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General Category => Off the Record => Topic started by: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 04:33:36 AM

Title: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 04:33:36 AM
WARNING: This thread is gay.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpix.motivatedphotos.com%2F2008%2F9%2F23%2F633577592665924127-homosexuals.jpg&hash=e3d54e6d021192d6a756c5d4a0d410cdfd109006)

Alright. People have been complaining about me starting too many gay threads so.... I decided to start this one.  :cool:

I am going to post gay news here (rather than starting a new thread every time I want to post something), in the similar vein as Tamas has a Hungary politics thread.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Razgovory on June 19, 2009, 04:52:42 AM
Tamas has a hungry thread?  I never noticed.  Maybe he should just go eat something rather then post about it.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on June 19, 2009, 05:16:24 AM
I like the idea of a [Gay] tag.  :)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: katmai on June 19, 2009, 06:10:33 AM
Quote from: Caliga on June 19, 2009, 05:16:24 AM
I like the idea of a [Gay] tag.  :)

That doesn't surprise us.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 06:29:54 AM
Ok, so a minor piece of news but kinda surprising.

Within two days of each other (and during the week following Warsaw pride), two conservative public figures announced their support for civil unions.

First, the conservative Polish ex-prime minister (who got the biggest number of votes in Poland during the EP elections and is now being considered for the new European Parliament's speaker) said that while he does not support gay marriage, he is for civil unions, with joint taxation and inheritance for gay couples; and then (more surprisingly) pretty much the same was said by the Catholic Archbishop of Warsaw (until now the church opposed any forms of legal recognition for same sex couples).

LOL did the Warsaw Pride have: impact?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on June 19, 2009, 06:50:08 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 06:29:54 AM
First, the conservative Polish ex-prime minister (who got the biggest number of votes in Poland during the EP elections and is now being considered for the new European Parliament's speaker) said that while he does not support gay marriage, he is for civil unions, with joint taxation and inheritance for gay couples; and then (more surprisingly) pretty much the same was said by the Catholic Archbishop of Warsaw (until now the church opposed any forms of legal recognition for same sex couples).


:blink:
When did Poland suddenly stop being uber conservative central?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 07:15:43 AM
Well, the Archbishop was talking more along the lines of "I don't oppose" than "I support" but it's still quite a big thing, considering it's Poland and the Catholic church. Precisely he said that:

"If that is not going to lead to [full marriage] then it is a thing to consider. If this would facilitate such things as [inheritance, or joint taxation], then I would be open to this. As long as it does not enter the area of values, such as broadening the definition of marriage, then I do not oppose such things."
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 07:17:59 AM
Also, we got a support of the conservative Ombudsman (he was nominated by the PiS government) for introduction of sexual and gender identity minorities as protected groups to Polish anti-hate-speech laws.

Right now we only have protection against discrimination in employment etc., but there is no hate speech protection.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Grey Fox on June 19, 2009, 07:20:28 AM
Now that he has his own thread he star talking about issues in his own Country. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 07:22:15 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on June 19, 2009, 07:20:28 AM
Now that he has his own thread he star talking about issues in his own Country. :rolleyes:
Well, that's pretty much true. As you can see these are not articles I could post and are rather minor news items, so it would be weird to start a new thread every time something like this comes up, no?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Grey Fox on June 19, 2009, 07:24:45 AM
Yes.

It's a good idea you had there. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 07:59:50 AM
LOL apparently now PiS wants to go the Lithuanian way and ban "promotion of homosexuality" in Poland. I hope they fail.  <_<
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on June 19, 2009, 08:02:52 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 07:59:50 AM
LOL apparently now PiS wants to go the Lithuanian way and ban "promotion of homosexuality" in Poland. I hope they fail.  <_<
I hope they succeed.  Let's face it, homosexuals aren't very sympathetic.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 19, 2009, 08:10:41 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 07:15:43 AM
Well, the Archbishop was talking more along the lines of "I don't oppose" than "I support" but it's still quite a big thing, considering it's Poland and the Catholic church. Precisely he said that:

"If that is not going to lead to [full marriage] then it is a thing to consider. If this would facilitate such things as [inheritance, or joint taxation], then I would be open to this. As long as it does not enter the area of values, such as broadening the definition of marriage, then I do not oppose such things."

If I was in his shoes I would do the same thing.  Establishing Civil Unions is really the only way they can stop gays getting marriage in the long term.  All conservatives with half a brain would work towards them.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 19, 2009, 08:11:11 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 04:33:36 AM
WARNING: This thread is gay.

The question is: is it ghey?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: HVC on June 19, 2009, 08:32:35 AM
The Pride Parade might be canceled in Toronto because of an very likely strike by "outside" city workers. Unions hate the gays.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 19, 2009, 08:34:46 AM
Quote from: HVC on June 19, 2009, 08:32:35 AM
The Pride Parade might be canceled in Toronto because of an very likely strike by "outside" city workers. Unions hate the gays.

Isn't the whole point of the parade to confront homophobia in society?  Cancelling it to avoid martyrdom at the hands of homophobes seems rather counter to that.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: HVC on June 19, 2009, 08:36:56 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 19, 2009, 08:34:46 AM
Quote from: HVC on June 19, 2009, 08:32:35 AM
The Pride Parade might be canceled in Toronto because of an very likely strike by "outside" city workers. Unions hate the gays.

Isn't the whole point of the parade to confront homophobia in society?  Cancelling it to avoid martyrdom at the hands of homophobes seems rather counter to that.
Sorry, the union isn't striking the parade. It's just that an operational strike by garbage collectors and the like would cause any parade/festival to be canceled.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on June 19, 2009, 09:37:41 AM
I like that Marty will keep his news to one little irrelevant thread. My recent thread with a [gay] tag was a good idea for the poor sir.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on June 19, 2009, 11:21:18 AM
tagging threads "gay" & "straight" now? :bleeding:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: alfred russel on June 19, 2009, 11:25:21 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 04:33:36 AM
WARNING: This thread is gay.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpix.motivatedphotos.com%2F2008%2F9%2F23%2F633577592665924127-homosexuals.jpg&hash=e3d54e6d021192d6a756c5d4a0d410cdfd109006)

Alright. People have been complaining about me starting too many gay threads so.... I decided to start this one.  :cool:

I am going to post gay news here (rather than starting a new thread every time I want to post something), in the similar vein as Tamas has a Hungary politics thread.

I vote to keep making the threads. The number of threads and posts seems to have declined anyway.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on June 19, 2009, 11:33:26 AM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on June 19, 2009, 11:21:18 AM
tagging threads "gay" & "straight" now? :bleeding:

No, no. We're only going to tag this one thread [gay] and it will be Marty's little sandbox of gay news. :)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on June 19, 2009, 11:36:45 AM
phew.gif ... I don't wanna see abunch of stupid [tags] on threads. I'd much rather hijack threads that tickle my fancy for turning them gay.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Viking on June 19, 2009, 01:42:06 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 19, 2009, 05:16:24 AM
I like the idea of a [Gay] tag.  :)

I like it too, good for us guys who don't have Gaydar.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: MadImmortalMan on June 19, 2009, 02:00:22 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 06:29:54 AM
LOL did the Warsaw Pride have: impact?

You know I kind of doubt it. I get the impression that a lot of things do have impact, but that Pride parades tend to be seen as obnoxious and/or only have positive impact on those already sympathetic. The things that really reach out to change minds IMO are the ones that make it seem like gays are just a normal segment of the population composed of regular people. Which really is the case, right?

People dancing around like Tim Curry in stockings and a boa acting weird makes it seem like these are alien people that can't be understood. The common human first reaction to "outsiders". And in some cases the parade participants really do some things that are meant to be provocative but only translate into offensiveness to the people who ought to be the ones being provoked (into rethinking their ideas, I mean). For those already sympathetic but not part of the celebration, it's a curiosity, it's interesting, but it doesn't really affect opinion.

As a strategy, I think the way Pride parades are generally done is a mistake. Too militant. 
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on June 19, 2009, 02:09:14 PM
Agreed, I don't really think pride parades are put on to win hearts. I think they are generally seen as celebrations for the participants, affirming their existence and giving them a chance to celebrate their openness. The ultimate celebration of a transition from fearful, closeted child to showy glitter queen waltzing down main street.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 02:11:58 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 19, 2009, 02:00:22 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 06:29:54 AM
LOL did the Warsaw Pride have: impact?

You know I kind of doubt it. I get the impression that a lot of things do have impact, but that Pride parades tend to be seen as obnoxious and/or only have positive impact on those already sympathetic. The things that really reach out to change minds IMO are the ones that make it seem like gays are just a normal segment of the population composed of regular people. Which really is the case, right?

People dancing around like Tim Curry in stockings and a boa acting weird makes it seem like these are alien people that can't be understood. The common human first reaction to "outsiders". And in some cases the parade participants really do some things that are meant to be provocative but only translate into offensiveness to the people who ought to be the ones being provoked (into rethinking their ideas, I mean). For those already sympathetic but not part of the celebration, it's a curiosity, it's interesting, but it doesn't really affect opinion.

As a strategy, I think the way Pride parades are generally done is a mistake. Too militant.
Well check out the pictures from the parade I posted in TBR. Polish parades aren't really the SF or Berlin styles - they are mostly people bearing signs. It's more of a political protest than a queer fiesta. :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 02:12:23 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 19, 2009, 02:09:14 PM
Agreed, I don't really think pride parades are put on to win hearts. I think they are generally seen as celebrations for the participants, affirming their existence and giving them a chance to celebrate their openness. The ultimate celebration of a transition from fearful, closeted child to showy glitter queen waltzing down main street.

Yeah, that's true.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: MadImmortalMan on June 19, 2009, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 19, 2009, 02:09:14 PM
Agreed, I don't really think pride parades are put on to win hearts. I think they are generally seen as celebrations for the participants, affirming their existence and giving them a chance to celebrate their openness. The ultimate celebration of a transition from fearful, closeted child to showy glitter queen waltzing down main street.

Yes exactly. They are for the participants, not for everyone else.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Zanza on June 19, 2009, 02:51:33 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 07:15:43 AM
Well, the Archbishop was talking more along the lines of "I don't oppose" than "I support" but it's still quite a big thing, considering it's Poland and the Catholic church. Precisely he said that:

"If that is not going to lead to [full marriage] then it is a thing to consider. If this would facilitate such things as [inheritance, or joint taxation], then I would be open to this. As long as it does not enter the area of values, such as broadening the definition of marriage, then I do not oppose such things."
That's really all one can reasonably expect from a Catholic bishop. After all, they would compromise their dogma otherwise.

Sounds like a good development for Poland. :)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 02:53:18 PM
Quote from: Zanza2 on June 19, 2009, 02:51:33 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 07:15:43 AM
Well, the Archbishop was talking more along the lines of "I don't oppose" than "I support" but it's still quite a big thing, considering it's Poland and the Catholic church. Precisely he said that:

"If that is not going to lead to [full marriage] then it is a thing to consider. If this would facilitate such things as [inheritance, or joint taxation], then I would be open to this. As long as it does not enter the area of values, such as broadening the definition of marriage, then I do not oppose such things."
That's really all one can reasonably expect from a Catholic bishop. After all, they would compromise their dogma otherwise.

Sounds like a good development for Poland. :)
I don't think it's their dogma, per se, but I get what you mean. Essentially, it's the farthest he can go without the church changing its official teachings (which is not dogma, as far as I understand, just something that is hard to change).
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on June 19, 2009, 04:03:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 19, 2009, 08:10:41 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 07:15:43 AM
Well, the Archbishop was talking more along the lines of "I don't oppose" than "I support" but it's still quite a big thing, considering it's Poland and the Catholic church. Precisely he said that:

"If that is not going to lead to [full marriage] then it is a thing to consider. If this would facilitate such things as [inheritance, or joint taxation], then I would be open to this. As long as it does not enter the area of values, such as broadening the definition of marriage, then I do not oppose such things."

If I was in his shoes I would do the same thing.  Establishing Civil Unions is really the only way they can stop gays getting marriage in the long term.  All conservatives with half a brain would work towards them.

I support civil unions (although the horse is out of the barn in this country)... :unsureL
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on June 19, 2009, 04:05:04 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on June 19, 2009, 11:21:18 AM
tagging threads "gay" & "straight" now? :bleeding:
Damn bis <_<
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on June 19, 2009, 07:11:45 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 19, 2009, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 19, 2009, 02:09:14 PM
Agreed, I don't really think pride parades are put on to win hearts. I think they are generally seen as celebrations for the participants, affirming their existence and giving them a chance to celebrate their openness. The ultimate celebration of a transition from fearful, closeted child to showy glitter queen waltzing down main street.

Yes exactly. They are for the participants, not for everyone else.

It's just a parade. Don't go, if you don't feel like seeing it.  I see it as just another parade, like the Santa Claus parade mixed with a Dyke March(tm)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Ed Anger on June 19, 2009, 07:18:37 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on June 19, 2009, 07:11:45 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 19, 2009, 02:12:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on June 19, 2009, 02:09:14 PM
Agreed, I don't really think pride parades are put on to win hearts. I think they are generally seen as celebrations for the participants, affirming their existence and giving them a chance to celebrate their openness. The ultimate celebration of a transition from fearful, closeted child to showy glitter queen waltzing down main street.

Yes exactly. They are for the participants, not for everyone else.

It's just a parade. Don't go, if you don't feel like seeing it.  I see it as just another parade, like the Santa Claus parade mixed with a Dyke March(tm)

I want to send a float to one of those parades, but then Flounder throws marbles in the street while me and D-Day break the float in half and run over a bunch of gays in flounders brother's car.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on June 19, 2009, 08:54:40 PM
Okay, byzanteen. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 20, 2009, 03:04:47 AM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.queerty.com%2Fwp%2Fdocs%2F2009%2F06%2Fobamafiececartoon.jpg&hash=0cf087c56ca143eded5633c3328d5171976b3803)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on June 21, 2009, 12:25:18 PM
not that funny either.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on June 21, 2009, 01:17:20 PM
Furries. :x
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on June 21, 2009, 04:08:34 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furcadia -_-
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Jaron on June 22, 2009, 04:48:58 AM
Is that funny in Poland? Because its not over here.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Crazy_Ivan80 on June 22, 2009, 07:34:32 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 19, 2009, 04:03:45 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 19, 2009, 08:10:41 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 19, 2009, 07:15:43 AM
Well, the Archbishop was talking more along the lines of "I don't oppose" than "I support" but it's still quite a big thing, considering it's Poland and the Catholic church. Precisely he said that:

"If that is not going to lead to [full marriage] then it is a thing to consider. If this would facilitate such things as [inheritance, or joint taxation], then I would be open to this. As long as it does not enter the area of values, such as broadening the definition of marriage, then I do not oppose such things."

If I was in his shoes I would do the same thing.  Establishing Civil Unions is really the only way they can stop gays getting marriage in the long term.  All conservatives with half a brain would work towards them.

I support civil unions (although the horse is out of the barn in this country)... :unsureL

if a civil union has all the trappings of marriage it's rather dishonest to call it something else than marriage.

Heh, I even doubt that the couple having a 'civil union' will say that they've been civil unioned rather than married.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 22, 2009, 08:40:27 AM
Yeah, civil unions might be an important step towards equality, but ultimately it is a "separate but equal" measure. Anyone who agrees to it, but not to full marriage equality, must be aware of this dishonesty.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 22, 2009, 08:45:11 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 22, 2009, 08:40:27 AM
Yeah, civil unions might be an important step towards equality, but ultimately it is a "separate but equal" measure. Anyone who agrees to it, but not to full marriage equality, must be aware of this dishonesty.

Um...I am for full gay marriage but I am a bit annoyed by bringing up the 'separate but equal' thing in this context.  Are you implying we are not going to fund civil unions the same way we didn't fund black education?  That we are going to some how segregate gay people from straight people?  Because I don't really see how calling it a different name for an equal thing is anything more than a political trick not some way to keep gay people separate than straight people or keep them down.

So how the fuck would it keep anything 'separate' which in the sense that phrase was used referred to racial segregation?  You not being able to marry sucks but don't compare it to Jim Crow for godsake.  Hyperbole anyone?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 22, 2009, 08:57:15 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 22, 2009, 08:45:11 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 22, 2009, 08:40:27 AM
Yeah, civil unions might be an important step towards equality, but ultimately it is a "separate but equal" measure. Anyone who agrees to it, but not to full marriage equality, must be aware of this dishonesty.

Um...I am for full gay marriage but I am a bit annoyed by bringing up the 'separate but equal' thing in this context.  Are you implying we are not going to fund civil unions the same way we didn't fund black education?  That we are going to some how segregate gay people from straight people?  Because I don't really see how calling it a different name for an equal thing is anything more than a political trick not some way to keep gay people separate than straight people or keep them down.

So how the fuck would it keep anything 'separate' which in the sense that phrase was used referred to racial segregation?  You not being able to marry sucks but don't compare it to Jim Crow for godsake.  Hyperbole anyone?

Well, that's exactly what's going to happen. Because if we called same-sex unions "marriages", then all rights awarded to "opposite" marriages would automatically apply to same sex ones - and any situation in which they don't would automatically count as discrimination, whether it comes to the public or the private sector (e.g. as far as rights are being granted by companies to spouses of employees).

If you don't do that, and keep it separate but equal, then yes, you will open a door to discrimination - because every time someone will award a new right or privilege to married couples, you will run into an argument whether it should or should not also extend to couples in civil unions.

So it is exactly like "separate but equal" - you have equality in theory, but in practice you leave a door open to discrimination via other means.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 23, 2009, 07:20:19 AM
QuoteJune 22, 2009
Gay Kiss Boosts Soap's Ratings
By Julie Bolcer

A kiss between two male characters helped the British soap opera EastEnders bubble to the top of its slot on Friday evening, drawing an estimated 7.9 million viewers on BBC 1.

The controversial kiss is part of a new story line for the long-running soap in which Syed Masood, a Muslim played by Marc Elliot, struggles with his sexuality and faith. During Friday's episode, Masood kissed openly gay character Christian Clarke, played by John Partridge.

According to unofficial figures reported in The Guardian, the kiss on Friday propelled EastEnders to an average of 7.6 million viewers and a 38% percent share between 8 and 8:30 p.m. The number of viewers peaked at 7.9 million in the final 15 minutes of the episode, when the kiss took place.

Last month, when the plotline was revealed, Muslim leaders attacked the direction.

"There's a lack of understanding of Muslims already and I think EastEnders really lost an opportunity to present a normal friendly Muslim character to the British public," Asghar Bokhari of the Muslim Public Affairs Committee told the BBC.

This *is* a normal friendly Muslim character, you towelhead moonworshipping retard. Seriously, is this the "moderate Muslim" movement that is supposed to exist in the UK, at least according to Gupta?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 23, 2009, 07:35:50 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 23, 2009, 07:20:19 AM
This *is* a normal friendly Muslim character, you towelhead moonworshipping retard. Seriously, is this the "moderate Muslim" movement that is supposed to exist in the UK, at least according to Gupta?

There is a lack of understanding about how homophobic and backwards Muslims really are and they missed an opportunity by showing a gay one. :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 23, 2009, 08:07:32 AM
Hey, you haven't answered my post about "separate but equal". Does it mean you agree with my reasoning? :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 23, 2009, 08:25:27 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 23, 2009, 08:07:32 AM
Hey, you haven't answered my post about "separate but equal". Does it mean you agree with my reasoning? :P

What you said was theoretically possible but I have a hard time believing once the community agrees to Civil Unions there is really going to be a majority out to persecute gays and make CUs weaker over time.  Rather I believe it would lead directly to marriage and acceptance, like it did in Vermont.  It would not lead to some sort of segregated marriage like Jim Crow, what we have seen up to know I think makes this fear absurd.  If you say that is exactly what is going to happen you need to, you know, have an instance where that happened.

I still have a hard time using the language of civil rights, slavery, Jim Crow, racial segregation and all that enter into this. 
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 23, 2009, 08:27:49 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 23, 2009, 08:25:27 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 23, 2009, 08:07:32 AM
Hey, you haven't answered my post about "separate but equal". Does it mean you agree with my reasoning? :P

What you said was theoretically possible but I have a hard time believing once the community agrees to Civil Unions there is really going to be a majority out to persecute gays and make CUs weaker over time.  Rather I believe it would lead directly to marriage and acceptance, like it did in Vermont.

I still have a hard time using the language of civil rights, slavery, Jim Crow, racial segregation and all that enter into this.

Well, it's not like the situation is going to be the same, everywhere, especially in a country as diverse as the US.

Only because people agree to something at a federal or a state level, does not mean that in every single jurisdiction within the US (or every single company or municipality etc.) the majority will be against discrimination.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 23, 2009, 08:31:58 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 23, 2009, 08:27:49 AM
Well, it's not like the situation is going to be the same, everywhere, especially in a country as diverse as the US.

Only because people agree to something at a federal or a state level, does not mean that in every single jurisdiction within the US (or every single company or municipality etc.) the majority will be against discrimination.

I am pretty sure every company, municipality, etc... is required to comform to state law.  Clearly we cannot make laws forbidding people to break the law.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on June 23, 2009, 08:44:38 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 22, 2009, 08:40:27 AM
Yeah, civil unions might be an important step towards equality, but ultimately it is a "separate but equal" measure. Anyone who agrees to it, but not to full marriage equality, must be aware of this dishonesty.
Gays already have the right to marry someone of the opposite sex, same as everyone else.  They do not have the right to marry someone of the same sex, a toaster, an animal, a colour or an anime character, same as everyone else.

Homosexuality should be abolished, for the good of all mankind.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 23, 2009, 09:05:28 AM
Quote from: Neil on June 23, 2009, 08:44:38 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 22, 2009, 08:40:27 AM
Yeah, civil unions might be an important step towards equality, but ultimately it is a "separate but equal" measure. Anyone who agrees to it, but not to full marriage equality, must be aware of this dishonesty.
Gays already have the right to marry someone of the opposite sex, same as everyone else.  They do not have the right to marry someone of the same sex, a toaster, an animal, a colour or an anime character, same as everyone else.

Homosexuality should be abolished, for the good of all mankind.

Do you mind stopping commenting in my threads? It's not that you are a retarded troll, it's that you seem to be repeating the same things over and over again.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: alfred russel on June 23, 2009, 09:27:15 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 23, 2009, 08:27:49 AM


Well, it's not like the situation is going to be the same, everywhere, especially in a country as diverse as the US.

Only because people agree to something at a federal or a state level, does not mean that in every single jurisdiction within the US (or every single company or municipality etc.) the majority will be against discrimination.

If civil unions are defined as being equal in rights to marriage and equivalent in the eyes of the law, civil unions in those states would seem to be a reasonable comprimise.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 24, 2009, 11:03:49 AM
Ok, so more bizarro news from Poland.

The Polish public TV is currently in the hands of a CEO who got there as a nationalist/extreme right-wing/antisemitic/homophobic apparatchik (long story - has to do with the old PiS government, and their minor League of Polish Families coalition partner, who later got into the public TV and ousted PiS appointees and now cannot be recalled until his mandate expires).

So, when yesterday I heard about the Polish GLAAD equivalent protesting about the public TV offering the new spouse and non-married-partner health insurance coverage only to employees in opposite sex relationships I was like "Gee, not much of a surprise."  :rolleyes:

So, today they issue a press release saying they are very sorry, that this was an omission because of the standard wording of the insurance agreement, and it is now being fixed, and they will offer the coverage to same sex partners of employees.

Wtf.  :huh:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on June 24, 2009, 11:24:19 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 24, 2009, 11:03:49 AM
Ok, so more bizarro news from Poland.

The Polish public TV is currently in the hands of a CEO who got there as a nationalist/extreme right-wing/antisemitic/homophobic apparatchik (long story - has to do with the old PiS government, and their minor League of Polish Families coalition partner, who later got into the public TV and ousted PiS appointees and now cannot be recalled until his mandate expires).

So, when yesterday I heard about the Polish GLAAD equivalent protesting about the public TV offering the new spouse and non-married-partner health insurance coverage only to employees in opposite sex relationships I was like "Gee, not much of a surprise."  :rolleyes:

So, today they issue a press release saying they are very sorry, that this was an omission because of the standard wording of the insurance agreement, and it is now being fixed, and they will offer the coverage to same sex partners of employees.

Wtf.  :huh:

:Ha Ha: ?

:p
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: MadImmortalMan on June 25, 2009, 02:30:41 PM



Quote
     BRIDGEPORT, Conn. (AP) - A Connecticut church has outraged gay rights advocates by posting a video of members performing an apparent exorcism of a teen's "homosexual demons."

The 20-minute video was posted on YouTube before it was taken down.

Gay youth advocate Robin McHaelen (mih-KAY'-lehn) says the video appears to show abuse. She says she plans to report it to the Connecticut Department of Children and Families.

The boy confirms he is 16 but otherwise has declined to comment.

The Rev. Patricia McKinney of Manifested Glory Ministries in Bridgeport says he is 18 and came to the church on his own seeking help.

She denies the church is prejudiced and says it took care of the youth.

Bridgeport, Conn: Bible Belt.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on June 25, 2009, 02:50:27 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 25, 2009, 02:30:41 PM

Quote

She denies the church is prejudiced and says it took care of the youth.


[Jules] Took care of? [/Jules]
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 25, 2009, 03:13:58 PM
QuoteShe denies the church is prejudiced

They love gay people.  They want to save them all from the demons of gayness.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Ed Anger on June 25, 2009, 03:21:39 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 25, 2009, 02:30:41 PM



Quote
     BRIDGEPORT, Conn. (AP) - A Connecticut church has outraged gay rights advocates by posting a video of members performing an apparent exorcism of a teen's "homosexual demons."

The 20-minute video was posted on YouTube before it was taken down.

Gay youth advocate Robin McHaelen (mih-KAY'-lehn) says the video appears to show abuse. She says she plans to report it to the Connecticut Department of Children and Families.

The boy confirms he is 16 but otherwise has declined to comment.

The Rev. Patricia McKinney of Manifested Glory Ministries in Bridgeport says he is 18 and came to the church on his own seeking help.

She denies the church is prejudiced and says it took care of the youth.

Bridgeport, Conn: Bible Belt.

I loved watching that video.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on June 25, 2009, 03:29:48 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 25, 2009, 03:13:58 PM
QuoteShe denies the church is prejudiced

They love gay people.  They want to save them all from the demons of gayness.
Surgery is the best way to do this. 
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Iormlund on June 25, 2009, 04:14:15 PM
I guess this is the best thread for this:

My brother works on an app that assigns an identification code to medical reports, based on semantics and a given dictionary of illnesses, procedures and such. This is useful for admin purposes (calculating costs, planning what to buy or who to hire next, etc).
Anyway, recently a panicked civil servant contacted them: they had discovered the dictionary (which had been supplied by them to my brother's team) listed homosexuality as an illness. And they wanted it gone before someone (the press!) found out! :lol:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 25, 2009, 04:26:00 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on June 25, 2009, 04:14:15 PM
I guess this is the best thread for this:

My brother works on an app that assigns an identification code to medical reports, based on semantics and a given dictionary of illnesses, procedures and such. This is useful for admin purposes (calculating costs, planning what to buy or who to hire next, etc).
Anyway, recently a panicked civil servant contacted them: they had discovered the dictionary (which had been supplied by them to my brother's team) listed homosexuality as an illness. And they wanted it gone before someone (the press!) found out! :lol:

That's it. I'm calling El Pais.  :mad:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: ulmont on June 25, 2009, 06:38:02 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on June 25, 2009, 04:14:15 PM
Anyway, recently a panicked civil servant contacted them: they had discovered the dictionary (which had been supplied by them to my brother's team) listed homosexuality as an illness.

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (the ultimate psychology reference in the US) had homosexuality as an illness from 1952 to about 1987 (the DSM-III-R).

Of course, it also had "pre-menstrual dysphoric disorder" for the same period, so maybe your brother should check on that as well.  ;)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 28, 2009, 02:36:01 PM
Apparently, the Lithuanian President vetoed the homophobic law I posted about earlier. Now the Lithuanian Parliament needs 2/3 majority to overrule the veto. Still, kudos to the Pres.

In other news: did you know that HIV positive foreigners right now cannot enter the US? Apparently, they are now moving to repeal that policy. Still it's a bit of a disgrace, isn't it?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Ed Anger on June 28, 2009, 02:37:15 PM
Nope. They can stay home and keep their diseases away from us.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on June 28, 2009, 02:40:10 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 28, 2009, 02:36:01 PM
In other news: did you know that HIV positive foreigners right now cannot enter the US? Apparently, they are now moving to repeal that policy. Still it's a bit of a disgrace, isn't it?
Why would anyone want more AIDS-monkey faggots to enter the US?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Ed Anger on June 28, 2009, 02:41:19 PM
They'll steal all our AZT and see the big board.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Maximus on June 28, 2009, 03:49:51 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 25, 2009, 02:50:27 PM

[Jules] Took care of? [/Jules]
:cheers:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: MadImmortalMan on June 28, 2009, 03:58:39 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 28, 2009, 02:36:01 PM
In other news: did you know that HIV positive foreigners right now cannot enter the US? Apparently, they are now moving to repeal that policy. Still it's a bit of a disgrace, isn't it?

You're not suggesting this is a gay issue, are you?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 28, 2009, 04:02:12 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 28, 2009, 03:58:39 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 28, 2009, 02:36:01 PM
In other news: did you know that HIV positive foreigners right now cannot enter the US? Apparently, they are now moving to repeal that policy. Still it's a bit of a disgrace, isn't it?

You're not suggesting this is a gay issue, are you?

For some reason, all gay news sites are reporting this, so why don't you take it with them?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Ed Anger on June 28, 2009, 04:04:15 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 28, 2009, 04:02:12 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on June 28, 2009, 03:58:39 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 28, 2009, 02:36:01 PM
In other news: did you know that HIV positive foreigners right now cannot enter the US? Apparently, they are now moving to repeal that policy. Still it's a bit of a disgrace, isn't it?

You're not suggesting this is a gay issue, are you?

For some reason, all gay news sites are reporting this, so why don't you take it with them?

Gay news, giving you info on old policy.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 29, 2009, 08:39:35 AM
Personally I loved this piece of news:

QuoteJune 26, 2009
Poland Gets First Openly Gay Rabbi
By Julie Bolcer

The Associated Press profiles Aaron Katz, Poland's first openly gay rabbi, whose achievement has some Jews asking whether the country is ready for such a trailblazer.

Katz, 53, serves Beit Warszawa,  a Reform congregation in Warsaw. He lives in the capital city's historic Jewish district with Kevin Gleason, a former Hollywood producer with whom he entered into a domestic partnership in Los Angeles two years ago. The couple, who consider themselves married, moved to Warsaw in March.

Katz, who has opened his home to the community, said he has not faced discrimination or homophobia in Poland, an overwhelmingly Catholic country where leading politicians have publicly declared antigay views in recent years. However, some community members privately told the AP that they worried their community, its size decimated by the Holocaust, remained too "fragile" to sustain any potential controversy.

Born in Argentina to parents who fled the Holocaust in Poland, Katz has five children from a previous marriage to a woman when he was an Orthodox rabbi in Sweden.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.advocate.com%2FuploadedImages%2FADVOCATE%2FEDITORIAL%2FNEWS%2F20090626%2Fpoland_jewishx390.jpg&hash=96c604ceb8e5518c41f27f471d01fb5bfc7be84e)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 29, 2009, 08:41:07 AM
 :Joos

QuoteKatz has five children from a previous marriage to a woman when he was an Orthodox rabbi in Sweden.

I am glad you don't hold his breeding against him Marty.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 29, 2009, 08:42:57 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 29, 2009, 08:41:07 AM
:Joos

QuoteKatz has five children from a previous marriage to a woman when he was an Orthodox rabbi in Sweden.

I am glad you don't hold his breeding against him Marty.

Everyone is entitled to make mistakes in their past. I considered becoming a priest, for example. It's good he saw the light in the end though. :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on July 01, 2009, 01:04:23 AM
QuoteObama reaffirms support for gay-rights activism
By LIZ SIDOTI – 1 day ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — Countering criticism that he's done little on gay rights, President Barack Obama commemorated the 40th anniversary of the birth of the modern movement by welcoming its leaders to the White House and reaffirming his commitment to their top priorities.
"I want you to know: You have our support," Obama told members of the core Democratic constituency as he and first lady Michelle Obama hosted a cocktail-and-appetizer reception in the East Room for gay pride month. It's been some four decades since the police raid on New York City's gay Stonewall Inn that spurred gay rights activism across the country.
As activists work to change minds and change laws, Obama added: "I will not only be your friend, I will continue to be an ally and a champion and a president who fights with you and for you."
Since Obama took office in January, some activists have complained that Obama has not followed through on his campaign promises on issues they hold dear and has not championed their causes from the White House, including ending the ban on gays in the military.
Obama pleaded for patience.
"I know many in this room don't believe that progress has come fast enough. And I understand that," Obama said. But he added: "I expect and hope to be judged not by words, not by promises I've made, but by promises that my administration keeps."
By the time he leaves office, the president said, "I think you guys will have pretty good feelings about the Obama administration."
The crowd erupted in cheers.
He noted that he has issued a presidential memorandum expanding some federal benefits to same-sex partners. Critics have noted that it doesn't include health benefits or pension guarantees.
Obama also reminded the audience that he has called on Congress to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act, which limits how state, local and federal bodies can recognize partnerships and determine benefits. Still, he added: "We have a duty to uphold existing law, but I believe we must do so in a way that does not exacerbate existing divides."
He said that does not mean he doesn't back a repeal of the law.
Obama also said the administration is working to pass an employee nondiscrimination bill and a hate crimes bill that includes protections for gays and lesbian, and he said it's committed to rescinding a ban on entry to the United States based on HIV status.
Obama reiterated his support for repealing the "don't ask, don't tell" policy that allows gays and lesbians to serve in the military as long as they don't disclose their sexual orientation or act on it. He said he doesn't believe the policy makes the United State more secure, and he said his administration is working with Congress to develop a plan that will end the practice legislatively in a way that ensures the new policy works in the long term.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hD44wv9zY1va6QYaGsSwlxST9nRAD994JJ1O0

So, Languish 'mos, what do you think? A genuine commitment for change or is this just a honeymoon period starting again? :P 

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi301.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn52%2Fcfishy5%2FCycleofviolence.gif&hash=726af3aa2a829c1640985b794f7cc32e6df7539e)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: MadImmortalMan on July 01, 2009, 01:45:44 AM
LOL nice graphic. Frankly, I don't see anything significant happening on DADT soon. So, I guess I vote honeymoon, unfortunately.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: citizen k on July 01, 2009, 01:46:59 AM
266 and counting.  :cry:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Brazen on July 01, 2009, 02:11:48 AM
See this yesterday Mart? The March of Gay Politics:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8114591.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8114591.stm)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on July 02, 2009, 10:32:50 AM
Here's one for my heteroly-challenged friends. You can now fuck around (in the literalist of literal senses) in India. No sign of the actual article yet but there's some stupid discussion:

http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?forumID=6679&edition=1&ttl=20090702163126

Edit, ah here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8130052.stm
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on July 02, 2009, 10:41:06 AM
Hehe I love the American bitch comparing gay sex to serial killing. The BBC discussion page never fails to deliver the morons.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on July 02, 2009, 10:52:52 AM
Good going, India!
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Faeelin on July 02, 2009, 11:39:19 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 01, 2009, 01:04:23 AM

So, Languish 'mos, what do you think? A genuine commitment for change or is this just a honeymoon period starting again? :P 
Steaming pile of shit, and makes me glad the Stonewall fundraiser failed to raise more than 250k.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on July 02, 2009, 11:55:02 AM
The funny thing is conservative social types are freaking out about how Homo friendly Obama is.  He might as well support gays and at least get the credit for the thing he is being blamed for.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on July 02, 2009, 12:02:19 PM
personally I think people are over reacting a bit in the media over Obama's supposed cold shoulder. But then that's all the media does anymore is blow every single issue out there completely out of proportion. I blame 24/7 news cycles. The world was more interesting when you only got news a couple of times aday.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: sbr on July 02, 2009, 12:04:58 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 01, 2009, 01:45:44 AM
LOL nice graphic. Frankly, I don't see anything significant happening on DADT soon. So, I guess I vote honeymoon, unfortunately.

http://www.military.com/news/article/gates-looks-to-ease-rules-against-gays.html

Gates is considering easing the rules a bit until they are able to get it repealed.


QuoteJuly 01, 2009
Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Tuesday he wants to make the law prohibiting gays from serving openly in the armed forces "more humane" until Congress eventually repeals it. He said he has lawyers studying ways the law might be selectively enforced.

"One of the things we're looking at is, is there flexibility in how we apply this law?" Gates said.

Gates made his comment the same day that a military administrative board recommended that a National Guard officer and combat veteran who publicly announced he's gay should be discharged for violating the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

Lt. Dan Choi would be the first New York National Guard member discharged for violating the policy against homosexual conduct, said Lt. Col. Paul Fanning, a spokesman for the New York Army National Guard.

Gates, a holdover from the Republican administration of former President George W. Bush, told reporters traveling with him in Europe that the Clinton-era ban was written without much wiggle room. The Pentagon general counsel is looking at potential avenues around full enforcement as a stopgap, Gates said.

For example, Gates said, the military might not have to expel someone whose sexual orientation was revealed by a third party out of vindictiveness or suspect motives. That would include, Gates said, someone who was "jilted" by the gay service member.

"That's the kind of thing we're looking at, to see if there's at least a more humane way to apply the law until the law gets changed," Gates said, according to a transcript released by the Pentagon.

But even that kind of change would not help Choi, who revealed himself to be gay during an interview on a nationally televised news program.

Choi said discharging him for being gay amounted to firing him "for nothing more than telling the truth about who I am."

Choi, 28, appeared in Syracuse before a Federal Recognition Board, a panel of four military officers, which deliberated four hours before deciding to recommend the Army no longer recognize him as an officer -- effectively discharging him.

The recommendation must be approved by the First Army commander and the chief of the National Guard Bureau before Choi is discharged, a process that could take anywhere from a few weeks to a year, said Maj. Roy Diehl, who represented Choi. Until then, Choi remains an active member of the National Guard, he said.

"It's a recommendation, not a completed act," Diehl said, adding he hoped military commanders would reconsider Choi's value as a soldier. Choi is a West Point graduate who majored in Arabic and environmental engineering. He served in Iraq with the 10th Mountain Division for 15 months in 2006 and 2007, leading combat patrols through a region called the Triangle of Death and serving as a translator and language instructor. He also helped rebuild schools and hospitals.

In 2008, he left the Army and joined the 1st Battalion, 69th Infantry of the New York National Guard, based in Manhattan.

Choi likely will receive an honorable or a general discharge and could lose some of his veteran educational benefits, Diehl said.

"They are taking effective troops ... and kicking them out, removing them from the force just as effectively as if al-Qaida was blowing them up," said Diehl, who claimed the military is more tolerant of drug abusers, malcontents and adulterers.

Gay rights activists and others have criticized the Obama administration for not quickly following through on a pledge to lift the ban on openly gay military service.

President Barack Obama and his spokesmen say he remains committed to repealing "don't ask, don't tell," but neither the White House nor congressional leadership has moved swiftly to do so.

There is no timetable for the pending bill to repeal the 1993 law, which was intended as a compromise to get around a full ban on gay military service. Gay rights leaders, however, have said it is an insult.

Obama says he wants to build support for the change among military commanders before urging Congress to move ahead.

The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff and others have cautioned that repeal of the law must be done carefully so as not to disrupt military cohesion in wartime or to place an additional burden on an already overstretched uniformed force.

Gates said he discussed repeal of the no-gays policy with Obama last week, but he did not detail the conversation.

"We were talking about how do we move forward on this to achieve his objective, which is changing the policy, and the issue that we face is that how do we begin to do preparations and simultaneously the administration move forward in terms of asking the Congress to change the law," Gates said.

Several liberal legal experts and outside groups have urged Obama to issue an executive order that would make the law unenforceable, but Gates appeared to be considering measures short of that.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on July 02, 2009, 12:06:14 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on July 02, 2009, 12:02:19 PM
personally I think people are over reacting a bit in the media over Obama's supposed cold shoulder. But then that's all the media does anymore is blow every single issue out there completely out of proportion. I blame 24/7 news cycles. The world was more interesting when you only got news a couple of times aday.

And amazingly despite having news 24/7 I do not feel particularly informed.  Most of the news shows are actually pundit shows where people advance whatever their particular partisan team is.

Meh.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on July 02, 2009, 12:07:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 02, 2009, 12:06:14 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on July 02, 2009, 12:02:19 PM
personally I think people are over reacting a bit in the media over Obama's supposed cold shoulder. But then that's all the media does anymore is blow every single issue out there completely out of proportion. I blame 24/7 news cycles. The world was more interesting when you only got news a couple of times aday.

And amazingly despite having news 24/7 I do not feel particularly informed.  Most of the news shows are actually pundit shows where people advance whatever their particular partisan team is.

Meh.
That's the second-largest type of news show.  The largest is, of course, celebrity news.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on July 02, 2009, 12:08:52 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 02, 2009, 12:07:49 PM
That's the second-largest type of news show.  The largest is, of course, celebrity news.

Michael Jackson :bleeding:

Seriously is this CNN or E!?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on July 02, 2009, 12:16:12 PM
CNN has been a shill for Hollywood for at least a decade. No credibility whatsoever since OJ, maybe before that even.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on July 02, 2009, 12:37:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 02, 2009, 11:55:02 AM
The funny thing is conservative social types are freaking out about how Homo friendly Obama is.  He might as well support gays and at least get the credit for the thing he is being blamed for.

Well, conservatives are fucked up. The guy who died recently (the supply side economy guy about whom I started the "Burn in hell" thread - can't remember the name, since I found about him at queerty.com) apparently accused Reagan of being controlled by a "gay cabal", too.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Grallon on July 02, 2009, 12:37:55 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on July 02, 2009, 12:02:19 PM
...But then that's all the media does anymore is blow every single issue out there completely out of proportion. I blame 24/7 news cycles. The world was more interesting when you only got news a couple of times aday.



Are you surprised ?  Information has become a spectacle, or more precisely, an entertainment product.



G.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Grallon on July 02, 2009, 12:39:37 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 02, 2009, 11:55:02 AM
The funny thing is conservative social types are freaking out about how Homo friendly Obama is.  He might as well support gays and at least get the credit for the thing he is being blamed for.


When are american conservatives *not* freaking out about something or other?  We should speed them on their way to their god.  <_<




G.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on July 02, 2009, 12:42:10 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 02, 2009, 12:37:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 02, 2009, 11:55:02 AM
The funny thing is conservative social types are freaking out about how Homo friendly Obama is.  He might as well support gays and at least get the credit for the thing he is being blamed for.

Well, conservatives are fucked up. The guy who died recently (the supply side economy guy about whom I started the "Burn in hell" thread - can't remember the name, since I found about him at queerty.com) apparently accused Reagan of being controlled by a "gay cabal", too.

Wow - you're incensed at some guy whose name you can't even remember.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on July 02, 2009, 12:44:46 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on July 02, 2009, 12:02:19 PM
personally I think people are over reacting a bit in the media over Obama's supposed cold shoulder. But then that's all the media does anymore is blow every single issue out there completely out of proportion. I blame 24/7 news cycles. The world was more interesting when you only got news a couple of times aday.

Actually, from the gay media sources I have been following, the cold shoulder thing has imo started in the gay community and now blown over into the mainstream media - there has been a lot of discontent about his inaction, and this pretty much flared up completely after the DoJ DOMA defense brief. So I don't think this is a media circus, but a genuine outrage.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on July 02, 2009, 12:46:01 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on July 02, 2009, 12:02:19 PM
personally I think people are over reacting a bit in the media over Obama's supposed cold shoulder

Well everyone was expecting a massive outpouring of change after placing all their hopes on Obama.  When that didn't happen, you get the inevitable fallout...especially when the Dems have been passing most of their other wet dreams. :)


Good on India btw.

Oh and I agree with what Marty said about where the outrage came from, it was from the streets.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Faeelin on July 02, 2009, 12:58:33 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 02, 2009, 12:46:01 PM
[Well everyone was expecting a massive outpouring of change after placing all their hopes on Obama.  When that didn't happen, you get the inevitable fallout...especially when the Dems have been passing most of their other wet dreams. :)

Have they? Waxman-Markley looks DOA, Health care reform is turning into a mess, and Obama's buy holding people indefinitely. What liberal wet dream have they passed?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: sbr on July 02, 2009, 01:12:09 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on July 02, 2009, 12:02:19 PM
personally I think people are over reacting a bit in the media over Obama's supposed cold shoulder. But then that's all the media does anymore is blow every single issue out there completely out of proportion. I blame 24/7 news cycles. The world was more interesting when you only got news a couple of times aday.

I agree.  Obama has been in office for what 180 days?  He has had some bigger fish to fry right off the bat -economy, N Korea, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.  If he finishes his term without addressing some of these gay issues then then there will be room to complain. 
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on July 02, 2009, 01:28:08 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on July 02, 2009, 12:58:33 PM
Waxman-Markley looks DOA,
I've been watching that with some amusement.  Greenpeace always makes me laugh.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Faeelin on July 02, 2009, 01:29:06 PM
Quote from: sbr on July 02, 2009, 01:12:09 PM
I agree.  Obama has been in office for what 180 days?  He has had some bigger fish to fry right off the bat -economy, N Korea, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.  If he finishes his term without addressing some of these gay issues then then there will be room to complain.

Well, a few thoughts. Frist, the wonderful benefits he signed could have been done instantly or far sooner than new when he came into office. Lord knows he signed plenty of other executive orders that are more controversial than "Gays can use sick days to take care of their partners."

Second, I don't think most people expected anything controversial from the Dems in their first year of office. But ENDA? That's got the support of most of the country. I also think the DOMA brief set a lot of people off, because it was carefully crafted to deal a huge blow to gay rights and had to have approval from high in the Obama administration.



Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on July 02, 2009, 03:43:35 PM
Quote from: sbr on July 02, 2009, 01:12:09 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on July 02, 2009, 12:02:19 PM
personally I think people are over reacting a bit in the media over Obama's supposed cold shoulder. But then that's all the media does anymore is blow every single issue out there completely out of proportion. I blame 24/7 news cycles. The world was more interesting when you only got news a couple of times aday.

I agree.  Obama has been in office for what 180 days?  He has had some bigger fish to fry right off the bat -economy, N Korea, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.  If he finishes his term without addressing some of these gay issues then then there will be room to complain.

Who the fuck are you?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on July 02, 2009, 05:58:13 PM
Quote from: Grallon on July 02, 2009, 12:37:55 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on July 02, 2009, 12:02:19 PM
...But then that's all the media does anymore is blow every single issue out there completely out of proportion. I blame 24/7 news cycles. The world was more interesting when you only got news a couple of times aday.



Are you surprised ?  Information has become a spectacle, or more precisely, an entertainment product.



G.

umm no i'm not. that's why i wrote that post. anyone who expects journalism from CNN hasn't watched CNN since the early 90's
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on July 03, 2009, 03:46:29 AM
QuoteDavid Cameron apologises to gay people for section 28

Nicholas Watt
The Guardian,    Thursday 2 July 2009
Article history
David Cameron has embarked on another major step in the modernisation of the Conservative party by offering a public apology for section 28, the notorious legislation which banned the "promotion" of homosexuality in schools.

In a gesture hailed by gay rights campaigners as "historic", Cameron condemned section 28 as "offensive to gay people" and predicted that a Conservative would become Britain's first openly gay prime minister.

The Tory leader, who voted against the repeal of section 28 as recently as 2003, reached out to the gay community on Tuesday night at a Tory fundraising event linked to Gay Pride this weekend.

"Yes, we may have sometimes been slow and, yes, we may have made mistakes, including Section 28, but the change has happened," Cameron said of the repeal of the legislation originally passed in 1988 when Margaret Thatcher was prime minister.

In remarks reported by the Pink Paper, he admitted that he did not have a "perfect record" on gay rights, a reference to his decision in 2003 to vote for the retention of section 28. But he added: "It does give me great pride to be standing here to celebrate Gay Pride and all you have achieved.

"If five years ago we had a Conservative and Gay Pride party, I don't think many gay people would have come or many Conservatives would have come. In wanting to make the party representative of the country, I think we have made some real progress.

"If we do win the next election, instead of being a white middle class middle-aged party, we will be far more diverse. The Conservatives had the first woman prime minister and we are bound to have the first black prime minister and the first gay prime minister."

Ben Summerskill, the chief executive of Stonewall, described Cameron's speech as "historic". He said: "We have heard the leader of the Conservative party say the words 'section 28' and 'sorry'."

Cameron's apology shows how far the Tory party has moved in the past decade. Shaun Woodward, now Northern Ireland secretary, defected to Labour after he was sacked from the Tory frontbench by William Hague in 2000 for rebelling against the party's support for section 28.

Cameron, who succeeded Woodward as MP for Witney at the 2001 general election, mocked his opposition to section 28. "Did Mr Woodward order a survey of local opinion about the issue that triggered his resignation – clause 28 and the promotion of homosexuality in schools?" Cameron wrote in a letter to the Daily Telegraph in September 2000.

The future Tory leader voted to retain Section 28 in the 2003 Commons vote which led to its abolition. Cameron, whose wife Samantha has long opposed section 28, later admitted that this was a mistake.

In his first conference speech as Tory leader, three years later in 2006, Cameron showed how he had moved on in what he called a "journey". He said: "There's something special about marriage. Pledging yourself to another means doing something brave and important ... You are making a commitment.

"And by the way, it means something whether you're a man and a woman, a woman and a woman or a man and another man. That's why we were right to support civil partnerships, and I'm proud of that."

However as recently as last year, Cameron alarmed gay and lesbian campaigners by voting to restrict access for lesbian couples hoping to conceive children through in vitro fertilisation (IVF).

To the surprise of Tory modernisers he supported a Commons amendment by the former Conservative leader Iain Duncan Smith that would have strengthened existing laws to make IVF clinics consider the "need for a father and a mother" before allowing women to begin fertility treatment. The amendment was defeated.

Anyone buying that?  :lol:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on July 03, 2009, 12:02:12 PM
well I think there would be more (in NA at least are Tories religious bigots in UK?)  queer conservatives if conservatives these days were the old school fiscal conservatives of yore as opposed to the self righteous skygod worshipers they are now.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on July 03, 2009, 12:11:02 PM
Gay sex decriminalized in Delhi. Only in one city? Does this mean that India's newest "ghetto" will have decent property values as all of India's gays move to Delhi?


Quote
Court decriminalizes gay sex in Indian capital

By MUNEEZA NAQVI – 1 day ago

NEW DELHI (AP) — New Delhi's gay community celebrated a landmark court ruling Thursday that decriminalizes homosexuality — a decision that could end widespread police harassment and be a harbinger for gradual acceptance for homosexuals across this deeply conservative country.

The Delhi High Court ruled that treating consensual gay sex between adults as a crime is a violation of fundamental rights protected by India's constitution. The ruling, the first of its kind in India, is not binding outside New Delhi.

Hours after the ruling was issued dozens of members of New Delhi's gay community — some with rainbows painted on their faces and others holding signs that read "Queer and loving it" — gathered in the heart of the capital to celebrate.

"I'm so excited and I haven't been able to process the news yet," said Anjali Gopalan, the executive director of the Naz Foundation (India) Trust, the sexual health organization that filed the petition with the court.

"We've finally entered the 21st century."

But some religious leaders quickly criticized the ruling. "This Western culture cannot be permitted in our country," said Maulana Khalid Rashid Farangi Mahali, a leading Muslim cleric in the northern city of Lucknow.

Sex between people of the same gender has been illegal in India since a British colonial era law was issued in the 1860s classifying it as "against the order of nature." According to the law, gay sex is punishable by 10 years in prison.

While actual criminal prosecutions are few, the law frequently has been used to harass people. The court's verdict should protect New Delhi's gay community from criminal charges and police harassment.

"This legal remnant of British colonialism has been used to deprive people of their basic rights for too long," Scott Long, director of the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender (LGBT) Rights Program at Human Rights Watch, said in a statement. "This long-awaited decision testifies to the reach of democracy and rights in India."

The verdict came more than eight years after the New Delhi-based Naz Foundation filed its petition — not unusually long in India's notoriously clogged court system. The decision can still be challenged in India's Supreme Court.

The government has remained vague about its position on the law, and Law Minister M. Veerappa Moily said he would examine the high court's order before commenting.

"Our effort will be to try to see that the government does not appeal to the Supreme Court. There is a chance that others will go and appeal," Anand Grover, a member of a lawyers group involved in the case, said in Geneva.

While the ruling is not binding in India's other states, Tripti Tandon, a lawyer for the Naz Foundation, said she hoped it would have a "persuasive" effect on other courts.

Rights activists say the law, also popularly known as 377, or section 377 of the Indian Penal Code, sanctions discrimination and marginalizes the gay community. Health experts say the law discourages safe sex and has been a hurdle in fighting HIV and AIDS. Roughly 2.5 million Indians have HIV.

The U.N. agency UNAIDS welcomed the court ruling and said it would make it easier to reach homosexual men with programs to combat the spread of HIV.

Homosexuality is slowly gaining acceptance in some parts of India, especially in its big cities. Many bars have gay nights, and some high-profile Bollywood films have dealt with gay issues. The last two years have also seen large gay pride parades in New Delhi and other big cities such as Mumbai and Calcutta.

Still, being gay remains deeply taboo in most of the country, and a large number of homosexuals hide their sexual orientation from their friends and families.

Religious leaders in the capital and in other parts of India argue that gay sex should remain illegal and that open homosexuality is out of step with India's deeply held traditions.

"We are totally against such a practice as it is not our tradition or culture," said Puroshattam Narain Singh, an official of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, or World Hindu Council.

In New Delhi, Rev. Babu Joseph, a spokesman of the Roman Catholic church, told New Delhi Television that while homosexuals should not be treated as criminals, "at the same time we cannot afford to endorse homosexual behavior as normal and socially acceptable."

Still, rights activists hope that Thursday's ruling will send a message to the entire country.

"The symbolic value of this judgment is unmatched," said Arvind Narrain, another lawyer involved with the case. "It says lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgender people are citizens with equal rights."

Associated Press Writers Biswajeet Banerjee in Lucknow, India and Alexander G. Higgins in Geneva contributed to this story.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 03, 2009, 12:31:33 PM
Quote from: Grallon on July 02, 2009, 12:39:37 PM
When are american conservatives *not* freaking out about something or other?  We should speed them on their way to their god.  <_<
When are American liberals not freaking out about something?  That's what people at the political fringe do.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on July 03, 2009, 12:49:28 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on July 03, 2009, 12:11:02 PM
Gay sex decriminalized in Delhi. Only in one city? Does this mean that India's newest "ghetto" will have decent property values as all of India's gays move to Delhi?

Ey?
The BBC said it was the lot....I wonder what the situation is.
I guess this one does make more sense but still, dissapointing.


Quotewell I think there would be more (in NA at least are Tories religious bigots in UK?)  queer conservatives if conservatives these days were the old school fiscal conservatives of yore as opposed to the self righteous skygod worshipers they are now.
Old school Tories were, the main party these days though is totally secular.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on July 11, 2009, 04:25:11 AM
Dr King turning, spinning in his grave.

QuoteJuly 10, 2009
Marriage Equality Reverend Under Fire

A 50-year-old civil rights organization founded by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is seeking to oust the president of its Los Angeles chapter over his support of marriage equality in California, reports The New York Times.

The Atlanta-based Southern Christian Leadership Conference has threatened to remove the Reverend Eric Lee, who actively worked to prevent the passage of Proposition 8, the California ballot measure to ban same-sex marriage.

Lee told the Times that his work against Prop. 8 created tension with black clergy, but said he believes that banning same-sex marriage "is a clear violation of civil rights and I have to speak up on that."

In May, Lee received a call and two subsequent letters from the national board of directors of his organization threatening him with suspension or removal. The organization has a publicly neutral stance on the issue.

The local board of directors, who confirmed Lee knowing his stance on marriage equality, stand behind the reverend and his actions.

Lee says he sees failures in the leadership of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference; he told the Times, "Dr. King would be turning over in his grave right now."

http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid97484.asp
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on July 11, 2009, 09:41:21 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 11, 2009, 04:25:11 AM
Dr King turning, spinning in his grave.
Why?  King was black and Christian, and thus likely hated fags as well.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 11, 2009, 10:09:35 AM
Quote from: Neil on July 11, 2009, 09:41:21 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 11, 2009, 04:25:11 AM
Dr King turning, spinning in his grave.
Why?  King was black and Christian, and thus likely hated fags as well.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/293986.html (http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/293986.html)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on July 11, 2009, 10:16:29 AM
Quote from: Neil on July 11, 2009, 09:41:21 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 11, 2009, 04:25:11 AM
Dr King turning, spinning in his grave.
Why?  King was black and Christian, and thus likely hated fags as well.

Marjory the Trash Heap (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_luther_king) says:
QuoteThere are opposing views even within the King family — regarding the slain civil rights leader's religious and political views about homosexuals, lesbians, bisexuals and transgendered people. King's widow Coretta said publicly that she believed her husband would have supported gay rights. However, his daughter Bernice believed he would have been opposed to them.[178] The King Center includes discrimination, and lists homophobia as one of its examples, in its list of "The Triple Evils" that should be opposed.[179]
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on July 11, 2009, 10:34:45 AM
Coretta King was a very vocal opponent of anti-gay discrimination and homophobia. She has lent her support to several gay rights rallies and also campaigned in anti-HIV advocacy groups. I think her views are more representative of the (hypothetical) views of Dr King than those of their daughter.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on July 11, 2009, 12:08:16 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 11, 2009, 10:34:45 AM
Coretta King was a very vocal opponent of anti-gay discrimination and homophobia. She has lent her support to several gay rights rallies and also campaigned in anti-HIV advocacy groups. I think her views are more representative of the (hypothetical) views of Dr King than those of their daughter.
I dunno, that she has a vested interest in gay rights whereas the daughter doesn't would seem to point away from that.
Looking at how old the daughter is though she would have been only five when her dad died so it would seem there the wife would know better.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on July 12, 2009, 01:52:17 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 11, 2009, 10:34:45 AM
Coretta King was a very vocal opponent of anti-gay discrimination and homophobia. She has lent her support to several gay rights rallies and also campaigned in anti-HIV advocacy groups. I think her views are more representative of the (hypothetical) views of Dr King than those of their daughter.
How like a fag, to try and claim anyone and everyone he can.

Kill yourself today.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Ed Anger on July 12, 2009, 09:48:48 AM
Quote
Gay couple detained near Mormon plaza after kiss
AP

By ELIZABETH WHITE, Associated Press Writer Elizabeth White, Associated Press Writer – Fri Jul 10, 11:37 pm ET

SALT LAKE CITY – A gay couple say they were detained by security guards on a plaza owned by the Mormon church and later cited by police, claiming it stemmed from a kiss on the cheek.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said that the men became argumentative and refused to leave after being asked to stop their "inappropriate behavior." The men say they were targeted because they are gay.

Matt Aune said he and his partner, Derek Jones, were walking home from a concert nearby on Thursday night, cutting through the plaza near the Salt Lake City Mormon temple.

Aune, 28, said he gave Jones, 25, a hug and kiss and that the two were then approached by a security guard, who asked them to leave, telling them they were being inappropriate and that public displays of affection aren't allowed on the property. He said other guards arrived and the men were handcuffed.

"We asked what we were doing wrong," Aune told The Associated Press.

Church spokeswoman Kim Farah said in a statement Friday that the men were "politely asked to stop engaging in inappropriate behavior — just as any other couple would have been."

"They became argumentative and used profanity and refused to leave the property," she said. The church did not immediately respond to a request for more comment.

Police later arrived and both men were cited with misdemeanor trespassing, Salt Lake City Police Sgt. Robin Snyder said.

"It doesn't matter what they were asked to leave for," Snyder said. "If they are asked to leave and don't they are ... trespassing."

The church has been the target of protests over its support of a ban on gay marriage in California.

*pokes thread*
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on July 12, 2009, 09:51:45 AM
Fucking faggots.  What a bunch of assholes.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on July 12, 2009, 09:52:31 AM
I hope they sue the Mormon church.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on July 12, 2009, 09:56:18 AM
Quote from: Martinus on July 12, 2009, 09:52:31 AM
I hope they sue the Mormon church.
They'll probably try, but they'll fail.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on July 12, 2009, 09:33:59 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 11, 2009, 10:34:45 AM
Coretta King was a very vocal opponent of anti-gay discrimination and homophobia. She has lent her support to several gay rights rallies and also campaigned in anti-HIV advocacy groups. I think her views are more representative of the (hypothetical) views of Dr King than those of their daughter.

He certainly was a big supporter of Bayard Rustin for somebody who didn't like homosexuals.

QuoteThe Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said that the men became argumentative and refused to leave after being asked to stop their "inappropriate behavior." The men say they were targeted because they are gay.
You think?  The Mormons are a bunch of hateful assholes anyway.  I predict that at some point in the future they will back track on the gay thing just like they did with the racist thing. if it ever becomes embarrasing.  The Mormon God changes his mind alot.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on July 13, 2009, 10:23:16 AM
QuoteKiss In Held to Protest LDS Church
By Julie Bolcer

Dozens of gay couples held a kiss in at Temple Square in Salt Lake City on Sunday to protest the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for detaining a gay couple who kissed on church property, reports KTSU-TV in the following video.

During the incident, first reported by the Salt Lake Tribune, Matt Aune and Derek Jones say that LDS church security detained them on Thursday and Salt Lake City police cited them for trespassing after they kissed on the check on Main Street Plaza. The property was sold to the Church by the city in the late 90s, although many couples continue to pose affectionately for photos on the space.

Aune, 28, and Jones, 25, told the newspaper that they were walking back to their nearby home in the evening when they crossed the plaza holding hands, then stopped to kiss on the cheek. Several security guards arrived and told the couple that public displays of affection are not allowed on church property.

When Aune and Jones protested, they were handcuffed, and police were called. Aune and Jones were banned from LDS Church headquarters campus for six months.

Kim Farah, a spokeswoman for the LDS Church, provided a written statement to the Salt Lake Tribune saying that the detainment had nothing to do with Aune and Jones being gay.

