and kicked their teeth in quite thoroughly.

But then the seem to be sending in single division landings, which just keep failing....
So that sounds like HoI I, I remember the constant single division invasions of France when I was playing as Germany. 
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: FunkMonk on November 24, 2021, 10:56:25 AM
Anyone picking up the newest expansion? Reading some very good things about it. It mixes up the combat engine, adds supply lines, redoes the Soviet tree, and improves the front AI.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on November 24, 2021, 10:57:44 AM
Waiting for a patch or two. But I've only 13 hours total in the game, anyways. :P
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on November 24, 2021, 11:10:33 AM
I've read a review that seemed positive on the surface, but reinforced the many concerns that I had.  It sounds like the expansion jams a lot of complications into a game that neither needs them nor is designed to handle them, and a lot of these complications either don't change anything at all, or change things so much that the game becomes overly focused around them.  I think I'm giving this a pass.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Threviel on November 24, 2021, 11:24:05 AM
Tried out the free update somewhat yesterday. I'm waiting for Kaiserreich to be updated, anyone know how long that usually is?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on November 30, 2021, 01:43:28 PM
Why is Hirohito leader of Japan? Other countries seem to be led by their head of government (even if some of those of course double as heads of state).
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: grumbler on December 01, 2021, 05:27:06 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 30, 2021, 01:43:28 PM
Why is Hirohito leader of Japan? Other countries seem to be led by their head of government (even if some of those of course double as heads of state).

Maybe because Japan had 8 PMs in the time period of the game.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on December 01, 2021, 05:44:45 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 01, 2021, 05:27:06 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 30, 2021, 01:43:28 PM
Why is Hirohito leader of Japan? Other countries seem to be led by their head of government (even if some of those of course double as heads of state).

Maybe because Japan had 8 PMs in the time period of the game.

Elaborate.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: grumbler on December 01, 2021, 05:55:10 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 01, 2021, 05:44:45 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 01, 2021, 05:27:06 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 30, 2021, 01:43:28 PM
Why is Hirohito leader of Japan? Other countries seem to be led by their head of government (even if some of those of course double as heads of state).

Maybe because Japan had 8 PMs in the time period of the game.

Elaborate.

Having the PM be the leader would mean a lot of portrait switching.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on December 01, 2021, 06:06:27 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 01, 2021, 05:55:10 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 01, 2021, 05:44:45 PM
Quote from: grumbler on December 01, 2021, 05:27:06 PM
Quote from: The Brain on November 30, 2021, 01:43:28 PM
Why is Hirohito leader of Japan? Other countries seem to be led by their head of government (even if some of those of course double as heads of state).

Maybe because Japan had 8 PMs in the time period of the game.

Elaborate.

Having the PM be the leader would mean a lot of portrait switching.

But it's done for France and the UK I think?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Minsky Moment on December 02, 2021, 01:45:43 AM
Should be the daughter in law elect, no?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: grumbler on December 04, 2021, 09:01:52 AM
Quote from: The Brain on December 01, 2021, 06:06:27 PM
But it's done for France and the UK I think?

Yes, that's why I said "a lot of" portrait switching.

I'm not being entirely serious, but maybe a little bit serious.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on April 25, 2022, 09:29:02 AM
Trying to get back into this game. haven't played since June 2018. I always find it hard to remember the little nuances of Paradox games when I haven't played for a while; especially when their DLC releases make changes to the game, even if you don't buy the DLC.

Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Threviel on April 26, 2022, 09:01:58 AM
I find the new fangled logistics system improves stuff a lot. Really makes my offensives stop dead sometimes and makes me use air supply even.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: The Brain on April 26, 2022, 09:08:29 AM
What about a flock of seagulls?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on May 06, 2022, 05:49:56 AM
Ugh...been playing this game a lot these last two weeks. It's changed a lot since I last played four years ago and there's a lot to wrap my head around. This game is annoying though because it could be good. But isn't. Still, I'm addicted right now. In a few hours I'll bang my head against the wall, and then play some more.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: grumbler on May 06, 2022, 06:42:32 AM
Quote from: Josephus on May 06, 2022, 05:49:56 AMUgh...been playing this game a lot these last two weeks. It's changed a lot since I last played four years ago and there's a lot to wrap my head around. This game is annoying though because it could be good. But isn't. Still, I'm addicted right now. In a few hours I'll bang my head against the wall, and then play some more.

