US Navy destroyer USS Fitzgerald 'flooding' after container ship collision (https://ca.news.yahoo.com/us-navy-destroyer-collides-japanese-boat-205600471.html)
Quote
At least three compartments of the USS Fitzgerald are reported to have flooded after the collision with the Philippine vessel ACX Crystal 56 miles southwest of Yokosuka.
Cmdr. Bryce Benson, Fitzgerald's commanding officer, was evacuated from the ship and taken to US Naval Hospital in Yokosuka where he is in a stable condition.
Two more sailors have also been taken by helicopter to hospital for what the US 7th Fleet said were "lacerations and bruises".
out of respect for the missing 7 sailors, I shall not make any jokes regarding Imperial Star Destroyers collinding with one anoter.
Benson's Navy career is over.
most likely. I'm curious to see how this could happen. it was a container freighter, it should have been spotted by the ship's radar long before they couldn't avoid it.
Quote from: viper37 on June 16, 2017, 09:32:18 PM
it was a container freighter, it should have been spotted by the ship's radar long before they couldn't avoid it.
Freightes are pretty damn big. They should have seen it with their eyeballs.
Quote from: viper37 on June 16, 2017, 09:32:18 PM
most likely. I'm curious to see how this could happen. it was a container freighter, it should have been spotted by the ship's radar long before they couldn't avoid it.
Rules of the Road. If you are the Privileged Vessel, you CANNOT change course or speed to avoid a collision - but if the other ship's conn is being manned by Iron Mike, things can get hairy very quickly.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 16, 2017, 10:53:06 PM
Freightes are pretty damn big. They should have seen it with their eyeballs.
(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.quickmeme.com%2Fimg%2F27%2F2755c372605e9350f11603f612b90b1d23af2f4126afcd32ef9c596c17463515.jpg&hash=0b9f3be6930563d5bd1db8dccfe6ca6e41d5a302)
It's why I'm higher ranked than Cmdr. Benson :yes:
WTF?
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 16, 2017, 11:12:22 PM
It's why I'm higher ranked than Cmdr. Benson :yes:
Nah, you're just an army captain.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 16, 2017, 10:53:06 PM
Freightes are pretty damn big. They should have seen it with their eyeballs.
what I meant, is long before they could see it on a trajectory that would likely result in a collision course, they should have spotted there was a danger and take appropriate measures.
Quote
Rules of the Road. If you are the Privileged Vessel, you CANNOT change course or speed to avoid a collision - but if the other ship's conn is being manned by Iron Mike, things can get hairy very quickly.
You mean the US Destroyer could likely not change course or speed to avoid the freighter when it looks likely it will be hit by some freighter?
How "fixed" are these rules? Are they like absolute rules, or more like guidelines?
:(
I'd like to think that Western naval vessels have fewer instances of Costa Concordia style captaining than civilian ships, though they did run Missouri aground. :hmm:
Command of a destroyer just opened.
[quote ]
How "fixed" are these rules? Are they like absolute rules, or more like guidelines?
[/quote]I think they're pretty fixed. The rule - as I learnt it growing up sailing - is that both boats should turn starboard when there's a risk of collision. Boats that are catching up veer for the slower ship until completely clear.
The damage is on the starboard side and shouldn't be if they both veered according to the rules and it doesn't look like its been hit from behind.
Motorboats often mistake the speed of sailboats, they're faster than you think, so I've been quite a few situations with a faster boat trying to squeeze past my bow. Possibly the destroyer made the same mistake in how fast that freighter was going.
Quote from: The Brain on June 17, 2017, 02:00:01 AM
:(
I'd like to think that Western naval vessels have fewer instances of Costa Concordia style captaining than civilian ships, though they did run Missouri aground. :hmm:
Or look up the Honda Point Disaster.
Quote from: dps on June 17, 2017, 06:23:12 AM
Quote from: The Brain on June 17, 2017, 02:00:01 AM
:(
I'd like to think that Western naval vessels have fewer instances of Costa Concordia style captaining than civilian ships, though they did run Missouri aground. :hmm:
Or look up the Honda Point Disaster.
:(
I had never heard of that one. Thank you!
Pretty sure the law of gross tonnage says the destroyer should give way.
Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on June 17, 2017, 10:02:02 AM
Pretty sure the law of gross tonnage says the destroyer should give way.
katmai The Lawgiver? :yeahright:
Quote from: viper37 on June 17, 2017, 12:33:11 AM
what I meant, is long before they could see it on a trajectory that would likely result in a collision course, they should have spotted there was a danger and take appropriate measures.
Ships change course at sea. Without further information, we can't tell when the ships were on a collision course.
QuoteYou mean the US Destroyer could likely not change course or speed to avoid the freighter when it looks likely it will be hit by some freighter?
How "fixed" are these rules? Are they like absolute rules, or more like guidelines?
It means precisely that, when a privileged vessel perceives that there is a danger of collision, it cannot change course or speed. The burdened vessel must do that, and it must be able to count on the privileged vessel standing on it's course and speed, else the burdened vessel's maneuvers will otherwise be incorrect and maybe even worsen the danger.
Those rules are very fixed. If a privileged vessel maneuvers and there is a collision, the collision is 100% the privileged vessel's fault.
The rule disappears when the privileged vessel determines that it is
in extremis; that is, it determines that both vessels must maneuver to avoid collision. It sounds 5 short blasts of the ship's whistle* and turns to starboard, slows, or both. It cannot turn to port and it cannot speed up.
The fact that the USS Fitzgerald was hit on its starboard side would tend to indicate it was the giveway vessel, and thus at fault. I can't imagine the circumstances in which a US Navy ship steaming independently would be the giveway vessel and still collide.
*note to Officers of the Deck: if 5 shorts blasts is what wakes your skipper up, your career is over. In fact, if he is not standing at your elbow when you say "Bosun's Mate of the Watch, 5 short blasts," your career is over.
that makes it clearer. Thank you very much Grumbler :)
Quote from: grumbler on June 17, 2017, 06:45:38 PM
*note to Officers of the Deck: if 5 shorts blasts is what wakes your skipper up, your career is over. In fact, if he is not standing at your elbow when you say "Bosun's Mate of the Watch, 5 short blasts," your career is over.
I don't think any are reading this.
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 18, 2017, 05:31:39 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 17, 2017, 06:45:38 PM
*note to Officers of the Deck: if 5 shorts blasts is what wakes your skipper up, your career is over. In fact, if he is not standing at your elbow when you say "Bosun's Mate of the Watch, 5 short blasts," your career is over.
I don't think any are reading this.
Captain Ed is out back on the poop deck. MASTER AND COMMODE: THE FAR SIDE OF THE SHITTER
Quote from: grumbler on June 17, 2017, 06:45:38 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 17, 2017, 12:33:11 AM
what I meant, is long before they could see it on a trajectory that would likely result in a collision course, they should have spotted there was a danger and take appropriate measures.
Ships change course at sea. Without further information, we can't tell when the ships were on a collision course.
QuoteYou mean the US Destroyer could likely not change course or speed to avoid the freighter when it looks likely it will be hit by some freighter?
How "fixed" are these rules? Are they like absolute rules, or more like guidelines?
It means precisely that, when a privileged vessel perceives that there is a danger of collision, it cannot change course or speed. The burdened vessel must do that, and it must be able to count on the privileged vessel standing on it's course and speed, else the burdened vessel's maneuvers will otherwise be incorrect and maybe even worsen the danger.
Those rules are very fixed. If a privileged vessel maneuvers and there is a collision, the collision is 100% the privileged vessel's fault.
The rule disappears when the privileged vessel determines that it is in extremis; that is, it determines that both vessels must maneuver to avoid collision. It sounds 5 short blasts of the ship's whistle* and turns to starboard, slows, or both. It cannot turn to port and it cannot speed up.
The fact that the USS Fitzgerald was hit on its starboard side would tend to indicate it was the giveway vessel, and thus at fault. I can't imagine the circumstances in which a US Navy ship steaming independently would be the giveway vessel and still collide.
*note to Officers of the Deck: if 5 shorts blasts is what wakes your skipper up, your career is over. In fact, if he is not standing at your elbow when you say "Bosun's Mate of the Watch, 5 short blasts," your career is over.
Very interesting. What determines the privileged and giveaway vessel?
Quote from: sbr on June 18, 2017, 06:02:52 PM
Very interesting. What determines the privileged and giveaway vessel?
Mentioned further up in the thread, just double-checked: the larger vessel. Which makes sense, since it would have a harder time maneuvering anyway.