Aune and Jones were "asked to stop engaging in inappropriate behavior just as any other couple would have been. They became argumentative and used profanity and refused to leave the property. They were arrested and then given a citation for criminal trespass by SLPD," said the LDS Church.

http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid97881.asp
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on July 13, 2009, 10:42:28 AM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on July 03, 2009, 12:02:12 PM
well I think there would be more (in NA at least are Tories religious bigots in UK?)  queer conservatives if conservatives these days were the old school fiscal conservatives of yore as opposed to the self righteous skygod worshipers they are now.
To be fair to the Tories two members of the shadow cabinet are gay (and civilly unioned).  Both are also fiercely incompetent, blundering and have rumours of a bit of expense sleaze about them.  They've more top gay politicians than Labour or Lib Dems.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on July 13, 2009, 12:20:43 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 13, 2009, 10:42:28 AM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on July 03, 2009, 12:02:12 PM
well I think there would be more (in NA at least are Tories religious bigots in UK?)  queer conservatives if conservatives these days were the old school fiscal conservatives of yore as opposed to the self righteous skygod worshipers they are now.
To be fair to the Tories two members of the shadow cabinet are gay (and civilly unioned).  Both are also fiercely incompetent, blundering and have rumours of a bit of expense sleaze about them.  They've more top gay politicians than Labour or Lib Dems.

heh. figures.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on July 13, 2009, 06:41:31 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 13, 2009, 10:42:28 AM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on July 03, 2009, 12:02:12 PM
well I think there would be more (in NA at least are Tories religious bigots in UK?)  queer conservatives if conservatives these days were the old school fiscal conservatives of yore as opposed to the self righteous skygod worshipers they are now.
To be fair to the Tories two members of the shadow cabinet are gay (and civilly unioned).  Both are also fiercely incompetent, blundering and have rumours of a bit of expense sleaze about them.  They've more top gay politicians than Labour or Lib Dems.

Noone can rival the Gay Sith Master: Lord Mandelson. :ph34r:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on July 13, 2009, 06:44:28 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 13, 2009, 06:41:31 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 13, 2009, 10:42:28 AM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on July 03, 2009, 12:02:12 PM
well I think there would be more (in NA at least are Tories religious bigots in UK?)  queer conservatives if conservatives these days were the old school fiscal conservatives of yore as opposed to the self righteous skygod worshipers they are now.
To be fair to the Tories two members of the shadow cabinet are gay (and civilly unioned).  Both are also fiercely incompetent, blundering and have rumours of a bit of expense sleaze about them.  They've more top gay politicians than Labour or Lib Dems.

Noone can rival the Gay Sith Master: Lord Mandelson. :ph34r:
Indeed.  Politically he's probably the most powerful man in the country :wub:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.static.flickr.com%2F3229%2F2297272408_73e6d61eaa.jpg&hash=aa249a3735eb8a859b8a6603b8c35aa5d28f87b1)

And I'm a huge fan of his slightly catty sense of humour since he's come back from Brussels a human being.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on July 13, 2009, 07:02:24 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 12, 2009, 09:33:59 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 11, 2009, 10:34:45 AM
Coretta King was a very vocal opponent of anti-gay discrimination and homophobia. She has lent her support to several gay rights rallies and also campaigned in anti-HIV advocacy groups. I think her views are more representative of the (hypothetical) views of Dr King than those of their daughter.

He certainly was a big supporter of Bayard Rustin for somebody who didn't like homosexuals.

QuoteThe Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said that the men became argumentative and refused to leave after being asked to stop their "inappropriate behavior." The men say they were targeted because they are gay.
You think?  The Mormons are a bunch of hateful assholes anyway.  I predict that at some point in the future they will back track on the gay thing just like they did with the racist thing. if it ever becomes embarrasing.  The Mormon God changes his mind alot.
Fucking fags think that the rules don't apply to them.  The sooner we kill them all, the better.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Jos Theelen on July 14, 2009, 09:05:04 AM
harry and pepper broke up  :(

QuoteSAN FRANCISCO  — Someone alert Perez Hilton: Harry and Pepper, the San Francisco Zoo's long-term same-sex penguin couple, have split up. And you might say there's a disreputable dame to blame.

The couple's relationship began in 2003 and the breakup came as a shock to the couple's zookeepers because Harry and Pepper, both Magellanic penguins, had long seemed one of the zoo's happiest avian partnerships, according to zookeeper Anthony Brown.

The two black-and-white birds paired off when Harry, whom Brown described as outgoing, befriended Pepper, an introvert who sticks mostly to his burrow. At the time, the two were adolescents and everyone assumed they were just friends.

But soon they were nesting together. Harry would gather grass and bring it home to Pepper, who would arrange it tidily in their burrow, Brown said. Single females would come around, but both birds never seemed interested.

Last year, the pair was allowed to incubate and hatch an egg another penguin had laid.

"Of all of the parents that year, they were the best," Brown said. "They took very good care of their chick. He ended up being the largest chick on the island."

One could say that all seemed to be going swimmingly with Harry and Pepper.

Enter the recently widowed Linda, who has long had a reputation of sorts, according to Brown.

Several years ago, she left her longtime companion and moved in with much older Fig just hours after Fig's partner passed away, Brown said.

"That was the fastest we'd ever seen penguins move on," he said. "To be completely anthropomorphizing, Linda seems conniving. She's got her plan. I don't think she was wanting to be a single girl for too long."

This year, within weeks of Fig passing away in winter, Harry was seen in Fig's old burrow spending time with Linda, Brown said.

Then one day, Harry and Linda approached Pepper's pen and confronted Pepper. Harry began attacking Pepper violently and the three ultimately had to be separated, Brown said.

Harry and Linda successfully nested this year and eventually Pepper was returned to the penguin exhibit from a bachelor pad at the Avian Conservation Center, where he quietly took up his old residence. Zookeepers and fans are waiting with bated breath to see what might happen next.

"That's the big question," Brown said. "It's molting season in late July and early August, and around that time we see couples getting shaken up. It'll be interesting to see if Harry spends any of that time with Pepper. We'll have to wait and see."
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on July 14, 2009, 09:12:45 AM
Quote from: Jos Theelen on July 14, 2009, 09:05:04 AM
harry and pepper broke up  :(

Not to worry Penguins change mates a few times in their lives.  They can go gay again in the future.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: PDH on July 14, 2009, 09:27:18 AM
OMG, gay can be cured by WOMEN!
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on July 14, 2009, 09:29:20 AM
Quote from: PDH on July 14, 2009, 09:27:18 AM
OMG, gay can be cured by WOMEN!

I think the Gay Penguins were so shocked they ended up hatching an egg anyway one of them was all like 'ok fuck this I might as well officially be a breeder now.'
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on July 14, 2009, 09:30:10 AM
Fucking bisexuals.  <_<
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on July 14, 2009, 12:02:47 PM
Quote from: Martinus on July 14, 2009, 09:30:10 AM
Fucking bisexuals.  <_<

Bah. Used to be all gays were Bi-sexual. (married, breeding for King and Country, fucking who they want on the side. Fags ruined it for the rest of us.)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on July 14, 2009, 12:16:50 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on July 14, 2009, 12:02:47 PM
Bah. Used to be all gays were Bi-sexual. (married, breeding for King and Country, fucking who they want on the side. Fags ruined it for the rest of us.)

Marty is not a patriot :(
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on July 14, 2009, 12:21:32 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on July 14, 2009, 12:02:47 PM
Bah. Used to be all gays were Bi-sexual. (married, breeding for King and Country, fucking who they want on the side. Fags ruined it for the rest of us.)

And they were horrible people, subjecting poor women to their unclean habits.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on July 14, 2009, 12:52:16 PM
Anyway, I hope Perez Hilton runs that gay-hating guy-stealing bitch down. Who does she think she is? Liza Minelli?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on July 14, 2009, 12:55:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 14, 2009, 12:21:32 PM
And they were horrible people, subjecting poor women to their unclean habits.

Yeah!  That is a straight man's job!
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on July 14, 2009, 01:06:58 PM
I don't think people should mention that horrible gay guy's name.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on July 14, 2009, 01:19:01 PM
Yet another victory for heterosexuality.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on July 15, 2009, 02:45:12 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/6529632.html

QuoteFort Worth mayor apologizes for raid on gay bar
By ANGELA K. BROWN Associated Press Writer © 2009 The Associated Press
July 14, 2009, 11:38PM

FORT WORTH, Texas — Mayor Mike Moncrief apologized for a raid on a gay bar that sparked claims of brutality and procedure violations after several members of a gay rights group were escorted out of a City Council meeting Tuesday.
About 250 people packed council chambers and another 150 watched on televisions in the hallway or overflow rooms as officials briefly discussed the June 28 joint raid by the Texas Alcohol Beverage Commission and the Fort Worth Police Department at the Rainbow Lounge, which left one man hospitalized with a serious head injury.


Moncrief told the meeting neither the TABC nor police had finished investigations into the raid, which initially had been called a routine license inspection. But the mayor said he has asked the U.S. Attorney's Office to review the department's findings.

Someone in the audience then called out for an apology.

"If you want an apology from the mayor of Fort Worth: I am sorry about what happened in Fort Worth," Moncrief said, as the crowd erupted in applause and stood.

Seven members of a gay rights group were escorted out of the building earlier after demanding council members let them immediately comment on the raid.

Two council members had called for independent investigations into the raid, after which Moncrief started to discuss other items on the meeting agenda. Blake Wilkinson, founder of Queer LiberAction, interrupted and said those who wanted to comment on the raid shouldn't have to wait. Moncrief tried to explain that public comments are always last on the agenda.

Wilkinson and another person kept arguing with the mayor, and several people in the hallway started shouting, "Hear us now!" "Hear us now!" Wilkinson and six others were then led out of the building.

But Moncrief changed his mind nearly three hours later and allowed people to speak about the Rainbow Lounge issue after the council had addressed only a few of the numerous agenda items.

Tom Anable told the meeting that on the night of the raid he saw an agent slam one man into a pool table after the man said he was drinking water and shouldn't be arrested.

Anable said he also saw a TABC agent slam Chad Gibson, 26, into a wall. But Anable said Gibson — who later was hospitalized with a serious head injury — never groped the agent, as police have alleged.

"I fled in fear," Anable said.

Sarah Bryant fought back tears as she said she had seen fights at bars before, but that night at Rainbow Lounge "was the first time that I was really afraid of the police." Kevin Crook said the incident had created such widespread negative publicity that it paints the city as "one remaining bastion of discrimination."

Councilman Sal Espino said the incident has led to a "crisis" in the community, "but we can overcome that."
Earlier Tuesday, Police Chief Jeff Halstead said he had appointed Officer Sara Straten as a liaison to the gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community.

Straten said her main goal is to improve communication. She said she would meet with residents to "try to make things better" but did not say if she would lead diversity and cultural training for officers, an initiative Halstead has said the department would start.

"It's a huge job, but it's doable," Straten said of her new position.

Yet another victory for homosexuality!
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on July 15, 2009, 07:07:29 AM
Not really.  Some guy who had nothing to do with the raids is sorry about them, and is covering his ass to avoid the inevitable lawsuit.  In the meantime, the Texas liquor loons are free to rough up gays in the future.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on July 15, 2009, 07:56:57 AM
QuoteMayor Mike Moncrief apologized for a raid on a gay bar that sparked claims of brutality and procedure violations after several members of a gay rights group were escorted out of a City Council meeting Tuesday

Well that is the least he can do.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on July 15, 2009, 12:24:50 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 14, 2009, 12:21:32 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on July 14, 2009, 12:02:47 PM
Bah. Used to be all gays were Bi-sexual. (married, breeding for King and Country, fucking who they want on the side. Fags ruined it for the rest of us.)

And they were horrible people, subjecting poor women to their unclean habits.

Really? ALL of them. Interesting. :rolleyes:

there are many such jerks of all sexual orientations. Not some exclusive Bi thing.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on July 15, 2009, 12:36:29 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on July 15, 2009, 12:24:50 PM
Really? ALL of them. Interesting. :rolleyes:

there are many such jerks of all sexual orientations. Not some exclusive Bi thing.

Well I'm sure there were a few cases where the woman was into that. But on the whole? Sure.  Also, I'm glad I didn't say that bisexual people were the only jerks! :o
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on July 15, 2009, 12:36:40 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on July 15, 2009, 12:24:50 PM
Really? ALL of them. Interesting. :rolleyes:

there are many such jerks of all sexual orientations. Not some exclusive Bi thing.

Oh I thought that was a 'boys are gross' thing in general.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on July 15, 2009, 12:37:49 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 15, 2009, 12:36:40 PM
Oh I thought that was a 'boys are gross' thing in general.

No, it was more of a men doing it with men while having a wife (:x) kind of thing.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on July 16, 2009, 10:55:47 AM
More news on the Texas gay bar raid. Nothing really interesting here, except for the bolded part, which I thought was pretty hilarious:

QuoteJuly 16, 2009
Reason for Texas Bar Raid Revealed
By Julie Bolcer

Police records indicate that the raid on a gay bar in Fort Worth on June 28 was prompted by a man's arrest for public intoxication two days earlier, according to WFAA-TV.

Video from a cruiser shows the man being arrested after officers saw him leaving the Rainbow Lounge very intoxicated earlier in the evening. Later that weekend, Fort Worth police officer and agents from the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission returned to the establishment for what they called a routine bar check.

In addition, police recordings reveal that on the night of the raid, an officer called for help after he went inside the Rainbow Lounge. His call was prompted by a bar patron who blew a kiss at the officer.

One bar patron, Chad Gibson, received a serious head injury and was hospitalized because of the raid. LGBT activists are calling for an independent investigation.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on July 17, 2009, 07:37:46 AM
QuoteACLU backs religious hate group
Chad Groening - OneNewsNow - 7/15/2009 5:30:00 AM

An organization that supports American troops and their families is appalled that the American Civil Liberties Union has joined the controversial Westboro Baptist Church in challenging a Missouri community's ordinance that limits the access of funeral protesters.

Last week, the ACLU filed a federal lawsuit against the city of Maplewood, claiming that its ordinance restricting access to military funerals is unconstitutional. The suit is part of a broader effort by the ACLU to go after state and local laws that have been enacted in order to deal with the activities of Fred Phelps and his followers who began protesting at funerals of homosexuals but then expanded those protests to soldiers' funerals, carrying signs such as "Thank God for dead soldiers."

Westboro members believe that America is being punished with the deaths of soldiers and others for its "tolerance" of homosexuality. Merrilee Carlson, president of Families United For Our Troops and Their Mission, says these ordinances are quite reasonable.

"They have created laws in order to put a protective corridor around the families at the time of their funeral," she explains. "And what this corridor does not do is take away the freedom of speech of these people in order to say the things that they do."

Carlson says it is amazing that the ACLU would come to the aid of a group that preaches hate.

"The ACLU has jumped on the bandwagon with these people who viciously go to these funerals and protest and say horrible things to these families," she adds. "And they are supporting these people who say that they have absolutely the right to stand right in front of these people and inflict this harm."

Free-speech rights must come with responsibility, Carlson concludes.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=602490
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on July 17, 2009, 07:42:02 AM
I am not really sure how I feel about this.  Why are such ordinances necessary?  Surely they can use current laws to keep these freaks from tresspasing on private property (or military property if these funerals are being held in a military cemetary of some sort) without having to pass these questionable ordinances.

After all nothing is stopping people from counter-demonstrating the freaks like we do the KKK and Nazis and so forth.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on July 17, 2009, 07:44:47 AM
Well, it's not like the common man could have any more contempt for the ACLU, so they might as well stand on principle.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on July 17, 2009, 07:46:41 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 17, 2009, 07:42:02 AM
I am not really sure how I feel about this.  Why are such ordinances necessary?  Surely they can use current laws to keep these freaks from tresspasing on private property (or military property if these funerals are being held in a military cemetary of some sort) without having to pass these questionable ordinances.

After all nothing is stopping people from counter-demonstrating the freaks like we do the KKK and Nazis and so forth.
At a funeral?

You social action types are total scum.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: citizen k on July 17, 2009, 08:03:26 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 17, 2009, 07:42:02 AM
I am not really sure how I feel about this.  Why are such ordinances necessary?  Surely they can use current laws to keep these freaks from tresspasing on private property (or military property if these funerals are being held in a military cemetary of some sort) without having to pass these questionable ordinances.

After all nothing is stopping people from counter-demonstrating the freaks like we do the KKK and Nazis and so forth.

Aren't patriotic biker groups already escorting the funerals and shielding the mourners/counterdemonstrating?

Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on July 17, 2009, 08:04:36 AM
Quote from: citizen k on July 17, 2009, 08:03:26 AM
Aren't patriotic biker groups already escorting the funerals and shielding the mourners/counterdemonstrating?

That would not surprise me. :)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on July 17, 2009, 08:21:21 AM
Quote from: citizen k on July 17, 2009, 08:03:26 AM
Quote from: Valmy on July 17, 2009, 07:42:02 AM
I am not really sure how I feel about this.  Why are such ordinances necessary?  Surely they can use current laws to keep these freaks from tresspasing on private property (or military property if these funerals are being held in a military cemetary of some sort) without having to pass these questionable ordinances.

After all nothing is stopping people from counter-demonstrating the freaks like we do the KKK and Nazis and so forth.

Aren't patriotic biker groups already escorting the funerals and shielding the mourners/counterdemonstrating?
Yeah.  Hell's Angels are offering to escort any funeral :lol:

I think it's particularly smart because it probably causes difficulties for the fundies.  Who do they protest against then?  Fags or 'Hell's Angels'?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on July 17, 2009, 08:37:42 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 17, 2009, 08:21:21 AM
Who do they protest against then?  Fags or 'Hell's Angels'?

[Bruno]Ist zer a difference?[/Bruno]
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: viper37 on August 06, 2009, 07:02:06 PM
Even more opportunities for religious fundies in airport now. 
Marty & Grallon are gonna be happy:  Homosexuality can not be cured.

Article (http://www.cyberpresse.ca/vivre/societe-et-sexualite/200908/06/01-890339-homosexualite-des-psychologues-contre-la-therapie-reparatrice.php)
Highlights:I'm really, really surprised you can't change genetically induced behavior...  ;)


EDIT:
Some english text about it on a gay site:
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-13587.html (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-13587.html)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: derspiess on August 06, 2009, 07:18:50 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 06, 2009, 07:02:06 PM
Even more opportunities for religious fundies in airport now. 
Marty & Grallon are gonna be happy:  Homosexuality can not be cured.

Article (http://www.cyberpresse.ca/vivre/societe-et-sexualite/200908/06/01-890339-homosexualite-des-psychologues-contre-la-therapie-reparatrice.php)
Highlights:

  • Ex-gay therapy does not work according to APA
  • Such therapies can lead to suicidal tendancies, depression, impotence, other types of disorders and even worst ;) : most participants quit early on.
  • At best, participants have learned to ignore their homosexual tendancies and abstain from sex, but not studies says how long it lasted.
I'm really, really surprised you can't change genetically induced behavior...  ;)


EDIT:
Some english text about it on a gay site:
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-13587.html (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-13587.html)

Interesting take on it.  IMO, Marty & Grallon would be pissed that the APA is no longer insisting that psychiatrists push gay head-cases to embrace their homosexuality, and is being flexible enough to allow that some people may genuinely want to curtail gay feelings/impulses because it impedes on things like church, family, etc. that are more important to them.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on August 06, 2009, 07:23:17 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 06, 2009, 07:02:06 PM
Such therapies can lead to suicidal tendancies, depression, impotence, other types of disorders and even worst ;) :
What's the problem?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 06, 2009, 08:04:50 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 06, 2009, 07:18:50 PM
IMO, Marty & Grallon would be pissed that the APA is no longer insisting that psychiatrists push gay head-cases to embrace their homosexuality, and is being flexible enough to allow that some people may genuinely want to curtail gay feelings/impulses because it impedes on things like church, family, etc. that are more important to them.
I, on the other hand, think that's fine. People should be able to choose what makes them happy. :)

@Viper - Yeah I made a thread on this.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on August 06, 2009, 09:43:28 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 06, 2009, 07:18:50 PM
and is being flexible enough to allow that some people may genuinely want to curtail gay feelings/impulses because it impedes on things like church, family, etc. that are more important to them.

I find it rather pathetic that being gay really impedes those things but then I don't go to a false church and don't have a shitty family unlike those people.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 06, 2009, 09:50:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 06, 2009, 09:43:28 PM
I find it rather pathetic that being gay really impedes those things but then I don't go to a false church and don't have a shitty family unlike those people.

Aren't you Catholic?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on August 06, 2009, 09:58:08 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 06, 2009, 09:50:05 PM
Aren't you Catholic?

No

But my grandmother is.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: derspiess on August 06, 2009, 11:46:58 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 06, 2009, 09:43:28 PM
I find it rather pathetic that being gay really impedes those things but then I don't go to a false church and don't have a shitty family unlike those people.

Then that's your problem :D
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on August 07, 2009, 07:39:13 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 06, 2009, 11:46:58 PM
Then that's your problem :D

:P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 07, 2009, 08:53:38 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 06, 2009, 07:18:50 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 06, 2009, 07:02:06 PM
Even more opportunities for religious fundies in airport now. 
Marty & Grallon are gonna be happy:  Homosexuality can not be cured.

Article (http://www.cyberpresse.ca/vivre/societe-et-sexualite/200908/06/01-890339-homosexualite-des-psychologues-contre-la-therapie-reparatrice.php)
Highlights:

  • Ex-gay therapy does not work according to APA
  • Such therapies can lead to suicidal tendancies, depression, impotence, other types of disorders and even worst ;) : most participants quit early on.
  • At best, participants have learned to ignore their homosexual tendancies and abstain from sex, but not studies says how long it lasted.
I'm really, really surprised you can't change genetically induced behavior...  ;)


EDIT:
Some english text about it on a gay site:
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-13587.html (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-13587.html)

Interesting take on it.  IMO, Marty & Grallon would be pissed that the APA is no longer insisting that psychiatrists push gay head-cases to embrace their homosexuality, and is being flexible enough to allow that some people may genuinely want to curtail gay feelings/impulses because it impedes on things like church, family, etc. that are more important to them.

Not really - after all, it's the same as with heterosexuality - the churches and families expect people to curtail their impulses, e.g. when it comes to premarital sex, celibacy of priests and whatnot.

People make such choices all the time - everybody is free to fuck themselves up however they like.

What APA is saying here, however, is that you can't be misinforming people, e.g. by claiming that you can "cure gay".

And they are NOT saying you can curtail gay feelings, but that you can ignore them. That doesn't make them any different from any other sexual impulses.

So, sorry but your trolling failed.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 07, 2009, 08:58:33 AM
And for the record, in case you misunderstood what they are saying, if you ignore your gay feelings, it doesn't mean you will create some sort of heterosexual feelings as a result. So yeah, if people want to live in a forced celibacy, despite being sexually non-apathetic, it's their choice. You can also live without ever taking a shower or reading a book.

Fortunately, while many gay and lesbian people who are raised in fundamentalist homes go through a period of denial and forced celibacy, most eventually abandon their retarded creeds and find happiness instead. Those who don't, go on to become catholic priests.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: derspiess on August 07, 2009, 10:04:43 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 07, 2009, 08:58:33 AM
And for the record, in case you misunderstood what they are saying, if you ignore your gay feelings, it doesn't mean you will create some sort of heterosexual feelings as a result. So yeah, if people want to live in a forced celibacy, despite being sexually non-apathetic, it's their choice. You can also live without ever taking a shower or reading a book.

I like how you pretend it doesn't bother you & then you equate it with not bathing or being able to read :D

QuoteFortunately, while many gay and lesbian people who are raised in fundamentalist homes go through a period of denial and forced celibacy, most eventually abandon their retarded creeds and find happiness instead. Those who don't, go on to become catholic priests.

Doesn't occur to you that some folks might actually value their family or church over sex, and therefore be happier not living a gay lifestyle in spite of what sexual inclinations they might have?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on August 07, 2009, 10:07:41 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 07, 2009, 10:04:43 AM
Doesn't occur to you that some folks might actually value their family or church over sex, and therefore be happier not living a gay lifestyle in spite of what sexual inclinations they might have?

He did say most Spicey.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 07, 2009, 11:15:59 AM
I noticed in the gay psych thread on p'dox that there are a lot of gays there. They should come here!
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Faeelin on August 07, 2009, 11:41:13 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 07, 2009, 11:15:59 AM
I noticed in the gay psych thread on p'dox that there are a lot of gays there. They should come here!

Nah, invite the Catholics. Fahdiz will suck the heart and soul out of their faith in two weeks.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 07, 2009, 11:46:45 AM
Quote from: Faeelin on August 07, 2009, 11:41:13 AM
Nah, invite the Catholics. Fahdiz will suck the heart and soul out of their faith in two weeks.

<_<

I think we could benefit from some new gay voices (Marty's is rather stale).
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: viper37 on August 07, 2009, 11:51:18 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 06, 2009, 08:04:50 PM
@Viper - Yeah I made a thread on this.
sorry, I search for Marty's latest posts and didn't find it, so I assumed it had gone unnoticed :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: derspiess on August 07, 2009, 11:54:49 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 07, 2009, 11:46:45 AM
Quote from: Faeelin on August 07, 2009, 11:41:13 AM
Nah, invite the Catholics. Fahdiz will suck the heart and soul out of their faith in two weeks.

<_<

I think we could benefit from some new gay voices (Marty's is rather stale).

Yeah, bring more lawyers & Swedes while you're at it, will ya?  :mellow:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 07, 2009, 11:56:56 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 07, 2009, 11:54:49 AM
Yeah, bring more lawyers & Swedes while you're at it, will ya?  :mellow:

Maybe a gay Swedish lawyer?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on August 07, 2009, 11:56:58 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 07, 2009, 11:54:49 AM
Yeah, bring more lawyers & Swedes while you're at it, will ya?  :mellow:

We are starting to run short on Scandanavians these days.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: HVC on August 07, 2009, 11:57:33 AM
wrong thread, lol
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: viper37 on August 07, 2009, 11:58:06 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 07, 2009, 08:53:38 AM
What APA is saying here, however, is that you can't be misinforming people, e.g. by claiming that you can "cure gay".
it's not what they're saying.
They're saying there's no psychological treatment for "gayness", because it's not a mental illness (wich has been proven in the 70s, IIRC).

It does not say there can never be any kind of gene therapy or "magic pill" to change sexual behavior. 
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on August 07, 2009, 11:59:14 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 07, 2009, 10:04:43 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 07, 2009, 08:58:33 AM
And for the record, in case you misunderstood what they are saying, if you ignore your gay feelings, it doesn't mean you will create some sort of heterosexual feelings as a result. So yeah, if people want to live in a forced celibacy, despite being sexually non-apathetic, it's their choice. You can also live without ever taking a shower or reading a book.

I like how you pretend it doesn't bother you & then you equate it with not bathing or being able to read :D

QuoteFortunately, while many gay and lesbian people who are raised in fundamentalist homes go through a period of denial and forced celibacy, most eventually abandon their retarded creeds and find happiness instead. Those who don't, go on to become catholic priests.

Doesn't occur to you that some folks might actually value their family or church over sex, and therefore be happier not living a gay lifestyle in spite of what sexual inclinations they might have?

meh... lots of people are unhappy living the lifestyle they feel they should, or even the one they really want. Life sucks sometimes, no matter what your creed, orientation, or five year plan. :contract:

Most of the so-called "cured" people you see on TV look like they are living a lie, you can feel their self loathing through the TV screen, it's that palpable.

But whatever, the TV hosts probably choose folks who give off that vibe for ratings.

If you can be reasonably live a lie, and it's less stressful than the truth, sometimes it's the best you can do. again life sucks, often.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 07, 2009, 12:00:23 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 07, 2009, 11:54:49 AM
Yeah, bring more lawyers & Swedes while you're at it, will ya?  :mellow:

I don't have a gift for PR, so I doubt I'll be bringing anyone over.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: viper37 on August 07, 2009, 12:01:18 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 07, 2009, 11:15:59 AM
I noticed in the gay psych thread on p'dox that there are a lot of gays there. They should come here!

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 07, 2009, 11:56:56 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 07, 2009, 11:54:49 AM
Yeah, bring more lawyers & Swedes while you're at it, will ya?  :mellow:

Maybe a gay Swedish lawyer?

Gays&lawyers we have a plenty.  However, expatriated neo-nazi Swedes, we have only one.  We need more.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 07, 2009, 12:03:45 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 07, 2009, 12:01:18 PM
However, expatriated neo-nazi Swedes, we have only one.  We need more.

I've no desire to hangout with said individuals.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: derspiess on August 07, 2009, 12:20:22 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 07, 2009, 11:56:56 AM
Maybe a gay Swedish lawyer?

Only if he's Jewish :contract:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 07, 2009, 12:22:00 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 07, 2009, 12:20:22 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 07, 2009, 11:56:56 AM
Maybe a gay Swedish lawyer?

Only if he's Jewish :contract:

I thought Slargos killed all the Jews in Sweden?  :huh:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on August 07, 2009, 12:22:04 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 07, 2009, 12:20:22 PM
Only if he's Jewish :contract:

A gay Swedish Jewish lawyer...my god it is like the platonic languish poster!
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: derspiess on August 07, 2009, 12:22:19 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 07, 2009, 12:03:45 PM
I've no desire to hangout with said individuals.

Slargos is fun :)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 08, 2009, 03:25:01 AM
Quote from: viper37 on August 07, 2009, 11:58:06 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 07, 2009, 08:53:38 AM
What APA is saying here, however, is that you can't be misinforming people, e.g. by claiming that you can "cure gay".
it's not what they're saying.
They're saying there's no psychological treatment for "gayness", because it's not a mental illness (wich has been proven in the 70s, IIRC).

It does not say there can never be any kind of gene therapy or "magic pill" to change sexual behavior.

Well, considering what "P" stands for in "APA" I didn't assume they were talking about gene therapy or "magic pill", but a psychological/psychiatric therapy.

They said that homosexuality is not a mental disorder several decades ago.

Now they are saying that any therapies to turn you straight, as practiced by the self-called psychologists and psychiatrists, are bullshit and, effectively, constitute malpractice.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 08, 2009, 03:26:19 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 07, 2009, 12:22:04 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 07, 2009, 12:20:22 PM
Only if he's Jewish :contract:

A gay Swedish Jewish lawyer...my god it is like the platonic languish poster!

Only if he collects battleship models. :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on August 08, 2009, 07:05:09 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 07, 2009, 11:15:59 AM
I noticed in the gay psych thread on p'dox that there are a lot of gays there. They should come here!
This is not some kind of gay support forum.  Official forum policy is anti-faggot, and has been for some years now.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on August 08, 2009, 07:05:49 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 08, 2009, 03:26:19 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 07, 2009, 12:22:04 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 07, 2009, 12:20:22 PM
Only if he's Jewish :contract:

A gay Swedish Jewish lawyer...my god it is like the platonic languish poster!

Only if he collects battleship models. :P
Everybody collects battleship models.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Ed Anger on August 08, 2009, 07:35:35 AM
A story that is fun on many levels. It is layered.


QuoteOcean City fortune teller predicts 'hell' for gay customer

She should have seen it coming.

A Los Angeles man on vacation in Ocean City stopped for a Tarot card reading on the Boardwalk. But card reader June Mitchell's dire prediction about her client's hereafter led to a public dust-up, a police investigation and a petition drive, the Press of Atlantic City reports.

Mitchell told client Jamie Cohen, 22, who is gay, that he was going to hell. After hearing a little more from Mitchell, Cohen stormed out without paying her $20 fee, and that's when things got really ugly.
According to the news account, Cohen returned to retrieve his cell phone, which he had left under his chair. He says Mitchell ordered him out of the store and, in front of a crowd, used an anti-gay slur.

Mitchell admits using the word, but says Cohen called her a Gypsy; Cohen denies this. Mitchell also says she was upset by Cohen's reaction to the reading and the way he left without paying.

Mitchell says she had not meant to offend him.

"I wanted to make him happy," she says.

A born-again Christian, Mitchell says her religious doctrine opposes homosexuality.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 08, 2009, 10:31:33 AM
Quote from: Neil on August 08, 2009, 07:05:09 AM
This is not some kind of gay support forum.  Official forum policy is anti-faggot, and has been for some years now.

Who said it needs to be a support forum? :x

Anyway, p'dox gays are dead to me. I just saw the 'cute male' thread. <_<
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 08, 2009, 10:32:26 AM
Quote from: derspiess on August 07, 2009, 12:22:19 PM
Slargos is fun :)

There are always exceptions to the rule. :wub:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 08, 2009, 12:05:58 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 08, 2009, 07:35:35 AM
A story that is fun on many levels. It is layered.


QuoteOcean City fortune teller predicts 'hell' for gay customer

She should have seen it coming.

A Los Angeles man on vacation in Ocean City stopped for a Tarot card reading on the Boardwalk. But card reader June Mitchell's dire prediction about her client's hereafter led to a public dust-up, a police investigation and a petition drive, the Press of Atlantic City reports.

Mitchell told client Jamie Cohen, 22, who is gay, that he was going to hell. After hearing a little more from Mitchell, Cohen stormed out without paying her $20 fee, and that's when things got really ugly.
According to the news account, Cohen returned to retrieve his cell phone, which he had left under his chair. He says Mitchell ordered him out of the store and, in front of a crowd, used an anti-gay slur.

Mitchell admits using the word, but says Cohen called her a Gypsy; Cohen denies this. Mitchell also says she was upset by Cohen's reaction to the reading and the way he left without paying.

Mitchell says she had not meant to offend him.

"I wanted to make him happy," she says.

A born-again Christian, Mitchell says her religious doctrine opposes homosexuality.
:lol:

Doesn't born-again Christian doctrine oppose fortune-telling and sooth-saying, too?

I believe Leviticus bans it under the penalty of death.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 08, 2009, 12:10:01 PM
I think I may have found a market niche...

QuoteWoman Fined for Homophobia in Poland
By Julie Bolcer

In a decision gay rights advocates call groundbreaking for Poland, a judge in the northwest of the country fined a woman for using homophobic slurs to describe her gay male neighbor, reports the BBC.

The 44-year-old woman, identified as Anna S., was ordered to pay the equivalent of more than $5,000 for infringing the dignity of Ryszard Giersz (pictured) by repeatedly hurling verbal assaults at him and his partner, Tomasz, in public.

Lawyers for Giersz, 25, argued successfully that he endured constant hatred in the town of Wolin after Ms. S. began calling him a "pedal," a derogatory Polish term for a gay person that is the equivalent of "fag" or "queer" in the United States.

Polish LGBT rights campaigners hailed the decision and the case, which represented the first time a gay person pursued his or her rights so openly in the country's court system.

Ms. S., who maintains her innocence, may appeal the verdict.

http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid103833.asp

And to support garbon's view of Poland as a "poor pickings" country:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.advocate.com%2FuploadedImages%2FADVOCATE%2FEDITORIAL%2FNEWS%2F20090807%2FPOLANDX390.jpg&hash=dcc174daca6b43d36133945f9819bceb3835f3b1)

Edit: On a technical side, this isn't a fine, but damages paid to the plaintiff.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 08, 2009, 12:14:02 PM
Sad. Mart, sometime you have to come visit me in the civilized world. Even you'd manage to be happy. :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 08, 2009, 12:14:33 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 08, 2009, 12:14:02 PM
Sad. Mart, sometime you have to come visit me in the civilized world. Even you'd manage to be happy. :P

Was it a comment about the article or the picture? :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 08, 2009, 12:22:33 PM
Picture. :D
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Faeelin on August 08, 2009, 12:31:48 PM
Wait, you can be fined for mean words in Poland?

No wonder your neighbors gang bang you ever few years.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on August 08, 2009, 12:41:05 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on August 08, 2009, 12:31:48 PM
Wait, you can be fined for mean words in Poland?

No wonder your neighbors gang bang you ever few years.
I look forward to Martinus having to pay thousands to the Catholic Church.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Faeelin on August 08, 2009, 12:50:33 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 08, 2009, 12:41:05 PM
I look forward to Martinus having to pay thousands to the Catholic Church.

The Pope? How many divisions does he have?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on August 08, 2009, 01:20:05 PM
why is a born again type doing a Tarot reading? isn't that witchcraft or something?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: citizen k on August 08, 2009, 01:46:03 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on August 08, 2009, 01:20:05 PM
why is a born again type doing a Tarot reading? isn't that witchcraft or something?
I'm sorry, just some people don't fit into categories very easily.  ;)



Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: viper37 on August 08, 2009, 02:27:41 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 08, 2009, 07:05:09 AM
This is not some kind of gay support forum.  Official forum policy is anti-faggot, and has been for some years now.
someone should have told Marty years ago...
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on August 08, 2009, 02:39:55 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on August 08, 2009, 01:20:05 PM
isn't that witchcraft or something?
Yes.  There's something approaching evil in tarot and oujis and things like that <_<
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on August 08, 2009, 02:56:10 PM
It's superstition.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: merithyn on August 09, 2009, 02:38:43 PM
As opposed to religion?  :huh:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 09, 2009, 02:40:53 PM
Quote from: merithyn on August 09, 2009, 02:38:43 PM
As opposed to religion?  :huh:

Which is divine truth.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: MadImmortalMan on August 17, 2009, 05:59:13 PM



http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/08/17/obama_makes_explicit_his_objec.html

Quote
Obama Makes Explicit His Objection to DOMA

By Scott Wilson
President Obama made clear Monday that he favors the repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act, and intends to ask Congress to repeal the 13-year-old law that denies benefits to domestic partners of federal employees and allows states to reject same-sex marriages performed in other states.

Obama has long opposed the law, which he has called discriminatory. But his Justice Department has angered the gay community, which favored Obama by a wide margin in last year's election, by defending the law in court. The administration has said it is standard practice for the Justice Department to do so, even for laws that it does not agree with.

The Justice Department did so again Monday in its response in Smelt v. United States, a case before a U.S. District Court in California. But, for the first time, the filing itself made clear that the administration "does not support DOMA as a matter of policy, believes that it is discriminatory, and supports its repeal."

Obama and his senior advisers have made that statement before, but never in a court brief. In addition, Obama issued a statement noting that, although his administration is again defending DOMA in court, "this brief makes clear...that my administration believes the act is discriminatory and should be repealed by Congress."

"While we work with Congress to repeal DOMA, my administration will continue to examine and implement measures that will help extend rights and benefits to LGBT couples under existing law," Obama said in the statement.

Let's see if it happens.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: DontSayBanana on August 17, 2009, 08:29:49 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 17, 2009, 05:59:13 PM



http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/08/17/obama_makes_explicit_his_objec.html

Quote
[snip]

Let's see if it happens.

That would be an interesting development.

For those that say there's no "Jim Crow" effect in marriage legislation, in 1996, the year DOMA was passed, Alaska was the only state to ban gay marriage- it has since jumped to 29 states with legislation explicitly barring gay marriage (6 states have chosen to permit gay marriage, and it remains an open issue with 4 other states besides CA); many of those chose to follow federal "guidance" and use DOMA as a crutch to show that their bans pass the federal test.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: MadImmortalMan on August 17, 2009, 08:55:25 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on August 17, 2009, 08:29:49 PM

That would be an interesting development.

For those that say there's no "Jim Crow" effect in marriage legislation, in 1996, the year DOMA was passed, Alaska was the only state to ban gay marriage- it has since jumped to 29 states with legislation explicitly barring gay marriage (6 states have chosen to permit gay marriage, and it remains an open issue with 4 other states besides CA); many of those chose to follow federal "guidance" and use DOMA as a crutch to show that their bans pass the federal test.


You could just as easily say that it was the OMG MARRAIGE IS TEH UNDER THREAT response from the fundies toward the fact that it had been becoming far more mainstream and accepted during that same time frame. Correlation, causation, etc.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on August 17, 2009, 09:00:56 PM
Quote from: citizen k on August 08, 2009, 01:46:03 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on August 08, 2009, 01:20:05 PM
why is a born again type doing a Tarot reading? isn't that witchcraft or something?
I'm sorry, just some people don't fit into categories very easily.  ;)





yeah look who you are telling that to.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: DontSayBanana on August 17, 2009, 09:01:54 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 17, 2009, 08:55:25 PM
You could just as easily say that it was the OMG MARRAIGE IS TEH UNDER THREAT response from the fundies toward the fact that it had been becoming far more mainstream and accepted during that same time frame. Correlation, causation, etc.

I guess the "knee-jerk response" correlation could be read for 13-16 of the banning states; particularly in the case of the 13 states that banned gay marriage the year after MA legalized it.

http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=421
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 18, 2009, 06:14:57 AM
This is truly horrible:

QuoteAugust 17, 2009
Report: Gay Iraqis Being Slaughtered
By Neal Broverman

The group Human Rights Watch has confirmed what has been whispered about for months: Gay men in Iraq are being routinely tortured and killed.

HRW released a report on Monday that documented the terror that gay Iraqis have endured since the end of Saddam Hussein's regime in 2003, including roving militiamen who have hunted and murdered gay men seeking their first taste of freedom.

Based on reports by a United Nations official in Baghdad, hospital officials, and gay Iraqi men, the report states that hundreds of gay men have been killed in Shiite areas of the Muslim nation. Iraqi officials allegedly knew about the murders but have done little to stop future killings. In Monday's Washington Post, Iraq's human rights minister said that the closeted nature of Iraq's gays makes it hard to protect them from the killers.

The kidnappings, torture, and murder of gay men coincided with the downturn of violence in Iraq that occurred in 2008. That quiet signaled a weakening of power by militia and insurgent leaders, and the subsequent Westernization of Iraq: women ditching the long robes that once covered their entire bodies, the appearance of liquor stores, and gay men gathering together in public. Possibly in response to this, Shiite religious leaders issued decrees that condemned "unnatural" behavior.

The charge d'affaires of the U.S. Embassy wrote U.S. congressman Jared Polis, a gay politician, in April and spelled out the extreme level of violence occurring, including torture methods like injecting super glue into men's rectums. Polis visited Iraq that spring and addressed the issue with U.S. and Iraqi officials.

HRW states that in recent weeks the violence has subsided a bit -- partly because many gay men have retreated back underground. Another reason for the ebb in attacks, according to Scott Long, director of the gay rights program at HRW, is that "the militias have run out of people to kill."

Looks like the "brutal Saddam regime" that we toppled was preferable to the current situation, after all. Fucking muslims.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 18, 2009, 06:18:25 AM
More from the BBC:

QuoteAnti-gay attacks on rise in Iraq
Gay Iraqi men are being murdered in what appears to be a co-ordinated campaign involving militia forces, the group Human Rights Watch says.

It says hundreds of gay men have been targeted and killed in Iraq since 2004.

So-called honour killings also account for deaths where families punish their own kin in order to avoid public shame.

The report says members of the Mehdi Army militia group are spearheading the campaign, but police are also accused - even though homosexuality is legal.

Witnesses say vigilante groups break into homes and pick people up in the street, interrogating them to extract the names of other potential victims, before murdering them.

"Murder and torture are no way to enforce morality," said HRW researcher Rasha Moumneh, quoted in the report.

"These killings point to the continuing and lethal failure of Iraq's post-occupation authorities to establish the rule of law and protect their citizens."

In some cases, Human Rights Watch says it was told, Iraqi security forces had actually "colluded and joined in the killing".

Witch-hunt

Recently, posters appeared in Sadr City - a conservative, Shia area of Baghdad - calling on people to watch out for gay men and listing not only their names but also their addresses.

One gay man in Baghdad described the killing campaign as a witch-hunt.

" These killings will continue, because it has simply become normal in Iraq to kill gay men "
Unnamed gay Iraqi man
Nearly 90 gay men have been killed in Iraq since the beginning of January and many more are missing, local gay rights campaigners say.

The report, called They want us exterminated: Murder, Torture, Sexual Orientation and Gender in Iraq, says horrifically mutilated bodies of gay men have been left on rubbish tips.

Sometimes their bodies are daubed with offensive terms such as "pervert", or "puppy" which is a hate word for gay men in Iraq.

The report contains detailed testimonies of a range of brutal treatment of gay Iraqi men.

"We've heard stories confirmed by doctors of men having their anuses glued and then being force-fed laxatives which leads to a very painful death," says Ms Moumneh told the BBC.

'Feminised men'

When questioned in the past, officials in Iraq have condemned the killings, but the BBC's Natalia Antelava in Baghdad reports that gay men there say nothing has been done to protect them.

"These killings will continue, because it has simply become normal in Iraq to kill gay men," said a gay Iraqi man who did not want to be named.

Mehdi army spokesmen and clerics have condemned what they call the "feminisation" of Iraqi men and have urged the military to take action against them.

The report said many gay men have fled to other countries in the region, despite consensual homosexual activity being illegal there, because the risk of victimisation is reduced.

HRW says the threats and abuses have spread from Baghdad to Kirkuk, Najaf and Basra, although persecution remains concentrated in the capital.

Officials say part of the problem in dealing with the attacks is that victims' relatives seldom if ever provide information to the police.

"They consider talking about the subject worse than the crime itself. This is the nature of our society," ministry spokesman Major General Abdul-Karim Khalaf said.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Faeelin on August 18, 2009, 06:33:07 AM
How has this been whispered?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on August 18, 2009, 07:00:14 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 18, 2009, 06:14:57 AMLooks like the "brutal Saddam regime" that we toppled was preferable to the current situation, after all. Fucking muslims.
Well duh, I've been saying that for a while, though IMO it had nothing to do with gays.  Arabs are living in the 13th century and, as such, are unable to cope with democracy.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: swallow on August 18, 2009, 10:56:52 AM
This is horrific.

I don't understand how things can have changed so much.  I was doing some holiday work in Southern France c. 26 years ago and I remember thinking how normal the muslim men working there were about being gay - I think they  translated it as 'sensitives'

Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on August 18, 2009, 11:09:38 AM
Sadly, I think the Islam of 26 years ago was much less fundie dominated than the current Islamic world... also I'd imagine that French Muslims would be much more cosmopolitan than Iraqi ones living in a war zone. Going through a war or several wars doesn't make one more relaxed about people who are "different".

edit: Not that that excuses any harsh treatment of any minority, mind you. The current crop of morons in Iraq are looking for boogeymen, and gays are always a convenient target.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: swallow on August 18, 2009, 11:20:50 AM
That's something that I've realised since coming on Languish - how different the same religion can be in different parts of the world.  The disparity makes it very difficult to solve the problems when people are saying and doing very different things under the same banner
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on August 18, 2009, 11:21:19 AM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on August 18, 2009, 11:09:38 AM
Sadly, I think the Islam of 26 years ago was much less fundie dominated than the current Islamic world...

Way to go Saudis!
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on August 18, 2009, 11:30:04 AM
Quote from: swallow on August 18, 2009, 11:20:50 AM
That's something that I've realised since coming on Languish - how different the same religion can be in different parts of the world.  The disparity makes it very difficult to solve the problems when people are saying and doing very different things under the same banner

:yes: That's the problem that the gazillions of actually reasonable Muslims who live in big cities, and play pro sports, are doctors, or whatever have. They are drowned out by their shrill poor cousins, who make the news much more frequently.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on August 18, 2009, 11:34:32 AM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on August 18, 2009, 11:30:04 AM
:yes: That's the problem that the gazillions of actually reasonable Muslims who live in big cities, and play pro sports, are doctors, or whatever have. They are drowned out by their shrill poor cousins, who make the news much more frequently.

The problem is not their shrill cousins making the news, the problem is their shrill cousins forming militias and siezing political power while the reasonable Muslims seem to be impotent to stop them (without becoming nutty themselves and starting up military dictatorships and the like).

If all it was was some nutters making the news well they would be no different than any other nutty branch of a religion.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 18, 2009, 11:34:53 AM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on August 18, 2009, 11:30:04 AM
:yes: That's the problem that the gazillions of actually reasonable Muslims who live in big cities, and play pro sports, are doctors, or whatever have. They are drowned out by their shrill poor cousins, who make the news much more frequently.

Where morons then lap it up and build up righteous anger against all muslims.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on August 18, 2009, 11:36:01 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 18, 2009, 11:34:53 AM
Where morons then lap it up and build up righteous anger against all muslims.

To be fair these same morons also have righteous anger towards all Christians...at least on this board.

Well except for that crazy Flemish guy.

But still there are reasons to disagree with Islam besides being a moron.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on August 18, 2009, 11:40:07 AM
Quote from: swallow on August 18, 2009, 10:56:52 AM
This is horrific.

I don't understand how things can have changed so much.  I was doing some holiday work in Southern France c. 26 years ago and I remember thinking how normal the muslim men working there were about being gay - I think they  translated it as 'sensitives'

I'm confused. What does Southern France have to do with Iraq?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 18, 2009, 11:44:07 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 18, 2009, 11:36:01 AM
To be fair these same morons also have righteous anger towards all Christians...at least on this board.

Well except for that crazy Flemish guy.

But still there are reasons to disagree with Islam besides being a moron.

I don't see how more irrational hatred makes it better...consistency? :unsure:

Disliking or disagreeing with Islam isn't necessarily the same as calling for the death of muslims (even specific ones).  I certainly don't agree with Islam or Christianity but I'm not calling for anyone's head.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on August 18, 2009, 11:45:27 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 18, 2009, 11:44:07 AM
I don't see how more irrational hatred makes it better...consistency? :unsure:

It doesn't.  I am not even sure why I am defending them except I do not really take them seriously.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on August 18, 2009, 11:46:54 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 18, 2009, 11:44:07 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 18, 2009, 11:36:01 AM
To be fair these same morons also have righteous anger towards all Christians...at least on this board.

Well except for that crazy Flemish guy.

But still there are reasons to disagree with Islam besides being a moron.

I don't see how more irrational hatred makes it better...consistency? :unsure:

Disliking or disagreeing with Islam isn't necessarily the same as calling for the death of muslims (even specific ones).  I certainly don't agree with Islam or Christianity but I'm not calling for anyone's head.

if more people thought like this the world would be so much more peaceful.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on August 18, 2009, 11:50:00 AM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on August 18, 2009, 11:46:54 AM
if more people thought like this the world would be so much more peaceful.

Is garbon a being of: peace and light?

I think so.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 18, 2009, 11:50:19 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 18, 2009, 11:45:27 AM
It doesn't.  I am not even sure why I am defending them except I do not really take them seriously.

I'm not sure why either and I've never even considered taking them seriously. After all, they're both rather impotent individuals.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 18, 2009, 11:50:47 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 18, 2009, 11:50:00 AM
Is garbon a being of: peace and light?

I think so.

Oh no...does that mean I'm becoming a Euro? :weep:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on August 18, 2009, 11:51:17 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 18, 2009, 11:50:19 AM
Quote from: Valmy on August 18, 2009, 11:45:27 AM
It doesn't.  I am not even sure why I am defending them except I do not really take them seriously.

I'm not sure why either and I've never even considered taking them seriously. After all, they're both rather impotent individuals.

I think I was just on a roll in that thread. :blush:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Ed Anger on August 27, 2009, 04:38:23 PM
the blog chick is a giant pussy. But posted to fire up Marti's anger bladder.

http://milbergsmusings.wordpress.com/2009/08/26/whos-your-daddy/

QuoteTwo Miami courtrooms, two cases, one very interesting juxtaposition of Florida law:

In criminal court, prosecutors dropped a child abuse case against a man named Loscar Rodriguez, a father, who decided that a good belt lashing would teach his 8 year old son to get better grades.  Did the boy get better grades?  Not sure, but he did get raised welts on his leg and backside, bruises big and purple enough to alarm a teacher, and a butt that hurt him to sit upon.

At the same time, across town at the District Court of Appeals, a man named Frank Gill fought to protect his status as the father of two boys he first fostered then adopted.  He and his partner had taken in the two young brothers who had known no other healthy family, and were eventually called exemplary fathers and family, but the state is appealing the adoption because Gill is gay.

Florida law bans gay people from adopting children.  But it protects the right to beat a child with an object until he/she is black and blue.

Back in criminal court, prosecutors cited case law that helped them decide the belt-wielding, lash-giving Rodriguez is not a child abuser under the law.  Turns out, in cases past, Florida appellate judges have opined "even significant bruises or welts from paddling" is discipline, not abuse; that "a strike on the face, a split lip, forced feeding" is – you guessed it – discipline, not abuse.   Exactly what does a child learned from that?  How and when to dole out the same violence when he/she grows up?

Back to the DCA.  Attorneys for Gill argued Florida's exclusion of gays in the adoption process is unconstitutional.  The ban has been law for decades and has prevented countless children from the benefits of loving, responsible, nurturing parents.   

The appellate court ruling usually takes a few months.

The criminal court case was dropped in 12 minutes.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 27, 2009, 04:40:13 PM
I'm not really seeing the connection between the two cases, although I suppose in conjunction they support the argument that children aren't necessarily worse off when raised by gay parents.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on August 27, 2009, 06:57:27 PM
Get ready, because what is happening in Iraq will happen here.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Faeelin on August 27, 2009, 07:04:50 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 27, 2009, 06:57:27 PM
Get ready, because what is happening in Iraq will happen here.

The Canadians will be nowhere to be found?

I'll miss Malthus, personally.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 28, 2009, 07:36:34 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcklRCFeP6M&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcklRCFeP6M&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on September 02, 2009, 11:07:17 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ULdaSrYGLQ
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on September 02, 2009, 05:03:43 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 02, 2009, 11:07:17 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ULdaSrYGLQ

Very cool ad. :)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on October 02, 2009, 12:35:11 PM
I had learnt that Roxette was releasing their remastered catalogue yesterday so I got their records today. Cheap.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 02, 2009, 12:38:49 PM
 :lol:

I actually have a Roxette album.  :blush:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on October 02, 2009, 12:46:25 PM
Per Gessle is a genius.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Ed Anger on October 02, 2009, 02:30:23 PM
Cleveland got the 2014 gay games. Ohio got fagged up.  :(
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on October 03, 2009, 01:05:50 PM
I was AMBUSHED at home by the TV TAXMAN who threatened me with GITMO and made me report TV ownership.

Oh well, I had 15 good years.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on October 03, 2009, 01:08:56 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 02, 2009, 02:30:23 PM
Cleveland got the 2014 gay games. Ohio got fagged up.  :(

Cleveland is horrible. Why would a gay person go there?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on October 03, 2009, 01:11:41 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 03, 2009, 01:08:56 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 02, 2009, 02:30:23 PM
Cleveland got the 2014 gay games. Ohio got fagged up.  :(

Cleveland is horrible. Why would a gay person go there?

:huh: The gaymes?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on October 03, 2009, 01:13:16 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 03, 2009, 01:11:41 PM
:huh: The gaymes?

Not a defensible reason.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on October 03, 2009, 04:52:16 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 02, 2009, 02:30:23 PM
Cleveland got the 2014 gay games. Ohio got fagged up.  :(

I heard that every day 500 people move out of Ohio.  I guess they are getting desperate to have anybody go there.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Ed Anger on October 03, 2009, 04:55:17 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 03, 2009, 04:52:16 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 02, 2009, 02:30:23 PM
Cleveland got the 2014 gay games. Ohio got fagged up.  :(

I heard that every day 500 people move out of Ohio.  I guess they are getting desperate to have anybody go there.

Ain't nothing to see here. Plus, at least they will be on the other side of the state annoying the Dazzling Urbanites, Polacks and and other weird Eastern Europeans instead of me.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Ed Anger on October 03, 2009, 05:18:40 PM
And before Marti goes off on a histrionic rant, I like the gays. Especially Lesbians.



Just not whiny, histrionic gays.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on October 03, 2009, 05:28:27 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 03, 2009, 05:18:40 PM
And before Marti goes off on a histrionic rant, I like the gays. Especially Lesbians.

We need them to fill the female slots of my co-ed softball team.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on October 04, 2009, 12:01:38 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 03, 2009, 05:18:40 PM
Especially Lesbians.

Yeah, who wouldn't love ugly women that dress like slobby men!
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on October 04, 2009, 01:03:29 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 04, 2009, 12:01:38 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 03, 2009, 05:18:40 PM
Especially Lesbians.

Yeah, who wouldn't love ugly women that dress like slobby men!

THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS

In almost every documentary about lesbianism or female bisexuality they look more or less like this:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.xxxfemalez.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2008%2F02%2Fsexy-lesbian-threesome-sex-toys1.jpg&hash=63607151381d199f2f6bf0c4cf13301bc552c280)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Capetan Mihali on October 04, 2009, 02:16:36 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 03, 2009, 01:08:56 PM
Quote from: Ed Anger on October 02, 2009, 02:30:23 PM
Cleveland got the 2014 gay games. Ohio got fagged up.  :(

Cleveland is horrible. Why would a gay person go there?

I went to a pretty great gay bar in Cleveland a few years ago.  I can't remember the name, though.  And the late Iggy's Bar.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on October 04, 2009, 02:58:10 AM
Sorry, Syt, the reality is more like this:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.womynfestatsea.com%2Fpic_SabrinaMatthews.jpg&hash=63250c6d9637f634c9b6e45691a2939e57e9b6d1)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on October 04, 2009, 03:00:37 AM
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 04, 2009, 08:24:25 AM
I'm sure Syt has seen many more of those documentaries than Martinus has.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on October 04, 2009, 09:40:03 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on October 04, 2009, 08:24:25 AM
I'm sure Syt has seen many more of those documentaries than Martinus has.

Indeed. My documentary expertise focuses instead on camaraderie between soldiers, college students, policemen, or athletes.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: viper37 on October 05, 2009, 08:22:23 AM
The gayest cartoon characters (http://www.out.com/exclusives.asp?id=25914)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Faeelin on October 05, 2009, 10:33:44 AM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/02/BANH1A0DM8.DTL#ixzz0StMx9g7r

The judge in the federal California Prop 8 case is asking for the supporters to release documents on campaign strategy to discern their motivation for the Amendment.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: DontSayBanana on October 05, 2009, 02:11:55 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on October 05, 2009, 10:33:44 AM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/02/BANH1A0DM8.DTL#ixzz0StMx9g7r

The judge in the federal California Prop 8 case is asking for the supporters to release documents on campaign strategy to discern their motivation for the Amendment.


I love this:
QuoteAndrew Pugno, a lawyer for the Prop. 8 sponsors, said Friday it was unprecedented to allow "the losing side of a campaign to pry into the most intimate strategy discussions of the winning side."

Pure :tinfoil: Strategy equals consideration equals intent, so if there's a viable question of legislation made in bad faith, wouldn't that be the most critical evidence?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on October 06, 2009, 01:34:27 PM
With Obama flip-flopping on gay rights, guess who is getting the lavender vote next elections? :D

QuoteLevi Johnston Accepts Playgirl Offer to Pose

By Steve Javors, XBIZ.com
Thu, Sep 03 2009 04:00pm PDT

NEW YORK — Burgeoning gay icon Levi Johnston has decided to accept an offer to pose for Playgirl — the only catch is that he won't be fully nude.

Gawker.com reported today that an agreement has been reached for Johnston to pose in his skivvies for Playgirl.com and the final details currently are being hammered out.

What started as a joke between Johnston and his manager during a photo shoot for Vanity Fair is now actually going to happen. After reading about Johnston's willingness to pose nude, Playgirl photo coordinator Daniel Nardicio got in contact with Johnston's manager, Tank Jones who passed along the message to his client's lawyer.

"There are people out there that want to see such a shoot of Levi and we are ready to do it if the proposal is right," his lawyer Rex Butler wrote.

Perhaps unaware that Playgirl is targeted at a gay male audience, Johnston said, "I'm assuming it's where a dude poses for women." Johnston, the father of former vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin's grandson, first started attracting gay fans en masse after he attended FOX's Teen Choice Awards with comedienne Kathy Griffin who has a huge gay following.

Since that appearance, and after he's stated publicly that he'd be willing to pose nude, Johnston has received a few offers: StraightCollegeMen.com offered him $25,000 for a solo masturbation scene and Unzipped magazine proffered a cover story and nude photo layout.
Playgirl folded its print publication in November 2008.

And his answer to how he feels about having gay fans:

QuoteSaid Johnston: "I think it's great man, um, I like my fans. Just another person." When Cohen asked Johnston if there were any gays in Wasilla, Johnston responded, "Oh yeah. We got gays in Wasilla, Anchorage, they're all up here."
:lol:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on October 06, 2009, 02:01:16 PM
I'm glad we could go back to early september. Almost time for another 9/11 memorial.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on October 06, 2009, 02:05:54 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 06, 2009, 02:01:16 PM
I'm glad we could go back to early september. Almost time for another 9/11 memorial.
Let's remember:  Martinus is in a total backwater.  He probably doesn't even know what you mean by 9/11.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Faeelin on October 06, 2009, 03:32:06 PM
Quote from: DontSayBanana on October 05, 2009, 02:11:55 PM
QuoteAndrew Pugno, a lawyer for the Prop. 8 sponsors, said Friday it was unprecedented to allow "the losing side of a campaign to pry into the most intimate strategy discussions of the winning side."

Pure :tinfoil: Strategy equals consideration equals intent, so if there's a viable question of legislation made in bad faith, wouldn't that be the most critical evidence?

I can't help but wonder about the precedential intent if the judge decides it was motivated by animus. O'conner said she'd strike down a gay marriage ban if it was motivated by animus and not a legitimate defense of traditional marriage. Hrm.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 07, 2009, 04:17:28 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 03, 2009, 01:05:50 PM
I was AMBUSHED at home by the TV TAXMAN who threatened me with GITMO and made me report TV ownership.

Oh well, I had 15 good years.

Oh My... A Swede not paying taxes!  :lol:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on October 07, 2009, 04:25:25 AM
So much for muslims integrating well.
QuoteFrench gay soccer team snubbed by Muslim team

PARIS — A French gay soccer team says its members were victims of homophobia when a team of Muslim players refused to play a match against them.

The Paris Foot Gay team says Tuesday it received an e-mail from the Creteil Bebel club canceling a match scheduled for last Sunday.

"Because of the principles of our team, which is a team of devout Muslims, we can't play against you," the e-mail said, according to Paris Foot Gay. The e-mail received Saturday said, "Our convictions are much more important than a simple football match."

Paris Foot Gay said in a statement that it asked the amateur league to sanction Creteil Bebel.

Zahir Belgarbi, identified as a spokesman for Creteil Bebel, told France-Info radio he apologized if "anyone felt upset or hurt."
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 07, 2009, 05:09:54 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 07, 2009, 04:25:25 AM
So much for muslims integrating well.
QuoteFrench gay soccer team snubbed by Muslim team

PARIS — A French gay soccer team says its members were victims of homophobia when a team of Muslim players refused to play a match against them.

The Paris Foot Gay team says Tuesday it received an e-mail from the Creteil Bebel club canceling a match scheduled for last Sunday.

"Because of the principles of our team, which is a team of devout Muslims, we can't play against you," the e-mail said, according to Paris Foot Gay. The e-mail received Saturday said, "Our convictions are much more important than a simple football match."

Paris Foot Gay said in a statement that it asked the amateur league to sanction Creteil Bebel.

Zahir Belgarbi, identified as a spokesman for Creteil Bebel, told France-Info radio he apologized if "anyone felt upset or hurt."

Heard of that case. It's all the rage on the French web. Communautarisme, nous voilà!

On the other hand, "PFG enculés" takes a new whole meaning...  :D
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on October 07, 2009, 08:02:09 AM
QuoteZahir Belgarbi, identified as a spokesman for Creteil Bebel, told France-Info radio he apologized if "anyone felt upset or hurt."

