Okay, so I realized that no matter how much I prefer OS X, I actually spend almost all of my time in Windows. And really, having a separate OS X computer just to be able to use iTunes isn't really worthwhile.
So, I've been saving up to buy a new gaming PC. And for fun, I'd like to try my hand at building one.
I've been playing around with https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/ (let me say, the lower loonie really sucks for stuff like this), and I'm starting to have a few ideas. I think I have two competing ideas I'd like to keep in mind:
1. Since my last computer (2008 Mac Pro )lasted 7+ years, I'd better make this purchase a good one. I have no idea when I might buy another one.
2. After having the Mac Pro, I do like that it's such an easy case to work with, and it's really quiet. So a nice case and quiet operation is important.
3. Intel and Nvidia. I have no loyalty to those companies, but that seems to be the market leaders right now.
So anyways, I have a bit of time to play with. I've been checking out different builds, different components (man, I'm completely lost when it comes to motherboards), but this seems to be the first question - what about Skylake? Intel is supposed to be coming out with their new processors as early as next week. Should I try and get a Skylake CPU (despite the fact they may be expensive and in limited supply), or do I stick with a two-generations-old Haswell processor?
And besides that, if anyone wants to give me a sample build working with the principles I mentioned, I'm all ears. I'm thinking I'd like to stick to a budget around $1200 CDN. And while there might be some wriggle room in that, it's not unlimited.
The first Haswell processors were hit and miss when it came to how warm they run. But kind of fast.
With a new range being introduced, I'd wait and see a bit.
AMD/Nvidia... well, it's a toss-up really. I prefer Nvidia for the drivers and their Nvidia Experience software, but I notice AMD is getting better too with my living room media PC. Just make sure you get a good motherboard and a decent amount of RAM. Asus or ASRock are rarely bad. Depending on what case you choose, I'd try and get a custom cooled graphics card. Even the regular Nvidia ones make a lot of noise. MSI's latest cooler is the very best I have had. With two GTX 980 in SLi, that particular card keeps cool and the noise level is hardly audible. The eVGA one however is like five bombers coming into your room when it reaches 60 degrees Celsisu. The ACX 2.0 is probably fair with just one card, though.
Consider closed loop cooling for you processor. Intel is massively ahead of AMD and probably will be for the foreseeable future. The i7 4790k will probably drop when Skylake arrives, and is a great workhorse for almost anything, it seems. I have the little brother, i7 4770k. It can be clocked at a reasonably stable rate a 4.9 Ghz. But, like I said, it runs hot.
The i7 4790k is supposedly less prone to menopausal heatwaves.
2 GTX 980 in SLI? :blink:
And they say I have expensive tastes!
Some people are crazy like that :P
I'll get back to you in a couple of days with a nice build to fit your budget :)
As Norg said, the i7 4790k is a good choice, but if it's too pricey, the i5 4690k will do the trick for most gaming.
I wouldn't hold my breath expecting a price drop on these CPUs.
Quote from: viper37 on July 28, 2015, 05:29:54 PM
And they say I have expensive tastes!
Some people are crazy like that :P
I'll get back to you in a couple of days with a nice build to fit your budget :)
As Norg said, the i7 4790k is a good choice, but if it's too pricey, the i5 4690k will do the trick for most gaming.
I wouldn't hold my breath expecting a price drop on these CPUs.
The playing around I've done was generally around an i5, figuring for gaming the GPU is more important than the CPU.
Also..., while I wouldn't refuse a k CPU, I won't overclock. Easier to keep heat (and thus fans, and thus sound) under control without doing it.
Dead to me Beeb.
Quote from: katmai on July 28, 2015, 08:47:14 PM
Dead to me Beeb.
I still have:
iPhone
iPad
Apple TV
AirPort Extreme
I think the Steve Jobs will forgive me one Windows machine. -_-
Having a Windows machine is like being a little black - just one makes you a Windows person, no matter how many apple devices you own.
Appletards are loyal to the extreme. Turn in your badge.
This may be the optimal time to look at new computers, with Win 10 being released.
As far as I understand, MS will stop pushing a new OS every 5-6 years and rather go for Apple's model of improving the existing one.
Quote from: Barrister on July 28, 2015, 10:34:57 PM
Quote from: katmai on July 28, 2015, 08:47:14 PM
Dead to me Beeb.
I still have:
iPhone
iPad
Apple TV
AirPort Extreme
I think the Steve Jobs will forgive me one Windows machine. -_-
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk%2Fi%2Fkeep-calm-and-consider-yourself-one-of-us.png&hash=7894f196ebde7a2af2bc22cd232064cc1bf9c51b)
Quote from: Barrister on July 28, 2015, 04:28:30 PM
2 GTX 980 in SLI? :blink:
He has a giant monitor & games at 1440p
right, Norgy?
Norgy is rich :yes:
Quote from: Berkut on July 28, 2015, 11:56:30 PM
Having a Windows machine is like being a little black - just one makes you a Windows person, no matter how many apple devices you own.
Appletards are loyal to the extreme. Turn in your badge.
Never! My Appletard badge is so old it is rainbow-coloured!
Besides, we still have Mrs B's Macbook Pro.
You are going to need to SLI the new Titans pretty soon.
Skylake is going to be released in just over a week. Might want to wait a few weeks to see how that effects prices. Viper is probably right that prices won't change much for existing CPUs but on the off chance they do drop you will benefit.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 29, 2015, 10:35:25 AM
Skylake is going to be released in just over a week. Might want to wait a few weeks to see how that effects prices. Viper is probably right that prices won't change much for existing CPUs but on the off chance they do drop you will benefit.
There's no doubt I'm waiting a few weeks - I'm saving up now, and won't have the money 'till the fall.
Quote from: Barrister on July 28, 2015, 04:06:54 PM
And besides that, if anyone wants to give me a sample build working with the principles I mentioned, I'm all ears. I'm thinking I'd like to stick to a budget around $1200 CDN. And while there might be some wriggle room in that, it's not unlimited.
I built one for Berkut the other day, using the same baseline:
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/user/Viper371/saved/#view=pQYYcf (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/user/Viper371/saved/#view=pQYYcf)
It comes in at 1260$CAN.
With an i5, you save 120$, but I recommend going over budget in your case since you want to keep it longer. CPUs are harder to change than video card.
This excludes the monitor, of course, as well as kb and mouse. If you want to fit 1200$ with all that in extra, we'll have to considerably lower the specs.
Since you don't want to overclock, I used a more generic board. It has less cooling options, so it might overheat and be unstable if you try your hands at overclocking, and you might need to add some more fans into your case.
I've picked the Radeon 280. It's a very decent card for a very decent price.
It's not future proof, then again, I doubt anything his. AMD just introduced it's 8gb cards a few weeks ago, and that will be the next standard.
I'd say pick this one, and in 2-3 years, if you still want to keep your computer, upgrade the video card.
EDIT:
I picked DDR-2133mhz not because you need it, but because it was cheaper than the equivalent 1866mhz, due to a store special on NCIX. As prices will change by the time you buy it, I recommend going for 16gb DDR3-1866mhz, or above if it's cheaper, just don't pay a premium for it, you won't use it.
Quote from: Barrister on July 29, 2015, 11:16:33 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 29, 2015, 10:35:25 AM
Skylake is going to be released in just over a week. Might want to wait a few weeks to see how that effects prices. Viper is probably right that prices won't change much for existing CPUs but on the off chance they do drop you will benefit.
There's no doubt I'm waiting a few weeks - I'm saving up now, and won't have the money 'till the fall.
Canadian stores tends to have big savings around Thanksgiving, especially NCIX.
Of course, their Black Friday sale is huge, but you have to be flexible on what you want and wait that much longer.
Quote from: viper37 on July 29, 2015, 01:37:31 PM
Quote from: Barrister on July 28, 2015, 04:06:54 PM
And besides that, if anyone wants to give me a sample build working with the principles I mentioned, I'm all ears. I'm thinking I'd like to stick to a budget around $1200 CDN. And while there might be some wriggle room in that, it's not unlimited.
I built one for Berkut the other day, using the same baseline:
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/user/Viper371/saved/#view=pQYYcf (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/user/Viper371/saved/#view=pQYYcf)
It comes in at 1260$CAN.
With an i5, you save 120$, but I recommend going over budget in your case since you want to keep it longer. CPUs are harder to change than video card.
This excludes the monitor, of course, as well as kb and mouse. If you want to fit 1200$ with all that in extra, we'll have to considerably lower the specs.
Since you don't want to overclock, I used a more generic board. It has less cooling options, so it might overheat and be unstable if you try your hands at overclocking, and you might need to add some more fans into your case.
I've picked the Radeon 280. It's a very decent card for a very decent price.
It's not future proof, then again, I doubt anything his. AMD just introduced it's 8gb cards a few weeks ago, and that will be the next standard.
I'd say pick this one, and in 2-3 years, if you still want to keep your computer, upgrade the video card.
EDIT:
I picked DDR-2133mhz not because you need it, but because it was cheaper than the equivalent 1866mhz, due to a store special on NCIX. As prices will change by the time you buy it, I recommend going for 16gb DDR3-1866mhz, or above if it's cheaper, just don't pay a premium for it, you won't use it.
You seem to be missing a case and a PSU... :hmm:
I have a 27" monitor I'm happy with. The Apple keyboard is quite nice actually so I might keep that, and for a mouse I use a generic logitech I'll probably keep as well. The bigger question is the spakers - they're 12+ year old Dell speaks that came with a long-ago computer. I wonder if I should replace those.
And do Canadian stores tend to have sales around Canadian thanksgiving? That would work well with my timeline. Black Friday... not so much...
And as for case, I think I really want this one...
http://www.ncix.com/detail/fractal-design-define-r5-atx-70-102217-1338.htm
NCIX has a sale every weekends. It will have one on Canadian Thanksgiving.
I bought my last computer from NCIX and was very happy with it and their service. Now I see the have many more stores - one was opened just 4 blocks away from the existing store I went to. They must be doing something right.
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 29, 2015, 02:56:31 PM
I bought my last computer from NCIX and was very happy with it and their service. Now I see the have many more stores - one was opened just 4 blocks away from the existing store I went to. They must be doing something right.
I didn't even know they had physical locations.
*quickly googles*
Looks like BC and Ontario only.
I've changed a few things, added a case, PSU and DVD drive.
Lowered the video card to 270X to try and fit your budget, still 100$ above.
I'll check something else tonight.
Quote from: viper37 on July 29, 2015, 04:17:16 PM
I've changed a few things, added a case, PSU and DVD drive.
Lowered the video card to 270X to try and fit your budget, still 100$ above.
I'll check something else tonight.
:hug:
I like this build. Still not sold on the Radeon, but whatever.
Like viper says, nothing in the world of graphics cards seems future-proof.
Most sane people (unlike me) go for mid-end graphics cards and add a second one. I went full retard this time.