Quote from: sbr on June 18, 2017, 06:02:52 PM
Very interesting. What determines the privileged and giveaway vessel?
The vessel to starboard, or ahead, is the privileged vessel. Size has nothing to do with it, unless in a channel where ships restricted in their ability to maneuver have the right of way (and they have to fly a symbol indicating that).
None of this sounds very good at all for the Fitzgerald.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-navy-asia-exclusive-idUSKBN19H13C
QuoteExclusive: U.S. warship stayed on deadly collision course despite warning - container ship captain
A U.S. warship struck by a container vessel in Japanese waters failed to respond to warning signals or take evasive action before a collision that killed seven of its crew, according to a report of the incident by the Philippine cargo ship's captain.
Multiple U.S. and Japanese investigations are under way into how the guided missile destroyer USS Fitzgerald and the much larger ACX Crystal container ship collided in clear weather south of Tokyo Bay in the early hours of June 17.
In the first detailed account from one of those directly involved, the cargo ship's captain said the ACX Crystal had signaled with flashing lights after the Fitzgerald "suddenly" steamed on to a course to cross its path.
The container ship steered hard to starboard (right) to avoid the warship, but hit the Fitzgerald 10 minutes later at 1:30 a.m., according to a copy of Captain Ronald Advincula's report to Japanese ship owner Dainichi Investment Corporation that was seen by Reuters.
The U.S. Navy declined to comment and Reuters was not able to independently verify the account.
The collision tore a gash below the Fitzgerald's waterline, killing seven sailors in what was the greatest loss of life on a U.S. Navy vessel since the USS Cole was bombed in Yemen's Aden harbor in 2000.
Those who died were in their berthing compartments, while the Fitzgerald's commander was injured in his cabin, suggesting that no alarm warning of an imminent collision was sounded.
A spokesman for the U.S. Navy's Seventh Fleet in Yokosuka, the Fitzgerald's home port, said he was unable to comment on an ongoing investigation.
The incident has spurred six investigations, including two internal hearings by the U.S. Navy and a probe by the United States Coast Guard (USCG) on behalf of the National Transportation Safety Board. The Japan Transport Safety Board, the JCG and the Philippines government are also conducting separate investigations.
Spokesmen from the Japan Coast Guard (JCG), U.S. Coast Guard and ship owner, Dainichi Invest, also declined to comment. Reuters was not able to contact Advincula, who was no longer in Japan.
The investigations will examine witness testimony and electronic data to determine how a naval destroyer fitted with sophisticated radar could be struck by a vessel more than three times its size.
Another focus of the probes has been the length of time it took the ACX Crystal to report the collision. The JCG says it was first notified at 2:25 a.m., nearly an hour after the accident.
In his report, the ACX Crystal's captain said there was "confusion" on his ship's bridge, and that it turned around and returned to the collision site after continuing for 6 nautical miles (11 km).
Shipping data in Thomson Reuters Eikon shows that the ACX Crystal, chartered by Japan's Nippon Yusen KK (9101.T), made a complete U-turn between 12:58 a.m. and 2:46 a.m.
(Reporting by Tim Kelly; Additional reporting by Nobuhiro Kubo; Editing by Alex Richardson)
Link to an article which has bridge audio from the USS Porter collision with a Japanese supertanker and its 160,000 tons in the Strait of Hormuz, you can hear the 5 blasts referenced earlier--
https://pilotonline.com/news/military/audio-confusion-reigned-before-destroyer-s-collision/article_c7472be8-efcb-5763-93bb-aab66d820175.html
grumbler, you should get a kick out of this one if you've never heard it before--
OOD: "We should turn."
Captain: "Meh."
Cost: $50+ million in repairs and one captain's career. Guess which one got finished first.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 18, 2017, 09:56:57 AM
Quote from: Eddie Teach on June 18, 2017, 05:31:39 AM
Quote from: grumbler on June 17, 2017, 06:45:38 PM
*note to Officers of the Deck: if 5 shorts blasts is what wakes your skipper up, your career is over. In fact, if he is not standing at your elbow when you say "Bosun's Mate of the Watch, 5 short blasts," your career is over.
I don't think any are reading this.
Captain Ed is out back on the poop deck. MASTER AND COMMODE: THE FAR SIDE OF THE SHITTER
You can be my best boy. I like buggery.