Since I am pretty sure nowhere in Islam does it specifically say you cannot play football with gay people I wonder what the intention of the snub was besides hurting or upsetting people?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on October 07, 2009, 08:13:29 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 07, 2009, 08:02:09 AM
QuoteZahir Belgarbi, identified as a spokesman for Creteil Bebel, told France-Info radio he apologized if "anyone felt upset or hurt."

Since I am pretty sure nowhere in Islam does it specifically say you cannot play football with gay people I wonder what the intention of the snub was besides hurting or upsetting people?
To avoid contact with the enemy?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 07, 2009, 08:16:39 AM
Breaking news:

http://fr.news.yahoo.com/63/20091007/tfr-paris-foot-gay-finalement-crteil-veu-019dcf9.html (http://fr.news.yahoo.com/63/20091007/tfr-paris-foot-gay-finalement-crteil-veu-019dcf9.html)

Paris Foot Gay: finalement, Créteil veut bien jouer?

They now say they want to play the Jaron squad (homo/hetero alliance)    :)

La rencontre va-t-elle finalement avoir lieu?

Dimanche, à l'occasion d'un match de coupe en football loisir, l'équipe du Créteil Bébel, composée de musulmans pratiquants, a annulé la rencontre au dernier moment, sous prétexte qu'elle devait être opposée au Paris Foot Gay, une équipe composée d'homosexuels et d'hétérosexuels désireux de "défendre le droit à la différence et de faire reculer les préjugés".

Dans un mail adressé aux dirigeants du Paris Foot Gay, le Créteil Bébel s'est justifié ainsi: «Désolés, mais par rapport au nom de votre équipe et conformément aux principes de notre équipe, qui est une équipe de musulmans pratiquants, nous ne pouvons jouer contre vous, nos convictions sont de loin plus importantes qu'un simple match de foot, encore une fois excusez-nous de vous avoir prévenus si tard».

Alors que la polémique dépasse le cadre de cette rencontre entre amateurs, plusieurs joueurs du Créteil Bébel affirment à présent vouloir affronter l'équipe du Paris Football Gay, selon 20minutes.fr.

Sur RMC Info, des joueurs de Créteil se disent en effet maintenant prêts à disputer le match.

«Une majorité de l'équipe est choquée, certes, que cette équipe puisse s'appeler Foot Gay... Mais on ne cautionne pas le mail de notre dirigeant. D'ailleurs, il ne nous a pas prévenus de l'envoi de ce courrier. Il a été dépassé par les événements» précise Ben, le capitaine de Créteil Bébel.

Le capitaine affirme qu'en accord avec ses coéquipiers, il souhaite jouer ce match sans histoire afin «de montrer que nous ne sommes pas homophobes».

Un capitaine qui ajoute: «Je suis prêt à rassembler l'équipe. On fera un match à onze contre onze et le plus fort gagnera».
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Faeelin on October 07, 2009, 11:14:45 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 07, 2009, 04:25:25 AM
So much for muslims integrating well.

Yes, because no Christians have ever done stuff like that.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on October 07, 2009, 11:22:02 AM
Speaking of Muslims, I saw a Caucasian-looking muslim driving in his car with a woman today. Had one of those gross, pubic hair explosion type beards.  She sat in the backseat with her headscarf on.  I'd like a chauffeur.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on October 07, 2009, 01:31:44 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 07, 2009, 08:13:29 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 07, 2009, 08:02:09 AM
QuoteZahir Belgarbi, identified as a spokesman for Creteil Bebel, told France-Info radio he apologized if "anyone felt upset or hurt."

Since I am pretty sure nowhere in Islam does it specifically say you cannot play football with gay people I wonder what the intention of the snub was besides hurting or upsetting people?
To avoid contact with the enemy?

well gay & French? that's like double gay. They figured they'd all be sucking dick on the field by half time. :p fundies are tards film @ 11.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Faeelin on October 10, 2009, 08:10:16 PM
Well, Obama just gave his big gay speech.

I felt a bit better about going to DC tomorrow to pressure grass.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on October 10, 2009, 08:39:32 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on October 10, 2009, 08:10:16 PM
going to DC tomorrow to pressure grass.

Good for you. :hug:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on October 10, 2009, 09:23:34 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on October 10, 2009, 08:10:16 PM
Well, Obama just gave his big gay speech.

I felt a bit better about going to DC tomorrow to pressure grass.
About how he hates gays?

Why would you want to pressure DC grass?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Faeelin on October 10, 2009, 09:24:33 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 10, 2009, 09:23:34 PM
Why would you want to pressure DC grass?

Training for when I grind your nation beneath my heel.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on October 10, 2009, 09:27:42 PM
It's aboot time.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on October 10, 2009, 10:35:03 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on October 07, 2009, 11:14:45 AM
Yes, because no Christians have ever done stuff like that.

Yeah because Marty is always such a pro-Christian sort of guy.  That got him!  Zing!  Worst comeback to Marty ever.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on October 11, 2009, 04:10:07 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 10, 2009, 10:35:03 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on October 07, 2009, 11:14:45 AM
Yes, because no Christians have ever done stuff like that.

Yeah because Marty is always such a pro-Christian sort of guy.  That got him!  Zing!  Worst comeback to Marty ever.
Well, I hate Muslims more than Christians, but only a little bit.

If there is one lesson Hitler taught us, is that you can't go about exterminating everybody at once. Small steps and all that.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: katmai on October 11, 2009, 05:14:08 AM
We can at least start with the gay polacks.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on October 11, 2009, 06:12:08 AM
Quote from: Faeelin on October 10, 2009, 09:24:33 PM
Quote from: Neil on October 10, 2009, 09:23:34 PM
Why would you want to pressure DC grass?

Training for when I grind your nation beneath my heel.
Who will follow you?  You can't even get the people of your country to allow you to marry some guy, let alone lead them in a war under your ideology of Martinusism.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 11, 2009, 10:06:05 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 11, 2009, 04:10:07 AM
Well, I hate Muslims more than Christians, but only a little bit.

If there is one lesson Hitler taught us, is that you can't go about exterminating everybody at once. Small steps and all that.

He also taught us that atheists/agnostics/pagans can persecute gays as well.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Faeelin on October 11, 2009, 10:13:38 AM
Quote from: Neil on October 11, 2009, 06:12:08 AM
Who will follow you?  You can't even get the people of your country to allow you to marry some guy, let alone lead them in a war under your ideology of Martinusism.

It is far easier to make Americans hate your country than it is to get them to like gays, especially as so many of us already do.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: MadImmortalMan on October 12, 2009, 03:45:12 PM
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Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Faeelin on October 12, 2009, 03:46:37 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on October 12, 2009, 03:45:12 PM
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Hrmm. I have to admit, 12% in 6 years is pretty impressive.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 20, 2009, 10:13:54 PM
The frothing factor will be quite high on this story.

http://www.slate.com/id/2233014/
QuoteDead Law Walking
Why are New York cops arresting gay people on charges ruled unconstitutional 26 years ago?
By Daniel Redman
Posted Tuesday, Oct. 20, 2009, at 1:52 PM ET
In 1983, New York's high court struck down as unconstitutional a 1960s-era provision that made it illegal to cruise—that is, to hit on someone in a public place. And yet in the 26 years since, on thousands of occasions, the New York Police Department has continued to enforce the defunct law, historically used to target gay people.


The defendant in the 1983 case was a gay man arrested for striking up a conversation with a plainclothes police officer and asking him back to his house for sex. The court threw out the anti-cruising law, reasoning that the state couldn't criminalize an act anticipatory to sodomy when sodomy itself was constitutionally protected. (Two years earlier, the same court had found the state's anti-sodomy law unconstitutional.)

Whatever one may think of cruising and whether it should be prohibited, the court's ruling should have killed off the statute. Instead, in the 26 years of this law's odd posthumous career, district attorneys brought 4,750 prosecutions and judges convicted 2,550 defendants. For violating an imaginary law, these defendants paid a decidedly non-imaginary $70,000 in bail and $190,000 in court fees and fines. In the last 10 years, NYPD officers also issued 9,693 citations, forcing citizens to pay $71,000 in fees. The criminal records of these victims have never been expunged and the fees and fines have not been refunded.


In 2001, a gay man who refused to plead guilty got his case dismissed, but he did not win a broader remedy. Police arrested the man for telling a plainclothes officer in the Bronx's Van Cortlandt Park that he was there "to meet guys." When his attorney Michael Spiegel discovered that the anti-cruising law was invalid, he brought it to the court's attention. Four months later, the case was dismissed. Spiegel and the client considered a civil rights lawsuit, but the city offered a settlement that the client accepted. Despite the settlement, the case should have still put the cops, prosecutors, and the courts on notice. In 2003, Gay City News' Duncan Osborne wrote a story headlined "Gay man in 2001 arrested on soliciting law thrown out in 1983." Yet the NYPD continued to arrest and issue summonses, and district attorneys continued to prosecute.

In March 2008, civil rights lawyers brought a class action in federal court on behalf of the thousands of people unconstitutionally arrested, cited, and prosecuted under the defunct anti-cruising law. In May, Judge Shira Scheindlin ordered the City of New York to send letters to the police, district attorneys, and trial judges to remind them that the anti-cruising law was void and should no longer be enforced. NYPD brass sent out a bulletin to officers stating that in each officer's personal copy of the penal code, the law should be "stricken by drawing a line through it in black ink." (After 26 years, the law was still on the books because the legislature had never repealed it.)

Apparently, the NYPD ran out of black ink. From the day that the bulletin went out until now, hundreds of additional summonses for cruising have been issued. Celeste Koeleveld, of the New York City Law Department, says that the NYPD has taken "many proactive steps to address the issuance of any summonses" under unconstitutional laws. But the most recent summons for violating the anti-cruising law was issued in September 2009—nearly a year and a half after the NYPD's bulletin went out. "It is truly shocking that after 26 years and multiple court orders, they just can't stop doing it," said McGregor Smyth, a lawyer at the Bronx Defenders who is counsel for the plaintiffs in the class action. The NYPD did not respond to several requests for comment.

How did this miscarriage of justice, involving thousands, evade notice all this time? One possible answer lies in the combination of intimidation and minimum deprivation of rights, at least in the short-run, which enforcement has entailed. People who were issued citations may have feared being exposed as gay or as out of line with the norms of sexual propriety. Many of these people paid the ticket, pled guilty by doing so, and—without a judge or defense lawyer to raise a question—tried to leave the whole thing behind them. Also, as the judge in the class action acknowledged, many of them probably pled guilty or accepted plea bargains without even knowing that the anti-cruising statute had been ruled unconstitutional.

In some cases, the citations may have had long-term and more serious consequences than simply paying a fine. More than 6,900 bench warrants were issued between 1983 and 2008 for people arrested or issued a citation who missed their court dates or failed to pay the fine after pleading guilty. A pending warrant can lead to a denial of citizenship for an immigrant, disqualification for public housing, or the loss of a job opportunity if an employer conducts a criminal background check. And when a charge for cruising is tacked on to another charge, as happened in half of the prosecutions, it can easily create additional pressure to plead guilty, says professor Erin Murphy of U.C.-Berkeley's Boalt Hall School of Law.

The anti-cruising law isn't the only unconstitutional statute wielded against New Yorkers. A law banning loitering in public transportation facilities was struck down in 1988—and then enforced against more than 500 people over the next decade. A law that criminalized begging has been enforced more than 7,000 times after being thrown out by a federal appeals court on free speech grounds. These statutes plus the anti-cruising provision—all the subject of pending federal lawsuits—have racked up more than 20,000 arrests and citations that had absolutely no legal basis. That's 20,000 too many. The courts buried these laws long ago, and it's time for the NYPD to let them rest in peace.

Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on October 21, 2009, 02:18:02 AM
QuoteIn some cases, the citations may have had long-term and more serious consequences than simply paying a fine. More than 6,900 bench warrants were issued between 1983 and 2008 for people arrested or issued a citation who missed their court dates or failed to pay the fine after pleading guilty. A pending warrant can lead to a denial of citizenship for an immigrant, disqualification for public housing, or the loss of a job opportunity if an employer conducts a criminal background check.

Oh noes, people who break real laws after being cited for fake laws get in trouble.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on October 21, 2009, 03:32:36 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 21, 2009, 02:18:02 AM
QuoteIn some cases, the citations may have had long-term and more serious consequences than simply paying a fine. More than 6,900 bench warrants were issued between 1983 and 2008 for people arrested or issued a citation who missed their court dates or failed to pay the fine after pleading guilty. A pending warrant can lead to a denial of citizenship for an immigrant, disqualification for public housing, or the loss of a job opportunity if an employer conducts a criminal background check.

Oh noes, people who break real laws after being cited for fake laws get in trouble.

Well let's assume you are cited daily for the crime of being a bitch and then told to spend each of your days court defending yourself. Surely you recognise how a failure to do so on any given day resulting in a criminal warrant issued after you would be a miscarriage of justice.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on October 21, 2009, 03:35:10 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on October 20, 2009, 10:13:54 PM
The frothing factor will be quite high on this story.

I believe it is not the first time in which you post some story about gay people being discriminated against or otherwise subjected to harassment and/or violence, and then leave a pithy flippant comment like this, you little homophobic shit.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 21, 2009, 03:41:01 AM
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Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on October 21, 2009, 03:45:27 AM
Well I realise the cancerous retard is trying to troll, but he is not very good at it, as he is plainly offensive (rather than being outrageously offensive like Neil) and unfunny in his troll.

So I can only express my extreme hatred for him and rest assured in my knowledge he will kick the bucket soon enough when his cancer hopefully and fortuitously relapses.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on October 21, 2009, 04:03:37 AM
 :lmfao:

Oh wait, you weren't kidding.

In which case it's not remotely funny. Then again I should've known as THE CAUSE is the one thing you'll defend to the end and understand no jokes about.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Camerus on October 21, 2009, 06:05:30 AM
Mart, some day you should really examine all that rage you feel.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on October 21, 2009, 06:13:49 AM
With every day he's turnign more into a bizarre mixture of Siegebreaker and Paul Atreides for the gay community. :(
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Ed Anger on October 21, 2009, 07:52:47 AM
I can't believe I'm doing this:

Good Job Timmay.

I feel sick.  :(
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on October 21, 2009, 08:47:02 AM
Tim's a good kid.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on October 21, 2009, 11:30:52 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 21, 2009, 03:32:36 AM
Well let's assume you are cited daily for the crime of being a bitch and then told to spend each of your days court defending yourself. Surely you recognise how a failure to do so on any given day resulting in a criminal warrant issued after you would be a miscarriage of justice.

I'd get a better lawyer.  Besides, I think it probably harder to change ones personality than not hitting on other men and asking them for sex when in parks, etc.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on October 21, 2009, 12:28:50 PM
America blows.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on October 21, 2009, 12:30:09 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 21, 2009, 12:28:50 PM
America blows.

But does it swallow?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on October 21, 2009, 12:33:01 PM
Quote from: Syt on October 21, 2009, 12:30:09 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 21, 2009, 12:28:50 PM
America blows.

But does it swallow?

Swallow what? Immigrants? Yes.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: jimmy olsen on October 21, 2009, 09:53:10 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 21, 2009, 03:45:27 AM
Well I realise the cancerous retard is trying to troll, but he is not very good at it, as he is plainly offensive (rather than being outrageously offensive like Neil) and unfunny in his troll.

So I can only express my extreme hatred for him and rest assured in my knowledge he will kick the bucket soon enough when his cancer hopefully and fortuitously relapses.

Not very good at it? How can you say that when you respond like this?

Of course, you're so easy to troll that making you dance to my tune doesn't prove anything.

And I didn't even to say I approve of these folks being arrested, which of course I don't. And speaking of being offensive, I think saying Marty will froth about story x is a just wee bit less offensive than you sayin "I hope your cancer comes back". But then again I'm not gay, so it's like you're talking about a real person.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on October 22, 2009, 12:38:06 AM
Give it up, Timmay, you know how those religious fundamentalists are.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on October 22, 2009, 12:46:25 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 21, 2009, 03:32:36 AM
Well let's assume you are cited daily for the crime of being a bitch and then told to spend each of your days court defending yourself. Surely you recognise how a failure to do so on any given day resulting in a criminal warrant issued after you would be a miscarriage of justice.

Btw, I find it very interesting that your suggestion is that when the law (in this case represented by the court telling you to appear) is annoying, one should just ignore it.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 03:54:07 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 22, 2009, 12:46:25 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 21, 2009, 03:32:36 AM
Well let's assume you are cited daily for the crime of being a bitch and then told to spend each of your days court defending yourself. Surely you recognise how a failure to do so on any given day resulting in a criminal warrant issued after you would be a miscarriage of justice.

Btw, I find it very interesting that your suggestion is that when the law (in this case represented by the court telling you to appear) is annoying, one should just ignore it.

That is not what I am saying and you know it.

I am saying that if a failure to challenge illegal charges brought up against you can in itself constitute a crime (or at least carry negative legal consequences) - and at the same time there seem to be no mechanism in place to award you damages for the illegal charges being brought against you and for punishing whoever abused their authority this by bring those charges - this is an easy way to harass and persecute people who are not doing anything illegal in the first place, and a very serious threat to the rule of law and to civil rights.

*not untrue, i.e. you are charged with a crime that you did not commit; but illegal, i.e. you are charged with something that is not illegal to begin with.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on October 22, 2009, 09:49:03 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 03:54:07 AM
That is not what I am saying and you know it.

I am saying that if a failure to challenge illegal charges brought up against you can in itself constitute a crime (or at least carry negative legal consequences) - and at the same time there seem to be no mechanism in place to award you damages for the illegal charges being brought against you and for punishing whoever abused their authority this by bring those charges - this is an easy way to harass and persecute people who are not doing anything illegal in the first place, and a very serious threat to the rule of law and to civil rights.

*not untrue, i.e. you are charged with a crime that you did not commit; but illegal, i.e. you are charged with something that is not illegal to begin with.

Do I know that though? I do know that the way to get things to change, isn't by refusing to deal with the system.  You can't just ignore the court because you don't like the charges (as the article states, many didn't know that the charges were illegal).  And if you do know the charges are illegal, go to court and prove it (then you've committed no crime but not appearing) and then if it happens again, sue the police.  None of this will be easy and will be quite arduous but you can't just throw your hands up and disengage.

Alternatively, if one is lazy, stop propositioning strangers for sex in parks. It isn't safe!
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on October 22, 2009, 10:10:57 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 22, 2009, 09:49:03 AM
Alternatively, if one is lazy, stop propositioning strangers for sex in parks. It isn't safe!

Not that propositioning random people in New York City public places is really a safe mode of behavior in the first place.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on October 22, 2009, 10:52:11 AM
I don't get the attraction. Just set up a civilized meeting through the internet. I mean wtf.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 11:15:54 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 22, 2009, 10:52:11 AM
I don't get the attraction. Just set up a civilized meeting through the internet. I mean wtf.

That is beyond the point - I think propositioning random people in a park is rather crude and I'd never do it myself - I just don't think it should be illegal.

I see it the way I see gay marriage - sure it's not for me, but it is like creating a buffer client state near your own borders - I don't want the borders of freedom to be running right where my personal preference ends.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 11:18:54 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 22, 2009, 10:10:57 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 22, 2009, 09:49:03 AM
Alternatively, if one is lazy, stop propositioning strangers for sex in parks. It isn't safe!

Not that propositioning random people in New York City public places is really a safe mode of behavior in the first place.

I'm just completely stunned by the mindset of a policeman who goes out there to stand in the park in the hope of some low class homo propositioning him. Surely it can't be just the simple homophobia - is this the kind of example where homophobia and repressed homosexuality converge?

I mean it's not like there aren't more serious crimes to pursue.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on October 22, 2009, 11:19:41 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 11:15:54 AM
Quote from: The Brain on October 22, 2009, 10:52:11 AM
I don't get the attraction. Just set up a civilized meeting through the internet. I mean wtf.

That is beyond the point - I think propositioning random people in a park is rather crude and I'd never do it myself - I just don't think it should be illegal.

I see it the way I see gay marriage - sure it's not for me, but it is like creating a buffer client state near your own borders - I don't want the borders of freedom to be running right where my personal preference ends.

Well, as I said in the post you quoted I want it to be illegal. I am sticking to that position.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on October 22, 2009, 11:22:21 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 11:18:54 AM
I'm just completely stunned by the mindset of a policeman who goes out there to stand in the park in the hope of some low class homo propositioning him. Surely it can't be just the simple homophobia - is this the kind of example where homophobia and repressed homosexuality converge?

I mean it's not like there aren't more serious crimes to pursue.

Well I'm sure they catch their fair share of homos actually have sex in the parks, which is illegal.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on October 22, 2009, 11:29:02 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 11:18:54 AM
I'm just completely stunned by the mindset of a policeman who goes out there to stand in the park in the hope of some low class homo propositioning him. Surely it can't be just the simple homophobia - is this the kind of example where homophobia and repressed homosexuality converge?

I mean it's not like there aren't more serious crimes to pursue.

Well I hope for the sake of the tax payers of New York City they are there to catch other crimes and just happened to get those guys in the process.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 11:34:07 AM
Quote from: Valmy on October 22, 2009, 11:29:02 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 11:18:54 AM
I'm just completely stunned by the mindset of a policeman who goes out there to stand in the park in the hope of some low class homo propositioning him. Surely it can't be just the simple homophobia - is this the kind of example where homophobia and repressed homosexuality converge?

I mean it's not like there aren't more serious crimes to pursue.

Well I hope for the sake of the tax payers of New York City they are there to catch other crimes and just happened to get those guys in the process.

Well from what I gather from anecdotal evidence surrounding such arrests, these are actually very often policemen who are out to get the fags at any cost. There was recently a case of a policeman in Chicago who was discharged from duty because he would go to the gay district and give unwarranted DUI tickets to all gays he could find because he hates the 'mos.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Ed Anger on October 22, 2009, 11:35:35 AM
A couple of years ago, they was doing regular sweeps in George Rogers Clark Park in Springfield Ohio for the homos.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on October 22, 2009, 11:37:48 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 11:34:07 AM
Well from what I gather from anecdotal evidence surrounding such arrests, these are actually very often policemen who are out to get the fags at any cost. There was recently a case of a policeman in Chicago who was discharged from duty because he would go to the gay district and give unwarranted DUI tickets to all gays he could find because he hates the 'mos.

Well at least he was discharged for it.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: BuddhaRhubarb on October 22, 2009, 12:19:27 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 22, 2009, 11:22:21 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 11:18:54 AM
I'm just completely stunned by the mindset of a policeman who goes out there to stand in the park in the hope of some low class homo propositioning him. Surely it can't be just the simple homophobia - is this the kind of example where homophobia and repressed homosexuality converge?

I mean it's not like there aren't more serious crimes to pursue.

Well I'm sure they catch their fair share of homos actually have sex in the parks, which is illegal.

:yes: especially when money (and any number of stds) also changes hands.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Zanza on October 22, 2009, 01:17:06 PM
Germany's constitutional court has equated the homosexual "registered civil union" and marriage for the first time in one of its decisions and pretty much demanded that the two legal institutions should be treated the same by the legislative. Based on that precedent, there is no legal basis left for any unequal treatment of marriage and civil union anymore. They can basically throw out the entire law on civil unions and replace it with one sentence: "The civil union has exactly the same rights and duties as marriage".
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 01:45:36 PM
Quote from: BuddhaRhubarb on October 22, 2009, 12:19:27 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 22, 2009, 11:22:21 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 11:18:54 AM
I'm just completely stunned by the mindset of a policeman who goes out there to stand in the park in the hope of some low class homo propositioning him. Surely it can't be just the simple homophobia - is this the kind of example where homophobia and repressed homosexuality converge?

I mean it's not like there aren't more serious crimes to pursue.

Well I'm sure they catch their fair share of homos actually have sex in the parks, which is illegal.

:yes: especially when money (and any number of stds) also changes hands.

So prostitution is illegal too? America never ceases to amaze me.  :lol:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: ulmont on October 22, 2009, 01:48:33 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 01:45:36 PM
So prostitution is illegal too? America never ceases to amaze me.  :lol:

Almost everywhere, yes.  I believe parts of Nevada and Rhode Island allow some form of legal prostitution.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 02:00:44 PM
Quote from: ulmont on October 22, 2009, 01:48:33 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 01:45:36 PM
So prostitution is illegal too? America never ceases to amaze me.  :lol:

Almost everywhere, yes.  I believe parts of Nevada and Rhode Island allow some form of legal prostitution.
:lol:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on October 22, 2009, 02:02:30 PM
Sweden made buying sex illegal 10 years ago. An incredibly retarded law. Selling sex is still legal though.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 02:05:20 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 22, 2009, 02:02:30 PM
Sweden made buying sex illegal 10 years ago. An incredibly retarded law. Selling sex is still legal though.

In Poland it is illegal to effectively run a prostitution ring, however in one-on-one prostitution deals no party is committing a crime.

I think it is extremely retarded to penalize prostitution, especially as sex has been used as a commodity since time immemorial and what terms consenting adults want to attach to sex should not be the state's business. Some people want a lease-like relationship and call it marriage. Other want a one-time-ride deal and call it prostitution.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on October 22, 2009, 02:09:31 PM
Prostitution is ambiguous in Austria. In Vienna it's legal to work as hooker if you're regsitered and go to regular medical checkups. It's estimated, though, that 2/3 of the prostitutes in Vienna are illegals, often from Eastern Europe or Africa.

You are self employed as prostitute, pimping is illegal.

Also, following a 1989 supreme court ruling, buying sex is "sittenwidrig" (a German legal term translating loosely to "immoral" and applies also to e.g. outrageously high interests charged by lenders etc.), meaning that a prostitute doesn't have legal recourse if a customer refuses to pay.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on October 22, 2009, 02:17:47 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 01:45:36 PM
So prostitution is illegal too? America never ceases to amaze me.  :lol:

How is that amazing?

Anyway it is dependent on the local community so if you want your city to have prostitution you simply have to vote for it.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: ulmont on October 22, 2009, 02:19:53 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 22, 2009, 02:17:47 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 01:45:36 PM
So prostitution is illegal too? America never ceases to amaze me.  :lol:

How is that amazing?

Anyway it is dependent on the local community so if you want your city to have prostitution you simply have to vote for it.

...probably at the state level.  Good luck with that.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on October 22, 2009, 02:23:07 PM
Quote from: ulmont on October 22, 2009, 02:19:53 PM
...probably at the state level.  Good luck with that.

Well it is called Democracy.  The problem is the people who do want prostitution already have it, since nobody really enforces the anti-prostitution laws unless somebody starts complaining and annoys the authorities enough to do a sting.  Nobody is really that motivated to fight to get the laws changed.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on October 22, 2009, 02:23:55 PM
Quote from: garbon on October 22, 2009, 12:46:25 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 21, 2009, 03:32:36 AM
Well let's assume you are cited daily for the crime of being a bitch and then told to spend each of your days court defending yourself. Surely you recognise how a failure to do so on any given day resulting in a criminal warrant issued after you would be a miscarriage of justice.

Btw, I find it very interesting that your suggestion is that when the law (in this case represented by the court telling you to appear) is annoying, one should just ignore it.
He really is a lawyer.  No, really.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on October 22, 2009, 02:25:10 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 02:05:20 PM
I think it is extremely retarded to penalize prostitution, especially as sex has been used as a commodity since time immemorial and what terms consenting adults want to attach to sex should not be the state's business. Some people want a lease-like relationship and call it marriage. Other want a one-time-ride deal and call it prostitution.

So since prostitution and marriage are the same thing I guess gays already have marriage in Poland eh?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: derspiess on October 22, 2009, 08:56:23 PM
Quote from: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 11:34:07 AM
Well from what I gather from anecdotal evidence surrounding such arrests, these are actually very often policemen who are out to get the fags at any cost. There was recently a case of a policeman in Chicago who was discharged from duty because he would go to the gay district and give unwarranted DUI tickets to all gays he could find because he hates the 'mos.

He should get a medal.  Drunk driving gays are the #1 cause of highway fatalities :angry:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Duque de Bragança on October 23, 2009, 01:42:10 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 02:05:20 PM
Quote from: The Brain on October 22, 2009, 02:02:30 PM
Sweden made buying sex illegal 10 years ago. An incredibly retarded law. Selling sex is still legal though.

In Poland it is illegal to effectively run a prostitution ring, however in one-on-one prostitution deals no party is committing a crime.

Roughly the same as in France.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on October 23, 2009, 01:56:21 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 02:05:20 PM
In Poland it is illegal to effectively run a prostitution ring, however in one-on-one prostitution deals no party is committing a crime.

I think it is extremely retarded to penalize prostitution, especially as sex has been used as a commodity since time immemorial and what terms consenting adults want to attach to sex should not be the state's business. Some people want a lease-like relationship and call it marriage. Other want a one-time-ride deal and call it prostitution.

Okay, Mart, I'll bite.  What's wrong now, that is causing you to act out?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on October 23, 2009, 02:42:19 AM
Quote from: garbon on October 23, 2009, 01:56:21 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 22, 2009, 02:05:20 PM
In Poland it is illegal to effectively run a prostitution ring, however in one-on-one prostitution deals no party is committing a crime.

I think it is extremely retarded to penalize prostitution, especially as sex has been used as a commodity since time immemorial and what terms consenting adults want to attach to sex should not be the state's business. Some people want a lease-like relationship and call it marriage. Other want a one-time-ride deal and call it prostitution.

Okay, Mart, I'll bite.  What's wrong now, that is causing you to act out?

I have my prostatitis flare up and my scrotum hurts like a motherfucker.

Happy now? :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on October 23, 2009, 11:32:46 AM
Quote from: Martinus on October 23, 2009, 02:42:19 AM
I have my prostatitis flare up and my scrotum hurts like a motherfucker.

Happy now? :P

I just know that there is always a cause when you spin out of control. :hug:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: MadImmortalMan on February 01, 2010, 02:47:54 PM


Huh.

Quote from: Washington Post

Pentagon starts process of lifting gay ban

By ANNE FLAHERTY
The Associated Press
Saturday, January 30, 2010; 10:23 PM

WASHINGTON -- The Defense Department starts the clock next week on what is expected to be a several-year process in lifting its ban on gays from serving openly in the military.

A special investigation into how the ban can be repealed without hurting the morale or readiness of the troops was expected to be announced Tuesday by Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

While the review is likely to take the better part of this year to complete, and even more time to implement, its initiation will advance President Barack Obama's goal of repealing the ban and bring a divisive issue for the military back to the fore.

At the White House, officials continued reviewing options to repeal the Clinton-era policy that the president vowed to repeal. The administration still believes that any repeal should start in Congress and have the backing of top military leaders.

To that end, Obama and Gates planned a meeting next week to discuss, among other topics, ending "don't ask, don't tell" policies. The president was also likely to speak with Mullen, who has signaled he would carry out a repeal if ordered by Obama and Congress.

Lifting the ban poses some emotional questions that go to the heart of the military's command structure and the trust relationships within military units. Among them: Will U.S. troops and leaders tolerate openly gay members in their midst? And if they don't, what should the Pentagon do about it?

The military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy was imposed by a 1993 law intended as a compromise between President Bill Clinton, who wanted to lift the ban on gays entirely, and a reluctant Congress and military that said doing so would threaten order.
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Under the policy, the military can't ask recruits their sexual orientation. In turn, service members can't say they are gay or bisexual, engage in homosexual activity or marry a member of the same sex.

Between 1997 and 2008, the Defense Department discharged more than 10,500 service members for violating the policy.

The review to be announced next week was expected to delve into practical issues that surround changing the law: Can a soldier be forced to room with someone who is openly gay if they are the same sex? Would the military recognize civil unions and how much would it cost to extend benefits to a service member's partner? Would quotas be imposed to ensure openly gay service members aren't passed over for promotions?

Obama has promised to repeal the law but did little to press the issue in his first year as president. In his national address on Wednesday, Obama received a standing ovation from some members of Congress and Gates when he suggested that would change.

"This year, I will work with Congress and our military to finally repeal the law that denies gay Americans the right to serve the country they love because of who they are," Obama said during his State of the Union address. "It's the right thing to do."

While his promise is being hailed as a good start by gay rights' activists, Obama is finding resistance in several corners. Some high-ranking military officers are reluctant to embrace the change while the forces are stretched thin at a time of two wars.

Democrats in Congress are also unlikely to press the issue until after this fall's midterm elections.

This will probably satisfy Gates, who has long suggested that change shouldn't come too quickly. In a speech last year at the Army War College in Carlisle, Pa., Gated noted that the 1948 executive order for racial integration took five years to implement.

"I'm not saying that's a model for this, but I'm saying that I believe this is something that needs to be done very, very carefully," he told the audience.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on February 01, 2010, 02:58:23 PM
Nice!  But I am always cautious at congratulating people wanting to allow gays in the military before they actually do it.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on February 01, 2010, 03:51:53 PM
Several-year process. Yes, it's the gubbermint!
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on February 01, 2010, 04:12:17 PM
Yeah, I dunno what that timeframe means, but I mean when Truman (I think it was) desegregated the military, it's not like he flipped a switch and suddenly the colored-only formations had been fully integrated/vanished by the end of the day.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on February 01, 2010, 04:13:35 PM
IIRC there are no gay-only formations. Except the Navy.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Faeelin on February 01, 2010, 04:16:11 PM
Quote from: Caliga on February 01, 2010, 04:12:17 PM
Yeah, I dunno what that timeframe means, but I mean when Truman (I think it was) desegregated the military, it's not like he flipped a switch and suddenly the colored-only formations had been fully integrated/vanished by the end of the day.

My concern is twofold:

1) The "process" being started is basically cutting back on expulsions reported by 3rd parties (The fact of which they're going on is still a crock).

2) It's gonna be contingnent on several years of studies showing it won't have an effect on unit morale or cohesion, even though we've had studies on this ad nauseum.

So, basically the Democrats could've started this a year ago. I'm not overly impressed.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on February 01, 2010, 04:20:54 PM
Quote from: The Brain on February 01, 2010, 04:13:35 PM
IIRC there are no gay-only formations. Except the Navy.
Aye aye, thir!
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on February 01, 2010, 04:49:25 PM
I'd think guys who talk in their sleep or have smelly farts would be worse for unit morale than gays.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on February 01, 2010, 05:33:09 PM
Leave me out of the armed forces, thanks.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on February 02, 2010, 04:46:40 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on February 01, 2010, 04:16:11 PM
My concern is twofold:

1) The "process" being started is basically cutting back on expulsions reported by 3rd parties (The fact of which they're going on is still a crock).

2) It's gonna be contingnent on several years of studies showing it won't have an effect on unit morale or cohesion, even though we've had studies on this ad nauseum.

So, basically the Democrats could've started this a year ago. I'm not overly impressed.
Obama's learning the lesson from Clinton.  Clinton made one ill-advised comment and he had Sam Nunn and others grandstanding in submarines and talking about naval cohesion.  After that Congress almost passed a law banning gays outright from the military - don't ask don't tell was actually a compromise to save something.

This may take a while, but it looks like it's coming from the military which makes it more likely to succeed precisely because it doesn't look like it's the Democrats who are doing it.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on February 02, 2010, 06:16:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 01, 2010, 05:33:09 PM
Leave me out of the armed forces, thanks.

How about we just don't bring back the draft.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on February 02, 2010, 07:15:54 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on February 02, 2010, 06:16:31 PM
How about we just don't bring back the draft.

Oh we can bring that back, just keep me out.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Ed Anger on February 02, 2010, 07:17:44 PM
I'd like to see Mart dropped from 40,000 feet.

Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on August 15, 2013, 01:51:58 PM
This isn't the gay mega-thread I was looking for, but it'll do.

TMZ goes up to a WWE wrestler and asks him if he thinks a gay wrestler could make it in WWE.  The wrestler, Darren Young, replies:

QuoteAbsolutely. Look at me. I'm a WWE superstar and to be honest with you, I'll tell you right now, I'm gay. And I'm happy. I'm very happy.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-wwe-wrestler-darren-young-gay-20130815,0,2132764.story#axzz2c45BoOqJ

An odd way to do it, but nice to see anyways.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: crazy canuck on August 15, 2013, 01:54:03 PM
Marti hacked BBs account?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on August 15, 2013, 01:56:39 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 15, 2013, 01:54:03 PM
Marti hacked BBs account?

I thought it was noteworthy even though I'm not Marti... :unsure:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on August 15, 2013, 02:02:26 PM
I miss Mart. :(
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: crazy canuck on August 15, 2013, 02:07:40 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 15, 2013, 01:56:39 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 15, 2013, 01:54:03 PM
Marti hacked BBs account?

I thought it was noteworthy even though I'm not Marti... :unsure:

It is, just not in this thread. ;)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 15, 2013, 02:20:18 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 15, 2013, 01:56:39 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on August 15, 2013, 01:54:03 PM
Marti hacked BBs account?

I thought it was noteworthy even though I'm not Marti... :unsure:

You both are also fans of Apple...
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on August 15, 2013, 02:31:28 PM
Quote from: Caliga on August 15, 2013, 02:02:26 PM
I miss Mart. :(

Yeah me to.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Maximus on August 15, 2013, 03:13:40 PM
Quote from: Caliga on August 15, 2013, 02:02:26 PM
I miss Mart. :(
:bash:
Now we can start to have serious conversations about this stuff.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Ideologue on August 15, 2013, 05:43:12 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 15, 2013, 01:51:58 PM
This isn't the gay mega-thread I was looking for, but it'll do.

TMZ goes up to a WWE wrestler and asks him if he thinks a gay wrestler could make it in WWE.  The wrestler, Darren Young, replies:

QuoteAbsolutely. Look at me. I'm a WWE superstar and to be honest with you, I'll tell you right now, I'm gay. And I'm happy. I'm very happy.

Why can't it ever be, "I'm gay.  I'm actually very depressed, but fucking guys does make me feel better"?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Viking on August 15, 2013, 05:53:05 PM
Quote from: Caliga on August 15, 2013, 02:02:26 PM
I miss Mart. :(

Did he stay gone? I didn't notice....
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: DontSayBanana on August 15, 2013, 10:43:11 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 15, 2013, 05:43:12 PM
Why can't it ever be, "I'm gay.  I'm actually very depressed, but fucking guys does make me feel better"?

The phrasing makes me wonder if it's a misquote.  Without that "and" in front of "I'm happy," it's exactly the sort of juvenile sarcastic humor that WWE-types go for.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 15, 2013, 10:48:25 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 15, 2013, 05:43:12 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 15, 2013, 01:51:58 PM
This isn't the gay mega-thread I was looking for, but it'll do.

TMZ goes up to a WWE wrestler and asks him if he thinks a gay wrestler could make it in WWE.  The wrestler, Darren Young, replies:

QuoteAbsolutely. Look at me. I'm a WWE superstar and to be honest with you, I'll tell you right now, I'm gay. And I'm happy. I'm very happy.

Why can't it ever be, "I'm gay.  I'm actually very depressed, but fucking guys does make me feel better"?

What do you think I did during the first 3/4 of 2010? :ph34r:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on August 16, 2013, 01:57:26 PM
Meanwhile, in Caliga's backyard ...

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/428601/august-14-2013/people-who-are-destroying-america---johnny-cummings
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: viper37 on August 16, 2013, 02:04:32 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 15, 2013, 10:48:25 PM
Quote from: Ideologue on August 15, 2013, 05:43:12 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 15, 2013, 01:51:58 PM
This isn't the gay mega-thread I was looking for, but it'll do.

TMZ goes up to a WWE wrestler and asks him if he thinks a gay wrestler could make it in WWE.  The wrestler, Darren Young, replies:

QuoteAbsolutely. Look at me. I'm a WWE superstar and to be honest with you, I'll tell you right now, I'm gay. And I'm happy. I'm very happy.

Why can't it ever be, "I'm gay.  I'm actually very depressed, but fucking guys does make me feel better"?

What do you think I did during the first 3/4 of 2010? :ph34r:
what's interesting is that you didn't do it for the last 1/4. Abstinence for a full trimester... I mean, wow.  I'd never expect this :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Ed Anger on August 16, 2013, 02:12:15 PM
Quote from: Syt on August 16, 2013, 01:57:26 PM
Meanwhile, in Caliga's backyard ...

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/428601/august-14-2013/people-who-are-destroying-america---johnny-cummings

That is a huge backyard, being halfway across the state.  ;)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on August 16, 2013, 02:19:30 PM
Looks all the same from over here. :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: merithyn on August 28, 2013, 10:49:37 PM
Gays marrying is no different than 12 year olds doing so

QuotePa. Attorneys: Gays, Like Children, Can't Marry
HARRISBURG, Pa. August 29, 2013 (AP)
Associated Press

Marriage licenses given to same-sex couples in the state are invalid because the couples were barred from marrying, just like 12-year-olds, Republican Gov. Tom Corbett's attorneys said Wednesday.

Corbett's administration has filed a lawsuit seeking to block same-sex marriage licenses in suburban Philadelphia, where Montgomery County Register of Wills D. Bruce Hanes has issued more than 150 to gay and lesbian couples since July 24.

State attorneys said in a court filing on Wednesday the gay marriage licenses have no "value or legitimacy" and can't be defended in court. They compared gay and lesbian couples to children, who can't marry because a 1996 law says marriage is between a man and a woman.

"Had the clerk issued marriage licenses to 12-year-olds in violation of state law, would anyone seriously contend that each 12-year-old ... is entitled to a hearing on the validity of his 'license'?" the state wrote, according to a story on the Philly.com news website (http://bit.ly/1fk0xSf).

The state Department of Health brought the case against Hanes. Hanes, who says the state law is unconstitutional and discriminatory, is scheduled to appear in Commonwealth Court next week in the case.

More than 30 gay and lesbian couples that received marriage licenses from Hanes say a ruling against him could invalidate their marriages, and they've sought to participate in the case.

The state opposes their participation and their efforts to defend what it calls their "purported marriage licenses." It said the gay and lesbian couples should file their own lawsuits or wait to see what happens with a federal challenge to the state's marriage law.

"This case is about one thing: whether a local official may willfully disregard a statute based on his personal legal opinion that the statute is unconstitutional," the state's lawyers wrote.

The Commonwealth Court last week laid out the topics to be argued at the Sept. 4 hearing on the marriage licenses issued by Hanes. It wants lawyers to focus on whether the court has jurisdiction, given that Hanes is a judicial officer.

Other questions are whether issuing marriage licenses is a judicial act and whether the constitutionality of the state's marriage law can be raised as a defense.

Also at issue are whether the Department of Health has standing to sue, and, if not, the effect of Democratic Attorney General Kathleen Kane's delegation of defense of the law to the governor's legal staff.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Neil on August 28, 2013, 11:16:52 PM
Children marrying is a consent issue.  Gays marrying is an issue of them being disgusting and that we shouldn't encourage Martinusism.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 29, 2013, 01:35:20 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 28, 2013, 10:49:37 PM
Gays marrying is no different than 12 year olds doing so

No one said this Meri.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 29, 2013, 07:03:39 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 29, 2013, 01:35:20 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 28, 2013, 10:49:37 PM
Gays marrying is no different than 12 year olds doing so

No one said this Meri.

The problem is that there really is no need for that example except to create a linkage between the two scenarios on the basis of how appalling one finds the first.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on August 29, 2013, 08:57:17 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 29, 2013, 01:35:20 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 28, 2013, 10:49:37 PM
Gays marrying is no different than 12 year olds doing so

No one said this Meri.

So if I said 'Yi's posts, like those by an insane delusional nutcase, are not worth reading' I would not be creating an equivalence between you and crazy delusional nutcases?  I mean granted I did not directly say that, but that is really splitting hairs.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: merithyn on August 29, 2013, 09:07:22 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 29, 2013, 01:35:20 AM
Quote from: merithyn on August 28, 2013, 10:49:37 PM
Gays marrying is no different than 12 year olds doing so

No one said this Meri.

:mellow:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 29, 2013, 12:41:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 29, 2013, 07:03:39 AM
The problem is that there really is no need for that example except to create a linkage between the two scenarios on the basis of how appalling one finds the first.

The linkage he made was that neither have grounds for a hearing.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 29, 2013, 12:59:54 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 29, 2013, 12:41:12 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 29, 2013, 07:03:39 AM
The problem is that there really is no need for that example except to create a linkage between the two scenarios on the basis of how appalling one finds the first.

The linkage he made was that neither have grounds for a hearing.

That's rather charitable.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 29, 2013, 01:09:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 29, 2013, 12:59:54 PM
That's rather charitable.

I re-read the article, and I think it depends on whether you take the leed as an accurate characterization of the state's position or not.  Based on the direct quote I concluded that it was an inaccurate characterization, but I can see how your interpretation could be different.  Maybe it's true that the PA AG's office did in fact say there is no difference between gays marrying and 12 year olds marrying, it just wasn't directly quoted.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 29, 2013, 01:21:32 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on August 29, 2013, 01:09:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 29, 2013, 12:59:54 PM
That's rather charitable.

I re-read the article, and I think it depends on whether you take the leed as an accurate characterization of the state's position or not.  Based on the direct quote I concluded that it was an inaccurate characterization, but I can see how your interpretation could be different.  Maybe it's true that the PA AG's office did in fact say there is no difference between gays marrying and 12 year olds marrying, it just wasn't directly quoted.


I think you have to look at what Valm wrote. When making comparisons, one should look to make sure it is apt and not easily open to negative connotations.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: merithyn on August 29, 2013, 01:32:51 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 29, 2013, 01:21:32 PM

I think you have to look at what Valm wrote. When making comparisons, one should look to make sure it is apt and not easily open to negative connotations.

Much easier to just assume that I'm an idiot than to read context.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 29, 2013, 01:45:59 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 29, 2013, 01:21:32 PM
I think you have to look at what Valm wrote. When making comparisons, one should look to make sure it is apt and not easily open to negative connotations.

By definition the comparison he was making was to people who are not legally allowed to marry in Pennsylvania.  What group would you have preferred he make a comparison to instead of minors, that is both apt and not easily open to negative connotations?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Maximus on August 29, 2013, 01:46:42 PM
I think the point is that there isn't one.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 29, 2013, 01:51:57 PM
Yeah I don't see why they wouldn't just say they are not entitled to a hearing as same sex spouses are not recognized in this state. No need to bring in the specter of child brides.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on August 29, 2013, 02:04:50 PM
Is that your final position Grab On?  First I was being charitable, then they chose a poor comparison, then they shouldn't have made any comparison.

The dude was trying to explain that procedurally the hearing process is *not* meant as a venue for advocating in a change in the laws.  I think he communicated that.

I also think this is a case of manufactured grievance, as evidenced by Meri's mischaracterization.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 29, 2013, 02:31:59 PM
Actually my position is the same all along when people feel like making poor comparisons, they should just avoid them.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: MadImmortalMan on August 29, 2013, 05:32:59 PM
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/same-sex-couples-celebrate-then-call-a-cpa-2013-06-26

Quote
It's official. The Internal Revenue Service and the U.S. Department of Treasury ruled today that all same-sex marriages will be recognized at the federal level for tax purposes.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: DontSayBanana on August 29, 2013, 09:45:15 PM
Quote from: Neil on August 28, 2013, 11:16:52 PM
Children marrying is a consent issue.  Gays marrying is an issue of them being disgusting and that we shouldn't encourage Martinusism.

Unfortunately, in this case, there's a bad case of Martinusism going on with the analogies presented by the state attorneys.  It's a lose-lose case.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: merithyn on August 29, 2013, 09:52:41 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on August 29, 2013, 05:32:59 PM
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/same-sex-couples-celebrate-then-call-a-cpa-2013-06-26

Quote
It's official. The Internal Revenue Service and the U.S. Department of Treasury ruled today that all same-sex marriages will be recognized at the federal level for tax purposes.

Unfortunately, they are not recognizing civil unions, so couples in Illinois are still pretty fucked. My friends had a civil ceremony last spring, are having their religious ceremony this fall, and now are planning to go across the state lines to Iowa for a marriage in November.  It's ridiculous. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: merithyn on September 27, 2013, 03:10:25 PM
Oooo.... maybe the folks in Illinois have a chance after all. :w00t:

QuoteNew Jersey must allow gay couples to marry starting Oct. 21, because the state is unconstitutionally denying federal benefits to same-sex couples, a judge ruled Friday.

Superior Court Judge Mary Jacobson sided almost entirely with a group of same-sex couples and gay rights groups who sued the state in July, days after the U.S. Supreme Court struck down key parts of a law that blocked the federal government from granting benefits to gay couples.

New Jersey allows same-sex couples to enter into civil unions that give them some of the same legal protections as married couples, but Jacobson said the two labels — marriage for opposite-sex couples and civil unions for same-sex couples — means gay couples are excluded "from certain federal benefits that legally married same-sex couples are able to enjoy."

Same-sex couples who include a federal employee, those who want to use the federal Family Medical Leave Act or those who file joint federal tax returns are being hurt by the state's recognition of civil unions but not gay marriage, she wrote.

"Every day that the state does not allow same-sex couples to marry, plaintiffs are being harmed," Jacobson wrote in a 53-page opinion.

By making her order effective more than three weeks from now, the state has time to appeal to a higher court and ask for a delay to the start of same-sex marriage.

Gov. Chris Christie did not immediately say whether he would appeal, but he opposes gay marriage and had his administration defend the state's current policy this far.

"The judge has issued a very thorough and powerful opinion that shows the correctness under the constitution of our claims," said Hayley Gorenberg, a Lambda Legal lawyer who prepared the lawsuit. "It shows the deep error the state's been making in refusing to let people marry on an equal basis."

Gay marriage supporters were planning to rally Friday night in Montclair to celebrate the ruling.

Thirteen states now recognize same-sex marriages, including the entire Northeast except for Pennsylvania and New Jersey.

It's been a major political and legal issue in New Jersey for more than a decade.

The state Supreme Court ruled unanimously in 2006 that same sex-couples had the right to the same legal protections as married couples, but a 4-3 majority ruled that the state did not have to go as far as calling those benefits marriage. Lawmakers responded by quickly creating civil unions.

In 2011, six couples and children of several of them asked the courts to find that the civil union law was not fulfilling its intention because it created a separate classification for gay couples that not everyone understood.

The state Supreme Court then decided against giving it emergency status and instead sent the issue back to a lower court.

But the U.S. Supreme Court ruling in June on the Defense of Marriage Act changed the argument and the couples asked anew for speedy relief.

Federal agencies have rolled out a variety of policies on whether they will recognize marriages of any gay couples, or only those in states that recognize their vows.

The Christie administration argued that it's the federal government's patchwork of policies rather than the state that is keeping lesbian and gay couples in New Jersey from having the same federal benefits as heterosexual couples.

Even if Friday's summary judgment is ultimately rejected on appeal, the broader case would remain, though it would likely take several months before a trial could be held.

The question of gay marriage is also in the Legislature.

In 2012, lawmakers passed a law to allow gay marriage, but Christie, a Republican who is up for re-election in November and is considered a possible contender for president in 2016, vetoed it. He said the question should be decided by a vote of the people rather than by judges or elected representatives.

On Friday, Sheila Oliver, the Democratic speaker of the state Assembly, called on Christie not to appeal the ruling.

Meanwhile, a coalition of gay rights groups has been pushing lawmakers to override the veto by January.

Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 19, 2013, 05:50:59 AM
So the Patriarch of the Duck Dynasty show is getting cut from the show for anti-gay remarks. Guess the network(A&E) and the show's target audience don't really match up that well.  :hmm:
http://tv.yahoo.com/blogs/tv-news/-duck-dynasty--star-s-anti-gay-remarks-spark-outrage-134231650.html (http://tv.yahoo.com/blogs/tv-news/-duck-dynasty--star-s-anti-gay-remarks-spark-outrage-134231650.html)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on December 19, 2013, 02:33:39 PM
New Mexico joined the party.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Viking on December 19, 2013, 02:42:12 PM
http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2013/12/19/brian-boitano-comes-out-as-gay/

Apparently Brian Boitano is gay. I know, who'd have thunk it.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on December 19, 2013, 02:49:21 PM
I was pretty sure the only straight male figure skater was Paul Wylie.  Should have won the gold in 1992.  Viktor Petrenko pfft.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 19, 2013, 02:51:31 PM
Quote from: Viking on December 19, 2013, 02:42:12 PM
http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2013/12/19/brian-boitano-comes-out-as-gay/

Apparently Brian Boitano is gay. I know, who'd have thunk it.

File this one under: people who shouldn't even bother coming out.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: derspiess on December 19, 2013, 03:04:56 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 19, 2013, 02:49:21 PM
I was pretty sure the only straight male figure skater was Paul Wylie.  Should have won the gold in 1992.  Viktor Petrenko pfft.

Scott Hamilton.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: crazy canuck on December 19, 2013, 03:13:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 19, 2013, 02:49:21 PM
I was pretty sure the only straight male figure skater was Paul Wylie.  Should have won the gold in 1992.  Viktor Petrenko pfft.

Elvis Stojko, Kurt Browning and Scott Hamilton - to name just a few.

If we consider all the couples male skaters the list gets very long very fast.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 19, 2013, 03:14:27 PM
Were those guys all filmed with woodies while performing crotch lift?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on December 19, 2013, 03:15:31 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 19, 2013, 03:13:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 19, 2013, 02:49:21 PM
I was pretty sure the only straight male figure skater was Paul Wylie.  Should have won the gold in 1992.  Viktor Petrenko pfft.

Elvis Stojko, Kurt Browning and Scott Hamilton - to name just a few.

If we consider all the couples male skaters the list gets very long very fast.

:bleeding:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 19, 2013, 03:30:43 PM
Only gays and Canadians watch figure skating.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on December 19, 2013, 03:33:26 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 19, 2013, 03:13:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 19, 2013, 02:49:21 PM
I was pretty sure the only straight male figure skater was Paul Wylie.  Should have won the gold in 1992.  Viktor Petrenko pfft.

Elvis Stojko, Kurt Browning and Scott Hamilton - to name just a few.

If we consider all the couples male skaters the list gets very long very fast.

I may have been exaggerating.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: crazy canuck on December 19, 2013, 04:30:06 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 19, 2013, 03:33:26 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 19, 2013, 03:13:05 PM
Quote from: Valmy on December 19, 2013, 02:49:21 PM
I was pretty sure the only straight male figure skater was Paul Wylie.  Should have won the gold in 1992.  Viktor Petrenko pfft.

Elvis Stojko, Kurt Browning and Scott Hamilton - to name just a few.

If we consider all the couples male skaters the list gets very long very fast.

I may have been exaggerating stereotyping

fyp
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on December 19, 2013, 04:30:58 PM
CdM finds stereotyping too modern.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on December 19, 2013, 04:31:35 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on December 19, 2013, 04:30:06 PM
fyp

Or I may have been taking the opportunity to bring up the outrageous robbing of Paul Wylie in 1992.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 19, 2013, 04:32:11 PM
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.amazon.com%2Fimages%2FG%2F01%2Fdvd%2Faplus%2Fbladesofglory%2Fbladesofglory5-hi.jpg&hash=2150a95966fa2c9c1a7029560f49655401375265)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on December 23, 2013, 02:19:00 PM
So apparently over the weekend Utah began issuing gay marriage licenses following a federal judge's ruling.  Utah. :blink:

addendum: The mayor of Salt Lake City officiated for some of the first gay marriages performed in the state.  :wacko:  Someone needs to dust off that World Turned Upside Down song that they played at Yorktown when Cornwallis surrendered. :)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 23, 2013, 02:32:00 PM
They're probably looking at it as a stepping stone to plural marriage. :)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on December 23, 2013, 02:33:30 PM
That would make sense if religious people thought logically and/or strategically.  But they're not usually capable of that. :)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 23, 2013, 06:42:39 PM
I don't know.  Some of the People of the Pants have good noggins.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on February 05, 2014, 12:49:27 AM
Gay marriage legal in Scotland

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2014/02/breaking-scotland-legalizes-same-sex-marriage/ (http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2014/02/breaking-scotland-legalizes-same-sex-marriage/)

QuoteEDINBURGH, Scotland — Scotland becomes the 17th country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage, after the Scottish Parliament on Tuesday passed the Marriage and Civil Partnership (Scotland) Bill by an overwhelming majority.

105 Members of the Scottish Parliament (MSPs) voted in favor, 18 objected and 0 abstained.

Five last minute amendments putting limits on the Marriage Equality bill, by Christian MSP John Mason, were rejected.

Secretary for Health and Well Being, Alex Neil, stated during the vote: "Scotland is a nation that cherishes love. I commend this bill to the chamber, and invite MSPs to support it."

The first same-sex marriages are now expected to take place later this year after the Scottish Government pledged to speed up the implementation of the Bill.

Originally, the first ceremonies were not expected until spring 2015 because of the time needed to pass secondary legislation and fully implement the Bill, but in a video message to marriage equality supporters, Neil pledged to "work with our Westminster colleagues to make it happen as quickly as possible."
Unlike in England and Wales, Scotland will allow humanists marriage ceremonies.

The Church of Scotland will not automatically be banned from solemnizing same-sex marriages, which is also in contrast to the ban on the Church of England in the rest of the United Kingdom.

All faiths will be allowed to solemnizing same-sex marriages, or opt out if they so wish.

The Anglican, Catholic and Presbyterian Churches of Scotland have already stated they will not sanction their clergy to marry same-sex couples.

"Today will be remembered in history as the day that lesbian, gay and bisexual people were finally granted full legal equality in Scotland, and given an equal right to marry the person they love," said said Tom French, Policy Coordinator for the Equality Network, a Scottish LGBT advocacy group.

"This is a profoundly emotional moment for many people who grew up in a country where being gay was still a criminal offense until 1980. Scotland can be proud that we now have one of the most progressive equal marriage bills in the world, and that we've sent out a strong message about the kind of country we are," said French.

Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon tweeted: "Proud to have voted for equal marriage. Scotland is a better place tonight."

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.lgbtqnation.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F02%2FScotland-marriage.jpg&hash=5f7b91b86f1e3cc83a7e5bcebb6030be47379d9e)

Look at that! Gay men wearing skirts and utterly shameless about it. Disgusting!
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on February 05, 2014, 03:13:44 AM
Repeat. :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on February 05, 2014, 03:22:17 AM
And definitely not a legal ruling.  :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on February 27, 2014, 01:36:11 PM
Gay marriage legalized in Kentucky. :cool:

Just to be clear, marriages cannot yet be performed here but they must be recognized if performed elsewhere.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: katmai on February 27, 2014, 05:11:18 PM
So when is the big day Cal?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on February 27, 2014, 05:25:24 PM
Remind me when your hotel reservations are again, loverboy?  I've forgotten. :blush:

P.S. Fabulous!
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on February 27, 2014, 06:04:44 PM
At least try to be clever, plz?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: katmai on February 27, 2014, 06:15:22 PM
You demand too much of our man Caliga!





Oh you meant me :cry:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on March 04, 2014, 08:46:24 PM
So this is unexpected but nice:
QuoteMyanmar couple in 'first public gay wedding ceremony'
South East Asia correspondent Samantha Hawley and staff
Updated Tue 4 Mar 2014, 9:02am AEDT

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc.net.au%2Fnews%2Fimage%2F5296448-3x2-700x467.jpg&hash=cfe307fad47ce8ca9b32078e7e47a2abb65bcb72)
PHOTO: Tin Ko Ko (R) and Myo Min Htet (L) celebrate their wedding reception in Yangon, in what's believed to be the first ever public gay marriage in Myanmar (AFP)
MAP: Burma
A gay couple has married in a lavish public ceremony in Myanmar, in an event said to be the first of its kind.

The marriage does not enjoy any legal status but followed the customs of other Myanmar weddings.

Dressed in matching traditional Myanmar clothes and garlanded with jasmine, Tin Ko Ko, 38, and Myo Min Htet, 28, exchanged rings in an upmarket Yangon hotel.

The two men arrived in solemn procession followed by six groomsmen in front of some 200 guests.

"My family accepted me," Tin Ko Ko said.

"I am so glad that my parents were understanding... but he had to overcome many difficulties from his family."

The pair, who both work for rights groups, have lived together for 10 years without publicly declaring their relationship.

"We both tried hard to make this a reality," Myo Min Htet said.

"I am almost speechless, I am so happy."

It's a sign of the rapidly changing social norms in the conservative nation.

The marriage won't enjoy legal status but the event was photographed and splashed across the front pages of several local newspapers.

"This is like a challenge to our neighbours, who do not understand us and see us as very strange people," said Aung Myo Min, from the rights group Equality Myanmar.

Same sex relations are criminalised in Myanmar although the law is not strictly enforced.
Also well done Burma for having an attractive couple as your first same-sex union, instead of the usual worthy 80 year olds :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on March 04, 2014, 08:50:12 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on March 04, 2014, 08:46:24 PM
Also well done Burma for having an attractive couple as your first same-sex union, instead of the usual worthy 80 year olds :P

Fair :D
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on March 04, 2014, 08:54:20 PM
Oh that reminds me: today the Attorney General of Kentucky announced that he would refuse to appeal a judge's decision to require the Commonwealth to recognize gay marriages performed elsewhere.  Notably he started crying in the middle of his announcement:

http://youtu.be/xUqqUCPAOYg (http://youtu.be/xUqqUCPAOYg)

Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on March 04, 2014, 08:55:43 PM
Why did he cry?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on March 04, 2014, 09:00:00 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 04, 2014, 08:55:43 PM
Why did he cry?
I watched it a while back, but I think he broke down when he said that he prayed over what to do but in the end decided that he could not defend a law that supports discrimination.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on March 04, 2014, 09:05:02 PM
Quote from: Caliga on March 04, 2014, 09:00:00 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 04, 2014, 08:55:43 PM
Why did he cry?
I watched it a while back, but I think he broke down when he said that he prayed over what to do but in the end decided that he could not defend a law that supports discrimination.

So he prayed to be bigoted and God failed him?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on March 04, 2014, 09:08:46 PM
I guess so. :)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on March 04, 2014, 10:33:14 PM
 :yeahright:

Cal said he prayed over what to do, i.e., he was looking for guidance, not for help being bigoted.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on March 04, 2014, 10:50:47 PM
It shouldn't be a hard decision. :)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: crazy canuck on March 05, 2014, 03:48:08 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 04, 2014, 10:33:14 PM
:yeahright:

Cal said he prayed over what to do, i.e., he was looking for guidance, not for help being bigoted.

Not sure how you explain the crying if that is all that happened.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on March 05, 2014, 03:54:40 PM
Jack Conway was the 2010 Democratic nominee for US Senate from Kentucky, and lost to everyone's favorite guy Rand Paul.  So he's a pretty high visibility dude here.