Reviewers seem to think the GTX 970 is the best price/performance value these days, but I doubt you can do much wrong the the AMD chips either.
Just get a custom coolers, as tests seem to indicate they run quite hot.
Quote from: Norgy on July 29, 2015, 04:42:12 PM
Reviewers seem to think the GTX 970 is the best price/performance value these days,
Probably true, but in his case, that's 200$ more. He gets a better card, a much better card (the 270x might be weak for modern games at high resolution), but it's 200$ more.
Quote
Just get a custom coolers, as tests seem to indicate they run quite hot.
The card I recommended is ok. Most major manufacturers add their own cooling devices.
Quote from: Barrister on July 29, 2015, 04:28:16 PM
Quote from: viper37 on July 29, 2015, 04:17:16 PM
I've changed a few things, added a case, PSU and DVD drive.
Lowered the video card to 270X to try and fit your budget, still 100$ above.
I'll check something else tonight.
:hug:
I like this build. Still not sold on the Radeon, but whatever.
the hard drive isn't really fast, keep that in mind. If you want decent performance, you'll likely have to shuffle things back&forth between the SSD and HDD, one game at a time.
Steammover and Appmover are great for this.
Looking something else. The new 370,380,390 are dropping fast. They are rebranded 270,280 and 290.
If you look at this one:
http://www.ncix.com/detail/powercolor-radeon-r9-380-pcs-6c-110346-1912.htm?affiliateid=7474144
It has good cooling and it's 285$, currently 30$ more than the card I recommended, but it's similar to a GTX 960.
By automn, there will lots of specials on these cards, just make sure to pick one with decent cooling and 4gb DDR5.
This card would let you play games are full resolution, something the 270x would not.
Quote from: Barrister on July 29, 2015, 02:07:56 PM
The bigger question is the spakers - they're 12+ year old Dell speaks that came with a long-ago computer. I wonder if I should replace those.
a good 5.1 speaker set for the computer, for gaming and music, that will set you off 400$.
I've searched a replacement for years for my speakers, and it's the reason why I haven't changed my old Logitech.
If you do decide to change them, I'd advise wireless satellites + conventional 2.1 kit for the front ones.
just use headphones?
It can be 20$
Quote from: Berkut on July 28, 2015, 11:56:30 PM
Having a Windows machine is like being a little black - just one makes you a Windows person, no matter how many apple devices you own.
Appletards are loyal to the extreme. Turn in your badge.
My lab is a constant battleground. I have an XServe sitting on a shelf above a Windows box sitting on a desk above a Linux box. I have a (currently unused) SPARC box in the closet. :P
Quote from: viper37 on July 30, 2015, 11:35:12 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 30, 2015, 11:23:44 AM
just use headphones?
that's 200$+.
Sure but computer speakers are only used for the computer. A good pair of headphones have a lot more uses.
BB, there are these stores in Alberta, direct competitor to NCIX:
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Stores
Not as big, but I've ordered from them in the past, they had decent prices and excellent shipping service.
I did not require after sale service, so I can't tell you about it.
Quote from: viper37 on July 31, 2015, 10:37:47 AM
BB, there are these stores in Alberta, direct competitor to NCIX:
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Stores
Not as big, but I've ordered from them in the past, they had decent prices and excellent shipping service.
I did not require after sale service, so I can't tell you about it.
Cool. I know where that store is, though I didn't actually know what kind of stuff they sold.
I'll probably order the major components online, but it's nice to have a local store if you unexpectedly are missing a cable or something.
Okay, so I took a stab at picking parts for a computer:
Component Selection Base Promo Shipping Tax Price Where
CPU
Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor
$329.98 $329.98 NCIX
Buy
CPU Cooler
Scythe Kotetsu 79.0 CFM CPU Cooler
$112.79 $112.79 Amazon Canada
Buy
Motherboard
Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard
$139.99 $8.99 $148.98 Newegg Canada
Buy
Memory
G.Skill Ripjaws 4 series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory
$151.34 $151.34 DirectCanada
Buy
Add Additional Memory
Storage
Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
$128.75 $128.75 shopRBC
Buy
Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive
$59.95 $59.95 Vuugo
Buy
Add Additional Storage
Video Card
EVGA GeForce GTX 960 4GB SuperSC ACX 2.0+ Video Card
$299.99 -$20.00 $279.99 Memory Express
Buy
$20.00 mail-in rebate
Case
Fractal Design Define R5 w/Window (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case
$169.99 $169.99 Memory Express
Buy
Power Supply
Cooler Master 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply
$99.99 -$20.00 FREE $79.99 NCIX
Buy
$20.00 mail-in rebate
Optical Drive
Samsung SH-224DB/BEBE DVD/CD Writer
$19.99 $19.99 Memory Express
Buy
Add Another Optical Drive
Operating System
Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM (64-bit)
$124.99 $124.99 Memory Express
Buy
http://ca.pcpartpicker.com/p/vYBrgs
Total comes to $1600. <_<
But then I checked out EBay - 2008 Mac Pros like mine seem to be selling for around $500. Perhaps I could recoup part of the costs that way?
But how well does it work trying to sell something on ebay when you have no account or selling history?
Quote from: Barrister on August 11, 2015, 01:48:51 PM
But how well does it work trying to sell something on ebay when you have no account or selling history?
In my experience: not well. But you got to start somewhere. You might sell it for only 250$ though. Pick a reserve price if you're not willing to sell it too low, try your luck. It doesn't cost much and if it doesn't sell, you'll get credited for the fees.
As for your set-up, 1TB is not enough for gaming, go for 2TB. I have had very bad experience with Seagate in the past, but they may have corrected their problems.
Also, why are you buying Win10? You have a Windows 7 DVD with you? Just install it in the new computer, make all the updates (likely a 2 days operation) then upgrade to Win10 for free. 125$ in your pocket. Or use Linux Mint (Free) + Crossover for 60$ a year. You are used to exotic OS :P
Quote from: viper37 on August 11, 2015, 02:01:45 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 11, 2015, 01:48:51 PM
But how well does it work trying to sell something on ebay when you have no account or selling history?
In my experience: not well. But you got to start somewhere. You might sell it for only 250$ though. Pick a reserve price if you're not willing to sell it too low, try your luck. It doesn't cost much and if it doesn't sell, you'll get credited for the fees.
As for your set-up, 1TB is not enough for gaming, go for 2TB. I have had very bad experience with Seagate in the past, but they may have corrected their problems.
I wish the older Intel CPUs would drop in price. <_<
The build I posted of course has a Skylake processor. It's not a whole hell of a lot faster than the previous generation, but the advantage seems to be in the new chipset - more bandwidth, DDR4 RAM, and the prices are about the same.
Quote from: Barrister on August 11, 2015, 02:06:27 PM
The build I posted of course has a Skylake processor. It's not a whole hell of a lot faster than the previous generation, but the advantage seems to be in the new chipset - more bandwidth, DDR4 RAM, and the prices are about the same.
yes, if you're buying now, given the low difference in price, it's worth it to go for Skylake.
I've edited my previous message btw, re: Win10.
Quote from: viper37 on August 11, 2015, 02:09:27 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 11, 2015, 02:06:27 PM
The build I posted of course has a Skylake processor. It's not a whole hell of a lot faster than the previous generation, but the advantage seems to be in the new chipset - more bandwidth, DDR4 RAM, and the prices are about the same.
yes, if you're buying now, given the low difference in price, it's worth it to go for Skylake.
I've edited my previous message btw, re: Win10.
My Win 7 DVD was used in the Mac Pro. I thought there was some way MS could check that you weren't re-using it?
Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy to not spend the $100.
And OS X is free. :blurgh:
Quote from: Barrister on August 11, 2015, 02:11:33 PM
My Win 7 DVD was used in the Mac Pro. I thought there was some way MS could check that you weren't re-using it?
Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy to not spend the $100.
Yes and no. The key is resetted after 4 months, so it will install without problem on your new computer.
Even if you have a problem, you call the automated line and tell the truth when they ask the question: you have it installed only one 1 computer.
And it is totally legal and legitimate, so long as you have a retail or upgrade version of Win7.
Quote
And OS X is free. :blurgh:
So is Linux. Doesn't make it a great OS either :P
Quote from: viper37 on August 11, 2015, 02:16:37 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 11, 2015, 02:11:33 PM
My Win 7 DVD was used in the Mac Pro. I thought there was some way MS could check that you weren't re-using it?
Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy to not spend the $100.
Yes and no. The key is resetted after 4 months, so it will install without problem on your new computer.
Even if you have a problem, you call the automated line and tell the truth when they ask the question: you have it installed only one 1 computer.
And it is totally legal and legitimate, so long as you have a retail or upgrade version of Win7.
Pretty sure it's an OEM copy... :unsure:
Quote from: Barrister on August 11, 2015, 03:25:30 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 11, 2015, 02:16:37 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 11, 2015, 02:11:33 PM
My Win 7 DVD was used in the Mac Pro. I thought there was some way MS could check that you weren't re-using it?
Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy to not spend the $100.
Yes and no. The key is resetted after 4 months, so it will install without problem on your new computer.
Even if you have a problem, you call the automated line and tell the truth when they ask the question: you have it installed only one 1 computer.
And it is totally legal and legitimate, so long as you have a retail or upgrade version of Win7.
Pretty sure it's an OEM copy... :unsure:
Then it's only legitimate ;)
It will work just fine, but technically, the OEM license is tied to the computer you first install it on (wich can only be sold with new computer hardware: whole computer, hard drive/SSD, motherboard, CPU*).
But it will work.
If you bought it standalone and it's OEM, you were already violating the license.
If you want to do it, you will have to do a clean install of Windows 7 on your new computer, activate it, install all the updates, wait the confirmation prompt to upgrade to Win10, the proceed directly through Windows Update or force the update with the ISO download on a USB key. If you need further instructions for creating the USB key:
http://www.howtogeek.com/forum/topic/how-to-do-a-clean-install-of-windows-7-8
*Not to sure about the CPU, can't remember, I think so, not sure... Definately sure about the other hardware parts though.
If you want to buy it, you should pick Windows 10 Pro instead of the basic version. But, you can get Windows 7 Home Premium, wich lets you upgrade to Win10 Pro and is sold 124$ instead of the 185$ for Win10 Pro.
Quote from: viper37 on August 11, 2015, 07:16:29 PM
If you want to buy it, you should pick Windows 10 Pro instead of the basic version. But, you can get Windows 7 Home Premium, wich lets you upgrade to Win10 Pro and is sold 124$ instead of the 185$ for Win10 Pro.
Why?
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 12, 2015, 09:51:37 AM
Quote from: viper37 on August 11, 2015, 07:16:29 PM
If you want to buy it, you should pick Windows 10 Pro instead of the basic version. But, you can get Windows 7 Home Premium, wich lets you upgrade to Win10 Pro and is sold 124$ instead of the 185$ for Win10 Pro.
Why?
if you ever have more than one computer that you want to link on a network, it will be infinately easier.