Are you playing using Kaiserreich or vanilla?  KR is much better.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on May 06, 2022, 05:05:16 PM
I personally find HOI4 to be a strange game.  The QA part of the game seems to be really poor, and the arrogance of leaving major bugs and shortcomings unaddressed for years while pumping out DLCs is infuriating.  That said, I find myself getting sucked in again and again.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on May 07, 2022, 05:50:45 AM
Quote from: grumbler on May 06, 2022, 06:42:32 AM
Quote from: Josephus on May 06, 2022, 05:49:56 AMUgh...been playing this game a lot these last two weeks. It's changed a lot since I last played four years ago and there's a lot to wrap my head around. This game is annoying though because it could be good. But isn't. Still, I'm addicted right now. In a few hours I'll bang my head against the wall, and then play some more.

Are you playing using Kaiserreich or vanilla?  KR is much better.

I've never used mods...I'm old.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on May 07, 2022, 05:56:20 AM
Quote from: DGuller on May 06, 2022, 05:05:16 PMI personally find HOI4 to be a strange game.  The QA part of the game seems to be really poor, and the arrogance of leaving major bugs and shortcomings unaddressed for years while pumping out DLCs is infuriating.  That said, I find myself getting sucked in again and again.

It does draw you in, and you think, maybe this time. There are several beefs I have with it. But primarily, the weakness of the AI, in particular the Allied AI. Mostly becasue the various countries don't coordinate. So you have Britain doing Dieppe raids all over the map, whilst the rest of the allies watch. I was playing as the USA and launched a fairly succesful invasion of France, but I needed backup, but the Brits were too busy sending divisiion after division into Greece. Plus half their units were in Africa.

I do find the Axis tend to respond better, particularly to invasions and seem to mass a solid defence. In another game, where I was Britain, Turkey joined the allies. Within days, the Axis launched three separate attacks on Turkey, one from the Balkans, one from Palestine and one from the Aegean.

I'm not sure where the Axis get their numbers from though. They have taken millions of casualties yet keep on coming.

And Germany walks through Russia.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: garbon on June 27, 2022, 07:24:04 AM
Switzerland mission tree? :hmm:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on September 11, 2022, 12:00:57 PM
Quote from: Syt on November 24, 2021, 10:57:44 AMWaiting for a patch or two. But I've only 13 hours total in the game, anyways. :P

I've doubled my playtime over the last week or so. :o

I'm still not sure if I like the game. The ambition is admirable to cover all the logistics of running a WW2 war economy, from who you put into charge of what, to allocation of production resources, to division and army compositions, to the supply network and more.

At the same time a lot of it feels like busywork. Sure, it's kind of cool to design my own tanks down to types of suspension and how many machine guns to put on them, or deciding who is on my general staff or sending spies on missions to foster insurrection in Tunisia for the French.

And while that's kind of cool for immersion, it's also never hiding the fact that you're "only" manipulating numbers. Combat stats of your divisions, production modifiers, terrain effect modifiers etc. Yes, balancing the design of a tank or submarine to (maybe) give me a bit of an edge is kinda cool. At the same time, I feel not all too much is lost in a more abstract system where I choose to invest resources in research or production and get a "Pz Div +1" after a while. :P

Part of that may be that the AI is usually woefully unable to use these (and other) mechanics properly. If you look up guide videos on how to handle your navy, and the most common recommendation is "just build tons of the most basic subs, ignore all else," followed by "as Britain, move all your ships to London to reorganize your fleets" then immersion goes out the window fast.

I started one game as Germany, trying to play historical, with all AIs set to historical paths. All went reasonably well till after I took out Poland. I had invited Italy into the Axis, so obviously France roflstomped them in Northern Italy and pushed into Austria. Meanwhile, I had no idea what I was doing in terms of navy and coastal defense, so Britain destroyed my inexperienced ships, landed tons of troops, and I quit that game. Oh, and I had accidentally sent volunteers to Republican Spain instead of Franco. Oops. :D

Second attempt, playing more conservatively, but I'm already thinking, "great, have to go through all the build up again, manage my construction queues, save my points to re-design divisions/select my general staff perks etc. ..." I get that trying out different paths through the focus tree and different force set ups/strategies is one of the main attractions of the game, but ... ugh. :lol: And tbh, the idea of doing something like a proper Weserübung to invade Norway seems rather tedious. Don't even want to think about handling the Pacific Theater. :ph34r:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on September 12, 2022, 03:37:33 AM
So while delaying the war as Germany to build up more troops, Stalin decided to go after Poland/Romania ... a bit over a year in, and it's not going well for the Reds (fighting alone against the Allies) ...  :hmm:

(https://i.postimg.cc/w9w07xMF/image.png)
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: grumbler on September 12, 2022, 06:16:26 AM
Quote from: Syt on September 12, 2022, 03:37:33 AMSo while delaying the war as Germany to build up more troops, Stalin decided to go after Poland/Romania ... a bit over a year in, and it's not going well for the Reds (fighting alone against the Allies) ...  :hmm:

(https://i.postimg.cc/w9w07xMF/image.png)

It's been so long since I've played the game sans Kaiserreich that I found it peculiar that Italy, for instance, isn't divided into four countries and French North Africa is the same color as France.  :lol:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Josephus on September 12, 2022, 08:23:45 AM
I've been playing consistently since May, and I realize I suck at it. I can only win as the USA (take Japan out first, then do D-Day). Everyone else I either fall into a WW1 quagmire or I get butt kicked (USSR). I keep hearing how I should blitz with armor and use infantry to fill gaps, but armor is only effecitve in plains. Even in slightly hilly territories, the penalty is too great and I get bogged down. And supply....man I take two territories and I'm out of supply.
And yeah, on Youtube, there's a lot of number crunchers out there, and number crunching is not my thing. No one seems to agree on an optimum width anymore. No one agrees on optimum templates.
And yeah, the ship and tank designers are bewildering. Sorry, I don't know enough about destroyers to know what is the most effective type of gun on the rear end. And now they're introducing aircraft designers.
Yet, I keep returning to it.  :D
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on September 12, 2022, 10:59:55 AM
I tried to play recently. Too many options to keep track of, and it didn't seem like there were enough of them that truly made a difference to the game flow (how would I know if they did or not?)

Some of these problems go back to HoI I. 
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on September 12, 2022, 12:26:08 PM
Continued my game. Russia got smashed into a million pieces. Romania took the bulk of it. I pushed Denmark to become fascist, and the US immediately declared war on Denmark. :D

Occupied Yugoslavia turned into a puppet state, and got couped. So I dow'ed them ... and couldn't attack. I had transformed my army into all armor + mechanized. Turns out I couldn't get enough supplies down there to get anything going (the armies of my "allies" hanging around the border regions didn't help. So I nuked Belgrade, but that didn' move the needle to get them to surrender. I think I'm done with this run. :lol:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: DGuller on September 12, 2022, 06:38:35 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 12, 2022, 03:37:33 AMSo while delaying the war as Germany to build up more troops, Stalin decided to go after Poland/Romania ... a bit over a year in, and it's not going well for the Reds (fighting alone against the Allies) ...  :hmm:

(https://i.postimg.cc/w9w07xMF/image.png)
That happens pretty much every time when you delay the war as Germany.  The biggest danger of delaying the war as Germany is that you may die from boredom.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on September 13, 2022, 01:13:10 AM
Yeah, I noticed that. :P

What I'm noticing is that while the game seems to give you tons of options, there are optimal paths of playing - the ideal navy (or the meme navy that uses exploits), the ideal divisions, the ideal focuses etc. Even just retrying a historical playthrough of Germany I quickly find myself settling into fixed patterns that I just tweak. For focuses - go Rheinland, then 4 Year Plan to rush the extra research slot, then Anschluss/Sudeten/Danzig, with occasional tank/air focuses sprinkled in if my standing armies aren't big enough for other focuses yet.

Build up industries like crazy. Tweak divisions to be stronger. Hire Hess & Bormann for those 15% political power bonuses. Not sure yet if upgrading my intelligence techs all the way as soon as I can is worth it. The missions seem mostly like fluff (except decryption). In tech, rush production/research bonuses, and a bit of military tech.

There's little variations in any of this, I feel, unless you want to go alt-history. Now, other games (War in the East, Warplan, Strategic Command) also offer very little variation in how you can do things (you might get a decision in Strategic Command on whether or not you want to spend some production points to do Weserübung or deploy the Afrika Korps), but it doesn't seem buried under a ton of fluff. I think my issue might be that there's "optimal" ways of playing and the game punishes you (inadvertently) for not following them, because it puts you behind. Or am I completely off mark here? :unsure:

And I wish there were ways of streamlining things. Upgrading equipment is one of the least fun things for me to do in any game. Not because I don't see the value in it, or the logic, but because it stresses me out. :D "I've developed new weapons, and I could upgrade my units, but in a few months, another two techs are ready and I should wait for them to do a full redesign to make it more efficient, but I'm also a bit behind the enemies ..." I guess it allows for reflecting different design philosophies (e.g. Germans tinkering a lot with their production models during the war, vs. the Soviets who kept building existing designs despite known flaws and then later doing a bigger upgrade). I guess I wish there was an easier way to do it than designing a new unit, then assigning it to production, then waiting for the new stock to be rolled out to the units in the field and used in new division designs.