A lot of people said they were crocodile tears and the guy was just using the opportunity to attention whore given his obvious political ambitions.  I guess that could be correct, but otherwise he was probably reacting to the stress he was under to do something that he, a well educated and intelligent man (BA, Duke University, JD, George Washington University) knew was wrong but felt compelled to pretend to entertain anyway.  Further, as a Catholic I doubt he's very religious and obviously every politician here has to pretend to be a religious nut to have any prayer of being elected, so I would imagine that is something of a source of cognitive dissonance for him.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on March 05, 2014, 04:13:20 PM
Quote from: Caliga on March 05, 2014, 03:54:40 PM
I guess that could be correct, but otherwise he was probably reacting to the stress he was under to do something that he, a well educated and intelligent man (BA, Duke University, JD, George Washington University) knew was wrong but felt compelled to pretend to entertain anyway.  Further, as a Catholic I doubt he's very religious and obviously every politician here has to pretend to be a religious nut to have any prayer of being elected, so I would imagine that is something of a source of cognitive dissonance for him.

That makes the crying odd though. If the dissonance stems from him wanting to tolerate gays but feeling political pressure not - why cry when you take the action you want to take? Unless the tears are that you realized you are doing something that is politically dangerous and does anyone want a politician who cries about that?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on March 05, 2014, 04:14:36 PM
If you cry and mention Jesus everybody in Kentucky will forgive you for your sins.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on March 07, 2014, 11:40:27 AM
Lovely that the Kentucky governor is going to hire other counsel.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on March 07, 2014, 11:42:39 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 07, 2014, 11:40:27 AM
Lovely that the Kentucky governor is going to hire other counsel.

I guess I was wrong on the whole Christian forgiveness thing.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on March 07, 2014, 04:42:58 PM
Quote from: garbon on March 07, 2014, 11:40:27 AM
Lovely that the Kentucky governor is going to hire other counsel.
He's a giant hick, unlike Conway, so it's not surprising.  His hick homophobia outweighs his membership in the Democratic party.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on March 07, 2014, 06:01:03 PM
So England will be enjoying the first day of gay weddings with a televised gay wedding musical presided over by Stephen Fry :mellow:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/skarlan/stephen-fry-is-going-to-host-a-televised-same-sex-wedding-mu
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on April 01, 2014, 06:44:17 AM
So gay marriage is now a thing in England and Wales:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/tomphillips/heartwarming-pictures-from-the-first-day-of-equal-marriag
People were asked what gay marriage meant to them, these guys seem to get that it just means more weddings :w00t:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3-ec.buzzfed.com%2Fstatic%2F2014-03%2Fenhanced%2Fwebdr03%2F29%2F13%2Fenhanced-buzz-21277-1396114628-4.jpg&hash=200d5d5415dddcee056e875824a259b64594a937)

Here's a piece from gay and human rights activist Peter Tatchell (:wub:):
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/03/it-was-long-fight-equal-marriage-finally-it-s-here

I particularly like his outing of the sort of 'establishment' gay rights campaigners as not being pretty opposed to it.

And the gay wedding musical happened. I missed it :mellow:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Capetan Mihali on April 01, 2014, 11:36:30 AM
Quote from: garbon on March 04, 2014, 09:05:02 PM
So he prayed to be bigoted and God failed him?

Homophobia: The God That Failed.  :(
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on April 01, 2014, 04:26:19 PM
This will be of particular interest to our Canuck law-talkers.

QuoteThe Law Society of Upper Canada has requested submissions in connection with its consideration of the application of Trinity Western University ("TWU") for accreditation of its proposed law school. TWU is a private Christian faith-based university in British Columbia and intends to offer a law school program commencing in September 2015. In December 2013, the Federation of Law Societies of Canada determined that the proposed law program met the national requirement, which establishes the knowledge and skills that all applicants for entry to the bar admission programs of the law societies in the Canadian common law jurisdictions must possess. Now it falls to each provincial law society to decide whether to accredit TWU's proposed law school and licence its graduates to practice law. Attendance at an accredited law school is a prerequisite to licensure to practice law in Ontario.

The issue of concern to the Law Society is the "Community Covenant Agreement" (the "Covenant") which all TWU students, faculty and staff are required to sign. It requires adherence to a code of conduct which, among other things, requires abstention from "sexual intimacy that violates the sacredness of marriage between a man and a woman". The Covenant discriminates against members of the LGBTQ community, unmarried persons and members of certain religious groups. If accreditation were granted, the effect of the Covenant would be to exclude such persons from a portion of the limited number of places available at accredited law schools for those persons who wish to qualify to practice law in Ontario.

The Advocates' Society established a task force to consider whether TAS should make a submission to the Law Society and, if so, what that submission ought to be. The recommendation of the task force, approved by TAS' Board of Directors, is that TAS ask that the Law Society not approve the application for accreditation by TWU. Amongst other things, TAS' submission notes that:

   (1) the legislation governing the Law Society requires that in carrying out its duties, the Law Society "advance the cause of justice and the rule of law" and "protect the public interest" and
   
   (2) the Law Society's Rules of Professional Conduct require members to "respect the dignity and worth of all persons and treat all persons equally without discrimination".

As TWU's proposed law school discriminates in the granting of admission on prohibited grounds, by virtue of the Covenant, TAS believes it would be inappropriate for the Law Society to grant TWU's application for accreditation.

The full submission of The Advocates' Society to the Law Society is available by clicking here.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on April 01, 2014, 04:29:10 PM
Where can I click for the full submission of Scarlett Johansson?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on April 01, 2014, 04:31:58 PM
Eh like anybody has time for sexual intimacy in law school anyway.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on April 01, 2014, 04:40:17 PM
Eh - we have all sorts of religious post-secondary institutions in this country that no one has ever been bothered about.  I can't see why having an evangelical law school is any worse than any other sort.

Now, whether BC needs 4 law schools is a whole different question...
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: LaCroix on April 01, 2014, 06:24:04 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 01, 2014, 04:31:58 PM
Eh like anybody has time for sexual intimacy in law school anyway.

the amount of work in law school is exaggerated, at least in the first year. read 40 pages every day, work on a paper, and condense notes into an outline. cramming for finals takes time, though

Quote from: garbon on March 04, 2014, 09:05:02 PMSo he prayed to be bigoted and God failed him?

why assume the crying was for a negative reason? sounds like the guy took a stand for what he believed in and was moved over it
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on April 02, 2014, 08:45:12 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 01, 2014, 04:40:17 PM
Eh - we have all sorts of religious post-secondary institutions in this country that no one has ever been bothered about.  I can't see why having an evangelical law school is any worse than any other sort.

Now, whether BC needs 4 law schools is a whole different question...

The notion (agree with it or not) is that law is different - it is supposed to be 'about' upholding the basic values of our society, in a way that (say) dentistry or math is not. Thus, a law school that requires students to sign a pledge that is inimical to those values should not be accredited.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on April 02, 2014, 09:18:35 AM
Quote from: Malthus on April 02, 2014, 08:45:12 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 01, 2014, 04:40:17 PM
Eh - we have all sorts of religious post-secondary institutions in this country that no one has ever been bothered about.  I can't see why having an evangelical law school is any worse than any other sort.

Now, whether BC needs 4 law schools is a whole different question...

The notion (agree with it or not) is that law is different - it is supposed to be 'about' upholding the basic values of our society, in a way that (say) dentistry or math is not. Thus, a law school that requires students to sign a pledge that is inimical to those values should not be accredited.

Except that:

QuoteWhereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:

TWU already went through this fight when they were accredited to teach education - and surely teachers are "about upholding the basic values of society" in an even more significant way than lawyers.

I see this as a Vikingesque anti-religion fight - nothing more.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on April 02, 2014, 09:20:14 AM
Also:

QuoteNothing in this Charter abrogates or derogates from any rights or privileges guaranteed by or under the Constitution of Canada in respect of denominational, separate or dissentient schools.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on April 02, 2014, 09:27:05 AM
Sadly I have to agree with BB that this seems like it has already been decided (though I don't view it as an anti-religion cause as it does seem discriminatory to me).

http://rabble.ca/columnists/2014/03/straight-to-heart-trinity-westerns-anti-gay-law-school-rules
QuoteThis is not the first time TWU's educational programs have been the subject of controversy. In 2001, TWU and the British Columbia College of Teachers (BCCT) took their dispute over BCCT's refusal to approve TWU's teacher training program to the Supreme Court of Canada (SCC). BCCT's refusal was based on the fact that TWU required its students and staff to agree that they would not engage in "sexual sins," including homosexual behaviour.

A majority of the SCC found that BCCT's refusal to approve the teacher education program unreasonable. According to the majority of the SCC, BCCT did not properly consider the competing human rights involved when it assessed TWU's restrictions on student behaviour. BCCT failed to consider the right to freedom of religion under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in making its decision.

The SCC made the following observations about BCCT's decision:

-  There was no evidence that graduates of TWU's teaching program would discriminate against LGBTQ individuals when they became teachers.
-  BCCT did not require public universities to screen out applicants who held discriminatory views.
-  TWU fell under the exemption created by section 41 of B.C.'s Human Rights Code (the Code).

The SCC did find that LGBTQ students could sign the Community Covenant Agreement only "at great personal cost," recognizing that prohibiting same‑sex sexual intimacy meant, de facto, that TWU prohibited LGBTQ students.

And I like this bit of the editorial:
QuoteThere is something fundamentally unjust in giving an institution, which actively discriminates against an identifiable group based on a Charter-protected identity, access to a licensing regime that should be open to all individuals, equally.   

TWU should not be prevented from carrying out educational programs in a religious context. But, in view of balancing competing human rights instead of creating a hierarchy, a line should be drawn where those educational programs are designed to provide access to a public licensing process that is bound by the Charter. The BCCT decision did not consider this broader public policy perspective.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on April 02, 2014, 09:32:25 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 02, 2014, 09:18:35 AM
Quote from: Malthus on April 02, 2014, 08:45:12 AM
Quote from: Barrister on April 01, 2014, 04:40:17 PM
Eh - we have all sorts of religious post-secondary institutions in this country that no one has ever been bothered about.  I can't see why having an evangelical law school is any worse than any other sort.

Now, whether BC needs 4 law schools is a whole different question...

The notion (agree with it or not) is that law is different - it is supposed to be 'about' upholding the basic values of our society, in a way that (say) dentistry or math is not. Thus, a law school that requires students to sign a pledge that is inimical to those values should not be accredited.

Except that:

QuoteWhereas Canada is founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law:

TWU already went through this fight when they were accredited to teach education - and surely teachers are "about upholding the basic values of society" in an even more significant way than lawyers.

I see this as a Vikingesque anti-religion fight - nothing more.

I don't see ot that way, and I think the facts are against such an interpretation - accreditation is being resisted purely on the basis of the anti-homosexuality pledge students are required to sign off on (and are disciplined or expelled, allegedly, if they break). Get rid of that, and they could be as religious as they like. With you Vikingesque anti-religious types, it is the fact of being religious that is offensive, not any particular act.

The BC teacher's college case was distinguished in the submission on the basis (1) that the relevant accreditation body was tasked in its statute purely and solely with determining whether the education the teachers received was adequate to enable them to teach. The law society has a wider mandate - it is required to uphold the values inherent in the rule of law, and one of those values is non-discrimination; and (2) that society's values have shifted dramatically since the earlier SCC decision (for example, te acceptance of gay marriage and gay adoption) and (3) the rules for evaluating such evidence in Charter cases have dramatically shifted. 

Warning, PDF

http://trk.cp20.com/Tracking/t.c?6h5uy-ckmgf-8vs5hy4&_v=2
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on April 02, 2014, 09:45:15 AM
Yeah I'm with BB. I don't see any problem here, if they meet the requirements. According to the article they do.

I'd be very reluctant to see anything else happen.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on April 02, 2014, 11:22:04 AM
The bigger concern though has nothing to do with religion or gay rights.

Instead, for the longest time the number of law schools in Canada was static.  The last school to open was probably UCalgary in '76.

But suddenly we've now allowed the opening of two more law schools - TRU and Lakehead.  TWU is moving towards a law school, and Memorial University looks to be establishing one as well.  And worse than that, the existing law schools have been substantially increasing enrollment.

But all of this is coming at a time when the profession is not growing - if anything it's under increasing pressure.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on April 02, 2014, 11:45:31 AM
Canada does everything 10 years late.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: alfred russel on April 02, 2014, 12:00:38 PM
QuoteThe SCC did find that LGBTQ students could sign the Community Covenant Agreement only "at great personal cost," recognizing that prohibiting same‑sex sexual intimacy meant, de facto, that TWU prohibited LGBTQ students.

That reasoning sounds really flawed. Would the SCC also conclude that they de facto prohibit heterosexual single students?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on April 02, 2014, 12:50:14 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 02, 2014, 11:45:31 AM
Canada does everything 10 years late.

In this case, yes.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Capetan Mihali on April 02, 2014, 04:54:56 PM
Quote from: Barrister on April 02, 2014, 12:50:14 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on April 02, 2014, 11:45:31 AM
Canada does everything 10 years late.

In this case, yes.

Better late than never. :)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on August 13, 2014, 07:18:21 PM
*BUMP*

yw Mart. :)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Monoriu on August 13, 2014, 08:04:29 PM
I saw this thread and thought he is back already  :(
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: DontSayBanana on August 13, 2014, 10:58:14 PM
Quote from: Monoriu on August 13, 2014, 08:04:29 PM
I saw this thread and thought he is back already  :(

He is.  Postpocalypse just hasn't begun yet.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 14, 2014, 12:05:01 AM
 :hug:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Monoriu on August 14, 2014, 01:14:56 AM
Quote from: Martinus on August 14, 2014, 12:05:01 AM
:hug:

Welcome back :hug:

Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: sbr on August 14, 2014, 02:03:51 AM
It's tough to decide where to put this, but in honor of Marti's return....

QuoteSun Devils lineman tells magazine he's gay

TEMPE, Ariz. (AP) -- Arizona State offensive lineman Edward Sarafin has told a local magazine he is gay, making him the first active Division I football player to come out.

A fifth-year senior, Sarafin told Phoenix-based Compete, a magazine for gay sports, that he began telling teammates about his sexual orientation last spring.

''It was really personal to me, and it benefited my peace of mind greatly,'' he said in the magazine's August issue.

The walk-on lineman, who goes by the nickname Chip, follows the precedent set by St. Louis Rams linebacker Michael Sam. Sam told teammates he was gay during his playing days, but did not come out publicly until after finishing his career at Missouri.

Massachusetts sophomore Derrick Gordon became the first active openly-gay Division I basketball player when he came out in April.

Brooklyn Nets forward Jason Collins became the first active openly-gay player in one of the four major U.S. professional sports leagues when he came out to Sports Illustrated in April 2013. He became the first openly-gay player to play in an NBA game after signing with the Nets last season.

Numerous other athletes have come out as gay the past couple of years, opening the door for players like Sarafin to do it without much fear of repercussions from teammates or coaches.

''The entire athletics department is extremely proud of Chip and is unequivocally supportive of him,'' Arizona State athletic director Ray Anderson said in a statement.

A 6-foot-6, 320-pound lineman from Gilbert, Arizona, Sarafin graduated with a degree in biomedical engineering last spring and is currently in Arizona State's master's program. He has yet to play in a game, working as a scout-team player early in his career and providing depth on the Sun Devils' offensive line last season.

Sarafin has been involved in research for football-related concussions and has been active in the community with youth sports and the Tillman Scholars program.

''We are a brotherhood that is not defined by cultural and personal differences, but rather an individual's commitment to the Sun Devil Way,'' Arizona State coach Todd Graham said. ''Chip is a fifth-year senior and a Scholar Baller, a graduate and a master's student. His commitment to service is unmatched and it is clear he is on his way to leading a successful life after his playing career, a goal that I have for every student-athlete. Diversity and acceptance are two of the pillars of our program, and he has full support from his teammates and the coaching staff.''

Sarafin also received support from Sam via Twitter.

''Congratulations Chip Sarafin for having the courage to be yourself. Wishing you and your teammates much success this season. (hash)courage2014,'' Sam tweeted.

~18 months ago there were no out active players in any major US men's team sports.

Since then we have had the first gay:

Active NBA player
Active Division 1 college basketball player
NFL draft pick
Active Division 1 college football player

and I believe there was a small school football kid who came out before this, but maybe I am thinking of the UMass basketball kid.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: MadImmortalMan on August 14, 2014, 02:37:31 AM
Don't forget that kid who committed to Rice because the coach wrote a letter to his cat. Totally gay.  :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 18, 2014, 04:03:08 AM
QuoteDead Teen's Organ Donation Rejected Because He Was Gay

By Mark Joseph Stern

It's a sad fact of life that some of the greatest injustices sparked by anti-gay animus arise after death. The government seizes money that belongs to your widow. The state tries to keep your spouse off your death certificate. A pastor cancels your funeral because of your "blasphemous" lifestyle.

Here's a new inequity to add to the list: The FDA rejects your organ donation—simply because you're gay.

That's what happened to A.J. Betts, a 16-year-old Iowan who committed suicide after a year and a half of ceaseless bullying on account of his orientation. Betts had always hoped to donate his organs after he died, and though some were successfully transplanted, his eyes were turned away and tossed out. Why? According to the Food and Drug Administration, a male donor who has had sex with men in the last five years "should ... be ineligible" to donate some tissues, including eyes. (This policy is especially perplexing given that donors are screened for HIV before any organs are harvested, and Betts was permitted to donate other organs, including his heart.) Because Moore's mother couldn't prove whether Betts had had sex, his eyes were discarded.

The FDA's anti-gay organ policies spring from the same insanely homophobic casuistry behind their anti-gay blood ban: an outdated, utterly irrational belief that all gay men are HIV-ridden disease vectors. Never mind that modern HIV tests can detect the virus from the moment of infectiousness, or that men who have sex with HIV-positive women and sex workers are only deferred for a year—or that a categorical ban on gays is just plain bad science. Other countries may lift their own gay blood bans, and medical experts may urge the FDA to revise its policies. But here in America, gay men's bodies are still seen as blighted, dangerous, and infected.

Presumably, the medical community's passionate opposition to the FDA's discriminatory policies will lead the agency to revisit them soon. Until then, however, people like Betts, who suffered so much pain in life, will have to suffer one more injustice in death. Betts killed himself because he couldn't live with the cruelty he faced due to his sexuality. Now his mother has been forced to carry that burden. It's a tragic situation, a completely unnecessary mess—and a depressing snapshot of gay life in a country still fettered to fears of the past.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/08/15/dead_teen_s_organ_donation_rejected_because_he_was_gay.html

How silly.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 18, 2014, 06:53:56 AM
Oh slate, so dramatic.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 10:55:39 AM
QuoteLuxembourg's openly gay Prime Minister Xavier Bettel has announced that he is planning to marry his long-term partner Destenay Gauthier, but will have to wait until ceremonies start taking place in 2015 following the country's Parliament passing same-sex marriage into law in June.

Bettel was speaking to the LA Times when revealing that it was he that had been proposed to by Gauthier, with the forthcoming gay wedding expected to take place "soon".

Bettel was open in giving away the odd detail about his engagement, as he told the LA Times "He asked me, and I said yes. I can't give you the date, because it's not official yet". To his credit, Bettel proved entirely relentless in his right to do as he wishes, public figure or not, as he added "I have just one life, and I don't want to hide my life".

With his ascension to power last year, Bettel has became the world's third ever openly gay head of government, joining an exclusive and pioneering club along with Elio Di Rupo of Belgium and Johanna Sigurdardottir of Iceland. However, he was sure to clarify that the success of his campaign did not hinge on the gimmick of his sexuality, as he insisted "But I was not the 'gay candidate.' People didn't vote for me because I'm gay or I'm straight".

Bettel credits part of this disassociation between his sexuality and professional image with the European way of thinking: "I don't know how in the States you think about it, but I think in Europe, what is important is people respect private choices as long as you are honest".

http://www.winq.com/2014/08/luxembourg-gay-prime-minister-announces-engagement/

Apparently, the deputy prime minister is also gay.

Gay-rule and aggressive tax-structuring-supporting tax haven? I think Luxembourg is my favourite new country.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on August 21, 2014, 11:04:59 AM
Oh sure had to put a dig on the US there.  The first country that allowed civil unions in Vermont.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 21, 2014, 11:07:32 AM
QuoteBettel has became the world's third ever openly gay head of government, joining an exclusive and pioneering club along with Elio Di Rupo of Belgium and Johanna Sigurdardottir of Iceland.

I don't think Hadrian tried to hide it very hard.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on August 21, 2014, 01:21:02 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 21, 2014, 11:07:32 AM
QuoteBettel has became the world's third ever openly gay head of government, joining an exclusive and pioneering club along with Elio Di Rupo of Belgium and Johanna Sigurdardottir of Iceland.

I don't think Hadrian tried to hide it very hard.

He hid it in Nileface.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Jacob on August 21, 2014, 01:36:04 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 10:55:39 AM
Gay-rule and aggressive tax-structuring-supporting tax haven? I think Luxembourg is my favourite new country.

Luxembourg has actually been around for a while.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on August 21, 2014, 01:37:48 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 21, 2014, 01:36:04 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 10:55:39 AM
Gay-rule and aggressive tax-structuring-supporting tax haven? I think Luxembourg is my favourite new country.

Luxembourg has actually been around for a while.

Only since the Council of Vienna
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: LaCroix on August 21, 2014, 02:00:15 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 18, 2014, 04:03:08 AMHow silly.

i know nothing about organ donation, but i recently looked into the ban on gays donating blood. if (1) the technology still cannot weed out 100% of HIV infected blood; (2) 2% of the U.S. population has male-to-male sex, but of all U.S. HIV infections, 61% are from male-to-male sex; and (3) there's not yet a reliable way to weed out the non-risk male-to-male sex participants from the high-risk participants ... then i don't think simply uplifting the ban tomorrow would be a good thing. the FDA seems to be willing to end the ban if it could be guaranteed that allowing gays to donate wouldn't increase the chance of accidental infections.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 02:21:39 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on August 21, 2014, 02:00:15 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 18, 2014, 04:03:08 AMHow silly.

i know nothing about organ donation, but i recently looked into the ban on gays donating blood. if (1) the technology still cannot weed out 100% of HIV infected blood; (2) 2% of the U.S. population has male-to-male sex, but of all U.S. HIV infections, 61% are from male-to-male sex; and (3) there's not yet a reliable way to weed out the non-risk male-to-male sex participants from the high-risk participants ... then i don't think simply uplifting the ban tomorrow would be a good thing. the FDA seems to be willing to end the ban if it could be guaranteed that allowing gays to donate wouldn't increase the chance of accidental infections.

But what the statistical risk is in absolute numbers?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: LaCroix on August 21, 2014, 02:35:37 PM
currently it's one unit of HIV risk per two million units of blood. i don't think anyone can say what that number would increase by. it could be increased to 1.2 units or 2-3+ units. if it's the latter, then it's a balance of whether the total benefit outweighs a triple (or more) increase in HIV infection by blood transfusion.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 03:03:57 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on August 21, 2014, 02:35:37 PM
currently it's one unit of HIV risk per two million units of blood. i don't think anyone can say what that number would increase by. it could be increased to 1.2 units or 2-3+ units. if it's the latter, then it's a balance of whether the total benefit outweighs a triple (or more) increase in HIV infection by blood transfusion.

That's exactly my point - I don't know if there is a name for this logical fallacy but if there isn't, there should be - an increase from 0.001% to 0.003% is statistically insignificant.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Jacob on August 21, 2014, 03:10:01 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 03:03:57 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on August 21, 2014, 02:35:37 PM
currently it's one unit of HIV risk per two million units of blood. i don't think anyone can say what that number would increase by. it could be increased to 1.2 units or 2-3+ units. if it's the latter, then it's a balance of whether the total benefit outweighs a triple (or more) increase in HIV infection by blood transfusion.

That's exactly my point - I don't know if there is a name for this logical fallacy but if there isn't, there should be - an increase from 0.001% to 0.003% is statistically insignificant.

How many extra people being exposed to HIV would be statistically significant?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Larch on August 21, 2014, 03:12:56 PM
A former Miss Spain and current 1st Runner Up to Miss Universe came out today as a lesbian and announced her relationship with a house music singer and DJ.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Famenzing.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2F222.jpg&hash=896685616432530628164e6dca146b3fd29f9ff3)

I thought this kind of lesbian couples only happened in movies.  :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 03:18:06 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 21, 2014, 03:10:01 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 03:03:57 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on August 21, 2014, 02:35:37 PM
currently it's one unit of HIV risk per two million units of blood. i don't think anyone can say what that number would increase by. it could be increased to 1.2 units or 2-3+ units. if it's the latter, then it's a balance of whether the total benefit outweighs a triple (or more) increase in HIV infection by blood transfusion.

That's exactly my point - I don't know if there is a name for this logical fallacy but if there isn't, there should be - an increase from 0.001% to 0.003% is statistically insignificant.

How many extra people being exposed to HIV would be statistically significant?

I don't know. Do you think it's a valid ban where for a populace of, say, 1,000,000, you are excluding 50,000 potential donors (average gay male populace) because of an increased risk for 2 people (assuming you do not screen HIV in each case)?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on August 21, 2014, 03:22:51 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 03:18:06 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 21, 2014, 03:10:01 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 03:03:57 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on August 21, 2014, 02:35:37 PM
currently it's one unit of HIV risk per two million units of blood. i don't think anyone can say what that number would increase by. it could be increased to 1.2 units or 2-3+ units. if it's the latter, then it's a balance of whether the total benefit outweighs a triple (or more) increase in HIV infection by blood transfusion.

That's exactly my point - I don't know if there is a name for this logical fallacy but if there isn't, there should be - an increase from 0.001% to 0.003% is statistically insignificant.

How many extra people being exposed to HIV would be statistically significant?

I don't know. Do you think it's a valid ban where for a populace of, say, 1,000,000, you are excluding 50,000 potential donors (average gay male populace) because of an increased risk for 2 people (assuming you do not screen HIV in each case)?

Depends if they can obtain enough blood while excluding those donors or not.

If they can, then the ban makes sense.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 03:24:22 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 21, 2014, 03:22:51 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 03:18:06 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 21, 2014, 03:10:01 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 03:03:57 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on August 21, 2014, 02:35:37 PM
currently it's one unit of HIV risk per two million units of blood. i don't think anyone can say what that number would increase by. it could be increased to 1.2 units or 2-3+ units. if it's the latter, then it's a balance of whether the total benefit outweighs a triple (or more) increase in HIV infection by blood transfusion.

That's exactly my point - I don't know if there is a name for this logical fallacy but if there isn't, there should be - an increase from 0.001% to 0.003% is statistically insignificant.

How many extra people being exposed to HIV would be statistically significant?

I don't know. Do you think it's a valid ban where for a populace of, say, 1,000,000, you are excluding 50,000 potential donors (average gay male populace) because of an increased risk for 2 people (assuming you do not screen HIV in each case)?

Depends if they can obtain enough blood while excluding those donors or not.

If they can, then the ban makes sense.

We are talking about organ donors.

As for blood, wouldn't it make sense to differentiate based on blood type, too? I guess gay donors with 0 Rh- would be more valuable than AB Rh+ yet the policy is the same for all.

And are similar bans in place for other risk groups, such as black females (the fastest growing HIV infection group in the last decade).
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Jacob on August 21, 2014, 03:31:11 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 03:18:06 PM
I don't know. Do you think it's a valid ban where for a populace of, say, 1,000,000, you are excluding 50,000 potential donors (average gay male populace) because of an increased risk for 2 people (assuming you do not screen HIV in each case)?

Absolutely.

Then again, I'm excluded from donating blood as well. Looking at the US Red Cross blood donation page, 38% of the US population is eligible to donate. It's not like like gays are the only people being screened out on the basis of probabilities.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Jacob on August 21, 2014, 03:35:35 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 03:24:22 PMWe are talking about organ donors.

We were talking about blood donors, actually, at least since LaCroix's post.

QuoteAs for blood, wouldn't it make sense to differentiate based on blood type, too? I guess gay donors with 0 Rh- would be more valuable than AB Rh+ yet the policy is the same for all.

Probably, but honestly I'd trust the various blood services to do better epidemiology and statistical analysis than most commenters.

QuoteAnd are similar bans in place for other risk groups, such as black females (the fastest growing HIV infection group in the last decade).

Can't speak to Black females, but there are all sorts of bans in place for risk groups. As I said, I can't donate blood in Canada due to having been in Europe (not even the UK) while mad cow disease was topical, and because I've visited Africa for too long a period. 38% of the US population is eligible to donate, so it's not like these screens are just aimed at "the icky gays" or anything like that.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Jacob on August 21, 2014, 03:46:00 PM
Yeah, just checking eligibility criteria - they don't want the blood of anyone who's spent more than 5 years since 1980 in any European country (including Poland).

Part of the in depth discussion reads as follows:
QuoteThere is no evidence that CJD can be transmitted from donors to patients through blood transfusions. However, nobody knows for certain that this cannot happen. There is no test for CJD that could be used to screen blood donors. This means that blood programs must take special precautions to keep CJD out of the blood supply by not taking blood donations from those who might have acquired this infection.

So yeah, if they're willing to disqualify anyone who's from Europe (or have spent significant time there) because they don't know if the very rare CJD can be spread through blood transfusions, it doesn't seem too egregious that they also disqualify blood from a source that correlates directly with an increase in HIV transmission.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 03:50:43 PM
I don't know if you realise that, Jake, but people in Europe do donate blood - and not all of them are recent immigrants from other continents. So surely someone is in the wrong here. ;)

Arguing for an unreasonable policy by saying that other policies are also unreasonable is not really convincing. Maybe Canadians are just nuts?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on August 21, 2014, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: The Larch on August 21, 2014, 03:12:56 PM
A former Miss Spain and current 1st Runner Up to Miss Universe came out today as a lesbian and announced her relationship with a house music singer and DJ.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Famenzing.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2F222.jpg&hash=896685616432530628164e6dca146b3fd29f9ff3)

I thought this kind of lesbian couples only happened in movies.  :P

I prefer the movies that have both partners capable of competing in beauty pageants.  :P

But serious, non-porno depictions of lesbians seem to be pretty consistent that lesbians don't all have the same aesthetic standards as men. So for all we know, these two find each other equally attractive.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on August 21, 2014, 03:54:30 PM
Marti - Jacob is referencing the Canadian Blood Services restrictions.  You might not know it, but in Canada there was an enormous "tainted blood scandal" back in the 1980s.  Many people were infected with HIV and Hep C, a Royal Commission was ordered, millions in compensation were paid out - all of which is what led to the creation of Canadian Blood Services in the first place.

http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/news/canadas-tainted-blood-scandal

So yeah - they're really sensitive about making sure blood is safe.

But when you talk about organ donations... given how we always hear how desperately short they are for organs, I'd certainly be willing to loosen up the requirements.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Jacob on August 21, 2014, 03:54:58 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 03:50:43 PM
I don't know if you realise that, Jake, but people in Europe do donate blood - and not all of them are recent immigrants from other continents. So surely someone is in the wrong here. ;)

Obviously Europeans donate blood in Europe. However, we were discussing an incident that is governed by North American donation rules, so therefore the American donation rules are relevant.

QuoteArguing for an unreasonable policy by saying that other policies are also unreasonable is not really convincing. Maybe Canadians are just nuts?

What is unreasonable about excluding Europeans from contributing to the North American blood supply?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on August 21, 2014, 03:57:56 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on August 21, 2014, 03:51:16 PM
Quote from: The Larch on August 21, 2014, 03:12:56 PM
A former Miss Spain and current 1st Runner Up to Miss Universe came out today as a lesbian and announced her relationship with a house music singer and DJ.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Famenzing.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2F222.jpg&hash=896685616432530628164e6dca146b3fd29f9ff3)

I thought this kind of lesbian couples only happened in movies.  :P

I prefer the movies that have both partners capable of competing in beauty pageants.  :P

But serious, non-porno depictions of lesbians seem to be pretty consistent that lesbians don't all have the same aesthetic standards as men. So for all we know, these two find each other equally attractive.

Can't judge the attractiveness of the woman on top, her hair is in the way - looks okay to me from what I can see, though.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Jacob on August 21, 2014, 03:59:12 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 21, 2014, 03:54:30 PM
Marti - Jacob is referencing the Canadian Blood Services restrictions.  You might not know it, but in Canada there was an enormous "tainted blood scandal" back in the 1980s.  Many people were infected with HIV and Hep C, a Royal Commission was ordered, millions in compensation were paid out - all of which is what led to the creation of Canadian Blood Services in the first place.

http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/news/canadas-tainted-blood-scandal

So yeah - they're really sensitive about making sure blood is safe.

I was actually looking at the US rules, which are broadly similar to the Canadian ones. In any case, mitigating risk seems a worthwhile objective.

QuoteBut when you talk about organ donations... given how we always hear how desperately short they are for organs, I'd certainly be willing to loosen up the requirements.

Yeah, on organ donations it seems reasonable that a different calculus is made. I mean, if the choice is between not getting eyes at all and getting eyes with an extra 0.0001% of HIV or whatever, I'd personally take the risk. As you say, it comes down to the availability of suitable donors there.

But with blood, given the very high volumes? I'm pretty comfortable with very stringent screening criteria and risk management.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 04:01:39 PM
Meh, I don't really have a horse in this race (I had Hep B, so I'm excluded and anyway whenever I give blood for tests, I am uncomfortable) - I just think it's quite unreasonable. The fact that many countries are lifting the ban on gay men donating blood also tells something (or do you find this to be the case of political correctness gone wild?).
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 04:02:51 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 21, 2014, 03:57:56 PM
Can't judge the attractiveness of the woman on top, her hair is in the way - looks okay to me from what I can see, though.

The woman on top looks like an ugly blonde Justin Bieber.  :huh:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on August 21, 2014, 04:05:27 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 04:02:51 PM
Quote from: Malthus on August 21, 2014, 03:57:56 PM
Can't judge the attractiveness of the woman on top, her hair is in the way - looks okay to me from what I can see, though.

The woman on top looks like an ugly blonde Justin Bieber.  :huh:

Judging by her haircut and her ear - which is about all of her you can see?  :hmm:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 04:07:35 PM
Well she looks like a butch dyke to me. This lets one fill in the blanks. ;)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Jacob on August 21, 2014, 04:14:24 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 04:01:39 PM
Meh, I don't really have a horse in this race (I had Hep B, so I'm excluded and anyway whenever I give blood for tests, I am uncomfortable) - I just think it's quite unreasonable. The fact that many countries are lifting the ban on gay men donating blood also tells something (or do you find this to be the case of political correctness gone wild?).

Nope, I'm okay with lifting/ implementing the bans on gay men donating, assuming it's done with proper looks at the statistics and risk management by epidemiologists taking into account the specific context of the system in which they are operating.

For gay blood donors, it would bother me if the decision was based on identity politics in either direction - whether it be "don't discriminate against gay people" or "gay people are icky". I have a preference for inclusion, but I have a stronger preference for minimizing risk as much as absolutely practicable (so I'm happy if/when the ban on gay men is lifted if I believe the decision is made with sufficient rigour). On the other hand, I would be very much offended if presented with evidence that medical authorities had decided against accepting blood from gay men based on anti-gay prejudice, and then massaged the numbers after the fact to justify themselves.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on August 21, 2014, 04:49:09 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 03:24:22 PM
And are similar bans in place for other risk groups, such as black females (the fastest growing HIV infection group in the last decade).
In the UK (which has now changed it) it was based on behaviour. So if you were a man who'd had sex with another man you were banned. Or a woman who'd had sex with a man who'd had sex with another man you were banned (non M4M here). I think if you visited sub-Saharan Africa in the last year/six months you were banned. Same with certain other areas though I think the concern there was other diseases not AIDS.

Though, obviously, it mostly affected gay men.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on August 21, 2014, 04:51:09 PM
Yeah I have never heard about gay men being banned from donating blood in Sweden. Having had sex with men is key AFAIK.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 21, 2014, 04:52:09 PM
I'm fine. Y'all ain't good enough for my blood anyway.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 21, 2014, 04:52:29 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 21, 2014, 04:51:09 PM
Yeah I have never heard about gay men being banned from donating blood in Sweden. Having had sex with men is key AFAIK.

You know, I always forget about straight men who have sex with men. :blush:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Larch on August 21, 2014, 04:53:39 PM
This is a picture of the other girl, with a different haircut than in the one posted before:

http://www.dssmagazine.com/img/Noticia/big/Vanessa-Klein/20140321-142901-dssmagazine_Vanessa-Klein_3.jpg (http://www.dssmagazine.com/img/Noticia/big/Vanessa-Klein/20140321-142901-dssmagazine_Vanessa-Klein_3.jpg)

Butchier than the beauty queen but still not flannel and boots butch.  ;)

Edit: Changed pic for link due to humongous size.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on August 21, 2014, 04:53:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2014, 04:52:29 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 21, 2014, 04:51:09 PM
Yeah I have never heard about gay men being banned from donating blood in Sweden. Having had sex with men is key AFAIK.

You know, I always forget about straight men who have sex with men. :blush:

I hope you're not making fun of rape.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: derspiess on August 21, 2014, 05:07:04 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2014, 04:52:29 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 21, 2014, 04:51:09 PM
Yeah I have never heard about gay men being banned from donating blood in Sweden. Having had sex with men is key AFAIK.

You know, I always forget about straight men who have sex with men. :blush:

And celibate gay men.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 21, 2014, 05:52:33 PM
Quote from: derspiess on August 21, 2014, 05:07:04 PM
Quote from: garbon on August 21, 2014, 04:52:29 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 21, 2014, 04:51:09 PM
Yeah I have never heard about gay men being banned from donating blood in Sweden. Having had sex with men is key AFAIK.

You know, I always forget about straight men who have sex with men. :blush:

And celibate gay men.

Are those like moderate muslims? LOLOLOL1
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Tonitrus on August 21, 2014, 06:12:47 PM

QuoteLuxembourg's openly gay Prime Minister Xavier Bettel has announced that he is planning to marry his long-term partner Destenay Gauthier,

Isn't he white? :hmm:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: DGuller on August 21, 2014, 06:28:43 PM
Quote from: Martinus on August 21, 2014, 03:03:57 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on August 21, 2014, 02:35:37 PM
currently it's one unit of HIV risk per two million units of blood. i don't think anyone can say what that number would increase by. it could be increased to 1.2 units or 2-3+ units. if it's the latter, then it's a balance of whether the total benefit outweighs a triple (or more) increase in HIV infection by blood transfusion.

That's exactly my point - I don't know if there is a name for this logical fallacy but if there isn't, there should be - an increase from 0.001% to 0.003% is statistically insignificant.
There is a name for the fallacy you committed:  innumeracy.  You can't tell whether the increase you quoted is statistically significant from the information provided.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 21, 2014, 08:16:14 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 21, 2014, 06:12:47 PM

QuoteLuxembourg's openly gay Prime Minister Xavier Bettel has announced that he is planning to marry his long-term partner Destenay Gauthier,

Isn't he white? :hmm:

Not amused.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on August 22, 2014, 12:28:48 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 21, 2014, 04:51:09 PM
Yeah I have never heard about gay men being banned from donating blood in Sweden. Having had sex with men is key AFAIK.

Define "having sex".  :sleep:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on August 22, 2014, 01:03:03 AM
Sweaty men being men together.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Tonitrus on August 22, 2014, 01:06:27 AM
Quote from: The Brain on August 22, 2014, 01:03:03 AM
Sweaty men being men together.

So most sports?  :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 22, 2014, 05:40:53 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on August 21, 2014, 06:12:47 PM

QuoteLuxembourg's openly gay Prime Minister Xavier Bettel has announced that he is planning to marry his long-term partner Gauthier Destenay,


Fixed!
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: celedhring on November 13, 2014, 07:20:05 AM
So, apparently we are the least homophobic country in the world:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B06tYjLCAAAvRNw.png)

At least there's something we do well...
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on November 13, 2014, 08:04:09 AM
Italian head of bishop's conference: "Gay parents undermine the core of humanity!"

http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2014/11/13/catholic-cardinal-gay-couples-irresponsible-for-wanting-children/

QuoteCatholic cardinal: gay couples 'irresponsible' for wanting children

A senior Catholic cardinal has called gay couples who wish to have children "irresponsible" and said they are undermining traditional families.

Speaking at a meeting of bishops in Italy, Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco claimed that all children "have a right to a mother and a father" and that same-sex parents "weaken the family by creating new forms".

He added that gay marriage "only confuses people and has the effect of being a sort of Trojan horse, undermining culturally and socially the core of humanity".

The traditional family is "the stronghold of our country: the charitable, moral and material net that protects people from feeling abandoned and alone", he said.

These comments come not long after controversy surrounding gay marriage in Italy. The Mayor of Rome defied the national ban on same-sex marriage by registering 16 gay couples who had married in other countries. The move was condemned by politicians and religious leaders alike.

Additionally, the Pope held the Synod of Bishops earlier this year to discuss the church's response to issues like gay marriage, divorce and remarriage.

Pope Francis has courted controversy since his election by appearing to soften the position of the Catholic Church on such matters. He famously said of gay people: "Who am I to judge?" when questioned by the press in 2013.

Despite social attitudes regarding same-sex marriage progressing very rapidly, there are still a number of public figures who are extremely resistant to its acceptance. Former French President Nicolas Sarkozy called it "humiliating" in his first television interview since his return to national politics.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on November 13, 2014, 08:30:40 AM
Quote from: celedhring on November 13, 2014, 07:20:05 AM
So, apparently we are the least homophobic country in the world:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B06tYjLCAAAvRNw.png)

At least there's something we do well...
And Pakistan is the country with most google searches for 'man fucking man' :lol:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on November 13, 2014, 08:36:16 AM
Quote from: Syt on November 13, 2014, 08:04:09 AM
Italian head of bishop's conference: "Gay parents undermine the core of humanity!"

http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2014/11/13/catholic-cardinal-gay-couples-irresponsible-for-wanting-children/

QuoteCatholic cardinal: gay couples 'irresponsible' for wanting children

A senior Catholic cardinal has called gay couples who wish to have children "irresponsible" and said they are undermining traditional families.

Speaking at a meeting of bishops in Italy, Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco claimed that all children "have a right to a mother and a father" and that same-sex parents "weaken the family by creating new forms".

He added that gay marriage "only confuses people and has the effect of being a sort of Trojan horse, undermining culturally and socially the core of humanity".

The traditional family is "the stronghold of our country: the charitable, moral and material net that protects people from feeling abandoned and alone", he said.

These comments come not long after controversy surrounding gay marriage in Italy. The Mayor of Rome defied the national ban on same-sex marriage by registering 16 gay couples who had married in other countries. The move was condemned by politicians and religious leaders alike.

Additionally, the Pope held the Synod of Bishops earlier this year to discuss the church's response to issues like gay marriage, divorce and remarriage.

Pope Francis has courted controversy since his election by appearing to soften the position of the Catholic Church on such matters. He famously said of gay people: "Who am I to judge?" when questioned by the press in 2013.

Despite social attitudes regarding same-sex marriage progressing very rapidly, there are still a number of public figures who are extremely resistant to its acceptance. Former French President Nicolas Sarkozy called it "humiliating" in his first television interview since his return to national politics.

A bunch of unmarried, kiddie-fucking men in dresses strengthen the core of humanity, though. Bloody hypocrite.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on November 13, 2014, 08:49:15 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 13, 2014, 08:30:40 AM
And Pakistan is the country with most google searches for 'man fucking man' :lol:

Probably because it's so inconceivable they need visual aids to imagine it. :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: celedhring on November 13, 2014, 09:38:10 AM
The percentage of homophobia for the US roughly corresponds to the % of people living in Southern States  :hmm:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on November 13, 2014, 09:45:55 AM
Quote from: celedhring on November 13, 2014, 09:38:10 AM
The percentage of homophobia for the US roughly corresponds to the % of people living in Southern States  :hmm:

Don't think there is a direct correlation, though. Austin and Houston are among the most liberal cities in the US. Matthew Shepard was murdered in Wyoming.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: celedhring on November 13, 2014, 09:58:26 AM
I was being slightly facetious, but I wonder how much the Bible Belt tilts the scales for them.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on November 13, 2014, 10:04:16 AM
Quote from: celedhring on November 13, 2014, 09:58:26 AM
I was being slightly facetious, but I wonder how much the Bible Belt tilts the scales for them.

Oh probably a lot. But I think this is more an age issue at the moment.

What I find curious is what the different between "acceptable" and "not a moral issue" is?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Grey Fox on November 13, 2014, 10:09:09 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 13, 2014, 10:04:16 AM
Quote from: celedhring on November 13, 2014, 09:58:26 AM
I was being slightly facetious, but I wonder how much the Bible Belt tilts the scales for them.

Oh probably a lot. But I think this is more an age issue at the moment.

What I find curious is what the different between "acceptable" and "not a moral issue" is?

I don't find the sexual orientation to be acceptable or unacceptable, I simply don't care who you enjoy having sex with or build relationship with.

I think, coming from a Canadian, the country with the most "not a moral issue".
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on November 13, 2014, 10:11:21 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 13, 2014, 10:04:16 AM
What I find curious is what the different between "acceptable" and "not a moral issue" is?
I think most of my friends would say it's not even a moral issue. I would.

It's the difference between tolerance (:bleeding:) and acceptance.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: celedhring on November 13, 2014, 10:14:17 AM
Quote from: Grey Fox on November 13, 2014, 10:09:09 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 13, 2014, 10:04:16 AM
Quote from: celedhring on November 13, 2014, 09:58:26 AM
I was being slightly facetious, but I wonder how much the Bible Belt tilts the scales for them.

Oh probably a lot. But I think this is more an age issue at the moment.

What I find curious is what the different between "acceptable" and "not a moral issue" is?

I don't find the sexual orientation to be acceptable or unacceptable, I simply don't care who you enjoy having sex with or build relationship with.

I think, coming from a Canadian, the country with the most "not a moral issue".

That's the way I understood it too. But I think it's the kind of fine distinction that a lot of the people interviewed will probably not have considered.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on November 13, 2014, 10:18:09 AM
Yeah, that's my point that it could be interpreted differently by different people.

I can see someone saying that "acceptable" is more "gay friendly" than "not a moral issue" - for example, someone may have strong views about the right and wrong of relationships, and think that gay relationships are right, not wrong - whereas someone who has a "not a moral issue" approach could simply not care one way or the other.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on November 13, 2014, 10:30:13 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 13, 2014, 10:11:21 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 13, 2014, 10:04:16 AM
What I find curious is what the different between "acceptable" and "not a moral issue" is?
I think most of my friends would say it's not even a moral issue. I would.

It's the difference between tolerance (:bleeding:) and acceptance.

For me "tolerate" has always had a dash of "I'll put up with it, but it isn't really how I'd have things work in an ideal world."
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on November 13, 2014, 10:33:08 AM
Quote from: garbon on November 13, 2014, 10:30:13 AM
For me "tolerate" has always had a dash of "I'll put up with it, but it isn't really how I'd have things work in an ideal world."
Same. There's an implied power relationship in 'tolerance', which is why I hate it <_<
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 13, 2014, 10:40:08 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 13, 2014, 09:45:55 AM
Matthew Shepard was murdered in Wyoming.

You are the only person left in the world who still thinks Shepard was killed because he was gay.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on November 13, 2014, 11:03:54 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 13, 2014, 10:18:09 AM
Yeah, that's my point that it could be interpreted differently by different people.

I can see someone saying that "acceptable" is more "gay friendly" than "not a moral issue" - for example, someone may have strong views about the right and wrong of relationships, and think that gay relationships are right, not wrong - whereas someone who has a "not a moral issue" approach could simply not care one way or the other.

To my mind, it's a matter of whether the issue is on the public agenda or already settled in the minds of the public.

If the issue is being fiercely contested (as in whether or not gay marriage should be legal), people who are not themselves gay or homophobic will end up with strong opinions on the matter - generally speaking, most such folks will, in the West, tilt towards 'hell yeah, positive acceptance'.

OTOH, if the matter is mostly settled in the public mind (as gay marriage is here in Canada - we have had years of Conservative governments, with no attempt even by them to change the status quo), strong opinions fade - it is so very settled that it isn't even a moral concern any more. There is no longer any need to be 'positively accepting' because acceptance has faded into the default position - only a minority bothers to contest the matter any more, and even they increasingly see it as an issue of their minority status (for example, "I can't accept gays as morally okay because my religion ...").

You might get similar results if the question was about interracial marriages. Most people here would say 'not even a moral issue'.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Jacob on November 13, 2014, 12:48:40 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 13, 2014, 10:40:08 AM
You are the only person left in the world who still thinks Shepard was killed because he was gay.

I thought so too.

If that wasn't the reason, why was he killed?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on November 13, 2014, 12:51:18 PM
Quote from: Jacob on November 13, 2014, 12:48:40 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 13, 2014, 10:40:08 AM
You are the only person left in the world who still thinks Shepard was killed because he was gay.

I thought so too.

If that wasn't the reason, why was he killed?

http://nypost.com/2013/10/28/uncomfortable-truth-behind-matthew-shepards-death/

QuoteAaron McKinney and Russell Henderson, now doing life for murder, were not homophobes, writes Jimenez. Shepard was lured from a bar, then driven to the outskirts of Laramie, Wyo., where he was robbed. McKinney savagely pistol-whipped Shepard with the barrel of a .357 Magnum. The men then hung him, barefoot, freezing and barely alive, on a fence, in a pose resembling a crucifixion. He died six days later.

But McKinney was no stranger. Strung out on meth for a week before the slaying, writes Jimenez, McKinney likely had been Shepard's gay or bisexual lover.

"To understand who Matthew really was," Jimenez said, "to alter our perception of him as a martyr and an icon, is not going to be damaging to gay rights.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Jacob on November 13, 2014, 12:53:21 PM
Thanks garbon.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on November 13, 2014, 12:56:53 PM
Also, here's from The Advocate.

http://www.advocate.com/print-issue/current-issue/2013/09/13/have-we-got-matthew-shepard-all-wrong?page=full

QuoteWhat if nearly everything you thought you knew about Matthew Shepard's murder was wrong? What if our most fiercely held convictions about the circumstances of that fatal night of October 6, 1998, have obscured other, more critical, aspects of the case? How do people sold on one version of history react to being told that facts are slippery — that thinking of Shepard's murder as a hate crime does not mean it was a hate crime? And how does it color our understanding of such a crime if the perpetrator and victim not only knew each other but also had sex together, bought drugs from one another, and partied together?

None of this is idle speculation; it's the fruit of years of dogged investigation by journalist Stephen Jimenez, himself gay. In the course of his reporting, Jimenez interviewed over 100 subjects, including friends of Shepard and of his convicted killers, Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson, as well as the killers themselves (though by the book's end you may have more questions than answers about the extent of Henderson's complicity).  In the process, he amassed enough anecdotal evidence to build a persuasive case that Shepard's sexuality was, if not incidental, certainly less central than popular consensus has lead us to believe.

Of course, none of what Jimenez discovered changes the fact that Shepard was horribly murdered, but it may change how we interpret his murder. For many of us, the crime was not simply one family's tragedy — it symbolized our vulnerable, uncertain place in the world. For many heterosexuals it challenged the myth of America as a guarantor of equality and liberty.

All that soul-searching may have felt necessary, especially in light of the legislation the case inspired, but was it helpful in getting at the truth? Or did our need to make a symbol of Shepard blind us to a messy, complex story that is darker and more troubling than the established narrative?

In The Book of Matt, Jimenez examines the laudable, if premature, effort on the part of two of Shepard's friends to alert the media to what they believed to be a crime of hate. At the time, Shepard was still fighting for his life. By the time he died, five days later, the question had been firmly settled, as news reporters and gay organizations like GLAAD rushed in. As JoAnn Wypijewski wrote in a brilliant 1999 piece for Harper's Magazine, "Press crews who had never before and have not since lingered over gruesome murders of homosexuals came out in force, reporting their brush with a bigotry so poisonous it could scarcely be imagined."

Add to that a president who needed to expiate his sins against the LGBT community, still recoiling from the double whammy of DOMA and "don't ask, don't tell," and Shepard's posthumous status as gay martyr was sealed. The defendants didn't aid themselves by claiming they'd lured Shepard into their car and then flipped out when he came on to them. 

But in what circumstances does someone slam a seven-inch gun barrel into their victim's head so violently as to crush his brain stem? That's not just flipping out, that's psychotic — literally psychotic, to anyone familiar with the long-term effects of methamphetamine. In court, both the prosecutor and the plaintiffs had compelling reasons to ignore this thread, but for Jimenez it is the central context for understanding not only the brutality of the crime but the milieu in which both Shepard and McKinney lived and operated.

By several accounts, McKinney had been on a meth bender for five days prior to the murder, and spent much of October 6 trying to find more drugs. By the evening he was so wound up that he attacked three other men in addition to Shepard. Even Cal Rerucha, the prosecutor who had pushed for the death sentence for McKinney and Henderson, would later concede on ABC's 20/20 that "it was a murder that was driven by drugs."
No one was talking much about meth abuse in 1998, though it was rapidly establishing itself in small-town America, as well as in metropolitan gay clubs, where it would leave a catastrophic legacy. In Wyoming in the late 1990s, eighth graders were using meth at a higher rate than 12th graders nationwide. It's hardly surprising to learn from Jimenez that Shepard was also a routine drug user, and — according to some of his friends — an experienced dealer. (Although there is no real evidence for supposing that Shepard was using drugs himself on the night of his murder).

Despite the many interviews, Jimenez does not entirely resolve the true nature of McKinney's relationship to Shepard, partly because of his unreliable chief witness. McKinney presents himself as a "straight hustler" turning tricks for money or drugs, but others characterize him as bisexual. A former lover of Shepard's confirms that Shepard and McKinney had sex while doing drugs in the back of a limo owned by a shady Laramie figure, Doc O'Connor. Another subject, Elaine Baker, tells Jimenez that Shepard and McKinney were friends who had been in sexual threesome with O'Connor. A manager of a gay bar in Denver recalls seeing photos of McKinney and Henderson in the papers and recognizing them as patrons of his bar. He recounts his shock at realizing "these guys who killed that kid came from inside our own community."

Not everyone is interested in hearing these alternative theories. When 20/20 engaged Jimenez to work on a segment revisiting the case in 2004, GLAAD bridled at what the organization saw as an attempt to undermine the notion that anti-gay bias was a factor; Moises Kaufman, the director and co-writer of The Laramie Project, denounced it as "terrible journalism," though the segment went on to win an award from the Writers Guild of America for best news analysis of the year.

There are valuable reasons for telling certain stories in a certain way at pivotal times, but that doesn't mean we have to hold on to them once they've outlived their usefulness. In his book, Flagrant Conduct, Dale Carpenter, a professor at the University of Minnesota Law School, similarly unpicks the notorious case of Lawrence v. Texas, in which the arrest of two men for having sex in their own bedroom became a vehicle for affirming the right of gay couples to have consensual sex in private. Except that the two men were not having sex, and were not even a couple. Yet this non-story, carefully edited and taken all the way to the Supreme Court, changed America.

In different ways, the Shepard story we've come to embrace was just as necessary for shaping the history of gay rights as Lawrence v. Texas; it galvanized a generation of LGBT youth and stung lawmakers into action. President Obama, who signed the Hate Crimes Prevention Act, named for Shepard and James Byrd Jr., into law on October 28, 2009, credited Judy Shepard for making him "passionate" about LGBT equality.

There are obvious reasons why advocates of hate crime legislation must want to preserve one particular version of the Matthew Shepard story, but it was always just that — a version. Jimenez's version is another, more studiously reported account, but he is not the first to challenge the popular mythology. Way back in 1999, Wypijewski rejected what she called the "quasi-religious characterizations of Matthew's passion, death, and resurrection as patron saint of hate-crime legislation" in favor of what she called "wussitude" — a culture of "compulsory heterosexuality" that teaches young men how to pass as men, unfeeling, benumbed, primed to cloak any vulnerability in violence.

It was Wypijewski, too, who wondered if Price — the star witness — simply thought she was helping out her boyfriend when she told the press that he and Henderson "just wanted to beat [Shepard] up bad enough to teach him a lesson not to come on to straight people." If you thought gay panic was a better defense than a drug-fueled rampage, wouldn't you, perhaps, go with it?

Jimenez is less interested in that kind of social analysis, but what's striking throughout his book is how desperate McKinney is to refute allegations that he is gay or bisexual — even at the expense of undermining his own case. Whether it was a hate crime, a drug crime, or a combination of the two, it's hard to shake the suspicion that self-hate and a misguided culture of masculinity, which taught McKinney to abhor in himself what Shepard had learned to embrace, was as complicit as anything else in the murder of Matthew Shepard.

That is, of course, a kind of hate crime — just not as straightforward as the one we've embraced all these years.

For myself, it is muddy enough that I don't know I would want to use him as a champion for anything - nor do we really need to. Enough gay people have been killed/beaten for what are unambiguous hate crimes that we don't really need a poster boy.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 13, 2014, 01:09:07 PM
So, in a way, his death was the fault of another gay- Gustavo Fring.  :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Jacob on November 13, 2014, 01:19:07 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 13, 2014, 12:56:53 PM
For myself, it is muddy enough that I don't know I would want to use him as a champion for anything - nor do we really need to. Enough gay people have been killed/beaten for what are unambiguous hate crimes that we don't really need a poster boy.

Interesting. I wasn't aware of all this.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on November 13, 2014, 01:22:17 PM
So, if an act of anti-gay violence is committed by someone who is a self-hating closeted gay himself, the act is no longer homophobic?  :hmm:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on November 13, 2014, 01:23:26 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 13, 2014, 01:22:17 PM
So, if an act of anti-gay violence is committed by someone who is a self-hating closeted gay himself, the act is no longer homophobic?  :hmm:

Not as that phrase is usually understood, no.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on November 13, 2014, 01:26:02 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 13, 2014, 01:23:26 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 13, 2014, 01:22:17 PM
So, if an act of anti-gay violence is committed by someone who is a self-hating closeted gay himself, the act is no longer homophobic?  :hmm:

Not as that phrase is usually understood, no.

I disagree. In fact I thought it was pretty common knowledge that a lot of homophobic acts are committed by closeted gays in self denial.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 13, 2014, 01:27:58 PM
Was Shepherd's murder an act of anti-gay violence?  I thought his being gay had nothing to do with it.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on November 13, 2014, 01:30:32 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 13, 2014, 01:27:58 PM
Was Shepherd's murder an act of anti-gay violence?  I thought his being gay had nothing to do with it.

The article garbon posted posits the killer was his gay lover. That does not necessarily exclude the possibility this was a case of gay bashing. In fact, a lot of gay bashing happens after actual sex.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on November 13, 2014, 01:32:32 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 13, 2014, 01:30:32 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 13, 2014, 01:27:58 PM
Was Shepherd's murder an act of anti-gay violence?  I thought his being gay had nothing to do with it.

The article garbon posted posits the killer was his gay lover. That does not necessarily exclude the possibility this was a case of gay bashing. In fact, a lot of gay bashing happens after actual sex.

But, of course, it can also suggest that homophobia may not have been the primary motive - if a motive at all.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 13, 2014, 01:41:26 PM
Article made it sound to me like he was after drug money and killed Shepard cause he didn't have any/wouldn't give it to him. /shrug
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on November 13, 2014, 02:00:04 PM
If it could have been gay then it was gay. Mart's Law.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: viper37 on November 14, 2014, 12:53:17 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 13, 2014, 01:26:02 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 13, 2014, 01:23:26 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 13, 2014, 01:22:17 PM
So, if an act of anti-gay violence is committed by someone who is a self-hating closeted gay himself, the act is no longer homophobic?  :hmm:

Not as that phrase is usually understood, no.

I disagree. In fact I thought it was pretty common knowledge that a lot of homophobic acts are committed by closeted gays in self denial.

if you see closeted gays in self denial everywhere, then yes, it's pretty common knowledge.  For normal people, it ain't so, though.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on November 14, 2014, 01:34:50 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 13, 2014, 01:41:26 PM
Article made it sound to me like he was after drug money and killed Shepard cause he didn't have any/wouldn't give it to him. /shrug

All the article makes it sound to me is that Shepard knew the killers and they had a complex relationship prior to the murder and that he was no saint. It does present certain alternative hypotheses, but it does not refute the hypothesis that the murder was motivated by homophobia. This makes such alternative hypotheses mere speculations, and given that the "homophobia" hypothesis seems to have been proven conclusively in the court of law, I'd rather go with the view of the jury than speculations of some hack.

Dan White was Harvey Milk's political rival; he was pissed off at him for destroying his political project; and he was most likely a homosexual in self-denial. That does not make the murder of Harvey Milk not motivated by homophobia either.

The anti gay prejudice in the society is exactly what makes some gay people so self-hating that they becoming violently homophobic. This is in fact the point the article makes near its end. This is pretty much common knowledge and most people - with the exception of closeted gay homophobes, like viper - seem to share it.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: viper37 on November 14, 2014, 10:16:33 AM
Apparently, there'll be a new radio station in Montreal, for gays, that plays only music made by gays, or friends of gays.
So Madonna and Britney are in because they kissed on stage.  Lady Gaga is in because she is "supportive" of LGBT rights.
Local gay artists will be played on this radio.  Hetero artists who never kissed someone of the same gender are most likely out.

I wonder how it will play.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on November 14, 2014, 10:19:17 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 14, 2014, 10:16:33 AM
Apparently, there'll be a new radio station in Montreal, for gays, that plays only music made by gays, or friends of gays.
So Madonna and Britney are in because they kissed on stage.  Lady Gaga is in because she is "supportive" of LGBT rights.
Local gay artists will be played on this radio.  Hetero artists who never kissed someone of the same gender are most likely out.

I wonder how it will play.

Sounds like it will die. SF had a dance/pop station that had as its key djs, several gay guys. Radio show in the morning was gay guys. One day it was suddenly replaced by a hip-hop station. It had been bought out. I'm not sure why a more restrictive station would fare better in Montreal.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on November 14, 2014, 10:23:43 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 14, 2014, 10:16:33 AM
Apparently, there'll be a new radio station in Montreal, for gays, that plays only music made by gays, or friends of gays.
So Madonna and Britney are in because they kissed on stage.  Lady Gaga is in because she is "supportive" of LGBT rights.
Local gay artists will be played on this radio.  Hetero artists who never kissed someone of the same gender are most likely out.

I wonder how it will play.

Can't imagine there is a big enough audience of gays who care more about exclusivity than about playing whatever music they want to hear.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on November 14, 2014, 10:28:32 AM
Quote from: Malthus on November 14, 2014, 10:23:43 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 14, 2014, 10:16:33 AM
Apparently, there'll be a new radio station in Montreal, for gays, that plays only music made by gays, or friends of gays.
So Madonna and Britney are in because they kissed on stage.  Lady Gaga is in because she is "supportive" of LGBT rights.
Local gay artists will be played on this radio.  Hetero artists who never kissed someone of the same gender are most likely out.

I wonder how it will play.

Can't imagine there is a big enough audience of gays who care more about exclusivity than about playing whatever music they want to hear.