Quote from: CountDeMoney on June 26, 2017, 06:36:50 PM
Link to an article which has bridge audio from the USS Porter collision with a Japanese supertanker and its 160,000 tons in the Strait of Hormuz, you can hear the 5 blasts referenced earlier--
https://pilotonline.com/news/military/audio-confusion-reigned-before-destroyer-s-collision/article_c7472be8-efcb-5763-93bb-aab66d820175.html
grumbler, you should get a kick out of this one if you've never heard it before--
OOD: "We should turn."
Captain: "Meh."
Cost: $50+ million in repairs and one captain's career. Guess which one got finished first.
I hadn't heard that one before.
"Confusion reigned before destroyer's collision" has been the death knell of a number of sailors. Never, never, ever turn to port, unless you want your career to end with the guilt of murdering shipmates.
I will hand it to the USN; when it comes to accountability, they do not fuck around.
QuoteTop Two Officers on Navy Ship in Deadly Collision Off Japan to Be Relieved of Duties
By ERIC SCHMITT
AUG. 17, 2017
The Failing New York Times
WASHINGTON — About a dozen American sailors aboard a destroyer during a deadly collision off the coast of Japan in June will be punished for their roles in the accident, including the two top officers, who will be relieved of duty, a senior Navy official said Thursday.
The disciplinary measures were announced as the Navy released a harrowing preliminary report on the collision between the American destroyer Fitzgerald and a freighter that killed seven people in one of the Navy's deadliest accidents in years.
The ship's captain, Cmdr. Bryce Benson; his second-in-command; the senior enlisted sailor and all who were on watch that night will face career-killing administrative punishments that are expected to be doled out on Friday by the head of the Navy's Seventh Fleet in Japan, Vice Adm. Joseph P. Aucoin.
Dozens of sailors who were rocked from their slumber, the report said, raced in the dark to escape from their flooding quarters. Within 90 seconds, seawater rushing through a gaping hole in starboard hull was at first waist-high, then neck-high as sailors pushed aside mattresses, wall lockers and other floating debris to clamber up a ladder to safety. The last sailor pulled from the chaos was underwater when his shipmates yanked him up.
The freighter crashed directly into Commander Benson's stateroom, ripping open a huge hole and trapping him inside. It took five sailors, using a sledgehammer and kettlebell, 25 minutes to break down the door to his cabin to rescue the captain, who was seriously injured and hanging from the side of the ship.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/world/asia/fitzgerald-collision-investigation.html
Redacted preliminary report link below: some hardcore heroism, as per Navy SOP
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/17/world/asia/document-navy-report-on-uss-fitzgerald.html
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/08/18/us/18dc-navy2/18dc-navy2-master675.jpg)
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 17, 2017, 08:52:48 PM
I will hand it to the USN; when it comes to accountability, they do not fuck around.
QuoteTop Two Officers on Navy Ship in Deadly Collision Off Japan to Be Relieved of Duties
By ERIC SCHMITT
AUG. 17, 2017
The Failing New York Times
WASHINGTON — About a dozen American sailors aboard a destroyer during a deadly collision off the coast of Japan in June will be punished for their roles in the accident, including the two top officers, who will be relieved of duty, a senior Navy official said Thursday.
The disciplinary measures were announced as the Navy released a harrowing preliminary report on the collision between the American destroyer Fitzgerald and a freighter that killed seven people in one of the Navy's deadliest accidents in years.
The ship's captain, Cmdr. Bryce Benson; his second-in-command; the senior enlisted sailor and all who were on watch that night will face career-killing administrative punishments that are expected to be doled out on Friday by the head of the Navy's Seventh Fleet in Japan, Vice Adm. Joseph P. Aucoin.
Dozens of sailors who were rocked from their slumber, the report said, raced in the dark to escape from their flooding quarters. Within 90 seconds, seawater rushing through a gaping hole in starboard hull was at first waist-high, then neck-high as sailors pushed aside mattresses, wall lockers and other floating debris to clamber up a ladder to safety. The last sailor pulled from the chaos was underwater when his shipmates yanked him up.
The freighter crashed directly into Commander Benson's stateroom, ripping open a huge hole and trapping him inside. It took five sailors, using a sledgehammer and kettlebell, 25 minutes to break down the door to his cabin to rescue the captain, who was seriously injured and hanging from the side of the ship.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/17/world/asia/fitzgerald-collision-investigation.html
Redacted preliminary report link below: some hardcore heroism, as per Navy SOP
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/17/world/asia/document-navy-report-on-uss-fitzgerald.html
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/08/18/us/18dc-navy2/18dc-navy2-master675.jpg)
they don't seem to establish an official cause of the accident, or did I miss it?