It has policy management, backup utility and encryption. Granted, the last two, you can get for free anywhere. The first one has its use in managing rights on the computer, who gets access to what.
It also has remote desktop, wich can be useful to access your computer at a distance.
I would not recommend paying 60$ more for that, but at the same price, it's worth it.
Quote from: viper37 on August 12, 2015, 04:56:04 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 12, 2015, 09:51:37 AM
Quote from: viper37 on August 11, 2015, 07:16:29 PM
If you want to buy it, you should pick Windows 10 Pro instead of the basic version. But, you can get Windows 7 Home Premium, wich lets you upgrade to Win10 Pro and is sold 124$ instead of the 185$ for Win10 Pro.
Why?
if you ever have more than one computer that you want to link on a network, it will be infinately easier.
It has policy management, backup utility and encryption. Granted, the last two, you can get for free anywhere. The first one has its use in managing rights on the computer, who gets access to what.
It also has remote desktop, wich can be useful to access your computer at a distance.
I would not recommend paying 60$ more for that, but at the same price, it's worth it.
eh, I can't see me ever doing any of that.
Quote from: Barrister on August 12, 2015, 05:03:59 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 12, 2015, 04:56:04 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 12, 2015, 09:51:37 AM
Quote from: viper37 on August 11, 2015, 07:16:29 PM
If you want to buy it, you should pick Windows 10 Pro instead of the basic version. But, you can get Windows 7 Home Premium, wich lets you upgrade to Win10 Pro and is sold 124$ instead of the 185$ for Win10 Pro.
Why?
if you ever have more than one computer that you want to link on a network, it will be infinately easier.
It has policy management, backup utility and encryption. Granted, the last two, you can get for free anywhere. The first one has its use in managing rights on the computer, who gets access to what.
It also has remote desktop, wich can be useful to access your computer at a distance.
I would not recommend paying 60$ more for that, but at the same price, it's worth it.
eh, I can't see me ever doing any of that.
the policy thing will let you login without entering password, while retaining it for any attempt at external use. Home version will let you assing a blank password.
Some may think I went overboard with my computer build.
But, really, this is what going overboard and then some is:
http://www.kitguru.net/desktop-pc/gaming-rig/leo-waldock/dinopc-raptor-watercooled-system-review/
I have been looking at the ncix site and some others and I realize I have no idea what I should get.
What is the purpose of the build?
How do you feel about sound issues?
How high can you go?
How high a resolution do you intend to use?
You can, basically, build a reasonably good computer for around 250 US dollars. It won't have stellar gaming performance and could be slow even for mundane tasks, but it'll work and run Win 10.
The only thing I would use this is for playing games.
I am not sure what you mean by sound issues so I guess I don't have any.
I am not sure how much I want to spend. Cost isn't really an issue but I don't want to be stupid about it either.
I have no idea about resolution. My last computer was purchased about 8 years ago and my monitor is older than that - may have to replace that also.
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 20, 2015, 08:49:00 AM
The only thing I would use this is for playing games.
I am not sure what you mean by sound issues so I guess I don't have any.
I am not sure how much I want to spend. Cost isn't really an issue but I don't want to be stupid about it either.
I have no idea about resolution. My last computer was purchased about 8 years ago and my monitor is older than that - may have to replace that also.
Sound issues means how bothered are you by a noisy computer. A lot of homemade systems are concerned about performance above all else, so they blast as much air through as possible to maximize their overclock - which makes their computer sound like a jet engine at takeoff.
What size and resolution is your monitor? That may indeed be a key upgrade for you. I bought a 27" a few years ago and that things great.
But most importantly... what sort of games do you think you'd want to play?
I agree it's all kind of bewildering. I'm still mostly lost at looking at motherboards, though I'm inching closer to pulling the pin. Probably start placing orders around labour day, hoping to have the thing up and running by the end of September.
It's a 19 inch screen. So probably time to replace it.
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 20, 2015, 09:29:17 AM
It's a 19 inch screen. So probably time to replace it.
Yes. Yes it is.
I missed your question about games. Mainly paradox type strategy games and games like Star Citizen when it comes out
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 20, 2015, 08:49:00 AM
Cost isn't really an issue but I don't want to be stupid about it either.
If cost isn't an issue (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/user/Viper371/saved/#view=MdYCmG)
If the first is overbudget (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/user/Viper371/saved/#view=NHDdnQ)
Start with this. Play with the site. You could replace your 32gb of the first build (wich may be a tad overkill right now) for a 16gb kit of the same brand. If you want more performance, you could buy a Geforce Titan X for video card, it'll cost you double of what I picked. Possibilites are infinite, only the budget is finite ;)
Thanks Viper that is very helpful.
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 20, 2015, 10:24:51 AM
Thanks Viper that is very helpful.
Okay, as usual of course Viper's pics are both quite high end stuff.
And more than that... yes, if you want to get back into computer games I do strongly urge you to get a better monitor. Even a nice 23-24", 1080p setup will make games more enjoyable.
But of the games you mentioned... Paradox games are not graphically intensive. They might help from a faster CPU, I'm not sure (and they'd definitely help from being on a SSD), but if that's your target, it's a fairly low one.
Star Citizen... now that game is unreleased, but I'm willing to bet that it will eat up as many graphics processors as you can throw at it. I know Elite is like that - it's still quite playable on my current system, but I could get a lot more out of better graphics cards.
So you need to know whether you want to spend more on the possibility you might want to play a game like that (or, say, Fallout 4, which will also take advantage of a nice system).
Finally, Viper suggests a build your own. Now I've been looking into it, and it's what I'd like to do, but it's hardly the only route. I'm sure NCIX will sell you a ready-made system that you can plug in and go.
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 20, 2015, 08:49:00 AM
The only thing I would use this is for playing games.
I am not sure what you mean by sound issues so I guess I don't have any.
I am not sure how much I want to spend. Cost isn't really an issue but I don't want to be stupid about it either.
I have no idea about resolution. My last computer was purchased about 8 years ago and my monitor is older than that - may have to replace that also.
The latest "Skylake" processors from Intel are getting rave reviews. You probably don't need the most high-end. Tests also reveal that anything above 8 GB of RAM is mostly wasted for games.
A good, stable motherboard from say Asus or ASRock will do. Nothing too fancy.
Where you probably will want to spend money is on a good GPU. I've said it before; the nVidia GTX 970 is probably the best for price/performance. Go for the MSI version. Their cooler is the bee's knees.
Also, a decent SSD for your system and a 3 TB mechanical disk for your data. I recommend Samsung's SSDs.
Sound issues usually come when you overclock, like Beeb says, or when you stuff two rather hot GPUs inside an encased area. Even with a so-called "silent" case, I experience a lot of sound from my GPUs. Granted, I should expect that. When buying a case, sound is also something to take into consideration. You have somewhat different choices across the pond, but I hear good things about Corsair's mid-range cases.
Quote from: viper37 on August 20, 2015, 10:15:27 AM
If you want more performance, you could buy a Geforce Titan X for video card, it'll cost you double of what I picked. Possibilites are infinite, only the budget is finite ;)
I'd buy anything but the Titan X. :huh:
It's an over-priced, over-hyped piece of hardware where most of your GPU's resources will be unused for games. Unless you plan for 12k gaming.
Quote from: Norgy on August 20, 2015, 03:06:08 PM
It's an over-priced, over-hyped piece of hardware where most of your GPU's resources will be unused for games.
You mean like most Nvidia hardware? I agree :hug:
But lots of you are Nvidia fanboys, so I threw it. It's the best card on the market right now, when price is not an issue.
For the monitor and case, I think his best bet is to walk a computer store and watch the screens for himself to see what pleases him.
Aside that, I used the same basis as BB's computer. The i7 is a tad more future proof than the i5 if he wants to keep it untouched for 7-8 years.
Quote from: Norgy on August 20, 2015, 03:03:23 PM
The latest "Skylake" processors from Intel are getting rave reviews. You probably don't need the most high-end. Tests also reveal that anything above 8 GB of RAM is mostly wasted for games.
Actually they haven't. They've been getting very "meh" reviews, showing at best a 5-10% improvement over last couple of generations.
That being said I'm still planning on getting one. But it's more an issue that it sounds like it makes sense to get the latest chipset that goes along with Skylake.
Well, the latest i7 did.
The i5 not so much. It's an incremental improvement.
The first "Haswell" processors run hot, like mine, so there's less OC headroom. I'd still say the i7 2600k is one of the best processors Intel have made, though.
viper; nVidia is getting some decent competition again now, and I wouldn't say I am a fanboy of them for choosing them over AMD's poor drivers. That's my main issue with AMD. That, and the fact you probably can get blast furnaces that run less hot than AMD's reference cards.
Quote from: Norgy on August 20, 2015, 04:17:45 PM
viper; nVidia is getting some decent competition again now, and I wouldn't say I am a fanboy of them for choosing them over AMD's poor drivers. That's my main issue with AMD. That, and the fact you probably can get blast furnaces that run less hot than AMD's reference cards.
Okay, 2 things.
On Windows, there's no real differences between AMD and Nvidia driver-wise. Both have their strong and weak moments. Nvidia has had some major fuckups recently with Win10, something AMD mostly managed to avoid. Some games have had real problems with Nvidia drivers (like Dragon Age Inquisition) while AMD shone. The reverse could be said for other games, I'm sure of it, I just don't know any from the top of my head.
On Linux, Nvidia still rules, but AMD has gone full open source last year, IIRC and things are improving.
2nd, it's unfair to compare reference cards, especially when a few post above you recommend a non-reference design fro an Nvidia card ;)
Non reference AMD cards aren't selling for a huge premium, except maybe for the Sapphire Trinity, but that goes for Nvidia as well.
Often, you get a very decent card with 2-3 silent fans (or liquid cooling for the very latest models) for less than other brands using the reference design.
On release, the 290x consumed much more power while on idle than comparable Nvidia cards, but not while gaming. And this seems to have been fixed somewhere along the way, it was possibly a driver issue. If you look at recent benchmarks for the 290x and 390x 8gb, you'll see similar power consumption than the Titan or GTX 980.
Also, as a rule of thumb, when it comes to technology, I usually avoid the very latest and very high end products. They are sold at a premium for enthusiasts who always require the very latest tech out there.
Although not holding my breath, I'm still hoping for a small price reduction in previous Intel processor this fall around Black Friday.
Quote from: viper37 on August 21, 2015, 08:57:07 AM
Also, as a rule of thumb, when it comes to technology, I usually avoid the very latest and very high end products. They are sold at a premium for enthusiasts who always require the very latest tech out there.
Although not holding my breath, I'm still hoping for a small price reduction in previous Intel processor this fall around Black Friday.
I don't disagree with you nearly as much as you think. :)
I had a reference design nVidia GTX 780 from eVGA that gave me little headache. And a few years ago, the image was the exact opposite; AMD (or ATI Radeon) cards ran cooler and were by and large much better. Whatever you choose now, you'll get a good GPU most of the time. Also, I have noted that AMD's cards are cheaper vise versa the nVidia cards in North America compared to here.