Yeah seems like it would only be of interest to those gays interested in forming a completely separate society.  Maybe Montreal has a high proportion of those? :D
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Maximus on November 14, 2014, 03:57:44 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2014, 10:28:32 AM
Yeah seems like it would only be of interest to those gays interested in forming a completely separate society.  Maybe Montreal has a high proportion of those? :D
They call it a distinct society.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on November 16, 2014, 05:02:27 PM
Quote from: Malthus on November 14, 2014, 10:23:43 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 14, 2014, 10:16:33 AM
Apparently, there'll be a new radio station in Montreal, for gays, that plays only music made by gays, or friends of gays.
So Madonna and Britney are in because they kissed on stage.  Lady Gaga is in because she is "supportive" of LGBT rights.
Local gay artists will be played on this radio.  Hetero artists who never kissed someone of the same gender are most likely out.

I wonder how it will play.

Can't imagine there is a big enough audience of gays who care more about exclusivity than about playing whatever music they want to hear.

Now, if they started to call for the death of all muslims, that could probably get more traction among Montreal gays. :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on November 16, 2014, 05:02:56 PM
Quote from: Maximus on November 14, 2014, 03:57:44 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 14, 2014, 10:28:32 AM
Yeah seems like it would only be of interest to those gays interested in forming a completely separate society.  Maybe Montreal has a high proportion of those? :D
They call it a distinct society.
We prefer the word "demimonde".  :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Siege on November 16, 2014, 05:16:23 PM
Gay people suck!
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on November 16, 2014, 05:19:04 PM
Quote from: Siege on November 16, 2014, 05:16:23 PM
Gay people suck!


Well yes. :huh:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Siege on November 16, 2014, 05:25:46 PM
I love Dr Dre.
Great businessman, great composer.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 16, 2014, 05:27:00 PM
Did Dre come out?  :huh:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Siege on November 16, 2014, 05:28:02 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRv1f_PnE0Q
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: MadImmortalMan on November 16, 2014, 05:38:14 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 16, 2014, 05:27:00 PM
Did Dre come out?  :huh:

Nah that's just what came up when Siegy rolled his "what to post" die.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Siege on November 16, 2014, 05:39:56 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 16, 2014, 05:38:14 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on November 16, 2014, 05:27:00 PM
Did Dre come out?  :huh:

Nah that's just what came up when Siegy rolled his "what to post" die.

Damit, you know the entrails of my underwear...
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 16, 2014, 07:41:51 PM
Quote from: MadImmortalMan on November 16, 2014, 05:38:14 PM
Nah that's just what came up when Siegy rolled his "what to post" die.

Kabala!  :Joos
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on November 19, 2014, 10:40:41 AM
Quote11/18/2014

Former 'Ex-Gay' Leader John Smid Marries His Same-Sex Partner In Oklahoma

File this under, "Signs we've almost won."

John Smid (above right), the longtime leader of one of the most prominent "ex-gay" therapy programs in the US, has married his same-sex partner — in Oklahoma, no less.

Smid served as director of Love In Action and spent 11 years on the board of Exodus International. Three years ago, Smid publicly renounced "ex-gay" therapy and came out as gay.


Smid said he and his partner, Larry McQueen (above left), obtained their marriage license in Hugo, Oklahoma — a 35-minute drive from their home in Paris, Texas — before holding a ceremony in Tulsa on Sunday.

"I believe that due to my former notoriety, my marriage will definitely have its impact," Smid told Towleroad on Monday. "I believe it is encouraging for other former ex-gays, and maybe even those who are still trying to hold on to their ex-gay belief system. We think our relationship reveals something very normal, not strange or deceptive gay stereotypes. We have come to realize that our marriage is very much the same as your average heterosexual marriage."

Smid has apologized extensively for his role at Love In Action — penning a book and reaching out to survivors of the program individually. He has pointed out that the leaders of "ex-gay" therapy programs are often victims, too.

Asked whether there are still those in the LGBT community who don't think he deserves to be happily married, Smid said, "No actually, I think that's been worked out, but you never know, there may be some."

Smid has been married twice before — both times to women. He had two children in the 1970s before living as openly gay for several years in the 1980s.

After marrying again and spending two decades in the "ex-gay" movement, Smid said he began to drift away from it in 2005, when Zach Stark, a teenager in Love In Action's residential treatment program, posted cries for help on MySpace.

The posts fueled protests outside Love in Action, as well as stories in the national media. One of the protesters was Morgan Fox, a filmmaker who eventually directed a documentary about the experience called, "This Is What Love In Action Looks Like." Smid agreed to be interviewed by Fox, and they became friends.

After leaving Love in Action, Smid launched his own ministry, Grace Rivers, which now focuses on the gay community. He divorced his second wife in 2011 and moved to Texas to live with McQueen last year.

"I realized this week that my relationship with Larry is a mirror I see in every day," Smid wrote in announcing their marriage on Facebook. "For most of my life, the mirror I saw reflected my mistakes, shortcomings and failures. The reflection I see today with Larry shows me the positive things in my life, my strengths, gifts and talents. I see how I can succeed at a mutual intimate and loving relationship. For this, I am truly grateful.

"At this time our federal government recognizes our legal marriage, our home state of Texas does not," Smid wrote. "However, we hope that Texas will soon accept our marriage as legitimate and legal."

http://www.towleroad.com/2014/11/former-ex-gay-leader-john-smid-gets-same-sex-married-in-oklahoma.html

Nothing cures the desire to have sex as well as getting married. Amirite? :perv:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: viper37 on November 19, 2014, 03:38:33 PM
Benji the gay bull saved (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30096906)

QuoteA bull branded gay, has been saved from the slaughterhouse by charity donations, including £5,000 from Sam Simon, co-creator of the Simpsons.

Benjy, from County Mayo, Ireland, was destined for the abattoir after showing more interest in breeding with other bulls than cows.

Gay and animal rights campaigners launched a joint online campaign to save Benjy. It went viral.

Homosexual behaviour has been observed in 1,500 animal species.
'Large lamb'

Benjy's story first came to light when his owner mentioned to friend and local journalist, Joanna McNicholas, that Benjy was not fulfilling his farm role, and would have to be reluctantly sent for slaughter.

Ms McNicholas said: "He looks like a large lamb. He's very gentle and very quiet."

After Benjy's plight appeared in the Connaught Telegraph, it was picked up by the Animal Rights Action Network (ARAN) in Ireland.

The Gay UK, an online daily magazine for the gay community, launched a Crowdfunder campaign to raise £5,000 to buy Benjy and transport him to an animal sanctuary.
Bart and Benjy

In less than a week the campaign has raised over £9,000, including the surprise donation from Mr Simon on Tuesday morning.

Mr Simon was diagnosed with terminal cancer in 2012.

He is vegan and has donated to several projects to rescue animals from cruelty.

"All animals have a dire destiny in the meat trade, but to kill this bull because he's gay would've been a double tragedy," said Mr Simon in a statement.

He said he was glad to help "make Benjy's fate a sanctuary rather than a sandwich".
Retirement

Benjy will now be transported from Ireland to Hillside Animal Sanctuary in Norwich, and the extra funding will be used to ensure his lifelong welfare, said John Carmody of ARAN.

Ms McNicholas has not seen Benjy since the the campaign surpassed its target, but his owner reported that Benjy was "glowing" over the good news.

According to Ms McNicholas, the challenge of dealing with gay bulls in farming is not widely talked about. The animals are seen as "no good" or "useless".

Lions, penguins and cheetahs have all been observed to exhibit homosexual behaviour.

Bats are widely thought to be the animals with the highest rate of homosexuality among their male population.


Peta, I get it.  But gays as well?  There are people in the world I'll never understand.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on November 19, 2014, 04:16:04 PM
I ignored that as I didn't have any idea why anyone would care.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on November 19, 2014, 04:35:20 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 19, 2014, 03:38:33 PM
Benji the gay bull saved (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30096906)

Peta, I get it.  But gays as well?  There are people in the world I'll never understand.

Perhaps gay bulls don't taste as good?  :hmm:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on November 19, 2014, 04:40:37 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 19, 2014, 03:38:33 PM

Quote
Bats are widely thought to be the animals with the highest rate of homosexuality among their male population.
I don't think it's okay for an article to just drop this sort of fact at the end and not go into it :mellow:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 19, 2014, 04:45:34 PM
What species has the highest percentage of dykes?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on November 19, 2014, 04:53:20 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 19, 2014, 04:45:34 PM
What species has the highest percentage of dykes?

Amsterdam.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on November 19, 2014, 04:53:39 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on November 19, 2014, 04:40:37 PM
Quote from: viper37 on November 19, 2014, 03:38:33 PM

Quote
Bats are widely thought to be the animals with the highest rate of homosexuality among their male population.
I don't think it's okay for an article to just drop this sort of fact at the end and not go into it :mellow:

That explains Batman.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on November 20, 2014, 05:04:15 AM
QuoteCitigroup Risk Executive Miller Found Dead in New York

By Dakin Campbell, Chris Dolmetsch and Stephen Miller Nov 20, 2014 6:01 AM GMT+0100

Shawn D. Miller, a Citigroup Inc. (C) managing director who was global head of environmental and social risk management, was found dead in his New York apartment after suffering a neck wound, police said.

Miller, 42, was found unconscious two days ago in the bathtub of his Greenwich Street apartment in lower Manhattan with a neck laceration, the New York City Police Department said in a statement. Medics declared him dead after responding to an emergency call at 3:11 p.m. and investigators are waiting for the medical examiner to determine a cause of death, police said.

The New York Post reported that Miller's throat was slashed and that no knife was recovered, leading authorities to suspect foul play. The Wall Street Journal, citing a law enforcement official, reported that police are seeking to talk with a man who was seen in the elevator with Miller before 6:30 p.m. on Nov. 15 and appeared to have a dispute with him.

Miller "was highly regarded at Citi and across the financial services industry as a thought leader and tireless advocate for environmental and sustainable business practices," bank executives wrote in a memo to employees in his division. "He will be greatly missed by all who knew him."

Doorman's Discovery

Investigators didn't find weapons or signs of forced entry, police said. The building's doorman found Miller after his boyfriend said he was unable to reach him, police said.

Miller advised executives and clients on sustainability matters, including environmental and social policies related to industries such as mining and renewable energy, according to his LinkedIn profile. He helped oversee the development and implementation of policies in more than 100 countries.

In 1995, he joined the International Finance Corp., the private sector investment arm of the World Bank Group, where he helped evaluate finance risk in emerging markets, according to his LinkedIn profile.

Miller joined Citigroup in 2004 as part of the firm's project to implement a set of finance industry-developed sustainability practices known as the Equator Principles, the profile shows. He was a recipient of a 2007 Financial Times Sustainable Banking Award.

He received a master's degree in international relations from the Maxwell School of Citizenship & Public Affairs at Syracuse University and was a fellow in Bengali at the South Asia Center at the Maxwell School and the American Institute of Indian Studies in Calcutta, according to the LinkedIn page.

To contact the reporters on this story: Dakin Campbell in New York at [email protected]; Chris Dolmetsch in New York State Supreme Court in Manhattan at

[email protected]; Stephen Miller in New York at
[email protected]
To contact the editors responsible for this story: Peter Eichenbaum at [email protected]; Michael Hytha at [email protected]; Charles W. Stevens at [email protected] Dan Kraut

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-19/citigroup-s-risk-management-executive-shawn-miller-found-dead.html

Reason why we do not get gay CEOs - they do not last long enough. :(
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on November 20, 2014, 05:05:52 AM
Incidentally, I love the NYC police's restraint - a guy gets found with his throat slashed and they *suspect* foul play.  :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 20, 2014, 05:28:27 AM
Best to let the doctor take a look first.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on November 20, 2014, 10:10:50 AM
He could have slashed his own throat and still had enough strength left to wash and put the knife away, cleaned up all the blood, and then crawled into his bathtub to die so he didn't dirty the floor. 
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on November 20, 2014, 11:00:49 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 20, 2014, 10:10:50 AM
He could have slashed his own throat and still had enough strength left to wash and put the knife away, cleaned up all the blood, and then crawled into his bathtub to die so he didn't dirty the floor. 

I saw a couple "media outlets" noted suicide as possible factor in their headlines. Even daily mail though said that he was noted entering building with a man and then no weapon was found nearby body.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on November 21, 2014, 08:07:42 AM
Quote from: Martinus on November 20, 2014, 05:05:52 AM
Incidentally, I love the NYC police's restraint - a guy gets found with his throat slashed and they *suspect* foul play.  :P
IIRC Charles Rocket killed himself with a self-inflicted throat wound.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Solmyr on November 27, 2014, 01:42:39 PM
The Finnish parliament is going to vote tomorrow on gay marriage. There's been a lot of heated discussion in the last few months, the vote is the result of a citizens' initiative proposal (a system where if you get at least 50k signatures for a law proposal, the parliament has to discuss it). Gay marriage laws have already been repeatedly torpedoed by the parliament's law committee (which is just barely dominated by conservatives), but at the moment it looks like it's going to pass in the general vote tomorrow (slightly over half of the deputies are known to be in favor). The Greens and the Left Alliance are obviously fully for it, the Swedish party is mostly too. The National Coalition (current PM's party and one which I normally vote for) is very split between mostly older conservatives and younger liberals, but the latter are in a clear majority. Opponents of gay marriage include the Christian Democrats, Center Party (though there are quite many dissenters), and the True Finns (conservative nationalists/crazies). The funny thing is that the Center Party is currently leading the gallup polls very strongly and the next parliamentary elections are in spring, so if they get to form the next government, they could be stuck with having to implement the law they oppose. Anyway, waiting and hoping for Finland to join the other Scandinavians in the civilized world... :)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Solmyr on November 29, 2014, 10:48:24 AM
And gay marriage was legalized by the parliament with votes of 105 for and 92 against, amid lots of moaning by religious fundamentalists. This does not mean the law changes immediately, as there will need to be implementation done by the government, which will not happen until the next elections in spring. As I said above, the next government and parliament may well be majority conservative, so it remains to be seen whether they will attempt to stall or torpedo the new laws...

EDIT: Grauniad article here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/28/finland-legalises-gay-marriage
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on December 01, 2014, 07:00:38 AM
As already posted elsewhere, Poland has the first openly gay politician elected in majority elections (i.e. where one needs to get more than half of votes to get elected).

QuoteFirst gay mayor elected in Poland

Published 01/12/2014 | 10:36

Voters in Poland have elected the country's first openly gay mayor.

Robert Biedron, who already made history in 2011 by becoming the first openly gay politician in parliament, was elected mayor of the small city of Slupsk in northern Poland.

Results have been released of the run-off race, which took place on Sunday.

The elections for regional parliaments and municipal government saw a record number of openly gay candidates, though none of the others won seats. Most of them are young and making their first runs for office, and they mostly represented left-wing parties that did poorly. The elections took place in two rounds over two weeks.

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/first-gay-mayor-elected-in-poland-30787488.html

My boyfriend is friends with the guy, and my very good friend is also very good friends with the guy's boyfriend. Are we: gay mafia?  :ph34r:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on December 01, 2014, 07:03:38 AM
Here for a slightly broader coverage:

QuoteSlupsk gains Poland's first openly gay mayor?

01.12.2014 10:32

Robert Biedron, an LGBT campaigner and member of maverick MP Janusz Palikot's ultra-liberal 'Your Movement', won the mayoral elections in Slupsk, northern Poland, on Sunday, thus possibly becoming Poland's first openly gay mayor.

The 38-year-old managed to muster 57.08 percent of the ballot (15,308 votes), beating the ruling Civic Platform's candidate Zbigniew Konwinski, who received 42.92 percent (11,511 votes). In the first round of voting on 16 November, Biedron managed to garner 20.34 percent, coming second to Civic Platform's Konwinski (29.09), but beating Law and Justice's candidate Robert Kujawski (18.65 percent).

The result turned heads as previous polls predicted that Konwinski and Kujawski would go head-to-head in the second round. Robert Biedron is a graduate of political and social science from the University of Warmia and Mazuria in Olsztyn, and is better known for setting up and running the Campaign Against Homophobia.

In 2011 he became an MP from the Gdynia-Slupsk constituency, winning almost 17,000 votes.

Speaking to the PAP news agency following his victory, Biedron said that "I will lead a very modest [local government], as this town is modest, as well as being one of the most debt-ridden in Poland."

"The three limousines which are available to the mayor will no longer be mine, as I go everywhere by bicycle," Biedron underlined, adding that he is also to move to the town. (jb)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on December 01, 2014, 07:31:33 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 01, 2014, 07:00:38 AM
My boyfriend is friends with the guy, and my very good friend is also very good friends with the guy's boyfriend. Are we: gay mafia?  :ph34r:
You are: movers and shakers! :cool:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on December 01, 2014, 03:56:44 PM
Movers are weird.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on December 01, 2014, 04:53:57 PM
There are few more articles on this on the English language sites, which offer more background, but not going to repost them all - just thought I'd share this little story which I found amusing:

QuoteHe attended a local soccer match during the campaign and was heckled with homophobic slurs. After the first round, he was by chance approached by one of the men who shouted the insults.

"He said, 'of eight candidates you were the only one we didn't expect, but you were the only one who came to our game. You have balls, so we voted for you,'" Biedron recalled.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 01, 2014, 05:59:50 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 01, 2014, 07:00:38 AM
My boyfriend is friends with the guy, and my very good friend is also very good friends with the guy's boyfriend. Are we: gay mafia?  :ph34r:

It's not a gay mafia until you start doing special favors for each other.  For example, if he hires a bunch of gays to work in the mayor's office.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Tonitrus on December 01, 2014, 08:37:37 PM
Meanwhile, in China....

QuoteChinese Gay Dating App Grows to 15 Million Users
BEIJING — Dec 1, 2014, 9:54 AM ET
By LOUISE WATT and ARITZ PARRA Associated Press
China Gay Dating App

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.abcnews.com%2Fimages%2FTechnology%2FWireAP_051cc0f400f140d085b2496e9e851f05_16x9_992.jpg&hash=bdd7e57b84f8102d08da16593cedeb89c6587f18)

In this photo taken Thursday, Nov. 27, 2014, condom shaped mascots prepare for an AIDS awareness event at the office Blue City in Beijing, China. Danlan.org, a website for gay people to share experiences, has spawned a dating app specifically for gay... View Full Caption The Associated Press

By day, Ma Baoli was a high-ranking officer in a seaside city police force. By night, he ran a website for gay people to share experiences and on which he spoke under a pseudonym about the pressure he faced as a homosexual.

After several years, the police force found out and told him he could not run a private website that was earning money from advertisements while serving as a police officer.

Ma chose his website, a move that later proved fruitful. His Danlan.org has spawned a Chinese-language dating app for men called Blued that has garnered 15 million users, 3 million of them outside China, over two years.

And last month, his company, Blue City, received $30 million in funding from Silicon Valley venture capital company DCM Ventures. Ma hopes to use the money to expand abroad and possibly prepare for an IPO. He is also considering launching a dating app for lesbians.

In a country where the government considers any activism dangerous and where homosexuality has traditionally been taboo, Ma has managed to build his business partly by reaching out to government agencies and showing them he can provide a public service in spreading safe-sex messages.

In 2012, he was invited to meet with now-Premier Li Keqiang because of his AIDS prevention work.

Wu Zunyou, director of the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention's AIDS and sexually transmitted diseases center, praised the app for its usefulness in conveying information to the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender, or LGBT, community.

"It's very hard to receive so many registered users in such a short time," Wu told The Associated Press last week at an AIDS awareness event held by Blue City and also attended by local government officials. "None of our public awareness websites can receive such attention. This is a very important channel to be able to spread information about AIDS prevention among the LGBT community."

The app allows users to look for people by location or the last time they logged on. It also enables group settings so people can organize activities such as hiking or assembling a basketball team, as well as providing information from health authorities on locations for HIV testing and treatment.

Andrea Pastorelli, a policy specialist at the United Nations Development Programme, said the Chinese CDC had recognized the app's usefulness in reaching people they were unable to.

"They are having a real issue reaching out to the most marginalized people and in China that's where the epidemic is," he said.

"The fact that they have been able to attract this much money shows that there is interest in the so-called pink market," Pastorelli added. "Private companies are realizing that gay people exist and gay people represent a huge market."

An investment manager at the Beijing office of DCM Ventures who asked not to be named because she was not authorized to speak to the media confirmed that the company had invested $30 million in Blue City, saying its future outlook was promising.

"Five percent of the total population are LGBT people," she said. "Social attitudes toward gay people will become more and more tolerant in the future."

For Ma, 37, who goes by the online pseudonym Geng Le, the investment signals a shift in attitudes already among Chinese toward homosexuals.

Five years ago, his website Danlan.org would be regularly shut down. Today, that doesn't happen anymore, and it carries discussions on whether to legalize same-sex marriage, for example.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Razgovory on December 01, 2014, 08:47:00 PM
Needs more anti-rioters.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on December 01, 2014, 08:52:26 PM
Seedy, I like that outfit better than the last one.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on December 13, 2014, 12:22:18 PM
http://www.voanews.com/content/egyptian-reporter-aids-in-police-crackdown-on-gays/2556485.html

QuoteEgyptian Reporter Aids in Police Crackdown on Gays

For a while after the Arab Spring, it looked like gay Egyptians were finally feeling safe enough to step out of the closet.

But now, they're being forced back underground as a result of an escalating police crackdown – one that activists say is being encouraged by pro-government media.

Cairo police stormed a  bath house this week after receiving a tip from an investigative journalist. They arrested at least two dozen men for "debauchery."

Journalist Mona Iraqi and her film crew accompanied police on the raid as part of an upcoming television exposé on "perversion" and the "spread of HIV/AIDS."

On her Facebook page, she promised that her show, El Mestakhabi ["The Hidden"], would reveal Cairo's "biggest gay orgy den" and include recorded "confessions" about the "group sex trade."

She also posted still photographs of the men being loaded into police vans, wearing only bath towels and handcuffs.  She later removed the photographs, but not before they managed to circulate across social media.

"Allah," she also posted, "success is sweet."  That post has also been removed.

It didn't take long for the news of the police operation to get out.

"We heard about it Sunday night around midnight," said gay rights activist Scott Long, who lives in Cairo and blogged about the incident the following morning.

"What was most striking to me was that she [Iraqi] was absolutely unashamed about her collusion with security forces in brutalizing these men. For her, it was a point of pride."

'Like being an outlaw'

These were just the latest arrests in what activists say is a heightening crackdown on lesbian, gay and transgender people that began a year ago.

In September, police arrested eight men who had appeared in a gay wedding video posted on YouTube (below).  They were sentenced to three years in prison each.  Last April, four men were sentenced to eight years in prison for hosting "deviant" sex parties.

In recent years, activists say, social and religious stigma against homosexuality appeared to be lifting, and this encouraged then-20-year-old Ramy Youseff to come out of the closet on Twitter.

But, things began turning backward after the army led by general Abdel Fattah el-Sissi ousted Egypt's first freely elected civilian president Mohamed Morsi of the now-outlawed Muslim Brotherhood last year.

"Today, it's dangerous being gay in Egypt," said Youseff, who is today a prominent LGBT activist.  "It's like being an outlaw."

Since Sissi came to power, activists say as many as 148 homosexuals have been arrested.  Many are subjected to humiliating "medical tests" to prove their sexual orientation.

Same-sex relations aren't against the law in Egypt, but police have routinely invoked anti-prostitution laws to target the gay community.

Courts have also charged gay Egyptians with "scorning religion" and "sexual practices contrary to Islam."

"Debauchery" carries a sentence of from one to three years in prison.

"They sometimes tack on additional charges," Youseff said. "They may add 'sex worker' to the charges.  Or if [the person being arrested] owns a flat or is renting an apartment, they might also add 'running a house of prostitution' to the charges.  And if he is arrested in the street, they might charge him with trying to get other people on the street to commit 'debauchery' as well."

All this means that the final prison sentence could really add up.

Boost to police image

"One of the things I think is happening is after the military coup, the el-Sissi regime felt it needed to show its moral credentials because it had overthrown an Islamist government," said Long.

Targeting the gay community is an easy way for the government to do so, he said.

"Moreover, it's a very easy way for the government to reestablish the credibility of the police, because the police were widely hated after the revolution for their complicity in human rights abuses," Long said.

He also blames media for feeding anti-gay hysteria. In a recent post on his "A Paper Bird" blog, Long cites a sensational web story that included a "map of the most popular places for perverts to go in Egypt."

"Media in Egypt these days is totally under the control of the Junta," said journalist and political activist Wael Abbas in an emailed statement.  "It welcomes stories like these to enhance its image as a keeper of morality in the society."

In addition, says Abbas, stories like these help the Sissi government divert attention from the economic challenges facing Egypt's citizens.

Graeme Reid, director of Human Rights Watch's LGBT Rights Program, recently blogged that police vice squads alert the media ahead of "dramatic raids."

But critics say in the case of the bath house raid, it was the show host who alerted police.

In her own defense

Iraqi believes that she is being judged unfairly, especially considering that critics haven't seen the entire story.

"The second part is the most important part," she said. "That shows all the evidence that this [bath house] is a place for the public sex trade."

She says the first segment of Iraqi's report aired this week.  The second and third parts will air December 17 and December 24, respectively.

"For sure, I will prove that I didn't hurt anyone," she said.

She said she is certain that after the public has seen the final episode, they will understand that she is "on the right side."

"I am confident one thousand percent that they [critics] will apologize to me," she said.

The cast and crew of the El Mestakhabi issued a statement earlier this week defending their work on the series, saying they have "worked towards achieving the highest degree of accuracy and professionalism in observing international professional, humane and scientific rules."

Iraqi said they are currently working on translating and/or dubbing the episodes into English for the benefit of international audiences.

The U.S. has not commented on the bath house arrests, but has in the past called on countries to respect the rights of all people, including gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender individuals, to "lead productive and dignified lives, free from fear, discrimination and violence."

Following the arrests, a State Department spokesperson told Think Progress it will continue to stress the importance of those rights to the Egyptian government.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 13, 2014, 12:46:52 PM
Quote"What was most striking to me was that she [Iraqi] was absolutely unashamed about her collusion with security forces in brutalizing these men. For her, it was a point of pride."

Yeah, never mind that bureaucrats ordered the raids and cops participated in them, the salient fact is that they got a journalist to go along with it.  :lol:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on December 13, 2014, 05:58:50 PM
But she had reporter AIDS.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on December 16, 2014, 06:06:47 AM
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/violence-against-lgbts-getting-worse-in-russia-study-says/513341.html

QuoteViolence Against LGBTs Getting Worse in Russia, Study Says

Russia's controversial law against gay propaganda has become a "license to harm" for Russian homophobes, who have expanded to target closeted gays, a new study says.

"License to Harm" is the title of a new report on gay rights in Russia, which was presented by Human Rights Watch in Moscow on Monday.

The study examined 78 cases of attacks on gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people across 16 cities in Russia since 2012. The list includes verbal harassment and rights violations such as firings over sexual orientation, but physical violence dominated.

The abuse detailed in the report went beyond beatings: Documented cases include a gay person who was forced to sodomize himself with a bottle by homophobic attackers, and a gay woman who was stripped naked and abandoned in a forest — after her big toenails were torn out with pliers.

Most victims said anti-gay violence had intensified since the law against "gay propaganda" was passed in 2013.

Formally, the law is limited to minors, with anyone found guilty of informing them that LGBT relations are "of equal social worth with traditional relations" facing fines.

Yet, homophobes across the nation have taken it as carte blanche to conduct a hate campaign, Human Rights Watch representatives said at the study's presentation in Moscow.

"Pressure increased on LGBT [people] and defenders of their rights," said the group's Russia researcher, Tanya Cooper. "It's a campaign of harassment and intimidation."

There are no comprehensive statistics for the number of LGBT people in Russia, a country of 146 million, or for attacks on them nationwide.

A study by anti-xenophobia watchdog Sova listed 27 attacks over last year, but that figure was based solely on media reports.

A polling of experts and LGBT representatives showed that the attacks had changed in nature in the 18 months since the law's passing, the study said.

Before the law, homophobes focused on open activists staging or attending LGBT festivals or gay pride rallies, said Ksenia Kirichenko of Vykhod ("Coming Out"), a group providing legal aid to LGBT people.

But now they also target people who try to keep their sexual identity hidden, Kirichenko told The Moscow Times at the study's presentation.

A case in point was the firing of a closeted lesbian teacher in a school for disabled children in St. Petersburg earlier this month. The woman was forcibly outed by an anti-gay activist and promptly fired for "moral misconduct," the first such case in Russia.

The attackers include both Christian conservatives and poor working-class teenagers who are more interested in violence than ideology, Kirichenko said.

The latter are prominent in the Occupy Pedophilia movement, a vigilante group whose activists have documented on video hundreds of instances of brutal abuse against alleged gays and child abusers throughout Russia.

Authorities, meanwhile, have gone out of their way to downplay any spike in violence against LGBT people.

Prosecutors and security services refuse to track statistics for homophobic attacks or register them as hate crimes, Cooper said.

The bill's backers, all the way up to President Vladimir Putin, have repeatedly denied that it is discriminatory, saying it is aimed only at "protecting Russian children."

The Kremlin has embraced ultraconservative rhetoric since 2012 in a bid to rally supporters in the face of mounting political dissent and, more recently, an economic crisis.

The Prosecutor General's Office and the Investigative Committee did not return separate requests for comment Monday.

But Russia's gay basher par excellence, St. Petersburg lawmaker Vitaly Milonov, was unfazed.

"If Human Rights Watch is against the law, that means we must keep it," Milonov told The Moscow Times.

The conservative lawmaker, who pioneered the "anti-gay law," accused the New York-headquartered watchdog of being a "political call girl."

Milonov — who just last weekend crashed a hedonist party in a St. Petersburg gay club (disrupting, but failing to cancel it) — also denied any increase in homophobic attacks.

"Oh please," he said by telephone. "I can't shut down a single fa--ot club, and they're everywhere on TV."

"I wish I were 'oppressed' like they are,
" Milonov said.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on December 16, 2014, 06:35:48 AM
Russia is possibly the shittiest, most evil "European" country at the moment.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 16, 2014, 04:18:01 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 16, 2014, 06:35:48 AM
Russia is possibly the shittiest, most evil "European" country at the moment.

Other than the third reich, I'm hard-pressed to think of a moment when that wasn't the case.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on December 16, 2014, 04:21:46 PM
Fair enough.

As a Pole; as a gay person; as a member of Western civilisation, I can't wait for Russia to crash and burn.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on December 17, 2014, 12:25:48 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on December 16, 2014, 04:18:01 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 16, 2014, 06:35:48 AM
Russia is possibly the shittiest, most evil "European" country at the moment.

Other than the third reich, I'm hard-pressed to think of a moment when that wasn't the case.

Well there was Serbia during the 90s.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on December 18, 2014, 07:49:20 AM
QuoteStudy: Gay men earn less than straight men, but lesbians are paid more

Sexual orientation seems to affect earning prospects and job satisfaction, a study shows.

Research by Nick Drydakis at Anglia Ruskin University found gay men on average earn 9% less compared to heterosexual men.

However, lesbians on average earn 12% more compared to heterosexual women.

Even in countries in the EU, Australia, Canada and the US, which have the strongest anti-discrimination laws, gay and lesbian people experienced more obstacles in getting a job, earning bias and harassment than their counterparts.

Mr Drydakis said: "Despite anti-discrimination laws in some countries, gay and lesbian employees encounter serious job-market barriers.

"They report more harassment and less job satisfaction than heterosexual employees, and gay men earn less than comparably skilled and experienced heterosexual men.

"Good employer–employee relations are shown to increase job satisfaction for gay and lesbian employees.

"Government can help through campaigns promoting respect and equality of treatment in the workplace and by publishing annual data on progress toward equality objectives.

"Firms should evaluate recruitment and promotion policies to ensure equality of opportunity and should address incidents of harassment."

The report highlights that fewer than 20% of countries have adopted sexual orientation anti-discrimination laws in employment, and 2.7 billion people live in countries where being gay or lesbian is a crime.

It found that people who are open about their sexual orientation within the workplace are more likely to report higher job satisfaction than those who are not.

In the UK, lesbians earned 8% more than heterosexual women, with the gap increasing to 11% in Germany and 20% in the US.

My personal take on this:

1. Discrimination plays a role, but...

2. Gay men are more likely to pick jobs that are better on work-life balance / are less likely to put in extra hours even if they pay less than straight men, because more rarely have an entire family to maintain.

3. Gay women are paid more than straight women because they are less likely to have kids (which is a significant reason why women are paid less on average).

Incidentally:

Quote"Good employer–employee relations are shown to increase job satisfaction for gay and lesbian employees.

Shocking! Who would have thought?! :rolleyes:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on December 18, 2014, 05:45:15 PM
Man I am glad we have studies around to tell us these things.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on December 19, 2014, 01:17:01 AM
Quote from: Valmy on December 18, 2014, 05:45:15 PM
Man I am glad we have studies around to tell us these things.

Well, there needs to be something for sociologists and gender studies' graduates to do - there just aren't enough job openings at McDonald's. :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on December 20, 2014, 01:47:30 AM
QuoteUS: Anti-gay pastor arrested for sexually harassing a man

Pastor Gaylard Williams of anti-gay Praise Cathedral Church of God in Indiana has been arrested for sexually harassing a man at a lake.

The victim says Williams approached him while he sat in his car, squeezed his genitals and asked him for oral sex. He said he only managed to make Williams leave by pretending to reach for a gun.

When police caught up with Williams they found gay pornography in his car. Williams claimed he was holding the pornography for a friend, and was at the lake to look for a friend who fished there.

Church of God beliefs state that homosexuality is a sin, marriage is between a man and a woman, and "We will engage in those activities which glorify God in our body and which avoid the fulfillment of the lust of the flesh."

Caleb Funke, youth director of another local church said of his neighbour: "I guess when you hear of a pastor getting caught of that, you get a little more shocked than I guess somebody else. But we're all sinners."

You couldn't make that shit up.  :D
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Razgovory on December 20, 2014, 03:24:15 AM
Quote from: Martinus on December 20, 2014, 01:47:30 AM
QuoteUS: Anti-gay pastor arrested for sexually harassing a man

Pastor Gaylard Williams of anti-gay Praise Cathedral Church of God in Indiana has been arrested for sexually harassing a man at a lake.

The victim says Williams approached him while he sat in his car, squeezed his genitals and asked him for oral sex. He said he only managed to make Williams leave by pretending to reach for a gun.

When police caught up with Williams they found gay pornography in his car. Williams claimed he was holding the pornography for a friend, and was at the lake to look for a friend who fished there.

Church of God beliefs state that homosexuality is a sin, marriage is between a man and a woman, and "We will engage in those activities which glorify God in our body and which avoid the fulfillment of the lust of the flesh."

Caleb Funke, youth director of another local church said of his neighbour: "I guess when you hear of a pastor getting caught of that, you get a little more shocked than I guess somebody else. But we're all sinners."

You couldn't make that shit up.  :D

Well, obviously someone did.  I don't think that victim's story and that of the pastor can both be true.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on December 20, 2014, 03:44:44 AM
Ok, grumbler.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on January 12, 2015, 12:53:01 PM
Ok, this seems like a hilariously bad idea:

QuoteChannel 4: Six percent of employees must be LGBT

Channel 4 has set tough new diversity targets, which require six percent of employees to be lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender by the year 2020.

The broadcaster announced its new diversity charter today – which drastically increases previous targets for representation – and introduced clauses which will strip executives of their bonus if they fail to meet targets.

The broadcaster wants 6% of staff to identify as LGBT by the year 2020 – up from 2.4% – with targets for 6% staff with disabilities and 20% black, Asian or minority ethnic (BAME) staff.


This figure for LGBT representation is far higher than the 2.4% of Channel 4 staff that currently identify as LGBT.

The broadcaster said the percentages reflect the proportion in the general population – however, it is unclear where the figure of 6% for LGBT came from, with the broadcaster saying it made its "own assessment" to get to the number.

Channel 4 said: "Our ambition is for employee diversity to reach the national average.

"In some categories of diversity there are differing estimates, sometimes significant, of the national average (particularly around disability and LGBT); in these areas we have made our own assessment of the national average to aim for, allowing for how this might develop over time."

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwwwpinknewscouk.c.presscdn.com%2Fimages%2F2014%2F02%2FC4.png&hash=e82cecdac11785b04644c2d14fbcb54652d58839)

The target for BAME diversity is also lower among "C4 leaders" – presumably executive staff – with a 15% target by 2020, compared to 20% for general staff.

As part of the strategy, Channel 4 exec David Abraham has doubled the diversity budget to £5 million.

The broadcaster said: "Diversity is a big, complex area.

"The aim of diversity policy in broadcasting is simple: to include and nurture talent, and to reflect contemporary Britain on and offscreen.

"But at Channel 4 we need to do more than reflect Britain. Our remit tasks us to 'challenge established views and promote alternative views and new perspectives' unlike other broadcasters.

"Many aspects of diversity are important to us including diversity of thought. But beyond that, there are many different aspects of diversity that shift over time."

It continues "Our 360° Diversity Charter means we will show leadership in diversity at every level. Leadership is about people. It's about all the people who contribute to our content, not just those on-screen.

"Our Charter involves commissioners, writers, directors, HR managers, interns, casting agents, viewers, business managers, indie managers, on-screen talent, TV executives, lawyers, headhunters, careers advisors,marketing executives, PAs, data-rights managers, production assistants... when we say 360°, we mean 360°.

"We understand that leadership and learning go hand in hand. We don't have all the answers, but we'll find solutions by educating people to be diversity-savvy; to be diversity leaders."
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on January 12, 2015, 12:59:23 PM
A Vienna café has been criticized for kicking out a lesbian couple. The ladies kissed ("more than just a 'hello' kiss according to the proprietor) and were told off by the waiter who proceeded to serve them with disdain (which must be bad, because disdainful waiters are a staple of Viennese café house culture :P ).

So the couple complained to the owner. She then kicked the couple out.

Now, Austrian law is funny. The proprietor is in her right to refuse service (to anyone). However, if the waiter was gay and guests would refuse to be served by this waiter, or if the owner treated him unfairly, he could sue, because it would be discrimination in the workplace.

Anyways, one café off the list of places I like to go to.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on January 12, 2015, 01:01:08 PM
I would serve anyone with disdain who was engaging in excessive PDA. :x
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on January 12, 2015, 01:41:51 PM
Quote from: Martinus on December 18, 2014, 07:49:20 AM
QuoteStudy: Gay men earn less than straight men, but lesbians are paid more

Sexual orientation seems to affect earning prospects and job satisfaction, a study shows.

Research by Nick Drydakis at Anglia Ruskin University found gay men on average earn 9% less compared to heterosexual men.

However, lesbians on average earn 12% more compared to heterosexual women.

Even in countries in the EU, Australia, Canada and the US, which have the strongest anti-discrimination laws, gay and lesbian people experienced more obstacles in getting a job, earning bias and harassment than their counterparts.

Mr Drydakis said: "Despite anti-discrimination laws in some countries, gay and lesbian employees encounter serious job-market barriers.

"They report more harassment and less job satisfaction than heterosexual employees, and gay men earn less than comparably skilled and experienced heterosexual men.

"Good employer–employee relations are shown to increase job satisfaction for gay and lesbian employees.

"Government can help through campaigns promoting respect and equality of treatment in the workplace and by publishing annual data on progress toward equality objectives.

"Firms should evaluate recruitment and promotion policies to ensure equality of opportunity and should address incidents of harassment."

The report highlights that fewer than 20% of countries have adopted sexual orientation anti-discrimination laws in employment, and 2.7 billion people live in countries where being gay or lesbian is a crime.

It found that people who are open about their sexual orientation within the workplace are more likely to report higher job satisfaction than those who are not.

In the UK, lesbians earned 8% more than heterosexual women, with the gap increasing to 11% in Germany and 20% in the US.

My personal take on this:

1. Discrimination plays a role, but...

2. Gay men are more likely to pick jobs that are better on work-life balance / are less likely to put in extra hours even if they pay less than straight men, because more rarely have an entire family to maintain.

3. Gay women are paid more than straight women because they are less likely to have kids (which is a significant reason why women are paid less on average).


Heh, it could be that gay men get discriminated against because they are seen as "single", and employers like steady "family" men. The employer may not know or care that they are gay, just that they are not "married" (and thus presumably more likely to be flighty). Assuming this is true, the question then is whether gay marriage will change this at all, when it becomes available and popular.

I agree that with women, the discrimination works the other way - it is women with children who are discriminated against, indirectly favouring lesbians.   
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on January 12, 2015, 01:43:03 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 12, 2015, 01:01:08 PM
I would serve anyone with disdain who was engaging in excessive PDA. :x

:yes:

Get a room!
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on January 12, 2015, 01:47:18 PM
I read recently an article about a gay couple being kicked out of an Uber cab by a Muslim driver for excessive PDA. Now that's a topic that could cause chaos on Languish. :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on January 12, 2015, 01:56:21 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 12, 2015, 01:47:18 PM
I read recently an article about a gay couple being kicked out of an Uber cab by a Muslim driver for excessive PDA. Now that's a topic that could cause chaos on Languish. :P

I read that and one of those guys had noted on his twitter bio that he is an attention whore. :D
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: 11B4V on January 12, 2015, 01:58:29 PM
What's PDA in the gay community? Some secret code.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on January 12, 2015, 01:59:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 12, 2015, 01:56:21 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 12, 2015, 01:47:18 PM
I read recently an article about a gay couple being kicked out of an Uber cab by a Muslim driver for excessive PDA. Now that's a topic that could cause chaos on Languish. :P

I read that and one of those guys had noted on his twitter bio that he is an attention whore. :D

Have you ever met a gay guy who wasn't? :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on January 12, 2015, 01:59:49 PM
PDA = Public displays of affection
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on January 12, 2015, 02:00:09 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 12, 2015, 01:41:51 PM
Heh, it could be that gay men get discriminated against because they are seen as "single", and employers like steady "family" men. The employer may not know or care that they are gay, just that they are not "married" (and thus presumably more likely to be flighty). Assuming this is true, the question then is whether gay marriage will change this at all, when it becomes available and popular.

On the whole, are married people more likely to stay around? I know common sense would say that married people have more commitments (like children) so they are less likely to leave a job that is working out - at least that is until they come across something better. Presumably that fairly similar to single people these days. How many people really just quit jobs without having something else ready?

Not that I'm at all disagreeing with your theory - just pondering if the "non-flightiness" of a married employee is more than just common wisdom.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on January 12, 2015, 02:00:38 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 12, 2015, 01:59:49 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 12, 2015, 01:56:21 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 12, 2015, 01:47:18 PM
I read recently an article about a gay couple being kicked out of an Uber cab by a Muslim driver for excessive PDA. Now that's a topic that could cause chaos on Languish. :P

I read that and one of those guys had noted on his twitter bio that he is an attention whore. :D

Have you ever met a gay guy who wasn't? :P

Yes? :huh:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on January 12, 2015, 02:00:49 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 12, 2015, 01:58:29 PM
What's PDA in the gay community? Some secret code.

Are you asking what the acronym means or what constitutes a PDA in the gay community? PDA stands for Public Displays of Affection and I thought it was used universally.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on January 12, 2015, 02:01:04 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 12, 2015, 01:58:29 PM
What's PDA in the gay community? Some secret code.

What Syt said / not a secret gay term. :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: 11B4V on January 12, 2015, 02:01:48 PM
When are those people going to learn/figure out, the train is rolling and there's no stopping it.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on January 12, 2015, 02:02:59 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 12, 2015, 02:01:48 PM
When are those people going to learn/figure out, the train is rolling and there's no stopping it.

I think I will always be annoyed by PDA. -_-
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: 11B4V on January 12, 2015, 02:03:23 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 12, 2015, 02:01:04 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 12, 2015, 01:58:29 PM
What's PDA in the gay community? Some secret code.

What Syt said / not a secret gay term. :P

Learned something new. To me...personal digital assistant (PDA)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on January 12, 2015, 02:04:32 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 12, 2015, 02:03:23 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 12, 2015, 02:01:04 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 12, 2015, 01:58:29 PM
What's PDA in the gay community? Some secret code.

What Syt said / not a secret gay term. :P

Learned something new. To me...personal digital assistant (PDA)

Keep up, grandpa. Who the hell has a PDA these days? :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on January 12, 2015, 02:05:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 12, 2015, 02:00:09 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 12, 2015, 01:41:51 PM
Heh, it could be that gay men get discriminated against because they are seen as "single", and employers like steady "family" men. The employer may not know or care that they are gay, just that they are not "married" (and thus presumably more likely to be flighty). Assuming this is true, the question then is whether gay marriage will change this at all, when it becomes available and popular.

On the whole, are married people more likely to stay around? I know common sense would say that married people have more commitments (like children) so they are less likely to leave a job that is working out - at least that is until they come across something better. Presumably that fairly similar to single people these days. How many people really just quit jobs without having something else ready?

Not that I'm at all disagreeing with your theory - just pondering if the "non-flightiness" of a married employee is more than just common wisdom.

I dunno whether there is any actual truth in it.

On possible concern is that some person is going to eventually hook up with someone who lives somewhere else, then move to follow them.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: 11B4V on January 12, 2015, 02:06:34 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 12, 2015, 02:02:59 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on January 12, 2015, 02:01:48 PM
When are those people going to learn/figure out, the train is rolling and there's no stopping it.

I think I will always be annoyed by PDA. -_-
Let me clarify. Gay rights and freedoms, while having a long way to go, are adavancing and there's no stopping it. The Ultra conservative and religious fundies will figure that out one day.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on January 12, 2015, 02:09:58 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 12, 2015, 02:05:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 12, 2015, 02:00:09 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 12, 2015, 01:41:51 PM
Heh, it could be that gay men get discriminated against because they are seen as "single", and employers like steady "family" men. The employer may not know or care that they are gay, just that they are not "married" (and thus presumably more likely to be flighty). Assuming this is true, the question then is whether gay marriage will change this at all, when it becomes available and popular.

On the whole, are married people more likely to stay around? I know common sense would say that married people have more commitments (like children) so they are less likely to leave a job that is working out - at least that is until they come across something better. Presumably that fairly similar to single people these days. How many people really just quit jobs without having something else ready?

Not that I'm at all disagreeing with your theory - just pondering if the "non-flightiness" of a married employee is more than just common wisdom.

I dunno whether there is any actual truth in it.

On possible concern is that some person is going to eventually hook up with someone who lives somewhere else, then move to follow them.

Well, I think that a lot of discrimination is based on homophilia (i.e. liking things that are similar to oneself) and elaborate justifications are used to rationalise that. It seems like a married family boss would invent all these elaborate reasons why another married family man is an ideal employee.

By comparison, one of the partners in my department is a British "confirmed bachelor" (he is not gay as far as I can tell) and he thinks that people with children are the worst employees because they constantly need to take time off to care for their children etc. :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on January 12, 2015, 02:14:34 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 12, 2015, 02:09:58 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 12, 2015, 02:05:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 12, 2015, 02:00:09 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 12, 2015, 01:41:51 PM
Heh, it could be that gay men get discriminated against because they are seen as "single", and employers like steady "family" men. The employer may not know or care that they are gay, just that they are not "married" (and thus presumably more likely to be flighty). Assuming this is true, the question then is whether gay marriage will change this at all, when it becomes available and popular.

On the whole, are married people more likely to stay around? I know common sense would say that married people have more commitments (like children) so they are less likely to leave a job that is working out - at least that is until they come across something better. Presumably that fairly similar to single people these days. How many people really just quit jobs without having something else ready?

Not that I'm at all disagreeing with your theory - just pondering if the "non-flightiness" of a married employee is more than just common wisdom.

I dunno whether there is any actual truth in it.

On possible concern is that some person is going to eventually hook up with someone who lives somewhere else, then move to follow them.

Well, I think that a lot of discrimination is based on homophilia (i.e. liking things that are similar to oneself) and elaborate justifications are used to rationalise that. It seems like a married family boss would invent all these elaborate reasons why another married family man is an ideal employee.

By comparison, one of the partners in my department is a British "confirmed bachelor" (he is not gay as far as I can tell) and he thinks that people with children are the worst employees because they constantly need to take time off to care for their children etc. :P

Well, sure.

But the 'old-timey' stereotype is that the 'taking off time for kids' thing is something women are supposed to do, and not men.  ;)

In either event, I would agree that in the modern professional business world at least, people's attitudes towards having kids is a far more significant bone of contention than whether they are gay or straight (and some gays I know do, in fact, have kids - some have adopted and others came out later in life after having them). 
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on January 12, 2015, 02:24:04 PM
Well, he was mad at one senior associate who took half a day off on Saturday in the middle of a transaction to attend his baby's christening. :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on January 12, 2015, 02:36:16 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 12, 2015, 02:05:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 12, 2015, 02:00:09 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 12, 2015, 01:41:51 PM
Heh, it could be that gay men get discriminated against because they are seen as "single", and employers like steady "family" men. The employer may not know or care that they are gay, just that they are not "married" (and thus presumably more likely to be flighty). Assuming this is true, the question then is whether gay marriage will change this at all, when it becomes available and popular.

On the whole, are married people more likely to stay around? I know common sense would say that married people have more commitments (like children) so they are less likely to leave a job that is working out - at least that is until they come across something better. Presumably that fairly similar to single people these days. How many people really just quit jobs without having something else ready?

Not that I'm at all disagreeing with your theory - just pondering if the "non-flightiness" of a married employee is more than just common wisdom.

I dunno whether there is any actual truth in it.

On possible concern is that some person is going to eventually hook up with someone who lives somewhere else, then move to follow them.

Of course, as definitely happens, one partner in marriage has them move elsewhere because they got a cool job offer.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on January 12, 2015, 02:42:27 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 12, 2015, 02:24:04 PM
Well, he was mad at one senior associate who took half a day off on Saturday in the middle of a transaction to attend his baby's christening. :P

Oh, he's one of *those* types.  :lol:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on January 12, 2015, 02:50:46 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 12, 2015, 02:36:16 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 12, 2015, 02:05:24 PM
Quote from: garbon on January 12, 2015, 02:00:09 PM
Quote from: Malthus on January 12, 2015, 01:41:51 PM
Heh, it could be that gay men get discriminated against because they are seen as "single", and employers like steady "family" men. The employer may not know or care that they are gay, just that they are not "married" (and thus presumably more likely to be flighty). Assuming this is true, the question then is whether gay marriage will change this at all, when it becomes available and popular.

On the whole, are married people more likely to stay around? I know common sense would say that married people have more commitments (like children) so they are less likely to leave a job that is working out - at least that is until they come across something better. Presumably that fairly similar to single people these days. How many people really just quit jobs without having something else ready?

Not that I'm at all disagreeing with your theory - just pondering if the "non-flightiness" of a married employee is more than just common wisdom.

I dunno whether there is any actual truth in it.

On possible concern is that some person is going to eventually hook up with someone who lives somewhere else, then move to follow them.

Of course, as definitely happens, one partner in marriage has them move elsewhere because they got a cool job offer.

Certainly, that too.

I have no idea if the prejudice in favour of marrieds has any validity whatsoever, just that it is a "thing".  ;)

The whole notion is that married people are more settled, more likely to own a house or other serious property, less likely to be partying all night, less likely to suddenly decide to 'find themselves' by hitch-hiking to Katmandu, less likely to chase strange tail into a city across the continent, more likely to have developed good socialization habits, more 'adult', etc.

It could easily all be bullshit prejudice, but certainly some people believe in it.

What will be interesting to see is if this prejudice transfers to married gays. I suspect it will. From what I've seen, married gays can outdo Ward and June Cleaver in the settled, boring sub/urbanite stakes.  :lol:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on January 12, 2015, 03:02:33 PM
All very fair. :D
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Brazen on January 12, 2015, 05:49:56 PM
As I evidently fail at reading back in megathreads, have we covered the British Military's new "do ask, do tell" policy?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30773024 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30773024)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on January 13, 2015, 02:19:06 AM
Quote from: Brazen on January 12, 2015, 05:49:56 PM
As I evidently fail at reading back in megathreads, have we covered the British Military's new "do ask, do tell" policy?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30773024 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30773024)

Wouldn't that be illegal in most job applications?

Also:

Quote"Although this is not mandatory, collecting this data will give us a better understanding of the composition of our armed forces and help ensure our policies and practices fully support our personnel."

Recruits are also invited to say how open they feel they can be regarding their sexual orientation.

So, you can say you prefer not to disclose your sexual orientation but that you don't feel open about it? :D
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on January 13, 2015, 02:26:52 AM
Quote from: Martinus on January 13, 2015, 02:19:06 AM
Wouldn't that be illegal in most job applications?
No. It's a standard form you fill in with all sorts of diversity questions:
http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4071
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on January 13, 2015, 03:46:06 AM
Well, I guess it's time for more gay generals then. :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on January 14, 2015, 09:05:03 AM
So, there is a mini-scandal concerning the openly gay MP who was elected the mayor of Slupsk, because some right wing tabloid got to the online profile of his partner (who himself is a human rights lawyer and is quite cute actually) on gayromeo.com (the most popular European gay dating site) where it says that he is in an "open relationship" and among other things, is into "soft BDSM".

There are three types of reactions:

Rightwingers: OMG OMG OMG SEE THIS IS HOW DEPRAVED THESE GAYS ARE!!!!  :yeah:

Mainstream/Liberal: THIS IS AN UNPRECEDENTED VIOLATION OF PRIVACY AND AN ATTEMPT TO DISCREDIT A SUCCESFUL LEFTWING POLITICIAN!!!  :grr:

Gays: ERR, WOULD IT BE AWKWARD IF WE TOLD YOU THAT PRETTY MUCH ALL OF US HAVE A PROFILE ON GAYROMEO WHERE WE SAY WE ARE IN AN OPEN RELATIONSHIP AND INTO SOFT BDSM? JUST ASKING? :unsure:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on January 14, 2015, 09:11:35 AM
Have lower case letters not made it to Poland yet? It's like reading C64 text.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on January 14, 2015, 09:12:05 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 14, 2015, 09:11:35 AM
Have lower case letters not made it to Poland yet? It's like reading C64 text.

Putin stole our CapsLock. :(
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on January 14, 2015, 09:16:44 AM
gayromeo is a dreadful site. Europe, do better. :angry:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 14, 2015, 09:17:46 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 14, 2015, 09:11:35 AM
Have lower case letters not made it to Poland yet? It's like reading C64 text.

They'll be introduced in the next patch, along with vowels.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on January 14, 2015, 09:24:30 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on January 14, 2015, 09:17:46 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 14, 2015, 09:11:35 AM
Have lower case letters not made it to Poland yet? It's like reading C64 text.

They'll be introduced in the next patch, along with vowels.

It's a WAD!!!
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on January 14, 2015, 09:25:21 AM
Quote from: garbon on January 14, 2015, 09:16:44 AM
gayromeo is a dreadful site. Europe, do better. :angry:

I don't know. I have hooked up through it with more people than all other sources of casual sex combined.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on January 14, 2015, 11:21:17 AM
http://www.thelocal.at/20150114/austria-lifts-ban-on-same-sex-adoption

QuoteAustria declares ban on gay adoption illegal

Austria's highest court has lifted a ban on same sex couples adopting children, the court's president Gerhart Holzinger announced on Wednesday.

Holzinger said that the court found that there was "no justification for difference in treatment because of sexual orientation".

Since 2013 gay couples in Austria have been entitled to step-child adoption - meaning that one partner can adopt the biological child of the other.

The law was changed after a lesbian couple who wanted to jointly raise one partner's child won their case at the European Court for Human Rights, which ruled that Austria's adoption laws discriminated against gay people.

Helmut Graupner, from the Lambda legal committee which offers free legal counselling in all areas of the law related to lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender life, said he was "over the moon" about the lifting of the ban.

The lawyers for the women on whose case the decision was based called the decision "a complete success", and called on Austria's government to recognise same-sex marriage.

Same-sex couples may form a "registered partnership" in Austria, but do not have access to the same government marital benefits as heterosexual couples do.

Some EU countries such as Britain, the Netherlands and France allow same-sex marriage with full adoption rights. But in others such as Portugal, Germany and Hungary varying restrictions remain.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on January 17, 2015, 04:04:37 AM
Gay adoption....
See, that sounds like it's the gays being adopted.
Adopt-a-gay today!
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on January 17, 2015, 04:11:39 AM
Quote from: Tyr on January 17, 2015, 04:04:37 AM
Gay adoption....
See, that sounds like it's the gays being adopted.
Adopt-a-gay today!

As Languish shows, you feed them once...
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Capetan Mihali on January 17, 2015, 07:00:54 AM
But gayromeo teaches them to fish for a lifetime.  :huh:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on January 17, 2015, 03:25:53 PM
Quote from: Capetan Mihali on January 17, 2015, 07:00:54 AM
But gayromeo teaches them to fish for a lifetime.  :huh:

We are the fishers of men.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on January 20, 2015, 04:36:58 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 12, 2015, 12:59:23 PM
A Vienna café has been criticized for kicking out a lesbian couple. The ladies kissed ("more than just a 'hello' kiss according to the proprietor) and were told off by the waiter who proceeded to serve them with disdain (which must be bad, because disdainful waiters are a staple of Viennese café house culture :P ).

So the couple complained to the owner. She then kicked the couple out.

Now, Austrian law is funny. The proprietor is in her right to refuse service (to anyone). However, if the waiter was gay and guests would refuse to be served by this waiter, or if the owner treated him unfairly, he could sue, because it would be discrimination in the workplace.

Anyways, one café off the list of places I like to go to.

So, the tourist board got on the café's case (Vienna is marketing itself towards the gay community), and also there was a 1,000+ participant "kiss in" in front of the café last Friday. The café owner has since apologized that her remarks ("This would be behavior appropriate for a brothel, not a café!") were out of line, and that treating her customers like this was wrong.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on January 20, 2015, 09:14:08 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 20, 2015, 04:36:58 AM
Quote from: Syt on January 12, 2015, 12:59:23 PM
A Vienna café has been criticized for kicking out a lesbian couple. The ladies kissed ("more than just a 'hello' kiss according to the proprietor) and were told off by the waiter who proceeded to serve them with disdain (which must be bad, because disdainful waiters are a staple of Viennese café house culture :P ).

So the couple complained to the owner. She then kicked the couple out.

Now, Austrian law is funny. The proprietor is in her right to refuse service (to anyone). However, if the waiter was gay and guests would refuse to be served by this waiter, or if the owner treated him unfairly, he could sue, because it would be discrimination in the workplace.

Anyways, one café off the list of places I like to go to.

So, the tourist board got on the café's case (Vienna is marketing itself towards the gay community), and also there was a 1,000+ participant "kiss in" in front of the café last Friday. The café owner has since apologized that her remarks ("This would be behavior appropriate for a brothel, not a café!") were out of line, and that treating her customers like this was wrong.

One more victory against public decorum?  :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on January 23, 2015, 01:25:33 PM
"Like" comes in various shapes.
Whether its the same sex or different sex, don't divide love.

Posted because Japanese lesbians are cute and Japanese gay guys rather scary. Apparently.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on January 26, 2015, 08:49:55 AM
Beefy = scary? :unsure:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on January 26, 2015, 03:03:01 PM
Do we need a lawyer news thread? Because it seems British lawyers are recently making international headlines - whether gay, muslim or whatnot. :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on January 26, 2015, 06:41:48 PM
Quote from: Martinus on January 26, 2015, 03:03:01 PM
Do we need a lawyer news thread? Because it seems British lawyers are recently making international headlines - whether gay, muslim or whatnot. :P
Sure, go ahead and start one.  Fair warning: every other post will be "Lawyers fucking suck". :)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on January 27, 2015, 11:40:44 AM
Quote from: garbon on January 26, 2015, 08:49:55 AM
Beefy = scary? :unsure:

They can shove Josq into his locker or give him a swirly.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: viper37 on March 29, 2015, 11:12:46 PM
California to legalize gay shootings (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/03/ca-tries-to-block-kill-the-gays-proposal.html)

Now that I got everyone's attention... :P

Quote
California Tries to Block Proposal That Would Legalize Shooting Gay People

In 2016 Californians may be able to vote to legalize the killing of gay people by "bullets to the head" or "any other convenient method," if State Attorney General Kamala Harris's effort to block the ballot initiative is unsuccessful. Harris is tasked with providing an official title and summary for voter-proposed initiatives, but on Wednesday she asked the Sacramento County Superior Court to relieve her of that duty regarding the "Sodomite Suppression Act." "In this case, we are talking about a proposal that literally is calling for violence. It's calling for vigilantism," Harris told the Sacramento Bee. "I, frankly, do not want to be in the position of giving any legitimacy to those words."

Huntington Beach attorney Matthew McLaughlin was able to file the measure for a fee of just $200 last month. It's unclear if his proposal was sincere or just a particularly odious bit of trolling, but all that's come of it are calls to amend California's ballot initiative process and have McLaughlin disbarred.

Still, if the court doesn't intervene, McLaughlin will have 180 days to collect more than 365,000 signatures to put the measure on the ballot. While one would think it goes without saying, the L.A. Times notes that it's "considered an incredible long-shot to pass even if it ended up on a ballot." So rest assured that California probably isn't going to legalize killing gay people.


I applaud California for its initiatives in direct democracy, but I think it's a bit silly that you can just propose anything you want.  I can understand forbidding gay marriage, most gays would probably be against swearing fidelity until death to them part ;) , but when you're advocating murder, outside the legal process, of random people that fits your criteria of evilness, I think it's silly that the State Attorney has to resort to tribunals to fix this sillyness.  Clearly, some clearer rules would need to be established as to what constitute a legitimate proposal.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Jaron on March 29, 2015, 11:15:24 PM
Well, to be fair anyone can propose anything but he still needs the signatures before its something that'll be voted on. The best kind of Democracy is the kind where the iron will of the people stands firm against this type of lunacy and says in one loud and clear voice "NO, THANK YOU!"
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: DGuller on March 29, 2015, 11:24:28 PM
Does the ballot initiate define who the gay people are?  I imagine they won't be easily identifiable, especially not after that measure passes.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on March 29, 2015, 11:42:13 PM
Quote from: Jaron on March 29, 2015, 11:15:24 PM
Well, to be fair anyone can propose anything but he still needs the signatures before its something that'll be voted on.

And lots of people will sign without reading.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Jaron on March 29, 2015, 11:45:57 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on March 29, 2015, 11:42:13 PM
Quote from: Jaron on March 29, 2015, 11:15:24 PM
Well, to be fair anyone can propose anything but he still needs the signatures before its something that'll be voted on.

And lots of people will sign without reading.

HARDLY.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on March 31, 2015, 03:14:35 AM
Quote from: viper37 on March 29, 2015, 11:12:46 PM
I can understand forbidding gay marriage, most gays would probably be against swearing fidelity until death to them part ;)

While you put a winky eye on it, I'm not sure why gays would be anymore expected to hold up to their vows than heterosexuals. ;)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on March 31, 2015, 04:59:59 AM
I think direct democracy, especially the ability of the people to put things on a ballot, is an abomination and perversion of a democratic process.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on March 31, 2015, 05:01:32 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 31, 2015, 04:59:59 AM
I think direct democracy, especially the ability of the people to put things on a ballot, is an abomination and perversion of a democratic process.