Preliminary report is preliminary. So no, you didn't miss it.
Was probably buried under viper88's copy of Mien Kampf.
Quote from: grumbler on June 16, 2017, 10:53:45 PM
Quote from: viper37 on June 16, 2017, 09:32:18 PM
most likely. I'm curious to see how this could happen. it was a container freighter, it should have been spotted by the ship's radar long before they couldn't avoid it.
Rules of the Road. If you are the Privileged Vessel, you CANNOT change course or speed to avoid a collision - but if the other ship's conn is being manned by Iron Mike, things can get hairy very quickly.
https://youtu.be/sYsdUgEgJrY
:unsure:
Quote from: sbr on August 17, 2017, 11:05:29 PM
Was probably buried under viper88's copy of Mien Kampf.
I think the word mien is underused by society. :)
Iron Mike :wub:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PVOsmGnD1o
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 17, 2017, 08:52:48 PM
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/08/18/us/18dc-navy2/18dc-navy2-master675.jpg)
Damn.
Quote from: Tyr on August 18, 2017, 01:57:15 AM
https://youtu.be/sYsdUgEgJrY
:unsure%
The first time I heard that "true story" it was Noah's Ark that was supposed to change course. :D
Quote from: sbr on August 17, 2017, 11:05:29 PM
Was probably buried under viper88's copy of Mien Kampf.
what's your problem Stalin? there's no more nazis to kill so now you're targeting the mainstream right? :)
When you collide with a ship and your CO is still in his sea cabin, you may be facing jail time. That's as derelict as duty gets. Not only do you fuck up, but you fail to call the guy who could maybe unfuck things.
The CO and XO are ruined because they allowed such a fuckup to take the watch.
Quote from: grumbler on August 18, 2017, 07:06:06 AM
Quote from: Tyr on August 18, 2017, 01:57:15 AM
https://youtu.be/sYsdUgEgJrY
:unsure%
The first time I heard that "true story" it was Noah's Ark that was supposed to change course. :D
Did you manage to avoid the collision with the Ark?
Quote from: grumbler on August 18, 2017, 09:56:06 AM
When you collide with a ship and your CO is still in his sea cabin, you may be facing jail time. That's as derelict as duty gets. Not only do you fuck up, but you fail to call the guy who could maybe unfuck things.
Wonder what happened... did the guy think there was no problem? Did he realize there was a problem, but figure he'd get out of it himself so he wouldn't look bad?
QuoteThe CO and XO are ruined because they allowed such a fuckup to take the watch.
A bit harsh, but a sound principle of management. They're ultimately the responsible parties.
Grumbler remembers when his commander fucked up. Off Cape Bon when the Vandal fleet run amok the Roman transports.
Quote from: Ed Anger on August 18, 2017, 08:24:54 PM
Grumbler remembers when his commander fucked up. Off Cape Bon when the Vandal fleet run amok the Roman transports.
He dropped his drumstick on the slave deck. Whole ship missed a beat, turned left.
Quote from: grumbler on August 18, 2017, 09:56:06 AM
The CO and XO are ruined because they allowed such a fuckup to take the watch.
I was reading a history of the US PAcific War focusing on Nimitz and the command at the top, and how they made the decisions about how, when, where, and with what to fight the Japanese.
One thing I thought was interesting what how quick they were, and how willing they were, to just straight up fire commanders who did not perform, regardless of whether or not there was truly real evidence that the fault was with commander.
Meaning, "Your job was XYZ. XYZ did not get done, you're gone". The justification was that this was war, and the men serving under commanders deserved to have the best possible commanders, and command is a privilege - therefore, the careers or feelings of commanders was not a particularly relevant factor in the equation.
I think that is something that civilians just don't get, and maybe even non-wartime military people for that matter. "Fair" just isn't that important. Now, it may be the case that you need to give someone another chance because to NOT do so may not be the best choice for the service, but even that is not because it is "fair".
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to distinguish between the incompetent and the merely unlucky."