By and large, the only area where AMD has really failed is with their CPUs. Their APUs manage to stay an attractive option for lower-end systems, though. I have one myself.
Looks like 2017 might be the year I do a full overhaul with new motherboard and CPU and that new RAM.
I don't disagree with the CPU, though, for the most part, it has to do with how games are coded. Most games don't use 4 or 8 cores in the CPU, they use one, then when it's at full capicity, they use another core. So Intel has better manufacturing process, they increase their core speed, make a second "virtual" core and add more cache to each core wich result in better performances overall in games, but slower in other Windows operations (copying files is slower on my i5 than it was on AMD FX 8 core).
I can see the difference, gaming-wise, with just a i5, it's blazingly fast compared to AMD. But every other operations are slower :( The i7 is just too much $$ for now. Besides, even AMD cpus have gone up in cost recently. The latest FX processors sells for as much as my i5 but provide slower gaming performances.
I think I will wait next year, when AMD releases their next CPU line. I will see how much of a challenge it is to Intel, see if overall prices drop.
The way I read the experts' comments, there were reasons to be excited over the new AMD lineup.
So I'm going to pull the trigger on the next day or two.
Now while PCPartspicker is a nice resource, I don't think I'm going to just blindly order from them. For starters I haven't heard of some of these retailers, and for seconds they don't take into account shipping costs, or any bundled deals you can get.
:hmm:
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 10:31:36 AM
So I'm going to pull the trigger on the next day or two.
Now while PCPartspicker is a nice resource, I don't think I'm going to just blindly order from them. For starters I haven't heard of some of these retailers, and for seconds they don't take into account shipping costs, or any bundled deals you can get.
:hmm:
they do take that into account. You need to click on the individual part to check each store, their shipping and their promo.
That store I gave you, Memory Express, I think they match competitor's price. NCIX will do up to a point (they won't give you a rebate below cost, as they used to, wich is logical). Others, I don't know.
I see the site as a tool to help you configure your PC, avoid any incompatibilities and such. Not the definitive shopping site.
There may well be stores that aren't listed that offer better prices.
Quote from: Barrister on August 11, 2015, 01:48:51 PM
But how well does it work trying to sell something on ebay when you have no account or selling history?
Super late on this, but Viper's right- it tends to not turn out well. eBay's kind of weird in that it's really gentrified. It's all about the feedback scores- it's even bled over to where some sellers won't sell to customers with low feedback scores (against eBay's TOS, but extremely commonplace anyway). On top of that, eBay's become far more of a thrift shop than an auction house- auction bids are relatively rare since customers became able to filter out auctions altogether in favor of buy-it-now prices. One of my jobs peripherally involved running a
very high-volume eBay store, so here's a quick snapshot of what I saw when fulfilling orders/pricing product: 70% buy-it-now, 25% lowball "best offers," only about 5% winning bids.
Orders placed on my new computer. :ph34r:
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 11:17:13 PM
Orders placed on my new computer. :ph34r:
did you order what you posted a few pages above? :)
Quote from: viper37 on August 24, 2015, 11:22:59 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 11:17:13 PM
Orders placed on my new computer. :ph34r:
did you order what you posted a few pages above? :)
Mostly. I cracked and spent more on a motherboard, and went down to 8GB RAM. I also realized the damn window on my case cost an extra $30, so I went windowless instead.
Quote from: Barrister on August 25, 2015, 09:21:14 AM
Quote from: viper37 on August 24, 2015, 11:22:59 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 11:17:13 PM
Orders placed on my new computer. :ph34r:
did you order what you posted a few pages above? :)
Mostly. I cracked and spent more on a motherboard, and went down to 8GB RAM. I also realized the damn window on my case cost an extra $30, so I went windowless instead.
you'll need a little more than 8gb if you want to use some gaming mods that increase texture quality. Some of the Skyrim mods do require 16gb. And any multitasking will drop your performance, so be sure to shut down everything else non essential while you game.
Basice games shouldn't be a problem for a while.
Quote from: viper37 on August 25, 2015, 01:35:35 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 25, 2015, 09:21:14 AM
Quote from: viper37 on August 24, 2015, 11:22:59 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 24, 2015, 11:17:13 PM
Orders placed on my new computer. :ph34r:
did you order what you posted a few pages above? :)
Mostly. I cracked and spent more on a motherboard, and went down to 8GB RAM. I also realized the damn window on my case cost an extra $30, so I went windowless instead.
you'll need a little more than 8gb if you want to use some gaming mods that increase texture quality. Some of the Skyrim mods do require 16gb. And any multitasking will drop your performance, so be sure to shut down everything else non essential while you game.
Basice games shouldn't be a problem for a while.
I can always buy more later on. :)
Which was part of the idea going with this rig. I could have gotten slightly better gaming performance by going with an older CPU and motherboard, and spending more on the graphics card. But going with the Z170 board and Skylake it should be more upgradeable in the future.
The majority of my rig except video card are turning 4 this Xmas. Think it is time to upgrade?!?
Quote from: katmai on August 25, 2015, 08:40:00 PM
The majority of my rig except video card are turning 4 this Xmas. Think it is time to upgrade?!?
Bah! My rig is 7 going on 8 before I upgraded!
But seriously... it's a question of what are you unhappy about with your current rig, and how much money do you have to burn? If you've got money burning a hole in your pocket the answer is yes without knowing anything more, but otherwise we need more details...
Oh the final listing on my rig:
CPU: Intel 6600K
Motherboard: Gigabyte GAZ170XP-SU (chosen because it was a bundle on Newegg with the CPU)
Cooler: Scythe Kotetsu (chosen because it's a bit hit on silentpcreview.com, and the 6600K doesn't have a stock cooler)
RAM: G.Skill 8GB 2400 (DDR4)
HD: Samsung 250GB (I dunno - Samsung was a familiar name)
HD: Seagate 2TB (was cheap, and I went with Viper's advice to get 2TB)
GPU: EVGA GTX 960 (cheapest 960 I saw, seemed decent)
Case: Fractal Design R5 Titanium (very good reviews, willing to spend a bit on the case)
PS: Fractal 550W (I had no idea - same manufacturer as the case)
DVD: Samsung (was only $20, otherwise might have skipped)
Keyboard: Logitech (realized if I sell the Mac Pro, I have to get rid of the Mac keyboard - so this was cheap)
Wound up getting all but two things from Newegg - the cooler was from Amazon, and the Seagate HDD from Memory Express. I decided against buying from a couple of the retailers pcpartspicker suggested on the grounds I'd never, ever heard of them. Besides, while it might list them as the cheapest price, Newegg was only a buck or two more price on almost everything.
In the future, if you ever decide to go SLI with a 2nd video card, be sure to recheck the power requirement, 550w is probably borderline for a 2nd video card.
tell us how it goes once you've taken it out for a spin ;) :D
Quote from: katmai on August 25, 2015, 08:40:00 PM
The majority of my rig except video card are turning 4 this Xmas. Think it is time to upgrade?!?
I don't think so. From everything I have read the improvement isn't worth the upgrade. Better to wait for the AMD Zen chip and the Intel response.
Quote from: katmai on August 25, 2015, 08:40:00 PM
The majority of my rig except video card are turning 4 this Xmas. Think it is time to upgrade?!?
I upgraded my 4-year old computer recently. I am happy with the new computer. There is a noticeable difference. Everything is faster and in my case the computer is a lot more quiet.
Quote from: katmai on August 25, 2015, 08:40:00 PM
The majority of my rig except video card are turning 4 this Xmas. Think it is time to upgrade?!?
It's time to upgrade if you feel your computer is too slow, the graphics aren't nice enough or there's games you'd like to play and you can't because you don't have the requirements for it.
Time is not a good indicator, because it varies from people to people.
So bonus points to Memory Express: one item ordered from them Monday night, delivered on Wednesday. :thumbsup:
Tracking sheet shows it was shipped from Calgary, which likely explains the quick delivery. I'll have to keep that in mind if/when ordering anything else.
Hoping other components start showing up today, though I bet it won't be till next week when everything is present.
Nothing arrived on Thursday. :(
http://www.dell.com/ca/p/alienware-x51-r3/pd?oc=dax51r3_bt_b003e&model_id=alienware-x51-r3
This seems like a really good deal. Is there something I am missing?
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 28, 2015, 03:35:30 PM
http://www.dell.com/ca/p/alienware-x51-r3/pd?oc=dax51r3_bt_b003e&model_id=alienware-x51-r3
This seems like a really good deal. Is there something I am missing?
:hmm:
The videocard. If I was going to spend $2,000 I would want a better videocard. Not that it's a bad card - it is what I ordered. But there are better cards out there.
You could probably save a couple hundred going the "build your own" route, but that's only 10% of your cost. Plus you get a factory warranty.
I had decent luck with Dell desktops back in the day, but then I had an absolutely horrid laptop and went Mac after that. And the laptop might have just been down to Vista.
So it looks like everything was delivered to my house.
Everything except my CPU cooler. :(
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 28, 2015, 03:35:30 PM
http://www.dell.com/ca/p/alienware-x51-r3/pd?oc=dax51r3_bt_b003e&model_id=alienware-x51-r3
This seems like a really good deal. Is there something I am missing?
I used to buy Dell until a few years ago. I have experience with 4 Dell desktops. They all have one thing in common - the CD drive breaks down within 18 months. The CD drive isn't an expensive component, but somehow they always have to skimp on it.
Another drawback of Dells is that they are really noisy.
Quote from: Barrister on August 28, 2015, 04:03:31 PM
So it looks like everything was delivered to my house.
Everything except my CPU cooler. :(
Yup - surrounded by colourful PC parts boxes, but can't do anything without a cooler. :(
Quote from: Barrister on August 28, 2015, 11:54:02 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 28, 2015, 04:03:31 PM
So it looks like everything was delivered to my house.
Everything except my CPU cooler. :(
Yup - surrounded by colourful PC parts boxes, but can't do anything without a cooler. :(
You could start mounting everything and wait for the cooler to arrive to install the CPU. You'll be ready to go by monday night :)
I don't recommend using ice to cool your CPU though ;)
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 28, 2015, 03:35:30 PM
http://www.dell.com/ca/p/alienware-x51-r3/pd?oc=dax51r3_bt_b003e&model_id=alienware-x51-r3
This seems like a really good deal. Is there something I am missing?
like BB said, the video card ain't that good for the price you pay.
The power supply is intriguing... are they running these kits with 2 power supply, one 240w and one 330w?
If so, it seems allright. If I misread, and it's an option to upgrade from 240w to 330w, than it's way too low.
Just hit me like a thunderbolt - I'm not only missing a CPU cooler.
For some reason my power supply was shipped separately from Newegg, and hasn't arrived yet either.