Cool story, bro.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on March 31, 2015, 07:47:12 AM
He is not wrong...at least about California ballot initiatives leading to abominable results.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: crazy canuck on March 31, 2015, 12:20:02 PM
We are experiencing direct democracy in action here as well.  First we voted down a very sensible policy which combined federal and Provincial sales taxes into one combined tax at the till which would have reduced a lot of needless administrative costs for business, increased revenue for both governments and eliminated the possibility of paying tax on tax.  The reason we did that?  Because it was introduced by an unpopular government and the public needed to vent regardless of the facts.  Now we are about to vote down a proposal which would have provided much needed funding to improve our transit infrastructure.  The reason?  Everyone seems to agree the funding is necessary but it will mean a tax increase and the transit authority that has proposed the levy is unpopular.


IMO direct democracy initiatives where people can vote down spending initiatives that they perceive will not directly benefit or because they don't like something not directly related to proposal is a terrible way to go about creating tax policy.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on March 31, 2015, 03:01:13 PM
To me, democracy is a process of appointing / selecting the people's "employees" entrusted with the task of governance.

Just as I don't want my doctor to ask me which drug he should use to treat my disease, or my car mechanic to ask me what tool he should use to fix my car, I don't want my government to ask me what policy should be introduced - I am paying them to take the decision (and the responsibility) for me.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: crazy canuck on March 31, 2015, 03:35:01 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 31, 2015, 03:01:13 PM
To me, democracy is a process of appointing / selecting the people's "employees" entrusted with the task of governance.

Just as I don't want my doctor to ask me which drug he should use to treat my disease, or my car mechanic to ask me what tool he should use to fix my car, I don't want my government to ask me what policy should be introduced - I am paying them to take the decision (and the responsibility) for me.

The complaint I have is that policy decisions are complex and need to take into consideration a large number of factors.  Something that does not translate well into short ballot questions.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on March 31, 2015, 03:38:56 PM
Yeah a big issue in California is how no ballot measures to pay for things (taxes) ever pass but ballot measures for spending often do. :(
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on March 31, 2015, 03:58:25 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on March 31, 2015, 03:35:01 PM
Quote from: Martinus on March 31, 2015, 03:01:13 PM
To me, democracy is a process of appointing / selecting the people's "employees" entrusted with the task of governance.

Just as I don't want my doctor to ask me which drug he should use to treat my disease, or my car mechanic to ask me what tool he should use to fix my car, I don't want my government to ask me what policy should be introduced - I am paying them to take the decision (and the responsibility) for me.

The complaint I have is that policy decisions are complex and need to take into consideration a large number of factors.  Something that does not translate well into short ballot questions.
Yep. It's like people wondering how to re-capture the energy of the Scottish independence referendum.

The sad truth is NHS spending priorities don't provide such easy yes/no existential choices :lol:

It's one of the few areas I'm generally with Maggie. Plebiscites and referendums are the tools of demagogues and dictators.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Baron von Schtinkenbutt on April 03, 2015, 01:59:28 PM
Apparently you are privileged now grabon.

QuoteUnmasking Black Gay Privilege (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-fitzgerald-gates-phd/unmasking-black-gay-privilege_b_6978224.html?)

Whereas "white male privilege" is widely debated, a study by Princeton University researcher David S. Pedulla suggests that black gay men may benefit from forms of privilege as well. Such an idea is counterintuitive to many people who consider black gay men to be triply disadvantaged -- subjected, individually and collectively, to prejudices of race, gender and sexuality. But according to the study, "The Positive Consequences of Negative Stereotypes: Race, Sexual Orientation, and the Job Application Process," and echoed by a number of black gay men with whom I have discussed the issue, being perceived as gay, if one is black, may indeed impose an "offsetting stereotype" of being nonthreatening that advantages some black gay men over some black straight men. I call this phenomenon "black gay privilege."

The study found that when people were provided resumes to review to make salary recommendations for job candidates they perceived to be black gay men, they recommended salaries equal to those recommended for candidates the reviewers perceived to be straight white men. Candidates perceived to be straight black men, along with those perceived to be gay white men, were recommended lower salaries. The study concluded that black gay men face less prejudice than either straight black men or gay white men. While the study and its conclusions are fraught, it raises issues worthy of exploration. Does "black gay privilege" really exist?

Racial stereotyping of black men as lazy savages given to extreme sexual prowess and posing an existential threat to white society is deeply rooted in America sociology. From the time of slavery to now, black men have been perceived either as thugs to be feared or, if successful, having "made it against the odds." There has been little room for alternative narratives in the America imagination, notwithstanding the election of Barak Obama to the presidency of the United States. It remains true that in some companies, normative perceptions of black men are tinged with fright of the black "boogieman" that manifests in biases in hiring, promotion and salary. This same phenomenon is present in the social interactions black men have in stores, with police, and walking down the street every day. It is also true that to mitigate their shame in being biased against black men generally, some white power elites give preferential treatment to gay black men. After all, they can't be chided for being prejudiced against black men if they hire "the gays."

The literature shows that the masculinity of black gay men is often feminized in popular culture, thereby reducing the impact of traditional black male stereotypes and serving as a counter, sometimes beneficial, stereotype. Within companies, black gay privilege carries a tacit obligation and expectation that one's gayness trumps ones blackness in affairs with the company. In this sense, black gay men are paid to be compliant.

Black gay privilege is an attempt by white power elites to erase the shame of their prejudice. But black gay privilege is as great an assault against black gay men as it is against black straight men. For it casts black gay men in the "sambo" image of the past in which black men who were deemed "acceptable" to white employers were caricatured by whites and blacks alike as compliant, affable beings whose primary goal was to please. Hence, black gay privilege is not an endorsement of black gay men, but rather a denunciation of black male authenticity from which some have benefitted.

I have benefitted from black gay privilege throughout my career as a senior human resources, financial and diversity officer. I have accessed spaces and opportunities that "stereotypical" black men were not able to, and I have been in a position to ensure that my salary has always been competitive. While I would like to claim that my successes have all been based on my merit, the truth is that some have been based on peoples' perceptions of me as a black gay man they could work with. They were unaware of what James Baldwin called "the fire shut up in my bones" for black male equality. I am not alone. One colleague framed his use of black gay privilege as subversive, saying:

QuoteI ... love it when they can't see the steel behind the chiffon -- it gives me an edge. I have used black gay privilege to open doors for straight male counterparts who would have never been given an opportunity -- and they didn't even realize what was going on.

Yet, black gay privilege is a harmful microaggression against all black men, as the underlying message is a rejection of our humanity. This is an ageless burden that fractures and disconnects black men from the social fabrics of the organizations we serve. Such phenomena speak less to black gay privilege than to white privilege in constructing a racially divisive paradigm to placate their bias. It is incumbent upon black gay men to examine the impacts of black gay privilege on their lives, and for employers to countermand the implicit biases that have given rise to this system of prejudice.

As a black man, I perceive any attempt to separate me from other black men, gay or straight, as an assault on my dignity; indeed, a reproof of my being, for my spirit is connected to all black men, which is the greatest privilege of all.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on April 03, 2015, 02:01:22 PM
Who knew?

edit: Course, I've still not seen a gay online profile that has said "No whites"
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: derspiess on April 03, 2015, 02:07:09 PM
Well, maybe not if you're *too* gay... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3h6es6zh1c
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on April 03, 2015, 02:28:32 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 03, 2015, 02:01:22 PM
Who knew?

edit: Course, I've still not seen a gay online profile that has said "No whites"

Perhaps, but Michael Sam has recently said in an interview he is getting a lot of shit from black gay fans for having a white fiancee.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on April 03, 2015, 02:31:59 PM
Great?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on April 03, 2015, 02:37:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX1bL-NE74U
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on April 03, 2015, 03:20:31 PM
Quote from: Martinus on April 03, 2015, 02:28:32 PM
Perhaps, but Michael Sam has recently said in an interview he is getting a lot of shit from black gay fans for having a white fiancee.

Jealousy is an ugly thing.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: derspiess on April 03, 2015, 03:21:54 PM
Why does Michael Sam always look like he's crying?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on April 03, 2015, 03:33:11 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 03, 2015, 03:21:54 PM
Why does Michael Sam always look like he's crying?

I think it is a common trait of sport people and rap artists. They look so intense.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Ed Anger on April 03, 2015, 08:05:56 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 03, 2015, 03:21:54 PM
Why does Michael Sam always look like he's crying?

Because he doesn't have what it takes to hack it in the NFL?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on April 05, 2015, 04:13:30 AM
Quote from: Ed Anger on April 03, 2015, 08:05:56 PM
Quote from: derspiess on April 03, 2015, 03:21:54 PM
Why does Michael Sam always look like he's crying?

Because he doesn't have what it takes to hack it in the NFL?

*rimshot*
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on April 05, 2015, 07:34:32 AM
Why would he even be in the news now?  I thought he washed out of the NFL after like a week. :hmm:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on April 05, 2015, 07:40:41 AM
He's on Dancing with the Minor E-Celebrities.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on April 05, 2015, 08:03:55 AM
Oh, I see. :)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on May 22, 2015, 10:44:43 AM
Quote from: Caliga on April 05, 2015, 07:34:32 AM
Why would he even be in the news now?  I thought he washed out of the NFL after like a week. :hmm:

Michael Sam signed with the Montreal Alouettes today.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/football/cfl/michael-sam-nfl-s-1st-openly-gay-player-signs-with-cfl-s-montreal-alouettes-1.3083647
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Brazen on May 22, 2015, 10:52:02 AM
Ireland is voting on gay marriage today.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/22/irish-voters-set-to-make-history-in-gay-marriage-referendum (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/22/irish-voters-set-to-make-history-in-gay-marriage-referendum)

Many Irish people living abroad and travelling home in a rainbow blur to cast their vote, sparking the hashtag #hometovote

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/22/hometovote-irish-abroad-return-vote-twitter-gay-marriage-referendum (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/22/hometovote-irish-abroad-return-vote-twitter-gay-marriage-referendum)


Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on May 22, 2015, 10:59:46 AM
Are Yuro referendums always at the instigation of legislatures, or are also petition procedures?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Larch on May 22, 2015, 11:43:38 AM
Quote from: Brazen on May 22, 2015, 10:52:02 AM
Ireland is voting on gay marriage today.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/22/irish-voters-set-to-make-history-in-gay-marriage-referendum (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/22/irish-voters-set-to-make-history-in-gay-marriage-referendum)

Many Irish people living abroad and travelling home in a rainbow blur to cast their vote, sparking the hashtag #hometovote

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/22/hometovote-irish-abroad-return-vote-twitter-gay-marriage-referendum (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/22/hometovote-irish-abroad-return-vote-twitter-gay-marriage-referendum)

Rainbow blur in Ireland?  :hmm:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftheleprechaunluau.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F12%2Flucky.png&hash=8f9f0fa41b931b61e9f7e9f8eacda4a8d4937333)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Tonitrus on May 22, 2015, 03:45:42 PM
Quote from: Barrister on May 22, 2015, 10:44:43 AM
Quote from: Caliga on April 05, 2015, 07:34:32 AM
Why would he even be in the news now?  I thought he washed out of the NFL after like a week. :hmm:

Michael Sam signed with the Montreal Alouettes today.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/football/cfl/michael-sam-nfl-s-1st-openly-gay-player-signs-with-cfl-s-montreal-alouettes-1.3083647

Another team stolen from Baltimore.  :(
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on June 03, 2015, 12:24:13 PM
In Germany, discussion about marriage for homosexual couples has been re-opened.

The minister president of Saarland, Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer (CDU) said in an interview that she rejects the notion of homosexual couples marrying, because defining marriage as between two adults (regardless of gender) might be the first step onto a slippery slope and might lead to demands that close relatives can marry, or that a marriage could consist of more than two people.

This is Mrs Kramp-Karrenbauer:
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.zeit.de%2Fpolitik%2Fdeutschland%2F2015-06%2Fkramp-karrenbauer-3%2Fkramp-karrenbauer-3-540x304.jpg&hash=7c7ee7f9865fefd38a4c5461496cf853c4336419)

This has led to a bit of a shitstorm. A lawyer in Berlin has filed criminal charges for libel and Volksverhetzung (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksverhetzung) ("incitement of popular hatred").
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 03, 2015, 12:26:06 PM
How the hell do you get libel?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on June 03, 2015, 12:27:26 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 03, 2015, 12:26:06 PM
How the hell do you get libel?

Toilet seat.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 03, 2015, 12:40:05 PM
This could explain why some German people I know wanted to dump Saarland and give it to France, though the guy meant it for Lafontaine.  :hmm:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Grallon on June 03, 2015, 12:43:46 PM
Anyone saw this gem from India, the land of rape and honey?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/gay-teenager-forced-to-have-sex-with-his-own-mother-in-corrective-rape-in-india-10291949.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/gay-teenager-forced-to-have-sex-with-his-own-mother-in-corrective-rape-in-india-10291949.html)



G.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 03, 2015, 12:46:37 PM
I don't understand how incestuous marriages relate to gay marriages. I mean I guess they could be the same marriage if it were two brothers or something.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 03, 2015, 12:50:54 PM
Quote from: Grallon on June 03, 2015, 12:43:46 PM
Anyone saw this gem from India, the land of rape and honey?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/gay-teenager-forced-to-have-sex-with-his-own-mother-in-corrective-rape-in-india-10291949.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/gay-teenager-forced-to-have-sex-with-his-own-mother-in-corrective-rape-in-india-10291949.html)

Well now that is a rather unexpected way being gay could be the first step in a slippery slope to incest.

But seriously wow....words fail me.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 03, 2015, 12:56:15 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 03, 2015, 12:46:37 PM
I don't understand how incestuous marriages relate to gay marriages. I mean I guess they could be the same marriage if it were two brothers or something.

Marriage prohibitions based on taboos.

I figure polygamy and polyandry are just a question of time.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on June 03, 2015, 12:58:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 03, 2015, 12:46:37 PM
I don't understand how incestuous marriages relate to gay marriages. I mean I guess they could be the same marriage if it were two brothers or something.

It's the slippery slope argument: marriage is between man and woman. If we change it to man/man or woman/woman, where does it end? Father/daughter?? Man/dog??? Woman/toaster??11??#)&!§
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 03, 2015, 12:58:39 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 03, 2015, 12:56:15 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 03, 2015, 12:46:37 PM
I don't understand how incestuous marriages relate to gay marriages. I mean I guess they could be the same marriage if it were two brothers or something.

Marriage prohibitions based on taboos.

I figure polygamy and polyandry are just a question of time.

Does one thing ceasing to be a taboo mean there are no more taboos?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 03, 2015, 12:59:14 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 03, 2015, 12:58:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 03, 2015, 12:46:37 PM
I don't understand how incestuous marriages relate to gay marriages. I mean I guess they could be the same marriage if it were two brothers or something.

It's the slippery slope argument: marriage is between man and woman. If we change it to man/man or woman/woman, where does it end? Father/daughter?? Man/dog??? Woman/toaster??11??#)&!§

Well there was that dark moment we first allowed a man to marry his brother's widow. We all know what that led to. That's right: the Anglican Church.  :ph34r:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 03, 2015, 01:03:31 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 03, 2015, 12:58:39 PM
Does one thing ceasing to be a taboo mean there are no more taboos?

Empirically, no.  Even in states with gay marriages dogs are generally not eaten.

However, if taboo is rejected as a rationale for prohibition in one case, it makes it hard to argue for it's maintenance in another.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on June 03, 2015, 01:04:28 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 03, 2015, 12:58:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 03, 2015, 12:46:37 PM
I don't understand how incestuous marriages relate to gay marriages. I mean I guess they could be the same marriage if it were two brothers or something.

It's the slippery slope argument: marriage is between man and woman. If we change it to man/man or woman/woman, where does it end? Father/daughter?? Man/dog??? Woman/toaster??11??#)&!§

Some slopes really are slippery though.

We have decided that it was completely arbitrary to limit marriage to being between one man and one woman.  Now marriage is between two people.

As Yi points out though - is the restriction that a marriage is only between two people any more arbitrary?  I'm with Yi, I think that polygamous marriage  is probably inevitable, though that could still takes many years.

Incest, bestiality, and toaster-sex  taboos have a much better chance of remaining however, due to the difficulty in determining consent.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 03, 2015, 01:17:00 PM
What would be very interesting to see is how society would respond to wealthy men grabbing all the available women. 
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: derspiess on June 03, 2015, 01:19:55 PM
Someone get a lawyer in Berlin to sue Yi and Barrister for libel.  They are guilty of holding the wrong opinion.  I bet you're both secretly Saarlanders :angry:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 03, 2015, 01:20:03 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 03, 2015, 01:17:00 PM
What would be very interesting to see is how society would respond to wealthy men grabbing all the available women. 

Probably be entertained with the explosion of the women taking all their money in divorce cases.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on June 03, 2015, 01:24:16 PM
The truly rich could still do it the old fashioned way - multiple mistresses.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 03, 2015, 01:27:45 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 03, 2015, 01:24:16 PM
The truly rich could still do it the old fashioned way - multiple mistresses.

Well they can do that just fine now :P

The main reasons to get state support marriages are practical ones. I don't see any practical advantages to some billionaire being legally tied to his harem.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on June 03, 2015, 01:34:34 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 03, 2015, 01:27:45 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 03, 2015, 01:24:16 PM
The truly rich could still do it the old fashioned way - multiple mistresses.

Well they can do that just fine now :P

The main reasons to get state support marriages are practical ones. I don't see any practical advantages to some billionaire being legally tied to his harem.

Well that's what I was saying. :p

Besides, the predominating cultural trend has been against marriage, period.  I doubt that legalizing polygamy would lead to a widespread trend of rich men having multiple wives.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on June 03, 2015, 02:22:43 PM
I don't think the state has to be involved in the marriage business.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: derspiess on June 03, 2015, 02:26:44 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 03, 2015, 02:22:43 PM
I don't think the state has to be involved in the marriage business.

Pretty much agree.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 03, 2015, 02:51:09 PM
Quote from: The Brain on June 03, 2015, 02:22:43 PM
I don't think the state has to be involved in the marriage business.

Unfortunately the state has to enforce contracts so it pretty much has to be no matter what form marriage eventually takes.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Razgovory on June 03, 2015, 05:37:10 PM
I think Yi and Barrister have a point.  If the Marriage is now between two consenting adults, why must it only be two?  Why not three?  Why can't those people be family members?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 03, 2015, 05:52:49 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 03, 2015, 01:03:31 PM
However, if taboo is rejected as a rationale for prohibition in one case, it makes it hard to argue for it's maintenance in another.

I'm not sure how much is that taboo has been rejected as a rationale and how much is that that particular taboo has been eroded.  :hmm:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 03, 2015, 05:59:04 PM
Do you feel like trying again in English?  :hmm:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 03, 2015, 07:03:20 PM
People are still fine with banning things that are taboo; homosexuality isn't nearly as taboo as it was 50 years ago.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 03, 2015, 07:13:56 PM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on June 03, 2015, 07:03:20 PM
People are still fine with banning things that are taboo; homosexuality isn't nearly as taboo as it was 50 years ago.

The only taboo I can think of that people are fine with is the one I touched on: consumption of charismatic fauna. 

I think the fact that homosexuality has been un-tabooed reinforces my point.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Maximus on June 03, 2015, 10:23:05 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 03, 2015, 05:37:10 PM
I think Yi and Barrister have a point.  If the Marriage is now between two consenting adults, why must it only be two?  Why not three?  Why can't those people be family members?
Indeed, why not?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 03, 2015, 10:55:06 PM
I have always thought that incest between consenting adults is going to be the next one to go. Unless you want to engage in eugenics, there is really no rationale for banning it that is not already caught by laws against coercive sex. And of course the eugenics argument is irrelevant for homosexual incest.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 03, 2015, 10:59:10 PM
Incidentally, a ban against homosexual incestuous marriage could be easily challenged. If you have a brother marrying a sister, the society could argue that this should be prohibited because of the risk of producing genetically defective offspring (as I said this is too eugenic-y for a liberal society, imo, but still the argument at least has some basis in reality).

But what if you have two brothers wanting to marry each other? Assuming they are sound of mind, and there is no element of coercion, how is this going to be addressed? I can see such ban not standing in court, to be honest.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 04, 2015, 12:46:13 AM
The issue of consent among family members is a signifcant issue. There will be exceptions were both individuals have equal agency, but in the great majority of such relationships there will be significant power discrepency and laws are written with the majority of relationships in mind.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on June 04, 2015, 12:56:43 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 04, 2015, 12:46:13 AM
The issue of consent among family members is a signifcant issue. There will be exceptions were both individuals have equal agency, but in the great majority of such relationships there will be significant power discrepency and laws are written with the majority of relationships in mind.

What significant power discrepancy?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Brazen on June 04, 2015, 05:22:55 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 03, 2015, 10:59:10 PM
Incidentally, a ban against homosexual incestuous marriage could be easily challenged. If you have a brother marrying a sister, the society could argue that this should be prohibited because of the risk of producing genetically defective offspring (as I said this is too eugenic-y for a liberal society, imo, but still the argument at least has some basis in reality).

But what if you have two brothers wanting to marry each other? Assuming they are sound of mind, and there is no element of coercion, how is this going to be addressed? I can see such ban not standing in court, to be honest.
I know it's not what you're talking about, but there have been examples of gay couples where one officially adopted the other to get the same inheritance rights as married couple, then they went on to marry each other when the law changed, effectively a son marrying is father.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 04, 2015, 07:45:42 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 03, 2015, 10:59:10 PM
But what if you have two brothers wanting to marry each other? Assuming they are sound of mind, and there is no element of coercion, how is this going to be addressed? I can see such ban not standing in court, to be honest.

First of all there is no practical reason for them to get married. They are already close family members and so the annoyances non-related gay couples had are non-issues. Secondly how would you prove there are no elements of coercion?

So what would be the social value of allowing this?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 04, 2015, 08:29:28 AM
Quote from: Valmy on June 04, 2015, 07:45:42 AM
Secondly how would you prove there are no elements of coercion?

Burden of proof is on the one asserting a positive (in this case, existence of coercion), not the one denying it. You cannot prove the negative.
QuoteSo what would be the social value of allowing this?

Same as with the above, in a free society, the burden should be on the party willing to ban some practice between consenting adults - not the one willing to allow it. The social value is, obviously, letting adults decide who they wish to be married to and thus achieving greater happiness for the parties involved.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 04, 2015, 08:31:56 AM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 04, 2015, 12:46:13 AM
The issue of consent among family members is a signifcant issue. There will be exceptions were both individuals have equal agency, but in the great majority of such relationships there will be significant power discrepency and laws are written with the majority of relationships in mind.

Do you have any evidence for this assertion or is it just your belief? And surely we should assume free agency between consenting adults, unless proven otherwise.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 04, 2015, 08:34:36 AM
Most of the antis seem to be thinking of father/daughter.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 04, 2015, 08:36:10 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 04, 2015, 08:34:36 AM
Most of the antis seem to be thinking of father/daughter.

Yeah but my example was specifically referring to two brothers. There is really no argument against such sex being illegal (unless one proves there is coercion, but then the same goes for two unrelated men fucking).
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 04, 2015, 08:48:19 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 04, 2015, 08:29:28 AM
Same as with the above, in a free society, the burden should be on the party willing to ban some practice between consenting adults - not the one willing to allow it. The social value is, obviously, letting adults decide who they wish to be married to and thus achieving greater happiness for the parties involved.

But we are not talking about banning anything, we are talking about adding legal privileges. The fact it was burdensome to define marriage between a man and a woman for gay and lesbian couples marry was easily demonstrated, this would not apply here. Plus you had the separate but equal argument, this also would not apply here. This would be a special privilege only reserved for same sex couples.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 04, 2015, 09:00:49 AM
The predominant argument in favour of gay marriage is that it is equal rights issue, not a social policy privilege issue. So the same applies to two brothers marrying each other.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 04, 2015, 09:14:51 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 04, 2015, 09:00:49 AM
The predominant argument in favour of gay marriage is that it is equal rights issue, not a social policy privilege issue. So the same applies to two brothers marrying each other.

I know and I mentioned that and I just explained why it does not apply.

Though I do not like equal rights as a defense of positive policy. That seems like a tool of leftism to explain why socialism is a human right or something.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on June 04, 2015, 10:48:46 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 03, 2015, 10:55:06 PM
I have always thought that incest between consenting adults is going to be the next one to go. Unless you want to engage in eugenics, there is really no rationale for banning it that is not already caught by laws against coercive sex. And of course the eugenics argument is irrelevant for homosexual incest.

The argument against any kind of incest, hetero or homosexual, is not based nearly as much on fears of inbreeding (although that exists) as it is on issues of consent.

Meh - I had a long answer typed out, wasn't satisfied with it, then realized I'm not going to change your mind no matter what I type - you're very much of the libertarian "I can do whatever I want" point of view.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 05, 2015, 05:14:46 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 04, 2015, 10:48:46 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 03, 2015, 10:55:06 PM
I have always thought that incest between consenting adults is going to be the next one to go. Unless you want to engage in eugenics, there is really no rationale for banning it that is not already caught by laws against coercive sex. And of course the eugenics argument is irrelevant for homosexual incest.

The argument against any kind of incest, hetero or homosexual, is not based nearly as much on fears of inbreeding (although that exists) as it is on issues of consent.

Meh - I had a long answer typed out, wasn't satisfied with it, then realized I'm not going to change your mind no matter what I type - you're very much of the libertarian "I can do whatever I want" point of view.

Yeah, probably. My position is that everything should be permitted unless there is a very strong case why it should be banned. There are of course cases where incest could involve questions around consent - especially in a parent-child relationship where the question of "grooming" can arise. But the blanket ban against incest is simply painting the issue with too-broad-a-brush and this is not acceptable in a modern liberal society, especially when it comes to something as central to one's happiness and emotional well-being as the issue of love, sex and intimacy. The current regulation should be scrapped or replaced with something more proportional to the perceived threats (and only after a decent study has been put together to understand the scope of such threats in the first place).

If, for example, I found out that I had a long lost brother whom I never met before - it would be a crime for us to have sex - why?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 05, 2015, 05:19:52 AM
And no, my position is not "I can do whatever I want", it's "Anyone should be allowed to express himself or herself freely, in particular in matters of sex, love and intimacy, as long as this is done between consenting adults of any race, age, ethnicity, gender, sex, creed, politics, persuasion, profession or DNA make-up." Religions, taboos, social mores and eugenics should fuck off and die.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 05, 2015, 07:22:28 AM
QuoteIf, for example, I found out that I had a long lost brother whom I never met before - it would be a crime for us to have sex - why?

If it is a crime it should not be. I was not aware we were talking about throwing people in prison.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on June 05, 2015, 07:28:26 AM
Social mores should fuck off? :o
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 05, 2015, 07:33:21 AM
I wouldn't want the prevention of birth defects to fuck off.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: crazy canuck on June 05, 2015, 01:48:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 05, 2015, 07:22:28 AM
QuoteIf, for example, I found out that I had a long lost brother whom I never met before - it would be a crime for us to have sex - why?

If it is a crime it should not be. I was not aware we were talking about throwing people in prison.

Marti is forgetting that intent is part of what makes an act criminal...
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on June 05, 2015, 02:10:28 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 05, 2015, 05:14:46 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 04, 2015, 10:48:46 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 03, 2015, 10:55:06 PM
I have always thought that incest between consenting adults is going to be the next one to go. Unless you want to engage in eugenics, there is really no rationale for banning it that is not already caught by laws against coercive sex. And of course the eugenics argument is irrelevant for homosexual incest.

The argument against any kind of incest, hetero or homosexual, is not based nearly as much on fears of inbreeding (although that exists) as it is on issues of consent.

Meh - I had a long answer typed out, wasn't satisfied with it, then realized I'm not going to change your mind no matter what I type - you're very much of the libertarian "I can do whatever I want" point of view.

Yeah, probably. My position is that everything should be permitted unless there is a very strong case why it should be banned. There are of course cases where incest could involve questions around consent - especially in a parent-child relationship where the question of "grooming" can arise. But the blanket ban against incest is simply painting the issue with too-broad-a-brush and this is not acceptable in a modern liberal society, especially when it comes to something as central to one's happiness and emotional well-being as the issue of love, sex and intimacy. The current regulation should be scrapped or replaced with something more proportional to the perceived threats (and only after a decent study has been put together to understand the scope of such threats in the first place).

If, for example, I found out that I had a long lost brother whom I never met before - it would be a crime for us to have sex - why?

There's a reason why "long lost brothers" are a staple of soap operas - in the real world such things are very uncommon.

That is apparently "a thing", by the way.  People tend to be sexually attracted to people who look like them.  So when brothers / sisters who did not grow up together meet as adults, it's not unheard of for them to be sexually attracted to each other.  There's a brother / sister couple in germany that led a push to get that country's incest laws struck down who met on similar circumstances (they were unsuccessful by the way).

But like I said - it's rare.  And what unfortunately is not so rare is sexual abuse within families.  My office is full of files where that goes on.

Many times the law is much better to make clear, bright lines between what is allwoed and what is not.  Trying to untangle consent between a father and now adult daughter, when that father has been a part of that daughters entire life, sounds horrendously complicated.  Far simpler to say "you can have sex with whomever you want - just not the 6 or 12 people you're closely related to".  It's also minimally instrusive, because it prevents you from having sex with such a small number of people.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 05, 2015, 02:34:00 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 05, 2015, 01:48:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 05, 2015, 07:22:28 AM
QuoteIf, for example, I found out that I had a long lost brother whom I never met before - it would be a crime for us to have sex - why?

If it is a crime it should not be. I was not aware we were talking about throwing people in prison.

Marti is forgetting that intent is part of what makes an act criminal...

Not really. I was talking about a situation when I would have sex with him after finding out he is my brother. The anti-incest instinct is based on growing up together, not on having a similar genetic make-up.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 05, 2015, 02:35:23 PM
Anyway, to change the subject - I disagree with this decision and Peter Thatchell:

QuoteUKIP rejected from Pride in London

The Board of Pride in London have said UKIP will not be marching in this year's parade.

Veteran campaigner Peter Tatchell spoke out against their inclusion, whereas others argued Pride should welcome all facets of the LGBT community.

After days of discussion and negotiations, the board released a statement this evening.

It says: "For this year we have reached the decision that UKIP's application to join the Pride in London Parade, 27th June 2015, will be turned down.

"This decision has been made after careful consultation in order to protect participants and ensure the event passes off safely and in the right spirit, it has not been made on a political basis.

"We appreciate many in our community have strongly held views about UKIP, their policies and comments, but is undeniable that there are LGBT+ members of UKIP, including their MEP for Scotland, and it is important to remember that Pride in London aims to be an inclusive event.

"However, of paramount concern to us is the experience of all participants at Pride, most especially the position we would be putting our volunteer stewards in."

It is understood that 'sit-ins' or other direct action has been threatened in order to disrupt the parade, and organisers were consulting with sponsors over the issue.

A petition calling for their application to march to be denied says: "Nigel Farage, leader of UKIP, clearly does not support the values of acceptance that Pride promotes, and UKIP is an inherently homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, racist and misogynistic political party."
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 05, 2015, 02:39:04 PM
Clearly they watered down the petition language to maximize signatures. :lol:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 05, 2015, 02:58:27 PM
So wait the threat by the anti-UKIP people were so potentially extreme that they banned the UKIP to protect the safety of their volunteers?

When Pride Parades start censuring themselves to not be controversial I wonder what point they serve. 'Come and be proud of your conformity!'

I mean I don't know maybe the UKIP is radically homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, racist and misogynistic to an extent that it would be equivalent to allowing the KKK to march in their parade. However, considering the level of support this party received I am going out on a limb and assume that is a bit hyperbolic :P

Does the UKIP hold any anti-gay sentiments that would make them more unacceptable than simple gay tories?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on June 05, 2015, 03:09:32 PM
How often do homophobes want to march in gay pride parades?  :hmm:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Duque de Bragança on June 05, 2015, 03:12:48 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 05, 2015, 03:09:32 PM
How often do closet homophobes want to march in gay pride parades?  :hmm:

Even better.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 05, 2015, 03:14:55 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 05, 2015, 03:09:32 PM
How often do homophobes want to march in gay pride parades?  :hmm:

Proud of facing their fears?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 05, 2015, 03:18:28 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 05, 2015, 03:09:32 PM
How often do homophobes want to march in gay pride parades?  :hmm:

I guess that takes self-hating to a new level. :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on June 05, 2015, 03:37:13 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 05, 2015, 03:14:55 PM
Quote from: Malthus on June 05, 2015, 03:09:32 PM
How often do homophobes want to march in gay pride parades?  :hmm:

Proud of facing their fears?

I guess it is a sort of therapy, then?  :D

Seems cruel to deny them treatment.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 05, 2015, 11:10:31 PM
So what do you guys make of the whole Bruce/Catleen Jenner thing?

Whatever your views on transgenderism are, I am surprised by the level of hate coming from some media outlets and some (especially black) celebrities.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Tonitrus on June 05, 2015, 11:26:17 PM
I think it is getting way more media hype than it deserves, but people who get all bent out of shape with hate over it are just stupid.

Life is too short to hate.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 05, 2015, 11:35:51 PM
I don't think he should be allowed to compete in the women's decathlon.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fia.media-imdb.com%2Fimages%2FM%2FMV5BMTg5Nzg0MDUwNF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNTI2MDIyMjE%40._V1_SY317_CR104%2C0%2C214%2C317_AL_.jpg&hash=749d49ba0c8a558c41ae5b5b7c2f889f96fd8a6c)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on June 05, 2015, 11:45:42 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 05, 2015, 11:10:31 PM
So what do you guys make of the whole Bruce/Catleen Jenner thing?

Whatever your views on transgenderism are, I am surprised by the level of hate coming from some media outlets and some (especially black) celebrities.

:huh:

I thought she was getting a tremendous amount of support from the popular media.

Hell, the most hate I'd seen was from BuddhaRhubarb on Facebook pointing out that Caitlin's experience hardly mirrors that of most transgendered people.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 05, 2015, 11:53:30 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 05, 2015, 11:45:42 PM
Hell, the most hate I'd seen was from BuddhaRhubarb on Facebook pointing out that Caitlin's experience hardly mirrors that of most transgendered people.

Heh, if anyone would decide to be transgendered just for the attention, it would be a member of that family.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 06, 2015, 01:00:36 AM
Quote from: Barrister on June 05, 2015, 11:45:42 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 05, 2015, 11:10:31 PM
So what do you guys make of the whole Bruce/Catleen Jenner thing?

Whatever your views on transgenderism are, I am surprised by the level of hate coming from some media outlets and some (especially black) celebrities.

:huh:

I thought she was getting a tremendous amount of support from the popular media.

Hell, the most hate I'd seen was from BuddhaRhubarb on Facebook pointing out that Caitlin's experience hardly mirrors that of most transgendered people.

Well, maybe I hang out in the wrong parts of the Internets (or this gets over-reported by LGBT sites I subscribe to on Facebook), but:

http://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/jennifer-graham/2015/06/04/Jennifer-Graham-Caitlyn-Jenner-is-still-a-mister/stories/201506040047
http://howafrica.com/angry-snoop-is-wondering-why-the-world-overlooked-akons-project-calls-bruce-jenner-a-science-project/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crWSV2V0-8w&feature=youtu.be
http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/bruce-jenner-is-not-a-woman-he-is-a-sick-and-delusional-man/

Now I get that there is a lot of media circus regarding this and it is probably rightly lampooned for being a part of the whole "Kardashian experience" (the way Bill Maher does for example), but this stuff goes into pure unwarranted hate.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Razgovory on June 06, 2015, 01:59:23 AM
I can't help but  be leery of transsexual recognition.  I'm not entirely keen having some someone impose their fantasy world on the rest of us and demand that we accept facts that aren't actually true.

I am going to get so much shit on this. :(
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on June 06, 2015, 02:02:05 AM
:hmm:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on June 06, 2015, 03:33:37 AM
Quote from: Malthus on June 05, 2015, 03:09:32 PM
How often do homophobes want to march in gay pride parades?  :hmm:
When it lets them glare at other homophobes (Muslims) and pretend to be lovely so normal people will support their douche baggery
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 06, 2015, 04:07:44 AM
Saw a picture tonight in which he/she looked pretty damn good.

Saw two more pictures in which he/she looked like a dude with lipstick.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 06, 2015, 06:44:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 06, 2015, 01:59:23 AM
I can't help but  be leery of transsexual recognition.  I'm not entirely keen having some someone impose their fantasy world on the rest of us and demand that we accept facts that aren't actually true.

I am going to get so much shit on this. :(

I guess it's the same way we are expected to use the word "Pope" or "rabbi" to describe a bullshit peddler with sexual hang-ups who lives in a fantasy world.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2015, 12:38:07 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 05, 2015, 11:10:31 PM
So what do you guys make of the whole Bruce/Catleen Jenner thing?

I was like 'oh that guy who won the Decathalon back when I was a little kid? Well good for her sorry it happened so late in life'

And then the story just kept going and going and going and going. I was not aware of the hate. Sad but I guess not surprising. But even if you personally do not like transgender stuff at least be polite damn. It isn't any of your business.

QuoteSaw two more pictures in which he/she looked like a dude with lipstick.

Well think of it like this: if we are more respectful of transgender issues we can catch them while they are still kids and are less likely to have this problem. But having said that it is not like there are not plenty of ugly women.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2015, 12:41:23 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 06, 2015, 01:59:23 AM
I can't help but  be leery of transsexual recognition.  I'm not entirely keen having some someone impose their fantasy world on the rest of us and demand that we accept facts that aren't actually true.

Only in the very specific realm of sexual reproduction would I expect that to relevant. Like if I was dating a transwoman with the expectation we were going to have children and she led me on that that was a possibility. But that would kind of go for anybody who cannot reproduce for whatever reason. But beyond that I don't see why I would care if somebody wants me to treat them like a man or a woman. No biggie.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Razgovory on June 06, 2015, 05:24:32 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2015, 06:44:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 06, 2015, 01:59:23 AM
I can't help but  be leery of transsexual recognition.  I'm not entirely keen having some someone impose their fantasy world on the rest of us and demand that we accept facts that aren't actually true.

I am going to get so much shit on this. :(

I guess it's the same way we are expected to use the word "Pope" or "rabbi" to describe a bullshit peddler with sexual hang-ups who lives in a fantasy world.

Would you have sex with a woman if she decided to reclassify herself as a man?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Razgovory on June 06, 2015, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2015, 12:41:23 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 06, 2015, 01:59:23 AM
I can't help but  be leery of transsexual recognition.  I'm not entirely keen having some someone impose their fantasy world on the rest of us and demand that we accept facts that aren't actually true.

Only in the very specific realm of sexual reproduction would I expect that to relevant. Like if I was dating a transwoman with the expectation we were going to have children and she led me on that that was a possibility. But that would kind of go for anybody who cannot reproduce for whatever reason. But beyond that I don't see why I would care if somebody wants me to treat them like a man or a woman. No biggie.

It feels a lot like patronizing someone.  Marty, brought up religion ( I suspected he would), would you be bothered if you were expected to act as if certain religious beliefs were true even though you don't believe they are?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 06, 2015, 05:53:44 PM
http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2015/06/06/smr-trangender-doctor-on-caitlyn-jenner.cnn

CNN interviewed a transgender doctor who makes vaginas.  Pretty good looking.  I would hit it.

Also the procedure is a lot cheaper than I would have thought: $25,000.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 06, 2015, 07:10:48 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 06, 2015, 05:32:08 PM
It feels a lot like patronizing someone.  Marty, brought up religion ( I suspected he would), would you be bothered if you were expected to act as if certain religious beliefs were true even though you don't believe they are?

Don't we already do this to some extent with our freedom of religion thing and tax breaks for Scientology?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Razgovory on June 06, 2015, 08:20:52 PM
The state does, you are not required to do so.  You, Valmy are not required to recognize thetans nor should you if you don't believe that to be true.  You can pretend you do, but that smacks of patronizing.  I dislike like people demanding I substitute their fantasy for objective reality be they man, woman, or otherkin.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 06, 2015, 11:46:52 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 06, 2015, 05:24:32 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2015, 06:44:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 06, 2015, 01:59:23 AM
I can't help but  be leery of transsexual recognition.  I'm not entirely keen having some someone impose their fantasy world on the rest of us and demand that we accept facts that aren't actually true.

I am going to get so much shit on this. :(

I guess it's the same way we are expected to use the word "Pope" or "rabbi" to describe a bullshit peddler with sexual hang-ups who lives in a fantasy world.

Would you have sex with a woman if she decided to reclassify herself as a man?

Not sure what that has to do with anything - I would not have sex with a lot of men - that does not change the fact that they are men.

But to answer your question: I don't know. I guess it would depend on how they smelled - I don't know enough about gender reassignment procedure and associated hormonal treatment to know if this also changes pheromones and stuff. But if that part was right, I see no reason why not (I'm not much into dicks anyway) - for example the trans guy who is running for Men's Health award (the picture of whom I posted in the past on this forum) looks quite hot, so if he smelled right, I definitely would.

Edit: and for the record, transgendered people do frequently find partners nominally attracted to the gender that they transitioned to - and not all of them are T-chasers. I say let people be who they believe they are as long as they are not hurting anyone else.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 06, 2015, 11:50:54 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 06, 2015, 05:32:08 PM
Quote from: Valmy on June 06, 2015, 12:41:23 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 06, 2015, 01:59:23 AM
I can't help but  be leery of transsexual recognition.  I'm not entirely keen having some someone impose their fantasy world on the rest of us and demand that we accept facts that aren't actually true.

Only in the very specific realm of sexual reproduction would I expect that to relevant. Like if I was dating a transwoman with the expectation we were going to have children and she led me on that that was a possibility. But that would kind of go for anybody who cannot reproduce for whatever reason. But beyond that I don't see why I would care if somebody wants me to treat them like a man or a woman. No biggie.

It feels a lot like patronizing someone.  Marty, brought up religion ( I suspected he would), would you be bothered if you were expected to act as if certain religious beliefs were true even though you don't believe they are?

But we are expected to act as if they might - or at least play along out of respect. From an objective point of view, any religious belief is a crock of shit and delusion, unless you believe in one - if you are not Christian, someone telling you they believe Jesus was born out of virgin, raised dead from graves, walked on water, and came back after dying is no different then someone telling you they believe they have magical elves living in their sock drawer - but yet you are, by and large, expected to respect their feelings and not to deride them the way these people deride Bruce/Catleen Jenner's belief in what her gender is.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2015, 12:00:45 AM
Marty, what exactly is it you do in the gay department?  You don't like dicks and you don't like anal.

Do you hold hands a lot?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 07, 2015, 12:03:15 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2015, 12:00:45 AM
Marty, what exactly is it you do in the gay department?  You don't like dicks and you don't like anal.

Do you hold hands a lot?

That is a rather personal question. :P

And I didn't say I don't do dicks - I just don't mind not doing them.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Razgovory on June 07, 2015, 01:03:22 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2015, 11:50:54 PM


But we are expected to act as if they might - or at least play along out of respect. From an objective point of view, any religious belief is a crock of shit and delusion, unless you believe in one - if you are not Christian, someone telling you they believe Jesus was born out of virgin, raised dead from graves, walked on water, and came back after dying is no different then someone telling you they believe they have magical elves living in their sock drawer - but yet you are, by and large, expected to respect their feelings and not to deride them the way these people deride Bruce/Catleen Jenner's belief in what her gender is.

Then you fall very short of expectations since you have said you don't respect such people and called them "stupid".  Why should someone respect someone's personal fantasy that is clearly and demonstrably not true?  Let me ask you, if you run into a man on the street and say "excuse me, sir" and he screams at you that he's actually a woman what is the correct thought pattern?  That this is a transgender person? That this person is suffering a delusion? That you really need to get glasses?  That you ran into a person wearing a very inept disguise?  That you are a terrible person?  That they are just fucking with you?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 07, 2015, 01:20:59 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 07, 2015, 01:03:22 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2015, 11:50:54 PM


But we are expected to act as if they might - or at least play along out of respect. From an objective point of view, any religious belief is a crock of shit and delusion, unless you believe in one - if you are not Christian, someone telling you they believe Jesus was born out of virgin, raised dead from graves, walked on water, and came back after dying is no different then someone telling you they believe they have magical elves living in their sock drawer - but yet you are, by and large, expected to respect their feelings and not to deride them the way these people deride Bruce/Catleen Jenner's belief in what her gender is.

Then you fall very short of expectations since you have said you don't respect such people and called them "stupid".  Why should someone respect someone's personal fantasy that is clearly and demonstrably not true?  Let me ask you, if you run into a man on the street and say "excuse me, sir" and he screams at you that he's actually a woman what is the correct thought pattern?  That this is a transgender person? That this person is suffering a delusion? That you really need to get glasses?  That you ran into a person wearing a very inept disguise?  That you are a terrible person?  That they are just fucking with you?

Do you encounter such situations offer? Because to me this seems like something very unusual so not sure why we need to have a rule for that.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Razgovory on June 07, 2015, 01:28:03 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2015, 11:46:52 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 06, 2015, 05:24:32 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2015, 06:44:04 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 06, 2015, 01:59:23 AM
I can't help but  be leery of transsexual recognition.  I'm not entirely keen having some someone impose their fantasy world on the rest of us and demand that we accept facts that aren't actually true.

I am going to get so much shit on this. :(

I guess it's the same way we are expected to use the word "Pope" or "rabbi" to describe a bullshit peddler with sexual hang-ups who lives in a fantasy world.

Would you have sex with a woman if she decided to reclassify herself as a man?

Not sure what that has to do with anything - I would not have sex with a lot of men - that does not change the fact that they are men.

But to answer your question: I don't know. I guess it would depend on how they smelled - I don't know enough about gender reassignment procedure and associated hormonal treatment to know if this also changes pheromones and stuff. But if that part was right, I see no reason why not (I'm not much into dicks anyway) - for example the trans guy who is running for Men's Health award (the picture of whom I posted in the past on this forum) looks quite hot, so if he smelled right, I definitely would.

Edit: and for the record, transgendered people do frequently find partners nominally attracted to the gender that they transitioned to - and not all of them are T-chasers. I say let people be who they believe they are as long as they are not hurting anyone else.

It's about honestly.  We can talk about accepting a person for who they identify themselves as, but at a sexual level it just won't work for most people.  A straight man is unlikely to want to have sex with another man even if that man is wearing women's clothing.  At this fundamental and basic level this pretense of acceptance falls apart.  I don't know if it's the same with gay men, but I assume that all things being equal they would prefer to have sex with their preferred gender rather then a person of the physically opposite gender that has decided they are different one.

Pretend we do a test on you.  I show you pictures of naked women, men and transsexuals who have had no operations.  Assuming same general level of attractiveness, no make up and standing in the same positions with no knowledge of the naked individuals beside the photographs I show you, which group (or groups), would you find sexually arousing?  My guess is your choices will be skewed toward the men, and transsexual women which would be physically indistinguishable.  At this basic level you show discrimination.  You can say you are blind to these differences, but when it comes down to it, you aren't.  You have to be cued into by other factors (such as clothing, make up, voice, hairstyle "smell", or whatever).  If you really accepted them as the gender they claim to be but physically are not you would not need these cues.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Razgovory on June 07, 2015, 01:29:14 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 07, 2015, 01:20:59 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 07, 2015, 01:03:22 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 06, 2015, 11:50:54 PM


But we are expected to act as if they might - or at least play along out of respect. From an objective point of view, any religious belief is a crock of shit and delusion, unless you believe in one - if you are not Christian, someone telling you they believe Jesus was born out of virgin, raised dead from graves, walked on water, and came back after dying is no different then someone telling you they believe they have magical elves living in their sock drawer - but yet you are, by and large, expected to respect their feelings and not to deride them the way these people deride Bruce/Catleen Jenner's belief in what her gender is.

Then you fall very short of expectations since you have said you don't respect such people and called them "stupid".  Why should someone respect someone's personal fantasy that is clearly and demonstrably not true?  Let me ask you, if you run into a man on the street and say "excuse me, sir" and he screams at you that he's actually a woman what is the correct thought pattern?  That this is a transgender person? That this person is suffering a delusion? That you really need to get glasses?  That you ran into a person wearing a very inept disguise?  That you are a terrible person?  That they are just fucking with you?

Do you encounter such situations offer? Because to me this seems like something very unusual so not sure why we need to have a rule for that.

Wouldn't want to make a faux pas, now what is the correct thought pattern?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 07, 2015, 01:37:53 AM
Assume he's an ugly woman and say "sorry Ma'am" as you walk away.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Razgovory on June 07, 2015, 01:41:07 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on June 07, 2015, 01:37:53 AM
Assume he's an ugly woman and say "sorry Ma'am" as you walk away.

That's an action not a thought pattern.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 07, 2015, 01:52:47 AM
As Peter Wiggin pointed out, it is not uncommon to take an actual woman for a man either - so behave the same.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Razgovory on June 07, 2015, 01:56:40 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 07, 2015, 01:52:47 AM
As Peter Wiggin pointed out, it is not uncommon to take an actual woman for a man either - so behave the same.

No, not behave what should I think.  Also read my other post about honesty.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on June 07, 2015, 01:57:36 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 07, 2015, 01:52:47 AM
As Peter Wiggin pointed out, it is not uncommon to take an actual woman for a man either - so behave the same.

Some make a career of it. #tildaswinton

(TBF, she looks more androgynous than male)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 07, 2015, 02:02:52 AM
She looks alright when she grows her hair out, like in Michael Clayton.

Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 07, 2015, 02:04:24 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 07, 2015, 01:28:03 AM
It's about honestly.

Whose honesty? The transgendered person's or the beholder of one? I am not sure what you mean.

QuoteWe can talk about accepting a person for who they identify themselves as, but at a sexual level it just won't work for most people.  A straight man is unlikely to want to have sex with another man even if that man is wearing women's clothing.  At this fundamental and basic level this pretense of acceptance falls apart.  I don't know if it's the same with gay men, but I assume that all things being equal they would prefer to have sex with their preferred gender rather then a person of the physically opposite gender that has decided they are different one.

First of all, I think you are using the word "gender" to describe "sex", which is quite confusing. Are you talking about biological (sex) or cultural (gender) expression?

Secondly, are we talking about pre-op transgendered people, post-op transgendered people or transvestites? Your sentence about "a man wearing women's clothing" got me confused.

Thirdly, as I already said, there are actually straight men who are into trans women and they are not gay or even bisexual (and in any case sexuality can be quite fluid and does not often fit neatly into boxes).

Fourthly, I am willing to bet there are women that most straight men would not want to have sex with or be sexually attracted to them (I know there are men about whom I feel that way) - so this is hardly a good argument, especially against accepting transgendered people on a social level.

Fifthly, as far as I understand a person cannot "decide" to be of a gender different from their biological sex any more than he or she can "decide" to be gay or straight - so you are using the same kind of rhetorics of choice that homophobes use against gay people.

QuotePretend we do a test on you.  I show you pictures of naked women, men and transsexuals who have had no operations.  Assuming same general level of attractiveness, no make up and standing in the same positions with no knowledge of the naked individuals beside the photographs I show you, which group (or groups), would you find sexually arousing?  My guess is your choices will be skewed toward the men, and transsexual women which would be physically indistinguishable.  At this basic level you show discrimination.  You can say you are blind to these differences, but when it comes down to it, you aren't.  You have to be cued into by other factors (such as clothing, make up, voice, hairstyle "smell", or whatever).  If you really accepted them as the gender they claim to be but physically are not you would not need these cues.

Again, not sure what the point is - show me a picture of Rush Limbaugh and Angelina Jolie, and I probably pick the latter - especially if that means a threesome with Brad Pitt.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 07, 2015, 02:05:37 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 07, 2015, 01:56:40 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 07, 2015, 01:52:47 AM
As Peter Wiggin pointed out, it is not uncommon to take an actual woman for a man either - so behave the same.

No, not behave what should I think.  Also read my other post about honesty.

You can't control what you think - but civilisation is about behaviour, not thoughts. Such as most people are naturally racist, but it is bad form to show it. The only way to change what one thinks is through exposure.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Razgovory on June 07, 2015, 03:29:37 AM
I don't agree that most people are naturally racist.  So I guess I learned something about you tonight.  To act in one way and think another is dishonest.  Thought and action should be one.  To be dishonest is generally regarded as bad.

Now, I didn't get a degree in gender studies so maybe I'm not up to the tortured terminology or the counterintutive theories on the cultural gender and sex.  I'm sorry I confused you.  Presume for a moment you talking to someone who doesn't read a lot of Pink News and I'll try and check my privileged.


My thought experiment was to demonstrate the innate dishonesty involved here.  While you can try to make yourself believe something about someone gender or sex or whatever, your libido is not fooled.  I would suggest that this your true feeling, and your brain is trying to tell your dick something that it knows is not actually true for whatever reason.

But I'll tell you what.  We can both try and be more civilized persons.  I will accept what ever the fuck you want me to do so on this topic if, you do the civilized thing and every time religion comes up on this board you state how lovely it is and how much you respect their faith.  And I mean Every time.  Together we can both become more civilized.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 07, 2015, 09:54:51 AM
The difference is that, of course, transgendered people do not try to tell other people how to live their lives - whereas religious people do. I have a lot of respect, actually, for mystics and others in touch with their divine - I don't tolerate those having the audacity to tell me that *their* idea of the divine (with whom, more often than not, they have very little actual connection whatsoever) somehow has authority to say how *I* should live my life.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: LaCroix on June 07, 2015, 01:39:56 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 07, 2015, 09:54:51 AM
The difference is that, of course, transgendered people do not try to tell other people how to live their lives

to be fair, many extremist transgenders do try to tell people how to live their lives. the glitter bombing stuff and other "political activism" is pretty insane. whether it's religion, transgenderism, veganism, etc., some people who wrap their identities around a belief/aspect of their life engage in complete asshole activities that ruin things for the rest.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on June 07, 2015, 01:50:07 PM
There aren't even that many transgendered people to speak of, so I think you are pushing it when you talk about this sub-segment that is so pushy and terrible.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 07, 2015, 02:19:25 PM
Quote from: LaCroix on June 07, 2015, 01:39:56 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 07, 2015, 09:54:51 AM
The difference is that, of course, transgendered people do not try to tell other people how to live their lives

to be fair, many extremist transgenders do try to tell people how to live their lives. the glitter bombing stuff and other "political activism" is pretty insane. whether it's religion, transgenderism, veganism, etc., some people who wrap their identities around a belief/aspect of their life engage in complete asshole activities that ruin things for the rest.

I don't think this is really comparable, as what I am talking about goes beyond just being shrill, obnoxious and oversensitive.

For transgendered people I am not sure a direct parallel can even be possible as I can't imagine what kind of laws transgendered community could push for that would put it on par with the religious pushing for laws banning abortion or same sex marriage for people who are not members of their particular religion (I guess a certain parallel can be drawn between hate speech laws and blasphemy laws - for the record, I am opposed to both - but that's it).

For vegans, I guess until they try to push for laws banning eating meat, there are not at the same level as the religious either.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 07, 2015, 03:13:17 PM
The most out there demand I've heard from trannies is some want other people to pick up the tab.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Razgovory on June 07, 2015, 05:54:43 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 07, 2015, 09:54:51 AM
The difference is that, of course, transgendered people do not try to tell other people how to live their lives - whereas religious people do. I have a lot of respect, actually, for mystics and others in touch with their divine - I don't tolerate those having the audacity to tell me that *their* idea of the divine (with whom, more often than not, they have very little actual connection whatsoever) somehow has authority to say how *I* should live my life.

And here we are talking about the the correct behavior and thought pattern.  I guess you can't act civilized. :(
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 08, 2015, 01:10:33 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 07, 2015, 05:54:43 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 07, 2015, 09:54:51 AM
The difference is that, of course, transgendered people do not try to tell other people how to live their lives - whereas religious people do. I have a lot of respect, actually, for mystics and others in touch with their divine - I don't tolerate those having the audacity to tell me that *their* idea of the divine (with whom, more often than not, they have very little actual connection whatsoever) somehow has authority to say how *I* should live my life.

And here we are talking about the the correct behavior and thought pattern.  I guess you can't act civilized. :(

:huh:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on June 11, 2015, 01:18:10 PM
QuoteWhat gay couples get about relationships that straight couples often don't

When it comes to dividing the labor at home fairly, straight couples may have a lot to learn from gay couples.

A new study finds that same-sex couples tend to communicate better, share chore duties more fairly and assign tasks based on personal preference -- rather than gender, income, hours worked or power position in the relationship.

Straight couples, meanwhile, tend to talk less and fall into to traditional gender roles, what one family describes as "pink chores" and "blue chores."

In dual-income straight couples, women and those who earn less money or work fewer hours tend to take primary responsibility for stereotypically female -- and more labor-intensive -- chores such as child care, grocery shopping, washing dishes, cooking and laundry, according to a survey of 225 gay and straight dual-income couples being released Thursday by PriceWaterHouseCoopers and the Families and Work Institute.

The survey, while a relatively small sample, has interesting findings.

Men, higher earners and those who work longer hours – which researchers say can signify a position of power -- in straight couples tend to do the yard work and outdoor, auto and more traditionally male chores that tend to be less time-consuming.

Yet in same-sex couples, income and work hours didn't have the same affect. And, perhaps most important, same-sex couples were much more likely to share equally the time-consuming work of routine child care – 74 percent of gay couples versus 38 percent of straight couples. And gay couples were more likely to equally share the unpredictable work of caring for a sick child – 62 percent versus 32 percent for straight couples.

Why is that important? In straight couples, women are still often considered the primary, or default, parent, responsible not only for organizing, overseeing and caring for children but for also doing many of household chores. Time diary data shows that women, even when they work full-time, tend to spend about twice as much time doing housework and caring for children.

"There's been a lot of calls for more sharing of child care responsibilities, so it isn't only a woman's problem and she isn't the only one dealing with the fallout at work. But we see more sharing in same-sex couples," said Ken Matos, FWI senior director of research and author of the study. "Taking on primary child care responsibility impacts one's work time. It creates so many unscheduled interruptions, so that's an important thing to be shared."

The survey also found that men in same-sex relationships were more satisfied with the division of labor than were women in straight relationships. The reason? Same-sex couples talked about it more.

Men in gay partnerships were much more likely to say they had discussed how to divide the labor when they first moved in together. Women in straight partnerships were much more likely to say they wanted to, but didn't.

"The people who said they bit their tongue had a lower satisfaction with division of household responsibilities," Matos said. "So satisfaction may not be so much about what you do, but whether or not you felt you had a voice. Did you say what you wanted? Or did you let it evolve and feel like you couldn't pull yourself out of the situation once it settled and got stuck?"

In the survey, 20 percent of women in straight couples said they hadn't spoken up about how to divide the labor fairly, but wish they had. In same-sex couples, 15 percent of the women had.

"Perhaps because they can't default to gender, people in same-sex couples are in more of a position to have these conversations," Matos said. "That's probably the biggest takeaway of the survey: how important it is to talk and say what you want, rather than stay silent, not wanting to start a fight, making assumptions, and then letting things fester."

Writer and lecturer Andrew Solomon said he and his husband are constantly talking about how to make all the pieces of their lives fit together. "I feel like we're constantly inventing it," he said. "We talk about it all the time. It's a constantly evolving process."

Solomon is the primary breadwinner and his spouse has taken on the bulk of caring for their six-year-old son. Everything else, Solomon said, they've divided chores based on what they're good at. Solomon is organized, so he arranges school and summer camp activities. His husband cooks. They share school drop off and they shift duties as the demands of their schedules change.

"People often make assumptions: We get asked, since I'm the one who works more, am I more the 'Dad,' and is John really the 'Mom?'I feel like we have a paucity of vocabulary to describe these roles," Solomon said. "If there's one thing same sex parents could teach is that it's not that one of us is 'really' the mom and one is 'really the Dad. Those are irrelevant concepts. We're just both in this together."

This seems to reflect my observations as well. There is much more negotiation going on in gay relationships, I think, as you do not have any "templates" to use.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/06/04/what-gay-couples-get-about-relationships-that-straight-couples-often-dont/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_1_na
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 11, 2015, 01:25:21 PM
Wait couples with two different gender have more gender issues than a coupe with two identical genders?

This is not a problem in our home because we are both lefty types when it comes to social roles like this. But not everybody feels like this is a priority. Some people really feel these gender roles are important and I am not about demanding everybody meet my standards.

But hey what do I know? I don't have a gay relationship I have had to compare my straight ones to.

QuoteSolomon is the primary breadwinner and his spouse has taken on the bulk of caring for their six-year-old son. Everything else, Solomon said, they've divided chores based on what they're good at. Solomon is organized, so he arranges school and summer camp activities. His husband cooks. They share school drop off and they shift duties as the demands of their schedules change.

That sounds like all my straight friend's relationships. People do what they are good at. But then we are all suburban Austinites so do not have big cultural pressures to do differently.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on June 11, 2015, 01:29:33 PM
I don't follow:

QuoteIn dual-income straight couples, women and those who earn less money or work fewer hours tend to take primary responsibility for stereotypically female -- and more labor-intensive -- chores such as child care, grocery shopping, washing dishes, cooking and laundry, according to a survey of 225 gay and straight dual-income couples being released Thursday by PriceWaterHouseCoopers and the Families and Work Institute.

How is it surprising, unfair or a negative that those who "work fewer hours" tend to do more "labor intensive" chores around the house? Isn't that exactly what you'd expect - if someone is working a harsh 12 hour shift and the other person isn't, that the person who isn't will do more of the labourious chores at home?