Curtis LeMay. :wub:
Quote from: The Brain on August 19, 2017, 08:23:56 PM
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to distinguish between the incompetent and the merely unlucky."
Curtis LeMay. :wub:
We should put some statues up to that guy...
USS John S. McCain has apparently collided with a merchant ship in the Malacca Strait. Initial reports talk about damage to the port side.
Quote from: Iormlund on August 20, 2017, 07:12:21 PM
USS John S. McCain has apparently collided with a merchant ship in the Malacca Strait. Initial reports talk about damage to the port side.
Whose bending gps?
Quote from: Iormlund on August 20, 2017, 07:12:21 PM
USS John S. McCain has apparently collided with a merchant ship in the Malacca Strait. Initial reports talk about damage to the port side.
I fucking hated passing through the Straits of Malacca. Had career-ending written all over it. So many fucking ships! You basically had to ignore ships more than 10,000 yards away because you couldn't attend to them and avoid the closer ones at the same time. And the channel is long. The A-team basically stands a ten-hour watch.
Quote from: mongers on August 20, 2017, 07:36:10 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on August 20, 2017, 07:12:21 PM
USS John S. McCain has apparently collided with a merchant ship in the Malacca Strait. Initial reports talk about damage to the port side.
Whose bending gps?
Gerbil castling blueberrys?
Quote from: grumbler on August 20, 2017, 07:52:50 PM
Quote from: Iormlund on August 20, 2017, 07:12:21 PM
USS John S. McCain has apparently collided with a merchant ship in the Malacca Strait. Initial reports talk about damage to the port side.
I fucking hated passing through the Straits of Malacca. Had career-ending written all over it. So many fucking ships! You basically had to ignore ships more than 10,000 yards away because you couldn't attend to them and avoid the closer ones at the same time. And the channel is long. The A-team basically stands a ten-hour watch.
Even Murdock?
Ten sailors missing according to nbc. Also, this gem
QuoteResponding to a shouted question from a reporter about the incident on Sunday, President Donald Trump said: "That's too bad."
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 20, 2017, 10:05:16 PM
Ten sailors missing according to nbc. Also, this gem
QuoteResponding to a shouted question from a reporter about the incident on Sunday, President Donald Trump said: "That's too bad."
His hero wasn't too broken up about his naval vessels sinking, so he's probably just trying to imitate him.
Quote from: jimmy olsen on August 20, 2017, 10:05:16 PM
Ten sailors missing according to nbc. Also, this gem
QuoteResponding to a shouted question from a reporter about the incident on Sunday, President Donald Trump said: "That's too bad."
"I like people who don't fall in the ocean."
I find this totally unbelievable. These are ships run by highly trained professionals, with state-of-the-art equipment. Yet time and again they can't seem to do basic navigation right. What gives?
Quote from: Monoriu on August 21, 2017, 03:01:37 AM
I find this totally unbelievable. These are ships run by highly trained professionals, with state-of-the-art equipment. Yet time and again they can't seem to do basic navigation right. What gives?
As grumbler said, the Malacca Straits are hell, iirc it's the single busiest shipping lane in the world. Accidents do happen and this one is easier to understand than the Fitzgerald's.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/09/77/97/0977973f117a8f2b5e7c96528c69fa56--strait-of-malacca-airplane-window.jpg
EDIT: Looking it up, there were around 60 accidents in 2015. http://www.cambiasorisso.com/higher-traffic-in-malacca-strait-raises-concerns-about-accidents/
Quote from: Monoriu on August 21, 2017, 03:01:37 AM
I find this totally unbelievable. These are ships run by highly trained professionals, with state-of-the-art equipment. Yet time and again they can't seem to do basic navigation right. What gives?
I don't think that all the ships are run by highly trained professionals with state-of-the-art equipment.
Quote from: Monoriu on August 21, 2017, 03:01:37 AM
I find this totally unbelievable. These are ships run by highly trained professionals, with state-of-the-art equipment. Yet time and again they can't seem to do basic navigation right. What gives?
probably the chinese navy dropping prefab islands all over the place. You know how your government is :p
Turns out it wasn't in the Straits of Malacca, but rather in the more shallow waters to the east of the Strait. McCain appears to have turned to starboard (the required move) and left the channel to avoid the collision, but the tanker was also outside the shipping lanes. No one wants to be the OOD when something like this happens, but I'd rather be the OOD on McCain than the one on Fitzgerald.