That makes me feel better somehow.
The case is pretty cool though :)
But it seems a tad overpriced to me.
I've changed a few things in your previous build:
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/user/Viper371/saved/#view=MdYCmG (https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/user/Viper371/saved/#view=MdYCmG)
2186$, you get a killer video card and a monitor.
A few things noteworthy with my custom build:
-The power supply is too low for SLI / Crossfire. If you ever intend to put a 2nd or a 3rd video card in there, we need to increase the size of the power supply. Same deal with Alienware, might even be too low for the higher end cards.
-Windows license is optional, if you already have a Windows 7/8.1 license you can install this and upgrade your computer to Win10.
I saw on Alienware's site some 34" curved 4k monitor... :wub: now, that's something to dream of :P
However, as BB pointed, you do have on-site service for 1 year in case there's a problem. That might be worth considering, given you live in a city where it's possible :)
Viper that looks great. Two things though. You need to add a motherboard. Second ncix still doesn't have any skylake chips in stock. How hard would it be for me to build this myself?
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 29, 2015, 12:01:08 PM
Viper that looks great. Two things though. You need to add a motherboard. Second ncix still doesn't have any skylake chips in stock. How hard would it be for me to build this myself?
I have 100% confirmed that NCIX has Skylake chips. My Skylake i5 is sitting on my desk after arriving from NCIX.
duh!
I changed the CPU and had to delete the mb, forgot to add another one. Fixed now. There aren't a ton of choices on pcpartpicker and most of them don't have a price.
For NCIX stock, if you are not in a rush, just wait a couple more months, they will have some in stock. Or buy a last gen CPU, the differences aren't that big.
QuoteHow hard would it be for me to build this myself?
If you need to ask, don't do it :P
Well, see, it's all with the hands. If you have big hands like mine, most cases will be too tights for you, and I'm naturally clumsy for everything manual, so I usually have a computer store mount it for me. I change the minor parts, like a video card or a hard drive, but rely on them for the rest.
The hardest part is the motherboard and the CPU, imho. You will need cooling past, to apply on the CPU, if it does not come with stock cooler (Skylake CPUs don't, apparently) or if you want something quieter. Arctic Silver thermal past is what I recommend. Check Youtube, there are guides for this. A non stock cooler can be tricky to install too, depending on wich cooler, which CPU, which case, etc. Mine is really big and the computer shop had problems making it fit inside my case.
For the motherboard, it can be sometimes tricky. I remember mounting one myself and having lots of intermittent problems. It turns out I had slightly misplaced a screw on the motherboard and it wasp preventing it too boot, but just sometimes. Of course, thrashing the case and destroying the hard drive did not help, but ah, I still got a replacement hard drive on warranty anyway :D
Once that is done, it's fairly easy. There are labels on the board for where every cable goes and the manuals are usually pretty good, even in Chinese you can understand where it goes :P
The hard drives are simply a matter of screws (if you're lucky, you will have some racks to mount your hard drives in, and then you only need to slide them into the case).
The video card is a simple matter, the power supply may require some work, but more time than difficulty.
Quote from: Barrister on August 29, 2015, 11:29:02 PM
I have 100% confirmed that NCIX has Skylake chips. My Skylake i5 is sitting on my desk after arriving from NCIX.
it might simply be the site, pcpartpicker that doesn't list it yet. I'm guessing these price comparison sites do require some manual work on top of the automatic updating.
Quote from: viper37 on August 29, 2015, 11:38:14 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 29, 2015, 11:29:02 PM
I have 100% confirmed that NCIX has Skylake chips. My Skylake i5 is sitting on my desk after arriving from NCIX.
it might simply be the site, pcpartpicker that doesn't list it yet. I'm guessing these price comparison sites do require some manual work on top of the automatic updating.
Wait. Wrong. My i5 came from Newegg.
Thanks Viper I am in no rush so I will wait for their stock to come in.
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 29, 2015, 12:01:08 PM
Viper that looks great. Two things though. You need to add a motherboard. Second ncix still doesn't have any skylake chips in stock. How hard would it be for me to build this myself?
By the way CC, if you wait a week or two I'll give you a good idea what it's like for someone who is moderately computer literate, but who has never built they own machine, to try it.
I look forward to your AAR
First step: Unboxing the case.
First impression is that it's big. Very big. It's about the same height as my Mac Pro (itself not a small computer), but is even wider. And freaking heavy.
I start digging into the case though and start seeing why. It's very sturdily build, with some good, stiff soundproofing on the walls. Tons of space of course to put everything, so the build itself should go easily.
I still don't have a cooler or PSU so there's not much I can do, but I had bought an extra case fan so I decide to put that in. I had even bought a Fractal Design fan so it would match the existing case fans, and that it would make the install that much easier, but... no luck. It needs longer screws than what they supplied. :rolleyes: Aw well, off to the hardware store I guess.
The case manual is... odd. They make a big deal about how the case was designed in Sweden and follows "Scandinavian design". Umm, it's just a big black box. But I think they took their Scandinavian design philosophy a bit too far when they apparently took their instruction book's inspiration from IKEA instructions. It's all multilingual with pictograms to show what's happening. Unfortunately, building a computer is just a bit more complicated than putting together a Billy book case. :lol:
I build my own computer after advise from viper som years ago and was surprised at how easy it was. Of course I didn't install extra fans. The only worry I had was the chip and the cpu cooler (but that was mostly because of counter intuitive design on the cooler).
I'm sure you'll be fine. But with that said I also look forward to the AAR.
Quote from: Liep on August 31, 2015, 11:48:27 AM
I build my own computer after advise from viper som years ago and was surprised at how easy it was. Of course I didn't install extra fans. The only worry I had was the chip and the cpu cooler (but that was mostly because of counter intuitive design on the cooler).
I'm sure you'll be fine. But with that said I also look forward to the AAR.
Installing an extra fan (if you have the right size screws) is dead easy - you just screw it in and plug it into the appropriate slot on the motherboard.
I broke the computer when I tried to install a new video card. Couldn't even get the old card out :lol:
The hardware store did not have the right size crews. :grr: I will go to the computer store (Memory Express) and see what they might have tomorrow.
The Power Supply was delivered today - except Mrs B had taken the boys to her parents, so it wasn't, and now I have to go pick it up from the Purolator distribution centre. No huge loss since the CPU cooler is still awaiting delivery. ETA on the shipping email (which are always very, very conservative) was September 10th. :bleeding:
Based on the early setbacks in this campaign I think I will get mine assembled by others. It will likely be quicker.
I'll assemble it free of charge. That's true for all Languishite computers.
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 01, 2015, 09:48:50 AM
Based on the early setbacks in this campaign I think I will get mine assembled by others. It will likely be quicker.
Meh. I'm assembling my computer because I want to do it - the challenge of it sounds like fun to me. :)
If you don't feel the same I think it would definitely be worth it to pay some shop to build for your (or buy a pre-made system).
But really, the only obstacles so far has been waiting for parts to arrive.
So the power supply was delivered yesterday, but no one was home. Picked up today.
Now I'm back to waiting on the CPU cooler. :grr:
Realized the problem with the extra case fan. It does in fact need longer screws than are usual. But I forgot to check the screws that came with the case itself. Sure enough - 4 extra-long fan screws. :cool:
So until my CPU cooler arrives, you can satisfy yourself by looking at my collection of really expensive computer part boxes.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/587/20887418260_67b1e8594e_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/xPKtK3)New computer boxes (https://flic.kr/p/xPKtK3) by Barrister (https://www.flickr.com/photos/135965744@N04/), on Flickr
Oh, cable management solution!
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 02, 2015, 05:50:29 AM
Oh, cable management solution!
:)
Anyways, CC, Intel announced the rest of their desktop lineup the other day. All should be out by the end of the year.
It is really just the i7s I am waiting to arrive. NCIX is filling orders slowly for the people who preordered just the CPU. It will likely be a few more weeks before they are actually "in stock". I can wait till then. I have a bunch of work and a conference in the next few weeks so I even if I had the computer today I wouldn't really have a chance to turn it on.
Quote from: Barrister on September 01, 2015, 10:19:16 PM
So the power supply was delivered yesterday, but no one was home. Picked up today.
Now I'm back to waiting on the CPU cooler. :grr:
Realized the problem with the extra case fan. It does in fact need longer screws than are usual. But I forgot to check the screws that came with the case itself. Sure enough - 4 extra-long fan screws. :cool:
So until my CPU cooler arrives, you can satisfy yourself by looking at my collection of really expensive computer part boxes.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/587/20887418260_67b1e8594e_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/xPKtK3)New computer boxes (https://flic.kr/p/xPKtK3) by Barrister (https://www.flickr.com/photos/135965744@N04/), on Flickr
Nice. The Fractal Design cases are rather heavy. My Fractal Design XL is close to 25 kgs with all the stuff inside. But they're very stylish.
Quote from: Norgy on September 02, 2015, 01:56:50 PM
Nice. The Fractal Design cases are rather heavy. My Fractal Design XL is close to 25 kgs with all the stuff inside. But they're very stylish.
Man - the R5 case seems huge to me. I can't imagine using the XL.
But it is very solid and pretty in its own way too.
Hey since you have one - what did you do for case fans? I had read somewhere that the 2 stock fans weren't quite sufficient, which explains the two fan boxes in the lower right.
I changed them.
The Noctua fans (they're Austrian, don't know if they sell them in NA?) are very quiet and push a lot of air.
I went for a closed-loop cooler for the CPU, so I have used the space in the ceiling of the case for the radiator. Do you have fans in the floor of the case on the R5? I did not change those, and they work well.
What struck me as very good with the Fractal Design case is the solid build quality and the ease of use when building. It doesn't have the hot-swap bays and stuff like my old CM case, but it's probably the better case.
Quote from: Norgy on September 02, 2015, 02:40:00 PM
I changed them.
The Noctua fans (they're Austrian, don't know if they sell them in NA?) are very quiet and push a lot of air.
I went for a closed-loop cooler for the CPU, so I have used the space in the ceiling of the case for the radiator. Do you have fans in the floor of the case on the R5? I did not change those, and they work well.
What struck me as very good with the Fractal Design case is the solid build quality and the ease of use when building. It doesn't have the hot-swap bays and stuff like my old CM case, but it's probably the better case.
R5 had one case in the front, one in the rear. It had space for a 2nd front fan, room for 4 bottom-mounted fans, two or three top mounted fans if you open up the removable covers, and a side vent as well. I've loaded mine up with 2 front, 1 bottom (all intake), and the one rear exhaust.
Pretty sure Noctua sells in NAm.
I'd go for one intake fan in the side vent at least. Helps quite a lot for the GPU cooling.
Noctua fans are very good for mounting with just the rubber mounting thingies. They are silent, even at high RPM.
I'd consider, if I were you, utilising the top slots as exhaust should things ever run hot.
Given that you won't overclock, the setup you have is probably frosty enough, though.