Throwing that little criterion into the mix tends to invalidate the whole thesis.  :huh:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 11, 2015, 01:31:07 PM
Yeah isn't that exactly what any couple with common sense would do? :hmm: In their example the gay couple shifts chores around to suit the work schedule.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on October 19, 2015, 11:29:55 AM
I read this article today, pretty interesting

http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/in-china-gay-marriage-is-between-a-man-and-a-woman

QuoteIn China there's been a surge in xinghun, variously translated as "cooperative marriage" or "marriage-for-show"—that is, weddings between gay men and lesbian women. A young gay man in Beijing says that right now probably 50 percent of gays choose xinghun in order to assimilate into China's conservative, family-oriented society.
When gay men marry lesbian women, things can get complicated. Recent stories in the press have featured two lesbian couples living together, with four gay husbands off on the side. Or married gay couples (as in—a man and woman who are both gay) who have recently had a child but are still living with their respective partners, and trying to figure out what to tell their son as he gets older. To an outsider, it may seem like the distorted Chinese version of the 2011 film Friends with Kids, where two platonic friends try to start a family.
Maintaining a "cooperative marriage" to the satisfaction of two sets of prying parents with traditional expectations is highly complex. Nonetheless, thousands of gay men and women are tying the knot. Chinagayles.com, the earliest and most active website for gay men and women to find stand-in spouses, currently has over 380,000 users and claims to have matched nearly 20,000 couples since it started in 2005. But matching up with someone is just the first step—from there, it can take years to establish expectations, discuss financial responsibilities, and figure out the logistics of how the marriage is going to work.
Hm, not quite there yet.
Not quite there yet. (Photo: Fobos92/Wikimedia Commons CC BY-SA 3.0)
How does it work? It's advised that one approach a "cooperative marriage" like a business deal. Generally, xinghun couples, who tend to be wealthier, will arrange some form of pretend cohabitation. This means a place where they "live together" and can bring their parents to visit. Sometimes this is one of their apartments, and sometimes, if they can afford it, it's an empty flat exclusively for parent-pleasing occasions, carefully strewn with items suggesting the couple is happily shacked up.
Some members of these "marriages-for-show" have long-term partners on the side, while others date casually or not at all. Either way, there's the unavoidable baby question (the reason their parents wanted a marriage in the first place), and that can get tricky. Those who don't want to raise a child with a fake spouse will sometimes pay for sham certificates declaring the wife infertile, which they'll then show to their parents.
While xinghun is hardly ideal, it's an improvement from what's already been going on for centuries—gay men wedding heterosexual women and vice versa. According to research from Qingdao University, 80 percent of the estimated 20 million gay men in China are in fake marriages, meaning that 16 million Chinese women are currently married to gay men. Unlike the users of the xinghun website, the majority of these partners were not informed beforehand.

The Chinese character for happiness and couple, often used as a wedding decoration. Happy couple, indeed. (Photo: sharptoyou/shutterstock.com)
Until 1997, homosexuality was a crime in China, and until 2001 it was still classified as a mental illness. Yet today's pressures to be "normal"—having a traditional family and continuing the bloodline—come less from the government and more from the family. In China, you can only obtain a permit to have a child if you're married, and a child born out of wedlock isn't allowed basic identification information (hukou). This has led to a phenomenon known as "sexless marriages," which is an option for Chinese who want to start a family but don't want a romantic relationship. There are separate websites catering to the hundreds of thousands of Chinese seeking this kind of baby-enabling nuptial.
Childless Chinese are left with wracking guilt: Mencius, an ancient Chinese philosopher, said that failing to produce offspring is the worst form of disloyalty towards one's parents. Add in the One Child Policy, and you have gays feeling that their lifestyle is "selfish" because their parents have no other options for grandchildren.
Yet the one-child conundrum can be flipped the other way, too. Tian Tian, a 30 year-old woman working in Beijing, says that since most young adults are the only child, if they come out, their parents have to accept it—otherwise they lose their sole child in addition to a prospective grandkid. She adds that thanks to the internet, people her grandfather's age now "know what's free love." Tian Tian, who is recently married, says it's more accepted for men to come out than women. "Gay okay, les[bian] no."

Which nice woman wants one of these fine eligible men? (Photo: kris krüg/flickr)
That, of course, is in Beijing, which is more progressive than most of the rest of China. According to a 2013 Pew study, just 21 percent of Chinese believe that society should accept homosexuality. There are social media polls that suggest otherwise, but don't be fooled. Even among students, there remains a strong anti-gay bias.
There are more and more signs of hope, like a marriage proposal between two men on the Beijing subway that recently went viral; however, change is painfully slow. Since China's legal system is seemingly designed to baffle, no one knows how gay marriage would be legally recognized even if it had the right support. It's a practical matter as well as a human rights one: Some 30 million more men than women will enter China's marriage market by 2020. Gay men in particular should be marrying each other, instead of marrying members of the decreasing population of heterosexual women. China will shortly need to reconsider its stance.
Sadly, in the meantime, more and more gay men will continue seeking lesbian spouses, and together they will have to navigate the parent-pleasing, logistical nightmare that is "cooperative marriage."
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: DGuller on November 12, 2015, 07:52:31 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/11/12/utah-judge-removes-foster-child-from-lesbian-couple-saying-shell-be-better-off-with-heterosexuals/

Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 12, 2015, 09:31:16 PM
Ah, Jaron's people.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on November 13, 2015, 03:10:27 PM
When I first saw this article on my Facebook feed, I thought it was from the Onion. Can anyone explain what's a "LGBT safe space" at Starbucks?

http://www.towleroad.com/2015/11/starbucks-safe-spaces/

:huh:

It sounds like some SJW shit to me.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on November 13, 2015, 03:14:55 PM
Yeah announcing that they want to help victims of hate crimes sounds terrible.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: DGuller on November 13, 2015, 03:22:13 PM
It's not a place at Starbucks, it is the Starbucks that is LGBT safe place. 
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on November 13, 2015, 03:53:03 PM
Quote from: DGuller on November 13, 2015, 03:22:13 PM
It's not a place at Starbucks, it is the Starbucks that is LGBT safe place.

But what exactly does this entail? :unsure:

Are all the other Starbucks unsafe for LGBT people?  :hmm:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 13, 2015, 03:54:49 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 13, 2015, 03:53:03 PM
But what exactly does this entail? :unsure:

It entails a marketing campaign and instructions to staff on when they should call the police and when they give an upset homosexual a free cup of chai.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on November 13, 2015, 03:55:32 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on November 13, 2015, 03:54:49 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 13, 2015, 03:53:03 PM
But what exactly does this entail? :unsure:

It entails a marketing campaign and instructions to staff on when they should call the police and when they give an upset homosexual a free cup of chai.

So I was right for calling it bullshit?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on November 13, 2015, 04:03:39 PM
Quote from: Martinus on November 13, 2015, 03:55:32 PM
So I was right for calling it bullshit?

I wouldn't call it bullshit.  It's a signalling strategy, in the same way that a Polish resort might sell itself as gay-friendly.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Tonitrus on November 13, 2015, 04:11:37 PM
Sounds like a harmless attempt to be a bit more socially responsible than normal (teh horror!).

Perhaps akin to having employees somewhat better trained to, say, if Starbucks wanted to promote some of their locations as a "safe space" for battered/abused spouses to take refuge.

Even if "bullshit"...seems pretty much completely harmless at worst.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Jaron on November 15, 2015, 01:12:35 PM
Quote from: DGuller on November 12, 2015, 07:52:31 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/11/12/utah-judge-removes-foster-child-from-lesbian-couple-saying-shell-be-better-off-with-heterosexuals/

There was quite a backlash here about it. The judge reversed the decision, at least temporarily.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on November 15, 2015, 03:54:31 PM
Quote from: Tonitrus on November 13, 2015, 04:11:37 PM
Sounds like a harmless attempt to be a bit more socially responsible than normal (teh horror!).

Perhaps akin to having employees somewhat better trained to, say, if Starbucks wanted to promote some of their locations as a "safe space" for battered/abused spouses to take refuge.

Even if "bullshit"...seems pretty much completely harmless at worst.

:yes:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on December 10, 2015, 12:23:35 AM
So ..... christiano ronaldo.
Gay?
Or is it normal to buy a private plane so you can fly over to morocco several times a week to hang with a buff kick boxer?

Now that this story is out there.... yes. I can really see an argument for him being gay. Just look at him.
Would be wonderful if he did come out. Really positive move for football and respect for gay people globally in general. 
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on December 21, 2015, 03:57:31 AM
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35147257

QuoteSlovenia rejects gay marriage in referendum

Slovenians have rejected same-sex marriage by a large margin in a referendum.

Almost two-thirds of voters said no to a bill that defined marriage as a union between two consenting adults.

Parliament passed a law giving marriage equality in March, but opponents challenged it before any gay couples could marry.

Conservatives were especially opposed to allowing same-sex couples to adopt children.

"This result presents a victory for our children," said Ales Primc from the group Children Are At Stake. :rolleyes:

The result demonstrates a cultural split in the EU, where western member states are granting greater rights to gay people but newer central and eastern member states are resisting such moves.

Slovenia's conservatives were backed by Pope Francis, who called on the mainly Catholic country to "back the family as the structural reference point for the life of society".

But MPs from the United Left party, which initially proposed the change in the law, said the result was a temporary setback.

"It's not over yet. Sooner or later the law will be accepted," said United Left MP Violeta Tomic.

Slovenia is considered to be among the more liberal former communist countries but gay rights remain a contentious issue there.

In 2012, voters rejected granting more rights to gay couples in a referendum.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on December 21, 2015, 04:22:46 AM
A great victory for plural marriage!
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: celedhring on March 24, 2016, 04:11:29 AM
Disney speaks out against Georgia's "religious tolerance" bill.

http://www.glaad.org/blog/disney-speaks-out-against-georgias-license-discriminate-bill

Am I correct in assuming all those "religious beliefs" laws that are popping up in some states are dog whistle politics for antigay crap?

Good on Disney if they indeed pull out of the state, by the way. Georgia pours a lot of money in tax breaks for the studios to go there.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Monoriu on March 24, 2016, 04:38:00 AM
QuoteIf Governor Deal signs this bill, it means that any taxpayer-funded faith-based organizations can deny services or employment to anyone who does not share its religious beliefs. An organization could take taxpayer money to perform public services and then deny those services - as well as employment - to a taxpayer if that person doesn't share the organization's religious beliefs.

I don't understand.  So the state provides public subsidies to an organisation to perform a service, say a school.  The school will then be able to say it doesn't admit gay students on religious grounds?  This doesn't seem right to me, and I have no idea how this can pass judicial review or whatever it is called in the US.  If a school receives public funding, the state should compel it to avoid disciminating on sexual orientation grounds.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: celedhring on March 24, 2016, 04:42:40 AM
IIRC the way the US lawmaking system works, a law can't be found to be unconstitutional before it is passed (in Spain it can be challenged beforehand, for example, and the parliamentary process includes a report analyzing whether the law might be unconstitutional). So they can pass all the ridiculous stuff they want until the SCOTUS makes a pass at it. (American lawyers correct me if I'm wrong here).

Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on March 24, 2016, 06:09:26 AM
The reports on this bill are extremely unclear - every news source I read reports it slightly differently. In particular it is unclear to me if the right is limited to "religious organisations" only or to anyone acting on their religious beliefs. If the former, then the question is how you define a religious organisation.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on March 24, 2016, 06:14:08 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on March 24, 2016, 04:38:00 AM
QuoteIf Governor Deal signs this bill, it means that any taxpayer-funded faith-based organizations can deny services or employment to anyone who does not share its religious beliefs. An organization could take taxpayer money to perform public services and then deny those services - as well as employment - to a taxpayer if that person doesn't share the organization's religious beliefs.

I don't understand.  So the state provides public subsidies to an organisation to perform a service, say a school.  The school will then be able to say it doesn't admit gay students on religious grounds?  This doesn't seem right to me, and I have no idea how this can pass judicial review or whatever it is called in the US.  If a school receives public funding, the state should compel it to avoid disciminating on sexual orientation grounds.

Well, it's a bit of a tricky area. Let's say you have a church - does it mean you cannot fire a priest who comes out as gay?

Or let's say you run a religious school where you preach abstinence - can you say you will kick out any student who is caught having pre-marital sex?

I guess the test should be the availability of an alternative service. I, for one, would not want to attend a school that hated gays even if they could not legally act on their hatred, as long as there was a non-idiotic alternative available.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on March 24, 2016, 06:17:30 AM
And if the likes of Disney or Google wanted to help and be real allies, they would better serve the L(G?)BT community by funding or sponsoring tolerant, open-minded schools or businesses in Georgia rather than threaten a boycott.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on March 24, 2016, 06:20:34 AM
Incidentally, I wonder if under Georgia law I could start a Discordian/Erisian business and threaten to fire anyone who refuses to partake of the celebratory pork hot dog sausage on the Holy Day of Friday.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on March 24, 2016, 06:41:03 AM
Quote from: Martinus on March 24, 2016, 06:09:26 AM
The reports on this bill are extremely unclear - every news source I read reports it slightly differently. In particular it is unclear to me if the right is limited to "religious organisations" only or to anyone acting on their religious beliefs. If the former, then the question is how you define a religious organisation.

That's because there wasn't just one version. At one point, it was more open in general and the revised version kept it to religious orgs.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Martinus on March 25, 2016, 09:24:05 AM
The bottom line is this is ultimately a question on what public money should be spent (in this case, financial support for religious organisations that discriminate against gay people etc.). While I don't think this is a good way to spend public money, people have different views on this (for example, some people think public money should not be spent on organisations that perform abortions).

The people of Georgia have apparently voted and elected representatives who think public money should be spent on the former rather than the latter - I may disagree, but isn't this how democracy is supposed to work*?

If you want to change it, campaign to change this through a democratic process, by electing representatives who share your views - I have to say, though, I am much more uncomfortable with unelected and unaccountable corporations strong-arming democratic governments to abandon policies they dislike - than with homophobic Georgians.

*The only exceptions to this are of course when the law adopted by a democratic process is unconstitutional etc. - but that's for the courts to decide.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Larch on March 25, 2016, 09:53:36 AM
QuoteNBA ISSUES WARNING TO NC AFTER PASSAGE OF ANTI-LGBT LAW

Apparently they're considering moving the All Star away from Charlotte, where it is scheduled to be hosted next year. The NCAA seems to be in the same boat regarding their basketball tournaments for 2017 and 2018, and have done the same in the past in Indiana, which got that state's law to be repealed afterwards.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on March 25, 2016, 11:31:20 AM
Georgians are pretty old-fashioned.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: 11B4V on June 29, 2016, 10:14:02 PM

Quote

North Carolina Considering Gender ID Card





http://modernliberals.com/north-carolina-wants-add-gender-id-transgender-tax/
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2016, 11:32:35 PM
lol, what are you doing reading "Modern Liberal"?   :lol:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FAfojMws.gif&hash=585e9dcbb9c67c4a607f3c8a9591fd32a3a98b9a)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: 11B4V on June 30, 2016, 12:15:10 AM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 29, 2016, 11:32:35 PM
lol, what are you doing reading "Modern Liberal"?   :lol:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FAfojMws.gif&hash=585e9dcbb9c67c4a607f3c8a9591fd32a3a98b9a)

Popped on facebook
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on June 30, 2016, 01:19:30 AM
I think we should probably shy away from posting pieces from that site. NC isn't think of instituting a gender id card.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on July 14, 2016, 09:31:39 AM
In Canada, Anglicans vote on whether to institute same-sex marriage.

First, the vote goes against it - by one vote.

Then, there was a recount, and the vote is actually for it - again, by a single vote.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/07/12/some-canadian-anglican-bishops-to-approve-same-sex-marriage-despite-church-ruling.html#

It was, literally, a clerical error.  :D
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on July 14, 2016, 09:34:06 AM
Quote from: Malthus on July 14, 2016, 09:31:39 AM
It was, literally, a clerical error.  :D

:lmfao: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on October 11, 2016, 02:18:01 AM
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/11/asia/australia-gay-marriage-plebiscite-delayed/index.html

QuoteGay marriage in Australia unlikely for years after public vote plan rejected

(CNN)Australia's parliament is almost certain to vote down a national referendum on same-sex marriage, potentially delaying marriage equality in the country for years.

Though it backs same-sex marriage, the left-wing opposition Labor party formally announced Tuesday it would not support the government's planned national vote.
They say a public vote is unnecessary, too costly and would trigger a divisive public debate which could traumatize young gay and lesbian Australians.

Instead, Labor, and other opposition parties, want same-sex marriage to be passed by Parliament immediately -- something which government conservatives are dead set against.

All of this leaves Australia's gay community hanging. Without Labor's support, the government won't have enough votes in the Australian senate to approve the national vote.
The government wanted to hold the national plebiscite, similar to a referendum, next February, at a cost of about US$120 million.

Same-sex unions off for years?

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has said if the plebiscite isn't held, marriage equality could be off the agenda until 2019, which is when the next general elections will be held.

However, one of Australia's most prominent gay politicians supports rejecting the plebiscite and is prepared to wait for gay marriage in Australia.

"No other human rights issue is put to a national vote in Australia," Andrew Barr, Australian Capital Territory Chief Minister, told CNN.

"In Australia we can declare war, we can send our troops overseas into battle without even consulting our parliament ... and yet for something as straightforward as including everyone in marriage, our current government believes there needs to be a vote of every Australian," the Labor politician said.

Numerous Western countries, including New Zealand, Canada, the United Kingdom and the United States, have legalized same-sex marriage in recent years.

Both party leaders, most Australians, support gay marriage

A majority of Australians support same-sex marriage, according to recent Essential opinion polls.

So do, both major party leaders in Australia -- Labor leader Bill Shorten and Malcolm Turnbull, who is the first Australian Prime Minister to support gay marriage while in power.

So why has it become such a big issue?

Conservatives in Turnbull's party want him to keep the plebiscite which was originally devised by former Prime Minister Tony Abbott in 2015, rather than passing same-sex marriage in a Parliamentary vote.

They believe the public should have a say on such a big social issue.

John Warhurst , a professor at Australian National University's School of Politics, says conservatives believe a public vote is their best hope to defeat -- or at least stall -- gay marriage in the country.

"(In 2015) it looked as though the supporters of same-sex marriage almost had a majority in the Parliament, so you can only be skeptical (the plebiscite) was a method to stall the process and try to ensure same-sex marriage was defeated in Australia," Australian National University School of Politics professor John Warhurst told CNN.

'Time for rising above party politics'

Lyle Shelton, the managing director of the Australian Christian Lobby, told CNN he was "disappointed" the plebiscite was likely to be voted down.

"The Australian Labor Party, the Greens and some of the crossbenchers have worked as political elites to deny the people a say on what is the biggest and most radical social change in a generation," he said, adding he thought the issue would now be gridlocked for years.

High-profile celebrities like singer Kylie Minogue and Margot Robbie are campaigning in favor of gay marriage. Minogue and her fiance won't walk down the aisle until Australia legislates for marriage equality.

Australian Marriage Equality director Tiernan Brady said the rejection of the plebiscite was the will of the majority of gay and lesbian Australians.

"(But) for the first time in Australia we have a marriage equality bill from a government, so that's good news ... This is a time for rising above party politics," he told CNN.

Same-sex marriage has been illegal in Australia since 2004, when former conservative Prime Minister John Howard changed Australia's Marriage Act to allow only heterosexual couples to marry.

CNN's graphic shows 58% of Australians in favor of same sex marriage, with 28% opposed.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on October 11, 2016, 02:35:00 AM
So not having gay marriage is less traumatizing?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on October 11, 2016, 02:38:53 AM
It's a bit of a weird situation where everyone is in favor of legalizing it, except for a number of conservative MPs who seem hellbent on fighting it.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Solmyr on March 01, 2017, 08:40:35 AM
Gay marriage laws came in force in Finland today. They were approved by the Parliament and signed by the President already a couple of years ago, but today they are officially in force. There was a last-ditch effort by some conservative fucks to overturn them in Parliament, but it failed. Funnily enough, the current Parliament, which is *more* conservative than the one that approved the laws two years ago, had more votes in favor of keeping the laws. Nearly all the opposition to gay marriage came from the Christian Democrat Party (religious conservative) and the True Finns Party (nationalist/populist). Even in the latter, three MPs went against the party line and voted in favor of gay marriage.

:yeah:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on March 01, 2017, 03:05:24 PM
Is it optional?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on March 30, 2017, 04:29:23 AM
http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/326446-north-carolina-leaders-reach-deal-to-repeal-transgender-bathroom-law

QuoteNorth Carolina leaders reach deal to repeal transgender bathroom law
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: MadImmortalMan on March 30, 2017, 07:36:05 PM
I thought Marty had been unbanned. Then I saw his post above was from March 2016.  :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on June 01, 2017, 04:20:20 AM
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/31/asia/indonesia-lgbt-rights/index.html

Quote'Never seen anything like this': Inside Indonesia's LGBT crackdown

(CNN)In less than 18 months, being gay in Indonesia has gone from widely tolerated to just plain dangerous.

An unprecedented wave of police raids, vigilante attacks, and calls for the criminalization of homosexual sex have left many in the country's LGBT community fearing for their safety.

"(Gay Indonesians) are exhausted and they're horrified," Kyle Knight, a Human Rights Watch researcher with the LGBT rights program, told CNN.

"Even the activists I know who started the very first organizations in the 1980s say they've never seen anything like this."

It's a dark turn for a country that for decades prided itself on its diverse, heterogeneous society.

The world's largest Muslim democracy, Indonesia is often considered something of a bulwark of tolerance amid growing conservatism elsewhere in the Islamic world.

But that perception is now shifting, amid increasing verbal attacks on minority groups and the growing implementation of Islamic bylaws by regional governments.

In less than two weeks, two young men were seized by vigilantes who burst into their home in Aceh province, then taken to authorities who caned them for having homosexual sex.

In a separate incident, later in the month, attendees at an alleged gay party in a Jakarta sauna were arrested and images of their faces were disseminated online by Indonesian police.

Homosexual sex is not illegal in the majority of Indonesia, except in the extremely conservative province of Aceh. Jakarta is not part of any province; it is controlled by the central government.


One week ago, West Java Police Chief Anton Charliyan announced that he would create a special taskforce to crack down on LGBT people.

"They will face the law and heavy social sanctions. They will not be accepted by society," he said.

It wasn't always this way.

Despite being a Muslim-majority country, only small parts of Indonesia — such as Aceh province — follow strict Islamic law.

Same-sex relations have never been illegal either, even if a 2013 Pew survey found that 93% of the country refused to accept homosexuality.

Jonta Saragih a former LGBT activist from Sumatra, now studying in the UK, said while his family weren't quick to accept him when he came out, Indonesians used to have a live and let live attitude to their country's LGBT population.

"[Even] a few years ago, when I was in Jakarta, though homosexuality was not recognized by the law, there was no one talking about it," he told CNN.

Indonesian human rights activist Tunggal Pawestri corroborates this notion that homosexuality was previously frowned upon but tolerated.

"Since my childhood I was told that LGBT people are sinful, being a homosexual is sinful but of course ... it doesn't mean you have to criminalize them," she said.

So what changed?

The problems began in early 2016, when a number of high-profile Indonesian politicians, including several government ministers, suddenly started to make unprompted attacks on Indonesia's LGBT community.

Among them was the Defense Minister, Ryamizard Ryacudu, who said Indonesia's LGBT movement was more dangerous than "a nuclear war."

"In a nuclear war, if a bomb is dropped over Jakarta, Semarang will not be affected -- but (with LGBT rights) everything we know could disappear in an instant -- it's dangerous," he said, according to the state Antara news agency.

Soon, the country's medical professionals joined in. The Indonesian Psychiatrists Association issued a statement in February saying people who were gay or bisexual had "psychiatric problems."

By August, a group of conservative activists had taken a case to the Constitutional Court to call for homosexual sex to be made illegal in Indonesia.

Knight said it's hard to tell why the sudden wave of anti-LGBT feeling swelled up across the country, but where it was heading appeared much clearer.

"This is fueled not just by bigotry and misunderstanding but by public officials ... I think that's the really scary thing as we go forward. It's fair game to go after LGBT people in Indonesia," he said.

More than a dozen gay dating apps, including Grindr, were banned in Indonesia in late 2016, Jonta said, making it harder for gay men and women to communicate with each other.

"(I have) some good friends ... we started discussing these issues on social media, eventually some of them deleted me on Facebook. They said we are not friends anymore," Jonta said.

Conservative Islam is a growing political force in Indonesia. The arrest and later conviction of former Jakarta governor Basuki 'Ahok' Tjahaja Purnama in April this year, on charges of blasphemy, followed huge protests instigated by conservative groups.

Pawestri blamed vocally conservative politicians and an "irresponsible" media for the rise in anti-LGBT rhetoric.

"Before LGBT Indonesians had quite a lot of confidence, now they're very careful and cry to me, calling me at night. We've been trying to do whatever we can to avoid (criminalization)," Pawestri said.

Criminalization might be closer than most would expect.

Since August, a team of lawyers has been arguing in Indonesia's Constitutional Court, on behalf of 12 individuals, to change the criminal code.

Prosecution legal team spokesman, Feizal Syahmenan, told CNN they would like three articles changed in the criminal code -- one to outlaw sex outside of marriage, one to outlaw homosexual rape and one to outlaw homosexual sex entirely.

Two of those 12 individuals are members of the AILA, the Family Love Alliance, a prominent conservative Islamic group.

Syahmenan told CNN homosexuality is just not Indonesian.

"All of these three (laws) are totally wrong and against Indonesian norms and values," he said. "We're not trying to push for implementation of Sharia (Islamic) law."

If the Constitutional Court finds in favor of criminalization, it would still need to be passed by Indonesia's Parliament before it would take effect, but Knight said it would put huge public pressure on the country's politicians to follow through.

"There are some dark storm clouds on the horizon. If you read the transcripts on the hearings that have taken place since last August, you don't see (judges) pushback from the bench (on witnesses) ... they ask more questions, 'tell us more about the evils of homosexuality'," he said.

"It's ominous, it's very, very threatening."

Hearings concluded in February, with a verdict expected after June, according to Syahmenan.

One politician who has been mostly silent amid the ongoing discrimination against LGBT citizens in Indonesia has been Indonesian President Joko "Jokowi" Widodo.

When he was elected in 2014, there was a huge sense of optimism around Widodo who was considered a "progressive force" for the nation.

But amid the nationwide crackdown on LGBT people, the president has only spoken out once in their defense.

"There should be no discrimination against anyone," Widodo told the BBC in October 2016, adding "the police must act" against any attempts to harm LGBT people.

But he then added that in Indonesia, "beliefs (generally) do not allow (LGBT), Islam does not allow it."

Human rights activist Pawestri said many gay Indonesians have been disappointed by Widodo's lackluster defense of their rights. "LGBT people realize that his silence means no protection from the government, and this is totally unjust," she said.

Even if Widodo wanted to help, Knight said it could cost him huge political capital, something he might be reluctant to spend ahead of his 2019 reelection campaign.

"(They) could really do a lot of good by coming out and issuing a statement of support ... They're taking a very cowardly and silent stance, letting it go forward ... Until someone puts a lid on this, it's going to keep unraveling," he said.

Knight said nothing will change until those in authority stand up for the rights of gay citizens across Indonesia.

"We need some leadership here ... Is there any chance [the crackdown] is going to stop? Of course, but it's going to take a constitutional court actually upholding the constitution, it's going to take members of the cabinet stepping out and saying, 'no this is not how we behave,' it's going to take the President," he said.

Syahmenan said the battle over the gay Indonesians' rights was about reaffirming "Indonesian norms and values," adding legal same-sex relations were a relic of colonial rule.

He said gay and lesbian people are a danger to the future of Indonesia. "Look at the children, they like to imitate or copy what the adults do. If they see free sex practices or LGBT, they may think that the practices are something fun and cool," he said
.

Despite the current situation, Jonta still believes the future could be bright for Indonesia's LGBT citizens.

"I have this willingness to continue to fight for a better Indonesia. To fight for inclusiveness. Of course it will be more difficult for us to continue the work of human rights," he said.

"We are getting oppressed, even our social media and our websites ... but I would say I'm still optimistic."
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on June 01, 2017, 09:54:04 AM
I miss Mart. :(
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on June 01, 2017, 09:55:51 AM
Quote from: Caliga on June 01, 2017, 09:54:04 AM
I miss Mart. :(

That's just the Stockholm syndrome talking.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 01, 2017, 04:18:51 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 01, 2017, 09:54:04 AM
I miss Mart. :(

Same.  :huh:

And Bmo, who would probably have a better take on this story.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Caliga on June 01, 2017, 04:22:28 PM
Yeah, sure.

"jackhammer starship Olympus astrobleme illogical sawdust bork bork bork!"
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on June 01, 2017, 04:25:37 PM
Quote from: Caliga on June 01, 2017, 04:22:28 PM
Yeah, sure.

"jackhammer starship Olympus astrobleme illogical sawdust bork bork bork!"

":w00t: :w00t:"
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on June 01, 2017, 04:26:13 PM
Anyway, yes Indonesia has been circling the drain for quite a bit now. I guess it is too far away to have the type of Islamic fundamentalism that gets people all worked up.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 01, 2017, 04:33:41 PM
They have a bit of that kind too. There was a night club bombing a few years back that killed lots of people.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on June 01, 2017, 04:41:12 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 01, 2017, 04:33:41 PM
They have a bit of that kind too. There was a night club bombing a few years back that killed lots of people.

Sorry phrased that poorly. Really meant that their Islamic fundamentalism doesn't given everyone all worked up - unless, as you've noted it involves bombs that might kill of some tourists.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Larch on August 07, 2017, 10:35:36 AM
US muslims, more accepting of homosexuality than evangelicals, according to the latest Pew survey.

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.pewresearch.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F11%2F2017%2F07%2F25120841%2FPF_2017.06.26_muslimamericans-04new-06.png&hash=2af9e53b665a7e961f7bae039600a535e05dd683)

QuoteAmerican Muslims, like the U.S. public as a whole, have become much more accepting of homosexuality in recent years. In the first Pew Research Center survey of Muslims, in 2007, far more Muslims said homosexuality should be discouraged by society (61%) than said it should be accepted (27%). By 2011, Muslims were roughly evenly split on this question. Today, Muslims who say homosexuality should be accepted by society clearly outnumber those who say it should be discouraged (52% vs. 33%).
(...)
Just as in the general population, there is a strong generational component to Muslim Americans' views about homosexuality. Young Muslims are more accepting of homosexuality than are older Muslims, with six-in-ten Muslim Millennials saying they think homosexuality should be accepted by society. But acceptance of homosexuality has increased among all generational cohorts; Muslims from the Baby Boom generation and older cohorts are today 18 percentage points more likely to accept homosexuality than they were in 2007.

Indeed, acceptance of homosexuality has increased among many Muslim demographic groups analyzed. Women are more accepting than men, but both groups are much more accepting of homosexuality today than they were a decade ago. U.S.-born and foreign-born Muslims have both become more accepting of homosexuality over time. And Muslims who say religion is "very important" in their lives have become 28 points more accepting over the last decade.

http://www.pewforum.org/2017/07/26/findings-from-pew-research-centers-2017-survey-of-us-muslims/ (http://www.pewforum.org/2017/07/26/findings-from-pew-research-centers-2017-survey-of-us-muslims/)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Grinning_Colossus on August 29, 2017, 10:24:28 AM
Percentage of Millennials in Eastern Europe Who Say Homosexuality Should Not Be Accepted By Society:

(https://i.redd.it/5hc6n826kliz.png)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Larch on August 29, 2017, 10:50:56 AM
Armenia, damn...
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on August 29, 2017, 11:12:46 AM
The Greeks have actually gotten dramatically less accepting since 400 BC
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on August 29, 2017, 11:35:17 AM
The Bohemians are thrilled to be counted as Eastern Europe.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Duque de Bragança on August 29, 2017, 12:07:57 PM
Quote from: The Brain on August 29, 2017, 11:35:17 AM
The Bohemians are thrilled to be counted as Eastern Europe.

So are Greeks.  :smarty:

Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Solmyr on August 29, 2017, 12:26:34 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 29, 2017, 11:12:46 AM
The Greeks have actually gotten dramatically less accepting since 400 BC

That's because they are now Turks.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on August 29, 2017, 12:29:41 PM
By the way doesn't Serbia have a lesbian PM? Seems weird for a country where the young adults don't think gayness should be accepted.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Larch on August 29, 2017, 12:37:38 PM
Quote from: Valmy on August 29, 2017, 12:29:41 PM
By the way doesn't Serbia have a lesbian PM? Seems weird for a country where the young adults don't think gayness should be accepted.

Yup, the first in Eastern Europe. I'm curious about the data from that map and when it's from, as it doesn't give any references. Not that long ago there was quite some hostility against LGTB in Serbia (there was an attack on the Pride day parade in 2010 and it was cancelled for several years), but AFAIK that has mellowed out quite a bit in recent times, culminating with the nomination of Ana Brnabic as PM this year, and they're expected to recognize same sex unions in a couple of years or so.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 29, 2017, 04:20:27 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/aug/29/chile-president-michelle-bachelet-introduces-gay-marriage-bill

Quote'Essential rights': Chile's President Bachelet introduces gay marriage bill

Signed a week after the country's landmark easing of its abortion ban, the bill is expected to allow same-sex couples to adopt children

The Chilean president, Michelle Bachelet, has introduced a bill to legalise gay marriage, a move that follows a string of liberal reforms in one of Latin America's most conservative nations.

In 2015, Chile's congress approved same-sex civil unions after years of legislative wrangling. In March, Bachelet, a centre-left politician, pledged to send a full marriage bill to legislators before the end of the year. On Monday, she fulfilled her promise.

"We can't let old prejudices be stronger than love," Bachelet said in Chile's La Moneda presidential palace.

"We do this with the certainty that it is not ethical or fair to put artificial limits on love, or to deny essential rights just because of the sex of those who make up a couple."

The bill is expected to allow same-sex couples to adopt children.

The move comes a week after Chile's constitutional court approved a landmark bill that will allow abortion in some circumstances.

Before that, Chile was one of only a handful of countries in the world that outlawed terminating a pregnancy in any situation, including when a woman's life was in danger.

Bachelet's push for marriage equality also comes as countries across the region are expanding gay rights. Same-sex marriage has been legalised in recent years in Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay and Mexico, despite the powerful influence of the Catholic church, which opposes such unions.

It was not immediately clear if Bachelet will be able to push the gay marriage bill through congress before she leaves office in March 2018.

Though her Nueva Mayoría coalition has a congressional majority, it is severely fractured ahead of elections in November and several members of the coalition hold socially conservative views.

Former Chilean President Sebastián Piñera has said he opposes the bill. "There should not be discrimination, but at the same time the essence of an institution such as marriage should be respected, which has always been about conserving the human race," he told the BBC.

Gay rights activists have welcomed the move.

"It's the beginning of the end of discrimination based on sexual orientation to access marriage," Luis Larraín, president of the Iguales Foundation, told the Associated Press.

"This day will be remembered as much as the day when women were granted the right to vote, slaves were freed or children born out of wedlock were granted the same rights."
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on September 01, 2017, 12:23:50 PM
I'm guessing the missing 2% in Armenia are the members of System of a Down. :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on October 04, 2017, 04:58:46 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/oct/04/one-in-50-uk-lesbian-gay-bisexual

QuoteOne in 50 people in UK now say they are lesbian, gay or bisexual

Number of people identifying as LGB has risen to over 1 million, statistics show

The percentage of people identifying as lesbian, gay or bisexual increased significantly last year to 2% of the UK population.

The proportion was up from 1.7% in 2015, according to Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures published on Wednesday, and it means there were just over 1 million people identifying as LGB in 2016.

Emily Knipe from the ONS described it as "a statistically significant increase".

She added: "London had the largest proportion of the population who identified as LGB (2.7%), which could be associated with a relatively young and diverse population."

There was a corresponding fall in the number of people identifying as heterosexual or straight, from 93.7% in 2015 to 93.4% last year. The biggest percentage increase was in those who said they were bisexual, which rose from 0.6% to 0.8%, while those identifying as gay or lesbian rose from 1.1% of the population to 1.2%.

The number who said they did not know or refused to answer remained the same at 4.1%, while 0.5% identified as "other", up from 0.4% in 2015.

The east of England had the lowest proportion who said they were LGB – 1.2%. The ONS suggested this could be associated with an older age structure of the population in the region. People aged 16 to 24 were most likely to identify as LGB in 2016 (4.1%).

The median age of the population of London was 34.8 years, while it was 41.5 years in the east of England.

The larger number of young people who identify as LGB was also cited by the ONS as one of the reasons why 70.7% of the LGB population said they were single and had never married or been in a civil partnership. Another factor was the relatively recent availability to same-sex couples of legal unions.

A higher proportion of males (2.3%) than females (1.6%) continue to identify as LGB, up from 2.0% and 1.5% the previous year respectively.

People of mixed race or "multiple ethnic groups" continued to be most like to identify themselves as LGB (4.3%). :ph34r: Of these, 2.4% said they were bisexual compared with 1.9% who said they were gay or lesbian.

A Gallup poll, published in January, found the proportion of US adults identifying as lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT) increased from 3.5% in 2012 to 4.1% last year, suggesting more than 10 million adults now identify as LGBT in the United States.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: derspiess on October 04, 2017, 08:38:38 AM
What's the percentage in Iran?  Is it still 0?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on November 14, 2017, 06:29:02 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2017/nov/15/australias-same-sex-marriage-postal-survey-results-live

QuoteAustralia's same-sex marriage postal survey: 61.6% yes, 38.4% no

QuoteMalcolm Turnbull says Australians have voted "overwhelmingly yes" for fairness and commitment.

"We asked the Australian public for their view. This was an unprecedented exercise in democracy. A voluntary survey in which 80% participated and 61.6% have said yes. That is an overwhelming participation rate and an overwhelming yes vote. I know many people -a minority obviously - voted no. But we are a fair nation. There is nothing more Australian than a fair go... equality and mutual respect, and everyone has had their say."
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Minsky Moment on November 14, 2017, 07:08:17 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 04, 2017, 08:38:38 AM
What's the percentage in Iran?

About the same as Roy Moore's Alabama.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: grumbler on November 14, 2017, 07:46:10 PM
Quote from: The Minsky Moment on November 14, 2017, 07:08:17 PM
Quote from: derspiess on October 04, 2017, 08:38:38 AM
What's the percentage in Iran?

About the same as Roy Moore's Alabama.

.... when Roy is in DC.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on November 15, 2017, 05:08:02 AM
Quote from: garbon on August 29, 2017, 04:20:27 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/aug/29/chile-president-michelle-bachelet-introduces-gay-marriage-bill

Quote'Essential rights': Chile's President Bachelet introduces gay marriage bill

ldren born out of wedlock were granted the same rights."

Slowest reply ever.
But legalised abortion and gay marriage all in one week.
I like this.
Both for being positive in itself and because it pisses off just the right people.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on November 15, 2017, 05:41:17 AM
I don't think the French care much about either of those.  :huh:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on June 23, 2018, 09:16:09 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/19/opinion/charles-rhines-gay-jury-death-row.html

QuoteOpinion

A Jury May Have Sentenced a Man to Death Because He's Gay. And the Justices Don't Care.


On Monday, the Supreme Court announced it would not stop South Dakota from killing a man who may have been sentenced to death because he is gay.

Some of the jurors who imposed the death penalty on Charles Rhines, who was convicted of murder, have said they thought the alternative — a life sentence served in a men's prison — was something he would enjoy as a gay man.

During deliberations, the jury had often discussed the fact that Mr. Rhines was gay and there was "a lot of disgust" about it, one juror recalled in an interview, according to the court petition. Another said that jurors knew he was gay and "thought that he shouldn't be able to spend his life with men in prison." A third recounted hearing that if the jury did not sentence Mr. Rhines to death, "if he's gay, we'd be sending him where he wants to go."

The justices rejected Mr. Rhines's plea to hear his bias claim, allowing his death sentence to stand despite disturbing evidence that it may have been the result of anti-L.G.B.T. animus. As usual, the court gave no explanation for its decision not to review the case. But its silence sent a deeply troubling message about the value placed on the lives of L.G.B.T. people.

In court papers opposing Mr. Rhines's request for a fair sentence, South Dakota attempts to brush off this last remark as a "stab at humor" that didn't land well. But a note from the jury to the sentencing judge leaves little doubt that this extraordinary assumption infected the jury's decision-making process: "We know what the death penalty means. But we have no clue as to the reality of life without parole."

In that note, the jurors went on to ask a series of questions aimed at whether Mr. Rhines would be in proximity to other men in prison. Would he "be allowed to mix with the general inmate population?" Would he be permitted "to discuss, describe or brag about his crime to other inmates?" Would he "have a cellmate?"

In other words, some members of the jury thought life in prison without parole would be fun for Mr. Rhines. So they decided to sentence him to death.


Juror deliberations are considered sacrosanct, but last year the Supreme Court carved out an important exception for cases of racial bias in the jury room. In a race discrimination case, there was evidence that the jury decided to convict an accused man of unlawful sexual contact and harassment because "he's Mexican, and Mexican men take whatever they want," in the words of one juror. The Supreme Court rightly found that such racial animus interfered with an accused's person right to a fair and impartial trial.

The same rule should apply when anti-L.G.B.T. prejudice taints juror decision-making. To be sure, the history of racism in America is unique and demands unique safeguards. But that does not make anti-L.G.B.T. discrimination any less objectionable, particularly when it may have made the difference between life and death.

It's difficult to square allowing the state to execute Mr. Rhines because of his sexual orientation with the Supreme Court's observation this month that states should prevent the harms of discrimination against L.G.B.T. people. And while bias in the criminal justice system is not always explicit, it was in Mr. Rhines's case. That makes the court's decision not to step in even more alarming.

Sadly, the court will almost certainly be presented with more requests to review convictions or sentences poisoned by anti-L.G.B.T. bias. It should take the next opportunity to correct this mistake and recognize that prejudice against people who are L.G.B.T. should play no role in America's criminal justice system.

However, that will probably come too late for Mr. Rhines.

Ría Tabacco Mar is a staff lawyer for the A.C.L.U.'s Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and H.I.V. Project.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: dps on June 23, 2018, 10:49:04 AM
As a supporter of the death penalty, my take isn't that it's a bad thing that he was sentenced to death.  The bad thing is that he might not have been sentenced to death if he was straight.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on June 23, 2018, 11:18:45 AM
Quote from: dps on June 23, 2018, 10:49:04 AM
As a supporter of the death penalty, my take isn't that it's a bad thing that he was sentenced to death.  The bad thing is that he might not have been sentenced to death if he was straight.

Which is the title of said article. :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Liep on June 23, 2018, 12:23:55 PM
Liverpool LGBT fan group condemns Mo Salah for accepting an honorary citizenship to Chechnya from Kadyrov. The 2nd time a muslim player creates controversy under this WC for being to close with leaders with questionable human rights records. First being Özil/Erdogan

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DgY-9OIWkAEYiGa.jpg
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/23/mo-salah-egypt-liverpool-ramzan-kadyrov-chechnya-russia-world-cup

QuoteRamzan Kadyrov has given Mohamed Salah honorary citizenship in Chechnya, taking advantage of the Liverpool forward's short stay in Russia's most controversial republic.

Egypt's national team are based in Chechnya for the World Cup despite outrage from rights organisations pointing to the region's crackdown on political opponents and a widely reported anti-gay pogrom, which Kadyrov has denied.

Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Solmyr on July 01, 2018, 04:13:53 AM
Helsinki Pride march this year had 100000 people. (https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/record-breaking_100k_march_in_helsinki_pride/10283015) Last year there were 35000.  :showoff: :yeah: Other side included one anti-gay-marriage old lady and a few nationalist racist anti-immigration types.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on July 28, 2018, 03:37:48 PM
Whilst increasingly anyone who was  famous in the 60s and 70s is being revealed to be a horrible monster, new revelations about David Atenborough just make him lovelier.

https://inews.co.uk/news/david-attenborough-fought-to-put-transgender-people-on-tv-45-years-ago-secret-bbc-memo-reveals/
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on July 28, 2018, 07:37:40 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 28, 2018, 03:37:48 PM
Whilst increasingly anyone who was  famous in the 60s and 70s is being revealed to be a horrible monster,

:unsure:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: grumbler on July 28, 2018, 09:04:32 PM
Quote from: Valmy on July 28, 2018, 07:37:40 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 28, 2018, 03:37:48 PM
Whilst increasingly anyone who was  famous in the 60s and 70s is being revealed to be a horrible monster,

:unsure:

I think he's talking about Woody Hayes and Bear Bryant.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on July 29, 2018, 09:38:37 AM
Don't forget the devilish John Wooden.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: grumbler on July 29, 2018, 11:22:36 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on July 29, 2018, 09:38:37 AM
Don't forget the devilish John Wooden.

Wooden was outed a long time ago. Look up "Sam Gilbert."
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Larch on October 07, 2018, 04:48:39 PM
A referendum was held today in Romania to change the constitution into making marriage strictly consisting of a man and a woman. The population reacted by massively...ignoring it, and the turnout was barely 20% (even with two voting days and the threshold for validity being as low as 30%).
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 07, 2018, 05:03:22 PM
Good news for Dracula and Renfield.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Solmyr on October 21, 2018, 04:07:28 PM
If you thought the Trump administration could not sink any lower...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/21/us/politics/transgender-trump-administration-sex-definition.html

QuoteWASHINGTON — The Trump administration is considering narrowly defining gender as a biological, immutable condition determined by genitalia at birth, the most drastic move yet in a governmentwide effort to roll back recognition and protections of transgender people under federal civil rights law.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on October 22, 2018, 08:50:25 AM
Quote from: Solmyr on October 21, 2018, 04:07:28 PM
If you thought the Trump administration could not sink any lower...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/21/us/politics/transgender-trump-administration-sex-definition.html

QuoteWASHINGTON — The Trump administration is considering narrowly defining gender as a biological, immutable condition determined by genitalia at birth, the most drastic move yet in a governmentwide effort to roll back recognition and protections of transgender people under federal civil rights law.

It's a totally predictable move on their part.

The Trumpites love nothing better than outraging gender activists, and the more riled up they get the activists against them, the better they like it. They know they can "sell" this debate to a majority of the population as 'our enemies' cause is fighting to let men into women's bathrooms'.

This moves the narrative away from 'Trump is a pathological liar, loyal only to himself, and even those he hand-picked as flunkies can't work with his bullshit'.   
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on October 22, 2018, 08:52:20 AM
I just want to say that I was never under the false impression that the Trump Administration cannot sink any lower.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: grumbler on October 26, 2018, 09:09:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 22, 2018, 08:52:20 AM
I just want to say that I was never under the false impression that the Trump Administration cannot sink any lower.

I thought we had reached Peak Trump with the UN speech but that illusion didn't last 24 hours. 
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on October 31, 2018, 11:23:04 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dq2VoblXcAEaWBB.jpg)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on October 31, 2018, 01:07:50 PM
Maybe it's something in the track suits? :hmm:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on October 31, 2018, 01:38:07 PM
That border between Hungary and Austria is pretty stark. Like you are passing into Magyardor.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on October 31, 2018, 02:29:14 PM
I guess Sweden and Denmark aren't as open to immigration as they claim.  :hmm:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: crazy canuck on October 31, 2018, 02:41:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 31, 2018, 01:38:07 PM
That border between Hungary and Austria is pretty stark. Like you are passing into Magyardor.

Also, Czech o Slovakia
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: ulmont on October 31, 2018, 03:09:27 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on October 31, 2018, 02:41:01 PM
Quote from: Valmy on October 31, 2018, 01:38:07 PM
That border between Hungary and Austria is pretty stark. Like you are passing into Magyardor.

Also, Czech o Slovakia

Also, LoL at Greece.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Larch on October 31, 2018, 04:38:57 PM
Finland to Russia is the ultimate shock.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Liep on October 31, 2018, 04:56:39 PM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on October 31, 2018, 02:29:14 PM
I guess Sweden and Denmark aren't as open to immigration as they claim.  :hmm:

It does look a little odd.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Tonitrus on November 01, 2018, 10:33:55 AM
There's gotta be a good "[something]-curtain descending across the continent" joke in here somewhere.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on November 01, 2018, 11:25:01 AM
Quote from: Tonitrus on November 01, 2018, 10:33:55 AM
There's gotta be a good "[something]-curtain descending across the continent" joke in here somewhere.

Fabulous. A Fabulous curtain.  :D
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on November 01, 2018, 11:26:06 AM
An absolutely fabulous curtain has descended across the continent.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on November 01, 2018, 11:36:35 AM
Quote from: Valmy on November 01, 2018, 11:26:06 AM
An absolutely fabulous curtain has descended across the continent.

I think they only were in UK, France and Morocco on that show.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on December 12, 2018, 01:19:46 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuLFexvXgAcFVLz.jpg)

Reminds me of how a few years ago, right wing populist Strache said at a ball, after dealing with leftist protesters, "We are the new Jews."
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on December 12, 2018, 01:23:16 PM
Can conservatives decorate my house?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: derspiess on December 12, 2018, 02:18:40 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 12, 2018, 01:23:16 PM
Can conservatives decorate my house?

Technically, we can.  But it will probably end up looking like a hunting lodge.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on December 12, 2018, 04:22:58 PM
Quote from: derspiess on December 12, 2018, 02:18:40 PM
Quote from: The Brain on December 12, 2018, 01:23:16 PM
Can conservatives decorate my house?

Technically, we can.  But it will probably end up looking like a hunting lodge.

:wub:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on May 21, 2019, 10:01:13 AM
Meanwhile in (surprisingly!) Alabama ....

https://www.al.com/news/2019/05/alabama-public-television-refuses-to-air-arthur-episode-with-gay-wedding.html

QuoteAlabama Public Television refuses to air Arthur episode with gay wedding

Alabama Public Television chose not to air PBS's Arthur episode that included a same-sex marriage.

In the episode, which aired nationwide May 13, Arthur and his friends attend their beloved teacher Mr. Ratburn's nuptials to his partner.

APT preempted the episode by showing a re-run of Arthur.

Mike Mckenzie, director of programming at APT, said APT was notified by WGBH and PBS in mid-April about the episode titled "Mr. Ratburn and the Special Someone" and decided to show a re-run. Mckenzie said APT has no plans to air the episode at a later date.

"Parents have trusted Alabama Public Television for more than 50 years to provide children's programs that entertain, educate and inspire," Mckenzie said in an email. "More importantly – although we strongly encourage parents to watch television with their children and talk about what they have learned afterwards – parents trust that their children can watch APT without their supervision. We also know that children who are younger than the 'target' audience for Arthur also watch the program."

APT previously pulled an episode of Arthur in 2005, when Buster, a bunny character in Arthur visited a girl who had two mothers.

"'Our feeling is that we basically have a trust with parents about our programming. This program doesn't fit into that,'' Alabama Public Television's executive then-director Allan Pizzato told AL.com in 2005.

Misty Souder, a substitute teacher in McCalla, saw the celebration of inclusion on social media and recorded the episode to watch with her 9-year-old daughter. She and her daughter were disappointed when the episode, which still was named "Mr. Ratburn and the Special Someone," turned out to be a re-run. Souder reached out to APT and used the experience to teach her daughter about the importance of speaking out for the minority groups.

"I just want her to be aware," Souder said. "There's too much going on not to stand up for stuff, even if it's Arthur. I never thought I'd be going to battle for a gay rat wedding, but here we are."

The episode is available online at pbs.org.

Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on May 21, 2019, 10:05:16 AM
Sweet home Talibama.

Ok that is probably not fair but as a Texan it is nice when other states are getting it instead of us.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: viper37 on September 03, 2019, 09:41:47 PM
Not unusual, but I still laughed  :blush:
https://is.gd/aOv77P (https://is.gd/aOv77P)
Quote
Conversion therapy center founder who sought to turn LGBTQ Christians straight says he's gay, rejects 'cycle of self shame'
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on June 14, 2020, 08:27:07 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53039864

QuotePolish election: Andrzej Duda says LGBT 'ideology' worse than communism

Polish President Andrzej Duda has called the promotion of LGBT rights an "ideology" more destructive than communism, in a campaign speech.

He is an ally of the ruling nationalist Law and Justice Party (PiS), and is seeking re-election on 28 June.

He said his parents' generation had struggled against communist ideology for 40 years and "they didn't fight for this so that a new ideology would appear that is even more destructive".

Critics say PiS has an anti-gay agenda.

The LGBT rights group ILGA-Europe says Poland is the worst-performing country in the EU in terms of LGBT rights, in an index published last month.

PiS won a majority in parliament with a conservative-nationalist agenda strong on Catholic values, including support for traditional families and opposition to gay marriage.

Speaking to supporters in Brzeg, southwestern Poland, Mr Duda said "parents are responsible for the sexual education of their children," and "it is not possible for any institutions to interfere in the way parents raise their children".

On 10 June he signed a "Family Charter" of election proposals, including pledges to prevent gay couples from marrying or adopting children and to ban teaching about LGBT issues in schools.

Tensions with EU

Putting LGBT rights activism in the same category as communism can be seen as inflammatory in Poland, where the anti-communist Solidarity movement led the struggle for democracy in the 1980s.

Many Poles agree with the PiS message that communism was a foreign ideology imposed on Poles by the Soviet Union.

PiS has clashed with the EU over judicial reforms which, according to PiS, are necessary to eliminate vestiges of communist-era corruption. Critics in the EU say PiS is politicising the judiciary and violating EU principles.

The European Commission has written to the heads of five Polish provinces expressing concern about resolutions in which they declare themselves "free from LGBT ideology". The EU's executive has reminded them of their duty to guarantee non-discrimination as a core EU value.

'Another ideology'

One of his chief rivals, liberal Warsaw Mayor Rafal Trzaskowski of the centre-right Civic Platform (PO) party, has been criticised by religious conservatives for allowing discussion of LGBT issues in Warsaw schools. The election is likely to go to a second-round runoff vote.

In his speech in Brzeg, Mr Duda said "this is not why my parents' generation for 40 years struggled to expel communist ideology from schools, so that it could not be foisted on children, could not brainwash and indoctrinate them...

"They did not fight so that we would now accept that another ideology, even more destructive to man, would come along, an ideology which under the clichés of respect and tolerance hides deep intolerance".

Rival candidate Robert Biedron of the Left party - an LGBT rights activist - called Mr Duda's Family Charter "a radical document which divides Polish society, introducing standards reminiscent of the most brutal... times of Polish and European history".


More info on the "LGBT Free Zones": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_ideology-free_zone

Over 100 municipality have pledged themselves such zones.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on June 14, 2020, 09:11:01 AM
QuotePutting LGBT rights activism in the same category as communism can be seen as inflammatory in Poland

Please name a few countries where this isn't so, BBC.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on June 14, 2020, 10:18:14 AM
Iran, Saudi Arabia, Vatican City?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sophie Scholl on June 14, 2020, 05:38:50 PM
Quote from: Syt on June 14, 2020, 08:27:07 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53039864

QuotePolish election: Andrzej Duda says LGBT 'ideology' worse than communism

Polish President Andrzej Duda has called the promotion of LGBT rights an "ideology" more destructive than communism, in a campaign speech.

He is an ally of the ruling nationalist Law and Justice Party (PiS), and is seeking re-election on 28 June.

He said his parents' generation had struggled against communist ideology for 40 years and "they didn't fight for this so that a new ideology would appear that is even more destructive".

Critics say PiS has an anti-gay agenda.

The LGBT rights group ILGA-Europe says Poland is the worst-performing country in the EU in terms of LGBT rights, in an index published last month.

PiS won a majority in parliament with a conservative-nationalist agenda strong on Catholic values, including support for traditional families and opposition to gay marriage.

Speaking to supporters in Brzeg, southwestern Poland, Mr Duda said "parents are responsible for the sexual education of their children," and "it is not possible for any institutions to interfere in the way parents raise their children".

On 10 June he signed a "Family Charter" of election proposals, including pledges to prevent gay couples from marrying or adopting children and to ban teaching about LGBT issues in schools.

Tensions with EU

Putting LGBT rights activism in the same category as communism can be seen as inflammatory in Poland, where the anti-communist Solidarity movement led the struggle for democracy in the 1980s.

Many Poles agree with the PiS message that communism was a foreign ideology imposed on Poles by the Soviet Union.

PiS has clashed with the EU over judicial reforms which, according to PiS, are necessary to eliminate vestiges of communist-era corruption. Critics in the EU say PiS is politicising the judiciary and violating EU principles.

The European Commission has written to the heads of five Polish provinces expressing concern about resolutions in which they declare themselves "free from LGBT ideology". The EU's executive has reminded them of their duty to guarantee non-discrimination as a core EU value.

'Another ideology'

One of his chief rivals, liberal Warsaw Mayor Rafal Trzaskowski of the centre-right Civic Platform (PO) party, has been criticised by religious conservatives for allowing discussion of LGBT issues in Warsaw schools. The election is likely to go to a second-round runoff vote.

In his speech in Brzeg, Mr Duda said "this is not why my parents' generation for 40 years struggled to expel communist ideology from schools, so that it could not be foisted on children, could not brainwash and indoctrinate them...

"They did not fight so that we would now accept that another ideology, even more destructive to man, would come along, an ideology which under the clichés of respect and tolerance hides deep intolerance".

Rival candidate Robert Biedron of the Left party - an LGBT rights activist - called Mr Duda's Family Charter "a radical document which divides Polish society, introducing standards reminiscent of the most brutal... times of Polish and European history".


More info on the "LGBT Free Zones": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_ideology-free_zone

Over 100 municipality have pledged themselves such zones.
I donated to a few organizations trying to fight against this in Poland. Ancestral homeland and all.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: PDH on June 14, 2020, 05:53:05 PM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on June 14, 2020, 05:38:50 PM
I donated to a few organizations trying to fight against this in Poland. Ancestral homeland and all.

You could just change your name to Angus MacPherson.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: jimmy olsen on June 15, 2020, 09:16:45 AM
GORSUCH, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which ROBERTS, C. J., and GINSBURG, BREYER, SOTOMAYOR, and KAGAN, JJ., joined. ALITO, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which THOMAS, J., joined. KAVANAUGH, J., filed a dissenting opinion.

https://twitter.com/SCOTUSblog/status/1272529876080381954

Quote#SCOTUS rules that federal employment discrimination laws protect LGBT employees
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: FunkMonk on June 15, 2020, 09:56:41 AM
Gorsuch Good.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on June 15, 2020, 10:07:59 AM
So Kavanaugh filed his own opinion. I was under the impression that usually there was usually one joint opinion for pro/contra each? Or does that happen often that dissenters file separate opinions? :unsure:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on June 15, 2020, 10:12:03 AM
Quote from: Syt on June 15, 2020, 10:07:59 AM
So Kavanaugh filed his own opinion. I was under the impression that usually there was usually one joint opinion for pro/contra each? Or does that happen often that dissenters file separate opinions? :unsure:
The US Supreme Court does this a lot more than the UK, but I think it's fairly common if the dissenters basically disagree for different reasons.

From what I've read the Gorsuch opinion makes sense to me on a very logical and textual basis. I feel like I'd always suspected he was primarily interested in a judicial philosophy (a big chunk I disagree with), while Kavanaugh is just a party hack and this seems like a possible example of that.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Maladict on June 15, 2020, 11:33:56 AM
Three votes against banning workplace discrimination? Unbelievable.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on June 15, 2020, 11:35:45 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 14, 2020, 10:18:14 AM
Iran, Saudi Arabia, Vatican City?

Now listen here you little shit.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on June 15, 2020, 12:55:19 PM
Quote from: Maladict on June 15, 2020, 11:33:56 AM
Three votes against banning workplace discrimination? Unbelievable.

Three votes against finding workplace discrimination prohibited by the constitution.  Not exactly the same thing.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on June 15, 2020, 12:56:44 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 15, 2020, 12:55:19 PM
Quote from: Maladict on June 15, 2020, 11:33:56 AM
Three votes against banning workplace discrimination? Unbelievable.

Three votes against finding workplace discrimination prohibited by the constitution.  Not exactly the same thing.
Actually it wasn't constitutional I don't think - I think it's just applying the Civil Rights Act.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: crazy canuck on June 15, 2020, 11:09:53 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 15, 2020, 12:55:19 PM
Quote from: Maladict on June 15, 2020, 11:33:56 AM
Three votes against banning workplace discrimination? Unbelievable.

Three votes against finding workplace discrimination prohibited by the constitution.  Not exactly the same thing.

No, it wasn't a constitutional argument.  Rather whether your Civil Rights Act applied.

In other countries politicians have specifically amended the applicable legislation.  Your country passed the decision to the judiciary.  Mine and yours did the same thing with abortion.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: viper37 on June 17, 2020, 03:55:41 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 15, 2020, 09:16:45 AM
GORSUCH, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which ROBERTS, C. J., and GINSBURG, BREYER, SOTOMAYOR, and KAGAN, JJ., joined. ALITO, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which THOMAS, J., joined. KAVANAUGH, J., filed a dissenting opinion.

https://twitter.com/SCOTUSblog/status/1272529876080381954

The religious zealots are alarmed: their bargain didn't work the way they intended.

Quote
[...]

The bargain has never been explicitly articulated, but religious conservatives know what it is. The bargain is that you go along with the party establishment, you support their policies and priorities—or at least keep your mouth shut about it—and, in return, the establishment will put some judges on the bench who supposedly will protect your constitutional rights to freedom of worship, to freedom of exercise. That's what we've been told for years now.

We were told that we're supposed to shut up while the party establishment focuses more on cutting taxes and handing out favors for corporations, multinational corporations who don't share our values, who will not stand up for American principles, who were only too happy to ship American jobs overseas. But we're supposed to say nothing about that. We're supposed to keep our mouths shut because maybe we'll get a judge out of the deal. That was the implicit bargain.

We're supposed to keep our mouths shut while the party establishment opens borders, while the party establishment pursues ruinous trade policies.

We're supposed to keep our mouths shut while those at the upper end of the income bracket get all of the attention. While working families and college students and those who don't want to go to college but can't get a good job, while they get what? What attention?

Workers? Children? What about parents looking for help with the cost of raising children? Looking for help with the culture in which they have to raise children? Looking for help with the communities, rebuilding the communities in which they must carry out their family life?

What about college students trying to find an education that isn't ruinously expensive and then figure out some way to pay back that enormous debt? What about those who don't have a college degree and don't want one, but would like to get a good job? What about them?

No, we're supposed to stay quiet about all of that, and more, because there may be pro-Constitution, religious liberty judges. Except for that there aren't. Except for that these judges don't follow the Constitution. Except for these judges invoke "textualism" and "originalism" in order to reach their preferred outcome.

Now I want to be clear, I am not personally criticizing any justice who joined the majority opinion or wrote it. I believe one hundred percent that the justices—the justice—who principally authored this opinion, Justice Gorsuch, and those who joined him are sincere and who were writing to the best of their ability, reasoning to the best of their ability. And the opinion is, whatever else you might say about it, is not sloppily reasoned. No, I think that they were doing what they thought was best and using all of the skills and gifts that they had.

No, I question how we got here. I question how judges who hold to this philosophy ended up on that bench. I question the bargain that people of faith have been offered and asked to hold to for all of these years.

And the truth is, to those who have objected to my own questioning of judicial nominees in this body, to those who said I was wrong to question judges who came for the Judiciary Committee, to those who chided me for asking tough questions even of nominees by a Republican president, for those who said that I was slowing the process down, that I was out of line, for the supposedly conservative groups who threatened to buy television time in my own state to punish me for asking questions about conservative judges, I just have this to say: this is why I asked questions. This is why I won't stop. And I wish some more people would ask some harder questions. Because this outcome is not acceptable. And the bargain which religious conservatives have been offered is not tenable.

So, I would just say, it's not time for religious conservatives to shut up. No, we've done that for too long. No, it's time for religious conservatives to stand up and to speak out.