That said, what happens to your old equipment? :unsure:

For a beginner it's all pretty overwhelming and finnicky, and it kinda makes me wish I could automate some areas or at least set broader goals that the game then executes. "Research advanced medium tank hulls, armor and engines, plus this gun upgrade. When finished, create new design and assign to production, replacing previous model." Or, even better, let me design a tank to replace an existing model, then assign two research slots to it, and the game does the rest, if I don't want to micro it. I mean we have a fair amount of automatic work happening when assigning armies to fronts and battle plans, and even air forces are very abstract (microing will be more efficient, but I wouldn't want to go back to micro-managing the Eastern Front in previous titles anymore; if I want that, I'd play War in the East or Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa). :P

I guess I can be happy that you generally will only have one type of medium, small, heavy tank instead of being even more granular e.g. producing Pz-III, Pz-IV in various variants in parallel and assigning them to different division templates. :P

I admire the ambition to model all these aspects of managing a conflict like WW2, and it's awesome for immersion, but I'm also not sure how much the granularity is really adding. Can anyone help me out with this? I feel I'm missing something to make the game "click" for me. :unsure:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on September 13, 2022, 11:48:18 AM
3rd video about the new features coming with the next expansion (includes plane designer):

https://youtu.be/_6HMyuuqGh0

Part 1 here: https://youtu.be/fC9XeEfDR7k
Part 2 here: https://youtu.be/Ar9Bxp3Px3c


Per latest video they'll add a commander to EVERY DIVISION, and they will have a log about what actions/battles the unit took part in during the war. You can award medals to those commanders/divisions which will give them some bonuses. Also, you can recruit division commanders as Army generals. :lol:

Battle plans will be dynamically named. So if you create a battle plan as Germany against Poland it might get named "Fall Weiß", but you can also select your own names (yet they still can't assign flavorful names to armies, army groups and theaters ... really love getting "Army 1" and "Army 2" as Germany :rolleyes: )
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: grumbler on September 13, 2022, 08:14:44 PM
In my version of the game I can rename every ship, squadron, division, army, theater, fleet, etc.  I can even rename plane models.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on September 13, 2022, 11:42:00 PM
Quote from: grumbler on September 13, 2022, 08:14:44 PMIn my version of the game I can rename every ship, squadron, division, army, theater, fleet, etc.  I can even rename plane models.

Yes, but major nations have a pool of names that will be assigned. Ships have various naming lists that are preselected or that you can change, divisions get simple local language names (1. Infanteriedivision, 2. Infanteriedivision), plane squadrons get "Stuka-Geschwader" or something. It applies to most things that can be renamed. Game will have a country based names list that is applied by default and that you can override if desired.

That's why I was surprised that when you form an army as Germany it's named "Army 1" instead of "1. Armee", and if you create an army group it will be "Army Group 1" instead of "Heeresgruppe 1" or "Heeresgruppe A". It's a minor annoyance but mostly a weird inconsistency. I'm sure there's some coding reason for it, same as the misplaced Kiel Canal (though I've seen that some overhaul mods correct that placement).
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: grumbler on September 14, 2022, 12:02:53 PM
Quote from: Syt on September 13, 2022, 11:42:00 PMYes, but major nations have a pool of names that will be assigned. Ships have various naming lists that are preselected or that you can change, divisions get simple local language names (1. Infanteriedivision, 2. Infanteriedivision), plane squadrons get "Stuka-Geschwader" or something. It applies to most things that can be renamed. Game will have a country based names list that is applied by default and that you can override if desired.

That's why I was surprised that when you form an army as Germany it's named "Army 1" instead of "1. Armee", and if you create an army group it will be "Army Group 1" instead of "Heeresgruppe 1" or "Heeresgruppe A". It's a minor annoyance but mostly a weird inconsistency. I'm sure there's some coding reason for it, same as the misplaced Kiel Canal (though I've seen that some overhaul mods correct that placement).

There are tons of name-replacing mods, for virtually every country and name-type.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Alcibiades on September 15, 2022, 03:04:52 PM
@ Syt you asked above what happens to old equipment, it's used to fill deficiencies or shortages if your primary equipment runs out of supply.  Or you can always lend lease it to allies to help them.  There's a tab in the logistics tab that shows all of your stockpiles of equipment.