Quote from: Norgy on September 02, 2015, 05:23:48 PM
I'd go for one intake fan in the side vent at least. Helps quite a lot for the GPU cooling.
Noctua fans are very good for mounting with just the rubber mounting thingies. They are silent, even at high RPM.
I'd consider, if I were you, utilising the top slots as exhaust should things ever run hot.
Given that you won't overclock, the setup you have is probably frosty enough, though.
We'll see how it all shakes out. What gives me pause about the side port is that there is no dust shield.
My GPU is significantly less aggressive than yours, so I think I'll be fine. I'll check out the temps once everything is installed however. I'm not opposed to changing things up or modifying the setup once it's live.
So I finished up everything I could do up to this point. Installed the fans, installed the PSU, and the MB supports. Now I'm waiting for the CPU cooler. <_<
Since I wound up with a "K" processor I'm tempted to try a very modest overclock just because I can. Don't think trying to take it to the limit is worth it however.
The newer CPUs can be modestly overclocked from Windows by a fair many different utilities. Your motherboard probably came with the software needed.
Modern GPUs won't overheat and die. They will just run down the clock speeds and the fans will go apeshit. But noise levels haven't been problematic even with SLI setup for me, at least.
Looking forward to reading more about your building experience, Beeb. :)
Quote from: Barrister on September 02, 2015, 11:57:12 PM
Since I wound up with a "K" processor I'm tempted to try a very modest overclock just because I can. Don't think trying to take it to the limit is worth it however.
Asus as an utility for that, don't know about Gigabyte. Their basic boards sure do not, it could be different for their gaming boards.
Otherwise, AMD has a utility for that in their drivers... Oh, wrong card :P Nvidia certainly has the same tool, for CPU&GPU.
You can use http://gaming.msi.com/features/afterburner]MSI After burner (http://gaming.msi.com/features/afterburner), it's a great tool to, very easy to use.
If you overclock, your computer will reboot and reset it's clock speed to default.
If you want to do it the enthusiast way, you toy with voltage&clock speed, do some tests, increase again, run some more tests, etc, etc.
If you want to do it the simple way, increase your clock speed by 5-10%, see how it works in game, if it's unstable, reduce clock speed a few mhz.
The Asus utility is not great, to be honest.
It's better to do some tweaking in BIOS than using it. But I'd worry about the cooler then.
Quote from: Norgy on September 03, 2015, 12:40:54 PM
The Asus utility is not great, to be honest.
I did like it. There's AI Suite, and there was another one, TurboV Evo. Don't know if it exists anymore, I'm mostly using MSI&AMD tools anyway.
Quote
It's better to do some tweaking in BIOS than using it. But I'd worry about the cooler then.
can't vouch for all boards, but mine will reset itself if I overclock it too much. My main problem is the voltage regulation. I'm scare to play with that. I'd have to read a lot more about overclocking.
Also, most of the time, DRAM will prevent your from overclocking too much, it often has a much lower tolerance than a CPU.
Quote from: viper37 on September 03, 2015, 01:50:00 PM
Quote from: Norgy on September 03, 2015, 12:40:54 PM
The Asus utility is not great, to be honest.
I did like it. There's AI Suite, and there was another one, TurboV Evo. Don't know if it exists anymore, I'm mostly using MSI&AMD tools anyway.
Quote
It's better to do some tweaking in BIOS than using it. But I'd worry about the cooler then.
can't vouch for all boards, but mine will reset itself if I overclock it too much. My main problem is the voltage regulation. I'm scare to play with that. I'd have to read a lot more about overclocking.
Also, most of the time, DRAM will prevent your from overclocking too much, it often has a much lower tolerance than a CPU.
The bit I've read on overclocking says you definitely have to start playing with voltage.
Ai Suite lets me overclock to 4.2 Ghz. It's kind of "safe" overclocking, as it runs stress tests first and decides how much you can clock your CPU based on that.
I wouldn't say it offers that much on performance for gaming, and I think I got a bad 4770k processor as it runs very hot very quickly.
My old 2600k easily ran at 4.8 Ghz.
Quote from: Barrister on September 03, 2015, 01:51:28 PM
The bit I've read on overclocking says you definitely have to start playing with voltage.
Only if you want to dramatically increase the speed of your components. Something between 5-10%, depending on your compononents, it could be achievable without playing with voltage. AMD cpus have better overclock capabilities than Intel, but they're much slower. I can overclock my CPU and GPU by around 5%, and my memory too, but then I have some problems, sometimes. It's like my GPU shuts itself down more frequently but won't come back on unless I unplug and replug the monitor. Can't find the cause exactly.
Anyway. Beyond that, you will likely need better cooler, possibly liquid ones. You have to take note of base value, idle and under load, what's the temp&the voltage, then start overclocking and compare values.
Well at least the tracking # for my CPU cooler is working now. It's sitting clearing Canadian customs. <_<
Quote from: Barrister on September 02, 2015, 04:21:24 PM
Quote from: Norgy on September 02, 2015, 02:40:00 PM
I changed them.
The Noctua fans (they're Austrian, don't know if they sell them in NA?) are very quiet and push a lot of air.
I went for a closed-loop cooler for the CPU, so I have used the space in the ceiling of the case for the radiator. Do you have fans in the floor of the case on the R5? I did not change those, and they work well.
What struck me as very good with the Fractal Design case is the solid build quality and the ease of use when building. It doesn't have the hot-swap bays and stuff like my old CM case, but it's probably the better case.
R5 had one case in the front, one in the rear. It had space for a 2nd front fan, room for 4 bottom-mounted fans, two or three top mounted fans if you open up the removable covers, and a side vent as well. I've loaded mine up with 2 front, 1 bottom (all intake), and the one rear exhaust.
Pretty sure Noctua sells in NAm.
The first time I built I was wildly confused by intake/exhaust and ended up with something resembling a Finnish sauna. :blush:
Hey Viper or anyone else:
Since I'm relying on my Win 7 Key, once I get my new system started do I need to install Win 7, then upgrade to Win 10, or is there a way to directly install Win 10?
It is easier to install Win 7 first then update.
Quote from: Barrister on September 06, 2015, 12:29:18 AM
Hey Viper or anyone else:
Since I'm relying on my Win 7 Key, once I get my new system started do I need to install Win 7, then upgrade to Win 10, or is there a way to directly install Win 10?
There's not other way to install Win10 the first time. Once you have done the upgrade though, for this computer, if you ever need to reinstall Windows, you will be able to install Windows 10 only. For another computer, I don't know...
You can download Win 10 from Microsoft's website and put it on a USB stick, Beeb.
I have Win 7 Ultimate and still haven't gotten my free upgrade. <_<
Quote from: Norgy on September 06, 2015, 02:17:01 PM
You can download Win 10 from Microsoft's website and put it on a USB stick, Beeb.
I have Win 7 Ultimate and still haven't gotten my free upgrade. <_<
But you still need to install Windows 7 first so it will offer you a Win10 upgrade. Then, even if it says it's not ready to install, you can use the ISO. Not before.
Quote from: Norgy on September 06, 2015, 02:17:01 PM
I have Win 7 Ultimate and still haven't gotten my free upgrade. <_<
Have you tried this?
Quote from: Grey Fox on August 01, 2015, 08:36:09 PM
Quote from: Liep on July 31, 2015, 01:09:09 PM
Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on July 31, 2015, 12:47:58 PM
Quote from: Grey Fox on July 31, 2015, 10:42:08 AM
:hmm:
You are on your own, my copy still hasn't showed up.
Yeah that's weird. My wife's copy hasn't showed up either. The little program still just says "Thanks For Reserving Your Copy!" or whatever. Or at least it did this morning before I left.
Have you checked your Windows Update? Mine showed an upgrade failure so I had to do this to restart it:
Quote1. Go into "C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution\Download" and delete everything in that folder. (If you're unable to complete this step, look at "edit 5" down below)
2. Now, run the command prompt as an administrator. Type in "wuauclt.exe /updatenow".
3. Go to your Control Panel > Windows Update and your Windows 10 should start re-downloading from scratch, hopefully without flaws this time.
Worked perfectly after this.
Yep that was my issue.
I am all upgraded now.
Quote from: Norgy on September 06, 2015, 02:17:01 PM
I have Win 7 Ultimate and still haven't gotten my free upgrade. <_<
Liep's trick is for when you do not have a notification to upgrade your OS. If you do have the notification but they simply tell you to wait, you can proceed with an ISO.
Quote from: viper37 on September 06, 2015, 05:10:15 PM
Quote from: Norgy on September 06, 2015, 02:17:01 PM
I have Win 7 Ultimate and still haven't gotten my free upgrade. <_<
Liep's trick is for when you do not have a notification to upgrade your OS. If you do have the notification but they simply tell you to wait, you can proceed with an ISO.
No, it covers the eternal "we'll notify you when your upgrade is available," too. I did it two weeks ago on my laptop and have been using Windows 10 on there since without much issue.
I could get a Norwegian language upgrade, but I want my Windows to be in English, dammit.
You have Win 7 ultimate, wich lets you change languages at will. You can upgrade to Windows 10 Pro, wich will let you change language at will.
You install Windows 10 Norvegian, then download the english language pack and activate it.
Quote from: viper37 on September 07, 2015, 07:35:48 PM
You have Win 7 ultimate, wich lets you change languages at will. You can upgrade to Windows 10 Pro, wich will let you change language at will.
You install Windows 10 Norvegian, then download the english language pack and activate it.
Okay, I tried the upgrade thingie from MS' website.
I can install Win 10 and lose all my files and settings. Not happening, pal.
No update, just a fresh install?
Quote from: Norgy on September 08, 2015, 05:00:23 AM
Okay, I tried the upgrade thingie from MS' website.
I can install Win 10 and lose all my files and settings. Not happening, pal.
well, ok, good to know :) I thought others here (Caliga?) had upgraded with the ISO, I guess I was wrong :)
EDIT: yep, it was Caliga who said he forced installed it. There's go to be a way for do an upgrade.
BB has been quiet, has he electrocuted himself?
Quote from: Liep on September 08, 2015, 02:23:01 PM
BB has been quiet, has he electrocuted himself?
Still stuck in a holding pattern - no CPU cooler. <_<
I think this is the last time I wind up buying something from an Amazon "partner" (I had issues before). Everything else arrived a week ago. at least. They gave me an estimated received by date of "August 27 to September 10th" so I can't even officially complain yet.
Make it more simple than that :)
In the future, if you need to order parts from multiple suppliers, don't order from US based retailers.
Quote from: viper37 on September 08, 2015, 03:06:42 PM
Make it more simple than that :)
In the future, if you need to order parts from multiple suppliers, don't order from US based retailers.
I was going off of amazon.ca, didn't realize it was a US-based seller.
Buy one at a different store & then use the still to arrive to return the unopened amazon product.
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 08, 2015, 06:20:22 PM
Buy one at a different store & then use the still to arrive to return the unopened amazon product.