[...]
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on June 17, 2020, 03:59:10 PM
Conservatives are so fucking weird creatures.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: merithyn on June 17, 2020, 04:22:17 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 17, 2020, 03:55:41 PM


The religious zealots are alarmed: their bargain didn't work the way they intended.



Who said this? I'm curious.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on June 17, 2020, 04:29:11 PM
Man it is amazing how much they sacrificed just to keep gays discriminated.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on June 17, 2020, 05:11:03 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 15, 2020, 11:09:53 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 15, 2020, 12:55:19 PM
Quote from: Maladict on June 15, 2020, 11:33:56 AM
Three votes against banning workplace discrimination? Unbelievable.

Three votes against finding workplace discrimination prohibited by the constitution.  Not exactly the same thing.

No, it wasn't a constitutional argument.  Rather whether your Civil Rights Act applied.

In other countries politicians have specifically amended the applicable legislation.  Your country passed the decision to the judiciary.  Mine and yours did the same thing with abortion.

This is not accurate.  The Morgentaler decision from the SCC clearly envisioned that Parliament could enact legislation around abortion.  It was just that the Mulroney government of the day couldn't find anything close to a consensus, and so just decided not to pass anything.

The government could ban certain forms of abortion tomorrow if they wanted to.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: crazy canuck on June 17, 2020, 05:32:19 PM
Quote from: Barrister on June 17, 2020, 05:11:03 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 15, 2020, 11:09:53 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 15, 2020, 12:55:19 PM
Quote from: Maladict on June 15, 2020, 11:33:56 AM
Three votes against banning workplace discrimination? Unbelievable.

Three votes against finding workplace discrimination prohibited by the constitution.  Not exactly the same thing.

No, it wasn't a constitutional argument.  Rather whether your Civil Rights Act applied.

In other countries politicians have specifically amended the applicable legislation.  Your country passed the decision to the judiciary.  Mine and yours did the same thing with abortion.

This is not accurate.  The Morgentaler decision from the SCC clearly envisioned that Parliament could enact legislation around abortion.  It was just that the Mulroney government of the day couldn't find anything close to a consensus, and so just decided not to pass anything.

The government could ban certain forms of abortion tomorrow if they wanted to.

Keep telling yourself that if you want.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: viper37 on June 19, 2020, 04:46:57 PM
Quote from: merithyn on June 17, 2020, 04:22:17 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 17, 2020, 03:55:41 PM


The religious zealots are alarmed: their bargain didn't work the way they intended.



Who said this? I'm curious.
I had forgotten the link, sorry:
https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2020/06/65043/

Senator Josh Hawley, Missouri Senator.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: 11B4V on June 20, 2020, 04:40:12 PM
Those bigoted fundies deserve it. "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"  what don't they understand.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: viper37 on June 23, 2020, 04:51:40 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on June 17, 2020, 05:32:19 PM
Keep telling yourself that if you want.
Legally, they could.

It's up to the majority on the Commons to decide if it's worth pissing off 90% of Canada with this silly act.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on November 02, 2020, 08:59:12 AM
Good to see the Vatican has clarified they are still bigoted. After all we wouldn't want to think the Pope's comments in favor of same sex unions are an official church position...
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: merithyn on November 02, 2020, 07:27:45 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 02, 2020, 08:59:12 AM
Good to see the Vatican has clarified they are still bigoted. After all we wouldn't want to think the Pope's comments in favor of same sex unions are an official church position...

Took longer than I thought it would. There was no way anyone in Vatican City was going to let that stand as it was.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on November 02, 2020, 07:46:52 PM
That would have been awfully embarrassing for Poland though. Here they are oppressing gays and suddenly one of their main excuses for doing so might have been threatened.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: 11B4V on November 02, 2020, 08:57:09 PM
Welcome to the present day Vatican. Fucking wankers.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: 11B4V on November 02, 2020, 09:07:23 PM
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/02/europe/vatican-pope-civil-union-intl/index.html

Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: viper37 on November 03, 2020, 07:59:17 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 02, 2020, 08:59:12 AM
Good to see the Vatican has clarified they are still bigoted. After all we wouldn't want to think the Pope's comments in favor of same sex unions are an official church position...
he just says he's againt "marriage" because that has a religious significance.

The Vatican is much less bigoted than your average Republican.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: merithyn on November 04, 2020, 01:03:05 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 03, 2020, 07:59:17 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 02, 2020, 08:59:12 AM
Good to see the Vatican has clarified they are still bigoted. After all we wouldn't want to think the Pope's comments in favor of same sex unions are an official church position...
he just sais he's againt "marriage" because that has a religious significance.

The Vatican is much less bigoted than your average Republican.

You know, you're not wrong.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: 11B4V on November 05, 2020, 01:00:35 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 03, 2020, 07:59:17 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 02, 2020, 08:59:12 AM
Good to see the Vatican has clarified they are still bigoted. After all we wouldn't want to think the Pope's comments in favor of same sex unions are an official church position...
he just says he's againt "marriage" because that has a religious significance.

The Vatican is much less bigoted than your average Republican.

No they're just loons
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: viper37 on November 05, 2020, 09:05:56 PM
Quote from: 11B4V on November 05, 2020, 01:00:35 AM
Quote from: viper37 on November 03, 2020, 07:59:17 PM
Quote from: garbon on November 02, 2020, 08:59:12 AM
Good to see the Vatican has clarified they are still bigoted. After all we wouldn't want to think the Pope's comments in favor of same sex unions are an official church position...
he just says he's againt "marriage" because that has a religious significance.

The Vatican is much less bigoted than your average Republican.

No they're just loons
it's a religion.  not many organized religion are tolerant toward homosexuality.
Compared to what it was with John Paul II and Benedict XVI, the Vatican has made a lot of progress.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on July 19, 2021, 04:44:33 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/18/dozens-arrested-in-los-angeles-as-anti-trans-protest-outside-spa-turns-violent

QuoteDozens arrested in Los Angeles as anti-trans protest outside spa turns violent

Dozens of people have been arrested in Los Angeles following a chaotic and at times violent demonstration by anti-transgender protesters who targeted a Koreatown spa that has a trans-inclusive policy allowing trans women to use women's facilities.

Saturday marked the second weekend of violent protests this month in the streets around Wi Spa, a neighborhood business that has found itself at the heart of a right-wing media storm over an alleged incident in which a customer filmed herself complaining about a trans woman in the women's area of the spa.

The far-right protesters called for a boycott of Wi Spa and chanted baseless claims about paedophilia, as women carrying signs reading "protect female spaces" and "It's worse in women's shelters" marched alongside men wearing helmets and masks that covered their faces.

Calls to defend "female spaces" and "women's shelters" have become rallying cries of anti-trans groups, who have falsely suggested that trans-inclusive policies endanger cis women. California has for years had laws in place that allow trans people to use facilities that match their gender.

The chants and signs in Los Angeles on Saturday highlighted the convergence of anti-trans activism with other strains of far-right activism. Many demonstrators chanted "Save our children," a slogan taken up by QAnon conspiracy theorists, whose ideology is centered on an elaborate narrative about a cabal of influential paedophiles. Other demonstrators wore shirts pledging to murder leftwing activists, with reference to rightwing death squads in Chile in the 1970s. According to multiple protesters, Arthur Schaper, the leader of the California chapter of an anti-LGBT hate group, arrived early to the protest outside Wi Spa and took refuge behind a line of police officers as trans rights protesters heckled him.

For hours on Saturday, the neighborhood around Wi Spa was filled with lines of police in riot helmets and clashes between police and protesters, with reports of less-lethal weapons being used against the trans rights and anti-fascist activists who showed up as part of a counter-protest against the far-right demonstrators. The volatile protests, in the middle of an ordinary Saturday, left some passers-by confused and fearful.

A Los Angeles police department spokesperson said police made several dozen arrests for failure to disperse after declaring an unlawful assembly shortly after 11am. LAPD also appeared to fire rubber bullets at trans rights demonstrators from a close distance, despite a recent judge's ruling restricting the department's use of certain "less lethal" projectile launchers against protesters. A Guardian journalist who tried to interview far-right protesters was chased, pushed, and shoved to the ground.

...

:(
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on July 19, 2021, 04:53:00 AM
Bad, but what does it have to do with gay stuff?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on July 19, 2021, 04:57:58 AM
(https://buffer.com/resources/content/images/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/61553256_2493493414003895_2749817197395181568_n.jpg)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on July 19, 2021, 05:01:01 AM
OK? I mean this is a gay thread, not an LGBT+ thread. There's even an active transgender megathread. But now I know the reasoning, thanks. I was just curious.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on July 19, 2021, 05:02:19 AM
Quote from: The Brain on July 19, 2021, 05:01:01 AM
OK? I mean this is a gay thread, not an LGBT+ thread. There's even an active transgender megathread. But now I know the reasoning, thanks. I was just curious.

Actually, if you look back we've posts across the LGBT spectrum in this thread.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on July 19, 2021, 05:03:40 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 19, 2021, 05:02:19 AM
Quote from: The Brain on July 19, 2021, 05:01:01 AM
OK? I mean this is a gay thread, not an LGBT+ thread. There's even an active transgender megathread. But now I know the reasoning, thanks. I was just curious.

Actually, if you look back we've posts across the LGBT spectrum in this thread.

Languish cannot stay on-topic. :(
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on July 21, 2021, 07:46:14 AM
https://abouthungary.hu/blog/pm-orban-announces-referendum-on-child-protection-law-the-future-of-our-children-is-at-stake

QuotePM Orbán announces referendum on child protection law: The future of our children is at stake

Prime Minister Orbán took to his Facebook page to announce five questions that will be put to voters in an upcoming referendum on Hungary's child protection law. Five years ago, the PM said, it was a referendum and the common will of the people that stopped Brussels from forcing us to accept migrants. We stopped them then, we can stop them now, PM Orbán said.

In a video statement on his Facebook page, Prime Minister Viktor Orbán announced that his government is launching a referendum on Hungary's child protection law.

"Brussels has clearly attacked Hungary in recent weeks over the child protection law," PM Orbán began, adding that the current Hungarian legislation keeps sexual propaganda out of kindergartens, schools, TV shows and advertisements. Now, the PM continued, Brussels is demanding amendments to the Education Act and child protection law.

In Western Europe, "LGBTQ activists visit kindergartens and schools and conduct sexual education classes. They want to do this here in Hungary as well, which is why the bureaucrats in Brussels are threatening us and initiating infringement procedures — that is, abusing their power," PM Orbán said. According to the prime minister, when the pressure on our country is so strong, it is only the common will of the people that can protect Hungary.

Therefore, the Hungarian Government has decided to initiate a referendum on the following five questions:

Do you support the holding of presentations in public education institutions to introduce minors to topics on sexual orientation without the authorization of their parents?
Do you support the promotion of gender reassignment treatments for minors?
Do you support gender reassignment treatments being made available to minors?
Do you support minors being shown, without any restriction, media content of a sexual nature that is capable of influencing their development?
Do you support minors being shown media content that demonstrates gender reassignment?

Ultimately, the prime minister asked Hungarians to say no to these questions, just as they did five years ago when we stopped Brussels from forcing migrants on us.

"We have already succeeded once, and together we will succeed again," PM Orbán said in closing.

Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on July 21, 2021, 07:55:51 AM
:bleeding:

Such a trap. Yes wins- interpret to the max, no wins- interpret very selectively.  Its done either way.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Gups on July 21, 2021, 08:54:28 AM
Quote from: garbon on July 19, 2021, 04:57:58 AM
(https://buffer.com/resources/content/images/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/61553256_2493493414003895_2749817197395181568_n.jpg)

Wouldn't it be easier to just use the first Q
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on July 21, 2021, 10:40:59 AM
I do wish everyone would settle on something easy to remember and agree on. 

There appear to be several different competing versions that include or exclude different identities. For example: What happened to the two-spirited? I'm used to seeing "LGBT" increased to "LGBTQ2+". This other version is longer but has dropped the "2+".

If I had any clout I'd suggest "rainbow" instead, to represent the wide spectrum of identities involved. The rainbow is already the symbol for pride, so it would be easy to remember and has a connection.

Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on July 21, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
In theory I think that was broadly what queer was used for (eg queering the text), but it is controversial especially for older people where it's a word that doesn't really have many positive connotations for them.

I tend to stick to LGBT+.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Jacob on July 21, 2021, 10:47:27 AM
Quote from: Gups on July 21, 2021, 08:54:28 AM
Wouldn't it be easier to just use the first Q

It would.

But I guess the thing is if you're marginalized, it's important to be able to define yourself and to be able to point out differences and have that taken at face value. So the movement representing the marginalized does its best to be as inclusive as possible in terms of terminology.

... but it would be convenient to have a simple collective term, as LGTTBQQIAAP is a bit of a mouthful.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on July 21, 2021, 10:57:49 AM
Quote from: Jacob on July 21, 2021, 10:47:27 AM
It would.

But I guess the thing is if you're marginalized, it's important to be able to define yourself and to be able to point out differences and have that taken at face value. So the movement representing the marginalized does its best to be as inclusive as possible in terms of terminology.

... but it would be convenient to have a simple collective term, as LGTTBQQIAAP is a bit of a mouthful.
Yeah I am aware that "LGBT+" does basically put people who are not widely represented/visible basically in an "etc etc" bit at the end which makes me a little bit dubious about it. But it also seems the more easy to say (and less regularly updated) while acknowledging the identities beyond LGBT.

I would like queer as the catch-all and I wouldn't be surprised if that's where we get to, but I think it is difficult for the generation where that was just a slur and only a slur.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on July 21, 2021, 11:06:52 AM
I have heard GSM, Gender and Sexual Minorities, which would be my preference but I cannot really use it since nobody knows what it is. So I use LGBTQ even knowing that that is not entirely inclusive of everybody.

But I will use whatever.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Jacob on July 21, 2021, 11:35:29 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 21, 2021, 10:57:49 AM
I would like queer as the catch-all and I wouldn't be surprised if that's where we get to, but I think it is difficult for the generation where that was just a slur and only a slur.

Interesting. I've watched people have it out (on the internet) on the subject, and in that case it was older folks who'd embraced "queer" as a reclamation project, while younger folks felt it didn't reflect them and was just a slur.

A complete tangent: I've been reading the Lord of the Rings to my son, and Tolkien uses the word "queer" quite a lot. I've found that I'm much more comfortable saying "weird" when reading the story due to the usage drift since the book was written.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 21, 2021, 11:41:43 AM
"Pansexual" is new to me.  Is that possibly a back door for bestiality?  :hmm:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on July 21, 2021, 11:42:47 AM
Quote from: Jacob on July 21, 2021, 11:35:29 AM
Interesting. I've watched people have it out (on the internet) on the subject, and in that case it was older folks who'd embraced "queer" as a reclamation project, while younger folks felt it didn't reflect them and was just a slur.
That is interesting. From my experiences I'd say the AIDS generation and older have always seemed more uncomfortable with it, while the one after them were probably more exposed to queer theory and as you say reclaiming the word. But you might be right on younger people - I have seen more young people coming out as "queer" rather than specifically gay/bisexual/trans/non-binary etc. So I am aware that my own attachment and awareness of those distinct identities might ultimately be a thing that younger generations just do away with.

QuoteA complete tangent: I've been reading the Lord of the Rings to my son, and Tolkien uses the word "queer" quite a lot. I've found that I'm much more comfortable saying "weird" when reading the story due to the usage drift since the book was written.
:lol: Yeah. I can see why you'd do that.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on July 21, 2021, 11:43:05 AM
I feel like queer often gets trotted out by people who want to join the "special club". -_-
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on July 21, 2021, 11:44:01 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 21, 2021, 11:41:43 AM
"Pansexual" is new to me.  Is that possibly a back door for bestiality?  :hmm:

:huh:

No its about being attracted to people rather than gender/sex.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on July 21, 2021, 11:44:12 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 21, 2021, 11:41:43 AM
"Pansexual" is new to me.  Is that possibly a back door for bestiality?  :hmm:
No :lol:

But this is where my crotchety old man comes up because I have friends who are pansexual etc - and in every case I don't understand why they can't just say they're in a good old fashioned open relationship, or identify as French <_<
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on July 21, 2021, 11:49:13 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 21, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
In theory I think that was broadly what queer was used for (eg queering the text), but it is controversial especially for older people where it's a word that doesn't really have many positive connotations for them.

I tend to stick to LGBT+.

I would go with that, but it has so much baggage - as you and others note, its use as a slur.

Maybe the new generation doesn't see it that way?

I can never keep track of this stuff - like depending on how old you are, "gay" is either a completely objective term to describe male homosexuals, a term used like "queer" to describe anyone who is covered by the spectrum, or a term that means "lame or bad".
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 21, 2021, 12:05:59 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 21, 2021, 11:44:01 AM
:huh:

No its about being attracted to people rather than gender/sex.

How's that different than bisexual?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: crazy canuck on July 21, 2021, 12:09:12 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 21, 2021, 11:49:13 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 21, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
In theory I think that was broadly what queer was used for (eg queering the text), but it is controversial especially for older people where it's a word that doesn't really have many positive connotations for them.

I tend to stick to LGBT+.

I would go with that, but it has so much baggage - as you and others note, its use as a slur.

Maybe the new generation doesn't see it that way?

I can never keep track of this stuff - like depending on how old you are, "gay" is either a completely objective term to describe male homosexuals, a term used like "queer" to describe anyone who is covered by the spectrum, or a term that means "lame or bad".

I am old enough to remember when gay meant happy.  Watched a lot of Flinstone cartoons - "You'll have a gay old time".

Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on July 21, 2021, 12:15:16 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 21, 2021, 12:05:59 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 21, 2021, 11:44:01 AM
:huh:

No its about being attracted to people rather than gender/sex.

How's that different than bisexual?

I think it's that bisexuals like more than one gender, while pansexuals like all / that gender and sex aren't really a factor in their sexual attraction.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on July 21, 2021, 12:21:24 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 21, 2021, 12:09:12 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 21, 2021, 11:49:13 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 21, 2021, 10:44:32 AM
In theory I think that was broadly what queer was used for (eg queering the text), but it is controversial especially for older people where it's a word that doesn't really have many positive connotations for them.

I tend to stick to LGBT+.

I would go with that, but it has so much baggage - as you and others note, its use as a slur.

Maybe the new generation doesn't see it that way?

I can never keep track of this stuff - like depending on how old you are, "gay" is either a completely objective term to describe male homosexuals, a term used like "queer" to describe anyone who is covered by the spectrum, or a term that means "lame or bad".

I am old enough to remember when gay meant happy.  Watched a lot of Flinstone cartoons - "You'll have a gay old time".

By the time I was watching the Flintstones in re-runs, such use already seemed archaic (and giggle-inducing, if you a kid).

Never mind Sherlock Holmes: " 'My dear Holmes!' Watson ejaculated. "I've come over all queer suddenly.' ".
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: crazy canuck on July 21, 2021, 12:22:51 PM
I had a good laugh imagining Jacob translating that on the fly when he reads the Sherlock Holmes stories to his kids.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on July 21, 2021, 12:30:34 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 21, 2021, 12:22:51 PM
I had a good laugh imagining Jacob translating that on the fly when he reads the Sherlock Holmes stories to his kids.

😄

"My dear Holmes!" Watson exclaimed. "I'm feeling unwell all of a sudden".
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on July 21, 2021, 12:31:39 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 21, 2021, 12:21:24 PM
By the time I was watching the Flintstones in re-runs, such use already seemed archaic (and giggle-inducing, if you a kid).

Never mind Sherlock Holmes: " 'My dear Holmes!' Watson ejaculated. "I've come over all queer suddenly.' ".
Well that has form:
(https://thetop10084055174.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/bringing-up-baby-gif-source-1.gif)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on July 21, 2021, 12:33:59 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 21, 2021, 12:15:16 PM
I think it's that bisexuals like more than one gender, while pansexuals like all / that gender and sex aren't really a factor in their sexual attraction.

That sounds like the same thing to me.

"Back in my day, all we had was gay and straight, and that was good enough for us!"
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Brain on July 21, 2021, 12:35:07 PM
Quote from: Malthus on July 21, 2021, 12:30:34 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on July 21, 2021, 12:22:51 PM
I had a good laugh imagining Jacob translating that on the fly when he reads the Sherlock Holmes stories to his kids.

😄

"My dear Holmes!" Watson exclaimed. "I'm feeling unwell all of a sudden".

I'm not a huge fan of going back and cleaning up the classics. Let kids experience the German folk tales and other stuff in the original form. I'm sure they'll be fine.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on July 21, 2021, 12:48:13 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 21, 2021, 12:33:59 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 21, 2021, 12:15:16 PM
I think it's that bisexuals like more than one gender, while pansexuals like all / that gender and sex aren't really a factor in their sexual attraction.

That sounds like the same thing to me.

"Back in my day, all we had was gay and straight, and that was good enough for us!"

Pansexuals would also be into non-binary/gender-fluid partners.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: viper37 on July 21, 2021, 02:39:28 PM
Quote from: Syt on July 21, 2021, 12:48:13 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 21, 2021, 12:33:59 PM
Quote from: garbon on July 21, 2021, 12:15:16 PM
I think it's that bisexuals like more than one gender, while pansexuals like all / that gender and sex aren't really a factor in their sexual attraction.

That sounds like the same thing to me.

"Back in my day, all we had was gay and straight, and that was good enough for us!"

Pansexuals would also be into non-binary/gender-fluid partners.

I'm pretty sure bisexuals would be too.

Overclassification gets silly.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on July 21, 2021, 03:28:06 PM
Quote from: Jacob on July 21, 2021, 11:35:29 AM
Quote from: Sheilbh on July 21, 2021, 10:57:49 AM
I would like queer as the catch-all and I wouldn't be surprised if that's where we get to, but I think it is difficult for the generation where that was just a slur and only a slur.

Interesting. I've watched people have it out (on the internet) on the subject, and in that case it was older folks who'd embraced "queer" as a reclamation project, while younger folks felt it didn't reflect them and was just a slur.

A complete tangent: I've been reading the Lord of the Rings to my son, and Tolkien uses the word "queer" quite a lot. I've found that I'm much more comfortable saying "weird" when reading the story due to the usage drift since the book was written.

Yeah, queer seems an odd one to me.
I know how LGBT folk use it and how it is used against them. But the original meaning remains far more valid than that of gay.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: crazy canuck on July 21, 2021, 03:42:02 PM
Quote from: Tyr on July 21, 2021, 03:28:06 PM
Yeah, queer seems an odd one to me.

:D
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on July 26, 2021, 12:34:19 PM
Quote from: Faeelin on April 07, 2009, 01:26:39 PM
Quote from: Caliga on April 07, 2009, 11:37:11 AM
Quote from: crazy canuck on April 07, 2009, 11:33:41 AM
How long will it take before opposing gay marriage becomes politically taboo in the US.  In Canada it took about one Federal election.

It'll take much longer than that.  It's going to be a very, very tough battle in the South.
We'll see.

Right, now, a third of Americans support gay marriage; a third support civil unions.  I think it is probable that most or all of the Northeast will have gay marriage by 2012, with civil unions in Illinois, Oregon, Washington, and California.

Once you get to that point, you're talking about hundreds of millions of Americans who live in states where gays are forming families with state recognition, and the world not ending.

My guess is a supreme court case sometime in the 2020s, but I could be wrong.

I found this when trying to see if we used to bitch about politicization of the US Supreme Court back in the day.

Interesting to see how that matches up to how things played out...but also what we are busy culture warring about here in the 2020s. -_-
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on August 20, 2021, 02:59:08 AM
https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/08/19/lgb-alliance-charity-commission-tweet/

QuoteCharity watchdog in talks with anti-trans LGB Alliance after 'hateful' bestiality tweet

The anti-trans group gained charitable status earlier this year in spite of fierce objections from multiple LGBT+ charities and a petition signed by more than 44,000 people.

Further concerns were raised last week when the LGB Alliance posted a tweet that violated Twitter's policy on hateful conduct.

It read: "Adding the + to LGB gives the green light to paraphilias like bestiality – and more – to all be part of one big happy 'rainbow family'. Wake up policy makers.

"LGB people refuse to be used in your artificial and dangerous argument that we must all be lumped together. #NoToHomophobia."


The LGBT+ acronym is used to describe all people who fall under the queer umbrella, including the intersex, asexual and aromantic communities.

The LGB Alliance's offensive tweet has since been deleted and in its place a message says: "This tweet is no longer available because it violated the Twitter rules."

The Charity Commission, the official regulating body for charities in England and Wales, said it was aware of the issue and is in now talks with the LGB Alliance.

A spokesperson said: "We are aware of concerns about recent social media activity by the LGB Alliance, and are engaging with the charity's trustees on this matter. We cannot comment further at this time."

Bev Jackson, co-founder of LGB Alliance, told the Civil Society: "It is never our intention to cause offence but to robustly speak out on issues of concern to LGB people. We believe in free speech and respectful debate and take our responsibilities as a charity very seriously."

To maintain its charitable status the LGB Alliance must abide by the Charities Act 2011 and the Charities (Protection and Social Investment) Act 2016.

The Charity Commission may issue an official warning if it feels the charity has committed a form of misconduct, mismanagement or breach of trust.

The LGB Alliance claimed to the Charity Commission that its purposes are the protection of human rights and the promotion of equality for LGB people.

But in a March 2020 speech, LGB Alliance director Bev Jackson said: "We're applying for charitable status and building an organisation to challenge the dominance of those who promote the damaging theory of gender identity."


The Charity. Commission's decision to register the LGB Alliance as an official charity is now subject to an appeal lodged by the trans children's charity Mermaids.

The crowdfunded appeal is backed by the Good Law Project, Gendered Intelligence, TransActual, LGBT+ Consortium and LGBT Foundation. A fundraising page opened in June and has so far raised nearly £65,000 against a target of £80,000.

"Charitable status is for those who serve the public good," said Jolyon Maugham, director of the Good Law Project.

"Denigrating trans people, attacking those who speak for them, and campaigning to remove legal protections from them is the very opposite of a public good. We do not believe they meet the threshold tests to be registered as a charity."

Their legal challenge has been filed with the Charity Tribunal and a case management hearing is expected to take place in early September.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on August 20, 2021, 04:25:07 AM
At law school my trusts and equity professor was extremely conservative and you used to be guaranteed a semi-regular rant about two main things: people wanting to take charitable status away from private schools; or New Labour changing charity law to try and cover all NGOs/Third Sector organisations :lol:

But his specific complaint was that the reform which I think - and this could be nonsense: one man's rant, remembered imperfectly - changed from having to only spend money on the charities objects or purposes to a wider "public benefit" concept. The intent was to try and cover the entire non-public/private sector within charities law. In his view the effect was to make charities move into being a bit like pressure/campaign groups, so if you donate you used to know the charity would spend the money on x thing that they were set up to do (helping the homeless) now it is as likely to be spent on campaigining or lobbying which in his view was just wrong - that's why pressure groups were sort of half-in and out of charities law.

So I'm not an expert but I'm not convinced they're in breach of charities law.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sophie Scholl on August 22, 2021, 02:45:31 PM
The LBG Alliance is 100% an anti-trans hategroup. That is their sole purpose. The mindblowing thing for me is that they are simply re-using all of the anti-LGB propaganda from earlier decades and aiming it at trans people. Often the only thing being changed is the name of the targeted group. I honestly don't understand how any LGB person is backing this effort other than in a sick "I got mine, fuck everyone else" or some whack collaborator Jüdischer Ordnungsdienst style mindset, especially trans participants like Buck Angel. Once trans people are disposed of, the LGB community will be right back to being public enemy number 1 for the people driving so much of these efforts financially and organizationally.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on August 22, 2021, 03:10:52 PM
I think you're underestimating the genuine TERF-ness in the UK - and I don't know why it is far larger here than elsewhere in the world. That might describe the LGB Alliance - I don't think it works for the Green Party who are currently having a leadership race precisely because of trans issues, or splits in the SNP, or the regular conference arguments over this at Labour and Lib Dem conference, or the turmoil it occasionally causes at the Guardian.

These are not institutions with a big history of being anti LGB, but are pretty incredibly riled and divided on this issue. I think certainly more than the USA, it is genuine radical feminists with a history of being actual feminists here. I don't know why it's so different in the UK - beyond, possibly, the radicalising effect of Mumsnet :ph34r:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sophie Scholl on August 22, 2021, 03:50:17 PM
Oh, the TERF levels are definitely insanely high in the UK. The fact that so many otherwise reasonable people have embraced anti-trans groupthink and allied with legitimate rightwing groups they never would have dreamed of partnering with anything on and yet not at all having that be a wake-up call that maybe, just maybe they're on the wrong side of things blows my mind. I keep waiting for them to have an, "Are we the baddies?!" moment, but it never comes. Instead they just keep digging in deeper and unearthing more horrid humans to ally with the deeper they dig. I think a lot can be tied to the unique mindset of British condescension paired with never getting beyond Second Wave Feminism and its many, many issues. The men who join in the TERF movement seem to be almost all pretty horrible humans from the start who have found a way to weaponize their misogyny and get rewarded for it by other women. Wild stuff. And incredibly awful, frustrating, and damaging.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on August 31, 2021, 12:35:47 PM
Interesting - and useful reminder that media discourse is, very often, just that:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-HLooeXEAY3mW5?format=jpg&name=small)

Also - bloody hell France :o :blink: I wonder if this is like the vaccine polling were 70% of French people were like "I hate the vaccine and I will not take it" before all taking the vaccine and we have to, reluctantly, conclude the French are all edgelords.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Razgovory on August 31, 2021, 12:46:15 PM
I am not supportive of anyone anywhere for any reason.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on August 31, 2021, 12:51:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 31, 2021, 12:46:15 PM
I am not supportive of anyone anywhere for any reason.
"I'll put you down as a Lib Dem."
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: The Larch on August 31, 2021, 01:03:15 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 31, 2021, 12:35:47 PM
Interesting - and useful reminder that media discourse is, very often, just that:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-HLooeXEAY3mW5?format=jpg&name=small)

Also - bloody hell France :o :blink: I wonder if this is like the vaccine polling were 70% of French people were like "I hate the vaccine and I will not take it" before all taking the vaccine and we have to, reluctantly, conclude the French are all edgelords.

Wooo, we're #1!  :w00t: :yeah: :boff:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on August 31, 2021, 01:56:44 PM
:w00t:

Also lots more gays in Spain/people who know gays - can confirm from my experience as a visitor too :P
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-HTMuGWEAIcJyl?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on August 31, 2021, 02:04:23 PM
Perfectly demonstrates the point that the culture war is a load of bollocks.
It's not two sides, the transphobes and the nut cases who want people to be able to declare themselves women then do whatever on a whim. Its the transphobes and everyone else who really aren't that bothered if someone is trans.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Razgovory on August 31, 2021, 02:29:41 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 31, 2021, 12:51:31 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on August 31, 2021, 12:46:15 PM
I am not supportive of anyone anywhere for any reason.
"I'll put you down as a Lib Dem."

:lol:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on August 31, 2021, 03:36:32 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 31, 2021, 12:35:47 PM
Interesting - and useful reminder that media discourse is, very often, just that:

I forget the name of the phenomena, but there is a known phenomenon where people will tell pollsters what they think the pollster wants to hear, rather than what they truly believe, on certain hot-button issues like this.

Pollsters do have methods of trying to get around that problem, but with only limited success.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: HVC on August 31, 2021, 03:45:19 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 31, 2021, 01:56:44 PM
:w00t:

Also lots more gays in Spain/people who know gays - can confirm from my experience as a visitor too :P


Just because they speak with a lisp doesn't mean they're gay :P
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on August 31, 2021, 03:46:18 PM
Quote from: Barrister on August 31, 2021, 03:36:32 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on August 31, 2021, 12:35:47 PM
Interesting - and useful reminder that media discourse is, very often, just that:

I forget the name of the phenomena, but there is a known phenomenon where people will tell pollsters what they think the pollster wants to hear, rather than what they truly believe, on certain hot-button issues like this.

Pollsters do have methods of trying to get around that problem, but with only limited success.
Tell the French :P

Edit: Or to be more specific for the UK at least there's interesting polling on what people actually mean by being "supportive" or "pro-trans" and it's basically quite nuanced - but not as polarised as either side of the discourse would suggest:
(https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/2020-07-16/Transgender%20attitudes%20summary-01.png)
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on September 01, 2021, 07:41:20 AM
Grr, that bloody sports question. So bloody binary. The solution to tackling this is to toss out the idea that the nuclear option is the only possible solution.
Trans women should be free to take part in womens sports by default. They're women. They can do anything women can.
This doesn't mean sports governing bodies should be banned from defining exactly who is a woman as they've been trying to do for decades through various means. Obviously totally different situation when you're looking at the Olympics vs. a sunday league kickabout.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on September 01, 2021, 10:30:18 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 01, 2021, 07:41:20 AM
Trans women should be free to take part in womens sports by default. They're women. They can do anything women can.

Yeah but its misnamed. "Womens" Sports were not created because different genders need different sports leagues. That doesn't make any sense. When people change their gender identification it doesn't change their ability to do sports at all. Should we create a new area of sports for gender fluid people? If an athlete in "men's" or "women's" sports suddenly came out as gender fluid should they be kicked out? No. Of course not. That person wouldn't suddenly have different athletic capabilities, it is not a magical spell.

It is like the concept of women's health or gynecology. This was not created because people who identify in different ways literally have different bodies and health needs.

These are archaic names that were created when the assumption was that sex = gender. But since that is no longer our understanding it seems ridiculous to then go back and pretend that was never our understanding and therefore everybody who identifies as a woman needs a "gynecologist" or should be participating in "women's" sports. That strikes me as engaging in some kind of delusion or play pretend that the past was the same as today.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on September 01, 2021, 11:04:13 AM
QuoteYeah but its misnamed. "Womens" Sports were not created because different genders need different sports leagues. That doesn't make any sense. When people change their gender identification it doesn't change their ability to do sports at all. Should we create a new area of sports for gender fluid people? If an athlete in "men's" or "women's" sports suddenly came out as gender fluid should they be kicked out? No. Of course not. That person wouldn't suddenly have different athletic capabilities, it is not a magical spell.

It is like the concept of women's health or gynecology. This was not created because people who identify in different ways literally have different bodies and health needs.

These are archaic names that were created when the assumption was that sex = gender. But since that is no longer our understanding it seems ridiculous to then go back and pretend that was never our understanding and therefore everybody who identifies as a woman needs a "gynecologist" or should be participating in "women's" sports. That strikes me as engaging in some kind of delusion or play pretend that the past was the same as today.
I get where you're coming from but I don't think the gynecology comparison works.

Womens sports being created as a segregated field was less due to the lower physical capacity of women, and far more due to gender differences and the squickiness of men and women in varying states of undress getting sweaty and physical together.
These remain valid no matter whether its a cisgender or a transgender woman you're talking about. Having trans-women in mens sports goes against why womens sports exist in the first place.

As said that top level sports governing bodies place boundaries on who qualifies as a woman and who doesn't is fine. Exactly where these boundaries lie is hard to say, they're constantly being adjusted. They lead to many false positives with cisgender women being banned, however if a trans woman qualifies as within the bounds then she is entitled to compete just like anyone else- though needs noting its very likely a large number of trans women don't qualify according to the rules of many sports, and they're continually evolving. If trans women entering a sport starts to become an actual issue its more than likely they'd tighten up the rules to exclude them.

Always forgotten in this issue however....in sports in general this isn't the default. If a random girl wants to go join a girl's basketball club they don't insist on making her take a testosterone test before hand. She's a girl so she plays basketball with other girls. Simple.
The concept of sportsmanship is key in all this. For the overwhelming majority of people taking part in sports its not about the winning, its about the taking part. Whether someone was once a man thus is stronger than 90% of women is irrelevant to this.
Its ridiculous to get upset about the prospect of Andy Murray deciding he is now Alice Murray just so he can win Wimbledon again and launching a full nuclear "OK, no transwomen in any sports ever" as the only possible alternative to such a mad theoretical scenario.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Darth Wagtaros on September 01, 2021, 11:27:48 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 01, 2021, 11:04:13 AM
QuoteYeah but its misnamed. "Womens" Sports were not created because different genders need different sports leagues. That doesn't make any sense. When people change their gender identification it doesn't change their ability to do sports at all. Should we create a new area of sports for gender fluid people? If an athlete in "men's" or "women's" sports suddenly came out as gender fluid should they be kicked out? No. Of course not. That person wouldn't suddenly have different athletic capabilities, it is not a magical spell.

It is like the concept of women's health or gynecology. This was not created because people who identify in different ways literally have different bodies and health needs.

These are archaic names that were created when the assumption was that sex = gender. But since that is no longer our understanding it seems ridiculous to then go back and pretend that was never our understanding and therefore everybody who identifies as a woman needs a "gynecologist" or should be participating in "women's" sports. That strikes me as engaging in some kind of delusion or play pretend that the past was the same as today.
I get where you're coming from but I don't think the gynecology comparison works.

Womens sports being created as a segregated field was less due to the lower physical capacity of women, and far more due to gender differences and the squickiness of men and women in varying states of undress getting sweaty and physical together.
These remain valid no matter whether its a cisgender or a transgender woman you're talking about. Having trans-women in mens sports goes against why womens sports exist in the first place.

As said that top level sports governing bodies place boundaries on who qualifies as a woman and who doesn't is fine. Exactly where these boundaries lie is hard to say, they're constantly being adjusted. They lead to many false positives with cisgender women being banned, however if a trans woman qualifies as within the bounds then she is entitled to compete just like anyone else- though needs noting its very likely a large number of trans women don't qualify according to the rules of many sports, and they're continually evolving. If trans women entering a sport starts to become an actual issue its more than likely they'd tighten up the rules to exclude them.

Always forgotten in this issue however....in sports in general this isn't the default. If a random girl wants to go join a girl's basketball club they don't insist on making her take a testosterone test before hand. She's a girl so she plays basketball with other girls. Simple.
The concept of sportsmanship is key in all this. For the overwhelming majority of people taking part in sports its not about the winning, its about the taking part. Whether someone was once a man thus is stronger than 90% of women is irrelevant to this.
Its ridiculous to get upset about the prospect of Andy Murray deciding he is now Alice Murray just so he can win Wimbledon again and launching a full nuclear "OK, no transwomen in any sports ever" as the only possible alternative to such a mad theoretical scenario.

Silly ass slippery slope and false equivalencies are part of every day life now.  So most people would point out the one in a million chance as the reason for the crusade in the first place.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on September 01, 2021, 11:33:39 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 01, 2021, 11:04:13 AM
Womens sports being created as a segregated field was less due to the lower physical capacity of women, and far more due to gender differences and the squickiness of men and women in varying states of undress getting sweaty and physical together.
These remain valid no matter whether its a cisgender or a transgender woman you're talking about. Having trans-women in mens sports goes against why womens sports exist in the first place.

Well then that is stupid and we should get rid of men's and women's sports. I have played sports with men and women for years and this has never once been an issue. And again if you just find the other sex's body disgusting and are irrationally unable to function around it, then why would it matter if the person in that body is a transman or a woman? Why are we honoring and enabling irrational bullshit around gender, by segregating them, while also demanding it not exist and we be inclusive in another area? Why is one irrationality valid and the other not valid?

I don't know though. It seems absurd to believe that WNBA players could easily make and play for NBA teams and make millions of dollars but are so disgusted by male bodies they would rather languish in a minor league? Likewise should NBA players be allowed to exclude legitimate competition because they are too grossed out by icky female bodies? But maybe that is not the reason and it is that women have a disadvantage.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on September 01, 2021, 11:39:55 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 01, 2021, 11:33:39 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 01, 2021, 11:04:13 AM
Womens sports being created as a segregated field was less due to the lower physical capacity of women, and far more due to gender differences and the squickiness of men and women in varying states of undress getting sweaty and physical together.
These remain valid no matter whether its a cisgender or a transgender woman you're talking about. Having trans-women in mens sports goes against why womens sports exist in the first place.

Well then that is stupid and we should get rid of men's and women's sports. I have played sports with men and women for years and this has never once been an issue. And again if you just find the other sex's body disgusting and are irrationally unable to function around it, then why would it matter if the person in that body is a transman or a woman? Why are we honoring and enabling irrational bullshit around gender, by segregating them, while also demanding it not exist and we be inclusive in another area? Why is one irrationality valid and the other not valid?

I don't know though. It seems absurd to believe that WNBA players could easily make and play for NBA teams and make millions of dollars but are so disgusted by male bodies they would rather languish in a minor league? Likewise should NBA players be allowed to exclude legitimate competition because they are too grossed out by icky female bodies? But maybe that is not the reason and it is that women have a disadvantage.
What on earth makes you think this? :blink:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on September 01, 2021, 11:41:14 AM
And I guess I should mention girls already play for boys sports in high schools all across the country. It is really only the elite sports we are talking about. The amateurs and lower level sports leagues have mixed genders already for a long time, because at that level a physical advantage is much less of a big deal. An athletic woman is still better than a non-athletic man. And not very many people in the leagues I played in all got freaked out about sweating with people with different bodies than them. But granted that is just my experience, to some they just won't play without strict body segregation I am sure. But I question if that number includes serious elite athletes.

All things being equal though, as they are at the elite levels, the XY bodied people have a big advantage.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on September 01, 2021, 11:42:19 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 01, 2021, 11:39:55 AM

What on earth makes you think this? :blink:

When I make a big long post discussing different things you need to be more specific about which part you think belongs on another planet.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on September 01, 2021, 11:44:49 AM
Oh and I guess I should say that female coaches and trainers and medical staff exist across men's sports. Nobody seems grossed out by that. So why not other players?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on September 01, 2021, 12:03:35 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 01, 2021, 11:42:19 AM
Quote from: Tyr on September 01, 2021, 11:39:55 AM

What on earth makes you think this? :blink:

When I make a big long post discussing different things you need to be more specific about which part you think belongs on another planet.
That WNBA players believe they could play in the NBA but they personally are offended by male bodies so don't.

Firstly of course this is a historic innovation. If sports were invented today I doubt this same restriction would apply.
Also rather than the players themselves it far more came from the powers that be, appointed moral guardians of Victorian society. Just look at how in the 20th century they then went onto clamp down on womens sports altogether. I was replying to your assertion of why womens sports actually exist, not why you think they should exist.
Secondly its focussing on a tiny fraction of the people who take part in sports, absolutely high end elites where fitness is maximised and differences in natural genetic makeup really make a difference and there's serious money on the line. This isn't most people's experience with sport on either front.

QuoteAnd I guess I should mention girls already play for boys sports in high schools all across the country. It is really only the elite sports we are talking about. The amateurs and lower level sports leagues have mixed genders already for a long time, because at that level a physical advantage is much less of a big deal. An athletic woman is still better than a non-athletic man. And not very many people in the leagues I played in all got freaked out about sweating with people with different bodies than them. But granted that is just my experience, to some they just won't play without strict body segregation I am sure. But I question if that number includes serious elite athletes.

All things being equal though, as they are at the elite levels, the XY bodied people have a big advantage.
Except we aren't.
Thats exactly my original point of why its such an annoying binary that gets presented.
Hard right transphobes and their useful idiots come in with a stupid theoretical about how a B list male sports person will just get a sex change then destroy the womens game hence all trans people should be completely banned from sports.
There's valid sports/science nerdery discussion to be had about what should be used to define a woman for the purposes of elite sport, quite where the line is drawn, etc....
But thats not what you see all the time about this issue, for instance in the poll results Sheilbh posted. Instead its all or nothing completely ban trans women from ever touching a ball (or running or...OK, I just wanted  to make a joke about them touching balls. It failed) or have zero regulations.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on September 01, 2021, 12:07:28 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 01, 2021, 11:41:14 AM
And I guess I should mention girls already play for boys sports in high schools all across the country. It is really only the elite sports we are talking about. The amateurs and lower level sports leagues have mixed genders already for a long time, because at that level a physical advantage is much less of a big deal. An athletic woman is still better than a non-athletic man. And not very many people in the leagues I played in all got freaked out about sweating with people with different bodies than them. But granted that is just my experience, to some they just won't play without strict body segregation I am sure. But I question if that number includes serious elite athletes.

All things being equal though, as they are at the elite levels, the XY bodied people have a big advantage.

So in my kids minor hockey girls play on boys teams all the time.  But there are also some all-girls teams out there too.

These kids are all pre-pubescent so physical advantage has nothing to do with it.  But socially some girls do prefer to just play with other girls, and share the locker room with other girls.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on September 01, 2021, 12:17:06 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 01, 2021, 12:03:35 PM
That WNBA players believe they could play in the NBA but they personally are offended by male bodies but don't.

Yeah I absolutely believe it is because they know they couldn't compete because they are at a physical disadvantage. But hey if I am wrong about that, I would be delighted. It would make this whole issue go away.

And if any of them DO think they could make it in the NBA or one of the men's basketball minor leagues instead I hope they get that opportunity.

QuoteExcept we aren't.
Hard right transphobes and their useful idiots come in with a stupid theoretical about how a B list male sports person will just get a sex change then destroy the womens game hence all trans people should be completely banned from sports.

Ok but that is a legitimate, not theoretical nor stupid, concern if we are talking about why we segregate sports to begin with. Of course transphobes just don't want transwomen to exist so of course they are going to poach a legitimate concern and then dishonestly use it.

QuoteBut thats not what you see all the time about this issue, for instance in the poll results Sheilbh posted. Instead its all or nothing completely ban trans women from ever touching a ball (or running or...OK, I just wanted  to make a joke about them touching balls. It failed) or have zero regulations.

Well that is what we often face with these issues. Obviously I want regulations if we are going to keep segregated sports. It should be based on your physical characteristics whether you play in XX or XY sports, not your gender because that doesn't make any sense. It looks like we are in complete agreement on that:

QuoteThere's valid sports/science nerdery discussion to be had about what should be used to define a woman for the purposes of elite sport, quite where the line is drawn, etc....

Totally agree. Except I probably wouldn't use the word "woman" in this context.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on September 01, 2021, 12:24:55 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 01, 2021, 12:17:06 PM

Ok but that is a legitimate, not theoretical nor stupid, concern if we are talking about why we segregate sports to begin with. Of course transphobes just don't want transwomen to exist so of course they are going to poach a legitimate concern and then dishonestly use it.
I disagree. Its a ridiculous concern that hasn't come anywhere close to happening.
The second hint of it does happen- then changing the rules will be a simple matter to stop it happening again. Nobody will be killed or anything serious in the process.
Just look at how quick they reacted to fix the rules with cisgender Caster Semenya due to her genetic advantage.
Just because something is theoretically possible in sport doesn't mean its a huge and really important political issue over and beyond people interested in sports to pre-emptively put a stop to it.

Quote
Well that is what we often face with these issues. Obviously I want regulations if we are going to keep segregated sports. It should be based on your physical characteristics whether you play in XX or XY sports, not your gender because that doesn't make any sense. It looks like we are complete agreement on that:
But physical characteristics are gender.
You can't expect amateur sports leagues to have full genetic testing and testosterone level analysis suites. If somebody looks like a woman, acts like a woman, identifies as a woman, is accepted as a woman....they're a woman. Let them play. Thats as far as things go.

Quote
Totally agree. Except I probably wouldn't use the word "woman" in this context.
What would you use then?
Female?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: garbon on September 01, 2021, 02:37:29 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 19, 2021, 02:36:55 AM
I don't see how sports is significantly different from every other part of society. If transwomen are women then the "separate but equal" attitude leaves a bad taste in the mouth. There has always been arguments put forward against equality, but THIS time they are correct? I don't see it.

If transwomen are women, then as soon as you internally accept that they are, the "problem" of having transwomen in women's sports disappears. In the words of En Vogue: free your mind, and the rest will follow.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: viper37 on September 01, 2021, 05:21:55 PM
Quote from: Valmy on September 01, 2021, 12:17:06 PM
Ok but that is a legitimate, not theoretical nor stupid, concern if we are talking about why we segregate sports to begin with. Of course transphobes just don't want transwomen to exist so of course they are going to poach a legitimate concern and then dishonestly use it.
I see the problem the other way: the woke and trans-activitsts crowd will label anyone who criticize their positions as transphobe, as a way to shut any kind of logical and scientifical discussion that wil contradict their point.

Kinda like the Talibans, pro-women and pro-science, as long as it does not contradict their vision of Islam.

QuoteWell that is what we often face with these issues. Obviously I want regulations if we are going to keep segregated sports. It should be based on your physical characteristics whether you play in XX or XY sports, not your gender because that doesn't make any sense. It looks like we are in complete agreement on that:
More on the level of performance you can offer.  The NHL does not ban women from joining a team.  Realistically, only one woman made it, as a goalie, for one game.  She couldn't compete with men of that caliber, even if she was a very decent goalie in LHJMQ, and later in the East Coast League, I think.

So, either we lower the physical standards required and ban physical play to integrate all women who want to play the NHL, or we keep it segregated: women's hockey and men's hockey, as with the IHF.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on September 01, 2021, 08:26:17 PM
Quote from: garbon on September 01, 2021, 02:37:29 PM
Quote from: The Brain on July 19, 2021, 02:36:55 AM
I don't see how sports is significantly different from every other part of society. If transwomen are women then the "separate but equal" attitude leaves a bad taste in the mouth. There has always been arguments put forward against equality, but THIS time they are correct? I don't see it.

If transwomen are women, then as soon as you internally accept that they are, the "problem" of having transwomen in women's sports disappears. In the words of En Vogue: free your mind, and the rest will follow.

Sports is significantly different because it is one of the few areas in society that is segregated for the purposes of fair competition. Name me another area where that is true. And even if you can I do think that makes it significantly different from the rest of society. That is not how society normally works, it is not typically a physical competition.

I accept that trans-women are women. But how does that make the problem disappear? In fact it introduces the problem. If women are not being segregated because of fairness of competition but because of gender identity than continuing to segregate them makes no sense from a competitive point of view, in fact it creates the separate but equal problem that puts bad taste in mouths. If instead we have segregated sport for reasons of physical difference and fairness then clearly they should not be called women's sports and if we are to continue segregation it should be on that basis, on the basis of fairness not identity.

Besides what about gender-fluid people? Surely they should be competing based on their physical characteristics as there are no "gender-fluid" sports.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on September 01, 2021, 09:48:05 PM
How about instead of men's and women's teams, you have one set of teams that are only for those with a Y chromosome, and the other for those without a Y chromosome?

Men and women with a Y chromosome in one set, men and women without one in the other.

Problem: solved?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Valmy on September 01, 2021, 09:59:06 PM
Quote from: Malthus on September 01, 2021, 09:48:05 PM
How about instead of men's and women's teams, you have one set of teams that are only for those with a Y chromosome, and the other for those without a Y chromosome?

Men and women with a Y chromosome in one set, men and women without one in the other.

Problem: solved?

I am no expert on how all this chromosome business works but theoretically I think something like that would solve the problem.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Jacob on September 02, 2021, 01:40:23 AM
Quote from: Valmy on September 01, 2021, 09:59:06 PM
I am no expert on how all this chromosome business works but theoretically I think something like that would solve the problem.

All it would require is that people start thinking of "has Y chromosome" and "does not have Y chromosome" as important signifiers that are more socially relevant than "male" and "female".

I'm thinking that it might be a little while before that catches on, in spite of how logical it is.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on September 02, 2021, 02:14:17 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 01, 2021, 09:48:05 PM
How about instead of men's and women's teams, you have one set of teams that are only for those with a Y chromosome, and the other for those without a Y chromosome?

Men and women with a Y chromosome in one set, men and women without one in the other.

Problem: solved?
No. It relies on the misconception sex is a simple binary based purely on xx/xy.
Cisgender xy women are more plentiful than many realise.
Then there's various other chromosome patterns. Not all of which automatically lead to severe disabilities.

Certainly it's curious with all the techniques professional sports have tried to decide if someone is a woman or not they haven't tried this one.
It could just be down to difficulty? Which is another issue...
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: viper37 on September 02, 2021, 09:10:00 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 01, 2021, 09:48:05 PM
How about instead of men's and women's teams, you have one set of teams that are only for those with a Y chromosome, and the other for those without a Y chromosome?

Men and women with a Y chromosome in one set, men and women without one in the other.

Problem: solved?
It's how it's done in the Olympics, I think.  And it also created problem there, for some runners mainly.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sheilbh on September 12, 2021, 05:38:37 PM
More of the strange politics of trans rights in the UK.

The UK trans legislation as in 2004 and at the time considered ground-breaking internationally. It's now seen as out of date and behind countries like Argentina, Ireland and Spain. A lot of the issues around women's spaces etc are already protected under equalities legislation and a lot of the fear around self-ID is strange because the current law operates on the basis of self-ID (in fact it's mandatory to get a gender recognition certificate).

Anyway - the latest strange bedfellows side of things. The Labour Party has launched an investigation into the chair of Young Labour over anti-TERF tweets she made - it's worth noting that there's a wider problem with Young Labour (that's always existed) - basically it boils down to are they the youth wing of the Labour Party who exist to help Labour get elected, or are they a sort of affiliated group for young socialists. At the minute they're very in the latter camp and going in a very different direction to Labour on things like China, Cuba and Israel-Palestine. They're basically a little bit tankie and full of self-proclaimed communists at the minute which doesn't sit well with a parliamentary social democrat party. But apparently it's always been an issue, back in the 60s and 70s it was apparently full of Trots and anarchists who mainly liked lengthy  meetings to debate how precisely the USSR was a deviant state as opposed to, say, canvassing or campaigining for local Labour candidates :lol:

On the other hand the Labour MP for Canterbury has got into a big fight with the local Tory council leader. The Tory council leader is gay and a strong supporter of trans rights - it's worth remembering the proposed amendments to the Gender Recognition Act are from 2016-7 when the Tories had a majority, are based on recommendations from a Tory chaired committee and were supported by Theresa May's government. The Labour MP, Rosie Duffield, is a "gender critical" feminist - she's also a former victim of domestic violence who spent some time on a shelter and speaks particularly strongly on that issue. Anyway due to the online Twitter fight she had with the local council leader, she's received threats and will now have police security at Labour conference later this month which is not great.

But as I say it's not dividing on clear party lines as it seems to in the US and there is a far more genuine fight within the left - both in England (Labour and Greens) and Scotland (SNP - broadly) over this issue. I don't know why it's gone that way here but it's almost not really like a "culture war" issue it is in the US but something different.

Edit: And another example the Scottish government (SNP and Scottish Greens) are proposing a reform to the Gender Recognition Act which is a bit like that proposed in England. The Scottish Greens have now issued a public statement condemning the English and Welsh Greens (I think the women's group) as transphobic for their response to the consultation on the reforms.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on September 13, 2021, 03:50:14 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 02, 2021, 02:14:17 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 01, 2021, 09:48:05 PM
How about instead of men's and women's teams, you have one set of teams that are only for those with a Y chromosome, and the other for those without a Y chromosome?

Men and women with a Y chromosome in one set, men and women without one in the other.

Problem: solved?
No. It relies on the misconception sex is a simple binary based purely on xx/xy.
Cisgender xy women are more plentiful than many realise.
Then there's various other chromosome patterns. Not all of which automatically lead to severe disabilities.

Certainly it's curious with all the techniques professional sports have tried to decide if someone is a woman or not they haven't tried this one.
It could just be down to difficulty? Which is another issue...

The issue is that people with a Y chromosome have certain physical advantages in playing sports, which make it unfair if they complete with any other chromosomal arrangement.

It makes sense therefore to say such people may not compete on the same playing field with those who lack the y chromosome (though presumably anyone could, if they do wished, compete with them).

Not seeing why this is problematic. Solves the fraught issue of telling people they aren't "real men" or "real women", by unpinning the issue from gender.

There may well be lots of different chromosomal patterns, but that isn't relevant. Anyone can play on the Y chromosome team, if they want to - but those with a Y chromosome must do so, because the presence of a Y chromosome is strongly correlated to certain physical advantages in sports.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on September 13, 2021, 04:27:24 PM
Labour and terfs- the thing that really annoys me about it, more even than these hypocritical terfs existence, is that labour will still be branded as being all about the Internets vision of radical left wing students aggressively enforcing trans superiority.
All the bad sides of having them spread their hate whilst still getting the culture war bollocks.

Quote from: Malthus on September 13, 2021, 03:50:14 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 02, 2021, 02:14:17 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 01, 2021, 09:48:05 PM
How about instead of men's and women's teams, you have one set of teams that are only for those with a Y chromosome, and the other for those without a Y chromosome?

Men and women with a Y chromosome in one set, men and women without one in the other.

Problem: solved?
No. It relies on the misconception sex is a simple binary based purely on xx/xy.
Cisgender xy women are more plentiful than many realise.
Then there's various other chromosome patterns. Not all of which automatically lead to severe disabilities.

Certainly it's curious with all the techniques professional sports have tried to decide if someone is a woman or not they haven't tried this one.
It could just be down to difficulty? Which is another issue...

The issue is that people with a Y chromosome have certain physical advantages in playing sports, which make it unfair if they complete with any other chromosomal arrangement.

It makes sense therefore to say such people may not compete on the same playing field with those who lack the y chromosome (though presumably anyone could, if they do wished, compete with them).

Not seeing why this is problematic. Solves the fraught issue of telling people they aren't "real men" or "real women", by unpinning the issue from gender.

There may well be lots of different chromosomal patterns, but that isn't relevant. Anyone can play on the Y chromosome team, if they want to - but those with a Y chromosome must do so, because the presence of a Y chromosome is strongly correlated to certain physical advantages in sports.

And how do you propose to enforce this?
Every single girl who wants to get involved in anything remotely sporty undergoes genetic testing to validate she doesn't have a y chromosome?
It just sounds monstrously expensive and impractical. Not to mention potentially intrusive and a complete nightmare for those who have privacy concerns on genetic testing.
The question stands as to why professional athletics, despite struggling for decades with defining women, haven't tried this one?
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 13, 2021, 04:32:39 PM
I was unaware of professional women's sports struggling for decades to define women.  I'm only aware of the Renee Richards controversy.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on September 13, 2021, 04:33:48 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 13, 2021, 04:32:39 PM
I was unaware of professional women's sports struggling for decades to define women.  I'm only aware of the Renee Richards controversy.

I think I posted this already. Worth a watch. Pretty interesting.

https://youtu.be/MiCftTLUzCI
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Barrister on September 13, 2021, 04:40:04 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on September 13, 2021, 04:32:39 PM
I was unaware of professional women's sports struggling for decades to define women.  I'm only aware of the Renee Richards controversy.

There were reports / suspicions that various eastern block female athletes were actually men, or at least were using testosterone.  The East Germans were particularly suspected.  They did gender testing at the olympics for many years.  At first they just had the athletes show their genitals, but then moved on to blood tests.

Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Admiral Yi on September 13, 2021, 04:59:17 PM
OK, so not really about professional women's sports.  :)

And all that Olympics stuff is about intersex athletes, which is not the same thing as transgender.  Of course intersex is going to be tricky.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Malthus on September 13, 2021, 05:42:22 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 13, 2021, 04:27:24 PM
Labour and terfs- the thing that really annoys me about it, more even than these hypocritical terfs existence, is that labour will still be branded as being all about the Internets vision of radical left wing students aggressively enforcing trans superiority.
All the bad sides of having them spread their hate whilst still getting the culture war bollocks.

Quote from: Malthus on September 13, 2021, 03:50:14 PM
Quote from: Tyr on September 02, 2021, 02:14:17 AM
Quote from: Malthus on September 01, 2021, 09:48:05 PM
How about instead of men's and women's teams, you have one set of teams that are only for those with a Y chromosome, and the other for those without a Y chromosome?

Men and women with a Y chromosome in one set, men and women without one in the other.

Problem: solved?
No. It relies on the misconception sex is a simple binary based purely on xx/xy.
Cisgender xy women are more plentiful than many realise.
Then there's various other chromosome patterns. Not all of which automatically lead to severe disabilities.

Certainly it's curious with all the techniques professional sports have tried to decide if someone is a woman or not they haven't tried this one.
It could just be down to difficulty? Which is another issue...

The issue is that people with a Y chromosome have certain physical advantages in playing sports, which make it unfair if they complete with any other chromosomal arrangement.

It makes sense therefore to say such people may not compete on the same playing field with those who lack the y chromosome (though presumably anyone could, if they do wished, compete with them).

Not seeing why this is problematic. Solves the fraught issue of telling people they aren't "real men" or "real women", by unpinning the issue from gender.

There may well be lots of different chromosomal patterns, but that isn't relevant. Anyone can play on the Y chromosome team, if they want to - but those with a Y chromosome must do so, because the presence of a Y chromosome is strongly correlated to certain physical advantages in sports.

And how do you propose to enforce this?
Every single girl who wants to get involved in anything remotely sporty undergoes genetic testing to validate she doesn't have a y chromosome?
It just sounds monstrously expensive and impractical. Not to mention potentially intrusive and a complete nightmare for those who have privacy concerns on genetic testing.
The question stands as to why professional athletics, despite struggling for decades with defining women, haven't tried this one?

For the vast majority of professional athletes, it will not be necessary to test, because they already know whether they have a Y chromosome or not.

Really it simply deals with the issue of those who identify as different from the sex they were born with, or the extremely rare cases of those for whom there is some doubt.

Point is that it provides a sound scientific basis for divorcing the idea of sex and gender from performance. No nightmares of impracticality or invasive-ness required. Point is that those who are now female but who have a Y chromosome (and you can be sure they know it without the necessity of testing) compete with their Y chromosome counterparts, even though they are women and most other Y chromosome people are men.

This makes sense, because the important thing from  performance point of view is the average advantages that chromosome have them for performance of sports, not the state of their genitalia.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Sophie Scholl on September 13, 2021, 11:36:16 PM
I feel like a lot of you have zero idea how much months of hormone treatments do to change a person's body and base strength level. Or how hormone blockers will prevent any "advantage" for younger athletes. Also, why is the trans discussion like 99.9% focused on trans femme folks when there are also trans masc and non-binary trans people, too. The obsession with trans femme people whenever trans people are discussed speaks a lot more about those framing the arguments than those whose very existence and equality is being debated. This discussion has a very "Feminism Panel With No Women On It" feel to it.  <_<
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Syt on September 13, 2021, 11:42:48 PM
Quote from: Benedict Arnold on September 13, 2021, 11:36:16 PM
I feel like a lot of you have zero idea how much months of hormone treatments do to change a person's body and base strength level. Or how hormone blockers will prevent any "advantage" for younger athletes. Also, why is the trans discussion like 99.9% focused on trans femme folks when there are also trans masc and non-binary trans people, too. The obsession with trans femme people whenever trans people are discussed speaks a lot more about those framing the arguments than those whose very existence and equality is being debated. This discussion has a very "Feminism Panel With No Women On It" feel to it.  <_<

:yes:
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Eddie Teach on September 14, 2021, 12:19:28 AM
Nobody cares about trans-men in sports because they don't exist, to our knowledge.
Title: Re: [Gay] Gay News from Around the Gay World That is Gay
Post by: Josquius on September 14, 2021, 01:57:04 AM