I play KR from time to time, but my favorite mod by far is Ultra Historical Mod - Realism Overhaul.  Makes the industry a lot more interesting and the AI is a lot more competitive than vanilla without cheating - which may not be what some here are looking for  :P
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Razgovory on September 15, 2022, 07:35:03 PM
Hey, Alci!
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Alcibiades on September 15, 2022, 08:04:58 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on September 15, 2022, 07:35:03 PMHey, Alci!
:cheers:
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: grumbler on September 27, 2022, 01:53:10 PM
Once again, Paradox is fucking with save games.  They keep releasing these bitty mods that ruin save games, and using the beta feature when using mods doesn't work because the mods themselves get updated erratically to match the new game versions and so break saves themselves.

There really should be a "don't fuck with my current setup" setting that disables all updates until manually turned off, because this game is too big to play in one setting but too transitory to play over multiple sessions.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on October 02, 2022, 02:07:31 AM
I was running an observer only game while watching a series yesterday, and noticed some weird things (I know, AI is supposedly not designed for this, but still ... ).

The Axis formed around Britain (went King's Party)/Germany/Hungary, with Japan joining later. US led the Commonwealth, mostly consisting of US, Canada, fascist South Africa, plus minors. Australia turned communist. Italy became democratic. France formed the Little Entente with Czechs and Romanians, but died after some back and forth against UK over the mainland and stayed out of everything after that.

For a long time there was a three-way war between the three blocks. The Comintern eventually managed to occupy Germany and German occupied Italy, and made peace. However, everyone reverted to pre-war borders, and there were no regime changes.  :huh:  :hmm:

Afterwards, some stupid little conflict sparked a new war between Axis and Comintern; this time the Axis won and dismantled the USSR. The Soviets (with four territories spread out across Russia and the Russian Federation - what's the AI's obsession with creating non-contiguous territories after war ... ???) went to war once more and were wiped out.

Afterwards, China collapsed and it and independent India got split between the Axis partners - UK, Germany, Japan, though Venezuela had a puppet in Inner Asia, and Nationalist Spain (which, together with Germany, now owned Australia which was never occupied ... ) had multiple enclaves in China, too. The USA, meanwhile, mostly stayed out of the fighting. They held parts of NW Africa, and had sent troops to China and Scandinavia, plus occupied hostile territories in the Americas. But other than that they stayed out of everything despite having a huge navy and army, being at war with the relevant parties, and having a bunch of nukes that they didn't use (same as Germany).

About 50% Africa decolonized quite nicely, though, which was kinda fun to watch, but for a few years there were two different Soviet Republics of the Nile (the survivor became a UK puppet, eventually).

Overall it was a fun and silly little alt-hist to watch unfold, though the post-war border gore is really hard to stomach, and I don't know why the USSR basically white peaced the Axis when they had them dead to rights (the German capital was on Sumatra for two or three years).
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on April 01, 2023, 04:13:30 AM
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: grumbler on May 29, 2023, 10:40:54 PM
I can't believe those motherfuckers broke my save again.

I'm giving up on Paradox games that are current-generation.  Fucking waste of money for anyone that can't play every day.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on May 30, 2023, 12:07:49 AM
Can't you roll back to a previous version of the game on Steam?
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: grumbler on May 30, 2023, 06:56:40 PM
Quote from: Syt on May 30, 2023, 12:07:49 AMCan't you roll back to a previous version of the game on Steam?

No, because the mods are (slowly) changed to support the updated version of the game and crash retro versions.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on May 31, 2023, 12:20:51 AM
Yeah, I was afraid of that. Don't know about HoI, but in CK3 some of the bigger mods have older patch versions still stashed somewhere (e.g. github) or may post/DM them if you ask them.

I made backups of Paradox mod folders in the past for cases like that. Then if the patch hits and your mods are updated, you can at least install them manually and continue your game on the old patch version (also a good idea if you tweak some of the mods yourself to your liking).

In an ideal world we would have versioning of mods on the Steam workshop but I'm not holding my breath for that.
Title: Re: Hearts of Iron IV
Post by: Syt on October 18, 2023, 10:40:00 AM
I keep telling myself, "eventually, I will get into this."

More of an amusing note, though is the focus trees at this point. This is Germany and Japan:

(https://i.imgur.com/EELcDAf.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/WN4JOFO.png)

Meanwhile, following various expansions etc. we have the Soviet Union, which is "slightly" bigger:

(https://i.imgur.com/KZzvrDJ.png)

It wouldn't be so bad if other Germany, US, Japan would get upgrades as well.

Meanwhile we have this in Sweden, Poland, and Denmark:

(https://i.imgur.com/K8aDnj1.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/tbFrE1Z.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/fnpNSzF.png)

I think there might be a slight imbalance in options there. :P