Don't need to - it's here! :cool:
:cool:
Take pictures of the build.
So here's the box. It looks... well travelled...
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/775/20642039253_d11e56f558_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/xs4R7v)
So much waiting for such an unexciting part:
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5662/20642045303_161130f741_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/xs4SUP)
Here's the motherboard:
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5784/20642048393_e09a66584d_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/xs4TQ6)
Well fuck - now no more pics are showing up when I try to download them. Maybe I'll try tomorrow.
Anyways, I got the CPU, RAM and cooler installed, test boot worked out okay, now the motherboard has been installed in the case.
More tomorrow night.
So "Ultra Durable" has been trademarked now? :mad:
At least it's not TUF (tm), Asus' supposedly military grade hardware.
Do have more pics, but tired and going to bed.
Tonight managed to get CPU cooler fan installed, then all the drives. Then came caballing. I started with what seemed like a morass of funny-looking wires, but managed to get all the case fans, and the SATA fans, connected and looking pretty. Also installed the basic MB power cables.
Still to do: SATA power connectors, and still need to install and power up GPU.
I'm about 5 hours in to this build. Would definitely go faster if I knew what I was doing, but digging through manuals you can find pretty much everything.
It would also go faster if I didn't have to pack up every last thing when I'm done so small children don't get their hands on something they shouldn't. <_<
Gigabyte? :bleeding: Oh well, at least it's not Biostar. Still, hope you've got some cash squirreled away in case that board fails in 6 months.
My Gigabyte board is still going strong on its 29th month.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on September 10, 2015, 09:01:30 AM
Gigabyte? :bleeding: Oh well, at least it's not Biostar. Still, hope you've got some cash squirreled away in case that board fails in 6 months.
I've heard no particular complaints about Gigabyte's reliability. :huh:
Quote from: DontSayBanana on September 10, 2015, 09:01:30 AM
Gigabyte? :bleeding: Oh well, at least it's not Biostar. Still, hope you've got some cash squirreled away in case that board fails in 6 months.
they seem ok for their cheaper, non gaming board. Don't know how they fare with higher ends and more demanding setups, but they seem to get good reviews online.
Quote from: viper37 on September 10, 2015, 09:52:47 AM
they seem ok for their cheaper, non gaming board. Don't know how they fare with higher ends and more demanding setups, but they seem to get good reviews online.
I've had to RMA a fair few Gigabyte boards. ASUS has been the most reliable for me without any major issues, MSI I've been okay with (sounds like I've been lucky, though), had to RMA a few Gigabyte boards (including one or two RMA replacements), and have had absolutely no luck with Biostar (every single Biostar board I've ever used has failed in spectacular fashion).
My Gigabyte MB is still going after...hmm...over 4 years now.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.sodahead.com%2Fpolls%2F002192839%2F135514547_young_frankenstein1_xlarge.png&hash=93fcfa09c10475562dc280812b1563762f47521b)
It's alive!
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/651/21125050300_8468a10541_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ybKptb)
Finished installing all components. Fired up on the first try (man I was nervous the first time I hit the power button).
I have managed to install Win 7 on the harddrive, but still need to install all the drivers (including network connection).
So far, so good...
Impressive :showoff:
Looking good! :thumbsup:
You are good at cable management, BB.
Job well done, sir.
BB :worthy:
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 01, 2015, 09:48:50 AM
Based on the early setbacks in this campaign I think I will get mine assembled by others. It will likely be quicker.
So, CC...
It is definitely quicker to get a machine built for you. I'm sure I could have assembled this in half the time if I had experience in doing so. There was a lot of time staring at a cable, trying to figure out what it was and what I needed it for. Plus a few hours watching youtube videos to understand what I should be doing.
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 11, 2015, 07:04:35 AM
You are good at cable management, BB.
Job well done, sir.
This. Most first-time builders don't think to route cables behind the motherboard panel. Looks good!
Looks like Viper's estimate is about right, it is probably going to be sometime in November before I can get a i7 6700 computer built for me.
Quote from: DontSayBanana on September 12, 2015, 08:48:14 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 11, 2015, 07:04:35 AM
You are good at cable management, BB.
Job well done, sir.
This. Most first-time builders don't think to route cables behind the motherboard panel. Looks good!
:huh:
Now, I had no idea what I was doing, but I can say that I put all the cables behind the motherboard for two reasons:
1. Having no idea what I was doing, I watched a bunch of youtube "how to build a PC" videos. And in every single one they emphasized putting cables behind the motherboard so as to improve airflow.
2. The Define R5 case itself not only had a whole bunch locations on the rear to tie down cables and included several handy velcro straps to do the same, but already had all the case cables located on the rear of the computer case itself.
UNfortunately the build (well install really at this point) had been on hold due to a trip to Calgary this last weekend for my mom's 65th birthday. I may not get to it tonight either due to needing to study for an interview tomorrow.
Oooh, that looks clean and neat. :)
Should have bought a Mac.
Quote from: katmai on September 15, 2015, 12:39:55 AM
Should have bought a Mac.
Would have worked right out of the box, this is true.
Craploads of software to install on this. But it's starting to come together - this is being typed on the new system. :cool:
Quote from: Barrister on September 15, 2015, 10:49:29 PM
Quote from: katmai on September 15, 2015, 12:39:55 AM
Should have bought a Mac.
Would have worked right out of the box, this is true.
Craploads of software to install on this. But it's starting to come together - this is being typed on the new system. :cool:
This site will not work if you have a SSD and install your apps on the D: (hard drive), but otherwise, it can be useful:
https://ninite.com/ (https://ninite.com/)
It installs all software in one click, but only on the C drive and there's no option to change it.
Quote from: katmai on September 15, 2015, 12:39:55 AM
Should have bought a Mac.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmac.demotivationalposters.net%2Fimage%2Fdemotivational-poster%2F1002%2Fsimplicity-mac-vs-pc-explanation-thewiceman-demotivational-poster-1265145539.png&hash=d06890229d82975bd1683b8ba9e173f3bdccfe85)
Okay, so now I hit a problem - Viper any ideas?
I went to install USB 3.0 drivers. It started working, but then it asked me to click "next". Problem was my mouse and keyboard stopped working (presumably I'd borked my USB driver, which of course both the keyboard and mouse run on).
So I restarted, and restarted again. Keyboard and mouse are unresponsive.
Now what do I do?
Keyboard and mouse work fine in BIOS, but stop working in Windows. Booting into Safe Mode does not help.
:grr:
I'm still early enough along I can just nuke it from orbit (aka re-install Windows) but I'd hate to have to do that...
All ports?
See if "Enable legacy USB devices" is enabled in your BIOS settings. If you went with a cheap keyboard/mouse or used an old one you have laying around, it's very possible that they're USB 1.0/1.1 and need that setting to be enabled to be recognized by the OS.
if nothing works, either buy a newer keyboard and mouse combo, or find older PS/2 hardware to unstuck you from such situation.
GF: I tried two different ports and neither worked.
DSB: the keyboard/mouse were working fine until I tried to install new USB drivers. I am using the old Mac Pro keyboard, though I do have a cheapo Logitech that I purchased since I'm going to try and sell the Mac.
Viper, I'd kind of prefer to not go out and spend more $$. I don't have an old PS/2 keyboard or mouse hanging around.
Quote from: Barrister on September 16, 2015, 09:35:40 AM
Viper, I'd kind of prefer to not go out and spend more $$. I don't have an old PS/2 keyboard or mouse hanging around.
Well, maybe there's someone you know near you that has one? Or another mouse for another computer?
You could try booting without the mouse & kb attached, replug them and see if Windows will detect them.
btw, what is the brand&model of your keyboard&mouse? Is it wireless? If so, did you change/recharge the batteries?
If you want a cheap kb&mouse combo for 18$, certified to work on Win10:
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX30139 (http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX30139)
Quote from: Barrister on September 16, 2015, 09:35:40 AM
though I do have a cheapo Logitech that I purchased since I'm going to try and sell the Mac.
Did you try this one?
Quote from: viper37 on September 16, 2015, 10:04:43 AM
btw, what is the brand&model of your keyboard&mouse? Is it wireless? If so, did you change/recharge the batteries?
If you want a cheap kb&mouse combo for 18$, certified to work on Win10:
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX30139 (http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX30139)
As mentioned, it's an Apple keyboard, together with a Logitech mouse. Both wired.
It's not a keyboard problem though - it's definitely a USB driver issue since:
A: they stopped working after I started installing USB 3.0 drivers (the install asked me to click "Next", but mouse stopped working)
B: both work fine in BIOS (and when connected to the Mac), and only stop working once Windows boots up.
This is quite a pickle, Beeb.
It happened to me as well.
If Windows boots, uninstall the USB 3.0 drivers. If you can.
And do as DSB says, enable legacy USB drivers in BIOS.
Picked up a PS2 to USB adaptor. See if it works
I have decided that I will never build my own computer after reading this. This is too tough for me :lol:
Quote from: Barrister on September 16, 2015, 08:33:08 PM
Picked up a PS2 to USB adaptor. See if it works
It did not. There's $7 down the drain.
Reinstalling Windows now.
And back on the re-installed Win 7. Managed to get my USB 3.0 ports working too, which was what sent everything upside-down last night.
You are a better man then me. I would not have the patience.
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 16, 2015, 11:05:09 PM
You are a better man then me. I would not have the patience.
Meh - it's been a fun project to work on. :) Nice feeling of satisfaction when things get working.
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 16, 2015, 11:05:09 PM
You are a better man then me. I would not have the patience.
and yet you have a patience to write briefs?
Do I?
You don't?!
Does he?
The suspense is absolutely killing me now.
:zipped:
Bah - now I'm in the last, and most boring stage - trying to copy over all the data from the old computer. Which means, unfortunately, having to copy info over from both the Mac and PC installs. <_<
I have to admit though - I never realized the old computer was so slow till I had the new computer installed on the SSD.
you're doing it over the network or with USB drives/pen drives? :)
Since my computer is dead how would I get data transferred? Just instal my old hard drive as an extra drive?
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 19, 2015, 07:55:18 AM
Since my computer is dead how would I get data transferred? Just instal my old hard drive as an extra drive?
Unless the HD is fried that should work. There's also kits so you can set up an internal HD as external HD if you don't want to add it permanently to your new machine, but don't want to get rid of it, either.
Quote from: viper37 on September 19, 2015, 02:40:32 AM
you're doing it over the network or with USB drives/pen drives? :)
Last night was spent copying pictures over. Put them on a portable HDD that we have for just this purpose.
Music and other files will go on a USB drive.
Quote from: Syt on September 19, 2015, 07:57:23 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 19, 2015, 07:55:18 AM
Since my computer is dead how would I get data transferred? Just instal my old hard drive as an extra drive?
Unless the HD is fried that should work. There's also kits so you can set up an internal HD as external HD if you don't want to add it permanently to your new machine, but don't want to get rid of it, either.