If the stories I am being told are true, the company owning the tanker that struck the McCain are fucked.
Is it me, or does that hole in the McCain look exactly like a tanker's bulbous bow would fit in it?
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 21, 2017, 08:49:05 PM
Is it me, or does that hole in the McCain look exactly like a tanker's bulbous bow would fit in it?
Let's submit the image for analysis by our resident expert, Mr Grumbler, retired US Navy, 1785
(https://www.stripes.com/polopoly_fs/1.483795.1503314377!/image/image.JPG_gen/derivatives/landscape_900/image.JPG)
The US Navy: the greatest danger to world peace since the invention of the Chinese jet pilot
QuoteUS ignores its warships pose major threat to other vessels: China Daily editorial
By China Daily
Updated:August 28, 2017
In an apparent bid to quell Western concerns over a series of accidents involving US naval vessels, General Terrence O'Shaughnessy, the US Pacific Air Forces commander, insisted the US "freedom of navigation" operations in the South China Sea have not suffered a setback and the US military will continue them to combat China's territorial claims.
These remarks expose the US' hegemonic mentality: Never admit you have done something wrong, put the blame on others.
The USS John S. McCain was the latest US vessel to collide — with a tanker off Singapore on Aug 21 — in what was the fourth accident involving a US naval warship in the Pacific this year. Media reports said the 10 missing sailors were confirmed dead after their bodies were found on Monday. Together with the collision of the USS Fitzgerald in mid-June, which left seven US sailors dead, the US Navy has lost 17 personnel, compared with the 11 US soldiers killed in Afghanistan so far this year.
Judging by these figures alone, what the US claims to be "freedom of navigation" operations for peaceful purposes have become far more dangerous for the US military than fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan. The US should rethink its "freedom of navigation" policy for the safety of its military personnel, if not for anything else.
Yet O'Shaughnessy's remarks show the United States prefers to stick to its hegemonic mentality.
The Barack Obama administration ordered several "freedom of navigation" operations in the South China Sea, using the maritime disputes involving China and some Southeast Asian countries as an excuse to interfere in regional affairs. The Donald Trump administration is continuing that practice, perhaps because it perceives the so-called freedom of navigation operations as a major US strategy to check China's influence in the region. But the reckless behavior of US naval vessel commanders have helped people to see through the US' dangerous strategic games.
Instead of defending the so-called freedom of navigation, US naval vessels sailing in the South China Sea have become moving threats to other ships. And their frequent and unannounced presence in the waters should make the international community realize it is the US Navy that is militarizing the waters.
But instead of urging the US to rethink its strategy, some Western journalists have hinted that cyberattacks, orchestrated by China, could have led to the accidents involving the US warships. Are these journalists trying to prevent the US Navy from thoroughly investigating the accidents because they fear that it would reveal the dirty truths?
And if the US believes in such preposterous ideas, its naval vessels will continue to pose a threat to not only other ships but also its own military personnel.
Ching chong jealousy
Quote from: 11B4V on August 28, 2017, 04:43:37 PM
Ching chong jealousy
China Daily wishes it has the pull Russia Times does.
Quote from: Jacob on August 28, 2017, 05:13:32 PM
China Daily wishes it has the pull Russia Times does.
It's only getting going, you know. Not to mention so many more targets much closer to its heart. Personally, I find it so much more interesting to read.
Japanese PM Celebrates Birthday, Fails to Acknowledge Nation's War Crimes
Quote from: CountDeMoney on August 28, 2017, 06:22:37 PM
Quote from: Jacob on August 28, 2017, 05:13:32 PM
China Daily wishes it has the pull Russia Times does.
It's only getting going, you know. Not to mention so many more targets much closer to its heart. Personally, I find it so much more interesting to read.
Japanese PM Celebrates Birthday, Fails to Acknowledge Nation's War Crimes
:lol:
I was thinking - there's probably a significant profit opportunity for the slightly traitorously inclined American to replicate the Infowars/ conspiracy-sphere intake of foreign manufactured agitprop from Chinese sources rather than Russian ones.
When I still had Time Warner, I blocked CCTV from my TV. No commie shit in my household!
Too soon?
https://www.duffelblog.com/2017/08/navy-destroyer-collides-with-building-in-downtown-houston/
QuoteHOUSTON — As if the city of Houston hasn't seen enough tragedy due to catastrophic flooding from Hurricane Harvey, things took a turn for the worse today after a U.S. Navy ship collided with a building in the downtown area.
The ship was identified as an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer belonging to the Navy's 7th Fleet.
It was unclear why the destroyer was not able to see the building and take evasive action, or why it was over 20 miles inland and trying to navigate through a major metropolitan area.
"I had climbed up on my roof due to dem risin' flood waters, when I saw a big ship sailin' down the street," said Georgia Brown, a resident who witnessed the incident. "I says to myself 'Oh Lawdy, someone's done come to rescue us!' and then it sails right past my house and smack straight into that yonder building."
This marks the fifth collision incident this summer for destroyers from the Navy's beleaguered 7th Fleet, following incidents involving the USS Fitzgerald, USS John S. McCain, and the USS Ted Kennedy.
The Navy declined to comment on the cause of the collision, citing an ongoing investigation, although it did say the captain had been promptly relieved of his command.
Despite reticence from the Navy, a senior defense official speculated the ship had likely veered off course from its patrol route in the South China Sea.
Navy officials say they are planning a number of PowerPoint trainings related to urban maritime navigation.
Not for Languish ;)
Quote from: Habbaku on August 29, 2017, 11:09:21 PM
"I had climbed up on my roof due to dem risin' flood waters, when I saw a big ship sailin' down the street," said Georgia Brown, a resident who witnessed the incident. "I says to myself 'Oh Lawdy, someone's done come to rescue us!' and then it sails right past my house and smack straight into that yonder building."
Sweet!
Since we're talking about the McCain here, here's some changes the Navy is making to ensure this does not happen again, or at least, reduces the risks:
US Navy ditching touchscreens for physical throttles (https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-navy-were-ditching-touchscreens-for-physical-throttles-on-destroyer-fleet/)
Apparently, sailors are still confused by the touchscreens used on the new/refitted destroyers and clamoring to have their physical controls back.
I don't know enough about the subject, but I tend to suspect the problem lies more with badly designed tech than flawed tech in itsefl. But I'm not the one driving these monstrous dangers to world peace ;) so I'll let the sailors decide what's best for them. :P
Quote from: viper37 on August 12, 2019, 03:57:50 PM
Since we're talking about the McCain here, here's some changes the Navy is making to ensure this does not happen again, or at least, reduces the risks:
US Navy ditching touchscreens for physical throttles (https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-navy-were-ditching-touchscreens-for-physical-throttles-on-destroyer-fleet/)
Apparently, sailors are still confused by the touchscreens used on the new/refitted destroyers and clamoring to have their physical controls back.
I don't know enough about the subject, but I tend to suspect the problem lies more with badly designed tech than flawed tech in itsefl. But I'm not the one driving these monstrous dangers to world peace ;) so I'll let the sailors decide what's best for them. :P
On the other hand ... they could invest in hiring some sailors who wasted their youth playing video games, and so are familiar with such controls. :D
Yeah, an Xbox controller will do. :P
Quote from: Malthus on August 12, 2019, 04:05:46 PM
Quote from: viper37 on August 12, 2019, 03:57:50 PM
Since we're talking about the McCain here, here's some changes the Navy is making to ensure this does not happen again, or at least, reduces the risks:
US Navy ditching touchscreens for physical throttles (https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-navy-were-ditching-touchscreens-for-physical-throttles-on-destroyer-fleet/)
Apparently, sailors are still confused by the touchscreens used on the new/refitted destroyers and clamoring to have their physical controls back.
I don't know enough about the subject, but I tend to suspect the problem lies more with badly designed tech than flawed tech in itsefl. But I'm not the one driving these monstrous dangers to world peace ;) so I'll let the sailors decide what's best for them. :P
On the other hand ... they could invest in hiring some sailors who wasted their youth playing video games, and so are familiar with such controls. :D
That's the point; they did, but the controls didn't have a good tutorial.
The Navy always wanted the physical controls. It was the contractor that insisted (for cost-saving reasons) on using the touch screens.
Just as a matter of motor skills, a 30-inch wheel to control the rudder is going to be more precise than a one-inch dial.
Plus, it will put modern sailors in touch with the old salts who still talk about speeds ike "all ahead Bendix!"
(https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/323381837244_/WW2-Vintage-Navy-Ships-Engine-Order-Telegraph-Bendix.jpg)