Languish.org

It is a lot of fun. It is arcade ship battles, but they do a nice job, and I am haveing a very good time.


Compared to WoT, it is a slower game. tends to develop a bit, then get kind of crazy.


The naval afficionados should think of the era as kind of a mish-mash of post WW1 and WW2. There are four ship classes:


Destroyers: Fast, usually torpedo armed as their primary weapon, nimble
Cruisers: Fast, sometimes torpedo armed but not always, pretty much the "medium tank" of WoW.
Battleships: Slow, very heavily armed, very slow firing, very long range.
Carriers: Slow, not really armed, have kind of a RTS like system of air groups that take time to arm, then fly off and attack stuff.


There is kind of a stone-papers-scissors things going. Destroyers are great for torp striking BBs, and of course love to sneak back to the carriers if they can. Cruisers can take out destroyers pretty easily if they can land a couple volleys, and can do a lot of damage to battleships, but the battleships can crush the cruisers as easily as the cruisers can crush the destroyers, if they can get a volley to land. The rate of fire difference between cruisers and battleships is very significant. BBs fire once every 20-30 seconds, cruisers tend to fire once every 6-9 seconds. Battleships are best for fighting other battleships, since they have the penetration to actualy do so effectively. Carriers can hammer BBs and even cruisers can be caught with a well timed torpedo bomber strike, but have a lot of trouble hitting the nimble DDs, which can almost (but not always) dance out of the way of a air launched torp strike after it is launched.


Right now there are limited tech trees. Two nationalities, US and Japan. Both have destroyers and cruisers, but only the US has carriers, and only Japan has BBs right now. There is a Brit premium ship, the Warspite, and a couple Russian premiums, but no actual tech trees for them yet. The next update should have US BBs and Japanese carriers.


Visually, the game is outstanding. It really looks great.


It is "closed" beta test right now, but you can get in if you are willing to buy a pre-order package that comes with a premium ship. I bought the Tier 4 Japanes cruiser Yidori for something like $13 or so. If anyone is in or wants to try it out, I created a "Languish" chat channel, which as far as I can tell is persistent.


If you like World of Tanks or War Thunder, you will very likely enjoy this...IMO.

QuoteThere is a Brit premium ship, the Warspite,

:yeah:

Can you buy Nagato?

I'm not big on the idea of buying into it.  Just know they are going to end up giving out gold ammo and stuff eventually ruining it.   :sleep:

If anyone is at all interested in getting in before OBT, they annouced the closed beta "bonus" ship for CBT testers was going to be a Tier IV US Battleship, the Arkansas. You get it for free if you participated in 50 CBT battles.

Of course, they are announcing this now as a pretty blatant attempt to "bribe" people into shelling out some cash to get into CBT. But if anyone is interested...

Managed to snag a key off of their facebook page today.   :cool:

This guy is pretty funny.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=867&v=iIbbtZLMpZw

https://www.humblebundle.com/twitche3

Great deal for anyone interested in WoWS. $1 for CBT access, a T5 premium, 5 free slots, and 1000 gold.

In fact, it is kind of a stupidly good deal. I suspect some kind of mistake on someones part.

Uh yeah it is, I would have done that in a heartbeat.  1000g is worth more than a dollar in World of vehicles any way.  Can't check it at work but sounds great. 

Game is now in open beta if anyone wants to give it a try...

There is a "Languish!" channel as well.

I am: enjoying it.

Epic match:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/vky00jlzk83rhey/Screenshot%202015-08-22%2010.30.46.png?dl=0

Epic. Carriers can be brutal when people don't know how to make torp strikes hard.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7606i87196og64/shot-15.08.22_10.33.30-0466.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7606i87196og64/shot-15.08.22_10.33.30-0466.jpg?dl=0)

So it seems this is out now?

Quote from: Syt on September 17, 2015, 11:45:20 AM
So it seems this is out now?

Merely a formality. The game has basically been out since open beta, as there were no more wipes afterwards.

Yeah, I play pretty regularly.

I still play off and on, and enjoy the game quite a bit. There is a decent referal program going on if anyone wants to give it a shot:

http://playtogether.worldofwarships.com/invite/7gzvYY6

Quote from: Berkut on July 08, 2016, 02:45:52 AM
I still play off and on, and enjoy the game quite a bit. There is a decent referal program going on if anyone wants to give it a shot:

http://playtogether.worldofwarships.com/invite/7gzvYY6

Anniversary weekend!

Been literally years since I posted on languish, but happened onto it today and noticed this thread. I too play World of Warships with a few people. My in game name is, unsurprisingly, ehrie.

Funny that you mentioned it.... picked it back up a month ago or so, just got a Bismarck this morning.  It's meh.

Quote from: Alcibiades on September 14, 2016, 11:56:42 PM
Funny that you mentioned it.... picked it back up a month ago or so, just got a Bismarck this morning.  It's meh.

I also recently unlocked it, but I really like the Bismark. 10.6 km secondaries are a lot of fun.

And none of you used my referral code??? :angry:

I joined Closed beta like 3 years ago.

You can still use the code if you come back from an absence.

I actually don't even remember what you get from it any more. I think a free premium ship or something.

My premium runs out in a few hours and i probably wont play for several months so I'll remind myself to check this thread before i pick it up next time.  :)

They finally got around to getting the Royal Navy into the game, even though it is only a cruiser line for now.

They have bloody Russians in, but no Royal Navy. That is just a crime.

Quote from: Alcibiades on September 16, 2016, 10:59:53 AM
My premium runs out in a few hours and i probably wont play for several months so I'll remind myself to check this thread before i pick it up next time.  :)

http://playtogether.worldofwarships.com/invite/7gzvYY6

:whistle:

I've been playing tanks, not ships, not sure if that affects it... Probably does though.  I'll play a game or so in ships if it may help.  :cheers:

Did you click the link? I think it lists you as my friend on that page if you register under my link. The only person I have listed is "Threviel" though. Not sure who that is...

I did earlier this morning and clicked your link again just now which just brings me here :

(https://i.gyazo.com/9593fc8fddbfa78132e0d8b4ac20fcf5.jpg)

What is your in game name?

invite accepted, haven't played the game in over a year though :lol:

Cool, you show up in my invite list at least.

You can get a rather crappy Tier 2 premium ship for playing, and then once you get a Tier 6 ship, you can get a rather nice Premium ship for free, the Texas.

There is a Languish channel you can join as well, and I would be happy to team up if you want.

Texas is pretty good.  I may have to wait a few months to play again so I can get a free ship.   :P

In-game name is Vonlutt

Quote from: Berkut on December 03, 2016, 05:08:09 PM
Did you click the link? I think it lists you as my friend on that page if you register under my link. The only person I have listed is "Threviel" though. Not sure who that is...

That's me. I haven't gotten the game working on my Mac yet, so haven't tried it.

Is it actually available on the Mac? Or re you trying to run it in Windows on the Mac?

Quote from: Berkut on December 05, 2016, 08:20:41 AM
Is it actually available on the Mac? Or re you trying to run it in Windows on the Mac?

There is a client for Mac. I mean to use it for very casual gaming, if I reboot into Windows I have other games I prefer to play. But I haven't actually been able to get it running.

Katmai, you should have gotten a free Diana class cruiser, did that actually happen?

It isn't an anything special, just a Tier II premium, but it would cost a few bucks in the store otherwise...

I did. Haven't had chance to play since Sunday.

The USS Texas is a premium ship?  :huh:

Yes...?

Quote from: Berkut on December 10, 2016, 11:31:21 PM
Yes...?

I just wasn't aware that the game was set pre-WW1, when the New York class battleships would still have been seen as adequate.

Quote from: grumbler on December 10, 2016, 11:03:43 PM
The USS Texas is a premium ship?  :huh:

HELLS YEAH IT IS

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi718.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww188%2Fjdagee%2FWarSea_AHboxcover-1_zps7ce6b885.jpg&hash=9d83cb64e0ad3cdb8248a88e9f6cb3dcdd59403c)

Premium doesn't tell you how good a ship is, just if you have to pay money for it (or get it in a promotion like this).  Premium ships earn more currency than non-premium.  If you want to compare quality it's better to look at the tier of the ship. 

Everything I'm saying is based on World of Tanks, but I'm pretty sure it's the same system.

Quote from: frunk on December 11, 2016, 02:06:55 PM
Premium doesn't tell you how good a ship is, just if you have to pay money for it (or get it in a promotion like this).  Premium ships earn more currency than non-premium.  If you want to compare quality it's better to look at the tier of the ship. 

Everything I'm saying is based on World of Tanks, but I'm pretty sure it's the same system.

Gotcha.  A turd, but a free turd.  :lol:

Yeah, "Premium" just means that you can't level into it;  it can only be purchased or awarded under special circumstances.  It's just not an available element of the tech tree to the pheasants.

Remember, these are Russian-produced games.  Their definition of "Premium" is different than ours.  OPULENCE I HAS IT

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 11, 2016, 02:59:10 PM
Yeah, "Premium" just means that you can't level into it;  it can only be purchased or awarded under special circumstances.  It's just not an available element of the tech tree to the pheasants.

I didn't think pheasants used trees of any kind, being ground-based birds.

Many kinds of ants climb trees.

Quote from: grumbler on December 11, 2016, 03:25:38 PM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 11, 2016, 02:59:10 PM
Yeah, "Premium" just means that you can't level into it;  it can only be purchased or awarded under special circumstances.  It's just not an available element of the tech tree to the pheasants.

I didn't think pheasants used trees of any kind, being ground-based birds.

In Trump's America, anything with wings can fly.  Duh.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 11, 2016, 04:05:42 PM

Quote from: grumbler on December 11, 2016, 03:25:38 PM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 11, 2016, 02:59:10 PM
Yeah, "Premium" just means that you can't level into it;  it can only be purchased or awarded under special circumstances.  It's just not an available element of the tech tree to the pheasants.

I didn't think pheasants used trees of any kind, being ground-based birds.

In Trump's America, anything with wings can fly.  Duh.

So you are saying the pheasants are revolting?

Quote from: The Brain on December 11, 2016, 03:52:40 PM
Many kinds of ants climb trees.

In Brest-Litovsk, trees climb ants.

Quote from: grumbler on December 11, 2016, 06:22:22 PM
So you are saying the pheasants are revolting?

THEY STINK ON ICE

Fascinating.

Anyway Grumbler, the game is naval of course, but I would not worry TOO much about the history behind how the match ups work. The Texas is considered, so far as I am aware, a decent battleship at Tier 5.

The range of the ships goes from WW1 through the immediate post-WW2 era. For the most part, as you move up in tiers, the ships become more advanced.

The US BB line:
1 - NA
2 - NA
3 - South Carolina (1910)
4 - Wyoming (1912), *Arkansas B (1912)
5 - New York (1914), *Texas (1914)
6 - New Mexico (1918), *Arizona (1916)
7 - Colorado (1923)
8 - North Carolina (1941)
9 - Iowa (1943), *Missouri (1944)
10 - Montana (1941* (design))

Typically, but not always, the Premium ship at a Tier might be a named ship of the Tier class. Might have some nominal changes to give it some flavor.

Probably way more info than you cared for or wanted, but I like talking about the game...

http://playtogether.worldofwarships.com/invite/7gzvYY6

:whistle:

Ok, this is getting silly.

Quote from: Berkut on December 11, 2016, 07:41:51 PM
Anyway Grumbler, the game is naval of course, but I would not worry TOO much about the history behind how the match ups work. The Texas is considered, so far as I am aware, a decent battleship at Tier 5.

The range of the ships goes from WW1 through the immediate post-WW2 era. For the most part, as you move up in tiers, the ships become more advanced.

Remember that tiers I-II vary quite a bit: the US tier I is the Erie, a WW2-era guboat, while most of the other countries have pre-dreadnaught types. Heck, the US tier III cruiser [that opens the way to the South Carolina] is the 1901 St. Louis - with the first hull having the 1907 Great White Fleet decorations  :)

(I put Steven Seagal in command of my St. Louis)

US BBs are usually underwhelming until the US gets its WW2 technology going: I'll take on a Texas with my Kongo any time of the day. The latter North Carolinas and Iowas are powerhouses, though.

If you want a premium ship, I sport the Tirpitz: it basically prints credits, and since - unlike the Bismarck - it's a BB with torpedoes, it can make bigger battleships run for their lives (just yesterday I had fun chasing for half the match a far stronger tier 9 BB that was terrified of my torpedo salvos).  :cool:

Quote from: Syt
Ok, this is getting silly.

Stop sailing in a straight line. And don't get near smoke screens.

Also, don't show your broadside unless you absolutely must.

Might consider joining, even if I suck at this kind of game.  :hmm:

Quote from: Drakken on December 15, 2016, 06:18:23 PM
Might consider joining, even if I suck at this kind of game.  :hmm:

http://playtogether.worldofwarships.com/invite/7gzvYY6

The German DD line is supposed to come out soon...we could play up it together!

Can you instapop something, Hood-style?

More importantly, can you team kill?

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 15, 2016, 07:45:11 PM
Can you instapop something, Hood-style?

Yup. Every penetrating hit to one of the magazines has a chance to cause a detonation. However, that chance can be modified or even negated by mounting certain flags or upgrades.

Even without a lucky detonation, BBs will often oneshot cruisers, if they insist to show their broadsides at close range. Russian cruisers from tier 4 upwards make for especially nice fireworks, as most of their hull seem to consist of magazines. Grinding through the Shchors is NOT fun...

Quote from: Berkut on December 15, 2016, 07:36:29 PM

Quote from: Drakken on December 15, 2016, 06:18:23 PM
Might consider joining, even if I suck at this kind of game.  :hmm:

http://playtogether.worldofwarships.com/invite/7gzvYY6

The German DD line is supposed to come out soon...we could play up it together!

Accepted, mate.

Nick is the same as in WoT: SociopathicSquirrel

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 15, 2016, 07:45:11 PM
Can you instapop something, Hood-style?

Sure. Citadel penetration and/or detonation makes things go boom.

Quote from: Drakken on December 15, 2016, 10:15:06 PM

Quote from: Berkut on December 15, 2016, 07:36:29 PM

Quote from: Drakken on December 15, 2016, 06:18:23 PM
Might consider joining, even if I suck at this kind of game.  :hmm:

http://playtogether.worldofwarships.com/invite/7gzvYY6

The German DD line is supposed to come out soon...we could play up it together!

Accepted, mate.

Nick is the same as in WoT: SociopathicSquirrel

Awesome!

They have placed the Arizona back on sale....

http://worldofwarships.com/en/news/common/yesarizonasback/ (http://worldofwarships.com/en/news/common/yesarizonasback/)

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Arizona (http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Arizona)

I missed it when it was first released for sale, so I am definitely buying it this time. Probably my single favorite/nostalgic warship of all time.


(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.gcdn.co%2Fimages%2F8%2F8d%2FArizona_Broadside.jpeg&hash=76862baf4a144ab7869a141e86de646d7a96ef61)

Quote from: Malicious Intent on December 15, 2016, 08:37:46 PM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 15, 2016, 07:45:11 PM
Can you instapop something, Hood-style?

Yup. Every penetrating hit to one of the magazines has a chance to cause a detonation. However, that chance can be modified or even negated by mounting certain flags or upgrades.

Even without a lucky detonation, BBs will often oneshot cruisers, if they insist to show their broadsides at close range. Russian cruisers from tier 4 upwards make for especially nice fireworks, as most of their hull seem to consist of magazines. Grinding through the Shchors is NOT fun...

I may have to install this...

Quote from: Drakken on December 15, 2016, 10:15:06 PM

Quote from: Berkut on December 15, 2016, 07:36:29 PM

Quote from: Drakken on December 15, 2016, 06:18:23 PM
Might consider joining, even if I suck at this kind of game.  :hmm:

http://playtogether.worldofwarships.com/invite/7gzvYY6

The German DD line is supposed to come out soon...we could play up it together!

Accepted, mate.

Nick is the same as in WoT: SociopathicSquirrel

Tried to accept this link too, but it doesn't seem to want to let me. Can links only be used once?

Think it went through under chrome. If not, sorry. nick is HVC

Yep, I see HVC and Funk in there.

Set up a Languish WOWS discord server....if anyone is interested. I think it is persistent, but I am not sure...

https://discord.gg/hnCym

I am FunkMonk in game. Add me bitches

Seedy, I haven't hit a rock yet!

 :lol:  CAME OUTTA NOWHERE

Someone asked when they should use HE versus AP.

On one hand, this is a pretty complex question that has answers very depenent on the particulars of the ship.

On the other hand, in a general sense, it is pretty simple at the most basic level, and at the most basic level, it goes like this:

When you are in a:

DD
HE against everything.

CA
HE against BBs
HE against DDs
AP against other CAs

BB
HE against DDs
AP against CAs
AP against BBs, unless the angle is head on or tail, then go with HE.

Thanks Berk

A basic primer on penetration mechanics in WOW specifically as it relates to HE vs AP.

When an AP shell hits, it is checked against the targets armor in that location. It can either:

1. Penetrate, and deal some amount up to its full damage potential.
      a. If they area penetrated is protecting the citadel of the ship, the AP round has a chance of getting a critical hit, which can be devastating.
2. Ricochet/bounce, in which case it does nothing.
3. Break up, in which case it does nothing.
4. Over-penetrate (basically pass through the armor section without exploding at all) in which case it always does 10% of its maximum damage.

When an HE shell hits, it can

1. Penetrate, and deal some amount up to its full damage potential. This is rare though, even against light armor since HE is designed to explode on contact.
2. Break up, in which case it does nothing. This happens when smaller HE shells hit very heavy armor.
3. Explode, in which case it will do some damage up to something like half its total potential, and have a chance to start a fire.

So, back to my original matrix. You use HE against DDs because they almost always have no significant armor, and hence nearly all AP shells will over-pen, doing little damage. However, I am not much of a DD player, and there are times when I think DD vs DD makes sense to use AP. DDs themselves generally have small, fast firing guns that have little chance of penning anything, so they stick to HE.

BBs generally have large, high pen guns, so they tend to use AP against other BBs hoping to get pens. Sometimes, they use HE instead because those large shells have high fire chances, and getting the target burning, then switching back to AP is often a good plan. And sometimes if you are in a T5 BB shooting at a well armored T7 BB, for example, you switch to HE just because your AP is going to have a tough time penning anyway.

When BBs shoot at cruisers, they mostly use AP. Cruisers tend to have ok armor, but not enough to have much chance of shedding a round from a battleships rifles (unless they are nicely angled). So you can reliably pen them, and have a shot at through to their citadel as well, which can be devastating.

When BBs shoot at DDs, their guns will almost always over-pen if they are using AP. Sometimes that is not big deal though, since those large guns even doing 10% damage can still be very damaging to a DDs small HP pool. So HE is probably your best bet.

Cruisers are the most interesteing. Their guns are in between, so what you fire is very dependent on understanding what you are shooting at. My rule of thumb above assumes that in general, a CA will over-pen a DD (hence use HE), can pen a CA (hence use AP), and is not likely to pen a BB (use HE). But there are some CAs with really great penetrating guns (the Germans) where using AP against same or lower tier BBs can work great, especially if they are being nice enough to show their broadside to you.

There are some cruisers with pretty terrible AP, and will struggle penning other cruisers.

Then there is the entire "light cruiser" versus "Heavy cruiser" difference as well. In general, cruisers in WOWs fall into light and heavy groups. In a nutshell, a light cruiser tends to have armor more like a destroyer. They are fast, often have fast firing 6" guns that do great DPM, but distringrate when hit because the idea is that their defense is to NOT get hit to begin with - so why have a bunch of armor that won't stop shells anyway?

Heavy cruisers tend to have 8" guns, and the armor intended to actually turn back cruiser shells. So knowing which of these you are shooting at is important when you are in a cruiser.

IIRC, it is basically:

IJN Tiers I-VI: Light, Tier VII+: Heavy
US Tiers I-VII: Light, Tier VIII+: Heavy
German Tiers I-VI: light, VII: Balanced, VIII+: Heavy
USSR: Tiers I-VIII: Light, IX+: Heavy
UK: Light
German Tier


There is a lot more to all of this of course, the armor and pen models are not necessarily terribly realistic, but they are pretty detailed. I am by no means an expert.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 11, 2016, 01:45:11 PM

Quote from: grumbler on December 10, 2016, 11:03:43 PM
The USS Texas is a premium ship?  :huh:

HELLS YEAH IT IS

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi718.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww188%2Fjdagee%2FWarSea_AHboxcover-1_zps7ce6b885.jpg&hash=9d83cb64e0ad3cdb8248a88e9f6cb3dcdd59403c)

I own and have played this game.  The counters are fully punched and everything.

Great, the Federally Administered Tribal Areas of Albertastan got its internet back.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 17, 2016, 03:42:04 PM
Great, the Federally Administered Tribal Areas of Albertastan got its internet back.

It never was out.  I just left because I felt that Languish was making me a worse person.

Quote from: Neil on December 17, 2016, 04:02:28 PM
I just left because I felt that Languish was making me a worse person.

Good one.

battleships are soooo slow. maneuvering, turrets, everything.

Quote from: HVC on December 17, 2016, 04:13:52 PM
battleships are soooo slow. maneuvering, turrets, everything.

You really have to have a plan with them.

Quote from: HVC on December 17, 2016, 04:13:52 PM
battleships are soooo slow. maneuvering, turrets, everything.

As Neil said, it's all about planning ahead. Upgrades and crew skills can also help with turret rotation and ship agility.
I Started WOWS preferring DDS and cruisers, but I have shifted more and more towards BBs over time.

The IJN BBs are at least quite fast from tier 4 onwards. Myogi and Kongo work great in concert with cruisers, as they can easily keep up with them. Sadly, many new players just see their long range and insist on inaccurate long range sniping.  :mad: I'm currently at the Fuso, which is the one slow BB in the Japanese tree at only ~25 knots. It's also rather fragile (easy to citadel).

US BBs have a comparatively tight turning circle. They actually feel rather agile and it's quite easy to evade torps. But they are painfully slow at only 20-21 knots up to tier 7. I have a Colorado and the huge high tier maps can be a big pain in it, especially if you have to shift flanks in mid-battle. The poor BB-45 is just outclassed at it's tier. I would rather take my good old Arkansas to battle, but I can't grind the tech tree with it.  :(

German BBs seem occupy the middle ground between the other two trees, at least up to tier 6 (Bayern), where I am now.

I have no clue how the French (Dunkerque), or Brits (Warspite) play.
The Russian Imperator Nikolai has the reputation of being OP and was quickly removed from sale.

I am on the Bismarck (T8) and it is clearly the class of the tier.

I actually like the North Carolina more... but the Biz is definitely the better ship at Tier 8.
10.8km secondaries? Yes please!
31+knots speed? Yes please!
Excellent armor that lets it take on T9 battleships? Yeppers!

The only downside to it is that it is inevitably going to get nerfed...

I still have a far way to go till I reach the Bismarck, but at least the Bayern makes for a nice grind. Actually I very much enjoyed every German BB so far.
What's the Gneisenau like? It seems seriously undergunned. The torps are great for brawling, but few people are dumb enough to engage the Gneisenau in a short range fight.

I think the German BB line was pretty fun all the way up. The Gnei is fine - those guns hit fricking hard at her tier, even if there aren't many of them.

I hit a kawachi 194 times for 30751 damage, and sometime took my kill hah.

 :yuk:

Quote from: Berkut on December 17, 2016, 11:36:39 AM
Set up a Languish WOWS discord server....if anyone is interested. I think it is persistent, but I am not sure...

https://discord.gg/hnCym

tells me invalid or expired invite.

https://discord.gg/QDEhvdC

Quote from: Berkut on December 17, 2016, 08:13:18 PM
I am on the Bismarck (T8) and it is clearly the class of the tier.

I actually like the North Carolina more... but the Biz is definitely the better ship at Tier 8.
10.8km secondaries? Yes please!
31+knots speed? Yes please!
Excellent armor that lets it take on T9 battleships? Yeppers!

The only downside to it is that it is inevitably going to get nerfed...

Yeah, Bismarck is always homeboyed to the max.  Her armor was not, in fact, all that great (the layout was particularly obsolete), and her AA was pretty pathetic.  Good main guns, though, at least at short and medium ranges.

I am interested in the frequent claim that "exposing the broadside" is bad, when in reality that was the opposite of the truth.  Range errors were far greater than bearing errors, so you wanted to present the broadside to reduce the hit rate (chances of broadside hits were maybe 15% of those for end-on shots).

I signed up and started an intro mission, but.....there's no gunfire or engine sound, or really anything except music, "radio" transmissions, and reloading sounds.  :(

Ah. Unchecked wide dynamic range, or whatever that is, and it's all good now.

Quote from: grumbler on December 18, 2016, 01:11:58 AM

Quote from: Berkut on December 17, 2016, 08:13:18 PM
I am on the Bismarck (T8) and it is clearly the class of the tier.

I actually like the North Carolina more... but the Biz is definitely the better ship at Tier 8.
10.8km secondaries? Yes please!
31+knots speed? Yes please!
Excellent armor that lets it take on T9 battleships? Yeppers!

The only downside to it is that it is inevitably going to get nerfed...

Yeah, Bismarck is always homeboyed to the max.  Her armor was not, in fact, all that great (the layout was particularly obsolete), and her AA was pretty pathetic.  Good main guns, though, at least at short and medium ranges.

I actually suspect her being OP in the game is more a function of that being the latest line than anything else. Each time they release a new line, they have to make it a little different, and I think for the German line they just overshot a bit.

Her armor is very good compared to other T8 BBs, but part of that is likely an error in the US NC class.

Her guns are very good at short range, and compared to the US and IJN BBs, the Biz excels at brawling, fighting at short ranges. The US is better at mid to long,a nd the IJN the better long range.

While they do try to get the basic historically accurate, WoWS is first and foremost a game, so they don't worry too much about making the ships relatively historic per se.

Quote

I am interested in the frequent claim that "exposing the broadside" is bad, when in reality that was the opposite of the truth.  Range errors were far greater than bearing errors, so you wanted to present the broadside to reduce the hit rate (chances of broadside hits were maybe 15% of those for end-on shots).

That is really interesting - in the game, it is the opposite from the standpoint of missing. You tend to miss laterally much more than in depth. I have always thought that the tactics of the game bear little resemblance to actual gunnery tactics around relative positioning.

Er.  I'm think I'm doing something wrong.  Or do the British cruisers suck?

The Black Swan was pretty cool, but man Im getting my ass kicked by just bots with the Weymouth.  I also have the first US cruiser (Chester), and I seem to do much better in that.

My best success so far has been with The Chester.

Ermahgerd the St Louis is really fun.  Guns everywhere.

E:  I got the upgrade to the "B" version, and the little diagram makes it look like the hull is made out of guns.  Much better than armor or whatever other ships use for that.  ^_^

Quote from: grumbler on December 18, 2016, 01:11:58 AM
I am interested in the frequent claim that "exposing the broadside" is bad, when in reality that was the opposite of the truth.  Range errors were far greater than bearing errors, so you wanted to present the broadside to reduce the hit rate (chances of broadside hits were maybe 15% of those for end-on shots).

Ultimately, it's an arcade game and not a simulation.  Game mechanics and balance will always trump historical and technical accuracy.  So you have destroyers firing 80 torpedoes a game, battleships sailing end-on to each other and having secondary guns that are useless against destroyers, and cruisers ravaging everything with fires like it was 1905 or something.  You'll also get some interesting effects on the ships based on fanboyism, so Bismarck and the Russian ships are awesome, but Royal Navy cruisers are mostly floating sacks of garbage.

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 18, 2016, 04:03:18 AM
Er.  I'm think I'm doing something wrong.  Or do the British cruisers suck?

The Black Swan was pretty cool, but man Im getting my ass kicked by just bots with the Weymouth.  I also have the first US cruiser (Chester), and I seem to do much better in that.

Yes, the British cruisers are terrible.  The game has been balanced so that the most effective strategy for cruisers is to spam high explosive shells and start fires on enemy ships.  When they were bringing in the British cruisers, their idea for making them unique was to give them a fancy, high-performance AP shell, but remove HE.  So you can kill destroyers fairly well, but anything else will ruin you.  You also have citadels that come way out of the water, so you're very vulnerable.  The line is pretty bad.

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 18, 2016, 04:03:18 AM
Er.  I'm think I'm doing something wrong.  Or do the British cruisers suck?

The Black Swan was pretty cool, but man Im getting my ass kicked by just bots with the Weymouth.  I also have the first US cruiser (Chester), and I seem to do much better in that.

I'm pretty good on the nassue, and suck on the Kaiser. it happens lol

In fairness Russian ships, even WW1 vintage, had superior armor to any Western design of the world wars.

My problem with the Bismark is the damage. 

I routinely see this all the time, from this morning:

(https://i.gyazo.com/69b8c4b0c15930cf9e8f0f1f21231733.png)

Drives me absolutely insane when I'm bouncing most shells or even when I penetrate it does no or little damage.   :mad:

Okay I ground out enough XP on the Weymouth to upgrade to the Caledon.  Torpedoes make a big difference.  Icing BBs with them is pretty great.

The Brits cruisers all completely suck until you get to the Leander at T6. That is acceptable at least.

The real differentiator for the Brit cruisers isn't that they only fire AP, it is that they get smoke and are quite capable of sitting at their range and hammering away in smoke so they cannot be seen.

Their guns, while lower caliber, spam like crazy.

They are, without a doubt, that most difficult line to play. But really good Brit cruiser players are infuriating. It is all about managing smoke and shooting from cover with them.

I'm getting progressively worse at this game

 :lol:  More rocks?

Quote from: Berkut on December 18, 2016, 10:42:40 PM
The Brits cruisers all completely suck until you get to the Leander at T6. That is acceptable at least.

The real differentiator for the Brit cruisers isn't that they only fire AP, it is that they get smoke and are quite capable of sitting at their range and hammering away in smoke so they cannot be seen.

Their guns, while lower caliber, spam like crazy.

They are, without a doubt, that most difficult line to play. But really good Brit cruiser players are infuriating. It is all about managing smoke and shooting from cover with them.

This one doesn't seem to have smoke (although there seems to be stuff that has to be unlocked as you level up), but I've been using it like a bigger destroyer.  Get in to torp range, shit out torpedoes everywhere, run and hide, repeat (if I'm still alive).  It has some repair things that help with the staying alive part.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 18, 2016, 11:45:06 PM
:lol:  More rocks?

No!


Well, I did get locked once in a BB between some islands lol :blush:

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 18, 2016, 11:50:44 PM

Quote from: Berkut on December 18, 2016, 10:42:40 PM
The Brits cruisers all completely suck until you get to the Leander at T6. That is acceptable at least.

The real differentiator for the Brit cruisers isn't that they only fire AP, it is that they get smoke and are quite capable of sitting at their range and hammering away in smoke so they cannot be seen.

Their guns, while lower caliber, spam like crazy.

They are, without a doubt, that most difficult line to play. But really good Brit cruiser players are infuriating. It is all about managing smoke and shooting from cover with them.

This one doesn't seem to have smoke (although there seems to be stuff that has to be unlocked as you level up), but I've been using it like a bigger destroyer.  Get in to torp range, shit out torpedoes everywhere, run and hide, repeat (if I'm still alive).  It has some repair things that help with the staying alive part.

I think they get smoke at T5? Definintely by T6.

I actually free XPed past T4, I was so annoyed with the Brit cruisers. T5 was bearable, but not really fun. Just got the T6 Leander, and it is a huge improvement already.

I have actually reduced the number of lines I am playing - dropped the USSR destroyer and cruisers lines (might pick the cruiser line back up, I am at the Schors, when it is on sale). Dropped the US CV line after the Lexington.

Quote from: HVC on December 18, 2016, 11:52:28 PM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 18, 2016, 11:45:06 PM
:lol:  More rocks?

No!


Well, I did get locked once in a BB between some islands lol :blush:

HVC, I think the one thing I did that improved my play the most was being aware of where my ship was relative to the rest of my team. I found that I was generally pretty agressive, and no matter what ship I was using that match, I was typically out in front of the other ships on my team of that type. That meant I was usually first in contact, and firsts to get shot at, and died pretty quickly.

I try very, very hard now to not do that - to engage when it makes sense for me to engage, not just fly out and try to find something to shoot at.

And in most cases, I try to focus on making myself hard to kill over being able to do more damage. IE, if I am playing my North Carolina, it is fine to only use the front two turrets, rather than expose my side in order to bring the rear turret to bear. 66% firepower with a reduction in vulnerability to some Izumo itching to citadel me is usually a good trade.

Finally, when playing ships where stealth matters, being aware of your detection range when not shooting and when shooting is important. When you understand that, and realize that there are some DDs where their detection range when shooting is sometimes LESS than their max range, you can start doing all kinds of fun things. This is really important for IJN destroyers are their torpedoes. If your detection range is 6km, and you have 8km torpedoes....in any case, knowing that stuff helps a lot.

You might consider using some of the player mods. There is one that actually shows your current detection range on the mini-map, and it changes when you shoot. Being able to see that right on the map is really helpful.

Quote from: Berkut on December 19, 2016, 09:02:58 AM
You might consider using some of the player mods. There is one that actually shows your current detection range on the mini-map, and it changes when you shoot. Being able to see that right on the map is really helpful.

This has actually become part of the main game some time ago. You can set filters for the mini map and show dynamic detection ranges as well as main and secondary battery range, torpedo range and the varying AA ranges.

Quote from: Alcibiades on December 18, 2016, 01:23:35 PM
My problem with the Bismark is the damage. 

I routinely see this all the time, from this morning:

(https://i.gyazo.com/69b8c4b0c15930cf9e8f0f1f21231733.png)

Drives me absolutely insane when I'm bouncing most shells or even when I penetrate it does no or little damage.   :mad:

Why does this happen Berkut, learn me your ways pls.   :wacko:

Quote from: Alcibiades on December 19, 2016, 10:33:01 AM

Quote from: Alcibiades on December 18, 2016, 01:23:35 PM
My problem with the Bismark is the damage. 

I routinely see this all the time, from this morning:

(https://i.gyazo.com/69b8c4b0c15930cf9e8f0f1f21231733.png)

Drives me absolutely insane when I'm bouncing most shells or even when I penetrate it does no or little damage.   :mad:

Why does this happen Berkut, learn me your ways pls.   :wacko:

I am not sure what I am looking at there that is so terrible, actually. Are you concerned at the damage done for 53 hits? 73k damage is rather considerable overall...

53 hits driving a Bismark, one being a citadel and including fire damage, comes out to around less than 1k damage per shell which seems pretty anemic, in my opinion.....   :hmm:

Quote from: Alcibiades on December 19, 2016, 12:23:39 PM
53 hits driving a Bismark, one being a citadel and including fire damage, comes out to around less than 1k damage per shell which seems pretty anemic, in my opinion.....   :hmm:

If you mouse over the "hits" ribbon, the game shows you how many of those hits were actually penetrating, over-penetrating, bouncing or shattering. Citadel hits are counted separately under the appropriate ribbon. In a BB, a significant part of your damage should come from citadel hits, especially against cruisers.

It is also important to note that ships are divided into damage sections, each with a maximum hit point pool. The sum of these sections' HP is actually larger than the HP total of the ship. Once a section is depleted of HP, further hits there will do no damage. In addition there are nonessential parts of the ship that can eat shells without resulting in damage (some masts and some small parts of the ships superstructure).

Quote from: Alcibiades on December 19, 2016, 12:23:39 PM
53 hits driving a Bismark, one being a citadel and including fire damage, comes out to around less than 1k damage per shell which seems pretty anemic, in my opinion.....   :hmm:

Well, there are a lot of variables involved here.

Take fire damage. You set 4 fires, which means some of those hits were likely with HE shells. OK - it could the case that for each of those, the target had a repaid module ready each time, hence your actual fire damage could vary between basically none to a huge amount.

You had 50 hits. Again...that is pretty good, but what were you hitting? Were vainly blasting away at a Montana, and 25 of those hits were bounces?

Even the citadel could be bad luck - I got two citadels once in one volley on a Cleveland. Sadly, it only had like 400HP left when the volley hit, so total citadel damage was....400.

I guess what I am saying is that getting hits is a necessary condition to doing damage,  but I don't look at that result as being particularly unusual. Looks like a pretty decent match to me, 73k damage is well above average I suspect. Certainly it is above my average.

You could have a very similar match with a similar number of hits. and see double that damage as well if the variables went another way.

Hm.  Hey Berk, did you get anything for when I signed up using your friend link?  Is there anything I need to do with that?  I haven't gotten the Diana cruiser, so I wonder if I screwed it up somehow.

I don't get anything unless the person who signed up gets up to Tier 6.

But you don't show up in my "referreed friends list" so I am guessing whatever you did did not work...

Well shit.  I used the link from a couple of pages ago in the thread, but I must have missed something. 

E:  This one: http://playtogether.worldofwarships.com/invite/7gzvYY6  :hmm:

if you're using windows 10 the default web browser won't work. I had to use chrome.

Quote from: HVC on December 19, 2016, 03:03:54 PM
if you're using windows 10 the default web browser won't work. I had to use chrome.

I used Chrome, and it all seemed fine.  Meh.  I submitted a ticket to them. 

Quote from: Berkut on December 19, 2016, 01:42:34 PM

Quote from: Alcibiades on December 19, 2016, 12:23:39 PM
53 hits driving a Bismark, one being a citadel and including fire damage, comes out to around less than 1k damage per shell which seems pretty anemic, in my opinion.....   :hmm:

Well, there are a lot of variables involved here.

Take fire damage. You set 4 fires, which means some of those hits were likely with HE shells. OK - it could the case that for each of those, the target had a repaid module ready each time, hence your actual fire damage could vary between basically none to a huge amount.

You had 50 hits. Again...that is pretty good, but what were you hitting? Were vainly blasting away at a Montana, and 25 of those hits were bounces?

Even the citadel could be bad luck - I got two citadels once in one volley on a Cleveland. Sadly, it only had like 400HP left when the volley hit, so total citadel damage was....400.

I guess what I am saying is that getting hits is a necessary condition to doing damage,  but I don't look at that result as being particularly unusual. Looks like a pretty decent match to me, 73k damage is well above average I suspect. Certainly it is above my average.

You could have a very similar match with a similar number of hits. and see double that damage as well if the variables went another way.

Was a heavy BB game, so only shot BBs.  The fires were from the 83 (lol) secondary hits when I went to ram the Friedrich der Große as I was in a dead-end situation.  I guess what I was getting at was that I routinely find myself looking at the overall damage at the end of most matches and look at how many shells land and it feels frustrating.  Especially when the enemy ships land one shell here and there for 5000-7000 per shell  and I'll land 4-6 shells for 1k-3k damage.  Just wondering if you find yourself experiencing that as well.

I think you are probably experiencing pretty normal results, but of course we notice those big hits from the enemy, and don't notice when they are bouncing as well.

It sure as hell feel that way sometimes though. You work carefully to get good shots in, turn for one second to avoid an island or something, and the bad guys drop in three hits to your broadside, 2 of which pen for 4k each.

I don't think I can handle the USSR line anymore for just that reason. Finishing a math with 120 shell hits for 25,000 damage is just an exercise in frustration.

I just unlocked my first battleship, the Nassau, and in my first ever BB match I deleted 4 enemy ships, including 1 battleship, and carried my team to inevitable victory. My shoulders are made of stern German steel, apparently.

Feels good.  :showoff:

I suspect, just like in World of Tanks, that when you have a good match in this game, it feels really good, and when you have a bad one, it feels really, really, really fucking shitty. Fucking teammates are shitters

Quote from: FunkMonk on December 19, 2016, 06:46:46 PM
I suspect, just like in World of Tanks, that when you have a good match in this game, it feels really good, and when you have a bad one, it feels really, really, really fucking shitty. Fucking teammates are shitters

:lol:  I like to consider my 1 hour TK bans as an excuse to go get a sandwich.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 19, 2016, 09:00:00 PM

Quote from: FunkMonk on December 19, 2016, 06:46:46 PM
I suspect, just like in World of Tanks, that when you have a good match in this game, it feels really good, and when you have a bad one, it feels really, really, really fucking shitty. Fucking teammates are shitters

:lol:  I like to consider my 1 hour TK bans as an excuse to go get a sandwich.

Tastes like... victory.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 19, 2016, 09:00:00 PM

Quote from: FunkMonk on December 19, 2016, 06:46:46 PM
I suspect, just like in World of Tanks, that when you have a good match in this game, it feels really good, and when you have a bad one, it feels really, really, really fucking shitty. Fucking teammates are shitters

:lol:  I like to consider my 1 hour TK bans as an excuse to go get a sandwich.

:lol:

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 19, 2016, 09:00:00 PM

Quote from: FunkMonk on December 19, 2016, 06:46:46 PM
I suspect, just like in World of Tanks, that when you have a good match in this game, it feels really good, and when you have a bad one, it feels really, really, really fucking shitty. Fucking teammates are shitters

:lol:  I like to consider my 1 hour TK bans as an excuse to go get a sandwich.

:D

Why aren't you playing this yet?

I DL'd it.  Was chugging around in a Jap destroyer, shooting bots for the training missions.   :lol:

:mad:

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 19, 2016, 09:19:03 PM
I DL'd it.  Was chugging around in a Jap destroyer, shooting bots for the training missions.   :lol:

trying to grind out a jap carrier. gonna go pearl harbor on someones ass lol

Nicks still HVC ;)

I might download this around Christmas. Prepare your anus.

Tomorrow is the next release, and it will include the German DD line.

I am sure I will give it a try, so it would be a chance to team up with some of the newer players in low tier ships if anyone is interested?

I will try to get online when I can during this week, Berkut.

I haven't played any destroyers yet, so this ought to be interesting. 

Well, *I* am going to try them out, that doesn't mean to team up we both have to be trying them.

Teams with a DD and CA work pretty well for example. DD pushes a cap, detects enemy DD, engages, and cruiser helps blow it away. Ideally.

I am just saying that I will be playing low tiers that I normally don't even have, so it would be fun to team up...

Ah, cool, gotcha.

I'm down, but won't be back in town until next Thursday.  I'm only in the T2 German cruiser, so I can slowly approach anything sighted then bounce shells off it all day!  :w00t:

got my carrier... and i'm not very good hah

Practice manual drops with torps. That is pretty much the key to making people hate you.

And don't try to attack the Texas.

I've been doing some co-op games so that I don't mess up other peoples games. my issue is that I have issues with the fighters. even with strifing I lose them all and my torps become undefended.

I have played CVs up to T9 in both lines, and I *still* suck at strafing most of the time.

So don't feel bad. If you are paying attention, it isn't hard to avoid strafing.

There are different thoughts on this, but in my view my fighters are there to tie up his fighters so my TBs can get through. So my goal is not to "win" the fighter contest, overall, so I rarely, if ever, try to strafe enemy fighters.

Heh.  Just survived a battle with 28 HP left.  Look at that ship funny and it would have sunk.

 :lol: Okay that was a stupid match.  I finally decided to try out the DDs and picked the Japanese one, Umikaze (also bought the Russian one because it was available).  First game: I just cruised up the middle, vaporized another DD with a couple torpedoes, and hung out in the base area until victory.  No one else would come near me, so I guess maybe they couldn't see me? 

E:  Except for the DD and a cruiser who were together near the base, the other team had kind of scattered.  After the DD blew up the cruiser took off in the other direction and ran straight into my whole team coming around the corner. 

https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/common/graficviolence/

Looks like they are really doing some pretty cool XMas stuff. The set of missions that results in the Graf Spee looks like fun. Looks like you need Tier V to start, so you newbs have something to work on!

Dasha, the Russian chick who narrates the videos, is kind of weirdly cute...

jesus. my games have been like 60% german DDs lol

So they responded to that ticket of mine, telling me what to do for the stuff, which, after looking at it, I wasn't able to do the last thing (accept the invitation) because I was never given the option.  It just went straight to "you are a veteran," which is why I initially figured it was done.   They also said that they can't apply the rewards manually AND I can't accept a new invite if I'm beyond level three.  :lol: 


Anyhow, I guess neither one of us will be getting anything out of that, Berk.

E:  Although if I could, I would go back and not waste my XP on the South Carolina.  Maybe focus on one line of ships instead of jumping around everywhere.  :hmm:

Quote from: HVC on December 20, 2016, 10:06:27 PM
got my carrier... and i'm not very good hah

Eggplants cannot fly.

Sure we can... it's just that our flights are always late :P

Everyone working the Graf Spee event?

Quote from: Berkut on December 22, 2016, 07:44:54 PM
Everyone working the Graf Spee event?

Going to try this afternoon, visiting family in Chicago so I brought my surface pro - we'll see how it goes.

I am a little disspointed in the event. It is cool, but I like those missions that have kind of interesting tasks. These are all basically "earn xp". Kind of boring.

HVC and Funk! Thanks for the containers, and Merry Christmas!

One of them had an Anshan inside! :yeah:

The queue for noobies sucks ass.  This is almost as bad as World or Warplanes, nobody plays.  Pffft, rather go back to Tanks, make fun of dumbass Brazilians and cossacks and get banned for TKing minimap spammers.

What is your ingame name, newb?

Quote from: Berkut on December 25, 2016, 11:09:15 AM
HVC and Funk! Thanks for the containers, and Merry Christmas!

One of them had an Anshan inside! :yeah:

Merry Christmas :)

Funk, check your emails, I sent one to you too, but didn't see an email of your receipt.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 25, 2016, 11:12:20 AM
The queue for noobies sucks ass.  This is almost as bad as World or Warplanes, nobody plays.  Pffft, rather go back to Tanks, make fun of dumbass Brazilians and cossacks and get banned for TKing minimap spammers.

:blink:

Never had an issue with a queue lasting more than a minute for any ship of any tier (except when they released German BBs - there were over 700 of them queuing low tiers that day). At any time of day or night.

Maybe NA server is just less populated than EU one? I remember that during the inter-server competitions, NA teams lost horribly (1-9) to EU ones. Still doubt it, I can find matches all the time. And low levels are even more populated - not just by newbies but also by veterans who want to sealclub in their St. Louises and Imperator Nikolais.

As for the Graf Spee: the Deutschland class was designed as a merchant raider with BB guns to scare away light cruisers and flee from anything else. It was *never* meant to be active in the sorts of engagements WoWs has. Which means it will suck, badly - at its tier, it can wreck cruisers and is beaten by everything else. At higher tiers.... it is kinda defeated by all bar same tier cruisers  :shutup:

No ship in WoWS was "meant to be active in the sorts of engagements" WOWs has.

It might suck, it might not, but it won't be one or the other based on analysis derived from its historical capabilities.

Quote from: HVC on December 25, 2016, 01:26:25 PM

Quote from: Berkut on December 25, 2016, 11:09:15 AM
HVC and Funk! Thanks for the containers, and Merry Christmas!

One of them had an Anshan inside! :yeah:

Merry Christmas :)

Funk, check your emails, I sent one to you too, but didn't see an email of your receipt.

Thanks and you're welcome, guys. :)

Merry Shipmas!

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 25, 2016, 11:12:20 AM
The queue for noobies sucks ass.  This is almost as bad as World or Warplanes, nobody plays.  Pffft, rather go back to Tanks, make fun of dumbass Brazilians and cossacks and get banned for TKing minimap spammers.

LOLz u sux noob git gud

USS Texas is on sale, doubloon wise (2300 or so).  I got several of those santa box things from some friends of mine and ended up with enough to get it.  They also gave me the Emden, which seems pointless, the Japanese premium battlecruiser that pretends to be a BB and is actually kinda fun, and 90 days of premium.  Those boxes seem awesome.

E:  Well, I should note that they're all on sale, but the only one I didn't have and could afford with doubloons was the Texas and probably the low tier DDs.   I'm not a big fan of the DDs though. 

Annnnnd Im drunk and bought Dunkerque.  Its fun as hell being able to out run a BBs turrets in a ship that big. 

E:  the secondary turrets are weird:  they're almost all in the back, so when you bomb by them at 30 kts and get out of the main turret arc (all 8 guns in the front but they do seem to have a pretty good arc), the secondary guns pick them up and shoot at them from the back.

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on December 31, 2016, 02:04:06 AM
Annnnnd Im drunk and bought Dunkerque.  Its fun as hell being able to out run a BBs turrets in a ship that big. 

E:  the secondary turrets are weird:  they're almost all in the back, so when you bomb by them at 30 kts and get out of the main turret arc (all 8 guns in the front but they do seem to have a pretty good arc), the secondary guns pick them up and shoot at them from the back.

If you are fighting contemporary battleships with the Dunkerque, you are doing it wrong.  D&S were cruiser-killers (especially Graf Spee class killers), not battleships (though the guns turned out to be amazing in terms of armor penetration; they are better against horizontal armor than even the US 16"/50 with the super-heavy shell).  Their armor couldn't stand up to battleship shells, though.

The main guns are all in front because they will be chasing anything they can engage, and will just run away from anything bigger than themselves.  Jackie Fischer would have loved them.

As mentioned, this game doesn't always reflect real life.

Dunkerque is a BB in the game, so matchmaking will put you with other BBs, and sometimes the match is really really light on CA/CLs and DDs.  Engaging BBs with it involves essentially charging at the head on-ish ("angling":  this apparently makes you have super armor where 12" shells can bounce off of you lolz) and basically doing a drive by (this is when the turrets can't track), then moving on to the next target while the rear guns set them on fire, etc.  They can burn a Tirpitz pretty well, but you can't really get too close to those because they have torpedoes. Scharnhorst too, although the AP can penetrate those from further off. 

When you can find them, it eats cruisers pretty well too, of course. 




Anyway, those who have this game, are the santa boxes broken...in a good way?  On a whim this afternoon, I bought 6 of the $3 ones for myself and ended up with Indianapolis, Tirpitz (!!!), doubloons, more premium, and then some camo/flags in the last two.  :blink:   So yeah, I have a Tirpitz now. 

Ed launches a yellow dye marker and searches for strawberry ice cream.  And fondles his balls.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 01, 2017, 11:45:29 PM
Ed launches a yellow dye marker and searches for strawberry ice cream.  And fondles his balls.

:)

I had 4 servings.

bad teams in this game is much worse than in world of tanks. it's really make or break. kind of makes me miss world of warplanes.

How you doing with that carrier, HVC?  I just got into a Bogue and....it's.....meh.  The gameplay is interesting, but the ship seems less flexible than the Langley.  Wasted some XP on the carrier wing upgrades when it seems like the stock one with fighters and torpedo bombers is the best one. 

I haven't been able to sink anything even against bots yet, regardless of the wing setup I use.  Maxed out at only 25,000ish damage.  I haven't gotten the hang of manual drops, so I'm only hitting with a couple of torps at a time if I'm lucky.

too many moving parts for me. I played a few times in co-op so not as to mess around with people real games, but I just couldn't get into the swing of it.

I'm looking at it like an RTS that has almost everything automated.  Like the newer HoIs when you let the AI play most everything for you, except some of the players are worse than the HoI AI.  :P

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on January 01, 2017, 11:20:15 PM
As mentioned, this game doesn't always reflect real life.

Dunkerque is a BB in the game, so matchmaking will put you with other BBs, and sometimes the match is really really light on CA/CLs and DDs.  Engaging BBs with it involves essentially charging at the head on-ish ("angling":  this apparently makes you have super armor where 12" shells can bounce off of you lolz) and basically doing a drive by (this is when the turrets can't track), then moving on to the next target while the rear guns set them on fire, etc.  They can burn a Tirpitz pretty well, but you can't really get too close to those because they have torpedoes. Scharnhorst too, although the AP can penetrate those from further off. 

You have succeeded in convincing me that this game would drive me crazy.  Capital ships moving so fast that another capital ship's turrets can't track?  That happened like, never.  Battleship turret rotation speeds were on the order of 5 degrees per second, and the ship could easily turn if that's not fast enough.  To have a bearing rate better than 5 degrees/sec at 30 knots, you'd have to be closer than 180 yards!  That just never happened.  Even against the ultra-slow Yamato turrets (2 deg/sec) you'd have to be inside 500 yards, which you'll never survive long enough to get to.

I understand why they might want to make the game more fun by leaving out real-world factors, but you have to at least make a nod to math and physics, or these might as well be alien spaceships or unicorns.

THere is plenty in the game that would drive you nuts, but I don't think they BB guns not tracking would be one of them.

There is some close range brawling between BBs, even the occasional ram, for that matter, but the issue with turret rotation speed is generally one of "I was shooting over here, and now I want to shoot over there...LIKE RIGHT NOW, but it is going to take a while to get my turrets to turn into a crossing target....".

Other than trying to track a close range DD, I don't recall turret rotation being much of an issue for a BB once they actually get them onto target, no matter how fast that target is moving. The turret speed on the Dunkurque is 36 seconds to turn 180 degrees, so that is...exactly 5 degrees per second. 

The game is a lot of fun, and I suspect you would like the naval theme of it, but it would certainly drive you nuts if you thought a lot about it as a simulation.

It is, I am sure, even worse than World of Tanks in being not at all a simulation, just because of the nature of the theme.

But it is free to play, hence basically free to try out. Nothing really to lose but time.

Quote from: HVC on January 02, 2017, 06:07:54 AM
bad teams in this game is much worse than in world of tanks. it's really make or break. kind of makes me miss world of warplanes.

It's all clockwise lemmings. 

Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 02, 2017, 01:36:14 PM

Quote from: HVC on January 02, 2017, 06:07:54 AM
bad teams in this game is much worse than in world of tanks. it's really make or break. kind of makes me miss world of warplanes.

It's all clockwise lemmings. 

I mean it can still be fun, be when it starts going south there's no turning back.

Quote from: grumbler on January 02, 2017, 09:22:22 AM
To have a bearing rate better than 5 degrees/sec at 30 knots, you'd have to be closer than 180 yards!  That just never happened.

It happened to two unfortunate BBs who didn't seem to know wtf was going on yesterday.  :P

Like Berk said, once you get to that point the Dunkerque's guns can't track either (and I've definitely seen enemies trying to keep up with me and being unable to, even when they've been shooting at me.  You'll still have to take the shots from the rear turrets that you're right in front of, but they seem to miss a lot...maybe zoomed all the way in?), but it doesn't matter since they should be in the process of reloading because you just sent all 8 rounds straight into the other guy and now it's all up to the secondary batteries.  Sometimes I screw up and don't hit them right and do almost no damage, sometimes I fuck them up real bad.   Either way, I just keep on going (if I'm still alive and haven't attracted the attention of every enemy ship in the area, which happens a lot heh).

E:  Speaking of which, I saved the results of that one because I had some questions:

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi67.tinypic.com%2Fbhzsk4.jpg&hash=a71b79b96801368d631bac7cfafa6f1c58d251b0)

How does the credit payout get calculated in these?  Do you get paid more for sinking bigger ships (and premium?)?  I've taken down twice as many ships and did more damage in a Caledon and about the same in Tirpitz, but got significantly less cash than here where it was just two BBs (a Fuso and Arizona, IIRC). That's the most I've gotten in a match for any ship, but it's not the highest number of hits, ships sunk, damage....anything.  Not the most XP either. 

E2:  Oh and for g, check out the punishment the Dunkerque can absorb in this game if you point it in the right direction (from a different match where I survived with like 400hp left but we lost anyway):

(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi65.tinypic.com%2Fe84v3q.jpg&hash=37e902168f82d169929edb4262e0e3e844db8a7a)

Facing the wrong way though?  lol 2 - 3 AP hits can blow it up, so that's a little more realistic I guess.

I wish you could individually arm your guns so that you had a mix of AP and HE

Enjoy your war chest berk :P

You get the Texas?? Nice!

yeah, testing it out now. the 80k free xp is nice too. so got a Bayern, a Texan, and a tier 6 us cruiser whose name I forgot.

also, the 60s torpedo load on the Nicholas seems excessive for a DD

MBM, there is a credit payout tab that gives more details about credit payment, but you get a very significant boost for having a premium account, and another boost for having premium ships - I think they get something like a 25% increase in gross credits, which results in a even greater net increase.

Further, I think premium ships get a discount on their per game "repair" cost as well.

So in general, premium ships make quite a bit more credits than regular ships. I have a T8 premium, the Atago, and I typically net in the 300k per game with it, and sometimes even more for a really good game.

Ah ha okay.  I'll have to check that tab out if I ever win again and get similar numbers.

Also, you seem to be saying that I need an Atago.  :P

If you want to buy a premium for the purpose of generating credits, I think the best are probably Scharnhorst, Atago, and Tirpitz.

Well, the best is the Missouri, of course, but that is likely out of reach.

Oh yeah I saw a Missouri yesterday.  750,000 free XP seems to be a bit much.

Yeah, it is outrageous! Only a fool would consider such a thing.

I am about halfway there...

 :lol: Man I figured you had a lot when you casually mentioned Free XPing through the British line to the Leander.   

Is everyone playing actually working on the Graf Spee campaign?

Quote from: Berkut on January 03, 2017, 10:22:04 AM
Is everyone playing actually working on the Graf Spee campaign?

Yes, haven't started this week's, though. 

I like to watch people who never learned about steering and sailing right-of-way bitch about running into each other at Tier III.

Almost as much fun as watching people launch torpedo spreads from behind their teammates SIGNAL LAMP SAYS --- --- .--. ...

If you're a destroyer never follow another destroyer. They will friendly your ass. It was funny when the new German destroyers came out, a few minutes into the game you'd see a wall of pink text.

There is some basic responsibility, IMO, on the guy eating friendly torps as well. You have to have some situational awareness about what is around and what people are trying to do.

If you blunder into the line of fire between a cruiser or DD and a battleships about 10 klicks away from them....well, you might be surprised when you eat a salvo of friendly torps, but that doesn't mean you should be...

I have killed friendly maybe half a dozen times total, and most of those times it was my fault.

But I had a match a couple weeks ago in my Ibuki, and a Montana was coming down around an island. I setup a PERFECT torpedo attack, came in out of his site, set myself up to launch at him as he came around the island. Checked, there was another cruiser off to the side, but going the other way. Perfect.

Drop two spreads, and turn away. Launch looks fucking ideal.

Oh wait. That cruiser...he is turning back! Back into me! Right straight into my launch lane!

I chat and warn him, but of course he isn't paying any more attention to chat than he was the map. Not only does he eat my spread, he saves the Montana from 3 or 4 torpedo hits as well.

And of course I was the asshole. He suddenly had time to notice and pay attention to chat after three long lances ended his participation in our little battle.

Quote from: grumbler on January 02, 2017, 09:22:22 AM

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on January 01, 2017, 11:20:15 PM
As mentioned, this game doesn't always reflect real life.

Dunkerque is a BB in the game, so matchmaking will put you with other BBs, and sometimes the match is really really light on CA/CLs and DDs.  Engaging BBs with it involves essentially charging at the head on-ish ("angling":  this apparently makes you have super armor where 12" shells can bounce off of you lolz) and basically doing a drive by (this is when the turrets can't track), then moving on to the next target while the rear guns set them on fire, etc.  They can burn a Tirpitz pretty well, but you can't really get too close to those because they have torpedoes. Scharnhorst too, although the AP can penetrate those from further off. 

You have succeeded in convincing me that this game would drive me crazy.  Capital ships moving so fast that another capital ship's turrets can't track?  That happened like, never.  Battleship turret rotation speeds were on the order of 5 degrees per second, and the ship could easily turn if that's not fast enough.  To have a bearing rate better than 5 degrees/sec at 30 knots, you'd have to be closer than 180 yards!  That just never happened.  Even against the ultra-slow Yamato turrets (2 deg/sec) you'd have to be inside 500 yards, which you'll never survive long enough to get to.

I understand why they might want to make the game more fun by leaving out real-world factors, but you have to at least make a nod to math and physics, or these might as well be alien spaceships or unicorns.

You think that's annoying?  The ultimate strategy for battleships is:  Getting your T crossed.  The game calculates armour in such a way that by turning bow on you not only present a smaller target, but also are more likely to have enemy shells glance off you.  If you don't present your armoured belt, it cannot be penetrated, or so the thinking goes.  It's an arcade game, with only the loosest historical and technical grounding.

I got an email warning for "expressing in chat offensive insults and other derogatory comments" or something.

Ok who won the pool?

They had it coming.

What level did you unleash? Mild, or your full DEFCON fetus attack?

Oh, let's not worry about little details like that.

I just had a weird little moment.

An enemy player made a comment in chat along the lines of "Well <FirstName>. Your attitude sucks and you should try being a bit less of a drag on your team..." etc., etc., etc.

The <FirstName> he used was MY first name, which of course is not my user name. And the way he said it...fuck it sounded just like how Seedy talks to me! I swear I thought it was him, and he recognized my username (Berkutt) and was giving me shit.

But then I realized there was a player on the other team who had a user name with their actual first name in it. Weird little moment.

Quote from: Neil on January 05, 2017, 11:32:37 PM
You think that's annoying?  The ultimate strategy for battleships is:  Getting your T crossed.  The game calculates armour in such a way that by turning bow on you not only present a smaller target, but also are more likely to have enemy shells glance off you.  If you don't present your armoured belt, it cannot be penetrated, or so the thinking goes.  It's an arcade game, with only the loosest historical and technical grounding.

Yes.  I think that the game ignores the fact that the 'belt" when hit end-on is, in fact, a much weaker bulkhead.  Bismarck had a 320mm belt, but the bulkheads forward and aft were mostly 145mm (220mm in front of the magazine).  So, what is the best strategy in the game is the nightmare for actual period naval officers (and that's ignoring the fact that shell ballistic error was mostly in range, not bearing, so that a ship end-on is much easier to hit).  I can't bring myself to support that.

I was wondering why that was the case - I don't much care for the purposes of the game, as the ranges and firing rate and hit rate are all absracted enough that the naval theme is plenty enough for me. And in fact, it is certainly a better *game*, since it creates a lot more incentive to maneuver, rather than just form line of battle and blast away.

But I did wonder why it was the case that you would NOT want to present as small and angled a target as possible in naval warfare. Giving the other side a clean shot at the largest possible apparent target seems like a bad idea. But that makes a lot more sense. The very reason the belt is so heavily armored is SO you can in fact give them that shot, which is better than the alternative of presenting the more weakly armored head or tail of the belt, and the "length" of the ship to hit (which would also make it a lot easier to smash up the relatively unarmored superstructure)

I assume you cannot armor the ends simply because they, by definition, need to have all kinds of things passing through them - passageways, shafts, etc., etc?

Quote from: Berkut on January 06, 2017, 08:08:58 AM
I just had a weird little moment.

An enemy player made a comment in chat along the lines of "Well <FirstName>. Your attitude sucks and you should try being a bit less of a drag on your team..." etc., etc., etc.

The <FirstName> he used was MY first name, which of course is not my user name. And the way he said it...fuck it sounded just like how Seedy talks to me! I swear I thought it was him, and he recognized my username (Berkutt) and was giving me shit.

But then I realized there was a player on the other team who had a user name with their actual first name in it. Weird little moment.

Heh.  Weird indeed, but
1) I wouldn't address you by your name
2) I wouldn't type that much
3) without a shitload of profanity
4) like when HVC runs into the one fucking rock in the middle of the desert CAME OUTTA NOWHERE DID IT DUMBASS

The rocks were camouflaged lol

Of course they were.  Desert camo pattern.

Quote from: Berkut on January 06, 2017, 09:32:44 AM
I was wondering why that was the case - I don't much care for the purposes of the game, as the ranges and firing rate and hit rate are all absracted enough that the naval theme is plenty enough for me. And in fact, it is certainly a better *game*, since it creates a lot more incentive to maneuver, rather than just form line of battle and blast away.

But I did wonder why it was the case that you would NOT want to present as small and angled a target as possible in naval warfare. Giving the other side a clean shot at the largest possible apparent target seems like a bad idea. But that makes a lot more sense. The very reason the belt is so heavily armored is SO you can in fact give them that shot, which is better than the alternative of presenting the more weakly armored head or tail of the belt, and the "length" of the ship to hit (which would also make it a lot easier to smash up the relatively unarmored superstructure)

I assume you cannot armor the ends simply because they, by definition, need to have all kinds of things passing through them - passageways, shafts, etc., etc?

The ends were not armored as well because the situations where they would face perpendicular fire (i.e. from ahead or astern) would be so rare that it would be a waste of weight better spent elsewhere.  Lighter armor was acceptable because shots against the bulkheads would be highly oblique, thus giving the armor greater effective resistance.

A bean target isn't really smaller than an end-on target, given that the ship's entire width is exposed to end-on fire (remember that the shells are dropping at a fairly steep angle except at close ranges) and that directors are much more accurate at bearings than ranges (which is why shell patterns are down the same bearing but in a range ladder).  Shellfire is actually pretty accurate after the first few salvos (unknown external effects on shell flight like upper winds and air density are deduced by the way the first few salvos differ in impact from their predicted impact, and internal factors like cold barrels no longer apply).  What stops every shell from hitting is range uncertainty, some slight ballistics, and target maneuvers. The way West Virginia crushed Yamashiro at Surigao Strait with her first salvo illustrates what happens when radar makes ranging more accurate

Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 06, 2017, 01:12:58 PM
Of course they were.  Desert camo pattern.

You're the one who kept running off a cliff on that one map :lol:

Quote from: HVC on January 06, 2017, 01:15:01 PM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 06, 2017, 01:12:58 PM
Of course they were.  Desert camo pattern.

You're the one who kept running off a cliff on that one map :lol:

Trying to get air Dukes of Hazzard-style is no sin, especially when I would rather suicide before I give someone a kill.

#NoOneShallWieldExcaliburButMe

:D

Say what you want, you had fun playing arty together :wub:

The match started with a mass of BBs and cruisers all jammed together. I think like 3 ran into each other, in a group of 5. My first 6 torpedoes all got hits, and I didn't even have to aim at any specific ship, just fired them into the mass....(https://photos-2.dropbox.com/t/2/AAAnLJZlxXckghxkvfOq0uOQ7-ij3N0cgPGhb4YzM5GHWw/12/16125366/jpeg/256x256/1/_/1/2/G-101%20Legend.jpg/EMqDggwYg28gAigC/BykEw7kHCyzHR-zF25AUJxixM5DjxASkDjbKQp2QJoc?size_mode=3&size=2048x1536)

I can't see your image, Berk.  You sink all three?

I got my first TK marker yesterday for not sinking anyone.  Friendly Gneisenau was broadside to me and lined up just right so the tag of the red guy I was looking at over there looked like it was him.  40,000+ damage in one long range salvo on some number of citadel hits from the Dunkerque.  Dropped them right in there.  Oops.  :D  Burned through that real quick in co-op getting those easy 400 hit, 50,000 fire damage, 15 destroyed module type achievements.

No, I don't think I sank any of the ships I initially hit, at least not immediately. Ended up with just two kills.

The interesting/bragging part was the 126,000 damage, 9 torpedo hits, 214 gun hits...in a Tier 3 G-101.

German destroyers are fun then? Or is that a one off kind of thing?

the jap DD's are fun. I don't like the Nicolas, but until then so were the us DD's

just had my highest damage game, 100,110 on a Bayern.

I am not sold on the German DDs, really. The firward firing torps are kind of cool, but over all they seem pretty "meh".

the Kuma is awesome.

Quote from: HVC on January 08, 2017, 08:22:19 PM
the Kuma is awesome.

It is kinda fun.  :lol:  I HAS BIPLANE

Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 08, 2017, 08:26:25 PM

Quote from: HVC on January 08, 2017, 08:22:19 PM
the Kuma is awesome.

It is kinda fun.  :lol:  I HAS BIPLANE

has better torp range than us DD's lol. and the guns are good too.

Bored here at work, so I got my gambling fix bought 12 more $3 Santa Boxes in sets of three.  Results:  some doubloons and flags and shit, and Atago, Warspite, Sims, and Arizona.   Heh.  I noticed I haven't gotten any Russian ships in these things, but have loaded up on the other nations (plus the Polish destroyer). 

Warspite's turret rotation speed says 72 seconds.  That seems like it would be really goddamn annoying. 

Wow, that is a really nice set of ships.

Atago is probably the best credit earner other than the Missouri.
Warspite is just plain cool, along with Arizona
Sims is just so-so.

I wonder how much money they're making on those boxes.  I know I've bought a bunch of them for myself after seeing the results, but then again, I haven't spent nearly as much money on getting all those ships and stuff (I've got like 450 days of premium time too lol) as if I had just straight up bought them off their site. 

Emden, Tirpitz, Polish DD, Warspite, Arizona, Texas, Atago, Atlanta, Marblehead, Sims, Indianapolis, Ishizuchi.  That's some serious bucks if you were to buy those in their premium store.  Tirpitz and Atago alone are ~$50 each.

E:   Although, thinking about it, I never even considered buying Tirpitz and Atago because of the price.  That was just too much for where I was/am in the game (I'm at Tier VI in non premium, VII if I ever buy the Fiji), so I guess they got some money out of me for those instead of none.   :hmm:

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on January 09, 2017, 12:51:47 PMWarspite

Yeah, whatever happened to Arkestra?

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on January 09, 2017, 12:51:47 PM
Warspite's turret rotation speed says 72 seconds.  That seems like it would be really goddamn annoying.

If that's through 360 degrees, that's 5 d/s, so pretty typical

That's like 1/10 of the match to turn your turret lol

Quote from: grumbler on January 09, 2017, 10:11:37 PM
If that's through 360 degrees, that's 5 d/s, so pretty typical

It's for 180  :(  I ended up using the rudder to help line them up in the quick game I tested it in. 

E:  Arizona is awesome. 

Atago is super slick.  Only one co-op with it and I already love it. 

Speaking of which, good lord people whine a lot in random.  Ultra serious bidness there.  Everyone is much more relaxed in pve. 

I spent about 25$ on those shitty things and just got a bit of doubloons and nothing but ship skins.  What a waste.   :rolleyes:

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on January 09, 2017, 10:37:48 PM
Speaking of which, good lord people whine a lot in random.  Ultra serious bidness there.  Everyone is much more relaxed in pve.

The only time you worry about a World of Lemmings player is when he stops bitching. 

Quote from: CountDeMoney on January 10, 2017, 12:31:33 AM

Quote from: MadBurgerMaker on January 09, 2017, 10:37:48 PM
Speaking of which, good lord people whine a lot in random.  Ultra serious bidness there.  Everyone is much more relaxed in pve.

The only time you worry about a World of Lemmings player is when he stops bitching.

Surprisingly, the guy I hit to get the TK status bitched considerably less than what I've seen in chat over way less (some minor random shit between players seems to get all crazy sometimes). I absolutely wrecked that guy and all I got was a "Really?"   :lol: 

E:  They need to turn off these Santa Boxes.  I'm addicted, and when I'm at this remote/boring location for work like I was on Monday and am today, I start thinking about being a dumb shit and spending money on a free game.  Got 3 more of the $3 ones: 2x Anshan (one turned into a bunch of doubloons) and 90 more days of premium.  The extra 10 point captain went into my reserve, where....he's worthless.  Unless there are other Chinese ships?

Maybe someday...? Yeah, that does seem pretty worthless.

I hear you on the boxes. Fucking things are like crack.

They've really figured out how to make "free to play" into a cash machine. They know just the little triggers to hit in the human brain...

Hey I got a Fiji.   :)

I've heard good things about those...I am still on the Leander.

It's pretty nice.  I used some santa doubloons for the perma camo.  I now have a light cruiser with jungle camo.

E:  :lol:  Dropped down to the lower tiers because PVP is more fun there, and the Ishizuchi can really kick some ass.  Got vaporized by one in my Tenryu and remembered I had one too:

(https://i.imgsafe.org/9ce71620a3.png)

Quote from: Berkut on January 06, 2017, 09:32:44 AM
I was wondering why that was the case - I don't much care for the purposes of the game, as the ranges and firing rate and hit rate are all absracted enough that the naval theme is plenty enough for me. And in fact, it is certainly a better *game*, since it creates a lot more incentive to maneuver, rather than just form line of battle and blast away.

But I did wonder why it was the case that you would NOT want to present as small and angled a target as possible in naval warfare. Giving the other side a clean shot at the largest possible apparent target seems like a bad idea. But that makes a lot more sense. The very reason the belt is so heavily armored is SO you can in fact give them that shot, which is better than the alternative of presenting the more weakly armored head or tail of the belt, and the "length" of the ship to hit (which would also make it a lot easier to smash up the relatively unarmored superstructure)

I assume you cannot armor the ends simply because they, by definition, need to have all kinds of things passing through them - passageways, shafts, etc., etc?

It's important to note that your broadside is actually your smaller target at any kind of range.  It's not all that difficult to determine an appropriate lead on a target.  The tricky part is always the range, especially when the range is changing and even the rate at which the range is changing is changing.  If you'r firing at a battleship broadside at 20 km, you're going to get the right angle almost immediately, but elevation-wise you're trying to find the range of a space about 150 feet wide, give or take.  If he's pointing right towards you the target you're aiming for is closer to 1000 feet.  Your odds of dropping a shell onto that space are much higher. 

So if you had to choose.....Belfast or Scharnhorst?

Scharnhorst.

Done. 


I only have 700 santa doubloons after that, but hey...Scharnhorst definitely looks good in the port.

E:  Yeah thats some good times. Good call, Berk.

New combat missions are up for some blinged up Myoko that isn't Japanese.  20k base XP in US, German, Japanese, and Russian tier V+ ships.  Ends Feb 20. 

https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/common/here-comes-the-rooster/

Worth the bother?

Quote from: CountDeMoney on December 11, 2016, 02:59:10 PM
Yeah, "Premium" just means that you can't level into it;  it can only be purchased or awarded under special circumstances.  It's just not an available element of the tech tree to the pheasants.

Remember, these are Russian-produced games.  Their definition of "Premium" is different than ours.  OPULENCE I HAS IT

Actually, in English, "premium" was originally a noun meaning "an extra amount paid".  The adjective "premium" hence showed that a particular item had an extra cost associated with it.  So a "premium beer" was a beer that wasn't produced in a particular market, which you had to pay extra for to cover the shipping costs.  When domestic beer production started back up with the repeal of Prohibition, the big breweries launched marketing campaigns to convince the public that "premium" actually meant "of higher quality".

So, history lesson concluded, I'm thinking about accepting Berkut's invite and getting into the game, but I'm one of those who would get quickly annoyed by the arcade aspects of the game and would prefer something with more simulation value.

Quote from: dps on January 21, 2017, 10:18:52 PM
Actually, in English, "premium" was originally a noun meaning "an extra amount paid".  The adjective "premium" hence showed that a particular item had an extra cost associated with it.  So a "premium beer" was a beer that wasn't produced in a particular market, which you had to pay extra for to cover the shipping costs.  When domestic beer production started back up with the repeal of Prohibition, the big breweries launched marketing campaigns to convince the public that "premium" actually meant "of higher quality".

Big fucking deal.  That's originally based on the English for "big fucking deal."

QuoteI'm one of those who would get quickly annoyed by the arcade aspects of the game and would prefer something with more simulation value.

Then definitely stay away.  It's the kind of game you play with one eye on the TV.

Hey do the elite silver ships (when you research all the things) allow for free captain transfer like the premiums?

Nope.

Huh.  I don't really see the point of them in that case.  :hmm:

There isn't...much. I generally sell them myself, but a lot of people keep all their ships forever.

Reasons to keep ships after they have been elited:

1. You just like the ship and want to play it even after you've elited it.
2. For ranked play, a season generally has set tiers it is set at. So it might be good to keep 1 ship or two of each tier you like and are good at to use for those cases where you need a good ship at a specific tier.
2b. Same reason for campaigns where you might need to complete missions in a ship of a particular tier.
3. Elite ships XP goes into a pool that can be converted (for a doubloon cost generally) to Free XP.

Myself...I never keep regular ships once I research the next one. Generally because I am too cheap, and because I usually feel like I have way more ships than I ever play anyway.

Hey, Berkut, despite my reservations, I accepted your invite, and I've managed to grind my way to level 6.  Did you get a freebie for that?

I suck at the game, though.  And I may be the unluckiest player ever.  I got one-shotted the first time out in the Chester.  I double checked the detailed report after the battle.  Yep, only took 1 hit, and it was HE from dead ahead.

Quote from: Berkut on January 23, 2017, 01:36:32 PM
Myself...I never keep regular ships once I research the next one. Generally because I am too cheap, and because I usually feel like I have way more ships than I ever play anyway.

Yeah, that sounds like somebody who never made it to 70 in WoW because he had nine alts in the 20s and 30s  :P

Quote from: dps on February 06, 2017, 10:35:42 PM
Hey, Berkut, despite my reservations, I accepted your invite, and I've managed to grind my way to level 6.  Did you get a freebie for that?

I suck at the game, though.  And I may be the unluckiest player ever.  I got one-shotted the first time out in the Chester.  I double checked the detailed report after the battle.  Yep, only took 1 hit, and it was HE from dead ahead.

Sounds like a detonation, which is a shitty thing.  Are you high enough level to use flags?  You should have gotten some that completely prevent it from happening after that.

Yeah, that happens now and again. I once detonated a Iowa with my Bismarck on the first shot of the game fired at some stupidly ridiculous range. That was pretty damn funny.

But it is really rare.

The flag that reduces detonation chance by 100% is not a guarantee though. Because there are other flags that increase the chances of a detonation.

So if the base chance is 2%, and I have a +50% flag that bumps it to 3%, and you have a -100% flag, then you end back up with a net 1%. Still, for any ship over like Tier 6 or so, I run that flag all the time, as long as I have them, and I never seem to run out.

I now have more freaking camo than I think I can ever possibly use....they give that stuff out like candy.

BTW, fdor those interested in esoteric discussions of actual warships, Warships1, peobably the most knowledgable board on the topic ever, is now located at http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/forums/63.

The forum format sucks, and the discussions are often fairly rambling, but the expertise there is staggering.  Gotta love the micro-level look at tings, though.

A piece of advice though:  never post anything whatever from world of warships at warships1, unless you are in need of a new or spare asshole. 

LOL.

That would be pretty hilarious - figure out how to get some of the spazzes from the WoW forum over to discuss the historocity of the Montana's citadel armor and how it is modeled in a real grognards naval warfare forum like that.

I would pay for the popcorn...

Haven't been playing nearly as much, but I got on for some matches last night. The Tier 5-7 ships were on sale, and I had almost completed the T6 Brit cruiser Leander (nice ship) and thought I would knock that off and buy the Fiji while it was on sale, and there was the 100% first win bonus this weekend.

So I bought it and took it out for its first run. Commander not trained, completely stock.


(https://photos-6.dropbox.com/t/2/AADVuKlCxpfQojxLPHK2At6KPr9oAyw5yngoUVEBuWpefw/12/16125366/jpeg/256x256/1/_/1/2/FIrst%20Match%20Fiji.jpg/EMqDggwYjHEgAigC/OJP27mIgDxZQnz8eVClIW0u2nhTVDLzZJjZWPJtMpgk?size=2048x1536&size_mode=3)

Now I don't even want to play it any more. That is certainly going to be the best match I ever have in that ship, while it is as crappy as it will ever be - every single match after will be with a MORE capable ship, and I won't do nearly as well. :P

The Fiji class were nice ships, given that they were cost-limited and so smaller than their contemporaries (8,000 tons standard compared to almost 12,000 for the Clevelands).  It turned out to be a blessing that they couldn't get the 5.25 secondaries (4 turrets planned) and instead got the lighter but much better 4".  They had a better balance between armor and armament than the Clevelands and were not nearly so cramped and top-heavy.

It tells you a lot about the shifting threats and missions for these ships that they traded a triple 6" turret late in the war for an additional pom-pom and some light AA.

How do the little (5,000 ton) Arethusas do in this game?  They were extremely successful historically, and better cruisers than the Didos that were supposedly their improved successors.  They may be my favorite class of cruisers of all time.

Quote from: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 04:29:58 PM
How do the little (5,000 ton) Arethusas do in this game?  They were extremely successful historically, and better cruisers than the Didos that were supposedly their improved successors.  They may be my favorite class of cruisers of all time.

Not in the game yet.

The Brit Cruiser line is:

I: Black Swan
II: Weymouth
III: Caledon
IV: Danae
V: Emerald
VI: Leander
VII: Fiji
VIII: Edinburgh
IX: Neptune
X: Minotaur

Most are considered to be pretty crappy for their tier until you get to Leander.

Their "special" think in WoW is that they do not have HE shells, only AP, but that AP has good pen, but lower potential critical damage than most cruiser sized AP. And they carry smoke, which is mostly limited to DDs in WoWS.

I believe the next planned line of ships will be French cruisers.

I am kind of amazed that they still don't have a British battleship line. That seems just silly to me.

I'd trade the French and the Russian ships for the Italians.  But you know the Russians aren't going anywhere.  50 fucking ships for the one navy that did dog shit the entire war.  Even the French saw more action at Toulon.

Quote from: Berkut on April 01, 2017, 06:01:34 PM
The Brit Cruiser line is:

I: Black Swan
II: Weymouth
III: Caledon
IV: Danae
V: Emerald
VI: Leander
VII: Fiji
VIII: Edinburgh
IX: Neptune
X: Minotaur

Most are considered to be pretty crappy for their tier until you get to Leander.

Their "special" think in WoW is that they do not have HE shells, only AP, but that AP has good pen, but lower potential critical damage than most cruiser sized AP. And they carry smoke, which is mostly limited to DDs in WoWS.

:huh:  Neptune was a Leander class cruiser.  Why would it be ranked higher than a Town class?

And why don't the British have HE shells in WoWS?  Is it just a gimmick rule to make them different?  And NavWeaps doesn't even have a smoke shell listed for British cruiser guns.  It's loadout list has just one ship listed for the 6-inch guns: "HMS Belfast had an outfit of 1,384 CPC, 960 HE, 474 Practice and 44 Drill for a total of 2,862 projectiles."  For the Counties, it notes that "Outfits were mainly SAPC with 20 rounds of HE per gun."

I suppose it makes for conversation.

Quote from: Berkut on April 01, 2017, 06:02:10 PM
I believe the next planned line of ships will be French cruisers.

I am kind of amazed that they still don't have a British battleship line. That seems just silly to me.

French cruisers and destroyers can be quite interesting.  Algerie was probably the best of the Treaty Cruisers.  I'd be interested to see if they compensate for the phony trial speeds of the French (and Italians, for that matter).

I think the no HE is pretty much just a way to give them some different character.

By smoke I mean a smoke generator on the ship itself, not smoke shells.

The Neptune as written up in WoWS is a speculative design (I don't think it was ever actually built), I don't think it is meant to represent the ship Neptune itself.

Quote from: Berkut on April 01, 2017, 09:11:54 PM
I think the no HE is pretty much just a way to give them some different character.

By smoke I mean a smoke generator on the ship itself, not smoke shells.

The Neptune as written up in WoWS is a speculative design (I don't think it was ever actually built), I don't think it is meant to represent the ship Neptune itself.

Ah, yes, there was a late-war cruiser design that was going to be a Neptune class.  Curious that they should precede the Minotaur/Swiftsure class on that scale.

Re: smoke.  Got it.  The Germans were the real smokers, though.  Even Bismarck was heavily laden with smoke generation gear.

RN cruisers also get the repair party thing, which comes in pretty handy. A lot.

Quote from: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 08:57:59 PM
:huh:  Neptune was a Leander class cruiser.  Why would it be ranked higher than a Town class?

Pretty sure the Neptune in the game is a late-war prototype of a class that never got off the ground.

Quote from: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 09:48:56 PM
Ah, yes, there was a late-war cruiser design that was going to be a Neptune class.  Curious that they should precede the Minotaur/Swiftsure class on that scale.

That's because it's not the actual late-war Minotaur class but the post-war Design Z project, which would have lead to a newer Minotaur class.

Quote from: Malicious Intent on April 02, 2017, 05:36:56 AM

Quote from: grumbler on April 01, 2017, 09:48:56 PM
Ah, yes, there was a late-war cruiser design that was going to be a Neptune class.  Curious that they should precede the Minotaur/Swiftsure class on that scale.

That's because it's not the actual late-war Minotaur class but the post-war Design Z project, which would have lead to a newer Minotaur class.

Ummm okay.    I assume that the fantasy ships are to prepare customers for the launch of a reboot of World of Warcraft?  :P  Seems odd that the Brit tier 1 isn't close to being a cruiser (or even a destroyer) and tiers 9 and 10 are fanboi wanks, when the Brits had plenty of actual cruisers to choose from.

Are they doing this so that they can give the Nazi fanboi types their wankable ships as well?  Tier 9 and 10 are the "never built because not survivable" ships for the Brits.

A lot of "World of" content is made up of "what ifs", g. 

I think it's to cut down on the Berkuts of the world jamming up their forums with flame wars over actual turret traverse speeds and whatnot.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 02, 2017, 12:55:01 PM
A lot of "World of" content is made up of "what ifs", g. 

I think it's to cut down on the Berkuts of the world jamming up their forums with flame wars over actual turret traverse speeds and whatnot.

It just seems to me that, for the most part, you could easily create 10 tiers of most navies in, say, cruisers, by ending with the last "competitive" design (i.e. one that could be matched by all of the other fleets you are interested in) and then working back 10 stages until you get to around 1910, when warships started to become standardized.   Tier 1 in cruisers doesn't feature a single actual cruiser, and is mostly fantasy ships.

I suppose it is all fantasy anyways, so they can call any ship whatever they want and just rig the stats to make it competitive, but you'd think that an element of pride would want to make them at least fake some realism.

Edit:  Nevermind.  I just looked at the German battleships and saw that this is all just fantasy stuff.  I guess that sells.

Yeah, it's all arcade whacking material in the end.

Quote from: grumbler on April 02, 2017, 01:28:27 PM

Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 02, 2017, 12:55:01 PM
A lot of "World of" content is made up of "what ifs", g. 

I think it's to cut down on the Berkuts of the world jamming up their forums with flame wars over actual turret traverse speeds and whatnot.

It just seems to me that, for the most part, you could easily create 10 tiers of most navies in, say, cruisers, by ending with the last "competitive" design (i.e. one that could be matched by all of the other fleets you are interested in) and then working back 10 stages until you get to around 1910, when warships started to become standardized.   Tier 1 in cruisers doesn't feature a single actual cruiser, and is mostly fantasy ships.

I suppose it is all fantasy anyways, so they can call any ship whatever they want and just rig the stats to make it competitive, but you'd think that an element of pride would want to make them at least fake some realism.

Edit:  Nevermind.  I just looked at the German battleships and saw that this is all just fantasy stuff.  I guess that sells.

Well, for some of them I don't think you CAN come up with ten reasonable ships that work without getting into fantasy. Like the German battleships.

But for others, there are plenty of options, and I am kind of lost as to why they choose "fake" ships to model after rather than real ones. There are a zillion brit cruisers, right?

Plenty of American CVs,  and plenty of IJN battleships, so why do we have the Izumo and stuff like that?

WTF do you want though, they are Russians. Shrug.

It is all theme.

Quote from: grumbler on April 02, 2017, 12:46:29 PM
Seems odd that the Brit tier 1 isn't close to being a cruiser (or even a destroyer) and tiers 9 and 10 are fanboi wanks, when the Brits had plenty of actual cruisers to choose from.

None of the Tier 1 ships are actual cruisers;  they're just patrol ship-type vessels that are there for you to learn the basics in.

QuoteAre they doing this so that they can give the Nazi fanboi types their wankable ships as well?  Tier 9 and 10 are the "never built because not survivable" ships for the Brits.

More-or-less.  Keep in mind that the American Tier 10 cruiser is the Des Moines.  What would the non-fantasy equivalent be for any other navy?

Quote from: Berkut on April 02, 2017, 04:44:57 PM
Well, for some of them I don't think you CAN come up with ten reasonable ships that work without getting into fantasy. Like the German battleships.

Sure you can.  A couple of predreads, the five dreads, Scharnhorst, Bismarck, and a fully-kitted-out (esp radars) 1943 Tirpitz.

It's a lot easier just to create imaginary ships, though.  I can imagine it sells better to their target audience, as well.

Quote from: dps on April 02, 2017, 05:02:28 PM
More-or-less.  Keep in mind that the American Tier 10 cruiser is the Des Moines.  What would the non-fantasy equivalent be for any other navy?

Why would you use Des Moines if the only conceivable opponents are ships you just make up? Why not stop with Baltimore/PzEugen/Later Town/Algerie/Bolzano/Kirov?  Work backwards from there.

Quote from: Berkut on April 02, 2017, 04:44:57 PM
WTF do you want though, they are Russians. Shrug.

Pre-war Russian biplanes bringing down P-47s.  Is hilarious, no?

Quote from: grumbler on April 02, 2017, 05:49:19 PM

Quote from: Berkut on April 02, 2017, 04:44:57 PM
Well, for some of them I don't think you CAN come up with ten reasonable ships that work without getting into fantasy. Like the German battleships.

Sure you can.  A couple of predreads, the five dreads, Scharnhorst, Bismarck, and a fully-kitted-out (esp radars) 1943 Tirpitz.

But they have to work with the existing lines as well.

The US and Japanese BBs are already there, so how do you put a 1943 Tirpitz up against a Montana and Yamato at Tier X? Either you turn it into fantasy Tirpitz, or you just create fantasy Kurfurst. It is fantasy either way, because it isn't just a matter of coming up with ten BBs, you have to come up with ten that fit in with the other ten US BBs, and the ten IJN BBs.

Quote
It's a lot easier just to create imaginary ships, though.  I can imagine it sells better to their target audience, as well.

I doubt it is any easier, or sells better. Most people find the paper ships much less interesting than the real ones. Whats the fun in arguing about the relative merits of a ship that never even existed? Nobody gets as jazzed up about the Montana as much as the Yamato, for example.

I actually think this is why my favorite line in the game is the US Battleship line. They were all actual ships, or at least ships that were relatively plausible, designed, and intended to be built for the Montana.

Japanese destroyers are the Gnome Rouges Rogues of WoW.  NURF EM I SAY

Quote from: grumbler on April 02, 2017, 06:02:50 PM

Quote from: dps on April 02, 2017, 05:02:28 PM
More-or-less.  Keep in mind that the American Tier 10 cruiser is the Des Moines.  What would the non-fantasy equivalent be for any other navy?

Why would you use Des Moines if the only conceivable opponents are ships you just make up? Why not stop with Baltimore/PzEugen/Later Town/Algerie/Bolzano/Kirov?  Work backwards from there.

Other than the fact that I want to sail in the Des Moines (if I keep any interest in the game long enough to work my way up to it), and I suppose that others do too, no reason. 

Also, I think it's a bit disingenuous to label many of the ships in that game "fantasy" ships.  Most of them would better be labelled "hypothetical" IMO.  As best as I can tell, they all existed at least on paper, and construction was actually started on some of them. (I do agree that the top tier German BBs in the game are reasonably labelled "fantasy"--even though there were design studies for them, actually building them was a pipe dream).

On the general point, though, I'd be perfectly happy with battleship lines starting with pre-Dreadnoughts.

Quote from: dps on April 02, 2017, 07:02:10 PM
On the general point, though, I'd be perfectly happy with battleship lines starting with pre-Dreadnoughts.

But then we'd never be able to play with all those storied Soviet navy classes.  I mean, talk about full immersion into history.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 02, 2017, 07:20:18 PM

Quote from: dps on April 02, 2017, 07:02:10 PM
On the general point, though, I'd be perfectly happy with battleship lines starting with pre-Dreadnoughts.

But then we'd never be able to play with all those storied Soviet navy classes.  I mean, talk about full immersion into history.

I can't wait for the Soviet carrier line!

Quote from: Berkut on April 02, 2017, 06:55:06 PM
But they have to work with the existing lines as well.

The US and Japanese BBs are already there, so how do you put a 1943 Tirpitz up against a Montana and Yamato at Tier X?

Why would you want to?  Why does Yamato have to be in the game at all, if it cannot be matched by any warship ever built (not true, BTW, but let's just assume that it is)?  Alternatively, if you think that you have to have Yamato in the game, why not just make up stats for the guns and armor on, say, Richelieu, so that rich stands a chance?  Maybe make the guns shoot twice as fast, or something like that.  I've seen plenty of examples of them making up numbers for rates of fire or damage in order to be 'competitive" just in looking at the tier 1 cruisers.

And, if you are allowing fantasy ships, why not Super-Duper Yamato, or even Super-Super-Duper-Duper Yamato with 12x 21" guns and 21"/12" of side/deck armor?

Quote
Either you turn it into fantasy Tirpitz, or you just create fantasy Kurfurst. It is fantasy either way, because it isn't just a matter of coming up with ten BBs, you have to come up with ten that fit in with the other ten US BBs, and the ten IJN BBs.

My point is that you don't have to create fantasy anything.  Your point here is mine:  if you are not going to limit yourself to what was possible, why have anything that actually existed at all? 

QuoteI doubt it is any easier, or sells better. Most people find the paper ships much less interesting than the real ones. Whats the fun in arguing about the relative merits of a ship that never even existed? Nobody gets as jazzed up about the Montana as much as the Yamato, for example.

If the terms of the discussion are the terms of game merit, though, isn't the discussion kind of pointless?  Game battles and tactics don't seem to at all reflect what the ships were designed for.  The Iowas, for instance, were optimized for long-range gun duels, and they were designed with the speed to keep the range long.  Once the Mk 13 GFCS radar was fitted, it was lights out for the Yamato.  I suspect that, in the game, the Iowa stands no chance against Yamato.

No, Iowas stand as good a chance against the Yamato as any Tier IX has against a Tier X. It has range on the Yamato at least.

It is a team game though, you are generally not fighting alone, but if there was a 1-1 match between the two, the Yamato would win more often than not, skill being equal, certainly.

But then, the Montana will win more often than not against the IJN tier IX - that is the nature of the game.

I don't really understand your question about why the Yamato is in the game. It is a game about WW2ish naval surface combat - why would you NOT have the Yamato in the game? It is the end game IJN battleship. It matches up against the Montana, then end game US battleship.

I am not sure I understand your complaint here - the game is a game first, and not much of a simulation at all. It has the theme and "flavor" of naval combat, but isn't trying to be anything beyond that. It is a lot of fun, IMO.

I think it would be MORE fun if they tried harder to be more historically aligned, but I get that I am probably a small minority of their player base. You, as someone who really, really enjoys naval history, would likely NOT enjoy the game, because the liberties taken would drive you up the wall.

But given what it is, I think the choices they have made in regards to making it all fit together as a game are pretty reasonable. The Yamato doesn't have 12 21" guns because there is no reason to make such a thing, it would not fit into the game world. They have established what the "end game" super battleship should be, and it is something roughly equivalent to a IJN Yamato/US Montana and are balanced against each other.

Believe me, I totally understand that in real life, the Iowa's would likely eat a Yamato for lunch if the US were able to dictate the terms of the fight. Radar fire control along with the beginnings of ballistic computers trumps gun size, I am sure. Not to mention radically superior damage control, better training, superior ammunition, etc. etc.

Quote from: Berkut on April 03, 2017, 08:44:55 AM
I don't really understand your question about why the Yamato is in the game. It is a game about WW2ish naval surface combat - why would you NOT have the Yamato in the game? It is the end game IJN battleship. It matches up against the Montana, then end game US battleship.

I don't understand this answer; if WoW was about WW2-ish naval combat, it wouldn't have Montana, which wasn't a WW2-ish battleship (nor any battleship at all, ever).  If you are going to argue that Yamato must be there because every battleship class must be there, where is the Tennessee class?

It doesn't matter, though.  The game does what it does because the developers think that is what will sell.  It's kinda like the Japanese anime with the little girls dressed in battleship costumes:  it doesn't have to make sense to me to make money!

And you are entitled to enjoy it for what it is, not for what I think it should be.

I identify as a Atago class cruiser.

My preferred pronoun is "CA'.

Quote from: Ed Anger on April 03, 2017, 02:39:10 PM
I identify as a Atago class cruiser.

My preferred pronoun is "CA'.

What a fag.


(https://languish.org/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.zerochan.net%2FAtago.%2528Kantai.Collection%2529.full.1587582.jpg&hash=8358e7b724f6ae146dd8178dcd7c96f35b3d4c90)

Quote from: grumbler on April 03, 2017, 01:44:59 PM

Quote from: Berkut on April 03, 2017, 08:44:55 AM
I don't really understand your question about why the Yamato is in the game. It is a game about WW2ish naval surface combat - why would you NOT have the Yamato in the game? It is the end game IJN battleship. It matches up against the Montana, then end game US battleship.

I don't understand this answer

A failing on your part, not on Berkut's part nor on the part of the game's designers.

It's one thing not to agree with their design choices (I don't agree with a lot of them), but not understanding what Berkut posted seems to be being willfully obtuse to me.

Quote from: CountDeMoney on April 03, 2017, 05:17:44 PM

Quote from: Ed Anger on April 03, 2017, 02:39:10 PM
I identify as a Atago class cruiser.

My preferred pronoun is "CA'.

What a fag.

I'm hot!

Quote from: dps on April 03, 2017, 05:33:08 PM
A failing on your part, not on Berkut's part nor on the part of the game's designers.

It's one thing not to agree with their design choices (I don't agree with a lot of them), but not understanding what Berkut posted seems to be being willfully obtuse to me.

Your inability to understand MY arguments seems willfully obtuse, as well.  A failing, to reverse your argument, on your part.  Whatever.

Quote from: grumbler on April 03, 2017, 08:05:22 PM

Quote from: dps on April 03, 2017, 05:33:08 PM
A failing on your part, not on Berkut's part nor on the part of the game's designers.

It's one thing not to agree with their design choices (I don't agree with a lot of them), but not understanding what Berkut posted seems to be being willfully obtuse to me.

Your inability to understand MY arguments seems willfully obtuse, as well.  A failing, to reverse your argument, on your part.  Whatever.

Well, I suppose that would be the case, except that I do understand your arguments, and as I said, agree with some of them.

Quote from: dps on April 04, 2017, 07:12:49 AM
Well, I suppose that would be the case, except that I do understand your arguments, and as I said, agree with some of them.

Since i clearly explained my response, and you claim to have understood it but declared it "willfully obtuse," I'd say that you didn't understand it, despite it being clear and complete (though you, in your response, snipped away my explanation for some weird reason).  Maybe you are not being willfully obtuse, but merely deliberately rude?

Enough. If anyone wants to talk about WOWS, that would be awesome.

Not sure where I learned about this game, probably here somewhere? 

But rule the waves is pretty interesting and would probably be Grumbler approved:

http://yhst-12000246778232.stores.yahoo.net/ruwaddo.html


Not worth $34, though.

Quote from: Alcibiades on April 05, 2017, 02:26:04 PM
Not sure where I learned about this game, probably here somewhere? 

But rule the waves is pretty interesting and would probably be Grumbler approved:

http://yhst-12000246778232.stores.yahoo.net/ruwaddo.html


Not worth $34, though.

Not just grumbler approved - he gave us an AAR!

http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,13177.0.html

Quote from: Barrister on April 05, 2017, 02:30:45 PM

Quote from: Alcibiades on April 05, 2017, 02:26:04 PM
Not sure where I learned about this game, probably here somewhere? 

But rule the waves is pretty interesting and would probably be Grumbler approved:

http://yhst-12000246778232.stores.yahoo.net/ruwaddo.html


Not worth $34, though.

Not just grumbler approved - he gave us an AAR!

http://languish.org/forums/index.php/topic,13177.0.html

An AAR that's on my schedule to be finished off sometime soon, as well.

I've tried everything I could imagine to get grumbler to give this simulation a try.

If this doesn't work, nothing else will:

https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/common/born-2-b-kawaii-ld/

Pfft, Ed and I were way ahead of that one;  we've been running around in little sailor school uniforms, doing mildly bisexual-themed squeeing and mewing for months now.

"...this simulation..."  Now THAT's funny!   :P

:rolleyes:

QuoteYou have been suspended from sending chat messages until 10.04.2017 12:04. Reason: Ban by Complaints

:lol:

QuoteYou have been suspended from sending chat messages until 30.04.2017 20:37. Reason: Ban by Complaints

Shocked!

Of course, now that I actually have time to play, none of you assclowns* are ever in game.



*doesnt include Seedy as don't know his screen name.

Quote from: katmai on May 13, 2017, 08:35:35 PM
Of course, now that I actually have time to play, none of you assclowns* are ever in game.



*doesnt include Seedy as don't know his screen name.

JonBonetRamsay?

Quote from: katmai on May 13, 2017, 08:35:35 PM
Of course, now that I actually have time to play, none of you assclowns* are ever in game.



*doesnt include Seedy as don't know his screen name.

Oh, think I forgot to post it here, but my screen name there is DStokes_OHWV.

I'm MadBurgerMaker, of course.  I've been meaning to come back to check out the French cruisers.

Today's release finally has the long awaited British BB line.

Tier III: Bellerophon
Tier IV: Orion
Tier V: Iron Duke
Tier VI: Queen Elizabeth
Tier VII: King George V
Tier VIII: Monarch
Tier IX: Lion
Tier X: Conqueror

How does Monarch (a fantasy design, I imagine, since the last actual HMS Monarch was completed in 1911 and sunk in 1925) fit between KGV and Lion?  Lion is basically just a 16" version of the KGV, so I don't see much room between them.

Well, everything after the KGV is a "paper" ship, right? So I suppose they aren't to worried about it. I think when they design these they care a lot more about in tier balance and some kind of reasonable progression in capability from ship to ship than they do about historical accuracy.

VII: KGV is armed with 2x4, 1x2 356mm guns (that is a bizarre setup)
VIII: Monarch has 3x3 384mm guns
IX Lion has 3x3 419mm guns
Conqueror has a choice of 4x2 457mm (largest guns in the game outside the Yamato) or 3x4 412mm

Quote from: Berkut on August 30, 2017, 07:24:45 AM
Well, everything after the KGV is a "paper" ship, right? So I suppose they aren't to worried about it. I think when they design these they care a lot more about in tier balance and some kind of reasonable progression in capability from ship to ship than they do about historical accuracy.

VII: KGV is armed with 2x4, 1x2 356mm guns (that is a bizarre setup)
VIII: Monarch has 3x3 384mm guns
IX Lion has 3x3 419mm guns
Conqueror has a choice of 4x2 457mm (largest guns in the game outside the Yamato) or 3x4 412mm

The first two Lions were actually laid down, so they were more than paper ships.

The KGVs had the weird armament arrangement because, when ordered, the limit on gun size was 14," so the Brits decided that their 35,000 ton BB should have three quad 14" turrets.  During final design, they decided that they wanted to up-armor the engineering speces to match the magazines, so deleted two barrels from the highest turret as weight compensation.  That turned out to be a mistake, as the twin turret then had to be designed, and the class was delayed about 6 months by this.

Monarch in the game uses 15" guns that the Brits didn't have.  Their 14" gun had better ballistics and penetration than their potential 15" gun, so their 15" design was never updated from the WW1 configuration.  But I can understand why the game wanted to invent a design between the 14" gun ship and the 16" gun ship.

It is interesting that the superior KGV is a tier VII design and the inferior Bismarck is Tier VIII.  I guess fan service dictates that the Bismarck be artificially enhanced lest the fanboiz desert.  That also explains why they invented a 15" gunned British battleship - it was to give the Brits a fantasy BB equivalent to the fantasy Bismarck.

Meh, the Bismarck came out in the game over a year before the Brits. And it made sense at Tier VIII, that is kind of the "sweet spot" for most premium ships (there is only one Tier IX premium, and it is kind of "special"). Bismarck is not a premium, but the Tirpitz is, and was released long before the German line, so it kind of established where that class would sit in the tree.

I think Biz is where it is at because it just made sense there, and they probably didn't even think one way or the other about whether KGV would "line up" with the Bismarck. Which is why it was ridiculous to put out the German BB line before the British line to begin with - now THAT was almost certainly a nod towards the Reich fanbois.

The Brits invented the damn battleship. They should have been the third line released, and the first line designed. The other lines should have been mostly built around them, rather than the other way around.

But WTH, its a game.

grumbler, you should try it. Its free to play, and a lot of fun. It is a naval *themed* GAME though, not a simulation. I like it compared to the others in the genre mainly because it has a much more considered pace in the gameplay, which I enjoy.

Quote from: Berkut on August 30, 2017, 08:17:23 AM
Meh, the Bismarck came out in the game over a year before the Brits. And it made sense at Tier VIII, that is kind of the "sweet spot" for most premium ships (there is only one Tier IX premium, and it is kind of "special"). Bismarck is not a premium, but the Tirpitz is, and was released long before the German line, so it kind of established where that class would sit in the tree.

I think Biz is where it is at because it just made sense there, and they probably didn't even think one way or the other about whether KGV would "line up" with the Bismarck. Which is why it was ridiculous to put out the German BB line before the British line to begin with - now THAT was almost certainly a nod towards the Reich fanbois.

The Brits invented the damn battleship. They should have been the third line released, and the first line designed. The other lines should have been mostly built around them, rather than the other way around.

But WTH, its a game.

grumbler, you should try it. Its free to play, and a lot of fun. It is a naval *themed* GAME though, not a simulation. I like it compared to the others in the genre mainly because it has a much more considered pace in the gameplay, which I enjoy.

You definitely have to either take the approach of "it's just a game" or else not know much about actual naval warfare to enjoy it, though.  Personally, I wish it was a bit more of a simulation;  I can live with it, but there are things I don't like about it that irritate me, like how you want other ships to be able to fire full broadsides at you while you can only respond with your fore or aft guns. 

I think the things in the game that irritate me would drive grumbler nuts.

It is a naval themed game in that it has objects that resemble ships and they do things that resemble the things you might imagine ships to do, but that is about the extent of the historical relevance.

That being said, I think it is a lot of fun, and becoming good at it an interesting challenge.

The Frog T3 cruiser seems nice....