This. A decent USB enclosure is worth its weight in gold for data recovery.
Quote from: Syt on September 19, 2015, 07:57:23 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 19, 2015, 07:55:18 AM
Since my computer is dead how would I get data transferred? Just instal my old hard drive as an extra drive?
Unless the HD is fried that should work. There's also kits so you can set up an internal HD as external HD if you don't want to add it permanently to your new machine, but don't want to get rid of it, either.
Yeah when I migrated from a rather old computer, I bought an enclosure thingy to use my original main drive as an external. Worked great.
Thanks for the tips
Still copying files over from the old Mac Pro.
I gotta say that USB 3.0 is definitely proving itself. The time spent copying from the old is massive compared to copying over to the new computer with USB 3.0.
This however is the one downside to moving full time to Windows: having to live with iTunes on Windows. :x (it's not completely terrible on OS X)
Quote from: Barrister on September 20, 2015, 12:53:21 AM
This however is the one downside to moving full time to Windows: having to live with iTunes on Windows. :x (it's not completely terrible on OS X)
Should have bought a mac
Gah! I'm hitting an infuriating problem with Steam. I go to install, it doesn't recognize my password. Thinking perhaps I am mis-remembering it (Steam rarely asks you to type your password) I go to change the password, which goes ahead. But then it fails to recognize the new password.
I've hit change password two or three times over the last couple days (there's a lengthy lock-out) and every time the new password doesn't get recognized when I go to log in.
:grr:
Any ideas out there?
Quote from: crazy canuck on September 19, 2015, 07:55:18 AM
Since my computer is dead how would I get data transferred? Just instal my old hard drive as an extra drive?
yes, just plug it in.
Quote from: Barrister on September 20, 2015, 09:24:19 AM
Gah! I'm hitting an infuriating problem with Steam. I go to install, it doesn't recognize my password. Thinking perhaps I am mis-remembering it (Steam rarely asks you to type your password) I go to change the password, which goes ahead. But then it fails to recognize the new password.
I've hit change password two or three times over the last couple days (there's a lengthy lock-out) and every time the new password doesn't get recognized when I go to log in.
:grr:
Any ideas out there?
try to log in the Steam website before the application. It might send you a code by e-mail to type. Once, it's done, retry the Steam application.
Quote from: viper37 on September 20, 2015, 09:40:38 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 20, 2015, 09:24:19 AM
Gah! I'm hitting an infuriating problem with Steam. I go to install, it doesn't recognize my password. Thinking perhaps I am mis-remembering it (Steam rarely asks you to type your password) I go to change the password, which goes ahead. But then it fails to recognize the new password.
I've hit change password two or three times over the last couple days (there's a lengthy lock-out) and every time the new password doesn't get recognized when I go to log in.
:grr:
Any ideas out there?
try to log in the Steam website before the application. It might send you a code by e-mail to type. Once, it's done, retry the Steam application.
Yeah I've tried that. It does send me the code, which I enter. I type in a new password which is accepted.
Then it doesn't recognize the new password.
:grr:
Going to have to try and escalate this - I'm not like some of you with hundreds of Steam games, but some of my most popular are from Steam.
On the other hand, yesterday I finally had the Windows 10 invite pop up, so I'm going to install that shortly as well.
I think Steam uses a different password for the forums and the for the site&app. So you could try looking at the support forum here:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=5cb8a4eae38b2441a362572a9b22f8f0&f=17 (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=5cb8a4eae38b2441a362572a9b22f8f0&f=17)
Or their support site:
https://support.steampowered.com/ (https://support.steampowered.com/)
And I don't have an 100 games in Steam, closer to 20, but I too like most of them :)
I have more then 100 games and I am not a shamed of it.
Quote from: Grey Fox on September 21, 2015, 01:20:09 PM
I have more then 100 games and I am not a shamed of it.
I have 136, of which played maybe 25 of :P
This just never ends!
Okay with Steam, I'm pursuing the "retrieve lost account" procedure. See if that works.
Installed Win 10. Procedure went brilliantly - until Win 10 started up. Now, "No Network Connection". Which of course is odd since I DOWNLOADED THIS POS OVER THE NETWORK!
So I hook up the Mac Pro again, and am downloading the Win 10 Network drivers for the motherboard. I *think* that might be it.
But I've gone from Leopard -> Snow Leopard -> Lion -> Mountain Lion -> Mavericks -> El Capitan, and never had the slightest problem before. <_<
:zipped:
Yes, installing new Win 10 network drivers got me back on the net. <_<
Next time, download all your needed drivers first, then upgrade to Windows. if you need to install them, they'll be on your hDD.
Quote from: Barrister on September 21, 2015, 10:31:48 PM
This just never ends!
Okay with Steam, I'm pursuing the "retrieve lost account" procedure. See if that works.
Installed Win 10. Procedure went brilliantly - until Win 10 started up. Now, "No Network Connection". Which of course is odd since I DOWNLOADED THIS POS OVER THE NETWORK!
So I hook up the Mac Pro again, and am downloading the Win 10 Network drivers for the motherboard. I *think* that might be it.
But I've gone from Leopard -> Snow Leopard -> Lion -> Mountain Lion -> Mavericks -> El Capitan, and never had the slightest problem before. <_<
Yes, Steve Jobs' company offer a better customer experience. It comes at the expense of customization freedom & an higher price.
Okay, so Steam has manually changed my password. I'll try it tonight and we'll see if that works.
Once I have Steam, I'll install a few games, and then I think this build should be finished!
Next step: trying to clean up the Mac Pro, do a fresh install / wipe the hard drive, and try to sell it. <_<
I use this tool on PC:
https://www.piriform.com/ccleaner-mac
Quote from: viper37 on September 22, 2015, 06:30:35 PM
I use this tool on PC:
https://www.piriform.com/ccleaner-mac
Thanks, but I want to do a complete hard drive wipe / re-install.
So I get Steam working :yeah:
But as I start digging around, I realize my copy of Windows is not activated. Probably because I'm using a copy that was previously registered to a completely different computer. Sigh - another trip to customer support...
Well that was an interesting experience.
I start googling around about "windows 10 won't activate". I found more than a few links of...dubious legality.
But then I find out how to remotely chat with MS support. So I do so. I start chatting with Eunice from MS. She wound up remote logging into my computer. They said it looked like I had done everything right, so she advanced it on to level 2 support. They wound up giving me a brand new Win 10 product key.
It took 20-30 minutes. Quite frankly the experience was better than dealing with IT tech support with GOA (Government of Alberta). And all for a product I hadn't paid anything for in at least 5 years.
So while :thumbsdown: that I had to do so at all, :thumbsup: that it was quite painless when I did.
Quote from: Barrister on September 22, 2015, 10:18:10 PM
Thanks, but I want to do a complete hard drive wipe / re-install.
In that case, you could use either a Linux distro on USB or Hiren's boot cd (http://www.hirensbootcd.org/download/). The latter is a bit outdated, but it uses a (illegally) customized Windows XP with some tools. I think Ccleaner is in there, if not, there's something else to wipe the drive.
Quote
So I get Steam working :yeah:
Super!
Quote
But as I start digging around, I realize my copy of Windows is not activated. Probably because I'm using a copy that was previously registered to a completely different computer. Sigh - another trip to customer support...
You should not need to... Usually, you activate Windows 7/8, then you upgrade to Win10 and it does not require activation.
But I'm glad it worked out for you :)
Quote from: viper37 on September 23, 2015, 09:25:43 AM
Quote from: Barrister on September 22, 2015, 10:18:10 PM
Thanks, but I want to do a complete hard drive wipe / re-install.
In that case, you could use either a Linux distro on USB or Hiren's boot cd (http://www.hirensbootcd.org/download/). The latter is a bit outdated, but it uses a (illegally) customized Windows XP with some tools. I think Ccleaner is in there, if not, there's something else to wipe the drive.
Um, Viper, I'm not about to wipe out OS X in order to install Linux on the Mac Pro. The whole point is to get a fresh install before selling the computer
as a Mac.
Quote from: viper
Quote
But as I start digging around, I realize my copy of Windows is not activated. Probably because I'm using a copy that was previously registered to a completely different computer. Sigh - another trip to customer support...
You should not need to... Usually, you activate Windows 7/8, then you upgrade to Win10 and it does not require activation.
But I'm glad it worked out for you :)
I dunno what to tell you. I hadn't seen this on Monday, but when I fired up the computer last night I had this message stuck on my screen "you must register Windows". I wasn't quite sure what the effect of not registering Win 10 might be, but I'm kind of a stickler for these sorts of things so I wanted to get that taken care of. And that's apparently why they gave me a new purchase key.
Quote from: Barrister on September 23, 2015, 12:08:31 PM
Um, Viper, I'm not about to wipe out OS X in order to install Linux on the Mac Pro. The whole point is to get a fresh install before selling the computer as a Mac.
I'm not telling you to install Linux on the Mac either. I'm telling you to create a bootable USB key with a Linux distro on it to wipe out your hard drive.
- Download this tool: https://rufus.akeo.ie/
- Download Knoppix from there: http://torrent.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/ (pick the first EN file)
- Use Rufus to create the USB disk with the Knoppix ISO on a 8gb usb key
- Follow the instructions from point 5 onward: http://www.ehow.com/how_6246449_use-knoppix-wipe-hard-drive.html
- Once the process is done, you can reinstall your MacOS and sell the computer, none of your personal data will be left to be seen, unless
Note: the switch -n 100 tells shred to run the process 100 times. That may be a bit excessive. You could use 3 or 10 times and it would be sufficient, only a skilled hacker would be able to recover data beyond 10. But 100 times makes you NSA proof. Possibly. So if you're planning a Conservative coup to take over the government of Canada following Mulcair's election, it might be prudent to use the -n 100 switch :P
Quote
I dunno what to tell you. I hadn't seen this on Monday, but when I fired up the computer last night I had this message stuck on my screen "you must register Windows". I wasn't quite sure what the effect of not registering Win 10 might be, but I'm kind of a stickler for these sorts of things so I wanted to get that taken care of. And that's apparently why they gave me a new purchase key.
If you're not registered, at some point, you stop receiving the updates to the OS, and it might be possible that the only thing you see one day, booting up the computer, is a black screen. So it was very wise of you to contact them :)
Man, I have to say the boot-up time on this new system is damn impressive. It has to be 15-20 seconds.
I'm sure 98% of that is due to the SSD, but still.
Went into NCIX to get my computer built. Essentially the build Viper suggested. A shipment of i7 chips are expected next week so I should be picking it up in about two weeks.
Thanks again for all the advice
Just got an email that the technician is completing the testing....
BB, I went with a 24 inch screen. Now I need to choose what game I will try first. I am thinking all my old games are going to seem new with the better graphics and increased screen size. :)
prices on the older generation i7 have started to drop. The CPU I want now sells for 400$ instead of the previously 400$ asked...
Low Canadian dollar sucks. :glare: